July 21, 2023 • 49 mins
Have you ever wondered about the profound impact a simple smile can have on someone's life? Join us on a fascinating journey with Australian author, podcast host, and human rights lawyer, Ezzie Spencer. We start with understanding how she's crafted her existence around her purpose, which has now become her "normal". Ezzie's life has been a rollercoaster of experiences, from her roots in Australia to her life in New York and Los Angeles, and she has a plethora of insights to share.
A pivotal moment in Ezzie's life was her spiritual awakening in 2011. Our conversation delves into the internal struggle she experienced while trying to make sense of her new reality and the path that led to her work with the moon. We also discuss the significance of mentors and teachers in life, and how they can help us navigate our way towards a sense of inner peace. Ezzie shares her journey from working within established systems to focusing on the individual, aided by the moon cycle.
Ezzie doesn't shy away from discussing the more personal aspects of her journey, including her experiences with self-love and self-worth. She shares the invaluable lessons she learned from a teacher about compassion and forgiveness, which she believes are essential for cultivating self-love. She also talks about an unconscious vow she made to stay single and how she used meditation to uncover and overcome this blockage in her life. Ezzie highlights the importance of self-compassion, self-forgiveness, and gratitude in managing tough emotions, which are steps towards cultivating a stronger sense of self-love. This episode promises to leave you with profound insights about life, purpose, and the power of self-love.
Work with Ezzie:
https://www.ezziespencer.com/
IG @ezziespencer
Re.love Podcast
Buy your copy of Elena's book "Grieve Outside the Box"
Follow on IG @elenabox
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Ode to Joy podcast, a show where we
talk about joy how do wecultivate it, how do we maintain
it and what are the things thatget in the way.
I'm your host, shamanicDeathdula, and comedian Alana
Box, bringing you another partof our season two on the show,
talking all about our inner muse, or inner genius.
(00:22):
Today we are talking with EZSpencer.
Hello everybody, and welcomeback to the Ode to Joy podcast.
We are coming to you withanother episode of our season
two on the podcast, which is allabout the muse, and today we
(00:43):
are bringing on my dear friend,ez Spencer.
Welcome, ez.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
So fun to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
It's such a juicy conversation that I'm so excited
to get into with you today.
So just a little bit of abackground about EZ.
I mean, there's so much I wantto share, but just a background
for our listener, who perhapshas just meeting you now for the
first time.
Ez is originally from Australia, which automatically gives you
a bunch of really cool points.
(01:14):
By the way, Straight off thebat, I'm a big fan of
Australians.
Remind me where in Australiaare you from?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I've lived all over, so I'm from Sydney, canberra,
melbourne, so Melbourne's themost home-like feeling part of
Australia right now.
But I've been out of Australiafor a while.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
And she's also lived in New York and currently you're
in LA, but you're maybe goingback to Melbourne and maybe
coming back to New York.
She's an international chick.
Okay, okay, ladies andgentlemen, so originally
Australian, automatic, very coolpoints.
She is an author.
She's an author of the bookcalled Lunar Abundance, which I
believe you were writing when wefirst met, when we were in
(01:54):
Holly.
Is that right, yeah?
2016.
2016.
She's also the host of apodcast called ReLove, and this
is also something that I'm superexcited to talk to you about,
about just sort of like yourpath of really how you've come
into your work, but as youstarted out as a human rights
lawyer, so she is a smart chick,my friend.
(02:16):
She has a PhD.
Is it a PhD in therapeuticjurisprudence?
Is that right, yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
It's a mouthful, but I thought I was going to be a
mental health law professor.
That was where I was trackingbefore everything changed.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh my gosh, I mean that's even fascinating in and
of itself.
But then you've also worked.
So you were working as a lawyerspecifically with women who had
been subjected to abuse, isthat right?
Yeah, yeah, I mean so manyfascinating avenues that you've
been down, that you're goingdown and I'm just so excited to
(02:52):
dive into it with you today.
But I had to before we, likebefore we really really dive in.
I had to just say it.
I love telling my guests howI've met my, how I have met, or
when I tell my listeners how Ihave met my guests.
So Ezi and I met when I wasliving in Bali.
She was working on her book.
I had gone there, you know,basically like three months
(03:12):
after my father had passed.
I was in this really weird rawmoment where it was actually the
best place for me to be was inUbud, which was really a place
for healing, and I met Ezi andshe was just this amazing woman.
I don't even remember where hemet, but it might have been an
ecstatic dance, something likethis, the Sunday ecstatic dance
(03:33):
in Ubud and she told me she wasworking on her book and I was
really inspired, and so I toldyou when we reconnected recently
at an event in New York thatyou are one of the biggest, you
know, sort of inspirations andmy personal muse as someone who
I look up to that.
When I saw you were writing abook it just sort of dawned on
me as I was ready.
(03:54):
You know, I started writing itwhen I was in Bali and then I
was like, well, as he can do it,like I can do it, why not?
And yeah, so you're a biginspiration to me, ezi.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I love that story so much.
It blew my mind when you toldme that, because we just have no
idea the impact that we have onother people.
Like you know the positiveimpact that we have on other
people when we're simply justliving our purpose.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So amazing, Thank you for sharing that with me.
Yeah, huge, huge, and it'sreally true.
I mean you could, you couldtouch somebody's life just by
walking down the street andsmiling at them at like the most
perfect moment, just when theyneed it, and you really never
know.
So that's like a little, alittle gem I've been carrying
with me.
So, speaking of living in yourpurpose, we're getting to the
topic of the day, which is allabout the muse, our inner genius
(04:40):
, our inner daemon, which I justlove.
As young puts, it is our innerdaemon and and it's all about
living your purpose.
So I'm sort of curious for youwhen we bring to mind the idea
of living your purpose, you know, walking from this space of
embodying and bringing out yourinner muse, like what comes to
(05:02):
mind.
What does it feel like in yourbody when you, when you think of
this sort of concept of theinner muse?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, I mean it feels very alive.
I have to say I'm very blessed,lucky and grateful to say it
also feels like quite normal Nowfor me, because of the
decisions that I've made, whichhave been difficult decisions
over the years.
At first it felt incrediblycounterintuitive to live from
this place, but now, happily, Ihave designed a life where this
is just my normal, this is myset point, which is absolutely,
(05:32):
you know, an incredibleprivilege.
And so, yeah, I feel alive.
I feel just truly, having thisconversation, like my palms are
lit up, I've got tingles allthrough my body.
I feel really connected, youknow, with my heart, with my
womb.
You know it feels reallydelicious and embodied, but it
feels like there's a lot oflevity, a lot of relaxation, a
lot of joy.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yes, yes, yes.
I mean that's what we all want.
Right Is is to be living everyday as if you know we're really
walking from this place of powerand allowing our gifts to come
out.
So I want to take it back.
Let's take it back.
Take it back to where we allbegan.
So you were a lawyer and thenwas there like a specific.
(06:14):
So here's the question.
I guess I have multiplequestions like when you went
into that and, as you said, youhad a certain idea of like where
it would go.
When you went into that, like,was there a certain moment?
How do I say, when you wentinto it, did you feel like, okay
, this is 100%, this is myinterview, like this is the
thing I need to follow, or wasit something that you sort of
like had this idea of?
Like this is who I should be?
Like, where was your internalmuse guiding you in that
(06:37):
direction when you went intothat kind of?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question and I think
there's so many layers to it.
It just felt very natural to goto law school, and I would say
that when I discovered domesticviolence and sexual assault
which is the area of the lawthat I specialized in that felt
incredibly alive, I feltincredibly passionate about that
and I threw myself into thatwork.
(07:02):
So, yes, to answer yourquestion, full inner muse
activation, so much so that Iwent on to do the PhD
therapeutic jurisprudence forwomen who've been subjected to
sexual assault, and the contextof interpersonal violence and
relationships.
So, basically, toxicrelationships and therapeutic
jurisprudence it's all about thelaw as healing.
So little did I know, though,when I started my PhD on the law
(07:23):
as healing.
It was going to be a catalystfor a completely different
career, which was actually morefocused on the healing, but yes,
I do feel like I was, for manyyears, really living my purpose
in the law.
It was a necessary lily pad, ifyou will, to then open up into
what it is.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I spent the last decade doing Isn't that so
interesting that's why I lovehaving these conversations is to
talk about how one thing led toanother.
And when you first embarked onyour career, how would you have
known that this is where itwould have led?
I mean, it's really fascinating, wow, okay.
So was there like when did youknow that this was where you
(08:06):
wanted to kind of go fromworking in law into diving more
into the healing aspect of it?
Was there a specific moment?
Was there something like wasthere an aha moment, or did it
slowly develop?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I mean, oh look, that was a dramatic moment.
The 15th of March 2011 was theday that my life changed, so
there was a moment Wow.
Having said that, I also dothink it's a bothant.
I think it was evolvingunderneath the surface for many
years, but then, when it crackedopen, it cracked open and it
was like there's my life beforethe 15th of March 2011.
(08:47):
That was my life since thatpoint Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Wow, I have full body chills.
Can you take us into this day?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah for sure.
So you know, on the there'sactually a couple of levels of
telling the story, because onone level of telling the story,
what happened on the 15th ofMarch is that I had a home
invasion, which is neverpleasant, like no one wants.
A home invasion Probably is notgoing to change the course of
your life, unless what happenedthe night before.
(09:14):
So I had been very deep in ameditation practice for a number
of years.
I've been working with the mooncycle.
I've been really connectingwith my femininity, with my
intuition.
I was meditating for severalhours a day in the lead up to
this.
But what happened the nightbefore the home invasion is that
, lying in bed, fully awake, Ihad a full vision of what was
going to happen the next day,and so it wasn't a dream.
(09:36):
I was awake, but I saw what wasgoing to happen the next day
and so so much so I took stepsthe following day in order to
avoid it.
But you know, of course ithappened and when it rolled out
it was happening in slow motionbecause I was literally just
seeing the vision I had thenight before.
So obviously no one wants ahome invasion Like that.
Sucked, that bit, sucked.
No-transcript.
(09:57):
The piece that really shook meto my core was the fact that
reality was not the way that, asa lawyer, I had been trained to
understand that reality was.
So I have been trained to seethat time is linear, like things
happen in front of your eyes.
When they happen, they areobservable.
There are facts, like I wasdeeply in not just the law but
(10:20):
also in academia I was doing myPhD at the time and so it was
like an I mean, ontological kindof like shock collapse on me at
that point in time.
It took me about six months tolike fully calibrate inside of
it because, effectively, whathad happened is that, like the
time space continuum broke forme and from there I was blown
(10:43):
wide open.
Like my circuits were justcompletely and absolutely.
Like I could see things inpeople, I could see energy, I
had visions.
It activated all of these likemagical powers, I suppose.
But again, like this is 2011.
So you don't have theexperience now where you go onto
the internet or you go onInstagram.
(11:04):
Instagram wasn't even really athing in 2011, you know.
So people were sharing aboutmagic, at least not in my world,
in my sphere, and so it wasextremely disorienting for me
and it led to a lot of internalstruggle.
You know which we can get to interms of the obstacles that I
encountered, because I didn'treally know how to make sense of
(11:25):
what started on that day andwhat just continued to happen in
terms of the way that I couldjust see things in people and
see things in myself and seethings in life that I couldn't
see before that day.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
So much to unpack there.
Oh, my god, I mean howfascinating I mean this
experience that you had.
I mean it's so interesting thatyou can really take it back to
this very specific day.
I definitely relate into thatin that sense of mine.
I call it when we like pop thetop off, and so I always say
like, yeah, back when my top wastotally popped off.
(12:03):
You know, you know I couldnarrow it down to like a
specific day, but really it isthis kind of like unfolding of
everything opening up after that.
That then you have to makesense of Because it's a very
fine line, as you say, when youbreak that time space continuum
where you go okay, so reality isnot reality in the way that
I've always understood realityto behave the laws, literally
(12:23):
the laws of how things aresupposed to go, how matter is
formed, how matter is heldtogether, how we interact with
people, how we see people, howwe are perceived, and so when
you take all of those laws awayand you don't necessarily have
someone who can kind of holdyour hand through it and be like
listen, you're not crazy,sweetheart, like these, the
(12:43):
gifts are just coming through,and that it can be very
terrifying, I mean, I'll say formyself, but I'm also curious,
like because, as you said, whenthis all happened for you you
know, I mean mine when I, when Ihad my top popped off, it was
2012.
So a year later and it was, youknow, it was harder to find like
I remember having to dig up oldsort of like Stanislaw Graf
(13:07):
articles or, you know, youtubevideos, like anything, and I
found out about, like, what wecall spiritual emergence or a
spiritual crisis, or you couldsay awakening, or you know, I
had to really do my own researchand I would, you know, take out
these books from the libraryjust to kind of put together the
clues, because I knew that whatwas coming through was
(13:27):
certainly something that was agift.
If only I could just keep thetop on enough to make sense of
it all.
So I'm curious to hear for you,like, how was that process for
you?
And then, is that what then ledyou?
Like, at what point, then, didit lead you into your work with
the moon, your work in birthingyour book?
Like, at what point did youwere you able to put it together
(13:50):
and be like, okay, cool, like?
These are the parts of how Ican synthesize this and begin to
serve it up as a service, likeas a gift to the world.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, that's a great question, you know.
I mean, the experience washorrible for me and I totally
relate to what it is that youjust shared, when you had your
experience in 2012, where you'relike looking for resources to
try to make sense of it, becauseit was horrible, it was not
enjoyable for me, and part ofthat was because I was fighting
it mentally, yeah, and part ofthat struggle was that, you know
(14:22):
, there was my my, my, my, mylogical, rational brain that was
finding myself and what wasactually a true experience that
I was having.
So the internal discord wasactually the real piece of
discomfort for about, well, I'mgoing to say six months, you
know, for it took me about sixmonths to recalibrate, but I'll
be totally honest, like itprobably took me many, many,
(14:44):
many, many, many years to find asense of internal peace and
coherence with that internaldiscord.
I feel like that has actuallybeen the story from 2011 through
to 2023, quite honestly.
But having said that, therewere, of course, many other
(15:05):
steps along the way, and so oneof it is one of those steps, of
course is that I had beenconnected with the moon ever
since I was a little girl.
I had been working with themoon in my personal practice
already prior to March 2011.
I'd already been talking aboutit and sharing about it in terms
of what I was learning aboutworking with the moon cycle,
connecting with my own rhythms,cycles, my own sense of myself
(15:27):
and my femininity, my feeling,and so, after the 15th of March
2011, I just started talkingabout it more and I would say
what happened very organicallyis that I became magnetic, like
people just started to come tome to ask how can I work with
you?
Now I was still doing my PhD,you know, my PhD in 2013.
So it's like I graduated and soforth.
(15:49):
So for years I was thinking Iwould continue along that career
track.
I still really wanted to belong, and that's actually a really
important piece because I feellike that sense of wanting to
belong in the establishment, youknow, with people who I felt
were clever and important, and Ialso don't want to put too fine
(16:09):
a point on that piece becausethe rest of it's also true like
people who are doing reallyimportant work in the world, and
I'm still a huge proponent ofstructural change.
Now I work more with the innerrealms and the individual, but
you know, I don't want todiminish, you know, the work
that is done by incrediblyintelligent people, but I was, I
suppose, myself.
It wasn't really an easy fitfor me in that world anymore,
(16:30):
but the piece for me that led tothat internal discomfort, that
discord, was that I continue totry to fit in.
I continue to try to belongwhen I was really in myself,
like opening up to the nextstage of my own evolution.
So, anyway, bringing it back,so I spoke about the Moon Cycle
by the time I finished my PhD in2013.
I had a thriving business, aglobal coaching business so this
(16:52):
is again in the early days ofInstagram and Facebook, so I was
just sharing on these socialmedia platforms.
I had a blog.
I was sharing, I had an onlineprogram and I had hundreds and
hundreds of clients who cameinto a group program, into one
on one work with me.
And this is really aboutworking with the Moon Cycle to
find joy and peace and purpose.
I developed a practical lunarabundance which, of course, led
(17:13):
to the book which I was writingin 2016, which was published,
you know, in Australia 2017 andNew York in 2018.
And then that's what had mecome to the US in 2018.
But you know, I don't know.
I mean it was really.
There were so many parts ofthis journey, but it was really
(17:33):
when I met an amazing I mean Iwant to say teacher, coach,
facilitator, guide, shaman,witch doctor I mean he could
easily have all of those titlesand you know it still wouldn't
encompass his spirit.
But I met the right person forme to work with, to really break
through to, to find that senseof internal peace and coherence.
(17:56):
And that's been a huge part ofthe journey of making peace with
what happened but also where Iam now, but also where it is
that I am going in the future.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I think that's a really important piece,
especially when we talk aboutthe music is the role of the
mentor and the teacher, and Ithink it's also interesting how,
at different points in ourlives, there's different roles
of mentors and teachers thatcome in and thank goodness we
find the ones at the right.
What they say, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
When the student is ready.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
The teacher comes.
So I imagine that must havebeen really helpful for you at
that time to sort of make senseof what you were going through.
And then also to how do I sayit?
Like I said, it's like we allneed that.
I think we need a hand to holdwhen we're going through these
experiences because, especiallyif we're operating in, I want to
say, like the normal world, thereal world, where we have our
(18:54):
careers, we have the ways thatwe interact, and going through
an experience like this, like Isaid, it breaks all of the rules
and so you have to kind ofrelearn literally how to be a
quote unquote normal human inevery day life.
Because it sort of feels likeyou're, like is my skin suit on
right?
Like, am I okay?
It's awkward man, it's reallyawkward.
(19:15):
So I'd love to hear morespecifically about, like, what
types of tools did this teacherhelp you hone for yourself?
Like, what were those sort ofgifts that you were given by
this teacher?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, I mean, it's such a good question and it's
like I will distill it down toand this may sound cliched, but
you know I will distill it downto love.
You know this teacher taught mecompassion and forgiveness and
you know there's so much thatsits underneath those terms.
But I feel like you know, inpart remembering that my first
(19:53):
career was around working withwomen who had been in abusive
relationships, and so there wasa lot of work that I needed to
do inside of myself, you know,inside of you know many, many
lifetimes, if you will todisentangle disempowerment
dynamics.
And so I would say that thegreatest gift you know that I
had from this teacher wasactually a relational one, in
(20:15):
the sense of like, piece bypiece, like going through and
passing out and untangling allof my own.
You know old stories anddistortions about people from
the past doing deep work aroundfamily and releasing family.
You know present and departedfamily, and I feel like really
coming to that beautiful placeof compassion and forgiveness
(20:37):
then opened, you know, me up tothen be able to create healthy
love, which is where I went intowith real love.
That's what I did at Delina.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
What a perfect segue.
Tell us more, tell me more,tell me more.
It's very cool, because that'sthe thing too, that's the name
of the game here is like reallylearning how to lean into these
places, where the next kind ofiteration of our work comes out,
and I love that you followedthat.
So can you tell us a bit about,about real love?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, I mean it's.
Yeah.
I feel like it's reallyinteresting because if Lunar
Abundance was about selfknowledge and personal power in
agency, if that was the reallesson there, then I'd say the
real lesson in real love isabout self worth.
So understanding not just thatyou are deserving of love
(21:30):
because of course we all are, wehave intrinsic value, because
we exist, like we are allloveable, we all are worthy of
love but really deeply knowingit, like on a cellular level,
like actually feeling it in yourbody that you are worthy of
love, rather than a great firststep, which is the positive self
talk and the affirmations likehuge fan of that, and going from
(21:50):
that mental level, thatintellectual understanding, into
the full open knowing of thatis really what allows you to be
open and available for love,because you have that sense of
self love and wholeness insideof yourself first and foremost,
which then means that you canreceive that love from someone
else you know and you canco-create healthy partnership,
(22:12):
and so that's really the coremedicine, if you will, inside of
real love.
It's like taking these ideas ofself love and deserving us out
of our mind, like no longertaking it from the neck up, but
really having us live andbreathe and know that and then
navigate the world, the world oflove and dating and
relationships, yes, but also theworld, large, from that place,
(22:36):
of self love, self worth andwholeness.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
And your work has been actually very helpful for
me and just following you, youshare so many beautiful tips and
resources on your Instagramwhich we will link in the show
notes to your listener.
But I think it really comesback down to, as you said, like
owning that self love on acellular level, so that when I'm
walking through the streets itdoesn't matter who is in my life
(23:01):
, who's out of my life.
It's that forgiveness piecewhich I also want to hear so
much about too, but it's like Ican own and love myself, every
single part of myself, thebeautiful, glamorous version of
me, and the version of me thatyou know is curled up on the
couch in a black hoodie, eatingcheese doodles.
You know we love her too.
We love all versions of mebecause she that me, is worthy
(23:25):
of love on all levels.
And that's like a big piece thatI think I took with me is also
just like honing that sense ofself, the worth, but then also
just being like girl, likeyou're awesome and we're good on
our own and like we can have agreat time on our own, and then
from that space being able tofind love, from that sort of
(23:46):
like filled up cup space and Ireally took a lot of that and
learned a lot of that from you.
Something just keeps coming tome and because I do really want
to take it into this nextchapter of where your work is
moving, but I really just it'snot even a fully formed question
, but I love talking aboutforgiveness and I'd love to hear
(24:08):
your thoughts on howforgiveness plays in to this
work with real love, of how youcan, even if you're not in
relationship, or maybespecifically, if you're not in
relationship, how can we workwith forgiveness to then be
ready, perhaps, to receive loveon?
the other end of it.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, it's such a it's such a great question.
I'll tell you what thebreakthrough was for me on this
because, like I shared, you know, my, my teacher, my guide,
taught me compassion andforgiveness, but I feel like the
piece which really activatedand opened inside of myself was
self-compassion andself-forgiveness first, and so
(24:54):
you know the I mean, and it'sit's an interesting thing
because this is where I end upgoing with my work after this.
But I found it through reallove.
It was born through real love,which is that I came to a place
where a relationship which hadalways alluded me like healthy
relationship had been one of myown personal pain points.
That's why I devoted myself, Ithink professionally, you know
(25:15):
to relationship and torelationship dynamics, for you
know what has actually been acouple of decades, you know an
amazing relationship now, but ithad definitely alluded me.
And then it came very close tome when I was working, you know,
with this teacher, and onething that really hit me was
just how awful I felt when Icame close to what it is that I
(25:38):
said that I wanted, and again,that made no sense to my
conscious mind, because I'vebeen saying I was craving that
sense of self-full partnership,like that was what I was so
actively putting out into theuniverse and working towards.
And then I came so close to itthat it touched me and that was
where I absolutely fell apart,to the point where I can
(25:59):
remember, like one day, likelying on the grass, like feeling
like this might be you know theend because I felt so awful,
like it was the only time I feltso angry at the teacher like
you know, he's led me down thisgarden path like everything just
felt awful.
And then I said to myself, likewhat is going on?
Like actually what's going on?
This makes no sense, because Iam closer to what it is that I
(26:21):
said that I wanted than I everhave been, ever before.
And that was where I discoveredthe unconscious vows and the
splinters which we'll get to,you know.
But that was where I reallyneeded to go a layer deeper
inside of myself on thecompassion and the forgiveness
piece, like to bring it back toyour question and that was where
I realized the missing piece ofthe jigsaw for me was that I
was not feeling compassion andforgiveness for myself.
(26:43):
I was feeling it for all ofthese other people, which was
beautiful, but I wasn'tdirecting it inwards inside of
myself, and that was actually mybreakthrough, like that was my
medicine is to stop beatingmyself up for decisions that
I've made in the past,relationships that I had got
into where I wasn't treated as Iknew I deserved to be treated,
(27:04):
relationships that I didn'tbelieve, when I knew I should
have left.
There was so muchself-recrimination and
self-flagellating, you know,literally whipping myself still,
so much anger directed inwards,so much guilt and shame, and it
was the balm of self-compassion, self-forgiveness and I'd add
into that gratitude.
You know this is the coreformula which I now work with
(27:26):
the unconscious vows, but thisis the core piece
self-compassion,self-forgiveness and gratitude
for all the things that I'vedone right and really deeply
again on a cellular level,anchoring into that, knowing
that I hadn't done anythingwrong, like it wasn't my fault
that I'd made decisions that Ihad made because of imprinting
that I had had or tools that Ihadn't been taught, which, of
(27:50):
course, you know, as an adult Iwas able to acquire and learn
myself, you know.
So, in terms of the forgivenesspiece, self-forgiveness was
like the point where absolutelyeverything blasted open for me
in terms of self-love, of course, and in terms of, like, actual
romantic relationship, yes, butjust in terms of self-love.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So much soul food just in everything that you've
shared, and I see myself comingback and listening to this again
because there's just so much totake that from that.
Thank you, Wow, Mm-hmm.
And so you talk about usingyour specific pain point to
follow where you bring your workout, which I feel like is also
(28:32):
a big theme in, like, let'sbring out the internal muse is
like what hurts.
And I remember when I firststarted doing comedy, somebody
said to me you have to talkabout your pain, and I was like
nobody wants to hear that.
I was like no, that's not asgross.
They're like no, you have totalk about it.
And I think following our painpoints I think can be one of the
(28:53):
biggest, I think, catalysts ofhow we bring out our inner muse.
So I'm interested to hear, then, from this work if you could
bring us into this next stage ofyour work, the unconscious
boughs.
Yeah, it's so good, I love it.
(29:15):
I mean because it's so amazingto see how you've just allowed
yourself to follow.
Okay, so I started here andthen this happened, and then
it's like I always talk aboutgoing downriver, just putting
yourself in the stream andallowing yourself to float
downriver.
So it feels very organic in theway that you've spoken about
how this new, you know, chapterof your work is coming out.
So, yes, can you give us anidea of where we go from here
(29:37):
down the river into unconsciousbound?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah for sure, what I found, like after that day,
when I was like I am in thedepths of despair and you know
I'm laughing now only like witha huge amount of, like you know,
sweetness for that moment whereI guess I feel like I'd hit I
just you know what, you know,I'd hit that, that darkest
before the dawn moment.
And sometimes we think thatwhen we hit that moment, oh my
(30:02):
gosh, we're way back at thebeginning, when in fact we might
be even further back than wewere before we began, which is
how I felt on that day.
But the trick is, of course,we're just like one step away
from the ultimate you knowdestination, for whatever that
particular you know mission isall about.
And so for me, from there, youknow, I went back into a deep
(30:24):
meditation, actually, you know,and as in, like, I walked back
to my home and I sat in the hottub that I happened to have at
that particular time and Imeditated and you know what I
discovered was two things.
One is that I found I actuallyhad an unconscious vow, which
was a conscious decision that Ihad made, to stay single in
(30:45):
order to not feel like what itwas, that I was feeling that
sense of despair, right Like,and that was the splinter, which
I'll get to in a moment.
That's the second thing.
But I realized I had anunconscious vow.
So I had made at one point adecision to just stay single,
even though I was now sayingconsciously that I wanted to be
in relationship.
I can say that for years, butunconsciously, because I made a
(31:07):
decision that I put it in myunconscious.
No, no, no, as a bit of aworkaround, it's actually much
better to be on your own.
Okay, so that was the firstthing.
And so bringing thatunconscious vow up to the
surface is what I did in themeditation in the hot tub after
that experience.
Oh, okay, great, I can see.
Now you know what is actuallygoing on.
And then, by definition, onceyou bring something from the
(31:27):
unconscious into the conscious,it's no longer unconscious.
So it's then conscious and youcan decide whether or not you
want to work with it.
So I was like no, I don't wantto work with that anymore.
I want to undo that vow.
Right, I actually want to beopen and available for love.
That's the first piece.
The second piece then is well,what's the vow really protecting
against?
And you're never going to makea decision like that, unless you
(31:49):
are to your point in pain, likeyou're going to make a decision
like that to say, single in mycase.
You know you can haveunconscious vows in any area.
You know that's what I'm movinginto now.
It's just the university of it,but you're only ever going to
make a decision to protectyourself if there's something to
protect against.
So what's that?
You know?
And here is where we find thesplinters.
(32:09):
And now the splinters are likesplinters in the soul.
This is like what I see when Iwork with people.
I see three channels.
I see the power channel, thelove channel and the peace
channel, and I can see wherepeople are splintered.
And when I say I see it, I seeit with my eyes, you know, which
have been blasted open.
I've learned how to work withit in a much more targeted way
than I did back in 2011.
(32:31):
But I can see where people aresplintered, meaning when they've
had difficult experiences,either in this lifetime or
predating this lifetime.
And usually, by the way, it ispredating this lifetime, which
is why it is so confusing whenwe discover like these
impediments or these disruptions, I suppose, to the flow, like
why is love not flowing?
Was my question for inquiry formyself.
(32:51):
And then, in discovering thatsplinter for myself, this love
splinter, then turning thatcompassion, forgiveness back to
myself, so really practicingself compassion, self
forgiveness on a deep felt level.
And then gratitude is a way tomagnetize the splinter out.
And I just found this, likethrough trial and error and
(33:11):
working with these tools insideof myself, once I took it out it
was like it was gone and for methe splinter was actually
splintering my sense of selfworth.
I didn't feel like I was worthyof receiving love.
I just didn't feel that itwasn't anything that was me.
In fact, once we take a splinterout, once we take the vow out
or once you undo the vow becausethe vow is something, an
(33:32):
internal thing that we've donethe splinter is not internal.
The splinter is something thathas happened to us or to our
ancestors or to our soul and apast life, if your belief system
extends to that.
Once we take that out, we justreturn to our true state, and
our true state is always goingto be one of personal power,
self love, wholeness and innerpeace, like that's just what our
true state is.
And so coming back to that truestate simply is just going to
(33:56):
allow the energy to flow andit's simply going to restore
what is already true, which isthat a deep knowing that we are,
for example, worthy of love.
Or, for example, if the splinterand vow is in the power channel
, for example, if there's somesort of impediment to purpose or
prosperity, that we arepowerful beings, we are creators
.
And in the peace channel, whenthere's going to be some sort of
(34:16):
disturbance to a sense ofinternal coherence, it's going
to ultimately result in thatsense of inner balance and
harmony.
That's ultimately what happens.
We have all of those threechannels open, it's going to be
coherent, and so that's what theunconscious vow and the
splinter work is.
It was born from the real loveexperience and I did it for
years with my real love clients,like just in the area of love.
(34:39):
And then they startedgraduating and getting into
relationships and like beingopen in their true state of love
and being like now can we do?
Like money, can we do moneysolutions, can we do these?
And I was like, well, okay,we'll give it a go.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
You know why not, why not?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
And I really have found something which, at least
in my experience today, has beenpretty universal in terms of
meeting anybody you know, of anygender, of any challenge that
they feel stuck or resistant.
It's obviously like it is nottherapy I'm not like treating
trauma, of course not Like thisis a process to really open up
into greater expansion andgrowth, like it's for seasoned
(35:14):
spiritual seekers who have trieda lot of different things and
haven't been able to get to theroot of what is going on, but
who are, you know, have aninternal architecture that
supports, like a deepexploration and a really ready
date to drop in and have anembodied experience of self
compassion, self forgiveness andgratitude Cause that's the
three part formula thatmagnetizes out these impediments
(35:35):
that are not ours and returnsus to our true state of flow.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
My goodness, eze, I am so happy that you are in my
life, that I know you.
I have blown away how freakinggorgeous.
And here's the thing I loveknowing you now and hearing this
now, because it's such a treatto hear this coming from you at
(36:01):
this time when you've reallyhoned your skills Like you've
really I love that you spokeabout how, in the beginning, you
could see all of these thingswithin people.
But when the gifts first turnon I was just talking about this
with a friend the other dayit's like when the gifts first
turn on, it's like a faucet orlike a radio station tuned to
literally like every singlestation.
So it takes time for you know,each of us who've gone through
(36:24):
this to sort of fine tune it,literally be able to kind of
hone it, gather it in, find itso that it can be tuned to a
specific station, so that youcan actually really really get
the full message of what that is.
And I love how, I love this workthat you're doing because it
gives people actual practicalsteps to work through these
(36:46):
things.
Because I think there's onething to sort of be aware
Perhaps somewhat of you know ourunconscious vows.
I think all of us have them, Ithink, also to give.
I mean I love, and then, ofcourse, it makes so much sense
like not only from love, butthen moving it into money,
career, you know, anything wecan really bring it into.
And I love that you're givingpeople tools To you know if
(37:10):
they're ready for it, which Ithink it takes a lot of self
awareness.
Like you said, it is for theseason spiritual seekers like
okay, cool, like I'm aware thatthis is here and I want to work
through it and I want to be ableto get to the other side of it,
because I love that you call ita splinter, because it's
literally like the tweezers outright, like it makes so much,
(37:31):
make so much sense.
Thank you, and I'm so glad thatyou were able to listen as you
went through this process toallow all of this to come out of
you in such a beautiful way.
And it's so interesting becausefor each person that this
happens to, when the gifts getturned on, it's like we all kind
of find our own path.
(37:51):
You know our own kind of veryspecial way of serving and I
think, your ability to logicallysort of put things together and
connect ideas and then be ableto communicate them with words
in a very logical, clear way.
It's truly beautiful, and I'mso yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Thank you for that beautiful reflection.
I'm just so happy that itresonates and I feel like, with
this practice, it just I feellike it's, it is magic actually,
and I feel like to close theloop on what was open in 2011
like what was open for me wasmagic and I was like whoa, you
know the internal Wrestle anddiscord was like how do I make
(38:35):
magic fit in what other peopleare going to find palatable or
comprehensible?
you know, I'm so like reallyRelaxing over the years with
that and just speaking from myheart, but from a place of, if
this resonates, awesome.
You know.
If it doesn't, this obviouslyisn't the practice for you.
But please always go inside,listen to your own intuition,
(38:58):
your own knowing, a payattention to what Is true for
you.
You know there's something thatfeels incredibly like
respectful and empowering andalso just really fun with that.
You know you'll get to decidefor ourselves what's going to
support us at any given time andI believe that we're going to
be pulled into or, in our case,like Re-pulled into each other's
fields at a moment where thereis resonance, where there's some
(39:21):
kind of mutual, mutual gift,mutual lifting 100%.
Yeah 100%.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I love it, I really do.
And it's so interesting tobecause, as you said, it's like
a lot of internal struggle.
I find it's almost like goingthrough a spiritual puberty
where it's like we're havingweird little hairs growing out
of places, like I don't knowwhat to do with this, and then
it takes time To learn how tolike okay, let's brush the hair
and this is how we take care ofourselves, and then we're able
(39:51):
to then make sense of it all andbring it out into the world.
But it takes it's an awkwardbit of bit of wrestling to do.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
It really isn't.
It's gonna kick up so muchstuff, isn't it like?
I just want to kind of yourbrief anecdote about a
conversation I had yesterdaywith a beautiful therapist who
Was wanting to speak with me tosee whether she could refer her
single clients to me.
You know, for the dating workwhich I still do, I still help
women find love.
You know I'm moving more andmore into this work in terms of
(40:20):
the unconscious house andsplinters.
But yes, you know, sometimes Istill get people saying can I
refer people to your realprogram?
You know it's such a beautifulcomprehensive program around
really establishing needs andvalues, boundaries and all of
those kind of things you know.
And she said to me what do youdo like as if someone comes to
you and they're not resonatingwith your spiritual language or
your magical language and youknow?
(40:42):
So interesting for me to checkin with myself on that, because
in the past I would have saidwell, I'll figure out, you know
what it is that they need andsee whether I can create an
offering which will meet them.
And there's nothing wrong withthat.
I think that you know, reallyresponding to the person in
front of you can be a beautiful,you know thing to do as well,
(41:02):
but I stop myself because I waslike you know what it's like if
someone isn't Really veryspiritual, magical, and I come
into, want to work with me, thenthe best thing for me to do is
make a referral orrecommendation to somebody else
who's really gonna meet themwhere they're at.
And so I think that's probablythe biggest marker of where you
know you sort of get to yourbeautiful point when you brush
(41:23):
your hair and then you put onyour outfits and when you're
really ready to stand and lookat yourself in the mirror before
you go out and say, hey, thisis me and this is, this is who I
am and this is what I offer andthese are the people that I
serve.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
And I know that if someone comes and there's not
like a perfect fit or aresonance, is nothing wrong, you
know, but it's just thatthere's probably going to be
someone else who's gonna supportthat person more at this time
that is such a huge piece and Italk about that a lot with my
fellow female entrepreneurs andsort of the wellness and
(41:56):
spirituality Fear space, becauseI think there is that sort of
inherent want to meet everybodywhere they're at and, like you
said, serve them okay.
Well, if you don't like it, likethis, like let me.
Or watering it down, right, Italk about sometimes I try to
give people what they're able todigest I'm gonna say at the
(42:16):
level there, at, but whatthey're ready for, you know in a
sense, and at the same time,and then if they're ready, like
alright, let's go full blast.
Like alright, let's go fullblast.
And I don't try to baby anyoneat the same time, but like the
reality is the work that I do,you know, from an outside
perspective, if you were to justpure in through my little
windows here where I do mysessions, like it's pretty weird
(42:36):
, freaky stuff, it's loud, youknow there's it gets crazy,
right, and that's not going tobe for everybody.
And I think it's that big sortof like people pleasing aspect
of maybe us as women, as well asto be like oh well, let me just
change my.
Let me just like oh, should Iput on a different outfit.
Like you, like my hair and adifferent whatever it is right
Like oh, I can be this for this,it can be this for you, which
(42:59):
also goes into relationshipslike it just goes into so many
of these.
How do you want me?
It's like nah, like we're notplaying that anymore.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
I feel like it's so kind and loving, respect and
respectful to everybody involvedto just be so fully real about
you know, how you do your bestwork and what it looks like at
the outset, so that everyone canmake an informed decision like
Do we want to step into thiscontainer and have this
experience?
Does it feel aligned?
And if not, that's okay.
(43:34):
It doesn't mean that there'sanything else.
It's not a match or not a matchfor now.
There's something like I think Iagree is so much of the you
know, letting go of thechameleon, letting go of the
people pleasing, letting go ofthe performer in there, and it's
also like letting go ofscarcity and coming into a true
abundance mindset, which is thatyou know there's more than
(43:54):
enough.
You know, truly, you knowthere's more than enough and I
totally want to acknowledge.
You know I'm saying that from aposition of privilege, right,
you know, I'm living in losangeles, white woman.
You know, with plenty ofeducation, plenty of privilege,
you know, but it's, it is areally liberating thing.
You know, to know and trustthat right people are going to
(44:15):
be drawn to you at the righttime yeah, 100%, it's a big
lesson.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
It's a big, big, big lesson, and it's when I continue
to move through and it's sorefreshing.
It's why I love to have thesekind of conversations with women
like you, where we can sort ofshow each other hey, girl like I
go through it too, we're allpushing through it, we're all
working through it.
And as we see one woman do it,it's like okay, as I saw you
wrote your book out.
(44:41):
If, as you can do it, I can doit right.
It's like that's where we'rehere to be, I think, also living
examples for other women.
And as we continue to walk downthese paths of, yeah, walking in
our purpose, even when it'sawkward, even when we go through
these weird little spiritualpuberty is whatever it is, it's
like okay, how can I, how can I?
(45:02):
Sort of I love how you'vespoken so much, even into this
conversation of sort of likeliterally having your ear tuned
to the earth or tuned to themoon, or you're really in this
conversation where you're ableto listen and follow.
And, yeah, there might be thosestruggles where you're like, ah
, this is weird.
You know, I have to breakthrough all of these, all of
this conditioning, all of whatsociety tells me I should do, to
(45:24):
just allow yourself to, yeah,get into that stream.
What an honor, what an honor tobe in your presence.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
It's very, very, very much like my honor to get to be
in this conversation and get tobe talking about my work like
this with you.
Thank you so much for yourbeautiful questions in the space
that you open and hold.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Absolutely, absolutely.
What a gift.
So let's wrap it up there,because, my gosh, I just can't
wait, because I know there's.
Okay, let's hear it.
Is there a book coming?
What's next for you?
How can people work with you?
Let us know.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yes, so I have People want to know.
Yes, I have written anotherbook.
I've written a book about theunconscious vows and the
splinters, so that is in thepipeline For now.
I mean, you know, we all knowhow long books take.
That may be another year or twountil it sees the light of day,
(46:27):
but it is coming.
So esicspensercom day and time.
So esicspensercom is where youcan find out the information
about the one-on-one sessions.
So I currently do thesesplinter removal sessions, which
are, quite honestly, like lifechanging, for the right person
at the right time.
If you're really coming upagainst the edge of a challenge
(46:47):
that you cannot seem to movethrough, and if what I'm saying
about the unconscious vows andthe splinters is resonating, go
over to esicspensercom and checkout more information about that
one-on-one service.
And then something else that'scoming down the pipeline is a
training program for that, andso this is something which I
wasn't planning on doing rightaway, but I think the last eight
people that I've takensplinters out have asked me how
(47:10):
they can then learn the methodso that they can do it with
themselves and with theirfriends and family and clients.
So you know that's somethingdefinitely to look out for as
well, and reach out to me asesicspenser on Instagram, and so
just reach out and say thatyou're interested and we can
have a chat and I'll let youknow as that training program
develops.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Perfect.
I will link everything in theshow notes so, my dear listener,
definitely have a look, giveher a follow.
She shares a lot of reallyjuicy information.
I mean, if this conversation iseven like a hint of what she
has to offer.
I mean, there's a lot there andI highly recommend checking out
Aziz's website and her podcast,Relove.
(47:51):
We got all the links.
We got all the links for you.
Go check them out.
And such a gift.
I'm just excited for everythingand thank you so much for
sharing your journey and I'mreally happy that we were able
to connect in this way and I gotto hear about how you came to
this space and into this placein your life.
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Oh my gosh, you're so welcome.
It's such a pleasure.
Thank you for inviting me on.
Like I said, you hold beautifulspace and I really appreciate
the questions and getting thechance to share a little bit
about what's moving through me.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Well, thank you and keep on letting it move through
you.
We're excited to see where yougo.
There's always something nextdown the river of life Little
song I made up, goodnessgracious.
Well, my dear listener, thankyou so much for tuning in.
I hope that you too, like Ihave have received some really
(48:48):
juicy wisdom.
And thank you as he.
Once again, thank you to ourlistener.
This has been another episodeof the Ode to Joy podcast.
What an absolute joy thatconversation was.
Dear listener, did you love itas much as I did?
Because I loved it.
And if you loved it as much asI did, why not?
(49:10):
While you're here, go ahead,hit the subscribe button, do
yourself a favor.
And then why not do me a favor?
Throw in a review, throw us acouple of stars.
Let's spread a little bit oflove today.
Okay, listen, I love you somuch and I'll talk to you again
very soon.
Welcome to the Ode to Joy podcast, a show where we
talk about joy how do wecultivate it, how do we maintain
it and what are the things thatget in the way.
I'm your host, shamanicDeathdula, and comedian Alana
Box, bringing you another partof our season two on the show,
talking all about our inner muse, or inner genius.
(00:22):
Today we are talking with EZSpencer.
Hello everybody, and welcomeback to the Ode to Joy podcast.
We are coming to you withanother episode of our season
two on the podcast, which is allabout the muse, and today we
(00:43):
are bringing on my dear friend,ez Spencer.
Welcome, ez.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
So fun to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
It's such a juicy conversation that I'm so excited
to get into with you today.
So just a little bit of abackground about EZ.
I mean, there's so much I wantto share, but just a background
for our listener, who perhapshas just meeting you now for the
first time.
Ez is originally from Australia, which automatically gives you
a bunch of really cool points.
(01:14):
By the way, Straight off thebat, I'm a big fan of
Australians.
Remind me where in Australiaare you from?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I've lived all over, so I'm from Sydney, canberra,
melbourne, so Melbourne's themost home-like feeling part of
Australia right now.
But I've been out of Australiafor a while.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
And she's also lived in New York and currently you're
in LA, but you're maybe goingback to Melbourne and maybe
coming back to New York.
She's an international chick.
Okay, okay, ladies andgentlemen, so originally
Australian, automatic, very coolpoints.
She is an author.
She's an author of the bookcalled Lunar Abundance, which I
believe you were writing when wefirst met, when we were in
(01:54):
Holly.
Is that right, yeah?
2016.
2016.
She's also the host of apodcast called ReLove, and this
is also something that I'm superexcited to talk to you about,
about just sort of like yourpath of really how you've come
into your work, but as youstarted out as a human rights
lawyer, so she is a smart chick,my friend.
(02:16):
She has a PhD.
Is it a PhD in therapeuticjurisprudence?
Is that right, yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
It's a mouthful, but I thought I was going to be a
mental health law professor.
That was where I was trackingbefore everything changed.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh my gosh, I mean that's even fascinating in and
of itself.
But then you've also worked.
So you were working as a lawyerspecifically with women who had
been subjected to abuse, isthat right?
Yeah, yeah, I mean so manyfascinating avenues that you've
been down, that you're goingdown and I'm just so excited to
(02:52):
dive into it with you today.
But I had to before we, likebefore we really really dive in.
I had to just say it.
I love telling my guests howI've met my, how I have met, or
when I tell my listeners how Ihave met my guests.
So Ezi and I met when I wasliving in Bali.
She was working on her book.
I had gone there, you know,basically like three months
(03:12):
after my father had passed.
I was in this really weird rawmoment where it was actually the
best place for me to be was inUbud, which was really a place
for healing, and I met Ezi andshe was just this amazing woman.
I don't even remember where hemet, but it might have been an
ecstatic dance, something likethis, the Sunday ecstatic dance
(03:33):
in Ubud and she told me she wasworking on her book and I was
really inspired, and so I toldyou when we reconnected recently
at an event in New York thatyou are one of the biggest, you
know, sort of inspirations andmy personal muse as someone who
I look up to that.
When I saw you were writing abook it just sort of dawned on
me as I was ready.
(03:54):
You know, I started writing itwhen I was in Bali and then I
was like, well, as he can do it,like I can do it, why not?
And yeah, so you're a biginspiration to me, ezi.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I love that story so much.
It blew my mind when you toldme that, because we just have no
idea the impact that we have onother people.
Like you know the positiveimpact that we have on other
people when we're simply justliving our purpose.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So amazing, Thank you for sharing that with me.
Yeah, huge, huge, and it'sreally true.
I mean you could, you couldtouch somebody's life just by
walking down the street andsmiling at them at like the most
perfect moment, just when theyneed it, and you really never
know.
So that's like a little, alittle gem I've been carrying
with me.
So, speaking of living in yourpurpose, we're getting to the
topic of the day, which is allabout the muse, our inner genius
(04:40):
, our inner daemon, which I justlove.
As young puts, it is our innerdaemon and and it's all about
living your purpose.
So I'm sort of curious for youwhen we bring to mind the idea
of living your purpose, you know, walking from this space of
embodying and bringing out yourinner muse, like what comes to
(05:02):
mind.
What does it feel like in yourbody when you, when you think of
this sort of concept of theinner muse?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, I mean it feels very alive.
I have to say I'm very blessed,lucky and grateful to say it
also feels like quite normal Nowfor me, because of the
decisions that I've made, whichhave been difficult decisions
over the years.
At first it felt incrediblycounterintuitive to live from
this place, but now, happily, Ihave designed a life where this
is just my normal, this is myset point, which is absolutely,
(05:32):
you know, an incredibleprivilege.
And so, yeah, I feel alive.
I feel just truly, having thisconversation, like my palms are
lit up, I've got tingles allthrough my body.
I feel really connected, youknow, with my heart, with my
womb.
You know it feels reallydelicious and embodied, but it
feels like there's a lot oflevity, a lot of relaxation, a
lot of joy.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yes, yes, yes.
I mean that's what we all want.
Right Is is to be living everyday as if you know we're really
walking from this place of powerand allowing our gifts to come
out.
So I want to take it back.
Let's take it back.
Take it back to where we allbegan.
So you were a lawyer and thenwas there like a specific.
(06:14):
So here's the question.
I guess I have multiplequestions like when you went
into that and, as you said, youhad a certain idea of like where
it would go.
When you went into that, like,was there a certain moment?
How do I say, when you wentinto it, did you feel like, okay
, this is 100%, this is myinterview, like this is the
thing I need to follow, or wasit something that you sort of
like had this idea of?
Like this is who I should be?
Like, where was your internalmuse guiding you in that
(06:37):
direction when you went intothat kind of?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question and I think
there's so many layers to it.
It just felt very natural to goto law school, and I would say
that when I discovered domesticviolence and sexual assault
which is the area of the lawthat I specialized in that felt
incredibly alive, I feltincredibly passionate about that
and I threw myself into thatwork.
(07:02):
So, yes, to answer yourquestion, full inner muse
activation, so much so that Iwent on to do the PhD
therapeutic jurisprudence forwomen who've been subjected to
sexual assault, and the contextof interpersonal violence and
relationships.
So, basically, toxicrelationships and therapeutic
jurisprudence it's all about thelaw as healing.
So little did I know, though,when I started my PhD on the law
(07:23):
as healing.
It was going to be a catalystfor a completely different
career, which was actually morefocused on the healing, but yes,
I do feel like I was, for manyyears, really living my purpose
in the law.
It was a necessary lily pad, ifyou will, to then open up into
what it is.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I spent the last decade doing Isn't that so
interesting that's why I lovehaving these conversations is to
talk about how one thing led toanother.
And when you first embarked onyour career, how would you have
known that this is where itwould have led?
I mean, it's really fascinating, wow, okay.
So was there like when did youknow that this was where you
(08:06):
wanted to kind of go fromworking in law into diving more
into the healing aspect of it?
Was there a specific moment?
Was there something like wasthere an aha moment, or did it
slowly develop?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I mean, oh look, that was a dramatic moment.
The 15th of March 2011 was theday that my life changed, so
there was a moment Wow.
Having said that, I also dothink it's a bothant.
I think it was evolvingunderneath the surface for many
years, but then, when it crackedopen, it cracked open and it
was like there's my life beforethe 15th of March 2011.
(08:47):
That was my life since thatpoint Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Wow, I have full body chills.
Can you take us into this day?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah for sure.
So you know, on the there'sactually a couple of levels of
telling the story, because onone level of telling the story,
what happened on the 15th ofMarch is that I had a home
invasion, which is neverpleasant, like no one wants.
A home invasion Probably is notgoing to change the course of
your life, unless what happenedthe night before.
(09:14):
So I had been very deep in ameditation practice for a number
of years.
I've been working with the mooncycle.
I've been really connectingwith my femininity, with my
intuition.
I was meditating for severalhours a day in the lead up to
this.
But what happened the nightbefore the home invasion is that
, lying in bed, fully awake, Ihad a full vision of what was
going to happen the next day,and so it wasn't a dream.
(09:36):
I was awake, but I saw what wasgoing to happen the next day
and so so much so I took stepsthe following day in order to
avoid it.
But you know, of course ithappened and when it rolled out
it was happening in slow motionbecause I was literally just
seeing the vision I had thenight before.
So obviously no one wants ahome invasion Like that.
Sucked, that bit, sucked.
No-transcript.
(09:57):
The piece that really shook meto my core was the fact that
reality was not the way that, asa lawyer, I had been trained to
understand that reality was.
So I have been trained to seethat time is linear, like things
happen in front of your eyes.
When they happen, they areobservable.
There are facts, like I wasdeeply in not just the law but
(10:20):
also in academia I was doing myPhD at the time and so it was
like an I mean, ontological kindof like shock collapse on me at
that point in time.
It took me about six months tolike fully calibrate inside of
it because, effectively, whathad happened is that, like the
time space continuum broke forme and from there I was blown
(10:43):
wide open.
Like my circuits were justcompletely and absolutely.
Like I could see things inpeople, I could see energy, I
had visions.
It activated all of these likemagical powers, I suppose.
But again, like this is 2011.
So you don't have theexperience now where you go onto
the internet or you go onInstagram.
(11:04):
Instagram wasn't even really athing in 2011, you know.
So people were sharing aboutmagic, at least not in my world,
in my sphere, and so it wasextremely disorienting for me
and it led to a lot of internalstruggle.
You know which we can get to interms of the obstacles that I
encountered, because I didn'treally know how to make sense of
(11:25):
what started on that day andwhat just continued to happen in
terms of the way that I couldjust see things in people and
see things in myself and seethings in life that I couldn't
see before that day.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
So much to unpack there.
Oh, my god, I mean howfascinating I mean this
experience that you had.
I mean it's so interesting thatyou can really take it back to
this very specific day.
I definitely relate into thatin that sense of mine.
I call it when we like pop thetop off, and so I always say
like, yeah, back when my top wastotally popped off.
(12:03):
You know, you know I couldnarrow it down to like a
specific day, but really it isthis kind of like unfolding of
everything opening up after that.
That then you have to makesense of Because it's a very
fine line, as you say, when youbreak that time space continuum
where you go okay, so reality isnot reality in the way that
I've always understood realityto behave the laws, literally
(12:23):
the laws of how things aresupposed to go, how matter is
formed, how matter is heldtogether, how we interact with
people, how we see people, howwe are perceived, and so when
you take all of those laws awayand you don't necessarily have
someone who can kind of holdyour hand through it and be like
listen, you're not crazy,sweetheart, like these, the
(12:43):
gifts are just coming through,and that it can be very
terrifying, I mean, I'll say formyself, but I'm also curious,
like because, as you said, whenthis all happened for you you
know, I mean mine when I, when Ihad my top popped off, it was
2012.
So a year later and it was, youknow, it was harder to find like
I remember having to dig up oldsort of like Stanislaw Graf
(13:07):
articles or, you know, youtubevideos, like anything, and I
found out about, like, what wecall spiritual emergence or a
spiritual crisis, or you couldsay awakening, or you know, I
had to really do my own researchand I would, you know, take out
these books from the libraryjust to kind of put together the
clues, because I knew that whatwas coming through was
(13:27):
certainly something that was agift.
If only I could just keep thetop on enough to make sense of
it all.
So I'm curious to hear for you,like, how was that process for
you?
And then, is that what then ledyou?
Like, at what point, then, didit lead you into your work with
the moon, your work in birthingyour book?
Like, at what point did youwere you able to put it together
(13:50):
and be like, okay, cool, like?
These are the parts of how Ican synthesize this and begin to
serve it up as a service, likeas a gift to the world.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, that's a great question, you know.
I mean, the experience washorrible for me and I totally
relate to what it is that youjust shared, when you had your
experience in 2012, where you'relike looking for resources to
try to make sense of it, becauseit was horrible, it was not
enjoyable for me, and part ofthat was because I was fighting
it mentally, yeah, and part ofthat struggle was that, you know
(14:22):
, there was my my, my, my, mylogical, rational brain that was
finding myself and what wasactually a true experience that
I was having.
So the internal discord wasactually the real piece of
discomfort for about, well, I'mgoing to say six months, you
know, for it took me about sixmonths to recalibrate, but I'll
be totally honest, like itprobably took me many, many,
(14:44):
many, many, many years to find asense of internal peace and
coherence with that internaldiscord.
I feel like that has actuallybeen the story from 2011 through
to 2023, quite honestly.
But having said that, therewere, of course, many other
(15:05):
steps along the way, and so oneof it is one of those steps, of
course is that I had beenconnected with the moon ever
since I was a little girl.
I had been working with themoon in my personal practice
already prior to March 2011.
I'd already been talking aboutit and sharing about it in terms
of what I was learning aboutworking with the moon cycle,
connecting with my own rhythms,cycles, my own sense of myself
(15:27):
and my femininity, my feeling,and so, after the 15th of March
2011, I just started talkingabout it more and I would say
what happened very organicallyis that I became magnetic, like
people just started to come tome to ask how can I work with
you?
Now I was still doing my PhD,you know, my PhD in 2013.
So it's like I graduated and soforth.
(15:49):
So for years I was thinking Iwould continue along that career
track.
I still really wanted to belong, and that's actually a really
important piece because I feellike that sense of wanting to
belong in the establishment, youknow, with people who I felt
were clever and important, and Ialso don't want to put too fine
(16:09):
a point on that piece becausethe rest of it's also true like
people who are doing reallyimportant work in the world, and
I'm still a huge proponent ofstructural change.
Now I work more with the innerrealms and the individual, but
you know, I don't want todiminish, you know, the work
that is done by incrediblyintelligent people, but I was, I
suppose, myself.
It wasn't really an easy fitfor me in that world anymore,
(16:30):
but the piece for me that led tothat internal discomfort, that
discord, was that I continue totry to fit in.
I continue to try to belongwhen I was really in myself,
like opening up to the nextstage of my own evolution.
So, anyway, bringing it back,so I spoke about the Moon Cycle
by the time I finished my PhD in2013.
I had a thriving business, aglobal coaching business so this
(16:52):
is again in the early days ofInstagram and Facebook, so I was
just sharing on these socialmedia platforms.
I had a blog.
I was sharing, I had an onlineprogram and I had hundreds and
hundreds of clients who cameinto a group program, into one
on one work with me.
And this is really aboutworking with the Moon Cycle to
find joy and peace and purpose.
I developed a practical lunarabundance which, of course, led
(17:13):
to the book which I was writingin 2016, which was published,
you know, in Australia 2017 andNew York in 2018.
And then that's what had mecome to the US in 2018.
But you know, I don't know.
I mean it was really.
There were so many parts ofthis journey, but it was really
(17:33):
when I met an amazing I mean Iwant to say teacher, coach,
facilitator, guide, shaman,witch doctor I mean he could
easily have all of those titlesand you know it still wouldn't
encompass his spirit.
But I met the right person forme to work with, to really break
through to, to find that senseof internal peace and coherence.
(17:56):
And that's been a huge part ofthe journey of making peace with
what happened but also where Iam now, but also where it is
that I am going in the future.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I think that's a really important piece,
especially when we talk aboutthe music is the role of the
mentor and the teacher, and Ithink it's also interesting how,
at different points in ourlives, there's different roles
of mentors and teachers thatcome in and thank goodness we
find the ones at the right.
What they say, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
When the student is ready.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
The teacher comes.
So I imagine that must havebeen really helpful for you at
that time to sort of make senseof what you were going through.
And then also to how do I sayit?
Like I said, it's like we allneed that.
I think we need a hand to holdwhen we're going through these
experiences because, especiallyif we're operating in, I want to
say, like the normal world, thereal world, where we have our
(18:54):
careers, we have the ways thatwe interact, and going through
an experience like this, like Isaid, it breaks all of the rules
and so you have to kind ofrelearn literally how to be a
quote unquote normal human inevery day life.
Because it sort of feels likeyou're, like is my skin suit on
right?
Like, am I okay?
It's awkward man, it's reallyawkward.
(19:15):
So I'd love to hear morespecifically about, like, what
types of tools did this teacherhelp you hone for yourself?
Like, what were those sort ofgifts that you were given by
this teacher?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, I mean, it's such a good question and it's
like I will distill it down toand this may sound cliched, but
you know I will distill it downto love.
You know this teacher taught mecompassion and forgiveness and
you know there's so much thatsits underneath those terms.
But I feel like you know, inpart remembering that my first
(19:53):
career was around working withwomen who had been in abusive
relationships, and so there wasa lot of work that I needed to
do inside of myself, you know,inside of you know many, many
lifetimes, if you will todisentangle disempowerment
dynamics.
And so I would say that thegreatest gift you know that I
had from this teacher wasactually a relational one, in
(20:15):
the sense of like, piece bypiece, like going through and
passing out and untangling allof my own.
You know old stories anddistortions about people from
the past doing deep work aroundfamily and releasing family.
You know present and departedfamily, and I feel like really
coming to that beautiful placeof compassion and forgiveness
(20:37):
then opened, you know, me up tothen be able to create healthy
love, which is where I went intowith real love.
That's what I did at Delina.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
What a perfect segue.
Tell us more, tell me more,tell me more.
It's very cool, because that'sthe thing too, that's the name
of the game here is like reallylearning how to lean into these
places, where the next kind ofiteration of our work comes out,
and I love that you followedthat.
So can you tell us a bit about,about real love?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, I mean it's.
Yeah.
I feel like it's reallyinteresting because if Lunar
Abundance was about selfknowledge and personal power in
agency, if that was the reallesson there, then I'd say the
real lesson in real love isabout self worth.
So understanding not just thatyou are deserving of love
(21:30):
because of course we all are, wehave intrinsic value, because
we exist, like we are allloveable, we all are worthy of
love but really deeply knowingit, like on a cellular level,
like actually feeling it in yourbody that you are worthy of
love, rather than a great firststep, which is the positive self
talk and the affirmations likehuge fan of that, and going from
(21:50):
that mental level, thatintellectual understanding, into
the full open knowing of thatis really what allows you to be
open and available for love,because you have that sense of
self love and wholeness insideof yourself first and foremost,
which then means that you canreceive that love from someone
else you know and you canco-create healthy partnership,
(22:12):
and so that's really the coremedicine, if you will, inside of
real love.
It's like taking these ideas ofself love and deserving us out
of our mind, like no longertaking it from the neck up, but
really having us live andbreathe and know that and then
navigate the world, the world oflove and dating and
relationships, yes, but also theworld, large, from that place,
(22:36):
of self love, self worth andwholeness.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
And your work has been actually very helpful for
me and just following you, youshare so many beautiful tips and
resources on your Instagramwhich we will link in the show
notes to your listener.
But I think it really comesback down to, as you said, like
owning that self love on acellular level, so that when I'm
walking through the streets itdoesn't matter who is in my life
(23:01):
, who's out of my life.
It's that forgiveness piecewhich I also want to hear so
much about too, but it's like Ican own and love myself, every
single part of myself, thebeautiful, glamorous version of
me, and the version of me thatyou know is curled up on the
couch in a black hoodie, eatingcheese doodles.
You know we love her too.
We love all versions of mebecause she that me, is worthy
(23:25):
of love on all levels.
And that's like a big piece thatI think I took with me is also
just like honing that sense ofself, the worth, but then also
just being like girl, likeyou're awesome and we're good on
our own and like we can have agreat time on our own, and then
from that space being able tofind love, from that sort of
(23:46):
like filled up cup space and Ireally took a lot of that and
learned a lot of that from you.
Something just keeps coming tome and because I do really want
to take it into this nextchapter of where your work is
moving, but I really just it'snot even a fully formed question
, but I love talking aboutforgiveness and I'd love to hear
(24:08):
your thoughts on howforgiveness plays in to this
work with real love, of how youcan, even if you're not in
relationship, or maybespecifically, if you're not in
relationship, how can we workwith forgiveness to then be
ready, perhaps, to receive loveon?
the other end of it.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, it's such a it's such a great question.
I'll tell you what thebreakthrough was for me on this
because, like I shared, you know, my, my teacher, my guide,
taught me compassion andforgiveness, but I feel like the
piece which really activatedand opened inside of myself was
self-compassion andself-forgiveness first, and so
(24:54):
you know the I mean, and it'sit's an interesting thing
because this is where I end upgoing with my work after this.
But I found it through reallove.
It was born through real love,which is that I came to a place
where a relationship which hadalways alluded me like healthy
relationship had been one of myown personal pain points.
That's why I devoted myself, Ithink professionally, you know
(25:15):
to relationship and torelationship dynamics, for you
know what has actually been acouple of decades, you know an
amazing relationship now, but ithad definitely alluded me.
And then it came very close tome when I was working, you know,
with this teacher, and onething that really hit me was
just how awful I felt when Icame close to what it is that I
(25:38):
said that I wanted, and again,that made no sense to my
conscious mind, because I'vebeen saying I was craving that
sense of self-full partnership,like that was what I was so
actively putting out into theuniverse and working towards.
And then I came so close to itthat it touched me and that was
where I absolutely fell apart,to the point where I can
(25:59):
remember, like one day, likelying on the grass, like feeling
like this might be you know theend because I felt so awful,
like it was the only time I feltso angry at the teacher like
you know, he's led me down thisgarden path like everything just
felt awful.
And then I said to myself, likewhat is going on?
Like actually what's going on?
This makes no sense, because Iam closer to what it is that I
(26:21):
said that I wanted than I everhave been, ever before.
And that was where I discoveredthe unconscious vows and the
splinters which we'll get to,you know.
But that was where I reallyneeded to go a layer deeper
inside of myself on thecompassion and the forgiveness
piece, like to bring it back toyour question and that was where
I realized the missing piece ofthe jigsaw for me was that I
was not feeling compassion andforgiveness for myself.
(26:43):
I was feeling it for all ofthese other people, which was
beautiful, but I wasn'tdirecting it inwards inside of
myself, and that was actually mybreakthrough, like that was my
medicine is to stop beatingmyself up for decisions that
I've made in the past,relationships that I had got
into where I wasn't treated as Iknew I deserved to be treated,
(27:04):
relationships that I didn'tbelieve, when I knew I should
have left.
There was so muchself-recrimination and
self-flagellating, you know,literally whipping myself still,
so much anger directed inwards,so much guilt and shame, and it
was the balm of self-compassion, self-forgiveness and I'd add
into that gratitude.
You know this is the coreformula which I now work with
(27:26):
the unconscious vows, but thisis the core piece
self-compassion,self-forgiveness and gratitude
for all the things that I'vedone right and really deeply
again on a cellular level,anchoring into that, knowing
that I hadn't done anythingwrong, like it wasn't my fault
that I'd made decisions that Ihad made because of imprinting
that I had had or tools that Ihadn't been taught, which, of
(27:50):
course, you know, as an adult Iwas able to acquire and learn
myself, you know.
So, in terms of the forgivenesspiece, self-forgiveness was
like the point where absolutelyeverything blasted open for me
in terms of self-love, of course, and in terms of, like, actual
romantic relationship, yes, butjust in terms of self-love.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So much soul food just in everything that you've
shared, and I see myself comingback and listening to this again
because there's just so much totake that from that.
Thank you, Wow, Mm-hmm.
And so you talk about usingyour specific pain point to
follow where you bring your workout, which I feel like is also
(28:32):
a big theme in, like, let'sbring out the internal muse is
like what hurts.
And I remember when I firststarted doing comedy, somebody
said to me you have to talkabout your pain, and I was like
nobody wants to hear that.
I was like no, that's not asgross.
They're like no, you have totalk about it.
And I think following our painpoints I think can be one of the
(28:53):
biggest, I think, catalysts ofhow we bring out our inner muse.
So I'm interested to hear, then, from this work if you could
bring us into this next stage ofyour work, the unconscious
boughs.
Yeah, it's so good, I love it.
(29:15):
I mean because it's so amazingto see how you've just allowed
yourself to follow.
Okay, so I started here andthen this happened, and then
it's like I always talk aboutgoing downriver, just putting
yourself in the stream andallowing yourself to float
downriver.
So it feels very organic in theway that you've spoken about
how this new, you know, chapterof your work is coming out.
So, yes, can you give us anidea of where we go from here
(29:37):
down the river into unconsciousbound?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah for sure, what I found, like after that day,
when I was like I am in thedepths of despair and you know
I'm laughing now only like witha huge amount of, like you know,
sweetness for that moment whereI guess I feel like I'd hit I
just you know what, you know,I'd hit that, that darkest
before the dawn moment.
And sometimes we think thatwhen we hit that moment, oh my
(30:02):
gosh, we're way back at thebeginning, when in fact we might
be even further back than wewere before we began, which is
how I felt on that day.
But the trick is, of course,we're just like one step away
from the ultimate you knowdestination, for whatever that
particular you know mission isall about.
And so for me, from there, youknow, I went back into a deep
(30:24):
meditation, actually, you know,and as in, like, I walked back
to my home and I sat in the hottub that I happened to have at
that particular time and Imeditated and you know what I
discovered was two things.
One is that I found I actuallyhad an unconscious vow, which
was a conscious decision that Ihad made, to stay single in
(30:45):
order to not feel like what itwas, that I was feeling that
sense of despair, right Like,and that was the splinter, which
I'll get to in a moment.
That's the second thing.
But I realized I had anunconscious vow.
So I had made at one point adecision to just stay single,
even though I was now sayingconsciously that I wanted to be
in relationship.
I can say that for years, butunconsciously, because I made a
(31:07):
decision that I put it in myunconscious.
No, no, no, as a bit of aworkaround, it's actually much
better to be on your own.
Okay, so that was the firstthing.
And so bringing thatunconscious vow up to the
surface is what I did in themeditation in the hot tub after
that experience.
Oh, okay, great, I can see.
Now you know what is actuallygoing on.
And then, by definition, onceyou bring something from the
(31:27):
unconscious into the conscious,it's no longer unconscious.
So it's then conscious and youcan decide whether or not you
want to work with it.
So I was like no, I don't wantto work with that anymore.
I want to undo that vow.
Right, I actually want to beopen and available for love.
That's the first piece.
The second piece then is well,what's the vow really protecting
against?
And you're never going to makea decision like that, unless you
(31:49):
are to your point in pain, likeyou're going to make a decision
like that to say, single in mycase.
You know you can haveunconscious vows in any area.
You know that's what I'm movinginto now.
It's just the university of it,but you're only ever going to
make a decision to protectyourself if there's something to
protect against.
So what's that?
You know?
And here is where we find thesplinters.
(32:09):
And now the splinters are likesplinters in the soul.
This is like what I see when Iwork with people.
I see three channels.
I see the power channel, thelove channel and the peace
channel, and I can see wherepeople are splintered.
And when I say I see it, I seeit with my eyes, you know, which
have been blasted open.
I've learned how to work withit in a much more targeted way
than I did back in 2011.
(32:31):
But I can see where people aresplintered, meaning when they've
had difficult experiences,either in this lifetime or
predating this lifetime.
And usually, by the way, it ispredating this lifetime, which
is why it is so confusing whenwe discover like these
impediments or these disruptions, I suppose, to the flow, like
why is love not flowing?
Was my question for inquiry formyself.
(32:51):
And then, in discovering thatsplinter for myself, this love
splinter, then turning thatcompassion, forgiveness back to
myself, so really practicingself compassion, self
forgiveness on a deep felt level.
And then gratitude is a way tomagnetize the splinter out.
And I just found this, likethrough trial and error and
(33:11):
working with these tools insideof myself, once I took it out it
was like it was gone and for methe splinter was actually
splintering my sense of selfworth.
I didn't feel like I was worthyof receiving love.
I just didn't feel that itwasn't anything that was me.
In fact, once we take a splinterout, once we take the vow out
or once you undo the vow becausethe vow is something, an
(33:32):
internal thing that we've donethe splinter is not internal.
The splinter is something thathas happened to us or to our
ancestors or to our soul and apast life, if your belief system
extends to that.
Once we take that out, we justreturn to our true state, and
our true state is always goingto be one of personal power,
self love, wholeness and innerpeace, like that's just what our
true state is.
And so coming back to that truestate simply is just going to
(33:56):
allow the energy to flow andit's simply going to restore
what is already true, which isthat a deep knowing that we are,
for example, worthy of love.
Or, for example, if the splinterand vow is in the power channel
, for example, if there's somesort of impediment to purpose or
prosperity, that we arepowerful beings, we are creators
.
And in the peace channel, whenthere's going to be some sort of
(34:16):
disturbance to a sense ofinternal coherence, it's going
to ultimately result in thatsense of inner balance and
harmony.
That's ultimately what happens.
We have all of those threechannels open, it's going to be
coherent, and so that's what theunconscious vow and the
splinter work is.
It was born from the real loveexperience and I did it for
years with my real love clients,like just in the area of love.
(34:39):
And then they startedgraduating and getting into
relationships and like beingopen in their true state of love
and being like now can we do?
Like money, can we do moneysolutions, can we do these?
And I was like, well, okay,we'll give it a go.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
You know why not, why not?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
And I really have found something which, at least
in my experience today, has beenpretty universal in terms of
meeting anybody you know, of anygender, of any challenge that
they feel stuck or resistant.
It's obviously like it is nottherapy I'm not like treating
trauma, of course not Like thisis a process to really open up
into greater expansion andgrowth, like it's for seasoned
(35:14):
spiritual seekers who have trieda lot of different things and
haven't been able to get to theroot of what is going on, but
who are, you know, have aninternal architecture that
supports, like a deepexploration and a really ready
date to drop in and have anembodied experience of self
compassion, self forgiveness andgratitude Cause that's the
three part formula thatmagnetizes out these impediments
(35:35):
that are not ours and returnsus to our true state of flow.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
My goodness, eze, I am so happy that you are in my
life, that I know you.
I have blown away how freakinggorgeous.
And here's the thing I loveknowing you now and hearing this
now, because it's such a treatto hear this coming from you at
(36:01):
this time when you've reallyhoned your skills Like you've
really I love that you spokeabout how, in the beginning, you
could see all of these thingswithin people.
But when the gifts first turnon I was just talking about this
with a friend the other dayit's like when the gifts first
turn on, it's like a faucet orlike a radio station tuned to
literally like every singlestation.
So it takes time for you know,each of us who've gone through
(36:24):
this to sort of fine tune it,literally be able to kind of
hone it, gather it in, find itso that it can be tuned to a
specific station, so that youcan actually really really get
the full message of what that is.
And I love how, I love this workthat you're doing because it
gives people actual practicalsteps to work through these
(36:46):
things.
Because I think there's onething to sort of be aware
Perhaps somewhat of you know ourunconscious vows.
I think all of us have them, Ithink, also to give.
I mean I love, and then, ofcourse, it makes so much sense
like not only from love, butthen moving it into money,
career, you know, anything wecan really bring it into.
And I love that you're givingpeople tools To you know if
(37:10):
they're ready for it, which Ithink it takes a lot of self
awareness.
Like you said, it is for theseason spiritual seekers like
okay, cool, like I'm aware thatthis is here and I want to work
through it and I want to be ableto get to the other side of it,
because I love that you call ita splinter, because it's
literally like the tweezers outright, like it makes so much,
(37:31):
make so much sense.
Thank you, and I'm so glad thatyou were able to listen as you
went through this process toallow all of this to come out of
you in such a beautiful way.
And it's so interesting becausefor each person that this
happens to, when the gifts getturned on, it's like we all kind
of find our own path.
(37:51):
You know our own kind of veryspecial way of serving and I
think, your ability to logicallysort of put things together and
connect ideas and then be ableto communicate them with words
in a very logical, clear way.
It's truly beautiful, and I'mso yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Thank you for that beautiful reflection.
I'm just so happy that itresonates and I feel like, with
this practice, it just I feellike it's, it is magic actually,
and I feel like to close theloop on what was open in 2011
like what was open for me wasmagic and I was like whoa, you
know the internal Wrestle anddiscord was like how do I make
(38:35):
magic fit in what other peopleare going to find palatable or
comprehensible?
you know, I'm so like reallyRelaxing over the years with
that and just speaking from myheart, but from a place of, if
this resonates, awesome.
You know.
If it doesn't, this obviouslyisn't the practice for you.
But please always go inside,listen to your own intuition,
(38:58):
your own knowing, a payattention to what Is true for
you.
You know there's something thatfeels incredibly like
respectful and empowering andalso just really fun with that.
You know you'll get to decidefor ourselves what's going to
support us at any given time andI believe that we're going to
be pulled into or, in our case,like Re-pulled into each other's
fields at a moment where thereis resonance, where there's some
(39:21):
kind of mutual, mutual gift,mutual lifting 100%.
Yeah 100%.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I love it, I really do.
And it's so interesting tobecause, as you said, it's like
a lot of internal struggle.
I find it's almost like goingthrough a spiritual puberty
where it's like we're havingweird little hairs growing out
of places, like I don't knowwhat to do with this, and then
it takes time To learn how tolike okay, let's brush the hair
and this is how we take care ofourselves, and then we're able
(39:51):
to then make sense of it all andbring it out into the world.
But it takes it's an awkwardbit of bit of wrestling to do.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
It really isn't.
It's gonna kick up so muchstuff, isn't it like?
I just want to kind of yourbrief anecdote about a
conversation I had yesterdaywith a beautiful therapist who
Was wanting to speak with me tosee whether she could refer her
single clients to me.
You know, for the dating workwhich I still do, I still help
women find love.
You know I'm moving more andmore into this work in terms of
(40:20):
the unconscious house andsplinters.
But yes, you know, sometimes Istill get people saying can I
refer people to your realprogram?
You know it's such a beautifulcomprehensive program around
really establishing needs andvalues, boundaries and all of
those kind of things you know.
And she said to me what do youdo like as if someone comes to
you and they're not resonatingwith your spiritual language or
your magical language and youknow?
(40:42):
So interesting for me to checkin with myself on that, because
in the past I would have saidwell, I'll figure out, you know
what it is that they need andsee whether I can create an
offering which will meet them.
And there's nothing wrong withthat.
I think that you know, reallyresponding to the person in
front of you can be a beautiful,you know thing to do as well,
(41:02):
but I stop myself because I waslike you know what it's like if
someone isn't Really veryspiritual, magical, and I come
into, want to work with me, thenthe best thing for me to do is
make a referral orrecommendation to somebody else
who's really gonna meet themwhere they're at.
And so I think that's probablythe biggest marker of where you
know you sort of get to yourbeautiful point when you brush
(41:23):
your hair and then you put onyour outfits and when you're
really ready to stand and lookat yourself in the mirror before
you go out and say, hey, thisis me and this is, this is who I
am and this is what I offer andthese are the people that I
serve.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
And I know that if someone comes and there's not
like a perfect fit or aresonance, is nothing wrong, you
know, but it's just thatthere's probably going to be
someone else who's gonna supportthat person more at this time
that is such a huge piece and Italk about that a lot with my
fellow female entrepreneurs andsort of the wellness and
(41:56):
spirituality Fear space, becauseI think there is that sort of
inherent want to meet everybodywhere they're at and, like you
said, serve them okay.
Well, if you don't like it, likethis, like let me.
Or watering it down, right, Italk about sometimes I try to
give people what they're able todigest I'm gonna say at the
(42:16):
level there, at, but whatthey're ready for, you know in a
sense, and at the same time,and then if they're ready, like
alright, let's go full blast.
Like alright, let's go fullblast.
And I don't try to baby anyoneat the same time, but like the
reality is the work that I do,you know, from an outside
perspective, if you were to justpure in through my little
windows here where I do mysessions, like it's pretty weird
(42:36):
, freaky stuff, it's loud, youknow there's it gets crazy,
right, and that's not going tobe for everybody.
And I think it's that big sortof like people pleasing aspect
of maybe us as women, as well asto be like oh well, let me just
change my.
Let me just like oh, should Iput on a different outfit.
Like you, like my hair and adifferent whatever it is right
Like oh, I can be this for this,it can be this for you, which
(42:59):
also goes into relationshipslike it just goes into so many
of these.
How do you want me?
It's like nah, like we're notplaying that anymore.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
I feel like it's so kind and loving, respect and
respectful to everybody involvedto just be so fully real about
you know, how you do your bestwork and what it looks like at
the outset, so that everyone canmake an informed decision like
Do we want to step into thiscontainer and have this
experience?
Does it feel aligned?
And if not, that's okay.
(43:34):
It doesn't mean that there'sanything else.
It's not a match or not a matchfor now.
There's something like I think Iagree is so much of the you
know, letting go of thechameleon, letting go of the
people pleasing, letting go ofthe performer in there, and it's
also like letting go ofscarcity and coming into a true
abundance mindset, which is thatyou know there's more than
(43:54):
enough.
You know, truly, you knowthere's more than enough and I
totally want to acknowledge.
You know I'm saying that from aposition of privilege, right,
you know, I'm living in losangeles, white woman.
You know, with plenty ofeducation, plenty of privilege,
you know, but it's, it is areally liberating thing.
You know, to know and trustthat right people are going to
(44:15):
be drawn to you at the righttime yeah, 100%, it's a big
lesson.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
It's a big, big, big lesson, and it's when I continue
to move through and it's sorefreshing.
It's why I love to have thesekind of conversations with women
like you, where we can sort ofshow each other hey, girl like I
go through it too, we're allpushing through it, we're all
working through it.
And as we see one woman do it,it's like okay, as I saw you
wrote your book out.
(44:41):
If, as you can do it, I can doit right.
It's like that's where we'rehere to be, I think, also living
examples for other women.
And as we continue to walk downthese paths of, yeah, walking in
our purpose, even when it'sawkward, even when we go through
these weird little spiritualpuberty is whatever it is, it's
like okay, how can I, how can I?
(45:02):
Sort of I love how you'vespoken so much, even into this
conversation of sort of likeliterally having your ear tuned
to the earth or tuned to themoon, or you're really in this
conversation where you're ableto listen and follow.
And, yeah, there might be thosestruggles where you're like, ah
, this is weird.
You know, I have to breakthrough all of these, all of
this conditioning, all of whatsociety tells me I should do, to
(45:24):
just allow yourself to, yeah,get into that stream.
What an honor, what an honor tobe in your presence.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
It's very, very, very much like my honor to get to be
in this conversation and get tobe talking about my work like
this with you.
Thank you so much for yourbeautiful questions in the space
that you open and hold.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Absolutely, absolutely.
What a gift.
So let's wrap it up there,because, my gosh, I just can't
wait, because I know there's.
Okay, let's hear it.
Is there a book coming?
What's next for you?
How can people work with you?
Let us know.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yes, so I have People want to know.
Yes, I have written anotherbook.
I've written a book about theunconscious vows and the
splinters, so that is in thepipeline For now.
I mean, you know, we all knowhow long books take.
That may be another year or twountil it sees the light of day,
(46:27):
but it is coming.
So esicspensercom day and time.
So esicspensercom is where youcan find out the information
about the one-on-one sessions.
So I currently do thesesplinter removal sessions, which
are, quite honestly, like lifechanging, for the right person
at the right time.
If you're really coming upagainst the edge of a challenge
(46:47):
that you cannot seem to movethrough, and if what I'm saying
about the unconscious vows andthe splinters is resonating, go
over to esicspensercom and checkout more information about that
one-on-one service.
And then something else that'scoming down the pipeline is a
training program for that, andso this is something which I
wasn't planning on doing rightaway, but I think the last eight
people that I've takensplinters out have asked me how
(47:10):
they can then learn the methodso that they can do it with
themselves and with theirfriends and family and clients.
So you know that's somethingdefinitely to look out for as
well, and reach out to me asesicspenser on Instagram, and so
just reach out and say thatyou're interested and we can
have a chat and I'll let youknow as that training program
develops.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Perfect.
I will link everything in theshow notes so, my dear listener,
definitely have a look, giveher a follow.
She shares a lot of reallyjuicy information.
I mean, if this conversation iseven like a hint of what she
has to offer.
I mean, there's a lot there andI highly recommend checking out
Aziz's website and her podcast,Relove.
(47:51):
We got all the links.
We got all the links for you.
Go check them out.
And such a gift.
I'm just excited for everythingand thank you so much for
sharing your journey and I'mreally happy that we were able
to connect in this way and I gotto hear about how you came to
this space and into this placein your life.
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Oh my gosh, you're so welcome.
It's such a pleasure.
Thank you for inviting me on.
Like I said, you hold beautifulspace and I really appreciate
the questions and getting thechance to share a little bit
about what's moving through me.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Well, thank you and keep on letting it move through
you.
We're excited to see where yougo.
There's always something nextdown the river of life Little
song I made up, goodnessgracious.
Well, my dear listener, thankyou so much for tuning in.
I hope that you too, like Ihave have received some really
(48:48):
juicy wisdom.
And thank you as he.
Once again, thank you to ourlistener.
This has been another episodeof the Ode to Joy podcast.
What an absolute joy thatconversation was.
Dear listener, did you love itas much as I did?
Because I loved it.
And if you loved it as much asI did, why not?
(49:10):
While you're here, go ahead,hit the subscribe button, do
yourself a favor.
And then why not do me a favor?
Throw in a review, throw us acouple of stars.
Let's spread a little bit oflove today.
Okay, listen, I love you somuch and I'll talk to you again
very soon.
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