December 21, 2023 • 48 mins
Have you ever wondered if the stars could be your guide through life's tumultuous journey? Evolutionary astrologer Ben Kibby joins us to shed light on how combining astrology with aromatherapy and shamanic practices can illuminate the path to personal mythology and joy. Our conversation veers into the unexpected as we draw parallels between celestial movements and the peculiar technical difficulties, as if Mars itself had a quirky sense of humor about our recording schedule!
From the wrestling mat to the enlightening tenets of Buddhism, Ben's story of identity transformation reveals the powerful shifts that can occur when we step outside societal norms. Ben and I engage in a heartfelt discussion about those moments in life that force us to confront who we are and who we want to become. As we converse about the liberating journey from an athlete in a world of toxic masculinity to someone more attuned to their spiritual awakening, it becomes clear that our greatest defeats may set the stage for our most profound growth.
We wrap up our session pondering soul contracts, the comfort found in the cosmos during times of grief, and how astrology can act as a navigational tool at life's myriad crossroads. Whether you're new to astrology or seeking deeper understanding of your own birth chart, this episode promises to offer a fresh perspective on the cosmic dance between fate and free will. So, join us for an exploration of the skies and the self, and let's discover together how the heavens might reflect our most human experiences.
Work with Ben:
https://www.the-alchemical-soul.com/
Follow Ben:
@the_alchemical_soul
Resources:
https://www.astro.com/horoscope
“You Were Born For This” by Chani Nicholas
Buy your copy of Elena's book "Grieve Outside the Box"
Follow on IG @elenabox
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Ode to Joy podcast, a show where we
talk about joy how do wecultivate it, how do we maintain
it and what are the things thatget in the way.
I'm your host, shamanic DeathDula Alana Box, bringing you
another part of our very specialseries, all about our inner
muse or inner genius, and thisweek we are talking with
(00:21):
evolutionary astrologer BenKibbe.
I hope you enjoy.
Hello everybody, and welcomeback to another episode of the
Ode to Joy podcast.
I'm your host, shamanic DeathDula Alana Box, and I am here
today with my friend Ben Kibbe.
(00:43):
Welcome, ben.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hi Alana, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I'm so happy you're here.
Ben is a friend of mine who Imet during my Shamanic
apprenticeship with Jan Lucier,a very, very special human who
I've also done two episodes withon the podcast.
You can go and check those outfor sure.
A little bit about Ben he's anevolutionary astrologer and he
(01:08):
also weaves aromatherapy intoeverything he does and
integrates it into his astrologypractice.
He's also a fellow student ofShamanic practices and he's also
really into mythology andstudying people's stories, which
I'm also very much into, and hewas just sharing, before we got
on the call, that he'sinterested in how we grapple
(01:31):
with really our own personalmythology, which is sort of like
the whole name of the game here, the whole sort of what I'm
really feeling juicy about andwhat I'm really excited about.
So I'm really excited to getinto this conversation with you
today, ben.
Thank you so much for coming.
Really excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
We're getting into it now, y'all.
So I always love to have myguests just tune us into where
they are on the planet at thismoment.
So can you let our listenerknow where are you joining us
from today?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I'm from a small rural town in Connecticut called
Grambi, so northeast of theUnited States.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Wonderful.
We love that.
We love that.
And we met when we were at JanLucier's apprenticeship.
She was in South Hadley, whichis that whole area is just very,
very, very cute.
I love going up there.
It's beautiful.
Yeah, the valley is beautiful.
You're not too?
Yeah, it's beautiful.
What do they call it?
The Happy Valley?
Yeah, do they call it I don'tknow?
Yeah, I think they do.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, it's the valley or the Happy Valley, I'm not
sure.
But yeah, just you know tons offorest, tons of streams and
gorges.
Yeah, it's a beautiful country.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
We love a good gorge, so I'd love for you to tune us
in.
So we had some little technicaldifficulties.
Can you fill us in right now,like what's happening in the
stars at this moment?
We are recording this right now, on December 17th, so we're
about to head into the wintersolstice.
(03:02):
It's sort of like a big time onearth right now.
I think we just started Mercuryretrograde.
It feels like there's a lot ofstuff going on in the stars
right now.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So I mean, mercury retrograde is definitely part of
it, but what's reallyinteresting we can start with a
little astrology lesson is that?
So in astrology, you have thezodiac and then you have
something called houses, and thehouses represent the different
sections of the sky, and rightabove us, so at the zenith of
(03:33):
the sun's peak, is the 10thhouse, and this represents what
we're doing right now.
It's where you're most public,it's where you're putting
yourself out there for publicscrutiny, so it represents our
career, podcasts, that kind ofthing.
And what's interesting is thatright at this moment when we
started the podcast, we haveMars, which is the most negative
(03:59):
or challenging, malefic,difficult planet, difficult
energy.
Mars is an energy that causesdisruptions and breakdowns, and
so it's just interesting thatwe're trying to do this podcast
right now, and I would sayotherwise, there are a lot of
positive indications that thisis going to go great, but there
(04:20):
is that.
There is that energy that I waskind of like huh, I was curious
how that was going to play out,because I did check that before
we started and then, all of asudden, we started having
technical difficulties.
So, yeah, pretty funny.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
I love that.
I love that.
Well, it's just so interestingtoo, because I feel like, for
people who are new to astrology,I feel like maybe there's sort
of like this I don't knowmisconception Maybe.
I'm curious to hear what yourexperience has been, where maybe
they're afraid of kind oftuning into it, because they
don't want to feel as if theytheir entire lives how do I say
(04:58):
it?
Like are ruled by it, but in away, they are.
How would you say, though, islike the most balanced way to
approach it, because I feel it'ssort of like a good kind of
reference point to be like okay,so I don't need to be afraid to
leave my house, you know, everyday, because the stars are
aligned in a certain way, butyou know how can I kind of use
it as a framework for my life.
So what's your experience withthat?
(05:19):
Such, yeah, such a goodquestion.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
You know it's, it's, it's this conversation to fate
and free will is is reallycomplicated.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
People have only been pondering it for thousands of
years.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, yeah, and you know we're not any closer to the
truth, I don't think, but I wasjust thinking about this today
of just like yeah, you know, Iwould never want astrology to
dictate whether or not I have agood day today, or whether I'm
in like a good mental state,like kind of how I set the tone
for the day, and so I don'tthink, I don't think that is
(05:53):
what astrology is about.
Because, you know, we all know,though, that there are
difficulties life bringsdifficulties and challenges, and
there are some days that bringup conflict and bring up
obstacles, and other days thatflow really nicely.
You know where there's justlike miraculous interactions and
(06:14):
you know it just seems likeleft and right, you're just
being hit by, you know,opportunities and fun
experiences, and so I think thatthat is what astrology is
describing.
It's not describing how youreact to those situations.
So, ultimately, ultimately, Ithink it can be.
(06:34):
It can be really helpful,because I also don't want to be
scared when I see something inastrology that looks like a
challenge.
You know, like we're getting onthis podcast.
I don't want to see that like,oh my God, mars is in the 10th
house, so this is going to gohorribly Right.
It's just like, oh Interesting,that's something we're going to
(06:58):
have to navigate.
It can just be something thatyou kind of, I think, approach
with curiosity.
More than anything is toapproach those things that
indicate negative experienceswith a kind of curiosity as to
just what the lesson might be orwhat you might be able to, how
(07:19):
you might be able to grow orlearn through those experiences.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, I love that, I love that perspective.
So I'd love to gear us in thedirection of talking with you
really about how you came tothis moment in your life, where
you're, I mean just for ourlistener.
Can you just let us know howold are you, ben Kibbe, today?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
22.
I'm about to turn 23 in January.
I'm an Aquarius.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
He's an Aquarius and he's so young.
I love that you are one ofthese people who I'm so excited
to have met, because you reallyembody so much wisdom for your
young age, which I don't know.
I'm sort of curious Do you feelyoung or do you feel like an
old soul?
How does that land for you?
(08:13):
Because I remember when I wasyour age and people were like,
wow, you're so mature, I waslike, yeah, because I've been
through hell and back like youwould me too.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, my inner child has needed some healing.
So I feel like I do thinksometimes that I'm sort of in a
reverse process of kind ofbringing out my inner child more
because of my upbringing andhow I grew up.
But yeah.
(08:41):
I don't know.
I mean, it's just kind of beenan instinctual calling that has
kind of like gotten mepassionately involved in wisdom
traditions, and a lot of it hasyet to be fully integrated and
embodied.
I'm still living at my mom'shouse, I'm still well on my way
(09:04):
into feeling like an adult, butI've just been consuming this
stuff for raciously since theend of high school, and so it's
an interesting thing to balancethose things, to have that
perception when you're sittingdown with people twice your age
(09:26):
as an astrologer and you'retalking about their life and
maybe it sounds like you have alot of wisdom, but you're still
figuring it out just like theyare.
So yeah, I don't know if thatanswers your questions.
Yeah, I think it does.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I think it's just.
It is fascinating because Ifeel like the thing that used to
really frustrate me when I wasyounger was I did hold a lot of
wisdom because of what I hadgone through at a very young age
and perhaps, like you too, I atleast had to grow up very, very
quickly.
So, like you, I was also a bitof like a Benjamin, benjamin
(10:03):
Button, ben Kibbe, where laterin my twenties and even now like
even now I'm 30s I feel likeI'm more hopeful and more
playful than I ever was, becausewhen I was a teenager I sort of
like I would go to school inlike a business suit and high
heels and people would be likeexcuse me, you can't enter this
building, and I'd be like I'm 15.
I had to grow up really, reallyfast.
(10:28):
So it's kind of fun in that way.
And then I think also I think abig mistake that perhaps people
make when speaking with youngerpeople is that just because you
have sort of like a how do I saya shorter time span, just in
terms of years of likeexperience, doesn't mean that
you have any less wisdom.
And I think, like what you saidof sharing with people who are
(10:50):
twice your age like it's.
I think it's really importantfor people at any age to, I
think, respect the story ofpeople because, yeah, I think,
especially what you share andwhat you offer comes from a
place of what I have found andwhat you have shared, of deep
study and deep understanding ofmany of these ideas and also
just staying curious too.
(11:11):
I think that's the fun part toois that you're still like in
the I don't know, not want tosay the beginning, but like
you're in it.
You're in it right now and it'sexciting and it's fresh.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So yeah, go ahead If it forces everyone to get to
just like be, you know, to justkind of get their egos out of
the way.
And I really appreciated thepeople in my life who've managed
to do that, and I respect thema ton for having the humility to
sit down with someone who'ssignificantly younger and like
(11:44):
hear what they have to say,because, because I think with
astrology, you know, like itisn't, it isn't coming from me
Like it is, it is the wisdom ofthe planets and the stars, and
so I think that's what helps meas well is, you know, knowing
that I'm not a, you know, aperson's counselor or therapist,
just knowing what I'mpassionate about, which is
(12:06):
learning people's stories.
And then you know, like I'vejust been studying this material
and you know I'm interested inpeople like yourself, like
Joseph Campbell, who are about,you know, living your personal
myth, and it's all information,and so it really has nothing to
do with me and how I'm living mylife and what I still have to
(12:29):
integrate and learn, and youknow the parts of myself that
I'm still needing to work on.
You know, it's just it'sinformation and it's just kind
of making information availableand yeah, yeah, so that's kind
of how I've been, that's howI've kind of grappled with it,
because it is I have struggledwith a lot of insecurity,
(12:49):
stepping into this role as asyoung as I am.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, Well, I'd love for you to sort of tune us into
your own personal myth, becausewhat I know of you, at least in
your past, of when you wereyounger, what I know is that you
were an athlete, and I meanit's just so interesting to sort
of I'd love to hear about thatevolution for you and you know,
(13:14):
and to sort of frame it in termsof like, when was it that you
sort of first came into contactwith what I like to think of as
like the internal muse, theinternal genius or whatever that
is of that like driving sort offactor, of sort of interest in
this?
Yeah, bring us along for thejourney.
When did that first kind ofbegin for you?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
And, and yeah, tell us a story.
Well, you know, I mean, lookingback, I guess I've always had a
passion for storytellingbecause as a kid I loved writing
and I would just write storiesin my free time for fun and that
was kind of my creative outletas a kid.
And yeah, you know, over thepast decade I've done a complete
(13:56):
180 in my identity, at least onthe surface, because for most
of my youth I was intenselyinvolved in sports, mostly
wrestling, though I also playedAmerican football, and that that
was my life and it was a very,you know, intense, I would say
like toxic, toxically masculineenvironment At least that's how
(14:20):
it would look to most peoplefrom the outside looking in.
And so, yeah, just like a verydifferent, I would say like I
really internalized this andkind of like took that on as my
identity for a while, though itwas always.
It was always very strange,because I never fit in socially
to these groups.
I always felt a lot of socialanxiety, a ton of insecurity,
(14:44):
and then there'd be these likeweird breakout moments
throughout my life where I wassort of like breaking out of
that mold, finding my internalmuse, without really knowing
that I was doing that.
So, for example, like sometimesI'd like I would like dress in
drag for school photos inHalloween, like I would for
Halloween.
(15:05):
I would dress as a woman and Iloved I always loved hanging out
with my female friends.
Like I felt way morecomfortable socially hanging out
in those circles and so thereare sort of these hints at this
other part of myself, but Ididn't really know.
All I knew is that it feltimmensely liberating and fun and
(15:26):
freeing when I did it and veryempowering Like it felt very
empowering to sort of likecommand that attention and like
confusion and just kind of likeembody it around these kids who
knew me as you know, a footballand wrestler and are just like
what the hell?
And so I would say that's kindof how it started.
(15:50):
And eventually in high school,my junior year, there are just
some fateful events where I hada really tragic defeat in
wrestling my junior year and thefollowing year I had a season
ending injury at the beginningof the year, and during this
(16:10):
time period I also discoveredBuddhism, particularly Tecna Han
and Joseph Campbell.
This was an insane identitycrisis, like the year between my
junior and senior year.
My heart was no longer in thesport.
I was grappling with Buddhistphilosophy, which was like so,
(16:34):
so different from what I hadgrown up with, and it was just
so refreshing, so made so muchsense to me.
But I was really struggling to,you know, I guess, bridge this
like Buddhist philosophy ofpeace and non-attachment with
this like wrestling mentality oflike success and victory and
(16:57):
sacrifice and domination, youknow, and that made it really
really almost impossible tocontinue doing what I was doing.
And then I manifested a seasonending injury.
I don't think a lot of peoplerealize that, but that my
(17:17):
wrestling story ends with mepraying at the beginning of the
season before big tournament,wrestling the defending New
England champion, all theseexpectations that you know,
maybe I'll win a statechampionship this year and I was
praying.
I was like please I don't knowif I was praying to God or what,
but I was like, please, takeout my knee.
(17:39):
Is it like please?
Just like do anything?
Like please end it here, liketake out my knee.
And that match I tore my ACL.
Yeah yeah, that'll do it.
That'll do it.
So that was my first experienceof manifestation there.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
It's interesting I know a fellow, another athlete,
who you know was playingcompetitive tennis and was quite
, you know, kind of on that likepro track, and very similarly
went through something elsewhere she was like, yeah, I
manifested it because Iliterally could not go on any
longer.
So, yeah, well, that'll do it,I guess.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, the split in conscience was just was too
strong at that point.
But yeah, that freed me.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And so then, after this injury, was that a moment
where you then dove more deeplyinto these studies.
And when did when did it cometo astrology for you?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Right, astrology Astrology happened my freshman
year of college and it was justkind of a part of the lingo,
like I don't know if you'refamiliar with the big three, if
you've heard of that concept,but it's an astrology concept
that refers to your sun sign,moon sign and sun sign, Of
course, and that was kind ofjust like part of the language
(18:55):
at the college I was at and Iwas completely unfamiliar with
it.
I was aware that I was anAquarius, but my best friend was
super into it and I actuallymet it with like a lot of
skepticism at first.
Funny enough, like I didn'tlike it, Very kind of like
skeptical, and I was like whatthe hell is this?
And people I didn't like, Ididn't like the stereotyping and
(19:18):
I didn't like being.
You know, I was an Aquarius anda Capricorn and I felt like
people didn't trust me becauseof that for some reason, and
people thought I'd be, you know,too stern and cold kind of the
old man I guess archetypes, andso I was just like I didn't, I
didn't resonate with what peoplewere telling me, but I suppose
(19:39):
there is enough that made mecurious and I started to do my
own research and I started, assoon as I started doing that and
diving deeper than it, I waslike just so many, Just so many
aha moments.
And then the deeper I dove, themore clear the picture became.
You know, like the more kind ofdetail I got into, the more I
(20:01):
was seeing just like how, howamazing it was.
In describing who it was that Iam, I would say like it helped
me a lot through the identitycrisis that I was going through.
In that transition phase that Iwas in between two selves, I
would say astrology reallyhelped me embody or accept that
(20:24):
new person that I was becoming,and it also helped me integrate
the old person that I was aswell by giving me a language
that was like, oh, like, that'swhy that's a part of my
personality, or that's why I actlike that or, you know, enjoy
those things.
So it was.
It was tremendously helpful forme.
And then it wasn't long untilCOVID hit my freshman year and I
(20:50):
would say that's that's when Ireally started to dive deeper.
And then, not long after that,I dropped out of college and
just kind of made it my fulltime path, studying it and
starting to practice on friendsand family.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, I am curious if you're, if you're willing to go
here with me.
I'm curious to hear in terms ofyour sort of heroes journey
where this kind of all plays out, if you're willing to share
about the loss that youexperienced and the grief that
you went through and sort of howthat kind of played into
(21:26):
discovering these tools.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, so, yeah, so during during COVID, two or
three days after Thanksgiving,my dad passed away in a really
horrific, unexpected motorcycleaccident and so it just just
really was shocking and painful,obviously.
(21:49):
And I would say that initiallyastrology wasn't much because of
what I knew about astrology atthis point, it wasn't much help,
simply because I wasn't lookingat transits at that time.
I wasn't, I was kind of justlooking at the birth chart and I
wasn't looking at like what wasgoing on in the sky.
And so I would say, you know,for that loss in particular,
(22:14):
what was really interesting, howastrology started to play into
that was months or even a yearlater, when I started studying
ancient astrology and gettinginto these techniques of
studying fate and fortune, andthat that was kind of like a
deepening of, I suppose, myworldview just being shattered,
(22:38):
because with the natal chart,with the birth chart, there's
like, okay, maybe, maybe we'rejust like projecting ourselves
onto this random map of symbolsand you know it's reflecting
ourselves back to us somehow.
But once I started getting intohow ancient astrologers
(22:58):
practiced this, then you getit's really it was about
especially an ancient Greece andmedieval times concrete
prediction, and that's when itstarts getting really weird,
interesting yeah, reallyinteresting where you start like
having the power to predictthings that maybe you don't want
to predict or want to know.
(23:19):
And it's very real.
And you know, that's when Istarted looking at my dad's
chart a lot and I startedlooking at the events around his
death and it was just, it wasjust very clear.
It was really helpful, I wouldsay, in understanding my dad on
a deeper level as someone whostruggled with a lot of mental
health problems.
(23:40):
You know we'll never he nevergot a diagnosis, but you know,
we know, we know he struggled,we know that he struggled to
talk about the things that hewas struggling with, and so it
was really helpful and beautifulto see his path and see his
struggles reflected, to see myown struggles, kind of like,
(24:04):
through him and seeing how I hadinherited certain ideas or
beliefs, and then just seeingthis thing, this event, as
something that I don't know Idon't know if I want to call it
faded, like, if that was like,but to a certain degree it was
(24:24):
and it kind of showed itself tobe this thing that in some way
was, was mirrored and and yeah,I suppose in my dad's case, was
something that was liberating ina way, or at least you know my
my indicate a possibility thatit didn't end with that, that
(24:47):
you know we sort of come in inthis lifetime with certain work
to do and there are certainevents in our life that are
faded based off of the work thatwe need to to do in this
lifetime, and you know itdoesn't necessarily end with our
death.
I mean, in astrology there areparts of the chart that sort of
(25:09):
show us maybe where we're comingfrom in previous lifetimes and
what our soul is growing into.
And so, yeah, I mean those,those factors at least, like
help me grapple with theunfairness of that situation.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
It's very interesting that you present this idea
because it's something that Ihad never really tuned into
before in terms of sort oflooking at these events in my
life that were, well, you could,you could, I'm sure, do it for
anything positive or perceived,you know, perceived positive,
perceived negative, or sort ofthese events that were
(25:45):
devastating, right, is that?
Perhaps there was a sense of it.
You know, I do firmly believethat we receive the lessons that
were meant to receive in thislife.
My perspective is that it'salmost like for the, for our own
soul, evolution, right.
And so I kind of take thisperspective of like all right,
you know, not necessarily to putmyself in dangerous situations
(26:07):
on purpose, but to a degree I'mlike, okay, so what's going to
challenge me to grow?
And where are these sort ofplaces in which my, my ego is
getting triggered or old woundsare getting triggered, and how
can I kind of like, yeah, workthrough it, push into it in a
way, yeah, yeah, I mean that as.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
So, you know, as an evolutionary astrologer, that's
definitely the perspective thatI've always taken with astrology
from the beginning, and I'mjust kind of like ended up
finding the astrologers and thetype of astrology that resonates
with me and that's taking thisevolutionary perspective, which
I think is just kind of, I mean,that is, that is life, life is,
(26:49):
is evolution.
You know the universe and lifeon earth, and what we know about
life in the universe is thatthere is, there does seem to be
this like progressive growth andconsciousness, and so, whether
you experience positive thingsor difficult things in your life
(27:09):
, you can rest assured that, onsome greater scale, whatever it
is you are going through in yourlife is contributing to
something greater than yourself,is contributing to our learning
and our growth, and so I thinkthat is really an empowering way
to look at astrology and to tolook at our lives.
(27:33):
You know, even even the stuffthat is really painful is to
look at it.
As you know, even if you don'tlike thinking that maybe it's
something that you chose foryourself, at least seeing it as
you know, maybe not your ego,but but maybe your higher self,
you know, maybe that as asconsciousness, maybe you did
choose all of these lifeexperiences because, because
(27:56):
it's necessary for for us, forhumans, to learn to grow, even
the most you know tragic eventsthat someone can imagine.
I mean, yeah, it's horrible andunspeakable and it's, it's a
reality that unfortunatelyexists and, you know, hopefully
we can learn from it and growfrom it as a species, as people.
(28:24):
So, yeah, I think that is reallyhealing and empowering if first
you just acknowledge whatsomeone has been through and not
try to First you just have tosit with it.
I think and that's the hardestpart, as an astrologer, as a
person, I think that you hearsomething that's really painful
and you want to just explain itaway or immediately jump to.
(28:47):
Well, this was the meaning ofthat or the highest purpose of
that.
And people aren't ready to hearthat right away, rightfully so.
But I think at a certain stageit is helpful and for people to
see that, wow, maybe my life hasbeen full of tragedy, but maybe
(29:09):
that makes me really special insome way and makes my life
really significant.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, I love that perspective.
You know it can be sort of likea tough pill to swallow in some
respects for some people.
I really loved the book Do youKnow?
Soul Contracts by Carolyn Miss.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I've heard of it, but I know, but I haven't heard
that one.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, it's a good one .
It's sort of that kind ofperspective of the idea that we
sort of have these set oflessons that our soul kind of
like predestines or plans tohave within each lifetime.
And then there's certain othersouls that we kind of come into
contract with, like I'm going tofall in love with you, like
you're going to betray me, I'mgoing to, you know, all the good
(29:53):
things and all the bad thingsbe kind of like predestined.
This is the idea, yeah.
But I also really like thatidea of like yeah, that our
souls are going to go throughthese sort of trials.
I think it's sort of I think ofit in terms of like, all of
this is just consciousness,experiencing consciousness, and
it's kind of like anything thathappens on this earth is like
God saying like yes, and in thatway also, yeah, it's like we go
(30:15):
through these really horrible,terrible things, but we also go
through these really beautiful,expansive things as well, and
it's sort of all part of this,yeah, expansion of consciousness
.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
I like this idea that I heard recently that you know,
I don't know, it's just a nicethought to think about.
Our time here on earth is thatyou know demigods and gods and
these like higher dimensionalbeings are all like fighting or
kind of like trying to get anincarnation on earth, like
(30:48):
they're all dealing with eachother and sort of like fighting
for an earth incarnation.
Because of the qualities thatyour soul can develop here,
anatomy is just like such apowerful idea that there are
gods in these heavenly placesthat envy us because of the pain
and because of the growththat's possible through a short
(31:10):
human life.
You know, rather than seeingthis as like I don't know, a
fallen world, or you know we'reall here because we're sinful
and unworthy.
You know, maybe we're all godsthat got lucky.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
That's how I feel.
I'm like, wow, cool, andthere's so much to experience
too that I'm like, wow, this isgreat.
I mean, it's heartbreaking inso many ways, but there's also
so much beauty as well toexperience, so I'm having a
great time.
I'm curious because I reallylove what you shared about how
looking at our charts andperhaps also our loved ones
(31:46):
charts, perhaps after they'vepassed, and how it can sort of
give us perspective, and yousaid that some people are really
not ready to see it, and see itthat way.
I love that, though I thinkperhaps it would give a lot of
comfort to people who perhapsexperienced sudden loss or, you
know, for any kind of loss.
It's like we eventually come toa point where we're able to kind
(32:07):
of see those things.
Yeah, and I'm curious actually,in that same way, with your
tools, are you able to then lookat someone's chart and kind of
like see the path set beforethem?
And then, when we speak about,you know, free will, are there
certain moments or kind of likechoices?
(32:27):
Say, if somebody's kind of inthis, like fork, you know fork
in the road, kind of moment, areyou able to look at somebody's
chart and be like, okay, so ifyou choose this, it may pan out
in that direction.
Or if you choose this, it maypan out in that direction Like
what, how do we, how can we usethis in terms of like, how we're
living our lives now goingforward?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I think that, yeah, I think that everything in
astrology has its positive andnegative manifestation, like
it's more constructivepossibilities and it's more
negative possibilities.
And so if someone comes for aconsultation and we're looking
into the future of what the nextyear is going to bring, I think
(33:08):
that you can describe to themlike here are the more positive,
constructive manifestations ofthis possibility.
Like here are the energiesinvolved that you can't change,
that is faded in your life.
Like maybe you're, you know,housing situation, maybe you're
moving and you, you know, haveyour, your changing jobs and
(33:28):
your changing homes and you'reencountering this big transition
in your life that in itselfmaybe you can't change, maybe
that's something that is just inthe stars, that is kind of
faded, but then you know,depending on how you react to
that, like here are the positive, here are the positive ways
that that could manifest, andhere here are the difficulties,
(33:50):
here maybe the pitfalls of thatenergy.
And then so yeah and so thenthen you always have free will
in how that, in how you handlethat situation.
You know, whether you, whetheryou flounder, or whether you
take that opportunity as anopening to to grow and to meet
(34:10):
new people and to grow as aperson.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I'm curious, if you could, I could keep thinking of
this tool as as because I justlove that, you also love Joseph
Campbell and then I'm thinkingof it sort of as like this tool
within that, the toolkit ofsomeone on their hero's journey.
And I feel like I run into somany people who are maybe sort
of aware of astrology and maybethey know their big three, but
(34:36):
then they're like, well, I kindof I know my big three, I have
like this astrology app, but Ihave no idea what it means.
Could you help our listener ifthey're just tuning into
astrology and they're wanting toput it in their toolkit on
their hero's journey, but theydon't know where to begin, what
would you recommend as sort oflike an intro to get them sort
(35:01):
of, I guess, tuned into theirown chart and all this Like,
what would you recommend forsomeone who's new?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, I first.
I mean, I don't know, itdepends on who you are, but
there's a book recommendationthat I would make that if you
kind of are a beginner and havelike a really, really basic or
maybe even no understanding atall, let's see I might have the
book behind me.
It doesn't look like it, soI'll actually look that up right
(35:28):
now while we talk.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
but the other.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I mean I would just so I would go on to astrocom is
the website that I would use tofind your birth chart.
I would definitely.
I would try to get away from Iwouldn't not use co-star, but I
would try to find an app andmaybe co-star has this now that
(35:51):
gives you the circular birthchart.
I know, when I use co-star,when I first started out, it
just gave me a list of theplanets and what sign they were
in.
So I would first use like anastrology website.
So astrocom is a good one and Iwould just start.
(36:12):
You know, you just take it.
You just take it one planet ata time and there are four main
components of a birth chart thatyou want to look at.
So there are the planets, thereare the signs, there are the
houses and there are the aspects.
And when you're just startingout maybe you just want to look
(36:32):
up.
You know each of the planets intheir zodiac signs.
So what does the sun andAquarius mean?
What does the moon and Piscesmean?
What does Mercury and Virgomean?
So on and so forth.
The planets are the who in thechart.
The planets are the pantheon ofgods and goddesses that we find
(36:53):
in mythologies and storiesacross the world.
They are as Joseph Campbell putit, they're the
personifications of nature.
They're the force of desire andwill and thought and feeling.
You know that's Mars, the sun,mercury and the moon.
So they are sort of like thepeople inside of us.
(37:14):
Those are the planets.
And then the zodiac signs arethe how.
How does your moon?
How do your feelings expressthemselves?
Do they express?
You know, like kind of like,what do you need for your
emotional nurturance?
Are you a Capricorn?
Do you need structure anddiscipline and goal setting, or
(37:36):
are you someone who really needslike a close, intimate group of
friends and like, obviously weboth have a little bit of these
things in all of us.
But that's kind of how theplanets operate.
So that's the who, the how.
And then you have houses, whichis where houses are, where in
your life, the different likeaspects of life, our family, our
(37:58):
career, our relationships,traveling, you know the sort of
like different places of life,you know your planets will
operate, will kind of like havemore influence over certain
parts of your life as well.
And then the last component isaspects, which is the
relationships between theplanets and how they interact
(38:21):
with one another.
So, for example, if you want tolearn about your sun sign,
first, I'm an Aquarius Sun.
So first I'm just going to lookup, you know, sun and Aquarius
and you just see, you know thereare all kinds of astrology
websites that will give youdifferent definitions and you'll
take what you can gather fromthat.
And then you look up the Sunand the second house and it's
(38:45):
like, okay, so you know myvalues and like the second house
has to do with our resourcesand our values, and so you know
there's kind of like acombination of that house and
Aquarius.
And then the third thing youwould look up to understand your
sun sign is what planets are inrelationship to your sun sign.
(39:07):
So maybe you have Neptune rightnext to your sun and so Neptune
, being the planet of mysticism,is going to heavily influence
your sun.
Or you know your purpose andyou know this all sounds really
confusing right now because wedon't have like a physical image
but the birth chart, the birthchart will show you.
(39:28):
You'll see that, okay, my sun'sin Aquarius, it's in the second
house, and then you'll seethese angles, these lines being
drawn between the planets, andthose are the aspects.
So you'll be able to see likeoh, there's a line between
Jupiter and the sun.
So you know, when I'm thinkingabout my sun sign, you have to
(39:50):
include Jupiter and what Jupitermeans as a part of your life's
purpose or hero's journey.
That's the last thing that I'llsay about our hero's journey is
that that's our sun.
Our sun sign is what peopletypically think of as their
zodiac sign, the zodiac signthat you were born under.
That's your sun sign.
That's where the sun was whenyou were born, and the sun
(40:13):
doesn't necessarily haveanything to do with your
personality and that's wherepeople.
That's one of the mainmisconceptions, I think.
An astrology is sun signastrology.
It doesn't have to do with yourpersonality.
Sometimes it can, depending,but what it really represents is
your hero's journey.
So, Alana, what's your sun sign?
(40:35):
I'm a Virgo, you're a Virgo, soVirgo, you know I mean it could
play into your personality andthe stereotypes personality
stereotypes with Virgo have todo with, you know, being
meticulous and being aperfectionist and they're very
detail oriented.
They're good at, like, fixingand arranging things, and so you
(40:57):
know that doesn't necessarilymean that you're going to be
like this type A personality,but it means that your your arc
in this lifetime, your hero'sjourney is going to have to do
with Virgo's archetype, virgo'sstory and the ability to bring
(41:20):
spirit into matter, which iswhat what Virgo is about, being
opposite Pisces.
It's really about you know, howdo we create a structure using
the earth, using the earthelement and materiality?
How do we, how do we arrangethings the right way to make
(41:41):
spirit come to life through form?
I never knew that and I lovethat yeah it's much better,
right, like people, if people,if people, if only people knew
that, you know it's, it's, it'sso much, it's so much easier.
Like my mom is an Aries son andshe's not hard-headed or
(42:01):
aggressive or stubborn or any ofthe Aries stereotypes, but her
life's arc, her life's journey,has absolutely had to do with
embodying.
You know her autonomy and herindividuality and you know
living from her instinctual,spontaneous nature.
You know like it's not so muchabout you know what you act like
(42:24):
, it's more about your, yourstory of you know learning how
to manifest this particularenergy into your life.
So that's the sun sign, it'syour hero's journey, basically.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I've always heard that it was like our sun, our,
our how do I say our moon signwas sort of like our internal
emotional space, and then ourrising sign was how the world,
or like sort of like an outwardprojection of like how we
present ourselves to the worldand how the world sees us.
Is that accurate from yourperspective, or what do you
(42:59):
think about?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
that, yeah, yeah, I think that's so.
I mean, I think the ascendantsign so how people see us,
that's your personality.
So your ascendant signdefinitely has more to do with
what you act like.
It's.
It's your mask, for a lack of abetter word, and everyone has
one, everyone has a persona, andthat's it also.
(43:20):
The ascendant also has to dowith, like, your kind of like
approach to life.
So, yeah, and then the moon hasto do with our like internal
and like habitual self.
Has to do with things that arelike what's what's what's what's
your comfort zone, what's kindof like what is your habitual
way of behaving, kind of how youact and move through the world
(43:44):
on a daily basis, and then sothe sun is more like what's this
overarching purpose?
And I like to use how you know,the moon reflects the sun's
light, so the sun is yourpurpose, and then the moon
reflects that purpose, and soyour moon sign has to do with
how are you manifesting thatpurpose.
(44:05):
Has to do with, like, how areyou moving through the world as
a person, you know?
So yeah, Very cool.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I'm excited.
This, I mean, I think it'sfascinating and I feel like it's
just like we're saying in thebeginning of our conversation
it's just a good tool to have inyour toolkit To give
perspective on your life.
So so much more than I'minterested in, and we may have
to do a part two and a partthree because I have more
questions, but in interest oftime, I'd like to wrap it up and
(44:35):
I'm gonna.
I'm curious is there?
How can people get in touchwith you?
How can people work with you?
Do you have anythinginteresting coming up that you'd
like to let people know about?
Speaker 2 (44:48):
yeah, so my my website is the dash alchemical
dash soul dot com.
The alchemical soul is mybusiness name.
My Instagram is the same thing,but it's the underscore
alchemical, underscore soul andyou know you can find wings,
(45:11):
links to my, my calendar andJust like videos and stuff that
I'm creating.
And then the one thing thatcomes to mind that may be of
interest to people is a classthat I'm teaching on February
4th at Serenity yoga andwellness in South Hadley.
It's going to be a three hourlecture on how to read your
(45:33):
birth chart.
So there you go.
I mean really just scratch thesurface here.
So if you like what you heardand you want to know how to
interpret your birth chart andget like a step by step guidance
of how to do that for yourselfand others, I'll be teaching a
class on February 4th, I believe, one o'clock at Serenity yoga
(45:54):
and wellness in South Hadley.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Fantastic.
Well, I'll definitely includeall of the links in the show
notes.
So, if our listeners interestedin getting in touch with you, I
think I mean, probably it wouldbe so wonderful to do a reading
with you, and so it'll all bein the show notes for a listener
who's interested in it, andwill also include the
information for the event, whichalso sounds super juicy.
(46:17):
And, yeah, I'm just excited foreverything that you're sharing
and how you're letting yourinternal genius come out into
the world, and it's, it's such apleasure to know you and to,
yeah, just witness you steppinginto this wisdom.
So, thank you so much forsharing your voice.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Would you mind if I also sharedthe book that I mentioned?
I would love it.
I think I found it okay, so allright.
So it's by a Shani, I thinkthat's how you pronounce her
name, shani Nicholas it's called.
You were born for thisastrology radical self
acceptance.
So yeah, there you go we loveChani.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
She's great.
She also has an app that myfriend has, but I don't have it
apparently.
It's quite good, she's awesomeyeah, she's great.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
She's definitely trusted, astrologer.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah well, that's the thing too, I would say, is find
someone that you trust, thatyou resonate with.
I think that's the mostimportant on the journey of
tuning into your astrologyabsolutely wonderful, thank you.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show, ben Kibbie.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Yeah, this is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Thanks for having me well, dear listener, I hope you
have enjoyed this conversationas much as I have.
This has been another episodeof the ode to joy podcast.
Thank you so much for tuninginto this latest episode, dear
listener, and if you enjoyed it,why not go ahead?
Hit the subscribe button?
And while you're there, why notthrow in a couple of stars
(47:43):
maybe two, maybe three, maybefour, maybe five and also write
us a review?
I would love to hear how youare receiving these
conversations.
It is my sincere pleasure tobring you these episodes every
week, sending you so much love,and I'll talk to you again very
soon.
Welcome to the Ode to Joy podcast, a show where we
talk about joy how do wecultivate it, how do we maintain
it and what are the things thatget in the way.
I'm your host, shamanic DeathDula Alana Box, bringing you
another part of our very specialseries, all about our inner
muse or inner genius, and thisweek we are talking with
(00:21):
evolutionary astrologer BenKibbe.
I hope you enjoy.
Hello everybody, and welcomeback to another episode of the
Ode to Joy podcast.
I'm your host, shamanic DeathDula Alana Box, and I am here
today with my friend Ben Kibbe.
(00:43):
Welcome, ben.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hi Alana, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I'm so happy you're here.
Ben is a friend of mine who Imet during my Shamanic
apprenticeship with Jan Lucier,a very, very special human who
I've also done two episodes withon the podcast.
You can go and check those outfor sure.
A little bit about Ben he's anevolutionary astrologer and he
(01:08):
also weaves aromatherapy intoeverything he does and
integrates it into his astrologypractice.
He's also a fellow student ofShamanic practices and he's also
really into mythology andstudying people's stories, which
I'm also very much into, and hewas just sharing, before we got
on the call, that he'sinterested in how we grapple
(01:31):
with really our own personalmythology, which is sort of like
the whole name of the game here, the whole sort of what I'm
really feeling juicy about andwhat I'm really excited about.
So I'm really excited to getinto this conversation with you
today, ben.
Thank you so much for coming.
Really excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
We're getting into it now, y'all.
So I always love to have myguests just tune us into where
they are on the planet at thismoment.
So can you let our listenerknow where are you joining us
from today?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I'm from a small rural town in Connecticut called
Grambi, so northeast of theUnited States.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Wonderful.
We love that.
We love that.
And we met when we were at JanLucier's apprenticeship.
She was in South Hadley, whichis that whole area is just very,
very, very cute.
I love going up there.
It's beautiful.
Yeah, the valley is beautiful.
You're not too?
Yeah, it's beautiful.
What do they call it?
The Happy Valley?
Yeah, do they call it I don'tknow?
Yeah, I think they do.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, it's the valley or the Happy Valley, I'm not
sure.
But yeah, just you know tons offorest, tons of streams and
gorges.
Yeah, it's a beautiful country.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
We love a good gorge, so I'd love for you to tune us
in.
So we had some little technicaldifficulties.
Can you fill us in right now,like what's happening in the
stars at this moment?
We are recording this right now, on December 17th, so we're
about to head into the wintersolstice.
(03:02):
It's sort of like a big time onearth right now.
I think we just started Mercuryretrograde.
It feels like there's a lot ofstuff going on in the stars
right now.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So I mean, mercury retrograde is definitely part of
it, but what's reallyinteresting we can start with a
little astrology lesson is that?
So in astrology, you have thezodiac and then you have
something called houses, and thehouses represent the different
sections of the sky, and rightabove us, so at the zenith of
(03:33):
the sun's peak, is the 10thhouse, and this represents what
we're doing right now.
It's where you're most public,it's where you're putting
yourself out there for publicscrutiny, so it represents our
career, podcasts, that kind ofthing.
And what's interesting is thatright at this moment when we
started the podcast, we haveMars, which is the most negative
(03:59):
or challenging, malefic,difficult planet, difficult
energy.
Mars is an energy that causesdisruptions and breakdowns, and
so it's just interesting thatwe're trying to do this podcast
right now, and I would sayotherwise, there are a lot of
positive indications that thisis going to go great, but there
(04:20):
is that.
There is that energy that I waskind of like huh, I was curious
how that was going to play out,because I did check that before
we started and then, all of asudden, we started having
technical difficulties.
So, yeah, pretty funny.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
I love that.
I love that.
Well, it's just so interestingtoo, because I feel like, for
people who are new to astrology,I feel like maybe there's sort
of like this I don't knowmisconception Maybe.
I'm curious to hear what yourexperience has been, where maybe
they're afraid of kind oftuning into it, because they
don't want to feel as if theytheir entire lives how do I say
(04:58):
it?
Like are ruled by it, but in away, they are.
How would you say, though, islike the most balanced way to
approach it, because I feel it'ssort of like a good kind of
reference point to be like okay,so I don't need to be afraid to
leave my house, you know, everyday, because the stars are
aligned in a certain way, butyou know how can I kind of use
it as a framework for my life.
So what's your experience withthat?
(05:19):
Such, yeah, such a goodquestion.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
You know it's, it's, it's this conversation to fate
and free will is is reallycomplicated.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
People have only been pondering it for thousands of
years.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, yeah, and you know we're not any closer to the
truth, I don't think, but I wasjust thinking about this today
of just like yeah, you know, Iwould never want astrology to
dictate whether or not I have agood day today, or whether I'm
in like a good mental state,like kind of how I set the tone
for the day, and so I don'tthink, I don't think that is
(05:53):
what astrology is about.
Because, you know, we all know,though, that there are
difficulties life bringsdifficulties and challenges, and
there are some days that bringup conflict and bring up
obstacles, and other days thatflow really nicely.
You know where there's justlike miraculous interactions and
(06:14):
you know it just seems likeleft and right, you're just
being hit by, you know,opportunities and fun
experiences, and so I think thatthat is what astrology is
describing.
It's not describing how youreact to those situations.
So, ultimately, ultimately, Ithink it can be.
(06:34):
It can be really helpful,because I also don't want to be
scared when I see something inastrology that looks like a
challenge.
You know, like we're getting onthis podcast.
I don't want to see that like,oh my God, mars is in the 10th
house, so this is going to gohorribly Right.
It's just like, oh Interesting,that's something we're going to
(06:58):
have to navigate.
It can just be something thatyou kind of, I think, approach
with curiosity.
More than anything is toapproach those things that
indicate negative experienceswith a kind of curiosity as to
just what the lesson might be orwhat you might be able to, how
(07:19):
you might be able to grow orlearn through those experiences.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, I love that, I love that perspective.
So I'd love to gear us in thedirection of talking with you
really about how you came tothis moment in your life, where
you're, I mean just for ourlistener.
Can you just let us know howold are you, ben Kibbe, today?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
22.
I'm about to turn 23 in January.
I'm an Aquarius.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
He's an Aquarius and he's so young.
I love that you are one ofthese people who I'm so excited
to have met, because you reallyembody so much wisdom for your
young age, which I don't know.
I'm sort of curious Do you feelyoung or do you feel like an
old soul?
How does that land for you?
(08:13):
Because I remember when I wasyour age and people were like,
wow, you're so mature, I waslike, yeah, because I've been
through hell and back like youwould me too.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, my inner child has needed some healing.
So I feel like I do thinksometimes that I'm sort of in a
reverse process of kind ofbringing out my inner child more
because of my upbringing andhow I grew up.
But yeah.
(08:41):
I don't know.
I mean, it's just kind of beenan instinctual calling that has
kind of like gotten mepassionately involved in wisdom
traditions, and a lot of it hasyet to be fully integrated and
embodied.
I'm still living at my mom'shouse, I'm still well on my way
(09:04):
into feeling like an adult, butI've just been consuming this
stuff for raciously since theend of high school, and so it's
an interesting thing to balancethose things, to have that
perception when you're sittingdown with people twice your age
(09:26):
as an astrologer and you'retalking about their life and
maybe it sounds like you have alot of wisdom, but you're still
figuring it out just like theyare.
So yeah, I don't know if thatanswers your questions.
Yeah, I think it does.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I think it's just.
It is fascinating because Ifeel like the thing that used to
really frustrate me when I wasyounger was I did hold a lot of
wisdom because of what I hadgone through at a very young age
and perhaps, like you too, I atleast had to grow up very, very
quickly.
So, like you, I was also a bitof like a Benjamin, benjamin
(10:03):
Button, ben Kibbe, where laterin my twenties and even now like
even now I'm 30s I feel likeI'm more hopeful and more
playful than I ever was, becausewhen I was a teenager I sort of
like I would go to school inlike a business suit and high
heels and people would be likeexcuse me, you can't enter this
building, and I'd be like I'm 15.
I had to grow up really, reallyfast.
(10:28):
So it's kind of fun in that way.
And then I think also I think abig mistake that perhaps people
make when speaking with youngerpeople is that just because you
have sort of like a how do I saya shorter time span, just in
terms of years of likeexperience, doesn't mean that
you have any less wisdom.
And I think, like what you saidof sharing with people who are
(10:50):
twice your age like it's.
I think it's really importantfor people at any age to, I
think, respect the story ofpeople because, yeah, I think,
especially what you share andwhat you offer comes from a
place of what I have found andwhat you have shared, of deep
study and deep understanding ofmany of these ideas and also
just staying curious too.
(11:11):
I think that's the fun part toois that you're still like in
the I don't know, not want tosay the beginning, but like
you're in it.
You're in it right now and it'sexciting and it's fresh.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So yeah, go ahead If it forces everyone to get to
just like be, you know, to justkind of get their egos out of
the way.
And I really appreciated thepeople in my life who've managed
to do that, and I respect thema ton for having the humility to
sit down with someone who'ssignificantly younger and like
(11:44):
hear what they have to say,because, because I think with
astrology, you know, like itisn't, it isn't coming from me
Like it is, it is the wisdom ofthe planets and the stars, and
so I think that's what helps meas well is, you know, knowing
that I'm not a, you know, aperson's counselor or therapist,
just knowing what I'mpassionate about, which is
(12:06):
learning people's stories.
And then you know, like I'vejust been studying this material
and you know I'm interested inpeople like yourself, like
Joseph Campbell, who are about,you know, living your personal
myth, and it's all information,and so it really has nothing to
do with me and how I'm living mylife and what I still have to
(12:29):
integrate and learn, and youknow the parts of myself that
I'm still needing to work on.
You know, it's just it'sinformation and it's just kind
of making information availableand yeah, yeah, so that's kind
of how I've been, that's howI've kind of grappled with it,
because it is I have struggledwith a lot of insecurity,
(12:49):
stepping into this role as asyoung as I am.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, Well, I'd love for you to sort of tune us into
your own personal myth, becausewhat I know of you, at least in
your past, of when you wereyounger, what I know is that you
were an athlete, and I meanit's just so interesting to sort
of I'd love to hear about thatevolution for you and you know,
(13:14):
and to sort of frame it in termsof like, when was it that you
sort of first came into contactwith what I like to think of as
like the internal muse, theinternal genius or whatever that
is of that like driving sort offactor, of sort of interest in
this?
Yeah, bring us along for thejourney.
When did that first kind ofbegin for you?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
And, and yeah, tell us a story.
Well, you know, I mean, lookingback, I guess I've always had a
passion for storytellingbecause as a kid I loved writing
and I would just write storiesin my free time for fun and that
was kind of my creative outletas a kid.
And yeah, you know, over thepast decade I've done a complete
(13:56):
180 in my identity, at least onthe surface, because for most
of my youth I was intenselyinvolved in sports, mostly
wrestling, though I also playedAmerican football, and that that
was my life and it was a very,you know, intense, I would say
like toxic, toxically masculineenvironment At least that's how
(14:20):
it would look to most peoplefrom the outside looking in.
And so, yeah, just like a verydifferent, I would say like I
really internalized this andkind of like took that on as my
identity for a while, though itwas always.
It was always very strange,because I never fit in socially
to these groups.
I always felt a lot of socialanxiety, a ton of insecurity,
(14:44):
and then there'd be these likeweird breakout moments
throughout my life where I wassort of like breaking out of
that mold, finding my internalmuse, without really knowing
that I was doing that.
So, for example, like sometimesI'd like I would like dress in
drag for school photos inHalloween, like I would for
Halloween.
(15:05):
I would dress as a woman and Iloved I always loved hanging out
with my female friends.
Like I felt way morecomfortable socially hanging out
in those circles and so thereare sort of these hints at this
other part of myself, but Ididn't really know.
All I knew is that it feltimmensely liberating and fun and
(15:26):
freeing when I did it and veryempowering Like it felt very
empowering to sort of likecommand that attention and like
confusion and just kind of likeembody it around these kids who
knew me as you know, a footballand wrestler and are just like
what the hell?
And so I would say that's kindof how it started.
(15:50):
And eventually in high school,my junior year, there are just
some fateful events where I hada really tragic defeat in
wrestling my junior year and thefollowing year I had a season
ending injury at the beginningof the year, and during this
(16:10):
time period I also discoveredBuddhism, particularly Tecna Han
and Joseph Campbell.
This was an insane identitycrisis, like the year between my
junior and senior year.
My heart was no longer in thesport.
I was grappling with Buddhistphilosophy, which was like so,
(16:34):
so different from what I hadgrown up with, and it was just
so refreshing, so made so muchsense to me.
But I was really struggling to,you know, I guess, bridge this
like Buddhist philosophy ofpeace and non-attachment with
this like wrestling mentality oflike success and victory and
(16:57):
sacrifice and domination, youknow, and that made it really
really almost impossible tocontinue doing what I was doing.
And then I manifested a seasonending injury.
I don't think a lot of peoplerealize that, but that my
(17:17):
wrestling story ends with mepraying at the beginning of the
season before big tournament,wrestling the defending New
England champion, all theseexpectations that you know,
maybe I'll win a statechampionship this year and I was
praying.
I was like please I don't knowif I was praying to God or what,
but I was like, please, takeout my knee.
(17:39):
Is it like please?
Just like do anything?
Like please end it here, liketake out my knee.
And that match I tore my ACL.
Yeah yeah, that'll do it.
That'll do it.
So that was my first experienceof manifestation there.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
It's interesting I know a fellow, another athlete,
who you know was playingcompetitive tennis and was quite
, you know, kind of on that likepro track, and very similarly
went through something elsewhere she was like, yeah, I
manifested it because Iliterally could not go on any
longer.
So, yeah, well, that'll do it,I guess.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, the split in conscience was just was too
strong at that point.
But yeah, that freed me.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And so then, after this injury, was that a moment
where you then dove more deeplyinto these studies.
And when did when did it cometo astrology for you?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Right, astrology Astrology happened my freshman
year of college and it was justkind of a part of the lingo,
like I don't know if you'refamiliar with the big three, if
you've heard of that concept,but it's an astrology concept
that refers to your sun sign,moon sign and sun sign, Of
course, and that was kind ofjust like part of the language
(18:55):
at the college I was at and Iwas completely unfamiliar with
it.
I was aware that I was anAquarius, but my best friend was
super into it and I actuallymet it with like a lot of
skepticism at first.
Funny enough, like I didn'tlike it, Very kind of like
skeptical, and I was like whatthe hell is this?
And people I didn't like, Ididn't like the stereotyping and
(19:18):
I didn't like being.
You know, I was an Aquarius anda Capricorn and I felt like
people didn't trust me becauseof that for some reason, and
people thought I'd be, you know,too stern and cold kind of the
old man I guess archetypes, andso I was just like I didn't, I
didn't resonate with what peoplewere telling me, but I suppose
(19:39):
there is enough that made mecurious and I started to do my
own research and I started, assoon as I started doing that and
diving deeper than it, I waslike just so many, Just so many
aha moments.
And then the deeper I dove, themore clear the picture became.
You know, like the more kind ofdetail I got into, the more I
(20:01):
was seeing just like how, howamazing it was.
In describing who it was that Iam, I would say like it helped
me a lot through the identitycrisis that I was going through.
In that transition phase that Iwas in between two selves, I
would say astrology reallyhelped me embody or accept that
(20:24):
new person that I was becoming,and it also helped me integrate
the old person that I was aswell by giving me a language
that was like, oh, like, that'swhy that's a part of my
personality, or that's why I actlike that or, you know, enjoy
those things.
So it was.
It was tremendously helpful forme.
And then it wasn't long untilCOVID hit my freshman year and I
(20:50):
would say that's that's when Ireally started to dive deeper.
And then, not long after that,I dropped out of college and
just kind of made it my fulltime path, studying it and
starting to practice on friendsand family.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, I am curious if you're, if you're willing to go
here with me.
I'm curious to hear in terms ofyour sort of heroes journey
where this kind of all plays out, if you're willing to share
about the loss that youexperienced and the grief that
you went through and sort of howthat kind of played into
(21:26):
discovering these tools.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, so, yeah, so during during COVID, two or
three days after Thanksgiving,my dad passed away in a really
horrific, unexpected motorcycleaccident and so it just just
really was shocking and painful,obviously.
(21:49):
And I would say that initiallyastrology wasn't much because of
what I knew about astrology atthis point, it wasn't much help,
simply because I wasn't lookingat transits at that time.
I wasn't, I was kind of justlooking at the birth chart and I
wasn't looking at like what wasgoing on in the sky.
And so I would say, you know,for that loss in particular,
(22:14):
what was really interesting, howastrology started to play into
that was months or even a yearlater, when I started studying
ancient astrology and gettinginto these techniques of
studying fate and fortune, andthat that was kind of like a
deepening of, I suppose, myworldview just being shattered,
(22:38):
because with the natal chart,with the birth chart, there's
like, okay, maybe, maybe we'rejust like projecting ourselves
onto this random map of symbolsand you know it's reflecting
ourselves back to us somehow.
But once I started getting intohow ancient astrologers
(22:58):
practiced this, then you getit's really it was about
especially an ancient Greece andmedieval times concrete
prediction, and that's when itstarts getting really weird,
interesting yeah, reallyinteresting where you start like
having the power to predictthings that maybe you don't want
to predict or want to know.
(23:19):
And it's very real.
And you know, that's when Istarted looking at my dad's
chart a lot and I startedlooking at the events around his
death and it was just, it wasjust very clear.
It was really helpful, I wouldsay, in understanding my dad on
a deeper level as someone whostruggled with a lot of mental
health problems.
(23:40):
You know we'll never he nevergot a diagnosis, but you know,
we know, we know he struggled,we know that he struggled to
talk about the things that hewas struggling with, and so it
was really helpful and beautifulto see his path and see his
struggles reflected, to see myown struggles, kind of like,
(24:04):
through him and seeing how I hadinherited certain ideas or
beliefs, and then just seeingthis thing, this event, as
something that I don't know Idon't know if I want to call it
faded, like, if that was like,but to a certain degree it was
(24:24):
and it kind of showed itself tobe this thing that in some way
was, was mirrored and and yeah,I suppose in my dad's case, was
something that was liberating ina way, or at least you know my
my indicate a possibility thatit didn't end with that, that
(24:47):
you know we sort of come in inthis lifetime with certain work
to do and there are certainevents in our life that are
faded based off of the work thatwe need to to do in this
lifetime, and you know itdoesn't necessarily end with our
death.
I mean, in astrology there areparts of the chart that sort of
(25:09):
show us maybe where we're comingfrom in previous lifetimes and
what our soul is growing into.
And so, yeah, I mean those,those factors at least, like
help me grapple with theunfairness of that situation.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
It's very interesting that you present this idea
because it's something that Ihad never really tuned into
before in terms of sort oflooking at these events in my
life that were, well, you could,you could, I'm sure, do it for
anything positive or perceived,you know, perceived positive,
perceived negative, or sort ofthese events that were
(25:45):
devastating, right, is that?
Perhaps there was a sense of it.
You know, I do firmly believethat we receive the lessons that
were meant to receive in thislife.
My perspective is that it'salmost like for the, for our own
soul, evolution, right.
And so I kind of take thisperspective of like all right,
you know, not necessarily to putmyself in dangerous situations
(26:07):
on purpose, but to a degree I'mlike, okay, so what's going to
challenge me to grow?
And where are these sort ofplaces in which my, my ego is
getting triggered or old woundsare getting triggered, and how
can I kind of like, yeah, workthrough it, push into it in a
way, yeah, yeah, I mean that as.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
So, you know, as an evolutionary astrologer, that's
definitely the perspective thatI've always taken with astrology
from the beginning, and I'mjust kind of like ended up
finding the astrologers and thetype of astrology that resonates
with me and that's taking thisevolutionary perspective, which
I think is just kind of, I mean,that is, that is life, life is,
(26:49):
is evolution.
You know the universe and lifeon earth, and what we know about
life in the universe is thatthere is, there does seem to be
this like progressive growth andconsciousness, and so, whether
you experience positive thingsor difficult things in your life
(27:09):
, you can rest assured that, onsome greater scale, whatever it
is you are going through in yourlife is contributing to
something greater than yourself,is contributing to our learning
and our growth, and so I thinkthat is really an empowering way
to look at astrology and to tolook at our lives.
(27:33):
You know, even even the stuffthat is really painful is to
look at it.
As you know, even if you don'tlike thinking that maybe it's
something that you chose foryourself, at least seeing it as
you know, maybe not your ego,but but maybe your higher self,
you know, maybe that as asconsciousness, maybe you did
choose all of these lifeexperiences because, because
(27:56):
it's necessary for for us, forhumans, to learn to grow, even
the most you know tragic eventsthat someone can imagine.
I mean, yeah, it's horrible andunspeakable and it's, it's a
reality that unfortunatelyexists and, you know, hopefully
we can learn from it and growfrom it as a species, as people.
(28:24):
So, yeah, I think that is reallyhealing and empowering if first
you just acknowledge whatsomeone has been through and not
try to First you just have tosit with it.
I think and that's the hardestpart, as an astrologer, as a
person, I think that you hearsomething that's really painful
and you want to just explain itaway or immediately jump to.
(28:47):
Well, this was the meaning ofthat or the highest purpose of
that.
And people aren't ready to hearthat right away, rightfully so.
But I think at a certain stageit is helpful and for people to
see that, wow, maybe my life hasbeen full of tragedy, but maybe
(29:09):
that makes me really special insome way and makes my life
really significant.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, I love that perspective.
You know it can be sort of likea tough pill to swallow in some
respects for some people.
I really loved the book Do youKnow?
Soul Contracts by Carolyn Miss.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I've heard of it, but I know, but I haven't heard
that one.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, it's a good one .
It's sort of that kind ofperspective of the idea that we
sort of have these set oflessons that our soul kind of
like predestines or plans tohave within each lifetime.
And then there's certain othersouls that we kind of come into
contract with, like I'm going tofall in love with you, like
you're going to betray me, I'mgoing to, you know, all the good
(29:53):
things and all the bad thingsbe kind of like predestined.
This is the idea, yeah.
But I also really like thatidea of like yeah, that our
souls are going to go throughthese sort of trials.
I think it's sort of I think ofit in terms of like, all of
this is just consciousness,experiencing consciousness, and
it's kind of like anything thathappens on this earth is like
God saying like yes, and in thatway also, yeah, it's like we go
(30:15):
through these really horrible,terrible things, but we also go
through these really beautiful,expansive things as well, and
it's sort of all part of this,yeah, expansion of consciousness
.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
I like this idea that I heard recently that you know,
I don't know, it's just a nicethought to think about.
Our time here on earth is thatyou know demigods and gods and
these like higher dimensionalbeings are all like fighting or
kind of like trying to get anincarnation on earth, like
(30:48):
they're all dealing with eachother and sort of like fighting
for an earth incarnation.
Because of the qualities thatyour soul can develop here,
anatomy is just like such apowerful idea that there are
gods in these heavenly placesthat envy us because of the pain
and because of the growththat's possible through a short
(31:10):
human life.
You know, rather than seeingthis as like I don't know, a
fallen world, or you know we'reall here because we're sinful
and unworthy.
You know, maybe we're all godsthat got lucky.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
That's how I feel.
I'm like, wow, cool, andthere's so much to experience
too that I'm like, wow, this isgreat.
I mean, it's heartbreaking inso many ways, but there's also
so much beauty as well toexperience, so I'm having a
great time.
I'm curious because I reallylove what you shared about how
looking at our charts andperhaps also our loved ones
(31:46):
charts, perhaps after they'vepassed, and how it can sort of
give us perspective, and yousaid that some people are really
not ready to see it, and see itthat way.
I love that, though I thinkperhaps it would give a lot of
comfort to people who perhapsexperienced sudden loss or, you
know, for any kind of loss.
It's like we eventually come toa point where we're able to kind
(32:07):
of see those things.
Yeah, and I'm curious actually,in that same way, with your
tools, are you able to then lookat someone's chart and kind of
like see the path set beforethem?
And then, when we speak about,you know, free will, are there
certain moments or kind of likechoices?
(32:27):
Say, if somebody's kind of inthis, like fork, you know fork
in the road, kind of moment, areyou able to look at somebody's
chart and be like, okay, so ifyou choose this, it may pan out
in that direction.
Or if you choose this, it maypan out in that direction Like
what, how do we, how can we usethis in terms of like, how we're
living our lives now goingforward?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I think that, yeah, I think that everything in
astrology has its positive andnegative manifestation, like
it's more constructivepossibilities and it's more
negative possibilities.
And so if someone comes for aconsultation and we're looking
into the future of what the nextyear is going to bring, I think
(33:08):
that you can describe to themlike here are the more positive,
constructive manifestations ofthis possibility.
Like here are the energiesinvolved that you can't change,
that is faded in your life.
Like maybe you're, you know,housing situation, maybe you're
moving and you, you know, haveyour, your changing jobs and
(33:28):
your changing homes and you'reencountering this big transition
in your life that in itselfmaybe you can't change, maybe
that's something that is just inthe stars, that is kind of
faded, but then you know,depending on how you react to
that, like here are the positive, here are the positive ways
that that could manifest, andhere here are the difficulties,
(33:50):
here maybe the pitfalls of thatenergy.
And then so yeah and so thenthen you always have free will
in how that, in how you handlethat situation.
You know, whether you, whetheryou flounder, or whether you
take that opportunity as anopening to to grow and to meet
(34:10):
new people and to grow as aperson.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I'm curious, if you could, I could keep thinking of
this tool as as because I justlove that, you also love Joseph
Campbell and then I'm thinkingof it sort of as like this tool
within that, the toolkit ofsomeone on their hero's journey.
And I feel like I run into somany people who are maybe sort
of aware of astrology and maybethey know their big three, but
(34:36):
then they're like, well, I kindof I know my big three, I have
like this astrology app, but Ihave no idea what it means.
Could you help our listener ifthey're just tuning into
astrology and they're wanting toput it in their toolkit on
their hero's journey, but theydon't know where to begin, what
would you recommend as sort oflike an intro to get them sort
(35:01):
of, I guess, tuned into theirown chart and all this Like,
what would you recommend forsomeone who's new?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, I first.
I mean, I don't know, itdepends on who you are, but
there's a book recommendationthat I would make that if you
kind of are a beginner and havelike a really, really basic or
maybe even no understanding atall, let's see I might have the
book behind me.
It doesn't look like it, soI'll actually look that up right
(35:28):
now while we talk.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
but the other.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I mean I would just so I would go on to astrocom is
the website that I would use tofind your birth chart.
I would definitely.
I would try to get away from Iwouldn't not use co-star, but I
would try to find an app andmaybe co-star has this now that
(35:51):
gives you the circular birthchart.
I know, when I use co-star,when I first started out, it
just gave me a list of theplanets and what sign they were
in.
So I would first use like anastrology website.
So astrocom is a good one and Iwould just start.
(36:12):
You know, you just take it.
You just take it one planet ata time and there are four main
components of a birth chart thatyou want to look at.
So there are the planets, thereare the signs, there are the
houses and there are the aspects.
And when you're just startingout maybe you just want to look
(36:32):
up.
You know each of the planets intheir zodiac signs.
So what does the sun andAquarius mean?
What does the moon and Piscesmean?
What does Mercury and Virgomean?
So on and so forth.
The planets are the who in thechart.
The planets are the pantheon ofgods and goddesses that we find
(36:53):
in mythologies and storiesacross the world.
They are as Joseph Campbell putit, they're the
personifications of nature.
They're the force of desire andwill and thought and feeling.
You know that's Mars, the sun,mercury and the moon.
So they are sort of like thepeople inside of us.
(37:14):
Those are the planets.
And then the zodiac signs arethe how.
How does your moon?
How do your feelings expressthemselves?
Do they express?
You know, like kind of like,what do you need for your
emotional nurturance?
Are you a Capricorn?
Do you need structure anddiscipline and goal setting, or
(37:36):
are you someone who really needslike a close, intimate group of
friends and like, obviously weboth have a little bit of these
things in all of us.
But that's kind of how theplanets operate.
So that's the who, the how.
And then you have houses, whichis where houses are, where in
your life, the different likeaspects of life, our family, our
(37:58):
career, our relationships,traveling, you know the sort of
like different places of life,you know your planets will
operate, will kind of like havemore influence over certain
parts of your life as well.
And then the last component isaspects, which is the
relationships between theplanets and how they interact
(38:21):
with one another.
So, for example, if you want tolearn about your sun sign,
first, I'm an Aquarius Sun.
So first I'm just going to lookup, you know, sun and Aquarius
and you just see, you know thereare all kinds of astrology
websites that will give youdifferent definitions and you'll
take what you can gather fromthat.
And then you look up the Sunand the second house and it's
(38:45):
like, okay, so you know myvalues and like the second house
has to do with our resourcesand our values, and so you know
there's kind of like acombination of that house and
Aquarius.
And then the third thing youwould look up to understand your
sun sign is what planets are inrelationship to your sun sign.
(39:07):
So maybe you have Neptune rightnext to your sun and so Neptune
, being the planet of mysticism,is going to heavily influence
your sun.
Or you know your purpose andyou know this all sounds really
confusing right now because wedon't have like a physical image
but the birth chart, the birthchart will show you.
(39:28):
You'll see that, okay, my sun'sin Aquarius, it's in the second
house, and then you'll seethese angles, these lines being
drawn between the planets, andthose are the aspects.
So you'll be able to see likeoh, there's a line between
Jupiter and the sun.
So you know, when I'm thinkingabout my sun sign, you have to
(39:50):
include Jupiter and what Jupitermeans as a part of your life's
purpose or hero's journey.
That's the last thing that I'llsay about our hero's journey is
that that's our sun.
Our sun sign is what peopletypically think of as their
zodiac sign, the zodiac signthat you were born under.
That's your sun sign.
That's where the sun was whenyou were born, and the sun
(40:13):
doesn't necessarily haveanything to do with your
personality and that's wherepeople.
That's one of the mainmisconceptions, I think.
An astrology is sun signastrology.
It doesn't have to do with yourpersonality.
Sometimes it can, depending,but what it really represents is
your hero's journey.
So, Alana, what's your sun sign?
(40:35):
I'm a Virgo, you're a Virgo, soVirgo, you know I mean it could
play into your personality andthe stereotypes personality
stereotypes with Virgo have todo with, you know, being
meticulous and being aperfectionist and they're very
detail oriented.
They're good at, like, fixingand arranging things, and so you
(40:57):
know that doesn't necessarilymean that you're going to be
like this type A personality,but it means that your your arc
in this lifetime, your hero'sjourney is going to have to do
with Virgo's archetype, virgo'sstory and the ability to bring
(41:20):
spirit into matter, which iswhat what Virgo is about, being
opposite Pisces.
It's really about you know, howdo we create a structure using
the earth, using the earthelement and materiality?
How do we, how do we arrangethings the right way to make
(41:41):
spirit come to life through form?
I never knew that and I lovethat yeah it's much better,
right, like people, if people,if people, if only people knew
that, you know it's, it's, it'sso much, it's so much easier.
Like my mom is an Aries son andshe's not hard-headed or
(42:01):
aggressive or stubborn or any ofthe Aries stereotypes, but her
life's arc, her life's journey,has absolutely had to do with
embodying.
You know her autonomy and herindividuality and you know
living from her instinctual,spontaneous nature.
You know like it's not so muchabout you know what you act like
(42:24):
, it's more about your, yourstory of you know learning how
to manifest this particularenergy into your life.
So that's the sun sign, it'syour hero's journey, basically.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I've always heard that it was like our sun, our,
our how do I say our moon signwas sort of like our internal
emotional space, and then ourrising sign was how the world,
or like sort of like an outwardprojection of like how we
present ourselves to the worldand how the world sees us.
Is that accurate from yourperspective, or what do you
(42:59):
think about?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
that, yeah, yeah, I think that's so.
I mean, I think the ascendantsign so how people see us,
that's your personality.
So your ascendant signdefinitely has more to do with
what you act like.
It's.
It's your mask, for a lack of abetter word, and everyone has
one, everyone has a persona, andthat's it also.
(43:20):
The ascendant also has to dowith, like, your kind of like
approach to life.
So, yeah, and then the moon hasto do with our like internal
and like habitual self.
Has to do with things that arelike what's what's what's what's
your comfort zone, what's kindof like what is your habitual
way of behaving, kind of how youact and move through the world
(43:44):
on a daily basis, and then sothe sun is more like what's this
overarching purpose?
And I like to use how you know,the moon reflects the sun's
light, so the sun is yourpurpose, and then the moon
reflects that purpose, and soyour moon sign has to do with
how are you manifesting thatpurpose.
(44:05):
Has to do with, like, how areyou moving through the world as
a person, you know?
So yeah, Very cool.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I'm excited.
This, I mean, I think it'sfascinating and I feel like it's
just like we're saying in thebeginning of our conversation
it's just a good tool to have inyour toolkit To give
perspective on your life.
So so much more than I'minterested in, and we may have
to do a part two and a partthree because I have more
questions, but in interest oftime, I'd like to wrap it up and
(44:35):
I'm gonna.
I'm curious is there?
How can people get in touchwith you?
How can people work with you?
Do you have anythinginteresting coming up that you'd
like to let people know about?
Speaker 2 (44:48):
yeah, so my my website is the dash alchemical
dash soul dot com.
The alchemical soul is mybusiness name.
My Instagram is the same thing,but it's the underscore
alchemical, underscore soul andyou know you can find wings,
(45:11):
links to my, my calendar andJust like videos and stuff that
I'm creating.
And then the one thing thatcomes to mind that may be of
interest to people is a classthat I'm teaching on February
4th at Serenity yoga andwellness in South Hadley.
It's going to be a three hourlecture on how to read your
(45:33):
birth chart.
So there you go.
I mean really just scratch thesurface here.
So if you like what you heardand you want to know how to
interpret your birth chart andget like a step by step guidance
of how to do that for yourselfand others, I'll be teaching a
class on February 4th, I believe, one o'clock at Serenity yoga
(45:54):
and wellness in South Hadley.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Fantastic.
Well, I'll definitely includeall of the links in the show
notes.
So, if our listeners interestedin getting in touch with you, I
think I mean, probably it wouldbe so wonderful to do a reading
with you, and so it'll all bein the show notes for a listener
who's interested in it, andwill also include the
information for the event, whichalso sounds super juicy.
(46:17):
And, yeah, I'm just excited foreverything that you're sharing
and how you're letting yourinternal genius come out into
the world, and it's, it's such apleasure to know you and to,
yeah, just witness you steppinginto this wisdom.
So, thank you so much forsharing your voice.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Would you mind if I also sharedthe book that I mentioned?
I would love it.
I think I found it okay, so allright.
So it's by a Shani, I thinkthat's how you pronounce her
name, shani Nicholas it's called.
You were born for thisastrology radical self
acceptance.
So yeah, there you go we loveChani.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
She's great.
She also has an app that myfriend has, but I don't have it
apparently.
It's quite good, she's awesomeyeah, she's great.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
She's definitely trusted, astrologer.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah well, that's the thing too, I would say, is find
someone that you trust, thatyou resonate with.
I think that's the mostimportant on the journey of
tuning into your astrologyabsolutely wonderful, thank you.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show, ben Kibbie.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Yeah, this is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Thanks for having me well, dear listener, I hope you
have enjoyed this conversationas much as I have.
This has been another episodeof the ode to joy podcast.
Thank you so much for tuninginto this latest episode, dear
listener, and if you enjoyed it,why not go ahead?
Hit the subscribe button?
And while you're there, why notthrow in a couple of stars
(47:43):
maybe two, maybe three, maybefour, maybe five and also write
us a review?
I would love to hear how youare receiving these
conversations.
It is my sincere pleasure tobring you these episodes every
week, sending you so much love,and I'll talk to you again very
soon.
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