Have you ever witnessed the transformative magic of movement, or felt the intricate connection between your creative spirit and the ancient practice of yoga? Sondra Loring, our esteemed guest, embodies this synergy as a queer witch, interdisciplinary artist, and the Director of Sadhana Center for Yoga and Meditation. Her life's work weaves a stunning narrative that connects the fluidity of dance with the grounding practice of meditation, offering a revitalizing perspective on trauma-informed yoga through her impactful program, Moving Potential.
This episode is an intimate exploration of the threads that bind yoga, creativity, and the joys of living a mindful life. Sondra's candid recollections—from her early days as a ballet dancer to a beacon of hope for those dealing with the repercussions of incarceration and addiction—paint a vivid picture of a journey rich with learning and humility. Her stories serve as a guide, revealing how we too can integrate movement and meditation into our daily rituals, fostering spaces where sorrow is met with gratitude and personal growth is achieved through the mentorship of brilliant minds from diverse disciplines.
As we bid adieu to Sondra, we find ourselves wrapped in the warmth of community and self-care, embracing the simple pleasures of vibrant attire, morning candle rituals, and the comfort of our shared human experiences. It's a heartfelt reminder of the resilience found in the fabric of our collective narratives and the beauty that arises when we honor our individuality within the tapestry of life. Stay with us as we continue to bring forward voices that resonate with the soul's longing for connection, creativity, and, of course, a dash of joy.
Get in touch with Sondra:
Visit Sadhana Center for Yoga and Meditation
Moving Potential
Follow on IG: @sadhanacenter
Buy your copy of Elena's book "Grieve Outside the Box"
Follow on IG @elenabox
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Ode to Joy podcast, a show where we
talk about joy how do wecultivate it, how do we maintain
it and what are the things thatget in the way.
I'm your host, elena Vox,bringing you another part of our
Season 2 series, talking allabout the interviews, and this
week we are talking with SandraLorring, queer Witch,
interdisciplinary Artist,choreographer and Director of
(00:22):
Sadhana Center for Yoga andMeditation.
I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello, my dear listener, and welcome back to
another episode of the Ode toJoy podcast.
I'm your host, Elena Vox, andwith me today I have the sincere
pleasure of inviting on my newfriend, Sandra Lorring.
Welcome, Sandra.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Hi Elena.
Thank you, I'm so honored andexcited to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Such a pleasure to have you here on the show.
So for our listener, can youjust lock us into?
Where in the world are youjoining us from today?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yes, I can.
I am on Stockbridge, Mohican,Muncie Land, Hudson, New York,
near the Hudson River, whichflows both ways.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I actually didn't know that.
Does the Hudson flow both ways?
Yes, it does.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
It's a river in estuary.
It's quite amazing.
And the original caretakerscanoed and fished and honored
and had a relationship with theriver very deeply.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'd love to spend more time learning from that
river.
That's really beautiful.
I only know a little bit aboutit and I know that it's gone
through quite a journey, in thelast few decades as well, of
coming back to life.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yes, that's right, and it gives life in so many
ways.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well, where you are is one of really the most
beautiful places I have been toand it's for our listener who's
joining us.
It's about a couple of hoursfrom New York City.
I'm joining you from LongIsland right now and I had the
pleasure of going up to Hudsonmy first time this past New
Year's and my partner and I wentup.
(02:15):
We rented a little cabin rightin sort of in this little
offshoot of the river and, ofcourse, we wanted to go to some
yoga classes.
And he's showing me all ofthese studios and we find
Sadhana and I was like, oh yeah,that's the real deal.
And we got a chat and we foundyou and I saw your picture and I
(02:35):
was like I need to go takeclass with Sandra.
So, for our listeners, sandrais the director of Sadhana,
which is a Center for Yoga andMeditation.
She's 20 years old, which isamazing.
Congratulations, thank you.
We made it so far and I have somany questions about that
journey.
(02:57):
A little bit more about Sandraamazing, amazing person.
Sandra is a queer witch.
It's interdisciplinary artistand choreographer, your movement
and somatic yoga instructor.
Lover of compost, which isphenomenal, and the upside down
(03:17):
also very cool.
An enthusiast of herbalmedicine, which I'd love to hear
more about as well, and asteward of a fox and bird
sanctuary also amazing.
And Sandra is an activecommunity organizer, and I'd
also love to hear a little bitmore about your work with moving
(03:37):
potential, which can you giveus a little sort of description
of what moving potential is aswell?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Sure and the potential.
Quite one of the loves of mylife is a program that brings
trauma-informed yoga andmindfulness and dance to those
impacted by incarceration andaddiction and trauma.
So we work in local jails,prisons, recovery centers, we
(04:05):
work with children with anincarcerated parent and we work
with people that are reenteringafter being incarcerated.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Very, very important work, and I'm very I mean awe
that this is also somethingthat's so crucial and very
important that you're bringingthat to the world.
So thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
My, it gives me so much.
I could go on about that, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, we have so many , so many avenues Talk about
like this.
It's like we're like the HudsonRiver there's so many places to
go, which is absolutelywonderful and a very like juicy,
delicious place to be in thatlived so much life and that you
have so much wisdom that youcarry with you.
And so the topic of the day isthe intermuse, as we're talking
(04:52):
about on season two of the oh ToJoy podcast.
And I guess, like my firstquestion right off the bat, when
I talk about, when I'm thinkingabout you and what I know of
you from just taking classeswith you, would you say like
what part of your yoga teachingwould you say is how do I say?
(05:14):
Would you say it's like thenumber one avenue that your
intermuse and your creativitycomes out of and flows out of,
or would you sort of center adifferent element of yourself,
or is it kind of all woven intogether?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, thank you for that question.
I think it is woven in together.
I am a dancer, choreographer,before I began the yoga journey,
so there's always been movementin my life.
And then I stumbled into a yogaclass when I was on tour with a
(05:50):
dance company and I was like,ah, this is great.
And I tend to be very impulsiveand I dove in very deeply and
went to India many times andimmersed myself and I used to
try to really keep thingsseparate, like this is dance and
this is yoga.
And then at some point, I thinkwith the evolution of yoga
(06:14):
which I'm very happy about theymerged and I became less
concerned about boundaries ofthese things.
And I think that's where manyof us are now, that somatics,
trauma-informed practices, yogapractices, movement practices
(06:35):
are all in a piece, you couldsay so.
They inform me, they inspire me, they're always catching up
with each other and leading eachother on to new rabbit holes.
I love to dive deep into topicsand explore and continue to be
(06:56):
engaged, and that would be theanswer.
I think that it is definitelyinterwoven.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And I feel that just in the practices that I got to
have with you, that it's sort oflike this living, breathing
organism of a practice thatinvites people to really be in
their own experience andexperience themselves as this
human animal in a body.
And I was telling my partnerand he's really one year into
(07:27):
his yoga journey, which is verycute because he's so excited I
remember those were the days butit's so cute because he'll see
some kind of wild arm balanceand he's a strong guy and he
wants to do all the fun fancystuff.
And I'm so glad that I was ableto bring him to your class
(07:48):
because I was trying to explainto him, because your classes,
the way that you teach, is so Iwant to say, like delicate and
specific and strong in a waythat I say you really are a
master teacher, because you know, I tell him when we get this
opportunity to practice withthese master teachers, as you've
(08:09):
learned the form so well enoughthat you know how to break the
form.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, thank you for saying that.
It's so kind.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, and you bring in.
It's not just okay, ladies andgentlemen, we're doing warrior
one okay.
And making people kind of fitinto this box right, it just
becomes this free flowing kindof movement that is, I think, so
nourishing and I think, allowspeople to discover themselves in
(08:39):
a practice where they're nottrying to fit themselves into my
body.
Supposed to look like this inthis pose, but more about how do
I feel?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And I think because I've been doing yoga for so long
that I want to teach a classthat I would want to take.
So that's a tall order, becauseI'm picky.
I'm like I learn a lot fromclasses that I don't like and
don't usually return.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, as they say, the onlypractices you regret are the
ones you don't do, so even theones we're going, you're like
okay, so that wasn't my favorite, but we learned things and,
yeah, I think what you serve isis what I call like gourmet yoga
.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Oh yeah, I don't know exactly what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
it's just tasty and delicious.
You know, it's the kind ofpractice where it's very similar
to the kind of practice that Iteach, where it's like a
conversation with the breath andthe body.
And I love also your queuingbecause it gives people the
opportunity to get curious abouthow their body wants to be in a
(09:58):
shape, and I love yoursuggestions.
It's, it's, it's never Okay,we're going to 100% do this and
put your foot here and thealignment.
You know, your hips must besquared and which, again, I
think it's important perhaps tolearn certain forms, yes, in
some ways, yes, and then to justgive people the permission to,
(10:20):
yeah, treat it almost like adance and also just the
permission that you allow reallythe entire room to be in their
experience.
So you know, when I'm teaching,people kind of make fun of my
friends, make fun of me.
They're always roasting me.
They're like we're alwaysmoaning in your classes.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Well, we are definitely kindred spirits.
As soon as I saw you, I waslike who is that?
And then you helped me.
When I was like wait a minute,we left something out and you
did it, I was like thank you somuch.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Because it's the stuff of yoga teachers.
Nightmares when we're laying inbed at night.
We go oh, we forgot to do that.
That was on that side.
Yeah, yeah, so it's gourmetyoga and I just, I highly
recommend anyone who's listeningif you're in the New York area,
100% get yourself up to Hudson.
It's accessible by train.
Go, yes, it is what's on.
(11:16):
I would welcome you.
Wow, ok, so let's.
I'd love to bring it back toyour origins in dance and can
you give us a little bit of astory of of how you got into
dance?
Like, bring us into baby Sandrazone.
Like when did you first, kindof when did you feel the muse on
(11:36):
the wind that you you heard thecall and you might want to move
my body.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Well, it is a little funny in that I took a few
ballet classes I guess there's apicture of me as a rabbit and
when I was four and I came homeone day and I said to my mother,
I'm not going back, they don'tever let us rest.
So then I never went back untilI was working with a beautiful
(12:08):
company in California.
Those were the days whenCalifornia gave a grant to
artists to teach and then thegrant was also for young people
to take their classes.
So I was in class with a mannamed Michael Gonzalez,
beautiful artist who's no longerwith us, and he has a company
(12:29):
called the Mime Caravan andinvited me to be part of the
Mime Caravan.
And we did in the style ofbread and puppet and Meredith
among giant puppets and fantasy.
We started a parade in SantaBarbara, the summer solstice
parade, which gave.
We then gave to the city and Ithink they're like ten thousand
(12:50):
people that come every year.
Now it's continued since andone of the women in the company
said come and take this danceclass, he's really cool.
And I went and I was like thathappens once in a while, like
lightning strikes, and I'm likethis is it.
And I studied with him, richardBurroughs, and he left Santa
(13:14):
Barbara to.
He got a job at UC Riversideteaching dance and I said I'm
going to follow him.
And so I went because I hadbeen taking a gap period from
high school.
I was like I'm not going tocollege.
And then I was like I'm goingto college now Because rich is
there.
And I danced with him and I'mvery impulsive again.
I did one semester and I movedto New York.
(13:35):
I'm going to be a dancer.
And New York said no, you'renot, we don't even care about
you at all.
And I cried a lot.
And then he we were talking onthe phone and rich said I
started a dance company inCalifornia.
Do you want to come back?
And I said I'm on the plane andI finished my degree and I
(13:56):
danced with him around SouthernCalifornia and then I moved back
to New York and the experiencehas started flowing.
I got into different companies.
I'm a very magpie person,anything that shiny.
I danced with many, manychoreographers I'm very grateful
and they they have an imprinton my body to this day and I
(14:22):
then became an organizer.
So I started an improvisationfestival and I started
underground dance and I neverlooked back.
You know, I'm still making work, I'm still choreographing.
And then on tour, like I said, Istumbled into this yoga class.
It was called a stronger prep.
Oh my, you know, they weren'treally allowed to teach a stong
(14:46):
unless you were given permission.
And I was like this is amazing.
And she was Australian.
And she said, yes, it's verybeautiful.
And I said do you know ifthere's anything like this in
New York?
And she said yes, there's a mannamed Eddie Stern.
And so I found Eddie.
All this was underground, youknow, there wasn't a yoga studio
on every block.
(15:06):
There were no yoga teachertrainings.
I found Eddie very impulsively.
I studied for a little bit.
I went to India and to studywith Patabi Joyce and just, of
course, those of you in the know, I do not condone the behavior
of Patabi Joyce.
The practice is beautiful.
I did it for a few years andthen I'm too much of a magpie,
(15:29):
so I just went out from thereand started piecing things
together and exploring.
I did a lot of different stylesof yoga while I was still
dancing.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Oh yes, You've introduced a lot of really
beautiful little rivulets thatI'd love to go down, because,
well, it's very interesting, Ithink, when it comes to
someone's yoga journey is howpeople come to it and then sort
of the paths that they take andhow it really informs them and
(16:01):
their movement practice.
And I love how you said thatyou're this magpie, that you
just kind of find the next shinything and you follow it, and I
think it's really beautiful tocontinue to follow that sort of
inspiration.
And then also just the fact thatyou were there, you were like
boots on the ground before yogabecame what it is, and that I'm
(16:29):
super, super, super interestedin, and I hope that we're able
to kind of like follow this andflow down this river in a way
that is really nourishing totalk about for you and for me.
I'm just so curious reallyabout you know, you were on the
scene, like you said, when therewasn't a yoga teacher training
(16:51):
and there weren't.
You know you had to really findthe teachers.
And then the teachers I'mcurious like the teachers that
you found, because they were sofew and far between they.
I'm assuming that they musthave had to have been very
highly vetted and had really putin the work, and was it?
Was it kind of more of like alike you had to sort of knock on
the door to be let in, kind ofa thing, or yeah, you had to go
(17:13):
sit outside the door for a whileuntil they let you in.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Basically, yeah, yes, it was like that and there I
didn't know that much but I,because of my movement
background and dance background,I knew what felt right in my
body.
So I would trust people becauseof that and I had a certain
amount of faith and confidenceabout trusting that transmission
(17:38):
which is so magical to me.
How do you transmit a physicalpractice from one person to
another?
And the Ashdanga tradition youknow they're not showing you,
they're speaking and guiding youthrough this practice that you
memorize and then it becomesyour own, which was very rich,
so I could take it on tour and Icould do it in hotel rooms and
(18:02):
it really informed a foundation,I think, for a practice,
because a lot of people are likeI'd like to do things on my own
, but I don't know where tobegin.
And I totally relate and it'sit's a learning things by heart.
You know that saying is verypowerful.
It's like you learn it by heartand then you, then it becomes
(18:24):
part of you.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, people talk about muscle memory, but I love
that even more.
Like you learn it by heart andthen it becomes a part of you,
so that, like I said, you'velearned the form and then, once
you've built this deepconnection with your body, then
you can sort of begin to coloroutside the lines a bit.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
A bit for sure, and I think, because I've always
created movement and art andmade up songs as a child, and I
love how, as a child, you gointo this imaginal world that
everybody supports and then, assoon as you get to be an adult,
it's like oh, by the way, that'sover, it wasn't real, it's like
(19:07):
what?
So I definitely rejected that,but that creativity took over.
It's like I'm not.
I'm not one to to repeat.
As you know from taking a fewclasses, I don't repeat myself
much.
I mean, of course, there arethings that always are the same
(19:28):
and you're different when you dothem.
But love to put things togetherin new ways, shake things up,
novelty as a practice ofmindfulness.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And I love that you've also maintained this
sense of enchantment with life.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I have Wildly.
So I don't know why, but I'mjust as excited about teaching
now as I was when I started.
And when I started, I thinkback again, there was no yoga
teacher trainings.
I'd been teaching dance.
So I was like, well, I'm goingto teach yoga, started in the
gym at NYU and the cold basementwith fluorescent lights, and I
don't really know what I wasteaching.
(20:09):
To be honest, I look back andI'm like, but I think I probably
knew a little bit more than thestudents who came Right, and
then the chanting went alongwith that too.
I'm a person that loves to sing.
There's a song that I hear fromthe universe as well.
So I began chanting without anyaccompaniment and I just had to
(20:34):
do it and people were like, ohboy, we were doing the Gayatri
mantra and, I think, loving it.
I think there was a longingthat people have.
I think there is a longing thatpeople have to be connected, to
be connected to the animateforces in the world, to sing
(20:55):
back to the universe, which isalways singing to us, and that
idea you mentioned about theinner muse.
I'm kind of a person that lovesto understand the word that I'm
trying to figure out.
So I was thinking about what isa muse, and I want to kind of
(21:15):
tease that apart a little bit.
I was thinking that a muse, isit a person?
Does it have to be a person tobe a muse?
I think it's a place wherethere's creativity, where
there's a shared interest and anexploration of falling apart,
of dissolving, of floating andthen remembering.
(21:38):
And there's an offering aboutfeeding the muse.
Like you would feed your demons, you could feed the muse.
And if it isn't a person, ifit's more than a human, then the
trees become a muse and theriver becomes a muse and the
breath becomes a muse.
However it could be, thenanything.
So it doesn't have to belimited to that small definition
(22:02):
of there's a person thatbecomes your muse.
That's my reflection on that.
Teasing that apart a little bit,I love that, yeah, and when you
invited me, you said somethingabout genius and I really wanted
to dive into that word.
What does that mean?
(22:23):
And in the ancient times,genius was something that was
other than human.
It was like a force that wentthrough you.
So you don't have to be sonarcissistic about your
creativity that there wasanother force that you could
want either share credit withfor your wonderful creation.
(22:47):
Or you could also absolvecredit and say I guess my genius
was lame.
Today, and also the definitionfor me of genius would be that
it's something that one loves,that to be loved, to feel love,
(23:08):
is genius.
Or it could be the traditionaldefinition of that.
You get so good at somethingthat other people notice your
genius.
They're a genius.
Well, we're all geniuses.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Thank you.
Thank you for teasing thatapart and yes, that's very much
part of the conversation and I'malways curious to see how my
guests kind of interact withthis idea, because I like to
view it sometimes as sort oflike something outside of myself
(23:42):
, something to inspire myartistry, my creativity, and
I'll kind of get on theseconcepts or ideas or feelings.
I'm like a Francophile, so Ilove the French language and
then I'll kind of go into Frenchart and film and then I think
it has the ability to sort oftransport you and put you in a
(24:03):
different mind space and, fromthat place, creating from there.
And I love also what you saidabout using nature as a muse,
because it's constantly having aconversation with us if we, I
think, can get quiet enough tounderstand that we're always in
this co-creation with it.
Right In the moment we are.
(24:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Being able to listen.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And sometimes I think people find that a little funny
.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Of course, you know what I?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Of course.
So I talk about sitting beneatha tree or having a conversation
with a tree or a leaf, orbreathing with a tree and listen
, don't knock it till you try it, because they have things to
teach us.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
There are ancestors they're way older than we are,
first of all and they I often goto a tree and instead of asking
a question, I'll say what doyou want me to know?
I guess that is a question, butjust listening, and they always
are so generous, they're likethink about this, feel this here
now.
How can I age gracefully likeyou have?
(25:11):
That's a big one for me at thispoint in my life.
It's like I need some guidance.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And how interesting also, just that the trees have
different wisdom for us atdifferent times in our lives,
different aspects of nature.
But I mean the trees, theyreally get me.
I mean I remember when I wasgoing through the process of
providing support to my fatherduring his dying process.
I remember sitting in thebackyard and everything around
(25:41):
me.
There was so much how do I say?
It was a very nebulous spacebecause there was no clear cut
time of well, he's definitelygoing to die on this day or
anything.
You know, he's just kind of inthis waiting period and this.
Liminal space yeah, liminalspace, for sure.
And I remember just staring atthis tree and looking at all of
(26:03):
its leaves and seeing that theleaves were moving and they were
interacting at the wind, andthen just looking at the trunk
and seeing how still it was andknowing deep down I had this
sort of like it's a very simpleyet profound revelation that,
even though it looked as if itwas completely standing still
and nothing was happening, thatin fact there was a lot going on
(26:24):
inside, that there was stillgrowth, even in the pause and in
the stillness, and even if itlooks like there's nothing
happening, there's always I knowI'm like why do drugs?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I mean, I'm tripping just sitting under that tree.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
You heard it here first.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yes, you want to have a good time?
Go find your local tree.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
So good, it's so true , it's so true.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And I wish that everybody and everybody deserves
to have that access, whichisn't so, and that is a sorrow
that I feel about this world.
Not everybody has access togreen, to space, to trees, to
water, and I definitely want toshare my heart sorrow with the
(27:17):
situation in the world right now.
The brokenness that we've knownhas been there for a long time,
but it's still shocking andsaddening about Gaza and all the
places that are at war and theworld right now, where it's a
tragic and beautiful world.
Is it not broken and beautiful?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And you've brought up something that I was just about
to go down as well, which issort of like how do you in your
life, how do you maintain thatsense of enchantment when
there's this sort ofjuxtaposition between that and
the reality of what we're facingright now in this world?
(28:02):
And have there been times inyour life where you didn't feel
the sparkle and you didn't seethe shiny thing as the magma and
the world seemed bleak and allyou were in was it?
It was sort of the darkness ofit, which I think is also
valuable for sure.
And how yeah, I guess sort ofhow have you navigated that and
(28:22):
to kind of get that almostsprinkling of like fairy dust
back in those times?
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Yeah, thank you for that question.
It's a challenging question,for sure.
I definitely believe that Istarted teaching yoga and I was
offering this practice that Iloved and I was receiving so
much from, but over time Irealized that my students were
teaching me about love, and thatwas a revelation.
(28:52):
And so there's such acommitment and, I think, a
responsibility, perhaps a littleharsh, but I feel that I always
want to be there for them andhold space and co-create this
experience, which is goingthrough the yoga fairy door, so
(29:13):
to speak, going into the woodsand going through a little fairy
door, and then it's different.
The light is different, how welisten is different, and coming
together to be able to fallapart, coming together to be
alone, these are very inspiringways of being for me.
So I'm always it feels likeeach class is new again sharing
(29:38):
what is lighting me up and thenasking them what do you think of
this?
So we have some talks, sometimesin yoga class, which is usually
unheard of.
You ask a question.
Everybody's like deer in thehead, like we're supposed to
speak.
I don't do that every class oranything, but every now and then
I'm like who's with you today?
(29:59):
What are you bringing in andpeople have a lot to say.
They always have a lot to sayand that interaction is how we
grow and how we feel connectedto each other, because it's very
lonely this period of time,perhaps all periods of time to
be in this human form.
It's so mystifying.
(30:22):
So I'm trying to find themystical without it being
mystifying, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, I think you've touched on something really
important, which is that crucialneed of community as we go
through life in general, anddefinitely these times where
there is a lot of reallyheartbreaking contrast, where we
need community to be able tofall apart, to be alone in and I
(30:49):
think that's what's so specialabout a yoga class a good, good,
nice container of a yoga classwhere you can go and it's
something that I've found duringmy travels, no matter where I
am in the world to find a yogaclass, and then I know that I
can be there and I can witnessand be witnessed without having
(31:09):
to say a word and then, if I sochoose, I can interact.
But I think it's something very, very special to be in that
space and to be in spaces likethat.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, I think it has the components of ritual and
rhythm and rigor.
And I'm interested that yousaid something about the classes
are strong.
I do not generally teach agentle yoga class.
I teach a strength building,mobility enhancing class that's
(31:43):
got rhythm and it's a ritual tome.
We come in, we chant om, we gothrough the yoga fairy door, do
this ritual together.
We come out, we centerourselves because it's very
vulnerable in that place.
We center ourselves beforestepping back out onto Warren
Street.
So there's also protectioninvolved.
(32:05):
The mantras are protective, theidea of that everything isn't
okay and we want to be aware andhey, hamdukam anagatam, see the
trouble to come and cross thestreet.
Grateful sorrow is a term DaveSmith used.
(32:29):
He's a meditation teacher and Iwas really moved by that that
our sorrow holds so much aboutpointing to what's meaningful to
us.
So there's always space in myclasses for people to feel
sorrow, to feel grief, and oftenthere's this toxic positivity
which I really gets my hacklesup Open your heart these
(32:53):
platitudes that teachers saywithout really really thinking
about.
Well, if you open your heartall the time, it's too much.
You need to close.
If you're doing a chest opener,the back of your heart is
closing.
So what are you talking about?
Very particular, there's my wordthing I want to say things that
(33:17):
are accurate.
I want the cues, I want them tobe inclusive.
I want the student to haveagency, but there's still a form
there, so it's not free for all, which I love, but that's a
different time.
So those are some thoughtsabout the gifts that yoga has,
that the sadness can, what I'velost, are also what I'm most
(33:42):
grateful for.
And to avoid that, to controlthat, to try to push that away,
I think we lose a lot ofinformation about being human
and the sorrow, as we canimagine, could then be matched
with joy or appreciation.
The body and mind very, verywise given a chance.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Beautifully said.
I'm looking forward tolistening to that again.
Yes, I think something you saidWow, yeah, it's good, it's
really good.
It's something you said also islike when we think of heart
openers is you know, have youcreated a space, are you in a
space where, if you do crackopen your heart, does this space
(34:25):
that you're in, does it havethe capacity to hold what's in
there as well?
Does it have the capacity tohold the grief, or is it like,
hey guys, we're just going to doa monster heart opener, right?
Speaker 3 (34:37):
And you're going to cry.
Oh, good luck to you.
You know, crying for three daysand the teachers nowhere to be
found.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
And this is something I'd love to sort of lead into,
if you feel ready and open tosharing your piece of writing
about ritual, because you'vecreated what you create in your
yoga spaces is a place wherepeople can come together and
have that sort of sense ofsafety.
And then, yeah, I am curious ifyou would like to just share a
(35:16):
few words on sort of theimportance of safety and then
how you can kind of create thisspace of ritual for me.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Thank, you I would love to.
I wrote something entitledRitual Instructions.
One be still for a long time.
Two fetch the basket, yourfavorite one made of dark reeds,
oblong in shape, big enough toswaddle a baby inside and float
it down the Nile.
Three it's too heavy to liftlike there are river stones
(35:48):
waiting it down.
Peering inside, there's onlyemptiness.
Four make a fire in the basket.
Add the red sky of the morning,mahakasha, dripping, sweet
water melted from the recentsnowfall to create smoke.
Five see how is it much lighternow, light enough to drag to
the cleared patch of earth.
(36:09):
Brush the ground.
Six lay sticks in a pattern,leaves and flowers, if it's
spring, summer or fall.
Seven add your wildness,queerness, longing, desire,
dreams and lie face down besidethe basket, listen to the
birdsong and the tree speak.
Eight add your sister's,parkinson's, your addictions,
(36:32):
your fears, hatreds, cravings.
Basket is heavy again.
Are you surprised you forgot toadd love?
Do it now, it's never too late.
Nine begin to hum and then singfrom some adivistic place, deep
and guttural.
Add rocking or swaying.
Sing forever and a day.
Ten sit still in the quiet fora long time before you leave.
(36:56):
Pray to the dignity in yourspine, the connection in your
ribs, your ancestors at yourback, the unknown before you
Rest in your heart.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Really beautiful.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Thank you for sharing .
It's my life raft.
Honestly, people say how do youkeep doing it over and over?
I'm like I don't know.
It's my life raft.
It's not altruistic, I'm sorryto say, but I'm in this too,
like Mary Oliver, you standaround and you open your arms,
(37:34):
not like standing around, butmaybe something will come to you
some leaf or coil of wind, sometree, because they're in this
too.
It's a fairy door.
Now.
There's a lot of joy andlaughter and making fun of.
(37:57):
It's all there.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
It's all there and that's part of the reason I'm
just so.
I feel so blessed that we'vebeen put in each other's paths,
because I think there'ssomething truly special about
holding the wisdom that you doand maintaining such an amazing
sense of humor and not takingyourself so seriously.
(38:22):
Wow, so good, because it's likethe more we learn, the more we
realize we don't know and themore we realize we need to learn
.
Maintain that sense ofcontinuing to learn and
continuing to be in conversation, because you're a part of the
ride.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Thank you, right, right, thank you.
So some people it's to takeyourself out of the center and
some people do that too much andit's like put yourself in the
center for a second.
That's why being prescriptiveis very dangerous.
There isn't one way.
Even though we have a lot ofsimilarities, our different
(38:58):
experiences demand that we tastethings and try them and then,
like a goat, they don't eateverything.
Actually, if they eat somethingthey don't like, they spit it
out.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Speaking of which, this is something I'll bring us
back to earlier in theconversation, if you're willing
to go down this little rabbithole with me.
I'm curious about yourexperience in the role of a
mentor in your life, becauseit's really beautiful, I feel,
in many ways.
(39:31):
Now you are in this role ofmentor to so many people and I'm
curious about your experiencein taking on being sort of the
student and the role of mentorsin your life.
And I'm really curious aboutthis for other people, creative
people, which is really just allpeople, people who are willing
(39:52):
to kind of listen to the voiceand follow and how in other
people's lives I like to studyother artists, people who
inspire me, and I love to sortof see, oh so they study with
that person, they study withthat person.
And I'm curious to hear becauseyou did share a bit about the
(40:14):
mentors that were in your life,and I guess I'm sort of curious
about your experience in havingmentors in your life.
Perhaps also what can happenwhat has happened in my life too
of sort of when you reach thatpoint where, as the goat, it's
kind of like you're eating,eating, and then you kind of get
to a point where like, okay,then you go, okay.
(40:35):
So now my path here has changedand I have to have to move on
to perhaps a different mentor orshift gears which, yeah, I'm
just curious about yourexperience in that, as you've
been on this lifelong journey ofhaving this conversation with
your inner genius, with yourmuse and, yeah, the role of the
mentor in your life, oh it's big.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
I have to say I'm always at the feet of so many
different people.
A lot of them they don't knowthat.
It's like I'm your friend butyou don't know that.
So definitely women, inparticular women writers.
(41:18):
I did a three-year program withJudith Schmidt and Alexis
Johnson about trauma and neuroscience and they really were
mentors to me.
I looked towards incredibleblack women and black farmers in
my region as mentors workingwith the land, and it goes on.
(41:43):
It kind of goes on and on.
You know, like I'm always.
I'm an eternal student, as manyof us are.
I study all the time.
I read.
Pandemic was really a time whenI just I love the library.
I would have this.
They have the thing where youcould order online and then they
(42:06):
would put it your books in apaper bag and you can go pick
them up and they would drawlittle pictures on the bag.
It was very cute and I wouldorder like 10 books and of
course, I wasn't going to readthem all, but I would just like
hold them.
I would just hold one and thenI would give it back.
So books are a mentor to me.
Writers, poets, mary Oliver,those that many of us follow,
(42:31):
but my own study with a fan ofRitual, josh Schreie.
I love Iyana Young and herpodcast for the wild, so you
know that's an endless question.
I'm always at the feet ofsomeone and giving them credit,
because I have very few originalideas in my humble opinion.
(42:54):
I just am caught by people'sbrilliance.
I mean, thinking gets a bad rapand meditation, I'm like
thinking, is what created theseincredible things, so let's not
throw it all out with thebathwater, if you know what I
mean.
And I just received the grantdance grant where the grant is
(43:18):
for process, meaning I don'thave to make a piece, but I did
have to choose a mentor.
So I know I'm so excited.
Ann Carlson, and an incrediblechoreographer in this country,
has agreed to be my mentor.
So I'm looking forward to thenext bit of time, having my
process shaken up ready.
(43:40):
Shake me up.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
That's it.
That's it.
It's like the moment we sort offeel that we're becoming too
rigid, it's like, oh, we got tobreak the form again, add in
something.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Yeah, challenge me, challenge me, and then I'm going
to turn around and challengeyou.
I'm going to pass on that gift.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Beautiful.
I'm curious.
Also, in your work of passingon your gift, I would like to
hear a bit about the work thatyou're doing with moving
potential.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Yeah, see, now that's where I just light up like a
recent incandescent bulb.
Again, I went in because Ithought I could be useful and
share yoga and then I learned somuch about love with these
elegant, eloquent, enthusiasticpeople that have been thrown
(44:35):
away.
The system should be abolishedand, in the meantime, trying to
make it more humane, create aspace where people can feel they
can say, without fear of beingpunished, what's on their mind.
We write a lot, we do thesewild dance improvisations.
(44:57):
I'm working with men in amedium security prison teaching
them dance.
For goodness sakes, I can'teven get men to come to class
that aren't incarcerated.
So I am in love with them andwe, I think, might eventually
make a piece, but they teach meand we have created, created,
(45:20):
co-created this space where oneof them said this is the only
place I don't feel like aconvict and it breaks my heart
open in the best way.
Every time we do meditation, wetalk about grateful sorrow, we
talk about everything, and theywrite beautifully and we share,
and then they do authenticmovement and they do trust falls
(45:43):
and they learn a phrase andthey walk around and then they
crawl around the floor and it'sjust wild to me, and every
Thursday I can't wait.
I'm like what's going to happentoday?
What's going to happen today?
But then now there's a team ofus, so there's teachers in
(46:03):
recovery.
We did the first in the nationyoga teacher training for women
in a mandated recovery center.
There have been trainings inprison and jail perhaps, but not
in a recovery center and so fareight women have graduated with
their teaching certificate andthat is huge in terms of
(46:24):
confidence and raising their,their wrestling with their self
loathing and self worth.
So it is, I'm just runningalong behind it.
I did start it and it's justbeen growing and growing.
And it's still just small, it'slocal, but I'm excited and
(46:46):
honored and have yet to seewhere it will continue to go,
but I'm there with it.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
I'm curious was there anything about diving into this
work initially that surprisedyou, having been a teacher of
yoga and dance for so long andthen being sort of in a
different environment?
Was there anything thatsurprised you or anything that
you had to sort of unlearn orlearn in this new space?
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Sure, and that reminds me.
We do a yoga program at mystudio and it's called the
Untraining Reframing, because wereally are untraining ourselves
a lot.
Honestly, I thought I would gointo the prison and that
everybody your worst nightmarewould sit there with their arms
crossed and be like, yeah, andthat was so surprising.
(47:37):
They weren't like that at all.
They were like hmm, and askedme good questions, what do you
want from us?
And they push me like why arewe doing this?
And then others will chime inbecause she's the teacher and
she said so.
That might be true, but I have abetter answer for you here.
We're doing this because and itsurprised me how much they let
(48:01):
their guard down and I realizedthat that's not what's happening
outside of that class the restof their day in that institution
, it's about breaking peopledown and it's not about
rehabilitation, although theseprograms are changing that and
helpful.
But there's a lot of resistance, a lot of pushback from inside
(48:24):
the system Like why these peopleshould be punished, they
shouldn't have these programs.
So it's something, it's reallysomething.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of depth in that
conversation to have and I'mhoping perhaps we can revisit
this in another conversation aswell.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
That sounds great yeah there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
There's a lot there.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Thank you what?
Speaker 2 (48:49):
an absolute pleasure.
I sort of interesting as I wasthinking of closing questions
for you.
I'm always interested to hearfrom others about sort of what's
kind of on their sort ofinspiration board of their minds
(49:11):
, of their hearts at this time.
If you could sort of picturelike these are the things that
light me up, like if your heartand mind were like a Pinterest
board of textures and sounds andtastes and colors and languages
or anything like this, couldyou pull a few that are really
lighting you up, like what'ssomething?
Speaker 3 (49:33):
You.
You're lighting me up right now.
Your sweater is lighting me up.
I love great wild clothes.
I love textures like velvet andcrushed velvet, lighting me up
thinking about seeds and whatmight be planted this year.
(49:56):
Lighting me up about what am Igoing to do with this movement
process.
That's supposed to shake me up.
So, and to be honest, there's acertain flatness I feel right
now with when I have to titratethe news and I read I'm not
turning away, but, wow, I readthe news and then I feel
(50:19):
flattened and I just have to golie down.
So I've been lying down a lot,resting, doing yin yoga.
So it's complicated.
It's complicated.
Yeah, my son is an inspiration.
He's in school and he's talkingabout all this stuff and
(50:41):
learning and quite, quite fun.
So I'm blessed.
And then I have a rascally dog.
That's a trauma dog.
She's really something.
So we have quite a connectionwhen we're just alone together.
But that's some of it, I think.
Plants and water.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
I love that you've included it all.
I love that you included theshiny bits and also shiny but
different, different, differentcolor of things, and also just
sharing the fact that you'regiving yourself that permission
to digest and to rest.
It's really really huge, and Ithink it's very useful right now
(51:21):
as well, as let's not let's notturn away from it.
How can we witness it to thedegree that we can and then also
make sure to take care ofourselves as we?
Speaker 3 (51:31):
right, how could we not be exhausted by this?
Yeah, yeah, but somehow we getup and we try again we try again
.
You know it's like everymorning I light my candle and I
bring the light in.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
That's it.
I'm going now and it's justthat one little bit of light
that I have in the morning andin the evening.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
It's like let's just have a little bit of light
illumination.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
Yeah, we'll have to sing together sometime.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
I can't wait.
I love to sing.
I love to.
So, that being said, do youhave anything you'd like to
share of upcoming programmingthat we can let people know
about?
Anything coming up that youwant to keep people in the know
about?
Speaker 3 (52:24):
Yeah, thank you for asking.
I don't have.
I have a retreat that I'm doingin Mexico but it's full, which
is exciting, very exciting.
And then how to be thoughtfulabout going into another country
and another culture more like apilgrimage than a tourist trip,
(52:45):
so thoughtful about that.
And then, just, I'm justregularly teaching and teach a
lot.
And yeah, the website you couldsee, there's the website for
moving potential, there's thewebsite for the studio.
And there's a lot of otherpeople doing stuff at the studio
.
I just can't believe how muchactivity is happening again
(53:09):
after those times we were shutdown.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
Yeah, which is a whole other conversation.
I want to hear what you'retalking about, like your studio
and your studio, yeah, Nice.
There's just so much to talkabout, but there is.
You've really created abeautiful space.
That I think is just verywelcoming and what you're
(53:33):
offering is truly special.
And it's if anyone is like kindof wants to, I don't know like
have a taste of what I call, Imean, what is real yoga?
What's a real yoga?
Like listen, this is it.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
Give a shout out to my parents and my grandmother,
who were community builders, andyou know my mother would drag
people off the street, basically, and say you want to come over
for a Friday night dinner.
So that was instilled in me.
That that's all for one and onefor all.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
And that's definitely what you've created is
something truly special where,like the moment I walked in,
people are hugging each other.
You know, we were only therefor three days and they're like
I don't know.
I was like, yeah, you know,it's just.
Speaker 3 (54:26):
You don't have to hug anybody when you come, but you
could.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
It's available to you if you need a hug.
If you need it imagine there'ssomeone there who will give you
a hug.
That's why it is.
And it's very much tothemselves, and we respect that,
of course.
Of course and that's I thinkit's something really beautiful
is that people have theopportunity to just be who they
are, come as they are, and to bewelcomed and accepted just as
(54:52):
they are.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
Yes, likewise.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
We could just keep going.
We could just keep going for anhour or two.
Speaker 3 (55:03):
We're on podcasts.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
We'll definitely have you on again because there's so
much more I'd love to hear fromyou, because you really are
someone very special.
So I very much, I bow to youand all of the wisdom that you
carry and thank you so much forcoming on and sharing that.
Thank you, take good care.
So much love.
Yes, and to our dear listener,we'll have all of the
(55:30):
information in the show notes soyou can check out the website.
There's a lot of practices youcan also tune into that are on
the website and also you do theclasses on Zoom as well.
So that is available.
Thank you, all right, sandra.
Thank you, thank you so muchfor coming onto the show.
(55:51):
It's been a sincere pleasure.
Thank you for inviting me.
Be well, all right and my dearlistener, this has been another
episode of the Ode to Joypodcast.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Thank you so much for tuning into this latest episode
.
Dear listener, it is my sincerepleasure to be bringing you
these conversations every weekand, hey, if you enjoyed the
show, I would so appreciatehearing from you.
If you have a moment, why notgo ahead?
Leave us a review, let me knowwhat you think and, if you're
feeling generous, perhaps youthrow in a couple of stars.
(56:25):
I'll talk to you again verysoon, sending you so much love.
Welcome to the Ode to Joy podcast, a show where we
talk about joy how do wecultivate it, how do we maintain
it and what are the things thatget in the way.
I'm your host, elena Vox,bringing you another part of our
Season 2 series, talking allabout the interviews, and this
week we are talking with SandraLorring, queer Witch,
interdisciplinary Artist,choreographer and Director of
(00:22):
Sadhana Center for Yoga andMeditation.
I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello, my dear listener, and welcome back to
another episode of the Ode toJoy podcast.
I'm your host, Elena Vox, andwith me today I have the sincere
pleasure of inviting on my newfriend, Sandra Lorring.
Welcome, Sandra.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Hi Elena.
Thank you, I'm so honored andexcited to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Such a pleasure to have you here on the show.
So for our listener, can youjust lock us into?
Where in the world are youjoining us from today?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yes, I can.
I am on Stockbridge, Mohican,Muncie Land, Hudson, New York,
near the Hudson River, whichflows both ways.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I actually didn't know that.
Does the Hudson flow both ways?
Yes, it does.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
It's a river in estuary.
It's quite amazing.
And the original caretakerscanoed and fished and honored
and had a relationship with theriver very deeply.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'd love to spend more time learning from that
river.
That's really beautiful.
I only know a little bit aboutit and I know that it's gone
through quite a journey, in thelast few decades as well, of
coming back to life.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yes, that's right, and it gives life in so many
ways.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well, where you are is one of really the most
beautiful places I have been toand it's for our listener who's
joining us.
It's about a couple of hoursfrom New York City.
I'm joining you from LongIsland right now and I had the
pleasure of going up to Hudsonmy first time this past New
Year's and my partner and I wentup.
(02:15):
We rented a little cabin rightin sort of in this little
offshoot of the river and, ofcourse, we wanted to go to some
yoga classes.
And he's showing me all ofthese studios and we find
Sadhana and I was like, oh yeah,that's the real deal.
And we got a chat and we foundyou and I saw your picture and I
(02:35):
was like I need to go takeclass with Sandra.
So, for our listeners, sandrais the director of Sadhana,
which is a Center for Yoga andMeditation.
She's 20 years old, which isamazing.
Congratulations, thank you.
We made it so far and I have somany questions about that
journey.
(02:57):
A little bit more about Sandraamazing, amazing person.
Sandra is a queer witch.
It's interdisciplinary artistand choreographer, your movement
and somatic yoga instructor.
Lover of compost, which isphenomenal, and the upside down
(03:17):
also very cool.
An enthusiast of herbalmedicine, which I'd love to hear
more about as well, and asteward of a fox and bird
sanctuary also amazing.
And Sandra is an activecommunity organizer, and I'd
also love to hear a little bitmore about your work with moving
(03:37):
potential, which can you giveus a little sort of description
of what moving potential is aswell?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Sure and the potential.
Quite one of the loves of mylife is a program that brings
trauma-informed yoga andmindfulness and dance to those
impacted by incarceration andaddiction and trauma.
So we work in local jails,prisons, recovery centers, we
(04:05):
work with children with anincarcerated parent and we work
with people that are reenteringafter being incarcerated.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Very, very important work, and I'm very I mean awe
that this is also somethingthat's so crucial and very
important that you're bringingthat to the world.
So thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
My, it gives me so much.
I could go on about that, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, we have so many , so many avenues Talk about
like this.
It's like we're like the HudsonRiver there's so many places to
go, which is absolutelywonderful and a very like juicy,
delicious place to be in thatlived so much life and that you
have so much wisdom that youcarry with you.
And so the topic of the day isthe intermuse, as we're talking
(04:52):
about on season two of the oh ToJoy podcast.
And I guess, like my firstquestion right off the bat, when
I talk about, when I'm thinkingabout you and what I know of
you from just taking classeswith you, would you say like
what part of your yoga teachingwould you say is how do I say?
(05:14):
Would you say it's like thenumber one avenue that your
intermuse and your creativitycomes out of and flows out of,
or would you sort of center adifferent element of yourself,
or is it kind of all woven intogether?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, thank you for that question.
I think it is woven in together.
I am a dancer, choreographer,before I began the yoga journey,
so there's always been movementin my life.
And then I stumbled into a yogaclass when I was on tour with a
(05:50):
dance company and I was like,ah, this is great.
And I tend to be very impulsiveand I dove in very deeply and
went to India many times andimmersed myself and I used to
try to really keep thingsseparate, like this is dance and
this is yoga.
And then at some point, I thinkwith the evolution of yoga
(06:14):
which I'm very happy about theymerged and I became less
concerned about boundaries ofthese things.
And I think that's where manyof us are now, that somatics,
trauma-informed practices, yogapractices, movement practices
(06:35):
are all in a piece, you couldsay so.
They inform me, they inspire me, they're always catching up
with each other and leading eachother on to new rabbit holes.
I love to dive deep into topicsand explore and continue to be
(06:56):
engaged, and that would be theanswer.
I think that it is definitelyinterwoven.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And I feel that just in the practices that I got to
have with you, that it's sort oflike this living, breathing
organism of a practice thatinvites people to really be in
their own experience andexperience themselves as this
human animal in a body.
And I was telling my partnerand he's really one year into
(07:27):
his yoga journey, which is verycute because he's so excited I
remember those were the days butit's so cute because he'll see
some kind of wild arm balanceand he's a strong guy and he
wants to do all the fun fancystuff.
And I'm so glad that I was ableto bring him to your class
(07:48):
because I was trying to explainto him, because your classes,
the way that you teach, is so Iwant to say, like delicate and
specific and strong in a waythat I say you really are a
master teacher, because you know, I tell him when we get this
opportunity to practice withthese master teachers, as you've
(08:09):
learned the form so well enoughthat you know how to break the
form.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, thank you for saying that.
It's so kind.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, and you bring in.
It's not just okay, ladies andgentlemen, we're doing warrior
one okay.
And making people kind of fitinto this box right, it just
becomes this free flowing kindof movement that is, I think, so
nourishing and I think, allowspeople to discover themselves in
(08:39):
a practice where they're nottrying to fit themselves into my
body.
Supposed to look like this inthis pose, but more about how do
I feel?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And I think because I've been doing yoga for so long
that I want to teach a classthat I would want to take.
So that's a tall order, becauseI'm picky.
I'm like I learn a lot fromclasses that I don't like and
don't usually return.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, as they say, the onlypractices you regret are the
ones you don't do, so even theones we're going, you're like
okay, so that wasn't my favorite, but we learned things and,
yeah, I think what you serve isis what I call like gourmet yoga
.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Oh yeah, I don't know exactly what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
it's just tasty and delicious.
You know, it's the kind ofpractice where it's very similar
to the kind of practice that Iteach, where it's like a
conversation with the breath andthe body.
And I love also your queuingbecause it gives people the
opportunity to get curious abouthow their body wants to be in a
(09:58):
shape, and I love yoursuggestions.
It's, it's, it's never Okay,we're going to 100% do this and
put your foot here and thealignment.
You know, your hips must besquared and which, again, I
think it's important perhaps tolearn certain forms, yes, in
some ways, yes, and then to justgive people the permission to,
(10:20):
yeah, treat it almost like adance and also just the
permission that you allow reallythe entire room to be in their
experience.
So you know, when I'm teaching,people kind of make fun of my
friends, make fun of me.
They're always roasting me.
They're like we're alwaysmoaning in your classes.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Well, we are definitely kindred spirits.
As soon as I saw you, I waslike who is that?
And then you helped me.
When I was like wait a minute,we left something out and you
did it, I was like thank you somuch.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Because it's the stuff of yoga teachers.
Nightmares when we're laying inbed at night.
We go oh, we forgot to do that.
That was on that side.
Yeah, yeah, so it's gourmetyoga and I just, I highly
recommend anyone who's listeningif you're in the New York area,
100% get yourself up to Hudson.
It's accessible by train.
Go, yes, it is what's on.
(11:16):
I would welcome you.
Wow, ok, so let's.
I'd love to bring it back toyour origins in dance and can
you give us a little bit of astory of of how you got into
dance?
Like, bring us into baby Sandrazone.
Like when did you first, kindof when did you feel the muse on
(11:36):
the wind that you you heard thecall and you might want to move
my body.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Well, it is a little funny in that I took a few
ballet classes I guess there's apicture of me as a rabbit and
when I was four and I came homeone day and I said to my mother,
I'm not going back, they don'tever let us rest.
So then I never went back untilI was working with a beautiful
(12:08):
company in California.
Those were the days whenCalifornia gave a grant to
artists to teach and then thegrant was also for young people
to take their classes.
So I was in class with a mannamed Michael Gonzalez,
beautiful artist who's no longerwith us, and he has a company
(12:29):
called the Mime Caravan andinvited me to be part of the
Mime Caravan.
And we did in the style ofbread and puppet and Meredith
among giant puppets and fantasy.
We started a parade in SantaBarbara, the summer solstice
parade, which gave.
We then gave to the city and Ithink they're like ten thousand
(12:50):
people that come every year.
Now it's continued since andone of the women in the company
said come and take this danceclass, he's really cool.
And I went and I was like thathappens once in a while, like
lightning strikes, and I'm likethis is it.
And I studied with him, richardBurroughs, and he left Santa
(13:14):
Barbara to.
He got a job at UC Riversideteaching dance and I said I'm
going to follow him.
And so I went because I hadbeen taking a gap period from
high school.
I was like I'm not going tocollege.
And then I was like I'm goingto college now Because rich is
there.
And I danced with him and I'mvery impulsive again.
I did one semester and I movedto New York.
(13:35):
I'm going to be a dancer.
And New York said no, you'renot, we don't even care about
you at all.
And I cried a lot.
And then he we were talking onthe phone and rich said I
started a dance company inCalifornia.
Do you want to come back?
And I said I'm on the plane andI finished my degree and I
(13:56):
danced with him around SouthernCalifornia and then I moved back
to New York and the experiencehas started flowing.
I got into different companies.
I'm a very magpie person,anything that shiny.
I danced with many, manychoreographers I'm very grateful
and they they have an imprinton my body to this day and I
(14:22):
then became an organizer.
So I started an improvisationfestival and I started
underground dance and I neverlooked back.
You know, I'm still making work, I'm still choreographing.
And then on tour, like I said, Istumbled into this yoga class.
It was called a stronger prep.
Oh my, you know, they weren'treally allowed to teach a stong
(14:46):
unless you were given permission.
And I was like this is amazing.
And she was Australian.
And she said, yes, it's verybeautiful.
And I said do you know ifthere's anything like this in
New York?
And she said yes, there's a mannamed Eddie Stern.
And so I found Eddie.
All this was underground, youknow, there wasn't a yoga studio
on every block.
(15:06):
There were no yoga teachertrainings.
I found Eddie very impulsively.
I studied for a little bit.
I went to India and to studywith Patabi Joyce and just, of
course, those of you in the know, I do not condone the behavior
of Patabi Joyce.
The practice is beautiful.
I did it for a few years andthen I'm too much of a magpie,
(15:29):
so I just went out from thereand started piecing things
together and exploring.
I did a lot of different stylesof yoga while I was still
dancing.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Oh yes, You've introduced a lot of really
beautiful little rivulets thatI'd love to go down, because,
well, it's very interesting, Ithink, when it comes to
someone's yoga journey is howpeople come to it and then sort
of the paths that they take andhow it really informs them and
(16:01):
their movement practice.
And I love how you said thatyou're this magpie, that you
just kind of find the next shinything and you follow it, and I
think it's really beautiful tocontinue to follow that sort of
inspiration.
And then also just the fact thatyou were there, you were like
boots on the ground before yogabecame what it is, and that I'm
(16:29):
super, super, super interestedin, and I hope that we're able
to kind of like follow this andflow down this river in a way
that is really nourishing totalk about for you and for me.
I'm just so curious reallyabout you know, you were on the
scene, like you said, when therewasn't a yoga teacher training
(16:51):
and there weren't.
You know you had to really findthe teachers.
And then the teachers I'mcurious like the teachers that
you found, because they were sofew and far between they.
I'm assuming that they musthave had to have been very
highly vetted and had really putin the work, and was it?
Was it kind of more of like alike you had to sort of knock on
the door to be let in, kind ofa thing, or yeah, you had to go
(17:13):
sit outside the door for a whileuntil they let you in.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Basically, yeah, yes, it was like that and there I
didn't know that much but I,because of my movement
background and dance background,I knew what felt right in my
body.
So I would trust people becauseof that and I had a certain
amount of faith and confidenceabout trusting that transmission
(17:38):
which is so magical to me.
How do you transmit a physicalpractice from one person to
another?
And the Ashdanga tradition youknow they're not showing you,
they're speaking and guiding youthrough this practice that you
memorize and then it becomesyour own, which was very rich,
so I could take it on tour and Icould do it in hotel rooms and
(18:02):
it really informed a foundation,I think, for a practice,
because a lot of people are likeI'd like to do things on my own
, but I don't know where tobegin.
And I totally relate and it'sit's a learning things by heart.
You know that saying is verypowerful.
It's like you learn it by heartand then you, then it becomes
(18:24):
part of you.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, people talk about muscle memory, but I love
that even more.
Like you learn it by heart andthen it becomes a part of you,
so that, like I said, you'velearned the form and then, once
you've built this deepconnection with your body, then
you can sort of begin to coloroutside the lines a bit.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
A bit for sure, and I think, because I've always
created movement and art andmade up songs as a child, and I
love how, as a child, you gointo this imaginal world that
everybody supports and then, assoon as you get to be an adult,
it's like oh, by the way, that'sover, it wasn't real, it's like
(19:07):
what?
So I definitely rejected that,but that creativity took over.
It's like I'm not.
I'm not one to to repeat.
As you know from taking a fewclasses, I don't repeat myself
much.
I mean, of course, there arethings that always are the same
(19:28):
and you're different when you dothem.
But love to put things togetherin new ways, shake things up,
novelty as a practice ofmindfulness.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And I love that you've also maintained this
sense of enchantment with life.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I have Wildly.
So I don't know why, but I'mjust as excited about teaching
now as I was when I started.
And when I started, I thinkback again, there was no yoga
teacher trainings.
I'd been teaching dance.
So I was like, well, I'm goingto teach yoga, started in the
gym at NYU and the cold basementwith fluorescent lights, and I
don't really know what I wasteaching.
(20:09):
To be honest, I look back andI'm like, but I think I probably
knew a little bit more than thestudents who came Right, and
then the chanting went alongwith that too.
I'm a person that loves to sing.
There's a song that I hear fromthe universe as well.
So I began chanting without anyaccompaniment and I just had to
(20:34):
do it and people were like, ohboy, we were doing the Gayatri
mantra and, I think, loving it.
I think there was a longingthat people have.
I think there is a longing thatpeople have to be connected, to
be connected to the animateforces in the world, to sing
(20:55):
back to the universe, which isalways singing to us, and that
idea you mentioned about theinner muse.
I'm kind of a person that lovesto understand the word that I'm
trying to figure out.
So I was thinking about what isa muse, and I want to kind of
(21:15):
tease that apart a little bit.
I was thinking that a muse, isit a person?
Does it have to be a person tobe a muse?
I think it's a place wherethere's creativity, where
there's a shared interest and anexploration of falling apart,
of dissolving, of floating andthen remembering.
(21:38):
And there's an offering aboutfeeding the muse.
Like you would feed your demons, you could feed the muse.
And if it isn't a person, ifit's more than a human, then the
trees become a muse and theriver becomes a muse and the
breath becomes a muse.
However it could be, thenanything.
So it doesn't have to belimited to that small definition
(22:02):
of there's a person thatbecomes your muse.
That's my reflection on that.
Teasing that apart a little bit,I love that, yeah, and when you
invited me, you said somethingabout genius and I really wanted
to dive into that word.
What does that mean?
(22:23):
And in the ancient times,genius was something that was
other than human.
It was like a force that wentthrough you.
So you don't have to be sonarcissistic about your
creativity that there wasanother force that you could
want either share credit withfor your wonderful creation.
(22:47):
Or you could also absolvecredit and say I guess my genius
was lame.
Today, and also the definitionfor me of genius would be that
it's something that one loves,that to be loved, to feel love,
(23:08):
is genius.
Or it could be the traditionaldefinition of that.
You get so good at somethingthat other people notice your
genius.
They're a genius.
Well, we're all geniuses.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Thank you.
Thank you for teasing thatapart and yes, that's very much
part of the conversation and I'malways curious to see how my
guests kind of interact withthis idea, because I like to
view it sometimes as sort oflike something outside of myself
(23:42):
, something to inspire myartistry, my creativity, and
I'll kind of get on theseconcepts or ideas or feelings.
I'm like a Francophile, so Ilove the French language and
then I'll kind of go into Frenchart and film and then I think
it has the ability to sort oftransport you and put you in a
(24:03):
different mind space and, fromthat place, creating from there.
And I love also what you saidabout using nature as a muse,
because it's constantly having aconversation with us if we, I
think, can get quiet enough tounderstand that we're always in
this co-creation with it.
Right In the moment we are.
(24:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Being able to listen.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And sometimes I think people find that a little funny
.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Of course, you know what I?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Of course.
So I talk about sitting beneatha tree or having a conversation
with a tree or a leaf, orbreathing with a tree and listen
, don't knock it till you try it, because they have things to
teach us.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
There are ancestors they're way older than we are,
first of all and they I often goto a tree and instead of asking
a question, I'll say what doyou want me to know?
I guess that is a question, butjust listening, and they always
are so generous, they're likethink about this, feel this here
now.
How can I age gracefully likeyou have?
(25:11):
That's a big one for me at thispoint in my life.
It's like I need some guidance.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And how interesting also, just that the trees have
different wisdom for us atdifferent times in our lives,
different aspects of nature.
But I mean the trees, theyreally get me.
I mean I remember when I wasgoing through the process of
providing support to my fatherduring his dying process.
I remember sitting in thebackyard and everything around
(25:41):
me.
There was so much how do I say?
It was a very nebulous spacebecause there was no clear cut
time of well, he's definitelygoing to die on this day or
anything.
You know, he's just kind of inthis waiting period and this.
Liminal space yeah, liminalspace, for sure.
And I remember just staring atthis tree and looking at all of
(26:03):
its leaves and seeing that theleaves were moving and they were
interacting at the wind, andthen just looking at the trunk
and seeing how still it was andknowing deep down I had this
sort of like it's a very simpleyet profound revelation that,
even though it looked as if itwas completely standing still
and nothing was happening, thatin fact there was a lot going on
(26:24):
inside, that there was stillgrowth, even in the pause and in
the stillness, and even if itlooks like there's nothing
happening, there's always I knowI'm like why do drugs?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I mean, I'm tripping just sitting under that tree.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
You heard it here first.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yes, you want to have a good time?
Go find your local tree.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
So good, it's so true , it's so true.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And I wish that everybody and everybody deserves
to have that access, whichisn't so, and that is a sorrow
that I feel about this world.
Not everybody has access togreen, to space, to trees, to
water, and I definitely want toshare my heart sorrow with the
(27:17):
situation in the world right now.
The brokenness that we've knownhas been there for a long time,
but it's still shocking andsaddening about Gaza and all the
places that are at war and theworld right now, where it's a
tragic and beautiful world.
Is it not broken and beautiful?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And you've brought up something that I was just about
to go down as well, which issort of like how do you in your
life, how do you maintain thatsense of enchantment when
there's this sort ofjuxtaposition between that and
the reality of what we're facingright now in this world?
(28:02):
And have there been times inyour life where you didn't feel
the sparkle and you didn't seethe shiny thing as the magma and
the world seemed bleak and allyou were in was it?
It was sort of the darkness ofit, which I think is also
valuable for sure.
And how yeah, I guess sort ofhow have you navigated that and
(28:22):
to kind of get that almostsprinkling of like fairy dust
back in those times?
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Yeah, thank you for that question.
It's a challenging question,for sure.
I definitely believe that Istarted teaching yoga and I was
offering this practice that Iloved and I was receiving so
much from, but over time Irealized that my students were
teaching me about love, and thatwas a revelation.
(28:52):
And so there's such acommitment and, I think, a
responsibility, perhaps a littleharsh, but I feel that I always
want to be there for them andhold space and co-create this
experience, which is goingthrough the yoga fairy door, so
(29:13):
to speak, going into the woodsand going through a little fairy
door, and then it's different.
The light is different, how welisten is different, and coming
together to be able to fallapart, coming together to be
alone, these are very inspiringways of being for me.
So I'm always it feels likeeach class is new again sharing
(29:38):
what is lighting me up and thenasking them what do you think of
this?
So we have some talks, sometimesin yoga class, which is usually
unheard of.
You ask a question.
Everybody's like deer in thehead, like we're supposed to
speak.
I don't do that every class oranything, but every now and then
I'm like who's with you today?
(29:59):
What are you bringing in andpeople have a lot to say.
They always have a lot to sayand that interaction is how we
grow and how we feel connectedto each other, because it's very
lonely this period of time,perhaps all periods of time to
be in this human form.
It's so mystifying.
(30:22):
So I'm trying to find themystical without it being
mystifying, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, I think you've touched on something really
important, which is that crucialneed of community as we go
through life in general, anddefinitely these times where
there is a lot of reallyheartbreaking contrast, where we
need community to be able tofall apart, to be alone in and I
(30:49):
think that's what's so specialabout a yoga class a good, good,
nice container of a yoga classwhere you can go and it's
something that I've found duringmy travels, no matter where I
am in the world to find a yogaclass, and then I know that I
can be there and I can witnessand be witnessed without having
(31:09):
to say a word and then, if I sochoose, I can interact.
But I think it's something very, very special to be in that
space and to be in spaces likethat.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, I think it has the components of ritual and
rhythm and rigor.
And I'm interested that yousaid something about the classes
are strong.
I do not generally teach agentle yoga class.
I teach a strength building,mobility enhancing class that's
(31:43):
got rhythm and it's a ritual tome.
We come in, we chant om, we gothrough the yoga fairy door, do
this ritual together.
We come out, we centerourselves because it's very
vulnerable in that place.
We center ourselves beforestepping back out onto Warren
Street.
So there's also protectioninvolved.
(32:05):
The mantras are protective, theidea of that everything isn't
okay and we want to be aware andhey, hamdukam anagatam, see the
trouble to come and cross thestreet.
Grateful sorrow is a term DaveSmith used.
(32:29):
He's a meditation teacher and Iwas really moved by that that
our sorrow holds so much aboutpointing to what's meaningful to
us.
So there's always space in myclasses for people to feel
sorrow, to feel grief, and oftenthere's this toxic positivity
which I really gets my hacklesup Open your heart these
(32:53):
platitudes that teachers saywithout really really thinking
about.
Well, if you open your heartall the time, it's too much.
You need to close.
If you're doing a chest opener,the back of your heart is
closing.
So what are you talking about?
Very particular, there's my wordthing I want to say things that
(33:17):
are accurate.
I want the cues, I want them tobe inclusive.
I want the student to haveagency, but there's still a form
there, so it's not free for all, which I love, but that's a
different time.
So those are some thoughtsabout the gifts that yoga has,
that the sadness can, what I'velost, are also what I'm most
(33:42):
grateful for.
And to avoid that, to controlthat, to try to push that away,
I think we lose a lot ofinformation about being human
and the sorrow, as we canimagine, could then be matched
with joy or appreciation.
The body and mind very, verywise given a chance.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Beautifully said.
I'm looking forward tolistening to that again.
Yes, I think something you saidWow, yeah, it's good, it's
really good.
It's something you said also islike when we think of heart
openers is you know, have youcreated a space, are you in a
space where, if you do crackopen your heart, does this space
(34:25):
that you're in, does it havethe capacity to hold what's in
there as well?
Does it have the capacity tohold the grief, or is it like,
hey guys, we're just going to doa monster heart opener, right?
Speaker 3 (34:37):
And you're going to cry.
Oh, good luck to you.
You know, crying for three daysand the teachers nowhere to be
found.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
And this is something I'd love to sort of lead into,
if you feel ready and open tosharing your piece of writing
about ritual, because you'vecreated what you create in your
yoga spaces is a place wherepeople can come together and
have that sort of sense ofsafety.
And then, yeah, I am curious ifyou would like to just share a
(35:16):
few words on sort of theimportance of safety and then
how you can kind of create thisspace of ritual for me.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Thank, you I would love to.
I wrote something entitledRitual Instructions.
One be still for a long time.
Two fetch the basket, yourfavorite one made of dark reeds,
oblong in shape, big enough toswaddle a baby inside and float
it down the Nile.
Three it's too heavy to liftlike there are river stones
(35:48):
waiting it down.
Peering inside, there's onlyemptiness.
Four make a fire in the basket.
Add the red sky of the morning,mahakasha, dripping, sweet
water melted from the recentsnowfall to create smoke.
Five see how is it much lighternow, light enough to drag to
the cleared patch of earth.
(36:09):
Brush the ground.
Six lay sticks in a pattern,leaves and flowers, if it's
spring, summer or fall.
Seven add your wildness,queerness, longing, desire,
dreams and lie face down besidethe basket, listen to the
birdsong and the tree speak.
Eight add your sister's,parkinson's, your addictions,
(36:32):
your fears, hatreds, cravings.
Basket is heavy again.
Are you surprised you forgot toadd love?
Do it now, it's never too late.
Nine begin to hum and then singfrom some adivistic place, deep
and guttural.
Add rocking or swaying.
Sing forever and a day.
Ten sit still in the quiet fora long time before you leave.
(36:56):
Pray to the dignity in yourspine, the connection in your
ribs, your ancestors at yourback, the unknown before you
Rest in your heart.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Really beautiful.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Thank you for sharing .
It's my life raft.
Honestly, people say how do youkeep doing it over and over?
I'm like I don't know.
It's my life raft.
It's not altruistic, I'm sorryto say, but I'm in this too,
like Mary Oliver, you standaround and you open your arms,
(37:34):
not like standing around, butmaybe something will come to you
some leaf or coil of wind, sometree, because they're in this
too.
It's a fairy door.
Now.
There's a lot of joy andlaughter and making fun of.
(37:57):
It's all there.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
It's all there and that's part of the reason I'm
just so.
I feel so blessed that we'vebeen put in each other's paths,
because I think there'ssomething truly special about
holding the wisdom that you doand maintaining such an amazing
sense of humor and not takingyourself so seriously.
(38:22):
Wow, so good, because it's likethe more we learn, the more we
realize we don't know and themore we realize we need to learn
.
Maintain that sense ofcontinuing to learn and
continuing to be in conversation, because you're a part of the
ride.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Thank you, right, right, thank you.
So some people it's to takeyourself out of the center and
some people do that too much andit's like put yourself in the
center for a second.
That's why being prescriptiveis very dangerous.
There isn't one way.
Even though we have a lot ofsimilarities, our different
(38:58):
experiences demand that we tastethings and try them and then,
like a goat, they don't eateverything.
Actually, if they eat somethingthey don't like, they spit it
out.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Speaking of which, this is something I'll bring us
back to earlier in theconversation, if you're willing
to go down this little rabbithole with me.
I'm curious about yourexperience in the role of a
mentor in your life, becauseit's really beautiful, I feel,
in many ways.
(39:31):
Now you are in this role ofmentor to so many people and I'm
curious about your experiencein taking on being sort of the
student and the role of mentorsin your life.
And I'm really curious aboutthis for other people, creative
people, which is really just allpeople, people who are willing
(39:52):
to kind of listen to the voiceand follow and how in other
people's lives I like to studyother artists, people who
inspire me, and I love to sortof see, oh so they study with
that person, they study withthat person.
And I'm curious to hear becauseyou did share a bit about the
(40:14):
mentors that were in your life,and I guess I'm sort of curious
about your experience in havingmentors in your life.
Perhaps also what can happenwhat has happened in my life too
of sort of when you reach thatpoint where, as the goat, it's
kind of like you're eating,eating, and then you kind of get
to a point where like, okay,then you go, okay.
(40:35):
So now my path here has changedand I have to have to move on
to perhaps a different mentor orshift gears which, yeah, I'm
just curious about yourexperience in that, as you've
been on this lifelong journey ofhaving this conversation with
your inner genius, with yourmuse and, yeah, the role of the
mentor in your life, oh it's big.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
I have to say I'm always at the feet of so many
different people.
A lot of them they don't knowthat.
It's like I'm your friend butyou don't know that.
So definitely women, inparticular women writers.
(41:18):
I did a three-year program withJudith Schmidt and Alexis
Johnson about trauma and neuroscience and they really were
mentors to me.
I looked towards incredibleblack women and black farmers in
my region as mentors workingwith the land, and it goes on.
(41:43):
It kind of goes on and on.
You know, like I'm always.
I'm an eternal student, as manyof us are.
I study all the time.
I read.
Pandemic was really a time whenI just I love the library.
I would have this.
They have the thing where youcould order online and then they
(42:06):
would put it your books in apaper bag and you can go pick
them up and they would drawlittle pictures on the bag.
It was very cute and I wouldorder like 10 books and of
course, I wasn't going to readthem all, but I would just like
hold them.
I would just hold one and thenI would give it back.
So books are a mentor to me.
Writers, poets, mary Oliver,those that many of us follow,
(42:31):
but my own study with a fan ofRitual, josh Schreie.
I love Iyana Young and herpodcast for the wild, so you
know that's an endless question.
I'm always at the feet ofsomeone and giving them credit,
because I have very few originalideas in my humble opinion.
(42:54):
I just am caught by people'sbrilliance.
I mean, thinking gets a bad rapand meditation, I'm like
thinking, is what created theseincredible things, so let's not
throw it all out with thebathwater, if you know what I
mean.
And I just received the grantdance grant where the grant is
(43:18):
for process, meaning I don'thave to make a piece, but I did
have to choose a mentor.
So I know I'm so excited.
Ann Carlson, and an incrediblechoreographer in this country,
has agreed to be my mentor.
So I'm looking forward to thenext bit of time, having my
process shaken up ready.
(43:40):
Shake me up.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
That's it.
That's it.
It's like the moment we sort offeel that we're becoming too
rigid, it's like, oh, we got tobreak the form again, add in
something.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Yeah, challenge me, challenge me, and then I'm going
to turn around and challengeyou.
I'm going to pass on that gift.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Beautiful.
I'm curious.
Also, in your work of passingon your gift, I would like to
hear a bit about the work thatyou're doing with moving
potential.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Yeah, see, now that's where I just light up like a
recent incandescent bulb.
Again, I went in because Ithought I could be useful and
share yoga and then I learned somuch about love with these
elegant, eloquent, enthusiasticpeople that have been thrown
(44:35):
away.
The system should be abolishedand, in the meantime, trying to
make it more humane, create aspace where people can feel they
can say, without fear of beingpunished, what's on their mind.
We write a lot, we do thesewild dance improvisations.
(44:57):
I'm working with men in amedium security prison teaching
them dance.
For goodness sakes, I can'teven get men to come to class
that aren't incarcerated.
So I am in love with them andwe, I think, might eventually
make a piece, but they teach meand we have created, created,
(45:20):
co-created this space where oneof them said this is the only
place I don't feel like aconvict and it breaks my heart
open in the best way.
Every time we do meditation, wetalk about grateful sorrow, we
talk about everything, and theywrite beautifully and we share,
and then they do authenticmovement and they do trust falls
(45:43):
and they learn a phrase andthey walk around and then they
crawl around the floor and it'sjust wild to me, and every
Thursday I can't wait.
I'm like what's going to happentoday?
What's going to happen today?
But then now there's a team ofus, so there's teachers in
(46:03):
recovery.
We did the first in the nationyoga teacher training for women
in a mandated recovery center.
There have been trainings inprison and jail perhaps, but not
in a recovery center and so fareight women have graduated with
their teaching certificate andthat is huge in terms of
(46:24):
confidence and raising their,their wrestling with their self
loathing and self worth.
So it is, I'm just runningalong behind it.
I did start it and it's justbeen growing and growing.
And it's still just small, it'slocal, but I'm excited and
(46:46):
honored and have yet to seewhere it will continue to go,
but I'm there with it.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
I'm curious was there anything about diving into this
work initially that surprisedyou, having been a teacher of
yoga and dance for so long andthen being sort of in a
different environment?
Was there anything thatsurprised you or anything that
you had to sort of unlearn orlearn in this new space?
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Sure, and that reminds me.
We do a yoga program at mystudio and it's called the
Untraining Reframing, because wereally are untraining ourselves
a lot.
Honestly, I thought I would gointo the prison and that
everybody your worst nightmarewould sit there with their arms
crossed and be like, yeah, andthat was so surprising.
(47:37):
They weren't like that at all.
They were like hmm, and askedme good questions, what do you
want from us?
And they push me like why arewe doing this?
And then others will chime inbecause she's the teacher and
she said so.
That might be true, but I have abetter answer for you here.
We're doing this because and itsurprised me how much they let
(48:01):
their guard down and I realizedthat that's not what's happening
outside of that class the restof their day in that institution
, it's about breaking peopledown and it's not about
rehabilitation, although theseprograms are changing that and
helpful.
But there's a lot of resistance, a lot of pushback from inside
(48:24):
the system Like why these peopleshould be punished, they
shouldn't have these programs.
So it's something, it's reallysomething.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of depth in that
conversation to have and I'mhoping perhaps we can revisit
this in another conversation aswell.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
That sounds great yeah there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
There's a lot there.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Thank you what?
Speaker 2 (48:49):
an absolute pleasure.
I sort of interesting as I wasthinking of closing questions
for you.
I'm always interested to hearfrom others about sort of what's
kind of on their sort ofinspiration board of their minds
(49:11):
, of their hearts at this time.
If you could sort of picturelike these are the things that
light me up, like if your heartand mind were like a Pinterest
board of textures and sounds andtastes and colors and languages
or anything like this, couldyou pull a few that are really
lighting you up, like what'ssomething?
Speaker 3 (49:33):
You.
You're lighting me up right now.
Your sweater is lighting me up.
I love great wild clothes.
I love textures like velvet andcrushed velvet, lighting me up
thinking about seeds and whatmight be planted this year.
(49:56):
Lighting me up about what am Igoing to do with this movement
process.
That's supposed to shake me up.
So, and to be honest, there's acertain flatness I feel right
now with when I have to titratethe news and I read I'm not
turning away, but, wow, I readthe news and then I feel
(50:19):
flattened and I just have to golie down.
So I've been lying down a lot,resting, doing yin yoga.
So it's complicated.
It's complicated.
Yeah, my son is an inspiration.
He's in school and he's talkingabout all this stuff and
(50:41):
learning and quite, quite fun.
So I'm blessed.
And then I have a rascally dog.
That's a trauma dog.
She's really something.
So we have quite a connectionwhen we're just alone together.
But that's some of it, I think.
Plants and water.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
I love that you've included it all.
I love that you included theshiny bits and also shiny but
different, different, differentcolor of things, and also just
sharing the fact that you'regiving yourself that permission
to digest and to rest.
It's really really huge, and Ithink it's very useful right now
(51:21):
as well, as let's not let's notturn away from it.
How can we witness it to thedegree that we can and then also
make sure to take care ofourselves as we?
Speaker 3 (51:31):
right, how could we not be exhausted by this?
Yeah, yeah, but somehow we getup and we try again we try again
.
You know it's like everymorning I light my candle and I
bring the light in.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
That's it.
I'm going now and it's justthat one little bit of light
that I have in the morning andin the evening.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
It's like let's just have a little bit of light
illumination.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
Yeah, we'll have to sing together sometime.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
I can't wait.
I love to sing.
I love to.
So, that being said, do youhave anything you'd like to
share of upcoming programmingthat we can let people know
about?
Anything coming up that youwant to keep people in the know
about?
Speaker 3 (52:24):
Yeah, thank you for asking.
I don't have.
I have a retreat that I'm doingin Mexico but it's full, which
is exciting, very exciting.
And then how to be thoughtfulabout going into another country
and another culture more like apilgrimage than a tourist trip,
(52:45):
so thoughtful about that.
And then, just, I'm justregularly teaching and teach a
lot.
And yeah, the website you couldsee, there's the website for
moving potential, there's thewebsite for the studio.
And there's a lot of otherpeople doing stuff at the studio
.
I just can't believe how muchactivity is happening again
(53:09):
after those times we were shutdown.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
Yeah, which is a whole other conversation.
I want to hear what you'retalking about, like your studio
and your studio, yeah, Nice.
There's just so much to talkabout, but there is.
You've really created abeautiful space.
That I think is just verywelcoming and what you're
(53:33):
offering is truly special.
And it's if anyone is like kindof wants to, I don't know like
have a taste of what I call, Imean, what is real yoga?
What's a real yoga?
Like listen, this is it.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
Give a shout out to my parents and my grandmother,
who were community builders, andyou know my mother would drag
people off the street, basically, and say you want to come over
for a Friday night dinner.
So that was instilled in me.
That that's all for one and onefor all.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
And that's definitely what you've created is
something truly special where,like the moment I walked in,
people are hugging each other.
You know, we were only therefor three days and they're like
I don't know.
I was like, yeah, you know,it's just.
Speaker 3 (54:26):
You don't have to hug anybody when you come, but you
could.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
It's available to you if you need a hug.
If you need it imagine there'ssomeone there who will give you
a hug.
That's why it is.
And it's very much tothemselves, and we respect that,
of course.
Of course and that's I thinkit's something really beautiful
is that people have theopportunity to just be who they
are, come as they are, and to bewelcomed and accepted just as
(54:52):
they are.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
Yes, likewise.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
We could just keep going.
We could just keep going for anhour or two.
Speaker 3 (55:03):
We're on podcasts.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
We'll definitely have you on again because there's so
much more I'd love to hear fromyou, because you really are
someone very special.
So I very much, I bow to youand all of the wisdom that you
carry and thank you so much forcoming on and sharing that.
Thank you, take good care.
So much love.
Yes, and to our dear listener,we'll have all of the
(55:30):
information in the show notes soyou can check out the website.
There's a lot of practices youcan also tune into that are on
the website and also you do theclasses on Zoom as well.
So that is available.
Thank you, all right, sandra.
Thank you, thank you so muchfor coming onto the show.
(55:51):
It's been a sincere pleasure.
Thank you for inviting me.
Be well, all right and my dearlistener, this has been another
episode of the Ode to Joypodcast.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Thank you so much for tuning into this latest episode
.
Dear listener, it is my sincerepleasure to be bringing you
these conversations every weekand, hey, if you enjoyed the
show, I would so appreciatehearing from you.
If you have a moment, why notgo ahead?
Leave us a review, let me knowwhat you think and, if you're
feeling generous, perhaps youthrow in a couple of stars.
(56:25):
I'll talk to you again verysoon, sending you so much love.
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