August 29, 2025 • 29 mins
In this second Bonus Episode to end Season 8 of the podcast we look at the subject of Great War veterans and in particular Malcolm Vyvyan who served as a Siege Battery officer in the Royal Garrison Artillery on the Somme, Arras and Flanders, and was awarded the Military Cross in 1917.
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SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
In the second of our bonus episodes, we look at the
memoirs of a siege batterygunner in the Great War, Malcolm
Vivian, a First World Warveteran who I first met 40 years
ago.
And this is some of his story.
Welcome to the second of ourSeason 8 bonus episodes.
(00:25):
The main podcast season is overbefore we return for Season 9 in
September, but these episodesare something extra to round the
season off, but with it a littlebit shorter than the main
podcasts.
In this bonus episode, we returnto the subject of Great War
(00:45):
Veterans, something that is atthe heart, really, of the Old
Frontline podcast in so manyways.
If you've been listening to thispodcast for a while, you will
know that back in the 1980s and90s, I was very, very lucky to
interview a substantial numberof First World War veterans,
(01:06):
over 350 of them.
And I was living then in Sussex,so close to Kent and Hampshire
as well, which was a bigretirement area for people from
all over the UK.
And at that time, in what wasthen around about the 70th
(01:26):
anniversary of the First WorldWar, there was a huge number of
veterans alive, and it wasn'teasy to necessarily track them
down in those far-offpre-internet days.
To track anybody down wasn't aneasy prospect, but there were a
few ways of doing it.
Martin Middlebrook, for example,in the back of his First Day of
(01:49):
the Somme book, listed all ofthe veterans that he'd
interviewed for the research,And for some reason, and when I
asked him about this many yearslater, he couldn't really
explain it.
For some reason, he listed thetown and the county where they
were living at the time that hespoke to them.
And using phone books, you couldtrack these guys down.
(02:09):
And I would go to my library,made a list of all the ones that
were in Sussex, for example,went through the phone books,
found them.
And then got home and rang theseguys up and said, are you Mr.
Brown who was in the MiddlesexRegiment in Mash Valley?
Did you serve at Guimauve orwherever it was?
And got quite a good positiveresponse to this.
(02:33):
None of them put the phone downon me.
Mostly they were very pleased tobe asked that question and
wanted to have a chat about it.
And I used to kind of assessthem on the phone to see what
they were like, how chatty theywere, what kind of language they
used to describe aspects of thewar, and then would kind of take
it from there.
And there were some that youcould sense were a bit reticent,
(02:54):
and I didn't push that.
It wasn't my place to push themto talk about something that
obviously had affected them insuch a way.
But there were others I couldalso sense that they were
absolutely chomping at the bitto talk about it.
I think I tapped into thatgeneration right at the...
correct time that they'd got tothis point where they were
almost confessional and wantedto somehow impart that
(03:19):
experience that they'd had butto a stranger not to their own
family not to their kith and kinbut to someone who'd come along
ask them the right questionsthat they could trust in as much
of a way they could trust astranger and many of them I got
to know very well and theyhopefully got to trust me very
well too and And that incredibleperiod of my life when I was
(03:43):
interviewing these guys began.
And I started when I was atschool in my own town.
But when I went off touniversity living right down on
the south coast, I discoveredquite a few retirement homes.
And in those were substantialnumbers of First World War
veterans.
So it kind of went from thereand I expanded out into Kent and
(04:03):
to Hampshire.
But I also ended up goingabroad.
all around the country, up toDerbyshire, up to Sheffield,
even up to Barnsley, long beforeI ever lived there.
I went up to Barnsley to go toan event to meet some of the
very last Barnsley pals, forexample.
So it was an incredible momentand I think at times I perhaps
(04:25):
didn't always realise howsignificant it was because this
was that kind of one minute tomidnight moment for that
generation.
Within a decade or so of mebeginning to talk to these men,
the vast majority of them that Ispoke to were gone and the ones
that had very long periods ofwartime service or had achieved
(04:49):
rank, they too went very, veryquickly because I just caught
the kind of tail end of thosekind of soldiers who were there.
If I jumped on a decade or sofrom when I began interviewing
these men what you were leftwith were 18 and 19 year old
conscripts who'd served in thelast months of the war and there
was nothing wrong with that ofcourse it was incredibly
(05:11):
interesting talking to these menwhose early youth had been
defined by war experience andthey had a very different
perspective often to the menwho'd volunteered right at the
beginning but they only saw Afraction of the war.
Compared to some.
Who I've mentioned many times.
Like George Butler.
Who was there from 1915.
(05:34):
Right through to when he wasbadly wounded.
In the Battle of the Lease inApril 1918.
And many many others besides.
So my search process.
began far and wide and when Ijoined the Western Front
Association which was a FirstWorld War remembrance
organisation founded by authorJohn Giles again someone I've
mentioned many times on thepodcast the WFA was a fantastic
(05:57):
organisation to join for a youngbudding historian like me
fascinated by the Great War itoffered so much the magazine the
early ones and I have them allon my bookcase I'm just looking
across to them now I have themall there and they have so much
information in there and many ofit from veterans and some of the
veterans used to put littleadverts in there with their
(06:20):
addresses and I used to write tothem and ask if I could come and
see them or talk to them so thatwas another way into meeting
some of these guys and I thenput some little adverts in there
myself about specific bits ofinformation and I inquired in
one about a siege batteryofficer who'd been killed at the
Battle of Messines and for somereason I got his siege battery
(06:40):
wrong he was 93rd siege batteryand for some reason I put 96 and
a veteran member of the WFA readthat saw the name of his unit 96
Siege Battery Royal GarrisonArtillery being an officer in
that unit himself he kneweveryone that served in it he
had their unit history and thisman was not listed and was not
(07:00):
known to him so he wrote to meto say I think you've got this
wrong because he definitelydidn't serve with our unit and
that got us chatting and thatperson was Malcolm Vivian and he
became one of of my closestveteran friends there was a
group of them I interviewed allthose hundreds but there was a
group of them a small selectgroup through lots of different
(07:23):
circumstances that I becameparticularly close to and he was
definitely one of them now helived a long way from me I was
just about to go off touniversity down to that Sussex
coast and he lived down inPlymouth in fact he lived at
Saltash and I went to see him,went down that summer, took a
bus down there, went over tomeet him.
(07:46):
We went down the pub a fewtimes.
I was there for a few days andwe met up on several occasions.
And then I would go back and I'dgo back and I'd go back because
not only did he contact me and Iwrote back to him, when I wrote
back to him, I sent him astamped address envelope.
I mean, who remembers thosethese days?
And in fact, I've got thatstamped address envelope in
(08:06):
front of me now.
I'm looking at it.
It's got my old address stickeron it and the postmark is
Plymouth Cornwall West Devonstamped 5th February 1985 And
this is the first proper letterthat he sent me back.
He wrote a long, long piece inthere about aspects of his war
service.
And when I responded with morequestions, he said, I can see
(08:28):
that you are a serious studentof this conflict and you want to
know more.
And it's important that yourgeneration carries this forward.
So I'm going to write to you andI'm going to tell you
everything, whatever everythingmeant.
And what it meant was reams andreams of material.
And I've got all this in afolder.
(08:50):
I kept all my research infolders in those days and I had
a cupboard in my room where Ikept all those folders and I've
got them all still and I've gottons of correspondence from not
just Malcolm but from a lot ofother veterans.
There were some that I couldnever get to but they liked
writing and they would put a lotdown and perhaps maybe they put
more in writing than they wouldhave done if I stood in front of
(09:12):
them.
So on top of all those that Imet and interviewed there were a
lot more that just wrote to meas well anyway with Malcolm I
got both and we became veryclose I think in those last
years of his life and he meantan awful lot to me and when he
passed away it was quite hardbecause this was a man who
connected me to that war to thatgeneration and so many aspects
(09:34):
of the layers of the First WorldWar from the experience through
to nature he bird spotted at thefront for example that with his
loss a big big hole opened up inmy life really and I think that
was a turning point for me inwhich I kind of made a conscious
decision not to track downanymore I'd got to a point where
(09:54):
I'd interviewed a lot and got alot from them but with the death
of Malcolm and others It hurtand I couldn't keep experiencing
that.
So as the time came for me tohead off to France to do
whatever it was I was going todo there, eventually write a
book and then several books,that kind of period of my life
(10:15):
of interviewing veterans hadcome to an end.
But I was so privileged, solucky, so fortunate to spend so
much time with these men.
And in this bonus episode, I'vegot so much material from
Malcolm and I am going to usemore of it in future episodes.
podcast but I've got somematerial to give you a kind of
flavor of it here and the kindof things that that he sent me
(10:37):
so who was Malcolm VivianMalcolm Vivian was born on the
21st of November 1895 into theoldest Cornish family.
I think on record that they areconsidered to be the oldest
family.
And they have a family seat at aplace called Trelawaran.
He was never born there, neverwent there except to see a few
(10:57):
cousins.
And his father, Hugh NorrisVivian, married Constance Horton
who was born in Newport,Virginia in the United States.
So she was American.
Malcolm had an American mum.
Malcolm was one of threebrothers.
He was a sister as well, but thethree brothers, of course, all
went on to serve in the GreatWar.
(11:17):
Hugh Wren Vivian, he was theblack sheep, as Malcolm once
called him, who served in theranks of the Scots Guards.
I'm not entirely sure why he didthat.
He didn't seem to have gone offto university.
He left...
private school and then wentinto the Scots Guards as an
ordinary soldier and then he wascommissioned into the Duke of
Cornwall's Light Infantry andgot an MC in 1918 and was badly
(11:40):
wounded.
The other brother was BeresfordHorton Vivian, whose middle name
was his mother's maiden name.
He served in the 38th WelshDivision in one of their Royal
Field Artillery Brigades andfought with them at Mamet's
Wood.
He died of wounds at Ypres inAugust 1917.
He is buried close toPopperinger in Dozingham
(12:02):
Military Cemetery and I tried toget Malcolm to come with me on a
trip to go and visit his gravebecause he nearly saw the grave
in 1918 when he was up the roadat Pervis never got a chance to
get down there to go and see thecross of course as it would have
been then, the wooden cross andthat cross still survives, it's
in the churchyard of a churchruined minor in Cornwall, I
(12:23):
think it's been taken into thechurch now, it used to be
outside but he wouldn't come, hesaid that he preferred to
remember the front as he calledit as it was not as it is today
so those two brothers wentthrough one badly wounded one
killed and Malcolm through thewar himself now he was educated
privately and he was living inGlamorganshire although the
(12:44):
family were from Cornwall theyhad a house in Glamorganshire
and that's where he went toschool from and that's where he
won a place at Queen's CollegeOxford from and went there just
before the outbreak of war andhis time in Oxford was cut short
by the outbreak of thatconflict.
He was commissioned soonafterwards into the Glamorgan
(13:06):
Royal Garrison Artillery part ofthe territorial force and that
became the 96 siege batteryRoyal Garrison Artillery which
was equipped with 9.2 inch gunsso some of the bigger siege guns
that were used on the westernfront not the biggest but some
of the bigger and they requireda huge amount of moving around
as Malcolm described in hisvarious accounts of it.
(13:30):
He went to France with that unitin the spring of 1916 went
through the Somme through theBattle of Arras and on the
Hindenburg line for quite sometime Didn't serve in the Third
Battle of Ypres, but his unitmoved up to the Flanders coast
when the British Army occupiedthe front between the very
coastal belt itself and Newportand Ramscapel.
(13:51):
And he was in Pervis andRamscapel and that sector
spotting for the guns.
There's a big tall observationtower still there today in
Pervis that was built inside agranary, I think.
And he certainly used that.
I took some pictures of it andhe remembered it on one of my
trips.
So he was in that sector.
And then he transferred to theRoyal Flying Corps trained as an
(14:11):
observer and then when thatbecame the RAF he put in for
pilot training and by the timehe'd done all that the war was
over so he never flew in combatmuch to his regret after the war
he settled in Salt Ash inCornwall he married his
sweetheart Fairy Birrell whosefather was a colonel and local
JP and owned a big paper mill inDebartonshire Scotland he lost
(14:35):
all of his money as pretty muchhis entire family did in the
stock market crash in the late1920s 20s and he ended up
working for Joe Lyons in theirtea shops and was manager of all
of the Joe Lyons in London bythe outbreak of the Second World
War in 1939.
He was on the reserve then, wentback into the army, was
recommissioned into the RoyalArtillery and became a gunner
(14:57):
officer at Suez in charge of theanti-aircraft defences until he
was sent home sick in 1941 andwas mentioned in dispatches for
his time in that conflict there.
So he wrote me dozens and dozensand dozens of letters outlining
all these different aspects ofhis war experiences a lot about
the second world war a lot aboutlife in the interwar period as a
(15:20):
civilian and all the things thatkind of meant something to him
and when we met up we would talkabout all kinds of things that
his letters had flagged up so itwas an incredible experience
really spending that amount oftime with one man and what I
want to do in this bonus episodeis kind of give you a bit of a
sense of it by reading some ofthe material So we'll start with
(15:44):
one of his earliest letters thathe sent to me, kind of outlining
his history leading into the waritself.
My next brother, a first-classhonours Oxford maths scholar,
(16:07):
was wounded in the hand by asniper, the Forward Observations
Officer's chief menace.
As a battery captain in the 21stDivision at Luz, he was
subsequently killed as a batterycaptain with A Battery, 121
Brigade, 38th Welsh Division atPilcom Ridge during the 3rd
Battle of Ypres.
The first brother won the MC andthe second was mentioned in
(16:30):
dispatches.
I left school aged 18 at the endof July 1914 and on August 13th
was commissioned into theGlamorgan RGA Territorials, a
unit engaged in the coastaldefence of the ports of Cardiff,
Penarth, Barry to Port Talbotand also Swansea.
This proving unnecessary, in thesummer of 1915, one company,
(16:52):
commanded by my first cousin,Major Courtney Vivian Robinson,
was formed together with newrecruits, the 49th Siege
Battery, which was equipped withfour times six-inch howitzers,
and they joined the BEF in timefor the Battle of Loos.
My cousin sadly died of Asianflu at the end of the Great War
(17:12):
just after the armistice.
We followed our companyconsisting of 90 Glamorgans plus
60 odd new enlistments which Ipicked up from Great Yarmouth
and all of that was formed intothe 96 Siege Battery Royal
Garrison Artillery equipped withfour 9.2 inch howitzers.
They were under the command of aregular officer, Major C.H.M.
(17:32):
Stringer, DSO.
He'd been out with No.
1 Siege Battery earlier in thewar.
We trained at Pembroke Dock,Sheerness, Lyd for firing tests,
mobilised in glorious weather atStockcross near Newbury and
landed in France on May 24th,1916 in time to take up
positions in the opening of theSomme Battle.
(17:54):
Our officers and men were ofhigh calibre.
The Glamorgans included manyminers and steelworkers who were
used to physical hard work apartfrom the major aged 32 we were
Captain C.R.
Brown a young manager in thesteelworks myself having trained
in the school OTC and very fithaving played rugby all through
(18:14):
the Easter holidays with a firstclass Welsh club Sammy Evans a
burly 28 year old charteredaccountant who'd been a private
in the HAC during the firstbattle of Ypres carpenter a very
efficient and likeable engineerand second lieutenant Nigel
Norman, straight from Woolwich,who in World War II as a group
captain was killed in a glidercrash.
(18:35):
Bill Brown soon left us tocommand another Glamorgan
battery, the 74th Siege Battery,and won the DSO.
After a while I was made up tocaptain, and as such won the
Military Cross and had twomentions in dispatches.
Evans got the MC and a mention.
I thank God I was in amechanised unit and so spared
the agony of seeing our horsesmaimed dreadfully or killed.
(18:58):
I was a forward observationofficer for six days in our OP
in front of Hebutern and facingGomakor on what's the
destruction of both the 46th andthe 56th Divisions.
We were continuously in actionto the attack on Serre and
Beaumont-Hamelin-Thiapval onNovember 13th 1916.
I was forward observationofficer and I remember that
(19:19):
attack well.
From the ridge on which I stoodI saw the dark of the western
front horizon suddenly blazewith flashing lights as the guns
opened up at zero hour.
The next time I saw anythingsimilar was at Christmas morning
1940 when the Admiral von Hepperand Prince Eugen opened fire on
our slow convoy betweenGreenland and Africa.
(19:41):
But that's another war.
At Serre we watched helplesslyas wounded infantrymen slipped
into the mud and drowned.
After Sere, we moved north tovarious positions in the Arras
area, and then 48 hours beforezero on Easter Monday, April
9th, I was pushed forward withtwo guns for a detached command
for a month.
(20:02):
By the way, siege artillery werecore troops and never came out
of action, except when moving toanother position.
We stayed in action for all thelater attacks on the Hindenburg
Line, then moved up to Lever, avery hot place indeed, for the
attack by the Canadian Corps onLen and Hill 70.
Our casualties here were heavy.
(20:23):
Later we moved up to the YpresSalient and then to the battle
that never was, to the villageof Pervis in the flooded area.
We were the only guns plus abattery of French 75mm, the
famous Soissons-Caz.
After a period during which wefired 5,000 rounds, we were
unable to open fire withoutbeing overwhelmed.
The land was flat and flooded,the camouflage screens had been
(20:45):
destroyed, and our four gunsstood out like mammoth
elephants.
Whatever had been planned had tobe called off, and we returned
to the Canadians.
Soon after, my transfer to theRFC came through.
The 9.2-inch howitzer was amagnificent gun, the gun of the
war.
Don't tell any X-18-pounder or6-inch howitzer merchants this,
(21:06):
but it had one drawback.
All guns of lesser calibre couldbe fired off their wheels, even
the 8-inch howitzer, which had apowerful spade to absorb the
recoil.
Consequently, they could bepacked up and moved to a site
very easily.
The 12-inch rail or roadmounting was so huge that they
had permanent sites in the backareas.
But the 9.2 alone had to bedismantled into three sections,
(21:30):
platform, cradle, barrel, all intransit towed behind a
caterpillar tractor.
In addition, an enormous ironbox had to be fitted to the
front of the platform and filledwith earth to counterbalance
recall and downward thrust.
Done in pitch darkness byHurricane This next part of his
(21:58):
account relates specifically tothe Battle of Arras, the opening
phase of Arras.
And Malcolm spent a lot of timein that sector as a siege
battery gunner and as a forwardobservation officer of Foo.
And this is what he has to sayabout it.
We had just moved up into aposition southwest of Arras to
(22:20):
be ready for the battle and hadtwo rough nights.
Zero hour for the attack was5.30am on Easter Monday, April
9th.
On the 7th, I was in the lineregistering on some targets when
Carpenter arrived with two freshlinesmen and said...
I've come up to take over, Skip.
The old man wants you back atonce.
There's a flap on.
(22:41):
Left section has stood down andright section is dismounting its
guns.
So off I went with my two Irishlinesmen.
Patsy said, what are we going togo back for, sir?
I replied, I've got a nastyfeeling, Patsy.
Paddy chipped in with, perhapswe're going to a dinner party,
sir.
My answer was, I have asuspicion we're going to be the
dinner, Paddy.
When we got back to the battery,I could see the tarpaulin still
(23:02):
on number one and number twoguns, but three and four...
having been taken down.
I reported to the major in themess, and he called out, White,
our mess batman, bring inCaptain Vivian's dinner.
So in came my bully Stu withspuds and pineapple chunks.
Then he said, Malcolm, groupwant two 9.2s right now and for
the attack, and you've got thejob.
(23:24):
They want them up at Agni,somewhere in the area I've
marked on this map on a centralbearing of approximately 95
degrees.
You'll be administered by myselfas always, but will receive
operation orders direct fromgroup.
The road up there is underdirect observation, so the guns
and ammo can't go up till afterdark.
I can only give you one officer.
I imagine you'll want Evans, butI'll give you a sergeant,
(23:46):
Sergeant Parsons, an excellentregular NCO who'd been out
previously.
You can have Sergeant Lowe andtwo other linesmen beside your
two Irish and Bombardier Vedmoreas dispatch rider.
Oh, and as you're up therealready, groups say, can you act
as brigade forward observationofficer?
I've written it all out as faras I can see, but you'll have to
act on your own a lot.
You and Bombardier Vedmore cango up on your motorcycles as
(24:08):
soon as you're ready to find asuitable position, mark the gun
positions out, and the darkVedmore can ride back to meet
the guns and guide them to theposition.
What are you laughing at?
I said, it's so funny.
I gave Brigadier Knapp, the manin charge, a lecture on 9.2
mobility, or lack of it, and nowhe dumps this in my lap.
(24:28):
41 hours to zero, snowing likehell.
The ride up, over, an awful roadinto the ruins of Agni, already
packed to bulging point withtroops for the attack, and we
had to find somewhere to put theguns in, get them mounted,
locate the infantry and ourtargets, register on the targets
from an OP, an observation post,come back, see everything's
(24:50):
okay, get some sleep, then go upfor the attack.
Please, sir, I want anotherdispatch rider, as
communications are likely to bedifficult.
Ah well, better get on with thejob.
White, please ask SergeantJackson and Bombardier Vedmore
to come back here to me.
They make a lot of sandwichesand fill my flask with whiskey
and water.
When the two NCOs arrived, Isaid, we're off on a private
(25:11):
war.
Collect everything necessary formarking out the two gun
positions and put them on threetriumphs.
Vedmore, you and I will be goingup soon with the dispatch
riders.
I'll leave it to you to choosewho to take.
Jackson, you'll be coming uplater with the guns.
Vedmore, you'll help me find andmark out the gun site.
We'll have to find somerecognisable point where the
(25:32):
guns coming up after dark can bemet by you and then guided to
the site.
I'll have to stay and hold itagainst other would-be
occupants.
So off we went with our bikesladen like Christmas trees.
It was snowing and the road wasin a ghastly state of potholes
and very greasy.
We found a place with greatdifficulty, marked it out using
my compass to get the centreline correct.
(25:54):
The guns and ammo came up, weremounted and ready for action
just after dawn.
I went out with the linesman tofind an observation post and lay
a wire.
We, or rather I, identified thetargets.
We fired a few rounds on eachone to register, found the
infantry HQ, introduced myself,and returned to the guns.
(26:14):
I laid down on the command postfloor for a doss, and soon
after, Brigadier General Knapparrived.
They shook me and said, TheGeneral! I half sat up and
saluted them, and fell back,dead asleep.
They did it again, with the sameresult.
Mr Evans, one of the officers,said, He's being called at 3am,
sir.
He's going over.
Knapp said, I know, let himsleep, tell him I'm pleased with
(26:36):
the sight.
I didn't meet him again, but hemost strongly recommended me for
the military cross, which Ididn't get.
But as far as I was concerned,Knapp's strong recommendation,
being the man that he was, wasin itself an accolade.
So that was the eve, the lead upto the Battle of Arras in April
1917 and his guns and hisobservation post and the firing
(26:58):
with the infantry HQ that hementions, they were men from the
56th London Division who he'dseen be in action at Gormacore
the year before and he was very,very close to the war poet
Edward Thomas who was also aforward observer that day, also
spotting for siege battery gunslike his but in another siege
battery.
(27:18):
Malcolm Did get his MC at Hill70, supporting the Canadians in
August of 1917.
Perhaps that's a story we'lltell another day.
And then he went right throughthe war, as we've said.
This is just a sample, really,of what I've got on some of
these men and the kind ofthings, the legacies that they
(27:40):
left me.
And much of this, I've got tosay, was the inspiration to
start this podcast all thoseyears ago.
And...
It's time, I think, to sharemore of this.
So perhaps these bonus episodes,whatever we're going to call
them, will evolve into somethingelse because The voices of that
generation, a generation that initself is now silent with the
(28:01):
last veteran passing away, withthe death of Harry Patch and the
end of that long line of men whohad marched so far, so wide and
for so long across those greatbattlefields of the First World
War.
It's important to ensure thatthose voices aren't entirely
silenced.
(28:21):
because new generations, justlike me, 40 years ago, visiting
Malcolm Vivian as a young man,new generations will want to
understand this conflict, willbe inspired by this conflict,
fascinated by it, and it'simportant that these voices are
out there for them to hear too.
We're forever learning in thesubject of the Great War,
(28:44):
forever finding things thatsheds new light on the subject,
and forever brings us back tothose layers upon layers of the
old frontline.
You've been listening to anepisode of The Old Frontline
with me, military historian PaulReid.
(29:06):
You can follow me on Twitter atSomcor, you can follow the
podcast at oldfrontlinepod,Check out the website at
oldfrontline.co.uk where you'llfind lots of podcast extras and
photographs and links to booksthat are mentioned in the
podcast.
And if you feel like supportingus, you can go to our Patreon
page, patreon.com slasholdfrontline or support us on
(29:30):
Buy Me A Coffee atbuymeacoffee.com slash
oldfrontline.
Links to all of these are on ourwebsite.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you again soon.
In the second of our bonus episodes, we look at the
memoirs of a siege batterygunner in the Great War, Malcolm
Vivian, a First World Warveteran who I first met 40 years
ago.
And this is some of his story.
Welcome to the second of ourSeason 8 bonus episodes.
(00:25):
The main podcast season is overbefore we return for Season 9 in
September, but these episodesare something extra to round the
season off, but with it a littlebit shorter than the main
podcasts.
In this bonus episode, we returnto the subject of Great War
(00:45):
Veterans, something that is atthe heart, really, of the Old
Frontline podcast in so manyways.
If you've been listening to thispodcast for a while, you will
know that back in the 1980s and90s, I was very, very lucky to
interview a substantial numberof First World War veterans,
(01:06):
over 350 of them.
And I was living then in Sussex,so close to Kent and Hampshire
as well, which was a bigretirement area for people from
all over the UK.
And at that time, in what wasthen around about the 70th
(01:26):
anniversary of the First WorldWar, there was a huge number of
veterans alive, and it wasn'teasy to necessarily track them
down in those far-offpre-internet days.
To track anybody down wasn't aneasy prospect, but there were a
few ways of doing it.
Martin Middlebrook, for example,in the back of his First Day of
(01:49):
the Somme book, listed all ofthe veterans that he'd
interviewed for the research,And for some reason, and when I
asked him about this many yearslater, he couldn't really
explain it.
For some reason, he listed thetown and the county where they
were living at the time that hespoke to them.
And using phone books, you couldtrack these guys down.
(02:09):
And I would go to my library,made a list of all the ones that
were in Sussex, for example,went through the phone books,
found them.
And then got home and rang theseguys up and said, are you Mr.
Brown who was in the MiddlesexRegiment in Mash Valley?
Did you serve at Guimauve orwherever it was?
And got quite a good positiveresponse to this.
(02:33):
None of them put the phone downon me.
Mostly they were very pleased tobe asked that question and
wanted to have a chat about it.
And I used to kind of assessthem on the phone to see what
they were like, how chatty theywere, what kind of language they
used to describe aspects of thewar, and then would kind of take
it from there.
And there were some that youcould sense were a bit reticent,
(02:54):
and I didn't push that.
It wasn't my place to push themto talk about something that
obviously had affected them insuch a way.
But there were others I couldalso sense that they were
absolutely chomping at the bitto talk about it.
I think I tapped into thatgeneration right at the...
correct time that they'd got tothis point where they were
almost confessional and wantedto somehow impart that
(03:19):
experience that they'd had butto a stranger not to their own
family not to their kith and kinbut to someone who'd come along
ask them the right questionsthat they could trust in as much
of a way they could trust astranger and many of them I got
to know very well and theyhopefully got to trust me very
well too and And that incredibleperiod of my life when I was
(03:43):
interviewing these guys began.
And I started when I was atschool in my own town.
But when I went off touniversity living right down on
the south coast, I discoveredquite a few retirement homes.
And in those were substantialnumbers of First World War
veterans.
So it kind of went from thereand I expanded out into Kent and
(04:03):
to Hampshire.
But I also ended up goingabroad.
all around the country, up toDerbyshire, up to Sheffield,
even up to Barnsley, long beforeI ever lived there.
I went up to Barnsley to go toan event to meet some of the
very last Barnsley pals, forexample.
So it was an incredible momentand I think at times I perhaps
(04:25):
didn't always realise howsignificant it was because this
was that kind of one minute tomidnight moment for that
generation.
Within a decade or so of mebeginning to talk to these men,
the vast majority of them that Ispoke to were gone and the ones
that had very long periods ofwartime service or had achieved
(04:49):
rank, they too went very, veryquickly because I just caught
the kind of tail end of thosekind of soldiers who were there.
If I jumped on a decade or sofrom when I began interviewing
these men what you were leftwith were 18 and 19 year old
conscripts who'd served in thelast months of the war and there
was nothing wrong with that ofcourse it was incredibly
(05:11):
interesting talking to these menwhose early youth had been
defined by war experience andthey had a very different
perspective often to the menwho'd volunteered right at the
beginning but they only saw Afraction of the war.
Compared to some.
Who I've mentioned many times.
Like George Butler.
Who was there from 1915.
(05:34):
Right through to when he wasbadly wounded.
In the Battle of the Lease inApril 1918.
And many many others besides.
So my search process.
began far and wide and when Ijoined the Western Front
Association which was a FirstWorld War remembrance
organisation founded by authorJohn Giles again someone I've
mentioned many times on thepodcast the WFA was a fantastic
(05:57):
organisation to join for a youngbudding historian like me
fascinated by the Great War itoffered so much the magazine the
early ones and I have them allon my bookcase I'm just looking
across to them now I have themall there and they have so much
information in there and many ofit from veterans and some of the
veterans used to put littleadverts in there with their
(06:20):
addresses and I used to write tothem and ask if I could come and
see them or talk to them so thatwas another way into meeting
some of these guys and I thenput some little adverts in there
myself about specific bits ofinformation and I inquired in
one about a siege batteryofficer who'd been killed at the
Battle of Messines and for somereason I got his siege battery
(06:40):
wrong he was 93rd siege batteryand for some reason I put 96 and
a veteran member of the WFA readthat saw the name of his unit 96
Siege Battery Royal GarrisonArtillery being an officer in
that unit himself he kneweveryone that served in it he
had their unit history and thisman was not listed and was not
(07:00):
known to him so he wrote to meto say I think you've got this
wrong because he definitelydidn't serve with our unit and
that got us chatting and thatperson was Malcolm Vivian and he
became one of of my closestveteran friends there was a
group of them I interviewed allthose hundreds but there was a
group of them a small selectgroup through lots of different
(07:23):
circumstances that I becameparticularly close to and he was
definitely one of them now helived a long way from me I was
just about to go off touniversity down to that Sussex
coast and he lived down inPlymouth in fact he lived at
Saltash and I went to see him,went down that summer, took a
bus down there, went over tomeet him.
(07:46):
We went down the pub a fewtimes.
I was there for a few days andwe met up on several occasions.
And then I would go back and I'dgo back and I'd go back because
not only did he contact me and Iwrote back to him, when I wrote
back to him, I sent him astamped address envelope.
I mean, who remembers thosethese days?
And in fact, I've got thatstamped address envelope in
(08:06):
front of me now.
I'm looking at it.
It's got my old address stickeron it and the postmark is
Plymouth Cornwall West Devonstamped 5th February 1985 And
this is the first proper letterthat he sent me back.
He wrote a long, long piece inthere about aspects of his war
service.
And when I responded with morequestions, he said, I can see
(08:28):
that you are a serious studentof this conflict and you want to
know more.
And it's important that yourgeneration carries this forward.
So I'm going to write to you andI'm going to tell you
everything, whatever everythingmeant.
And what it meant was reams andreams of material.
And I've got all this in afolder.
(08:50):
I kept all my research infolders in those days and I had
a cupboard in my room where Ikept all those folders and I've
got them all still and I've gottons of correspondence from not
just Malcolm but from a lot ofother veterans.
There were some that I couldnever get to but they liked
writing and they would put a lotdown and perhaps maybe they put
more in writing than they wouldhave done if I stood in front of
(09:12):
them.
So on top of all those that Imet and interviewed there were a
lot more that just wrote to meas well anyway with Malcolm I
got both and we became veryclose I think in those last
years of his life and he meantan awful lot to me and when he
passed away it was quite hardbecause this was a man who
connected me to that war to thatgeneration and so many aspects
(09:34):
of the layers of the First WorldWar from the experience through
to nature he bird spotted at thefront for example that with his
loss a big big hole opened up inmy life really and I think that
was a turning point for me inwhich I kind of made a conscious
decision not to track downanymore I'd got to a point where
(09:54):
I'd interviewed a lot and got alot from them but with the death
of Malcolm and others It hurtand I couldn't keep experiencing
that.
So as the time came for me tohead off to France to do
whatever it was I was going todo there, eventually write a
book and then several books,that kind of period of my life
(10:15):
of interviewing veterans hadcome to an end.
But I was so privileged, solucky, so fortunate to spend so
much time with these men.
And in this bonus episode, I'vegot so much material from
Malcolm and I am going to usemore of it in future episodes.
podcast but I've got somematerial to give you a kind of
flavor of it here and the kindof things that that he sent me
(10:37):
so who was Malcolm VivianMalcolm Vivian was born on the
21st of November 1895 into theoldest Cornish family.
I think on record that they areconsidered to be the oldest
family.
And they have a family seat at aplace called Trelawaran.
He was never born there, neverwent there except to see a few
(10:57):
cousins.
And his father, Hugh NorrisVivian, married Constance Horton
who was born in Newport,Virginia in the United States.
So she was American.
Malcolm had an American mum.
Malcolm was one of threebrothers.
He was a sister as well, but thethree brothers, of course, all
went on to serve in the GreatWar.
(11:17):
Hugh Wren Vivian, he was theblack sheep, as Malcolm once
called him, who served in theranks of the Scots Guards.
I'm not entirely sure why he didthat.
He didn't seem to have gone offto university.
He left...
private school and then wentinto the Scots Guards as an
ordinary soldier and then he wascommissioned into the Duke of
Cornwall's Light Infantry andgot an MC in 1918 and was badly
(11:40):
wounded.
The other brother was BeresfordHorton Vivian, whose middle name
was his mother's maiden name.
He served in the 38th WelshDivision in one of their Royal
Field Artillery Brigades andfought with them at Mamet's
Wood.
He died of wounds at Ypres inAugust 1917.
He is buried close toPopperinger in Dozingham
(12:02):
Military Cemetery and I tried toget Malcolm to come with me on a
trip to go and visit his gravebecause he nearly saw the grave
in 1918 when he was up the roadat Pervis never got a chance to
get down there to go and see thecross of course as it would have
been then, the wooden cross andthat cross still survives, it's
in the churchyard of a churchruined minor in Cornwall, I
(12:23):
think it's been taken into thechurch now, it used to be
outside but he wouldn't come, hesaid that he preferred to
remember the front as he calledit as it was not as it is today
so those two brothers wentthrough one badly wounded one
killed and Malcolm through thewar himself now he was educated
privately and he was living inGlamorganshire although the
(12:44):
family were from Cornwall theyhad a house in Glamorganshire
and that's where he went toschool from and that's where he
won a place at Queen's CollegeOxford from and went there just
before the outbreak of war andhis time in Oxford was cut short
by the outbreak of thatconflict.
He was commissioned soonafterwards into the Glamorgan
(13:06):
Royal Garrison Artillery part ofthe territorial force and that
became the 96 siege batteryRoyal Garrison Artillery which
was equipped with 9.2 inch gunsso some of the bigger siege guns
that were used on the westernfront not the biggest but some
of the bigger and they requireda huge amount of moving around
as Malcolm described in hisvarious accounts of it.
(13:30):
He went to France with that unitin the spring of 1916 went
through the Somme through theBattle of Arras and on the
Hindenburg line for quite sometime Didn't serve in the Third
Battle of Ypres, but his unitmoved up to the Flanders coast
when the British Army occupiedthe front between the very
coastal belt itself and Newportand Ramscapel.
(13:51):
And he was in Pervis andRamscapel and that sector
spotting for the guns.
There's a big tall observationtower still there today in
Pervis that was built inside agranary, I think.
And he certainly used that.
I took some pictures of it andhe remembered it on one of my
trips.
So he was in that sector.
And then he transferred to theRoyal Flying Corps trained as an
(14:11):
observer and then when thatbecame the RAF he put in for
pilot training and by the timehe'd done all that the war was
over so he never flew in combatmuch to his regret after the war
he settled in Salt Ash inCornwall he married his
sweetheart Fairy Birrell whosefather was a colonel and local
JP and owned a big paper mill inDebartonshire Scotland he lost
(14:35):
all of his money as pretty muchhis entire family did in the
stock market crash in the late1920s 20s and he ended up
working for Joe Lyons in theirtea shops and was manager of all
of the Joe Lyons in London bythe outbreak of the Second World
War in 1939.
He was on the reserve then, wentback into the army, was
recommissioned into the RoyalArtillery and became a gunner
(14:57):
officer at Suez in charge of theanti-aircraft defences until he
was sent home sick in 1941 andwas mentioned in dispatches for
his time in that conflict there.
So he wrote me dozens and dozensand dozens of letters outlining
all these different aspects ofhis war experiences a lot about
the second world war a lot aboutlife in the interwar period as a
(15:20):
civilian and all the things thatkind of meant something to him
and when we met up we would talkabout all kinds of things that
his letters had flagged up so itwas an incredible experience
really spending that amount oftime with one man and what I
want to do in this bonus episodeis kind of give you a bit of a
sense of it by reading some ofthe material So we'll start with
(15:44):
one of his earliest letters thathe sent to me, kind of outlining
his history leading into the waritself.
My next brother, a first-classhonours Oxford maths scholar,
(16:07):
was wounded in the hand by asniper, the Forward Observations
Officer's chief menace.
As a battery captain in the 21stDivision at Luz, he was
subsequently killed as a batterycaptain with A Battery, 121
Brigade, 38th Welsh Division atPilcom Ridge during the 3rd
Battle of Ypres.
The first brother won the MC andthe second was mentioned in
(16:30):
dispatches.
I left school aged 18 at the endof July 1914 and on August 13th
was commissioned into theGlamorgan RGA Territorials, a
unit engaged in the coastaldefence of the ports of Cardiff,
Penarth, Barry to Port Talbotand also Swansea.
This proving unnecessary, in thesummer of 1915, one company,
(16:52):
commanded by my first cousin,Major Courtney Vivian Robinson,
was formed together with newrecruits, the 49th Siege
Battery, which was equipped withfour times six-inch howitzers,
and they joined the BEF in timefor the Battle of Loos.
My cousin sadly died of Asianflu at the end of the Great War
(17:12):
just after the armistice.
We followed our companyconsisting of 90 Glamorgans plus
60 odd new enlistments which Ipicked up from Great Yarmouth
and all of that was formed intothe 96 Siege Battery Royal
Garrison Artillery equipped withfour 9.2 inch howitzers.
They were under the command of aregular officer, Major C.H.M.
(17:32):
Stringer, DSO.
He'd been out with No.
1 Siege Battery earlier in thewar.
We trained at Pembroke Dock,Sheerness, Lyd for firing tests,
mobilised in glorious weather atStockcross near Newbury and
landed in France on May 24th,1916 in time to take up
positions in the opening of theSomme Battle.
(17:54):
Our officers and men were ofhigh calibre.
The Glamorgans included manyminers and steelworkers who were
used to physical hard work apartfrom the major aged 32 we were
Captain C.R.
Brown a young manager in thesteelworks myself having trained
in the school OTC and very fithaving played rugby all through
(18:14):
the Easter holidays with a firstclass Welsh club Sammy Evans a
burly 28 year old charteredaccountant who'd been a private
in the HAC during the firstbattle of Ypres carpenter a very
efficient and likeable engineerand second lieutenant Nigel
Norman, straight from Woolwich,who in World War II as a group
captain was killed in a glidercrash.
(18:35):
Bill Brown soon left us tocommand another Glamorgan
battery, the 74th Siege Battery,and won the DSO.
After a while I was made up tocaptain, and as such won the
Military Cross and had twomentions in dispatches.
Evans got the MC and a mention.
I thank God I was in amechanised unit and so spared
the agony of seeing our horsesmaimed dreadfully or killed.
(18:58):
I was a forward observationofficer for six days in our OP
in front of Hebutern and facingGomakor on what's the
destruction of both the 46th andthe 56th Divisions.
We were continuously in actionto the attack on Serre and
Beaumont-Hamelin-Thiapval onNovember 13th 1916.
I was forward observationofficer and I remember that
(19:19):
attack well.
From the ridge on which I stoodI saw the dark of the western
front horizon suddenly blazewith flashing lights as the guns
opened up at zero hour.
The next time I saw anythingsimilar was at Christmas morning
1940 when the Admiral von Hepperand Prince Eugen opened fire on
our slow convoy betweenGreenland and Africa.
(19:41):
But that's another war.
At Serre we watched helplesslyas wounded infantrymen slipped
into the mud and drowned.
After Sere, we moved north tovarious positions in the Arras
area, and then 48 hours beforezero on Easter Monday, April
9th, I was pushed forward withtwo guns for a detached command
for a month.
(20:02):
By the way, siege artillery werecore troops and never came out
of action, except when moving toanother position.
We stayed in action for all thelater attacks on the Hindenburg
Line, then moved up to Lever, avery hot place indeed, for the
attack by the Canadian Corps onLen and Hill 70.
Our casualties here were heavy.
(20:23):
Later we moved up to the YpresSalient and then to the battle
that never was, to the villageof Pervis in the flooded area.
We were the only guns plus abattery of French 75mm, the
famous Soissons-Caz.
After a period during which wefired 5,000 rounds, we were
unable to open fire withoutbeing overwhelmed.
The land was flat and flooded,the camouflage screens had been
(20:45):
destroyed, and our four gunsstood out like mammoth
elephants.
Whatever had been planned had tobe called off, and we returned
to the Canadians.
Soon after, my transfer to theRFC came through.
The 9.2-inch howitzer was amagnificent gun, the gun of the
war.
Don't tell any X-18-pounder or6-inch howitzer merchants this,
(21:06):
but it had one drawback.
All guns of lesser calibre couldbe fired off their wheels, even
the 8-inch howitzer, which had apowerful spade to absorb the
recoil.
Consequently, they could bepacked up and moved to a site
very easily.
The 12-inch rail or roadmounting was so huge that they
had permanent sites in the backareas.
But the 9.2 alone had to bedismantled into three sections,
(21:30):
platform, cradle, barrel, all intransit towed behind a
caterpillar tractor.
In addition, an enormous ironbox had to be fitted to the
front of the platform and filledwith earth to counterbalance
recall and downward thrust.
Done in pitch darkness byHurricane This next part of his
(21:58):
account relates specifically tothe Battle of Arras, the opening
phase of Arras.
And Malcolm spent a lot of timein that sector as a siege
battery gunner and as a forwardobservation officer of Foo.
And this is what he has to sayabout it.
We had just moved up into aposition southwest of Arras to
(22:20):
be ready for the battle and hadtwo rough nights.
Zero hour for the attack was5.30am on Easter Monday, April
9th.
On the 7th, I was in the lineregistering on some targets when
Carpenter arrived with two freshlinesmen and said...
I've come up to take over, Skip.
The old man wants you back atonce.
There's a flap on.
(22:41):
Left section has stood down andright section is dismounting its
guns.
So off I went with my two Irishlinesmen.
Patsy said, what are we going togo back for, sir?
I replied, I've got a nastyfeeling, Patsy.
Paddy chipped in with, perhapswe're going to a dinner party,
sir.
My answer was, I have asuspicion we're going to be the
dinner, Paddy.
When we got back to the battery,I could see the tarpaulin still
(23:02):
on number one and number twoguns, but three and four...
having been taken down.
I reported to the major in themess, and he called out, White,
our mess batman, bring inCaptain Vivian's dinner.
So in came my bully Stu withspuds and pineapple chunks.
Then he said, Malcolm, groupwant two 9.2s right now and for
the attack, and you've got thejob.
(23:24):
They want them up at Agni,somewhere in the area I've
marked on this map on a centralbearing of approximately 95
degrees.
You'll be administered by myselfas always, but will receive
operation orders direct fromgroup.
The road up there is underdirect observation, so the guns
and ammo can't go up till afterdark.
I can only give you one officer.
I imagine you'll want Evans, butI'll give you a sergeant,
(23:46):
Sergeant Parsons, an excellentregular NCO who'd been out
previously.
You can have Sergeant Lowe andtwo other linesmen beside your
two Irish and Bombardier Vedmoreas dispatch rider.
Oh, and as you're up therealready, groups say, can you act
as brigade forward observationofficer?
I've written it all out as faras I can see, but you'll have to
act on your own a lot.
You and Bombardier Vedmore cango up on your motorcycles as
(24:08):
soon as you're ready to find asuitable position, mark the gun
positions out, and the darkVedmore can ride back to meet
the guns and guide them to theposition.
What are you laughing at?
I said, it's so funny.
I gave Brigadier Knapp, the manin charge, a lecture on 9.2
mobility, or lack of it, and nowhe dumps this in my lap.
(24:28):
41 hours to zero, snowing likehell.
The ride up, over, an awful roadinto the ruins of Agni, already
packed to bulging point withtroops for the attack, and we
had to find somewhere to put theguns in, get them mounted,
locate the infantry and ourtargets, register on the targets
from an OP, an observation post,come back, see everything's
(24:50):
okay, get some sleep, then go upfor the attack.
Please, sir, I want anotherdispatch rider, as
communications are likely to bedifficult.
Ah well, better get on with thejob.
White, please ask SergeantJackson and Bombardier Vedmore
to come back here to me.
They make a lot of sandwichesand fill my flask with whiskey
and water.
When the two NCOs arrived, Isaid, we're off on a private
(25:11):
war.
Collect everything necessary formarking out the two gun
positions and put them on threetriumphs.
Vedmore, you and I will be goingup soon with the dispatch
riders.
I'll leave it to you to choosewho to take.
Jackson, you'll be coming uplater with the guns.
Vedmore, you'll help me find andmark out the gun site.
We'll have to find somerecognisable point where the
(25:32):
guns coming up after dark can bemet by you and then guided to
the site.
I'll have to stay and hold itagainst other would-be
occupants.
So off we went with our bikesladen like Christmas trees.
It was snowing and the road wasin a ghastly state of potholes
and very greasy.
We found a place with greatdifficulty, marked it out using
my compass to get the centreline correct.
(25:54):
The guns and ammo came up, weremounted and ready for action
just after dawn.
I went out with the linesman tofind an observation post and lay
a wire.
We, or rather I, identified thetargets.
We fired a few rounds on eachone to register, found the
infantry HQ, introduced myself,and returned to the guns.
(26:14):
I laid down on the command postfloor for a doss, and soon
after, Brigadier General Knapparrived.
They shook me and said, TheGeneral! I half sat up and
saluted them, and fell back,dead asleep.
They did it again, with the sameresult.
Mr Evans, one of the officers,said, He's being called at 3am,
sir.
He's going over.
Knapp said, I know, let himsleep, tell him I'm pleased with
(26:36):
the sight.
I didn't meet him again, but hemost strongly recommended me for
the military cross, which Ididn't get.
But as far as I was concerned,Knapp's strong recommendation,
being the man that he was, wasin itself an accolade.
So that was the eve, the lead upto the Battle of Arras in April
1917 and his guns and hisobservation post and the firing
(26:58):
with the infantry HQ that hementions, they were men from the
56th London Division who he'dseen be in action at Gormacore
the year before and he was very,very close to the war poet
Edward Thomas who was also aforward observer that day, also
spotting for siege battery gunslike his but in another siege
battery.
(27:18):
Malcolm Did get his MC at Hill70, supporting the Canadians in
August of 1917.
Perhaps that's a story we'lltell another day.
And then he went right throughthe war, as we've said.
This is just a sample, really,of what I've got on some of
these men and the kind ofthings, the legacies that they
(27:40):
left me.
And much of this, I've got tosay, was the inspiration to
start this podcast all thoseyears ago.
And...
It's time, I think, to sharemore of this.
So perhaps these bonus episodes,whatever we're going to call
them, will evolve into somethingelse because The voices of that
generation, a generation that initself is now silent with the
(28:01):
last veteran passing away, withthe death of Harry Patch and the
end of that long line of men whohad marched so far, so wide and
for so long across those greatbattlefields of the First World
War.
It's important to ensure thatthose voices aren't entirely
silenced.
(28:21):
because new generations, justlike me, 40 years ago, visiting
Malcolm Vivian as a young man,new generations will want to
understand this conflict, willbe inspired by this conflict,
fascinated by it, and it'simportant that these voices are
out there for them to hear too.
We're forever learning in thesubject of the Great War,
(28:44):
forever finding things thatsheds new light on the subject,
and forever brings us back tothose layers upon layers of the
old frontline.
You've been listening to anepisode of The Old Frontline
with me, military historian PaulReid.
(29:06):
You can follow me on Twitter atSomcor, you can follow the
podcast at oldfrontlinepod,Check out the website at
oldfrontline.co.uk where you'llfind lots of podcast extras and
photographs and links to booksthat are mentioned in the
podcast.
And if you feel like supportingus, you can go to our Patreon
page, patreon.com slasholdfrontline or support us on
(29:30):
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The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
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The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.