September 5, 2025 • 26 mins
In our third and final Bonus Episode that brings Season 8 to a close, we have a live recording from the Menin Gate Memorial in Ypres, recorded while out leading a battlefield tour a few weeks ago. We reflect on the subjects we have covered on the podcast, on what the Menin Gate means to us, and how the whole subject of the Great War continues to develop.
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SPEAKER_00 (00:09):
This is the third and final bonus episode of
season eight of the OldFrontline podcast and I've come
up onto the ramparts in the cityof Ypres.
We often start a podcast serieson the Somme and this time it's
kind of fitting perhaps to endhere in Flanders in this city of
(00:32):
Ypres that means so much to thesacrifice of the First World
War, the remembrance of theFirst World War and that wider
culture of the old front line.
And I've come to sit thisevening on the rampart walls
overlooking the Menin Gates.
As many of you who listen to thepodcast will know or keep an eye
(00:53):
on the news related to thebattlefields and the landscape
of the First World War, thismemorial has been under
renovation for the last fewyears.
And for me, this is the firsttime I've come and been able to
gain full access to it again inthe way that we used to get
access to it before.
So it's quite nice to do that.
(01:15):
And I'm here this week becauseI'm walking the battle I'm here
with my old friend and colleagueDr Victoria Humphreys and we're
taking a ledger group around thebattlefields of Ypres and doing
a double act with me doing thehistory and some of the
anecdotes and her providingreadings from some of the
literature and poetry of theFirst World War.
(01:37):
And it's an interesting groupand an interested group who have
a lot of connections to thefighting here in the First World
War.
This is one of the things thatyou discover when you bring
parties of people to thesebattlefields.
You uncover all their familyinformation and see their family
photographs, and we've seen alot of that this week, which has
been really great.
It's absolutely what makes thesetrips in many, many ways and
(01:58):
it's great to get out on thegrounds.
Today we were walking thebattlefields around
Passchendaele from Tyne Cot downto Waterfields and Marsh Bottoms
and up to Crest Farm and intothe village itself, that
sacrificial ground from 1917that is so important in our
wider understanding of the FirstWorld War, ground that I've
(02:19):
walked many, many times over theyears and I've written about in
books but never, never ceases toimpress me and move me when
we're there.
And even in Tyne Cot, someoneasked me today, how many times
have you been to Tyne Cot?
And I honestly don't know, butit is hundreds and hundreds of
(02:39):
times with groups over the yearsand in individual visits as
well.
But again, I never tire of that.
How could you tire of it?
Coming to these places,connecting with these places,
seeing the landscape.
And I've seen that landscapechange and evolve, change and
evolve many, many times.
(03:00):
And it will no doubt continue tofor the rest of my life and for
generations to come.
And there always feels as ifthere's something different to
see, something new to connectto.
and long may that be really,long may that be.
So I'm sat here and it'srelatively quiet.
There's people just inMeninstraat over to my right
(03:23):
that are drinking in the cornerpub there, which is frequented
by a lot of battlefieldvisitors.
There's people, it's a holidayperiod, people walking along the
moat over towards the campingground and some of the places
where there's accommodationhere.
and many of these people perhapsalso have come to see some of
these battlefields but perhapsare just holidaying here having
no real idea of what theseplaces are or what even the
(03:45):
Menin Gate is but it's been verybusy for the last post over the
course of this week it wasabsolutely jam-packed with
people yesterday which isastonishing really 10 years on
from the centenary people arestill coming here wanting to
understand it perhaps see it andI'm sure there is a kind of
tourist element to it to acertain degree But perhaps
(04:08):
people who come here from thatperspective become moved by what
they see and go away and want tofind out more.
And sitting here as the sun setsover the city of Ypres, the last
rays of ancient sunlight fadingover the spires and the rooftops
of Ypres now.
There were some swallows in thesky above me earlier.
(04:30):
The swifts have almost gone.
I thought today when I was inthe valley before Passchendaele
that I heard a skylark, which issomething that is rare for me to
hear a skylark in Flanders.
Perhaps I dreamt it.
there is a lot more kind ofrough ground in that area of the
battlefield now pasture landthat's just left to go wild
(04:50):
which is what birds likeskylarks really love because
they're ground nesting birds andall of that layer which I
discuss so often here on the oldfront line is all part of the
connection that we have when wecome to these places and tonight
I've come up and I've had a walkround the Menin Gate to see what
(05:13):
the renovations that have beenongoing for the last couple of
years what they have beenprincipally about and I've
noticed that on the kind of sidepanels as you walk through the
two archway entrances and go upto the next level those panels
have been extensively repairedin some cases by the look of it
replaced or re-engraved andthey're looking pretty new some
(05:34):
of the other panels look less sofor the fact that this has not
been accessible and under worksfor the last couple of years and
this isn't a criticism of theCommonwealth War Graves
Commission but they don't lookvery different to what they
looked like two years ago.
Maybe this is part of along-term project to look at all
the panels and all the names anddo something with them, but
perhaps as yet it's unfinished.
(05:54):
I believe up on the roof they'vedone a lot of work there, a lot
of remedial work to thestructure, some of the damage
that was done in the SecondWorld War.
This is one of those placeswhere The First World War meets
the Second World War, thosecrisscross paths, and there was
fighting here in May 1940.
I'm looking down the Menin Stratup towards the point where it
(06:18):
curves to the right and heads toHellfire Corner, and that's the
direction the Germans werecoming from in May 1940.
British troops had occupied theMenin Gate, and the Moat Bridge
was blown by a Royal Engineersofficer.
It's mentioned in his militarycross citation.
He was awarded the MC for hiswork here, and the destruction
of that Moat Bridge is somethingthat's mentioned in his MC
(06:39):
citation and with blowing ofthat moat bridge it damaged the
front of the memorial theGermans opened fire with various
weapon systems including a 20mmanti-aircraft gun supposedly
which chewed up the line on topof the men in gates so a lot of
damage was done and I picked uprecently some German photographs
of the gate from 1941 whichshows that damage quite clearly
(07:04):
and the commission I believehave been doing a lot of that
remedial work again becausealthough it was patched up after
the second world war I don'tthink that was done perfectly in
the 1950s, so they've had to goback and revisit that work.
As with all these memorials, Imean, they are mighty structures
in all kinds of ways, on allkinds of levels, and the
maintenance of them is a verydifficult prospect and a costly
(07:27):
prospect, no doubt.
But it's good to have access tothe gate again.
It's felt strange not to be ableto go up those little side
corridors and touch the names ofso many soldiers that I've
researched over the years, whosephotographs that I have, whose
documents that I have, whosemedals that I have or memorial
plaques that I've found tuckedaway in junk shops, you know, in
(07:50):
those old days in Sussex,picking those kind of things up.
It's great to be able to comeout and touch those names.
I went to the name of Len Weston the Royal Sussex panels
tonight, and he was a militarymedal winner.
He got his MM as a stretcherbearer at the Boar's Head at
Richborg with the South DownsBattalions, and then he was
killed near St Julian on the31st of July 1917 when his
(08:14):
battalion A-post moved forwardinto a German bunker, and it
subsequently took a wrecked hitand a lot of the casualties and
the stretcher bearers werekilled there amongst them him,
his brother had been killed theprevious year at Richbourne
where he'd been awarded the MMthey were from Eastbourne in
Sussex and I've walked in theirold world, have been to the
street where they lived inEastbourne, been to the front
(08:36):
door of their house and followedthem around the battlefields and
it's always something specialreally, part of that special
connection that we have to beable to come and touch the name
of a casualty like that on amemorial.
like the Menin Gate that is infront of me now.
As the sun fades, the Menin Gateis gradually lit and the names
(08:58):
appear more strongly on thepanels in front of me.
You can possibly hear the birdsin the background in the moat.
I'm sitting in a bit of theramparts where the walls curve
slightly and I think there's asally port behind me, one of
these ancient doors that cameout from the main ramparts so
that defenders could go out toattack anyone that was trying to
assault the walls.
(09:19):
That was kind of part of theoriginal plan.
defence mechanisms that werehere when this was constructed
by the military architect Valba.
And in the Great War theseramparts were used for all kinds
of purposes.
I'm looking down a section of itnow where troops were slept and
billeted on top of theseramparts in the early phase of
(09:41):
the war where observers coulduse this high ground to look out
onto the battlefield whereeventually the chambers and the
casemates within these rampartswere used for military purposes,
for headquarters, for dugouts.
Just around the corner from theMenin Gate, some of the
tunnellers who worked up on thehigh ground of the Bellewaerde
Ridge and around Hooge carryingout that war underground were
(10:06):
billeted there and going to andfrom the line from these
positions.
So the ramparts, one of theoriginal features of Ypres that
still survives, is an important,essential part of the Great War
story here in Flanders.
So I've come into one of thekind of walkways of the Menin
(10:27):
Gate on this side facing theramparts and possibly the sound
will be a bit more echoey inhere because I'm surrounded by
the panels of names I'm lookingat one of the addenda panels
with so many names of so manydifferent regiments behind me is
the Wiltshire regiment panelswhich is quite apt because in
this series of the podcast inone of the Q&As we had a
(10:50):
question about the Wiltshireregiment and as I look back over
this season eight we've coveredquite a lot of ground and walked
quite a lot of different bits ofbattlefields and we've had
interviews with It was good tospeak to the MOD war detectives
and understand a lot more aboutthe work that they do, for
(11:10):
example.
And we've continued with thequestion and answer episodes,
and they are proving incrediblypopular.
When I first started those, Iwasn't really sure whether they
would last, looking at three orfour different aspects of the
First World War in each episodebased on your questions, and do
(11:31):
keep those questions coming.
But the questions have certainlykept coming and the diverse
nature of the questions and somereally absolutely fantastic
questions that we've had hasenabled us to talk about lots of
different aspects of the FirstWorld War and that seems very
popular to have episodes wherewe don't just focus on one thing
(11:53):
but we focus on several thingsseems to be incredibly
incredibly popular and willcertainly continue and of course
as we come to the end of thisseason I decided to redress a
balance really because wehaven't really spoken about the
war in the air very much andit's such an essential part of
the history of the Great War soI thought we'd do it properly
(12:16):
and have a kind of mini seriesand we had an introductory
episode looking at the work ofthe Royal Flying Corps and the
Royal Air Force in the Great Warand the history behind it.
We had two chats with experts inthe field, Andy Saunders about
McManach and Joshua Levinehaving a talk about the whole
experience of aerial combat inthe First World War.
(12:39):
Both of those were fantastic torecord with old friends who are
at the top of their game andincredibly knowledgeable about
those subjects.
And then following on with aspecial Q&A about The War in the
Air and an episode looking atwhat we find on the landscape of
the First World War todayrelating to that subject.
So I think that series has beenwell received and lots of
(13:02):
positive comments about thedifferent episodes and the whole
idea of having a month's worthof podcasts where we focus on
one theme is something that willcertainly go into season nine,
our next season that begins inSeptember.
So that's something to keep aneye open out or an ear open for
(13:26):
as we move forward.
Quite what the next specialsubject will be, I don't know
whether we'll focus on aparticular battle or perhaps a
particular nation, or perhapswe'll look at some of the
forgotten fronts of the FirstWorld War.
I mean, send in your emails andyour comments and your fan mail
to the podcast.
Tell me what you think.
What should we look at in aspecial series over the course
(13:49):
of the next season?
But essentially at the heart ofthis podcast, from the very
beginning, is walking theground.
And in terms of walking theground, it's obviously not a
concept that I invented.
Far from it.
It's something that many peoplehave done over many generations
of visiting battlefields.
It's a fantastic way to connectand I remember in those early
(14:12):
years of being a member of theWestern Front Association
meeting so many people whoencouraged me to get out and
walk the battlefields and that'swhat I did from the very
beginning when I visited theSomme with my dad and did
follow-up visits.
Getting out onto that ground andwalking it really helped me
connect in such a massive way onso many levels that probably at
the time I didn't fullyappreciate.
(14:35):
what we do when we do thosevirtual walks across that ground
is very much part of thispodcast and always will be and
we're far from exhausting thesubjects and the locations and
the battlefields that we can dothat so for example i'm aiming
to start the next season of thepodcast, with a walk on the
(14:57):
Somme.
As we've said, we often beginthere with a podcast season, and
it's going to be on the northernpart of the battlefield, so one
to again watch out for.
The thing that fascinates meeternally about the First World
War how all the stories kind ofweave through it i've been
mindful of that this weekwalking with a group talking to
(15:18):
them about my own experiences ofvisiting this ground over many
years telling them the storiesof some of the veterans that i
knew in the 80s and 90s bringsback into focus that part of my
life when i was so privileged tospeak to those veterans spend
time with those veterans of theGreat War, those incredible men
(15:40):
who I will be forever really intheir shadow.
All of us will be really thethings that they achieved, the
things that they experienced,and the things that they went
through.
And with a new group who'vecoming to these places for the
first time, when you tell themthose stories of the veterans,
it's just interesting to see howthey react to it.
(16:00):
it kind of pushes me forwardeven more and be determined to
continue to tell those storiesbecause I'm mindful of the fact
we all have a finite time onthis planet but that generation
has gone and they left me alegacy and I have a legacy which
I kind of want to pass on to awider audience.
(16:23):
And that's really important.
I wish more who had done similarthings would do the same.
Not everyone can or wants to.
I kind of get that.
And some, of course, like greatfriends of this podcast, like
Richard Van Emden and JoshLevine, who we spoke to
recently, have done a lot interms of oral history and
putting that out there.
(16:43):
And when we look back at RichardVan Emden's work with Harry
Patch and so many otherveterans, it's just incredible
to see that those stories areout there for us to connect to
and understand.
And I guess that I kind of oftenwonder whether the ghosts of
that past of mine of speaking tothese men, I mean, I came here
to the Menin Gate on manyoccasions and met veterans here.
(17:04):
I remember in the summer of 1986coming down to the last post one
evening, And there was aveteran, so obviously a veteran,
wearing his medals.
I went up to him and spoke tohim.
He'd served with the Royal FieldArtillery in the Ypres Salient
and he'd come to see graves ofsome of his mates and look up
some of their names on the manygate and wanted to hear the last
(17:26):
post.
It was only something that he'dread about.
It was his first trip to thebattlefields, his first return
since the end of the war in1918.
I'm mindful of those ghosts whenI walk this ground.
They are ever-present, and Ithink they're important, really,
(17:47):
because it is all too easy for asubject like the First World War
to kind of fade away.
That's what those veterans thatI met always worried about, and
some were convinced that itwould happen.
They used to say to me, I don'tknow why you're interested in
this old war of ours, go out andlive your life.
When we're dead, no one willremember it.
And I was always counteringthat.
(18:08):
Well, no, you know, come on,Harry, come on, Malcolm, come
on, George, come on, Albert,whoever it was, that isn't going
to happen.
You will always be remembered.
What you achieved, what you wentthrough, that war will never be,
must never be forgotten.
And all of us, I'm sure many ofyou All of you who listen to
(18:29):
this podcast play your part inthat by researching family
members coming out to thebattlefields, going to museums,
reading books, telling otherpeople about your interests and
about the subject.
All of that is part of it.
But has the Great War gonethrough one of its cycles?
Interest in the Great War, hasit gone through one of its
cycles?
(18:49):
As I was just walking down theramparts to come here, I was
thinking about the first time Icame to Ypres in 1982.
and how there were so fewBritish visitors and so few
people at the last post ceremonyat the Menin Gate and Not much
public interest or connection toit.
Now, of course, none of that isreally true today, but it has
(19:11):
certainly lessened since thecentenary.
But is there a chance that theGreat War might drift into
obscurity again?
The chances of us seeingdocumentaries on it on the
television are pretty slim.
Most of that kind of material isbeing made on YouTube now, on
First and Second World Warchannels, military history
channels.
(19:32):
That's where people go to,really, YouTube to...
to find their factual history,the factual content that they
don't see on mainstreamchannels.
Very few books being publishedon the First World War, a few
academic titles.
I picked up some recently thathave got some fantastic insights
into the First World War, butpopular books are few and far
(19:54):
between.
And I understand publishers havealmost no interest in publishing
anything about the Great War.
Perhaps that will change.
What will change it, I don'tknow.
Back in the 80s, it wasn't clearhow it would ever change.
But I think that, I guess forme, it makes me even more
determined to carry on with thevisits that I make, the material
(20:17):
that I produce and create onlinevia YouTube, via this podcast.
And I know many of you haveworked on websites and produced
material and are researchingindividuals that you've gone on
to then write about, perhaps inthe pages of Western Front
Association journals or theGreat War Group journal.
(20:38):
All of that is important.
Keep on your research, keepwriting, keep discovering, keep
wanting to know more becausethat's what drives us to
understand but I think alsodrives us to never forget.
And as I've sat here andrecorded this, gradually the sun
(21:00):
has drifted and set and there'sa small amount of light over the
city The lights of the MeninGate, I'm looking down one long
corridor of it now, and there'sa wooden cross and some wreaths
scattered at different points,poppy crosses plopped up against
some of the panels where peoplehave visited.
(21:22):
It's different to the 80s.
Great War isn't going todisappear and an interest in it
and a reason for people to comeand connect with ancestors that
they've never known and perhapsnever even seen a photograph of
that continues.
It's a powerful, powerfulsubject and I don't think
(21:43):
anyone's going to suddenly stopdoing that soon because as we've
said on this podcast so manytimes, there are so many layers
to the Great War.
those crisscross paths and howone subject suddenly connects to
another and then here on a quietevening with the noise of the
(22:05):
modern world around me, peoplegoing about their lives, living,
continuing, exactly what thesemen fought for, for Belgium to
be free and the Belgian peopleto fulfill their potential.
but that modern world somehowcriss-crosses as well with the
Menin Gate and everything thatis here.
(22:26):
And as I cast my eyes across thelists of names here, just
rounding this visit to the MeninGate at night, not quite at
midnight, but coming here to seethese long lists of names, my
eyes cast their way across thoselists.
So I soon called them namelessnames, I don't subscribe to that
view.
(22:47):
Each name was a life, each namewas a man who had hopes and
dreams and aspirations, wantedto love and be loved, left
behind family, left behindchildren.
people that they never wanted toforget, people that they hoped
to return to but the cruel handof war robbed them of that and
(23:10):
in the case of names on amemorial like this robbed them
of a known grave as well.
These are the undying stories ofthe First World War and perhaps
also the unending because withmissing soldiers and the work of
archaeologists and the way thelandscape changes here.
(23:31):
Perhaps some of the names who'vefallen before my eyes tonight,
perhaps one day they will bediscovered, recovered,
identified and there will be aheadstone in one of the silent
cities of the dead around Ypresbearing their name.
And recently I was looking at abook called Northamptonshire and
(23:52):
the Great War and I've justchanced across the
Northamptonshire Regiment panel,and there's Lieutenant Colonel
Mobs.
He commanded the battalion ofthe North Ants, killed in the
Third Battle of Ypres in 1917, arugby player, and the Mobs match
is still played in his memory.
It's like seeing the names ofold friends when you chance
(24:16):
across these things, men whosestories you know, whose paths
and lives you followed.
And that's it, really.
That's what the subject of theFirst World War on so many
levels is all about.
Those ordinary men and womenaffected by this conflict, in
this conflict, never returningfrom this conflict.
(24:41):
They haunt us, I think, in agood way.
And this is a good place as thelight fades and the new light of
the Menin Gate shines acrossthese names.
I guess, as I say, they're ourgrounding, they're our
(25:01):
conscience, that they're thereason that we return so
frequently to see and connectand understand to that landscape
of the First World War, to walkand never forget, but to walk
those pathways, those, in someways, never-ending pathways, of
(25:27):
the old front line.
Check out the website atoldfrontline.co.uk where you'll
(25:49):
find lots of podcast extras andphotographs and links to books
that are mentioned in thepodcast.
And if you feel like supportingus, you can go to our Patreon
page, patreon.com slasholdfrontline or support us on
Buy Me A Coffee atbuymeacoffee.com slash
oldfrontline.
Links to all of these are on ourwebsite.
(26:10):
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you again soon.
This is the third and final bonus episode of
season eight of the OldFrontline podcast and I've come
up onto the ramparts in the cityof Ypres.
We often start a podcast serieson the Somme and this time it's
kind of fitting perhaps to endhere in Flanders in this city of
(00:32):
Ypres that means so much to thesacrifice of the First World
War, the remembrance of theFirst World War and that wider
culture of the old front line.
And I've come to sit thisevening on the rampart walls
overlooking the Menin Gates.
As many of you who listen to thepodcast will know or keep an eye
(00:53):
on the news related to thebattlefields and the landscape
of the First World War, thismemorial has been under
renovation for the last fewyears.
And for me, this is the firsttime I've come and been able to
gain full access to it again inthe way that we used to get
access to it before.
So it's quite nice to do that.
(01:15):
And I'm here this week becauseI'm walking the battle I'm here
with my old friend and colleagueDr Victoria Humphreys and we're
taking a ledger group around thebattlefields of Ypres and doing
a double act with me doing thehistory and some of the
anecdotes and her providingreadings from some of the
literature and poetry of theFirst World War.
(01:37):
And it's an interesting groupand an interested group who have
a lot of connections to thefighting here in the First World
War.
This is one of the things thatyou discover when you bring
parties of people to thesebattlefields.
You uncover all their familyinformation and see their family
photographs, and we've seen alot of that this week, which has
been really great.
It's absolutely what makes thesetrips in many, many ways and
(01:58):
it's great to get out on thegrounds.
Today we were walking thebattlefields around
Passchendaele from Tyne Cot downto Waterfields and Marsh Bottoms
and up to Crest Farm and intothe village itself, that
sacrificial ground from 1917that is so important in our
wider understanding of the FirstWorld War, ground that I've
(02:19):
walked many, many times over theyears and I've written about in
books but never, never ceases toimpress me and move me when
we're there.
And even in Tyne Cot, someoneasked me today, how many times
have you been to Tyne Cot?
And I honestly don't know, butit is hundreds and hundreds of
(02:39):
times with groups over the yearsand in individual visits as
well.
But again, I never tire of that.
How could you tire of it?
Coming to these places,connecting with these places,
seeing the landscape.
And I've seen that landscapechange and evolve, change and
evolve many, many times.
(03:00):
And it will no doubt continue tofor the rest of my life and for
generations to come.
And there always feels as ifthere's something different to
see, something new to connectto.
and long may that be really,long may that be.
So I'm sat here and it'srelatively quiet.
There's people just inMeninstraat over to my right
(03:23):
that are drinking in the cornerpub there, which is frequented
by a lot of battlefieldvisitors.
There's people, it's a holidayperiod, people walking along the
moat over towards the campingground and some of the places
where there's accommodationhere.
and many of these people perhapsalso have come to see some of
these battlefields but perhapsare just holidaying here having
no real idea of what theseplaces are or what even the
(03:45):
Menin Gate is but it's been verybusy for the last post over the
course of this week it wasabsolutely jam-packed with
people yesterday which isastonishing really 10 years on
from the centenary people arestill coming here wanting to
understand it perhaps see it andI'm sure there is a kind of
tourist element to it to acertain degree But perhaps
(04:08):
people who come here from thatperspective become moved by what
they see and go away and want tofind out more.
And sitting here as the sun setsover the city of Ypres, the last
rays of ancient sunlight fadingover the spires and the rooftops
of Ypres now.
There were some swallows in thesky above me earlier.
(04:30):
The swifts have almost gone.
I thought today when I was inthe valley before Passchendaele
that I heard a skylark, which issomething that is rare for me to
hear a skylark in Flanders.
Perhaps I dreamt it.
there is a lot more kind ofrough ground in that area of the
battlefield now pasture landthat's just left to go wild
(04:50):
which is what birds likeskylarks really love because
they're ground nesting birds andall of that layer which I
discuss so often here on the oldfront line is all part of the
connection that we have when wecome to these places and tonight
I've come up and I've had a walkround the Menin Gate to see what
(05:13):
the renovations that have beenongoing for the last couple of
years what they have beenprincipally about and I've
noticed that on the kind of sidepanels as you walk through the
two archway entrances and go upto the next level those panels
have been extensively repairedin some cases by the look of it
replaced or re-engraved andthey're looking pretty new some
(05:34):
of the other panels look less sofor the fact that this has not
been accessible and under worksfor the last couple of years and
this isn't a criticism of theCommonwealth War Graves
Commission but they don't lookvery different to what they
looked like two years ago.
Maybe this is part of along-term project to look at all
the panels and all the names anddo something with them, but
perhaps as yet it's unfinished.
(05:54):
I believe up on the roof they'vedone a lot of work there, a lot
of remedial work to thestructure, some of the damage
that was done in the SecondWorld War.
This is one of those placeswhere The First World War meets
the Second World War, thosecrisscross paths, and there was
fighting here in May 1940.
I'm looking down the Menin Stratup towards the point where it
(06:18):
curves to the right and heads toHellfire Corner, and that's the
direction the Germans werecoming from in May 1940.
British troops had occupied theMenin Gate, and the Moat Bridge
was blown by a Royal Engineersofficer.
It's mentioned in his militarycross citation.
He was awarded the MC for hiswork here, and the destruction
of that Moat Bridge is somethingthat's mentioned in his MC
(06:39):
citation and with blowing ofthat moat bridge it damaged the
front of the memorial theGermans opened fire with various
weapon systems including a 20mmanti-aircraft gun supposedly
which chewed up the line on topof the men in gates so a lot of
damage was done and I picked uprecently some German photographs
of the gate from 1941 whichshows that damage quite clearly
(07:04):
and the commission I believehave been doing a lot of that
remedial work again becausealthough it was patched up after
the second world war I don'tthink that was done perfectly in
the 1950s, so they've had to goback and revisit that work.
As with all these memorials, Imean, they are mighty structures
in all kinds of ways, on allkinds of levels, and the
maintenance of them is a verydifficult prospect and a costly
(07:27):
prospect, no doubt.
But it's good to have access tothe gate again.
It's felt strange not to be ableto go up those little side
corridors and touch the names ofso many soldiers that I've
researched over the years, whosephotographs that I have, whose
documents that I have, whosemedals that I have or memorial
plaques that I've found tuckedaway in junk shops, you know, in
(07:50):
those old days in Sussex,picking those kind of things up.
It's great to be able to comeout and touch those names.
I went to the name of Len Weston the Royal Sussex panels
tonight, and he was a militarymedal winner.
He got his MM as a stretcherbearer at the Boar's Head at
Richborg with the South DownsBattalions, and then he was
killed near St Julian on the31st of July 1917 when his
(08:14):
battalion A-post moved forwardinto a German bunker, and it
subsequently took a wrecked hitand a lot of the casualties and
the stretcher bearers werekilled there amongst them him,
his brother had been killed theprevious year at Richbourne
where he'd been awarded the MMthey were from Eastbourne in
Sussex and I've walked in theirold world, have been to the
street where they lived inEastbourne, been to the front
(08:36):
door of their house and followedthem around the battlefields and
it's always something specialreally, part of that special
connection that we have to beable to come and touch the name
of a casualty like that on amemorial.
like the Menin Gate that is infront of me now.
As the sun fades, the Menin Gateis gradually lit and the names
(08:58):
appear more strongly on thepanels in front of me.
You can possibly hear the birdsin the background in the moat.
I'm sitting in a bit of theramparts where the walls curve
slightly and I think there's asally port behind me, one of
these ancient doors that cameout from the main ramparts so
that defenders could go out toattack anyone that was trying to
assault the walls.
(09:19):
That was kind of part of theoriginal plan.
defence mechanisms that werehere when this was constructed
by the military architect Valba.
And in the Great War theseramparts were used for all kinds
of purposes.
I'm looking down a section of itnow where troops were slept and
billeted on top of theseramparts in the early phase of
(09:41):
the war where observers coulduse this high ground to look out
onto the battlefield whereeventually the chambers and the
casemates within these rampartswere used for military purposes,
for headquarters, for dugouts.
Just around the corner from theMenin Gate, some of the
tunnellers who worked up on thehigh ground of the Bellewaerde
Ridge and around Hooge carryingout that war underground were
(10:06):
billeted there and going to andfrom the line from these
positions.
So the ramparts, one of theoriginal features of Ypres that
still survives, is an important,essential part of the Great War
story here in Flanders.
So I've come into one of thekind of walkways of the Menin
(10:27):
Gate on this side facing theramparts and possibly the sound
will be a bit more echoey inhere because I'm surrounded by
the panels of names I'm lookingat one of the addenda panels
with so many names of so manydifferent regiments behind me is
the Wiltshire regiment panelswhich is quite apt because in
this series of the podcast inone of the Q&As we had a
(10:50):
question about the Wiltshireregiment and as I look back over
this season eight we've coveredquite a lot of ground and walked
quite a lot of different bits ofbattlefields and we've had
interviews with It was good tospeak to the MOD war detectives
and understand a lot more aboutthe work that they do, for
(11:10):
example.
And we've continued with thequestion and answer episodes,
and they are proving incrediblypopular.
When I first started those, Iwasn't really sure whether they
would last, looking at three orfour different aspects of the
First World War in each episodebased on your questions, and do
(11:31):
keep those questions coming.
But the questions have certainlykept coming and the diverse
nature of the questions and somereally absolutely fantastic
questions that we've had hasenabled us to talk about lots of
different aspects of the FirstWorld War and that seems very
popular to have episodes wherewe don't just focus on one thing
(11:53):
but we focus on several thingsseems to be incredibly
incredibly popular and willcertainly continue and of course
as we come to the end of thisseason I decided to redress a
balance really because wehaven't really spoken about the
war in the air very much andit's such an essential part of
the history of the Great War soI thought we'd do it properly
(12:16):
and have a kind of mini seriesand we had an introductory
episode looking at the work ofthe Royal Flying Corps and the
Royal Air Force in the Great Warand the history behind it.
We had two chats with experts inthe field, Andy Saunders about
McManach and Joshua Levinehaving a talk about the whole
experience of aerial combat inthe First World War.
(12:39):
Both of those were fantastic torecord with old friends who are
at the top of their game andincredibly knowledgeable about
those subjects.
And then following on with aspecial Q&A about The War in the
Air and an episode looking atwhat we find on the landscape of
the First World War todayrelating to that subject.
So I think that series has beenwell received and lots of
(13:02):
positive comments about thedifferent episodes and the whole
idea of having a month's worthof podcasts where we focus on
one theme is something that willcertainly go into season nine,
our next season that begins inSeptember.
So that's something to keep aneye open out or an ear open for
(13:26):
as we move forward.
Quite what the next specialsubject will be, I don't know
whether we'll focus on aparticular battle or perhaps a
particular nation, or perhapswe'll look at some of the
forgotten fronts of the FirstWorld War.
I mean, send in your emails andyour comments and your fan mail
to the podcast.
Tell me what you think.
What should we look at in aspecial series over the course
(13:49):
of the next season?
But essentially at the heart ofthis podcast, from the very
beginning, is walking theground.
And in terms of walking theground, it's obviously not a
concept that I invented.
Far from it.
It's something that many peoplehave done over many generations
of visiting battlefields.
It's a fantastic way to connectand I remember in those early
(14:12):
years of being a member of theWestern Front Association
meeting so many people whoencouraged me to get out and
walk the battlefields and that'swhat I did from the very
beginning when I visited theSomme with my dad and did
follow-up visits.
Getting out onto that ground andwalking it really helped me
connect in such a massive way onso many levels that probably at
the time I didn't fullyappreciate.
(14:35):
what we do when we do thosevirtual walks across that ground
is very much part of thispodcast and always will be and
we're far from exhausting thesubjects and the locations and
the battlefields that we can dothat so for example i'm aiming
to start the next season of thepodcast, with a walk on the
(14:57):
Somme.
As we've said, we often beginthere with a podcast season, and
it's going to be on the northernpart of the battlefield, so one
to again watch out for.
The thing that fascinates meeternally about the First World
War how all the stories kind ofweave through it i've been
mindful of that this weekwalking with a group talking to
(15:18):
them about my own experiences ofvisiting this ground over many
years telling them the storiesof some of the veterans that i
knew in the 80s and 90s bringsback into focus that part of my
life when i was so privileged tospeak to those veterans spend
time with those veterans of theGreat War, those incredible men
(15:40):
who I will be forever really intheir shadow.
All of us will be really thethings that they achieved, the
things that they experienced,and the things that they went
through.
And with a new group who'vecoming to these places for the
first time, when you tell themthose stories of the veterans,
it's just interesting to see howthey react to it.
(16:00):
it kind of pushes me forwardeven more and be determined to
continue to tell those storiesbecause I'm mindful of the fact
we all have a finite time onthis planet but that generation
has gone and they left me alegacy and I have a legacy which
I kind of want to pass on to awider audience.
(16:23):
And that's really important.
I wish more who had done similarthings would do the same.
Not everyone can or wants to.
I kind of get that.
And some, of course, like greatfriends of this podcast, like
Richard Van Emden and JoshLevine, who we spoke to
recently, have done a lot interms of oral history and
putting that out there.
(16:43):
And when we look back at RichardVan Emden's work with Harry
Patch and so many otherveterans, it's just incredible
to see that those stories areout there for us to connect to
and understand.
And I guess that I kind of oftenwonder whether the ghosts of
that past of mine of speaking tothese men, I mean, I came here
to the Menin Gate on manyoccasions and met veterans here.
(17:04):
I remember in the summer of 1986coming down to the last post one
evening, And there was aveteran, so obviously a veteran,
wearing his medals.
I went up to him and spoke tohim.
He'd served with the Royal FieldArtillery in the Ypres Salient
and he'd come to see graves ofsome of his mates and look up
some of their names on the manygate and wanted to hear the last
(17:26):
post.
It was only something that he'dread about.
It was his first trip to thebattlefields, his first return
since the end of the war in1918.
I'm mindful of those ghosts whenI walk this ground.
They are ever-present, and Ithink they're important, really,
(17:47):
because it is all too easy for asubject like the First World War
to kind of fade away.
That's what those veterans thatI met always worried about, and
some were convinced that itwould happen.
They used to say to me, I don'tknow why you're interested in
this old war of ours, go out andlive your life.
When we're dead, no one willremember it.
And I was always counteringthat.
(18:08):
Well, no, you know, come on,Harry, come on, Malcolm, come
on, George, come on, Albert,whoever it was, that isn't going
to happen.
You will always be remembered.
What you achieved, what you wentthrough, that war will never be,
must never be forgotten.
And all of us, I'm sure many ofyou All of you who listen to
(18:29):
this podcast play your part inthat by researching family
members coming out to thebattlefields, going to museums,
reading books, telling otherpeople about your interests and
about the subject.
All of that is part of it.
But has the Great War gonethrough one of its cycles?
Interest in the Great War, hasit gone through one of its
cycles?
(18:49):
As I was just walking down theramparts to come here, I was
thinking about the first time Icame to Ypres in 1982.
and how there were so fewBritish visitors and so few
people at the last post ceremonyat the Menin Gate and Not much
public interest or connection toit.
Now, of course, none of that isreally true today, but it has
(19:11):
certainly lessened since thecentenary.
But is there a chance that theGreat War might drift into
obscurity again?
The chances of us seeingdocumentaries on it on the
television are pretty slim.
Most of that kind of material isbeing made on YouTube now, on
First and Second World Warchannels, military history
channels.
(19:32):
That's where people go to,really, YouTube to...
to find their factual history,the factual content that they
don't see on mainstreamchannels.
Very few books being publishedon the First World War, a few
academic titles.
I picked up some recently thathave got some fantastic insights
into the First World War, butpopular books are few and far
(19:54):
between.
And I understand publishers havealmost no interest in publishing
anything about the Great War.
Perhaps that will change.
What will change it, I don'tknow.
Back in the 80s, it wasn't clearhow it would ever change.
But I think that, I guess forme, it makes me even more
determined to carry on with thevisits that I make, the material
(20:17):
that I produce and create onlinevia YouTube, via this podcast.
And I know many of you haveworked on websites and produced
material and are researchingindividuals that you've gone on
to then write about, perhaps inthe pages of Western Front
Association journals or theGreat War Group journal.
(20:38):
All of that is important.
Keep on your research, keepwriting, keep discovering, keep
wanting to know more becausethat's what drives us to
understand but I think alsodrives us to never forget.
And as I've sat here andrecorded this, gradually the sun
(21:00):
has drifted and set and there'sa small amount of light over the
city The lights of the MeninGate, I'm looking down one long
corridor of it now, and there'sa wooden cross and some wreaths
scattered at different points,poppy crosses plopped up against
some of the panels where peoplehave visited.
(21:22):
It's different to the 80s.
Great War isn't going todisappear and an interest in it
and a reason for people to comeand connect with ancestors that
they've never known and perhapsnever even seen a photograph of
that continues.
It's a powerful, powerfulsubject and I don't think
(21:43):
anyone's going to suddenly stopdoing that soon because as we've
said on this podcast so manytimes, there are so many layers
to the Great War.
those crisscross paths and howone subject suddenly connects to
another and then here on a quietevening with the noise of the
(22:05):
modern world around me, peoplegoing about their lives, living,
continuing, exactly what thesemen fought for, for Belgium to
be free and the Belgian peopleto fulfill their potential.
but that modern world somehowcriss-crosses as well with the
Menin Gate and everything thatis here.
(22:26):
And as I cast my eyes across thelists of names here, just
rounding this visit to the MeninGate at night, not quite at
midnight, but coming here to seethese long lists of names, my
eyes cast their way across thoselists.
So I soon called them namelessnames, I don't subscribe to that
view.
(22:47):
Each name was a life, each namewas a man who had hopes and
dreams and aspirations, wantedto love and be loved, left
behind family, left behindchildren.
people that they never wanted toforget, people that they hoped
to return to but the cruel handof war robbed them of that and
(23:10):
in the case of names on amemorial like this robbed them
of a known grave as well.
These are the undying stories ofthe First World War and perhaps
also the unending because withmissing soldiers and the work of
archaeologists and the way thelandscape changes here.
(23:31):
Perhaps some of the names who'vefallen before my eyes tonight,
perhaps one day they will bediscovered, recovered,
identified and there will be aheadstone in one of the silent
cities of the dead around Ypresbearing their name.
And recently I was looking at abook called Northamptonshire and
(23:52):
the Great War and I've justchanced across the
Northamptonshire Regiment panel,and there's Lieutenant Colonel
Mobs.
He commanded the battalion ofthe North Ants, killed in the
Third Battle of Ypres in 1917, arugby player, and the Mobs match
is still played in his memory.
It's like seeing the names ofold friends when you chance
(24:16):
across these things, men whosestories you know, whose paths
and lives you followed.
And that's it, really.
That's what the subject of theFirst World War on so many
levels is all about.
Those ordinary men and womenaffected by this conflict, in
this conflict, never returningfrom this conflict.
(24:41):
They haunt us, I think, in agood way.
And this is a good place as thelight fades and the new light of
the Menin Gate shines acrossthese names.
I guess, as I say, they're ourgrounding, they're our
(25:01):
conscience, that they're thereason that we return so
frequently to see and connectand understand to that landscape
of the First World War, to walkand never forget, but to walk
those pathways, those, in someways, never-ending pathways, of
(25:27):
the old front line.
Check out the website atoldfrontline.co.uk where you'll
(25:49):
find lots of podcast extras andphotographs and links to books
that are mentioned in thepodcast.
And if you feel like supportingus, you can go to our Patreon
page, patreon.com slasholdfrontline or support us on
Buy Me A Coffee atbuymeacoffee.com slash
oldfrontline.
Links to all of these are on ourwebsite.
(26:10):
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you again soon.
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