S3E09: Super Mario World -or- Eggs-it, Stage Right

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I don't know where my Genesis could be.
I haven't seen my Super Nintendosince 2003.
That's all right. I don't mind.
I've got a switch in the old switch room.

(00:22):
My friend Mike and Jamo too. All right everyone, welcome back
to the old Switcheroo where we're talking gaming retro with
Mike and Jamo. I'm Mike.
And I'm Jamo, I'll play along onour epic quest to research and
review all 250 plus games in theNintendo Classics catalog.
Today we are spinning and slipping our way through the

(00:43):
classic Super Mario World for the SNES in an episode we are
calling Exit Stage right now. Mike, I'm not gonna lie.
I'm proud of this one. What do you think?
Do you get it? It works on multiple levels.
Yeah, no, this, this is one of your better ones.
Yeah, yeah. You know what?
Don't overthink it. Because you have someone with us

(01:04):
today who can do the overthinking for us, don't you?
Yeah, I'm very proud to have Dempsey from the Overthinking
Games podcast, which I've been listening to for well over a
year. So, Dempsey, thank you for being
here. Yeah.
Is it because Yoshi is out for the pun?
Is that what? I yes, exit, that's good.

(01:27):
Exit stage right is a great. Term Yeah, I and yeah.
You got to egg it. That's OK.
Fantastic. 10 out of 10. It's been nice having you,
Dempsey. Good to see.
You. Yeah, OK, Mike, that was an
extraordinarily kind introduction.
I appreciate that. It's crazy that we have people
who listen to us talk. So my name is Dempsey.

(01:47):
I'm one of the Co hosts of a podcast.
This is where I pitched. This is where I wait to see what
I talk about. OK, go for it.
Fantastic. So and we do.
It's called Overthinking games, a podcast about what video games
can teach us. And so two of us, not me, but
the other ones, Seth and Katie are both teachers and we look at

(02:07):
video games from a vaguely sometimes educational
perspective and then sometimes it's just literal curriculum
theory and then sometimes it's just video games.
So I guess hitting that specificteacher video game niche and
yeah, we're on TikTok. You can find us on TikTok at

(02:28):
overthinking games comment and boost my self esteem.
And then if you want to downloadand then send us an e-mail if
you have literally any opinion at all about anything that we
say. Anyway, yeah, so that's that's
the that's the go listen to Apple podcast wherever you got
this podcast. You can find our podcast.
I love that concept of the teacher gaming from the teacher

(02:50):
lens. Like I used to use Super Mario
64 to teach basic plot structure.
Level 1 literally has like your,your, you know, your setting,
your establishment, your rising action, literal rising action.
You know, the music changes for the climax of the episode.
So yeah, I, I think, you know, bringing your kind of take on
the educational perspective withgaming is, is super fun.

(03:13):
I listen to your episode about inscription.
Oh yeah. Totally fantastic game on
Nintendo Switch. I'm bummed Mike hasn't tried it
yet 'cause you got to be carefulwith what you say about
inscription, Dempsey. Wouldn't you agree?
The less you know about that onethe better.
Yeah, yes. If you have any enjoyment of
like deck builders, I think Inscription's a game for you.
Yeah, but I so I noticed though,you know, that that game is, has

(03:35):
almost nothing in common with Super Mario World.
So is is is there something about a quality of a game that
will pull you more than others? No, absolutely not.
It's very arbitrary. I have my taste, I do not try to
justify. I think the brain forms an
opinion and then you retroactively create a story to
justify that opinion. And so I am under no illusion

(03:55):
that I have any consistency in what I like out of a video game
at all. It's just it either hits or it
doesn't and then I will try to justify my opinion afterwards.
That's true. I I, Yeah.
Also Inscription is a game that I have changed my opinion about.
I'm not as in love with it as I used to be, but that's for
that's for another episode. Yeah, I'll fight you on that

(04:17):
one. Well guys, without any further
ado, I think we should probably get started.
Are you all ready to go on a crusade against the Koopalings?
Yeah. Ready, Mike?
Yep. OK, so let's dive into Super
Mario World on the SNES, released in 1991.

(04:40):
As described on Nintendo classics, during a vacation in
Dinosaur Land, Princess Toadstool gets kidnapped and a
spell is cast on the inhabitantsof the island when they stumble
upon Yoshi. Mario and Luigi learned that
Bowser is responsible for the terrible misdeeds.
Now Yoshi's are trapped in magical eggs that Bowser has
hidden throughout 7 castles. Many hidden paths aid Mario in
making his way to Bowser's Castle, completing 74 areas and

(05:04):
finding all 96 exits. Discover items including a
feather that gives Mario a Cape allowing him to fly, and a
flower that lets him shoot fireballs in layer upon layer of
2D scrolling landscape. You can even ride Yoshi and
swallow your enemies. I don't know, I think it covers
it. That is a weirdly annoying
description. Other than the improper comma

(05:26):
usage, because that drove me nuts.
Actually, well, so there there'sthe improper comma usage later
on. Yeah, comma splice there's.
Also the correct usage early on that I misused we we don't
normally have tantrics about theabout why the Oxford comma is
important. But when they stumble upon Yoshi

(05:47):
comma, Mario and Luigi learn really is easy to read as when
they stumble upon Yoshi Mario and Luigi and then be like, now
this doesn't make sense. Yeah, OK, sorry.
That that that just. I don't know how they did the
commas so precisely correct there and then screwed it up
easy at the end. Listen, leave a comment, you

(06:08):
guys, if you understand what happened with the commas in this
description punctuation, Mike, keep it classy.
Come on. We're going to send an e-mail to
Mr. Nintendo. Yeah, literally unplayable.
I blame Bowser. There you go.
But not Doug Bowser. He wasn't in charge of Nintendo
yet. So let's take a look at the box
art, since it was off in People's First Impressions North

(06:30):
America when we got the simple image of Yoshi leaping across
the front of the packaging with a kicked Mario riding on his
saddle. Dempsey.
So you, you you've liked this game for a while.
Did you keep the box as a kid? So, yeah, well, yes, so it was.
So this game came out. I was already.
Well, no, I was. This game came out way before I
was born. So by the time I was, it was

(06:52):
like an old game that we had by the time I was playing it, but
we had the box art and we had the, we had the thingy.
So I know, so I've, I've listened to it and I know I'm
going to. I'm sorry if it's thrown off
your format. This is a disclaimer of my
relationship to this game. It's really hard for me to
criticize this game because of how much I love it.

(07:13):
Like there is no sense of like looking at the cons to or like
being like, oh, no, this box artshould look like this or it's
good. No, I love everything about this
game. So deep.
So like, yeah, I think this captures like the movement and
the fun and like the fact look at his face and he's riding a
dinosaur. Like I don't know what else.
I don't. I don't know.

(07:33):
I I love this. I love this box art so much.
I think it's like it's very simple character like, and
you're you're going to your character is going to move.
And that's the thing that you know about this game is that
it's going to involve a lot of movement and a dinosaur.
And I think it it's very simple and communicates that.
And I love the primary colors inthe OR like the really bold,

(07:57):
really saturated colors in the logo.
I think that like, I have so much nostalgia for that
specific, I mean for this specific image, but yeah, I I
love how the different letters pop up and it feels like it has
texture to it. So I think you covered
everything. That's great about it.
So I'm curious, because you havesuch nostalgia for it, if you
will like the Japanese one better.

(08:18):
Mike, can I show him? Before we go to that, I just
want to say this. I find myself weirdly distracted
by the fact that like Mario White riding, Yoshi seems very
excited and like they've got speed lines, that he's going
fast and everything, and there'sthis sense of energy and Yoshi
is looking back at Mario very chill, and this feels both

(08:41):
unsafe and weirdly unsettling tome.
Yes, yes, he's kind of giving Mario bedroom eyes.
If we're going to be totally honest with it, Something's
going on there. Yeah, yeah.
It's like he's, I think, you know, I think there's a tension
between the two. I just I think Yoshi should have
have eyes on the road. Sure.
Like this is how you run into something.

(09:01):
I they're they're gonna be jumping, but I mean like, you
know, keeping it classy. Actually, I do think you're
mentioning of like I didn't occur to me that with the poses.
This is going to be a movement heavy game.
Mario's Cape is behind him. Yoshi's leaping.
You must get that sense of movement.
So Japanese one, very similar but in.
The There's so much more going on.
A lot more going on Dempsey, want to describe what you're

(09:22):
seeing for our audio listeners? Yeah.
So it's like a, it's a sphere. It's like the planet Earth.
It's like a globe and you have different land masses on the
globe with different characters on them, disproportionately
large to how big they would be on an actual planet.
We got some singing mushrooms, which I don't think appear.
I don't think there's any singing mushrooms.
But we have the wizard. You have the bullet that's going

(09:45):
around the planet following the curvature of the Earth.
You have some dolphins leaping out of the sea.
You have two different Mario's on this box, one that is holding
a baby dinosaur and one that is riding Yoshi.
It's going, it's going to the left, which is interesting.
Yeah. And I don't know.
Yeah, it's it's also very yellow.

(10:06):
Whereas the other one had a bluebackground, this one this one
has a yellow background. Mario's still looking dead
ahead. Yoshi's still looking back at.
Mario, it's the same. It's the.
Same. It's different.
Drawings off of you. Well, I I think it actually is
the same drawing the just the proportions are a little
squished. I am unconvinced by that.
OK. But I, I, I, I think it is

(10:28):
interesting, though, that this concept of the cover art with,
like Dempsey said, it's the depiction of a world behind
Yoshi and Mario, and everything is kind of popping out of it
very cartoonishly. And it's all following the
curvature. Like you can see the bullet
curving around the world. It's actually really reminiscent
of a game that would come out 16years later, which would be

(10:49):
Assassin's Creed. No, I'm kidding.
It's Mario Galaxy, right? Mario Galaxy?
This is like. Would you guys agree?
This feels like someone looked at this and got the idea for
Mario Galaxy. Yeah, 100%, absolutely.
Yeah. I.
Also find it an interesting choice that on this one Mario
and Yoshi are going to the left.Right.

(11:09):
Yeah. And just from like a general
general thing of like both certainly in the games, it is
always your forward progression is to the right.
Yeah, it's, it's it. I'd be interested to know why
they flipped it. I wonder, do you know what?
Well, how do you read is? I don't know how to read
Japanese. Wait, which way do you read
Japanese? I know some language.
OK, like. Oh, there you go.

(11:31):
So it kind of makes more sense that if your brain thinks a
forward progression is left, someone leave a comment if
someone knows, 'cause we're justmaking this up as we go.
So Super Mario World was directed by Takashi Tazuka, we
enjoyed his work in Season 2 when we covered The Legend of
Zelda A Link to the Past, and wewill of course see him again
when we go back to cover Super Mario Brothers two and three for

(11:52):
the NES and the SNES and the Game Boy Advance, maybe the Wii,
I don't know, we'll get into it.But you know, Nintendo likes
making ports of their old games.Normally this would be the part
of the show where I would hit you guys with some fun Super
Mario World trivia, but since Dempsey chose such a universally
acclaimed game and so widely discussed, I thought instead we

(12:14):
could play another round of our mini game minute, which is Mario
Mythbusters. You guys down?
OK, yeah, let's do this. All right, so I'm going to read
you guys a fun fact about Super Mario World, and it's your job
to decide if it's fake news or the Real McCoy.
Basically just true or false. And I'll keep score.
You guys ready? Yeah.
OK, round Number one, true or false?
Yoshi was originally intended tobe included in the NES Mario

(12:37):
games, but developers were not able to get the riding mechanic
to work on the 8 bit hardware. True or false, Dempsey will go
with you first. I've seen that in at least one
YouTube video, so I'm gonna say true.
I believe everything I say on YouTube.
OK, Mike, agree. I was going to go false but as
soon as he's like well I am aware of this.
I feel like I made the wrong choice, but I'll stick with it.

(13:00):
All right, so that is one point for Dempsey.
It is in fact true Yoshi. According to the fan site Supper
Mario Broth. In a 1990 interview, famed Mario
producer Shigiro Miyamoto said he originally had a vision of
Mario riding a horse or an ostrich like creature.
He even had this sketch of Marioriding on dinosaur taped to his

(13:21):
desk for over 5 years before hisvision was finally realized in
Super Mario World. So I I thought that.
Was pretty cool. I was going to say that.
Did that, did that. Drawing looks very joust.
Yeah, there you go. Mike always goes back to joust
with you, doesn't it? Everything should.
Yeah, this drawing actually, this is interesting because you
can kind of see how Mario's 8 bit, but Yoshi is more

(13:44):
conceptual and doesn't see how Mario's more square.
I do see how he would fit on theand on the grid, but Yoshi
himself is still being worked out and like what the feel would
be before they. That's interesting.
That's like a a process of iteration.
That's cool. But it's neat though, 'cause
you're right, I, I never thoughtabout that before, but you could
almost see Shigeto Miyamoto thinking forward and being like,
OK, the game's, you know, it's, it's fascinating to see that

(14:08):
difference. OK, question #2 true or false?
Mario is punching the back of Yoshi's head to get him to shoot
out his tongue and slurp up enemies.
So Dempsey will go first since you're in the lead.
Oh, I think so. He either hits him.
He definitely hits. I think he hits his head.
Yeah, I'm gonna. Say, is that true?
OK, Mike. How do I feel like we've had
this discussion before and therefore I should know how that

(14:32):
played out? I'm gonna go false.
One point for Mike, although theoriginal intent was according to
a 2017 IGN article, was to have Mario hitting him in the back of
the head. Director Tazuka stated that the
sound effect of Mario striking Yoshi's head was replaced with
something resembling the word eco or go in Japanese.

(14:55):
They were basically worried thatplayers would get upset seeing
Yoshi hit in the back of the head over and over again, so
they changed the punch sound effect to him saying go and so
he is officially. And it's actually interesting.
If you look at the Sprite work, there's the slight nub that
implies he is pointing. OK, got you.
They thought about it and, you know, Speaking of animal rights

(15:16):
sensitivities, according to thegamer.com, this is also why
the North American release had adifference of the dolphin level.
There is a level in this game where you can hop on the backs
of dolphins. You're kind of like a salmon
running upstream sort of vibe. And in Japan, Yoshi could eat
the dolphins. But since the, you know,

(15:37):
protecting the dolphins was a big thing in the 90s, they
decided to remove that functionality in the North
American release. Cowards.
Who'd win in a fight, Yoshi or Echo?
I think it depends if they're inthe water or not.
Well, canonically Yoshi can eat Echo.
I think we just learned this. Yeah, but canonically though,
Yoshi or Echo can break things with sound waves.

(15:57):
Like that's really powerful. This.
Is. Going to be we're going to
settle on the Discord, all right?
Yeah. Sorry, I was going to make
another joke. Go keep going.
I'm going to. No, I was just going to say what
power? What power would he get?
Would he get set like, 'cause you know, he eats things and he
gets powers and things like. That that's not a joke.
That is a fascinating question. Time travel.

(16:19):
I think it would. Oh, there you go.
There you go. Yeah, we're going to get another
viral echo, the dolphin clip, Mike, that's going to become our
brand. OK, let's next question for
Super Mario World. True or false?
Super Mario World was the best selling stand alone SAES game of
all time. True or false?
Yeah, I'm going to say true justbecause I I want it to be true.

(16:40):
OK, Mike, He's really chewing onit.
I. Because, like, it was Tetris for
the Game Boy, I think. Stop.
Stop talking to Dempsey. You're helping him.
Not what the Game Boy party is on.
I am like true or false I. Think I'm going to go false

(17:00):
because I'm wondering about Mario Kart.
So it is false, but that's not why Super Mario World was the
best selling SNES game accordingto Gizmodo but it was not the
best selling stand alone game because it was packaged with the
system. The best selling stand alone
Super Nintendo game was Street Fighter 2 Turbo it.

(17:21):
Was a pack in OK it? Was a pack in.
Got you on that one. All right, so that puts Mike at
2 and Dempsey at 1:00. We got two more here, and then
we got a tiebreaker. If you want it true or false,
All of the main stages feature remixes of the same musical
track. True or false.
Mike, you're in the lead, so you'll go first.
Repeat that question. Question says true or false.

(17:42):
All of the main stages in Super Mario World feature remixes of
the same musical track. So is it the same song for
pretty much all the main stages and they just modified it or am
I? Trying to fool you, what's a
mainstage mean? So not counting title screen,
overworld credits and Bowser fights.
OK, then I think I'm gonna say false.

(18:03):
OK. Then I think, yeah, I think it's
false. It's actually true, so no points
for either side here. As cited by thegamer.com, the
game's level one song ground BGMis either speed up, slowed down,
or modified in various ways overand over and over again.
With the exception of being, like I said, title screen,
overworld credits, and Bowser fights, the same chord

(18:24):
progression is used in pretty much every level of the game.
Huh. I'm gonna listen for that.
That's interesting. As I didn't believe it at 1st
and I so I wandered around the overworld map hopping into like
Nope, that's the same theme. That's the same thing.
It's crazy that they modify it so much you kind of don't
notice. Even the castle.
The castle, that's the Bowser stages.

(18:45):
So I guess I said that wrong. Anyway, I'm not a perfect man,
Mike. I'm close #5 true or false?
When localizing the game for North America, the Koopalings
were all named after various celebrities.
So Mike still in the lead, so hewill still go first.
True. Okay, Dempsey.
I'm going to do false because I want to win.
This is just a strategic play, not out of out of knowledge.

(19:08):
Well you know what Dempsey, it fragging worked.
Overthinking games my ass. I think you're thinking the
perfect amount here. It is false.
Although a common misconception,this is only true for most of
the mini bosses. We have the koopalings named
after Ludwig von Beethoven, Roy Orbison, Wendy O Williams, Iggy
Pop, Morton Downey junior and Len lemmy kill Mr. But according

(19:30):
to a 2015 interview with Nintendo localizer Davy brooks,
Larry just looked like a Larry. Other fun pop culture references
include the fire breathing Triceratops being named Reznor
after Trent Reznor from 9 Inch Nails.
Wait, wait that. Wait, wait.
Seriously. Yep.
OK, I made I I I may have made ajoke about that while playing

(19:52):
that, but I did not know that that was.
Sure was. It was a tribute to the 9 Inch
Nails, a musician. And Mike, I know you're gonna
freaking love this. Do you recall the name of the
bullet enemies in this game? Are they just bullet bill?
Yeah, Bill. OK, Do you know what they named
the aquatic version? You're gonna love this.

(20:15):
I can't remember. Torpedo Ted.
So it's Bill and Ted. Why not click that?
Isn't that great? Yeah, I thought it was most
excellent. OK, well, so tiebreaker.
OK, first one to blurt it out and if neither of you know I
will start spelling it one letter at a time.
OK, so. Everyone have a ever got good

(20:36):
memory or pen and pencil ready? Yeah, it's.
Good. All right.
The sound effect of Yoshi hatching is a reused asset from
what? Satanic themed NES game?
Satanic themed. OK.
Starts with AD. Doom.
Demon Soul. EDEDEV.

(20:56):
Devil May Cry 5. Devil W, Devil WO.
Devil world devil. World.
Devil World. OK, there we go.
I I do not know what devil worldis.
It is a game where the Yoshi sound effect came from, but
actually the main main protagonist of the game,
Tamagon. I'm showing you a picture of the

(21:17):
box art. It looks like an early version
of Yoshi. That is Yoshi canonically being
Christian. That is a.
That is a cross. That is a Christian cross.
There we go. Yeah, We're going to get some
clicks now, Mike. That's wild.
Congratulations, Dempsey, you'rethe winner of Mario Mythbusters.
So before we get into the joy pros and joy cons of Super Mario

(21:38):
World, what is our history with this game and how far do we each
get? Dempsey, can we start with you?
Yeah, so I OK, so I want to talkabout how I relate to retro
games in general. So I have, I have no love or
nostalgia for retro games. I did not really seriously start

(21:58):
playing video games until I was an adult.
Like actually thinking about video games as an art form.
I had a GameCube. I have a lot of nostalgia for
the game Fire Emblem and Double Dash because those are what I
have on my GameCube. And then the Xbox 360 movie tie
in game to open season and so but.

(22:23):
It drops out like it's a normal thing Oh yeah you know I'm a
super fan of the Xbox gate high end game to open season yes
Dempsey keep going that was an. Amazing third game.
So. But like so we like my but like
at my I don't even think I thinkI stole it from my cousin.

(22:45):
I think I stole my cousin's Ness.
And so I had this is the first game I remember I have conscious
memories playing and and it I soI, I would have it would, I
would have been maybe in the tworeally early, like 2000 or 2001
or something like that. So this would have this game
would have been old by then. So it's like, and but this is

(23:05):
the first game I have conscious memories playing and I like when
I so first of all, this is Marioto me.
Like when I think of Mario prototypical Mario, this is I
don't go to the 3D Mario or likethe older Mario.
This is like what Mario is for me.
Canonically. This is like my prototypical
Mario and I'd I like I think that if this game came out this

(23:30):
year, I think it would be like one of the best games ever made.
Still, I love everything about this game.
I love the colors. I love the feeling of movement.
I love how playful it is. It's very toy like like a
Nintendo. People talk about Nintendo
making toys like they're like electronic toys, and this game
feels like such a good version of toys.

(23:50):
Also, I think if I I think this game would have blown my mind
had I been there when it came out, because the progression of
visuals from Mario Bros, Super Mario Bros one and two, and then
this is like Tella. Like it feels like it feels so
much more rich. I don't know.

(24:12):
And so I, yeah, I just, I've played it several times.
I probably finished it like I definitely played to the credit
like to to finish it probably like 3 or 4 times.
OK so unit 10 did, should I hit 3 or 4?
No, I'll just do it once. Unit 10 did beat this game
before. How many?
Computer yeah I've I've beat this game before and then I've

(24:35):
done like a full play through probably twice and then so this
time I this time I made it to just past the forest.
I love the green in the forest Ilove how Richard feels.
If this feels like what I imagine stepping into a video
game, I would want to feel like as a kid, like it's so it's so

(24:58):
playful and imaginative and the logic is so non sequiturs, like
these little bombs that fall from parachutes and the
centipedes that get angry at youwhen they like every.
There's so many. And the secrets too, Like the
idea where like like because I think with video games, there's
this desire for them to be infinite.

(25:18):
And and this kind of gives you the illusion that there's always
more of this game to discover, especially when you're playing
it for the first time or you come back to it after a long
time. You don't remember the details.
So you fell in love with it likepost 3D era?
Like when you said you had played.
This 100%. Wow, that's and I think that's a
good testament to like how well it's aged.

(25:39):
And I totally agree with you. Like if this game came out
today, it's so solid and so toy like.
Like you said, you can almost reach out and pick up any little
object you're looking at and imagine it like a bobble.
And so and I think, and I think Nintendo like when I see, I've
never been to like the actual Nintendo theme parks or
whatever, but I think they really pull from this game

(26:02):
specifically for a lot of their iconography.
A. 100%. And so like, as far as Mario
iconography goes, this game is still really informing the
vocabulary of how we continue. And I think like Super Mario,
the Wonder, Super Mario Bros Wonder or whatever, like I think
the best thing that that game could have done was kind of

(26:24):
recapture the excellence and joythat people felt playing this
game. Like I think I think this game
sets the standard for fun playful platformers.
Like I said. Yeah, anyways, but I love this
game so much. I like, I have such I Yeah, I
just, I'm a big fan. Super Mario World's great.
Now, Mike, have you had not played it before this episode or

(26:47):
had you? I had.
Clearly played this slightly andI say slightly in that when I
began like the first island you start on, I did and I didn't
know why but I knew a part of meknew to head to the left and up

(27:07):
which is the first of the to getto the yellow.
Switch. Switch Palace.
Switch Palace. There we go.
Got the word switch. That's embarrassing on this
podcast. So I got to that and it was
like, OK, my some part of my brain knows that's a thing I
need to do. And then I continued onward and

(27:29):
I got to maybe part way through the Second World, at which point
it was getting tough and I decided to go check out the
soup, the What's this, Super Mario World, Super Mario Advance
2. Isn't that a yes?
He's referring to the Game Boy port, which we're gonna we're

(27:51):
gonna compare the virtues of that to this late in the
episode. But so Mike, you you switched
versions. How'd it go on that version?
And and I will also add with this because that numbering that
naming is very confusing to me. Is.
I was sufficiently unfamiliar with this game that it wasn't
until doing this that I realizedthis is like I did not know this
is meant to be like a sequel to Super Mario Brothers 3 at all.

(28:15):
Oh yeah, it's like a direct sequel.
Yeah, it apparently is. The man.
Like the manual treats it as that.
And I'm like, I always thought this was a separate franchise.
In the same way that, like, Mario Kart is not a sequel to
Mario Brothers, it's its own thing.
I have always thought this was its own thing.
I'm surprised. Yeah, because it's called a
different thing. So like, I kind of feel like

(28:38):
really this, this isn't on me, this is on them.
There's some weird naming thingshappening.
Which made Super Mario World Super Mario Advance 2 utterly
baffling to me initially. As a title.
Yeah, as a title, because I'm like, how is how is the first of
a thing the 2nd of this other thing?
It is Simon Fancy, the 4th of a thing and the second of a thing.

(28:59):
But how'd you do on the Game Boyversion?
Yeah. On the Game Boy Advance version,
I did a fair bit better, partially because there's a
little bit of difference in how how they handle we'll get to I
So I ended up getting to a pointwhere I was on Chocolate Island
two OK and I played an hour trying to beat Chocolate Island

(29:23):
2 and could never beat that level.
Oh, devastating. It turns out that Chocolate
Island 2 is a level where depending on how many coins you
have when you reach the first pipe means you get a different
second like section to the level.

(29:44):
Didn't know that. Yeah, and it turns out that I
was getting very good at taking a route to get to that next
level and the next level, the next section was really hard.
Yeah. It turns out that if I had Don
Slower made a point to get everycoin, I ended up on a much
easier 1 and I only found this out looking it up much later and

(30:07):
then went back and was able to beat that level in like 2 tries
which was incredibly frustrating.
That's so funny. That level was going to be a
very big deal breaker. Now, thankfully, because I was
streaming this after an hour of that chat pointed out to me that
like, because I'm like, I think this is going to be the last
level I see because I just I can't get past this because it's

(30:29):
I'm having to do all this platforming on angles and it's
excruciating. And Chad's like, well, you know,
there's another option, right? And I'm like, no, I don't know,
there's another option. Do go on.
And then I was introduced to theStar Rd.
Oh yes, Star Rd. And was told that like if you go

(30:50):
to this level and to two one, I think you're somewhere in world
2. Like this is the head for this.
You can get to the Star Rd. I got to the Star Rd.
I worked my way around, I got toBowser's Castle, and then I
spent 2 1/2 hours trying to beatBowser's Castle, which was an
improvement on an hour into Chocolate Island 2.

(31:13):
And finally, I'm like, I this islate.
I intended to play for two hoursand I was approaching 6 hours.
I'm like I am calling this at six hours.
Yeah. At five hours and 56 minutes
into that stream, I finally freaking beat Bowser.
So you nintended beat this game?Yes.

(31:34):
How many computer? It was a long, long run.
If it was not for actually Dez, who's in the discord, like
getting me onto the Star Star Road to begin with, that would
not have happened. Wow.
So I'm super pleased to have actually managed to get to that.

(31:55):
Yeah, it's there's some really challenging parts and I love
that chat was there for you in alittle community here, getting
your back. That's what it's all about.
So I first played this game at Circuit City when I was a wee
lad. Right, Mike?
Remember Circuit City? I don't know if Dempsey probably
doesn't. Might have learned about it in
history. Yeah, exactly.
So Mike knows this. My family, we were a Sega

(32:16):
household, right? And as much as I believe Sonic
is still the superior franchise,the giant bonsai bills, the
giant bullet enemies in level 1 of this game made me so jealous
as a kid because you're Sega kid, you can't play this game.
But they seemed impossibly largeto me.
Like that seems so intimidating that it's like, I don't know,
like a third of the screen perhaps.

(32:39):
And and then you can kill them by just hopping on them.
That felt so cartoonish and so playful and so fun, right?
I like Dempsey said, felt toy like to me and so I never got
around to actually playing this game until prepping for this
episode. But I am proud to tell all of
you and John Ford Discord that without using any rewinding or
safe states, I Nintend did beat the Game Boy Advance port of

(33:02):
this game. How many computer?
And then I nintended beat it a second time on the SNES version,
also using the star Rd. Mike I.
I won't play the sound effect again though, because we're each
getting 1 today. Well, I'm proud of us guys.
We've all beaten Super Mario World.
That's not totally easy. So Dempsey, you kind of touched
on a little bit already, but canyou kind of kick us off other

(33:23):
discussion of the joy pros of this game other than it's like
toy, like nature and you know, the the kind of world aspect of
it? What makes this so good?
So I think one of the things that for me really impacted me
is the the challenge of it. This is this is a hard game in
some parts. And for me, there is something
so fun about just throwing myself against the wall until

(33:48):
I'm brain dead, until like I feel like my hands mold to the
controller and the character is an extension of my will.
And I and I and I did not get that plane this time because I
did use the rewind feature, which makes made it really fun
because it felt like a tour. It felt like the rewound feature

(34:10):
gave me the tools to kind of like breeze through these
places. I already have memories of still
feeling the feeling the game, feeling the control, but not
necessarily committing myself tothe time commitment I like.
But yeah, I think for me, that'sone of the things that I love
about it, about this game specifically is I think I I

(34:31):
think the balance of challenge lends itself to almost, almost
like a meditative state of OK, if I die, I'm not going to care
in in such a, in such a playful way.
Also. So go going back to like how I
think the desire for video gamesto feel infinite, like you check

(34:53):
every pipe when you go through the first time in this game,
because there's like the opportunity that, that you
might, that something might be there and, and you're rewarded
for that enough to where you continue the effort of
exploration consistently. And I think like not skipping
like, like when you get your Cape, for example, I would go

(35:15):
back to levels and fly up to seeif there's anything up there
that that I, I would not have access to without the Cape and
things like that. And so I, I, I also think the,
the exploration and how it feedsexploration is really fun.
And like, if like the star Rd. is a really good example of like
more exploration. Like if someone went into this,

(35:37):
I don't know, I feel like if someone went into this not
knowing that Star World was a thing, that would be like a
genuine surprise that there's like this whole alternate way to
navigate the game, the, and likethe special levels and things
like that. I feel like that really adds to
to feeling like you're, you're plumbing the depths of this

(35:58):
world. 100% agree. Yeah.
Yeah. I love that you brought up the
challenge of it, because when I started playing the game for
this episode, there was a good 45 minutes to an hour of my
first run through where I was kind of just, I don't know, this
is fine, but this is Chigoro Miyamoto's favorite Mario game.
This, some people say, is the pinnacle, and I couldn't figure

(36:21):
out why I wasn't clicking with the game.
And then I asked a question thathonestly, I should ask more
often, which is, what if I'm theproblem?
What if rewinding is ruining thefun of this?
And it totally was, because as you said, the challenge is
perfect to the point that I am always making a little bit of
progress. Every obstacle feels

(36:43):
surmountable, and then there's all these little tricks you can
discover to get around it. So once I stopped cheating I
realize this is like an all timer.
This game is so good because that pitch perfect difficulty is
a very difficult thing to do in one level, let alone 96 levels.
Like it's, it's so well tuned. Yeah, and I think it it builds

(37:07):
and Nintendo is famous for doingthis, but this is very
emblematic of the Nintendo approach.
But if, if builds the mechanicalvocabulary so seamlessly to
where it's constantly tutorializing you to how it's
going to approach things in the future, whether that's like, you
know, getting so many flying enemies on the screen where it

(37:27):
feels insurmountable. But because you've had access to
them prior, you could, you know,if it feels like a like if you
were to drop in like the middle of the game or whatever, it
would be horrendous. But because of the gradual I, I
feel like it does a really good job of scaffolding your
experience to give you context into what to expect later.

(37:48):
That's like a good Lesson plan, right?
Like you got a scaffold, you gotto give kids contact.
Look at you over thinking games.I see you.
I see what you're doing there. I think at this point it's worth
managing for one one thing in terms of the pros, why I like
the Game Boy Advance version more.
That's that point of OK, you keep having as the difficulty

(38:08):
hits you keep you're kind of theaccepting of like I'm going to
die, but I'm keep getting a bit further with what I'm trying to
get through. And one thing that was different
between the two, and it's why I stuck with it for the Game Boy
Advanced version was in the original game, you say are able
to save it after like castles and like the ghost houses on the

(38:33):
Game Boy Advanced version, you can save after any level.
And so instead of having the thing that I don't have various
games depending on sort of how they checkpoint things is there
are have been a chunk games we play where it's like, OK,
there's a hard bit, but it takesme so much effort to get back to

(38:55):
the hard bit and then I don't learn any.
You know, if I die quickly, I didn't have time to learn
anything, which is particularly true in this, where, you know,
one hit and Mario's dead. So there's this thing where I'm
not spending my time learning the thing, I'm spending my time
getting back to it. Yeah, I.
Felt, yeah, I'm saying I felt that with the Super Nintendo

(39:16):
version a bit more, and the Super Mario World really let me
focus on the things that I was having difficulty with.
Well, so you know, that's because the Game Boy Advance was
AA battery powered. And so, you know, Mommy, my Game
Boy is dying. Do you have any batteries?
No, you got to let a kid save because if they lose a lot of
progress because of a dead AA battery, they're going to not

(39:37):
want to keep playing. But Mike, I'm going to jump in
there and I guess let's just do it.
Let's just do our Nintendis or that because you know, we were
going to compare this to the Game Boy Advance version.
And I totally agree with Dempsey.
Dempsey said before we started recording that the Game Boy
advanced washed out color palette of a bummer because it's
so sharp on the Super Nintendo. I did find it being softer on

(39:58):
the eyes. I kind of liked it.
Like I don't know if I liked it more, but I didn't hate it.
But but Mike, it's I so I officially tested this and I
have a video I'll put in the YouTube version just to show
that I'm right. It's not just that you can say
between every level. If you game over, you restart at
the mid level checkpoint you reached.

(40:19):
That's huge. So suddenly, I don't know,
Dempsey, have you played Celeste?
That's one of my favorite games.For me, yes.
I love that game so much. What's wonderful about Celeste
is that it's this crazy platforming challenge, but when
you fail, you're just taken backto the start of that jump.
And so you you try again and again and again.
And like Dempsey said, there's something satisfying about

(40:40):
throwing your face up against the challenge and then the
catharsis of when you finally get it.
So on the Game Boy Advance, it felt more like Celeste, where I
wasn't even having to play the beginnings of levels after a
game over. Not, not, not.
I was dead. A game over to hit continue,
went back to the level, and I'm already 50% of the way through
it. I'm not putting this game down.
I am going to beat this whole freaking game.

(41:02):
And I intended so. Yeah.
And also just so many little layers of secrets.
Mike, did you discover any of that organically while playing
any of the Yoshi Secrets or StarWar Star Rd.
Was there anything you found without the help of chat?
I think some some stuff I don't have, I don't have particulars.
Like I and I definitely ended upat like exits that were not the

(41:23):
right exits at various not not the exits that I needed.
Like, you know, you found a different exit.
Go ahead, go see what happens here.
Yeah, I think like I didn't really interact with the Yoshi
stuff until the star Rd. things and that was a little bit the
manual mentions that like you can feed the baby Yoshi's to get
them to be a full Yoshi. And so like some of that stuff,

(41:45):
like I knew what was going on a bit.
I feel like the closest thing I had to to a figuring something
out wasn't directly gameplay. It was the realization that also
I think the Gameboy Advance allows is you can pause the game
on a level you've already beatenand just go back to the map,
which is super useful if you're like, I need a power up or I'm

(42:08):
going to die on this level. Now I can pause and go back and
then come back in. Sure, and they added the status
screen. If you hit select on any
overworld map level, it'll tell you exactly how many dinosaur
coins you've found, how many exits you've found.
It gives you basically a checklist to 100% of the game.

(42:30):
So Dempsey, you've played this game multiple times.
How do you kind of do your run? Do you use Star Road and, you
know, skip major parts of the game or do you try to play it
proper? I just vibe it out.
I have no, there's only one timeI did it systematically and I
followed a guide to make sure I got every single exit and things
like that because I didn't want to experience all of it, so I

(42:52):
did. I did follow a guide once, but
now I just kind of, yeah. Now when I go, when I hop back
into it, I just kind of vibe it out.
I'll remember like specific things and I'll, you know, and
I'll go, OK, this pipe, I like, remember this pipe and things
like that. But I'm not like I, I'm not like

(43:12):
speed running it or like trying to accomplish anything.
So the the need for a systemization is is less so for
me. I do remember that I think the
the second and third Switch palaces were something that
actually the game made a commentabout, hey, what?
Hey, have you seen those? I'm like, I should go figure out
where those are now. And what's really neat about the

(43:34):
switch palaces, that's what Mike's referring to, like at 3
different points in the overall maps, you can find these things
that will for create new for well, there's yellow, blue-green
and red. Yeah.
Okay, SO4 switch the colors of the Mario world, the title
screen, there you go, everythingall figured out.
But anyway, so they will make new platforms appear so you can

(43:58):
access different pathways through the levels, including
getting to special world, which is a hidden world within a
hidden world. If you make it to the end of
star road and have hit all the switch palaces, you can access
these like Kaizo level challenging levels called
special, each one named after a different retro synonym for the
word special, which includes gnarly, tubular, way, cool,

(44:20):
awesome, groovy, mondo, outrageous and funky.
But I loved these because a totally optional, but they're as
like a bragging rights thing. So Dempsey, so how say you kind
of vibe the game out, but like, do you consider yourself good at
it because you were pretty competitive in the versus mode

(44:41):
we tried. No, I don't think I'm good at
this game at all. It takes me forever.
It takes No, I I don't think I'mvery good at this game.
I'm not going to platformers. I'm just persistent at
platformers. I I do like doing the special
challenges. I might get through like the
first two and be like, OK, this is this is a lot and then go
back to the rest of the game. Yeah, I, I part of the switches

(45:06):
that I think are really fun is that they are also difficulty
mechanisms to control the level of difficulty.
Because not only do they do switching them give you access
to different things, but they also just fill in the gaps on,
on some particularly hard places.
And so if you are having a lot of trouble, it, it kind of helps

(45:29):
to be to explore a little more and find them and, and, and so
that's that, that's another thing that I think is, is
really, I don't know elegance about the way the game let's the
player gets a kind of, I, I usually don't hit the switches,
I guess at least like the first time, like you can hit the
switches earlier. But then if I want to go

(45:50):
somewhere that needs to switches, I'll go back to that
switches. But I think there's something
about the original challenge that's really satisfying.
But no, I, I I I think the switches are a really elegant
solution for both difficulty andalso wonder and surprise through
exploration. I.
Think it was actually interesting to realize when I
got to Bowser's Castle that in the weird with one of the parts

(46:11):
of Bowser's Castle I'm like, I think the switches are making
this easier now. Yeah.
Yeah, and it was a cool realization, like what's going
on? There's like, oh, because if
those blocks weren't there, I think it's basically like the
Bowser statues that that shoot fire and it's they're up on.
There's two of them that are up on, Yep, those blocks.
I'm like, oh, because I've done that.

(46:32):
This is a much easier thing to get through now.
Yeah, and that's a neat feeling.Like I think it's so clever that
this kind of feels like a world because there's all these little
touches and ways you can influence it and little back
alleys to explore. And it's just one of the more
expansive 2D platforming games. And it's neat that I didn't

(46:53):
discover really much of this at all on my first run through.
It was on my second run through that I started delving in, and I
think that's the perfect way to approach game Secrets is like
really fulfilling if you want topursue them, but if you don't,
it holds up fine on its own too.Can we talk a little bit about
the kind of characters? Because like, I mean, Yoshi,
Mike mentioned it briefly, but there's a lot of depth to the

(47:14):
Yoshi character. Depending on the Koopa that
Yoshi swallows, they can spit fire or it can sprout wings and
fly. And then Mike said you can find
hidden levels with baby Yoshi's,and if you feed them enough
enemies, they'll grow into, you know, adult Yoshi's.
Did you? Did Mike?
Did you find any of the alternate colors?
You can get different color Yoshi's throughout the game.

(47:36):
Yeah, cuz you see those on the when only when I did the star
Rd. stuff did I see them. Yeah.
Which one of them's a total jerkand turns out if if it hates a
star that you're trying to get, it immediately becomes Yoshi.
Wait, the baby becomes Yoshi immediately from a star?
Yep, and that is so clever. And you don't get the star.

(47:57):
Yeah, but you get a full Yoshi. I didn't want a full Yoshi.
In fact, I I wanted a star and to be holding a Yoshi because
when you're holding something you swim much faster.
Yeah, yeah. It's like a little, almost a
little handheld jet ski. So I got the enemies on the
screen here. I I grabbed it from the credit
sequence, which names all of them and shells all of them.
Dempsey, are there any enemies that you like, really love, or

(48:18):
really hate? I think the I I like the
dinosaurs just because they feellike the most toys to me.
The Rex, I guess I I really likethose designs.
Also that lot. Blarg.
Blarg looks like he does not belong.
Blarg looks like he's surprised that he's there.
I think, yeah, Blarg is. So every time I play Blarg, I'm

(48:40):
like, this feels like a mistake.I don't know.
He's a very he's a very funny character design.
What what Dempsey's referring tois that there is an enemy in the
lava levels that you cannot hurtand it can't get out of the
it's, it's like a shark essentially.
It's swimming around in the lavaand it'll kind of lunge at you.
But the art style, like, like hesaid, this is when they figured
out the Mario aesthetic. But he does not belong in the

(49:01):
Mario aesthetic. No, he looks so out of place.
Yeah, it's almost something out of like early Dream works or
something. It's really wacky.
Mike, do you have any strong feelings about the enemies?
I hate the Dino torches. Oh, the little fire breathing
guys. And that's partially because
they're one of the enemies that can go up walls and stuff and

(49:23):
move around fairly erratically, and also because they that is
the first part of the level thatI played repeatedly for an hour
and couldn't beat. So like, I got very fed up with
them. I also don't like RIP Van Fish.
The sleepy fish. If they stayed sleepy I'd be OK

(49:43):
with it. It's when they stop being sleepy
I have a problem. Yeah.
I do have a question here, whichis I'm wondering how many of the
of I think a handful of these are all ones that I recognize
from stuff like Mario Party, andI'm wondering if this was if
they'd been in previous things or if this was their first
appearance. Like I'm looking at both.

(50:04):
I think Wiggler and Monty Mole and Pokey were all ones there.
Like these are all familiar fromlike Mario Party things.
To me, I know that some of thesewere Mario 3 editions, so I'll
be honest, I'm not sure. But like this, this feels like
the fully realized version of these characters.
I think the one that I kind of have a lot of memories about is

(50:25):
the charge and chucks the football players because the
game is really good about putting them in like kind of
stressful or silly situations. So like there's points where
he's like literally the goalkeeper and he's right there
before the end of the level jumping to block you because
you're essentially the football,right?
That's just, that's just nice theming.
And there's even a hilarious moment where you find one
underwater and he can't swim. So he's just ineffectually

(50:48):
drowning forever. And I'm like, I'll charge.
And Chuck, how'd you get down here?
I've always had a fantasy of. OK, tell me, Dempsey, what's
going on here? Of Charge and Chuck and Mario
Kart. I think he would be such a fun.
I I think he would be It's so I don't know.
I have some weird affection for charging Chuck.
I think I want to see charging Chuck more places that.

(51:10):
'D be dope. He's such a funny character.
Yeah, sorry. That just clicked now is also a
Mario party 1 is where the charging chucks run across and
you have to OK, I I this is I want to make this clear to
Dempsey. We don't normally have this much
punctuation talk on our shows, but.
The Mike's just feeling a littlefrisky tonight.
I. Find it weird that Boo buddies

(51:34):
Boo is in quote quotes. The big Boo Boo is in quotes.
The fishing Boo is not. OK, yeah, that's right.
Yep, the one. Here we go.
We cracked the code. Well, what's the code?
It's over thinking games. This is right on, right on
brand. Yeah, that's hilarious.
Yeah, that's very funny. How about the boss fights?

(51:56):
I love the boss fights in this game.
I think they're really clever. You know, you got the
Koopalings. I don't really F with the
Koopalings. Like they're fine.
They're more than just like a puzzle, just a couple of hits.
But this game has some big boss fights.
There's Reznor, where it's the fire breathing triceratops on a
like Ferris wheel and you have to hit kill them by doing the

(52:19):
Air Mario arcade mechanic of running underneath their
platform, jumping up, hitting itfrom below, they fly off.
But what's genius about this is that once you've destroyed two
of the Triceratops, the floor ofthe level burns up, and now you
have to jump on the Ferris wheelin order to not die.
So now it's a great way of adding tension.

(52:40):
And like Dempsey said, you know,it teaches you the mechanics of
the boss fight, and then it addsa layer of complexity.
Yeah, to make it feel really satisfying when you pull it off.
And and then, like, I think the Bowser fight too, right?
It's you're using the techniquesthat you've learned.
You're kicking stuff up into theair until Bowser flies

(53:01):
underneath it, but then you're also having to manage like the
Mecca Koopalings and Peach is throwing you power ups whenever
can she can get a moment. So it's like it felt very good
story building and it felt like good boss mechanics.
Did you guys like the bosses? Yeah, I think, I think all the
bosses are, they're not confusing, which is my least
favorite thing in a boss. They're all very clear that they

(53:21):
teach you almost instantaneouslywhat you have to do.
And so even the first time goingin, the learning is very smooth,
I found. And yeah, I think they're,
they're very fun and, and playful.
I have a lot of nostalgia for the Bowser boss fight.
I think it's, I think it's a classic.
Like when I think of like iconicvideo game boss fights, that's

(53:43):
one that comes to mind for me. And it's it's neat the mechanics
of the of the fight because Bowser is flying above you and
so he has his propeller. So you can't jump into his
propeller. So you need to jump, but not,
you can't jump high if you jump low, you know, And it's like
this whole game you've been, you've been honing your jumping
abilities. Let's really put it to the test
by giving you this narrow windowof safety to jump over the

(54:06):
enemies he's spawning, but not get hit by a propeller from
above. I thought it was neat.
Mike, any thoughts on the bosses?
I. Found what counted as a hit or
not, particularly in the Bowser fight, to be a frustrating
experience. Yeah.
Cuz a lot of things are, I'm like, I don't know.
Or just more broadly, I feel like somehow when I needed to

(54:29):
interact with something, it was not very generous, but if I
wanted something not to interactwith me, it was a lot more
liberal on what counted as a hit.
The worst thing I did get killedholding a key trying to reach a
lock because it counted me as having collided with the thing
on the other side of the lock. And I'm like.

(54:50):
Oh, OK. How did I die from the thing
further away than the thing I need to reach to leave this
level? Right, it broke, wrinkled the
brain. Yeah.
And so like dealing with like the mecha koopas and trying to
get them hit and just having his, I'm like, I don't know why
that wasn't a hit. I am at least slightly glad that
I, I had one bit of strategy on that boss fight that when I

(55:14):
eventually came up with it, I was very pleased with, which was
cuz he'll throw down to Mecca Koopas and the next time it
comes around, he will sort of top it back up to 2.
And so I would use one and then deliberately wait until he would
throw down a second one. Right.
So that when I would move on to phase two, I already had a Mecca

(55:34):
Cooper to hit him with. Smart.
Yeah. It's like a little resource
management puzzle that you kind of figured out there that's.
Fun. I had that one bit going going
for me and it slightly worked tolike relatively early on I made
it to. I was one hit away from beating
from beating them and then I spent the next like 2 hours
trying to do it again. Well, I mean, and so if I can

(55:56):
just talk about the Big Boo fight because this is an
optional boss, but it's really neat because it's kind of a
similar mechanic. You are grabbing blocks and
kicking them up into Big Boo while you're having to avoid 2
little boos and you know, kind of keep your eye on them or off
them or forget what the mechanicis.
But since you're grabbing block from the floor, you can
accidentally dig yourself into like a little Gray wave or just

(56:17):
fall into a bottomless pit belowyou.
It never really happened becauseit's not that hard to aim.
But I love the idea of I'm usingthe platform I'm on as my
weapon. So I better I I better choose my
moment carefully. It's neat.
It's it's like that's just that's chef kiss game design.
It's so pure, It's so good. And after each boss, you get
like a funny cutscene. They destroy the castle in

(56:40):
increasingly comical ways. You guys remember this?
Yeah. Yeah, so like, yo, Yoshi will or
sorry, Luigi or Mario will like blow up the castle or punt it
away like a football or my favorite, they like erase it
with like a window rusher brush.Sure, which kind of implies
they're sort of godly in a way. So, you know, joy cons, right?

(57:01):
Dempsey would want to leave the zoom or something because you
said there's nothing you can criticize about this game.
Is there? Nothing you don't like about it?
Literally, it's perfect to you. So here.
So this is, I'm going to get annoying.
So this is sometimes an experience, an artistic
experience transcends my abilityto criticize it well, where it
feels like criticizing it is like criticizing a friend.

(57:24):
Like, like there's something about the experience as a whole
where it's a lot easier for me to talk about how it makes me
feel than it is to analyze like any kind of objective opinion on
it. And like, so like there, there's
a couple games like outer Wilds is a game like that where I find
it impossible to think critically about that game in a,

(57:46):
in a, in a like a criticism way.And this is one of those games
where like I understand that like the difficulty thing.
So like even going back to the difficulty, I think you're
right. I think saving, I think there is
a lot of value in being able to save at the, at the, at each
stage to where you don't have togo all the way back to the last

(58:07):
castle or the last haunted houseor whatever.
I play and since I was a little kid, I've, I've played this like
I play Demon Souls where you go farm a bunch and then you, and
then you tried it, you go farm abunch of lives and then you
tried it. And then it's like you, I get up
to like 80 lives or whatever. And then I, and I think that's,

(58:27):
I think I have been able to romanticize that process in my
head, but like, I, I don't thinkthat necessarily makes it a good
solution to a game. But like my emotional experience
has a lot of attachment to, to the process of getting low on
lives, going back to the beginning, farming lives.
And then, and that's part of therhythm in which I play the game,
but that doesn't mean it's, it'sa good experience.

(58:50):
So in that way. And that's, I think that's what
I mean when I say this is a really difficult game for me to
look at critically because I think I've gotten used to a lot
of the flaws to where those are a part of the romantic
experience for me of playing this game.
That's fair. I says games are really special
and especially nostalgic in different ways.
And so, you know, it's like witha game that's good, it's like,

(59:12):
are you going to criticize childhood?
You know, like, it's almost like, right?
Yeah, it's I'm, I'm very excitedto hear you guys talk because
you guys don't have that nostalgia for it.
And so and so I mean, you guys are playing this like as if it
like maybe like it's as if like it's a 2D platform or like a
really well reviewed indie game or whatever.
Like kind of that that level of like it's not pushing technology

(59:33):
forwards anymore. It doesn't have this like ground
breaking art style necessarily. That would have been like insane
to see for the first time. It's like the way you guys are
are looking at it. I think I'm very fascinated to
hear you guys talk about it, actually.
Thank you, I I would hope so. That's the whole premise of this
anyway. Mike, any joy cons for you on

(59:53):
Super Mario World? I think aside from some of the
bits already covered, I think I don't like how it handles power
ups really OK. And what I mean by that is I
think they're often very critical.
However, they are often not present within the levels where

(01:00:15):
one needs them. Yeah, and it's you gotta go
farm. Yeah.
Yeah. And it kind of turns into this
thing where it's like I am on like, like we're like 7.
And like the spot that I know I can get this is world 2.
This is not efficient. And I kind of feel like it's a
situation where if there was something in there that was even

(01:00:37):
just like, OK, I go back to the start of this world.
There's an easy ish way to do this.
Sure. Just so that I'm not having to
do this massive trap, you know, this massive go all the way
across, across world map to the spot that I know works.
Yeah, and that problem gets, I would say, multiplied when
you're looking for secrets intentionally and things like
that, because a lot of times reaching the secrets will

(01:00:59):
require elements that you cannotfind, sometimes even on the
island. But all that's very rare.
But yeah, the definitely not in that level.
So yeah, I I completely agree with you.
Yeah. And then I think kind of, and I
think Yoshi falls into that samecategory, especially because I
don't know why it is, I feel like Yoshi, right.
I mean, I feel like there's something sinister about the

(01:01:20):
Mario Yoshi relationship in thison the basis that Yoshi, when
you get hit and you are no longer on Yoshi, Yoshi outruns
you, moves way faster in in the attempt to get away.
And I'm like that feel this feels like Yoshi's making an
escape where even death is preferable because Yoshi will

(01:01:43):
run right off the edge. And when you have levels where
it's like, OK, this is a Yoshi platforming level, but I can't
get Yoshi here. I have to go get Yoshi, come
back, get hit once Yoshi runs off the platform that is 3
Yoshai wide, Sure. And then I have to do this
again. And I'm like Yoshai, the plural

(01:02:04):
of Yoshi. Yeah, and it's just like this.
It is very frustrating. Like why can't even if just if I
got hit and Yoshi just went intointo idling mode like when you
jump off Yoshi. Sure.
Or didn't drop off, you know, didn't run off edges.
Sure. I OK, so I do think there is
something really fantastic aboutthe frantic nature of like

(01:02:30):
specifically on the Aleutian Island, this happens a lot or
not the Aleutian Island, but in the Illusion forest, because
there's levels with a whole bunch of enemies that you have
to navigate and you'll get hit by Yoshi and there's just a
bunch of things on screen and you're looking for this fucking
dinosaur. Sorry.
Anyways, but but yeah, I think, I think I no, I think you're

(01:02:51):
right. I think, I think the, the fact
that Yoshi can outrun you and it's very tedious.
I, I do think it, it can add some freneticism that I think
really helps the chaotic feel. I think good or bad, it does
make the entire experience a lotmore chaotic.

(01:03:12):
It it definitely worked on areasthat had long, you know, when it
wasn't narrow platforms. I.
Fully agree with you. Like that was the part where
it's like if I'm hit you actually will run off the edge
immediately. Sure.
Yeah, Yeah, that makes sense. So let me give some JMO lure to
our listeners here. JMO lure to our listeners here.

(01:03:33):
That's a tough sentence to say. I got Jackie for like
Valentine's Day a couple years ago, a horseback ride up through
the mountains to go see the ocean, right?
And very narrow pathways. And on the trail, we are like 1.
There's only enough, you know, Mike mentions 3, Yoshai wide.
Notice this trail we were on wasone horse wide.

(01:03:53):
And the horse that Jackie was ongot spooked, reared up and
turned around and ran directly at us, almost knocking all of us
off the Cliff. And Jackie had this like near
death experience. And I know it's kind of dark.
She's fine, everybody. But the feeling of, like you
said, the freneticism of Yoshi'sbeen hit and now Yoshi's running

(01:04:14):
away and there's, there's, there's bottomless pits and
there's enemies. And also you are vulnerable
without Yoshi because Yoshi's like a meat shield.
As long as you have Yoshi, you can get hit once from anything.
You're not dying. So I get the frustration.
But you know, I, in my research,I learned that Shigeru Miyamoto
was an avid horseback rider and that inspired a lot of the Yoshi

(01:04:35):
gameplay. I think that he knew what it
felt like to try and calm down your horse in a vulnerable
situation. I think it nails that perfectly.
One other Yoshi related thing I just want to note just cuz I
don't know where it was put thisin, I find it both somehow weird
and makes sense that at least like in like the credits Peach

(01:04:56):
rides Yoshi side saddle. Wait, what am I missing here?
Is she keeping it classy or something?
Yeah, it's just like it's one ofthese things where it's like I
didn't really think about how would Peach ride something, but
yeah, side saddle would be correct, I guess.
That's so fun. I never, but yeah, that's

(01:05:17):
because she's not. She's not going to open her
legs. She's not a working class girl.
She's royalty. That's so funny.
And it's a small animation, likeif they had animate made that in
a way that didn't do that, like no one would notice, no one
would have noticed then that would be a thing now.
But. That's hilarious.
I love that you brought that up.Is it a dress?

(01:05:37):
Yep. Keeping it classy.
I got to respect it. So let me know if I'm missing
something here because my cons are all very nitpicky.
But you know, Dempsey said. This is a perfect game and I
want to challenge it. The plot of the game were on
Dinosaur Island, right? But for some reason most of the
levels have food theme names like Cheese Bridge, Doughnut
Plains, Vanilla Dome, Soda Lake,Hooky Mountain.

(01:06:01):
Not a single scrap of food anywhere in the game, not even
in the background. Not the enemies.
It's all just an Eric Mario theming.
Am I missing something? What's with the food names?
I have no idea, I've always wondered that.
OK. I mean, to the dinosaurs, you
are food, I guess. Well, but still it doesn't
really. Oh, no, he's no, no.
You got something? I thought you had something
there. You know I didn't.

(01:06:22):
I thought. I thought you'd think I did.
Mario in general really likes the food theme.
Things I know like in Double Dash has a bunch of food theme
like battle things like battle arenas or whatever.
But yeah, no, I agree. I don't I don't know why it's
there's not prehistoric names associated with the levels and
it's like Chocolate Island. Right.

(01:06:44):
Even though it doesn't look chocolate.
Sure, Yeah, just weird. It it's not bad, it's just
weird. I what I do wonder this is this
is giving me something to Google.
I wonder if that's a direct translation or if they just
wanted to name it in offensive English words.
I don't. Know oh OK OK so like no chance
of misunderstanding anything. Yeah, that's, that's

(01:07:06):
interesting. Leave a comment if anyone knows
what the food names are all about in Super Mario World.
Or if you have good ways to misinterpret those.
There you go. Let's not invite that Mike.
I'm looking over the list again.I'm like, I don't know about
cheese bridge anymore. But like also like some of the
mechanics felt a little weird. Like it's kind of strange to me

(01:07:27):
how many different ways there are to fly in this game.
Cuz like Yoshi can get wings andthen the Cape can fly and you
can get a weird pee balloon. But like I was, I think it's
most bugged by the power that Yoshi gets from the yellow koopa
shells because it lets him do a stomp attack that like will
create this little shockwave. But the shockwave only goes a
couple of inches in front of him.

(01:07:48):
So it's it's easier to just landon the enemy, which you could
always do. I don't know.
Am I missing something with thatpower up?
Do you guys ever use it? No, the yellow is the most.
Yeah, that's the worst, Yoshi, Ithink.
Yeah. Yeah, I did find the blue Yoshi
with the wings. That was kind of fun though.
Yeah, I my my favorite is a blueissue.
It goes I have a list. It goes blue-green, red, yellow,

(01:08:10):
blue. Green, red, yellow.
I would have thought red would be more than green because
they're like isn't green just generic?
Yeah, but I like that it's like the classic.
Classic. Yeah, I, I, I feel that.
The flying stuff also I did findand I I think I I think I was
just brownly told I was wrong, but I found the Cape somewhat
frustrating. It can be.

(01:08:32):
And I think it's because if it was purely like a active ability
thing of like, OK, I can, you know, keep hitting jump and I
will fly fine. But the inability to fall down
at like normal speed, it was really frustrating, especially
when things are like this is timed.
But now I have a Cape and now the timing is no longer working.

(01:08:54):
Yeah. And the annoying part about that
is, is that there's some elementof you think it should feel
safer because you're falling slower, but it messes up how he
moves in general. And so you can miss time jumps
in a way that feel. Yeah, I I think the I I 100%
agree with. You.
Yeah. And granted, I think there may
be one of these things where like it makes it more difficult

(01:09:15):
until you get is sufficiently good and then it becomes much
better. Cuz I've watched I watched an
all castle race between 3 peopleand saw what they did with the
capes and we're like going through levels that you are not
supposed to be able to go through that way.
I think like one of the castle things they just fly through and
skip like a auto scroll and it was like.

(01:09:37):
They broke the game, essentially.
I wouldn't quite say it broke the game because it was, it was,
it was a difficult move and I'm like, OK, yeah, I guess if I
could, if I could do that, I could see the advantage here
instead of being stuck to a slowmoving platform.
Yeah. But I kind of felt I was in this
gulf where I didn't have A and because it disappears quickly
and often you don't get it back easily.

(01:10:00):
Like I didn't really have a goodhandle on what it's capabilities
were. Sure, it's capable.
I, I remember there's a trainingsection.
I remember as a kid spending a ton of time in trying to teach
myself how to use the Cape. Yeah, I, I completely agree that
the space with the, where it hasthe tall tubes or whatever, and

(01:10:21):
then there's a yeah. And then there's a bunch of
coins up top. And I remember as a kid spending
hours trying to figure out like,OK, this is how this is how the
Cape works. So yeah, I, I, I agree with
that. I also don't get why it doesn't
work on Mechacupus. So a Cape doesn't do anything to
them. No.
Why does that bother you? They're they're mechanic guys.

(01:10:42):
They can't use a magical object.It bothers me because or because
it's like I one of the things inbeating the boss I stumbled into
eventually is since the way Bowser's Castle is, is like, you
have the first, you select one of four rooms and then you
select one, and then you have another set of four rooms to
select. Yeah.
And so the one that I was doing for the first one, so I think I

(01:11:04):
tried them all and the one whereI'm like, OK, this is the one
that I had the best shot of getting through is basically a
maze with Mecca Koopas in it that you have to work through.
And you can get a feather and one up in that level.
Yeah, and I stumbled on both of those and honestly would have
given up if I hadn't ran into that feather accident by
overshooting something. And it was like, oh.

(01:11:25):
Feather. It's huge.
Yeah, it's like, OK, this change, this changes everything.
And then immediately ran up, youknow, went up, jumped and then
drifted down and then get in thespot where, like, by the time I
drifted down, the Mecca Koopa down there had drift, moved,
gone over to where I need to exit.
And then I had to deal with this, lead it back away because
I can't get rid of this stupid II don't like Mecca koopas.

(01:11:46):
I misunderstood what you meant though, because I thought you
meant how come the Mecca Koopa can't put on the Cape and fly
around like the other Koopas can.
You meant how come the spin attack does not hurt them?
Yes. Gotcha.
Yeah, I did not consider that asan interpretation.
Yeah, no, that's what I meant. And so I kept reaching Bowser
with that. It's like, this is almost like I

(01:12:07):
this handles rougher for me. And I'm like, I bet if I knew
how I could breeze through this through the final fight because
I have the ability to fly, but Idon't know how to use it well
enough for that. I believe they set the Bowser
arena to be small enough that you can't take off.
I don't think you can get a proper running start.
Correct me if I'm wrong anybody,but I'm pretty sure you can't.

(01:12:28):
In any case, it was like if I could just hit the Mecca coupas
with it, this would be great. Though if I'm actually.
That does remind me a thing thatfrustrates me is the ability to
pick things up. At least with that is the same
as running. Yeah.
And OK, especially with those, the number of times where it's
like I'd go to pick it up and because their programming would

(01:12:51):
keep trying to come at you if you had one knocked out, the
other mecha coupa's right next to it.
And the number of times I'd pickone up and immediately just hit
the other one and lose both of them, like, God Dang it, I have
to go through. I have to go through another
cycle and get more of those. Dempsey, can I ask you a
question about the controls? Sure.
Because one of my biggest joy cons is on the Super Nintendo
version. I don't like the button layout

(01:13:12):
and I don't know if I'm missing something.
Yeah, it's trash. OK.
Yeah. Right.
What's what's bad about it? I I think it's it feels like you
need another thumb. Like it would be nice to have a
thumb going off of yourself. Oh my God, I'm so glad.
I'm like, what am I missing here?
Because the reason it's it's it's so annoying is that you
hold down the B button to run. And so I don't know how you play
it, but I'm always holding that button down.

(01:13:35):
And then you have the jump button above it so you can roll
your thumb, but then you also have the spin jump, which does
not go as high, but has a lot ofuses in this game.
And that's the Y button. So there's no way to, like, kill
your thumb in place? Yeah, I.
Think so much spit and jump was in the bumper?

(01:13:55):
So Mike, this is This is why let's we never wrapped up our
Nintendos or that. But I think Mike and I are both
recommending the Gameboy advanceversion because on Gameboy
advance run is BA is jump and spin is the bumper.
And so finally your hands can stay put and you're not sliding
your thumb around the controller.
I like that way better. Mike, you did too, right?
Yeah. And I think actually if I had
started with that, I think I would have used the spin jump
more. I didn't use it much and I think

(01:14:17):
it's probably because I started with the S and ES and right.
That's, I didn't know that. That's interesting.
That's so interesting. I wish you could remap.
Anyways, go on. You assume we actually by the
time you're listening to this, you should be able to.
They're adding it to Nintendo classics, or at least for the
Nintendo, I don't know. It's just for the N64, I don't
know, no. Really.
They do, they thought it was. But I I like, I hope I prove me

(01:14:41):
wrong, Nintendo, prove me wrong.Making run Y would be nice and
then jump and then so you can rock your thumb and but yeah,
having to hold down B and then yeah, it seems like it's upside
down. One more thing to rant about
Mike, can I finish? This is related to this.
Then you finish. Yeah, Isn't actually that

(01:15:01):
balance between jumping and running and stuff actually was a
gameplay thing that sort of frustrated me of the extent of,
OK, I have to be at running and jumping off this platform, but
then I have to go back to regular speed to not run off the
next platform kind of stuff. I was a bit frustrated with the
you know, or I can't jump high enough unless I'm running kind

(01:15:23):
of stuff. Yeah.
And then it's pretty slippery too.
So sometimes if you keep runningand then that can really make
jumps more difficult than they need to be.
Yeah. Definitely not a I'm not a
general like fan of platforming and that made it more
frustrating. And Chocolate Island 2 where all
the platforms are on angles. Somehow it became the worst of

(01:15:46):
all possible. Legitimately, that may be my
least favorite platforming levelof any game I have ever played
in my life. Yeah, it tormented you for
hours. Yeah.
Well, so something that's tormented me since I was a kid
is that, and this is by the way,this is not a serious joy combo.
This is my last nitpick, and it's haunted me since I was a
kid. There's these really cool levels
where you can climb the fence inthe background, like Vega from

(01:16:08):
Street Fighter Two, and if there's a Koopa on the other
side of the fence, you can pressthe B button and you'll punch
the fence and kill them. If you're strong enough to do
that, why can't you just punch one that's right in front of
you? Do you know what I mean?
Like if Mario and Luigi can punch Koopas to death, just sock
it in the face, it's right there.
How come I have to jump? I don't know.
The underside you're hitting. Yeah, I thought about that but

(01:16:29):
still bugs me. Cuz I mean realistically like
this is weaker than Mario used to be cuz Mario used to hit him
through brick. That's true.
Yeah, that's a good point. Well, any other joy cons for
Super Mario World? No, I think that's a blasphemous
question actually. But.
Well, OK, but Dempsey, I feel like you listed 3 or 4 things.

(01:16:51):
You're like, Oh yeah, the controls are trashed, but the
game's packed. They're trashed in a good way.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good. It's a great game.
OK, what about this? OK, wait, Dempsey, what about
this? What about what's your reward
for 100% in this game? Because as near as I can tell,
the only thing that changes is that Bowser does not appear in
silhouette form at the end. Is there any special ending I

(01:17:12):
didn't know about? I don't know I I would have to.
I can't remember. I'm a bad person to ask.
I'm sorry. That's all good.
The real achievement is just knowing that you did it.
It's true, yeah. Bragging rights 100% I.
Didn't say bragging rights. I said knowing that you did it.
I think there's a bit. There's a very different
distinction there between self fulfillment versus validation

(01:17:33):
from others. Yeah, I have trouble separating
those things sometimes. Well, we already covered the
Nintendisc or dat, and I think Mike and I both agree.
Game Boy Advance, if you have access to it, that's the version
to play. I I think it's just a lump.
Although we haven't talked aboutthe one other thing that the
Game Boy Advance version does. The multiplayer.
No, I'm not even multiplayer thetalking.

(01:17:54):
Yes, they added voice lines. That's right.
That's crazy. What?
Yeah, I've never. So I've never played the Game
Boy Advance. Or is it?
Yeah, the Game Boy Advance version.
So this is all new to me. Yeah, so it's stuff like you get
a mushroom and it is like just what I needed or something.
Which honestly is very true. But I just keep having people
being like, I played this as a kid, I do not remember talking.
No, no, no. I'm playing the Game Boy Advance
version. They added that.

(01:18:16):
I don't know why they added that, but they did add it.
And then it, it, you know, we were right before recording, we
played the four player, I guess,deathmatch mode of the original
Mario game. It's included on every Super
Mario Advance game. But it was fun.
You know, it was just kind of competitive goofy, you know,
chopping it up. And, you know, I don't I don't
think I go out of my way to playit, but it was a fun little

(01:18:37):
bonus for this episode. I thought the deathmatch version
of. If you want to know our thoughts
on that game, go back to Season 1 because we covered the
original Mario Arcade True Believers back in Season 1.
OK, well so guys, if we have nothing else to say, I think
it's time to declare this game as a Nintendu or a Nintend.

(01:18:57):
Don't Dempsey. You'd be a weird Nintend.
Don't at this point. Yeah, it's one of the best video
games ever made. Don't.
Play it. So you know, we we do have
tiers. We have Nintendo Super.
Nintendo of a level of gatekeeping that is this game is
so good you don't deserve to play it.
That's. Right.
Hey, it works for the rest of the Internet, but so would you.

(01:19:19):
Would you bump this to the highest tier of Super Nintendo?
Sorry Nintendo 64 Dempsey, Is ita must play?
I think it is yeah, I think, I think anybody who likes,
especially if you like games like Celeste specifically like a
few. I know Celeste is very popular.
We have opening games has an episode about Celeste with one

(01:19:41):
of my favorite guests. So yeah, I, I if you like games
like Celeste or any platformers,this is a this is an absolutely
must. You can actually, I feel like
you can kind of see maybe where a lot of these ideas are kind of
celebrated as well. A. 100 percent, 100% Mike.
Nintendo. Nintendo, I mean.
I can definitely say where I wasgoing to be last night and, and,

(01:20:05):
and I'm gonna say where I was gonna be last night after
beating this. Nintendo was considered.
And I think what raised, and I think it's the frustration of
hitting a level and it's being like, well, this is very
frustrating at this point. And kind of what shifted that
around is #1 discovering that apparently there's a way to do

(01:20:26):
that level better. And the Star Rd. basically also
means like, even if I had been in a situation about, I cannot
get past this one level, but I can find out about the star Road
and bypass it. That is a lot better than a game
where it's like, if you can't beat one level, you will not see

(01:20:48):
anything after that. Like I yeah, having routes
around it definitely improved things and like cuz that was
something that felt almost like a fatal flaw having gotten
around that. And then also mentioning here
cuz I have mentioned earlier, the music in the castles is
really good. Yeah, do do do do do.

(01:21:11):
It's, it's the like, there's like a couple like lower notes
that come in that just they're really cool.
Yeah, very, very Hammer Horror. Yeah, but yeah.
So I think ultimately I do end up as a Nintendo on this, yeah.
And I do give credit to the factthat I think someone who enjoys

(01:21:32):
platforming a bit more would have a bit more to, you know,
the multiple pathways is neat toexplore as a general thing.
And I can see someone who's having more fun with platforming
than I do enjoying like fully completing that.
Yeah, 100 percent, 100%. I think this is easily the best
2D Mario game I've ever played. I think that, you know, perfect

(01:21:55):
difficulty balance because like Mike said, even if you hit a
roadblock, there's ways around it.
There's a whole world to explore.
You know, if you'll forgive the cringe here, though.
And I think when you add in the Game Boy Advance, keeping your
progress even to the point of mid level checkpoints, suddenly
it felt like there was no level that I wanted to give up on.

(01:22:17):
I just kept grinding and grinding and getting through
those levels felt so good. You know, by not cheating.
The cable club league compared this game to Sonic three.
They used to do this like kind of Coliseum episode where they
decide which game is better and I guess spoilers for that
episode, but they said Super Mario World was better than
Sonic 3. And I was like blasphemers Sonic

(01:22:38):
is the end all. But like Sonic, Sonic is still
my favorite franchise when it comes to platformers, but it
doesn't have the depth and the level of secrets and the
expansiveness that this game has.
Those levels are great, but there's just so much to this
game that it's really hard not to recommend.
So I think if you play the SNAS version, it's a Nintendo, but on

(01:23:01):
the Game Boy Advance, it goes upto a Super Nintendo for me, and
it's Super Nintendo. Excuse me, it's just wonderful.
So if you have the expansion pack, I think that's the way to
play it, but I think you should.I want to defend the SNES
version. Go ahead.
I'm gonna. So I think, I think I agree
broadly with a lot of what you're saying.

(01:23:22):
I do think that perhaps if you are playing it, maybe and maybe
this is not indicative of your experience, but I think if you
are playing it without a timeline or without finishing it
for an episode and can spend, can have it in the background or
can swap between games, you know, things like that.
I do think that the setting backand to either having to farm or

(01:23:47):
having to redo the levels or not.
I, I think there is a level of like almost like from soft
style, like, yeah, this is like this is kind of baked into my
hands now that I, I think is really satisfying.
So I, I, I, I think you're, I think if you really really,
really, really, really, really like platformers, you know, it's

(01:24:10):
the S and ES version. I think there's some, I think, I
think there's some, there's somevalue there.
I wouldn't, I wouldn't be. I wouldn't say it's not for
anyone. Yeah, I still said it was a
Nintendo. Well, yeah, yeah, OK, fair
enough. I think it also just reflects a
little bit of a change in gaming, that there was a time

(01:24:31):
where you were buying a game andit needed to last you, and I
think the farming kind of thing works in that.
Sure, I completely agree. Whereas an era where this would
have been, you know, 60 ish bucks or whatever that would
have been at the time, like games always been pricey ish.
Sure. Whereas now it's like I bought
Skyrim for 5 bucks. So like if I'm just farming

(01:24:54):
stuff, like I can switch games and have a different game for
cheap quickly. And like in this context, if you
have Nintendo Switch Online and you've got the Nintendo
classics, you can just switch tomany other games.
So I think that's where something that at a time where
you had to get a lot of gameplayout of it and it allowed a way

(01:25:15):
to do it, I think it doesn't. I mean, it didn't hold up as a
necessary thing enough that by the by the time they switched to
a handheld with Game Boy Advance, they kind of allowed
for some stuff where you're still having to go through
through chunks of levels and everything.
But I, yeah, I, I, I actually, Ithink that's really interesting

(01:25:35):
because I think when I formed memories with this, I had this
and then a Star Fox adventure. No, not Star Fox adventure.
Star Fox. I think you were flying.
Was there an S in the S game where you're flying a Star Fox?
Yeah, the original 1. Yeah, yeah.
So I had this in the Star Fox game.
Like, those were only two games I had from an SNES for like
years of my childhood. And so I yeah, I maybe that

(01:25:56):
stuff seemed more palatable because I did not have options.
Yeah, there's a bit that I thinkit's interesting to.
For me, it's interesting. Other people talk about like
gaming as a kid where they had large gaming, like large
collections of games and for anything I only ever had a few
games really. Because.
That was, you know, there and was the budget and what my

(01:26:18):
parents were willing to have around.
So it's like Game Boy. I think I have either two or
three games and that was it. And that Game Boy was mostly
used for Pokémon because that's why I had a Game Boy.
And the same thing kind of goes over to the other consoles that
I had is I didn't have many games.
And so it was like you put you what you had you were going to

(01:26:38):
play a lot of. And so I definitely get that
when it comes to this of. Yeah, I think, I know.
I think you're honest. I think that makes a lot of
sense. Well, you know, normally I say
agree to disagree, but we don't need to.
So chime in on the Discord guys,let's actually put this one up
there, Mike, because I totally respect Dempsey's opinion,
especially since he's a fan of the original.
But you and I are both on Team Gameboy Advance, so chime in on

(01:26:58):
the Discord. We'll put up a little survey.
You know, give them both a try and let us know what you think,
everybody. I want to recommend something.
Yeah, do it. So if you are looking for a 90s
anime that I think both capturesthe spirit of Super Mario that
you can watch for free on Super Mario World, that you can watch
for free on YouTube, I would like to see if you like the

(01:27:20):
aesthetics of Super Mario World.I really want to suggest to you
the 1992 made for television anime The Wonderful Galaxy of
Oz. And for whatever reason, I just
connect these two things so deeply together in my head.
I think The Wonderful Galaxy of Oz has such strong Super Mario

(01:27:44):
World energy. Well, yeah, I'm looking at
pictures of it. You're not wrong.
Also an interesting pitch because didn't they also make a
cartoon that was Super Mario World?
Yeah, but that's bad. This is bad.
This is a better Super Mario World adaptation.
I'm not sure if it is the one that where it's like an animated
Yoshi that talks and is like youshould have never what green

(01:28:07):
lighted this voice to be Yoshi. Well, yeah, Captain and and Mega
Man though, come on. Honestly the Yoshi is worse.
Guys, I think we're gonna call that game over for today.
The final score for Super Mario World is a resounding Nintendo
Dempsey. It's Thank you so much for
flapping your gums and flapping your Cape with us today.

(01:28:29):
Before you get on out of here, why don't you tell our listeners
where they can find your stuff again?
Yeah, so you can whatever you get podcasts over thinking games
podcast and then if you want to follow us on TikTok and comments
would that makes me feel good. That'd be awesome.
Are you still doing the game music TikTok videos?

(01:28:50):
Slow. Yeah.
Slowly, yeah, yeah, where I so Ihave a obnoxiously well, it's a
I'm proud of it. I I have a collection of indie
video game vinyls and so I'll play music from it and then show
the artwork and things like thatthat go with the vinyls and then
talk about how I feel about thatvideo game soundtrack.

(01:29:10):
So like Celeste Batter Wyles, Florence Griss alone or a Night
in the Woods kind of games like that, but have good vinyl
soundtracks on. Yeah, that's that's a series on
TikTok that we do. I love vinyls and I love video
games. That's a slam dunk.
I can't wait. Well, everybody join us next
time when Mike and I will be demolishing a rare,

(01:29:31):
one-of-a-kind classic Blast Corefor the Nintendo 64.
Also, don't forget to visit www.theoldswitcharu.com.
There you can find links to our Spotify, our YouTube, Instagram,
and all the social medias you can shake a joystick at.
You can even leave an old timey voicemail, meaning we'd
literally love to hear from you.Or even better, join the fun on
our Discord server where you canplay games, talk games, and even

(01:29:53):
make a friend or two. Big thanks to Crystal Fields for
our incredible intro song. And thank you, dear Listener for
liking, commenting, subscribing,reviewing, and playing along
with us every step of the way. This has been the old Switcheroo
where we've been talking gaming retro with Mike and Jamo.
I have been Mike. And I've been jamo game on
everyone. You know, I think really had a

(01:30:26):
good day whoever came up with the backpack Bowser design, you
know, like the. Oh yeah.
Like the backpacks that you can make?
It look like a spiny shell. Yeah, I think like whoever
designed that merch was like, this is a good piece of Mario
merch. There's your post credits team.
Like that's amazing. I think, I think about that

(01:30:47):
every time I see Bowser. And you know something, you
know, it wasn't someone who worked at Nintendo.
And everyone in Nintendo was pissed.
Like, why didn't we think of that?
We were selling Mario backpacks.Yeah, I lost.
I'm crying Luigi. It makes me so sad when Luigi
cries. I feel like when Mario cries,

(01:31:08):
I'm like he can pick himself up.When Luigi cries I'm like, would
you Jack on him? That's the difference I feel
between Mario and Luigi. While Luigi cries is just sexy,
yeah. Yeah, yeah.
I feel like when when while Luigi cries, I feel like there's
elements of his life I don't understand completely.
And so I, I don't know what the full context is.

(01:31:33):
So I'm not, I'm not actually Luigi, I am Mario, but green
you're. You're but you're wearing the
even the purple pants like I feel like.
Yeah, but it says M on my hat, unless I'm just like borrowing a
Mario hat. You think you would wear a a hat
that had AJ on it? It's like that.
Absolutely would. Yeah, he would.
OK. You want to get me a hat with AJ

(01:31:54):
on it, that is. I don't know if that was like
too self aggrandizing. Or not.
I'm all about self aggrandize. OK, that's good.
I listen to our episodes an embarrassing number of times.
It's actually been interesting because I don't think that much
about the NSS service other thanplaying this game specifically.

(01:32:18):
So it's it's been interesting tohear what is on here.
Like I've known nostalgia attached to any of this.
It's really frustrating because I, I, I do genuinely believe a
part of the reason we're struggling to get this thing to
have a big audience is because nobody knows about this freaking
service like Nintendo advertisesit so badly.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Bobby Bones Show

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}S3E09: Super Mario World -or- Eggs-it, Stage Right