May 21, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode of my One Big Thing podcast, I connect with my pastor, mentor, and friend — Pacer Hepperly. As the senior pastor of Rio Revolution Church, a multi-site campus that reaches over 13,000 people and streams into 35 correctional facilities, Pacer’s journey is anything but conventional.
From humble beginnings in a broken home and working in a factory with no clear direction, to launching a successful car dealership and eventually stepping into full-time ministry at the age of 43, Pacer shares how his life has been shaped not by one defining moment, but by a series of small, faithful decisions.
Together, we unpack the significance of patience, perseverance, and obedience — especially when you don’t have a plan B. We discuss how to make difficult life decisions, the role of wise counsel, and how God confirms His direction in our lives, even when the details are unclear. Pacer also opens up about his unexpected call to prison ministry and the powerful impact it’s having across 35 jails.
Whether you’re leading a business, a family, or finding your way through a season of uncertainty, this episode offers real-world wisdom, spiritual insight, and hope for those asking, “What’s next for me?”
Key Takeaways:
- Why success is often the result of doing “a lot of small things right”
- The power of patience and staying faithful through long seasons
- How to discern the difference between faith and foolishness in decision-making
- Why seeking wise, experienced voices is crucial when you’re navigating big life changes
- The beautiful story of how one church is restoring hope in prisons across the region
______________________________
Pacer Hepperly is the senior pastor of Revolution Church, a multi-campus church in Maryville, Tennessee. Since accepting the Lord’s call to preach, Pastor Hepperly has dedicated his life to serving his congregation and the communities within Blount County.
Along with Revolution Church, he founded Revolution Christian Academy, (RCA), a thriving Christian school that serves ages 2-5 and grades K-5th, and focuses on using Biblical core values to educate students.
Pastor Pacer has an extraordinary passion for discipleship and community outreach.
Pacer and his wife Connie have been married for more than 30 years. They share two sons, Josh and Hunter, two amazing daughters-in-law, Codi and Stacey, and six grandchildren.
______________________________
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:13):
Welcome to the One Big Thingpodcast where inspiration meets transformation.
I'm your host, Steve Campbell,and I'm excited to have you join
me today.
I welcome guests from allwalks of life to the show.
We're going to spend about 30minutes getting into their story
and sharing the One Big thingthat they want to share with all
of you that can help you movethe forward in your life.
So thank you for being myguest in the One Big Thing and enjoy
(00:35):
this episode.
It's just like we're going tostep into this without a plan B.
Many times we've all, we allwant to have a plan B and so I'm
not a big fan of plan B.
I think that when you, whenyou feel good with something that
you should go all in 100%without even the, the idea or the
(01:01):
thought of it failing.
And we know that some thingsfail and if.
But, but I believe that Godwill use those things that fail as
a tool to help us, you know,re navigate or get it on, get on
another path for success.
Welcome to the One Big Thing podcast.
I'm your host, Steve Campbell.
(01:22):
Got to make sure I don't screwthis one up today as I actually have
my pastor on with me, Pacer Hepperle.
Sourcing guests is always a ple.
And when you have somebodywho's been a spiritual mentor and
father in many ways to you, Iwanted to create the space to honor
him, to come share what I getto take from him every Sunday, but
also just knowing him as apersonal friend.
And so Pacer Heppily, welcometo the One Big Thing podcast.
(01:43):
For those that know you fromour church, family and friends, welcome.
This is an interview styleshow and I interview people from
all walks of life with thewhole idea of how do we encourage
and inspire people that are inchallenging seasons right now, really
around one big, you know,theme or life lesson that you'd want
to share.
So for those that may not knowyou, do you want to take a minute
here at the beginning just toexplain who you are?
(02:05):
Sure.
Well, first I want to saythanks Steve, for having me on.
It took us a little while tocoordinate this date, but I'm excited
to be with you.
And again, my name is Pacer Hepperle.
I'm a senior pastor of a multistock campus, also a business owner
and husband, father, seven grandchildren.
(02:27):
And so we can unpack any ofthat or all of that, whatever you'd
like to do.
But I'm just, I'm justthrilled to be with you today.
Well, you are officially Mysecond pastor in my tenure of recording
the One Big Thing podcast.
For those that are here, justchecking it out, I had the honor
of sitting down with PastorChris Cannon, who had a little bit
of different story that was areally revealing episode as he was
(02:48):
in ministry for 10 years,unfortunately was unfaithful to his
wife, had to step down from achurch, and what the enemy tried
to use as a weakness actuallybecame a launching pad for him to
start a non profit out inCalifornia called Sword and Shovel
Ministry, which is to help menfighting addiction and infidelity
kind of reclaim their purpose.
(03:09):
To give you a little spoileralert, him and his wife reconciled,
got back together.
So it wasn't just a bigmistake that ended in a life, you
know, sentence, but it wassomething that God used to bring
together for good.
So to hear a pastor kind openup, you know, I'm excited, Pacer,
to have you on today.
And you know, this show iscalled the One Big Thing.
When I think about creatingcontent, I never want to just share
(03:31):
a story to share a story.
I want to give you as alistener a takeaway that you can
maybe implement in your lifefrom Pacer Story and the things he's
learned.
So Pacer Hepperle, if I had toask you, what is your one big thing
that you'd want to share withlisteners today?
Yeah, so if you would ask methis question 30 years ago, I'm sure
it would have totally been different.
(03:51):
I was on a different path.
But today I'm 61 years old, asI said earlier, senior pastor of
a church, multi site campus church.
And so my one big thing isreally focused on faith and focus
on ministry and you know,there's a lot to unpack there.
(04:13):
But you know, today I am asenior pastor but also a business
owner.
And so I would love to spendsome time today talking about how
I've gotten to where I'm at.
But honestly, I don't think itwas one big thing.
I think it was a sequence of alot of small things.
(04:34):
Yeah, we can cheat the system.
Instead of having one bigthing, we'll get into small things.
And if you know, faith isn't apart of your background, I don't
care.
Come listen.
There's going to be takeaways today.
When you hear multi site, allthat means in our realm is that real
revolution which you are thesenior pastor of God has blessed
with great favor and we'vewelcomed too many people for one
(04:55):
campus to hold.
So you open additional siteswhere people have the ability to
meet together with otherpeople, but live stream in and be
a part of the service.
And so if you've never heardthe word multisite before and you
don't know what that means,most people think a pastor oversees
one church, but God has givenyou the ability to oversee multiple
campuses.
And, you know, as we were kindof leading up to the show, I think
(05:17):
it's awesome that you alsohave a background in business because
if you've never been a pastor,it might be hard to identify because
people have never been in ministry.
But when you say businessowner, as you and I were kind of
talking about leading up tothis show and conversations, whether
you're overseeing 13,000people as a pastor or you're part
of a management team of acompany, or you have a vision for
(05:38):
starting a business or justleading a family, how do you lead?
How do you lead?
Well, and it doesn't matter ifit's members of a congregation, employees,
customers, I think you havingkind of both of those dual roles
will help somebody regardlessof where they're coming from today.
Go.
Okay, I may not understand itas a pastor, but when you say business
owner, now you're speaking mylanguage because I want to be the
(05:59):
best business owner possible.
So you said, you know, youwanted to talk about your journey,
being 61, where you've comefrom today, where, where's a good
starting point?
Where do you want to start?
Well, let, let's just brieflygo back to, to childhood and then
we'll move pretty quick intomy first real job.
How's that sound?
(06:20):
Don't worry, this isn't a fiveday podcast.
When he says we're going tostart a childhood, he's going to
give you the sped up versionof his life.
Yeah, yeah.
Just, just come from a familythat was broken, experienced a lot
of dysfunction, an incrediblemother, incredible father, just,
you know, they didn't see eyeto eye.
(06:41):
So my mother was married fourtimes and, you know, not blaming
anything in my childhood basedon, you know, on that, but I would
say that as I went throughschool, I didn't focus on things
I should have focused on.
And so I didn't make goodplans in terms of setting up a career
(07:04):
path or a future.
And so when I graduated highschool, it was pretty much, this
is the end in terms of education.
Let's get a job, just afactory job or whatever I could find
and let's get, let's go to work.
So now here I am, 19 yearsold, I've got a job in a factory.
(07:28):
I'm Working with a bunch ofguys, a bunch of buddies that I'm
hanging out with through the week.
Just got married.
I really have no goals, I haveno future.
But what happened was duringthis process, this is where the faith
aspect came in.
So I'd been feeling like Ineeded to change, like that there
(07:51):
was something missing in my life.
I wasn't exactly sure what,but I continued to feel this, had
this feeling.
And eventually I came to thepoint of prayer and a prayer of surrender.
And so as a result of thatprayer, my life took a different
path and a different turn.
And so I wanted to quickly,you know, bring you through what
(08:15):
took place there.
So I started.
I had a desire after thatprayer, after what I would call salvation.
I had this desire to be successful.
I wanted to.
I wanted to raise a family, Iwanted to have a career path.
But again, I felt like I was stuck.
I'm stuck in a factory, don'tsee any way out.
(08:38):
We had been able to purchase arepoed double wide trailer that we're
living in.
And it was not much to lookat, just to be honest with you, but
it worked.
But through this path, throughthis journey, I started noticing
as I would apply principlesthat I would read in the Bible, that
it was like God started givingme a desire for success, a desire
(09:04):
to do better.
And so what happened was acouple job changes.
I ended up employed for thecity of Maryville, which is city
government, basically lowlevel position, started there reading
meters.
I was the guy that would sliparound the back of your yard and
(09:24):
the dogs would chase me away.
And so I did that for a yearor so.
But what happened, Steve, wasI was not the person that would come
in and complain about the jobor if it was raining out or it was
too hot.
It's like, come on, let's go,let's do it.
And as a result, I noticedthat my boss was drawn.
(09:45):
You know, he liked my work ethic.
And as soon as a promotion wasavailable, I was promoted.
And over the next 19 years,there was multiple promotions until
the point came that I was overan entire department.
And as a result of that, therewas employees that under me that
(10:05):
required, you know, a degreeor degrees.
And so God had just reallyelevated me up.
And so we were talking aboutthe one big thing.
What I noticed in my life, Ifelt like it was just doing a lot
of the little things, right?
You know, as far as getting inthere and working and doing the extra
and not complaining.
And as a result, I noticedthat, man, you know, I'm doing alright,
(10:29):
doing pretty well.
And so 19 years brought me tothe point where I wanted to do even
more.
You know, it was good pay, Imade good money, but I wanted to
make more.
I'm money motivated.
I wanted to make more money.
I wanted to have a good familyfor my, my wife and for my two sons
at the time.
So we started a business andit was a car business.
(10:53):
I'd always been fascinatedwith automobiles.
I always loved them.
And so I thought, you know,let's start this little business.
Well, what happened as aresult of that?
It started taking off and itstarted growing and it started developing.
So now I'm working two jobsmanaging the business and about two
(11:13):
years in, year and a half, twoyears in.
Steve the business now ismaking four times the money that
the city government's paying me.
So it's like it's not makingsense for me to go and become a manager
or be a manager for city government.
I need to go ahead and investmore time into this dealership.
(11:35):
And so anyway, that's just ina nutshell how I ended up in and
opened up a small business.
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Well, and I think I want toback up because I think sometimes
we hear things in people'sstories and we just, oh, that.
You know, I get that your momhad been married four times and with
you and your brothers and youknow, any other siblings, that's
(12:40):
four different men enteringyour life as authority figures.
And I think, you know, for usthat have never come from a divorced
or broken family, it's hardenough trying to make it as a teen
growing up when you hadmothers and fathers that loved you.
But when you come frombrokenness, not that you get a pass
in life, but I think a lot ofpeople, it's easy to lean into that
(13:01):
of, well, I didn't have theupbringing, people can make excuses.
I think what's cool about yourstory is the two takeaways is you
came from brokenness and we'restill able to find good in all of
that by doing a lot of smallthings, but also when you're in your
30s and 40s.
Today the world is going sofast and our and our time clock has
sped up that we believe thingsshould be happening faster.
(13:23):
I wonder how many of us, ifyou made an offer that for 19 years
you could do something to getto the place that God is calling
you to, how many of us wouldaccept that challenge?
Because 19 years in today'stimeline seems like a forever.
You know, we want to work ajob for a year or be in a home in
a year before we upgrade.
We want to be promoted quickly.
So to know that you spent 19years faithfully doing small things
(13:47):
without complaining, withoutmaking excuses and this led to promotion
after promotion that is in along time frame.
Take your age as you listen tothis episode, add 19 years and say
if for starting today, Godsaid 19 years from now, I'm going
to open a door of opportunityfor you.
How many of us would say yeah,I have the patience to wait for that?
Versus gosh, it feels likethese last two years have been a
(14:09):
lifetime or decades.
And so I think what's so coolabout your story is if we just look
at you today, on the surfaceyou look very successful leading
13,000 people as a pastormulti site campuses.
But to know kind of, I don'twant to say humble roots in a disrespectful
way but the humbleness ofwhere it started and working up and
you know, I think starting thebusiness when you have to make these
(14:31):
big life decisions, you haveentrepreneurs that are listening
to this.
I recently had a friend onKristen who left her full time paying
job because she felt Godcalled her to leave, not to go to
ministry, but she had foundthat go by working with non profits
that she really had a gift forworking in consulting and she really
felt this call to just quither job and go off on her own without
a paycheck.
(14:51):
And so I think there arepeople that know there's, there's
maybe a different story thatthey should be taking or there's
more to their story but theydon't always know how to get to the
next level and they just kindof hope that today's going to be
a different day.
Has there been anything, Iknow you said it's a series of small
things, but has there been anyway that in your life has helped
(15:13):
you make decisions when Apromotion comes because that, that's.
Sometimes we get offeredpromotions and it's just not the
right fit, it's not the rightseason, but it sounds good.
How, how is that in your career?
Like, how have you and Conniebeen able to make decisions when
a promotion's come or new opportunity?
What is the thought process ordecision making process kind of been
(15:33):
for you over the years?
Yeah.
Well, first, it's generally scary.
You know, in the beginningit's like, okay, I'm going to be
taking a step of faith.
I don't know where this isgoing to end.
Whether it's promotion withcity government or it's an expansion
with the, the car dealership,if it's adding a new product line,
(15:55):
whatever it may be, it's scary.
And so I guess our decisionmaking or the process for Connie
and I is we've always tried togo to the Lord in prayer together
and try to have peace withwhatever decision we're making.
(16:15):
And if our stomachs arechurning and we feel nauseated, we
kind of take that as a signthat maybe this is not what the Lord
wants for us.
But through prayer we feelthat peace then.
Now we're ready to take thatnext step, whether it's again a job
promotion or whatever it may be.
(16:36):
And then what's next is that'stotally up to the Lord.
And it's never the same.
It's just like we're going tostep into this without a plan B.
Many times we all want to havea plan B.
And so I'm not a big fan ofplan B.
I think that when you feelgood with something, that you should
(16:59):
go all in 100% without eventhe idea or the thought of it failing.
And we know that some things fail.
But I believe that God willuse those things that fell as a tool
to help us re navigate or geton another path for success.
(17:22):
And so ours is prayer.
Trust in the Lord.
And then as we step into thatnew role now it's all in, no plan
B.
And we're going to give it ourbest effort, whatever that looks
like.
Whether it's the day I leftthe city of Maryland, I said, I'm
going all in with the cardealership at that point.
(17:43):
It's now I've trusted the cityfor a paycheck and now I'm depending
on people to come in and buyfor our paycheck.
It's a leap of faith.
And what I found is that Godallowed us to be successful even
(18:03):
though there was hard times inthe business.
Well, And I.
I think there's a gray area.
And probably people turn toyou as a pastor for guidance and
wisdom because they're tryingto make life decisions as an individual
or as a spouse, and the answerisn't always clear.
And I think that there is avery unique way in which God works
with us, that there's adifference between faith and foolishness.
(18:26):
Some people, when a decisionor an opportunity is presented to
them, they want every singledetail to be worked out before they
ever take a step of faith.
Oh, yeah, that's your almosttrying to not take faith at all and
just make sure it works.
But then there's people thatat the slightest indigestion, feel
it's God and just jump intosomething, which is foolishness,
saying, I felt God called meto do this.
(18:48):
And I think for many of us,even if faith isn't a part of your
life we're trying to navigate,how do I know if something really
is God?
Has there been anything in allof your years working in for the
city of Maryville, startingthe car dealership, and even now
in ministry that has eitherbeen a personal way that you look
at decision making or of thecountless people that come to you
(19:09):
for counseling?
And sometimes it's, again,we're not talking about evil or malicious
things.
Should I go do this?
It's just, should we buy a new home?
Should we relocate?
Should I take the job?
Should we have another child?
Should we adopt?
Should I do this thing?
These are all good things, butGod wants great for us.
(19:30):
What is that gray area betweenfoolishness and faith?
Has there been anything.
I know you said when yourstomach is upset, you know, it might
not be the right path, but isthere a certain.
Like, does God confirm thingsto you over and over again in certain
ways that's helped you andthat's what you tell people to look
for.
But what if you were justtalking to me, we weren't on a podcast,
and I said, pacer, I have anopportunity in front of me.
(19:51):
What do I do?
How do I know if this is God?
What.
What?
Could we help a listener who'strying to work through maybe a big
life decision right now?
Yeah, so.
So I.
The first thing that I want todo, I mean, prairies first and getting
that piece.
But now how do I know?
How do I really know if thisis what I should do?
(20:12):
Here's something that I wouldsuggest, and I use this is I try
to identify three people thatI have confidence in, that has some
experience in the area thatI'm Needing to.
Needing direction.
And so I try to identify threepeople and I go to them and I have
(20:34):
a conversation.
I lay out everything that, allthe information I can give them that
I have, and I get their feedback.
And I take those threeindividuals and I just shelf everything
that they tell me.
And so that's part of myprocess on moving forward.
(20:55):
The other part is what I'msaying is hearing from the Holy Spirit,
is the Holy Spirit giving medirection that's in alignment with
any of those three?
I think that's some of thethings that I do personally, and
it helps me because God usespeople, obviously, to speak into
(21:16):
your life.
He uses circumstances, but heuses people.
And I'm not saying that eachone of these individuals need to
be a pastor or not.
I'm just saying people withexperience in that field that you're
looking at, if it's finance, Imay come to you, Steve, and say,
(21:36):
hey, what do you think about this?
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
And I think what happens toois sometimes we open ourselves up
to maybe go to another person,and there's going to be people that
are your cheerleaders and inyour corner.
And it all depends on how youlay out a situation.
If you weren't a pastor and wewere just buddies, and I came to
you and I said, man, I'mhaving a really difficult time at
(21:56):
work.
I think I want a new opportunity.
My boss is just riding me.
You love me.
So you'd be like, man, gochase your dreams.
Go take that job.
Which sounds like wisdom,counsel, but really you just love
me and you want.
You want to do what's right.
I think when you say thesethree people, these are going to
be three kind of unemotionalpeople of wisdom that aren't just
going to listen to the emotionwhich is coming through, but really
(22:18):
listen to maybe what is Godsaying to them and provide feedback
to you.
Because I think so manypeople, they.
They feel like faith may notbe going to other people.
Like, this is somethingbetween me and the Lord.
I got to figure out.
You know, I've had this thingweighing on my heart.
Should I go on a missions trip?
Should I adopt?
Should we have more kids?
Should we be giving or tithing more?
(22:39):
Like, should we be doing things?
And sometimes we feel likegoing to others is a cop out because
we want to just hear from God.
And what I think is awesome tohear from you as a pastor is no,
I think you need to beselective as to who you go to.
But try to find three peoplebecause the first person you go to
might be exactly the answeryou're looking for.
And you'll make a decision.
The first person may be negative.
(23:00):
And now all of a sudden youfeel like, did I miss it?
Having three seems to bebalanced because then you're kind
of getting a, a blend of the three.
And so I hope that inspires orencourages somebody out there today.
That's a simple thing to do,to want to listen to the Holy Spirit,
but find three people thatmight be able to help you.
So then Pacer, in your worldyou were, you were turning it into.
(23:21):
And thank you for, for those listening.
Thank you for just.
My brain goes a mile a minute.
I got a buddy Eric who's like,how do you think of these questions
in real time?
You try not to get in the way,but I always want to make sure it's
impactful.
You had worked for 19 years,City of Maryville, started off then
into the car dealership.
And we started off by sayingyou, you manage, you know, or oversee
(23:41):
a multi site campus.
People are probably startedsaying, well, where did the pastor
come in?
So, so what was that?
Like you're now off, you know,running these dealerships.
You, you know, God's hand ison it.
But then you ended up in ministry.
What, what was kind of that transition?
How did that even come about?
And you wouldn't think,typically somebody who's overseeing
(24:01):
a car, car lot, family cardealership would now be filling a
pulpit every Sunday, right?
Yeah, yeah.
They, you've probably heardthe two people to be aware of, be
careful of, is car salesmenand preachers.
Come on, Pace.
You got them both, baby, gotthem both covered.
So there you go, watch out for me.
You know, here's the thingwith, you know, my journey was not,
(24:25):
I didn't go to seminary, therewasn't a plan for me to be a pastor.
But I had a feeling in my 20sthat maybe that was at least a possibility.
And so again, that's in theback of my mind.
But what I would notice isthat many times when I was doing
something that didn't requirea lot of brain power, that there
(24:49):
was a lot of questions in mylife about am I doing what I'm supposed
to do?
Is there something else?
You know, and it was almostusually when I was mowing the yard,
you know, when you're mowingthe yard, all you have to do is turn
at the end of the yard.
You know, we come back.
So that was my, that was someof my time when I felt like that
(25:12):
I would think a lot and I'dquestion if.
If I'm really doing what I'msupposed to be doing.
So that was always there.
Now want to fast forward?
I'm 43 years old.
I've left the city, I'mrunning a business.
It's expanded, it's grown,it's doing extremely well.
(25:32):
Financially.
We're set.
I'm in my 40s and we can goanywhere we want to go.
We can take vacations, allinclusive trips to Hawaii and Mexico.
And we're doing it.
I mean, we've got the money,the resources are there.
But I still had that questionin my mind again.
When I'm doing something thatdoesn't require a lot of brain activity,
(25:55):
it was like, there's stillthat question, is this it?
Now you're doing wellfinancially, you have no debt.
So I spent some time and Ifelt like the Lord was really tugging
at my heart, that this wasn't it.
There was something else thatGod had allowed me to start the business
(26:17):
to be a tool for ministry,which I'm a big fan of, marketplace
ministry.
I think.
I think that every Christianbusiness owner should realize that
they're called into that arenafor a purpose, and it's to expand
the kingdom in whatever levelthat looks like in their industry.
(26:37):
So through that prayer, Godstarted really showing me that this,
you need to be pastoring a church.
This is your call, this isyour purpose.
So I made a decision.
My wife and I made a decisionthat we laid out several fleeces.
And basically what that meansis we were looking for signs saying,
(27:01):
God, if this is what you wantme to do, I want this to happen in
my life.
We did that probably at leastthree times, maybe more.
And honestly, Steve, it waslike every time I ask for a sign,
God did it.
And I'd sit back and I'dthink, there's no way, but I would
(27:22):
always be able to use the.
Well, that was a coincidence.
You know, that was just a coincidence.
And the last sign he gave me,and I'm not going to go into details
on what it was, but the lastsign, it was like, there's no way
that's a coincidence.
And so I said, okay, God, herewe go.
I don't know what the cardealership is going to look like.
Our sons are too young to runit, but I'm ready to say yes to the
(27:47):
ministry.
And so my wife and I, we said yes.
We got with our senior pastor,they planted us in a high school,
and we started January 7,2007, with 39 people that said, we
want to be part of this plant.
And so that was basically howit started.
It's just as simple as that.
(28:08):
Those were 39 used cars buyersthat you just put a pamphlet in their
car on their way out and theycame to join you at the church.
Well, I got to give a littlebit of background as to how you and
I met.
So I've, I've kind of sharedon the podcast before that.
Steph and I, we've been inEast Tennessee for four years and
through Covid we really feltthis tug on our heart to get away
from family and relocate.
(28:29):
We didn't really know anybodyin East Tennessee, but we just had
this strong kind of Abrahamcalling that it was time to go.
And so we had spent a year, wehad traveled to East Tennessee, spent
a week down here and reallyloved it.
At the height of COVID in NewYork, which was quarantined and locked
down.
And then I came down here andthought, what is this place?
And then we ended up sellingour home within a day and a half,
(28:51):
putting it on the market.
And family was like, what'sthe plan?
And we had no idea.
There was no plan B, as you said.
It was just, I don't know,being faithful.
House sold.
We ended up having to rent asix month rental on the other side
of town.
Family was like, what are youguys doing with four kids?
And we had scheduled a fiveweek trip to East Tennessee to an
Airbnb to come and recreatelife in East Tennessee as much as
(29:14):
possible.
Let's go to church on multiple occasions.
Let's go to grocery stores.
Let's not just have that oneweek, life is better here, let's
move mentality.
And we had visited, I don'tknow, three or four churches before
we ever found Rio, where we go now.
And they just weren't for us.
And so I grew up in what'scalled the Spirit filled church,
(29:34):
the Assemblies of God.
I went to Google and I said,are there any local Spirit filled
churches?
And Rio Revolution came up ona search result.
And it was a Saturday night,it was our last Sunday in town.
I said, honey, get ready,tomorrow we're going to go to an
all Spanish church.
And she said, I said, we'regoing to this church called Rio Revolution.
It's going to be awesome.
And I walked in and it wasn'tan all Hispanic church.
(29:56):
I wasn't disappointed.
But we had this service andyou were up there preaching about
stewardship.
But a lot of the message wasabout how you and Connie struggled
financially early in your 20sand you kept using this example of
this double wide trailer thatmight have had a hole in the ceiling
with tar.
And I remember sitting therethinking, gosh, this pastor's really
(30:16):
been through a lot financially.
He's really struggled in life.
And so here we are weeks later.
That was the only interactionI had with you.
We prayed before I left.
You were kind enough to comeout in front of a packed congregation
and pray with Steph and I,which was just a, a sign to us that
we were in the right place.
And I just thought it was sogracious of you to come out and pray
for us.
(30:36):
And so we went back to NewYork with no plan.
We needed to be out of ourhouse in the next 4ish weeks.
We had a deadline of when ourshort term lease was going to be
up.
We could not find a house tosave our life.
And one day I got a call fromour realtor who said, I don't know
why I didn't mention this toyou, but my aunt has been flipping
a house in the city of Maryville.
No one knows about it.
Do you want to see it?
(30:57):
So she.
This was literally the day Iprayed God, I threw out the fleece.
I need you to do something.
I need a sign.
And I got this phone call outof nowhere.
So we face time.
It ended up that the houseworked, but there was a two week
period where we had to find aplace to stay.
So when you're, when you'restates away and you don't know the
geography, you don't knowbusinesses, I started looking up,
you know, long term hotelrentals and thinking, bring my dog
(31:20):
and my four kids and my wifeand we'll go stay in this.
And randomly one day youemailed me and said, I was praying
for you.
What do you guys need right now?
And I remember I wrote back,we need a place to stay for two weeks.
And later that day you wroteback, I've got this place, you can
stay this cabin.
And I remember telling Steph,God, I think Pacer's gonna and Connie
(31:44):
open a door of a blessing.
And she said, but is this theplace with the hole in the ceiling?
Can you ask?
That's it.
So it was this moment of like,what a blessing, Lord, but where
in the world are we staying?
And we ended up actuallymoving down here.
We stayed not only for twoweeks, gracious enough where your
family is in one of yourcabins, but it ended up being eight
(32:05):
weeks because our took longerthan expected and we had contractors
Quit the job.
But it was such a sweet fastpass to getting to know you.
Because for eight weeks,Stephanie and I and our four kids
got to stay on the propertywith you and Connie and your kids
have dinner with you when we could.
And I got to see you behindthe scenes, which I think my prayer
was, God, if I'm going torelocate my family to a place I've
(32:28):
never been, I don't know anyof these pastors.
I got to know that whoever I'mgoing to align my family with as
a church, in a ministry, I gotto know that that pastor isn't there
to use and abuse us or, youknow, just we don't know them.
And so God gave me this sweetopportunity with you.
For eight weeks, you helped mepick up a couch on Facebook, marketplace
in a pickup truck.
(32:48):
We spent time together.
And I think people only seeyou behind a pulpit or behind a screen.
They know you, but I reallygot to know you.
And so when I think about man,it's one thing to be a pastor and
to have all the right wordsand be a spiritual mentor.
It's another thing to show upwhen people need you.
And for Steph and I, I justwant to personally thank you for
being for us an extension of afamily that we didn't have here.
(33:09):
And I think that's what'sbrought us so close together.
So I've seen firsthand thefruit of your ministry has been blessed,
because I think you didn't goto seminary, you didn't check off
the boxes.
You're just a man who I thinkloves the Lord, loves his family,
has tried to be obedient everystep of the way, has worked to never
cheat anybody.
And through a series of smalldecisions, being faithful, God has
opened these doors.
(33:30):
So that's the context for howyou and I met that.
So now Steph and I findourselves at Real Revolution.
It's a multi site campus withover 13, 000 members, but also streaming
into how many prisons at this point?
35.
Now can you talk about whatthat means, streaming into ministries,
how that, that, that impact isabsolutely incredible.
Yeah, yeah.
(33:51):
So, so the majority of ourmembers or listeners are in the prison.
And of course I was never incarcerated.
You know, so you would evenwant, I would wonder, you know, God,
why would you want to use usin those prisons?
But let me quickly tell youhow that came to pass.
(34:12):
So during COVID right beforeCOVID happened, we were, we'd been
talking to the local sheriffin Blount county about the possibility
of streaming our services intheir facility.
And he honestly was open tothe idea.
We were just trying to figureout how we were going to do it.
Well, not long after themeeting I had with the sheriff, new
(34:37):
technology came out in thejails where they added devices, sort
of like an iPad devices inevery cell in Blount county.
And so these devices weregoing to be used not only for, well,
for visitation primarily, sothey didn't have to take inmates
out of the cell, relocate theminto another classroom and then back
(34:58):
and forth.
And all the security that'sinvolved, that was one of the purposes
of it.
There were several educationand some different things.
So when I found out about it,I said, what about our church app?
Is there a possibility we getour church app on these devices?
And so just to make a longstory short, we got them on and it
was a huge blessing.
(35:19):
The sheriff okayed it in our,in our county, in Blount county.
And they said immediately theystarted seeing a difference in just
the atmosphere in the jail.
They were overcrowded.
They had about 600 inmates ina facility that's designed for 400.
And they were having a lot of,lot of problems.
(35:39):
But the sheriff gets back withus and said, man, thank you for what
you're doing.
It's making a tremendous difference.
The inmates are loving the worship.
They're loving having theaccess to your church services.
So that's where it started.
It started with one and thecost was $1,000 to be in that jail.
(36:03):
I asked our church, I said,are these people worth a thousand
dollar investment to be ableto hear the gospel every weekend?
And most of our church said,yes, they are worth it.
So we launched it.
Well, now it's having such animpact that the sheriff, we were
interested in some localcounties that butts up to the county
(36:26):
we live in.
And so we went to talk with them.
The sheriff in our county vouched.
He called their sheriffs,their sheriff and said, hey, it works.
It's great.
You should let them in.
And so that's how we got our start.
We started with one, then itwas two, then it was three, four,
five.
And then it's just continuedto grow.
(36:47):
And now we were at 34 untillast Sunday.
And we had a couple that movedfrom California that came up to me
and said, hey, how much doesit cost?
I said, It's 500amonth now toget in a jail.
They've lowered the price.
They said, well, now we have 35.
So we officially are at 35.
But these people are writingletters Every weekend they're being
(37:08):
saved, they're saying, hey, Ihad no hope, but now this gives me
hope.
So it's phenomenal.
Well, and Pacer, I think whatyou just said is the impact is tremendous,
but it doesn't just happenwithout buy in from all people involved.
And I think anytime you make abig paradigm shifting change, saying,
hey, this is important to usas church leadership, we want to
be in these jail cells.
(37:29):
Not that it's ever met withfriction, but anytime you're trying
to change the culture or whatwe value as an organization where,
look, we not only want topreach to those that don't feel they're
without hope, but we also wantto open our doors as a church that
when these men and women getout, we want them to know that there's
a home here.
And that takes seeing peoplethat look different than you showing
up on Sunday, you know, and,and just, you know, we're not going
(37:50):
to stick them in the back ofthe church like they are a part of
our family.
You have individuals that arelistening to this show today that
have families where they'retrying to shift the narrative that's
been around their family andtheir parents, the culture shift.
You got people that are partof businesses where maybe it's been
toxic or not an environmentand they're trying to shift the culture
in their work.
Has there been anything that,as you've been leading Rio, whether
(38:13):
it's through the incarcerationopportunity or just making changes
within the church, or evenjust back to your time when you were
at the dealership, when youtry to inject change, like what has
helped you not only castvision, but get other people, because
it takes people to do big things.
How do you, how do youconvince or how do you get people
on board with a vision when it hasn't?
(38:35):
When you only have one tablet,it's hard to imagine 35.
Like, how do we encourage thelistener out there today that knows
differences on the other sideof changes, but doesn't know how
to shift a mindset or culturaldynamic, whether it's in their personal
life or in their business?
Yeah, that's.
That's a great question.
You know, changing culturetakes time, obviously.
(38:58):
And so I don't think anyoneshould expect that they can change
the culture quickly.
But what you would need to doas a leader, you would need to talk
about what's coming, talkabout the change.
Don't shock anyone withsomething new, but make people aware
(39:18):
of what's coming.
And so I think that's in termsof this new culture as far as inviting
people who are incarceratedinto our jails, because honestly,
I think we're probably gettingsomewhere between probably close
to 10 inmates every weekendthat are first time visitors to our
church.
And so that's a lot of people.
(39:39):
It's not like one.
Occasionally, it's every weekend.
So what basically I did was Italked about it a lot before it happened.
You know, that this is what Isee happening.
Number one, I would referencewhat the Bible has to say about those
in prison.
You know, Jesus said that whenI was in prison, you visited me.
(40:01):
And then, you know, and thenthey said, when did we visit you,
Jesus?
And he said, when you visitedthe least of these.
So we talked a lot about thisand what's coming and tried to set
the tone not abruptly, but,but slowly.
And then when they startedcoming in, it was a culture change.
But the people, I think,received them well.
(40:23):
I mean, from the beginning,you would see, like I'll give you
an example, there's one guy inour church and he's a scientist,
he's over the national lab forOak Ridge, and he's in my life group.
And I asked him the question.
I said, so what do you thinkabout these individuals who are incarcerated
coming into our church?
I would see them out in frontand I was just curious from a professional
(40:46):
individual, what do you think?
And he said, I love it.
He said, we love it.
I think it's great.
So what I noticed, Steve, isthat more people were accepting.
And I think a lot of it wasbecause we talked about it, we continue
to talk about it, and we givethe wins.
When you share a win, thenpeople can buy in.
(41:08):
And I think they're more aptto culture change.
But culture is always changingin your business, in life, especially
in the church world.
And sometimes it's gradual,but sometimes, I'll tell you, culture
changed quickly in our churchin 2020 because what happened when
(41:29):
Covid hit, a lot of peoplestarted staying home and watching
the services live stream, andit opened up a lot of seats.
But in our particular area, wehad individuals moving in just like
yourself from upstate New Yorkand from California and from different
regions.
So what happened is that ourculture changed quickly because we
(41:54):
had.
I'm going to throw this number out.
Maybe half of our congregationcame from other regions.
They came from California,from New York, and they didn't have
the same culture.
There's a different culture there.
And so what I've noticed as apastor is that, number one, be aware
(42:15):
when culture is changing andif it's not a good thing, then start
talking about what you wouldlike for it to be.
And I'm saying this as abusiness owner or whatever, and.
But, but start talking about it.
Talk about the winds.
And maybe some other time wecan talk about some of the culture
(42:36):
change that I've noticed justfrom people coming from different
regions of America.
It's not from differentcountries, it's from the United States.
But the culture is differenton the west coast than it is the
east coast or up north versusdown South.
And so when that happened,quickly, it's like we're a different
church in terms of our culture.
And it's not a bad thing.
(42:57):
It's just different.
Yeah.
And I think we all strugglewith the idea of different.
But you said the idea of winsor stacking wins.
I think when you say, hey,this is the vision I have for our
church or for my business orfor our family.
When things start small and inseed form, it's really hard to truly
appreciate the fruit of theoak tree down the road.
But when you live stream inevery Sunday, every Sunday, every
(43:19):
Sunday, and people like, yeah,we do that thing.
But then a human being comesas a result of that, and it's like,
oh, like this is actuallymaking a difference.
That win carries such momentumbecause you feel like we're actually
doing it.
And I think for so many of usthat are in our 30s and 40s, we're.
We're planting seeds all thetime, and we're not yet at the point
that you're seeing the fruitright away.
(43:39):
But when you get to get thosewins, whether it's, you know, you've
been saving a little bit ofmoney every month, and now all of
a sudden you're at a placewhere you can do something.
It's a different season oflife in learning how to accept that.
And so I'd love to invite youback at some time because I think,
you know, there would be agreat dynamic for us to get into.
But one of the things that Iwant to do is always be mindful for
you as a listener that youonly have so much time.
(44:01):
I want to make sure in theshow notes that we put links for
contact information for RioRevolution if you ever, because there
are some amazing thingshappening here in East Tennessee.
If you got questions, get intouch with Pacer, get in touch with
Rio Live Stream.
If you don't have a homechurch, but you have such a cool,
cool story between the dualrole of being both in the sacred
(44:21):
and the secular.
And if I think I can, youknow, summarize our entire time together.
It's not necessarily one bigthing that you have to take away.
It's a series of smalldecisions stacked up on top of each
other and being faithful, evenwhen the manifestation of the dream
doesn't happen quickly.
It might take 19 years, itmight take longer.
The the results that I've seenin your life are inspiring to so
(44:44):
many of us that I think areasking God, God, when is the next
chapter?
When is it going to get easier?
It may never get easier, andthat's the spoiler.
But the challenge you're goingto be stronger for because you're
going to be more endurance onyour end.
Don't, don't take for grantedthe things that you might be struggling
with today might be the thingsthat God is allowing you to go through
(45:04):
that are shaping yourcharacter and revealing parts of
him that he wants you to know.
So, Pacer, I want to thank youfor being a guest on the One Big
Thing podcast.
This has been a lot of fun.
Anytime mentor in your life,you want to make sure you honor your
time, but we'll put theinformation in there.
And for those that are friendsand family, I hope you guys will
check out other episodes ofthe One Big Thing.
I have people from allbackgrounds, whether it's faith,
(45:26):
you know, they didn't grow upin faith.
They're in business, they'rein sports, in the NFL.
So it's just fun to hearpeople's stories and things they've
gone through.
So, as always, thank you forbeing my guest on the One Big Thing
podcast.
Loved it, enjoyed it.
Thank you.
Steve, thanks for checking outmy show.
If you enjoyed this episode,I'd love for you to write a review
or drop a comment whereveryou're listening or watching.
(45:46):
And be sure to stay connected.
Did you know you can subscribeto my YouTube channel, which is Eve
CampbellPR?
That's Steve Campbell, PR andI'm a real person who's reachable.
You can find me on all mysocials and connect with me.
If you have topics or guestsyou'd love to hear from, let me know.
But thanks for being a part ofthis channel.
Journey with me and until nexttime, enjoy other episodes of the
(46:08):
One Big Thing podcast.
Welcome to the One Big Thingpodcast where inspiration meets transformation.
I'm your host, Steve Campbell,and I'm excited to have you join
me today.
I welcome guests from allwalks of life to the show.
We're going to spend about 30minutes getting into their story
and sharing the One Big thingthat they want to share with all
of you that can help you movethe forward in your life.
So thank you for being myguest in the One Big Thing and enjoy
(00:35):
this episode.
It's just like we're going tostep into this without a plan B.
Many times we've all, we allwant to have a plan B and so I'm
not a big fan of plan B.
I think that when you, whenyou feel good with something that
you should go all in 100%without even the, the idea or the
(01:01):
thought of it failing.
And we know that some thingsfail and if.
But, but I believe that Godwill use those things that fail as
a tool to help us, you know,re navigate or get it on, get on
another path for success.
Welcome to the One Big Thing podcast.
I'm your host, Steve Campbell.
(01:22):
Got to make sure I don't screwthis one up today as I actually have
my pastor on with me, Pacer Hepperle.
Sourcing guests is always a ple.
And when you have somebodywho's been a spiritual mentor and
father in many ways to you, Iwanted to create the space to honor
him, to come share what I getto take from him every Sunday, but
also just knowing him as apersonal friend.
And so Pacer Heppily, welcometo the One Big Thing podcast.
(01:43):
For those that know you fromour church, family and friends, welcome.
This is an interview styleshow and I interview people from
all walks of life with thewhole idea of how do we encourage
and inspire people that are inchallenging seasons right now, really
around one big, you know,theme or life lesson that you'd want
to share.
So for those that may not knowyou, do you want to take a minute
here at the beginning just toexplain who you are?
(02:05):
Sure.
Well, first I want to saythanks Steve, for having me on.
It took us a little while tocoordinate this date, but I'm excited
to be with you.
And again, my name is Pacer Hepperle.
I'm a senior pastor of a multistock campus, also a business owner
and husband, father, seven grandchildren.
(02:27):
And so we can unpack any ofthat or all of that, whatever you'd
like to do.
But I'm just, I'm justthrilled to be with you today.
Well, you are officially Mysecond pastor in my tenure of recording
the One Big Thing podcast.
For those that are here, justchecking it out, I had the honor
of sitting down with PastorChris Cannon, who had a little bit
of different story that was areally revealing episode as he was
(02:48):
in ministry for 10 years,unfortunately was unfaithful to his
wife, had to step down from achurch, and what the enemy tried
to use as a weakness actuallybecame a launching pad for him to
start a non profit out inCalifornia called Sword and Shovel
Ministry, which is to help menfighting addiction and infidelity
kind of reclaim their purpose.
(03:09):
To give you a little spoileralert, him and his wife reconciled,
got back together.
So it wasn't just a bigmistake that ended in a life, you
know, sentence, but it wassomething that God used to bring
together for good.
So to hear a pastor kind openup, you know, I'm excited, Pacer,
to have you on today.
And you know, this show iscalled the One Big Thing.
When I think about creatingcontent, I never want to just share
(03:31):
a story to share a story.
I want to give you as alistener a takeaway that you can
maybe implement in your lifefrom Pacer Story and the things he's
learned.
So Pacer Hepperle, if I had toask you, what is your one big thing
that you'd want to share withlisteners today?
Yeah, so if you would ask methis question 30 years ago, I'm sure
it would have totally been different.
(03:51):
I was on a different path.
But today I'm 61 years old, asI said earlier, senior pastor of
a church, multi site campus church.
And so my one big thing isreally focused on faith and focus
on ministry and you know,there's a lot to unpack there.
(04:13):
But you know, today I am asenior pastor but also a business
owner.
And so I would love to spendsome time today talking about how
I've gotten to where I'm at.
But honestly, I don't think itwas one big thing.
I think it was a sequence of alot of small things.
(04:34):
Yeah, we can cheat the system.
Instead of having one bigthing, we'll get into small things.
And if you know, faith isn't apart of your background, I don't
care.
Come listen.
There's going to be takeaways today.
When you hear multi site, allthat means in our realm is that real
revolution which you are thesenior pastor of God has blessed
with great favor and we'vewelcomed too many people for one
(04:55):
campus to hold.
So you open additional siteswhere people have the ability to
meet together with otherpeople, but live stream in and be
a part of the service.
And so if you've never heardthe word multisite before and you
don't know what that means,most people think a pastor oversees
one church, but God has givenyou the ability to oversee multiple
campuses.
And, you know, as we were kindof leading up to the show, I think
(05:17):
it's awesome that you alsohave a background in business because
if you've never been a pastor,it might be hard to identify because
people have never been in ministry.
But when you say businessowner, as you and I were kind of
talking about leading up tothis show and conversations, whether
you're overseeing 13,000people as a pastor or you're part
of a management team of acompany, or you have a vision for
(05:38):
starting a business or justleading a family, how do you lead?
How do you lead?
Well, and it doesn't matter ifit's members of a congregation, employees,
customers, I think you havingkind of both of those dual roles
will help somebody regardlessof where they're coming from today.
Go.
Okay, I may not understand itas a pastor, but when you say business
owner, now you're speaking mylanguage because I want to be the
(05:59):
best business owner possible.
So you said, you know, youwanted to talk about your journey,
being 61, where you've comefrom today, where, where's a good
starting point?
Where do you want to start?
Well, let, let's just brieflygo back to, to childhood and then
we'll move pretty quick intomy first real job.
How's that sound?
(06:20):
Don't worry, this isn't a fiveday podcast.
When he says we're going tostart a childhood, he's going to
give you the sped up versionof his life.
Yeah, yeah.
Just, just come from a familythat was broken, experienced a lot
of dysfunction, an incrediblemother, incredible father, just,
you know, they didn't see eyeto eye.
(06:41):
So my mother was married fourtimes and, you know, not blaming
anything in my childhood basedon, you know, on that, but I would
say that as I went throughschool, I didn't focus on things
I should have focused on.
And so I didn't make goodplans in terms of setting up a career
(07:04):
path or a future.
And so when I graduated highschool, it was pretty much, this
is the end in terms of education.
Let's get a job, just afactory job or whatever I could find
and let's get, let's go to work.
So now here I am, 19 yearsold, I've got a job in a factory.
(07:28):
I'm Working with a bunch ofguys, a bunch of buddies that I'm
hanging out with through the week.
Just got married.
I really have no goals, I haveno future.
But what happened was duringthis process, this is where the faith
aspect came in.
So I'd been feeling like Ineeded to change, like that there
(07:51):
was something missing in my life.
I wasn't exactly sure what,but I continued to feel this, had
this feeling.
And eventually I came to thepoint of prayer and a prayer of surrender.
And so as a result of thatprayer, my life took a different
path and a different turn.
And so I wanted to quickly,you know, bring you through what
(08:15):
took place there.
So I started.
I had a desire after thatprayer, after what I would call salvation.
I had this desire to be successful.
I wanted to.
I wanted to raise a family, Iwanted to have a career path.
But again, I felt like I was stuck.
I'm stuck in a factory, don'tsee any way out.
(08:38):
We had been able to purchase arepoed double wide trailer that we're
living in.
And it was not much to lookat, just to be honest with you, but
it worked.
But through this path, throughthis journey, I started noticing
as I would apply principlesthat I would read in the Bible, that
it was like God started givingme a desire for success, a desire
(09:04):
to do better.
And so what happened was acouple job changes.
I ended up employed for thecity of Maryville, which is city
government, basically lowlevel position, started there reading
meters.
I was the guy that would sliparound the back of your yard and
(09:24):
the dogs would chase me away.
And so I did that for a yearor so.
But what happened, Steve, wasI was not the person that would come
in and complain about the jobor if it was raining out or it was
too hot.
It's like, come on, let's go,let's do it.
And as a result, I noticedthat my boss was drawn.
(09:45):
You know, he liked my work ethic.
And as soon as a promotion wasavailable, I was promoted.
And over the next 19 years,there was multiple promotions until
the point came that I was overan entire department.
And as a result of that, therewas employees that under me that
(10:05):
required, you know, a degreeor degrees.
And so God had just reallyelevated me up.
And so we were talking aboutthe one big thing.
What I noticed in my life, Ifelt like it was just doing a lot
of the little things, right?
You know, as far as getting inthere and working and doing the extra
and not complaining.
And as a result, I noticedthat, man, you know, I'm doing alright,
(10:29):
doing pretty well.
And so 19 years brought me tothe point where I wanted to do even
more.
You know, it was good pay, Imade good money, but I wanted to
make more.
I'm money motivated.
I wanted to make more money.
I wanted to have a good familyfor my, my wife and for my two sons
at the time.
So we started a business andit was a car business.
(10:53):
I'd always been fascinatedwith automobiles.
I always loved them.
And so I thought, you know,let's start this little business.
Well, what happened as aresult of that?
It started taking off and itstarted growing and it started developing.
So now I'm working two jobsmanaging the business and about two
(11:13):
years in, year and a half, twoyears in.
Steve the business now ismaking four times the money that
the city government's paying me.
So it's like it's not makingsense for me to go and become a manager
or be a manager for city government.
I need to go ahead and investmore time into this dealership.
(11:35):
And so anyway, that's just ina nutshell how I ended up in and
opened up a small business.
Let's take a quick break tohear a word from your sponsor.
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financial planner, then Seedis here for you.
(11:57):
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(12:17):
and the best part, you canschedule a free consultation to find
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Well, and I think I want toback up because I think sometimes
we hear things in people'sstories and we just, oh, that.
You know, I get that your momhad been married four times and with
you and your brothers and youknow, any other siblings, that's
(12:40):
four different men enteringyour life as authority figures.
And I think, you know, for usthat have never come from a divorced
or broken family, it's hardenough trying to make it as a teen
growing up when you hadmothers and fathers that loved you.
But when you come frombrokenness, not that you get a pass
in life, but I think a lot ofpeople, it's easy to lean into that
(13:01):
of, well, I didn't have theupbringing, people can make excuses.
I think what's cool about yourstory is the two takeaways is you
came from brokenness and we'restill able to find good in all of
that by doing a lot of smallthings, but also when you're in your
30s and 40s.
Today the world is going sofast and our and our time clock has
sped up that we believe thingsshould be happening faster.
(13:23):
I wonder how many of us, ifyou made an offer that for 19 years
you could do something to getto the place that God is calling
you to, how many of us wouldaccept that challenge?
Because 19 years in today'stimeline seems like a forever.
You know, we want to work ajob for a year or be in a home in
a year before we upgrade.
We want to be promoted quickly.
So to know that you spent 19years faithfully doing small things
(13:47):
without complaining, withoutmaking excuses and this led to promotion
after promotion that is in along time frame.
Take your age as you listen tothis episode, add 19 years and say
if for starting today, Godsaid 19 years from now, I'm going
to open a door of opportunityfor you.
How many of us would say yeah,I have the patience to wait for that?
Versus gosh, it feels likethese last two years have been a
(14:09):
lifetime or decades.
And so I think what's so coolabout your story is if we just look
at you today, on the surfaceyou look very successful leading
13,000 people as a pastormulti site campuses.
But to know kind of, I don'twant to say humble roots in a disrespectful
way but the humbleness ofwhere it started and working up and
you know, I think starting thebusiness when you have to make these
(14:31):
big life decisions, you haveentrepreneurs that are listening
to this.
I recently had a friend onKristen who left her full time paying
job because she felt Godcalled her to leave, not to go to
ministry, but she had foundthat go by working with non profits
that she really had a gift forworking in consulting and she really
felt this call to just quither job and go off on her own without
a paycheck.
(14:51):
And so I think there arepeople that know there's, there's
maybe a different story thatthey should be taking or there's
more to their story but theydon't always know how to get to the
next level and they just kindof hope that today's going to be
a different day.
Has there been anything, Iknow you said it's a series of small
things, but has there been anyway that in your life has helped
(15:13):
you make decisions when Apromotion comes because that, that's.
Sometimes we get offeredpromotions and it's just not the
right fit, it's not the rightseason, but it sounds good.
How, how is that in your career?
Like, how have you and Conniebeen able to make decisions when
a promotion's come or new opportunity?
What is the thought process ordecision making process kind of been
(15:33):
for you over the years?
Yeah.
Well, first, it's generally scary.
You know, in the beginningit's like, okay, I'm going to be
taking a step of faith.
I don't know where this isgoing to end.
Whether it's promotion withcity government or it's an expansion
with the, the car dealership,if it's adding a new product line,
(15:55):
whatever it may be, it's scary.
And so I guess our decisionmaking or the process for Connie
and I is we've always tried togo to the Lord in prayer together
and try to have peace withwhatever decision we're making.
(16:15):
And if our stomachs arechurning and we feel nauseated, we
kind of take that as a signthat maybe this is not what the Lord
wants for us.
But through prayer we feelthat peace then.
Now we're ready to take thatnext step, whether it's again a job
promotion or whatever it may be.
(16:36):
And then what's next is that'stotally up to the Lord.
And it's never the same.
It's just like we're going tostep into this without a plan B.
Many times we all want to havea plan B.
And so I'm not a big fan ofplan B.
I think that when you feelgood with something, that you should
(16:59):
go all in 100% without eventhe idea or the thought of it failing.
And we know that some things fail.
But I believe that God willuse those things that fell as a tool
to help us re navigate or geton another path for success.
(17:22):
And so ours is prayer.
Trust in the Lord.
And then as we step into thatnew role now it's all in, no plan
B.
And we're going to give it ourbest effort, whatever that looks
like.
Whether it's the day I leftthe city of Maryland, I said, I'm
going all in with the cardealership at that point.
(17:43):
It's now I've trusted the cityfor a paycheck and now I'm depending
on people to come in and buyfor our paycheck.
It's a leap of faith.
And what I found is that Godallowed us to be successful even
(18:03):
though there was hard times inthe business.
Well, And I.
I think there's a gray area.
And probably people turn toyou as a pastor for guidance and
wisdom because they're tryingto make life decisions as an individual
or as a spouse, and the answerisn't always clear.
And I think that there is avery unique way in which God works
with us, that there's adifference between faith and foolishness.
(18:26):
Some people, when a decisionor an opportunity is presented to
them, they want every singledetail to be worked out before they
ever take a step of faith.
Oh, yeah, that's your almosttrying to not take faith at all and
just make sure it works.
But then there's people thatat the slightest indigestion, feel
it's God and just jump intosomething, which is foolishness,
saying, I felt God called meto do this.
(18:48):
And I think for many of us,even if faith isn't a part of your
life we're trying to navigate,how do I know if something really
is God?
Has there been anything in allof your years working in for the
city of Maryville, startingthe car dealership, and even now
in ministry that has eitherbeen a personal way that you look
at decision making or of thecountless people that come to you
(19:09):
for counseling?
And sometimes it's, again,we're not talking about evil or malicious
things.
Should I go do this?
It's just, should we buy a new home?
Should we relocate?
Should I take the job?
Should we have another child?
Should we adopt?
Should I do this thing?
These are all good things, butGod wants great for us.
(19:30):
What is that gray area betweenfoolishness and faith?
Has there been anything.
I know you said when yourstomach is upset, you know, it might
not be the right path, but isthere a certain.
Like, does God confirm thingsto you over and over again in certain
ways that's helped you andthat's what you tell people to look
for.
But what if you were justtalking to me, we weren't on a podcast,
and I said, pacer, I have anopportunity in front of me.
(19:51):
What do I do?
How do I know if this is God?
What.
What?
Could we help a listener who'strying to work through maybe a big
life decision right now?
Yeah, so.
So I.
The first thing that I want todo, I mean, prairies first and getting
that piece.
But now how do I know?
How do I really know if thisis what I should do?
(20:12):
Here's something that I wouldsuggest, and I use this is I try
to identify three people thatI have confidence in, that has some
experience in the area thatI'm Needing to.
Needing direction.
And so I try to identify threepeople and I go to them and I have
(20:34):
a conversation.
I lay out everything that, allthe information I can give them that
I have, and I get their feedback.
And I take those threeindividuals and I just shelf everything
that they tell me.
And so that's part of myprocess on moving forward.
(20:55):
The other part is what I'msaying is hearing from the Holy Spirit,
is the Holy Spirit giving medirection that's in alignment with
any of those three?
I think that's some of thethings that I do personally, and
it helps me because God usespeople, obviously, to speak into
(21:16):
your life.
He uses circumstances, but heuses people.
And I'm not saying that eachone of these individuals need to
be a pastor or not.
I'm just saying people withexperience in that field that you're
looking at, if it's finance, Imay come to you, Steve, and say,
(21:36):
hey, what do you think about this?
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
And I think what happens toois sometimes we open ourselves up
to maybe go to another person,and there's going to be people that
are your cheerleaders and inyour corner.
And it all depends on how youlay out a situation.
If you weren't a pastor and wewere just buddies, and I came to
you and I said, man, I'mhaving a really difficult time at
(21:56):
work.
I think I want a new opportunity.
My boss is just riding me.
You love me.
So you'd be like, man, gochase your dreams.
Go take that job.
Which sounds like wisdom,counsel, but really you just love
me and you want.
You want to do what's right.
I think when you say thesethree people, these are going to
be three kind of unemotionalpeople of wisdom that aren't just
going to listen to the emotionwhich is coming through, but really
(22:18):
listen to maybe what is Godsaying to them and provide feedback
to you.
Because I think so manypeople, they.
They feel like faith may notbe going to other people.
Like, this is somethingbetween me and the Lord.
I got to figure out.
You know, I've had this thingweighing on my heart.
Should I go on a missions trip?
Should I adopt?
Should we have more kids?
Should we be giving or tithing more?
(22:39):
Like, should we be doing things?
And sometimes we feel likegoing to others is a cop out because
we want to just hear from God.
And what I think is awesome tohear from you as a pastor is no,
I think you need to beselective as to who you go to.
But try to find three peoplebecause the first person you go to
might be exactly the answeryou're looking for.
And you'll make a decision.
The first person may be negative.
(23:00):
And now all of a sudden youfeel like, did I miss it?
Having three seems to bebalanced because then you're kind
of getting a, a blend of the three.
And so I hope that inspires orencourages somebody out there today.
That's a simple thing to do,to want to listen to the Holy Spirit,
but find three people thatmight be able to help you.
So then Pacer, in your worldyou were, you were turning it into.
(23:21):
And thank you for, for those listening.
Thank you for just.
My brain goes a mile a minute.
I got a buddy Eric who's like,how do you think of these questions
in real time?
You try not to get in the way,but I always want to make sure it's
impactful.
You had worked for 19 years,City of Maryville, started off then
into the car dealership.
And we started off by sayingyou, you manage, you know, or oversee
(23:41):
a multi site campus.
People are probably startedsaying, well, where did the pastor
come in?
So, so what was that?
Like you're now off, you know,running these dealerships.
You, you know, God's hand ison it.
But then you ended up in ministry.
What, what was kind of that transition?
How did that even come about?
And you wouldn't think,typically somebody who's overseeing
(24:01):
a car, car lot, family cardealership would now be filling a
pulpit every Sunday, right?
Yeah, yeah.
They, you've probably heardthe two people to be aware of, be
careful of, is car salesmenand preachers.
Come on, Pace.
You got them both, baby, gotthem both covered.
So there you go, watch out for me.
You know, here's the thingwith, you know, my journey was not,
(24:25):
I didn't go to seminary, therewasn't a plan for me to be a pastor.
But I had a feeling in my 20sthat maybe that was at least a possibility.
And so again, that's in theback of my mind.
But what I would notice isthat many times when I was doing
something that didn't requirea lot of brain power, that there
(24:49):
was a lot of questions in mylife about am I doing what I'm supposed
to do?
Is there something else?
You know, and it was almostusually when I was mowing the yard,
you know, when you're mowingthe yard, all you have to do is turn
at the end of the yard.
You know, we come back.
So that was my, that was someof my time when I felt like that
(25:12):
I would think a lot and I'dquestion if.
If I'm really doing what I'msupposed to be doing.
So that was always there.
Now want to fast forward?
I'm 43 years old.
I've left the city, I'mrunning a business.
It's expanded, it's grown,it's doing extremely well.
(25:32):
Financially.
We're set.
I'm in my 40s and we can goanywhere we want to go.
We can take vacations, allinclusive trips to Hawaii and Mexico.
And we're doing it.
I mean, we've got the money,the resources are there.
But I still had that questionin my mind again.
When I'm doing something thatdoesn't require a lot of brain activity,
(25:55):
it was like, there's stillthat question, is this it?
Now you're doing wellfinancially, you have no debt.
So I spent some time and Ifelt like the Lord was really tugging
at my heart, that this wasn't it.
There was something else thatGod had allowed me to start the business
(26:17):
to be a tool for ministry,which I'm a big fan of, marketplace
ministry.
I think.
I think that every Christianbusiness owner should realize that
they're called into that arenafor a purpose, and it's to expand
the kingdom in whatever levelthat looks like in their industry.
(26:37):
So through that prayer, Godstarted really showing me that this,
you need to be pastoring a church.
This is your call, this isyour purpose.
So I made a decision.
My wife and I made a decisionthat we laid out several fleeces.
And basically what that meansis we were looking for signs saying,
(27:01):
God, if this is what you wantme to do, I want this to happen in
my life.
We did that probably at leastthree times, maybe more.
And honestly, Steve, it waslike every time I ask for a sign,
God did it.
And I'd sit back and I'dthink, there's no way, but I would
(27:22):
always be able to use the.
Well, that was a coincidence.
You know, that was just a coincidence.
And the last sign he gave me,and I'm not going to go into details
on what it was, but the lastsign, it was like, there's no way
that's a coincidence.
And so I said, okay, God, herewe go.
I don't know what the cardealership is going to look like.
Our sons are too young to runit, but I'm ready to say yes to the
(27:47):
ministry.
And so my wife and I, we said yes.
We got with our senior pastor,they planted us in a high school,
and we started January 7,2007, with 39 people that said, we
want to be part of this plant.
And so that was basically howit started.
It's just as simple as that.
(28:08):
Those were 39 used cars buyersthat you just put a pamphlet in their
car on their way out and theycame to join you at the church.
Well, I got to give a littlebit of background as to how you and
I met.
So I've, I've kind of sharedon the podcast before that.
Steph and I, we've been inEast Tennessee for four years and
through Covid we really feltthis tug on our heart to get away
from family and relocate.
(28:29):
We didn't really know anybodyin East Tennessee, but we just had
this strong kind of Abrahamcalling that it was time to go.
And so we had spent a year, wehad traveled to East Tennessee, spent
a week down here and reallyloved it.
At the height of COVID in NewYork, which was quarantined and locked
down.
And then I came down here andthought, what is this place?
And then we ended up sellingour home within a day and a half,
(28:51):
putting it on the market.
And family was like, what'sthe plan?
And we had no idea.
There was no plan B, as you said.
It was just, I don't know,being faithful.
House sold.
We ended up having to rent asix month rental on the other side
of town.
Family was like, what are youguys doing with four kids?
And we had scheduled a fiveweek trip to East Tennessee to an
Airbnb to come and recreatelife in East Tennessee as much as
(29:14):
possible.
Let's go to church on multiple occasions.
Let's go to grocery stores.
Let's not just have that oneweek, life is better here, let's
move mentality.
And we had visited, I don'tknow, three or four churches before
we ever found Rio, where we go now.
And they just weren't for us.
And so I grew up in what'scalled the Spirit filled church,
(29:34):
the Assemblies of God.
I went to Google and I said,are there any local Spirit filled
churches?
And Rio Revolution came up ona search result.
And it was a Saturday night,it was our last Sunday in town.
I said, honey, get ready,tomorrow we're going to go to an
all Spanish church.
And she said, I said, we'regoing to this church called Rio Revolution.
It's going to be awesome.
And I walked in and it wasn'tan all Hispanic church.
(29:56):
I wasn't disappointed.
But we had this service andyou were up there preaching about
stewardship.
But a lot of the message wasabout how you and Connie struggled
financially early in your 20sand you kept using this example of
this double wide trailer thatmight have had a hole in the ceiling
with tar.
And I remember sitting therethinking, gosh, this pastor's really
(30:16):
been through a lot financially.
He's really struggled in life.
And so here we are weeks later.
That was the only interactionI had with you.
We prayed before I left.
You were kind enough to comeout in front of a packed congregation
and pray with Steph and I,which was just a, a sign to us that
we were in the right place.
And I just thought it was sogracious of you to come out and pray
for us.
(30:36):
And so we went back to NewYork with no plan.
We needed to be out of ourhouse in the next 4ish weeks.
We had a deadline of when ourshort term lease was going to be
up.
We could not find a house tosave our life.
And one day I got a call fromour realtor who said, I don't know
why I didn't mention this toyou, but my aunt has been flipping
a house in the city of Maryville.
No one knows about it.
Do you want to see it?
(30:57):
So she.
This was literally the day Iprayed God, I threw out the fleece.
I need you to do something.
I need a sign.
And I got this phone call outof nowhere.
So we face time.
It ended up that the houseworked, but there was a two week
period where we had to find aplace to stay.
So when you're, when you'restates away and you don't know the
geography, you don't knowbusinesses, I started looking up,
you know, long term hotelrentals and thinking, bring my dog
(31:20):
and my four kids and my wifeand we'll go stay in this.
And randomly one day youemailed me and said, I was praying
for you.
What do you guys need right now?
And I remember I wrote back,we need a place to stay for two weeks.
And later that day you wroteback, I've got this place, you can
stay this cabin.
And I remember telling Steph,God, I think Pacer's gonna and Connie
(31:44):
open a door of a blessing.
And she said, but is this theplace with the hole in the ceiling?
Can you ask?
That's it.
So it was this moment of like,what a blessing, Lord, but where
in the world are we staying?
And we ended up actuallymoving down here.
We stayed not only for twoweeks, gracious enough where your
family is in one of yourcabins, but it ended up being eight
(32:05):
weeks because our took longerthan expected and we had contractors
Quit the job.
But it was such a sweet fastpass to getting to know you.
Because for eight weeks,Stephanie and I and our four kids
got to stay on the propertywith you and Connie and your kids
have dinner with you when we could.
And I got to see you behindthe scenes, which I think my prayer
was, God, if I'm going torelocate my family to a place I've
(32:28):
never been, I don't know anyof these pastors.
I got to know that whoever I'mgoing to align my family with as
a church, in a ministry, I gotto know that that pastor isn't there
to use and abuse us or, youknow, just we don't know them.
And so God gave me this sweetopportunity with you.
For eight weeks, you helped mepick up a couch on Facebook, marketplace
in a pickup truck.
(32:48):
We spent time together.
And I think people only seeyou behind a pulpit or behind a screen.
They know you, but I reallygot to know you.
And so when I think about man,it's one thing to be a pastor and
to have all the right wordsand be a spiritual mentor.
It's another thing to show upwhen people need you.
And for Steph and I, I justwant to personally thank you for
being for us an extension of afamily that we didn't have here.
(33:09):
And I think that's what'sbrought us so close together.
So I've seen firsthand thefruit of your ministry has been blessed,
because I think you didn't goto seminary, you didn't check off
the boxes.
You're just a man who I thinkloves the Lord, loves his family,
has tried to be obedient everystep of the way, has worked to never
cheat anybody.
And through a series of smalldecisions, being faithful, God has
opened these doors.
(33:30):
So that's the context for howyou and I met that.
So now Steph and I findourselves at Real Revolution.
It's a multi site campus withover 13, 000 members, but also streaming
into how many prisons at this point?
35.
Now can you talk about whatthat means, streaming into ministries,
how that, that, that impact isabsolutely incredible.
Yeah, yeah.
(33:51):
So, so the majority of ourmembers or listeners are in the prison.
And of course I was never incarcerated.
You know, so you would evenwant, I would wonder, you know, God,
why would you want to use usin those prisons?
But let me quickly tell youhow that came to pass.
(34:12):
So during COVID right beforeCOVID happened, we were, we'd been
talking to the local sheriffin Blount county about the possibility
of streaming our services intheir facility.
And he honestly was open tothe idea.
We were just trying to figureout how we were going to do it.
Well, not long after themeeting I had with the sheriff, new
(34:37):
technology came out in thejails where they added devices, sort
of like an iPad devices inevery cell in Blount county.
And so these devices weregoing to be used not only for, well,
for visitation primarily, sothey didn't have to take inmates
out of the cell, relocate theminto another classroom and then back
(34:58):
and forth.
And all the security that'sinvolved, that was one of the purposes
of it.
There were several educationand some different things.
So when I found out about it,I said, what about our church app?
Is there a possibility we getour church app on these devices?
And so just to make a longstory short, we got them on and it
was a huge blessing.
(35:19):
The sheriff okayed it in our,in our county, in Blount county.
And they said immediately theystarted seeing a difference in just
the atmosphere in the jail.
They were overcrowded.
They had about 600 inmates ina facility that's designed for 400.
And they were having a lot of,lot of problems.
(35:39):
But the sheriff gets back withus and said, man, thank you for what
you're doing.
It's making a tremendous difference.
The inmates are loving the worship.
They're loving having theaccess to your church services.
So that's where it started.
It started with one and thecost was $1,000 to be in that jail.
(36:03):
I asked our church, I said,are these people worth a thousand
dollar investment to be ableto hear the gospel every weekend?
And most of our church said,yes, they are worth it.
So we launched it.
Well, now it's having such animpact that the sheriff, we were
interested in some localcounties that butts up to the county
(36:26):
we live in.
And so we went to talk with them.
The sheriff in our county vouched.
He called their sheriffs,their sheriff and said, hey, it works.
It's great.
You should let them in.
And so that's how we got our start.
We started with one, then itwas two, then it was three, four,
five.
And then it's just continuedto grow.
(36:47):
And now we were at 34 untillast Sunday.
And we had a couple that movedfrom California that came up to me
and said, hey, how much doesit cost?
I said, It's 500amonth now toget in a jail.
They've lowered the price.
They said, well, now we have 35.
So we officially are at 35.
But these people are writingletters Every weekend they're being
(37:08):
saved, they're saying, hey, Ihad no hope, but now this gives me
hope.
So it's phenomenal.
Well, and Pacer, I think whatyou just said is the impact is tremendous,
but it doesn't just happenwithout buy in from all people involved.
And I think anytime you make abig paradigm shifting change, saying,
hey, this is important to usas church leadership, we want to
be in these jail cells.
(37:29):
Not that it's ever met withfriction, but anytime you're trying
to change the culture or whatwe value as an organization where,
look, we not only want topreach to those that don't feel they're
without hope, but we also wantto open our doors as a church that
when these men and women getout, we want them to know that there's
a home here.
And that takes seeing peoplethat look different than you showing
up on Sunday, you know, and,and just, you know, we're not going
(37:50):
to stick them in the back ofthe church like they are a part of
our family.
You have individuals that arelistening to this show today that
have families where they'retrying to shift the narrative that's
been around their family andtheir parents, the culture shift.
You got people that are partof businesses where maybe it's been
toxic or not an environmentand they're trying to shift the culture
in their work.
Has there been anything that,as you've been leading Rio, whether
(38:13):
it's through the incarcerationopportunity or just making changes
within the church, or evenjust back to your time when you were
at the dealership, when youtry to inject change, like what has
helped you not only castvision, but get other people, because
it takes people to do big things.
How do you, how do youconvince or how do you get people
on board with a vision when it hasn't?
(38:35):
When you only have one tablet,it's hard to imagine 35.
Like, how do we encourage thelistener out there today that knows
differences on the other sideof changes, but doesn't know how
to shift a mindset or culturaldynamic, whether it's in their personal
life or in their business?
Yeah, that's.
That's a great question.
You know, changing culturetakes time, obviously.
(38:58):
And so I don't think anyoneshould expect that they can change
the culture quickly.
But what you would need to doas a leader, you would need to talk
about what's coming, talkabout the change.
Don't shock anyone withsomething new, but make people aware
(39:18):
of what's coming.
And so I think that's in termsof this new culture as far as inviting
people who are incarceratedinto our jails, because honestly,
I think we're probably gettingsomewhere between probably close
to 10 inmates every weekendthat are first time visitors to our
church.
And so that's a lot of people.
(39:39):
It's not like one.
Occasionally, it's every weekend.
So what basically I did was Italked about it a lot before it happened.
You know, that this is what Isee happening.
Number one, I would referencewhat the Bible has to say about those
in prison.
You know, Jesus said that whenI was in prison, you visited me.
(40:01):
And then, you know, and thenthey said, when did we visit you,
Jesus?
And he said, when you visitedthe least of these.
So we talked a lot about thisand what's coming and tried to set
the tone not abruptly, but,but slowly.
And then when they startedcoming in, it was a culture change.
But the people, I think,received them well.
(40:23):
I mean, from the beginning,you would see, like I'll give you
an example, there's one guy inour church and he's a scientist,
he's over the national lab forOak Ridge, and he's in my life group.
And I asked him the question.
I said, so what do you thinkabout these individuals who are incarcerated
coming into our church?
I would see them out in frontand I was just curious from a professional
(40:46):
individual, what do you think?
And he said, I love it.
He said, we love it.
I think it's great.
So what I noticed, Steve, isthat more people were accepting.
And I think a lot of it wasbecause we talked about it, we continue
to talk about it, and we givethe wins.
When you share a win, thenpeople can buy in.
(41:08):
And I think they're more aptto culture change.
But culture is always changingin your business, in life, especially
in the church world.
And sometimes it's gradual,but sometimes, I'll tell you, culture
changed quickly in our churchin 2020 because what happened when
(41:29):
Covid hit, a lot of peoplestarted staying home and watching
the services live stream, andit opened up a lot of seats.
But in our particular area, wehad individuals moving in just like
yourself from upstate New Yorkand from California and from different
regions.
So what happened is that ourculture changed quickly because we
(41:54):
had.
I'm going to throw this number out.
Maybe half of our congregationcame from other regions.
They came from California,from New York, and they didn't have
the same culture.
There's a different culture there.
And so what I've noticed as apastor is that, number one, be aware
(42:15):
when culture is changing andif it's not a good thing, then start
talking about what you wouldlike for it to be.
And I'm saying this as abusiness owner or whatever, and.
But, but start talking about it.
Talk about the winds.
And maybe some other time wecan talk about some of the culture
(42:36):
change that I've noticed justfrom people coming from different
regions of America.
It's not from differentcountries, it's from the United States.
But the culture is differenton the west coast than it is the
east coast or up north versusdown South.
And so when that happened,quickly, it's like we're a different
church in terms of our culture.
And it's not a bad thing.
(42:57):
It's just different.
Yeah.
And I think we all strugglewith the idea of different.
But you said the idea of winsor stacking wins.
I think when you say, hey,this is the vision I have for our
church or for my business orfor our family.
When things start small and inseed form, it's really hard to truly
appreciate the fruit of theoak tree down the road.
But when you live stream inevery Sunday, every Sunday, every
(43:19):
Sunday, and people like, yeah,we do that thing.
But then a human being comesas a result of that, and it's like,
oh, like this is actuallymaking a difference.
That win carries such momentumbecause you feel like we're actually
doing it.
And I think for so many of usthat are in our 30s and 40s, we're.
We're planting seeds all thetime, and we're not yet at the point
that you're seeing the fruitright away.
(43:39):
But when you get to get thosewins, whether it's, you know, you've
been saving a little bit ofmoney every month, and now all of
a sudden you're at a placewhere you can do something.
It's a different season oflife in learning how to accept that.
And so I'd love to invite youback at some time because I think,
you know, there would be agreat dynamic for us to get into.
But one of the things that Iwant to do is always be mindful for
you as a listener that youonly have so much time.
(44:01):
I want to make sure in theshow notes that we put links for
contact information for RioRevolution if you ever, because there
are some amazing thingshappening here in East Tennessee.
If you got questions, get intouch with Pacer, get in touch with
Rio Live Stream.
If you don't have a homechurch, but you have such a cool,
cool story between the dualrole of being both in the sacred
(44:21):
and the secular.
And if I think I can, youknow, summarize our entire time together.
It's not necessarily one bigthing that you have to take away.
It's a series of smalldecisions stacked up on top of each
other and being faithful, evenwhen the manifestation of the dream
doesn't happen quickly.
It might take 19 years, itmight take longer.
The the results that I've seenin your life are inspiring to so
(44:44):
many of us that I think areasking God, God, when is the next
chapter?
When is it going to get easier?
It may never get easier, andthat's the spoiler.
But the challenge you're goingto be stronger for because you're
going to be more endurance onyour end.
Don't, don't take for grantedthe things that you might be struggling
with today might be the thingsthat God is allowing you to go through
(45:04):
that are shaping yourcharacter and revealing parts of
him that he wants you to know.
So, Pacer, I want to thank youfor being a guest on the One Big
Thing podcast.
This has been a lot of fun.
Anytime mentor in your life,you want to make sure you honor your
time, but we'll put theinformation in there.
And for those that are friendsand family, I hope you guys will
check out other episodes ofthe One Big Thing.
I have people from allbackgrounds, whether it's faith,
(45:26):
you know, they didn't grow upin faith.
They're in business, they'rein sports, in the NFL.
So it's just fun to hearpeople's stories and things they've
gone through.
So, as always, thank you forbeing my guest on the One Big Thing
podcast.
Loved it, enjoyed it.
Thank you.
Steve, thanks for checking outmy show.
If you enjoyed this episode,I'd love for you to write a review
or drop a comment whereveryou're listening or watching.
(45:46):
And be sure to stay connected.
Did you know you can subscribeto my YouTube channel, which is Eve
CampbellPR?
That's Steve Campbell, PR andI'm a real person who's reachable.
You can find me on all mysocials and connect with me.
If you have topics or guestsyou'd love to hear from, let me know.
But thanks for being a part ofthis channel.
Journey with me and until nexttime, enjoy other episodes of the
(46:08):
One Big Thing podcast.
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