October 29, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode, Heidi Heitkamp and Joel Heitkamp host Nick Levendofsky, the Kansas Farmers Union Executive Director. Together, they discuss challenges facing rural America, especially farmers and ranchers.
Listen to this episode to learn more about trade tensions, changing markets, and how government aid policies are affecting the livelihoods of those in agriculture and rural communities.
Heidi and Joel share practical insights on political shifts, infrastructure funding, and community support for food banks, exploring how rural voices can regain confidence and hope.
Join us on The Hot Dish every week, where we serve up hearty conversations that resonate with every corner of the country.
The Hot Dish is brought to you by the One Country Project, making sure the voices of the rest of us are heard in Washington. To learn more, visit https://onecountryproject.org or find us at https://onecountryproject.substack.com/.
- (00:00) - Hosts Heidi and Joel Heitkamp start their conversation with Nick Levendofsky debating the trade damage with China
- (07:01) - Nick Levendofsky discusses how farmers are facing huge market losses right now
- (13:43) - Heidi and Joel debate uncertainty around the Farm Bill and Farmer Aid with Nick Levendofsky
- (21:27) - Joel and Heidi highlight how it seems Democrats are abandoning Rural America
- (31:58) - Nick and Joel agree on how important calling BS is to the Rural ethic
- (34:57) - Joel and Heidi discuss the cattle farmers and Senate clash with Nick
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to the Hot Dish, comfort food for middle America. I'm Heidi
Heitkamp. And I'm Joel Heikamp. You know what? We're happy we get a chance
to visit with Nick Levendofski. Nick is, he's
the boss when it comes to the Kansas Farmers Union. He's the Executive Director,
grew up on a farm in north central Kansas. We're talking wheat,
sorghum, soybeans, alfalfa, cattle. Which means he never got to
(00:28):
even go on a date. There was so much work to do. Nick,
good to have you on the Hot Dish. How you been? It's good to be
here, Joel. And I'm just glad we got out of dairying when I was 3,
because that would have really kept me at home. Yeah, so
here's the big question. Because you're younger than both Heidi and I,
did you ever have to throw square bales, small bales?
(00:51):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. We usually put up our last cutting of
alfalfa into small squares, and my grandpa was good
at cranking that baler down. You know, we got every ounce of hay off
of that field into those pails. So, yeah, lots of hay.
And alfalfa is so light. I mean, you know, it doesn't weigh anything.
Yeah, not at all. Not at all. So well, okay,
(01:14):
were they feed cattle or were they dairy cattle? So we, we moved
from dairy in '88 into beef cattle. Yeah. Yeah. You
never even got to play football. You had to milk cows all the time. Did
you? Oh, my dad did. My dad did all,
you know, and he did get to wrestle because he had those good,
you know, good forearms. But. So,
(01:36):
yeah, Nick, all your soybean problems have gone away. It's going to
be the shortest interview in the world. You know, all,
all the Kansas Farmers Union soybean problems have gone away
because apparently Donald Trump and
Mr. Bessant, who farms in North Dakota - not - have said
the soybean problems are going away. Give me your take on that. Well, you
(02:00):
know, I, I watch the Sunday morning shows just like you all did, and,
and I heard this, and it's like, well, I'll believe it when I
see it. I, I think this is too far gone. I
think the damage that has been done to our trade relationship with
China is maybe
not irreversible, but, boy,
(02:22):
the damage that's been done, I think is going to take a long time to
recover from. And, and maybe they'll buy some soybeans. Maybe
they'll commit to. I don't know how much, but the,
the amount of money that they have invested in Argentina
and Brazil in the infrastructure. You know,
they, they're building this transcontinental railroad so that they can
(02:44):
avoid a 3,000 mile, you know, shipping issue. You know,
they're going to get their money's worth. That's where they've been putting all of
their money since the last time we did this in 2018. So why
wouldn't they? Heidi, you said all along it's loss of market
that worries you the most. Well, yeah. I mean, long term, we
survived somehow. The first trade war, they came
(03:08):
back, didn't buy as much. And one of the things that
I remember from that period of time is that they used to
feed their hogs a lot of very
rich protein. They started understanding that they could
actually produce the same quality pork with much less
input. So we saw a reduction. But, you know, China's,
(03:30):
China's in a - In a war
for economic dominance against the United States. And they're not going to be
dependent on their food supply from our country. And so to
disrupt the relationship just exacerbated and
accelerated. I think that relationship. And a lot of people maybe
listening would say, oh, China needs US. Less than
(03:52):
3% of China's GDP is American exports,
is exports to the United States. And so everybody who
wants to believe that, you know, China can't survive without the United
States, you need to read a little bit more. So, Nick,
what are they saying at the Cenex? I mean, okay, you pull in, you need
your cup of coffee, and you're sitting around BS-ing with the boys. I
(04:13):
mean, what are they telling you? Well, I'll tell you, lately
it's been tough to find a farmer that's really willing to talk about it,
mainly because we're in the middle of harvest. The only, the only
reprieve we've had is we've got a little rain here the last couple days. And
I was at a local church harvest festival that they always
have every year, and had a couple conversations with some
(04:36):
folks from the area, and folks are anxious. I mean,
farmers are very nervous about this. And then you throw
in the factor of, now we're going to start shipping in more
Argentine beef. And, boy, that really got
everybody's attention. I mean, you talk about a way to bring
everybody and their dog together around an issue. This
(04:57):
is that. That did it. That announcement the other day that he made
on Air Force One saying that, you know, ranchers don't understand.
Well, you know, tell us more, Donald. You know, tell us what you know
about raising cattle and cattle markets and those kinds of things.
Well, and Heidi, he doubled down on it. Yeah, I mean,
it wasn't like he put his foot in his mouth, which he did
(05:21):
because you just can't admit he made a mistake. I mean, he doubled down on
it. This is a political calculation. Okay. He's
basically said, I have farmers no matter what, and I'm
going to shovel some money out the door and make everybody happy.
And you know what? You know, when you, Joel, you talk to farmers and
Nick, you talk to farmers and I talk to farmers and a lot of
(05:42):
them are not willing to abandon Donald Trump. But guess who's abandoning
Donald Trump? Consumers. Ranchers. Consumers who are - Well, and ranchers. But
I'm talking about consumers. What is he worried about right now? He's
worried about $7 a pound hamburger. And
so he thinks that this is going to solve the problem and reduce
costs at the grocery store, which
(06:05):
shows how naive he is actually. But that's what he's
speaking to. He's decided, look, you know, I'm going
to take rural America for granted because they're with me no matter what. Which
has always been the danger of a one party rural America.
They're with me no matter what. So, know, forget them. I don't need to make
them happy. I need to figure out how I'm going to reduce grocery
(06:28):
costs. Well, and that's why I asked you the question. I mean,
can he take farmers for granted? Oh, I think so.
I think so. He got their votes a year ago. That's all he needed.
He doesn't need anything else at this point. And you know, the, the
paltry economic aid that they're looking at throwing out right
now, they are saying around $3 billion.
(06:51):
That's money that was already allocated, that was money that was already
set aside for crop insurance. So they're just repackaging
it and calling it economic aid. But how far can
$3 billion go when you're looking at the loss of soybean markets, when
you're looking at the potential loss on beef markets,
you know, those kinds of things, Farmers are looking at this situation and
(07:13):
in many cases there are co ops all across the country and I've
heard of some here in Kansas where in particular grain
sorghum, they don't want it. They don't want to take it because
there's no market for it. You know, the Food for Peace program under
USAID was our major buyer for grain
sorghum. We're one of the largest producers of grain sorghum in the country, here
(07:35):
in Kansas. And now they're the, the one guy that I've talked
to on this said it may have to go into pet food.
You know, that's - That's the option we're looking at. Or biodiesel or something
to that effect. So, yeah, farmers are very, very
nervous about what's, what's coming, what's been happening, all
of that. Nick, can I ask you. You know, the bank of
(07:57):
North Dakota, which is a unique institution to North Dakota, is
already putting together a relief package for farmers
because they're hearing from their bankers about stress. What are you hearing in
Kansas? And maybe just across the corn and
be belt. What. What are you hearing about
bankruptcies and about foreclosures?
(08:20):
Well, I, I've got a number of banker friends that I visit with regularly,
and one in particular told me here very recently that the
particular bank he's working with will not loan any money on
anything but land right now. So if you're looking at buying
cattle, there's, that's a no. If you're looking at your operating
loan, that's a no. If you're looking at input costs, that's a
(08:42):
no. And I don't know too many farmers right
now that are chomping at the bit to buy land unless they're already
pretty well established or have some outside backing
investors, that kind of thing. Some of the other
bankers in the area, you can just tell when you walk in the
bank lobby, it's quiet.
(09:05):
They're not saying a whole lot about what's going on. And what they do
say, it's pretty guarded. I was visiting with, with
our banker in Scandia, Kansas, here just the other day, and, and
he's been riding in the combine with his brothers who farm. And he
said, you know, the, the yields are great. Everything looks good. And,
and, you know, you go to the elevator and you see the piles of grain
(09:27):
that are building up because they're running out of room. The elevators
are full. And now we're just piling it up on the ground like
we're used to. We see that. But even more so this year,
the problem is the numbers aren't there as far as price.
It's a bumper crop with bummer price. But when it comes to buying
land, Heidi, there is one soybean farmer that
(09:49):
got a lot of attention on the shows this weekend that's bought up a
lot of land here in our home state, North Dakota.
Oh, yes, the Secretary of Treasury wanted everybody to
feel sorry for him because he's a soybean farmer,
too. So he feels the pain. Number one, he's worth half a
(10:10):
billion dollars. Number two, I want to know if he's actually
reduced cash rent prices for his land since he
thinks he's feeling the pain. Nick, this was
a huge, huge misstep. And of course,
I would say, and putting on my partisan hat, if I had been the
Democratic Party in any of these places, I would have
(10:31):
absolutely. You know, it's insult to injury.
It's insult to injury for a landlord to complain
and try and color himself as a soybean farmer.
I'm reminded of the late Ann Richards quote, when she spoke
of George Bush, that he was born with a silver foot in his
mouth. And that that is exactly what
(10:54):
I saw the other day when I was watching the Sunday morning shows. And it's
just like, you've got to be kidding me. You know, what, what do you have
in common with somebody who's been doing this their entire
life, you know, for multiple generations?
He's obviously an investor. He's invested in this,
and it just, it doesn't add up. I'm sorry,
(11:17):
but I have a hard time feeling sorry for the, for him o that. And
in our state, Heid, and I think all over the Midwest, people don't like
folks from the east or west coast owning the farmland. Yeah, in
North Dakota, we, we've actually passed laws over whether or not corporations
can buy farmland. And so now
we've got Bill Gates, you know, we've got. We've got all
(11:40):
of these people claiming to be soybean farmers who. I don't know if they know
the difference between an air drill and a grain cart. I
mean, I really don't. And, Heidi, you mentioned
that if you had the opportunity, you would pound that.
I go back to the question that I asked Nick earlier, which
(12:00):
is, what's the reaction from farmers? They didn't
push back on it a lot. I mean, they didn't. Why?
I think that there is a natural inclination, Joel,
to basically
stick with the President. You voted for him, yet
(12:23):
you then go back to all the reasons why you think the Democratic Party
is bad, whether that's cultural or whether it's environmental regulation,
whatever that is. And they say, we're going, you know, he cares about
us. Yes, he's doing things that hurt us,
but he cares about us. And it is, I mean, I
just keep thinking if somebody with a different party label were
(12:45):
doing any of these things and I was still in the Senate, I would have
to hire five more people to answer the phone. And so shame on
American farmers for being taken for granted. Shame on American farmers
and ranchers for letting him do this without any political
pain. Because the next time around, there you mean
- Number one, and Nick, we should talk a little bit about this, that the
(13:07):
kind of historic relationship we've had between food
security and the Farm Bill. We don't have a Farm
Bill. It's good. Parts of the Farm Bill are going to have to be extended
by the end of the year. That's going to be a really tough lift because
it's going to take 60 votes and we've lost trust.
And so, you know, I don't know at what point
(13:29):
it's, you know, the straw that breaks the camel's back, but I don't think
we've seen it. And I know we have a lot of listeners who say, when
is that going to happen? Yeah, I don't think it's happened yet.
Yeah, I really thought it was good. Oh, sorry, Joel. Go. Yeah, I mean, but
I would add to that we don't have a Farm Bill yet, but
it's rule of law, right? I mean, that would be in law. That'd
(13:52):
be in place. This Administration doesn't care about that. I
mean, Nick, they do what they want to do. If they want to send
soybean farmers money and make them smile, they're going to do it. If they want
to knock over the east wing of the White House, they just go ahead and
do it. I mean, so, yeah, there may be no farm bill,
but he has a real history from Trump 1.0
(14:14):
of sending money out to farmers. And I think the farmers that I
live with are counting on that. I think they are. I think they
expect it. You know, there's only, what, one and a half to
2% of the population is involved in production
agriculture. So, yeah, it's, it's so few
of our population that, that feed, and clothe, and
(14:36):
fuel the world, basically. So it's,
it is a little bit different than any other industry. It truly is.
But this idea that we should be reliant on these,
you know, government checks is ridiculous. Farmers want trade,
they don't want aid, they don't want checks handed out. But it's not like
they're going to turn them away either when they get...I mean, I remember in
(14:58):
2018 when this all went down and my dad got his check for his
soybeans and I asked him, I said, well, where did that check go?
You know, what did you do with that? And he said, well, I had to
put a transmission in my 25 year old tractor, it went out, had
to put a transmission in. So I said, well, what did that cost? He said,
it took the whole check. Wow. So what did you, what did you gain?
(15:19):
You know, and, and that's the, the whole point here.
It's like, what are we gaining? We still don't have a soybean market.
And yet you've got a 25 year old tractor with a new transmission
in it. You never gained anything. And, and I think that's
the, I think that's the mindset that we've got to try to break into
and be like, folks, we're not gaining here this long term
(15:42):
pain for, or this short term pain for long term gain.
My question is, what is the long term gain? What are
we gaining? And I don't think anybody knows. Well, and
Heidi, a good friend of ours, I'm going to say his name, Dean Meyer
from out west. We've been talking a lot on my show about the
difference between ranchers and farmers. Everybody assumes they're
(16:04):
the same people. They're not, they're not at all. Ranchers
are libertarians. Farmers are just as, as
Nick just described them. But he gave me some numbers, you guys. I
want to run over them. Beef is up 355%
since 1980. Now keep this
in mind. This is 1980 to now. Tractors up
(16:25):
1,180%. Balerr's
up 550%. Pickups up 847%.
Coffee, 775%. Doritos - Well,
I think you know where I'm going to go there. My point is this:
as a rancher, he's pissed off and he's mad because
his product that he raises and provides, ground beef,
(16:48):
is being portrayed as just skyrocketing and
the ranchers are making too much money by the President. I mean,
Heidi, he's mad. He's really mad.
He's not somebody you want to be mad.
No, but, but it's absolutely true. And
finally, they're getting a decent price. And it's cyclical. And we all
(17:09):
know it's cyclical. They're getting a decent price for feeder
cattle, you know, kind of, you know, record
amounts for a short period of time. And the first thing that happens
is they say, oh, well, we can't have that. We've got to, we've got
to import beef from someplace else. Because number
one, that's a twofer. Because I like this guy from
(17:31):
Venezuela, he's one. Or yeah, Venezuela, he's one of
Argentina. He's one of my favorite people. So I'm going
to, you know, import beef when we don't know how that
beef is raised. And you know, this. I was a longtime
advocate for, you know, country of origin labeling,
still am, you know, because people want to buy American beef. But the other
(17:53):
point is, and I want to, you know, kind of connect the dots to
the consumer. At the same time, he has decided he, he's
going to send a bunch of money out in middle of this shutdown, but
he's not gonna help people who need food assistance. And so if he
really wanted to help people who are struggling with their food budget, he
certainly wouldn't. He'd be sitting down, negotiating with the Democrats and opening
(18:16):
up government. But that's not where he's at because they don't wanna
portray anybody who needs food assistance as anything other than a
freeloader. And we all know that the vast majority of people are getting
that subsidy and getting that help, you know, and, you
know, I don't know how you can defend farmers
getting help and you can't think about how
(18:38):
families, family of four struggling to make ends meet on a food
budget, who both are working sometimes 2, 3 jobs to make
ends meet, isn't, isn't entitled in these
times to get food assistance. Yeah, could I tag
onto that real quick? Yeah, go ahead, Nick. So I called
our Republic County Kansas Food Bank this morning. We've got
(19:00):
our Farmers Union County meeting tonight. And one thing
I like to do at our meeting, excuse me, is pass the hat
so that we can give to a local organization in need. So tonight we're going
to give, you know, whatever we collect after our expenses are paid
for the meeting and give that to the food bank. But
I talked to her and she said they are preparing for an
(19:23):
influx of, of assistance. I
talked to both of our schools. We have two school districts in our county.
Over half of the kids in our schools are on free and reduced
meals. So that tells me we've got a
problem here and it's going to get worse. After November 1st,
there's going to be a lot more folks in need and you know, the
(19:45):
challenges that we're seeing. I talked to a guy yesterday who said that the
food bank line in his community, now he lives in a, in a more
urban area, was blocks long, you know,
over the weekend. So it's coming. We've got to be
prepared for it and we've got to do everything we can. If we can't
rely on the government to step in and do it, we're going to have to
(20:06):
do it ourselves. We're going to have to give more, we're going to have to
donate more non-perishable items or just flat out cash.
And that's where we're at. And it's scary and
it's sad and it's shameful. Guys, this morning on
my radio show, I had the Great Plains Food Bank on, which is
exactly what you two are making reference to. They go all over my
(20:29):
home state, every one of the towns, and deliver food to people,
provide a place that people can go to for food. They're looking for money,
they're looking for just what you're going to do, Nick. You can drop
off all the cans of things you want and they'll be happy to take them,
but they need money because they know the specific needs they have. And, and
they are, it's one of those turn the microphone off
(20:52):
and then you really get a window. And it isn't, I don't want to say
they're partisan. That wasn't it at all. They were just sick to their stomach.
I mean, they're scared. They're, they're really, really scared. And so
I'm going to ask both of you the same question, which is we, we
laid out the problem. We laid out what's going on. We laid out what we
know to be true because it is true. Why the hell can't a
(21:14):
Democrat win in any of these states? I mean, I'm going to throw that to
you, Nick. I mean, if, if these people are as bad at
governing as what we know them to be today, why can't a
Democrat win? You know, I've, I've wondered that myself.
And in all the years that I've been involved in this, involved in this work,
not just through Farmers Union, but, you know, through other, you know,
(21:36):
entities and the Democratic Party. I remember the days
of Byron Dorgan and Kent Conrad and Tom Daschle and Heidi
Heitkamp, you know, and they would come to Farmers Union
fly ins or Farmers Union conventions. And
you know, we all cheered him on, we all supported him.
And now everything has shifted. I mean, I can't speak to it from Kansas
(21:58):
because we, you know, when we get together as Democrats, we can meet up
at a, in a phone booth most of the time. But, but the
reality is that, you know, the Democratic
Party has kind of turned its back on rural America.
And, and I hate that I remember seeing in my
grandparents's home pictures of JFK and fdr,
(22:21):
you know, right up next to the picture of the Last Supper, you know, good,
good Irish Polish Catholics. But, you know,
as time has gone on, we've. We've shifted. And, you
know, whether that society has shifted or the party has shifted,
I think you could probably blame both. But we've got to figure out
how to get back out into rural America and
(22:44):
get that message out there that there is an alternative and
that we have more in common than we do different.
Heidi, why can't we get you elected again? You did
a hell of a job. Why can't we get you elected again? You know, I
think that so many of these races have become nationalized. And
so I tell a story, and it's a true story about a reporter.
(23:07):
She was out in North Dakota trying to figure out what was going
on in the race in 18, and she ran into a
guy who was a corn grower and he just, oh, effusive,
effusive in his praise for what I had done for the corn growers.
You know, kind of. We gave her a national award.
And when we go to Washington, she's the most interesting
(23:30):
and prepared of all the people. And that's kind of what I thought. I
thought, oh, if I get prepared and I actually deliver. And so this
person said, so you're going to vote for her? And he goes, oh, no, she's
a Democrat. And it is the Democratic brand. It's not the
individuals, it is the Democratic brand. And that these
races have become nationalized. And, you know, I think the
(23:51):
only thing that is going to bring it back is with a message that
speaks to, you know, a broader group of people than
just the urban elites and the Democrats. You know,
as much as you would holler about waters of the United States and how that
was creating uncertainty, here's a great example. I always use the waters of the
United States as an example because so many of the people inside the
(24:13):
Beltway, well, you, you know, we can't give up any jurisdiction under
the Clean Water Act. And I would put up a picture, and North Dakota still
has a flyway, you know, tons of one acre, two acre
wetlands, you know, and I would point
at it, you know, when I would be in hearings, and I say, is that
waters of the United States not connected to anything? And the
(24:35):
answer was never yes or no. It was maybe. And I thought that's almost the
worst answer. And so when people don't respond
to legitimate concerns about overreach,
they don't respond to legitimate concerns about identity
politics that don't match how people believe
the world should be, you know, and
(24:58):
you don't show up and all the good
Democrats, as we used to say in rural areas, have just shut their
mouth. They're not out there defending. They're not sitting at the coffee table. I
mean, Joel, you have to do it every day because that's what you do.
But, you know, people silently are cheering you on,
but they're not going down to the coffee shop, you know, kind of
(25:20):
taking on the, the hard right or the maga. The maga
Republicans. They're just not. But I'm going to throw this at you, Nick, because
this, to me, is exactly what Heidi and you are getting at. But
I think it's the best example. I'm going to ask you a question.
What's the gravel road like in front of your farm?
It's a mess right now. We've had rain the last couple
(25:43):
of days, and it's tore up. But
here's my point. During harvest, it's usually tore up. But my point is
the Biden Administration passed an
Infrastructure Bill. Nothing more important to rural
America than to have paved roads, to have good township
roads, to have good county roads, to have good state
(26:05):
roads, farm to market roads. And the Democrats
never talked about it once in the campaign. Never once.
And. And that is what's important to rural
America, infrastructure, whether it be water, sewer, broadband.
I mean, Heidi, you fought like hell for these things. I mean,
but, Nick, in your state, this happened. And
(26:27):
the first thing that, that Trump did was lay claim to a lot of it.
Oh, yes. I don't know if farmers didn't get that or if we, the
Democrats, just did a crappy job of explaining it Next.
I think that it's all what you see on national
media and the loss of
local media and local media coverage and the
(26:50):
unwillingness of Democrats to go on. I mean, one of
the pieces of advice that I gave the incoming Secretary of
Agriculture was get a list of
radio stations across the country, talk radio,
radio stations, you know, ag radio stations,
and, you know, just randomly call them up, say, I want to visit about what
(27:13):
we're doing here at USDA. No, I mean,
you know, that's too much of a challenge, right,
to actually spend some time visiting with farmers about what the
goal is. And, you know, part of it is
neglect, but the other part is a failure to kind of see.
(27:34):
David Axelrod, who's a dear friend of mine, says it this way, and I think
it's just right. He said when Democrats approach rural America,
they approach him not as neighbors but as missionaries.
And the message that you hear all the time is, look what we've done for
you. That is not a winning message in rural America
because look what they've done for you! Produce food,
(27:57):
kind of raised their families, brought, brought
a vibrancy to the fabric of
America's culture. And, you know, they just,
I think it's the best way to describe Democratic attitudes in the
past towards the rural America.
I'm glad you brought that up, Heidi, because I have,
(28:20):
quote, unquote, advised a handful of candidates in this
upcoming election, both for U.S. Senate and Governor,
Democrats that are looking to run or have already said they're running,
and every one of them said, you know, we're going to go spend time in
western Kansas. We're going to go out there and spend a week. And that's like,
good. You need to, you need to get out there and you need to talk
(28:41):
to these folks. You need to do all of that. But most importantly,
you need to listen. All the talking in the world isn't going to do
you any favors because, you know, the majority of these folks that are running for
these seats are from Johnson County, Kansas, the richest county
in the state, Kansas City Kansas area. And
it, it's not unlike what was said earlier about Mr. Bessant and the east
(29:04):
and west coast landowners. The last thing that western Kansas
farmers and ranchers want is somebody from Johnson county coming
out to where they live and farm and ranch and tell them what they need
or here's what I'm going to do to help you. They need to listen
to those farmers and ranchers and rural citizens to understand
the challenges that they're dealing with so that they can tell them what is
(29:26):
needed out there and what is not, frankly. So my
hope is that that advice, you know, go somewhere, I don't know, we'll
see. But that's what I've been telling them all along. Yeah.
To me, the one thing the Democrats can't do is because and it goes
back to what you're saying, Heidi, from David
Axelrod. You know, he's talking about - I've never heard it put that way, but
(29:48):
he's right - that Democrats come at them as though they're missionaries. The other
thing Democrats can't do is stay on message. They can't. I tell
people all the time, from my time in the legislature, pick the three. I don't
care what your three are, you'll get elected based upon whether or not they like
your three or not. Right? But pick your three. In my
case, it was infrastructure, it was schools and it was ag. Those
(30:12):
three. That's all I talked about at forums. People would bring up prayer
in the school and all this. And I'd say, let's talk about something important here.
Let's talk about it. People would bring up abortion. I'd say let's talk about
something important here, something we can do, that we actually can do about. Let's
focus on what we can do, you know what?
And, and it would all come back around. But heaven forbid,
(30:34):
as Democrats we could learn that because Lord knows we got to show
that we're smarter than anybody else in the room, Heidi. And don't
forget, we need a 20 point plan, not a three point.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Have I got a 500 page plan for you, man.
(30:56):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And in eight point font. And
a spreadsheet in eight point font, yeah, yeah! Yeah,
exactly. It's great to talk to you, Nick. Keep fighting
the good fight and hopefully the Administration will get their head
on their ass and things will go forward. Yeah, well, at this
(31:17):
point we can only hope, right? Thank you
both. Let's appreciate the
economic stress and remind
people that there are programs to help people during
these really tough times. A lot of them were created in the '80s, but I
think that this financial stress on farmers is going to take its toll.
(31:39):
You bet. I would agree. Heidi. I keep hearing that. Yeah.
Sorry about that. Thank you both. Thanks for joining the Hot Dish, Nick. Appreciate it.
Thanks, Nick. Thank you both.
Heidi. Dean Myers' ticked off.
Dean Meyer is one of the funniest people God put on the earth. And
(32:02):
Dean Meyer is married to a woman who we know really well,
Shirley, one of our dear friends, always kind of keeps him corralled
and not too far off the rails. But I have been
thinking a lot about, not Dean, but about Shirley's
dad, who, Jack Murphy, who was a good old
cowboy, you know, one of the
(32:23):
historic kinds of figures in the North Dakota legislature
and in western North Dakota. One of my favorite people of all
time, even though he was a rock rib conservative, he and I bonded
over royalty statements of all things. You know,
he thought that in the first oil boom in the 80s that he was
getting cheated and came in and he had this old mimeograph paper and
(32:45):
I would just sit down with him and we'd go through all the paperwork and
we became fast friends. And I keep thinking about people like Jack
Murphy and John McCain and people who will call
bullshit when bullshit happens. And
that to me was the rural ethic is that I don't care
what stripe of political party you are, if you're hurting me, I'm calling
(33:07):
bullshit and I'm going to hold you accountable. And, and
that's not what we're seeing, Joel. I mean, we aren't seeing a lot of Dean
Myers out there stirring the pot. We're what? You know, we aren't seeing a lot
of people in leadership who are willing to step up and say,
bullshit, you're hurting me. You're taking me for granted.
And guess what? I'm going to organize against you unless you fix this.
(33:29):
Yeah, well, their cattle's gone limit down, limit down, limit
down all because - Can you explain that, Joel? Because a lot of people wouldn't.
Well, first off, the market will only allow cattle prices,
in this case future prices, to drop so far. Then
after that, they shut it down because they don't want the market to get all
gutted in one day based upon a rumor. This wasn't
(33:50):
a rumor. Donald Trump sent $20 billion and then $20 more billion
down to Argentina. And the first $20 billion pooch the soybean
farmers. The second $20 billion pooched the ranchers. Two different groups of
people, by the way. You know, ranchers, independent libertarians, soybean
farmers, farmers, Both of them upset,
but soybean farmers a little more used to getting help from
(34:12):
the government. Fair, Heidi? Yep.
Okay, so ranchers, not so much the Dean Myers of the
world. Good years, bad years. But you wouldn't
know if it's been a good year because they're not going to rush out and
buy a pickup, those type of things. But it's been a couple good
years. And so the Dean Myers of the world have seen their
(34:33):
markets go down the limit, down the limit, down the limit to the point
where the people that he talks to now when he goes and has that bourbon
about 4:30 in the afternoon, while Shirley saying,
where the heck did you go, Dean? But the people he talked to
are mad. It isn't like the farming
situation, Heidi, where they're, well, let's wait and see. They're mad, Heid.
(34:57):
Well, and you saw the kind of reaction from
Deb Fischer, great example. You know, she's actually a cattle
rancher, one of the few producers in the, in the
Senate, her family. And you know, right away she took
out after them. But not, you know, it's like, can you please,
pretty please fix this? And that's really what people up
(35:20):
and down the, you know, members who
represent cattle farmers, they're hat in hand,
pretty please fix this. And then we get a tweet saying, you just don't
understand. You're just too stupid to know, you know, how
brilliant I am. And you know, it's like, I mean, you
know, the one thing that cattle ranchers don't like is sheep.
(35:42):
But they're kind of acting, you know, little.
You're on your own on that one. Let, let, let me just ask you this.
Do you think that there's something corrupt between the Trump family,
the Trump Administration and the head of Argentina?
Yep, yep. I think that this all goes back to
(36:02):
some deals that were done. And I think it's not
the family, it's kind of a whole hedge fund. There's a whole lot of
rumors out there about how a lot of,
you know, supporters of
Donald Trump have in fact invested in
Argentinian bonds. And they would be a lot
(36:24):
of money out if, if this guy hadn't gotten reelected
and if inflation, if he hadn't gotten the assistance. And so
that's the big rumor on why Trump
worked to try and bail out the bond market in Argentina. I
gotta ask you this in the little bit of time I know we have left.
What's it gonna take for this Shutdown to end? It's gonna
(36:46):
take somebody other than leadership coming. I mean, the last time
I was part of that group that opened up government and, and behind
the scenes, you know that there's groups that are meeting and
it's, it's, I think it's harder now because the, that,
that, you know, the politics are harder than
they were even when I was there. But it's going to take people,
(37:09):
you know, rational people in the Senate and in the House to sit
down and say, what's it going to take to open this up? And I think
there's going to have to be a deal on health insurance.
Well, I get up every morning at 4:30 and I go to work. I get
up and I go to work and then I get home later in the day.
The difference is I'm at work, so I can work.
(37:31):
Congress isn't at work. If you look at the US House, they're not
in town. You know, they're not in town. And
so when you say cut a deal or people to talk behind each other, I
realize they have texts and phone books and email and everything else that goes with
it, but, you know, there's nothing like a handshake and a face to face.
But they're not in town, Heidi. Yeah. And you know, at
(37:53):
the risk of sounding kind of arrogant about the Senate, the Senators are
in town and the Senators are meeting and you saw Rand
Paul and Tim Kaine basically kind of saying,
time to cut a deal. But you know, I think this is again,
the, the kind of hold that this president has over
rational people, they don't dare make a move without him.
(38:15):
But, you know, we did that - You know, the President takes credit
for the 2017 tax bill. Guess what the President did? The most
important thing he did. Get the hell out of the way. He takes credit for,
you know, the banking reform bill. Guess what the President did? Got the hell out
of the way. And so, you know, that was 1.1
or 1.0? 2.0. There's. There's,
(38:36):
I think a little. Little more attempt to exercise
control. Okay, last one. How many points are you going to give me in the
Viking Packer game? Oh, you're gonna get beat, Joel. Poor you.
I didn't say I wasn't gonna get beat. I wanna know how many points. You
alrady got 20 of my bucks. Yeah.
By the way, ladies and gentlemen, moths flew out of her wallet.
(38:58):
The first thing she does is she looks at her husband and she goes, Darwin?
And he goes, pay your own bills for once? No, no, no, ever since Venmo,
it's been a godsend. Here's, here's the other part
that was bad about that 20 bucks. You realize a case of beer, you can't
buy one with a $20 bill anymore. That's not my problem.
You're the one who set the 20 bucks. Bets are going up, baby. That's all
(39:20):
I'm saying. I mean, you know, I, you never know. This is an
interesting year, but boy, the Packers look good the other night, kind of,
you know, and we have a die hard Packer fan. I mean, even more than
me in the, in our family, who hates Love.
And I'm like, why? He's so good.
Yeah, I don't think I wouldn't hate having Love. I don't either. I think Viking
(39:43):
fans need a lot of Love right now. I think that the Packers said.
The Packers, Packers have always had that franchise quarterback, and I think Love can be
a franchise. I know, you're evil. It always is good, though. Having you
with us on the podcast, ladies and gentlemen. Having you here with us on the
Hot Dish. Well, and you know, this is the
Hot Dish brought to you by one countryproject.[org]
(40:06):
and our goal is to really kind of
explore and discuss and give people flavor for what's
happening in rural America. Because it's got to be part of the political
discussion going forward. So please check us
out, give us a call, email us if you'd like another
topic discussed or if you have comments, good or bad.
(40:28):
Yep. And know this, you can always learn more at
onecountryproject.org. We'll be back next week
with more Hot Dish, comfort food for rural America.
Welcome to the Hot Dish, comfort food for middle America. I'm Heidi
Heitkamp. And I'm Joel Heikamp. You know what? We're happy we get a chance
to visit with Nick Levendofski. Nick is, he's
the boss when it comes to the Kansas Farmers Union. He's the Executive Director,
grew up on a farm in north central Kansas. We're talking wheat,
sorghum, soybeans, alfalfa, cattle. Which means he never got to
(00:28):
even go on a date. There was so much work to do. Nick,
good to have you on the Hot Dish. How you been? It's good to be
here, Joel. And I'm just glad we got out of dairying when I was 3,
because that would have really kept me at home. Yeah, so
here's the big question. Because you're younger than both Heidi and I,
did you ever have to throw square bales, small bales?
(00:51):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. We usually put up our last cutting of
alfalfa into small squares, and my grandpa was good
at cranking that baler down. You know, we got every ounce of hay off
of that field into those pails. So, yeah, lots of hay.
And alfalfa is so light. I mean, you know, it doesn't weigh anything.
Yeah, not at all. Not at all. So well, okay,
(01:14):
were they feed cattle or were they dairy cattle? So we, we moved
from dairy in '88 into beef cattle. Yeah. Yeah. You
never even got to play football. You had to milk cows all the time. Did
you? Oh, my dad did. My dad did all,
you know, and he did get to wrestle because he had those good,
you know, good forearms. But. So,
(01:36):
yeah, Nick, all your soybean problems have gone away. It's going to
be the shortest interview in the world. You know, all,
all the Kansas Farmers Union soybean problems have gone away
because apparently Donald Trump and
Mr. Bessant, who farms in North Dakota - not - have said
the soybean problems are going away. Give me your take on that. Well, you
(02:00):
know, I, I watch the Sunday morning shows just like you all did, and,
and I heard this, and it's like, well, I'll believe it when I
see it. I, I think this is too far gone. I
think the damage that has been done to our trade relationship with
China is maybe
not irreversible, but, boy,
(02:22):
the damage that's been done, I think is going to take a long time to
recover from. And, and maybe they'll buy some soybeans. Maybe
they'll commit to. I don't know how much, but the,
the amount of money that they have invested in Argentina
and Brazil in the infrastructure. You know,
they, they're building this transcontinental railroad so that they can
(02:44):
avoid a 3,000 mile, you know, shipping issue. You know,
they're going to get their money's worth. That's where they've been putting all of
their money since the last time we did this in 2018. So why
wouldn't they? Heidi, you said all along it's loss of market
that worries you the most. Well, yeah. I mean, long term, we
survived somehow. The first trade war, they came
(03:08):
back, didn't buy as much. And one of the things that
I remember from that period of time is that they used to
feed their hogs a lot of very
rich protein. They started understanding that they could
actually produce the same quality pork with much less
input. So we saw a reduction. But, you know, China's,
(03:30):
China's in a - In a war
for economic dominance against the United States. And they're not going to be
dependent on their food supply from our country. And so to
disrupt the relationship just exacerbated and
accelerated. I think that relationship. And a lot of people maybe
listening would say, oh, China needs US. Less than
(03:52):
3% of China's GDP is American exports,
is exports to the United States. And so everybody who
wants to believe that, you know, China can't survive without the United
States, you need to read a little bit more. So, Nick,
what are they saying at the Cenex? I mean, okay, you pull in, you need
your cup of coffee, and you're sitting around BS-ing with the boys. I
(04:13):
mean, what are they telling you? Well, I'll tell you, lately
it's been tough to find a farmer that's really willing to talk about it,
mainly because we're in the middle of harvest. The only, the only
reprieve we've had is we've got a little rain here the last couple days. And
I was at a local church harvest festival that they always
have every year, and had a couple conversations with some
(04:36):
folks from the area, and folks are anxious. I mean,
farmers are very nervous about this. And then you throw
in the factor of, now we're going to start shipping in more
Argentine beef. And, boy, that really got
everybody's attention. I mean, you talk about a way to bring
everybody and their dog together around an issue. This
(04:57):
is that. That did it. That announcement the other day that he made
on Air Force One saying that, you know, ranchers don't understand.
Well, you know, tell us more, Donald. You know, tell us what you know
about raising cattle and cattle markets and those kinds of things.
Well, and Heidi, he doubled down on it. Yeah, I mean,
it wasn't like he put his foot in his mouth, which he did
(05:21):
because you just can't admit he made a mistake. I mean, he doubled down on
it. This is a political calculation. Okay. He's
basically said, I have farmers no matter what, and I'm
going to shovel some money out the door and make everybody happy.
And you know what? You know, when you, Joel, you talk to farmers and
Nick, you talk to farmers and I talk to farmers and a lot of
(05:42):
them are not willing to abandon Donald Trump. But guess who's abandoning
Donald Trump? Consumers. Ranchers. Consumers who are - Well, and ranchers. But
I'm talking about consumers. What is he worried about right now? He's
worried about $7 a pound hamburger. And
so he thinks that this is going to solve the problem and reduce
costs at the grocery store, which
(06:05):
shows how naive he is actually. But that's what he's
speaking to. He's decided, look, you know, I'm going
to take rural America for granted because they're with me no matter what. Which
has always been the danger of a one party rural America.
They're with me no matter what. So, know, forget them. I don't need to make
them happy. I need to figure out how I'm going to reduce grocery
(06:28):
costs. Well, and that's why I asked you the question. I mean,
can he take farmers for granted? Oh, I think so.
I think so. He got their votes a year ago. That's all he needed.
He doesn't need anything else at this point. And you know, the, the
paltry economic aid that they're looking at throwing out right
now, they are saying around $3 billion.
(06:51):
That's money that was already allocated, that was money that was already
set aside for crop insurance. So they're just repackaging
it and calling it economic aid. But how far can
$3 billion go when you're looking at the loss of soybean markets, when
you're looking at the potential loss on beef markets,
you know, those kinds of things, Farmers are looking at this situation and
(07:13):
in many cases there are co ops all across the country and I've
heard of some here in Kansas where in particular grain
sorghum, they don't want it. They don't want to take it because
there's no market for it. You know, the Food for Peace program under
USAID was our major buyer for grain
sorghum. We're one of the largest producers of grain sorghum in the country, here
(07:35):
in Kansas. And now they're the, the one guy that I've talked
to on this said it may have to go into pet food.
You know, that's - That's the option we're looking at. Or biodiesel or something
to that effect. So, yeah, farmers are very, very
nervous about what's, what's coming, what's been happening, all
of that. Nick, can I ask you. You know, the bank of
(07:57):
North Dakota, which is a unique institution to North Dakota, is
already putting together a relief package for farmers
because they're hearing from their bankers about stress. What are you hearing in
Kansas? And maybe just across the corn and
be belt. What. What are you hearing about
bankruptcies and about foreclosures?
(08:20):
Well, I, I've got a number of banker friends that I visit with regularly,
and one in particular told me here very recently that the
particular bank he's working with will not loan any money on
anything but land right now. So if you're looking at buying
cattle, there's, that's a no. If you're looking at your operating
loan, that's a no. If you're looking at input costs, that's a
(08:42):
no. And I don't know too many farmers right
now that are chomping at the bit to buy land unless they're already
pretty well established or have some outside backing
investors, that kind of thing. Some of the other
bankers in the area, you can just tell when you walk in the
bank lobby, it's quiet.
(09:05):
They're not saying a whole lot about what's going on. And what they do
say, it's pretty guarded. I was visiting with, with
our banker in Scandia, Kansas, here just the other day, and, and
he's been riding in the combine with his brothers who farm. And he
said, you know, the, the yields are great. Everything looks good. And,
and, you know, you go to the elevator and you see the piles of grain
(09:27):
that are building up because they're running out of room. The elevators
are full. And now we're just piling it up on the ground like
we're used to. We see that. But even more so this year,
the problem is the numbers aren't there as far as price.
It's a bumper crop with bummer price. But when it comes to buying
land, Heidi, there is one soybean farmer that
(09:49):
got a lot of attention on the shows this weekend that's bought up a
lot of land here in our home state, North Dakota.
Oh, yes, the Secretary of Treasury wanted everybody to
feel sorry for him because he's a soybean farmer,
too. So he feels the pain. Number one, he's worth half a
(10:10):
billion dollars. Number two, I want to know if he's actually
reduced cash rent prices for his land since he
thinks he's feeling the pain. Nick, this was
a huge, huge misstep. And of course,
I would say, and putting on my partisan hat, if I had been the
Democratic Party in any of these places, I would have
(10:31):
absolutely. You know, it's insult to injury.
It's insult to injury for a landlord to complain
and try and color himself as a soybean farmer.
I'm reminded of the late Ann Richards quote, when she spoke
of George Bush, that he was born with a silver foot in his
mouth. And that that is exactly what
(10:54):
I saw the other day when I was watching the Sunday morning shows. And it's
just like, you've got to be kidding me. You know, what, what do you have
in common with somebody who's been doing this their entire
life, you know, for multiple generations?
He's obviously an investor. He's invested in this,
and it just, it doesn't add up. I'm sorry,
(11:17):
but I have a hard time feeling sorry for the, for him o that. And
in our state, Heid, and I think all over the Midwest, people don't like
folks from the east or west coast owning the farmland. Yeah, in
North Dakota, we, we've actually passed laws over whether or not corporations
can buy farmland. And so now
we've got Bill Gates, you know, we've got. We've got all
(11:40):
of these people claiming to be soybean farmers who. I don't know if they know
the difference between an air drill and a grain cart. I
mean, I really don't. And, Heidi, you mentioned
that if you had the opportunity, you would pound that.
I go back to the question that I asked Nick earlier, which
(12:00):
is, what's the reaction from farmers? They didn't
push back on it a lot. I mean, they didn't. Why?
I think that there is a natural inclination, Joel,
to basically
stick with the President. You voted for him, yet
(12:23):
you then go back to all the reasons why you think the Democratic Party
is bad, whether that's cultural or whether it's environmental regulation,
whatever that is. And they say, we're going, you know, he cares about
us. Yes, he's doing things that hurt us,
but he cares about us. And it is, I mean, I
just keep thinking if somebody with a different party label were
(12:45):
doing any of these things and I was still in the Senate, I would have
to hire five more people to answer the phone. And so shame on
American farmers for being taken for granted. Shame on American farmers
and ranchers for letting him do this without any political
pain. Because the next time around, there you mean
- Number one, and Nick, we should talk a little bit about this, that the
(13:07):
kind of historic relationship we've had between food
security and the Farm Bill. We don't have a Farm
Bill. It's good. Parts of the Farm Bill are going to have to be extended
by the end of the year. That's going to be a really tough lift because
it's going to take 60 votes and we've lost trust.
And so, you know, I don't know at what point
(13:29):
it's, you know, the straw that breaks the camel's back, but I don't think
we've seen it. And I know we have a lot of listeners who say, when
is that going to happen? Yeah, I don't think it's happened yet.
Yeah, I really thought it was good. Oh, sorry, Joel. Go. Yeah, I mean, but
I would add to that we don't have a Farm Bill yet, but
it's rule of law, right? I mean, that would be in law. That'd
(13:52):
be in place. This Administration doesn't care about that. I
mean, Nick, they do what they want to do. If they want to send
soybean farmers money and make them smile, they're going to do it. If they want
to knock over the east wing of the White House, they just go ahead and
do it. I mean, so, yeah, there may be no farm bill,
but he has a real history from Trump 1.0
(14:14):
of sending money out to farmers. And I think the farmers that I
live with are counting on that. I think they are. I think they
expect it. You know, there's only, what, one and a half to
2% of the population is involved in production
agriculture. So, yeah, it's, it's so few
of our population that, that feed, and clothe, and
(14:36):
fuel the world, basically. So it's,
it is a little bit different than any other industry. It truly is.
But this idea that we should be reliant on these,
you know, government checks is ridiculous. Farmers want trade,
they don't want aid, they don't want checks handed out. But it's not like
they're going to turn them away either when they get...I mean, I remember in
(14:58):
2018 when this all went down and my dad got his check for his
soybeans and I asked him, I said, well, where did that check go?
You know, what did you do with that? And he said, well, I had to
put a transmission in my 25 year old tractor, it went out, had
to put a transmission in. So I said, well, what did that cost? He said,
it took the whole check. Wow. So what did you, what did you gain?
(15:19):
You know, and, and that's the, the whole point here.
It's like, what are we gaining? We still don't have a soybean market.
And yet you've got a 25 year old tractor with a new transmission
in it. You never gained anything. And, and I think that's
the, I think that's the mindset that we've got to try to break into
and be like, folks, we're not gaining here this long term
(15:42):
pain for, or this short term pain for long term gain.
My question is, what is the long term gain? What are
we gaining? And I don't think anybody knows. Well, and
Heidi, a good friend of ours, I'm going to say his name, Dean Meyer
from out west. We've been talking a lot on my show about the
difference between ranchers and farmers. Everybody assumes they're
(16:04):
the same people. They're not, they're not at all. Ranchers
are libertarians. Farmers are just as, as
Nick just described them. But he gave me some numbers, you guys. I
want to run over them. Beef is up 355%
since 1980. Now keep this
in mind. This is 1980 to now. Tractors up
(16:25):
1,180%. Balerr's
up 550%. Pickups up 847%.
Coffee, 775%. Doritos - Well,
I think you know where I'm going to go there. My point is this:
as a rancher, he's pissed off and he's mad because
his product that he raises and provides, ground beef,
(16:48):
is being portrayed as just skyrocketing and
the ranchers are making too much money by the President. I mean,
Heidi, he's mad. He's really mad.
He's not somebody you want to be mad.
No, but, but it's absolutely true. And
finally, they're getting a decent price. And it's cyclical. And we all
(17:09):
know it's cyclical. They're getting a decent price for feeder
cattle, you know, kind of, you know, record
amounts for a short period of time. And the first thing that happens
is they say, oh, well, we can't have that. We've got to, we've got
to import beef from someplace else. Because number
one, that's a twofer. Because I like this guy from
(17:31):
Venezuela, he's one. Or yeah, Venezuela, he's one of
Argentina. He's one of my favorite people. So I'm going
to, you know, import beef when we don't know how that
beef is raised. And you know, this. I was a longtime
advocate for, you know, country of origin labeling,
still am, you know, because people want to buy American beef. But the other
(17:53):
point is, and I want to, you know, kind of connect the dots to
the consumer. At the same time, he has decided he, he's
going to send a bunch of money out in middle of this shutdown, but
he's not gonna help people who need food assistance. And so if he
really wanted to help people who are struggling with their food budget, he
certainly wouldn't. He'd be sitting down, negotiating with the Democrats and opening
(18:16):
up government. But that's not where he's at because they don't wanna
portray anybody who needs food assistance as anything other than a
freeloader. And we all know that the vast majority of people are getting
that subsidy and getting that help, you know, and, you
know, I don't know how you can defend farmers
getting help and you can't think about how
(18:38):
families, family of four struggling to make ends meet on a food
budget, who both are working sometimes 2, 3 jobs to make
ends meet, isn't, isn't entitled in these
times to get food assistance. Yeah, could I tag
onto that real quick? Yeah, go ahead, Nick. So I called
our Republic County Kansas Food Bank this morning. We've got
(19:00):
our Farmers Union County meeting tonight. And one thing
I like to do at our meeting, excuse me, is pass the hat
so that we can give to a local organization in need. So tonight we're going
to give, you know, whatever we collect after our expenses are paid
for the meeting and give that to the food bank. But
I talked to her and she said they are preparing for an
(19:23):
influx of, of assistance. I
talked to both of our schools. We have two school districts in our county.
Over half of the kids in our schools are on free and reduced
meals. So that tells me we've got a
problem here and it's going to get worse. After November 1st,
there's going to be a lot more folks in need and you know, the
(19:45):
challenges that we're seeing. I talked to a guy yesterday who said that the
food bank line in his community, now he lives in a, in a more
urban area, was blocks long, you know,
over the weekend. So it's coming. We've got to be
prepared for it and we've got to do everything we can. If we can't
rely on the government to step in and do it, we're going to have to
(20:06):
do it ourselves. We're going to have to give more, we're going to have to
donate more non-perishable items or just flat out cash.
And that's where we're at. And it's scary and
it's sad and it's shameful. Guys, this morning on
my radio show, I had the Great Plains Food Bank on, which is
exactly what you two are making reference to. They go all over my
(20:29):
home state, every one of the towns, and deliver food to people,
provide a place that people can go to for food. They're looking for money,
they're looking for just what you're going to do, Nick. You can drop
off all the cans of things you want and they'll be happy to take them,
but they need money because they know the specific needs they have. And, and
they are, it's one of those turn the microphone off
(20:52):
and then you really get a window. And it isn't, I don't want to say
they're partisan. That wasn't it at all. They were just sick to their stomach.
I mean, they're scared. They're, they're really, really scared. And so
I'm going to ask both of you the same question, which is we, we
laid out the problem. We laid out what's going on. We laid out what we
know to be true because it is true. Why the hell can't a
(21:14):
Democrat win in any of these states? I mean, I'm going to throw that to
you, Nick. I mean, if, if these people are as bad at
governing as what we know them to be today, why can't a
Democrat win? You know, I've, I've wondered that myself.
And in all the years that I've been involved in this, involved in this work,
not just through Farmers Union, but, you know, through other, you know,
(21:36):
entities and the Democratic Party. I remember the days
of Byron Dorgan and Kent Conrad and Tom Daschle and Heidi
Heitkamp, you know, and they would come to Farmers Union
fly ins or Farmers Union conventions. And
you know, we all cheered him on, we all supported him.
And now everything has shifted. I mean, I can't speak to it from Kansas
(21:58):
because we, you know, when we get together as Democrats, we can meet up
at a, in a phone booth most of the time. But, but the
reality is that, you know, the Democratic
Party has kind of turned its back on rural America.
And, and I hate that I remember seeing in my
grandparents's home pictures of JFK and fdr,
(22:21):
you know, right up next to the picture of the Last Supper, you know, good,
good Irish Polish Catholics. But, you know,
as time has gone on, we've. We've shifted. And, you
know, whether that society has shifted or the party has shifted,
I think you could probably blame both. But we've got to figure out
how to get back out into rural America and
(22:44):
get that message out there that there is an alternative and
that we have more in common than we do different.
Heidi, why can't we get you elected again? You did
a hell of a job. Why can't we get you elected again? You know, I
think that so many of these races have become nationalized. And
so I tell a story, and it's a true story about a reporter.
(23:07):
She was out in North Dakota trying to figure out what was going
on in the race in 18, and she ran into a
guy who was a corn grower and he just, oh, effusive,
effusive in his praise for what I had done for the corn growers.
You know, kind of. We gave her a national award.
And when we go to Washington, she's the most interesting
(23:30):
and prepared of all the people. And that's kind of what I thought. I
thought, oh, if I get prepared and I actually deliver. And so this
person said, so you're going to vote for her? And he goes, oh, no, she's
a Democrat. And it is the Democratic brand. It's not the
individuals, it is the Democratic brand. And that these
races have become nationalized. And, you know, I think the
(23:51):
only thing that is going to bring it back is with a message that
speaks to, you know, a broader group of people than
just the urban elites and the Democrats. You know,
as much as you would holler about waters of the United States and how that
was creating uncertainty, here's a great example. I always use the waters of the
United States as an example because so many of the people inside the
(24:13):
Beltway, well, you, you know, we can't give up any jurisdiction under
the Clean Water Act. And I would put up a picture, and North Dakota still
has a flyway, you know, tons of one acre, two acre
wetlands, you know, and I would point
at it, you know, when I would be in hearings, and I say, is that
waters of the United States not connected to anything? And the
(24:35):
answer was never yes or no. It was maybe. And I thought that's almost the
worst answer. And so when people don't respond
to legitimate concerns about overreach,
they don't respond to legitimate concerns about identity
politics that don't match how people believe
the world should be, you know, and
(24:58):
you don't show up and all the good
Democrats, as we used to say in rural areas, have just shut their
mouth. They're not out there defending. They're not sitting at the coffee table. I
mean, Joel, you have to do it every day because that's what you do.
But, you know, people silently are cheering you on,
but they're not going down to the coffee shop, you know, kind of
(25:20):
taking on the, the hard right or the maga. The maga
Republicans. They're just not. But I'm going to throw this at you, Nick, because
this, to me, is exactly what Heidi and you are getting at. But
I think it's the best example. I'm going to ask you a question.
What's the gravel road like in front of your farm?
It's a mess right now. We've had rain the last couple
(25:43):
of days, and it's tore up. But
here's my point. During harvest, it's usually tore up. But my point is
the Biden Administration passed an
Infrastructure Bill. Nothing more important to rural
America than to have paved roads, to have good township
roads, to have good county roads, to have good state
(26:05):
roads, farm to market roads. And the Democrats
never talked about it once in the campaign. Never once.
And. And that is what's important to rural
America, infrastructure, whether it be water, sewer, broadband.
I mean, Heidi, you fought like hell for these things. I mean,
but, Nick, in your state, this happened. And
(26:27):
the first thing that, that Trump did was lay claim to a lot of it.
Oh, yes. I don't know if farmers didn't get that or if we, the
Democrats, just did a crappy job of explaining it Next.
I think that it's all what you see on national
media and the loss of
local media and local media coverage and the
(26:50):
unwillingness of Democrats to go on. I mean, one of
the pieces of advice that I gave the incoming Secretary of
Agriculture was get a list of
radio stations across the country, talk radio,
radio stations, you know, ag radio stations,
and, you know, just randomly call them up, say, I want to visit about what
(27:13):
we're doing here at USDA. No, I mean,
you know, that's too much of a challenge, right,
to actually spend some time visiting with farmers about what the
goal is. And, you know, part of it is
neglect, but the other part is a failure to kind of see.
(27:34):
David Axelrod, who's a dear friend of mine, says it this way, and I think
it's just right. He said when Democrats approach rural America,
they approach him not as neighbors but as missionaries.
And the message that you hear all the time is, look what we've done for
you. That is not a winning message in rural America
because look what they've done for you! Produce food,
(27:57):
kind of raised their families, brought, brought
a vibrancy to the fabric of
America's culture. And, you know, they just,
I think it's the best way to describe Democratic attitudes in the
past towards the rural America.
I'm glad you brought that up, Heidi, because I have,
(28:20):
quote, unquote, advised a handful of candidates in this
upcoming election, both for U.S. Senate and Governor,
Democrats that are looking to run or have already said they're running,
and every one of them said, you know, we're going to go spend time in
western Kansas. We're going to go out there and spend a week. And that's like,
good. You need to, you need to get out there and you need to talk
(28:41):
to these folks. You need to do all of that. But most importantly,
you need to listen. All the talking in the world isn't going to do
you any favors because, you know, the majority of these folks that are running for
these seats are from Johnson County, Kansas, the richest county
in the state, Kansas City Kansas area. And
it, it's not unlike what was said earlier about Mr. Bessant and the east
(29:04):
and west coast landowners. The last thing that western Kansas
farmers and ranchers want is somebody from Johnson county coming
out to where they live and farm and ranch and tell them what they need
or here's what I'm going to do to help you. They need to listen
to those farmers and ranchers and rural citizens to understand
the challenges that they're dealing with so that they can tell them what is
(29:26):
needed out there and what is not, frankly. So my
hope is that that advice, you know, go somewhere, I don't know, we'll
see. But that's what I've been telling them all along. Yeah.
To me, the one thing the Democrats can't do is because and it goes
back to what you're saying, Heidi, from David
Axelrod. You know, he's talking about - I've never heard it put that way, but
(29:48):
he's right - that Democrats come at them as though they're missionaries. The other
thing Democrats can't do is stay on message. They can't. I tell
people all the time, from my time in the legislature, pick the three. I don't
care what your three are, you'll get elected based upon whether or not they like
your three or not. Right? But pick your three. In my
case, it was infrastructure, it was schools and it was ag. Those
(30:12):
three. That's all I talked about at forums. People would bring up prayer
in the school and all this. And I'd say, let's talk about something important here.
Let's talk about it. People would bring up abortion. I'd say let's talk about
something important here, something we can do, that we actually can do about. Let's
focus on what we can do, you know what?
And, and it would all come back around. But heaven forbid,
(30:34):
as Democrats we could learn that because Lord knows we got to show
that we're smarter than anybody else in the room, Heidi. And don't
forget, we need a 20 point plan, not a three point.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Have I got a 500 page plan for you, man.
(30:56):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And in eight point font. And
a spreadsheet in eight point font, yeah, yeah! Yeah,
exactly. It's great to talk to you, Nick. Keep fighting
the good fight and hopefully the Administration will get their head
on their ass and things will go forward. Yeah, well, at this
(31:17):
point we can only hope, right? Thank you
both. Let's appreciate the
economic stress and remind
people that there are programs to help people during
these really tough times. A lot of them were created in the '80s, but I
think that this financial stress on farmers is going to take its toll.
(31:39):
You bet. I would agree. Heidi. I keep hearing that. Yeah.
Sorry about that. Thank you both. Thanks for joining the Hot Dish, Nick. Appreciate it.
Thanks, Nick. Thank you both.
Heidi. Dean Myers' ticked off.
Dean Meyer is one of the funniest people God put on the earth. And
(32:02):
Dean Meyer is married to a woman who we know really well,
Shirley, one of our dear friends, always kind of keeps him corralled
and not too far off the rails. But I have been
thinking a lot about, not Dean, but about Shirley's
dad, who, Jack Murphy, who was a good old
cowboy, you know, one of the
(32:23):
historic kinds of figures in the North Dakota legislature
and in western North Dakota. One of my favorite people of all
time, even though he was a rock rib conservative, he and I bonded
over royalty statements of all things. You know,
he thought that in the first oil boom in the 80s that he was
getting cheated and came in and he had this old mimeograph paper and
(32:45):
I would just sit down with him and we'd go through all the paperwork and
we became fast friends. And I keep thinking about people like Jack
Murphy and John McCain and people who will call
bullshit when bullshit happens. And
that to me was the rural ethic is that I don't care
what stripe of political party you are, if you're hurting me, I'm calling
(33:07):
bullshit and I'm going to hold you accountable. And, and
that's not what we're seeing, Joel. I mean, we aren't seeing a lot of Dean
Myers out there stirring the pot. We're what? You know, we aren't seeing a lot
of people in leadership who are willing to step up and say,
bullshit, you're hurting me. You're taking me for granted.
And guess what? I'm going to organize against you unless you fix this.
(33:29):
Yeah, well, their cattle's gone limit down, limit down, limit
down all because - Can you explain that, Joel? Because a lot of people wouldn't.
Well, first off, the market will only allow cattle prices,
in this case future prices, to drop so far. Then
after that, they shut it down because they don't want the market to get all
gutted in one day based upon a rumor. This wasn't
(33:50):
a rumor. Donald Trump sent $20 billion and then $20 more billion
down to Argentina. And the first $20 billion pooch the soybean
farmers. The second $20 billion pooched the ranchers. Two different groups of
people, by the way. You know, ranchers, independent libertarians, soybean
farmers, farmers, Both of them upset,
but soybean farmers a little more used to getting help from
(34:12):
the government. Fair, Heidi? Yep.
Okay, so ranchers, not so much the Dean Myers of the
world. Good years, bad years. But you wouldn't
know if it's been a good year because they're not going to rush out and
buy a pickup, those type of things. But it's been a couple good
years. And so the Dean Myers of the world have seen their
(34:33):
markets go down the limit, down the limit, down the limit to the point
where the people that he talks to now when he goes and has that bourbon
about 4:30 in the afternoon, while Shirley saying,
where the heck did you go, Dean? But the people he talked to
are mad. It isn't like the farming
situation, Heidi, where they're, well, let's wait and see. They're mad, Heid.
(34:57):
Well, and you saw the kind of reaction from
Deb Fischer, great example. You know, she's actually a cattle
rancher, one of the few producers in the, in the
Senate, her family. And you know, right away she took
out after them. But not, you know, it's like, can you please,
pretty please fix this? And that's really what people up
(35:20):
and down the, you know, members who
represent cattle farmers, they're hat in hand,
pretty please fix this. And then we get a tweet saying, you just don't
understand. You're just too stupid to know, you know, how
brilliant I am. And you know, it's like, I mean, you
know, the one thing that cattle ranchers don't like is sheep.
(35:42):
But they're kind of acting, you know, little.
You're on your own on that one. Let, let, let me just ask you this.
Do you think that there's something corrupt between the Trump family,
the Trump Administration and the head of Argentina?
Yep, yep. I think that this all goes back to
(36:02):
some deals that were done. And I think it's not
the family, it's kind of a whole hedge fund. There's a whole lot of
rumors out there about how a lot of,
you know, supporters of
Donald Trump have in fact invested in
Argentinian bonds. And they would be a lot
(36:24):
of money out if, if this guy hadn't gotten reelected
and if inflation, if he hadn't gotten the assistance. And so
that's the big rumor on why Trump
worked to try and bail out the bond market in Argentina. I
gotta ask you this in the little bit of time I know we have left.
What's it gonna take for this Shutdown to end? It's gonna
(36:46):
take somebody other than leadership coming. I mean, the last time
I was part of that group that opened up government and, and behind
the scenes, you know that there's groups that are meeting and
it's, it's, I think it's harder now because the, that,
that, you know, the politics are harder than
they were even when I was there. But it's going to take people,
(37:09):
you know, rational people in the Senate and in the House to sit
down and say, what's it going to take to open this up? And I think
there's going to have to be a deal on health insurance.
Well, I get up every morning at 4:30 and I go to work. I get
up and I go to work and then I get home later in the day.
The difference is I'm at work, so I can work.
(37:31):
Congress isn't at work. If you look at the US House, they're not
in town. You know, they're not in town. And
so when you say cut a deal or people to talk behind each other, I
realize they have texts and phone books and email and everything else that goes with
it, but, you know, there's nothing like a handshake and a face to face.
But they're not in town, Heidi. Yeah. And you know, at
(37:53):
the risk of sounding kind of arrogant about the Senate, the Senators are
in town and the Senators are meeting and you saw Rand
Paul and Tim Kaine basically kind of saying,
time to cut a deal. But you know, I think this is again,
the, the kind of hold that this president has over
rational people, they don't dare make a move without him.
(38:15):
But, you know, we did that - You know, the President takes credit
for the 2017 tax bill. Guess what the President did? The most
important thing he did. Get the hell out of the way. He takes credit for,
you know, the banking reform bill. Guess what the President did? Got the hell out
of the way. And so, you know, that was 1.1
or 1.0? 2.0. There's. There's,
(38:36):
I think a little. Little more attempt to exercise
control. Okay, last one. How many points are you going to give me in the
Viking Packer game? Oh, you're gonna get beat, Joel. Poor you.
I didn't say I wasn't gonna get beat. I wanna know how many points. You
alrady got 20 of my bucks. Yeah.
By the way, ladies and gentlemen, moths flew out of her wallet.
(38:58):
The first thing she does is she looks at her husband and she goes, Darwin?
And he goes, pay your own bills for once? No, no, no, ever since Venmo,
it's been a godsend. Here's, here's the other part
that was bad about that 20 bucks. You realize a case of beer, you can't
buy one with a $20 bill anymore. That's not my problem.
You're the one who set the 20 bucks. Bets are going up, baby. That's all
(39:20):
I'm saying. I mean, you know, I, you never know. This is an
interesting year, but boy, the Packers look good the other night, kind of,
you know, and we have a die hard Packer fan. I mean, even more than
me in the, in our family, who hates Love.
And I'm like, why? He's so good.
Yeah, I don't think I wouldn't hate having Love. I don't either. I think Viking
(39:43):
fans need a lot of Love right now. I think that the Packers said.
The Packers, Packers have always had that franchise quarterback, and I think Love can be
a franchise. I know, you're evil. It always is good, though. Having you
with us on the podcast, ladies and gentlemen. Having you here with us on the
Hot Dish. Well, and you know, this is the
Hot Dish brought to you by one countryproject.[org]
(40:06):
and our goal is to really kind of
explore and discuss and give people flavor for what's
happening in rural America. Because it's got to be part of the political
discussion going forward. So please check us
out, give us a call, email us if you'd like another
topic discussed or if you have comments, good or bad.
(40:28):
Yep. And know this, you can always learn more at
onecountryproject.org. We'll be back next week
with more Hot Dish, comfort food for rural America.
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