July 29, 2025 • 62 mins
In this episode of The One Pebble Podcast, Kristine talks with Pastor Keith Kerstetter, who led the Willmar Assemblies of God church for more than two decades. His heart for the community has had a far-reaching impact on Willmar and beyond. Learn more about his heart for service, and why he says you shouldn't be an impala...
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 00 (00:04):
This is the One Pebble Podcast.
I'm your host, Kristine.
Welcome to the One PebblePodcast.
It is my great joy and honortoday to have guest Pastor Keith
Kerstetter.
Pastor Keith, thank you so muchfor saying yes and being a part
(00:26):
of the One Pebble Podcast.
Kristine,
Speaker 01 (00:28):
thanks for having me.
This is going to be a hoot.
Speaker 00 (00:31):
It's going to be a hoot and I'm really excited to
get into your heart and who youare and learn so much more about
you today.
I want to first read your bioso I and the listeners can
become more familiar with whoyou are.
You have a liberal arts degreefrom Grove City College, a
(00:52):
master's degree from IndianaUniversity in Pennsylvania.
Your work history is you were adirector of juvenile court in
Charleston, South Carolina,community education
administrator from Hopkins,Minnesota, business
administrator and executivepastor in Bloomington AG, and
(01:12):
formerly our senior pastor hereat Willmar AG.
You accepted Christ in yourearly 30s.
You're married to the lovelyCindy, who I know, and you were
married in 1988.
You have four kids, three boysthat are married.
Your youngest, Anna, is ajunior at Dort College.
(01:34):
Five grandkids, three in Tulsaand two here in Farmington,
Minnesota.
I want to talk a little bitabout your service.
You've been a person thathas...
Thank you so much for joiningus.
(01:55):
The YMCA Board, Salvation ArmyBoard, Bethesda Foundation
Board, Willmar MinisterialLeadership, and currently on the
Food Shelf Board.
(02:16):
Wow, that is a lot of serviceto our community.
So we're super excited to haveyou.
And I have to tell you, myheart behind doing this podcast
is I love, love the heart andstories of people.
And what makes people tick andpeople that are doing good in
(02:38):
the world.
And you and your wife, Cindy,are people that I've long
identified as do-gooders.
You just go out and you castpebbles and make a difference.
And we're super grateful foryour leadership.
And all the ripples that you'vecreated here in the Willmar
community that have spread farand wide.
(02:59):
And I dare to say ripples thathave spread across the world.
Speaker 01 (03:03):
Thank you.
And you know what?
This is such a good fit for youbecause this is who you are.
I mean, you...
We have watched you.
You say you watched us.
Well, we have watched you.
I've been at so many activitieswhere you have volunteered and
come and helped ministries raisemoney.
And you're like a forcemultiplier because, you know, I
(03:25):
know they set their goal andthey think we're going to make
this much.
And by the time you're done,they have made this much and get
the chance then to be far moresuccessful in what they're doing
and serving our community.
So thank you for everythingyou've done.
Speaker 00 (03:40):
That's so kind of you I am really excited about
(04:13):
this podcast.
And again,
Speaker 01 (04:15):
that fits you to a T.
You're the type of person thatpeople feel better about
themselves when they're withyou.
I don't know if you understandthat, but that's true.
And I think every guest thatyou have on here would say the
same thing.
So I feel better about
Speaker 00 (04:33):
myself right now.
That's very kind.
Thank you.
I want to say somethingsincerely to you, and I want you
to receive my words.
I've thought about them formany days now, and hopefully I
won't get a little bit chokedup.
And these words are not only toyou, Pastor Keith, but equally
to your wife.
You've made a difference in thelives of countless people.
(04:54):
You have walked in your callingand you've lived out your
faith.
My husband, Jamie, and I, wehave admired you for decades.
Your daughter Anna and our sonHarris went to preschool
together.
They're now juniors in college.
I don't know where those yearshave gone.
You've been a pastor for many,many, many years.
(05:17):
A community leader, a Christfollower, a husband, a father, a
grandpa, a friend to many, andthe list goes on and on.
When I think about the whybehind this podcast and why I
wanted you to come on and learnmore about you and share your
story, is we can all throw apebble to create a large ripple
(05:38):
effect.
We do not have to change theworld in a big way, but we can
all do good.
We can find good with intentionand make a difference.
I'm always amazed and inspiredby how one decision, one act of
courage, one act ofencouragement or kindness, or
simply doing the one thing youwere prompted to do can often
(06:03):
create...
large ripples and sometimes forgenerations.
And again, this isn't to makeyou feel good.
It's just simply the truth.
That is the man you've beenalongside of your wife as a team
with intention.
That's what you two have donefor decades.
So now we're excited to learnmore about you and who you are
(06:26):
and hear your heart and beinspired by the intention.
Speaker 01 (06:29):
Thank you.
I appreciate those words.
Speaker 00 (06:32):
So If you would, I would love you to share, start
by sharing some of your story.
Maybe start when you wereyounger.
And in a couple minutes, canyou tell us more, aside from
your bio, which is veryimpressive, share with us some
(06:53):
of your story.
Speaker 01 (06:53):
Well, quickly, I was raised in Pennsylvania and we
went to church every Sunday.
Inter-Presbyterian Church.
But I didn't understand abouthaving a personal relationship
with Jesus.
Nothing stuck.
And so as soon as I was out ofthat house, I was out of church.
I got my master's degree.
(07:15):
Wasn't sure where I wanted toland.
All I knew was I wanted to getout of winter.
So I packed up all my stuff andeverything I couldn't fit in my
Mazda station wagon.
I gave away.
I moved to South Carolinawithout a job, without a place
to stay.
Found a roommate, startedmowing grass, ended up getting a
(07:36):
job with the state of SouthCarolina, and ultimately became
the director of juvenile courtin Charleston, which was all the
intake.
So we covered everything from akid who was truant from school
to a kid who murdered somebody.
And then also supervisedprobation after they got out of
institutions.
(07:57):
And I found that I did not wantto do that for the rest of my
life.
I was involved with a woman.
She was from Minnesota.
She wanted to move back home,which was tough for me because
when I moved to South Carolina,I made two vows, Kristine.
I would never be in winteragain, and I would never be in
church again.
I ended up as a pastor inMinnesota.
(08:19):
So I figured out, okay, God,that's how it works.
So I've said, God, I'll neverbe rich.
And I'm still waiting on thatone.
But anyway...
So we moved to Minnesota,again, without a job, without a
place to stay, figured it out.
I got a job with the HopkinsSchool District.
And it was during that timethat I started attending
(08:40):
Bloomington Assembly andeverything was just different.
I had been pretty closed as anindividual emotionally.
So kind of tap danced aroundrelationships because I was
afraid for people to see thereal me.
that maybe they wouldn't likethe real me.
And when I realized who Jesuswas and what he did for me and
(09:03):
how much he loved me,regardless, it just, there was a
freedom that came over me whenI realized that it wasn't just
me searching for Jesus.
He'd been searching for me thiswhole time.
And that's what was missing inmy life because I was in danger
of repeating the same year overand over and over again.
I realized something had tochange and it was Jesus.
(09:25):
And once I accepted Christ,man, things happened in a rush.
And I met my wife at church andwe got married and then I got
baptized.
And then we started having kidsand made friends for a life.
I call them 2 a.m.
friends.
You know, who can you call at 2a.m.?
And they won't yell at you.
(09:45):
They won't hang it.
They'll just say, what do youneed?
Okay.
And I went from having no 2a.m.
friends to having more than Ican shake a stick at.
And ultimately felt the call ofGod on my life.
Didn't know what that meantbecause I thought, well, I can't
be a pastor.
I mean, I haven't done anythingpastoral in my life, but I've
(10:08):
been an administrator.
And then I realized I could bea business administrator at a
church.
And it just turned out that myhome church, was changing
pastors.
He was looking for a newbusiness administrator.
And it was like God workedeverything out.
I didn't have to leave mychurch.
I didn't have to leave home.
I didn't have to go for extraschooling at that point.
I just became the businessadministrator.
(10:29):
And then at some point in thatjob, the pastor said, I see a
pastor in you.
Speaker 00 (10:39):
You just gave me goosebumps.
Speaker 01 (10:43):
That surprised me because, again, to that point, I
hadn't spoken.
I hadn't taught a class.
I hadn't counseled anybody.
I was an administrator.
So we hired anotheradministrator, and I went over
on the pastoral side, and Ithought, well, I need to do
something pastoral to...
you know, justify my position.
So I said, I guess I'll start aSunday school class.
(11:04):
And so I started a class calledthe James Gang.
It was for people that I felt Icould relate to, the people
that they weren't sure wherethey fit, because I never was
sure before Jesus, I was neversure where I fit.
And the class just grew andgrew.
We got to a class of about 200.
They had to keep changingrooms.
(11:25):
And then it became clear that,okay, maybe that's part of your
gifting, that you have theopportunity to put things
together and share and be partof people's transformation.
And at some point then, weloved our time there.
We were there 11 years, thoughtwe'd probably retire there.
But God took Bloomington out ofour heart and ended up putting
(11:51):
Willmar in.
We came out to Willmar and thenwe've been here for 23 years.
And this is our home.
And even though we're retired,we're hoping that at some point
we'll go back and be part of thebody at Willmar AG and just be
the best supporters of the newpastor that we can be.
Speaker 00 (12:13):
It's just amazing when I think of what you just
told us and how you neverthought that you would ever be a
pastor.
and how one step led to thenext and the next and the
Speaker 01 (12:28):
next.
There are people who are stillsurprised that I'm a pastor and
some are in my family,
Speaker 00 (12:34):
by the way.
And you just kept listening tothe promptings, but you had to
say yes to the call, PastorKeith.
And what you had to do thatamazes me and inspires me so
much about people.
And I think one of the reasonswhy I'm excited about sharing
people's stories and your storyis We all have fear.
I have fear.
(12:55):
We all have fear.
But you put your courage aheadof your fear.
And you said, Lord, here we go.
Can you speak more to that?
I'm sure there was times thatyou were afraid and excited, but
you just knew, I need to walkin this calling and live out
(13:18):
this faith.
And you said, It sounds so easywhen you tell the story
backwards, but it took courageand it took listening to those
promptings.
Speaker 01 (13:31):
Well, it helps when you're too stupid to realize
maybe what all the things thatare going on and you just
blindly say, okay, Lord, here wego.
I think so often when I saidyes, I didn't know what I didn't
know.
And you just trust the Lordthat say, okay.
This is, you know, the resultsare up to you.
(13:51):
I'll say, yes, I'll do thethings you tell me to do, but
you're responsible for theresults.
And I think that's been ourapproach all, all along.
And that takes a lot of thepressure off.
Um, and Lord, it's up to you.
I did what you said you wantedme to do.
I did this.
I went to Willmar.
(14:12):
We did this.
We took a step of faith hereand, uh, And that's just what we
need to do.
And if I could say anything toanybody, it's, it's just that,
you know, sometimes we're likethe Impala, the Impala can jump
30 feet, but he won't, he won'tjump if he can't see where he's
(14:32):
going to land.
And I learned, I, I just can'tbe an Impala and be a true
Christ follower.
I, I just have to jump andfigure out the Lord's going to
land me where he's going to landme.
Unknown (14:46):
Hmm.
Speaker 00 (14:47):
I love that.
That is so true how we, most ofthe time, we want to know where
we're going to land.
We want to be in control and wedon't want to jump until it's
calculated and we know theresults.
But I think that stepping outin faith, as you and Cindy have
done for a lifetime, it has,again, the impact for Christ and
(15:13):
his kingdom is has beenimmeasurable by the decisions
Speaker 01 (15:18):
that you've made.
The other thing I would say isit's a lot easier to step out in
faith when you are part of acommunity and you surround
yourself with people who arelike-minded, people who want the
same thing that you do, peoplethat you have a vital
relationship with, people thatyou can be yourself with,
that...
the people who are closest toyou end up loving and respecting
(15:40):
you the most.
It's just so much easier tomove forward then because you
feel like, okay, I'm not doingthis alone.
I'm part of a team.
And that's huge becauseeverybody wants to feel like
they belong somewhere.
And that's one of the greatthings that I learned in
ministry.
(16:00):
And one of the things that Ithink that has informed my wife
and I is that There are so manypeople out there that they're
just not sure where they belong.
And we wanted to create aculture at our church that said,
if you're not sure where youbelong, you belong here.
And when I look at the makeupof the church over the years, I
(16:22):
feel like we were at leastpartially successful in doing
that.
Because if you would go to thechurch, you would see...
Every age, every economicstatus, every type of dress, a
good ethnic diversity.
I mean, it was just peoplecoming out of jail, coming out
(16:44):
of rehab, people coming off ofGreen Lake.
I mean, it was just, we allcame together.
And that's kind of what theearly church was.
It was master and slavetogether.
No titles, no distinction.
Everybody just coming togetherto worship the Lord.
And that's what we wanted.
Unknown (17:00):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 00 (17:00):
I will say to you, Pastor Keith, although I have
attended another church inWillmar for 28 years, I can
honestly tell you that I'veadmired the work of you as a
pastor with Cindy right by yourside.
And something I've greatlyadmired is exactly what you just
talked about.
Your ability to have humbleconfidence for Christ.
(17:23):
It was so clear to me when Iwould listen to your sermons or
watch you preach that you wereone of everyone.
You weren't better.
You weren't this.
You weren't that.
You made people feel, as yougave us all of those examples,
that everyone is part of thelarger church body and no person
(17:44):
is better than the next.
And I think that your abilityto lead that team at AG and be
that pastor, that not only couldyou preach, like it was
nobody's business, an amazingpreacher, but you've had a gift
(18:05):
of humble confidence and you'velived for an audience of one.
And you've made everyone feelthat nobody's better than the
next and we're all equal inChrist.
And I really commend you foryour leadership as a pastor,
leadership in the community.
And that's really how you'veserved that community.
(18:25):
I have one interesting questionas an auctioneer that might not
be interesting to the peoplethat are watching and listening,
but we admire, I think thehighest calling is being a
pastor.
I really do.
And I just talked about peoplenot being better than people,
but to be a pastor or amissionary, you sit at the the
(18:50):
highest rung of life's work.
When you were on that stage andyou're in the middle of your
sermon, were you ever thinkingin the back of your mind, I'll
tell you as an auctioneer allthese decades, I would be
outwardly having a conversationwith the audience.
I'd be selling an item, but atthe back of my mind, I might be
(19:10):
thinking something completelydifferent.
Like, Pastor Keith, this itemis not selling well.
This item's selling amazing.
I'm doing good.
I'm not doing good.
This is an amazingorganization.
The crowd, it's not about me,but the mission has the crowd in
the palm of their hands or, ohmy gosh, they're not feeling the
(19:31):
mission.
As an auctioneer, you'respeaking one thing, but you
might be thinking the completeopposite.
When you were on that stage forall those decades, And I want
to remind you, your work willnever be forgotten.
It'll never be forgotten.
And the impact, the profoundimpact that you and Cindy have
had.
But did you ever pinch yourselfand did you ever take yourself
(19:55):
back to when you were a kid or ayoung adult and you said, I'm
not going to find myself in coldMinnesota.
I'm not going to find myself inthe church.
Here you're standing with me.
A ton of people listening toyou with that humble confidence
for the Lord.
Did you ever think in the backof your mind, oh my gosh, Lord,
(20:18):
you have such a sense of humorand look at all the yeses I've
said yes to.
And wow, have you amazed meChrist for your kingdom?
Speaker 01 (20:29):
Honestly, most of the time when I was preaching,
if I had a thought in the backof my mind, it was, is my zipper
up?
But yeah, I mean, it is amazinghow your mind can multitask
while you're speaking.
And yes, I had those momentswhere I, it was almost surreal.
(20:53):
It was almost like, Lord, Ican't believe you took this kid
and somehow got to here.
And I'll tell you where itoften hit me was like on Easter.
Yeah.
And which is, there's justsomething Easter and especially
a good Friday.
I mean, people love Easter and,and what it represents.
(21:14):
My favorite is good Friday, myfavorite service, my favorite
time.
You talk about humility and Imean, that's, that's just the
whole nature of the thing.
But, but that weekend, that'sthat time.
And, and just, you see thechurch fill up and you're like,
(21:35):
Lord, I can't believe you trustme with this responsibility.
I can't believe that you trustme with your word.
You're trusting me with thesepeople.
Because I know I'm so often theman I'm tempted to be instead
of the man you created me to be.
I know who I am.
I know all this stuff.
(21:56):
And yet you've put me here.
And yeah, so it is surreal.
And you do have those thoughts.
And yeah.
And then sometimes you haveother thoughts that aren't as
positive.
Like I was preaching once and acell phone went off.
And so I just, I tried toignore it, you know.
(22:17):
And normally when a cell phonegoes off, you have this sense of
somebody's like, you know,activity because they're trying
to shut it off.
But I couldn't sense any ofthat.
And it rang.
You know, no one cut it off.
It just rang.
So, okay, we just went on.
30 seconds later, rings again.
The whole ringtone.
(22:37):
And again, in my mind, as I'mspeaking, I'm going, do I
address this?
Do I say anything?
And I thought, nope, I'll stayover on this side.
It's ringing over here.
So I'm just going to stay onthis side of the thing.
30 seconds later,
Speaker 02 (22:50):
it rings
Speaker 01 (22:51):
again.
And now people are starting toreact.
They're starting to laugh.
They're looking at me like,what are you going to do?
And so I'm...
I'm walking over to that sideand in my head, I'm saying,
don't say anything you'll besorry for later.
You know, you don't know whatthe situation is.
And it stops.
I'm about to address it.
(23:12):
It starts to ring again.
And I realize it is my wife'scell phone.
on the front pew.
She was leading worship at thetime.
And what she would do is duringthe first service, she and her
team would go have coffee.
They'd stay in the secondservice, but first service while
I'm preaching, they would gohave coffee and she had left her
(23:34):
stuff behind.
So it's ringing.
And I just looked at everybodyand I said, that is my wife's
cell phone, which of course thenI've lost everybody by this
point.
I said, let's answer it, shallwe?
So I walked off the And I said,hello.
And it is Thomas, our youngestboy.
And she would go get thembetween services.
(23:55):
And he goes, dad.
I said, yeah.
He goes, is mom there?
I said, no, honey.
She's not.
He goes, dad.
I said, yeah.
He goes, I can't find my socks.
I said, you can't find yoursocks.
And you're, no.
I said, okay, well, you knowwhat?
I'm going to have, just stay bythe phone.
(24:16):
I'm going to have mom call you.
Okay.
I mean, there's justpandemonium in the place.
And I said, I'm pretty sure mywife is down in the kitchen with
somebody in like, you know, 50people get up.
I'll go.
Anything to get out of this,you know, and head down.
And so, yeah.
So there are times.
We had one time where we had anew custodian and I'm preaching,
(24:36):
just preaching my heart out.
We had water baptisms that day.
And he didn't know that youdon't unplug the baptistry
during the church service.
So the water's draining.
And when the last water drains,it makes this huge sucking
sound.
So I'm in the middle of mysermon with all of a sudden you
(25:01):
hear...
And I just have to stop and letthis thing happen.
So yeah, there are things thatgo on in your head or you see
things...
You know, fortunately, I can'tsee too much of what's going on
in the balcony, which isprobably good.
But you have those thoughts,your mind multitasks.
But most of the time, you know,you are focused on what's
(25:23):
happening.
And I only had one servicewhere my zipper actually was
down.
It just happened to be the lastservice my mother ever
attended.
My entire family was there forthe only time.
My brother, his wife, all mykids.
And nice job, Pastor Keith.
(25:43):
We're so proud of you.
Speaker 00 (25:45):
Is your mother still with us?
Speaker 01 (25:47):
No, she was 95.
We were celebrating herbirthday and Anna's birthday.
And then that was the lastservice she could be at.
And then she passed away a yearlater.
A few months later.
I
Speaker 00 (26:01):
can't imagine how proud she was.
A couple things that leads me.
Can I
Speaker 01 (26:05):
say something first?
Please do.
When you talked about thehighest calling, and I
understand what you're sayingthere, but I would tell you that
the highest calling in my lifeis husband and father.
And there was a time in myministry when I put pastor over
them.
So if my...
(26:27):
if my wife called or if my kidscalled and I was busy, I'd say,
you know, take a messagebecause I'm counseling somebody
or I'm doing this, I'm doingthat.
And it wasn't until later, andI felt so ashamed, but I was
talking with a colleague and hesaid, it's very important to me
that my family knows no one ismore important than they are.
(26:48):
So if they call, I answer.
Now, if I'm doing something, Imay say, if this is an
emergency, can I call you back,whatever?
And I thought, Oh, my heavens.
I have spent the last yearstelling my family, these people
are more important than theyare.
And that's not true.
(27:09):
And it's not right.
And so if my kids called, if Iwas in the middle of counseling
somebody, I said, hang on onesecond.
I just need to take this.
And same with my wife.
And that has always been myhighest calling.
Speaker 00 (27:29):
That's said well, and that's a very good reminder
to me.
And I'll tell you, PastorKeith, I too have made that
mistake over my career.
At 51 years old, I'm figuringthat out more and more with
time.
But there's been plenty ofyears, and I'm not proud of
this, that I've often put mywork unintentionally ahead of my
(27:50):
family.
And so I greatly appreciatethat reminder.
And that leads me to a thoughtthat I'm excited to ask you.
But I first want to share a bitof praise.
And you're not looking for mypraise, but I want to tell you
because it's a prompting andinspiring for all of us.
(28:13):
I already said it, but I wantto say it again.
What I'm so intrigued by isthroughout your life, you and
Cindy, you've been prompted andthen you've said yes.
And you've been prompted andyou've said yes.
And you've put that courageahead of that fear.
And I think one of the lessonsfor myself and our audience and
(28:34):
listeners is when we have thatprompting, and we know in our
heart and gut and prayers thatit's right to say yes.
And think of all that'shappened in your life and all
the lives that have beenaffected and all the ripple
effect that...
You've thrown a pebble andthrown a pebble and thrown a
(28:54):
pebble and said yes and yes andyes.
And no, you haven't done itperfectly.
And I haven't done itperfectly.
And no one does it perfectly.
And we're all afraid.
But if we can listen to thosepromptings, again, maybe it's an
act of encouragement.
Maybe it's an act of kindness.
Maybe it's that one next thingto do personally,
(29:15):
professionally, a relationship.
That is what you've modeled.
And with such a humble spiritand you've kept your heart in
the right spot.
So as you ended being a pastorat AG, and again, you're not
looking for my praise today.
It's from the bottom of myheart.
And I know I speak for a large,large audience in this
(29:37):
community that you have affectedtheir lives.
You will never know theprofound impact.
Cindy will never know.
Your family will never know.
the profound impact in ourcommunity and in the world.
It has been profound.
And it's all been for Christ inhis kingdom.
And so thank you, thank you.
(29:58):
But I want to tell you, PastorKeith, your work is not over.
Your work is not over.
You are not done.
I know, knowing you, as my dadwould say, at 82, Dale says, I'm
just getting started.
And keep that mantra in yourheart.
for Christ and his kingdom,you're still just getting
(30:22):
started.
And there's a lot of work as ahusband and a father and a
grandpa and a community leaderand a Christ follower.
Don't share with us anysecrets, but is there things
that you're excited about forthe future?
And I want to say, and ofcourse you're excited about your
(30:44):
family, but what has God doneWhat does God have you excited
about now?
Is there any promptings thatyou're thinking about that you
want to share with us?
And then lastly, I do want totalk about your service to the
community.
That's something you've donefor decades.
But talk about your life rightnow.
And I want to give you a pass.
(31:05):
If you're resting for once inyour life, that is great.
And that's a message for ustoo.
So if you're simply resting andbeing still with the Lord,
that's great.
equally beautiful, if not more.
Speaker 01 (31:19):
Well, one of the things that I felt like the Lord
laid on my heart was to helprural pastors, because most
people, you know, most of thechurches in America are a
hundred or less.
And so many rural pastors, it'sthem.
They don't have a staff, youknow, everything's up to them.
(31:40):
They look around and I justfeel like if there's a way that
I could come in and help themeither with pulpit relief or
just talking about myexperiences in the rural
community and how do you pastora community?
How do you work with people?
How do you set things up,mission, vision, working with
all those things?
(32:00):
Anything I can do to help.
So I'm right now helping achurch down in Folda, Minnesota.
I have to drive two hours.
but it's a church plant, it'sfive years old, and they're just
doing great.
The pastor's a young guy,former youth pastor, and I would
love to pour myself out andhelp these guys because they're
(32:22):
doing great things with theLord, for the Lord.
You know, sometimes we do greatthings for the Lord and it's
not with the Lord, you know,it's like our thing.
And we think, Oh Lord, you'regoing to love this, you know?
Uh, but you know, the, thefunny thing is you talked about
saying yes, we didn't always sayyes.
Uh, and I don't know if you'reaware of this, but when we first
(32:44):
were approached by Willmar, we,we, uh, interviewed and then we
said no to them.
Uh,
Speaker 00 (32:52):
even makes the story better.
Speaker 01 (32:53):
Yeah.
And what happened was we went,we went home and, And thought
people would be like happy, hey,you're not leaving.
But there was just no peace andrelationships.
And I had an 88-year-old prayerpartner from Latvia named
Lydia.
Came through World War II,displaced person, just
(33:16):
incredible.
Lived in the same house inBloomington since the late 40s.
And I would go to her house forlunch on Thursdays.
And, uh, basically we'd openthe Bible.
I'd say, well, Lydia, what'sthe Lord been saying to you
lately?
And then she talked the rest ofthe time.
And, uh, so this Thursday afterwe had said, no, we're sitting.
(33:39):
And I said, you know, I, wesaid no to Willmar and, and told
her all the reasons why.
And she looked at me and shegoes,
Speaker 02 (33:50):
Hmm,
Speaker 01 (33:52):
sounds like Abraham doesn't want to put Isaac on the
altar.
And I thought, can I say shutup to an 88-year-old lady?
But all the reasons that I hadgiven her were kind of the
earthly, you know, we're in thecities.
Do we really want to go toWillmar?
(34:13):
You know, blah, blah, blah,blah.
All those things.
They were all things that were,you know, in the natural,
materialistic, not seeing thebig picture.
And boy, that just stung.
That really stung.
And we ended up calling Willmarback because they had said, we
think you're the guy, so we'renot going to continue our
(34:34):
process.
And so all these things keptlining up.
When we said no, God said,yeah, but, yeah, but.
And so we finally said yes.
Speaker 00 (34:44):
Then when she said yes, did she say anything?
Or when you said yes, did shesay anything back to you?
Speaker 01 (34:50):
No, she was just, she knew what the right thing
was.
I mean, and Lydia was, she wasa wonderful lady and a great
example of perseverance.
I mean, her story, I shared herstory in church once.
I can't take the time here, butit's just amazing what she went
through during World War II andafterwards to get to where she
(35:13):
was.
Well,
Speaker 00 (35:15):
and when I think of that and you share about her
story, You know, it'sinteresting.
They often say we become thesum of the people that we hang
out with and the mentors that wesurround ourselves with.
If we had more time, I'd loveto hear about the mentors in
your life.
Lydia being one of them.
(35:36):
I'd love to hear about thebooks that you love to read, the
podcasts that you love tolisten to.
Yeah.
because it's so fun to hear howyou've continued to sharpen
yourself.
Before we talk about serviceand your heart of serving the
Willmar community within AGChurch and outside of the
church, I want to ask you aninteresting question that I
(35:59):
sometimes ask myself, and I'mnot equating myself by any means
to a pastor, but leadership canbe lonely.
And I love people.
I have a lot of natural,natural joy.
But there's times thatleadership can be lonely.
(36:21):
How do you stay?
How have you stayed encouraged?
What encourages you?
And I know you have a ton ofpeople in your life that care
deeply, a lot of friends, a lotof family.
But you've spent decades, youand Cindy, encouraging and
walking alongside others.
without a spirit to beingbetter.
(36:42):
But at times, my guess is youcan feel empty from all of the
encouragement and you get yourencouragement from the Lord at
the end of the day.
But how do you and Cindy stayencouraged?
Speaker 01 (36:59):
First of all, encouraging each other.
I mean, it's great that we haveeach other and we know each
other and we know each other'srhythms.
And when that rhythm is off orthat rhythm needs encouragement
or whatever else.
So that's helpful.
And then you hit on it, justsurrounding ourselves with other
folks.
You know, leadership can belonely.
(37:20):
When I came to be the seniorpastor, I had been very involved
at my former church asexecutive pastor.
But there were still thingsthat I was...
not prepared for becoming thesenior pastor.
You just don't understand sortof what comes with that.
(37:41):
It's, again, one of thosethings you don't know that you
don't know.
And part of that is just, asyou said, kind of the
loneliness.
I mean, we made a lot ofdecisions, consensus as staff,
but the reality is the bookstops here.
And one of the things thathelped me was when I learned the
(38:05):
difference between pressure andstress.
Because they both, you know,when you're in a difficult
situation, you feel pressure.
And the difference is when youdon't know what to do, you're in
a difficult situation and youjust don't know what to do.
That is stressful.
(38:26):
Okay.
When you're in a difficultsituation, but you do know what
to do.
That's a pressure, okay?
And I feel like for most of myministry career, I may have been
under pressure, but didn'texperience a lot of stress
because I knew what to do.
And that was the first thing isyou inquire of the Lord.
(38:48):
Okay, Lord, it's your ministry,your people, your family, you
know, what do you want done?
And then you move off in thatway.
That makes such a difference.
The other thing I think that'sreally important for leaders to
understand is, to me, there's anumber one purpose for being a
(39:14):
leader.
I mean, leadership, there's somany things.
You could spend a podcasttalking about leadership and all
the aspects of leadership.
But to me, and maybe peopledon't agree with me, but I think
there's one thing Thatabsolutely has to be true.
If you're going to be a leader,you have to be a person who
gives hope more than anythingelse.
(39:37):
Because if you're a leader thatdoesn't provide hope, where are
your people going?
What are they going to do?
People, you know, without hope,people just, they lose heart.
And so I always wanted to besomeone, regardless of the
situation, hey, we have hope.
We, you know, Hope is themelody of the future and faith
(40:00):
allows us to dance to it today.
And that was kind of ourapproach.
So let's make sure as leadersthat we are hopeful and that way
we can then extend that hope toothers.
Speaker 00 (40:14):
I love that.
That is so, so encouraging anda wonderful reminder to myself
and all of us to extend hope.
and what that does for thepeople that we surround
ourselves with.
I want to tell you too thatwhen you talk about pressure,
another great nugget that you'veshared, let's call it a pebble
(40:36):
today, that you didn't carry thepressure yourself.
You said, Lord, I'm going togive you the pressure.
I'm going to give you theweight.
And then I'm going to listen toyou and I'm going to try to
surrender to you.
And when we try to carry itourselves, boy, is it a heavy
load.
But when we surrender, now I'mjust as guilty as the next.
(41:00):
This is something I'mcontinually working on is
surrendering and not carryingthe weight in my humanness, but
giving that weight up andletting him carry the weight.
And boy, does that make it amore joyful, peaceful
experience.
lighter load.
And I so appreciate you sharingthat.
There's a difference
Speaker 01 (41:20):
between surrender and commitment.
And it's very nuanced becausethey're both a good thing.
You know, I make a commitment.
But when I make a commitment,I'm in charge of that.
I decide how long thatcommitment is going to be, how
much of a commitment I'm goingto make, all sorts of things.
When you surrender, you're notin charge of anything.
(41:43):
And We're asked to surrender.
Now you're right.
Nobody surrenders perfectly,but it's the attitude.
It says, you know, cause what'sthe sign of surrender?
You put your hands up and now,you know, whoever you surrender
to is in charge of who you areand where you go and what you
(42:03):
do.
And so we've, we've tried toadopt that attitude of surrender
and even more than commitment.
I know we often in church, wetalk about commitment, we ask
for commitments.
Again, nothing wrong with that.
But ultimately what the Lord islooking for is surrender.
And you want to get to thatnext level of faith.
(42:24):
It takes that surrender.
It's like water baptism.
When you go back, we tellpeople, hold on to your nose and
like this, because your naturalinclination is you want to put
your hands out and stop becauseit's such a helpless feeling.
When you go back in the water,you just feel totally helpless.
And I think that's intentionalbecause it's that attitude of
(42:49):
you're now surrendering yourlife to the Lord.
Speaker 00 (42:51):
Thank you.
Excellent, excellent.
You know what I should havedone at the beginning of this?
Is just said, hey, let's startwith a 30-minute sermon.
Because...
You
Speaker 01 (43:08):
want to lose your audience?
Yes, go ahead and do that.
Speaker 00 (43:12):
You are so, so blessed with the ability to
teach.
The ability to teach.
Thank you so much.
You have like...
So the other thing asidefrom...
Again, I talked about you beinga Christ follower and a husband
and a dad and a grandpa and afriend to many and a pastor for
(43:34):
all these decades.
And then...
We could talk for the nextthree hours about your heart of
service.
I don't even know where tostart.
So there's so many amazingthings as to what you've done in
your life.
And I appreciate how you'vestepped out in courage.
(43:56):
You're confident.
You're humble.
You give all glory to the Lord.
I want you to take this in theAnd our kids went to the
(44:25):
programs at our church, but ourkids also went to the programs
at your church.
And I was just amazed, hundredsand hundreds.
Like, again, there's so much wecould say today about the good
of your years at AG Church.
But one crazy, amazing examplethat I just can't get over is is
(44:50):
the JAM program.
Speaker 01 (44:52):
Yeah, it used to be VBS.
Now we call it Summer JAM.
Speaker 00 (44:55):
Summer JAM.
And then I think about what youdid to walk alongside people
during COVID.
You take this in whateverdirection your heart wants to
share today.
But my point is, Pastor Keith,is back to that heart of
service, back to those yeses.
You could have just sat on thecouch with Cindy and instead you
(45:17):
said, nope, we're going to,We're going to have jam.
And then God bless that.
And that just went crazy.
Then you said, no, it's COVID.
We're not going to just sit onthe couch.
We're going to do this and thisand this and this.
And that's where not only arewe so grateful and the ripples
in the community we cannotmeasure, but what intrigues me
(45:39):
about you and where we'reinspired for all of us listening
and watching and myself to takethat next step of obedience is
You said all these yeses andyou've done all these things
within the church and outside ofthe church.
Just share whatever you'd liketo share.
But I want to thank you onbehalf of our community for, I
(46:04):
can't even articulate howspecial and the difference that
it's made in the lives ofothers.
Speaker 01 (46:09):
It starts with a biblical foundation.
You know, when John says, andJesus washes the disciples'
feet.
No one else is coming forward.
So he says, you know, I'll doit.
And then he says, you know,what I have done is an example
for you.
You need to be washing eachother's feet.
And when you do things likethat, he says, you will be
(46:31):
blessed.
So who doesn't want to beblessed?
So if I serve others and one ofour values of the church is
serving is our privilege.
So right away, there's animmediate, Wow, it almost feels
selfish.
Like I get blessed.
But then when you serve others,then you help them see the
(46:52):
value God has placed on them.
So when we serve, when we doour summer jam and we have 600
kids there and a lot of them arenot from our church and you
can't believe some of the homesituations these kids are coming
from.
And we believe it's easier tobuild a kid than to fix an
adult.
Okay.
(47:12):
So we get a chance for a weekto love on these kids and they
get to see that they're lovable.
They're valuable.
They're acceptable.
A message that they may nothear a lot, you know, at home at
times.
And so it's just a privilegefor us that we, again, people
get to see their value.
When COVID came, you know, it'slike, okay, God, what do you
(47:34):
want us to do?
Well, one of the things we didis we established a long
distance learning center.
We had our epic building.
And I talked to the schoolofficials and they said, as long
as you do everything accordingto our standards, we'll support
this.
And so we had to have people,you know, so much separation.
We had volunteers in that camein and tutored kids anywhere
(48:00):
from elementary to high school.
And so we did the long distancelearning center and set that
up.
And then that Easter, Just feltimpressed.
And this was spur of themoment.
I should have talked to myboard ahead of time, but they
were very gracious.
And I just said, as we receivedthe offer, and we were outside,
(48:22):
you know, the service wasoutside.
I said, everything that yougive today, we're going to turn
around the entire offering we'regoing to give to Crossroads
Counseling.
because they are beingoverwhelmed.
You know, COVID, the mentalhealth issues just rose
tragically and they were beingoverwhelmed.
(48:43):
And so we were able to give anoffering of $45,000 just to
crossroads to say, if you needto hire more people, you know,
whatever you need to do, ifpeople can't afford, then this
will pay for that and that sortof deal.
So, those are just the types ofthings, you know, you want to
(49:03):
meet a need.
When you serve people, there'san aspect of mercy.
You know, those two gifts kindof come together.
And mercy, you know, asks onequestion.
It doesn't ask, you know, well,do they deserve it?
Mercy simply asks, do theysuffer?
And if they do, then we need todo something about it.
(49:28):
So.
So that's been a lot of fun.
We tried to, one of our, again,one of my cultural values,
speed of leader, speed of theteam.
And so as a pastoral staff, wehad...
service projects.
We tried to have at least one amonth where we would go out and
just as a group do something.
So we went to Bethesda a numberof times.
(49:49):
We painted stuff for them.
We put garden boxes together.
When Lakeland was opening up,we went and helped teachers
physically set up theirclassrooms, putting desks up and
things like that.
I have a list of things.
We did the Hope for the City.
We distributed food, foodshelf.
When they do the producedistribution, we'd help with
(50:11):
that we had a single mom.
We have a single mom's ministryat the church.
Most of the moms that comedon't attend our church.
So it's a great way to reachout.
And one of them who did attendour church, we knew about, she
was a teacher down at BirdIsland in the elementary.
And so we went down and paintedher classroom.
They didn't have any money forrenovation stuff.
(50:32):
So we were able to paint herclassroom real bright colors and
a lot of fun for her.
And so we just tried to dothings like that, tried to find
ways that we could be anencouragement to the people
around us.
And then when we also wantedour church to know that we're
not asking you to do anythingthat we wouldn't do ourselves.
And then, you know, we had thelarger things with the, We
(50:58):
helped out.
We had sent over teams whenthey built Destination
Playground at Robbins Island andjust want to be part.
We didn't want to just askpeople to join us.
We wanted to go out and join.
What's happening?
What are you doing?
How can we be part of that?
I told our church, I would loveto get us to the point where
(51:18):
you couldn't write an accuratehistory of Willmar without
including the AG Church becausewe just wanted to be good
partners.
Probably one of the mostimpactful things we did was, you
know, we did our Night of MusicChristmas performance.
And when I got here, I thought,you know...
They said, this is our bigevangelical outreach, but 90% of
(51:44):
the people that come areChristians.
So really, I don't know howgreat the outreach was.
I said, but let's turn aroundand use this then for God's
glory.
Let's make it a blessing.
So when I came, I said, we aregoing to receive a free will
offering, but we're going togive it away.
We're not going to keep it tooffset our expenses.
We'll pick a communityorganization every year and give
(52:05):
it away.
And until we got knocked out ofthe box by COVID, that's what
we did.
So whether it was Safe Avenuesor Whole Pregnancy Center or
Salvation Army, or we even setsomething up with the county
where they set up a new fundthat they didn't have.
They called it the GoodNeighbors Fund because it came
(52:25):
from our church.
And so in that time, we wereable to give away about $335,000
to the community over thoseyears.
So that's something that we'vejust enjoyed and we've heard a
lot of ripple effect back.
And there's just a lot ofthings that we've tried to do
(52:48):
with the schools, partneringwith businesses, partnering with
other nonprofits, partneringwith other churches, I met
regularly with your pastor andthe pastor from Living Hope and
the pastor from First Covenant.
We met on a monthly basisbecause we knew we were better
(53:09):
together.
Speaker 02 (53:09):
And
Speaker 01 (53:10):
we tried to do things, where can we converge?
Where can we have this sort ofenergy that we can come together
and be better together than weare now?
And so that's been fun as well,just serving with other
(53:32):
churches together.
Speaker 00 (53:35):
Well, and again, your heart for service, that
you've modeled, Pastor Keith,not only with your staff, as
when you were the senior pastorat AG, with your parishioners,
modeling that in the community,modeling that today, visiting,
like...
that overall arching heart forservice is...
(54:00):
It
Speaker 01 (54:03):
needs to be a lifestyle, not an activity.
I mean, if you look in thescriptures, Jesus didn't say,
hey, do you have a few sparehours
Speaker 00 (54:13):
that
Speaker 01 (54:13):
you could give me?
Speaker 00 (54:14):
That's so true.
Speaker 01 (54:15):
But he said, would you follow me?
And so when you make it alifestyle, It just changes
everything because now you'renot worried about somebody
taking advantage of you oryou're not weighing the cost.
You're not doing all thethings.
I mean, yeah, in our humanness,do we still do some of that
(54:37):
stuff?
We do.
But it gets outweighed by thebiblical mandate that says, hey,
love your neighbor as yourself.
Speaker 00 (54:47):
You bet.
Speaker 01 (54:49):
There's
Speaker 00 (54:49):
a hundred questions that I'd love to ask you.
Maybe a thousand, truthfully,but...
So there's just two more thingsI want to touch on today for
your time and the time of ourlisteners.
But this has been fascinating.
And you've inspired me today.
You've spoke to me.
(55:09):
The nuggets that you've sharedwith me will sharpen me as a
person.
And I'm a big believer thatiron sharpens iron.
And that's one of the greatreasons of the why behind this.
Thank you so much.
But that is who you are withinyour home, in your own family.
(55:51):
It's what you're modelingwithin your own family.
Speaker 01 (55:54):
Well, you have a coffee problem.
I also have a coffee problem.
That is, I don't like coffee.
And that's one reason why Ithought I could never be a
pastor because whoever heard ofa pastor doesn't drink coffee.
But anyway, I think one of thethings that was very important
for me is that for my family,that the person they saw, behind
(56:16):
the pulpit was the same personwho walked in the door.
Speaker 00 (56:20):
Wow.
Speaker 01 (56:21):
So they didn't feel like we're putting something on
for people out there.
But when you come home, you'rea totally different person.
And I tried to warn the churchin the same way about that is,
listen, I'm going to be theperson in front of you that I am
at home.
And so that may not alwayswork.
(56:42):
Worked in well for you as well.
And I think that genuineness,that authenticity that the kid,
cause it's tough being apastor's kid.
I don't think I necessarilyunderstood, recognized at times
what my kids maybe went through,you know, being the, you know,
(57:07):
and especially, you're not justa pastor's kid, but, you know,
of that church, you know, thePentecostal church, the wacky
church, you know, they'reswinging on chandeliers and, you
know, all that stuff, which, bythe way, we stopped doing that
a long time ago.
So now.
I
Speaker 00 (57:22):
love that reminder.
And that's one of the reasons,Pastor Keith, that I wanted to
visit with you is because thatis who you are.
You ooze authenticity.
You are so real authentic.
whether it's back in yourpreaching days, just very a
short time ago, or in cash-wise,you ooze authenticity.
(57:44):
And I love the reminder to allof us, try to live your life the
same at work as you do at homeand vice versa and how we can
model that.
I have one fun last questionfor you.
Okay, shoot.
But before I ask you this, Iwant to sincerely thank you for
(58:05):
the time, the heart, thesharing.
I want to thank you again foryour leadership, your pastoral
work, the man you are, thehusband you are, the dad, the
grandpa, the friend.
It goes on and on and on.
The living
Speaker 01 (58:20):
legend, basically,
Speaker 00 (58:20):
is what you're saying.
The living legend, truthfully.
You're so humble, and I...
I speak for a large communityof people that has been greatly
impacted by you and your family.
And I sincerely mean that.
And I'm just extremely gratefulfor all of the ripples that you
(58:41):
have casted that we've alreadytalked about.
So many we haven't talked aboutthat you'll never be able to
measure.
And so a sincere thank you foryour work, who you are.
Greet Cindy and the continuedwork that you're doing and will
do.
It's far from over.
It's far from over.
So just very, very thankful forwho you are and the impact that
(59:04):
you've had.
And just listening to you andwhat we've learned today will
continue to have an impact onthe lives of others.
But I'd like you to have theopportunity to throw out the
last pebble.
What would you like to share toleave our audience that is
watching and listening?
You've already told us so manygreat things to think about that
(59:27):
have sharpened us, but is thereanything else that you would
like us to hear today that willleave an impact on our thinking?
And as you're thinking, Ihaven't memorized this yet, but
Mother Teresa, I didn't evenrealize when we...
When we thought of the name OnePebble Podcast, I didn't even
(59:50):
realize this till after thefact, but Mother Teresa is
someone that I've alwaysadmired.
She's been one of my manyheroes.
And here's what Mother Teresasaid, I alone cannot change the
world, but I can cast a stoneacross the water to create many
ripples.
And That is just who you'vebeen, who Cindy's been, and
(01:00:14):
that's really the intentionbehind your life.
Is there one last pebble thatyou would like to throw out for
us to
Speaker 01 (01:00:22):
consider?
Sure, and I think Mother Teresais a great example of this, and
that is humility is really thepreparation for service.
I mean, if you go in to serveand you don't have, it's hard to
wash feet in a judge's robe.
You know, you have to behumble.
(01:00:44):
You have to recognize that thisis God's calling.
I remember the story of D.L.
Moody.
It was like the greatestevangelist in the 19th century.
He had this big conference.
He brought over all thesepastors from England.
And at night, the first night,They all put their shoes out in
the hall because they were usedto, in England, they have what
(01:01:06):
they called hall servants.
They would come and they wouldpolish and clean the shoes
overnight and put them back inplace.
Well, this was America.
There were no hall servants.
And when Moody realized whatwas happening, he collected, the
greatest evangelist, the guysputting on the conference, he
collected the shoes personallyand in his room overnight.
(01:01:26):
cleaned and polished.
And the only reason the secretgot out was a friend visited him
and said, what are you doing?
And, and he put, he cleaned allthe shoes, he put them all back
and none of his guests knew.
They just assumed that the hallservants did this, but it, but
it was him.
And that's humility and motherTeresa.
(01:01:48):
And, you know, a lot of ourgreat leaders, they're, you
know, oftentimes are put inroles where they have to take
charge or be in authority.
And you don't necessarily seethe humility, but that's the
preparation to be able to takeon that role and to do it well,
(01:02:09):
to do it in a godly fashion.
So I think, you know, the Biblesays humility comes before
honor.
And so that's a...
For me, I suppose that's thegreat starting point is making
sure that your heart is right.
Your heart is humble.
And then it's, Lord, where doyou want to go?
(01:02:30):
So that's my word.
A
Speaker 00 (01:02:32):
wonderful reminder to keep our heart in the right
place.
Yep.
Pastor Keith, it's been a joy.
Yes.
Thank you for sharing.
Speaker 01 (01:02:38):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 00 (01:02:41):
All the best.
Speaker 01 (01:02:42):
I'll be watching.
Speaker 00 (01:02:43):
Yes.
Thank you.
We're grateful.
Unknown (01:02:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 00 (01:02:48):
This has been the One Pebble Podcast.
One pebble, so many ripples.
What will you do to make adifference?
This is the One Pebble Podcast.
I'm your host, Kristine.
Welcome to the One PebblePodcast.
It is my great joy and honortoday to have guest Pastor Keith
Kerstetter.
Pastor Keith, thank you so muchfor saying yes and being a part
(00:26):
of the One Pebble Podcast.
Kristine,
Speaker 01 (00:28):
thanks for having me.
This is going to be a hoot.
Speaker 00 (00:31):
It's going to be a hoot and I'm really excited to
get into your heart and who youare and learn so much more about
you today.
I want to first read your bioso I and the listeners can
become more familiar with whoyou are.
You have a liberal arts degreefrom Grove City College, a
(00:52):
master's degree from IndianaUniversity in Pennsylvania.
Your work history is you were adirector of juvenile court in
Charleston, South Carolina,community education
administrator from Hopkins,Minnesota, business
administrator and executivepastor in Bloomington AG, and
(01:12):
formerly our senior pastor hereat Willmar AG.
You accepted Christ in yourearly 30s.
You're married to the lovelyCindy, who I know, and you were
married in 1988.
You have four kids, three boysthat are married.
Your youngest, Anna, is ajunior at Dort College.
(01:34):
Five grandkids, three in Tulsaand two here in Farmington,
Minnesota.
I want to talk a little bitabout your service.
You've been a person thathas...
Thank you so much for joiningus.
(01:55):
The YMCA Board, Salvation ArmyBoard, Bethesda Foundation
Board, Willmar MinisterialLeadership, and currently on the
Food Shelf Board.
(02:16):
Wow, that is a lot of serviceto our community.
So we're super excited to haveyou.
And I have to tell you, myheart behind doing this podcast
is I love, love the heart andstories of people.
And what makes people tick andpeople that are doing good in
(02:38):
the world.
And you and your wife, Cindy,are people that I've long
identified as do-gooders.
You just go out and you castpebbles and make a difference.
And we're super grateful foryour leadership.
And all the ripples that you'vecreated here in the Willmar
community that have spread farand wide.
(02:59):
And I dare to say ripples thathave spread across the world.
Speaker 01 (03:03):
Thank you.
And you know what?
This is such a good fit for youbecause this is who you are.
I mean, you...
We have watched you.
You say you watched us.
Well, we have watched you.
I've been at so many activitieswhere you have volunteered and
come and helped ministries raisemoney.
And you're like a forcemultiplier because, you know, I
(03:25):
know they set their goal andthey think we're going to make
this much.
And by the time you're done,they have made this much and get
the chance then to be far moresuccessful in what they're doing
and serving our community.
So thank you for everythingyou've done.
Speaker 00 (03:40):
That's so kind of you I am really excited about
(04:13):
this podcast.
And again,
Speaker 01 (04:15):
that fits you to a T.
You're the type of person thatpeople feel better about
themselves when they're withyou.
I don't know if you understandthat, but that's true.
And I think every guest thatyou have on here would say the
same thing.
So I feel better about
Speaker 00 (04:33):
myself right now.
That's very kind.
Thank you.
I want to say somethingsincerely to you, and I want you
to receive my words.
I've thought about them formany days now, and hopefully I
won't get a little bit chokedup.
And these words are not only toyou, Pastor Keith, but equally
to your wife.
You've made a difference in thelives of countless people.
(04:54):
You have walked in your callingand you've lived out your
faith.
My husband, Jamie, and I, wehave admired you for decades.
Your daughter Anna and our sonHarris went to preschool
together.
They're now juniors in college.
I don't know where those yearshave gone.
You've been a pastor for many,many, many years.
(05:17):
A community leader, a Christfollower, a husband, a father, a
grandpa, a friend to many, andthe list goes on and on.
When I think about the whybehind this podcast and why I
wanted you to come on and learnmore about you and share your
story, is we can all throw apebble to create a large ripple
(05:38):
effect.
We do not have to change theworld in a big way, but we can
all do good.
We can find good with intentionand make a difference.
I'm always amazed and inspiredby how one decision, one act of
courage, one act ofencouragement or kindness, or
simply doing the one thing youwere prompted to do can often
(06:03):
create...
large ripples and sometimes forgenerations.
And again, this isn't to makeyou feel good.
It's just simply the truth.
That is the man you've beenalongside of your wife as a team
with intention.
That's what you two have donefor decades.
So now we're excited to learnmore about you and who you are
(06:26):
and hear your heart and beinspired by the intention.
Speaker 01 (06:29):
Thank you.
I appreciate those words.
Speaker 00 (06:32):
So If you would, I would love you to share, start
by sharing some of your story.
Maybe start when you wereyounger.
And in a couple minutes, canyou tell us more, aside from
your bio, which is veryimpressive, share with us some
(06:53):
of your story.
Speaker 01 (06:53):
Well, quickly, I was raised in Pennsylvania and we
went to church every Sunday.
Inter-Presbyterian Church.
But I didn't understand abouthaving a personal relationship
with Jesus.
Nothing stuck.
And so as soon as I was out ofthat house, I was out of church.
I got my master's degree.
(07:15):
Wasn't sure where I wanted toland.
All I knew was I wanted to getout of winter.
So I packed up all my stuff andeverything I couldn't fit in my
Mazda station wagon.
I gave away.
I moved to South Carolinawithout a job, without a place
to stay.
Found a roommate, startedmowing grass, ended up getting a
(07:36):
job with the state of SouthCarolina, and ultimately became
the director of juvenile courtin Charleston, which was all the
intake.
So we covered everything from akid who was truant from school
to a kid who murdered somebody.
And then also supervisedprobation after they got out of
institutions.
(07:57):
And I found that I did not wantto do that for the rest of my
life.
I was involved with a woman.
She was from Minnesota.
She wanted to move back home,which was tough for me because
when I moved to South Carolina,I made two vows, Kristine.
I would never be in winteragain, and I would never be in
church again.
I ended up as a pastor inMinnesota.
(08:19):
So I figured out, okay, God,that's how it works.
So I've said, God, I'll neverbe rich.
And I'm still waiting on thatone.
But anyway...
So we moved to Minnesota,again, without a job, without a
place to stay, figured it out.
I got a job with the HopkinsSchool District.
And it was during that timethat I started attending
(08:40):
Bloomington Assembly andeverything was just different.
I had been pretty closed as anindividual emotionally.
So kind of tap danced aroundrelationships because I was
afraid for people to see thereal me.
that maybe they wouldn't likethe real me.
And when I realized who Jesuswas and what he did for me and
(09:03):
how much he loved me,regardless, it just, there was a
freedom that came over me whenI realized that it wasn't just
me searching for Jesus.
He'd been searching for me thiswhole time.
And that's what was missing inmy life because I was in danger
of repeating the same year overand over and over again.
I realized something had tochange and it was Jesus.
(09:25):
And once I accepted Christ,man, things happened in a rush.
And I met my wife at church andwe got married and then I got
baptized.
And then we started having kidsand made friends for a life.
I call them 2 a.m.
friends.
You know, who can you call at 2a.m.?
And they won't yell at you.
(09:45):
They won't hang it.
They'll just say, what do youneed?
Okay.
And I went from having no 2a.m.
friends to having more than Ican shake a stick at.
And ultimately felt the call ofGod on my life.
Didn't know what that meantbecause I thought, well, I can't
be a pastor.
I mean, I haven't done anythingpastoral in my life, but I've
(10:08):
been an administrator.
And then I realized I could bea business administrator at a
church.
And it just turned out that myhome church, was changing
pastors.
He was looking for a newbusiness administrator.
And it was like God workedeverything out.
I didn't have to leave mychurch.
I didn't have to leave home.
I didn't have to go for extraschooling at that point.
I just became the businessadministrator.
(10:29):
And then at some point in thatjob, the pastor said, I see a
pastor in you.
Speaker 00 (10:39):
You just gave me goosebumps.
Speaker 01 (10:43):
That surprised me because, again, to that point, I
hadn't spoken.
I hadn't taught a class.
I hadn't counseled anybody.
I was an administrator.
So we hired anotheradministrator, and I went over
on the pastoral side, and Ithought, well, I need to do
something pastoral to...
you know, justify my position.
So I said, I guess I'll start aSunday school class.
(11:04):
And so I started a class calledthe James Gang.
It was for people that I felt Icould relate to, the people
that they weren't sure wherethey fit, because I never was
sure before Jesus, I was neversure where I fit.
And the class just grew andgrew.
We got to a class of about 200.
They had to keep changingrooms.
(11:25):
And then it became clear that,okay, maybe that's part of your
gifting, that you have theopportunity to put things
together and share and be partof people's transformation.
And at some point then, weloved our time there.
We were there 11 years, thoughtwe'd probably retire there.
But God took Bloomington out ofour heart and ended up putting
(11:51):
Willmar in.
We came out to Willmar and thenwe've been here for 23 years.
And this is our home.
And even though we're retired,we're hoping that at some point
we'll go back and be part of thebody at Willmar AG and just be
the best supporters of the newpastor that we can be.
Speaker 00 (12:13):
It's just amazing when I think of what you just
told us and how you neverthought that you would ever be a
pastor.
and how one step led to thenext and the next and the
Speaker 01 (12:28):
next.
There are people who are stillsurprised that I'm a pastor and
some are in my family,
Speaker 00 (12:34):
by the way.
And you just kept listening tothe promptings, but you had to
say yes to the call, PastorKeith.
And what you had to do thatamazes me and inspires me so
much about people.
And I think one of the reasonswhy I'm excited about sharing
people's stories and your storyis We all have fear.
I have fear.
(12:55):
We all have fear.
But you put your courage aheadof your fear.
And you said, Lord, here we go.
Can you speak more to that?
I'm sure there was times thatyou were afraid and excited, but
you just knew, I need to walkin this calling and live out
(13:18):
this faith.
And you said, It sounds so easywhen you tell the story
backwards, but it took courageand it took listening to those
promptings.
Speaker 01 (13:31):
Well, it helps when you're too stupid to realize
maybe what all the things thatare going on and you just
blindly say, okay, Lord, here wego.
I think so often when I saidyes, I didn't know what I didn't
know.
And you just trust the Lordthat say, okay.
This is, you know, the resultsare up to you.
(13:51):
I'll say, yes, I'll do thethings you tell me to do, but
you're responsible for theresults.
And I think that's been ourapproach all, all along.
And that takes a lot of thepressure off.
Um, and Lord, it's up to you.
I did what you said you wantedme to do.
I did this.
I went to Willmar.
(14:12):
We did this.
We took a step of faith hereand, uh, And that's just what we
need to do.
And if I could say anything toanybody, it's, it's just that,
you know, sometimes we're likethe Impala, the Impala can jump
30 feet, but he won't, he won'tjump if he can't see where he's
(14:32):
going to land.
And I learned, I, I just can'tbe an Impala and be a true
Christ follower.
I, I just have to jump andfigure out the Lord's going to
land me where he's going to landme.
Unknown (14:46):
Hmm.
Speaker 00 (14:47):
I love that.
That is so true how we, most ofthe time, we want to know where
we're going to land.
We want to be in control and wedon't want to jump until it's
calculated and we know theresults.
But I think that stepping outin faith, as you and Cindy have
done for a lifetime, it has,again, the impact for Christ and
(15:13):
his kingdom is has beenimmeasurable by the decisions
Speaker 01 (15:18):
that you've made.
The other thing I would say isit's a lot easier to step out in
faith when you are part of acommunity and you surround
yourself with people who arelike-minded, people who want the
same thing that you do, peoplethat you have a vital
relationship with, people thatyou can be yourself with,
that...
the people who are closest toyou end up loving and respecting
(15:40):
you the most.
It's just so much easier tomove forward then because you
feel like, okay, I'm not doingthis alone.
I'm part of a team.
And that's huge becauseeverybody wants to feel like
they belong somewhere.
And that's one of the greatthings that I learned in
ministry.
(16:00):
And one of the things that Ithink that has informed my wife
and I is that There are so manypeople out there that they're
just not sure where they belong.
And we wanted to create aculture at our church that said,
if you're not sure where youbelong, you belong here.
And when I look at the makeupof the church over the years, I
(16:22):
feel like we were at leastpartially successful in doing
that.
Because if you would go to thechurch, you would see...
Every age, every economicstatus, every type of dress, a
good ethnic diversity.
I mean, it was just peoplecoming out of jail, coming out
(16:44):
of rehab, people coming off ofGreen Lake.
I mean, it was just, we allcame together.
And that's kind of what theearly church was.
It was master and slavetogether.
No titles, no distinction.
Everybody just coming togetherto worship the Lord.
And that's what we wanted.
Unknown (17:00):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 00 (17:00):
I will say to you, Pastor Keith, although I have
attended another church inWillmar for 28 years, I can
honestly tell you that I'veadmired the work of you as a
pastor with Cindy right by yourside.
And something I've greatlyadmired is exactly what you just
talked about.
Your ability to have humbleconfidence for Christ.
(17:23):
It was so clear to me when Iwould listen to your sermons or
watch you preach that you wereone of everyone.
You weren't better.
You weren't this.
You weren't that.
You made people feel, as yougave us all of those examples,
that everyone is part of thelarger church body and no person
(17:44):
is better than the next.
And I think that your abilityto lead that team at AG and be
that pastor, that not only couldyou preach, like it was
nobody's business, an amazingpreacher, but you've had a gift
(18:05):
of humble confidence and you'velived for an audience of one.
And you've made everyone feelthat nobody's better than the
next and we're all equal inChrist.
And I really commend you foryour leadership as a pastor,
leadership in the community.
And that's really how you'veserved that community.
(18:25):
I have one interesting questionas an auctioneer that might not
be interesting to the peoplethat are watching and listening,
but we admire, I think thehighest calling is being a
pastor.
I really do.
And I just talked about peoplenot being better than people,
but to be a pastor or amissionary, you sit at the the
(18:50):
highest rung of life's work.
When you were on that stage andyou're in the middle of your
sermon, were you ever thinkingin the back of your mind, I'll
tell you as an auctioneer allthese decades, I would be
outwardly having a conversationwith the audience.
I'd be selling an item, but atthe back of my mind, I might be
(19:10):
thinking something completelydifferent.
Like, Pastor Keith, this itemis not selling well.
This item's selling amazing.
I'm doing good.
I'm not doing good.
This is an amazingorganization.
The crowd, it's not about me,but the mission has the crowd in
the palm of their hands or, ohmy gosh, they're not feeling the
(19:31):
mission.
As an auctioneer, you'respeaking one thing, but you
might be thinking the completeopposite.
When you were on that stage forall those decades, And I want
to remind you, your work willnever be forgotten.
It'll never be forgotten.
And the impact, the profoundimpact that you and Cindy have
had.
But did you ever pinch yourselfand did you ever take yourself
(19:55):
back to when you were a kid or ayoung adult and you said, I'm
not going to find myself in coldMinnesota.
I'm not going to find myself inthe church.
Here you're standing with me.
A ton of people listening toyou with that humble confidence
for the Lord.
Did you ever think in the backof your mind, oh my gosh, Lord,
(20:18):
you have such a sense of humorand look at all the yeses I've
said yes to.
And wow, have you amazed meChrist for your kingdom?
Speaker 01 (20:29):
Honestly, most of the time when I was preaching,
if I had a thought in the backof my mind, it was, is my zipper
up?
But yeah, I mean, it is amazinghow your mind can multitask
while you're speaking.
And yes, I had those momentswhere I, it was almost surreal.
(20:53):
It was almost like, Lord, Ican't believe you took this kid
and somehow got to here.
And I'll tell you where itoften hit me was like on Easter.
Yeah.
And which is, there's justsomething Easter and especially
a good Friday.
I mean, people love Easter and,and what it represents.
(21:14):
My favorite is good Friday, myfavorite service, my favorite
time.
You talk about humility and Imean, that's, that's just the
whole nature of the thing.
But, but that weekend, that'sthat time.
And, and just, you see thechurch fill up and you're like,
(21:35):
Lord, I can't believe you trustme with this responsibility.
I can't believe that you trustme with your word.
You're trusting me with thesepeople.
Because I know I'm so often theman I'm tempted to be instead
of the man you created me to be.
I know who I am.
I know all this stuff.
(21:56):
And yet you've put me here.
And yeah, so it is surreal.
And you do have those thoughts.
And yeah.
And then sometimes you haveother thoughts that aren't as
positive.
Like I was preaching once and acell phone went off.
And so I just, I tried toignore it, you know.
(22:17):
And normally when a cell phonegoes off, you have this sense of
somebody's like, you know,activity because they're trying
to shut it off.
But I couldn't sense any ofthat.
And it rang.
You know, no one cut it off.
It just rang.
So, okay, we just went on.
30 seconds later, rings again.
The whole ringtone.
(22:37):
And again, in my mind, as I'mspeaking, I'm going, do I
address this?
Do I say anything?
And I thought, nope, I'll stayover on this side.
It's ringing over here.
So I'm just going to stay onthis side of the thing.
30 seconds later,
Speaker 02 (22:50):
it rings
Speaker 01 (22:51):
again.
And now people are starting toreact.
They're starting to laugh.
They're looking at me like,what are you going to do?
And so I'm...
I'm walking over to that sideand in my head, I'm saying,
don't say anything you'll besorry for later.
You know, you don't know whatthe situation is.
And it stops.
I'm about to address it.
(23:12):
It starts to ring again.
And I realize it is my wife'scell phone.
on the front pew.
She was leading worship at thetime.
And what she would do is duringthe first service, she and her
team would go have coffee.
They'd stay in the secondservice, but first service while
I'm preaching, they would gohave coffee and she had left her
(23:34):
stuff behind.
So it's ringing.
And I just looked at everybodyand I said, that is my wife's
cell phone, which of course thenI've lost everybody by this
point.
I said, let's answer it, shallwe?
So I walked off the And I said,hello.
And it is Thomas, our youngestboy.
And she would go get thembetween services.
(23:55):
And he goes, dad.
I said, yeah.
He goes, is mom there?
I said, no, honey.
She's not.
He goes, dad.
I said, yeah.
He goes, I can't find my socks.
I said, you can't find yoursocks.
And you're, no.
I said, okay, well, you knowwhat?
I'm going to have, just stay bythe phone.
(24:16):
I'm going to have mom call you.
Okay.
I mean, there's justpandemonium in the place.
And I said, I'm pretty sure mywife is down in the kitchen with
somebody in like, you know, 50people get up.
I'll go.
Anything to get out of this,you know, and head down.
And so, yeah.
So there are times.
We had one time where we had anew custodian and I'm preaching,
(24:36):
just preaching my heart out.
We had water baptisms that day.
And he didn't know that youdon't unplug the baptistry
during the church service.
So the water's draining.
And when the last water drains,it makes this huge sucking
sound.
So I'm in the middle of mysermon with all of a sudden you
(25:01):
hear...
And I just have to stop and letthis thing happen.
So yeah, there are things thatgo on in your head or you see
things...
You know, fortunately, I can'tsee too much of what's going on
in the balcony, which isprobably good.
But you have those thoughts,your mind multitasks.
But most of the time, you know,you are focused on what's
(25:23):
happening.
And I only had one servicewhere my zipper actually was
down.
It just happened to be the lastservice my mother ever
attended.
My entire family was there forthe only time.
My brother, his wife, all mykids.
And nice job, Pastor Keith.
(25:43):
We're so proud of you.
Speaker 00 (25:45):
Is your mother still with us?
Speaker 01 (25:47):
No, she was 95.
We were celebrating herbirthday and Anna's birthday.
And then that was the lastservice she could be at.
And then she passed away a yearlater.
A few months later.
I
Speaker 00 (26:01):
can't imagine how proud she was.
A couple things that leads me.
Can I
Speaker 01 (26:05):
say something first?
Please do.
When you talked about thehighest calling, and I
understand what you're sayingthere, but I would tell you that
the highest calling in my lifeis husband and father.
And there was a time in myministry when I put pastor over
them.
So if my...
(26:27):
if my wife called or if my kidscalled and I was busy, I'd say,
you know, take a messagebecause I'm counseling somebody
or I'm doing this, I'm doingthat.
And it wasn't until later, andI felt so ashamed, but I was
talking with a colleague and hesaid, it's very important to me
that my family knows no one ismore important than they are.
(26:48):
So if they call, I answer.
Now, if I'm doing something, Imay say, if this is an
emergency, can I call you back,whatever?
And I thought, Oh, my heavens.
I have spent the last yearstelling my family, these people
are more important than theyare.
And that's not true.
(27:09):
And it's not right.
And so if my kids called, if Iwas in the middle of counseling
somebody, I said, hang on onesecond.
I just need to take this.
And same with my wife.
And that has always been myhighest calling.
Speaker 00 (27:29):
That's said well, and that's a very good reminder
to me.
And I'll tell you, PastorKeith, I too have made that
mistake over my career.
At 51 years old, I'm figuringthat out more and more with
time.
But there's been plenty ofyears, and I'm not proud of
this, that I've often put mywork unintentionally ahead of my
(27:50):
family.
And so I greatly appreciatethat reminder.
And that leads me to a thoughtthat I'm excited to ask you.
But I first want to share a bitof praise.
And you're not looking for mypraise, but I want to tell you
because it's a prompting andinspiring for all of us.
(28:13):
I already said it, but I wantto say it again.
What I'm so intrigued by isthroughout your life, you and
Cindy, you've been prompted andthen you've said yes.
And you've been prompted andyou've said yes.
And you've put that courageahead of that fear.
And I think one of the lessonsfor myself and our audience and
(28:34):
listeners is when we have thatprompting, and we know in our
heart and gut and prayers thatit's right to say yes.
And think of all that'shappened in your life and all
the lives that have beenaffected and all the ripple
effect that...
You've thrown a pebble andthrown a pebble and thrown a
(28:54):
pebble and said yes and yes andyes.
And no, you haven't done itperfectly.
And I haven't done itperfectly.
And no one does it perfectly.
And we're all afraid.
But if we can listen to thosepromptings, again, maybe it's an
act of encouragement.
Maybe it's an act of kindness.
Maybe it's that one next thingto do personally,
(29:15):
professionally, a relationship.
That is what you've modeled.
And with such a humble spiritand you've kept your heart in
the right spot.
So as you ended being a pastorat AG, and again, you're not
looking for my praise today.
It's from the bottom of myheart.
And I know I speak for a large,large audience in this
(29:37):
community that you have affectedtheir lives.
You will never know theprofound impact.
Cindy will never know.
Your family will never know.
the profound impact in ourcommunity and in the world.
It has been profound.
And it's all been for Christ inhis kingdom.
And so thank you, thank you.
(29:58):
But I want to tell you, PastorKeith, your work is not over.
Your work is not over.
You are not done.
I know, knowing you, as my dadwould say, at 82, Dale says, I'm
just getting started.
And keep that mantra in yourheart.
for Christ and his kingdom,you're still just getting
(30:22):
started.
And there's a lot of work as ahusband and a father and a
grandpa and a community leaderand a Christ follower.
Don't share with us anysecrets, but is there things
that you're excited about forthe future?
And I want to say, and ofcourse you're excited about your
(30:44):
family, but what has God doneWhat does God have you excited
about now?
Is there any promptings thatyou're thinking about that you
want to share with us?
And then lastly, I do want totalk about your service to the
community.
That's something you've donefor decades.
But talk about your life rightnow.
And I want to give you a pass.
(31:05):
If you're resting for once inyour life, that is great.
And that's a message for ustoo.
So if you're simply resting andbeing still with the Lord,
that's great.
equally beautiful, if not more.
Speaker 01 (31:19):
Well, one of the things that I felt like the Lord
laid on my heart was to helprural pastors, because most
people, you know, most of thechurches in America are a
hundred or less.
And so many rural pastors, it'sthem.
They don't have a staff, youknow, everything's up to them.
(31:40):
They look around and I justfeel like if there's a way that
I could come in and help themeither with pulpit relief or
just talking about myexperiences in the rural
community and how do you pastora community?
How do you work with people?
How do you set things up,mission, vision, working with
all those things?
(32:00):
Anything I can do to help.
So I'm right now helping achurch down in Folda, Minnesota.
I have to drive two hours.
but it's a church plant, it'sfive years old, and they're just
doing great.
The pastor's a young guy,former youth pastor, and I would
love to pour myself out andhelp these guys because they're
(32:22):
doing great things with theLord, for the Lord.
You know, sometimes we do greatthings for the Lord and it's
not with the Lord, you know,it's like our thing.
And we think, Oh Lord, you'regoing to love this, you know?
Uh, but you know, the, thefunny thing is you talked about
saying yes, we didn't always sayyes.
Uh, and I don't know if you'reaware of this, but when we first
(32:44):
were approached by Willmar, we,we, uh, interviewed and then we
said no to them.
Uh,
Speaker 00 (32:52):
even makes the story better.
Speaker 01 (32:53):
Yeah.
And what happened was we went,we went home and, And thought
people would be like happy, hey,you're not leaving.
But there was just no peace andrelationships.
And I had an 88-year-old prayerpartner from Latvia named
Lydia.
Came through World War II,displaced person, just
(33:16):
incredible.
Lived in the same house inBloomington since the late 40s.
And I would go to her house forlunch on Thursdays.
And, uh, basically we'd openthe Bible.
I'd say, well, Lydia, what'sthe Lord been saying to you
lately?
And then she talked the rest ofthe time.
And, uh, so this Thursday afterwe had said, no, we're sitting.
(33:39):
And I said, you know, I, wesaid no to Willmar and, and told
her all the reasons why.
And she looked at me and shegoes,
Speaker 02 (33:50):
Hmm,
Speaker 01 (33:52):
sounds like Abraham doesn't want to put Isaac on the
altar.
And I thought, can I say shutup to an 88-year-old lady?
But all the reasons that I hadgiven her were kind of the
earthly, you know, we're in thecities.
Do we really want to go toWillmar?
(34:13):
You know, blah, blah, blah,blah.
All those things.
They were all things that were,you know, in the natural,
materialistic, not seeing thebig picture.
And boy, that just stung.
That really stung.
And we ended up calling Willmarback because they had said, we
think you're the guy, so we'renot going to continue our
(34:34):
process.
And so all these things keptlining up.
When we said no, God said,yeah, but, yeah, but.
And so we finally said yes.
Speaker 00 (34:44):
Then when she said yes, did she say anything?
Or when you said yes, did shesay anything back to you?
Speaker 01 (34:50):
No, she was just, she knew what the right thing
was.
I mean, and Lydia was, she wasa wonderful lady and a great
example of perseverance.
I mean, her story, I shared herstory in church once.
I can't take the time here, butit's just amazing what she went
through during World War II andafterwards to get to where she
(35:13):
was.
Well,
Speaker 00 (35:15):
and when I think of that and you share about her
story, You know, it'sinteresting.
They often say we become thesum of the people that we hang
out with and the mentors that wesurround ourselves with.
If we had more time, I'd loveto hear about the mentors in
your life.
Lydia being one of them.
(35:36):
I'd love to hear about thebooks that you love to read, the
podcasts that you love tolisten to.
Yeah.
because it's so fun to hear howyou've continued to sharpen
yourself.
Before we talk about serviceand your heart of serving the
Willmar community within AGChurch and outside of the
church, I want to ask you aninteresting question that I
(35:59):
sometimes ask myself, and I'mnot equating myself by any means
to a pastor, but leadership canbe lonely.
And I love people.
I have a lot of natural,natural joy.
But there's times thatleadership can be lonely.
(36:21):
How do you stay?
How have you stayed encouraged?
What encourages you?
And I know you have a ton ofpeople in your life that care
deeply, a lot of friends, a lotof family.
But you've spent decades, youand Cindy, encouraging and
walking alongside others.
without a spirit to beingbetter.
(36:42):
But at times, my guess is youcan feel empty from all of the
encouragement and you get yourencouragement from the Lord at
the end of the day.
But how do you and Cindy stayencouraged?
Speaker 01 (36:59):
First of all, encouraging each other.
I mean, it's great that we haveeach other and we know each
other and we know each other'srhythms.
And when that rhythm is off orthat rhythm needs encouragement
or whatever else.
So that's helpful.
And then you hit on it, justsurrounding ourselves with other
folks.
You know, leadership can belonely.
(37:20):
When I came to be the seniorpastor, I had been very involved
at my former church asexecutive pastor.
But there were still thingsthat I was...
not prepared for becoming thesenior pastor.
You just don't understand sortof what comes with that.
(37:41):
It's, again, one of thosethings you don't know that you
don't know.
And part of that is just, asyou said, kind of the
loneliness.
I mean, we made a lot ofdecisions, consensus as staff,
but the reality is the bookstops here.
And one of the things thathelped me was when I learned the
(38:05):
difference between pressure andstress.
Because they both, you know,when you're in a difficult
situation, you feel pressure.
And the difference is when youdon't know what to do, you're in
a difficult situation and youjust don't know what to do.
That is stressful.
(38:26):
Okay.
When you're in a difficultsituation, but you do know what
to do.
That's a pressure, okay?
And I feel like for most of myministry career, I may have been
under pressure, but didn'texperience a lot of stress
because I knew what to do.
And that was the first thing isyou inquire of the Lord.
(38:48):
Okay, Lord, it's your ministry,your people, your family, you
know, what do you want done?
And then you move off in thatway.
That makes such a difference.
The other thing I think that'sreally important for leaders to
understand is, to me, there's anumber one purpose for being a
(39:14):
leader.
I mean, leadership, there's somany things.
You could spend a podcasttalking about leadership and all
the aspects of leadership.
But to me, and maybe peopledon't agree with me, but I think
there's one thing Thatabsolutely has to be true.
If you're going to be a leader,you have to be a person who
gives hope more than anythingelse.
(39:37):
Because if you're a leader thatdoesn't provide hope, where are
your people going?
What are they going to do?
People, you know, without hope,people just, they lose heart.
And so I always wanted to besomeone, regardless of the
situation, hey, we have hope.
We, you know, Hope is themelody of the future and faith
(40:00):
allows us to dance to it today.
And that was kind of ourapproach.
So let's make sure as leadersthat we are hopeful and that way
we can then extend that hope toothers.
Speaker 00 (40:14):
I love that.
That is so, so encouraging anda wonderful reminder to myself
and all of us to extend hope.
and what that does for thepeople that we surround
ourselves with.
I want to tell you too thatwhen you talk about pressure,
another great nugget that you'veshared, let's call it a pebble
(40:36):
today, that you didn't carry thepressure yourself.
You said, Lord, I'm going togive you the pressure.
I'm going to give you theweight.
And then I'm going to listen toyou and I'm going to try to
surrender to you.
And when we try to carry itourselves, boy, is it a heavy
load.
But when we surrender, now I'mjust as guilty as the next.
(41:00):
This is something I'mcontinually working on is
surrendering and not carryingthe weight in my humanness, but
giving that weight up andletting him carry the weight.
And boy, does that make it amore joyful, peaceful
experience.
lighter load.
And I so appreciate you sharingthat.
There's a difference
Speaker 01 (41:20):
between surrender and commitment.
And it's very nuanced becausethey're both a good thing.
You know, I make a commitment.
But when I make a commitment,I'm in charge of that.
I decide how long thatcommitment is going to be, how
much of a commitment I'm goingto make, all sorts of things.
When you surrender, you're notin charge of anything.
(41:43):
And We're asked to surrender.
Now you're right.
Nobody surrenders perfectly,but it's the attitude.
It says, you know, cause what'sthe sign of surrender?
You put your hands up and now,you know, whoever you surrender
to is in charge of who you areand where you go and what you
(42:03):
do.
And so we've, we've tried toadopt that attitude of surrender
and even more than commitment.
I know we often in church, wetalk about commitment, we ask
for commitments.
Again, nothing wrong with that.
But ultimately what the Lord islooking for is surrender.
And you want to get to thatnext level of faith.
(42:24):
It takes that surrender.
It's like water baptism.
When you go back, we tellpeople, hold on to your nose and
like this, because your naturalinclination is you want to put
your hands out and stop becauseit's such a helpless feeling.
When you go back in the water,you just feel totally helpless.
And I think that's intentionalbecause it's that attitude of
(42:49):
you're now surrendering yourlife to the Lord.
Speaker 00 (42:51):
Thank you.
Excellent, excellent.
You know what I should havedone at the beginning of this?
Is just said, hey, let's startwith a 30-minute sermon.
Because...
You
Speaker 01 (43:08):
want to lose your audience?
Yes, go ahead and do that.
Speaker 00 (43:12):
You are so, so blessed with the ability to
teach.
The ability to teach.
Thank you so much.
You have like...
So the other thing asidefrom...
Again, I talked about you beinga Christ follower and a husband
and a dad and a grandpa and afriend to many and a pastor for
(43:34):
all these decades.
And then...
We could talk for the nextthree hours about your heart of
service.
I don't even know where tostart.
So there's so many amazingthings as to what you've done in
your life.
And I appreciate how you'vestepped out in courage.
(43:56):
You're confident.
You're humble.
You give all glory to the Lord.
I want you to take this in theAnd our kids went to the
(44:25):
programs at our church, but ourkids also went to the programs
at your church.
And I was just amazed, hundredsand hundreds.
Like, again, there's so much wecould say today about the good
of your years at AG Church.
But one crazy, amazing examplethat I just can't get over is is
(44:50):
the JAM program.
Speaker 01 (44:52):
Yeah, it used to be VBS.
Now we call it Summer JAM.
Speaker 00 (44:55):
Summer JAM.
And then I think about what youdid to walk alongside people
during COVID.
You take this in whateverdirection your heart wants to
share today.
But my point is, Pastor Keith,is back to that heart of
service, back to those yeses.
You could have just sat on thecouch with Cindy and instead you
(45:17):
said, nope, we're going to,We're going to have jam.
And then God bless that.
And that just went crazy.
Then you said, no, it's COVID.
We're not going to just sit onthe couch.
We're going to do this and thisand this and this.
And that's where not only arewe so grateful and the ripples
in the community we cannotmeasure, but what intrigues me
(45:39):
about you and where we'reinspired for all of us listening
and watching and myself to takethat next step of obedience is
You said all these yeses andyou've done all these things
within the church and outside ofthe church.
Just share whatever you'd liketo share.
But I want to thank you onbehalf of our community for, I
(46:04):
can't even articulate howspecial and the difference that
it's made in the lives ofothers.
Speaker 01 (46:09):
It starts with a biblical foundation.
You know, when John says, andJesus washes the disciples'
feet.
No one else is coming forward.
So he says, you know, I'll doit.
And then he says, you know,what I have done is an example
for you.
You need to be washing eachother's feet.
And when you do things likethat, he says, you will be
(46:31):
blessed.
So who doesn't want to beblessed?
So if I serve others and one ofour values of the church is
serving is our privilege.
So right away, there's animmediate, Wow, it almost feels
selfish.
Like I get blessed.
But then when you serve others,then you help them see the
(46:52):
value God has placed on them.
So when we serve, when we doour summer jam and we have 600
kids there and a lot of them arenot from our church and you
can't believe some of the homesituations these kids are coming
from.
And we believe it's easier tobuild a kid than to fix an
adult.
Okay.
(47:12):
So we get a chance for a weekto love on these kids and they
get to see that they're lovable.
They're valuable.
They're acceptable.
A message that they may nothear a lot, you know, at home at
times.
And so it's just a privilegefor us that we, again, people
get to see their value.
When COVID came, you know, it'slike, okay, God, what do you
(47:34):
want us to do?
Well, one of the things we didis we established a long
distance learning center.
We had our epic building.
And I talked to the schoolofficials and they said, as long
as you do everything accordingto our standards, we'll support
this.
And so we had to have people,you know, so much separation.
We had volunteers in that camein and tutored kids anywhere
(48:00):
from elementary to high school.
And so we did the long distancelearning center and set that
up.
And then that Easter, Just feltimpressed.
And this was spur of themoment.
I should have talked to myboard ahead of time, but they
were very gracious.
And I just said, as we receivedthe offer, and we were outside,
(48:22):
you know, the service wasoutside.
I said, everything that yougive today, we're going to turn
around the entire offering we'regoing to give to Crossroads
Counseling.
because they are beingoverwhelmed.
You know, COVID, the mentalhealth issues just rose
tragically and they were beingoverwhelmed.
(48:43):
And so we were able to give anoffering of $45,000 just to
crossroads to say, if you needto hire more people, you know,
whatever you need to do, ifpeople can't afford, then this
will pay for that and that sortof deal.
So, those are just the types ofthings, you know, you want to
(49:03):
meet a need.
When you serve people, there'san aspect of mercy.
You know, those two gifts kindof come together.
And mercy, you know, asks onequestion.
It doesn't ask, you know, well,do they deserve it?
Mercy simply asks, do theysuffer?
And if they do, then we need todo something about it.
(49:28):
So.
So that's been a lot of fun.
We tried to, one of our, again,one of my cultural values,
speed of leader, speed of theteam.
And so as a pastoral staff, wehad...
service projects.
We tried to have at least one amonth where we would go out and
just as a group do something.
So we went to Bethesda a numberof times.
(49:49):
We painted stuff for them.
We put garden boxes together.
When Lakeland was opening up,we went and helped teachers
physically set up theirclassrooms, putting desks up and
things like that.
I have a list of things.
We did the Hope for the City.
We distributed food, foodshelf.
When they do the producedistribution, we'd help with
(50:11):
that we had a single mom.
We have a single mom's ministryat the church.
Most of the moms that comedon't attend our church.
So it's a great way to reachout.
And one of them who did attendour church, we knew about, she
was a teacher down at BirdIsland in the elementary.
And so we went down and paintedher classroom.
They didn't have any money forrenovation stuff.
(50:32):
So we were able to paint herclassroom real bright colors and
a lot of fun for her.
And so we just tried to dothings like that, tried to find
ways that we could be anencouragement to the people
around us.
And then when we also wantedour church to know that we're
not asking you to do anythingthat we wouldn't do ourselves.
And then, you know, we had thelarger things with the, We
(50:58):
helped out.
We had sent over teams whenthey built Destination
Playground at Robbins Island andjust want to be part.
We didn't want to just askpeople to join us.
We wanted to go out and join.
What's happening?
What are you doing?
How can we be part of that?
I told our church, I would loveto get us to the point where
(51:18):
you couldn't write an accuratehistory of Willmar without
including the AG Church becausewe just wanted to be good
partners.
Probably one of the mostimpactful things we did was, you
know, we did our Night of MusicChristmas performance.
And when I got here, I thought,you know...
They said, this is our bigevangelical outreach, but 90% of
(51:44):
the people that come areChristians.
So really, I don't know howgreat the outreach was.
I said, but let's turn aroundand use this then for God's
glory.
Let's make it a blessing.
So when I came, I said, we aregoing to receive a free will
offering, but we're going togive it away.
We're not going to keep it tooffset our expenses.
We'll pick a communityorganization every year and give
(52:05):
it away.
And until we got knocked out ofthe box by COVID, that's what
we did.
So whether it was Safe Avenuesor Whole Pregnancy Center or
Salvation Army, or we even setsomething up with the county
where they set up a new fundthat they didn't have.
They called it the GoodNeighbors Fund because it came
(52:25):
from our church.
And so in that time, we wereable to give away about $335,000
to the community over thoseyears.
So that's something that we'vejust enjoyed and we've heard a
lot of ripple effect back.
And there's just a lot ofthings that we've tried to do
(52:48):
with the schools, partneringwith businesses, partnering with
other nonprofits, partneringwith other churches, I met
regularly with your pastor andthe pastor from Living Hope and
the pastor from First Covenant.
We met on a monthly basisbecause we knew we were better
(53:09):
together.
Speaker 02 (53:09):
And
Speaker 01 (53:10):
we tried to do things, where can we converge?
Where can we have this sort ofenergy that we can come together
and be better together than weare now?
And so that's been fun as well,just serving with other
(53:32):
churches together.
Speaker 00 (53:35):
Well, and again, your heart for service, that
you've modeled, Pastor Keith,not only with your staff, as
when you were the senior pastorat AG, with your parishioners,
modeling that in the community,modeling that today, visiting,
like...
that overall arching heart forservice is...
(54:00):
It
Speaker 01 (54:03):
needs to be a lifestyle, not an activity.
I mean, if you look in thescriptures, Jesus didn't say,
hey, do you have a few sparehours
Speaker 00 (54:13):
that
Speaker 01 (54:13):
you could give me?
Speaker 00 (54:14):
That's so true.
Speaker 01 (54:15):
But he said, would you follow me?
And so when you make it alifestyle, It just changes
everything because now you'renot worried about somebody
taking advantage of you oryou're not weighing the cost.
You're not doing all thethings.
I mean, yeah, in our humanness,do we still do some of that
(54:37):
stuff?
We do.
But it gets outweighed by thebiblical mandate that says, hey,
love your neighbor as yourself.
Speaker 00 (54:47):
You bet.
Speaker 01 (54:49):
There's
Speaker 00 (54:49):
a hundred questions that I'd love to ask you.
Maybe a thousand, truthfully,but...
So there's just two more thingsI want to touch on today for
your time and the time of ourlisteners.
But this has been fascinating.
And you've inspired me today.
You've spoke to me.
(55:09):
The nuggets that you've sharedwith me will sharpen me as a
person.
And I'm a big believer thatiron sharpens iron.
And that's one of the greatreasons of the why behind this.
Thank you so much.
But that is who you are withinyour home, in your own family.
(55:51):
It's what you're modelingwithin your own family.
Speaker 01 (55:54):
Well, you have a coffee problem.
I also have a coffee problem.
That is, I don't like coffee.
And that's one reason why Ithought I could never be a
pastor because whoever heard ofa pastor doesn't drink coffee.
But anyway, I think one of thethings that was very important
for me is that for my family,that the person they saw, behind
(56:16):
the pulpit was the same personwho walked in the door.
Speaker 00 (56:20):
Wow.
Speaker 01 (56:21):
So they didn't feel like we're putting something on
for people out there.
But when you come home, you'rea totally different person.
And I tried to warn the churchin the same way about that is,
listen, I'm going to be theperson in front of you that I am
at home.
And so that may not alwayswork.
(56:42):
Worked in well for you as well.
And I think that genuineness,that authenticity that the kid,
cause it's tough being apastor's kid.
I don't think I necessarilyunderstood, recognized at times
what my kids maybe went through,you know, being the, you know,
(57:07):
and especially, you're not justa pastor's kid, but, you know,
of that church, you know, thePentecostal church, the wacky
church, you know, they'reswinging on chandeliers and, you
know, all that stuff, which, bythe way, we stopped doing that
a long time ago.
So now.
I
Speaker 00 (57:22):
love that reminder.
And that's one of the reasons,Pastor Keith, that I wanted to
visit with you is because thatis who you are.
You ooze authenticity.
You are so real authentic.
whether it's back in yourpreaching days, just very a
short time ago, or in cash-wise,you ooze authenticity.
(57:44):
And I love the reminder to allof us, try to live your life the
same at work as you do at homeand vice versa and how we can
model that.
I have one fun last questionfor you.
Okay, shoot.
But before I ask you this, Iwant to sincerely thank you for
(58:05):
the time, the heart, thesharing.
I want to thank you again foryour leadership, your pastoral
work, the man you are, thehusband you are, the dad, the
grandpa, the friend.
It goes on and on and on.
The living
Speaker 01 (58:20):
legend, basically,
Speaker 00 (58:20):
is what you're saying.
The living legend, truthfully.
You're so humble, and I...
I speak for a large communityof people that has been greatly
impacted by you and your family.
And I sincerely mean that.
And I'm just extremely gratefulfor all of the ripples that you
(58:41):
have casted that we've alreadytalked about.
So many we haven't talked aboutthat you'll never be able to
measure.
And so a sincere thank you foryour work, who you are.
Greet Cindy and the continuedwork that you're doing and will
do.
It's far from over.
It's far from over.
So just very, very thankful forwho you are and the impact that
(59:04):
you've had.
And just listening to you andwhat we've learned today will
continue to have an impact onthe lives of others.
But I'd like you to have theopportunity to throw out the
last pebble.
What would you like to share toleave our audience that is
watching and listening?
You've already told us so manygreat things to think about that
(59:27):
have sharpened us, but is thereanything else that you would
like us to hear today that willleave an impact on our thinking?
And as you're thinking, Ihaven't memorized this yet, but
Mother Teresa, I didn't evenrealize when we...
When we thought of the name OnePebble Podcast, I didn't even
(59:50):
realize this till after thefact, but Mother Teresa is
someone that I've alwaysadmired.
She's been one of my manyheroes.
And here's what Mother Teresasaid, I alone cannot change the
world, but I can cast a stoneacross the water to create many
ripples.
And That is just who you'vebeen, who Cindy's been, and
(01:00:14):
that's really the intentionbehind your life.
Is there one last pebble thatyou would like to throw out for
us to
Speaker 01 (01:00:22):
consider?
Sure, and I think Mother Teresais a great example of this, and
that is humility is really thepreparation for service.
I mean, if you go in to serveand you don't have, it's hard to
wash feet in a judge's robe.
You know, you have to behumble.
(01:00:44):
You have to recognize that thisis God's calling.
I remember the story of D.L.
Moody.
It was like the greatestevangelist in the 19th century.
He had this big conference.
He brought over all thesepastors from England.
And at night, the first night,They all put their shoes out in
the hall because they were usedto, in England, they have what
(01:01:06):
they called hall servants.
They would come and they wouldpolish and clean the shoes
overnight and put them back inplace.
Well, this was America.
There were no hall servants.
And when Moody realized whatwas happening, he collected, the
greatest evangelist, the guysputting on the conference, he
collected the shoes personallyand in his room overnight.
(01:01:26):
cleaned and polished.
And the only reason the secretgot out was a friend visited him
and said, what are you doing?
And, and he put, he cleaned allthe shoes, he put them all back
and none of his guests knew.
They just assumed that the hallservants did this, but it, but
it was him.
And that's humility and motherTeresa.
(01:01:48):
And, you know, a lot of ourgreat leaders, they're, you
know, oftentimes are put inroles where they have to take
charge or be in authority.
And you don't necessarily seethe humility, but that's the
preparation to be able to takeon that role and to do it well,
(01:02:09):
to do it in a godly fashion.
So I think, you know, the Biblesays humility comes before
honor.
And so that's a...
For me, I suppose that's thegreat starting point is making
sure that your heart is right.
Your heart is humble.
And then it's, Lord, where doyou want to go?
(01:02:30):
So that's my word.
A
Speaker 00 (01:02:32):
wonderful reminder to keep our heart in the right
place.
Yep.
Pastor Keith, it's been a joy.
Yes.
Thank you for sharing.
Speaker 01 (01:02:38):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 00 (01:02:41):
All the best.
Speaker 01 (01:02:42):
I'll be watching.
Speaker 00 (01:02:43):
Yes.
Thank you.
We're grateful.
Unknown (01:02:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 00 (01:02:48):
This has been the One Pebble Podcast.
One pebble, so many ripples.
What will you do to make adifference?
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