Elisabeth Bykoff is a powerhouse in the SaaS world—startup founder, investor, advisor, and global operator with over 17 years of experience scaling companies across the tech landscape. She is the Founder and CEO of Boxsy, an AI-powered SaaS platform helping startups scale. She is also an Operating Advisor at Alinea Ventures, supporting early-stage startups in CLM, fintech, AI, and DEI. Previously, she held leadership roles at Agiloft and YayPay and began her career at PwC. Elisabeth holds an MBA from the University of Washington and a Master’s in Aerospace Engineering from ENAC.
In this episode Elisabeth shares her courageous journey from French aerospace engineer to American tech entrepreneur. Her new memoir, French Landing: A French Woman's Journey to Her American Dream, offers a humorous and insightful look at the American experience through European eyes. With clarity, grit, and a deep understanding of both startup chaos and corporate culture, Elisabeth opens up about the cultural contrasts, bold career moves, and the resilience it takes to thrive in a male dominated sector.
In this conversation, we explore:
• Leaving PwC after 10 years despite being on track for partnership because of burnout and feeling the expectations were different for women
• Building Boxee, a platform to help entrepreneurs scale smarter by providing operational guidance and best practices
• Navigating cultural differences between France and America, from education systems to credit scores and healthcare
• Challenges of being a female founder in tech, including fundraising difficulties with only 1.8% of women getting funded
• Learning resilience as an entrepreneur and finding support through networks of fellow founders
• Taking calculated risks throughout life, from 155 parachute jumps to quitting stable jobs to starting a business
• Creating a solution that increases the success rate of startups making it from seed funding to Series A
From go-to-market strategies to exit planning and AI integration, Elisabeth brings clarity and vision to what it takes to grow smart in today’s fast-moving landscape.
You can connect with Elisabeth on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/elisabethbykoff
🌐 Learn more: www.boxsy.io
-Links-
https://www.svetkapopov.com/
https://www.instagram.com/svetka_popov/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey friends, welcome to the Once who Dared podcast,
where stories of courage areelevated.
I'm your host, Becca, and everyother week you'll hear
interviews from inspiring people.
My hope is that you will leaveencouraged.
I'm so glad you're here.
Elizabeth Bykoff, welcome tothe Once who Dared podcast.
(00:27):
I'm so delighted to have you ontoday.
Hey, thanks for having me.
Well, it's a treat to have you,because you are a
French-American executive, aSaaS expert, a founder of your
own company called Boxee.
That is a platform that helpsentrepreneurs scale smarter, not
harder, With two decades ofexperience in global business
(00:47):
brand strategy.
And now you're sharing yourpersonal story in a new memoir
that just came out, calledFrench Landing A French Woman's
Journey to Her American Dream.
And so here you open up aboutleaving France, starting all
over in US, and what it takes toreally chase a dream with
courage and resilience.
And so I'm really excited todig into both pillars your
(01:09):
professional climb in theindustry as a woman, as a
minority in that sense, in amale-dominated market with AI
and tech, and yeah.
So tell us a little bit abouthow you got started and where
you are today.
There's a whole journey there.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Where I got started back in France.
Do you want just a career sideof things that started here,
because it's too different.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah Well, we can start with the career side,
first of climbing up that ladder, and now you're a founder,
which is really incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah Well, so I'm aerospace engineer by training.
That's what brought me here,came as a visiting grad student
and the easiest way for me tostay in the US was not to finda
job, was to get a second degree.
So I rerouted to business, gotmy MBA right away.
I was one of the babies of theprogram.
I got in and it was almost theywere letting me in or I was
(02:02):
going home.
So you know, knock on wood,they let me in and then from
there, I really wanted to stayin aerospace engineering.
Believe it or not, I, the dream,was Boeing.
Right, I was like, oh, I wentto school in Toulouse, airbus
Boeing.
Seattle made sense, and Iactually met the general counsel
at the time, back in 2005, 2006, of Boeing commercial, and
(02:28):
after two coffees he literally,literally told me do not come
and work for Boeing.
So my dream was shattered.
Uh, what?
My dream job?
This is what I wanted to do.
But, um, you know, it was very.
It was african-american,believe it or not, in a very
white, male oriented industry.
And he was like you're going tobe one of the ants.
You will not get in on thebusiness side, even though
(02:48):
you're getting an MBA.
They hire, you know they moveengineers into business
positions and, based on yourpersonality, just go do
something else.
I don't know you very well, butafter two coffees you should go
and do something else.
So that's when I exploredconsulting and interviewed with
all the consulting firms, did myinternship at BCG back in Paris
, pulled that card of theAmerican MBA back in France and
(03:12):
ended up at PwC in 2007.
I kind of found my home there.
That was my way also toobviously stay in the US and get
my first internationalexperience, and I spent 10 years
there in tech, get my firstinternational experience.
And I spent 10 years there intech and I had a chance to build
a US Salesforce practice forPwC here, literally.
You know it was after thenon-compete with IBM ended, so I
(03:35):
don't know if you know thestory there, but they had sold
their consulting business to IBMback in 2000, 2004.
And so I had, you know, rightplace, right time.
In a way, I got thrown into aproject, sold the project as a
baby, and then that took me intoa journey of helping build a
practice from zero to 200million globally, and I really
(03:56):
liked that part more thanselling and delivering projects
and consulting.
And so in 2017, it was time tosign my life away and be a
partner.
And I said no, not here, notnow, and I just quit, which
everybody was very surprised.
They were like you don'tbelieve we're going to make you
a partner.
And I said, no, I actually Idon't believe it, that's yet
another challenge we can talkabout.
(04:16):
Right, the carrot was alwaysmoving, and for the last eight
years, you know, I thought let'sgo where things are being built
, which was San Francisco BayArea.
You know the startup ecosystem,and so I've been taking jobs
from, you know, very late stage.
That was an easy transition forme, coming from consulting to
just all the way to pre-product,pre-revenue, helping founders
(04:36):
build their companies.
So make a couple of angelinvestments, learn about that,
be an advisor for a bunch ofstartups, including part of the
Morgan Stanley Inclusive andSustainable Ventures Lab, and
being on all sides of the table.
I thought, hey, how do we helpmore entrepreneurs be successful
and how do we change a bit thegame in that ecosystem?
(04:59):
And that's how Boxee came about.
So that's the last hat I neededto hang on my head, I guess,
which is not the easiest one, bythe way.
I should have started makingthat one.
I did a bit everything inreverse, and so that's really
the journey behind where I'm attoday.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, wow, and that is quite the resilience.
And there's so much risk there,too, for quitting a company
that you're comfortable with andgetting this opportunity, which
a lot of people will be likewow, this is a fabulous
opportunity and partnership.
So what made you decide to sayyou know this isn't for me and
maybe see another possibilitywith that?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
To be honest, a couple of things were happening
back in 2017.
You know, I was burned out.
I was traveling every week WestCoast to East Coast for five
years straight.
I didn't realize how burned outI was and how my body was, you
know, completely out of whack.
I was pretty tired.
The partnership was in reachbut at the same time, it felt
(05:57):
like I needed to deliver waymore than some of the men that
were getting promoted.
You know, the expectations weredifferent.
It was about being French.
It was always not whether Isold or delivered.
It was always my communicationstyle and you know you're too
direct and you got to you knowyou're rough on everything.
Yeah, you're rough on the edgespolish the you know the edges,
(06:19):
or something like that.
And you know people.
I recruited people.
I had great teams, I sold, butsomehow it was, it was never
enough.
That's how it felt, like theywere going to keep pushing,
pushing the goalpost.
And so, um, it was not an easydecision.
Uh, you know, it was absolutelynot an easy decision.
I had to grieve it for a coupleof years, believe it or not,
(06:41):
because I thought this was myultimate make partner and then
keep growing within the firm.
And I got home, looked at mysavings and my husband was like,
okay, you want to quit, let'stake a deep breath, you know,
just think through it.
He looked over my financial.
He's like, ah, you can quit.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Just whatever, just do it.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
You know, don't even bother if that's how you do it.
I'm here, uh, and yeah, it tookme another two weeks to really
it's like, no, don't do anythingrash.
And then something happened.
I woke up in a hotel room in inNew York on my own and picked
up the phone, looked at an emailand somebody had thrown me
under the bus in front of allthe partners and I started
crying of frustration and Ithought I think, think that's it
(07:24):
, I think I'm done.
I shouldn't be waking up aloneon my own on a you know in a New
York hotel and start cryingbecause I'm so frustrated about
what's going on, and so thatkind of triggered helped me
trigger and make the decision,and by that Friday afternoon I
was calling my partner and belike hey, I think I'm done.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
And did you also feel that there was, you know,
disparity between male andfemale in the industry?
I know that you're more of aminority as far as a female
being in the tech, but did youfeel that there was some form of
discrimination with that?
Or as far as like raises andpromotions and things like that?
Or what was your experience?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, it's interesting because you know, in
France you have to pick yourspecialization in high school,
if that makes sense.
So you know you, for us it'sthree years, so you're 16, 17,
and 18.
And the first year, dependingon your grade, you got to select
.
You know science or economicsor literature, or then there's
the trade kind of trade path andI was really good at you know
(08:28):
math, physics, stem.
So I ended up in the scientificpath for the last year of high
school.
So I was already a minority, ifyou know.
It was 25 or 30 percent of womenor girls, right, um, in those
paths.
And then I got into prep schooland got into engineering school
, which was also still at thetime, 20, 25 percent, and so I
kind of grew up with boys, yeah.
And so when I got intoconsulting here in the US which
(08:53):
same thing, the you know, at thetime the mix was still 25, 30
percent of us, maybe women, inconsulting.
I didn't it at the beginning.
You join and you're like well,that's all I've known since I
was 16 or 17.
Right, so I was, and I wasalways one of the boys somehow
during that time.
So I didn't see, I didn't seethe issue, right.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I was like oh yeah, we're just a minority.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
But fine, you know, I'm a junior, I'm doing my job,
I'm building my brand internally, so I didn't really see any
issue until I really got todirector and then the first, the
last step was to make to thepart, you know, partner and the
partnership.
Then I think that's where Irealized, whale, like
everything's changed now thatyou're trying to get into those.
(09:37):
You know the last, you know thelast, stop, almost right, those
leadership position.
That's where now I was stillpart.
You know I was like one of theboys, but they were like just
different criteria orexpectations of me to get there.
Um, where if I had been a manit was like, yeah, she's, type a
, she's this, you know she's,yeah, she's, but as a woman
(09:58):
you're supposed to be nice, oryou know, or you're, you know
the bias of like right, it'slike you're too direct.
if you're female right and soyou know I don't're, you know
the bias of like right it's likeyou're too direct if you're
female Right, and so you know, Idon't know if there was
discrimination, um, even thoughsome people around me might have
thought that.
And did I get screwed over?
Yes, absolutely, I can say that, Um, but I didn't.
I didn't feel it until later on, when really it was almost like
(10:19):
time to break the ceiling.
Here we go Then, you know, youknow, um, that's where I felt
that something more was expectedof me compared to my peers, and
I've seen peers that treatedpeople like shit and never sold
and you name it and they werestill making it and you're like
wait, I'm not understanding.
I'm checking all the boxes andI'm still not in it.
So for sure, towards the end Imean towards that last, you know
(10:43):
, the last three years and fouryears trying to get there was
very different for me.
And then moving out of thatinto yet another male oriented,
pure tech sector yes, again samething, even though I was in
leadership positions.
You know, again, there was biasaround.
You're too direct and you'retoo you know.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
You're too assertive and you know, and too assertive
and you know, and so it's, it'sbeen, it's been interesting,
because for me it came later inlife, versus feeling that from
yeah, and, like you said,because you were always around
boys and males through thedifferent stages of your life,
you felt like you were part ofthem, like there wasn't a big
difference.
You know, I mean, I'm surethere was some, but in the sense
(11:25):
you got along and there wasn'tlike that.
But when you get to the toptier of the pyramid, then it's
like, oh OK, to be a CEO orfounder, it's a little bit
different, right?
I'm curious to know what madeyou choose Boxy and the company
that you started and the companythat you started.
(11:49):
What was your thought behindjust organizing this type of
company and what do you hopeyour company does for businesses
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Speaker 2 (12:32):
So at the end of 22, I quit the last full-time job
and Chad GPT had just beenreleased publicly and I thought,
if one more startups asked meto build a B2B sales process in
Salesforce, I'm shooting myselfin the head.
You know, lowly I was likethere has to be.
You know this is not thecompetitive advantage for any
founder, any company oroperations.
(12:54):
They have to be focused on, youknow, building and selling
their product, right?
So how do we take the wealth ofknowledge that's out there not
just me, but all the otheradvisors and best practice,
everything that's on theinternet, right, like there's so
many published content to bringthat?
You know those guidance, youknow those best practice, those
(13:15):
templates.
You name it to founders so theystop wasting their time like
calling the network or, hey, Ineed help.
You know where, how do I dothis?
This?
So it started that way andreally helping more startups be
successful.
And then, throughout the lasttwo years, obviously the tech's
going so fast that it's not justabout guiding anymore.
It's almost how far can weautomate operations for
(13:37):
first-time founders, smallbusinesses, people that have
great ideas but sometimes don'teven manage to raise capital or
don't know where to start aswell as, to be honest, as the
more time I've spent in theecosystem, it's an interesting
game of probabilities, right, asan investor, you meet as many
founders as you can.
You make, you know, 100 betsand you hope for the best that
(14:00):
one bet is going to hit right.
And you know, coming from amath background, like, well,
that's great, but hope's not astrategy.
And we all know that if you gettwo or three that hits, your
returns are going to be higher.
It's just.
It's just pure math.
Right, there's no rocketscience behind this.
But a lot of the you know,especially on the VC side, are
very hands off.
That's just the way theecosystems has worked in the
(14:24):
past, compared to more privateequity or some other model of
capital.
And I've always been surprisedabout that because you know they
put money and into companiesand, yes, they can't, they don't
have full control, they canimpose anything but fiduciary.
You know they have investorsthemselves that want to see
return Right, right.
So I thought, you know, I gotpulled into that world, that
side in that world, to say, ok,well, how do we create a
(14:46):
virtuous circle and bettercollaboration on both sides?
To say, hey, it's not all aboutcapital, it's about also
helping operate the business sothey do better, you do better,
right, it's, you know, it's.
It's pretty obvious.
There's nothing there.
That's you know.
That's again rocket science.
Wow, elizabeth, you're sayingsomething that nobody knows.
And I think you know the time isright.
(15:06):
The industry's switching.
I mean, you just see it, iposwindows are closed.
I mean there's not enoughliquidity trickling down to
early stage.
Some of the VCs are changing.
They're going to multi, what'scalled multi-asset strategy.
So they're not doing ventureswith their fund, they're doing
RAs and hedge funds and all thatto really increase returns.
And they are at a point nowthat they realize that if you
(15:28):
want to keep those companiesgrowing, they will have to be
part of the operations, if thatmakes sense, right.
So guide them more, be morehands-on, and so we're really
trying to build that platformfor them to do that and just
collaborate and find betterdeals.
Help more, you know, help morestartups and help the startups
in the process to smallbusinesses, right, that are
looking for capital.
(15:48):
So that's really I got.
I got pulled into that and youknow it's a big, it's a big
change in mindset.
Hopefully, you know it's theright time and, yeah, the vision
is really to see how you knowif, instead of one startup, you
know, 90% of seed startups neverraise A.
That's just a stats out there.
But if we can bring thatpercentage point you know, add
(16:13):
one, two, three percentagepoints and more, more startups
get to series a, I've won.
That was the idea, right.
It's how do we push moreentrepreneurs through that hump
and then cause then they have ahigher probability to exit to,
you know, to be successful.
That's really the idea behindBoxy.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So yeah, and so is Boxy targeting more of the tech
sector, or what type of sectorsdo you guys target or help with
currently?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, because of my background, I started with tech.
You know, mainly SaaS, butwe've already got interest from
CPG, health tech servicescompanies to like freelancers
and agencies, which wasinteresting because we started
providing a single pane of glass, really to know your metrics.
So start there, like, how'syour business doing?
So, yeah, we always intended togo through and start adding.
(16:59):
You know those differentindustries, so I think it's
going to happen sooner ratherthan later, which is great.
But yeah, the idea is that youknow, I'd like to see how far we
can push it and be completelyindustry agnostic, right?
So no matter what businessyou're starting and we help you,
I'll need people to help mebecause, you know I don't know
all industries, right, as youcan imagine.
But yeah, the idea was to tryto touch as many entrepreneurs
(17:22):
as we can.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, that's awesome.
And so, in the middle of allthis, you decided to write a
book, which is quite anundertaking.
Anyone who has tried to write abook wrote a book.
You guys know how hard that is.
I think there's like 80% ofAmericans want to write a book,
and I forget the percentage thatactually starts writing, and
then there's a really tinypercentage who finishes, and
even a smaller percentages Ithink it's like 1% or something
(17:45):
like that Don't quote me on thatbut that actually publishes a
book.
So you've done a lot of hardthings besides moving to US from
France at a young age togetting your master's here and
working in a male dominatedindustry, and now you decide to
write a book.
So what got you to make thatdecision?
What inspired you?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, uh, covid, um, you know it started during COVID
.
Uh, I was part of CHIEF.
Um, I don't know if you knowthe.
You know the Women ProfessionalNetwork that had started in
2019 out of New York and, ofcourse, during COVID, all
face-to-face um events wereonline and, um, we got a webinar
(18:26):
on how to write a non-fictionalbook proposal by two of the
community members and so for anhour they explained how they
wrote about 70 to 100 pages fora book proposal that they could
submit to an agent or you couldsubmit to directly.
You know publishers but, as youknow, you have to go through an
(18:47):
agent right to maybe pick you upand all this to get a book deal
.
And then you get an advance andyou know you have to go through
an agent right to maybe pickyou up and all this to get a
book deal.
And then you get an advance andyou know you're off on your way
and, very naively, I thought,if I ever write a book, it'd be
about 150 to 200 pages, so whywould I write half the book to
try to get a book deal?
So I, you know we finished thecall and I thought I'm writing a
(19:08):
book and you know it was inbetween jobs, on top of that
during COVID, and so it was likeperfect, I have nothing else to
do.
Quote unquote uh, spend sometime.
And I didn't want to do abusiness book.
Uh, I thought you know there'splenty of those out there, this
is boring, so let's.
Let's write about something Iknow.
And I thought, oh well, I haveplenty of funny stories of me
(19:32):
coming to the US as a Frenchwoman and not understanding half
of what I thought I knew fromthe silver screen and the TV
shows out there and whateverthey teach you.
So I really quickly structuredthe book that came to me pretty
quickly and then started writing.
And I didn't even, you know, Istarted just I call it vomiting,
(19:52):
right, it was just like in bed,take the computer and I was
just writing what was coming tomy head.
So, no, you know, no structureon the chapter.
But just like, hey, let's tellthe story.
And I went through, I think Idon't know, 10 chapters, 10, 12
chapters, and then then it tookme, you know, got a job, and
then it took me more time tofinish it up.
So it's been more of anadventure and four years of four
(20:14):
or five years in the making,but yeah, that's what got me
started.
Just somebody who was like soit was almost like a challenge
what you want me to write, what?
So I need a hundred pages toget a book.
I'll just write the book,there's no point.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
I love it.
See, that's how you approachlife, so I love that attitude,
which is probably what makessense to you being a founder at
this point in life.
I was laughing out loud readingyour book and some of the
things that you wrote, fromschools to getting your driver's
license and all the absurditiesand culture differences from
France to US and, I think,anyone moving to any different
(20:48):
country right, we have cultureshocks and there's things like
you know, you go to anothercountry and you're like why do
they do this this way?
And some things are for betteror for worse, Like in US.
If you go to Europe from US,you notice the US stalls have
about an inch like hole wherepeople can see you.
It's like why do we not closethat door all the way and seal
(21:13):
it so people standing in line togo to the bathroom don't see
your private business?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
so there's there's a lot of like annoyances.
You know that.
Well, you go to china and youhave no doors, in some cases not
in the cities, but like outsidethe cities, I experienced and
you got to go in the bathroom infront of everybody.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
So here we go I have not been to China yet.
Okay, I would love for you tojust hit in a few chapters of
like schooling.
Let's talk about that.
What were some differences thatyou noticed between us and here
?
Cause you started college soyou weren't going to elementary
or high school here, and some ofthe things that were really
(21:46):
different for you.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, I think the first and I have that in the in
the chapter and in the book isyou know I came as a visiting
grad student but I still hadthey still had me take 400
classes right To kind of easeinto the program, you know, to
the year.
And I remember taking thatfirst 400 classes about matrices
and you know I kind of sat downand I was like wait, they teach
(22:11):
us that in high school back inFrance.
So at the end of the day itended up being a very easy class
for me and it's a great way toease into my first year.
You know, in the U?
S but I think and you know wetalked about that and you know
there's studies around that andresearch and stats being tracked
.
But I think, um, the bigdifference I would take there's
(22:31):
a big difference with an 18 yearold in the US being, you know,
going to school in the US and Ithink an 18 year old in anywhere
in Europe.
Somehow the requirements arevery, very different in terms of
curriculum and I think, youknow, because of the size of the
country and the culture, Ithink we're I mean, I wouldn't
say better rounded it, if thatmakes sense, out of Europe, but
(22:52):
because of the wars and whereyou know so much things that
have happened historically outthere, um, we might be a bit
less self-centered, but again,you know people could challenge
me on that that there's way,there's a lot way.
You know, we're just told waymore good and bad stuff that
obviously those countries havedone.
Don't get me wrong, we, we'renot, we're not there, we know
that Right.
(23:12):
So, um, but you know that'ssomething that's always been
like wait, um, and one of mystepson ended up taking pottery
to graduate from high school andI was like Whoa like.
I would never had that luxury totake a pottery class to be able
to right, like the school is afull-time job.
In France, even, you know, inhigh school, it's 30 plus 35
hours a week, like you know.
(23:34):
You're just like, yeah, it'syour job as a kid, right, which
here it's not exactly that way.
There's a big emphasis onsports.
For us it's more anextracurricular activity.
You know what I mean.
So it's different things thathave been that were the big, the
big surprise when I firstlanded, um, it does change, you
(23:54):
know, when you go to grad school, I think here the graduate
programs, whether it's a masteror PhD, then takes it to a
complete different levelcompared to France because of
the grants and the researchprojects and the you know, the,
the private and sector beinginvolved in that, which then it
reverses, if that makes sense,right, like, you get to that
level of of schooling and it'sit's a complete different game
(24:16):
and that's where a lot ofeuropeans come here to.
You know, do research and studymight change based on what's
going on, but you know, yeah,still still a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So I was telling my kids that um, high schoolers in
france go to school six days aweek half a a day Wednesday and
half a day Saturday.
Is that still true there?
Yeah, According.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, I mean, except if something's changed and they
got a lighter load, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating.
So then, and also, you guyshave, you're required to learn
at least one language, if nottwo, which is another thing too.
That's different, becauseanytime you go we travel for
business in Europe a lot, and soanytime we do go there, most
people speak another language,and usually it's English, you
know, or German or whatever.
(25:01):
But here it's you are.
Most people only know onelanguage, and Spanish is
something that's taught, butit's not even like it's required
in high school and some highschools not even all across the
board.
But then you know, if you don'tuse it, you lose it, and so it
is interesting, though just thatalone.
What were some of your otherbiggest culture shocks that you
(25:23):
entail about?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
You know some of the things that retirement, health
care, you know the usual thingsthat we take for granted out
there.
Um, yeah, you know we grew upwith.
Uh, you come here and yourealize the I mean not the
culture, but it's just thesystem is different.
20, 20 years, almost 21 yearsin the us.
(25:48):
I still don't understand thehealth care system.
I'm like why is it socomplicated and why are you
trying to make all that money?
I mean, you know anyway.
Still, I think that my Europeanside still prevails on that.
I do think that health care isa, you know, universal right now
.
I agree, I don't know about that.
Our system over there doesn'twork either.
(26:08):
Don't get me wrong.
Right, care is, care is hasdegraded, uh, because of budgets
and stuff like that.
But, um, you know, that wasalways like what people can get
bankrupt because of healthcare.
I don't think that's normal, um, and then retirement and uh,
401ks and playing with themarket.
You know, I think I call itlike betting betting your
(26:29):
retirement away, retirement away, right, yeah, which we don't
have out there.
People are pretty self-assuredwith a, you know, federal
pension, call it whatever youwant to call it.
Um, are still in that's.
You know.
I'm mentioning specifically theretirement because I knew as I
moved to the US that I was, Iwas forfeiting my retirement.
You know, my assured retirementin France, right?
(26:57):
So that's been somethingthroughout my career that has
been, you know, in the back ofmy mind constantly of I need to
make sure I have enough moneyfor retirement, because France
will not provide for me, and soyou know, every decision I've
made have been calculated riskaround that, or any investment
I've made has always been longerterm, like it doesn't matter
what happens now.
It's more like can I retireeventually comfortably and not
be in trouble?
Um, and I know that's becauseI'm coming from a country that
(27:20):
well, if I had stayed I wouldhave been assured that somebody
or the government would havetaken care of me, right.
So I would say these are thebiggest one, but I'll'll put the
dating one in there because Ithink it's a fun one.
Oh yeah, you know.
So that you know, hedging yourbets and versus we don't hedge
our bets, we go one after theother in a sequential manner was
(27:42):
an interesting one that I hadto get taught and I still
couldn't do it.
So here you go.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah yeah, couldn't do it.
So here we go, yeah yeah, andthe other one too.
That's really interesting and Ijust find it just having kids
myself.
The credit score it's such awild idea, right?
Because you are encouraged toget in debt so that you pay off
the debt, and that's how it'sdetermined whether you can get a
(28:09):
mortgage or a loan.
But yet you can get in crazyamount of debt by you know,
going to getting student loansas well, and so by the time a
college student graduates, theyare just loaded with debt.
And somehow you're encouraged,by the time you're 18, to get a
(28:33):
credit card.
Actually, you need to get twocredit cards in order to up your
score.
Get a car loan instead of payingin cash, because that also
helps your credit score, and soin a sense, it's this consumer
mindset is really encouraged andthat's the better the score,
the better you know you arescoring in possible financial
opportunities in the future.
(28:53):
So and you thought that wasreally absurd too.
I mean, I could see why someonewould think it is.
It is just a wild idea.
It's like what?
Why are we rewarded for beingdebt free, for not having, for
being able to buy your car incash, for example, or a house,
or put a down payment ratherthan reverse.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's back to, culturally, how
we're being taught.
I think again, my parents and Ithink most I mean I would think
most of French people teachtheir kids to live within their
means, right, because we didn'thave that.
Getting debt in France, atleast when I grew up, was not
that easy.
You know, it's not like you.
We didn't have the concept ofcredit card.
(29:35):
A credit card is really a debitcard in France.
And then now you're seeing moreand more credit cards have come
around since I left, which thensame thing.
It's like a revolving, you know, line of credit, but I evolving
, you know, line of um, but we,I didn't grow up with that.
It was very rare and so it wasalways.
Well, if you don't have themoney, you can't spend it, right
.
If it's not, it's a debit card,right.
So it's not there and it's notlike you have overdraft, that's
(29:58):
like automatic you knowautomatically okay, or anything
like that.
So we're kind of being taught tolive within our means or
whatever cash you have onbalance.
And here it's well, no, I know,no, you don't have to.
You know it's.
Just go get a credit card and,by the way, that helps you with
your score and, to your point,the more you spend, the more
(30:21):
you're rewarded for being ableto for, for the spending and the
fact that you can pay.
But, by the way, you don't haveto really pay.
All you have to pay is interestif you want to, and just keep
your balance until you actuallycan pay.
But, by the way, you don't haveto really pay.
All you have to pay is interestif you want to, and just keep
your balance until you actuallypay it off.
Or you know what I mean?
You also have that.
It's not like you have to paythe full amount every, every,
every month or anything likethat.
And so you know it's.
(30:43):
How do you not expect peoplegetting in trouble?
That's, I think, the question.
You know it's.
You know those people, peopleif you're giving them the
ability to, um, spend thiswithout having the cash, then of
course, why not do it like?
I'll figure it out later right.
And so it just feels it's notjust a consumerism of like, hey,
(31:04):
go buy more to get a bettercredit score and then make sure
to pay it back, it's also also.
It just felt like a trap to me.
That's how it felt when I firstlanded.
It was like are you just tryingto get people into trouble?
Like nobody would ever tellsomebody just go and spend, oh,
don't worry, just spend more onthis credit card and then you'll
(31:24):
figure out later Like well whathappens.
You don't figure it out, youknow.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
And the more you spend, the larger your um
balance becomes too.
So if you don't spend a lot,you actually get penalized, and
then you have a lesser creditcard balance and it's yes I I
never understood either, likehow they're?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
you know, you have three agency um calculating your
credit score and then you know,then you get a master's call,
let's call it right an averagewhatever, yeah, how they're
really calculating this time ofcredit and you know, to your
point, balance, whatever.
I'm sure there's like a magicalgorithm that we're not private
to, but, um, which againdoesn't make sense to me, to
(32:04):
your point.
It's like, well, I would thinkthat you could have credit cards
at zero balance.
And it's like, oh cool, thisperson doesn't live on credit.
That's actually I don't know.
But then somehow, no, you needmore balance and then paying it
off, and so, I don't know, Ithink it rewards a certain
category of people that canactually spend more and just pay
(32:27):
off right away, but it doesn'thelp.
You know the category of peoplethat's actually in need of that
money because they just youknow, yeah, you know, and then
they can't pay it, maybeimmediately, and then it just,
to your point, snowballs, right,and so in that case, what like,
okay, you can, I like what.
Well, then, what?
What do we do?
Like?
What do we do with those?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
yeah, and then Dave Ramsey comes into play.
You know, getting out of debt.
There's that system too.
I'm curious to know what didthe American dream look like to
you before you came to us, andthen, how has that changed?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, so I think the naive French girl that
I was when I first landed was Iknew I was.
I mean, I knew I really wantedto have an international
experience in terms of careerbefore maybe going home.
And so now, when I first landed, I think it was you know,
(33:28):
engineering, and then it endedup turning business.
It was you know engineering,and then it ended up turning
business.
So I'm not too far from thatcompared to you know.
If you ask me what I wanted tobe as a kid, then yeah, I'm
totally far away from what Iwanted to be as a kid.
I wanted to be a film director,obviously so, but I thought
being here would maybe allow meto reroute, and I was closer to
(33:50):
Hollywood, at leastgeographically, than being out
there, if that makes sense,right, maybe I would find my way
there, um, and then there wasthis grand idea of having been,
I'm going to say, raised on sexin the city, that I was going to
live in New York and I wasgoing to be Carrie and or some
kind of combination of all thefours Right, and have this
(34:11):
glamorous, um life of finding MrBig and you name it, right, um,
so see, I said I was the naiveFrench girl, 22, that I was when
I landed, and that's not at allwhat happened.
I mean, I, you can say I foundmy Mr Big.
He's older than me but he'sEnglish, um, though, and yeah,
so ever, actually everything,nothing really hit in a way.
(34:34):
Do you know what I mean it was?
You know I didn't find a Mr Big.
At least you know I didn't endup living in New York, even
though I tried.
I mean, I ended up later on,but I don't regret that.
And so, yeah, it's completely,completely, completely different
than I think the silver screenyou know idea I had when I when
(34:56):
I moved.
So, but I would not changeanything I've done.
You know, I would not change itfor anything.
To be honest, I wouldn't behere today, I think, even
talking to you, if I had not onemoved here and two had all the
opportunities and the twists andturns that I had got you know I
got yeah and tell the audiencewhere are you sitting right now
or today, where are you at andwhat are you up to.
(35:18):
I'm in Austin, texas of allplaces, after having lived in
Seattle, san Francisco and,obviously, new York right before
COVID for 13 months.
So yeah, french girl in Austin,texas How's that?
I'm not the only one.
There's a decent smallcommunity of us here.
But never thought I would haveended up in Texas, I just never.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
So funny yeah.
And so what are going back toyour business side.
What are some of the biggestchallenges that you faced as a
founder and how did you dealwith them?
Speaker 2 (35:53):
What are some of the biggest challenges that you
faced as a founder and how didyou deal with them?
In terms of the challenges, youknow, I think it's it's really
three things and some of themare common, I think, across
founders and I think others area bit different because of who
we are.
But number one is I am not atech founder.
I'm a non-tech founder in atech company.
So I'm dangerous enough to readcode, but I can't write it.
(36:15):
So one of the things that'salways tricky when you start a
company like that is finding,you know, the technical partner
that's really going to help youand see the vision and really
help you deliver.
And I am on my third CTO, sothat should tell you right, it's
been a bit of a challenge, um,in terms of finding the right
partner and, and you know, someof the previous partner actually
(36:36):
exited, um, because of personalreasons.
Right, People need to go makemoney and all that which makes
total sense.
So, um, but it's hard becauseyou know you just sometimes you
just want to jump in and hopeyou, you can help out more or do
it yourself or I don't knowwhatever, and so, um, you know
something that's not true forevery founder in in tech,
because a lot of people aretechnical, but it's, it was true
(36:59):
.
For me it's still true, I think.
The second is fundraising.
Um, you know we all havechallenges fundraising, I think.
But you know the stats right,women only 1.8 percent of us get
funded in that space, whichit's not a lot, and if you're
BIPOC, it's even worse.
The percentage are even worse.
So, you know, even thoughthere's like great capital
(37:23):
sitting out there, it's, youknow you got to break the boys
club again.
So here we are again.
You know I had to do that thefirst time around.
I have to do that a second timearound, and so, trying to
trying to find my way aroundthat I mean around, meaning you
know, hey, I have to go throughthe motions and figure that out,
and then you know, the lastthing is resilience.
(37:43):
You know, I think there's a lotof I call it peer pressure on
LinkedIn around starting acompany, a tech startup.
So a lot of people look at thereally huge successes that are
out there.
You know the Bezos, theZuckerberg, you know, there's
right, I'm talking about them,but there's plenty of people out
there that I think that's oneversion of success and I think
(38:07):
people forget the other versionsthat exist out there.
I know founders that havecompletely bootstrapped their
business and, you know, gotthrough ups and downs, had to go
back to work and you know, yeah, came back out, and but somehow
we all try to pretend thatwe're all super successful and
it's a great journey and allthat, and we don't always talk
about the lows like really lows,and I think some of us are
(38:32):
trying.
I'm not always and I'm alsoguilty of that.
I don't always post when I feellike I'm in the hole and I
don't know what to do, butmentally it's been interesting
just having to.
I was just talking about thatwith my husband, which was the
previous job or any of theprevious job.
I always felt like I was incontrol and you know, on this
(38:52):
one I just don't feel like youknow.
So I have some days I'm like I'mnot controlling it, like I'm
very uncomfortable with it, bythe way, but you got to learn
right, you don't have a choice.
So that's been interesting towork on the mental, the mental
side of things, of pushing to,continuing to push through, put
stuff in perspective, forgetabout linkedin and whatever's
(39:12):
posting.
You know it's okay, it doesn'thave to be.
We don't have to all have thesame process, the same way of
doing things, of same way ofgetting there, um, but you have.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
You know it's a constant reminder yeah, I mean,
and it's up to you to keep onkeeping on like no one's gonna
tell you hey, elizabeth, youshould do this, or you know you
gotta get up and get to work.
It's up to you to keep onkeeping on like no one's going
to tell you hey, elizabeth, youshould do this, or you know you
got to get up and get to work.
It's like you have to do that,no one's yeah.
And then there's people thatdepend on you your investors and
your partners, and if you haveemployees and so forth so that
that is pretty challenging and Ithink, too, not everyone
(39:46):
deserves to know your story, noteveryone deserves what's going
on, you know.
I think it's important to sharethat within a safe space where
you can get proper feedback andhonest feedback, where people
can really just say, hey, youknow, or like him.
This is what I'm strugglingwith and I'm like freaking out
right now because you know,let's just say, ai is constantly
changing and you never knowwhere it's gonna go from day to
(40:06):
day, you know, yeah that's.
That's on top of my mind too,yeah yeah, so how are you um
dealing with that or how are youcombating those, some of those
thoughts and processes, becausethat's yeah, it's a lot um I'll
tell you right now, not verywell, uh, especially the last
(40:27):
four months.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Uh, we launched commercially in February without
a CTO and I was like we'restill going, let's go, it
doesn't matter, we're going totry, let's see what happens.
And the self-care went into thethrough the door, um, cause,
you know, trying to find anotherCTO and keep pushing and
fundraising and all those things, and so I wouldn't say, you
(40:50):
know, I'm the, I'm the best atthat right now.
But what's been really helpfulis, you know, sometimes catching
up with founders that I, otherfounders that I know that
actually remind me of this.
Yeah, I know it sounds crazy,but and it's not like I don't
know, I haven't heard it beforebut sometimes hearing from your
peers like like hey, sometimesyou need to slow down, to
(41:12):
accelerate, or yeah, elizabeth,you know better, you've got to
take care of yourself.
It's a marathon here has beensuper helpful to just have those
obvious comments or remindersof hey, we've been there, we
know what you're going through.
You know, feel free to call andvent, yeah.
Yeah, been there.
(41:32):
And I just met a founder lastnight.
He's on um company number four,three in fintech and he had to
close the last one after sixyears.
And now he's doing somethingcompletely different in sports
entertainment and you know heoffered.
He's like, hey, I've been there, I've had to close the last
company after giving it allafter six years.
And so if you need a, heoffered.
He's like hey, I've been there,I've had to close the last
company after giving it allafter six years.
And so if you need a van, ifyou need to like, you know
(41:56):
anything you want to talk about,just call, like, just ping me,
like I get it right, it is, itis.
You know it is lonely sometimes,right, solo founder or no solo
founder, and so I think you knowit's surrounding yourself with
your peeps sometimes, you know,and we have a tendency to be so
(42:17):
heads down that we forget.
And so I've been trying moreand more, you know, once a week
going to those founders, youknow events and just obviously,
to meet people and network.
But also, you know we aresharing those.
It's easier to share thoseexperiences.
People understand Right, yeah,for sure, and just being a
support network for somebody andthey are my support.
You know what I mean.
Like it's not just one way,right, it's really just being
like, hey, yeah, I can help hereor oh cool, never thought about
(42:40):
it this way.
This is super helpful for meand I think that's something
that we always we have atendency to forget, right,
because we're so heads down tokind of come up for air and
really lean on our fellowfounders sometimes.
So that's what I've been,that's what I've been doing.
So this summer is yet anotherreset for me on self-care.
So let's, let's do that.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, yeah, and just come back stronger and with
clarity and all the things.
Yeah, sometimes rest is thebest thing to do.
You know, I think in Lamontsays if the computers need to be
unplugged and plugged back inand that's how they reset.
Some of us need to do thatevery so often and it's like
okay, now I'm ready to go withfull throttle and I got the
energy, and I think, as afounder and entrepreneur um, the
(43:24):
word balance doesn't reallyexist, because there's days that
you have to go at a hundredpercent, there's days that you
have to go at 100%, there's daysthat you're only working at 20%
and you have to.
It's kind of like you'rejuggling all the different balls
but it's not all equal.
Every day looks different andthere are seasons of grind and
then there are seasons where,like, okay, I can pull back a
little bit now and rest.
You know, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, I don't think it's in that case.
I don't think it's findingwork-life balance, it's finding
your own balance.
I mean, I know it sounds a bitcheesy, but you know it's.
You still need balance in a way.
Now, what does it mean?
Is different, I think foreverybody, um, and.
But there are tactics that work, I think, for most.
Everyone like, to a point,disconnecting, even you know um
(44:09):
once a week, like take a day, atleast take a day off, or
something you know, whatever itis right, obviously, but so I
think it's just in finding yourown balance, right to your point
of, which looks very different,I think, for each entrepreneur
right.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
If it's for you, if it's like just being around
people that understand and getwhat you're going through and
you know, meeting with them oncea week or whatever, then you
feel like, okay, I feelrefreshed now.
Well, elizabeth, I want tohonor your time and I usually
wrap up by asking threequestions.
One is what is the best advicethat someone gave you?
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Um, actually I'm going to do two, cause I'm going
to be greedy, um, first one,take care of your people.
Uh, and I do believe that Ithink you know, at the end of
the day, even as a soloentrepreneur, you rely on quote
unquote a support network.
Um, I don't think you'resuccessful always, you know, on
your own right.
So care for your people,whoever they are.
And I think the second one isjust do it.
(45:06):
Um, you know, I think, uh, it's, it's, it's a Nike moto, right,
like the had that ad right.
But at the end of the day, youknow, all those calculated risk
I took leaving PwC or switchingjobs and then starting boxy, or
the book even, was literallyjust do it, like what, what do
(45:27):
you have to lose?
Right, it works, it doesn'twork.
At the end of the day, it's alearning.
You know you've learnedsomething and just go back.
Even failures are learnings,which I know we're, all you know
, a-type, not liking those, butit's a learning opportunity.
And so I think that's thetwo-one Take care of your people
(45:48):
and just do it.
See what happens.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Yeah, that's.
That's the two.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
One take care of your people and just just do it, see
what happens.
Yeah, that's good.
What are some pivotal books foryou that were transformative in
your life?
Pivotal books?
Uh, interesting, that's a.
I've heard a lot of books uh, inmy life.
Uh, sapience was one of them.
Um, I know it sounds weird andit's a more recent one, but you
know, it was interesting lookingat the history of us right as a
(46:18):
human race and how we've beenthrough you know, the evolution
and, to be honest, remind myselfthat there's way more coming,
that we're always evolving, ifthat makes sense and, um, what
we've contributed as a humanrace in just such a small amount
(46:39):
of time compared to our planet.
Uh, and I know I'm going a bitphilosophical here, but you know
, um, I think this is something,and you know he's written Homo
Deus and now Nexus and aroundinformation.
And I think this is something.
And he's written Homo Deus andnow Nexus and around information
.
And I think for me it's hey,look what we've accomplished,
(47:00):
and some of it is not great,don't get me wrong, but I hope
that with AI, that we get to doeven more and we get our act
together to do a better job attreating each.
You know each other and thisworld.
But you know, those books havereally been for me kind of
thinking through like what's mycontribution?
Right, like how do I contributepotentially to at whatever
(47:25):
level?
Right, it doesn't have to besomething like known and you're
going to be in history books,that's not what I'm saying.
But what's your legacy?
Speaker 1 (47:31):
right Like how are you making a positive impact in
the world?
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Right Exactly Like what, what do you do, or what do
you try to do to make adifference?
And it can be just.
You know, I have two mutts, Ihave two rescues and that's my
good deeds.
You know it doesn't have to belike super extraordinary or
anything like that.
But just how do you rightextraordinary or anything like
that, but just how do you, howdo you change that?
So I think that's one um.
You know there's been I I doread, uh, I mean, I did read a
(47:59):
lot of literature when I wasyounger.
We had to do that.
So there's a couple of books,french books, that were pretty,
pretty fundamental for me interms of uh, and it's not Proust
, so.
So it's not like you know him,cause he's very descriptive and
there was no dialogue in hisbook.
So that was not.
I was not that kind of person.
But you know there's been a lotof um, a couple of books out
(48:19):
there, um, la Chartreuse de, youknow um, that just turned me
into a very big reader that Iwas not when I grew up.
Um, and then, more recentlyit's been a lot of business
books.
You don't say right it's been alot like everybody recommends
(48:40):
books, right, and I think theone that I started, that I was
like oh, you know it makes alittle sense, but it was a good
reminder was hooked, uh, whichis all all about like, how do
you build a product that peoplewant to come back and, to be
honest, I don't think we'rethere yet.
We haven't found a magic wheel,but that's the book I refer to.
A lot in terms of trying tobuild that product.
(49:01):
That you know, is almost anevidence, right, like yeah on it
, and they're hooked on it,right, so yeah, um, so yeah,
three, three things.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
And then they got to know about it too.
So it's like a whole thingRight.
What would you say is thebravest thing you've done?
And there's a lot of pivots anda lot of turns that you took in
your life.
Even at this point, I'mincredibly selective about the
supplements I choose for me andmy family, and Sour Soup
Nutrition Gummies by BeMe BeyondMedicine have become a family
favorite for me and my family,and Soursop Nutrition Gummies by
(49:30):
BeMe Beyond Medicine havebecome a family favorite.
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Speaker 2 (50:05):
Um, I jumped out of airplanes for I was certified.
So here you go.
That's the bravest thing.
I threw myself out of airplanesfor 155 jumps and had to open
my parachute.
You know my safety parachuteonce what.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
How many times did you say you did this?
Speaker 2 (50:24):
155.
I was certified back in France.
I'm not doing it anymore sinceI moved.
Oh my gosh.
I've done a couple of tandemhere and there, but I'm not
certified anymore.
So here you go.
I think that's my.
I threw myself out of anairplane.
That's, that's good.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Yeah, that is no wonder.
You're like not risk averse.
You're like let's quit thiscompany, let's start a company,
let's write a book, let's dostuff, let's just do it.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
It's all calculated risk right.
There are more people dying outof car accidents than jumping
out of airplanes.
That's true.
That's true.
I mean, obviously, the numberof people jumping out of
airplanes is also way smaller,right, right, but it's always
calculated risks, right, and soyou know.
But, yeah, I think that's well,it's not the bravest thing, but
(51:08):
, yeah, it's close to, yeah,close to having done that, you
know.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Is there anything that you'd love to leave with
the listener, maybe something Ihaven't touched on or asked you?
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Two things I think you know, from a book
perspective it was.
I mean, you read it, right,it's very self-deprecating, but
I think the message for me youknow, a lot of people ask me
about the book and why I wroteit and one was to it was for an
American, it is for an Americanaudience, believe it or not,
more than a non-Americanaudience.
And it was to say, hey, it'snot that easy to immigrate in
(51:43):
this country.
There's a lot of contradictionsthat we have to learn, so bear
with us us.
And two was to say, hey, youstill live in a, in a country of
opportunities, no matter what'sgoing on, right, that some of
us, uh and again, france is abit different, but there's
plenty of countries where you'reborn and you don't have those
opportunities, right, you don'tget to go to school, you don't
(52:03):
get to maybe make your own way,uh, and so that was really what
I wanted to, you know, and saythank, say thank you, right, I
don't, like I said, I don'tthink I would have been where
I'm at today if I had not movedand embraced the culture and
this country, I think.
The second is if you're thinkingabout writing a book or
(52:23):
starting a business or anythinglike that.
It's back to just do it.
You know it's scary, um, ofcourse, do it within the
circumstances that work for you,right.
It's not just like, hey, dropeverything and go do it right.
But you know, I think a lot ofpeople sometimes are reluctant
to take the first steps and, youknow, hopefully some of us can
inspire to.
(52:44):
You know, have those peopletake the first step and really
try.
And you know, ping me, I'm onLinkedIn, you know if you want
to talk about it, I'm happy tohelp and support.
But I think that's anexperience that is invaluable
and you won't regret it.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
So yeah Well, elizabeth, you are an
inspiration to so many.
Just the way that you said iscalculated risk, but you're
still taking risks and, as theysay, there are people less
intelligent than you that aredoing the thing and are
successful, because some of us,who are super intelligent, are
overthinking and not taking thatfirst step forward.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yeah, I don't know if it's about intelligence, but
you know, I think we havedifferent kinds of intelligence.
You know, some people are booksmart, street smart, you know,
and I had a very, very booksmart dad, but not very street
smart.
You some of it, you know, and Ihad a very, very book smart dad
, but not very street smart, youknow, it's just, yeah,
intellectual and all that.
So I think it's just take yoursmartness, whatever it is,
(53:38):
whatever it is, we'll have somesmartness and some you know
tricks of the trade, whateveryou want to call it, right,
that's course and figure outwhat you love doing.
Hopefully you can merge.
You know what you love doing.
Hopefully you can merge.
You know what you love doingwith.
You know starting something,whatever it is, and take a risk.
Calculate it, but take a risk.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
Elizabeth, where can people find you?
Speaker 2 (54:01):
LinkedIn is just where to find me.
Feel free to connect anytime.
I'm pretty good at responding,so if there's anything I can do
to help or you want to connect,talk business book, you name it,
feel free.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Well, you guys, check out her book French Landing.
It is going to make you laughand really see some of the
interesting things about US froma perspective of someone as an
outsider.
So I really encourage you toget the book.
Elizabeth, thank you so muchfor your time.
It's been a pleasure talking toyou.
Speaker 2 (54:27):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Thank you for listening to the ones who dare
podcast.
It is an honor to share theseencouraging stories with you.
If you enjoy the show, I wouldlove for you to tell your
friends.
Leave us a reviewer rating andsubscribe to wherever you listen
to podcasts, because this helpsothers discover the show.
You can find me on my website,speckhopoffcom.
Hey friends, welcome to the Once who Dared podcast,
where stories of courage areelevated.
I'm your host, Becca, and everyother week you'll hear
interviews from inspiring people.
My hope is that you will leaveencouraged.
I'm so glad you're here.
Elizabeth Bykoff, welcome tothe Once who Dared podcast.
(00:27):
I'm so delighted to have you ontoday.
Hey, thanks for having me.
Well, it's a treat to have you,because you are a
French-American executive, aSaaS expert, a founder of your
own company called Boxee.
That is a platform that helpsentrepreneurs scale smarter, not
harder, With two decades ofexperience in global business
(00:47):
brand strategy.
And now you're sharing yourpersonal story in a new memoir
that just came out, calledFrench Landing A French Woman's
Journey to Her American Dream.
And so here you open up aboutleaving France, starting all
over in US, and what it takes toreally chase a dream with
courage and resilience.
And so I'm really excited todig into both pillars your
(01:09):
professional climb in theindustry as a woman, as a
minority in that sense, in amale-dominated market with AI
and tech, and yeah.
So tell us a little bit abouthow you got started and where
you are today.
There's a whole journey there.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Where I got started back in France.
Do you want just a career sideof things that started here,
because it's too different.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah Well, we can start with the career side,
first of climbing up that ladder, and now you're a founder,
which is really incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah Well, so I'm aerospace engineer by training.
That's what brought me here,came as a visiting grad student
and the easiest way for me tostay in the US was not to finda
job, was to get a second degree.
So I rerouted to business, gotmy MBA right away.
I was one of the babies of theprogram.
I got in and it was almost theywere letting me in or I was
(02:02):
going home.
So you know, knock on wood,they let me in and then from
there, I really wanted to stayin aerospace engineering.
Believe it or not, I, the dream,was Boeing.
Right, I was like, oh, I wentto school in Toulouse, airbus
Boeing.
Seattle made sense, and Iactually met the general counsel
at the time, back in 2005, 2006, of Boeing commercial, and
(02:28):
after two coffees he literally,literally told me do not come
and work for Boeing.
So my dream was shattered.
Uh, what?
My dream job?
This is what I wanted to do.
But, um, you know, it was very.
It was african-american,believe it or not, in a very
white, male oriented industry.
And he was like you're going tobe one of the ants.
You will not get in on thebusiness side, even though
(02:48):
you're getting an MBA.
They hire, you know they moveengineers into business
positions and, based on yourpersonality, just go do
something else.
I don't know you very well, butafter two coffees you should go
and do something else.
So that's when I exploredconsulting and interviewed with
all the consulting firms, did myinternship at BCG back in Paris
, pulled that card of theAmerican MBA back in France and
(03:12):
ended up at PwC in 2007.
I kind of found my home there.
That was my way also toobviously stay in the US and get
my first internationalexperience, and I spent 10 years
there in tech, get my firstinternational experience.
And I spent 10 years there intech and I had a chance to build
a US Salesforce practice forPwC here, literally.
You know it was after thenon-compete with IBM ended, so I
(03:35):
don't know if you know thestory there, but they had sold
their consulting business to IBMback in 2000, 2004.
And so I had, you know, rightplace, right time.
In a way, I got thrown into aproject, sold the project as a
baby, and then that took me intoa journey of helping build a
practice from zero to 200million globally, and I really
(03:56):
liked that part more thanselling and delivering projects
and consulting.
And so in 2017, it was time tosign my life away and be a
partner.
And I said no, not here, notnow, and I just quit, which
everybody was very surprised.
They were like you don'tbelieve we're going to make you
a partner.
And I said, no, I actually Idon't believe it, that's yet
another challenge we can talkabout.
(04:16):
Right, the carrot was alwaysmoving, and for the last eight
years, you know, I thought let'sgo where things are being built
, which was San Francisco BayArea.
You know the startup ecosystem,and so I've been taking jobs
from, you know, very late stage.
That was an easy transition forme, coming from consulting to
just all the way to pre-product,pre-revenue, helping founders
(04:36):
build their companies.
So make a couple of angelinvestments, learn about that,
be an advisor for a bunch ofstartups, including part of the
Morgan Stanley Inclusive andSustainable Ventures Lab, and
being on all sides of the table.
I thought, hey, how do we helpmore entrepreneurs be successful
and how do we change a bit thegame in that ecosystem?
(04:59):
And that's how Boxee came about.
So that's the last hat I neededto hang on my head, I guess,
which is not the easiest one, bythe way.
I should have started makingthat one.
I did a bit everything inreverse, and so that's really
the journey behind where I'm attoday.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, wow, and that is quite the resilience.
And there's so much risk there,too, for quitting a company
that you're comfortable with andgetting this opportunity, which
a lot of people will be likewow, this is a fabulous
opportunity and partnership.
So what made you decide to sayyou know this isn't for me and
maybe see another possibilitywith that?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
To be honest, a couple of things were happening
back in 2017.
You know, I was burned out.
I was traveling every week WestCoast to East Coast for five
years straight.
I didn't realize how burned outI was and how my body was, you
know, completely out of whack.
I was pretty tired.
The partnership was in reachbut at the same time, it felt
(05:57):
like I needed to deliver waymore than some of the men that
were getting promoted.
You know, the expectations weredifferent.
It was about being French.
It was always not whether Isold or delivered.
It was always my communicationstyle and you know you're too
direct and you got to you knowyou're rough on everything.
Yeah, you're rough on the edgespolish the you know the edges,
(06:19):
or something like that.
And you know people.
I recruited people.
I had great teams, I sold, butsomehow it was, it was never
enough.
That's how it felt, like theywere going to keep pushing,
pushing the goalpost.
And so, um, it was not an easydecision.
Uh, you know, it was absolutelynot an easy decision.
I had to grieve it for a coupleof years, believe it or not,
(06:41):
because I thought this was myultimate make partner and then
keep growing within the firm.
And I got home, looked at mysavings and my husband was like,
okay, you want to quit, let'stake a deep breath, you know,
just think through it.
He looked over my financial.
He's like, ah, you can quit.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Just whatever, just do it.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
You know, don't even bother if that's how you do it.
I'm here, uh, and yeah, it tookme another two weeks to really
it's like, no, don't do anythingrash.
And then something happened.
I woke up in a hotel room in inNew York on my own and picked
up the phone, looked at an emailand somebody had thrown me
under the bus in front of allthe partners and I started
crying of frustration and Ithought I think, think that's it
(07:24):
, I think I'm done.
I shouldn't be waking up aloneon my own on a you know in a New
York hotel and start cryingbecause I'm so frustrated about
what's going on, and so thatkind of triggered helped me
trigger and make the decision,and by that Friday afternoon I
was calling my partner and belike hey, I think I'm done.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
And did you also feel that there was, you know,
disparity between male andfemale in the industry?
I know that you're more of aminority as far as a female
being in the tech, but did youfeel that there was some form of
discrimination with that?
Or as far as like raises andpromotions and things like that?
Or what was your experience?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, it's interesting because you know, in
France you have to pick yourspecialization in high school,
if that makes sense.
So you know you, for us it'sthree years, so you're 16, 17,
and 18.
And the first year, dependingon your grade, you got to select
.
You know science or economicsor literature, or then there's
the trade kind of trade path andI was really good at you know
(08:28):
math, physics, stem.
So I ended up in the scientificpath for the last year of high
school.
So I was already a minority, ifyou know.
It was 25 or 30 percent of womenor girls, right, um, in those
paths.
And then I got into prep schooland got into engineering school
, which was also still at thetime, 20, 25 percent, and so I
kind of grew up with boys, yeah.
And so when I got intoconsulting here in the US which
(08:53):
same thing, the you know, at thetime the mix was still 25, 30
percent of us, maybe women, inconsulting.
I didn't it at the beginning.
You join and you're like well,that's all I've known since I
was 16 or 17.
Right, so I was, and I wasalways one of the boys somehow
during that time.
So I didn't see, I didn't seethe issue, right.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I was like oh yeah, we're just a minority.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
But fine, you know, I'm a junior, I'm doing my job,
I'm building my brand internally, so I didn't really see any
issue until I really got todirector and then the first, the
last step was to make to thepart, you know, partner and the
partnership.
Then I think that's where Irealized, whale, like
everything's changed now thatyou're trying to get into those.
(09:37):
You know the last, you know thelast, stop, almost right, those
leadership position.
That's where now I was stillpart.
You know I was like one of theboys, but they were like just
different criteria orexpectations of me to get there.
Um, where if I had been a manit was like, yeah, she's, type a
, she's this, you know she's,yeah, she's, but as a woman
(09:58):
you're supposed to be nice, oryou know, or you're, you know
the bias of like right, it'slike you're too direct.
if you're female right and soyou know I don't're, you know
the bias of like right it's likeyou're too direct if you're
female Right, and so you know, Idon't know if there was
discrimination, um, even thoughsome people around me might have
thought that.
And did I get screwed over?
Yes, absolutely, I can say that, Um, but I didn't.
I didn't feel it until later on, when really it was almost like
(10:19):
time to break the ceiling.
Here we go Then, you know, youknow, um, that's where I felt
that something more was expectedof me compared to my peers, and
I've seen peers that treatedpeople like shit and never sold
and you name it and they werestill making it and you're like
wait, I'm not understanding.
I'm checking all the boxes andI'm still not in it.
So for sure, towards the end Imean towards that last, you know
(10:43):
, the last three years and fouryears trying to get there was
very different for me.
And then moving out of thatinto yet another male oriented,
pure tech sector yes, again samething, even though I was in
leadership positions.
You know, again, there was biasaround.
You're too direct and you'retoo you know.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
You're too assertive and you know, and too assertive
and you know, and so it's, it'sbeen, it's been interesting,
because for me it came later inlife, versus feeling that from
yeah, and, like you said,because you were always around
boys and males through thedifferent stages of your life,
you felt like you were part ofthem, like there wasn't a big
difference.
You know, I mean, I'm surethere was some, but in the sense
(11:25):
you got along and there wasn'tlike that.
But when you get to the toptier of the pyramid, then it's
like, oh OK, to be a CEO orfounder, it's a little bit
different, right?
I'm curious to know what madeyou choose Boxy and the company
that you started and the companythat you started.
(11:49):
What was your thought behindjust organizing this type of
company and what do you hopeyour company does for businesses
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Speaker 2 (12:32):
So at the end of 22, I quit the last full-time job
and Chad GPT had just beenreleased publicly and I thought,
if one more startups asked meto build a B2B sales process in
Salesforce, I'm shooting myselfin the head.
You know, lowly I was likethere has to be.
You know this is not thecompetitive advantage for any
founder, any company oroperations.
(12:54):
They have to be focused on, youknow, building and selling
their product, right?
So how do we take the wealth ofknowledge that's out there not
just me, but all the otheradvisors and best practice,
everything that's on theinternet, right, like there's so
many published content to bringthat?
You know those guidance, youknow those best practice, those
(13:15):
templates.
You name it to founders so theystop wasting their time like
calling the network or, hey, Ineed help.
You know where, how do I dothis?
This?
So it started that way andreally helping more startups be
successful.
And then, throughout the lasttwo years, obviously the tech's
going so fast that it's not justabout guiding anymore.
It's almost how far can weautomate operations for
(13:37):
first-time founders, smallbusinesses, people that have
great ideas but sometimes don'teven manage to raise capital or
don't know where to start aswell as, to be honest, as the
more time I've spent in theecosystem, it's an interesting
game of probabilities, right, asan investor, you meet as many
founders as you can.
You make, you know, 100 betsand you hope for the best that
(14:00):
one bet is going to hit right.
And you know, coming from amath background, like, well,
that's great, but hope's not astrategy.
And we all know that if you gettwo or three that hits, your
returns are going to be higher.
It's just.
It's just pure math.
Right, there's no rocketscience behind this.
But a lot of the you know,especially on the VC side, are
very hands off.
That's just the way theecosystems has worked in the
(14:24):
past, compared to more privateequity or some other model of
capital.
And I've always been surprisedabout that because you know they
put money and into companiesand, yes, they can't, they don't
have full control, they canimpose anything but fiduciary.
You know they have investorsthemselves that want to see
return Right, right.
So I thought, you know, I gotpulled into that world, that
side in that world, to say, ok,well, how do we create a
(14:46):
virtuous circle and bettercollaboration on both sides?
To say, hey, it's not all aboutcapital, it's about also
helping operate the business sothey do better, you do better,
right, it's, you know, it's.
It's pretty obvious.
There's nothing there.
That's you know.
That's again rocket science.
Wow, elizabeth, you're sayingsomething that nobody knows.
And I think you know the time isright.
(15:06):
The industry's switching.
I mean, you just see it, iposwindows are closed.
I mean there's not enoughliquidity trickling down to
early stage.
Some of the VCs are changing.
They're going to multi, what'scalled multi-asset strategy.
So they're not doing ventureswith their fund, they're doing
RAs and hedge funds and all thatto really increase returns.
And they are at a point nowthat they realize that if you
(15:28):
want to keep those companiesgrowing, they will have to be
part of the operations, if thatmakes sense, right.
So guide them more, be morehands-on, and so we're really
trying to build that platformfor them to do that and just
collaborate and find betterdeals.
Help more, you know, help morestartups and help the startups
in the process to smallbusinesses, right, that are
looking for capital.
(15:48):
So that's really I got.
I got pulled into that and youknow it's a big, it's a big
change in mindset.
Hopefully, you know it's theright time and, yeah, the vision
is really to see how you knowif, instead of one startup, you
know, 90% of seed startups neverraise A.
That's just a stats out there.
But if we can bring thatpercentage point you know, add
(16:13):
one, two, three percentagepoints and more, more startups
get to series a, I've won.
That was the idea, right.
It's how do we push moreentrepreneurs through that hump
and then cause then they have ahigher probability to exit to,
you know, to be successful.
That's really the idea behindBoxy.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So yeah, and so is Boxy targeting more of the tech
sector, or what type of sectorsdo you guys target or help with
currently?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, because of my background, I started with tech.
You know, mainly SaaS, butwe've already got interest from
CPG, health tech servicescompanies to like freelancers
and agencies, which wasinteresting because we started
providing a single pane of glass, really to know your metrics.
So start there, like, how'syour business doing?
So, yeah, we always intended togo through and start adding.
(16:59):
You know those differentindustries, so I think it's
going to happen sooner ratherthan later, which is great.
But yeah, the idea is that youknow, I'd like to see how far we
can push it and be completelyindustry agnostic, right?
So no matter what businessyou're starting and we help you,
I'll need people to help mebecause, you know I don't know
all industries, right, as youcan imagine.
But yeah, the idea was to tryto touch as many entrepreneurs
(17:22):
as we can.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, that's awesome.
And so, in the middle of allthis, you decided to write a
book, which is quite anundertaking.
Anyone who has tried to write abook wrote a book.
You guys know how hard that is.
I think there's like 80% ofAmericans want to write a book,
and I forget the percentage thatactually starts writing, and
then there's a really tinypercentage who finishes, and
even a smaller percentages Ithink it's like 1% or something
(17:45):
like that Don't quote me on thatbut that actually publishes a
book.
So you've done a lot of hardthings besides moving to US from
France at a young age togetting your master's here and
working in a male dominatedindustry, and now you decide to
write a book.
So what got you to make thatdecision?
What inspired you?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, uh, covid, um, you know it started during COVID
.
Uh, I was part of CHIEF.
Um, I don't know if you knowthe.
You know the Women ProfessionalNetwork that had started in
2019 out of New York and, ofcourse, during COVID, all
face-to-face um events wereonline and, um, we got a webinar
(18:26):
on how to write a non-fictionalbook proposal by two of the
community members and so for anhour they explained how they
wrote about 70 to 100 pages fora book proposal that they could
submit to an agent or you couldsubmit to directly.
You know publishers but, as youknow, you have to go through an
(18:47):
agent right to maybe pick you upand all this to get a book deal
.
And then you get an advance andyou know you have to go through
an agent right to maybe pickyou up and all this to get a
book deal.
And then you get an advance andyou know you're off on your way
and, very naively, I thought,if I ever write a book, it'd be
about 150 to 200 pages, so whywould I write half the book to
try to get a book deal?
So I, you know we finished thecall and I thought I'm writing a
(19:08):
book and you know it was inbetween jobs, on top of that
during COVID, and so it was likeperfect, I have nothing else to
do.
Quote unquote uh, spend sometime.
And I didn't want to do abusiness book.
Uh, I thought you know there'splenty of those out there, this
is boring, so let's.
Let's write about something Iknow.
And I thought, oh well, I haveplenty of funny stories of me
(19:32):
coming to the US as a Frenchwoman and not understanding half
of what I thought I knew fromthe silver screen and the TV
shows out there and whateverthey teach you.
So I really quickly structuredthe book that came to me pretty
quickly and then started writing.
And I didn't even, you know, Istarted just I call it vomiting,
(19:52):
right, it was just like in bed,take the computer and I was
just writing what was coming tomy head.
So, no, you know, no structureon the chapter.
But just like, hey, let's tellthe story.
And I went through, I think Idon't know, 10 chapters, 10, 12
chapters, and then then it tookme, you know, got a job, and
then it took me more time tofinish it up.
So it's been more of anadventure and four years of four
(20:14):
or five years in the making,but yeah, that's what got me
started.
Just somebody who was like soit was almost like a challenge
what you want me to write, what?
So I need a hundred pages toget a book.
I'll just write the book,there's no point.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
I love it.
See, that's how you approachlife, so I love that attitude,
which is probably what makessense to you being a founder at
this point in life.
I was laughing out loud readingyour book and some of the
things that you wrote, fromschools to getting your driver's
license and all the absurditiesand culture differences from
France to US and, I think,anyone moving to any different
(20:48):
country right, we have cultureshocks and there's things like
you know, you go to anothercountry and you're like why do
they do this this way?
And some things are for betteror for worse, Like in US.
If you go to Europe from US,you notice the US stalls have
about an inch like hole wherepeople can see you.
It's like why do we not closethat door all the way and seal
(21:13):
it so people standing in line togo to the bathroom don't see
your private business?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
so there's there's a lot of like annoyances.
You know that.
Well, you go to china and youhave no doors, in some cases not
in the cities, but like outsidethe cities, I experienced and
you got to go in the bathroom infront of everybody.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
So here we go I have not been to China yet.
Okay, I would love for you tojust hit in a few chapters of
like schooling.
Let's talk about that.
What were some differences thatyou noticed between us and here
?
Cause you started college soyou weren't going to elementary
or high school here, and some ofthe things that were really
(21:46):
different for you.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, I think the first and I have that in the in
the chapter and in the book isyou know I came as a visiting
grad student but I still hadthey still had me take 400
classes right To kind of easeinto the program, you know, to
the year.
And I remember taking thatfirst 400 classes about matrices
and you know I kind of sat downand I was like wait, they teach
(22:11):
us that in high school back inFrance.
So at the end of the day itended up being a very easy class
for me and it's a great way toease into my first year.
You know, in the U?
S but I think and you know wetalked about that and you know
there's studies around that andresearch and stats being tracked
.
But I think, um, the bigdifference I would take there's
(22:31):
a big difference with an 18 yearold in the US being, you know,
going to school in the US and Ithink an 18 year old in anywhere
in Europe.
Somehow the requirements arevery, very different in terms of
curriculum and I think, youknow, because of the size of the
country and the culture, Ithink we're I mean, I wouldn't
say better rounded it, if thatmakes sense, out of Europe, but
(22:52):
because of the wars and whereyou know so much things that
have happened historically outthere, um, we might be a bit
less self-centered, but again,you know people could challenge
me on that that there's way,there's a lot way.
You know, we're just told waymore good and bad stuff that
obviously those countries havedone.
Don't get me wrong, we, we'renot, we're not there, we know
that Right.
(23:12):
So, um, but you know that'ssomething that's always been
like wait, um, and one of mystepson ended up taking pottery
to graduate from high school andI was like Whoa like.
I would never had that luxury totake a pottery class to be able
to right, like the school is afull-time job.
In France, even, you know, inhigh school, it's 30 plus 35
hours a week, like you know.
(23:34):
You're just like, yeah, it'syour job as a kid, right, which
here it's not exactly that way.
There's a big emphasis onsports.
For us it's more anextracurricular activity.
You know what I mean.
So it's different things thathave been that were the big, the
big surprise when I firstlanded, um, it does change, you
(23:54):
know, when you go to grad school, I think here the graduate
programs, whether it's a masteror PhD, then takes it to a
complete different levelcompared to France because of
the grants and the researchprojects and the you know, the,
the private and sector beinginvolved in that, which then it
reverses, if that makes sense,right, like, you get to that
level of of schooling and it'sit's a complete different game
(24:16):
and that's where a lot ofeuropeans come here to.
You know, do research and studymight change based on what's
going on, but you know, yeah,still still a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So I was telling my kids that um, high schoolers in
france go to school six days aweek half a a day Wednesday and
half a day Saturday.
Is that still true there?
Yeah, According.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, I mean, except if something's changed and they
got a lighter load, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating.
So then, and also, you guyshave, you're required to learn
at least one language, if nottwo, which is another thing too.
That's different, becauseanytime you go we travel for
business in Europe a lot, and soanytime we do go there, most
people speak another language,and usually it's English, you
know, or German or whatever.
(25:01):
But here it's you are.
Most people only know onelanguage, and Spanish is
something that's taught, butit's not even like it's required
in high school and some highschools not even all across the
board.
But then you know, if you don'tuse it, you lose it, and so it
is interesting, though just thatalone.
What were some of your otherbiggest culture shocks that you
(25:23):
entail about?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
You know some of the things that retirement, health
care, you know the usual thingsthat we take for granted out
there.
Um, yeah, you know we grew upwith.
Uh, you come here and yourealize the I mean not the
culture, but it's just thesystem is different.
20, 20 years, almost 21 yearsin the us.
(25:48):
I still don't understand thehealth care system.
I'm like why is it socomplicated and why are you
trying to make all that money?
I mean, you know anyway.
Still, I think that my Europeanside still prevails on that.
I do think that health care isa, you know, universal right now
.
I agree, I don't know about that.
Our system over there doesn'twork either.
(26:08):
Don't get me wrong.
Right, care is, care is hasdegraded, uh, because of budgets
and stuff like that.
But, um, you know, that wasalways like what people can get
bankrupt because of healthcare.
I don't think that's normal, um, and then retirement and uh,
401ks and playing with themarket.
You know, I think I call itlike betting betting your
(26:29):
retirement away, retirement away, right, yeah, which we don't
have out there.
People are pretty self-assuredwith a, you know, federal
pension, call it whatever youwant to call it.
Um, are still in that's.
You know.
I'm mentioning specifically theretirement because I knew as I
moved to the US that I was, Iwas forfeiting my retirement.
You know, my assured retirementin France, right?
(26:57):
So that's been somethingthroughout my career that has
been, you know, in the back ofmy mind constantly of I need to
make sure I have enough moneyfor retirement, because France
will not provide for me, and soyou know, every decision I've
made have been calculated riskaround that, or any investment
I've made has always been longerterm, like it doesn't matter
what happens now.
It's more like can I retireeventually comfortably and not
be in trouble?
Um, and I know that's becauseI'm coming from a country that
(27:20):
well, if I had stayed I wouldhave been assured that somebody
or the government would havetaken care of me, right.
So I would say these are thebiggest one, but I'll'll put the
dating one in there because Ithink it's a fun one.
Oh yeah, you know.
So that you know, hedging yourbets and versus we don't hedge
our bets, we go one after theother in a sequential manner was
(27:42):
an interesting one that I hadto get taught and I still
couldn't do it.
So here you go.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah yeah, couldn't do it.
So here we go, yeah yeah, andthe other one too.
That's really interesting and Ijust find it just having kids
myself.
The credit score it's such awild idea, right?
Because you are encouraged toget in debt so that you pay off
the debt, and that's how it'sdetermined whether you can get a
(28:09):
mortgage or a loan.
But yet you can get in crazyamount of debt by you know,
going to getting student loansas well, and so by the time a
college student graduates, theyare just loaded with debt.
And somehow you're encouraged,by the time you're 18, to get a
(28:33):
credit card.
Actually, you need to get twocredit cards in order to up your
score.
Get a car loan instead of payingin cash, because that also
helps your credit score, and soin a sense, it's this consumer
mindset is really encouraged andthat's the better the score,
the better you know you arescoring in possible financial
opportunities in the future.
(28:53):
So and you thought that wasreally absurd too.
I mean, I could see why someonewould think it is.
It is just a wild idea.
It's like what?
Why are we rewarded for beingdebt free, for not having, for
being able to buy your car incash, for example, or a house,
or put a down payment ratherthan reverse.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's back to, culturally, how
we're being taught.
I think again, my parents and Ithink most I mean I would think
most of French people teachtheir kids to live within their
means, right, because we didn'thave that.
Getting debt in France, atleast when I grew up, was not
that easy.
You know, it's not like you.
We didn't have the concept ofcredit card.
(29:35):
A credit card is really a debitcard in France.
And then now you're seeing moreand more credit cards have come
around since I left, which thensame thing.
It's like a revolving, you know, line of credit, but I evolving
, you know, line of um, but we,I didn't grow up with that.
It was very rare and so it wasalways.
Well, if you don't have themoney, you can't spend it, right
.
If it's not, it's a debit card,right.
So it's not there and it's notlike you have overdraft, that's
(29:58):
like automatic you knowautomatically okay, or anything
like that.
So we're kind of being taught tolive within our means or
whatever cash you have onbalance.
And here it's well, no, I know,no, you don't have to.
You know it's.
Just go get a credit card and,by the way, that helps you with
your score and, to your point,the more you spend, the more
(30:21):
you're rewarded for being ableto for, for the spending and the
fact that you can pay.
But, by the way, you don't haveto really pay.
All you have to pay is interestif you want to, and just keep
your balance until you actuallycan pay.
But, by the way, you don't haveto really pay.
All you have to pay is interestif you want to, and just keep
your balance until you actuallypay it off.
Or you know what I mean?
You also have that.
It's not like you have to paythe full amount every, every,
every month or anything likethat.
And so you know it's.
(30:43):
How do you not expect peoplegetting in trouble?
That's, I think, the question.
You know it's.
You know those people, peopleif you're giving them the
ability to, um, spend thiswithout having the cash, then of
course, why not do it like?
I'll figure it out later right.
And so it just feels it's notjust a consumerism of like, hey,
(31:04):
go buy more to get a bettercredit score and then make sure
to pay it back, it's also also.
It just felt like a trap to me.
That's how it felt when I firstlanded.
It was like are you just tryingto get people into trouble?
Like nobody would ever tellsomebody just go and spend, oh,
don't worry, just spend more onthis credit card and then you'll
(31:24):
figure out later Like well whathappens.
You don't figure it out, youknow.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
And the more you spend, the larger your um
balance becomes too.
So if you don't spend a lot,you actually get penalized, and
then you have a lesser creditcard balance and it's yes I I
never understood either, likehow they're?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
you know, you have three agency um calculating your
credit score and then you know,then you get a master's call,
let's call it right an averagewhatever, yeah, how they're
really calculating this time ofcredit and you know, to your
point, balance, whatever.
I'm sure there's like a magicalgorithm that we're not private
to, but, um, which againdoesn't make sense to me, to
(32:04):
your point.
It's like, well, I would thinkthat you could have credit cards
at zero balance.
And it's like, oh cool, thisperson doesn't live on credit.
That's actually I don't know.
But then somehow, no, you needmore balance and then paying it
off, and so, I don't know, Ithink it rewards a certain
category of people that canactually spend more and just pay
(32:27):
off right away, but it doesn'thelp.
You know the category of peoplethat's actually in need of that
money because they just youknow, yeah, you know, and then
they can't pay it, maybeimmediately, and then it just,
to your point, snowballs, right,and so in that case, what like,
okay, you can, I like what.
Well, then, what?
What do we do?
Like?
What do we do with those?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
yeah, and then Dave Ramsey comes into play.
You know, getting out of debt.
There's that system too.
I'm curious to know what didthe American dream look like to
you before you came to us, andthen, how has that changed?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, so I think the naive French girl that
I was when I first landed was Iknew I was.
I mean, I knew I really wantedto have an international
experience in terms of careerbefore maybe going home.
And so now, when I first landed, I think it was you know,
(33:28):
engineering, and then it endedup turning business.
It was you know engineering,and then it ended up turning
business.
So I'm not too far from thatcompared to you know.
If you ask me what I wanted tobe as a kid, then yeah, I'm
totally far away from what Iwanted to be as a kid.
I wanted to be a film director,obviously so, but I thought
being here would maybe allow meto reroute, and I was closer to
(33:50):
Hollywood, at leastgeographically, than being out
there, if that makes sense,right, maybe I would find my way
there, um, and then there wasthis grand idea of having been,
I'm going to say, raised on sexin the city, that I was going to
live in New York and I wasgoing to be Carrie and or some
kind of combination of all thefours Right, and have this
(34:11):
glamorous, um life of finding MrBig and you name it, right, um,
so see, I said I was the naiveFrench girl, 22, that I was when
I landed, and that's not at allwhat happened.
I mean, I, you can say I foundmy Mr Big.
He's older than me but he'sEnglish, um, though, and yeah,
so ever, actually everything,nothing really hit in a way.
(34:34):
Do you know what I mean it was?
You know I didn't find a Mr Big.
At least you know I didn't endup living in New York, even
though I tried.
I mean, I ended up later on,but I don't regret that.
And so, yeah, it's completely,completely, completely different
than I think the silver screenyou know idea I had when I when
(34:56):
I moved.
So, but I would not changeanything I've done.
You know, I would not change itfor anything.
To be honest, I wouldn't behere today, I think, even
talking to you, if I had not onemoved here and two had all the
opportunities and the twists andturns that I had got you know I
got yeah and tell the audiencewhere are you sitting right now
or today, where are you at andwhat are you up to.
(35:18):
I'm in Austin, texas of allplaces, after having lived in
Seattle, san Francisco and,obviously, new York right before
COVID for 13 months.
So yeah, french girl in Austin,texas How's that?
I'm not the only one.
There's a decent smallcommunity of us here.
But never thought I would haveended up in Texas, I just never.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
So funny yeah.
And so what are going back toyour business side.
What are some of the biggestchallenges that you faced as a
founder and how did you dealwith them?
Speaker 2 (35:53):
What are some of the biggest challenges that you
faced as a founder and how didyou deal with them?
In terms of the challenges, youknow, I think it's it's really
three things and some of themare common, I think, across
founders and I think others area bit different because of who
we are.
But number one is I am not atech founder.
I'm a non-tech founder in atech company.
So I'm dangerous enough to readcode, but I can't write it.
(36:15):
So one of the things that'salways tricky when you start a
company like that is finding,you know, the technical partner
that's really going to help youand see the vision and really
help you deliver.
And I am on my third CTO, sothat should tell you right, it's
been a bit of a challenge, um,in terms of finding the right
partner and, and you know, someof the previous partner actually
(36:36):
exited, um, because of personalreasons.
Right, People need to go makemoney and all that which makes
total sense.
So, um, but it's hard becauseyou know you just sometimes you
just want to jump in and hopeyou, you can help out more or do
it yourself or I don't knowwhatever, and so, um, you know
something that's not true forevery founder in in tech,
because a lot of people aretechnical, but it's, it was true
(36:59):
.
For me it's still true, I think.
The second is fundraising.
Um, you know we all havechallenges fundraising, I think.
But you know the stats right,women only 1.8 percent of us get
funded in that space, whichit's not a lot, and if you're
BIPOC, it's even worse.
The percentage are even worse.
So, you know, even thoughthere's like great capital
(37:23):
sitting out there, it's, youknow you got to break the boys
club again.
So here we are again.
You know I had to do that thefirst time around.
I have to do that a second timearound, and so, trying to
trying to find my way aroundthat I mean around, meaning you
know, hey, I have to go throughthe motions and figure that out,
and then you know, the lastthing is resilience.
(37:43):
You know, I think there's a lotof I call it peer pressure on
LinkedIn around starting acompany, a tech startup.
So a lot of people look at thereally huge successes that are
out there.
You know the Bezos, theZuckerberg, you know, there's
right, I'm talking about them,but there's plenty of people out
there that I think that's oneversion of success and I think
(38:07):
people forget the other versionsthat exist out there.
I know founders that havecompletely bootstrapped their
business and, you know, gotthrough ups and downs, had to go
back to work and you know, yeah, came back out, and but somehow
we all try to pretend thatwe're all super successful and
it's a great journey and allthat, and we don't always talk
about the lows like really lows,and I think some of us are
(38:32):
trying.
I'm not always and I'm alsoguilty of that.
I don't always post when I feellike I'm in the hole and I
don't know what to do, butmentally it's been interesting
just having to.
I was just talking about thatwith my husband, which was the
previous job or any of theprevious job.
I always felt like I was incontrol and you know, on this
(38:52):
one I just don't feel like youknow.
So I have some days I'm like I'mnot controlling it, like I'm
very uncomfortable with it, bythe way, but you got to learn
right, you don't have a choice.
So that's been interesting towork on the mental, the mental
side of things, of pushing to,continuing to push through, put
stuff in perspective, forgetabout linkedin and whatever's
(39:12):
posting.
You know it's okay, it doesn'thave to be.
We don't have to all have thesame process, the same way of
doing things, of same way ofgetting there, um, but you have.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
You know it's a constant reminder yeah, I mean,
and it's up to you to keep onkeeping on like no one's gonna
tell you hey, elizabeth, youshould do this, or you know you
gotta get up and get to work.
It's up to you to keep onkeeping on like no one's going
to tell you hey, elizabeth, youshould do this, or you know you
got to get up and get to work.
It's like you have to do that,no one's yeah.
And then there's people thatdepend on you your investors and
your partners, and if you haveemployees and so forth so that
that is pretty challenging and Ithink, too, not everyone
(39:46):
deserves to know your story, noteveryone deserves what's going
on, you know.
I think it's important to sharethat within a safe space where
you can get proper feedback andhonest feedback, where people
can really just say, hey, youknow, or like him.
This is what I'm strugglingwith and I'm like freaking out
right now because you know,let's just say, ai is constantly
changing and you never knowwhere it's gonna go from day to
(40:06):
day, you know, yeah that's.
That's on top of my mind too,yeah yeah, so how are you um
dealing with that or how are youcombating those, some of those
thoughts and processes, becausethat's yeah, it's a lot um I'll
tell you right now, not verywell, uh, especially the last
(40:27):
four months.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Uh, we launched commercially in February without
a CTO and I was like we'restill going, let's go, it
doesn't matter, we're going totry, let's see what happens.
And the self-care went into thethrough the door, um, cause,
you know, trying to find anotherCTO and keep pushing and
fundraising and all those things, and so I wouldn't say, you
(40:50):
know, I'm the, I'm the best atthat right now.
But what's been really helpfulis, you know, sometimes catching
up with founders that I, otherfounders that I know that
actually remind me of this.
Yeah, I know it sounds crazy,but and it's not like I don't
know, I haven't heard it beforebut sometimes hearing from your
peers like like hey, sometimesyou need to slow down, to
(41:12):
accelerate, or yeah, elizabeth,you know better, you've got to
take care of yourself.
It's a marathon here has beensuper helpful to just have those
obvious comments or remindersof hey, we've been there, we
know what you're going through.
You know, feel free to call andvent, yeah.
Yeah, been there.
(41:32):
And I just met a founder lastnight.
He's on um company number four,three in fintech and he had to
close the last one after sixyears.
And now he's doing somethingcompletely different in sports
entertainment and you know heoffered.
He's like, hey, I've been there, I've had to close the last
company after giving it allafter six years.
And so if you need a, heoffered.
He's like hey, I've been there,I've had to close the last
company after giving it allafter six years.
And so if you need a van, ifyou need to like, you know
(41:56):
anything you want to talk about,just call, like, just ping me,
like I get it right, it is, itis.
You know it is lonely sometimes,right, solo founder or no solo
founder, and so I think you knowit's surrounding yourself with
your peeps sometimes, you know,and we have a tendency to be so
(42:17):
heads down that we forget.
And so I've been trying moreand more, you know, once a week
going to those founders, youknow events and just obviously,
to meet people and network.
But also, you know we aresharing those.
It's easier to share thoseexperiences.
People understand Right, yeah,for sure, and just being a
support network for somebody andthey are my support.
You know what I mean.
Like it's not just one way,right, it's really just being
like, hey, yeah, I can help hereor oh cool, never thought about
(42:40):
it this way.
This is super helpful for meand I think that's something
that we always we have atendency to forget, right,
because we're so heads down tokind of come up for air and
really lean on our fellowfounders sometimes.
So that's what I've been,that's what I've been doing.
So this summer is yet anotherreset for me on self-care.
So let's, let's do that.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, yeah, and just come back stronger and with
clarity and all the things.
Yeah, sometimes rest is thebest thing to do.
You know, I think in Lamontsays if the computers need to be
unplugged and plugged back inand that's how they reset.
Some of us need to do thatevery so often and it's like
okay, now I'm ready to go withfull throttle and I got the
energy, and I think, as afounder and entrepreneur um, the
(43:24):
word balance doesn't reallyexist, because there's days that
you have to go at a hundredpercent, there's days that you
have to go at 100%, there's daysthat you're only working at 20%
and you have to.
It's kind of like you'rejuggling all the different balls
but it's not all equal.
Every day looks different andthere are seasons of grind and
then there are seasons where,like, okay, I can pull back a
little bit now and rest.
You know, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, I don't think it's in that case.
I don't think it's findingwork-life balance, it's finding
your own balance.
I mean, I know it sounds a bitcheesy, but you know it's.
You still need balance in a way.
Now, what does it mean?
Is different, I think foreverybody, um, and.
But there are tactics that work, I think, for most.
Everyone like, to a point,disconnecting, even you know um
(44:09):
once a week, like take a day, atleast take a day off, or
something you know, whatever itis right, obviously, but so I
think it's just in finding yourown balance, right to your point
of, which looks very different,I think, for each entrepreneur
right.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
If it's for you, if it's like just being around
people that understand and getwhat you're going through and
you know, meeting with them oncea week or whatever, then you
feel like, okay, I feelrefreshed now.
Well, elizabeth, I want tohonor your time and I usually
wrap up by asking threequestions.
One is what is the best advicethat someone gave you?
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Um, actually I'm going to do two, cause I'm going
to be greedy, um, first one,take care of your people.
Uh, and I do believe that Ithink you know, at the end of
the day, even as a soloentrepreneur, you rely on quote
unquote a support network.
Um, I don't think you'resuccessful always, you know, on
your own right.
So care for your people,whoever they are.
And I think the second one isjust do it.
(45:06):
Um, you know, I think, uh, it's, it's, it's a Nike moto, right,
like the had that ad right.
But at the end of the day, youknow, all those calculated risk
I took leaving PwC or switchingjobs and then starting boxy, or
the book even, was literallyjust do it, like what, what do
(45:27):
you have to lose?
Right, it works, it doesn'twork.
At the end of the day, it's alearning.
You know you've learnedsomething and just go back.
Even failures are learnings,which I know we're, all you know
, a-type, not liking those, butit's a learning opportunity.
And so I think that's thetwo-one Take care of your people
(45:48):
and just do it.
See what happens.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Yeah, that's.
That's the two.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
One take care of your people and just just do it, see
what happens.
Yeah, that's good.
What are some pivotal books foryou that were transformative in
your life?
Pivotal books?
Uh, interesting, that's a.
I've heard a lot of books uh, inmy life.
Uh, sapience was one of them.
Um, I know it sounds weird andit's a more recent one, but you
know, it was interesting lookingat the history of us right as a
(46:18):
human race and how we've beenthrough you know, the evolution
and, to be honest, remind myselfthat there's way more coming,
that we're always evolving, ifthat makes sense and, um, what
we've contributed as a humanrace in just such a small amount
(46:39):
of time compared to our planet.
Uh, and I know I'm going a bitphilosophical here, but you know
, um, I think this is something,and you know he's written Homo
Deus and now Nexus and aroundinformation.
And I think this is something.
And he's written Homo Deus andnow Nexus and around information
.
And I think for me it's hey,look what we've accomplished,
(47:00):
and some of it is not great,don't get me wrong, but I hope
that with AI, that we get to doeven more and we get our act
together to do a better job attreating each.
You know each other and thisworld.
But you know, those books havereally been for me kind of
thinking through like what's mycontribution?
Right, like how do I contributepotentially to at whatever
(47:25):
level?
Right, it doesn't have to besomething like known and you're
going to be in history books,that's not what I'm saying.
But what's your legacy?
Speaker 1 (47:31):
right Like how are you making a positive impact in
the world?
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Right Exactly Like what, what do you do, or what do
you try to do to make adifference?
And it can be just.
You know, I have two mutts, Ihave two rescues and that's my
good deeds.
You know it doesn't have to belike super extraordinary or
anything like that.
But just how do you rightextraordinary or anything like
that, but just how do you, howdo you change that?
So I think that's one um.
You know there's been I I doread, uh, I mean, I did read a
(47:59):
lot of literature when I wasyounger.
We had to do that.
So there's a couple of books,french books, that were pretty,
pretty fundamental for me interms of uh, and it's not Proust
, so.
So it's not like you know him,cause he's very descriptive and
there was no dialogue in hisbook.
So that was not.
I was not that kind of person.
But you know there's been a lotof um, a couple of books out
(48:19):
there, um, la Chartreuse de, youknow um, that just turned me
into a very big reader that Iwas not when I grew up.
Um, and then, more recentlyit's been a lot of business
books.
You don't say right it's been alot like everybody recommends
(48:40):
books, right, and I think theone that I started, that I was
like oh, you know it makes alittle sense, but it was a good
reminder was hooked, uh, whichis all all about like, how do
you build a product that peoplewant to come back and, to be
honest, I don't think we'rethere yet.
We haven't found a magic wheel,but that's the book I refer to.
A lot in terms of trying tobuild that product.
(49:01):
That you know, is almost anevidence, right, like yeah on it
, and they're hooked on it,right, so yeah, um, so yeah,
three, three things.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
And then they got to know about it too.
So it's like a whole thingRight.
What would you say is thebravest thing you've done?
And there's a lot of pivots anda lot of turns that you took in
your life.
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Speaker 2 (50:05):
Um, I jumped out of airplanes for I was certified.
So here you go.
That's the bravest thing.
I threw myself out of airplanesfor 155 jumps and had to open
my parachute.
You know my safety parachuteonce what.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
How many times did you say you did this?
Speaker 2 (50:24):
155.
I was certified back in France.
I'm not doing it anymore sinceI moved.
Oh my gosh.
I've done a couple of tandemhere and there, but I'm not
certified anymore.
So here you go.
I think that's my.
I threw myself out of anairplane.
That's, that's good.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Yeah, that is no wonder.
You're like not risk averse.
You're like let's quit thiscompany, let's start a company,
let's write a book, let's dostuff, let's just do it.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
It's all calculated risk right.
There are more people dying outof car accidents than jumping
out of airplanes.
That's true.
That's true.
I mean, obviously, the numberof people jumping out of
airplanes is also way smaller,right, right, but it's always
calculated risks, right, and soyou know.
But, yeah, I think that's well,it's not the bravest thing, but
(51:08):
, yeah, it's close to, yeah,close to having done that, you
know.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Is there anything that you'd love to leave with
the listener, maybe something Ihaven't touched on or asked you?
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Two things I think you know, from a book
perspective it was.
I mean, you read it, right,it's very self-deprecating, but
I think the message for me youknow, a lot of people ask me
about the book and why I wroteit and one was to it was for an
American, it is for an Americanaudience, believe it or not,
more than a non-Americanaudience.
And it was to say, hey, it'snot that easy to immigrate in
(51:43):
this country.
There's a lot of contradictionsthat we have to learn, so bear
with us us.
And two was to say, hey, youstill live in a, in a country of
opportunities, no matter what'sgoing on, right, that some of
us, uh and again, france is abit different, but there's
plenty of countries where you'reborn and you don't have those
opportunities, right, you don'tget to go to school, you don't
(52:03):
get to maybe make your own way,uh, and so that was really what
I wanted to, you know, and saythank, say thank you, right, I
don't, like I said, I don'tthink I would have been where
I'm at today if I had not movedand embraced the culture and
this country, I think.
The second is if you're thinkingabout writing a book or
(52:23):
starting a business or anythinglike that.
It's back to just do it.
You know it's scary, um, ofcourse, do it within the
circumstances that work for you,right.
It's not just like, hey, dropeverything and go do it right.
But you know, I think a lot ofpeople sometimes are reluctant
to take the first steps and, youknow, hopefully some of us can
inspire to.
(52:44):
You know, have those peopletake the first step and really
try.
And you know, ping me, I'm onLinkedIn, you know if you want
to talk about it, I'm happy tohelp and support.
But I think that's anexperience that is invaluable
and you won't regret it.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
So yeah Well, elizabeth, you are an
inspiration to so many.
Just the way that you said iscalculated risk, but you're
still taking risks and, as theysay, there are people less
intelligent than you that aredoing the thing and are
successful, because some of us,who are super intelligent, are
overthinking and not taking thatfirst step forward.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yeah, I don't know if it's about intelligence, but
you know, I think we havedifferent kinds of intelligence.
You know, some people are booksmart, street smart, you know,
and I had a very, very booksmart dad, but not very street
smart.
You some of it, you know, and Ihad a very, very book smart dad
, but not very street smart, youknow, it's just, yeah,
intellectual and all that.
So I think it's just take yoursmartness, whatever it is,
(53:38):
whatever it is, we'll have somesmartness and some you know
tricks of the trade, whateveryou want to call it, right,
that's course and figure outwhat you love doing.
Hopefully you can merge.
You know what you love doing.
Hopefully you can merge.
You know what you love doingwith.
You know starting something,whatever it is, and take a risk.
Calculate it, but take a risk.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
Elizabeth, where can people find you?
Speaker 2 (54:01):
LinkedIn is just where to find me.
Feel free to connect anytime.
I'm pretty good at responding,so if there's anything I can do
to help or you want to connect,talk business book, you name it,
feel free.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Well, you guys, check out her book French Landing.
It is going to make you laughand really see some of the
interesting things about US froma perspective of someone as an
outsider.
So I really encourage you toget the book.
Elizabeth, thank you so muchfor your time.
It's been a pleasure talking toyou.
Speaker 2 (54:27):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Thank you for listening to the ones who dare
podcast.
It is an honor to share theseencouraging stories with you.
If you enjoy the show, I wouldlove for you to tell your
friends.
Leave us a reviewer rating andsubscribe to wherever you listen
to podcasts, because this helpsothers discover the show.
You can find me on my website,speckhopoffcom.
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