August 12, 2025 • 47 mins
What if your worst day became the beginning of your best life? At just 9 years old, John O’Leary was burned on 100% of his body in a gasoline explosion—and given a 1% chance to live. But instead of giving up, he chose to fight. And then he chose to lead.
In this raw and powerful conversation, John opens up about the explosion that changed everything, the quiet heroes who helped him through the darkness. We dive into how John wrestled with pain, purpose, and the daily decision to live as a victor, not a victim. As his dad once asked him: “Why not you?” That question became the cornerstone of John’s mission to inspire others to live boldly, love deeply, and find meaning in their own scars.
- A surprise 8-second hospital visit from Hall of Fame broadcaster Jack Buck that changed everything
- The brutal but life-giving encouragement from "Nurse Roy" during agonizing treatments
- The powerful question from his father that shattered his victim mindset: “Why not you?”
- How John transformed trauma into a mission—and why he wouldn’t change a thing
- The story behind his upcoming feature film, Soul on Fire (in theaters Oct. 10)
John’s message isn’t just about survival, it’s about choosing significance over success, turning pain into purpose, and becoming a light in someone else’s darkness.
If you're navigating struggle, burnout, or just craving real inspiration this conversation will change how you see your own story.
🎬 Don’t miss the upcoming film “Soul on Fire,” based on John’s life, premiering nationwide October 10th.
-Links-
https://www.svetkapopov.com/
https://www.instagram.com/svetka_popov/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Wants of your Podcast, which elevates
stories of courage.
I'm Yosveca, and today'sepisode is really, really
special.
And if this is not your firstepisode listening to the podcast
, then you know that I say thata lot, and that is because I
truly aim to bring some of themost incredible, inspiring human
(00:20):
beings on this podcast that canencourage us to live
courageously within our ownstories.
And so today we're sitting downwith the incredible John
O'Leary, who's an author,speaker and one of the most
inspiring humans you'll evermeet.
Trust me, if you don't knowJohn's story yet, buckle up.
At just nine years old, hesurvived a fire that burned 100%
(00:42):
of his body and somehow turnedthat unimaginable pain into
purpose.
Now that story is hitting thebig screen this fall and the new
movie called Soul on Fire, andtoday John's giving us the
behind the scenes.
Look at what it's been like tosee his journey turned into a
feature film.
(01:03):
We talk about resilience, faithand silent superheroes, and if
you listen to this podcast, youknow exactly what I'm talking
about or some people call themguides, and how sometimes the
darkest moments are the onesthat end up lighting the way
forward.
So I promise you guys it'sgoing to move you.
So let's get into this episode.
(01:24):
Hey friends, welcome to theOnes who Dared podcast, where
stories of courage are elevated.
I'm your host, becca, and everyother week you'll hear
interviews from inspiring people.
My hope is that you will leaveencouraged.
I'm so glad you're here.
John O'Leary, welcome to theOnce we Are podcast.
(01:51):
What an honor it is to havethis interview with you today.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well, I wish we started the recording about 12
minutes earlier, because thenindividuals would have heard
more of your story, which isfascinating, and it is an honor
to be with you.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Thank you, which is fascinating, and it is an honor
to be with you.
Thank you Well, you are aremarkable example of human
resilience and why our scarsdon't have to define us.
Instead, they can become ourgreatest teacher.
And I was really deeplyencouraged.
I read your book on fire.
Seeing your TED talk.
I was also really moved by anearly preview of your movie
called Soul on Fire, which Iknow I'm not allowed to give any
spoilers, so I won't, but thatdrops in theaters on October
(02:27):
10th.
So everyone listening, just beon the lookout for that.
And you had one chance ofsurvival after a fire that
burned up a hundred percent ofyour body, with 87% of them
being third degree burns, andbefore that your life was really
good as a nine-year-old.
Can you take us back and sharewhat your life was like before
(02:50):
the fire?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, so what a great way to set up the question.
So let's start with where it istoday.
Today I am married to mycollege sweetheart.
She's gorgeous inside and out.
I have four kids.
They are all teenagers now, soI'm an old dad.
I used to be a young dad andthat's the kind of dad I love.
I love them when they're littleand crazy and life is chaotic.
(03:12):
I am an author of two books anda speaker, and now there's a
film coming out called Soul onFire and it's awesome.
Like this, it's a wild story,and what makes like you, what
makes this story so remarkable,is from where it came, and it is
(03:34):
a story from ashes utter,devastating ashes, and ugliness
and brokenness.
So my story starts back at nineyears old.
I have a mom and a dad who loveeach other and love their six
kids.
We have a big old, fat goldenretriever who eats the scraps
off the table.
I mean, it's just likeAmericana Midwest.
I grew up in St Louis, missouriChurch on Sundays pancakes
(03:56):
afterwards fried chicken atgrandma and grandpa's Sunday
night.
That's my life, yeah.
And then it changes.
So I'm sure that's where youwant to go next.
But I watched early in my lifeas some kids in my neighborhood
were playing with fire andgasoline and these were like
11-year-old, 12-year-old boys inmy neighborhood.
I looked up to them.
I figured if they could do it Icould as well.
So I walked into the garage ona Saturday morning, january 17th
(04:18):
1987, bent over a five-galloncan of gasoline you know it's 42
pounds Set the flame down, bear, hug this metal container and
start to pour and before theliquid came out, the fumes fall
back into the container.
This massive explosion splitsthe can in two, picks up the
(04:41):
child and then launches me 20feet against the far side of the
garage.
So that's the starting point ofthis tragic story.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah.
And then you were rushed to thehospital.
Your parents weren't home rightat that time, which is pretty
crazy, and your siblings managedto help in the way that they
could, which is also reallyremarkable.
And then what happened?
When you got to the hospital,you thought you were really in
trouble because you burned yourhouse down and things were just.
You were really scared to whatyour parents were going to say
(05:14):
and all that.
And what happened after that?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I mean, we just danced like through like 50
miracles.
So my brother, jim, who haddone nothing heroic in his life,
saves my life in mighty ways.
My sister, amy, who was only 11, wearing a nightgown, comes
outside, sees that I'm in thefront yard, burned up, clothes
off, skin missing, and it's thekind of site today that I would
(05:39):
have run from.
And this little 11 year oldpreteen comes over to me and
puts her arms around me and justholds me and she just keeps
saying everything's okay, havefaith and fight, the best is yet
to come.
Things okay, have faith andfight, the best is yet to come.
And as she's saying this, dude,I'm like looking at my body,
it's, it's broken, speck.
I like no clothes on, no skinon.
(06:00):
So I'm in pain in more waysthan physical.
I look up and I see my home andit's got some flames leaping
out of the roof.
So now there's pain around thatand so there's just so much
pain right now.
And I look back at her and said, amy, it's not okay, do me a
favor, like just go back in thehouse and get me a knife.
I'm not going to be okay, weshould just finish this.
(06:22):
And this little girl just holdsme even tighter and says shut
up.
Great response.
Shut up.
What is wrong with you?
She said have faith and fight.
The best is yet to come.
And overhearing this was myseven-year-old sister, so this
is like a true child.
(06:43):
In scripture there's one of myfavorite quotes is no greater
love is there than this, than tolay down your life for one's
friends?
Yeah, this little girl ispreparing to live that out.
She goes back into a burninghouse.
She returns safely with a cupof water.
She throws it right into myface.
She turns and runs right backinto that burning house and does
it a second time and then sheturns one more time, goes into a
(07:07):
burning house, risking her lifefor her brother.
I was back outside throwingthree cups of water right into
my face, and the reason thatstory matters is not only about
love but, as you mentioned inthe intro, like I'm burned on my
entire body 87% was thirddegree the part of my body that
is not is my face.
So not only do you and I havethis conversation and you can
(07:29):
see my nose and face and I cansee yours.
That's lovely, but all of theskin from my entire body came
from my scalp, and thephysicians credit her with
cooling the temperature of thebody enough that they were able
to harvest skin from my scalpand then, slowly over the next
five months, pieced me backtogether.
So her love was not only likehow sweet, she got you water,
(07:54):
she saved my life.
As we go through this story,like you'll just hear, like it's
just a love story.
It's how God uses ordinarypeople to remind them when they
let go of themselves and fightfor the one in front of them,
they can be used for mightypurposes.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, that is one of the things that was really
highlighted in your story iswhat I call silent superheroes,
and to me, my definition ofsilent superheroes are people
who become like our guides.
They come alongside and they dosomething kind for us without
ever expecting anything inreturn.
And you had, besides your momand your family and your sister
(08:31):
and your brother, you had twoextraordinary superheroes,
silent superheroes Nurse Roy andJack Buck.
Tell us about them, becausethey I mean, I was tearing up
reading about them, watchingabout them, and you know one of
I was tearing up reading aboutthem, watching about them, and
you know one of them I alreadyknew.
So it was like it's such abeautiful reminder of how one
(08:52):
person can make such anincredible impact by doing a
small gesture of kindness.
At the Once we Dare podcast.
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(09:37):
Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
So I guess we'll start with Jack Buck.
And it's like a crazy story andyet the next one's even better.
So I got for it.
Jack Buck is a radio announcer.
He's a hall of famer.
He's in seven different hall offames, including baseball and
football and TV and radio, likethis unknown commodity in
particular.
Back in the eighties, when Iwas a kid and I grew up outside
(10:04):
of St Louis, I was a hugeCardinal fan, so I knew the
voice of Jack Buck well becausehe brings to life St Louis
Cardinals baseball.
When I was first brought intothe hospitals my eyes were
swollen shut and it remainedlike that for a couple months
and I was unable to move andrapped from head to toe with
bandages and eventually trachedso I could not speak anymore.
(10:25):
But I could dream, I could prayand I could listen.
So I'm hanging out.
The night I was burned.
The door opens up, I hearfootsteps walk in, a chair comes
across the floor, somebody doesone of these things, and then I
hear the voice say kid, wake up, you are going to live.
(10:49):
Keep fighting, john O'Leary Dayat the Ballpark will make it
all worthwhile.
Keep fighting.
And then he stands, he walksout and he leaves a child in a
hospital bed dying butcompletely restored.
You talk about silentsuperheroes.
This guy came in one time foreight seconds eight seconds and,
(11:13):
I think, changed my life fromthe inside out.
When he left the room I learnedthis later on he leaned his
head against a glass door andjust started weeping.
Of course we all know his greatweakness among the male culture
.
Right and short of the verse inscripture is Jesus wept.
So Jack is a Purple Heartrecipient from World War II Like
(11:34):
this is not a weak person.
This is a very strong, loving,faithful man who served.
His heart was stirred, he weptand now someone comes to comfort
him.
She kneels down and looks upand says Mr Buck, are you all
right?
We can't lose you.
And he says I'm not sure thatthat little boy in 406 won't
make it, Willie.
And the nurse says there'sabsolutely not a chance.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
And when this news shows up, what we do next
informs what happens next.
You know, I think we shouldpray, but we should move our
feet.
What Jack does is he takes ithome, cries, prays journals and
then the following day he comesback, visits this little dying
child and says kid, wake up, I'mback, you are going to live.
(12:20):
Keep fighting.
John O'Leary Day at theBallpark will make it all
worthwhile and you know this.
I think you've read the book.
It shows up in the film likethis guy just keeps coming back
into my life over the next fivemonths encouraging a hopeless
child to fight forward.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, and especially when you at that point, what was
going through your mind?
Because you're, jack coming in,he inserted a little bit of
(13:03):
hope into your being.
But what was going through yourmind, like what were you
thinking?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well, a couple of things.
One before Jack walked in, mymom walked out, and this is now
hours earlier.
But when I first was broughtinto the emergency room,
eventually my mother shows up.
I ask her am I going to die?
And, as any good mother shouldsay, they should respond no,
you're not going to die, you'llbe fine, we'll get you out of
(13:30):
here this afternoon.
That's what good moms do.
Unfortunately, I was not raisedby a good mom.
I was raised by mine, thank God.
Because she looked at me andsays do you want to?
It's your choice, john, it'snot mine, yeah.
And I said, mom, I don't wantto die, gosh, I want to live.
And then she responds good,then look at me, take the hand
(13:52):
of God, walk the journey withhim.
And you fight like you neverfought before.
Your daddy and I will be withyou.
You're not alone, but do yourpart, fight.
And so when she left me withthat challenge, it never
occurred to me again that Iwould die.
You know, like it just nevercrossed my mind.
So I knew I would.
(14:12):
I knew I would pull through.
I knew God was walking with me.
I knew I'd be all right in theend.
But even with that certainty.
There are moments of doubt anddespair and struggle and agony.
And this little boy, thatlittle child man I dealt with a
lot of that during that time andso when Jack came in that first
time, that's where I was.
I was just, I was juststruggling, obviously for good
(14:34):
reason, and once he walked out,I was renewed with hope again.
It's amazing that you know thiswhat happens when you have a
big old goal to look forward toand a friend that will walk with
you toward it and thencelebrate the accomplishment
with you.
So it's not like a trophy youput in your case and you sit and
you look at by yourself.
It was like this wonderfuljourney we were on together and
(14:57):
every single time he came backin my guide, my friends, my
silent angel just kept showingup and serving me and I think he
provided perfect hope when Ineeded that most.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
That's so beautiful.
And then you had Nurse Roy,which was also just an amazing
silent superhero.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
You know, what's crazy about him is I spoke to
him last night on the phone for95 minutes.
Really I have spoken to my wifefor 95 minutes since the
honeymoon like I mean 95 minuteson a phone call.
Who does that?
He is.
He is so humble and cool andloving and tender and just like
(15:39):
a servant-hearted guy.
So we my wife kept peeking inon me last night like still
talking.
I'm like we're rolling.
Babe.
Roy is awesome even today.
Back 37 years ago, when I wasfirst introduced to him, he
walked into my room.
He was responsible for mybandage changes and what that
means.
(15:59):
And you mentioned the pictureand there's like a couple of
pictures that float around theline.
One is of the photo of me inthe emergency room and it just
looks like a morgue shot.
There's even like a piece ofpaper over John's chest that
says like day one post burn.
It's horrible, and yet that'swhere it starts.
That's the beginning of thejourney.
Then there's a few picturesthat are taken two months into
(16:19):
recovery and when you see themthey're even worse somehow,
because as the body heals, itfirst needs to be broken down
before it's built back up again.
It's agonizing and it's Roy andhis team's responsibility to
help break it down, keep itclean, put on the dressing
treatment and then wrap it.
It's a two hour treatmentprocess, two hours of torture,
(16:44):
and so it's bad enough as it is.
But this man used to walk intomy room.
He would pick me up in his arms.
He would then drag me backtoward the bandage chain so I
had no muscle mass on my legs.
He would drag me back and sayto me boy, you are going to walk
again.
You got that.
You might as well move yourfeet, because today you walk and
(17:07):
I'll walk with you Really dragsme back.
And the first time he says thatI hate him.
And then he comes in thefollowing day and I hate him and
I hate him.
And he does this for fivemonths and I hated him every
step along the way.
But when I was eventually wellenough to go back to the
hospital and visit my old heroes, my old friends, my old staff
(17:28):
and nurses, the first person Iput my arms around was Nurse Roy
.
As I walked over to him Irecognized, even as a child, I
was walking because of his loveand his vision and his guidance.
So yeah, man, he did hisbandage changes well.
He loved me well.
He led the team well.
But, similar to Jack Buck, hewas casting a vision that this
(17:49):
is not how the story ends.
And and you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, that's so beautiful.
And for those listening, justand this is just a reminder that
, um, it takes one person tomake an impact right, and your
kindness, the love that you give, the what you notice about
other people and how you cancome alongside someone along
their journey or whatever it isthat they're walking through.
You may not know the impact ofthat small act of kindness in
(18:18):
the moment, just like nurse royactually didn't know how much he
impacted you until way later,which we won't really spoil yet,
so you'll have to watch themovie have you seen the movie
speca?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I have yeah oh my gosh, so I didn't know.
So that's, that's limitedrelease right now on there yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
So we won't give them all the spoilers, but
essentially, we all have theability to make an impact.
You know, no matter theresources you have and whatnot
is, we can make an impact onsomeone's life, and it doesn't
have to be big.
You could be the silentsuperhero in someone's life and
make an impact, just like NurseRoy did by just coming alongside
you.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
John, and so when I go ahead, go for it.
When I saw the honor of beingpart of the production team that
brought this film to life andpart of my job was to think
through what actors should playthese heroes, and when I so, I
reached out to all of them LikeI'm not a I'm not a Hollywood
guy, so like, break the law, man, let's go Ask for forgiveness
(19:15):
later on.
Yeah, I've reached out to likeWilliam H Macy, who William H
Macy is a pretty big name actorand he plays Jack Buck in this
movie.
And I said to him in the filmand in the video I sent him hey,
bill, you're going to play thisguy and I need you to know you
are the hero of this film andlike to join us.
(19:36):
And then I sent a messagesimilar like that to John
Corbett from Sex and the Cityand my Big Fat Greek Wedding and
Northern Exposure and all theseshows.
Man John's another great guy,but I'm like you play my dad,
you're my hero.
But not only that as the filmprogresses, you are the hero of
this film.
And I said that same message tothe lady who plays my mom,
(19:56):
stephanie Shostak, in Iron manand A Million Little Things.
And then the guy, the woman whoplays my wife, macy McLean,
beautiful girl, and I'm like yousee, beauty where no one else
could even look twice Like youare the hero of this film, macy,
join us.
But to Joel Courtney, who playsme, I'm like hey, joel, good
news, bad news.
Dude, the movie is about heroes.
(20:19):
You ain't one of them, man.
You play some kid named JohnO'Leary and about the only thing
he does is he blows up a can ofgasoline.
That's what he did.
And then the rest of the film isabout these individuals who
show up for you where you don'tsee any value at all in your
life.
And I'm like and if that's thekind of guy you want to play, at
the very end you'll figure itout, I hope, and maybe then
(20:45):
you'll recognize the value ofyour life.
So all that to say.
The poster when they designedthe poster for the movie, it's a
picture not of Joel Courtney'sgood side.
He is a handsome guy, but it'snot his good side, it's his bad
side man.
His back is turned to thecamera, his arms are in the air,
he's celebrating life, but it'sactually all a mosaic of all
(21:06):
the individuals within the film.
The reason why that matters.
It goes back to what you justsaid.
You don't need to be a Hall ofFame radio announcer or podcast
host, becca, to change the world.
You don't need to be on thefront line in a burn ward to
change the world.
You don't need to be a fatherwith six kids and one of them
gets burned.
To change the world, you've gotto be willing to say yes to
(21:28):
using the gifts that God hasgiven you freely to serve the
one in front of you.
That's it.
And so this film you know, rightnow, as you and I are
discussing life Superman is thenumber one film in the country.
I'm like good man, I likeSuperman too, but Hollywood does
a great job of putting in frontof us heroes with capes and
blue tights and red underpants,and what I think real life is
(21:50):
about is celebrating actualheroes, yeah, and actual love
and actual heartache and actualfaithfulness and actual tragedy
redeemed, and that's what we'reso excited about Soul on Fire.
And so you know, hollywood's ademocracy If you want to vote,
they will follow you into thenext theater and the next one,
and the next one.
So right now we're voting withhey.
We want more native fiction tomake our struggles go away?
(22:14):
What if we gave them?
What if we voted instead to sayyou know what we want more of
our life?
To remind that we are not alone, that our brokenness can be
redeemed, that God is still Godand that the best is yet to come
, that my life can be used forgood.
So I just encourage folks tovote man, to show up at the
(22:34):
theater, check out Soul on Fire,walk out inspired and
encouraged.
But in addition to that, theywill be paying attention and
they will create more of what wesay we want.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, that's so good.
So, yeah, the movie is trulymoving.
I really encourage you guys togo out there and see it.
In your book on fire, youmentioned to how the individuals
who attain the highest form ofachievement in life don't sprint
towards success, butsignificance.
Can you elaborate a little biton that?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Well, I was told this would not be like a tough
interview.
I thought this would be alllayups, and so now you're like
on page 188 on Soul on Fire.
We're going to go to commercialright now, people Come back Okay
.
So success, undoubtedly that'swhat the world is pursuing.
And the world is not maybe yourworld or your neighbor or the
person listening, but for themost part, the world wants
(23:24):
success.
We want the nicest car, we wantthe nicest house, we want the
most followers, we want thegreatest income, we want our
kids to go to the right schools,in no small part because we
want to be perceived as beingpeople who are successful, right
.
And then there's significance,and these guys are not mutually
exclusive.
They can play together.
I think that's how they should,and I, like I love success, but
(23:48):
not at the cost of significance.
So I would encourage ourfriends to pursue significance.
Pursue becoming the bestversion of yourself in order to
impact the ones in front of you.
Pursue, make it a mightydifference, not to have the
bigger house or the exp kitchen,but so that, in becoming even
better, you can do an evenbetter job of serving the
(24:08):
patient, or your spouse, or yourchildren or my father had
Parkinson's disease for 30 yearsor your dad, whatever it might
be.
Become better, not for you,it's not an in and of itself.
It's so that you can be usedfor good in the lives of others,
and when you do that enoughover time, you also become
successful.
So it's easy to pursue thetrophies, but I would rather
(24:31):
have them be the tale ofsignificance.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
That is so good.
I really, really love that.
In your story you haveobviously you overcame something
really difficult.
How did you choose not to be avictim of the circumstance?
Instead, you became the victor.
How do we choose?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Right.
Well, it's a daily thing.
I mean I had to choose againthis morning.
I look at myself.
You mentioned the pictures.
The pictures aren't much bettertoday than they were 37 years
ago when they took them.
I'm still a burn survivor.
I still have scars from my neckto my toes and, if I choose,
I'm still a victim.
So how do you not?
How do you choose differently?
And awareness is the first stepin any movement forward.
(25:14):
Like be aware of what you'rethinking, of, how you're showing
up, because most people aren'teven aware.
You just yell at the cashierbecause they forgot your cream.
You've every.
I mean, how could she forgetthe cream?
I told her twice cream.
And we're just not fully awareof how we're showing up.
Where I first got a whisper ofawareness was when I was 10.
(25:34):
I was a little boy in awheelchair and my dad, who I
smile thinking about.
He's now in heaven.
But my dad was talking to meabout going back to school the
next day and I'm like dad, don'tmake me go, man.
Like all these kids are goingto make fun of me.
You know my fingers are missingand I'm in the wheelchair still
and I got scars and somebandages.
(25:55):
And he's like you're going.
And then I kept saying why medad Like, why did I get burned?
Why?
Why this tragedy in my life?
Why me?
And there was a moment where hepaused after trying to answer
11 times and finally my sweetdad stood, he walked over to the
door and shut it.
And then, rebecca, he walks backover to me.
(26:16):
He kneeled in front of me, heput his hands on my thighs and
said John, dang it.
And he used a different wordwhy not you?
Why not you?
He said this terrible thing hashappened in your life and if
you want to be a victim to itfor the rest of your life, have
at it.
No one will ever blame you.
You've been through the worst.
(26:40):
And then he goes, or you can bea victor, and every room we roll
you into, or maybe one day youwalk into people will look up in
astonishment at all that you'veovercome in the life you're
leading today.
And then he said, john, victimor victor, your choice, not mine
.
Leans forward, kisses me on theforehead, stands up, walks out,
(27:01):
shuts the door and there's a 10year old boy in a wheelchair,
missing his fingers, missing hisold life, wrestling with.
Which way will I go and if I'mbeing honest with you, like, why
not?
I still wrestle with it andit's not like it's a morning
thing and then you got to ride,it's like it's a moment by
moment by moment thing.
(27:21):
How will you show up in thismoment and now in this one, and
now in this one?
And what I found in my life is,the more I decide to show up as
a victim, the more I become thatand the more that collateral
damage starts showing up, notonly in my life but in the lives
of those I love and the dreamsthat I'm casting for me and for
them.
And the more I show up as avictor, ready to serve and love
the one in front of me,including the reflection in the
(27:43):
mirror, the more there's thisradical benefit.
I don't believe in the secret.
There was a big movement 20years ago about the secret.
I don't think there's a secret.
The secret is seek justice,love, mercy, walk humbly with
God, cast big visions, walkforward.
When you fall, pick yourselfback up, help people around you,
learn from your mistakes, keepmoving forward.
(28:05):
Just be in the embodiment oflove in a marketplace longing
for it.
That's not a secret, it's workand it's faith and it's a choice
.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, that's so beautiful.
And at the same time, I'veheard you say in different
interviews and people ask youthis question a lot and they say
, john, if you can go back intime, would you change what
happened to you?
Your answer is no.
So can you tell us why youchoose?
No, even though you justdescribed how, every day, you
(28:37):
wrestle with OK.
How am I showing up?
Am I showing up as a victor ora victim?
You wrestle with okay.
How am I showing up?
Am I showing up as a victor or avictim Right, having to wrestle
with that on a daily basis,basically, and at the same time,
you wouldn't change whathappened to you.
So tell us why I'm incrediblyselective about the supplements
I choose for me and my family,and Soursop Nutrition Gummies by
(28:57):
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(29:17):
benefits of soothinginflammation, balancing blood
sugars, relieving stress andanxiety and strengthening your
immune system.
Use my code Svetka, that'sS-V-E-T-K-A on
Soursupnutritioncom and get 5%off today.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
So today we're recording our fourth podcast and
there's a little boy who camein earlier.
I won't share much of thedetails of his life, but he has
had a profoundly difficult life.
He's 11.
And he reached out to merandomly and said Mr John, can I
do a podcast interview with you?
And I don't know his platform,but guess what?
I wasn't kicking the tires onit, I didn't care because I know
(29:54):
his backstory and I saidbrother, absolutely.
So he comes in, has a littlesheet of questions in front of
him.
We roll through things likefavorite kind of dog, favorite
car, I mean, and some deeperquestions, favorite scene from
the film Biggest struggle youfaced as a child, like real
questions too.
And then it wraps and his momsays you know it's his birthday
(30:16):
today, but he wanted to share itwith you.
So I'm thinking here's thislittle dude who's been through
struggles I can't fathom and hisadoptive parents.
That's part of the story, justa little part of it.
His adoptive parents hadbrought him in to do a podcast
with Mr John on his birthday.
Why begin answering yourquestion with that?
Because what allows me toconnect with a person who
(30:41):
struggles with things I'll neverfully understand is the fact
that I struggle with things hemay never fully understand
either.
And yet, in the very risk tostruggle with it faithfully, we
can bond over something thatactually unites us.
There's an old theologian quote, and I forget who wrote it but
what is most private andpersonal, most universal and
sacred.
So you shared with me part ofyour story and I don't feel like
(31:03):
I have permission to share thaton this podcast because I don't
know if you have.
But you have your own wildstory generationally.
And yet in sharing that with me, so personal, so private I have
nothing to do with that wildstory.
It bonded us because it alsobecame personal and private to
me.
It's universal now and I, onthe other hand, did burn as a
(31:24):
kid, grew up in the Midwest.
All this, none of it, hasanything to do with you and yet
in sharing it boldly, boom, weunite.
And what has happened and Ithink societally is we are
willing to very quickly judgethose who are broken.
No one candidly, no one does itbetter than christians.
Read the headlines inparticular.
As you and I recorded this fromlast weekend at the cold point
(31:47):
concert man, I mean we are quickto jump on that bandwagon and
judge those, those people, isit's popular.
I find, though, that whenbrokenness can be redeemed and
shared, it unifies, it changes,it redeems, it elevates.
It draws us not only togetherbut forward into the kingdom,
(32:07):
and the more we go through lifelooking down at others or hiding
our own scars, the more it willbe impossible for us to love
the one in front of us.
Well, we are called to meetpeople at the well not in church
, not in the synagogue, not wholook and act and vote and
worship just like you.
We're called to meet leastamong us, where they are, and
put our arm around them, andpart of brokenness allows us to
(32:31):
do that and to be impactful inthat.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, so in that, and to be um, to be impactful in
that yeah, so in that, andsharing that that is your answer
to why you wouldn't change it.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I hope I mean I listen to it.
I feel like I wake up every dayin pain and I hate being stared
at.
I really do, I don't.
I don't.
I don't like being recognizednow as an author, speaker.
But when I said that I I don'tlike being stared at as being
less than I don't like beingseen as having my fingers
missing.
I don't like kids saying mom,what happened to him?
And then a mom saying don'tstare.
I have a Monday morningmotivation that comes up in two
(33:07):
weeks where I write about arecent experience where a lady
paying for something, she pullsback her hand and could not move
again and she gasped my gosh.
When I'm just trying to pay fora little something at a
register and she froze, and thenI froze and then the line built
and like it just awkwardtension.
And yet even these moments, man, are filled with moments of
(33:30):
grace.
So instead of apologizing forhow I show for the difference in
my physical appearance, I tryto use that as a chance to draw
people forward together in life.
And if you do that well overtime, it's transformational not
only for the cashier but for you.
And if then you and I do thatas a cashier in person, what can
(33:51):
we do?
What?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
can we do?
Yeah Well, your story is truly,truly inspiring.
I mean just seeing you get upagain and again and continue to
inspire people, whether it'sthrough your speeches, your
books and the upcoming movie.
What would you say to someonewho feels really stuck various
situations, but just feels likethey can't see the light at the
(34:15):
end of the tunnel?
They are just in a really badsituation.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, I mean, I spent three years as a hospital
chaplain and what I learned onquestions like this is pretty
much almost always just to sitin the silence with people.
So you would think John O'Leary, the motivational speaker and
inspirational films like.
What I've learned in momentslike this is the power of
(34:38):
presence and the power of, likemy sister said to me 37 years
ago, john shut up, so I wouldgive almost no advice.
If you tell me right now, john,the person I'm asking that
question for is me, I would justsit with you, I'd party with
you and, yeah, I would just sitwith you and not say much and
when it came down to it, I mightask you a question or two and a
(34:59):
question or two.
But I think there's power injust being present with someone,
someone else.
I would try, through thatpresence, to remind you, whoever
that you is, that you're notalone.
Um, eventually I might ask yousome questions about the
struggle, about what's going on,maybe what to it, what your
hope is in the midst of it.
I would ask you who else is inthe midst of this thing with you
.
I would probably challenge youto not try to do this thing
(35:23):
alone.
I would beg you to lean intocommunity.
You have to.
You cannot get through struggleon your own.
I would implore you to seekfaith.
I would encourage you to readthe word and to recognize that
you are enduring your struggle.
Find for me one saint fromscripture who also did not.
I can't.
I, you know, I mean my God iscrucified on a cross, like
(35:47):
that's about as stuck as you get, and yet we celebrate it.
It's the craziest thing.
If you really unpack it.
It's just a wild thing.
Like why would you celebratethe worst?
And yet, from being stuck, frombeing in darkness, from being
ignored, from being betrayed,from being beaten and murdered,
we celebrate life, and that'strue in that specific story of
(36:08):
Jesus.
But follow through all thefollowers but you came behind
him and all those who spokeabout his coming.
It's story after story ofindividuals who are stuck and
did not give up on it.
They did not give up on it.
So, as I hugged you goodbyeafter four hours of sitting with
you and a couple hours then oftalking with you, I would then
say trust me, god is workingthrough this thing.
He's worked in my life and Iknow he's working in yours.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Wow, that's so beautiful.
And yeah, I think that that isso right on, because when
someone's grieving or goingthrough something, just being
there, just silently sittingwith them in their pain, is the
greatest gift, right, thepresence.
And they say that loneliness isworse for you than smoking 15
(36:53):
cigarettes a day.
A pack of 15 cigarettes a day,and so, in, over 50% of the
population feels lonely.
Wow, and so that is a gift ofpresence, right, there's nothing
greater than just being present, especially in someone's pain.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
And just to then say so what do you do about that If
you are one of the 50 percenters?
Because apparently that's thenumber and that's a big one.
John, I don't have any friends.
I don't have you.
Good for you, man.
You had a mom and a dad at theend of the table and the golden
retriever.
I did not have that.
I don't have that what I have.
So I'm active in anorganization called Big Brothers
, big Sisters.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
I love that one.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
You said that again.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I said I love that one.
Yeah, I was active in that aswell, before we moved.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
yeah, hey, you know what it's in your community.
It's in almost every communityand if not them one that looks
and smells a lot like it.
A chance for a person to comeinto the life of another, to
pick them up, take them out forice cream, laugh and hang and
shoot baskets and drop them backoff and say I'll see you in a
couple of weeks and do it again.
(37:56):
We did this once.
We graduated a child out.
He became a pastor.
By God's grace, we're now withanother one.
Every time that kid gets out ofmy car, he says the words John,
I love you.
For the listeners, I'm a whiteman of profound blessings.
Pick him up in a nice car.
This is a little boy who livesin the city, he's black, he
(38:18):
knows his dad only because hesees him in the summertime and
that's it.
And yet these people who aredifferent have found a place
where they can love each other,where I find meaning in him and
he finds meaning back with me,and it fills my bucket of not
being lonely.
There's opportunities repletewithin our communities to be of
service to others.
There's soup kitchens andpantries and places to work and
(38:42):
serve and impact.
And so if you are part of the50 percenters and you're like
dude, I got no one.
Then I say you've got a phone,use it, find an organization of
where you can be put to work andyou will leave after day one
with a friend.
If you stick around long enough, you're going to make a whole
lot of friends.
And you stick around longenough, you will begin leaving
that job, leaving that mission,with the words hey, thanks for
(39:03):
coming today, I love you.
So stop smoking and stophanging out in life all by
yourself.
It's too good to do it all byyourself.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yeah, that's powerful .
Thank you for that.
I want to honor your time andwrap up with the last questions,
which are what are threepivotal books in your life,
throughout your life?
Just three books that stand out, that you were like wow, after
reading that it sparkedsomething.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
So, probably in order , I read a book when I was like
young.
Well, I'll celebrate first mymom and dad's book.
It's called Overwhelming Odds.
Not going to find it inlibraries, it's not a huge run,
but I bumped into it and itchanged my life.
It's the story, theunauthorized story, of their
little boy getting burned andwhat came out of that.
(39:52):
And when they wrote that bookit was because they saw their
boy with this goofy grin on analtar and they saw next to their
boy their older boy, jim, andthey saw next to the older boy
four or five other groomsmen.
And then they turned around andthey saw this brunette walking
toward them and they saw thisgorgeous girl take their son's
(40:13):
hand and they eventually utterthe words I do and eventually
kissed him and turned around andtogether they walked down the
aisle.
And so they'd always wonderedwhat will become of this born
little boy's life.
And on that day they got theiranswer and they wrote about it.
And it's just this beautifulstory of little baby miracle
upon little baby miracle.
So that began opening my eyesto the miracle of my life.
(40:38):
Oddly, I wrote a book a coupleof years after that, called the
Alchemist, by Paulo Calo, from,maybe Brazil or somewhere in
South America.
And it's ultimately the storyof a boy who doesn't see value
in his life and goes on thisjourney and he's trying to
figure out where he can findgreat wealth and worth.
And I won't even tell you howit ends, but he eventually
(40:58):
discovers where that value isand it's worth reading.
It's a little work of fictionbut it's good.
And then a book that moved meso much I actually put the
picture of it up on my wall.
It's by Henry Nouwen, I think.
He's an old Jesuit priest fromNorway or something, and he
wrote a book called the Returnof the Prodigal Son.
(41:19):
And he found himself in Russia,at St Petersburg, in a
beautiful museum looking up at aRembrandt.
And it was this massive sixfoot picture that Rembrandt had
painted.
And what made it so remarkable?
Two things.
Number one is he painted it asthe second to last painting of
his career.
But it's the second time hepainted it.
(41:40):
The first time he painted theprodigal son.
It's just kind of this jovialpicture of a son having a lot of
fun and no one cares about thatone.
And then there's this one thathangs in this Russian museum and
it's the father now with a verydainty left hand and a very
masculine right hand pulling theslave child in.
(42:00):
The slave child is missing oneleft foot.
The right foot is kind of likebattered.
He's bald.
It's not a poverty in slavery.
Clothes are draped.
There's an older son with hishands clenched, judging.
You know, that's how we like tojudge those who don't do life
as well as we do.
The older son is judging thereturn of the prodigal son and
(42:21):
in the book it's Henry Nouwensaying to us well, first of all,
rembrandt was able to paintthis because he lost his
marriage, he lost two children,he lost his wealth, he lost his
status.
He recognized what mattered inlife.
He returned to one of the mosthis status.
He recognized what mattered inlife.
He returned to one of the mostimportant things he tried to
paint and he finally figured outhow to do a masterpiece.
(42:41):
Boom, now it's up there forever.
So that's cool.
But the other thing he's showingis we are called in various
stages of life not only torecognize.
We can be judgmental and we canbe broken, but we're called to
be this father and the father'snot masculine, even though we
call him dad.
It's this perfect blend of thefeminine and the masculine
(43:02):
coming together and pulling theone in front of us in tight, no
judgment, tons of grace, tons ofmercy, tons of love.
And so I look at this picturealmost every day before I start
work and definitely every daybefore I leave it, because when
I get home, that's what I wantmy kids to see.
My hands don't look like eitherof those hands, and my beard's
(43:23):
not quite as long as that oldguy's beard, and I very rarely
wear a red cloak, but I want mykids to see in their father this
embodiment of come on, I don'tcare what you did, there will be
, there will be time forcorrection.
Right there, there is, butright now this is about.
(43:44):
This is about love.
You know, my son was gone andnow he's back.
He was dead and now he's alive.
What a great way to go throughlife.
And so the return of theprodigal son by Henry Nowen.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Amazing.
That's so beautiful.
What is the best advice thatsomeone else gave you?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
She never gave it to me, but she modeled it and she
put it up on our refrigerator.
As kids and it was my mothershe had an old sign that said
this too shall pass.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I love that one.
An old sign that said this tooshall pass.
I love that one.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
And when she put that up, she was a house, mom of six
kids and dogs and husband goingoff to work in a tie suit fancy
, successful guy, beautiful home, great community.
But it was a reminder to herhusband, herself and her kids
(44:38):
don't blink, don't wish it away,don't assume that you have this
tomorrow, because this tooshall pass.
So when she lost her house,when her son was burned, when we
dealt with other struggles inthe family that I don't have
permission to share, it was areminder to her that this also
shall pass.
When her husband was diagnosedwith Parkinson's disease and got
sick, when he lost his job andcame home, when they had a
second house fire and losteverything a second time,
(45:01):
including that sign it was stillnow tattooed, not just on the
fridge but on her heart this tooshall pass.
This too shall pass.
And so for me Sebekka you knowyou and I are here talking about
a film and like that to methat's about as high watermark
as you're going to get in lifewhen there's a film coming out
about your life.
But to remain radically humbleI know that sign is true.
(45:25):
This too shall pass.
So I'm grateful that my mom isstill alive.
I'm profoundly grateful I'vegot four babies who are healthy,
who love their parents.
I'm deeply grateful that somegirl who is way outside of my
pay grade said I do 21 years ago.
I'm grateful to do the work Ido.
I'm grateful that folks likeyou reach out and say well, you
(45:45):
sit with me for a little bit andhave a podcast, and I'm
grateful that God saw within hisgraciousness to redeem the
story and to use it to remindother people that they have one
life.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Makers matter.
That's beautiful.
Is there anything I haven'tasked you or?
Speaker 2 (46:05):
anything else you'd like to share or close.
I mean, my favorite car hasalready been asked today by a
previous podcast guest.
Our host favorite color wasalready asked those deep
questions from my 11 year oldhost, final.
Here's what I would say, man,like I always share my
information, like, if you'restruggling, I was there too, and
(46:25):
so if you're like John, I gotno one, you have me now.
So my website'sjohnolieryinspirescom,
johnolieryinspirescom, and onthat little website you'll see
our phone number, you'll see myemail, you'll see our social
media links, you'll see links,of course, to our work, and
you'll see a friend who I can'tbe everywhere, but I can love
(46:45):
you where I am, I can pray withyou, I can support you through,
sometimes, videos or books orwhatever you may need.
So maybe that's what I wouldsay, john, how do people stay in
touch?
And go to my website and I willsit with you, john
alirianspirescom.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Beautiful.
Well, thank you so much foryour time.
It's been just an honor, andeven our 12-minute conversation
prior to this just had me nearlyin tears.
Thank you for encouraging meand just sharing your story.
I know it's going to reallyencourage people listening.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Well, let me know when your book comes out,
because I know a friend whowants to have you on his podcast
.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Okay, sounds good, thank you.
Thank you for listening to theOnce we Dare podcast.
It is an honor to share theseencouraging stories with you.
If you enjoy the show, I wouldlove for you to tell your
friends.
Leave us a reviewer rating andsubscribe to wherever you listen
to podcasts, because this helpsothers discover the show.
You can find me on my website,zvekapopovcom.
Welcome to the Wants of your Podcast, which elevates
stories of courage.
I'm Yosveca, and today'sepisode is really, really
special.
And if this is not your firstepisode listening to the podcast
, then you know that I say thata lot, and that is because I
truly aim to bring some of themost incredible, inspiring human
(00:20):
beings on this podcast that canencourage us to live
courageously within our ownstories.
And so today we're sitting downwith the incredible John
O'Leary, who's an author,speaker and one of the most
inspiring humans you'll evermeet.
Trust me, if you don't knowJohn's story yet, buckle up.
At just nine years old, hesurvived a fire that burned 100%
(00:42):
of his body and somehow turnedthat unimaginable pain into
purpose.
Now that story is hitting thebig screen this fall and the new
movie called Soul on Fire, andtoday John's giving us the
behind the scenes.
Look at what it's been like tosee his journey turned into a
feature film.
(01:03):
We talk about resilience, faithand silent superheroes, and if
you listen to this podcast, youknow exactly what I'm talking
about or some people call themguides, and how sometimes the
darkest moments are the onesthat end up lighting the way
forward.
So I promise you guys it'sgoing to move you.
So let's get into this episode.
(01:24):
Hey friends, welcome to theOnes who Dared podcast, where
stories of courage are elevated.
I'm your host, becca, and everyother week you'll hear
interviews from inspiring people.
My hope is that you will leaveencouraged.
I'm so glad you're here.
John O'Leary, welcome to theOnce we Are podcast.
(01:51):
What an honor it is to havethis interview with you today.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well, I wish we started the recording about 12
minutes earlier, because thenindividuals would have heard
more of your story, which isfascinating, and it is an honor
to be with you.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Thank you, which is fascinating, and it is an honor
to be with you.
Thank you Well, you are aremarkable example of human
resilience and why our scarsdon't have to define us.
Instead, they can become ourgreatest teacher.
And I was really deeplyencouraged.
I read your book on fire.
Seeing your TED talk.
I was also really moved by anearly preview of your movie
called Soul on Fire, which Iknow I'm not allowed to give any
spoilers, so I won't, but thatdrops in theaters on October
(02:27):
10th.
So everyone listening, just beon the lookout for that.
And you had one chance ofsurvival after a fire that
burned up a hundred percent ofyour body, with 87% of them
being third degree burns, andbefore that your life was really
good as a nine-year-old.
Can you take us back and sharewhat your life was like before
(02:50):
the fire?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, so what a great way to set up the question.
So let's start with where it istoday.
Today I am married to mycollege sweetheart.
She's gorgeous inside and out.
I have four kids.
They are all teenagers now, soI'm an old dad.
I used to be a young dad andthat's the kind of dad I love.
I love them when they're littleand crazy and life is chaotic.
(03:12):
I am an author of two books anda speaker, and now there's a
film coming out called Soul onFire and it's awesome.
Like this, it's a wild story,and what makes like you, what
makes this story so remarkable,is from where it came, and it is
(03:34):
a story from ashes utter,devastating ashes, and ugliness
and brokenness.
So my story starts back at nineyears old.
I have a mom and a dad who loveeach other and love their six
kids.
We have a big old, fat goldenretriever who eats the scraps
off the table.
I mean, it's just likeAmericana Midwest.
I grew up in St Louis, missouriChurch on Sundays pancakes
(03:56):
afterwards fried chicken atgrandma and grandpa's Sunday
night.
That's my life, yeah.
And then it changes.
So I'm sure that's where youwant to go next.
But I watched early in my lifeas some kids in my neighborhood
were playing with fire andgasoline and these were like
11-year-old, 12-year-old boys inmy neighborhood.
I looked up to them.
I figured if they could do it Icould as well.
So I walked into the garage ona Saturday morning, january 17th
(04:18):
1987, bent over a five-galloncan of gasoline you know it's 42
pounds Set the flame down, bear, hug this metal container and
start to pour and before theliquid came out, the fumes fall
back into the container.
This massive explosion splitsthe can in two, picks up the
(04:41):
child and then launches me 20feet against the far side of the
garage.
So that's the starting point ofthis tragic story.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah.
And then you were rushed to thehospital.
Your parents weren't home rightat that time, which is pretty
crazy, and your siblings managedto help in the way that they
could, which is also reallyremarkable.
And then what happened?
When you got to the hospital,you thought you were really in
trouble because you burned yourhouse down and things were just.
You were really scared to whatyour parents were going to say
(05:14):
and all that.
And what happened after that?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I mean, we just danced like through like 50
miracles.
So my brother, jim, who haddone nothing heroic in his life,
saves my life in mighty ways.
My sister, amy, who was only 11, wearing a nightgown, comes
outside, sees that I'm in thefront yard, burned up, clothes
off, skin missing, and it's thekind of site today that I would
(05:39):
have run from.
And this little 11 year oldpreteen comes over to me and
puts her arms around me and justholds me and she just keeps
saying everything's okay, havefaith and fight, the best is yet
to come.
Things okay, have faith andfight, the best is yet to come.
And as she's saying this, dude,I'm like looking at my body,
it's, it's broken, speck.
I like no clothes on, no skinon.
(06:00):
So I'm in pain in more waysthan physical.
I look up and I see my home andit's got some flames leaping
out of the roof.
So now there's pain around thatand so there's just so much
pain right now.
And I look back at her and said, amy, it's not okay, do me a
favor, like just go back in thehouse and get me a knife.
I'm not going to be okay, weshould just finish this.
(06:22):
And this little girl just holdsme even tighter and says shut
up.
Great response.
Shut up.
What is wrong with you?
She said have faith and fight.
The best is yet to come.
And overhearing this was myseven-year-old sister, so this
is like a true child.
(06:43):
In scripture there's one of myfavorite quotes is no greater
love is there than this, than tolay down your life for one's
friends?
Yeah, this little girl ispreparing to live that out.
She goes back into a burninghouse.
She returns safely with a cupof water.
She throws it right into myface.
She turns and runs right backinto that burning house and does
it a second time and then sheturns one more time, goes into a
(07:07):
burning house, risking her lifefor her brother.
I was back outside throwingthree cups of water right into
my face, and the reason thatstory matters is not only about
love but, as you mentioned inthe intro, like I'm burned on my
entire body 87% was thirddegree the part of my body that
is not is my face.
So not only do you and I havethis conversation and you can
(07:29):
see my nose and face and I cansee yours.
That's lovely, but all of theskin from my entire body came
from my scalp, and thephysicians credit her with
cooling the temperature of thebody enough that they were able
to harvest skin from my scalpand then, slowly over the next
five months, pieced me backtogether.
So her love was not only likehow sweet, she got you water,
(07:54):
she saved my life.
As we go through this story,like you'll just hear, like it's
just a love story.
It's how God uses ordinarypeople to remind them when they
let go of themselves and fightfor the one in front of them,
they can be used for mightypurposes.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, that is one of the things that was really
highlighted in your story iswhat I call silent superheroes,
and to me, my definition ofsilent superheroes are people
who become like our guides.
They come alongside and they dosomething kind for us without
ever expecting anything inreturn.
And you had, besides your momand your family and your sister
(08:31):
and your brother, you had twoextraordinary superheroes,
silent superheroes Nurse Roy andJack Buck.
Tell us about them, becausethey I mean, I was tearing up
reading about them, watchingabout them, and you know one of
I was tearing up reading aboutthem, watching about them, and
you know one of them I alreadyknew.
So it was like it's such abeautiful reminder of how one
(08:52):
person can make such anincredible impact by doing a
small gesture of kindness.
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Speaker 2 (09:40):
So I guess we'll start with Jack Buck.
And it's like a crazy story andyet the next one's even better.
So I got for it.
Jack Buck is a radio announcer.
He's a hall of famer.
He's in seven different hall offames, including baseball and
football and TV and radio, likethis unknown commodity in
particular.
Back in the eighties, when Iwas a kid and I grew up outside
(10:04):
of St Louis, I was a hugeCardinal fan, so I knew the
voice of Jack Buck well becausehe brings to life St Louis
Cardinals baseball.
When I was first brought intothe hospitals my eyes were
swollen shut and it remainedlike that for a couple months
and I was unable to move andrapped from head to toe with
bandages and eventually trachedso I could not speak anymore.
(10:25):
But I could dream, I could prayand I could listen.
So I'm hanging out.
The night I was burned.
The door opens up, I hearfootsteps walk in, a chair comes
across the floor, somebody doesone of these things, and then I
hear the voice say kid, wake up, you are going to live.
(10:49):
Keep fighting, john O'Leary Dayat the Ballpark will make it
all worthwhile.
Keep fighting.
And then he stands, he walksout and he leaves a child in a
hospital bed dying butcompletely restored.
You talk about silentsuperheroes.
This guy came in one time foreight seconds eight seconds and,
(11:13):
I think, changed my life fromthe inside out.
When he left the room I learnedthis later on he leaned his
head against a glass door andjust started weeping.
Of course we all know his greatweakness among the male culture
.
Right and short of the verse inscripture is Jesus wept.
So Jack is a Purple Heartrecipient from World War II Like
(11:34):
this is not a weak person.
This is a very strong, loving,faithful man who served.
His heart was stirred, he weptand now someone comes to comfort
him.
She kneels down and looks upand says Mr Buck, are you all
right?
We can't lose you.
And he says I'm not sure thatthat little boy in 406 won't
make it, Willie.
And the nurse says there'sabsolutely not a chance.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
And when this news shows up, what we do next
informs what happens next.
You know, I think we shouldpray, but we should move our
feet.
What Jack does is he takes ithome, cries, prays journals and
then the following day he comesback, visits this little dying
child and says kid, wake up, I'mback, you are going to live.
(12:20):
Keep fighting.
John O'Leary Day at theBallpark will make it all
worthwhile and you know this.
I think you've read the book.
It shows up in the film likethis guy just keeps coming back
into my life over the next fivemonths encouraging a hopeless
child to fight forward.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, and especially when you at that point, what was
going through your mind?
Because you're, jack coming in,he inserted a little bit of
(13:03):
hope into your being.
But what was going through yourmind, like what were you
thinking?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well, a couple of things.
One before Jack walked in, mymom walked out, and this is now
hours earlier.
But when I first was broughtinto the emergency room,
eventually my mother shows up.
I ask her am I going to die?
And, as any good mother shouldsay, they should respond no,
you're not going to die, you'llbe fine, we'll get you out of
(13:30):
here this afternoon.
That's what good moms do.
Unfortunately, I was not raisedby a good mom.
I was raised by mine, thank God.
Because she looked at me andsays do you want to?
It's your choice, john, it'snot mine, yeah.
And I said, mom, I don't wantto die, gosh, I want to live.
And then she responds good,then look at me, take the hand
(13:52):
of God, walk the journey withhim.
And you fight like you neverfought before.
Your daddy and I will be withyou.
You're not alone, but do yourpart, fight.
And so when she left me withthat challenge, it never
occurred to me again that Iwould die.
You know, like it just nevercrossed my mind.
So I knew I would.
(14:12):
I knew I would pull through.
I knew God was walking with me.
I knew I'd be all right in theend.
But even with that certainty.
There are moments of doubt anddespair and struggle and agony.
And this little boy, thatlittle child man I dealt with a
lot of that during that time andso when Jack came in that first
time, that's where I was.
I was just, I was juststruggling, obviously for good
(14:34):
reason, and once he walked out,I was renewed with hope again.
It's amazing that you know thiswhat happens when you have a
big old goal to look forward toand a friend that will walk with
you toward it and thencelebrate the accomplishment
with you.
So it's not like a trophy youput in your case and you sit and
you look at by yourself.
It was like this wonderfuljourney we were on together and
(14:57):
every single time he came backin my guide, my friends, my
silent angel just kept showingup and serving me and I think he
provided perfect hope when Ineeded that most.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
That's so beautiful.
And then you had Nurse Roy,which was also just an amazing
silent superhero.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
You know, what's crazy about him is I spoke to
him last night on the phone for95 minutes.
Really I have spoken to my wifefor 95 minutes since the
honeymoon like I mean 95 minuteson a phone call.
Who does that?
He is.
He is so humble and cool andloving and tender and just like
(15:39):
a servant-hearted guy.
So we my wife kept peeking inon me last night like still
talking.
I'm like we're rolling.
Babe.
Roy is awesome even today.
Back 37 years ago, when I wasfirst introduced to him, he
walked into my room.
He was responsible for mybandage changes and what that
means.
(15:59):
And you mentioned the pictureand there's like a couple of
pictures that float around theline.
One is of the photo of me inthe emergency room and it just
looks like a morgue shot.
There's even like a piece ofpaper over John's chest that
says like day one post burn.
It's horrible, and yet that'swhere it starts.
That's the beginning of thejourney.
Then there's a few picturesthat are taken two months into
(16:19):
recovery and when you see themthey're even worse somehow,
because as the body heals, itfirst needs to be broken down
before it's built back up again.
It's agonizing and it's Roy andhis team's responsibility to
help break it down, keep itclean, put on the dressing
treatment and then wrap it.
It's a two hour treatmentprocess, two hours of torture,
(16:44):
and so it's bad enough as it is.
But this man used to walk intomy room.
He would pick me up in his arms.
He would then drag me backtoward the bandage chain so I
had no muscle mass on my legs.
He would drag me back and sayto me boy, you are going to walk
again.
You got that.
You might as well move yourfeet, because today you walk and
(17:07):
I'll walk with you Really dragsme back.
And the first time he says thatI hate him.
And then he comes in thefollowing day and I hate him and
I hate him.
And he does this for fivemonths and I hated him every
step along the way.
But when I was eventually wellenough to go back to the
hospital and visit my old heroes, my old friends, my old staff
(17:28):
and nurses, the first person Iput my arms around was Nurse Roy
.
As I walked over to him Irecognized, even as a child, I
was walking because of his loveand his vision and his guidance.
So yeah, man, he did hisbandage changes well.
He loved me well.
He led the team well.
But, similar to Jack Buck, hewas casting a vision that this
(17:49):
is not how the story ends.
And and you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, that's so beautiful.
And for those listening, justand this is just a reminder that
, um, it takes one person tomake an impact right, and your
kindness, the love that you give, the what you notice about
other people and how you cancome alongside someone along
their journey or whatever it isthat they're walking through.
You may not know the impact ofthat small act of kindness in
(18:18):
the moment, just like nurse royactually didn't know how much he
impacted you until way later,which we won't really spoil yet,
so you'll have to watch themovie have you seen the movie
speca?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I have yeah oh my gosh, so I didn't know.
So that's, that's limitedrelease right now on there yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
So we won't give them all the spoilers, but
essentially, we all have theability to make an impact.
You know, no matter theresources you have and whatnot
is, we can make an impact onsomeone's life, and it doesn't
have to be big.
You could be the silentsuperhero in someone's life and
make an impact, just like NurseRoy did by just coming alongside
you.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
John, and so when I go ahead, go for it.
When I saw the honor of beingpart of the production team that
brought this film to life andpart of my job was to think
through what actors should playthese heroes, and when I so, I
reached out to all of them LikeI'm not a I'm not a Hollywood
guy, so like, break the law, man, let's go Ask for forgiveness
(19:15):
later on.
Yeah, I've reached out to likeWilliam H Macy, who William H
Macy is a pretty big name actorand he plays Jack Buck in this
movie.
And I said to him in the filmand in the video I sent him hey,
bill, you're going to play thisguy and I need you to know you
are the hero of this film andlike to join us.
(19:36):
And then I sent a messagesimilar like that to John
Corbett from Sex and the Cityand my Big Fat Greek Wedding and
Northern Exposure and all theseshows.
Man John's another great guy,but I'm like you play my dad,
you're my hero.
But not only that as the filmprogresses, you are the hero of
this film.
And I said that same message tothe lady who plays my mom,
(19:56):
stephanie Shostak, in Iron manand A Million Little Things.
And then the guy, the woman whoplays my wife, macy McLean,
beautiful girl, and I'm like yousee, beauty where no one else
could even look twice Like youare the hero of this film, macy,
join us.
But to Joel Courtney, who playsme, I'm like hey, joel, good
news, bad news.
Dude, the movie is about heroes.
(20:19):
You ain't one of them, man.
You play some kid named JohnO'Leary and about the only thing
he does is he blows up a can ofgasoline.
That's what he did.
And then the rest of the film isabout these individuals who
show up for you where you don'tsee any value at all in your
life.
And I'm like and if that's thekind of guy you want to play, at
the very end you'll figure itout, I hope, and maybe then
(20:45):
you'll recognize the value ofyour life.
So all that to say.
The poster when they designedthe poster for the movie, it's a
picture not of Joel Courtney'sgood side.
He is a handsome guy, but it'snot his good side, it's his bad
side man.
His back is turned to thecamera, his arms are in the air,
he's celebrating life, but it'sactually all a mosaic of all
(21:06):
the individuals within the film.
The reason why that matters.
It goes back to what you justsaid.
You don't need to be a Hall ofFame radio announcer or podcast
host, becca, to change the world.
You don't need to be on thefront line in a burn ward to
change the world.
You don't need to be a fatherwith six kids and one of them
gets burned.
To change the world, you've gotto be willing to say yes to
(21:28):
using the gifts that God hasgiven you freely to serve the
one in front of you.
That's it.
And so this film you know, rightnow, as you and I are
discussing life Superman is thenumber one film in the country.
I'm like good man, I likeSuperman too, but Hollywood does
a great job of putting in frontof us heroes with capes and
blue tights and red underpants,and what I think real life is
(21:50):
about is celebrating actualheroes, yeah, and actual love
and actual heartache and actualfaithfulness and actual tragedy
redeemed, and that's what we'reso excited about Soul on Fire.
And so you know, hollywood's ademocracy If you want to vote,
they will follow you into thenext theater and the next one,
and the next one.
So right now we're voting withhey.
We want more native fiction tomake our struggles go away?
(22:14):
What if we gave them?
What if we voted instead to sayyou know what we want more of
our life?
To remind that we are not alone, that our brokenness can be
redeemed, that God is still Godand that the best is yet to come
, that my life can be used forgood.
So I just encourage folks tovote man, to show up at the
(22:34):
theater, check out Soul on Fire,walk out inspired and
encouraged.
But in addition to that, theywill be paying attention and
they will create more of what wesay we want.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, that's so good.
So, yeah, the movie is trulymoving.
I really encourage you guys togo out there and see it.
In your book on fire, youmentioned to how the individuals
who attain the highest form ofachievement in life don't sprint
towards success, butsignificance.
Can you elaborate a little biton that?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Well, I was told this would not be like a tough
interview.
I thought this would be alllayups, and so now you're like
on page 188 on Soul on Fire.
We're going to go to commercialright now, people Come back Okay
.
So success, undoubtedly that'swhat the world is pursuing.
And the world is not maybe yourworld or your neighbor or the
person listening, but for themost part, the world wants
(23:24):
success.
We want the nicest car, we wantthe nicest house, we want the
most followers, we want thegreatest income, we want our
kids to go to the right schools,in no small part because we
want to be perceived as beingpeople who are successful, right
.
And then there's significance,and these guys are not mutually
exclusive.
They can play together.
I think that's how they should,and I, like I love success, but
(23:48):
not at the cost of significance.
So I would encourage ourfriends to pursue significance.
Pursue becoming the bestversion of yourself in order to
impact the ones in front of you.
Pursue, make it a mightydifference, not to have the
bigger house or the exp kitchen,but so that, in becoming even
better, you can do an evenbetter job of serving the
(24:08):
patient, or your spouse, or yourchildren or my father had
Parkinson's disease for 30 yearsor your dad, whatever it might
be.
Become better, not for you,it's not an in and of itself.
It's so that you can be usedfor good in the lives of others,
and when you do that enoughover time, you also become
successful.
So it's easy to pursue thetrophies, but I would rather
(24:31):
have them be the tale ofsignificance.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
That is so good.
I really, really love that.
In your story you haveobviously you overcame something
really difficult.
How did you choose not to be avictim of the circumstance?
Instead, you became the victor.
How do we choose?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Right.
Well, it's a daily thing.
I mean I had to choose againthis morning.
I look at myself.
You mentioned the pictures.
The pictures aren't much bettertoday than they were 37 years
ago when they took them.
I'm still a burn survivor.
I still have scars from my neckto my toes and, if I choose,
I'm still a victim.
So how do you not?
How do you choose differently?
And awareness is the first stepin any movement forward.
(25:14):
Like be aware of what you'rethinking, of, how you're showing
up, because most people aren'teven aware.
You just yell at the cashierbecause they forgot your cream.
You've every.
I mean, how could she forgetthe cream?
I told her twice cream.
And we're just not fully awareof how we're showing up.
Where I first got a whisper ofawareness was when I was 10.
(25:34):
I was a little boy in awheelchair and my dad, who I
smile thinking about.
He's now in heaven.
But my dad was talking to meabout going back to school the
next day and I'm like dad, don'tmake me go, man.
Like all these kids are goingto make fun of me.
You know my fingers are missingand I'm in the wheelchair still
and I got scars and somebandages.
(25:55):
And he's like you're going.
And then I kept saying why medad Like, why did I get burned?
Why?
Why this tragedy in my life?
Why me?
And there was a moment where hepaused after trying to answer
11 times and finally my sweetdad stood, he walked over to the
door and shut it.
And then, rebecca, he walks backover to me.
(26:16):
He kneeled in front of me, heput his hands on my thighs and
said John, dang it.
And he used a different wordwhy not you?
Why not you?
He said this terrible thing hashappened in your life and if
you want to be a victim to itfor the rest of your life, have
at it.
No one will ever blame you.
You've been through the worst.
(26:40):
And then he goes, or you can bea victor, and every room we roll
you into, or maybe one day youwalk into people will look up in
astonishment at all that you'veovercome in the life you're
leading today.
And then he said, john, victimor victor, your choice, not mine
.
Leans forward, kisses me on theforehead, stands up, walks out,
(27:01):
shuts the door and there's a 10year old boy in a wheelchair,
missing his fingers, missing hisold life, wrestling with.
Which way will I go and if I'mbeing honest with you, like, why
not?
I still wrestle with it andit's not like it's a morning
thing and then you got to ride,it's like it's a moment by
moment by moment thing.
(27:21):
How will you show up in thismoment and now in this one, and
now in this one?
And what I found in my life is,the more I decide to show up as
a victim, the more I become thatand the more that collateral
damage starts showing up, notonly in my life but in the lives
of those I love and the dreamsthat I'm casting for me and for
them.
And the more I show up as avictor, ready to serve and love
the one in front of me,including the reflection in the
(27:43):
mirror, the more there's thisradical benefit.
I don't believe in the secret.
There was a big movement 20years ago about the secret.
I don't think there's a secret.
The secret is seek justice,love, mercy, walk humbly with
God, cast big visions, walkforward.
When you fall, pick yourselfback up, help people around you,
learn from your mistakes, keepmoving forward.
(28:05):
Just be in the embodiment oflove in a marketplace longing
for it.
That's not a secret, it's workand it's faith and it's a choice
.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, that's so beautiful.
And at the same time, I'veheard you say in different
interviews and people ask youthis question a lot and they say
, john, if you can go back intime, would you change what
happened to you?
Your answer is no.
So can you tell us why youchoose?
No, even though you justdescribed how, every day, you
(28:37):
wrestle with OK.
How am I showing up?
Am I showing up as a victor ora victim?
You wrestle with okay.
How am I showing up?
Am I showing up as a victor or avictim Right, having to wrestle
with that on a daily basis,basically, and at the same time,
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Speaker 2 (29:31):
So today we're recording our fourth podcast and
there's a little boy who camein earlier.
I won't share much of thedetails of his life, but he has
had a profoundly difficult life.
He's 11.
And he reached out to merandomly and said Mr John, can I
do a podcast interview with you?
And I don't know his platform,but guess what?
I wasn't kicking the tires onit, I didn't care because I know
(29:54):
his backstory and I saidbrother, absolutely.
So he comes in, has a littlesheet of questions in front of
him.
We roll through things likefavorite kind of dog, favorite
car, I mean, and some deeperquestions, favorite scene from
the film Biggest struggle youfaced as a child, like real
questions too.
And then it wraps and his momsays you know it's his birthday
(30:16):
today, but he wanted to share itwith you.
So I'm thinking here's thislittle dude who's been through
struggles I can't fathom and hisadoptive parents.
That's part of the story, justa little part of it.
His adoptive parents hadbrought him in to do a podcast
with Mr John on his birthday.
Why begin answering yourquestion with that?
Because what allows me toconnect with a person who
(30:41):
struggles with things I'll neverfully understand is the fact
that I struggle with things hemay never fully understand
either.
And yet, in the very risk tostruggle with it faithfully, we
can bond over something thatactually unites us.
There's an old theologian quote, and I forget who wrote it but
what is most private andpersonal, most universal and
sacred.
So you shared with me part ofyour story and I don't feel like
(31:03):
I have permission to share thaton this podcast because I don't
know if you have.
But you have your own wildstory generationally.
And yet in sharing that with me, so personal, so private I have
nothing to do with that wildstory.
It bonded us because it alsobecame personal and private to
me.
It's universal now and I, onthe other hand, did burn as a
(31:24):
kid, grew up in the Midwest.
All this, none of it, hasanything to do with you and yet
in sharing it boldly, boom, weunite.
And what has happened and Ithink societally is we are
willing to very quickly judgethose who are broken.
No one candidly, no one does itbetter than christians.
Read the headlines inparticular.
As you and I recorded this fromlast weekend at the cold point
(31:47):
concert man, I mean we are quickto jump on that bandwagon and
judge those, those people, isit's popular.
I find, though, that whenbrokenness can be redeemed and
shared, it unifies, it changes,it redeems, it elevates.
It draws us not only togetherbut forward into the kingdom,
(32:07):
and the more we go through lifelooking down at others or hiding
our own scars, the more it willbe impossible for us to love
the one in front of us.
Well, we are called to meetpeople at the well not in church
, not in the synagogue, not wholook and act and vote and
worship just like you.
We're called to meet leastamong us, where they are, and
put our arm around them, andpart of brokenness allows us to
(32:31):
do that and to be impactful inthat.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, so in that, and to be um, to be impactful in
that yeah, so in that, andsharing that that is your answer
to why you wouldn't change it.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I hope I mean I listen to it.
I feel like I wake up every dayin pain and I hate being stared
at.
I really do, I don't.
I don't.
I don't like being recognizednow as an author, speaker.
But when I said that I I don'tlike being stared at as being
less than I don't like beingseen as having my fingers
missing.
I don't like kids saying mom,what happened to him?
And then a mom saying don'tstare.
I have a Monday morningmotivation that comes up in two
(33:07):
weeks where I write about arecent experience where a lady
paying for something, she pullsback her hand and could not move
again and she gasped my gosh.
When I'm just trying to pay fora little something at a
register and she froze, and thenI froze and then the line built
and like it just awkwardtension.
And yet even these moments, man, are filled with moments of
(33:30):
grace.
So instead of apologizing forhow I show for the difference in
my physical appearance, I tryto use that as a chance to draw
people forward together in life.
And if you do that well overtime, it's transformational not
only for the cashier but for you.
And if then you and I do thatas a cashier in person, what can
(33:51):
we do?
What?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
can we do?
Yeah Well, your story is truly,truly inspiring.
I mean just seeing you get upagain and again and continue to
inspire people, whether it'sthrough your speeches, your
books and the upcoming movie.
What would you say to someonewho feels really stuck various
situations, but just feels likethey can't see the light at the
(34:15):
end of the tunnel?
They are just in a really badsituation.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, I mean, I spent three years as a hospital
chaplain and what I learned onquestions like this is pretty
much almost always just to sitin the silence with people.
So you would think John O'Leary, the motivational speaker and
inspirational films like.
What I've learned in momentslike this is the power of
(34:38):
presence and the power of, likemy sister said to me 37 years
ago, john shut up, so I wouldgive almost no advice.
If you tell me right now, john,the person I'm asking that
question for is me, I would justsit with you, I'd party with
you and, yeah, I would just sitwith you and not say much and
when it came down to it, I mightask you a question or two and a
(34:59):
question or two.
But I think there's power injust being present with someone,
someone else.
I would try, through thatpresence, to remind you, whoever
that you is, that you're notalone.
Um, eventually I might ask yousome questions about the
struggle, about what's going on,maybe what to it, what your
hope is in the midst of it.
I would ask you who else is inthe midst of this thing with you
.
I would probably challenge youto not try to do this thing
(35:23):
alone.
I would beg you to lean intocommunity.
You have to.
You cannot get through struggleon your own.
I would implore you to seekfaith.
I would encourage you to readthe word and to recognize that
you are enduring your struggle.
Find for me one saint fromscripture who also did not.
I can't.
I, you know, I mean my God iscrucified on a cross, like
(35:47):
that's about as stuck as you get, and yet we celebrate it.
It's the craziest thing.
If you really unpack it.
It's just a wild thing.
Like why would you celebratethe worst?
And yet, from being stuck, frombeing in darkness, from being
ignored, from being betrayed,from being beaten and murdered,
we celebrate life, and that'strue in that specific story of
(36:08):
Jesus.
But follow through all thefollowers but you came behind
him and all those who spokeabout his coming.
It's story after story ofindividuals who are stuck and
did not give up on it.
They did not give up on it.
So, as I hugged you goodbyeafter four hours of sitting with
you and a couple hours then oftalking with you, I would then
say trust me, god is workingthrough this thing.
He's worked in my life and Iknow he's working in yours.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Wow, that's so beautiful.
And yeah, I think that that isso right on, because when
someone's grieving or goingthrough something, just being
there, just silently sittingwith them in their pain, is the
greatest gift, right, thepresence.
And they say that loneliness isworse for you than smoking 15
(36:53):
cigarettes a day.
A pack of 15 cigarettes a day,and so, in, over 50% of the
population feels lonely.
Wow, and so that is a gift ofpresence, right, there's nothing
greater than just being present, especially in someone's pain.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
And just to then say so what do you do about that If
you are one of the 50 percenters?
Because apparently that's thenumber and that's a big one.
John, I don't have any friends.
I don't have you.
Good for you, man.
You had a mom and a dad at theend of the table and the golden
retriever.
I did not have that.
I don't have that what I have.
So I'm active in anorganization called Big Brothers
, big Sisters.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
I love that one.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
You said that again.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I said I love that one.
Yeah, I was active in that aswell, before we moved.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
yeah, hey, you know what it's in your community.
It's in almost every communityand if not them one that looks
and smells a lot like it.
A chance for a person to comeinto the life of another, to
pick them up, take them out forice cream, laugh and hang and
shoot baskets and drop them backoff and say I'll see you in a
couple of weeks and do it again.
(37:56):
We did this once.
We graduated a child out.
He became a pastor.
By God's grace, we're now withanother one.
Every time that kid gets out ofmy car, he says the words John,
I love you.
For the listeners, I'm a whiteman of profound blessings.
Pick him up in a nice car.
This is a little boy who livesin the city, he's black, he
(38:18):
knows his dad only because hesees him in the summertime and
that's it.
And yet these people who aredifferent have found a place
where they can love each other,where I find meaning in him and
he finds meaning back with me,and it fills my bucket of not
being lonely.
There's opportunities repletewithin our communities to be of
service to others.
There's soup kitchens andpantries and places to work and
(38:42):
serve and impact.
And so if you are part of the50 percenters and you're like
dude, I got no one.
Then I say you've got a phone,use it, find an organization of
where you can be put to work andyou will leave after day one
with a friend.
If you stick around long enough, you're going to make a whole
lot of friends.
And you stick around longenough, you will begin leaving
that job, leaving that mission,with the words hey, thanks for
(39:03):
coming today, I love you.
So stop smoking and stophanging out in life all by
yourself.
It's too good to do it all byyourself.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yeah, that's powerful .
Thank you for that.
I want to honor your time andwrap up with the last questions,
which are what are threepivotal books in your life,
throughout your life?
Just three books that stand out, that you were like wow, after
reading that it sparkedsomething.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
So, probably in order , I read a book when I was like
young.
Well, I'll celebrate first mymom and dad's book.
It's called Overwhelming Odds.
Not going to find it inlibraries, it's not a huge run,
but I bumped into it and itchanged my life.
It's the story, theunauthorized story, of their
little boy getting burned andwhat came out of that.
(39:52):
And when they wrote that bookit was because they saw their
boy with this goofy grin on analtar and they saw next to their
boy their older boy, jim, andthey saw next to the older boy
four or five other groomsmen.
And then they turned around andthey saw this brunette walking
toward them and they saw thisgorgeous girl take their son's
(40:13):
hand and they eventually utterthe words I do and eventually
kissed him and turned around andtogether they walked down the
aisle.
And so they'd always wonderedwhat will become of this born
little boy's life.
And on that day they got theiranswer and they wrote about it.
And it's just this beautifulstory of little baby miracle
upon little baby miracle.
So that began opening my eyesto the miracle of my life.
(40:38):
Oddly, I wrote a book a coupleof years after that, called the
Alchemist, by Paulo Calo, from,maybe Brazil or somewhere in
South America.
And it's ultimately the storyof a boy who doesn't see value
in his life and goes on thisjourney and he's trying to
figure out where he can findgreat wealth and worth.
And I won't even tell you howit ends, but he eventually
(40:58):
discovers where that value isand it's worth reading.
It's a little work of fictionbut it's good.
And then a book that moved meso much I actually put the
picture of it up on my wall.
It's by Henry Nouwen, I think.
He's an old Jesuit priest fromNorway or something, and he
wrote a book called the Returnof the Prodigal Son.
(41:19):
And he found himself in Russia,at St Petersburg, in a
beautiful museum looking up at aRembrandt.
And it was this massive sixfoot picture that Rembrandt had
painted.
And what made it so remarkable?
Two things.
Number one is he painted it asthe second to last painting of
his career.
But it's the second time hepainted it.
(41:40):
The first time he painted theprodigal son.
It's just kind of this jovialpicture of a son having a lot of
fun and no one cares about thatone.
And then there's this one thathangs in this Russian museum and
it's the father now with a verydainty left hand and a very
masculine right hand pulling theslave child in.
(42:00):
The slave child is missing oneleft foot.
The right foot is kind of likebattered.
He's bald.
It's not a poverty in slavery.
Clothes are draped.
There's an older son with hishands clenched, judging.
You know, that's how we like tojudge those who don't do life
as well as we do.
The older son is judging thereturn of the prodigal son and
(42:21):
in the book it's Henry Nouwensaying to us well, first of all,
rembrandt was able to paintthis because he lost his
marriage, he lost two children,he lost his wealth, he lost his
status.
He recognized what mattered inlife.
He returned to one of the mosthis status.
He recognized what mattered inlife.
He returned to one of the mostimportant things he tried to
paint and he finally figured outhow to do a masterpiece.
(42:41):
Boom, now it's up there forever.
So that's cool.
But the other thing he's showingis we are called in various
stages of life not only torecognize.
We can be judgmental and we canbe broken, but we're called to
be this father and the father'snot masculine, even though we
call him dad.
It's this perfect blend of thefeminine and the masculine
(43:02):
coming together and pulling theone in front of us in tight, no
judgment, tons of grace, tons ofmercy, tons of love.
And so I look at this picturealmost every day before I start
work and definitely every daybefore I leave it, because when
I get home, that's what I wantmy kids to see.
My hands don't look like eitherof those hands, and my beard's
(43:23):
not quite as long as that oldguy's beard, and I very rarely
wear a red cloak, but I want mykids to see in their father this
embodiment of come on, I don'tcare what you did, there will be
, there will be time forcorrection.
Right there, there is, butright now this is about.
(43:44):
This is about love.
You know, my son was gone andnow he's back.
He was dead and now he's alive.
What a great way to go throughlife.
And so the return of theprodigal son by Henry Nowen.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Amazing.
That's so beautiful.
What is the best advice thatsomeone else gave you?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
She never gave it to me, but she modeled it and she
put it up on our refrigerator.
As kids and it was my mothershe had an old sign that said
this too shall pass.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I love that one.
An old sign that said this tooshall pass.
I love that one.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
And when she put that up, she was a house, mom of six
kids and dogs and husband goingoff to work in a tie suit fancy
, successful guy, beautiful home, great community.
But it was a reminder to herhusband, herself and her kids
(44:38):
don't blink, don't wish it away,don't assume that you have this
tomorrow, because this tooshall pass.
So when she lost her house,when her son was burned, when we
dealt with other struggles inthe family that I don't have
permission to share, it was areminder to her that this also
shall pass.
When her husband was diagnosedwith Parkinson's disease and got
sick, when he lost his job andcame home, when they had a
second house fire and losteverything a second time,
(45:01):
including that sign it was stillnow tattooed, not just on the
fridge but on her heart this tooshall pass.
This too shall pass.
And so for me Sebekka you knowyou and I are here talking about
a film and like that to methat's about as high watermark
as you're going to get in lifewhen there's a film coming out
about your life.
But to remain radically humbleI know that sign is true.
(45:25):
This too shall pass.
So I'm grateful that my mom isstill alive.
I'm profoundly grateful I'vegot four babies who are healthy,
who love their parents.
I'm deeply grateful that somegirl who is way outside of my
pay grade said I do 21 years ago.
I'm grateful to do the work Ido.
I'm grateful that folks likeyou reach out and say well, you
(45:45):
sit with me for a little bit andhave a podcast, and I'm
grateful that God saw within hisgraciousness to redeem the
story and to use it to remindother people that they have one
life.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Makers matter.
That's beautiful.
Is there anything I haven'tasked you or?
Speaker 2 (46:05):
anything else you'd like to share or close.
I mean, my favorite car hasalready been asked today by a
previous podcast guest.
Our host favorite color wasalready asked those deep
questions from my 11 year oldhost, final.
Here's what I would say, man,like I always share my
information, like, if you'restruggling, I was there too, and
(46:25):
so if you're like John, I gotno one, you have me now.
So my website'sjohnolieryinspirescom,
johnolieryinspirescom, and onthat little website you'll see
our phone number, you'll see myemail, you'll see our social
media links, you'll see links,of course, to our work, and
you'll see a friend who I can'tbe everywhere, but I can love
(46:45):
you where I am, I can pray withyou, I can support you through,
sometimes, videos or books orwhatever you may need.
So maybe that's what I wouldsay, john, how do people stay in
touch?
And go to my website and I willsit with you, john
alirianspirescom.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Beautiful.
Well, thank you so much foryour time.
It's been just an honor, andeven our 12-minute conversation
prior to this just had me nearlyin tears.
Thank you for encouraging meand just sharing your story.
I know it's going to reallyencourage people listening.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Well, let me know when your book comes out,
because I know a friend whowants to have you on his podcast
.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Okay, sounds good, thank you.
Thank you for listening to theOnce we Dare podcast.
It is an honor to share theseencouraging stories with you.
If you enjoy the show, I wouldlove for you to tell your
friends.
Leave us a reviewer rating andsubscribe to wherever you listen
to podcasts, because this helpsothers discover the show.
You can find me on my website,zvekapopovcom.
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