Why not you?
When Anne Taylor Hartzell’s daughter left for college, she found herself in the quiet aftermath of empty nest grief. But instead of staying stuck, Anne chose to ask a life-changing question: “Why not us?” That single nudge sparked a profound journey—selling the family home of 17 years, moving to a lakeside retreat, launching a podcast, and eventually writing a powerful new book: All Who Wander: A Guide to Finding Your Path in Seasons of Change.
In this encouraging episode, Anne shares how grief can become a gateway to growth, and how getting quiet can help us hear the wisdom within. With grace, humor, and vulnerability, she breaks down her 5-step framework for navigating life’s transitions—whether you’re a midlife explorer, a new graduate, an empty nester, or someone standing at a major crossroads.
What you'll hear in this episode:
- How to reframe fear as curiosity and take your next brave step
- Why transitions feel isolating—and how to reach for connection instead
- How synchronicities show up when you start saying yes to possibility
- The difference between adventure-seeking and life-leaping
- What writing her book taught Anne about vulnerability and courage
Anne reminds us: adventure doesn’t require a passport or a perfect plan—just the willingness to listen for what’s next and say yes, even when it feels uncertain.
Grab her new book All Who Wander wherever books are sold, and explore free resources at annetaylorhartzell.com.
Tune in and be inspired to embrace the unknown—and discover the path that’s been waiting for you all along.
-Links-
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey friends, welcome to the Ones who Dared podcast,
where stories of courage areelevated.
I'm your host, becca, and everyother week you'll hear
interviews from inspiring people.
My hope is that you will leaveencouraged.
I'm so glad you're here Todayin the Ones who Dared podcast.
(00:25):
I'm thrilled to welcome AnneTaylor Hartzell, a leadership
brand strategist, travel expert,keynote speaker and host of All
who Wonder podcast.
She's also the creator of theaward-winning blog Hip Travel
Mama and has worked with some ofthe world's top brands like
Expedia, disney, microsoft,helping leaders build trust,
communicate with influence andcraft compelling content.
(00:46):
Today, she speaks, coaches andleads workshops that guide
individuals and organizationsthrough seasons of change with
clarity and courage.
Anne, welcome to the Once Withyour Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thank you so much.
It's so great to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, so we met in a writer's group, was it Like
years ago?
I?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
feel like I think it was in the middle of the
pandemic when the craving ofconnection.
I remember, yeah, we joined agroup and started talking about
our goals and what we wanted todo, and both of us had said one
of our goals was to write a book.
So and you did it.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
And congratulations.
I'm so freaking proud of you.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
You know the journey more than anybody.
There's so much that goes intoit.
Emotionally, physically, it'squite a quite a journey.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So yeah, so absolutely so what inspired you
to write this particular book.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, yeah, well, a lot of things.
One really the catalyst was ourolder daughter left for college
and I I have we still have onein the nest, but shortly to
launch and I'm an anticipator,so I like to do my homework
ahead of time.
I knew like emptiness is comingvery quickly, yeah, and it's
(02:01):
time for me to figure out whatmy next chapter looks like,
because I've seen so many momsgo into that season where
they're missing their kiddos andfeeling a little lost, and I
was definitely feeling that.
So I decided to you know, startthis podcast called All who
Wander and start interviewingpeople in my personal and
professional network and justgain insights on you know how do
(02:23):
they navigate their careers,professional network and just
gain insights on you know how dothey navigate their careers.
What are their differentchapters look like?
How do they prioritize timewith the people that they love
and do work they love?
And I started seeing a lot ofcommon themes and that's sort of
how this book came about.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, I love that.
And you described the book asan invitation to choose
adventure over fear.
And what does that practicallylook like in everyday life?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
over fear.
And what does that practicallylook like in everyday life?
It means, when faced with adecision or you want to shrink
to make yourself feel morecomfortable, that you push
yourself to choose adventureover fear.
I have been someone my wholelife.
Anxiety is sort of like myco-pilot, I think anybody who's
a hard driver, you know, who'san ambitious, anxiety is a key
driver, and so I havetraditionally not been a big
(03:11):
risk taker.
But the people that Iinterviewed on the podcast, who
were either entrepreneurs or hada nudge for something that was
in their heart they want to docreatively, the one thing that
they did was take calculatedrisks, and I wanted to do that
with this book and to share thatwith others.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
And many people feel stuck in between of no longer
who they are, but yet not whothey want to be.
What wisdom would you offer forpeople who are in the in
between season?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, I mean we're.
We all have those periods oflife where we're in the in
between season.
I think transitions areincredibly hard.
You know, even transitioningfrom Sunday to Monday, for me
it's really hard.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, let's get real about that.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
So I have always been someone that's had a hard time
with transition, but I also, youknow, I think when you are in
that season, you need to sitwith it for a little while and
and and be okay with it.
I had a season where it was afew years where, after you know,
my older daughter left forcollege.
I was like, all right, well,what am I going to do?
And finding my way back tomyself and really doing a lot of
(04:14):
self-reflection, you know, notashamed to admit therapy as well
to say how do I work through myfeelings about this so I don't
impact my family, right?
Yeah, each kind of process dida little bit different.
We're super close as a familyand then, when it's time to move
, listen to those quiet nudgesand I talk about that.
(04:35):
You know, I've heard otherpeople talk about whispers,
right, it's sort of these thingsin your heart when you get
quiet and you kind of feel thatnudge and I know you with your
book and your grandma, likethere's, there's just this thing
you can't explain, right, thatkeeps calling you like you're on
a run and you're like, oh, youknow, there's that thing again.
(04:55):
I should go and try that thingor talk to that person and when
we get quiet during thoseperiods of transition where we
feel lost, it's where we canfind our way back to our voice.
And it's really hard right now,with all the noise in the world
and you know, scrolling socialmedia it's super hard.
But getting quiet is the firststep really in listening and
finding your way back toyourself.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, that's such a good point because a lot of
times we're just so in a rush.
We live in such a fast pacedworld where you know it's go, go
.
We're just so in a rush.
We live in such a fast pacedworld where you know it's go, go
, go, it's the next thing, thenext obligation or the next
thing to knock off your to-dolist.
If you're an entrepreneur,that's like a whole other level
of you know having thatchallenge to navigate so many.
You know you're juggling somany balls and I love that you
(05:40):
said to take the time to sitwith what you're feeling, to
understand that and if you needto take that extra step, whether
it's therapy or talking tosomeone who's maybe been there
before and actually allowingyourself to grieve, because that
is a change, like your kids aregrowing up, they're going off
to school.
You're not with the littlesanymore.
It's a whole different, likeballgame.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, and it's not like I didn't have anything else
going on in my life.
I have a full-time, a full-timebusiness owner.
You know, I had this blog, hiptravel mama, where I got to
share my travels and travel withmy family, and it wasn't that I
didn't take time for self-careor like self-development, it was
really more it occupies being amom, occupies so much of your
(06:24):
emotional and physical space andhaving it makes you feel a
little bit restless.
When you have a little more ofthat free time, you know to
figure out oh, I really do haveto figure out what's my next
adventure.
So, yeah, I think sitting inthat space of grief for sure, I
mean it's hard to say it isreally the feeling of grief,
right, because it's a grief ofsure I mean it's hard to say it
is really the feeling of grief,right, because it's a grief of
(06:47):
change.
And I think we all always hearfrom people oh, aren't you so
excited when the kids are outand then you get to do whatever
you want?
And yeah, it's cool to havethat extra time.
But it also like I really enjoyour family life and that season
of time and just the energy inthe house and the people.
I love my people, so it's okayto grieve that, and I encourage
(07:10):
moms who are, either if theyhave a high school graduate or
you know they're ready to be anempty nester to give yourself
that space and permission togrieve and then to explore what
you want to do next.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, that's so real.
Why do you think transitions,though so universal as most of
us can relate to, but can feelso isolating?
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Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, I'm definitely one of those people that when
things get hard, I kind ofshrink into myself.
I do not reach out to others, ohyeah, I'm like, hey, I'll see
you in a little while becauseI'm going to go over here and
like deal with this stuff andthen I'll come back and I'll be
okay.
I think it's because there's somuch unknown in transition.
Right, we don't like change, wedon't like we inherently most
(08:34):
people don't like change oruncertainty.
And then we, over the last fewyears, have been bombarded with
not only our own, just dailylife uncertainty, but like
uncertainty in the world.
And you know there's a lot ofthings changing, with AI and
people feeling insecure abouttheir jobs and how that's going
to impact them.
There's the political landscapeand you know it's tough to try
(08:59):
to find your space of groundingwhen things are so uncertain.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Hmm, yeah, that's so good.
So how do you lean into courage?
One of my favorite chaptersthat you had on here was chapter
five, and it says reframe fearas curiosity, courage to take
intentional steps forward.
And this quote I resonated somuch with TS Eliot, who says
only those who risk going toofar can possibly find out how
(09:26):
far one can go.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah for sure.
Well, you know that in all thework that you're doing with your
book right now, right, if wehad not made and I talk about
this in the book I actually geta bit vulnerable.
It's a scary vulnerable thingto like put your own journey out
there, but I felt like whoknows who you are, anne, and so
you need to be able to share alittle bit more why you know
(09:48):
you're qualified to write thisbook.
And then I wanted to also haveit be relatable for people to
realize that we all actuallyhave our own you know stories
and journeys and the freeframing fears.
Curiosity definitely resonateswith me because I it's.
It's the only path forward whenyou are sitting in uncertainty.
(10:10):
And so when I startedinterviewing my All who Wander
podcast guests, a lot of themwere, you know, or had much
higher risk thresholds than Idid, and I thought what can I
learn from them?
And, yeah, I think that'sreally important to have the
courage to maybe step outsideyour comfort zone a little bit,
but to give yourself permissionlike you don't have to, you know
, go down river rafts of, youknow the Olmo river, which I
(10:34):
talked about with Richard Bang,like talking to him, you know,
amazing right Like reframingfear is curiosity.
There are just some people whoare wired without fear Like they
don't have that.
They don't have that bug, butif you do, it's okay.
Like taking a calculated riskmight be calling a friend or
asking a mentor for advice.
It really is deeply personaland that's why I talk about how
(10:56):
choosing adventure is deeplypersonal, because we all have
our own risk thresholds that wenavigate and it's okay wherever
you are.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah, well, and what I love is that you said that
you're someone who is not reallya risk taker, and here you are
writing a book about all whowonder and really just
challenging people to go ontheir adventures and really lean
into courage, lean into takingthe next step forward.
So I'm curious too how did youkind of develop that courage,
(11:30):
that bravery to take that step,to go forward?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I don't know it was.
I was faced with a choice I waseither going to sit in my grief
and sadness around like myfamily chapter ending, or I was
going to own it and and figureout what to do next.
And then, you know, when we seeour college students going out
on their big adventures andtrying new things and meeting
new people and connecting, likeit reminded me of my own 18, 19
(11:53):
year old self, and so every timeI would feel sad that I would
miss her.
I would think about my 18 yearold self and like what are some
of the risks I took, or what arethe ones I didn't take that I
wish I would have?
And so I really started leaninginto that and I tell this book
a story in the book.
But the turning point for us wasmy husband and I, during COVID,
we were walking the many trailsof our neighborhood over and
(12:14):
over and over again.
It was so stressful that thatwas really the only time we
could get out and sort ofstrategize around, you know,
checking in with the girls,making sure they're okay, like
figuring out, like sortingthrough the news of the day what
to do next as a family.
We started walking and westarted talking about what do we
want to do next?
I think we're ready for achange.
And we were walking this graveltrail and I remember exactly
(12:36):
where we were.
We'd walked it a million timesin the you know 17 years.
We lived in this neighborhoodand we talked about moving to
the water like that is a reallycalming place for me at the lake
.
And my husband said, ah, I just,you know, we have like one more
year left before she graduates.
I just don't think it'sfeasible.
It doesn't make sense for us tolike go find a place on the
(12:57):
lake because you know it'sreally expensive and I just
don't know how we're gonna makeit work.
And I stopped for a minute andI said, well, wait a second.
Why not?
Us Like why, why can't we makethis work?
Maybe we just need to get alittle bit more creative about
how we do it.
And then we kind of sat for alittle while on that idea and a
few months later we were atdinner again a date night, and
(13:17):
and we started talking about thelake house again and we thought
, hmm, how do we make this work?
And Tara's like I don't know, Idon't know, you know he's, he's
an investment banker, so he'svery conservative.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I'm always like what are the big things?
He's like safety, long-term.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
He's the voice of reason.
But but then I thought, well,what's the odds that some nice
family might want to lease ahouse to us for a year or so
while we have this, so we canhave this little adventure as a
family?
And the next day my mom was intown and I was sitting in the
parking lot at her optometristappointment and I just got this
(13:52):
quiet nudge.
I got this nudge like just ask,like just ask, and so I started
texting friends who lived onthe lake, and I got an immediate
response back from one of myfriends with a listing and had
gone up an hour earlier.
And so we I was like, well,maybe I'll call.
So I just happened to call andno sooner had we left the
(14:13):
parking lot.
He had left me a voicemail andI thought this is too good to be
true, what is happening?
But we went down and looked atthe house and it was literally.
I had driven by it a milliontimes on my way home from work
and I, we brought the girls backand we made a collective
decision as a family to leavethe house, that we, you know,
sold our house, that we'd beenin 17 years, anyway.
(14:35):
And the crazy part was, is ithappened to be where we were
able to choose adventure, likefor the very first time, and it
was so hard to leave thecommunity of friends.
We had loved the place whereall the memories were, in our
house, with the you know, thelittle girl's feet running
around and memories in everycorner.
But it was the moment where wechose adventure and we took a
(14:58):
big risk and the growth thatcame out of that, even though it
was really hard, was alsoprobably one of the most brave
things that we've done as afamily and sort of set us on
this path of taking morecalculated risks and choosing
adventure.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, that is phenomenal.
I mean to leave the house thatyou've been for 17 years.
That's a lot, that's a bigtransition.
Right there, A lot of peopleare scared to do that and you
guys just collectively decided,hey, why not?
Why?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
not us.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, why not?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
us Right.
Like why not us?
And that's why I encourage yourlisteners is like, why not me?
Why not us?
Why?
Well, how can, if it seems likeit's impossible, figure out how
it's possible?
Maybe it doesn't, maybe it'snot the traditional path of what
you thought to get there, butmaybe there's some creative ways
.
And always listen to that quietnudge that's in chapter one.
(15:49):
You have to get quiet andreally listen to your gut, and a
lot of us.
We haven't checked in withourselves for a really long time
because we got music on, we'relistening to podcasts, we're
running and doing things andgoing from here to there.
We don't have time to slow downand really listen to what our
inner voice is telling us, thatwhen it's call it time for
(16:10):
change and to take that risk,that's so good.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
You do have journal prompts that help people to take
intentional steps withoutneeding to have it all figured
out.
Yeah, how do you do that?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah.
So I really wanted this book tobe interactive.
I didn't want it just to beanother self-help title where
someone's telling you great,what you need to do is change
your mindset.
Right.
Okay that's super great.
We all there's lots of mindsetsto choose from.
But I wanted this to be aninteractive guide and so I've
created it, as each chapter issort of like one of those
(16:44):
adventure books right, where youget to choose which, you know
which path you go on, and at theend of each chapter it has a
theme and it has some podcastguests who are sort of
supportive of that theme andtheir stories align with the
topic, and then at the end youcan do some self reflection with
journal prompts that I'vestarted for you.
And then I also have done somefree downloadable if you don't
(17:06):
want to, if some people arepurists and they don't like to
write in their book.
So I've gotten there'sdownloads.
You can do with PDFs.
You can print them off as manytimes as you want.
My mom worked for Pell's Booksfor 25 years, which is a big
independent publisher,independent bookstore here in
Portland.
It's like a tourist attraction,basically, and so growing up,
(17:28):
you know writing in your book.
That was a bad deal.
Now, mom, my mom helped meproofread this book, so she
knows that people are going tobe writing these books.
But yeah, I just wantedeverybody to know that our paths
are our own, and so the journalprompts are for you to be able
to go through and work at yourown pace and take as much time
as you want to answer.
The journal prompts are for youto be able to go through and
work at your own pace and takeas much time as you want to
(17:51):
answer the questions that areright for you.
Because one we all think thatthere's some sort of like one
path to success.
There's not, like it's yourpersonal path, and so I wanted
these journal prompts to be away to remind you that you can
work through it at your own pace, and you can also make sure
that it's yours and not you knowa prescription, for you know
(18:11):
the right way to do things,because everybody has their own
path.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, for sure, and I love that you include a journal
prompts, because journaling hasbeen scientifically proven to
really help heal you, rewireyour brain.
It's it's a great time forreflection and, like you said, a
lot of us don't take the timeto journal or just to even
process, like and think andreflect about our lives, and
this is a perfect tool to dothat.
(18:36):
You also mentioned aboutpractical framework in your book
.
Can you walk us through thatbriefly?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah.
So of all the interviews I didfor the podcast, I started
seeing common themes and sothose common themes came into.
I wanted to provide sort of apractical five-step framework of
how to move through the book,but also to move through your
own change and what you'renavigating.
And so the five steps are toget quiet and listen to your
nudges, which we've talked about.
(19:02):
That is about getting outsideyour comfort zone, about
aligning with your core valuesand reframing fears, curiosity,
and then building your adventurecrew.
And so the five steps Iliterally used to write this
book and to make some personalchanges.
I'm not going to spoil theepilogue, but we made another
(19:23):
big adventure change that you'llhave to wait till the end of
the book to find out, but thosefive steps are really your
guideposts for navigating change.
And listen, I can tell you thatthere were so many times in
writing this book where I had somuch self-doubt roadblocks,
detours, all the things that wehave when we wander that I just
(19:44):
would go back to these fivesteps and say, okay, can I um,
like, lean into thesynchronicities in my life, like
, where, where are thingsshowing up for me?
Where are people showing up?
Um, that's um, you know part ofthe journey yeah, and that's so
good.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
I mean, we are human and so we can all relate to that
.
Even when you are taking thatbig leap forward or you're
finally decided to have thecourage to take the next step,
you are going to have, you know,some of these thoughts like who
am I to do this?
Yeah, you know, am I qualified,you know, to do what I'm doing?
You know, even on the podcastright now, I mean, I don't, I'm
(20:19):
just doing it, I just started.
And here we are, you know likethree years later.
So but at the same time, I thinkfor the listeners, just know
that it's normal, like if youstepped into something new and
you having the imposter syndromeand feeling like who the heck
am I to do this?
Like no one's going to listen,no one's going to care about
what I have to say or whateverit is that you're doing.
(20:39):
Just know that's a naturalthing that comes up in all of us
because when you do somethingnew, you're going to experience
that and just keep beingconsistent, keep going for it.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, michelle Himmelberg, one of my podcast
guests.
She was a former director of PRfor Disney and then was a huge.
Her story is incredible, Likewhat she was able to do with
sports journalism in the lateseventies.
So definitely want you guys toread her story.
But you know she just talksabout you know, finding your
champions and keep going Rightand and knowing that you you
(21:13):
have everything you need to moveforward and everybody faces
sort of those, those feelings.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, I love that.
You have everything within youto move forward.
That's yeah, absolutely yeah.
What advice would you givesomeone in midlife wondering if
it's too late to pivot?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I can see.
I am literally proof.
I had I, we had some bigpersonal changes, launched a
book and turned 50 all in thislast year.
So it was a lot to process,process and my nervous system is
still sort of catching up.
So once I finished this book,it was like what just happened
(21:52):
my poor family, oh gosh, no, Imean, and I struggle.
You know, midlife, I feel like,is getting a little bit of a
renaissance right now, likethere's so many wonderful books
on menopause and all the thingsthat women are going through and
there's, you know, a lot ofawareness around this midlife
(22:13):
stage, which I think is reallywonderful right now, because I
feel like so many generations,and even until a few years ago,
felt like we kind of were like,okay, here we are, like what,
what do we do now?
And like, oh, you have all thisfreedom.
But you also feel, you know,there's these feelings of
feeling a little bit invisible,a little bit different than than
(22:35):
when you were younger and yourkids are probably have left the
nest or soon to leave the nest.
It's a time of a lot ofemotional, physical, hormonal
change for women especially, andso, yeah, I would say that it's
never too late, and many of thestories in my book talk about
(22:58):
people who, at midlife, made apivot and it was one of their
best pivots yet.
So I'm not going to be here andsay, oh wow, it's amazingly
magical and all of a suddenyou're going to have all this
energy to do all these things.
But in time, if you keep movingforward, taking that next step
and exploring what you'reinterested in, there's always
(23:20):
room for a new chapter, andmidlife is definitely one of
those.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah.
What about for the new grads orpeople who are making career
changes?
What's one mindset shift thatthey need as they step into the
unknown?
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Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, you don't have to have it all figured out
before you start and I thinkthat resonates as an author,
right, but it also I have acollege student.
I have many friends who havecollege students that are
graduating this year and they'reso anxious about getting the
right job, finding the perfectjob.
I, when I was that age, I alsofelt all that imposter syndrome
(24:34):
and like how will my skillstransfer?
You know, I even chose a jobthat maybe wasn't the right fit
for me right away, and I think alot of students right now or if
you're looking at a season ofchange in your career, it's OK
to just take that next step andwhere you start is not where you
have to finish.
Right, like we all kind of havewandering paths, and that's
(24:56):
what I learned from all myguests is they started out doing
one thing and they ended updoing something completely
different, and that's totallyacceptable.
I just feel like there's so muchpressure right now on new grads
and on younger folks to have itall figured out even before
they apply for college.
Right, the whole collegeprocess of well, what's your
major?
I mean I didn't know what mymajor?
(25:17):
I mean I kind of had adirection myself, but it was not
the norm in terms of college issupposed to be a place where
you explore and find your peopleand find what you're passionate
about, and then your first jobsare for doing that too and just
applying.
You know, adulting in real life.
And then, when you're in acareer, maybe a career season
comes to an end and you want,are you ready for a new chapter?
(25:38):
Or you maybe went down a wrongroad, that isn't the road for
you, and so, making that pivot,it's never too late to take that
next step.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, and, fyi, most of us still don't have it
figured out.
We still don't know everythingabout everything, so we're still
figuring out, making changes,and figuring it out as we go,
which brings me to my nextquestion of what role does
curiosity play in helping us tochart a new course?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Well, just like when we travel, right, curiosity is
front and center when we goexplore a new destination.
We are open to new experiences,we like to wander down side
streets, we things don't go asplanned, we are naturally
curious and, you know, curiosityis something that's so
(26:26):
important to have in everydaylife too.
And I think we get back homeand we like, oh, I, you know
being curious, but I don't havetime for that, right, I don't
have time to be curious.
But then it feeds our soul,right, and it should be
something that we explore andincorporate every day into our
life.
You know, we talk about play,right, play in our life when
(26:46):
we're young kids and we havethis natural curiosity for the
world and I think we thinksometimes well, I'm an adult now
and I have responsibilities andbeing curious about things is
not in the cards for me.
I have to be practical, but ourcreative spirits sort of slowly
die if we don't, you know, sortof foster our natural curiosity
(27:07):
that we were born with.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
So yeah, that's good.
I love Bob Goff as an exampleof this.
He's like the guy whimsy andbig, you know, moves, and big
dreams and ideation and justlike just going for it, just try
new things.
You know, some might land andsome might not.
But we have to not lose oursense of wonder, because if we
do, it's like, well, what are wedoing here If we're just being,
(27:30):
you know, just all serious, andlife isn't linear, so let's
just like explore and actuallyenjoy it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, I think a lot of us are afraid to fail and we
have to feel like we have it allfigured out because we don't
want to fall on our face.
But curiosity is, you knowwhere our hearts get full and
where we explore new things thatmaybe we had no idea we were
interested in.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
So yeah, so in the process of writing your book I'm
going to dig a little bitdeeper here Was there a chapter
that was really hard for you towrite, or something that really
kind of unraveled you orimpacted you in a way that you
didn't perhaps expect?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Well hard to write.
The motherhood chapter,ironically, was the hardest
chapter for me, chapter four, infact, when I got the physical
book in my hands I did one readthrough again just for typos,
and I was checking foreverything and I had this like
(28:31):
overwhelming, like anxiety in mygut, which is so weird.
But it tells the story of whenwe dropped my daughter off at
college and the feeling I had, afeeling lost and not sure how I
was going to be strong andencouraging for her.
At the same time feeling allthis grief and change.
And that chapter was hardbecause I really wanted to
articulate to moms, wherever youare in the journey, whether
(28:54):
you're just a new parent orwhether you're, you know, in the
middle of it and you're runningaround and you're totally your
hair's on fire and you're goingto all the soccer games and
you're crazy or you're it'squiet at your house that we moms
are like wired for adventurewhen we they hand us these
little babies and they go, hereyou go.
We were like, what do we do?
(29:16):
And one thing we know is thatthings don't go as planned, like
in that that can be certain,right, and there's unexpected
things that come up and but thatwe have these unreal
expectations about gettingeverything right and so much
pressure and judgment to beperfect and to raise perfect
(29:38):
kids and, to, you know, do allthe things and make them
successful and launch them, butalso have some good quality
family time.
All at the same time.
It's maddening.
So I think that's the hardestchapter for me to write because
I really wanted to dedicate thatchapter to, you know, the moms
reading this book, to let themknow that they're not alone and
that showing up every day and ismaybe choosing adventure isn't
(29:59):
doing a big leap like starting acompany or a podcast or writing
a book.
Maybe choosing adventure isgetting up every day and you
know having time for yourself tothink.
That's quiet.
Or choosing adventure is, youknow, connecting with friends
and making you know developinggood community around you, which
Kavita Varma White talks about.
So I think that was the hardestchapter for me to write, but
(30:22):
also the most important.
I think that's probably why.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, I mean, and that's so real, like as mothers
specifically, I think there's somuch pressure, I know, for me.
I have two boys and they'reolder now and I'm like, oh, I
should have done thisdifferently.
And if I only done that, andyou know, I failed in this
department.
And then it's like I waslistening to this podcast I
think it was on site, it waslike a therapy podcast, but
(30:48):
there was a girl who was talkingabout how she had the ideal
family and everything, and yetthere was still this one thing
and I'm like, really no one canget it right, like if this chick
who had this ideal family feltthe need for perfection because
of X that her parents did.
It's like none of us are goingto be perfect, so just breathe,
like you know, and and it's,it's fine, like we're not going
(31:11):
to have it all together and ourkids will be all right at the
end of the day, somehow.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Just like I think we need to support each other.
I think that's a wonderfulthing about what I've seen a lot
with this, like menopause andmidlife and women, as I feel
like there's this new chapter ofwomen saying, hey, yeah, me too
, right, like I feel, uh, I feelthat same way and and it's okay
for you to feel that way Um, wedon't we're our harshest
(31:36):
critics, and oftentimes otherwomen are, are, you know, are
not as supportive.
So we need to support eachother.
Uh, because we're all kind ofnavigating ourselves, whether or
not we're, you know, are not assupportive.
So we need to support eachother Because we're all kind of
navigating ourselves, whether ornot we're, you know, sharing it
with others.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, if you could leave ourlisteners with one simple
practice to begin their nextchapter courageously, what would
that be?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Oh gosh choose adventure and like and define
what adventure is for you andtake that next step and keep
being consistent and keep askingfor help and uh, and getting
quiet and listening to thosequiet nudges.
And one thing we haven't talkedabout is the synchronicity.
So the I talked about the lakehouse story, about how just the
(32:19):
that listing just happened tocome up.
Well, I've had that since thattime.
I have been so aware of littlesynchronicities happening in my
life, like someone reaching outthe right time.
I'm in the grocery store and asong comes on.
It means something to me andI'm feeling some way.
When you start paying attentionto the universe, god or
(32:42):
whatever your belief system is,starts to show you the right
path.
And so I would say, lean intothat and start getting quiet so
you can hear, you know and payattention to what's going on.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah Well, fill in a blank to the sentence.
The one thing I wish morepeople knew about choosing
adventure is Adventure is foreveryone.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Woo, I love that how you define it.
It's how you define it.
Adventure is for everyone.
It's just how you define it.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, that's so good.
Yeah, because, like you said,it may not be, you know, booking
that trip to Italy.
It might be exploring your town, or it might be calling your
girlfriend and going out anddoing something together, or
just creating the community,like you said.
What's the next adventure?
Calling you right now?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
This book and what I want to get this in the hands is
as many people as possible whoare feeling lost and want to
navigate their way through.
Change, like this is really.
I know one of your earlierpodcast guests talked about
purpose right and how we allhave a person the 103 year old.
I listened to a part of thatpodcast where she talked about
living with purpose and thatevery day she gets up and she's
(33:57):
sewing so she can help.
Yeah, I believe that I.
This book is part of my purposeand I really want to share so
other people don't feel alone.
So I'm excited to see where itgoes and it's also completely
terrifying and that's why I justlean into my choose adventure,
right, just okay, I'm completelyterrified.
(34:19):
What is going to happen nextwith this book?
But I feel called to do it, andI'm called to do it and I'm
going to choose adventure andsee where it goes yeah, and,
like you said, it was somethingthat you couldn't kind of just
ignore.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Right, when you have that nudge that keeps going and
going, you're like, all right,I'm just gonna lean into it and
go for it yeah, yeah, I had that.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
You know that story, but I tell it in the book.
I had this idea for all whowander, like it's a you know,
it's a very popular quote, right, all who wander are not lost.
And I just woke up one day.
I literally like woke up and Iwas like all who wander that's
the name of my book.
But I had no idea what wasgoing to go inside the book.
I was like, okay, god, what,like?
(35:05):
What is?
Is the what is all?
Who wonder?
And how do I put it on a page?
And it's amazing how taking thatnext step and that next step
and having the next podcast anddoing the next thing and
researching came to be the pagesof this book.
And I'm I've never been moreproud of a product that I
literally put all my heart andsoul into.
And it will be a book forsomeone.
It won't be for everyone.
My friend reminded me that atdinner a couple nights ago,
(35:27):
because when you're on the edgeof something new, right, you
don't know, but I hope that itwill help, you know, someone
find their way out of feelinglost or stuck.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah, and I'm so proud of you for just going the
extra mile, getting it out there.
I mean, you are just oneincredible human being.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Thank you so much.
Well it is.
It takes a village.
Thank you so much forsupporting me and this book and
being able to have me on to tellmy story and to share this
book's message and heart withthe world.
And you're doing great work,amazing work, with your podcast.
I'm so excited to to read yourbook.
I know you've worked so hard onit, so I will be there to
(36:07):
support you 100% on that.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
So oh, thank you, ann .
Well, I do want to ask you thethree questions that I normally
ask.
Which is what is the bravestthing that Ann has done?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
write this book and and include my personal story
feels very vulnerable.
I now know what artists, uh,filmmakers, uh, musical artists
I know how they feel that youput yourself out there for
people to judge and, uh, it'scompletely terrifying.
So I would say I mean, beyondhaving my kids and, and you know
(36:38):
, and living daily life and thethings about I value most, for
sure, writing this book has beenone of the most recent brave
things that I've done.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, and what are three pivotal books or two
pivotal books that you read?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, so Alchemist by Paul Coel I always get his name
wrong, but anyway, theAlchemist, which is all about
your purpose, and it's atimeless book that follows
Santiago as he goes to look forgold at the pyramids and what he
discovers is that his purposewas not to find the gold, but
(37:14):
all of the things that happenedalong the way, paying attention
to his inner wisdom and guidinghim, and the synchronicities
that happened when he was on hispath, which is resonates deeply
with me.
And the message of this book andthen most recently I have to I
mean Mel Robbins is let thembook was so crazy good, Like
she's really I as a model forhow I want to build my business.
(37:39):
She's been so inspiring.
It's such a simple concept andI love what she does is she
breaks down very complicatedhuman needs, emotions and
delivers them in a verypractical, personal way that
people resonate with.
I actually was able to go seeher at a book signing and she's
(38:00):
just more electric in person andI think there were 800, mostly
women about our age, likeoutstanding in the rain, waiting
to just connect with her, andso, anyway, that it's a great
book.
I highly recommend it.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I love that, and is there any piece of advice?
That was the best piece ofadvice that someone gave you.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yes, so I talked about Michelle Himmelberg, so
she.
The quote in the book is youhave to look behind you, the
bridge that you're buildingbehind you, with all the skills,
experience people you've met,like don't worry about what's
next, look at the bridge you'vebuilt behind you and I certainly
have leaned on my network.
I've like the skills that I'vebuilt through, you know, social
(38:46):
media, podcasting and mypersonal business like marketing
, to be able to get to thispoint.
So I believe there's so muchwisdom I've gained from all my
podcast guests.
But that definitely hasresonated with me and this
experience.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Well, and thank you so much for being on the One
Studio podcast.
Where can people find you andfind your book?
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I'm on.
The book is on Amazon for printand ebook.
There'll be an audible versionthat I'm recording this summer,
so for people who like to listento their books.
And annetaylorhartzellcom is mywebsite where there'll be free
downloadables for the bookbuyers, and you can follow me on
any social media network on athip travel mama.
(39:28):
So yeah, that's where you buyme.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Guys, go get her book .
All who wonder, a guide tofinding your path and seasons of
change.
Thank you, anne.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Thank you for listening to the ones who dare
podcast.
It is an honor to share theseencouraging stories with you.
If you enjoy the show, I wouldlove for you to tell your
friends.
Leave us a reviewer rating andsubscribe to wherever you listen
to podcasts, because this helpsothers discover the show.
You can find me on my website,speckhopoffcom.
Thank you.
Hey friends, welcome to the Ones who Dared podcast,
where stories of courage areelevated.
I'm your host, becca, and everyother week you'll hear
interviews from inspiring people.
My hope is that you will leaveencouraged.
I'm so glad you're here Todayin the Ones who Dared podcast.
(00:25):
I'm thrilled to welcome AnneTaylor Hartzell, a leadership
brand strategist, travel expert,keynote speaker and host of All
who Wonder podcast.
She's also the creator of theaward-winning blog Hip Travel
Mama and has worked with some ofthe world's top brands like
Expedia, disney, microsoft,helping leaders build trust,
communicate with influence andcraft compelling content.
(00:46):
Today, she speaks, coaches andleads workshops that guide
individuals and organizationsthrough seasons of change with
clarity and courage.
Anne, welcome to the Once Withyour Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thank you so much.
It's so great to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, so we met in a writer's group, was it Like
years ago?
I?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
feel like I think it was in the middle of the
pandemic when the craving ofconnection.
I remember, yeah, we joined agroup and started talking about
our goals and what we wanted todo, and both of us had said one
of our goals was to write a book.
So and you did it.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
And congratulations.
I'm so freaking proud of you.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
You know the journey more than anybody.
There's so much that goes intoit.
Emotionally, physically, it'squite a quite a journey.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So yeah, so absolutely so what inspired you
to write this particular book.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, yeah, well, a lot of things.
One really the catalyst was ourolder daughter left for college
and I I have we still have onein the nest, but shortly to
launch and I'm an anticipator,so I like to do my homework
ahead of time.
I knew like emptiness is comingvery quickly, yeah, and it's
(02:01):
time for me to figure out whatmy next chapter looks like,
because I've seen so many momsgo into that season where
they're missing their kiddos andfeeling a little lost, and I
was definitely feeling that.
So I decided to you know, startthis podcast called All who
Wander and start interviewingpeople in my personal and
professional network and justgain insights on you know how do
(02:23):
they navigate their careers,professional network and just
gain insights on you know how dothey navigate their careers.
What are their differentchapters look like?
How do they prioritize timewith the people that they love
and do work they love?
And I started seeing a lot ofcommon themes and that's sort of
how this book came about.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, I love that.
And you described the book asan invitation to choose
adventure over fear.
And what does that practicallylook like in everyday life?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
over fear.
And what does that practicallylook like in everyday life?
It means, when faced with adecision or you want to shrink
to make yourself feel morecomfortable, that you push
yourself to choose adventureover fear.
I have been someone my wholelife.
Anxiety is sort of like myco-pilot, I think anybody who's
a hard driver, you know, who'san ambitious, anxiety is a key
driver, and so I havetraditionally not been a big
(03:11):
risk taker.
But the people that Iinterviewed on the podcast, who
were either entrepreneurs or hada nudge for something that was
in their heart they want to docreatively, the one thing that
they did was take calculatedrisks, and I wanted to do that
with this book and to share thatwith others.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
And many people feel stuck in between of no longer
who they are, but yet not whothey want to be.
What wisdom would you offer forpeople who are in the in
between season?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, I mean we're.
We all have those periods oflife where we're in the in
between season.
I think transitions areincredibly hard.
You know, even transitioningfrom Sunday to Monday, for me
it's really hard.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, let's get real about that.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
So I have always been someone that's had a hard time
with transition, but I also, youknow, I think when you are in
that season, you need to sitwith it for a little while and
and and be okay with it.
I had a season where it was afew years where, after you know,
my older daughter left forcollege.
I was like, all right, well,what am I going to do?
And finding my way back tomyself and really doing a lot of
(04:14):
self-reflection, you know, notashamed to admit therapy as well
to say how do I work through myfeelings about this so I don't
impact my family, right?
Yeah, each kind of process dida little bit different.
We're super close as a familyand then, when it's time to move
, listen to those quiet nudgesand I talk about that.
(04:35):
You know, I've heard otherpeople talk about whispers,
right, it's sort of these thingsin your heart when you get
quiet and you kind of feel thatnudge and I know you with your
book and your grandma, likethere's, there's just this thing
you can't explain, right, thatkeeps calling you like you're on
a run and you're like, oh, youknow, there's that thing again.
(04:55):
I should go and try that thingor talk to that person and when
we get quiet during thoseperiods of transition where we
feel lost, it's where we canfind our way back to our voice.
And it's really hard right now,with all the noise in the world
and you know, scrolling socialmedia it's super hard.
But getting quiet is the firststep really in listening and
finding your way back toyourself.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, that's such a good point because a lot of
times we're just so in a rush.
We live in such a fast pacedworld where you know it's go, go
.
We're just so in a rush.
We live in such a fast pacedworld where you know it's go, go
, go, it's the next thing, thenext obligation or the next
thing to knock off your to-dolist.
If you're an entrepreneur,that's like a whole other level
of you know having thatchallenge to navigate so many.
You know you're juggling somany balls and I love that you
(05:40):
said to take the time to sitwith what you're feeling, to
understand that and if you needto take that extra step, whether
it's therapy or talking tosomeone who's maybe been there
before and actually allowingyourself to grieve, because that
is a change, like your kids aregrowing up, they're going off
to school.
You're not with the littlesanymore.
It's a whole different, likeballgame.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, and it's not like I didn't have anything else
going on in my life.
I have a full-time, a full-timebusiness owner.
You know, I had this blog, hiptravel mama, where I got to
share my travels and travel withmy family, and it wasn't that I
didn't take time for self-careor like self-development, it was
really more it occupies being amom, occupies so much of your
(06:24):
emotional and physical space andhaving it makes you feel a
little bit restless.
When you have a little more ofthat free time, you know to
figure out oh, I really do haveto figure out what's my next
adventure.
So, yeah, I think sitting inthat space of grief for sure, I
mean it's hard to say it isreally the feeling of grief,
right, because it's a grief ofsure I mean it's hard to say it
is really the feeling of grief,right, because it's a grief of
(06:47):
change.
And I think we all always hearfrom people oh, aren't you so
excited when the kids are outand then you get to do whatever
you want?
And yeah, it's cool to havethat extra time.
But it also like I really enjoyour family life and that season
of time and just the energy inthe house and the people.
I love my people, so it's okayto grieve that, and I encourage
(07:10):
moms who are, either if theyhave a high school graduate or
you know they're ready to be anempty nester to give yourself
that space and permission togrieve and then to explore what
you want to do next.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, that's so real.
Why do you think transitions,though so universal as most of
us can relate to, but can feelso isolating?
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Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, I'm definitely one of those people that when
things get hard, I kind ofshrink into myself.
I do not reach out to others, ohyeah, I'm like, hey, I'll see
you in a little while becauseI'm going to go over here and
like deal with this stuff andthen I'll come back and I'll be
okay.
I think it's because there's somuch unknown in transition.
Right, we don't like change, wedon't like we inherently most
(08:34):
people don't like change oruncertainty.
And then we, over the last fewyears, have been bombarded with
not only our own, just dailylife uncertainty, but like
uncertainty in the world.
And you know there's a lot ofthings changing, with AI and
people feeling insecure abouttheir jobs and how that's going
to impact them.
There's the political landscapeand you know it's tough to try
(08:59):
to find your space of groundingwhen things are so uncertain.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Hmm, yeah, that's so good.
So how do you lean into courage?
One of my favorite chaptersthat you had on here was chapter
five, and it says reframe fearas curiosity, courage to take
intentional steps forward.
And this quote I resonated somuch with TS Eliot, who says
only those who risk going toofar can possibly find out how
(09:26):
far one can go.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah for sure.
Well, you know that in all thework that you're doing with your
book right now, right, if wehad not made and I talk about
this in the book I actually geta bit vulnerable.
It's a scary vulnerable thingto like put your own journey out
there, but I felt like whoknows who you are, anne, and so
you need to be able to share alittle bit more why you know
(09:48):
you're qualified to write thisbook.
And then I wanted to also haveit be relatable for people to
realize that we all actuallyhave our own you know stories
and journeys and the freeframing fears.
Curiosity definitely resonateswith me because I it's.
It's the only path forward whenyou are sitting in uncertainty.
(10:10):
And so when I startedinterviewing my All who Wander
podcast guests, a lot of themwere, you know, or had much
higher risk thresholds than Idid, and I thought what can I
learn from them?
And, yeah, I think that'sreally important to have the
courage to maybe step outsideyour comfort zone a little bit,
but to give yourself permissionlike you don't have to, you know
, go down river rafts of, youknow the Olmo river, which I
(10:34):
talked about with Richard Bang,like talking to him, you know,
amazing right Like reframingfear is curiosity.
There are just some people whoare wired without fear Like they
don't have that.
They don't have that bug, butif you do, it's okay.
Like taking a calculated riskmight be calling a friend or
asking a mentor for advice.
It really is deeply personaland that's why I talk about how
(10:56):
choosing adventure is deeplypersonal, because we all have
our own risk thresholds that wenavigate and it's okay wherever
you are.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah, well, and what I love is that you said that
you're someone who is not reallya risk taker, and here you are
writing a book about all whowonder and really just
challenging people to go ontheir adventures and really lean
into courage, lean into takingthe next step forward.
So I'm curious too how did youkind of develop that courage,
(11:30):
that bravery to take that step,to go forward?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I don't know it was.
I was faced with a choice I waseither going to sit in my grief
and sadness around like myfamily chapter ending, or I was
going to own it and and figureout what to do next.
And then, you know, when we seeour college students going out
on their big adventures andtrying new things and meeting
new people and connecting, likeit reminded me of my own 18, 19
(11:53):
year old self, and so every timeI would feel sad that I would
miss her.
I would think about my 18 yearold self and like what are some
of the risks I took, or what arethe ones I didn't take that I
wish I would have?
And so I really started leaninginto that and I tell this book
a story in the book.
But the turning point for us wasmy husband and I, during COVID,
we were walking the many trailsof our neighborhood over and
(12:14):
over and over again.
It was so stressful that thatwas really the only time we
could get out and sort ofstrategize around, you know,
checking in with the girls,making sure they're okay, like
figuring out, like sortingthrough the news of the day what
to do next as a family.
We started walking and westarted talking about what do we
want to do next?
I think we're ready for achange.
And we were walking this graveltrail and I remember exactly
(12:36):
where we were.
We'd walked it a million timesin the you know 17 years.
We lived in this neighborhoodand we talked about moving to
the water like that is a reallycalming place for me at the lake
.
And my husband said, ah, I just,you know, we have like one more
year left before she graduates.
I just don't think it'sfeasible.
It doesn't make sense for us tolike go find a place on the
(12:57):
lake because you know it'sreally expensive and I just
don't know how we're gonna makeit work.
And I stopped for a minute andI said, well, wait a second.
Why not?
Us Like why, why can't we makethis work?
Maybe we just need to get alittle bit more creative about
how we do it.
And then we kind of sat for alittle while on that idea and a
few months later we were atdinner again a date night, and
(13:17):
and we started talking about thelake house again and we thought
, hmm, how do we make this work?
And Tara's like I don't know, Idon't know, you know he's, he's
an investment banker, so he'svery conservative.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I'm always like what are the big things?
He's like safety, long-term.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
He's the voice of reason.
But but then I thought, well,what's the odds that some nice
family might want to lease ahouse to us for a year or so
while we have this, so we canhave this little adventure as a
family?
And the next day my mom was intown and I was sitting in the
parking lot at her optometristappointment and I just got this
(13:52):
quiet nudge.
I got this nudge like just ask,like just ask, and so I started
texting friends who lived onthe lake, and I got an immediate
response back from one of myfriends with a listing and had
gone up an hour earlier.
And so we I was like, well,maybe I'll call.
So I just happened to call andno sooner had we left the
(14:13):
parking lot.
He had left me a voicemail andI thought this is too good to be
true, what is happening?
But we went down and looked atthe house and it was literally.
I had driven by it a milliontimes on my way home from work
and I, we brought the girls backand we made a collective
decision as a family to leavethe house, that we, you know,
sold our house, that we'd beenin 17 years, anyway.
(14:35):
And the crazy part was, is ithappened to be where we were
able to choose adventure, likefor the very first time, and it
was so hard to leave thecommunity of friends.
We had loved the place whereall the memories were, in our
house, with the you know, thelittle girl's feet running
around and memories in everycorner.
But it was the moment where wechose adventure and we took a
(14:58):
big risk and the growth thatcame out of that, even though it
was really hard, was alsoprobably one of the most brave
things that we've done as afamily and sort of set us on
this path of taking morecalculated risks and choosing
adventure.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, that is phenomenal.
I mean to leave the house thatyou've been for 17 years.
That's a lot, that's a bigtransition.
Right there, A lot of peopleare scared to do that and you
guys just collectively decided,hey, why not?
Why?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
not us.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, why not?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
us Right.
Like why not us?
And that's why I encourage yourlisteners is like, why not me?
Why not us?
Why?
Well, how can, if it seems likeit's impossible, figure out how
it's possible?
Maybe it doesn't, maybe it'snot the traditional path of what
you thought to get there, butmaybe there's some creative ways
.
And always listen to that quietnudge that's in chapter one.
(15:49):
You have to get quiet andreally listen to your gut, and a
lot of us.
We haven't checked in withourselves for a really long time
because we got music on, we'relistening to podcasts, we're
running and doing things andgoing from here to there.
We don't have time to slow downand really listen to what our
inner voice is telling us, thatwhen it's call it time for
(16:10):
change and to take that risk,that's so good.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
You do have journal prompts that help people to take
intentional steps withoutneeding to have it all figured
out.
Yeah, how do you do that?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah.
So I really wanted this book tobe interactive.
I didn't want it just to beanother self-help title where
someone's telling you great,what you need to do is change
your mindset.
Right.
Okay that's super great.
We all there's lots of mindsetsto choose from.
But I wanted this to be aninteractive guide and so I've
created it, as each chapter issort of like one of those
(16:44):
adventure books right, where youget to choose which, you know
which path you go on, and at theend of each chapter it has a
theme and it has some podcastguests who are sort of
supportive of that theme andtheir stories align with the
topic, and then at the end youcan do some self reflection with
journal prompts that I'vestarted for you.
And then I also have done somefree downloadable if you don't
(17:06):
want to, if some people arepurists and they don't like to
write in their book.
So I've gotten there'sdownloads.
You can do with PDFs.
You can print them off as manytimes as you want.
My mom worked for Pell's Booksfor 25 years, which is a big
independent publisher,independent bookstore here in
Portland.
It's like a tourist attraction,basically, and so growing up,
(17:28):
you know writing in your book.
That was a bad deal.
Now, mom, my mom helped meproofread this book, so she
knows that people are going tobe writing these books.
But yeah, I just wantedeverybody to know that our paths
are our own, and so the journalprompts are for you to be able
to go through and work at yourown pace and take as much time
as you want to answer.
The journal prompts are for youto be able to go through and
work at your own pace and takeas much time as you want to
(17:51):
answer the questions that areright for you.
Because one we all think thatthere's some sort of like one
path to success.
There's not, like it's yourpersonal path, and so I wanted
these journal prompts to be away to remind you that you can
work through it at your own pace, and you can also make sure
that it's yours and not you knowa prescription, for you know
(18:11):
the right way to do things,because everybody has their own
path.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, for sure, and I love that you include a journal
prompts, because journaling hasbeen scientifically proven to
really help heal you, rewireyour brain.
It's it's a great time forreflection and, like you said, a
lot of us don't take the timeto journal or just to even
process, like and think andreflect about our lives, and
this is a perfect tool to dothat.
(18:36):
You also mentioned aboutpractical framework in your book
.
Can you walk us through thatbriefly?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah.
So of all the interviews I didfor the podcast, I started
seeing common themes and sothose common themes came into.
I wanted to provide sort of apractical five-step framework of
how to move through the book,but also to move through your
own change and what you'renavigating.
And so the five steps are toget quiet and listen to your
nudges, which we've talked about.
(19:02):
That is about getting outsideyour comfort zone, about
aligning with your core valuesand reframing fears, curiosity,
and then building your adventurecrew.
And so the five steps Iliterally used to write this
book and to make some personalchanges.
I'm not going to spoil theepilogue, but we made another
(19:23):
big adventure change that you'llhave to wait till the end of
the book to find out, but thosefive steps are really your
guideposts for navigating change.
And listen, I can tell you thatthere were so many times in
writing this book where I had somuch self-doubt roadblocks,
detours, all the things that wehave when we wander that I just
(19:44):
would go back to these fivesteps and say, okay, can I um,
like, lean into thesynchronicities in my life, like
, where, where are thingsshowing up for me?
Where are people showing up?
Um, that's um, you know part ofthe journey yeah, and that's so
good.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
I mean, we are human and so we can all relate to that
.
Even when you are taking thatbig leap forward or you're
finally decided to have thecourage to take the next step,
you are going to have, you know,some of these thoughts like who
am I to do this?
Yeah, you know, am I qualified,you know, to do what I'm doing?
You know, even on the podcastright now, I mean, I don't, I'm
(20:19):
just doing it, I just started.
And here we are, you know likethree years later.
So but at the same time, I thinkfor the listeners, just know
that it's normal, like if youstepped into something new and
you having the imposter syndromeand feeling like who the heck
am I to do this?
Like no one's going to listen,no one's going to care about
what I have to say or whateverit is that you're doing.
(20:39):
Just know that's a naturalthing that comes up in all of us
because when you do somethingnew, you're going to experience
that and just keep beingconsistent, keep going for it.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, michelle Himmelberg, one of my podcast
guests.
She was a former director of PRfor Disney and then was a huge.
Her story is incredible, Likewhat she was able to do with
sports journalism in the lateseventies.
So definitely want you guys toread her story.
But you know she just talksabout you know, finding your
champions and keep going Rightand and knowing that you you
(21:13):
have everything you need to moveforward and everybody faces
sort of those, those feelings.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, I love that.
You have everything within youto move forward.
That's yeah, absolutely yeah.
What advice would you givesomeone in midlife wondering if
it's too late to pivot?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I can see.
I am literally proof.
I had I, we had some bigpersonal changes, launched a
book and turned 50 all in thislast year.
So it was a lot to process,process and my nervous system is
still sort of catching up.
So once I finished this book,it was like what just happened
(21:52):
my poor family, oh gosh, no, Imean, and I struggle.
You know, midlife, I feel like,is getting a little bit of a
renaissance right now, likethere's so many wonderful books
on menopause and all the thingsthat women are going through and
there's, you know, a lot ofawareness around this midlife
(22:13):
stage, which I think is reallywonderful right now, because I
feel like so many generations,and even until a few years ago,
felt like we kind of were like,okay, here we are, like what,
what do we do now?
And like, oh, you have all thisfreedom.
But you also feel, you know,there's these feelings of
feeling a little bit invisible,a little bit different than than
(22:35):
when you were younger and yourkids are probably have left the
nest or soon to leave the nest.
It's a time of a lot ofemotional, physical, hormonal
change for women especially, andso, yeah, I would say that it's
never too late, and many of thestories in my book talk about
(22:58):
people who, at midlife, made apivot and it was one of their
best pivots yet.
So I'm not going to be here andsay, oh wow, it's amazingly
magical and all of a suddenyou're going to have all this
energy to do all these things.
But in time, if you keep movingforward, taking that next step
and exploring what you'reinterested in, there's always
(23:20):
room for a new chapter, andmidlife is definitely one of
those.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah.
What about for the new grads orpeople who are making career
changes?
What's one mindset shift thatthey need as they step into the
unknown?
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Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, you don't have to have it all figured out
before you start and I thinkthat resonates as an author,
right, but it also I have acollege student.
I have many friends who havecollege students that are
graduating this year and they'reso anxious about getting the
right job, finding the perfectjob.
I, when I was that age, I alsofelt all that imposter syndrome
(24:34):
and like how will my skillstransfer?
You know, I even chose a jobthat maybe wasn't the right fit
for me right away, and I think alot of students right now or if
you're looking at a season ofchange in your career, it's OK
to just take that next step andwhere you start is not where you
have to finish.
Right, like we all kind of havewandering paths, and that's
(24:56):
what I learned from all myguests is they started out doing
one thing and they ended updoing something completely
different, and that's totallyacceptable.
I just feel like there's so muchpressure right now on new grads
and on younger folks to have itall figured out even before
they apply for college.
Right, the whole collegeprocess of well, what's your
major?
I mean I didn't know what mymajor?
(25:17):
I mean I kind of had adirection myself, but it was not
the norm in terms of college issupposed to be a place where
you explore and find your peopleand find what you're passionate
about, and then your first jobsare for doing that too and just
applying.
You know, adulting in real life.
And then, when you're in acareer, maybe a career season
comes to an end and you want,are you ready for a new chapter?
(25:38):
Or you maybe went down a wrongroad, that isn't the road for
you, and so, making that pivot,it's never too late to take that
next step.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, and, fyi, most of us still don't have it
figured out.
We still don't know everythingabout everything, so we're still
figuring out, making changes,and figuring it out as we go,
which brings me to my nextquestion of what role does
curiosity play in helping us tochart a new course?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Well, just like when we travel, right, curiosity is
front and center when we goexplore a new destination.
We are open to new experiences,we like to wander down side
streets, we things don't go asplanned, we are naturally
curious and, you know, curiosityis something that's so
(26:26):
important to have in everydaylife too.
And I think we get back homeand we like, oh, I, you know
being curious, but I don't havetime for that, right, I don't
have time to be curious.
But then it feeds our soul,right, and it should be
something that we explore andincorporate every day into our
life.
You know, we talk about play,right, play in our life when
(26:46):
we're young kids and we havethis natural curiosity for the
world and I think we thinksometimes well, I'm an adult now
and I have responsibilities andbeing curious about things is
not in the cards for me.
I have to be practical, but ourcreative spirits sort of slowly
die if we don't, you know, sortof foster our natural curiosity
(27:07):
that we were born with.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
So yeah, that's good.
I love Bob Goff as an exampleof this.
He's like the guy whimsy andbig, you know, moves, and big
dreams and ideation and justlike just going for it, just try
new things.
You know, some might land andsome might not.
But we have to not lose oursense of wonder, because if we
do, it's like, well, what are wedoing here If we're just being,
(27:30):
you know, just all serious, andlife isn't linear, so let's
just like explore and actuallyenjoy it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, I think a lot of us are afraid to fail and we
have to feel like we have it allfigured out because we don't
want to fall on our face.
But curiosity is, you knowwhere our hearts get full and
where we explore new things thatmaybe we had no idea we were
interested in.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
So yeah, so in the process of writing your book I'm
going to dig a little bitdeeper here Was there a chapter
that was really hard for you towrite, or something that really
kind of unraveled you orimpacted you in a way that you
didn't perhaps expect?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Well hard to write.
The motherhood chapter,ironically, was the hardest
chapter for me, chapter four, infact, when I got the physical
book in my hands I did one readthrough again just for typos,
and I was checking foreverything and I had this like
(28:31):
overwhelming, like anxiety in mygut, which is so weird.
But it tells the story of whenwe dropped my daughter off at
college and the feeling I had, afeeling lost and not sure how I
was going to be strong andencouraging for her.
At the same time feeling allthis grief and change.
And that chapter was hardbecause I really wanted to
articulate to moms, wherever youare in the journey, whether
(28:54):
you're just a new parent orwhether you're, you know, in the
middle of it and you're runningaround and you're totally your
hair's on fire and you're goingto all the soccer games and
you're crazy or you're it'squiet at your house that we moms
are like wired for adventurewhen we they hand us these
little babies and they go, hereyou go.
We were like, what do we do?
(29:16):
And one thing we know is thatthings don't go as planned, like
in that that can be certain,right, and there's unexpected
things that come up and but thatwe have these unreal
expectations about gettingeverything right and so much
pressure and judgment to beperfect and to raise perfect
(29:38):
kids and, to, you know, do allthe things and make them
successful and launch them, butalso have some good quality
family time.
All at the same time.
It's maddening.
So I think that's the hardestchapter for me to write because
I really wanted to dedicate thatchapter to, you know, the moms
reading this book, to let themknow that they're not alone and
that showing up every day and ismaybe choosing adventure isn't
(29:59):
doing a big leap like starting acompany or a podcast or writing
a book.
Maybe choosing adventure isgetting up every day and you
know having time for yourself tothink.
That's quiet.
Or choosing adventure is, youknow, connecting with friends
and making you know developinggood community around you, which
Kavita Varma White talks about.
So I think that was the hardestchapter for me to write, but
(30:22):
also the most important.
I think that's probably why.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, I mean, and that's so real, like as mothers
specifically, I think there's somuch pressure, I know, for me.
I have two boys and they'reolder now and I'm like, oh, I
should have done thisdifferently.
And if I only done that, andyou know, I failed in this
department.
And then it's like I waslistening to this podcast I
think it was on site, it waslike a therapy podcast, but
(30:48):
there was a girl who was talkingabout how she had the ideal
family and everything, and yetthere was still this one thing
and I'm like, really no one canget it right, like if this chick
who had this ideal family feltthe need for perfection because
of X that her parents did.
It's like none of us are goingto be perfect, so just breathe,
like you know, and and it's,it's fine, like we're not going
(31:11):
to have it all together and ourkids will be all right at the
end of the day, somehow.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Just like I think we need to support each other.
I think that's a wonderfulthing about what I've seen a lot
with this, like menopause andmidlife and women, as I feel
like there's this new chapter ofwomen saying, hey, yeah, me too
, right, like I feel, uh, I feelthat same way and and it's okay
for you to feel that way Um, wedon't we're our harshest
(31:36):
critics, and oftentimes otherwomen are, are, you know, are
not as supportive.
So we need to support eachother.
Uh, because we're all kind ofnavigating ourselves, whether or
not we're, you know, are not assupportive.
So we need to support eachother Because we're all kind of
navigating ourselves, whether ornot we're, you know, sharing it
with others.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, if you could leave ourlisteners with one simple
practice to begin their nextchapter courageously, what would
that be?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Oh gosh choose adventure and like and define
what adventure is for you andtake that next step and keep
being consistent and keep askingfor help and uh, and getting
quiet and listening to thosequiet nudges.
And one thing we haven't talkedabout is the synchronicity.
So the I talked about the lakehouse story, about how just the
(32:19):
that listing just happened tocome up.
Well, I've had that since thattime.
I have been so aware of littlesynchronicities happening in my
life, like someone reaching outthe right time.
I'm in the grocery store and asong comes on.
It means something to me andI'm feeling some way.
When you start paying attentionto the universe, god or
(32:42):
whatever your belief system is,starts to show you the right
path.
And so I would say, lean intothat and start getting quiet so
you can hear, you know and payattention to what's going on.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah Well, fill in a blank to the sentence.
The one thing I wish morepeople knew about choosing
adventure is Adventure is foreveryone.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Woo, I love that how you define it.
It's how you define it.
Adventure is for everyone.
It's just how you define it.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, that's so good.
Yeah, because, like you said,it may not be, you know, booking
that trip to Italy.
It might be exploring your town, or it might be calling your
girlfriend and going out anddoing something together, or
just creating the community,like you said.
What's the next adventure?
Calling you right now?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
This book and what I want to get this in the hands is
as many people as possible whoare feeling lost and want to
navigate their way through.
Change, like this is really.
I know one of your earlierpodcast guests talked about
purpose right and how we allhave a person the 103 year old.
I listened to a part of thatpodcast where she talked about
living with purpose and thatevery day she gets up and she's
(33:57):
sewing so she can help.
Yeah, I believe that I.
This book is part of my purposeand I really want to share so
other people don't feel alone.
So I'm excited to see where itgoes and it's also completely
terrifying and that's why I justlean into my choose adventure,
right, just okay, I'm completelyterrified.
(34:19):
What is going to happen nextwith this book?
But I feel called to do it, andI'm called to do it and I'm
going to choose adventure andsee where it goes yeah, and,
like you said, it was somethingthat you couldn't kind of just
ignore.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Right, when you have that nudge that keeps going and
going, you're like, all right,I'm just gonna lean into it and
go for it yeah, yeah, I had that.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
You know that story, but I tell it in the book.
I had this idea for all whowander, like it's a you know,
it's a very popular quote, right, all who wander are not lost.
And I just woke up one day.
I literally like woke up and Iwas like all who wander that's
the name of my book.
But I had no idea what wasgoing to go inside the book.
I was like, okay, god, what,like?
(35:05):
What is?
Is the what is all?
Who wonder?
And how do I put it on a page?
And it's amazing how taking thatnext step and that next step
and having the next podcast anddoing the next thing and
researching came to be the pagesof this book.
And I'm I've never been moreproud of a product that I
literally put all my heart andsoul into.
And it will be a book forsomeone.
It won't be for everyone.
My friend reminded me that atdinner a couple nights ago,
(35:27):
because when you're on the edgeof something new, right, you
don't know, but I hope that itwill help, you know, someone
find their way out of feelinglost or stuck.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah, and I'm so proud of you for just going the
extra mile, getting it out there.
I mean, you are just oneincredible human being.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Thank you so much.
Well it is.
It takes a village.
Thank you so much forsupporting me and this book and
being able to have me on to tellmy story and to share this
book's message and heart withthe world.
And you're doing great work,amazing work, with your podcast.
I'm so excited to to read yourbook.
I know you've worked so hard onit, so I will be there to
(36:07):
support you 100% on that.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
So oh, thank you, ann .
Well, I do want to ask you thethree questions that I normally
ask.
Which is what is the bravestthing that Ann has done?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
write this book and and include my personal story
feels very vulnerable.
I now know what artists, uh,filmmakers, uh, musical artists
I know how they feel that youput yourself out there for
people to judge and, uh, it'scompletely terrifying.
So I would say I mean, beyondhaving my kids and, and you know
(36:38):
, and living daily life and thethings about I value most, for
sure, writing this book has beenone of the most recent brave
things that I've done.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, and what are three pivotal books or two
pivotal books that you read?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, so Alchemist by Paul Coel I always get his name
wrong, but anyway, theAlchemist, which is all about
your purpose, and it's atimeless book that follows
Santiago as he goes to look forgold at the pyramids and what he
discovers is that his purposewas not to find the gold, but
(37:14):
all of the things that happenedalong the way, paying attention
to his inner wisdom and guidinghim, and the synchronicities
that happened when he was on hispath, which is resonates deeply
with me.
And the message of this book andthen most recently I have to I
mean Mel Robbins is let thembook was so crazy good, Like
she's really I as a model forhow I want to build my business.
(37:39):
She's been so inspiring.
It's such a simple concept andI love what she does is she
breaks down very complicatedhuman needs, emotions and
delivers them in a verypractical, personal way that
people resonate with.
I actually was able to go seeher at a book signing and she's
(38:00):
just more electric in person andI think there were 800, mostly
women about our age, likeoutstanding in the rain, waiting
to just connect with her, andso, anyway, that it's a great
book.
I highly recommend it.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I love that, and is there any piece of advice?
That was the best piece ofadvice that someone gave you.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yes, so I talked about Michelle Himmelberg, so
she.
The quote in the book is youhave to look behind you, the
bridge that you're buildingbehind you, with all the skills,
experience people you've met,like don't worry about what's
next, look at the bridge you'vebuilt behind you and I certainly
have leaned on my network.
I've like the skills that I'vebuilt through, you know, social
(38:46):
media, podcasting and mypersonal business like marketing
, to be able to get to thispoint.
So I believe there's so muchwisdom I've gained from all my
podcast guests.
But that definitely hasresonated with me and this
experience.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Well, and thank you so much for being on the One
Studio podcast.
Where can people find you andfind your book?
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I'm on.
The book is on Amazon for printand ebook.
There'll be an audible versionthat I'm recording this summer,
so for people who like to listento their books.
And annetaylorhartzellcom is mywebsite where there'll be free
downloadables for the bookbuyers, and you can follow me on
any social media network on athip travel mama.
(39:28):
So yeah, that's where you buyme.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Guys, go get her book .
All who wonder, a guide tofinding your path and seasons of
change.
Thank you, anne.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Thank you for listening to the ones who dare
podcast.
It is an honor to share theseencouraging stories with you.
If you enjoy the show, I wouldlove for you to tell your
friends.
Leave us a reviewer rating andsubscribe to wherever you listen
to podcasts, because this helpsothers discover the show.
You can find me on my website,speckhopoffcom.
Thank you.
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