February 25, 2025 • 46 mins
Chris Janssen, MA, BCC, is the author of "Grace Yourself" and a performance and mindset coach. With over 25 years of experience, she has guided athletes, entrepreneurs, and creatives in achieving their goals. Trained with Tony Robbins, Chris helps high-achieving perfectionists manage performance pressure and overcome self-sabotage through her Living All In methods.
She emphasizes the importance of reframing personal narratives, particularly in addiction recovery, and highlights the roles of self-compassion and community support. Key topics include:
- The impact of old narratives on self-identity
- The need for community support
- Differences between shame and guilt in recovery
- Strategies for reframing life narratives
- The journey to self-acceptance and worthiness
https://www.chrisjanssencoaching.com/
-Links-
https://www.svetkapopov.com/
https://www.instagram.com/svetka_popov/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's important to know, though and this is what,
as a coach, I work with clientson is that just because now we
have a light bulb moment likethat, we also have years of the
old narrative.
We've made that old narrative apattern in our brain ourself.
(00:26):
I have clients write it down.
What is the new story you aregoing to attach to the fact in
your life Like the fact in mylife is I was addicted to
alcohol.
The story was I'm a monsterbecause of that.
The story shifted to I'mdeserving of recovery and
community because of that.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hey friends, welcome to the Ones who Dared podcast,
where stories of courage areelevated.
I'm your host, becca, and everyother week you'll hear
interviews from inspiring people.
My hope is that you will leaveencouraged.
I'm so glad you're here, chrisJansen, welcome to the Ones who
(01:05):
Dare podcast.
It's an honor to have you ontoday.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
It's an honor to be on Speca.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, I'm really excited to dig into your book
your latest book called GraceYourself how to Show Up for the
Sober Life you Want and you area leading results coach and
performance best-sellingaward-winning author, and I love
that.
You are not only aboard-certified coach, but you
also have a master's degree incounseling psychology over 25
(01:33):
years of experience and you helppeople achieve their goals,
navigate through some of theirpressure of performance,
overcoming self-sabotage andreally rewrite our narratives,
because a lot of us are tellingourselves stories that are maybe
not true and if we reframe that, then we'll be able to live our
life in a much better way.
So I'm really excited to haveyou on here and if you could
(01:56):
just tell me a little bit abouthow did you get into being a
life coach or high achievingperformance coach?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Well, I got my master's in counseling
psychology right after college,so that was a while ago and at
the time we didn't have coaching.
You know, it's like abasketball coach, a baseball
coach we didn't have lifecoaches.
And so when that came on thescene later in my life, my kids
were I already had kids by thattime and was being a mom and I
(02:29):
got really excited and went backto school and got my coaching
certification and my boardcertified coach.
And because really coaching isabout what works, not what
hasn't worked in the past, and I, just having come from the
therapy and counseling world, Ithink we have a great need for
(02:50):
it.
I love it.
I refer clients to therapistsoften.
I just wanted to work withpeople from where they're at now
and how to move forward fromwhere we're at.
So that's why coaching wasexciting for me at that season
of my life.
And then I wrote a book for myclients called Living All In.
That book came out in 2022.
(03:12):
And I just wanted all myfavorite coaching tools written
down for clients.
It's been a super great tool tohelp with working with clients.
And then I got the writing bugand wanted to write another one.
So I have another one thatactually launches the date of
this pod, like of this recording.
February 18th is launch day, soI'm really excited about that
(03:35):
and that's great.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Congratulations on that that is an exciting day.
We're launch day, thank you,and this book.
You use yourself as an examplein your journey of sobriety and
what I love about your story isthat, um, essentially you were
the person that wasn't what wemay think of an alcoholic right.
(03:57):
I think some of us have thisperception, and you also said
that was your perception too islike someone who struggles with
addiction to alcohol is someonewho is, you know, walking around
with a paper bag.
They're under the bridge.
It's like a whole extremeversion.
Meanwhile you were a mom ofthree kids, just really a
perfectionism.
(04:17):
Your life looked perfect fromthe outside and even when you
would brought up your concernyourself with your addiction,
you would have people who wouldminimize that and say, well, you
don't really have a problem,it's not, you know, maybe you
should just get coaching, or youshould do this and that, and so
it's interesting, because oursociety is so surrounded by
(04:41):
alcohol.
Our movies, everything.
There's a celebration portionyou toast to alcohol.
There is, it's just part of ourculture, so much so that a lot
of us who struggle can gounnoticed, and even when we are
expressing like, hey, I thinkmaybe I have a problem, it's
like no, you're not that bad,you're not out there doing this
(05:02):
and that You're not getting aDUI You're not harming people.
So could you just kind of gointo your experience with that,
and how did you come to strugglewith it before you discovered
it was a problem?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, that is so.
Thanks for bringing that up,because that's so important for
listeners to know that.
There's not a formula.
I don't know if it's still outthere, but we used to have this
take these 20 questions and theytell if you're alcoholic or not
.
That's not, don't do that Likethat's we don't.
There's not a one size fits all, and so if people are feeling
(05:38):
like and it doesn't have to bealcohol if there's something in
their life that's a distraction,ahold, that's keeping them from
getting where they want to go,that's worth questioning.
If that's keeping them stuckand they're not free, that's
worth taking a look at.
And the book Grace Yourself isfull of questions to help us
(06:01):
decide what that is.
Is it a stronghold, is it not?
Is it just something that'skind of annoying?
And is the cost of not givingit up going to be greater of the
cost of gritting it out andgiving it up to move forward?
So for me it's interesting,like you said, because I was
(06:27):
like on the outside, I, my lifeis very it still is looks very
functioning and put together.
And I should say too, I feltfunctioning and put together.
It's not like I was just.
I mean, I had self-loathing, Ihad negative self-talk.
I had this struggle, thestruggle being that I couldn't
(06:50):
drink alcohol like people aroundme could, and this is back in
2007 and before I got sober in2007.
So before that, culturally itwas really different than it is
now.
We didn't have mocktails andalcohol-free drinks.
People weren't being sober as ahealth trend.
It was just if you couldn'tdrink alcohol like the next
(07:14):
person, I believed something waswrong with me, that it meant I
had a problem and I took that tomean I'm a bad person.
I have a moral problem and Itook that to mean I'm a bad
person.
I have a moral problem and Ijust it sounds silly to think
that now, but I just didn'tunderstand it.
I didn't understand that it wasa physical addiction.
(07:36):
Alcohol's a, you know, anaddictive, toxic substance, and
some people can drink it and itdoesn't ignite this obsession
for more and some people cannot,and so I really looked at
myself as this weak-willedperson when in reality, I wasn't
(07:57):
the problem.
Alcohol was like alcohol and medon't mesh like like some other
people can moderate it.
I could not, and there's a lotof other people like me, and so
that was really confusing to me,because I did feel high,
functioning, and I knew I was agood mom, I knew I had a good
(08:19):
marriage, I knew I was doingthings well, except for this one
area, and that's why it was soconfusing.
In that one area I thought whycan I do all these other things,
but I can't do this one thing?
And I kind of villainizedmyself for it and thought I just
didn't have enough willpower,you know.
And so I would love for peopleto know that, when it comes to
(08:45):
addiction and something that isa real stronghold on your life,
that is not your fault, that isthe fault of the thing.
Right?
It's very common to fall intoan addictive snare like that,
and we can't get out of it if wecall ourselves wrong or if we
(09:05):
make ourselves the bad guy.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, and in your book you write here that you had
a woman who came up to youduring one of your meetings and
she said it's not your fault,and she said that it's like an
allergy and that to you.
I'd love for you to just goback in that moment of what you
were thinking at that time andher coming up to you and saying
(09:28):
that and how was that experiencefor you?
How did that like reshape andreframe that for you at the once
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Speaker 1 (10:14):
Well, that was the moment that changed everything
for me, because I had beentrying on my own to quit
drinking alcohol and, like youhad mentioned, I you know.
I asked the doctor about it, Iasked friends about it, I asked
a therapist about it, I asked mypastor about it and these
well-meaning, intelligent peoplejust said I didn't have a
problem.
(10:34):
But I knew I did.
So.
I got myself to a meeting oneday when I was just really
desperate, I was really as justlow and depressed and just
didn't understand why I couldn'tkick this thing, how I could
have willpower in other areasand not in this one area.
(10:54):
So I went to a 12-step meetingand a woman in the group who
knew it was my first time cameup to me and said it's not your
fault, it's okay, you have acondition, it's like an allergy,
and you never have to haveanother drink again and stick
around, stay with us, we'll showyou how there's there's a
solution to this.
And I, in that moment, just allthat shame and guilt flew off
(11:19):
me, because I went from I'm amonster, because I can't quit
drinking alcohol, because I'maddicted to, I'm deserving of
community and recovery andsobriety, because I'm addicted.
So my belief changed in aninstant, and you know it's
important for listeners to knowtoo.
(11:39):
I did come in and I wasexhausted from trying on my own.
So I heard you never have tohave another drink again, and
that was a big exhale for me.
That was a relief.
I was so happy to be there andpartner with these people in the
solution.
Some people come in to arecovery group and hear I never
get to have another drink again.
(12:00):
And that's okay too.
We're all coming in where we'recoming in, and if you're still
in that place where you'rehearing I never get to have
another drink again, thatdoesn't mean you're in the wrong
spot.
Keep going, and we all shareour stronghold is what we could
get in a community of people whohave the same goal of kicking,
(12:28):
the same stronghold as us.
We're able to recover incommunity and it's really.
That's really important.
Because it's important, it wasimportant for me to know I
wasn't alone and my problemwasn't unique.
Like we need to have humility.
We can't make it significant oh, I have this problem right,
that's just another.
Yeah, you're the only one.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
My problem wasn't unique.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
We need to have humility.
We can't make it significant.
Oh, I have this problem right,that's just another form of
pride and you're the only onestruggling with it.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
That makes you feel so alone.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
So alone or maybe special even, where you form
this identity or significance inthis thing you have and really
it's not there's millions ofpeople out there.
It's a big world, you know.
There's a lot of peoplestruggling with the same thing
you are, and we live in a worldwhere finding support groups is
(13:15):
easier than it's ever beenbecause we have online groups,
we have the internet, and sothat was really it.
That's when my belief changedand for me, I didn't know anyone
in nobody in my familyidentified as alcoholic my
parents and their parents, andtheir parents don't drink
(13:35):
alcohol.
They grew up in a community andkind of their social culture
didn't drink.
So I didn't know.
I didn't have anyone to say,hey, this is.
I had this problem and here'swhat I did about it.
Until I went to that group,that was the first time I'd met
(13:57):
people who identified as havingthat couldn't moderate alcohol
or identified as alcoholic.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And also what's interesting about your story is
that you didn't grow up aroundalcoholics and you write you
know your family that's not,that was not part of their
lifestyle.
They didn't drink alcohol.
You weren't around, so itwasn't a habit that you picked
up because your dad was doing itor your grandpa or your aunt or
whatever.
And also you grew up in a, youknow, fairly healthy family,
right Kind of the averageAmerican home, where that wasn't
(14:30):
an issue.
You weren't having these kindof traumatic things that
happened to you thus led you toaddiction.
So it's interesting, I think,to point out that it can happen
to anyone and it's not doesn'tmake you bad, and I love that.
You really touched onworthiness in your book and also
on shame and guilt.
How would you differentiatebetween shame and guilt?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
in a nutshell, I think of guilt as thinking I did
something wrong, and shame isthinking I'm a bad person.
And so guilt can be helpful ifwe don't use it in unhelpful
ways.
It can be an indicator to huh,I want you know our conscience,
huh.
I wonder why I feel this way,like I have that, like I'll
(15:19):
think, oh gosh, I shouldn't havesaid that to that person.
Right, it's just like a littletinge of guilt or whatever of my
conscience leading me to dobetter.
But I don't think I'm trashbecause I made a human mistake.
That's shame, and there's nevera place for shame.
(15:41):
Shame is a liar, it's justnever helpful, and it's also
something a lot of us as humansdeal with, and I want people to
be liberated from it and knowthat it holds no authority in
your life Shame.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
None.
I love this portion that youwrite in chapter one and you
just said shame is a liar.
Regardless of how high or lowyou set your standards, or
whether not you reach them, youare worthy and loved and whole.
You're a priceless treasure,whether you're addicted or sober
, guilty or innocent, sick orhealthy, stalled, seeking or
(16:27):
knowing, there is nothing youcan do or think to negate your
worth.
And shame holds no power, rightor authority in your life.
That is so beautifully put.
Thank you, yes, and how did you?
Um, how did you overcome thatshame cycle then?
(16:49):
How did that become somethingthat you were no longer
attaching your identity to?
Like I am bad, I can't do this,you know I I can accomplish
things in other areas of my life, but I can't seem to to let go
of this addiction.
How did you got rid of thatshame cycle?
Speaker 1 (17:07):
What started at that meeting, when that woman said
that.
That was really an eye openerfor me.
It's important to know, thoughand this is what, as a coach, I
work with clients on is thatjust because now we have a light
bulb moment like that, we alsohave years of the old narrative?
We've made that old narrative apattern in our brain, and so we
(17:30):
must be patient with ourself.
I have clients write it down.
What is the new story you aregoing to attach to the fact in
your life, Like the fact in mylife is I was addicted to
alcohol.
The story was I'm a monsterbecause of that.
The story shifted to I'mdeserving of recovery and
community because of that.
So that doesn't mean that I'mnever going to slip back into
(17:56):
that old monster narrative, butin order to do that, we really
need to be intentional.
I have people write it down noton a computer, but pen and
paper.
Get it into your nervous system, your physiology.
Write it down.
Write down the new story, Evenif you don't believe it yet.
Write it down as you want it tobe.
(18:17):
Declare it as truth and thenrecite it every day.
Make a mantra out of it,practice it, use body language
right.
The more emotion and motion weput into whatever we want to
declare and the direction wewant to go, the quicker it will
get into our neuroplasticityLike, the quicker our brain will
(18:42):
change to form that new pattern.
And just be patient, because ittook a long time for the old
narrative to be written and itwill take time for the new one.
It's just like a muscle at thegym.
You don't go to the gym onetime and have beautiful biceps.
You have to go many times.
You have to condition andrepeat, and that's the way our
(19:04):
brain works too.
It it's like a muscle.
So with narratives we've got tobe intentional about the
beliefs we want to have andeventually they will become
second nature.
I don't know the day ithappened, but I do know that now
I just live this narrative assecond nature, that I'm worthy
(19:28):
and whole and loved and valuable.
And I know as a young woman Ididn't think those things.
It took work to get where I amnow, but I don't really remember
it was just conditioning andrepeating, yeah, all the time
it's like rewired that process.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, that's beautiful and such a great
reminder that it's not a onestep and it's done.
It's a.
It's a repeating reconditioning, over and over, and I think,
too, our brain is alwayssearching for the evidence that
we're looking for right, so evena renee.
Bernie brown once said that ifyou are searching for a reason
(20:07):
why you don't belong, you willfind it.
You will find it, yes, and samething, too, like if we feel
that we're unworthy or we feellike we are broken, and this is,
it's like, it's like you.
Oh, there it is.
Oh, yep, you see that you didthat.
Yep, there it is, there's proof, and so I love that A.
You help people to reframe someof that, and also that you've
(20:31):
experienced that yourself inyour own story of.
Okay, this is how I'mreconditioning myself to believe
a new story about myself that Iam worthy.
I'm worthy of recovery, I'mworthy of community, I'm worthy
of being able to overcome this.
And you've been sober now forhow many years?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Well, I've been sober .
I got sober in 2007.
So that's.
But now here's the thing.
So there's in this in the book.
The reason the book was born isbecause in 2020, we I'd been
sober just shy of 14 years, wewere brand new empty nesters.
We moved out of state for anadventure, just for fun, and I
(21:14):
was in a new place.
It was 2020.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
It was quarantine 2020 was a crazy year for all of
us and there was.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I did not process all of that the way I wished I had,
and so I thought and I go intodetail about this in the book
but I thought you know, I'veworked through a lot of stuff in
my life.
I'm a coach, I have these tools.
I believe I did drink over somethings that have now been
(21:46):
resolved.
I've evolved, some things thathave now been resolved.
I've evolved and I decided toinvite.
I'll call back into my lifeagain.
And what's hilarious about that?
Now if I tell this story in myrecovery meetings and we all
have a good laugh together.
But I want people to know Idon't recommend this field trip,
right?
You don't?
need to do what I did to learnwhat I learned.
(22:07):
I wrote it in the book.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
So go over to the book.
You're curious like, okay, canI go back into this?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Let's see.
Because the biggest lesson Iknew this like.
So two things are reallyimportant here.
One I went out on a high note.
I wasn't, I didn't even.
I don't even call that arelapse I have trouble with that
word because I mean sometimes Ido, but I just think it's not
(22:33):
like I was down in the dumps soI drank.
So we need to be vigilant whenwe're on a mountaintop and when
we're in a pit right.
Addiction and alcohol or anyaddiction is a beast.
It will come for us whetherwe're high or low.
So I went out on a veryintentional high note.
(22:57):
And the second thing was that Iknew immediately, like first
sip, this was a mistake.
And what I knew immediately wasI have evolved.
Alcohol has not, I've changed,that's true, but alcohol has not
, and my reaction to itcertainly has not.
(23:18):
And it's there's a saying inrecovery it's easier to stay
sober than get sober, and thatis so true.
It was so difficult to get sobera second time.
The first time it was a relief.
I was looking for the solutionand I found it and I just went
running in arms wide open Showme the answer.
You know, the second time wasvery hard, because what happened
(23:43):
is all that shame that I'dworked through came back and now
I had to work on.
I had the opportunity to workon my pride and my ego again and
my humility, because I had alot of pride over staining that
streak.
You know I used to strugglewith being a perfectionist, so
(24:04):
here, I was staining my perfectsober streak.
So here I was staining myperfect sober streak.
So I was embarrassed to go backto recovery and say I'm on day
one when I had almost 14 years,and so I really had to get over
myself and get over my pride andonly focus on recovery, because
nobody cares it was only methat cared, like people will
(24:31):
welcome you back with arms wideopen and they don't care, we're
all just, they're doing thisthing together, one day at a
time.
We're not, we're not.
Um sure, we we clap and go yay,so-and-so has 20 years of
sobriety.
Great, that is great.
Right, I do want to celebratethat, but it was, but we can't.
We're also celebrating thatwe're all just sober today and,
(24:54):
whatever someone's thing is, ifyou can look at it that way, it
really helps because we all justhave today.
We all just have this hour thatwe're in right now.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, and so we're all on our journey together.
Right, we're all walkingtowards on our inner journey to
a better version of ourselves,so it's like we all have a
different path, and when youhave such a beautiful support
around you, it does make it alot easier.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I want to ask you too .
Speaker 2 (25:21):
How would you define addiction?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
well, I'll first say I'm not a doctor and I'm not a
addiction expert.
I'm not even a sobriety coach.
I'm a life coach and I'm anexpert at serving the person I
once was and I used to beaddicted to alcohol.
So for me, um, I define it assomething we adapted naturally,
(25:46):
like a ritualistic soother, andmaybe we were just naturally
looking to meet one of our basichuman needs, because I don't
think any of us really says, oh,I just want to have this gross
addiction in my life.
I don't think we seek that.
We're seeking somethinginnocently.
And because addiction is a beast, it creeps up on us and
(26:08):
ensnares us and we get caught inits trap, and so I think it's a
soother that becomes aritualistic soother and then, if
it's something that's harmfulfor us, that can turn into a
habit or addiction.
And you know, because there aresoothers or ritualistic
soothers that are not harmfullike I like to run right and so
(26:31):
I am probably addicted torunning.
If I don't run I'm kind offussy right or I'm there's
certain things in our life thatare not harmful for us now and
they're part of the rhythm, it'spart of your life and like, if
you don't have that, it could be.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
You know you're not the same.
You may not be as, like yousaid, you might be a little
grumpy if you don't get yourquiet time or whatever it is and
I'm still moving in thedirection I want to go.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I know that some people, running or exercise can
be a harmful addiction, right,anything can be Like what's good
for one person could also beharmful for another person.
So we're not all the same andwe want to just be looking at
that.
Is this keeping me on the pathof where I want to go?
And what works for a whilemight start working.
(27:31):
What works in one season mightnot work in another season, and
that's part of being human.
And then we need to shift ourpatterns, our habits, before
they become harmful addictions.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, and it's interesting too how you know
alcohol is a soother.
You know drugs soothe.
There's a lot of differentthings.
Gambling can be a soother, youknow.
Porn can be a soother thansoothing us.
It becomes the issue, ratherthan covering the issue or
soothing the original issue.
So that's kind of a verycomplex thing.
(28:19):
About addiction, I think, isthat we initially use certain
habits and certain things tosoothe away our pain, but then
that method becomes the actualproblem.
That's right.
Yep, that's exactly.
And so can you tell us aboutyour when your story?
(28:39):
Did you have your rock bottomexperience?
Because a lot of people don'tget help unless they hit rock
bottom and for everybody thatlooks super different.
For some, rock bottom isthey're getting a car accident,
they get DUI, they're in jailand now they have to sober up.
For another person it's theirspouse leaving them, you know
their kids it's, you know itcould be a fight at the bar and
(29:02):
so many different things.
A loss of a job and we havethis perception of for someone
to quit or to have the willpoweryou have to have this, you know
, kind of train wreck moment.
Tell us about your experience.
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Speaker 1 (29:56):
You don't have to have a train wreck moment, it
just needs to be a train wreckfor you, and I call it your pain
threshold.
All of us have a different painthreshold and I certainly have
had moments that looked wayworse than my rock bottom, and
it was just a night.
I was overwhelmed, doing kidsback to school paperwork and I
(30:20):
drank wine to soothe.
I was feeling pressure likenormal mom pressure, and I
heaped on all this guilt on topof just the pressure of being
tired and staying up late andgetting through this paperwork,
because I heaped on this story,this narrative on myself.
(30:41):
That's like you're such a loserYou're, you're a mom.
Can't you do this?
It's just paperwork, right?
Can't you do just this basicmom thing?
And I was just.
I just remember that reallyclearly.
I remember the narrative in myhead back in 2007.
And um, I so I had some wine.
(31:03):
Then I had, you know, put thekids to bed like very high
functioning.
Other people didn't see this,except my husband, who was the
only one, you know, up past thekids with me.
But and I just was sipping wine, and then more wine, and then
more wine and then more wine,and I'm I'm not physically, I'm
(31:24):
just not a good drinker anyway,so it's like that was not a good
vice for me and because I getsick, I would black out.
It's not like I set out to dothat, though.
I just wanted a little crutchto do the freaking paperwork.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yes, and I mean in reality, that is hard stuff,
like if you're a parent who'sbeen there in a schoolwork and
nowadays it's even more you getlike 25 emails about this
assignment and that, and for meit's a big overwhelm, you know,
and it is.
It feels like how is this athing?
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, yeah, and I've heard just really sad stories we
all have about.
You know lengths moms will goto when they're under pressure
and harm themselves or theirchildren.
And I, you know, I mean, thankGod, that was my pain threshold,
that was my rock bottom.
That was the morning I woke upat 3 am scared to death.
(32:23):
I thought.
I don't remember going to sleep.
Did I pass out?
What happened?
Are my kids okay?
It was just terrifying, eventhough it was just paperwork and
that was the night.
I looked up what to do and endedup at a 12-step meeting the
next day, which is where thewoman said that and recovery
started.
But I was scared to death to goto that meeting.
(32:45):
I knew nobody in, scared todeath to go to that meeting.
I knew nobody in addictiongroups.
You know, I thought, like yousaid, I wrote that in the book.
I thought it was for drunksliving under a bridge drinking
from a paper bag.
And what's funny is I don't saythat negatively I'm friends
with all kinds of people now,people that have been in jail,
(33:05):
that are in jail, that areliving under a bridge, right, I
mean, there's all thesebeautiful souls in recovery,
whether they have a home ortheir home is not in a house or
they're incarcerated or what,but we're all in there with the
same goal.
We don't share the same stories.
(33:28):
We don't share the same goal.
We don't have the share thesame stories.
We don't share the samelifestyle.
We don't share the samepersonalities.
We share the same goal and so Ibelieve for me, why I don't
want to drink is far moreimportant than why I did drink.
So I focus on that.
And we talked.
You know you brought up focusingon what you want.
(33:50):
You know I say this all thetime to my clients Focus on what
you want, not what you don'twant, because you'll get what
you focus on.
So if you focus on what youdon't want, you're going to get
that.
If I'm so focused on how hardit is to give up drinking, I'm
going to drink because I'mfocused on drinking.
It is to give up drinking, I'mgoing to drink because I'm
(34:11):
focused on drinking.
If I focus on this beautifullife I call sobriety or a sober
lifestyle, I'm going to keepmoving toward that because
that's where my focus is on.
So we get what we focus on.
So focus on what we want, notwhat we don't want.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
That's so beautiful to focus on what you want, not
what you don't want.
What would you say to somebodywho just feels really stuck and
they may not be alcohol.
For them, it could just be ascenario where they just feel
like they can't get past thisbarrier, this wall, and they
just feel really, really stuck.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I would say you are loved, you are valuable.
It's not your fault.
Many, many people have beenwhere you're at right now and
are at where you're at right now, and so reach out to at least
one person.
There's probably a communitygroup of people that have this
(35:09):
specific thing, but tellsomebody You're not, you're not,
you have no reason to feelshame.
So the first steps to get itout of the dark and you don't
have to be loud and proud andwrite a book like I did that's
that's one extreme, but you canbe.
There's a lot of anonymousgroups, right, you can talk to a
(35:31):
person anonymously.
So find a safe person.
If you don't find them rightaway, keep looking, because
they're out there.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah, that's so beautiful.
Yeah, I think just the thoughtof knowing that you're not alone
in your struggle is not, you'rejust you.
There's so many people that arestruggling with different
things and, yeah, in this worldthere's now we have access to
all these different groups andyou know, you can search online
(36:01):
to whatever that is.
You know, whether it's evenfrom hobbies and different
things.
People are just doing so manydifferent things.
There's a way to connect withthem, so I love that so much.
You also help people to getfrom where they are to where
they want to be.
You close that gap and I lovethat.
What are some helpful tools,coaching tools that you offer in
(36:24):
your coaching program?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Well, my favorite tool that that's in both of the
books is what we just talkedabout is how to change those
beliefs.
So when, when we have a fact orcircumstance in our life, it's
maybe something we can't control, something that happened, what,
what story are we attaching tothat fact?
Because that story, the storyand the fact mesh together to
(36:49):
form a belief.
And so that's my favorite toolis change the story you attach
to the fact and in that wayyou'll be able to change the
belief.
I go into detail about how todo that.
It's a framework in my books,so there's.
It's super detailed.
People can just go in there andI have.
(37:11):
The books are interactive soyou can use it as a workbook
even or not.
But I do ask a lot of questions, because coaches love to ask
questions and tap into theclient's curiosity and their own
resourcefulness.
I never tell or give advice.
I'm tapping into yourcreativity.
(37:32):
So there are a lot of questionsin the book to get curious
about.
What are those stories I'veattached to these circumstances
in my life, and could I betelling myself a better story?
Yes, is this story serving me?
Is it exhausting me orenergizing me?
If it's exhausting you, we'regoing to change the story.
(37:54):
And it's so important becauseover the years we do this
subconsciously, just how we formthese addictions.
We don't set out to do it, butsame thing with narratives.
We form these narratives.
We're all well-meaning peoplejust doing our best, but we get
busy and life is busy and weform these narratives and then
(38:15):
reinforce them over time andlive with these beliefs for a
long time.
And that's where a good coachis really valuable, because
that's kind of my job.
I can see the blind spots thatsomeone might not see and point
it out.
And then it's like I mean, theclients are the smart ones,
right?
(38:35):
Like once you have the lightbulb, you're going to change the
story.
But we just we need each other,we need community to help
remind ourselves, remind eachother, of the loveliness that
may have been forgotten overtime in each of us.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful, chris, and yeah,
chris's book is incrediblebecause it has little questions
and you can fill in the blanksthere and really a guide to help
you uncover your story and helpyou reframe some of those bad
or mindsets, old beliefs thatare not perhaps serving you in
(39:15):
where you want to go, so I'dlove that.
It's amazing that you'reproviding this as a tool to
people to not only get sober, ifthat is an area, but also in
other areas that may be a wallor they may be stuck.
Well, I want to honor your time, chris, and I usually wrap up
by asking three questions, whichis what is the bravest thing
(39:35):
that Chris has ever done?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Walking into that first recovery meeting.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Wow, yeah, yeah.
But especially with theperception that, hey, these are
the people and I'm I don'tbelong here, right, I'm not that
right well, I think it was more.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I think I've gotten myself to a place where I do
belong here and that was scarytoo.
Yeah, you know, and and I wasalone and no, nobody went with
me.
I just no, not a friend didn'trefer it to me because I didn't
know anyone to ask.
It was like an online Googlesearch.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, and I think what's interesting is that you
know you are kind of the reverseor the opposite, in the sense
of you were telling people youhad a problem.
Usually alcoholics are toldthat they have a problem and
they don't believe it.
Right, and it's like, no, I'mfine, like leave me alone, right
, it is, but you're like noproblem.
And your husband, your pastor,all these people are like no,
(40:33):
you're fine, you're not thatperson, like chill, you know
funny.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, yeah, um what is the best advice that someone
gave you?
I just got a great piece ofadvice on a podcast.
Actually, someone told me I was.
You know it's, it's your.
I'm hearing all theseinterviews and it's.
It can start to feel, when youlaunch a book, like you're
talking about yourself a lot,but really this is not
(41:02):
comfortable for me.
I'm.
It's not comfortable to sharethis vulnerable story in a book.
And so this person told me thatwhen you a message has been put
on your heart that you put intoa book or however, people are
having a message like you withyour podcast, that it is your
(41:25):
job to steward that message well, really for the rest of your
life.
And that was good advice for me, because I went from feeling
like I was talking about myself,maybe, and my story to I
shifted to this is this is amessage that God gave me that
(41:46):
I'm in charge of stewarding, andit's not about me at all.
It's about serving other peoplewith this message and again,
getting over myself and my prideand what people think I mean,
just going.
It's about other people and I'mjust a vessel, and that was
really good advice for me.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, that's beautiful Because if you steward
it well, you're able to presentit and this is serving somebody
else.
So I am coming, you know, allin, fully confident that this is
going to help somebody and I'mreally excited to share it.
Versus like, oh, is this?
Am I over?
Am I kind of like shining toobright over here?
Am?
Speaker 1 (42:24):
I doing this too much .
Speaker 2 (42:25):
You know I love that.
That is such good advice foranyone.
What are two to three booksthat were really pivotal in your
life?
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Well, I love this book Man's Search for Meaning
it's been around a long time byViktor Frankl.
Yes, one of my favorites as welland it's I quote it often.
It it's in my, quoted it in mybook, but I mean that's really
the, the father of this ideathat we can attach the meaning
(42:55):
everything I just talked about.
We are in charge of the meaningwe attach to the situation in
our life and my goodness, he wasin a concentration camp.
So if he, in that situation,could attach the meaning that he
did and use it for the serviceof others and steward that
message that still is still justout there for all of us today
(43:20):
in that book, that's reallyimpactful for me.
Another book book I love thisbook by Ryan Holiday.
The obstacle is the way it's umhe taught he is studies stoicism
and and puts a lot of wisdom inthere from the stoic
philosophers, and I love that.
(43:41):
It's kind of a go-to that youcan just pick up and flip
through and be reminded.
When I was in my, even beforesobriety, when I was 33, for
some reason I remember that'show old I was I read the Purpose
Driven Life by Rick Warren,which became wildly popular.
But you know, when I read it itreally changed the course of my
(44:06):
life because it I I learned.
You know, it's not about me,it's about, um, who I want to
serve and how do I want to dothat, and then there's a lot of
practical tools and examples fordoing that, and so that made a
big difference, because I thinkyour young 30s are very
(44:29):
impressionable time when youreally get to decide the course
of a lot of things in yourfuture.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yeah, that's when you're still trying to figure it
out.
You're like I think I know whatI'm doing, but not sure exactly
where yet, Right.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yes, so those are the three that first came to mind.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Right, yes, so those are the three that first came to
mind.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Well, chris is there anything that I haven't asked
you or anything else you'd loveto add to this episode and share
with the listener?
No, thank you so much.
You asked all the greatquestions and I just I mean, I
just want to say thank you forall these things we just talked
about.
You're you're doing it, you'rewalking the walk by having this
podcast.
I know it's a lot of work and Ialso know it serves a lot of
people.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
So thank you.
Thank you, Chris.
It's been an honor just to makespace for your story and I know
it's going to really encourageso many people.
And you know what's interestingabout storytelling is, in order
to share a good story, you haveto walk through it right, and
it's not pretty on the whenyou're in the middle of walking
(45:32):
it through and once you get pastthe point and you're on the
recovery journey, it's like okay, now I can share it.
But even recalling some of thatcan still be difficult and
still is like going right backinto that.
So I really just honor you forbeing vulnerable with your story
and it being a guide for otherpeople who need to hear
(45:53):
something like this.
So thank you so much.
Thank you, Thank you forlistening to the Once we Dare
podcast.
It is an honor to share theseencouraging stories with you.
If you enjoy the show, I wouldlove for you to tell your
friends, leave us a reviewerrating and subscribe to wherever
you listen to podcasts, becausethis helps others discover the
show.
You can find me on my website,speckhopoffcom.
(46:15):
Thank you.
It's important to know, though and this is what,
as a coach, I work with clientson is that just because now we
have a light bulb moment likethat, we also have years of the
old narrative.
We've made that old narrative apattern in our brain ourself.
(00:26):
I have clients write it down.
What is the new story you aregoing to attach to the fact in
your life Like the fact in mylife is I was addicted to
alcohol.
The story was I'm a monsterbecause of that.
The story shifted to I'mdeserving of recovery and
community because of that.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hey friends, welcome to the Ones who Dared podcast,
where stories of courage areelevated.
I'm your host, becca, and everyother week you'll hear
interviews from inspiring people.
My hope is that you will leaveencouraged.
I'm so glad you're here, chrisJansen, welcome to the Ones who
(01:05):
Dare podcast.
It's an honor to have you ontoday.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
It's an honor to be on Speca.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, I'm really excited to dig into your book
your latest book called GraceYourself how to Show Up for the
Sober Life you Want and you area leading results coach and
performance best-sellingaward-winning author, and I love
that.
You are not only aboard-certified coach, but you
also have a master's degree incounseling psychology over 25
(01:33):
years of experience and you helppeople achieve their goals,
navigate through some of theirpressure of performance,
overcoming self-sabotage andreally rewrite our narratives,
because a lot of us are tellingourselves stories that are maybe
not true and if we reframe that, then we'll be able to live our
life in a much better way.
So I'm really excited to haveyou on here and if you could
(01:56):
just tell me a little bit abouthow did you get into being a
life coach or high achievingperformance coach?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Well, I got my master's in counseling
psychology right after college,so that was a while ago and at
the time we didn't have coaching.
You know, it's like abasketball coach, a baseball
coach we didn't have lifecoaches.
And so when that came on thescene later in my life, my kids
were I already had kids by thattime and was being a mom and I
(02:29):
got really excited and went backto school and got my coaching
certification and my boardcertified coach.
And because really coaching isabout what works, not what
hasn't worked in the past, and I, just having come from the
therapy and counseling world, Ithink we have a great need for
(02:50):
it.
I love it.
I refer clients to therapistsoften.
I just wanted to work withpeople from where they're at now
and how to move forward fromwhere we're at.
So that's why coaching wasexciting for me at that season
of my life.
And then I wrote a book for myclients called Living All In.
That book came out in 2022.
(03:12):
And I just wanted all myfavorite coaching tools written
down for clients.
It's been a super great tool tohelp with working with clients.
And then I got the writing bugand wanted to write another one.
So I have another one thatactually launches the date of
this pod, like of this recording.
February 18th is launch day, soI'm really excited about that
(03:35):
and that's great.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Congratulations on that that is an exciting day.
We're launch day, thank you,and this book.
You use yourself as an examplein your journey of sobriety and
what I love about your story isthat, um, essentially you were
the person that wasn't what wemay think of an alcoholic right.
(03:57):
I think some of us have thisperception, and you also said
that was your perception too islike someone who struggles with
addiction to alcohol is someonewho is, you know, walking around
with a paper bag.
They're under the bridge.
It's like a whole extremeversion.
Meanwhile you were a mom ofthree kids, just really a
perfectionism.
(04:17):
Your life looked perfect fromthe outside and even when you
would brought up your concernyourself with your addiction,
you would have people who wouldminimize that and say, well, you
don't really have a problem,it's not, you know, maybe you
should just get coaching, or youshould do this and that, and so
it's interesting, because oursociety is so surrounded by
(04:41):
alcohol.
Our movies, everything.
There's a celebration portionyou toast to alcohol.
There is, it's just part of ourculture, so much so that a lot
of us who struggle can gounnoticed, and even when we are
expressing like, hey, I thinkmaybe I have a problem, it's
like no, you're not that bad,you're not out there doing this
(05:02):
and that You're not getting aDUI You're not harming people.
So could you just kind of gointo your experience with that,
and how did you come to strugglewith it before you discovered
it was a problem?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, that is so.
Thanks for bringing that up,because that's so important for
listeners to know that.
There's not a formula.
I don't know if it's still outthere, but we used to have this
take these 20 questions and theytell if you're alcoholic or not
.
That's not, don't do that Likethat's we don't.
There's not a one size fits all, and so if people are feeling
(05:38):
like and it doesn't have to bealcohol if there's something in
their life that's a distraction,ahold, that's keeping them from
getting where they want to go,that's worth questioning.
If that's keeping them stuckand they're not free, that's
worth taking a look at.
And the book Grace Yourself isfull of questions to help us
(06:01):
decide what that is.
Is it a stronghold, is it not?
Is it just something that'skind of annoying?
And is the cost of not givingit up going to be greater of the
cost of gritting it out andgiving it up to move forward?
So for me it's interesting,like you said, because I was
(06:27):
like on the outside, I, my lifeis very it still is looks very
functioning and put together.
And I should say too, I feltfunctioning and put together.
It's not like I was just.
I mean, I had self-loathing, Ihad negative self-talk.
I had this struggle, thestruggle being that I couldn't
(06:50):
drink alcohol like people aroundme could, and this is back in
2007 and before I got sober in2007.
So before that, culturally itwas really different than it is
now.
We didn't have mocktails andalcohol-free drinks.
People weren't being sober as ahealth trend.
It was just if you couldn'tdrink alcohol like the next
(07:14):
person, I believed something waswrong with me, that it meant I
had a problem and I took that tomean I'm a bad person.
I have a moral problem and Itook that to mean I'm a bad
person.
I have a moral problem and Ijust it sounds silly to think
that now, but I just didn'tunderstand it.
I didn't understand that it wasa physical addiction.
(07:36):
Alcohol's a, you know, anaddictive, toxic substance, and
some people can drink it and itdoesn't ignite this obsession
for more and some people cannot,and so I really looked at
myself as this weak-willedperson when in reality, I wasn't
(07:57):
the problem.
Alcohol was like alcohol and medon't mesh like like some other
people can moderate it.
I could not, and there's a lotof other people like me, and so
that was really confusing to me,because I did feel high,
functioning, and I knew I was agood mom, I knew I had a good
(08:19):
marriage, I knew I was doingthings well, except for this one
area, and that's why it was soconfusing.
In that one area I thought whycan I do all these other things,
but I can't do this one thing?
And I kind of villainizedmyself for it and thought I just
didn't have enough willpower,you know.
And so I would love for peopleto know that, when it comes to
(08:45):
addiction and something that isa real stronghold on your life,
that is not your fault, that isthe fault of the thing.
Right?
It's very common to fall intoan addictive snare like that,
and we can't get out of it if wecall ourselves wrong or if we
(09:05):
make ourselves the bad guy.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, and in your book you write here that you had
a woman who came up to youduring one of your meetings and
she said it's not your fault,and she said that it's like an
allergy and that to you.
I'd love for you to just goback in that moment of what you
were thinking at that time andher coming up to you and saying
(09:28):
that and how was that experiencefor you?
How did that like reshape andreframe that for you at the once
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Speaker 1 (10:14):
Well, that was the moment that changed everything
for me, because I had beentrying on my own to quit
drinking alcohol and, like youhad mentioned, I you know.
I asked the doctor about it, Iasked friends about it, I asked
a therapist about it, I asked mypastor about it and these
well-meaning, intelligent peoplejust said I didn't have a
problem.
(10:34):
But I knew I did.
So.
I got myself to a meeting oneday when I was just really
desperate, I was really as justlow and depressed and just
didn't understand why I couldn'tkick this thing, how I could
have willpower in other areasand not in this one area.
(10:54):
So I went to a 12-step meetingand a woman in the group who
knew it was my first time cameup to me and said it's not your
fault, it's okay, you have acondition, it's like an allergy,
and you never have to haveanother drink again and stick
around, stay with us, we'll showyou how there's there's a
solution to this.
And I, in that moment, just allthat shame and guilt flew off
(11:19):
me, because I went from I'm amonster, because I can't quit
drinking alcohol, because I'maddicted to, I'm deserving of
community and recovery andsobriety, because I'm addicted.
So my belief changed in aninstant, and you know it's
important for listeners to knowtoo.
(11:39):
I did come in and I wasexhausted from trying on my own.
So I heard you never have tohave another drink again, and
that was a big exhale for me.
That was a relief.
I was so happy to be there andpartner with these people in the
solution.
Some people come in to arecovery group and hear I never
get to have another drink again.
(12:00):
And that's okay too.
We're all coming in where we'recoming in, and if you're still
in that place where you'rehearing I never get to have
another drink again, thatdoesn't mean you're in the wrong
spot.
Keep going, and we all shareour stronghold is what we could
get in a community of people whohave the same goal of kicking,
(12:28):
the same stronghold as us.
We're able to recover incommunity and it's really.
That's really important.
Because it's important, it wasimportant for me to know I
wasn't alone and my problemwasn't unique.
Like we need to have humility.
We can't make it significant oh, I have this problem right,
that's just another.
Yeah, you're the only one.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
My problem wasn't unique.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
We need to have humility.
We can't make it significant.
Oh, I have this problem right,that's just another form of
pride and you're the only onestruggling with it.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
That makes you feel so alone.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
So alone or maybe special even, where you form
this identity or significance inthis thing you have and really
it's not there's millions ofpeople out there.
It's a big world, you know.
There's a lot of peoplestruggling with the same thing
you are, and we live in a worldwhere finding support groups is
(13:15):
easier than it's ever beenbecause we have online groups,
we have the internet, and sothat was really it.
That's when my belief changedand for me, I didn't know anyone
in nobody in my familyidentified as alcoholic my
parents and their parents, andtheir parents don't drink
(13:35):
alcohol.
They grew up in a community andkind of their social culture
didn't drink.
So I didn't know.
I didn't have anyone to say,hey, this is.
I had this problem and here'swhat I did about it.
Until I went to that group,that was the first time I'd met
(13:57):
people who identified as havingthat couldn't moderate alcohol
or identified as alcoholic.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And also what's interesting about your story is
that you didn't grow up aroundalcoholics and you write you
know your family that's not,that was not part of their
lifestyle.
They didn't drink alcohol.
You weren't around, so itwasn't a habit that you picked
up because your dad was doing itor your grandpa or your aunt or
whatever.
And also you grew up in a, youknow, fairly healthy family,
right Kind of the averageAmerican home, where that wasn't
(14:30):
an issue.
You weren't having these kindof traumatic things that
happened to you thus led you toaddiction.
So it's interesting, I think,to point out that it can happen
to anyone and it's not doesn'tmake you bad, and I love that.
You really touched onworthiness in your book and also
on shame and guilt.
How would you differentiatebetween shame and guilt?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
in a nutshell, I think of guilt as thinking I did
something wrong, and shame isthinking I'm a bad person.
And so guilt can be helpful ifwe don't use it in unhelpful
ways.
It can be an indicator to huh,I want you know our conscience,
huh.
I wonder why I feel this way,like I have that, like I'll
(15:19):
think, oh gosh, I shouldn't havesaid that to that person.
Right, it's just like a littletinge of guilt or whatever of my
conscience leading me to dobetter.
But I don't think I'm trashbecause I made a human mistake.
That's shame, and there's nevera place for shame.
(15:41):
Shame is a liar, it's justnever helpful, and it's also
something a lot of us as humansdeal with, and I want people to
be liberated from it and knowthat it holds no authority in
your life Shame.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
None.
I love this portion that youwrite in chapter one and you
just said shame is a liar.
Regardless of how high or lowyou set your standards, or
whether not you reach them, youare worthy and loved and whole.
You're a priceless treasure,whether you're addicted or sober
, guilty or innocent, sick orhealthy, stalled, seeking or
(16:27):
knowing, there is nothing youcan do or think to negate your
worth.
And shame holds no power, rightor authority in your life.
That is so beautifully put.
Thank you, yes, and how did you?
Um, how did you overcome thatshame cycle then?
(16:49):
How did that become somethingthat you were no longer
attaching your identity to?
Like I am bad, I can't do this,you know I I can accomplish
things in other areas of my life, but I can't seem to to let go
of this addiction.
How did you got rid of thatshame cycle?
Speaker 1 (17:07):
What started at that meeting, when that woman said
that.
That was really an eye openerfor me.
It's important to know, thoughand this is what, as a coach, I
work with clients on is thatjust because now we have a light
bulb moment like that, we alsohave years of the old narrative?
We've made that old narrative apattern in our brain, and so we
(17:30):
must be patient with ourself.
I have clients write it down.
What is the new story you aregoing to attach to the fact in
your life, Like the fact in mylife is I was addicted to
alcohol.
The story was I'm a monsterbecause of that.
The story shifted to I'mdeserving of recovery and
community because of that.
So that doesn't mean that I'mnever going to slip back into
(17:56):
that old monster narrative, butin order to do that, we really
need to be intentional.
I have people write it down noton a computer, but pen and
paper.
Get it into your nervous system, your physiology.
Write it down.
Write down the new story, Evenif you don't believe it yet.
Write it down as you want it tobe.
(18:17):
Declare it as truth and thenrecite it every day.
Make a mantra out of it,practice it, use body language
right.
The more emotion and motion weput into whatever we want to
declare and the direction wewant to go, the quicker it will
get into our neuroplasticityLike, the quicker our brain will
(18:42):
change to form that new pattern.
And just be patient, because ittook a long time for the old
narrative to be written and itwill take time for the new one.
It's just like a muscle at thegym.
You don't go to the gym onetime and have beautiful biceps.
You have to go many times.
You have to condition andrepeat, and that's the way our
(19:04):
brain works too.
It it's like a muscle.
So with narratives we've got tobe intentional about the
beliefs we want to have andeventually they will become
second nature.
I don't know the day ithappened, but I do know that now
I just live this narrative assecond nature, that I'm worthy
(19:28):
and whole and loved and valuable.
And I know as a young woman Ididn't think those things.
It took work to get where I amnow, but I don't really remember
it was just conditioning andrepeating, yeah, all the time
it's like rewired that process.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, that's beautiful and such a great
reminder that it's not a onestep and it's done.
It's a.
It's a repeating reconditioning, over and over, and I think,
too, our brain is alwayssearching for the evidence that
we're looking for right, so evena renee.
Bernie brown once said that ifyou are searching for a reason
(20:07):
why you don't belong, you willfind it.
You will find it, yes, and samething, too, like if we feel
that we're unworthy or we feellike we are broken, and this is,
it's like, it's like you.
Oh, there it is.
Oh, yep, you see that you didthat.
Yep, there it is, there's proof, and so I love that A.
You help people to reframe someof that, and also that you've
(20:31):
experienced that yourself inyour own story of.
Okay, this is how I'mreconditioning myself to believe
a new story about myself that Iam worthy.
I'm worthy of recovery, I'mworthy of community, I'm worthy
of being able to overcome this.
And you've been sober now forhow many years?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Well, I've been sober .
I got sober in 2007.
So that's.
But now here's the thing.
So there's in this in the book.
The reason the book was born isbecause in 2020, we I'd been
sober just shy of 14 years, wewere brand new empty nesters.
We moved out of state for anadventure, just for fun, and I
(21:14):
was in a new place.
It was 2020.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
It was quarantine 2020 was a crazy year for all of
us and there was.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I did not process all of that the way I wished I had,
and so I thought and I go intodetail about this in the book
but I thought you know, I'veworked through a lot of stuff in
my life.
I'm a coach, I have these tools.
I believe I did drink over somethings that have now been
(21:46):
resolved.
I've evolved, some things thathave now been resolved.
I've evolved and I decided toinvite.
I'll call back into my lifeagain.
And what's hilarious about that?
Now if I tell this story in myrecovery meetings and we all
have a good laugh together.
But I want people to know Idon't recommend this field trip,
right?
You don't?
need to do what I did to learnwhat I learned.
(22:07):
I wrote it in the book.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
So go over to the book.
You're curious like, okay, canI go back into this?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Let's see.
Because the biggest lesson Iknew this like.
So two things are reallyimportant here.
One I went out on a high note.
I wasn't, I didn't even.
I don't even call that arelapse I have trouble with that
word because I mean sometimes Ido, but I just think it's not
(22:33):
like I was down in the dumps soI drank.
So we need to be vigilant whenwe're on a mountaintop and when
we're in a pit right.
Addiction and alcohol or anyaddiction is a beast.
It will come for us whetherwe're high or low.
So I went out on a veryintentional high note.
(22:57):
And the second thing was that Iknew immediately, like first
sip, this was a mistake.
And what I knew immediately wasI have evolved.
Alcohol has not, I've changed,that's true, but alcohol has not
, and my reaction to itcertainly has not.
(23:18):
And it's there's a saying inrecovery it's easier to stay
sober than get sober, and thatis so true.
It was so difficult to get sobera second time.
The first time it was a relief.
I was looking for the solutionand I found it and I just went
running in arms wide open Showme the answer.
You know, the second time wasvery hard, because what happened
(23:43):
is all that shame that I'dworked through came back and now
I had to work on.
I had the opportunity to workon my pride and my ego again and
my humility, because I had alot of pride over staining that
streak.
You know I used to strugglewith being a perfectionist, so
(24:04):
here, I was staining my perfectsober streak.
So here I was staining myperfect sober streak.
So I was embarrassed to go backto recovery and say I'm on day
one when I had almost 14 years,and so I really had to get over
myself and get over my pride andonly focus on recovery, because
nobody cares it was only methat cared, like people will
(24:31):
welcome you back with arms wideopen and they don't care, we're
all just, they're doing thisthing together, one day at a
time.
We're not, we're not.
Um sure, we we clap and go yay,so-and-so has 20 years of
sobriety.
Great, that is great.
Right, I do want to celebratethat, but it was, but we can't.
We're also celebrating thatwe're all just sober today and,
(24:54):
whatever someone's thing is, ifyou can look at it that way, it
really helps because we all justhave today.
We all just have this hour thatwe're in right now.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, and so we're all on our journey together.
Right, we're all walkingtowards on our inner journey to
a better version of ourselves,so it's like we all have a
different path, and when youhave such a beautiful support
around you, it does make it alot easier.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I want to ask you too .
Speaker 2 (25:21):
How would you define addiction?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
well, I'll first say I'm not a doctor and I'm not a
addiction expert.
I'm not even a sobriety coach.
I'm a life coach and I'm anexpert at serving the person I
once was and I used to beaddicted to alcohol.
So for me, um, I define it assomething we adapted naturally,
(25:46):
like a ritualistic soother, andmaybe we were just naturally
looking to meet one of our basichuman needs, because I don't
think any of us really says, oh,I just want to have this gross
addiction in my life.
I don't think we seek that.
We're seeking somethinginnocently.
And because addiction is a beast, it creeps up on us and
(26:08):
ensnares us and we get caught inits trap, and so I think it's a
soother that becomes aritualistic soother and then, if
it's something that's harmfulfor us, that can turn into a
habit or addiction.
And you know, because there aresoothers or ritualistic
soothers that are not harmfullike I like to run right and so
(26:31):
I am probably addicted torunning.
If I don't run I'm kind offussy right or I'm there's
certain things in our life thatare not harmful for us now and
they're part of the rhythm, it'spart of your life and like, if
you don't have that, it could be.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
You know you're not the same.
You may not be as, like yousaid, you might be a little
grumpy if you don't get yourquiet time or whatever it is and
I'm still moving in thedirection I want to go.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I know that some people, running or exercise can
be a harmful addiction, right,anything can be Like what's good
for one person could also beharmful for another person.
So we're not all the same andwe want to just be looking at
that.
Is this keeping me on the pathof where I want to go?
And what works for a whilemight start working.
(27:31):
What works in one season mightnot work in another season, and
that's part of being human.
And then we need to shift ourpatterns, our habits, before
they become harmful addictions.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, and it's interesting too how you know
alcohol is a soother.
You know drugs soothe.
There's a lot of differentthings.
Gambling can be a soother, youknow.
Porn can be a soother thansoothing us.
It becomes the issue, ratherthan covering the issue or
soothing the original issue.
So that's kind of a verycomplex thing.
(28:19):
About addiction, I think, isthat we initially use certain
habits and certain things tosoothe away our pain, but then
that method becomes the actualproblem.
That's right.
Yep, that's exactly.
And so can you tell us aboutyour when your story?
(28:39):
Did you have your rock bottomexperience?
Because a lot of people don'tget help unless they hit rock
bottom and for everybody thatlooks super different.
For some, rock bottom isthey're getting a car accident,
they get DUI, they're in jailand now they have to sober up.
For another person it's theirspouse leaving them, you know
their kids it's, you know itcould be a fight at the bar and
(29:02):
so many different things.
A loss of a job and we havethis perception of for someone
to quit or to have the willpoweryou have to have this, you know
, kind of train wreck moment.
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Speaker 1 (29:56):
You don't have to have a train wreck moment, it
just needs to be a train wreckfor you, and I call it your pain
threshold.
All of us have a different painthreshold and I certainly have
had moments that looked wayworse than my rock bottom, and
it was just a night.
I was overwhelmed, doing kidsback to school paperwork and I
(30:20):
drank wine to soothe.
I was feeling pressure likenormal mom pressure, and I
heaped on all this guilt on topof just the pressure of being
tired and staying up late andgetting through this paperwork,
because I heaped on this story,this narrative on myself.
(30:41):
That's like you're such a loserYou're, you're a mom.
Can't you do this?
It's just paperwork, right?
Can't you do just this basicmom thing?
And I was just.
I just remember that reallyclearly.
I remember the narrative in myhead back in 2007.
And um, I so I had some wine.
(31:03):
Then I had, you know, put thekids to bed like very high
functioning.
Other people didn't see this,except my husband, who was the
only one, you know, up past thekids with me.
But and I just was sipping wine, and then more wine, and then
more wine and then more wine,and I'm I'm not physically, I'm
(31:24):
just not a good drinker anyway,so it's like that was not a good
vice for me and because I getsick, I would black out.
It's not like I set out to dothat, though.
I just wanted a little crutchto do the freaking paperwork.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yes, and I mean in reality, that is hard stuff,
like if you're a parent who'sbeen there in a schoolwork and
nowadays it's even more you getlike 25 emails about this
assignment and that, and for meit's a big overwhelm, you know,
and it is.
It feels like how is this athing?
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, yeah, and I've heard just really sad stories we
all have about.
You know lengths moms will goto when they're under pressure
and harm themselves or theirchildren.
And I, you know, I mean, thankGod, that was my pain threshold,
that was my rock bottom.
That was the morning I woke upat 3 am scared to death.
(32:23):
I thought.
I don't remember going to sleep.
Did I pass out?
What happened?
Are my kids okay?
It was just terrifying, eventhough it was just paperwork and
that was the night.
I looked up what to do and endedup at a 12-step meeting the
next day, which is where thewoman said that and recovery
started.
But I was scared to death to goto that meeting.
(32:45):
I knew nobody in, scared todeath to go to that meeting.
I knew nobody in addictiongroups.
You know, I thought, like yousaid, I wrote that in the book.
I thought it was for drunksliving under a bridge drinking
from a paper bag.
And what's funny is I don't saythat negatively I'm friends
with all kinds of people now,people that have been in jail,
(33:05):
that are in jail, that areliving under a bridge, right, I
mean, there's all thesebeautiful souls in recovery,
whether they have a home ortheir home is not in a house or
they're incarcerated or what,but we're all in there with the
same goal.
We don't share the same stories.
(33:28):
We don't share the same goal.
We don't have the share thesame stories.
We don't share the samelifestyle.
We don't share the samepersonalities.
We share the same goal and so Ibelieve for me, why I don't
want to drink is far moreimportant than why I did drink.
So I focus on that.
And we talked.
You know you brought up focusingon what you want.
(33:50):
You know I say this all thetime to my clients Focus on what
you want, not what you don'twant, because you'll get what
you focus on.
So if you focus on what youdon't want, you're going to get
that.
If I'm so focused on how hardit is to give up drinking, I'm
going to drink because I'mfocused on drinking.
It is to give up drinking, I'mgoing to drink because I'm
(34:11):
focused on drinking.
If I focus on this beautifullife I call sobriety or a sober
lifestyle, I'm going to keepmoving toward that because
that's where my focus is on.
So we get what we focus on.
So focus on what we want, notwhat we don't want.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
That's so beautiful to focus on what you want, not
what you don't want.
What would you say to somebodywho just feels really stuck and
they may not be alcohol.
For them, it could just be ascenario where they just feel
like they can't get past thisbarrier, this wall, and they
just feel really, really stuck.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I would say you are loved, you are valuable.
It's not your fault.
Many, many people have beenwhere you're at right now and
are at where you're at right now, and so reach out to at least
one person.
There's probably a communitygroup of people that have this
(35:09):
specific thing, but tellsomebody You're not, you're not,
you have no reason to feelshame.
So the first steps to get itout of the dark and you don't
have to be loud and proud andwrite a book like I did that's
that's one extreme, but you canbe.
There's a lot of anonymousgroups, right, you can talk to a
(35:31):
person anonymously.
So find a safe person.
If you don't find them rightaway, keep looking, because
they're out there.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah, that's so beautiful.
Yeah, I think just the thoughtof knowing that you're not alone
in your struggle is not, you'rejust you.
There's so many people that arestruggling with different
things and, yeah, in this worldthere's now we have access to
all these different groups andyou know, you can search online
(36:01):
to whatever that is.
You know, whether it's evenfrom hobbies and different
things.
People are just doing so manydifferent things.
There's a way to connect withthem, so I love that so much.
You also help people to getfrom where they are to where
they want to be.
You close that gap and I lovethat.
What are some helpful tools,coaching tools that you offer in
(36:24):
your coaching program?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Well, my favorite tool that that's in both of the
books is what we just talkedabout is how to change those
beliefs.
So when, when we have a fact orcircumstance in our life, it's
maybe something we can't control, something that happened, what,
what story are we attaching tothat fact?
Because that story, the storyand the fact mesh together to
(36:49):
form a belief.
And so that's my favorite toolis change the story you attach
to the fact and in that wayyou'll be able to change the
belief.
I go into detail about how todo that.
It's a framework in my books,so there's.
It's super detailed.
People can just go in there andI have.
(37:11):
The books are interactive soyou can use it as a workbook
even or not.
But I do ask a lot of questions, because coaches love to ask
questions and tap into theclient's curiosity and their own
resourcefulness.
I never tell or give advice.
I'm tapping into yourcreativity.
(37:32):
So there are a lot of questionsin the book to get curious
about.
What are those stories I'veattached to these circumstances
in my life, and could I betelling myself a better story?
Yes, is this story serving me?
Is it exhausting me orenergizing me?
If it's exhausting you, we'regoing to change the story.
(37:54):
And it's so important becauseover the years we do this
subconsciously, just how we formthese addictions.
We don't set out to do it, butsame thing with narratives.
We form these narratives.
We're all well-meaning peoplejust doing our best, but we get
busy and life is busy and weform these narratives and then
(38:15):
reinforce them over time andlive with these beliefs for a
long time.
And that's where a good coachis really valuable, because
that's kind of my job.
I can see the blind spots thatsomeone might not see and point
it out.
And then it's like I mean, theclients are the smart ones,
right?
(38:35):
Like once you have the lightbulb, you're going to change the
story.
But we just we need each other,we need community to help
remind ourselves, remind eachother, of the loveliness that
may have been forgotten overtime in each of us.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful, chris, and yeah,
chris's book is incrediblebecause it has little questions
and you can fill in the blanksthere and really a guide to help
you uncover your story and helpyou reframe some of those bad
or mindsets, old beliefs thatare not perhaps serving you in
(39:15):
where you want to go, so I'dlove that.
It's amazing that you'reproviding this as a tool to
people to not only get sober, ifthat is an area, but also in
other areas that may be a wallor they may be stuck.
Well, I want to honor your time, chris, and I usually wrap up
by asking three questions, whichis what is the bravest thing
(39:35):
that Chris has ever done?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Walking into that first recovery meeting.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Wow, yeah, yeah.
But especially with theperception that, hey, these are
the people and I'm I don'tbelong here, right, I'm not that
right well, I think it was more.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I think I've gotten myself to a place where I do
belong here and that was scarytoo.
Yeah, you know, and and I wasalone and no, nobody went with
me.
I just no, not a friend didn'trefer it to me because I didn't
know anyone to ask.
It was like an online Googlesearch.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, and I think what's interesting is that you
know you are kind of the reverseor the opposite, in the sense
of you were telling people youhad a problem.
Usually alcoholics are toldthat they have a problem and
they don't believe it.
Right, and it's like, no, I'mfine, like leave me alone, right
, it is, but you're like noproblem.
And your husband, your pastor,all these people are like no,
(40:33):
you're fine, you're not thatperson, like chill, you know
funny.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, yeah, um what is the best advice that someone
gave you?
I just got a great piece ofadvice on a podcast.
Actually, someone told me I was.
You know it's, it's your.
I'm hearing all theseinterviews and it's.
It can start to feel, when youlaunch a book, like you're
talking about yourself a lot,but really this is not
(41:02):
comfortable for me.
I'm.
It's not comfortable to sharethis vulnerable story in a book.
And so this person told me thatwhen you a message has been put
on your heart that you put intoa book or however, people are
having a message like you withyour podcast, that it is your
(41:25):
job to steward that message well, really for the rest of your
life.
And that was good advice for me, because I went from feeling
like I was talking about myself,maybe, and my story to I
shifted to this is this is amessage that God gave me that
(41:46):
I'm in charge of stewarding, andit's not about me at all.
It's about serving other peoplewith this message and again,
getting over myself and my prideand what people think I mean,
just going.
It's about other people and I'mjust a vessel, and that was
really good advice for me.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, that's beautiful Because if you steward
it well, you're able to presentit and this is serving somebody
else.
So I am coming, you know, allin, fully confident that this is
going to help somebody and I'mreally excited to share it.
Versus like, oh, is this?
Am I over?
Am I kind of like shining toobright over here?
Am?
Speaker 1 (42:24):
I doing this too much .
Speaker 2 (42:25):
You know I love that.
That is such good advice foranyone.
What are two to three booksthat were really pivotal in your
life?
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Well, I love this book Man's Search for Meaning
it's been around a long time byViktor Frankl.
Yes, one of my favorites as welland it's I quote it often.
It it's in my, quoted it in mybook, but I mean that's really
the, the father of this ideathat we can attach the meaning
(42:55):
everything I just talked about.
We are in charge of the meaningwe attach to the situation in
our life and my goodness, he wasin a concentration camp.
So if he, in that situation,could attach the meaning that he
did and use it for the serviceof others and steward that
message that still is still justout there for all of us today
(43:20):
in that book, that's reallyimpactful for me.
Another book book I love thisbook by Ryan Holiday.
The obstacle is the way it's umhe taught he is studies stoicism
and and puts a lot of wisdom inthere from the stoic
philosophers, and I love that.
(43:41):
It's kind of a go-to that youcan just pick up and flip
through and be reminded.
When I was in my, even beforesobriety, when I was 33, for
some reason I remember that'show old I was I read the Purpose
Driven Life by Rick Warren,which became wildly popular.
But you know, when I read it itreally changed the course of my
(44:06):
life because it I I learned.
You know, it's not about me,it's about, um, who I want to
serve and how do I want to dothat, and then there's a lot of
practical tools and examples fordoing that, and so that made a
big difference, because I thinkyour young 30s are very
(44:29):
impressionable time when youreally get to decide the course
of a lot of things in yourfuture.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yeah, that's when you're still trying to figure it
out.
You're like I think I know whatI'm doing, but not sure exactly
where yet, Right.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yes, so those are the three that first came to mind.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Right, yes, so those are the three that first came to
mind.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Well, chris is there anything that I haven't asked
you or anything else you'd loveto add to this episode and share
with the listener?
No, thank you so much.
You asked all the greatquestions and I just I mean, I
just want to say thank you forall these things we just talked
about.
You're you're doing it, you'rewalking the walk by having this
podcast.
I know it's a lot of work and Ialso know it serves a lot of
people.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
So thank you.
Thank you, Chris.
It's been an honor just to makespace for your story and I know
it's going to really encourageso many people.
And you know what's interestingabout storytelling is, in order
to share a good story, you haveto walk through it right, and
it's not pretty on the whenyou're in the middle of walking
(45:32):
it through and once you get pastthe point and you're on the
recovery journey, it's like okay, now I can share it.
But even recalling some of thatcan still be difficult and
still is like going right backinto that.
So I really just honor you forbeing vulnerable with your story
and it being a guide for otherpeople who need to hear
(45:53):
something like this.
So thank you so much.
Thank you, Thank you forlistening to the Once we Dare
podcast.
It is an honor to share theseencouraging stories with you.
If you enjoy the show, I wouldlove for you to tell your
friends, leave us a reviewerrating and subscribe to wherever
you listen to podcasts, becausethis helps others discover the
show.
You can find me on my website,speckhopoffcom.
(46:15):
Thank you.
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