February 4, 2025 • 61 mins
Jake Beiler shares his transformative journey of leaving the Amish community, highlighting the contrast between his upbringing and current life as a real estate investor. His story sheds light on the complexities of shunning, emerging technology use in the Amish culture, and the importance of community ties while seeking personal authenticity.
• Jake's life on a dairy farm and the work ethic developed
• Contradictory rules around technology and communication
• The emotional journey of questioning and leaving the Amish community
• The impact of shunning and familial relationships post-exit
• Current involvement in real estate and offering education to others
• Reflection on personal authenticity and community influence
Jake’s transition wasn’t just about leaving the Amish community; it marked the beginning of a transformative journey that continues to impact both him and the people he once knew. By founding a monthly meetup focused on real estate and personal development, he’s fostered a space where others can explore financial independence and personal growth. Through this initiative, Jake has become a source of inspiration, inspiring others to create lives that are both fulfilling and authentic.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Amish are not for smoking right.
They consider smoking a sin.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Not true.
Really, you might be surprisedto hear this, but the more.
I don't know if you're familiarwith these terms, but there's
kind of what's known as the moreliberal Amish and the more
conservative Amish.
Okay, I know those two wordsare very broad terms, but what I
would consider the moreconservative Amish are the ones
(00:26):
generally in southern LancasterCounty and, interestingly enough
, those that are more harsh oncell phones, more harsh on all
of the other rules, are actuallythe bigger tobacco users and
tobacco farmers.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Hey friends, welcome to the Ones who Dared podcast,
where stories of courage areelevated.
I'm your host, Becca, and everyother week you'll hear
interviews from inspiring people.
My hope is that you will leaveencouraged.
I'm so glad you're here, JakeBeiler.
(01:06):
Welcome to the Once Videopodcast.
I am so excited to have you inthe studio today.
I'm honored and excited to behere.
Thanks for having me.
So this series, as you know,Leaving Amish is about what is
it like to be an Amish and justyour experience from that.
People are really curious ofwhat is the life of an Amish and
, essentially, what prompted youto leave and who you are today.
(01:30):
What are you up to today?
So I'd like to get started byfinding out what does Amish mean
to you?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Wow, it's a loaded question.
So obviously, growing up in theculture, you know, I think this
is true for all of us, nomatter how we grow up,
especially as a kid, growing upjust whatever you have is normal
to you.
You know.
Whether that's even that couldbe a broad range of things, you
know.
So growing up as an Amish kid,going to school, going to, you
(02:00):
know, one room schoolhouse,walking to school, those things
were all normal.
A lot has changed in the Amishcommunity and even in like.
Gone to school, gone to, youknow, one room schoolhouse,
walking to school, those thingswere all normal.
A lot has changed in the Amishcommunity and even in like my
family that's still Amish in thelast, you know, 10, 20, 30
years.
But back when I was a kidgrowing up, you know we wanted
to use a telephone.
We'd be walking up to ourneighbors to use the telephone.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
And were your neighbors Amish?
No, no, okay, so I just want topause you on the telephone
thing, because I do have afollow-up question on that.
Is it true that the Amisharen't allowed to have a
telephone within their is it thehouse?
But they are allowed to have itoutside their house, on their
property.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Generally the way it would work in our community is
they?
Well, this is changing too, butwhat has been very normal the
last you know, 10, 20 years, iswhat was known as like a phone
shanty.
It's like this little four byfour, like a literally four foot
by four foot shed outside of abuilding where your phone line
is run into and that's whereyour phone is.
(03:02):
Some people had a ringer on theoutside so that you could kind
of hear it from you know adistance.
Um, um, maybe you'd put alittle heater in in the winter
time if you're going to be infor any length of time.
Um, and it's one of those thingsthat over the years, like for
us, you know, at first, when wehad a phone shanty, it was, like
you know, we had to walk, youknow, across the field to get
(03:25):
there because it was at anotherAmish neighbor's property that
we shared.
So very, very interesting tothink about that, compared to
the way most of us operate now,including myself, where you know
you have your phone with youall the time.
Yeah, like if I would haveforgot my phone coming here, I
mean I wouldn't have camebecause I wouldn't have been
(03:45):
able to find the place.
So it's very interestingknowing that I grew up like that
and yet how dependent that I amon phone and technology in
general.
Now it's a big switch.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Wow, yeah.
So what was your day-to-daylike?
Growing up as a kid, you saidyou walked to school.
You were in one singleclassroom.
What were some of yourresponsibilities, or what was
your day-to-day like?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So I grew up on a 65-acre dairy farm so we had 30
to 40 dairy cows, got up in themorning to help milk the cows
before I went to school, andfield work.
You're farming corn hay and youknow field work.
You know you're farming cornhay, all those crops with horses
.
So we had eight workhorses andit's a grind.
You know when it's haymakingtime or time to put corn away.
I remember you know days,summertime, when school was out,
(04:38):
you know we'd be getting upmilking the cows in the morning,
throwing the harnesses therather sweaty and smelly
harnesses on these workhorses,you know, before breakfast so we
could go in, have breakfast,come back out, hitch up the
horses to go, you know, plow thefields or mow hay or bill hay,
all of those things.
You know.
(04:58):
It's just, it was normal lifeand it would be really, really
hard.
Like, as much as I value thatand probably for the most part
enjoyed it, I would not want togo back to that.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, and how old are you when you had to take part
in family chore responsibilities?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I mean that varies but it's pretty young because
you grow up in it and you know Iwas probably, I was probably I
don't remember but oftentimes,as maybe a three or
four-year-old kid, you're outlike on the hay wagon when
you're baling hay.
You know you get involved froma very early age.
You know around a farm there'salways chores, maybe it's you
(05:42):
know, putting fresh water outfor the calves or feeding the
calves.
There's things that you can doat a pretty early age.
So I don't remember how old Iwas, but you get involved pretty
young when you grow up on afamily farm.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, and would you credit some of that hard work
ethic to your success in thereal estate investment now and
what you do?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, absolutely, because you just grow up in a.
I think there's also kind ofthis.
I don't know how you explain it, but when you grow up on a
family farm, it's like you knowwhen it's time to bale hay, when
it's time to put the corn away,and maybe it's going to rain
tomorrow.
It's like all hands on deck,like we got to make this happen,
(06:22):
and so I do think that workethic just being immersed in
that growing up it just becamenormal.
It's like you do what you needto do, like the thought of
quitting at five o'clock becauseit's time to quit is not even
on the board, because you knowwe need to get the work done.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, so it built some tenacity, resilience and
perseverance in you where you'reable to kind of go and grind,
and that's one positive thingright that transferred over into
your adult life, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
No, that is something that I'm grateful for, but
along those lines, as with manythings in life, it can also be
taken too far.
You know, there's somethingabout being a workaholic and
just not knowing how to stopworking, and I mean work can
become an idol.
Work is actually something.
It took me a long time till Ifelt like I really realized this
(07:18):
, but work is something that wasa commandment from God in the
garden before the fall right.
It's a God-given duty, and Ithink that is why we get so much
fulfillment out of a good, hardday's work.
But anything like that that Godcreated, the enemy also tries to
use for his purposes.
(07:39):
So work can very much become anidol, in my opinion, and it can
be used to drown out otherthings in life.
It can be used to drown out,you know, pain, drama, where
it's like we're just working allday, every day, and it's all
that we think about.
Right, and you're kind ofhiding behind this thing.
That doesn't look like anaddiction or an idol, because
(08:01):
you know, if you're ahardworking person, it's like,
wow, it's admirable.
Yeah, exactly.
So.
That is the flip side of it,and I, you know, I do see some
of that in our culture as well.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, is that something that you personally
had to kind of work through andreframe for yourself?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I certainly don't think that I was unaffected by
that, but just the way that I'mwired, I don't think it was as
big of a struggle for me becauseI don't really like.
I always like to tell people.
When people talk about theLancaster County rat race, I'll
just say, well, I unsubscribedfrom the rat race, I'm not
(08:37):
playing that game, yeah, butit's certainly not that I'm
unaffected by it, because it isa thing.
You just work late if you needto do something.
But yeah, again, just becauseof my personality and the way
that I'm wired, I'm not ascompetitive by nature.
So I don't feel like it was, asit's not as big of a struggle
(08:57):
for me as maybe for some people.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, I see.
And what order of the Amish didyour family belong to?
The old order, the old order,amish the main.
So is that order of the Amishdid your family belong to?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
The old order.
The old order, Amish the main.
So is that more of the stricterone?
It's really the only ones thatyou see around Lancaster County.
I mean there was, was it backin the 70s or something?
There was what they called anew order, that kind of split
off, but they are pretty muchnon-existent anymore.
So yeah, when you see an Amishperson in Lancaster County, it's
(09:26):
an older Amish.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I got you and what would you say are some of the
rules the Amish have that'sdifferent from the outside
society.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
So I mean, one of the biggest ones is just the fact
that they don't drive vehicles.
You know, no electricity isanother one, although that is
changing.
I mean you probably see moreand more solar panels, people
trying to find creative ways,but as a general rule that's a
(09:59):
big one for the Amish, noelectricity.
And then there's all kinds ofrules that are like, depending
on what community, evendepending on what church
district within that community,it gets so complicated.
As a rule they're not supposedto have technology.
You know, computers,smartphones, things like that.
(10:21):
But you know, in like probablyall of my siblings that are
still Amish have smartphones.
So it's becoming a more andmore common thing.
It's not really openly acceptedwhere they're saying, hey, you
can have this now, but it's justbecome more accepted in parts
(10:41):
of the community, not in theentire community accepted in
parts of the community, not inthe entire community.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
So with the smartphone cell phone use, is it
?
Is there?
Do they set separate specificguidelines for using that?
Like, if your siblings aren'thome, do they have to put it
away at a certain place?
Is there any rules around thator is that like family specific?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
There's not because you can't really, because in
general, they're not openlyallowed, right?
So you can't make rules aroundsomething that you're not
allowed to have.
Yeah, because if you're goingto say, hey, do this and do this
and do this with yoursmartphone, it's acknowledging
that they're kind of allowed.
So it's actually one of thethings that I feel would be very
(11:26):
beneficial and this stuff iscoming if there would be more
like training and accountability, because, like one of the
reasons multiple reasons, butone of the reasons why
smartphones would be frownedupon is just because of the
internet and the things that youcan access on there, which is a
real thing.
You thing I would agree withthat.
But how about we talk aboutsome training and some education
(11:49):
around those things rather thanpretend that they don't exist?
So if your children getsmartphones and they're hiding
them and they're only on themwhen they're in their bedroom
and nobody else is around, youcan see how that could lead to
some bad things.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
So I have a question about tobacco farming.
Their bedroom and nobody elseis around.
You can see how that could leadto some bad things.
So I have a question abouttobacco farming.
The Amish are not for smoking,right.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
They consider smoking a sin, not true?
You might be surprised to hearthis, but the more.
I don't know if you're familiarwith these terms, but there's
kind of what's known as the moreliberal Amish and the more
conservative Amish.
I know those two words are verybroad terms, but what I would
consider the more conservativeAmish are the ones generally in
(12:36):
southern Lancaster County and,interestingly enough, those that
are more harsh on cell phones,more harsh on all of the other
rules, are actually the biggertobacco users and tobacco
farmers.
It doesn't make any sense, it'sjust the way.
It's kind of a traditionalthing.
Tobacco used to be a big cashcrop and so it's just kind of
(13:00):
something that got handed down.
It's still a big cash crop forsome Amish farmers.
There's many of them in thearea that I live, which is more
in the northern part ofLancaster County that would not
farm it because they don'tbelieve in it.
But yeah, there's a lot ofAmish that use tobacco and, to
make that even a bit morecomplicated, they will smoke a
(13:24):
lot of like cigarettes and cigar.
Cigars, not cigarettes.
Like you can't, not the ones,not the.
When I was a kid it was usuallythe thing of like not, you're
not allowed to smoke the whiteones.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
It's bizarre so that's what you knew.
Yeah, smoke the white ones.
Yeah, yeah, wow so that is.
That is interesting because youknow, my perception and again
this is why we're having thisinterview is to clear up some of
this false beliefs orperceptions.
Right, you'll be working atclearing that up for a while
because there's a lot.
Yeah, and it just seems like youknow they're farming tobacco,
(14:00):
but yet you know they have avery conservative way of life,
that this is something that Iwould think would be frowned
upon, but you're saying, no,that's not really the case
inside the community.
So that's interesting.
I learned something new today,just a side note on that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
So there are, you know, churches that we would
generally consider to be moreprogressive.
You know different forms ofMennonite that you know they
would have electricity, theywould drive vehicles and do all
of that.
Some of those are very hardagainst tobacco and so I have
heard of situations where someof those people become the quote
(14:36):
drivers for the Amish people.
Right, because the Amish don'tdrive, so they need drivers to
take them places.
They need drivers like a truckand a trailer to take their
tobacco to the tobacco auctionor wherever they take it.
But some of these Mennonitesthat would be their drivers
would not even haul the tobaccobecause they have that hard
(14:57):
convictions against the tobacco.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Wow, it's weird, that is so wild.
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.
And the other thing that isconfusing to me as an outsider
and I brought this up with Marytoo is that if you're not
allowed to use technology, whyare you allowed to use outside
technology, such as hiring adriver, if you can't drive your
own car?
Where is the differentiator?
(15:21):
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, I don't think there's a very good answer for
that.
I believe probably the bestexplanation is if you are able
to, if you drive yourself, youcan go wherever you want,
whenever you want, and there'sjust more.
There's no limitations, right,but there's this thought that
seems to be if you make it a bitharder to do, then you probably
(15:48):
won't.
I don't know, it really doesn'tmake sense.
It's just one of those rulesthat was put in place way back.
And, yeah, there are Amishcommunities I'm not sure where,
not in our area, but there areAmish communities I don't know
if you ever heard of, like theSchwartzentruber Amish.
I'm not sure where, not in ourarea, but there are Amish
communities I don't know if youever heard of, like the
Schwartzentruber Amish.
(16:08):
It's a last name and some ofthose communities will not allow
.
They don't travel on anythingexcept public transportation.
So you're talking Greyhoundbuses, trains they can't fly.
So there's only a few thingstrains and they can't fly.
So there's only a few things.
(16:29):
They would not allow theirpeople to actually drive with a
neighbor in a vehicle.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
That's interesting.
Yes, so many different,different experiences, and and I
think that's why I wanted tointerview multiple people is
because everybody has their ownstory, their own perspective,
the way that you experiencedyourself within the community.
So to get the variousperspectives is more wholesome
than you know, basing everythingon one person and their
experience.
Yeah, and is it true that youcan't have buttons on clothing,
(16:55):
or is that something that's um?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I mean so the the buttons are actually.
The buttons are what you'reallowed to have.
Snaps is something that in someareas is generally kind of
frowned upon.
I would say it's pretty much anone, like I would have forgot
about that one.
Yeah, but that is a thing insome communities, where they
would have buttons and not snapson their shirts and things like
(17:21):
that.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Okay, and then this is an interesting one Rubber
tires are prohibited in farmequipment.
Is that true?
Generally, yes.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, I remember as a kid we would usually have these
hay wagons, farm wagons that wewould use to do things in the
fields, and if you needed a newwagon you might go to an auction
and you bought one.
And if it was a, you know itwas if, depending on what for
auction it was unless anotherAmish person was selling one it
(17:49):
was probably going to haverubber tires on it.
So it was like, yeah, you mightuse it like that for a little
bit, but then you were expectedto get steel wheels put on it
that were more expensive andmore bumpy and more loud and
just, you know, I mean, therewas no.
Yeah, they're very annoying,but that's, it's a real thing,
(18:14):
yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, that's interesting.
And so the education with theAmish ends in eighth grade, is
that right?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
It's almost correct.
So there's what we call avocational class that goes after
eighth grade, which isbasically three hours a week.
So after I graduated eighthgrade I would have been 14 years
old.
And then you go to what we callthis vocational class until
you're 15.
Okay, and then the way thatthat was, I guess, accepted by
(18:43):
the state or whatever back whenit was set up, is because it's
generally thought of as you getyour education on the farm,
which is it's real, like that'swhere I would have learned a lot
of skills and things like that.
It's not as true anymore as itused to be, because there's not
near as many Amish growing up onfarms as it used to be, because
(19:05):
there's not near as many Amishgrowing up on farms.
But yeah, I only went to eighthgrade and then the three-hour
vocational school for anothercouple of months and that's all
the education I ever got.
That's all the school officialeducation I got.
I've been being educated eversince and I won't stop.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, yeah, we're always forever learners.
I feel like that's the way yougrow, is you never stop learning
, right?
So I want to get back to yourstory as you were growing up on
the dairy farm.
At what point did you feel likeyou didn't want to be an Amish
as an adult?
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Speaker 2 (20:23):
So that would have been a very slow and a gradual
transition for me.
I'll just kind of go through itpretty quickly and then you can
ask questions on specifics ifyou want.
So when I was 16, I startedworking part-time for my uncle
in a woodworking shop.
So I worked for him, I thinkthree days a week when I first
(20:44):
started, and still involved onthe farm at home.
You know, I would sometimeshelp with field work in the
evening when I came home, whenthings were very busy.
Probably not until I was wellinto my 20s did I start to kind
of question some things aboutthe Amish, about the, the
religion, if you will.
Throughout my 20s I would havegot involved with some different
(21:09):
ministries.
I did actually.
No, probably not until I wasmore, maybe into my 30s.
So I worked the same job fromthe time I was 16 until I was 28
years old and then I just gotso bored and was so ready for
something else.
(21:29):
That that's when I started mybusiness and started investing
in real estate.
So at that point I would say Iwas probably still a fairly
committed Amish person.
And then into my 30s itprobably was that I really
started seeing some things,questioning things.
I traveled to Bluefields,nicaragua, for some mission
(21:52):
trips to serve alongside a or toserve with a church, not an
Amish church but another churchthat I was connected with
through some friends.
I got involved in some prisonministry.
There was a group of us thatkind of through a big
organization, but a group of usthat went to a prison out in
Western PA maximum securityprison, had just an incredible
(22:17):
experience out there getting toknow some inmates.
So through a lot of things likethat I just started questioning
things more and more and I knoweverybody loves this story of
where it's like something majorhappened.
You have this transformationalexperience.
All of that.
That's not my story.
(22:37):
It's just slowly, over time, Ijust started seeing things and
questioning things, startedseeing things and questioning
things.
My brother, just younger thanme, moved out of the area, left
the Amish before I did so.
Of course that was anotherthing where I was like you know,
I'm not sure why he's doingthis, but just all of these
(22:57):
things kind of get you to askingquestions.
You know reading scripture, andthen it was just very gradual.
It came to a point for mefinally where I would say it was
probably a couple-year processwhere I was considering it but I
(23:18):
didn't feel like I had clarity.
And there was also this what Inow realize was not true, but
there's kind of from the time onthat I started my business kind
of, you know, as a young adultI had I did have some influence
in the community and in somepeople around me, and so there
(23:41):
was this thing of like, well, ifI leave, I'm going to lose that
influence and as much as Icould clearly see that the
general Amish beliefs and stuffhas a lot of flaws, I still I
love the people.
So I'm like, well, if everyonethat's Amish kind of comes to a
better understanding of thetruth and just leaves, then the
(24:04):
Amish will never change right,like I was.
Like some people need to stayAmish that are coming to a
better understanding of thetruth for lack of a better term.
So that's kind of where I was Imight almost say stuck for a
couple of years, and I alwayskind of felt like God would show
me if or when it's time to stepout.
(24:26):
And I don't remember thedetails of this, but I just
remember, you know, kind ofprocessing things and as it
would get more real to me whereI like question these things, I
came to a point where I realizedthat the time is now and I'm
fighting it Because it's notsomething, that it's a hard
(24:46):
transition for most of us.
So yeah, just kind of coming toa point of realizing that the
Lord is showing me this and itis time to step out, and I'm
kind of making excuses andfinding all these reasons why I
don't think the time is yetright, yeah, and isn't that the
case with most things, probably,when we feel like this is what
(25:08):
we need to do and we keepstalling because there's just
certain things that hold us back.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Maybe it's just the reframing, and it takes courage
to take that leap because it issuch a big step, right From the
way that you knew life and it'sall you ever known, to forging a
new path.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Right, and I've had this conversation with a close
friend of mine and he's it'skind of like, you know, as when
I was still a member of theAmish church.
You know it didn't happen asmuch then as it's happening now,
but you know, for as long as Iremember there would be people
that were leaving, and so thelast number of years that I was
(25:49):
still Amish, you know I wouldknow people that left and I'd be
.
You know, sometimes it's likeit's not a big surprise, not a
big deal, didn't question it atall, and yet when it came to
being myself, it was like, isthis really okay?
Like am I going to regret this?
(26:09):
Because it is.
It's a big step, and I don'tknow that it would necessarily
be something where it's like youcan't turn back from, but it
feels that way.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
So as long as it was other people doing it, it was
like, yep, makes sense, totallyget it, don't, you know?
Just supporting them.
But when it actually came tobeing myself and making that
decision, it was like, is thisreally okay?
Am I going to regret this?
But I would actually say it'sprobably been one of the hardest
(26:45):
decisions that I've ever madeand one of the best, and not
because I don't regret growingup Amish.
There's a lot of things that Ivalue highly, and most of my
family is still Amish, and Iwould consider them to be in a
very good place spiritually forthe most part, and they may
continue to be Amish for therest of their lives, or they may
(27:07):
not.
It's not really what matters.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
So, yeah, it's a journey and as you were
transitioning or seeing thosedifferent questions that you
said came up over the years.
This is a gradual process.
What were some of the thingsthat felt like was just just
couldn't handle anymore?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
That was sitting in church on a Sunday morning and
hearing our ministers talk aboutrules and talk about the
importance of staying Amish andtalk about things like that
(27:49):
rather than preaching the gospel.
The more that I learned to knowthe truth, the more that
actually made me sick, like justhearing people stuck in that
religious bondage, and like it'snot all of them, and that's why
some of this stuff is so hardto describe, because, you know,
(28:12):
in the Amish community today youhave everything.
I mean we're not to judge people, right, I don't know what's in
someone's heart, but based onobservations and based on seeing
fruit from people's lives, I'mgoing to say there's people that
are anywhere from born-againbelievers on fire for the Lord,
just in a really good placespiritually, all the way to
(28:35):
people that are really stuck indarkness and a lot of I don't
even know what you call it justreligious bondage.
And again, I'm not here to judgepeople, but based on their
fruit, they don't know the Lord,they'll read the Bible.
They don't know the Lord,they'll read the Bible.
(28:58):
They pick out the things thatthere becomes more of an
emphasis on a traditional thingand on the way, a human thing or
a religious thing maybe wherewe can almost make ourselves
(29:19):
believe we're more righteous ora better person because we
sacrifice, like we don't havethis or we don't drive cars or
we don't do this.
And yeah, it's a very, it'ssuch a broad topic.
Yeah, yeah, it's a very, it'ssuch a broad topic.
There's such a variety ofpeople within what is known
(29:42):
today as the Amish church thatit's really hard to even
describe some of them.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, so that was one of the things that really
bothered you is just theconsistent shoving of,
essentially, rules andregulations versus to the Bible,
or was there something else,too, that was stood out to you,
that you felt like I just don'tagree with this.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
I think that would be the main one I remember well.
No, another version of thatwould be like I felt like I was
being very restricted and notbeing able to be who God is
calling me to be.
I mean, I was in business, youknow fairly young and you know
(30:33):
even the things with like, justlike the traveling to Nicaragua
on the mission trips when I wasstill Amish.
We flew, we flew down there andit wasn't something that I
really got in trouble for.
Nobody, really nobody, didanything about it.
But it felt like you're kind ofalways looking over your
shoulder and hoping that no oneis going to complain to your
(30:56):
ministers or something like that.
So just the thing of like,having to almost like secretly
not secretly, but I just didn'tfeel totally liberated to dawn
these things, even the things ofthe prison ministry I don't
know if you ever heard this ornot, but that's actually
traditionally very muchdiscouraged in the culture.
(31:18):
Why is that?
There's no good explanation forit.
I feel like I do have a bit ofan understanding of why it is
and I don't know if this willmake sense to people or not, but
I'll try to just briefly share.
So, growing up in the Amishculture it's generally, it's
very much emphasized that if youjoin the church it's wrong, if
(31:45):
you leave, right.
So there's this very strongteaching and belief around that
and so if that's what youbelieve, then you almost have to
believe that anything thatwould lead someone to leaving
(32:06):
would be wrong.
So, example I grew up, I joinedthe Amish church and now I'm
starting to do prison ministry,I'm starting to do mission trips
and my eyes are being opened tomore things and in my mind I am
, you know, seeing the truth,I'm finding freedom.
(32:27):
But to someone that reallybelieves that you can never
leave if you join, then thatbecomes a thing of like okay,
well, that must be the problem.
You know, if he did this, Imean something as simple.
I don't know if you've heard ofthis or not, but this is still
a thing in the community todaywhere a lot of churches won't
(32:48):
really allow their members tohave Bible studies.
And it sounds bizarre.
It's like how can a church likea Bible-based, a
Bible-believing church, like howcan you not allow your members
to study the Bible?
And again, it's because whenpeople really start studying,
really start understanding andcome to a revelation of the
(33:08):
truth, that sometimes will leadsomeone to choose to leave the
church and so that gets lookedat as that must be a problem,
because they're leaving andleaving is wrong.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, because essentiallythere is.
From what I'm hearing isthere's a restriction, that is,
you know you want to upkeep inorder to remain this way of life
, and if you take that away andexpose people to the truth, then
their eyes will be open.
They'll start to see thingsdifferently.
(33:41):
Yeah yeah, that's reallyinteresting.
So at what point did youtransition?
How did you make that finalleap?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So I so, yeah, so during a lot of this time, you
know, I was, I was a businessowner and I would be hiring
someone you know to to be mydriver, go around, look at
properties, all of that stuffInconvenient and yet not totally
inefficient because it allowedme to do other things when I was
(34:14):
, you know, on the road and soforth me to do other things when
I was, you know, on the roadand so forth.
But as I, as that journey kindof progressed, it became more
and more obvious to me thatthere's this restriction, that
I'm kind of being just squelcheddown by not being able to drive
right.
And so it happens not a ton,but it does happen a fair amount
(34:39):
.
In the Amish community, wherepeople actually have their
driver's license and people justdon't know about it, you know,
maybe they'll drive when they goout of the county or something
like that, I had a friend thatused to sometimes get a rental
over the weekend and just drivethe car over the weekend, over
the weekend, and just drive thecar over the weekend.
So I got to a point where Irealized that, look, I'm not
(35:02):
sure what I'm doing, but I'mgoing to get my driver's license
because I was just sick andtired of not being able to.
I was so tired of not beingable to do what I wanted to do
and again it was about being whoI felt like God was calling me
to be.
So I started that process, gotmy driver's license, started
driving a bit.
And then it was like this sucks, like I'm always like hoping no
one would see me because I wasdriving some locally in town and
(35:23):
stuff.
So as I kind of went down thatpath, got my license, started
driving some, it was like I needto figure out it's one way or
another here.
So I talked to the bishop inour church about it and that
started the pretty quicktransition of just making the
(35:44):
decision that I'm not going tobe a member anymore.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Was he not in agreement with your transition
or not in agreement with havinga license and driving?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
My journey with that was probably quite a bit
different and, I'm going to say,not as challenging as it is for
many people because I hadalready had a little bit of
these conversations with mybishop around some of the things
, and he was also a man that hadseen a lot in his life and he
was more open.
(36:16):
I wouldn't say he wassupportive of someone choosing
to step out, but he was moreopen to it, so that made the
transition a lot easier for me.
It wasn't the most comfortablething to do, but just the fact
that I felt the freedom to goand talk to him about it.
I was very grateful for that.
That's not something that mostpeople would do based on who
(36:39):
their leaders are, so he wasreally the first one that I went
to and I said, hey, here'swhere I'm at, I'm still a member
.
I started driving and I'm notsure what to do and also I don't
know if this will make sense toyou or not, but every twice a
year in the Amish church youhave what would be known as kind
(37:06):
of the term of.
It would kind of be like councilmeeting, I guess, where they
kind of go over all the rulesand everything, and then the
next time at church is when wehave communion.
And it was kind of this timewhere, like, if someone is, you
know, about to step out, or ifsomeone is not following the
rules or something, they wereforced to like not participate
(37:29):
in communion.
And so it was coming up to thattime of the year and that's why
it was like I'm going to gotalk to him, it's like I'm okay
with still coming to church, butlike here's where I'm at and
I'm like I'm not sure what to do.
And he actually was veryhelpful and he I don't know if I
would say he advised me to likestep out, but he kind of gave
(37:52):
me the clarity and kind of gaveme the freedom to do that
without actually saying it, ifthat makes sense.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, so you weren't shunned for leaving then.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Well, that's another broad thing.
So, yeah, based on just how thesystem works, there's still,
like this process that needs tohappen.
So officially I was, but it wasdone a bit differently than
what it's been done for somepeople and the only way.
(38:25):
The only reason that he didwhat he did is just because it's
a process.
It's like it's just part ofthis process which is kind of
impossible to even describe.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And what does that look like?
The shunning part.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
It's another thing that's very different in
different communities and all ofthat, but in general, if
someone is excommunicated, ifsomeone chooses to step out
after being a member, one of thebiggest things is you're not
supposed to drive with them,you're not supposed to drive in
(39:00):
their, you're not supposed toride in their vehicle.
Some of the more ridiculousones, in my opinion, are I mean,
I don't know if you've heard ofthis or not, but you're not
supposed to eat with someoneLike my parents to this day this
is not the easiest thing totalk about but my parents to
(39:22):
this day.
If I go to their house for ameal, they will set up a second
table that's like a coupleinches away from their table and
we'll sit there and have a mealtogether like a couple inches
away from their table and we'llsit there and have a meal
together.
It's something that's takenvery much out of context, out of
the Bible, about not eatingwith sinners.
I think it's in 1 Corinthians 5.
(39:43):
I think I'm not sure.
So that's a big one.
That's actually a very broadcultural thing.
And then another one that mostpeople, or some people, wouldn't
know about as much, and I haveno idea where this comes from um
.
For me, as a person that hasbeen you know, quote
excommunicated, if I'm workingalongside someone that is amish,
(40:08):
I'm not supposed to hand themsomething like if I'd be working
alongside someone, I'm notsupposed to hand them something
like if I'd be working alongsidesomeone.
I'm not supposed to hand them atool.
I'm supposed to set it down andthen they can pick it up.
It's totally absurd.
I don't know where it comesfrom, um, and that is one of the
rules that I would say thatdoesn't really get enforced, um
(40:30):
as much.
But yeah, those are some of thethings that in general, the
Amish, like the leaders, wouldtell their members when someone
gets excommunicated, that theseare the things you can't do.
You can't drive with them, youcan't eat at the same table, you
know all of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
It's hard to understand.
Was that pretty painful for youto know that you can no longer
participate at the dinner tablewith your family?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
So the most difficult thing for me, and still today,
is just seeing that they arebeing restricted by those rules.
So the traditional method ofshunning and I have some friends
that this would be a realityfor them where they're not even
invited to family functions,they're not invited to a family
(41:20):
Christmas dinner, they're likevery, very much shunned by the,
I guess the meaning of the word.
I never experienced that andI'm very grateful for that.
I was always invited to familygatherings and all of my
siblings actually are verysupportive of me.
It would only be my parentsthat have taken a more
(41:41):
traditional approach to notdriving with me and not eating
at the same table and some ofthose things.
So, yes, very difficult, butthe most difficult thing is just
wishing that they could bereleased from that bondage or
that belief, because I know it'snot something that they really
want to do.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
They just believe that they have to do it and
that's the hardest thing Inorder not to be punished by
their church, right, yeah, or?
Speaker 2 (42:09):
even in order to have a clear conscience where it's
like you.
Just you know you're notallowed to do these things and,
yeah, that's the hardest thingfor me.
I would just want to see themreleased from that false belief.
Yeah, wow, but I am verygrateful for the relationship
that I do have with them,because I think you would agree
(42:31):
if someone invites you intotheir home, cooks a meal for you
, sits down even if the table isthree inches away.
That's not how you shun someone, you know.
That's not, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah, essentially you are invited back, but they're
saying, hey, we still have tofollow by these rules, and this
is what we're doing in order tomake that distinction.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Yeah, right, and so you are in real estate right now
.
You're a real estate investorand you also have a community
that you teach onentrepreneurship and real estate
.
I'd love for you to get intowhat Jake Beiler's up to now and
what your life looks likeThings that are lighting you up.
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Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, so I get really excited talking about this.
So here we go.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
You're like, this is the fun part.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
No, I mean, I love talking about you know, the
Amish stuff too, but real estateis something that's been a
passion of mine.
So somebody gets me startedtalking about this, but I can go
for a while.
And so somebody gets me startedtalking about this, but I can
go for a while.
So I bought my first rentalproperty.
I think it's actually about 18years ago now and that was when
(44:28):
I was still working a full-timejob but transitioned out of that
a couple years later andstarted buying some rental
properties, buying flipproperties, what would be
commonly known as flippingproperties buying a rundown
property, fixing it up, sellingit.
So I did that for a number ofyears on a fairly small scale.
I had one employee for a while,but I did a portfolio of rental
(44:55):
properties, not so muchflipping anymore, more focused
on, like the passive income, own, a couple of short term rentals
, more commonly known as Airbnbs.
And the meeting or the teachingthing that you referred to,
that's a monthly meetup, monthlymeeting that I host.
(45:17):
We generally get speakers in ona broad range of topics.
That's a group that I became apart of, actually was part of,
when the group started up,probably 12 years ago, and then
about six, seven years ago Istarted leading the group, kind
of being the host of the group,and it's a great community of
(45:40):
people Varies quite a bit, but100 to 150 people at a meeting,
just people coming to learn andto network, and so it's
something that's been veryrewarding.
It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work alwaysfinding speakers, managing all
of that, but it's been reallyfun.
And then the newest thing for mein the realm of investing was
(46:04):
getting my real estate license.
So around the middle of lastyear I got my license, and so
now I get more excited abouthelping young guys buy their
first investment property,helping people, you know, buy
their home, sell their home.
To me that's the newest andmost exciting thing.
I certainly haven't, Icertainly don't know at all, but
(46:26):
I have learned a lot the last15 plus years, and to be able to
help other people with what Ihave learned and to help other
people, you know, hopefully on ajourney of, you know, financial
freedom, which is what it didfor me, that gets me excited.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah, you're really passionate about financial
freedom I am, and helping people.
Yeah, I can just see you'rejust like you lit up when you
were saying that You're soexcited about it and in that
monthly meeting.
So it's almost like amastermind right For a real
estate entrepreneurship.
Is it open to the public?
Is there a membership fee?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (47:06):
So it is an open group.
Anyone can come.
There's a lot of these groupsaround actually, we're probably
one of the larger ones butthere's a.
There's a lot of these groupsaround actually, we're probably
one of the larger ones butthere's a number of these groups
around.
Usually they're on meetupcom.
We've just not chosen to dothat.
The idea behind the group whenit started was just to provide
education for the community, notstrictly for the paying
(47:28):
community, but that's kind ofwhere the need was seen.
People just were, you know,were going out and buying stuff
that didn't make sense and theywere paying way too much.
So that's kind of how themeeting started.
It has progressed more intowhat I would call a higher value
networking and a bit of well, Imean for me personally since I
(47:52):
started hosting the meeting andgetting the speakers.
I do enjoy having some verypractical teaching how to, but
what I believe is actually moreimportant is things like
personal development and thingslike you know not only how to do
this, but why do you want to dothis and kind of the bigger why
(48:13):
behind that.
So that's what I get reallyexcited about.
The how-to is actually prettyeasy.
You can read tons of books,tons of podcasts.
The how-to is really not thathard, but just getting around a
group of growth-oriented peoplelooking to get out and solve
problems whether that's in thereal estate world or whatever
(48:37):
that's really a lot of thecontent that we have at our
meeting now.
Just for example, in the lastyear or two, probably one of the
most off-topic speakers that wehad that had nothing to do with
real estate was a judge by thename of Jeffrey Conrad from the
(48:58):
Lancaster County Court of CommonPleas, and the reason that I
invited, or the reason that Iwent after him to see if he
would speak, is because I hadgotten to know him through a
mutual friend and I was just soblown away.
This guy is a very strongChristian man.
Like I said, he works as ajudge in the Lancaster County
Courthouse, gets into some crazysituations and relies really
(49:22):
heavily on the Lord to providewisdom in some of those
decisions he has to make.
So one of my main reasons forwanting to invite someone like
that in was just because howmuch it had impacted me and I
felt like it would be helpfulfor the community to hear
someone like that.
And then, yeah, just a verybroad range.
(49:47):
Usually it has something to dowith real estate or business in
some way.
To do with real estate orbusiness in some way.
But we've come, we have movedaway from the very specific like
how to buy your first rental orhow to flip a house more, and
kind of gotten into the more ofa broader range of teaching and
inspiration.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yeah, and so a lot of people from the Amish community
attend these meetings.
Is that correct?
Yeah, I would say probably overhalf.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
It might even be 70% from the Plain community, but
it's very open for whoever wantsto come.
It's a free meeting.
Nobody makes any money off ofit.
We have sponsors that pay forour rentals at Shady Maple and
myself and a few others thathelp to organize it.
It's just volunteer labor.
We just do it because we loveserving the community.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Wow, that's your way to give back.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yeah, and it's also.
This is not why I started doingit, but I have seen that it has
helped me to grow as a person,helped me to grow as a public
speaker.
I mean, it still freaks me outevery time, but I have gotten
more comfortable with you know,because every time I'm opening
the meeting, I'm introducing thespeaker, sometimes hosting a
(50:58):
panel discussion.
So I still have a ways to go,but I'm better than I used to be
, and even just the thing offorcing me to make connections,
to find speakers, to findspeakers, so I feel like it has
benefited me in ways that Iwouldn't have even known that it
(51:18):
would, just as I seek to servethe community and I mean, I love
getting into a room like thatas well, so it's just fun to be
a part of it.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
What I find significant about your story is
earlier you said that one ofyour fears of not leaving was
that you didn't want to loseyour influence and the impact
that you had on your community.
Yet now that you left, you'remaking a greater impact by
continuing to sow back into thatcommunity, educating them,
(51:48):
equipping them, and you're doingthat voluntarily.
You're not getting paid for it,which is so mind-blowing from a
business perspective right,because it's not something that
you're financially benefitingoff.
You're doing it as a way to tolove and serve your community,
which is so beautiful yeah now,thank you for that, and you
(52:08):
brought up a good point there.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
That I'm glad you did , because it just reminded me of
something Right around the timethat I was making the
transition out of the Amishchurch is when I was being asked
to actually lead this group andI was hesitant.
So I approached a couple ofclose friends that attend the
(52:30):
meeting that are Amish and Isaid, hey, here's where I'm at,
here's the transition that I'mmaking.
I feel like maybe it would be abetter time for me to just kind
of step back into the shadowsand not be the face of the
meeting, right, and I talked totwo or three people and they
both, they all encouraged me togo for it and it's been so
(52:50):
interesting.
I've told many people this and,like I mentioned earlier, there
was a time when I was stillAmish that I was hesitant to
step out because I was afraid Iwould lose my influence that had
kind of been entrusted to me.
Well, the opposite is actuallywhat happened.
(53:11):
I don't know that I can explainit.
I think I might kind of knowhow this works, but what I do
know for sure is that myinfluence actually grew since I
chose to step out the best waythat I could describe it, and I
don't know if this is true ornot.
I think it allowed me to justbecome more authentic and be who
(53:33):
I'm called to be Again.
Not that I'm perfect in any way, but it did allow me to kind of
break out of something andexperience a level of freedom
that I hadn't before, and Ithink people are drawn to that.
That's the best way that Icould describe it.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
That's the best way that I could describe it.
I love your story, jake it'sjust so beautiful, and how you
gradually came to yourauthenticity, and thank you so
much for sharing your story.
We're going to wrap up theinterview with the last few
questions of what is the bravestthing that Jake's ever done so
(54:14):
this is going to sound way tooscripted.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
What is the bravest thing that Jake's ever done?
So this is going to sound waytoo scripted, but I would have
to say just choosing to leavethe Amish and step out of the
community.
I mean, there's other thingsthat you know probably could
also fit the category.
But yeah, it's a big deal, youknow, and not even as I would
say.
I'm not going to say it waseasier, I'm going to say it was
(54:35):
less difficult for me thanprobably for many people, people
that do it as a family, soforth.
You know much more dynamics, soI would say it wasn't as
traumatic for me as it has beenfor many people, but it's still.
It's a big deal, it's a bigtransition and it took some
courage.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Yeah, what is the best advice that someone gave
you?
Speaker 2 (55:01):
The best advice.
So I don't know that I couldpeg it down to specific advice,
but I would have to point backto when I was.
I think I was 28 years old whenI chose to quit my full-time
job and step out into the worldof investing and flipping houses
(55:22):
.
Again, I'm not sure what thespecific advice was that I was
getting over that time, but Iknow there was many people that
thought I'm crazy.
You know this would have beenwas it 2008?
Getting over that time?
But I know there was manypeople that thought I'm crazy.
You know this would have been.
Was it 2008?
I'm trying to do some quick mathhere, but it was at a time
where people questioned, like Iknow some people doubted what I
(55:44):
was doing, had a steady jobmaking you know what would have
been known as decent money andbut yeah, that was a big like.
That's something that I lookback to and I know it's not for
everyone.
You know some people choose tobe employees for their whole
career and there's absolutelynothing wrong with that.
It's just not what I wasdesigned to do.
(56:04):
So taking that step of startinga business and investing is
something that I'm very gratefulfor.
Yeah, and what are two to threebooks that impacted your life
that were pretty pivotal?
There's so many and every timesomeone asks this question we
tend to think more of the recentbooks that we've read or
(56:26):
something like that.
So there could be a whole longlist If I had to pick just a few
.
I mean, obviously the Bible hasto be at the top of the list.
There's just something I'mactually getting so much, I'm
having so much fun readingthrough the Bible this year in a
chronological Bible, so thathas to be at the top of the list
(56:47):
.
Probably one of my top books onjust like personal development,
daily disciplines, those type ofthings are a book called the
Slight Edge by Jeff Olson.
Absolutely everyone should readit.
It's just an amazing book.
And then another one, be moreon the spiritual side of things,
(57:10):
if you will.
It's a thin book, it's a quickread.
It's called Holy Moments, Ithink.
It's by Matthew Kelly.
A very, very quick read andvery impactful book.
Talks a lot about just how weinteract with people on a daily
basis and things like that.
It's a really good read.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
Awesome.
Is there anything that you'dlike to add that I haven't asked
you?
Perhaps, or anything you'd liketo share that we haven't
touched on yet?
Speaker 2 (57:42):
So just kind of going back to our conversation about
how things are in the Amishcommunity, and we didn't talk
about this a lot specifically,but there's generally just a lot
of control and to some degree,you know, suppression in a
religious circle like that.
(58:02):
And so one of the things that Ifound quite interesting was,
you know, four years ago,whenever it was we went through
COVID, you know, four years ago,whenever it was we went through
COVID, it dawned on me that thegovernment is using the exact
same thing to control people.
That generally happens in areligious setting.
(58:23):
And I mean, this is myperspective.
You know, maybe I'm wrong onthis, but it's two things and
it's pretty powerful, powerful.
So if you want to controlpeople, you can be very
effective in controlling them byinstilling fear into them and
by either giving them a lack ofinformation or the wrong
(58:45):
information.
And again, this is kind of ablanket statement, this is not
true for every church district,it's not true across the board,
but generally that system isheld together by instilling fear
into people, and that could befear of losing community, fear
(59:05):
of being excommunicated, fear ofgoing to hell, quite frankly.
And the lack of information orthe wrong information is just,
you know, I mean here's kind ofa quick side note but I had a
conversation with a young Amishguy not too long ago where he's
gone through you know the samething that I went through seven,
(59:27):
eight years ago, and he hadwent on a mission trip and his
ministers were coming to see himand talk to him about this,
because this is not something hewas supposed to do.
And they told him that we aresupposed to let our lights shine
and not make our lights shine.
And the only way you can comeup with that is by having a
(59:51):
pre-existing belief aboutsomething and then form-fitting
it to something that you'refinding in Scripture.
That's the only way you come upwith that.
So in their minds it's like,yes, we're supposed to let our
lights shine, because that'swhat the Bible says, but we're
not supposed to make our lightsshine and go other places to do
it.
And again, I don't get upset atthose people.
(01:00:15):
It's the religious spirit, it'sjust, it is what it is.
Um, but back to where I wasgoing with that about.
You know, through covid in mymind, the government did the
exact same thing with gettingpeople to do what they did
instilling fear into people andeither giving them a lack of
information or just the wronginformation, and it was very
(01:00:38):
effective for a while.
Yeah, so I think that's theonly other thing.
I don't think I have anythingelse.
Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Well, jake, thank you so much for your time and for
having the courage to share yourstory.
I know this is going to inspirepeople wherever they're
listening to, so thank you.
It's been an honor to hear it.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Thanks so much.
Thank you for listening to theOnce we Dare podcast.
It is an honor to share theseencouraging stories with you.
If you enjoy the show, I wouldlove for you to tell your
(01:01:10):
friends.
Leave us a reviewer rating andsubscribe to wherever you listen
to podcasts, because this helpsothers discover the show.
You can find me on my website,svekapapacom.
The Amish are not for smoking right.
They consider smoking a sin.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Not true.
Really, you might be surprisedto hear this, but the more.
I don't know if you're familiarwith these terms, but there's
kind of what's known as the moreliberal Amish and the more
conservative Amish.
Okay, I know those two wordsare very broad terms, but what I
would consider the moreconservative Amish are the ones
(00:26):
generally in southern LancasterCounty and, interestingly enough
, those that are more harsh oncell phones, more harsh on all
of the other rules, are actuallythe bigger tobacco users and
tobacco farmers.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Hey friends, welcome to the Ones who Dared podcast,
where stories of courage areelevated.
I'm your host, Becca, and everyother week you'll hear
interviews from inspiring people.
My hope is that you will leaveencouraged.
I'm so glad you're here, JakeBeiler.
(01:06):
Welcome to the Once Videopodcast.
I am so excited to have you inthe studio today.
I'm honored and excited to behere.
Thanks for having me.
So this series, as you know,Leaving Amish is about what is
it like to be an Amish and justyour experience from that.
People are really curious ofwhat is the life of an Amish and
, essentially, what prompted youto leave and who you are today.
(01:30):
What are you up to today?
So I'd like to get started byfinding out what does Amish mean
to you?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Wow, it's a loaded question.
So obviously, growing up in theculture, you know, I think this
is true for all of us, nomatter how we grow up,
especially as a kid, growing upjust whatever you have is normal
to you.
You know.
Whether that's even that couldbe a broad range of things, you
know.
So growing up as an Amish kid,going to school, going to, you
(02:00):
know, one room schoolhouse,walking to school, those things
were all normal.
A lot has changed in the Amishcommunity and even in like.
Gone to school, gone to, youknow, one room schoolhouse,
walking to school, those thingswere all normal.
A lot has changed in the Amishcommunity and even in like my
family that's still Amish in thelast, you know, 10, 20, 30
years.
But back when I was a kidgrowing up, you know we wanted
to use a telephone.
We'd be walking up to ourneighbors to use the telephone.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
And were your neighbors Amish?
No, no, okay, so I just want topause you on the telephone
thing, because I do have afollow-up question on that.
Is it true that the Amisharen't allowed to have a
telephone within their is it thehouse?
But they are allowed to have itoutside their house, on their
property.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Generally the way it would work in our community is
they?
Well, this is changing too, butwhat has been very normal the
last you know, 10, 20 years, iswhat was known as like a phone
shanty.
It's like this little four byfour, like a literally four foot
by four foot shed outside of abuilding where your phone line
is run into and that's whereyour phone is.
(03:02):
Some people had a ringer on theoutside so that you could kind
of hear it from you know adistance.
Um, um, maybe you'd put alittle heater in in the winter
time if you're going to be infor any length of time.
Um, and it's one of those thingsthat over the years, like for
us, you know, at first, when wehad a phone shanty, it was, like
you know, we had to walk, youknow, across the field to get
(03:25):
there because it was at anotherAmish neighbor's property that
we shared.
So very, very interesting tothink about that, compared to
the way most of us operate now,including myself, where you know
you have your phone with youall the time.
Yeah, like if I would haveforgot my phone coming here, I
mean I wouldn't have camebecause I wouldn't have been
(03:45):
able to find the place.
So it's very interestingknowing that I grew up like that
and yet how dependent that I amon phone and technology in
general.
Now it's a big switch.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Wow, yeah.
So what was your day-to-daylike?
Growing up as a kid, you saidyou walked to school.
You were in one singleclassroom.
What were some of yourresponsibilities, or what was
your day-to-day like?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So I grew up on a 65-acre dairy farm so we had 30
to 40 dairy cows, got up in themorning to help milk the cows
before I went to school, andfield work.
You're farming corn hay and youknow field work.
You know you're farming cornhay, all those crops with horses
.
So we had eight workhorses andit's a grind.
You know when it's haymakingtime or time to put corn away.
I remember you know days,summertime, when school was out,
(04:38):
you know we'd be getting upmilking the cows in the morning,
throwing the harnesses therather sweaty and smelly
harnesses on these workhorses,you know, before breakfast so we
could go in, have breakfast,come back out, hitch up the
horses to go, you know, plow thefields or mow hay or bill hay,
all of those things.
You know.
(04:58):
It's just, it was normal lifeand it would be really, really
hard.
Like, as much as I value thatand probably for the most part
enjoyed it, I would not want togo back to that.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, and how old are you when you had to take part
in family chore responsibilities?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I mean that varies but it's pretty young because
you grow up in it and you know Iwas probably, I was probably I
don't remember but oftentimes,as maybe a three or
four-year-old kid, you're outlike on the hay wagon when
you're baling hay.
You know you get involved froma very early age.
You know around a farm there'salways chores, maybe it's you
(05:42):
know, putting fresh water outfor the calves or feeding the
calves.
There's things that you can doat a pretty early age.
So I don't remember how old Iwas, but you get involved pretty
young when you grow up on afamily farm.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, and would you credit some of that hard work
ethic to your success in thereal estate investment now and
what you do?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, absolutely, because you just grow up in a.
I think there's also kind ofthis.
I don't know how you explain it, but when you grow up on a
family farm, it's like you knowwhen it's time to bale hay, when
it's time to put the corn away,and maybe it's going to rain
tomorrow.
It's like all hands on deck,like we got to make this happen,
(06:22):
and so I do think that workethic just being immersed in
that growing up it just becamenormal.
It's like you do what you needto do, like the thought of
quitting at five o'clock becauseit's time to quit is not even
on the board, because you knowwe need to get the work done.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, so it built some tenacity, resilience and
perseverance in you where you'reable to kind of go and grind,
and that's one positive thingright that transferred over into
your adult life, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
No, that is something that I'm grateful for, but
along those lines, as with manythings in life, it can also be
taken too far.
You know, there's somethingabout being a workaholic and
just not knowing how to stopworking, and I mean work can
become an idol.
Work is actually something.
It took me a long time till Ifelt like I really realized this
(07:18):
, but work is something that wasa commandment from God in the
garden before the fall right.
It's a God-given duty, and Ithink that is why we get so much
fulfillment out of a good, hardday's work.
But anything like that that Godcreated, the enemy also tries to
use for his purposes.
(07:39):
So work can very much become anidol, in my opinion, and it can
be used to drown out otherthings in life.
It can be used to drown out,you know, pain, drama, where
it's like we're just working allday, every day, and it's all
that we think about.
Right, and you're kind ofhiding behind this thing.
That doesn't look like anaddiction or an idol, because
(08:01):
you know, if you're ahardworking person, it's like,
wow, it's admirable.
Yeah, exactly.
So.
That is the flip side of it,and I, you know, I do see some
of that in our culture as well.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, is that something that you personally
had to kind of work through andreframe for yourself?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I certainly don't think that I was unaffected by
that, but just the way that I'mwired, I don't think it was as
big of a struggle for me becauseI don't really like.
I always like to tell people.
When people talk about theLancaster County rat race, I'll
just say, well, I unsubscribedfrom the rat race, I'm not
(08:37):
playing that game, yeah, butit's certainly not that I'm
unaffected by it, because it isa thing.
You just work late if you needto do something.
But yeah, again, just becauseof my personality and the way
that I'm wired, I'm not ascompetitive by nature.
So I don't feel like it was, asit's not as big of a struggle
(08:57):
for me as maybe for some people.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, I see.
And what order of the Amish didyour family belong to?
The old order, the old order,amish the main.
So is that order of the Amishdid your family belong to?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
The old order.
The old order, Amish the main.
So is that more of the stricterone?
It's really the only ones thatyou see around Lancaster County.
I mean there was, was it backin the 70s or something?
There was what they called anew order, that kind of split
off, but they are pretty muchnon-existent anymore.
So yeah, when you see an Amishperson in Lancaster County, it's
(09:26):
an older Amish.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I got you and what would you say are some of the
rules the Amish have that'sdifferent from the outside
society.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
So I mean, one of the biggest ones is just the fact
that they don't drive vehicles.
You know, no electricity isanother one, although that is
changing.
I mean you probably see moreand more solar panels, people
trying to find creative ways,but as a general rule that's a
(09:59):
big one for the Amish, noelectricity.
And then there's all kinds ofrules that are like, depending
on what community, evendepending on what church
district within that community,it gets so complicated.
As a rule they're not supposedto have technology.
You know, computers,smartphones, things like that.
(10:21):
But you know, in like probablyall of my siblings that are
still Amish have smartphones.
So it's becoming a more andmore common thing.
It's not really openly acceptedwhere they're saying, hey, you
can have this now, but it's justbecome more accepted in parts
(10:41):
of the community, not in theentire community accepted in
parts of the community, not inthe entire community.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
So with the smartphone cell phone use, is it
?
Is there?
Do they set separate specificguidelines for using that?
Like, if your siblings aren'thome, do they have to put it
away at a certain place?
Is there any rules around thator is that like family specific?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
There's not because you can't really, because in
general, they're not openlyallowed, right?
So you can't make rules aroundsomething that you're not
allowed to have.
Yeah, because if you're goingto say, hey, do this and do this
and do this with yoursmartphone, it's acknowledging
that they're kind of allowed.
So it's actually one of thethings that I feel would be very
(11:26):
beneficial and this stuff iscoming if there would be more
like training and accountability, because, like one of the
reasons multiple reasons, butone of the reasons why
smartphones would be frownedupon is just because of the
internet and the things that youcan access on there, which is a
real thing.
You thing I would agree withthat.
But how about we talk aboutsome training and some education
(11:49):
around those things rather thanpretend that they don't exist?
So if your children getsmartphones and they're hiding
them and they're only on themwhen they're in their bedroom
and nobody else is around, youcan see how that could lead to
some bad things.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
So I have a question about tobacco farming.
Their bedroom and nobody elseis around.
You can see how that could leadto some bad things.
So I have a question abouttobacco farming.
The Amish are not for smoking,right.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
They consider smoking a sin, not true?
You might be surprised to hearthis, but the more.
I don't know if you're familiarwith these terms, but there's
kind of what's known as the moreliberal Amish and the more
conservative Amish.
I know those two words are verybroad terms, but what I would
consider the more conservativeAmish are the ones generally in
(12:36):
southern Lancaster County and,interestingly enough, those that
are more harsh on cell phones,more harsh on all of the other
rules, are actually the biggertobacco users and tobacco
farmers.
It doesn't make any sense, it'sjust the way.
It's kind of a traditionalthing.
Tobacco used to be a big cashcrop and so it's just kind of
(13:00):
something that got handed down.
It's still a big cash crop forsome Amish farmers.
There's many of them in thearea that I live, which is more
in the northern part ofLancaster County that would not
farm it because they don'tbelieve in it.
But yeah, there's a lot ofAmish that use tobacco and, to
make that even a bit morecomplicated, they will smoke a
(13:24):
lot of like cigarettes and cigar.
Cigars, not cigarettes.
Like you can't, not the ones,not the.
When I was a kid it was usuallythe thing of like not, you're
not allowed to smoke the whiteones.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
It's bizarre so that's what you knew.
Yeah, smoke the white ones.
Yeah, yeah, wow so that is.
That is interesting because youknow, my perception and again
this is why we're having thisinterview is to clear up some of
this false beliefs orperceptions.
Right, you'll be working atclearing that up for a while
because there's a lot.
Yeah, and it just seems like youknow they're farming tobacco,
(14:00):
but yet you know they have avery conservative way of life,
that this is something that Iwould think would be frowned
upon, but you're saying, no,that's not really the case
inside the community.
So that's interesting.
I learned something new today,just a side note on that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
So there are, you know, churches that we would
generally consider to be moreprogressive.
You know different forms ofMennonite that you know they
would have electricity, theywould drive vehicles and do all
of that.
Some of those are very hardagainst tobacco and so I have
heard of situations where someof those people become the quote
(14:36):
drivers for the Amish people.
Right, because the Amish don'tdrive, so they need drivers to
take them places.
They need drivers like a truckand a trailer to take their
tobacco to the tobacco auctionor wherever they take it.
But some of these Mennonitesthat would be their drivers
would not even haul the tobaccobecause they have that hard
(14:57):
convictions against the tobacco.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Wow, it's weird, that is so wild.
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.
And the other thing that isconfusing to me as an outsider
and I brought this up with Marytoo is that if you're not
allowed to use technology, whyare you allowed to use outside
technology, such as hiring adriver, if you can't drive your
own car?
Where is the differentiator?
(15:21):
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, I don't think there's a very good answer for
that.
I believe probably the bestexplanation is if you are able
to, if you drive yourself, youcan go wherever you want,
whenever you want, and there'sjust more.
There's no limitations, right,but there's this thought that
seems to be if you make it a bitharder to do, then you probably
(15:48):
won't.
I don't know, it really doesn'tmake sense.
It's just one of those rulesthat was put in place way back.
And, yeah, there are Amishcommunities I'm not sure where,
not in our area, but there areAmish communities I don't know
if you ever heard of, like theSchwartzentruber Amish.
I'm not sure where, not in ourarea, but there are Amish
communities I don't know if youever heard of, like the
Schwartzentruber Amish.
(16:08):
It's a last name and some ofthose communities will not allow
.
They don't travel on anythingexcept public transportation.
So you're talking Greyhoundbuses, trains they can't fly.
So there's only a few thingstrains and they can't fly.
So there's only a few things.
(16:29):
They would not allow theirpeople to actually drive with a
neighbor in a vehicle.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
That's interesting.
Yes, so many different,different experiences, and and I
think that's why I wanted tointerview multiple people is
because everybody has their ownstory, their own perspective,
the way that you experiencedyourself within the community.
So to get the variousperspectives is more wholesome
than you know, basing everythingon one person and their
experience.
Yeah, and is it true that youcan't have buttons on clothing,
(16:55):
or is that something that's um?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I mean so the the buttons are actually.
The buttons are what you'reallowed to have.
Snaps is something that in someareas is generally kind of
frowned upon.
I would say it's pretty much anone, like I would have forgot
about that one.
Yeah, but that is a thing insome communities, where they
would have buttons and not snapson their shirts and things like
(17:21):
that.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Okay, and then this is an interesting one Rubber
tires are prohibited in farmequipment.
Is that true?
Generally, yes.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, I remember as a kid we would usually have these
hay wagons, farm wagons that wewould use to do things in the
fields, and if you needed a newwagon you might go to an auction
and you bought one.
And if it was a, you know itwas if, depending on what for
auction it was unless anotherAmish person was selling one it
(17:49):
was probably going to haverubber tires on it.
So it was like, yeah, you mightuse it like that for a little
bit, but then you were expectedto get steel wheels put on it
that were more expensive andmore bumpy and more loud and
just, you know, I mean, therewas no.
Yeah, they're very annoying,but that's, it's a real thing,
(18:14):
yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, that's interesting.
And so the education with theAmish ends in eighth grade, is
that right?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
It's almost correct.
So there's what we call avocational class that goes after
eighth grade, which isbasically three hours a week.
So after I graduated eighthgrade I would have been 14 years
old.
And then you go to what we callthis vocational class until
you're 15.
Okay, and then the way thatthat was, I guess, accepted by
(18:43):
the state or whatever back whenit was set up, is because it's
generally thought of as you getyour education on the farm,
which is it's real, like that'swhere I would have learned a lot
of skills and things like that.
It's not as true anymore as itused to be, because there's not
near as many Amish growing up onfarms as it used to be, because
(19:05):
there's not near as many Amishgrowing up on farms.
But yeah, I only went to eighthgrade and then the three-hour
vocational school for anothercouple of months and that's all
the education I ever got.
That's all the school officialeducation I got.
I've been being educated eversince and I won't stop.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, yeah, we're always forever learners.
I feel like that's the way yougrow, is you never stop learning
, right?
So I want to get back to yourstory as you were growing up on
the dairy farm.
At what point did you feel likeyou didn't want to be an Amish
as an adult?
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(19:45):
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Speaker 2 (20:23):
So that would have been a very slow and a gradual
transition for me.
I'll just kind of go through itpretty quickly and then you can
ask questions on specifics ifyou want.
So when I was 16, I startedworking part-time for my uncle
in a woodworking shop.
So I worked for him, I thinkthree days a week when I first
(20:44):
started, and still involved onthe farm at home.
You know, I would sometimeshelp with field work in the
evening when I came home, whenthings were very busy.
Probably not until I was wellinto my 20s did I start to kind
of question some things aboutthe Amish, about the, the
religion, if you will.
Throughout my 20s I would havegot involved with some different
(21:09):
ministries.
I did actually.
No, probably not until I wasmore, maybe into my 30s.
So I worked the same job fromthe time I was 16 until I was 28
years old and then I just gotso bored and was so ready for
something else.
(21:29):
That that's when I started mybusiness and started investing
in real estate.
So at that point I would say Iwas probably still a fairly
committed Amish person.
And then into my 30s itprobably was that I really
started seeing some things,questioning things.
I traveled to Bluefields,nicaragua, for some mission
(21:52):
trips to serve alongside a or toserve with a church, not an
Amish church but another churchthat I was connected with
through some friends.
I got involved in some prisonministry.
There was a group of us thatkind of through a big
organization, but a group of usthat went to a prison out in
Western PA maximum securityprison, had just an incredible
(22:17):
experience out there getting toknow some inmates.
So through a lot of things likethat I just started questioning
things more and more and I knoweverybody loves this story of
where it's like something majorhappened.
You have this transformationalexperience.
All of that.
That's not my story.
(22:37):
It's just slowly, over time, Ijust started seeing things and
questioning things, startedseeing things and questioning
things.
My brother, just younger thanme, moved out of the area, left
the Amish before I did so.
Of course that was anotherthing where I was like you know,
I'm not sure why he's doingthis, but just all of these
(22:57):
things kind of get you to askingquestions.
You know reading scripture, andthen it was just very gradual.
It came to a point for mefinally where I would say it was
probably a couple-year processwhere I was considering it but I
(23:18):
didn't feel like I had clarity.
And there was also this what Inow realize was not true, but
there's kind of from the time onthat I started my business kind
of, you know, as a young adultI had I did have some influence
in the community and in somepeople around me, and so there
(23:41):
was this thing of like, well, ifI leave, I'm going to lose that
influence and as much as Icould clearly see that the
general Amish beliefs and stuffhas a lot of flaws, I still I
love the people.
So I'm like, well, if everyonethat's Amish kind of comes to a
better understanding of thetruth and just leaves, then the
(24:04):
Amish will never change right,like I was.
Like some people need to stayAmish that are coming to a
better understanding of thetruth for lack of a better term.
So that's kind of where I was Imight almost say stuck for a
couple of years, and I alwayskind of felt like God would show
me if or when it's time to stepout.
(24:26):
And I don't remember thedetails of this, but I just
remember, you know, kind ofprocessing things and as it
would get more real to me whereI like question these things, I
came to a point where I realizedthat the time is now and I'm
fighting it Because it's notsomething, that it's a hard
(24:46):
transition for most of us.
So yeah, just kind of coming toa point of realizing that the
Lord is showing me this and itis time to step out, and I'm
kind of making excuses andfinding all these reasons why I
don't think the time is yetright, yeah, and isn't that the
case with most things, probably,when we feel like this is what
(25:08):
we need to do and we keepstalling because there's just
certain things that hold us back.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Maybe it's just the reframing, and it takes courage
to take that leap because it issuch a big step, right From the
way that you knew life and it'sall you ever known, to forging a
new path.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Right, and I've had this conversation with a close
friend of mine and he's it'skind of like, you know, as when
I was still a member of theAmish church.
You know it didn't happen asmuch then as it's happening now,
but you know, for as long as Iremember there would be people
that were leaving, and so thelast number of years that I was
(25:49):
still Amish, you know I wouldknow people that left and I'd be
.
You know, sometimes it's likeit's not a big surprise, not a
big deal, didn't question it atall, and yet when it came to
being myself, it was like, isthis really okay?
Like am I going to regret this?
(26:09):
Because it is.
It's a big step, and I don'tknow that it would necessarily
be something where it's like youcan't turn back from, but it
feels that way.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
So as long as it was other people doing it, it was
like, yep, makes sense, totallyget it, don't, you know?
Just supporting them.
But when it actually came tobeing myself and making that
decision, it was like, is thisreally okay?
Am I going to regret this?
But I would actually say it'sprobably been one of the hardest
(26:45):
decisions that I've ever madeand one of the best, and not
because I don't regret growingup Amish.
There's a lot of things that Ivalue highly, and most of my
family is still Amish, and Iwould consider them to be in a
very good place spiritually forthe most part, and they may
continue to be Amish for therest of their lives, or they may
(27:07):
not.
It's not really what matters.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
So, yeah, it's a journey and as you were
transitioning or seeing thosedifferent questions that you
said came up over the years.
This is a gradual process.
What were some of the thingsthat felt like was just just
couldn't handle anymore?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
That was sitting in church on a Sunday morning and
hearing our ministers talk aboutrules and talk about the
importance of staying Amish andtalk about things like that
(27:49):
rather than preaching the gospel.
The more that I learned to knowthe truth, the more that
actually made me sick, like justhearing people stuck in that
religious bondage, and like it'snot all of them, and that's why
some of this stuff is so hardto describe, because, you know,
(28:12):
in the Amish community today youhave everything.
I mean we're not to judge people, right, I don't know what's in
someone's heart, but based onobservations and based on seeing
fruit from people's lives, I'mgoing to say there's people that
are anywhere from born-againbelievers on fire for the Lord,
just in a really good placespiritually, all the way to
(28:35):
people that are really stuck indarkness and a lot of I don't
even know what you call it justreligious bondage.
And again, I'm not here to judgepeople, but based on their
fruit, they don't know the Lord,they'll read the Bible.
They don't know the Lord,they'll read the Bible.
(28:58):
They pick out the things thatthere becomes more of an
emphasis on a traditional thingand on the way, a human thing or
a religious thing maybe wherewe can almost make ourselves
(29:19):
believe we're more righteous ora better person because we
sacrifice, like we don't havethis or we don't drive cars or
we don't do this.
And yeah, it's a very, it'ssuch a broad topic.
Yeah, yeah, it's a very, it'ssuch a broad topic.
There's such a variety ofpeople within what is known
(29:42):
today as the Amish church thatit's really hard to even
describe some of them.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, so that was one of the things that really
bothered you is just theconsistent shoving of,
essentially, rules andregulations versus to the Bible,
or was there something else,too, that was stood out to you,
that you felt like I just don'tagree with this.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
I think that would be the main one I remember well.
No, another version of thatwould be like I felt like I was
being very restricted and notbeing able to be who God is
calling me to be.
I mean, I was in business, youknow fairly young and you know
(30:33):
even the things with like, justlike the traveling to Nicaragua
on the mission trips when I wasstill Amish.
We flew, we flew down there andit wasn't something that I
really got in trouble for.
Nobody, really nobody, didanything about it.
But it felt like you're kind ofalways looking over your
shoulder and hoping that no oneis going to complain to your
(30:56):
ministers or something like that.
So just the thing of like,having to almost like secretly
not secretly, but I just didn'tfeel totally liberated to dawn
these things, even the things ofthe prison ministry I don't
know if you ever heard this ornot, but that's actually
traditionally very muchdiscouraged in the culture.
(31:18):
Why is that?
There's no good explanation forit.
I feel like I do have a bit ofan understanding of why it is
and I don't know if this willmake sense to people or not, but
I'll try to just briefly share.
So, growing up in the Amishculture it's generally, it's
very much emphasized that if youjoin the church it's wrong, if
(31:45):
you leave, right.
So there's this very strongteaching and belief around that
and so if that's what youbelieve, then you almost have to
believe that anything thatwould lead someone to leaving
(32:06):
would be wrong.
So, example I grew up, I joinedthe Amish church and now I'm
starting to do prison ministry,I'm starting to do mission trips
and my eyes are being opened tomore things and in my mind I am
, you know, seeing the truth,I'm finding freedom.
(32:27):
But to someone that reallybelieves that you can never
leave if you join, then thatbecomes a thing of like okay,
well, that must be the problem.
You know, if he did this, Imean something as simple.
I don't know if you've heard ofthis or not, but this is still
a thing in the community todaywhere a lot of churches won't
(32:48):
really allow their members tohave Bible studies.
And it sounds bizarre.
It's like how can a church likea Bible-based, a
Bible-believing church, like howcan you not allow your members
to study the Bible?
And again, it's because whenpeople really start studying,
really start understanding andcome to a revelation of the
(33:08):
truth, that sometimes will leadsomeone to choose to leave the
church and so that gets lookedat as that must be a problem,
because they're leaving andleaving is wrong.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, because essentiallythere is.
From what I'm hearing isthere's a restriction, that is,
you know you want to upkeep inorder to remain this way of life
, and if you take that away andexpose people to the truth, then
their eyes will be open.
They'll start to see thingsdifferently.
(33:41):
Yeah yeah, that's reallyinteresting.
So at what point did youtransition?
How did you make that finalleap?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So I so, yeah, so during a lot of this time, you
know, I was, I was a businessowner and I would be hiring
someone you know to to be mydriver, go around, look at
properties, all of that stuffInconvenient and yet not totally
inefficient because it allowedme to do other things when I was
(34:14):
, you know, on the road and soforth me to do other things when
I was, you know, on the roadand so forth.
But as I, as that journey kindof progressed, it became more
and more obvious to me thatthere's this restriction, that
I'm kind of being just squelcheddown by not being able to drive
right.
And so it happens not a ton,but it does happen a fair amount
(34:39):
.
In the Amish community, wherepeople actually have their
driver's license and people justdon't know about it, you know,
maybe they'll drive when they goout of the county or something
like that, I had a friend thatused to sometimes get a rental
over the weekend and just drivethe car over the weekend, over
the weekend, and just drive thecar over the weekend.
So I got to a point where Irealized that, look, I'm not
(35:02):
sure what I'm doing, but I'mgoing to get my driver's license
because I was just sick andtired of not being able to.
I was so tired of not beingable to do what I wanted to do
and again it was about being whoI felt like God was calling me
to be.
So I started that process, gotmy driver's license, started
driving a bit.
And then it was like this sucks, like I'm always like hoping no
one would see me because I wasdriving some locally in town and
(35:23):
stuff.
So as I kind of went down thatpath, got my license, started
driving some, it was like I needto figure out it's one way or
another here.
So I talked to the bishop inour church about it and that
started the pretty quicktransition of just making the
(35:44):
decision that I'm not going tobe a member anymore.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Was he not in agreement with your transition
or not in agreement with havinga license and driving?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
My journey with that was probably quite a bit
different and, I'm going to say,not as challenging as it is for
many people because I hadalready had a little bit of
these conversations with mybishop around some of the things
, and he was also a man that hadseen a lot in his life and he
was more open.
(36:16):
I wouldn't say he wassupportive of someone choosing
to step out, but he was moreopen to it, so that made the
transition a lot easier for me.
It wasn't the most comfortablething to do, but just the fact
that I felt the freedom to goand talk to him about it.
I was very grateful for that.
That's not something that mostpeople would do based on who
(36:39):
their leaders are, so he wasreally the first one that I went
to and I said, hey, here'swhere I'm at, I'm still a member
.
I started driving and I'm notsure what to do and also I don't
know if this will make sense toyou or not, but every twice a
year in the Amish church youhave what would be known as kind
(37:06):
of the term of.
It would kind of be like councilmeeting, I guess, where they
kind of go over all the rulesand everything, and then the
next time at church is when wehave communion.
And it was kind of this timewhere, like, if someone is, you
know, about to step out, or ifsomeone is not following the
rules or something, they wereforced to like not participate
(37:29):
in communion.
And so it was coming up to thattime of the year and that's why
it was like I'm going to gotalk to him, it's like I'm okay
with still coming to church, butlike here's where I'm at and
I'm like I'm not sure what to do.
And he actually was veryhelpful and he I don't know if I
would say he advised me to likestep out, but he kind of gave
(37:52):
me the clarity and kind of gaveme the freedom to do that
without actually saying it, ifthat makes sense.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, so you weren't shunned for leaving then.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Well, that's another broad thing.
So, yeah, based on just how thesystem works, there's still,
like this process that needs tohappen.
So officially I was, but it wasdone a bit differently than
what it's been done for somepeople and the only way.
(38:25):
The only reason that he didwhat he did is just because it's
a process.
It's like it's just part ofthis process which is kind of
impossible to even describe.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And what does that look like?
The shunning part.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
It's another thing that's very different in
different communities and all ofthat, but in general, if
someone is excommunicated, ifsomeone chooses to step out
after being a member, one of thebiggest things is you're not
supposed to drive with them,you're not supposed to drive in
(39:00):
their, you're not supposed toride in their vehicle.
Some of the more ridiculousones, in my opinion, are I mean,
I don't know if you've heard ofthis or not, but you're not
supposed to eat with someoneLike my parents to this day this
is not the easiest thing totalk about but my parents to
(39:22):
this day.
If I go to their house for ameal, they will set up a second
table that's like a coupleinches away from their table and
we'll sit there and have a mealtogether like a couple inches
away from their table and we'llsit there and have a meal
together.
It's something that's takenvery much out of context, out of
the Bible, about not eatingwith sinners.
I think it's in 1 Corinthians 5.
(39:43):
I think I'm not sure.
So that's a big one.
That's actually a very broadcultural thing.
And then another one that mostpeople, or some people, wouldn't
know about as much, and I haveno idea where this comes from um
.
For me, as a person that hasbeen you know, quote
excommunicated, if I'm workingalongside someone that is amish,
(40:08):
I'm not supposed to hand themsomething like if I'd be working
alongside someone, I'm notsupposed to hand them something
like if I'd be working alongsidesomeone.
I'm not supposed to hand them atool.
I'm supposed to set it down andthen they can pick it up.
It's totally absurd.
I don't know where it comesfrom, um, and that is one of the
rules that I would say thatdoesn't really get enforced, um
(40:30):
as much.
But yeah, those are some of thethings that in general, the
Amish, like the leaders, wouldtell their members when someone
gets excommunicated, that theseare the things you can't do.
You can't drive with them, youcan't eat at the same table, you
know all of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
It's hard to understand.
Was that pretty painful for youto know that you can no longer
participate at the dinner tablewith your family?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
So the most difficult thing for me, and still today,
is just seeing that they arebeing restricted by those rules.
So the traditional method ofshunning and I have some friends
that this would be a realityfor them where they're not even
invited to family functions,they're not invited to a family
(41:20):
Christmas dinner, they're likevery, very much shunned by the,
I guess the meaning of the word.
I never experienced that andI'm very grateful for that.
I was always invited to familygatherings and all of my
siblings actually are verysupportive of me.
It would only be my parentsthat have taken a more
(41:41):
traditional approach to notdriving with me and not eating
at the same table and some ofthose things.
So, yes, very difficult, butthe most difficult thing is just
wishing that they could bereleased from that bondage or
that belief, because I know it'snot something that they really
want to do.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
They just believe that they have to do it and
that's the hardest thing Inorder not to be punished by
their church, right, yeah, or?
Speaker 2 (42:09):
even in order to have a clear conscience where it's
like you.
Just you know you're notallowed to do these things and,
yeah, that's the hardest thingfor me.
I would just want to see themreleased from that false belief.
Yeah, wow, but I am verygrateful for the relationship
that I do have with them,because I think you would agree
(42:31):
if someone invites you intotheir home, cooks a meal for you
, sits down even if the table isthree inches away.
That's not how you shun someone, you know.
That's not, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah, essentially you are invited back, but they're
saying, hey, we still have tofollow by these rules, and this
is what we're doing in order tomake that distinction.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Yeah, right, and so you are in real estate right now
.
You're a real estate investorand you also have a community
that you teach onentrepreneurship and real estate
.
I'd love for you to get intowhat Jake Beiler's up to now and
what your life looks likeThings that are lighting you up.
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Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, so I get really excited talking about this.
So here we go.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
You're like, this is the fun part.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
No, I mean, I love talking about you know, the
Amish stuff too, but real estateis something that's been a
passion of mine.
So somebody gets me startedtalking about this, but I can go
for a while.
And so somebody gets me startedtalking about this, but I can
go for a while.
So I bought my first rentalproperty.
I think it's actually about 18years ago now and that was when
(44:28):
I was still working a full-timejob but transitioned out of that
a couple years later andstarted buying some rental
properties, buying flipproperties, what would be
commonly known as flippingproperties buying a rundown
property, fixing it up, sellingit.
So I did that for a number ofyears on a fairly small scale.
I had one employee for a while,but I did a portfolio of rental
(44:55):
properties, not so muchflipping anymore, more focused
on, like the passive income, own, a couple of short term rentals
, more commonly known as Airbnbs.
And the meeting or the teachingthing that you referred to,
that's a monthly meetup, monthlymeeting that I host.
(45:17):
We generally get speakers in ona broad range of topics.
That's a group that I became apart of, actually was part of,
when the group started up,probably 12 years ago, and then
about six, seven years ago Istarted leading the group, kind
of being the host of the group,and it's a great community of
(45:40):
people Varies quite a bit, but100 to 150 people at a meeting,
just people coming to learn andto network, and so it's
something that's been veryrewarding.
It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work alwaysfinding speakers, managing all
of that, but it's been reallyfun.
And then the newest thing for mein the realm of investing was
(46:04):
getting my real estate license.
So around the middle of lastyear I got my license, and so
now I get more excited abouthelping young guys buy their
first investment property,helping people, you know, buy
their home, sell their home.
To me that's the newest andmost exciting thing.
I certainly haven't, Icertainly don't know at all, but
(46:26):
I have learned a lot the last15 plus years, and to be able to
help other people with what Ihave learned and to help other
people, you know, hopefully on ajourney of, you know, financial
freedom, which is what it didfor me, that gets me excited.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah, you're really passionate about financial
freedom I am, and helping people.
Yeah, I can just see you'rejust like you lit up when you
were saying that You're soexcited about it and in that
monthly meeting.
So it's almost like amastermind right For a real
estate entrepreneurship.
Is it open to the public?
Is there a membership fee?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (47:06):
So it is an open group.
Anyone can come.
There's a lot of these groupsaround actually, we're probably
one of the larger ones butthere's a.
There's a lot of these groupsaround actually, we're probably
one of the larger ones butthere's a number of these groups
around.
Usually they're on meetupcom.
We've just not chosen to dothat.
The idea behind the group whenit started was just to provide
education for the community, notstrictly for the paying
(47:28):
community, but that's kind ofwhere the need was seen.
People just were, you know,were going out and buying stuff
that didn't make sense and theywere paying way too much.
So that's kind of how themeeting started.
It has progressed more intowhat I would call a higher value
networking and a bit of well, Imean for me personally since I
(47:52):
started hosting the meeting andgetting the speakers.
I do enjoy having some verypractical teaching how to, but
what I believe is actually moreimportant is things like
personal development and thingslike you know not only how to do
this, but why do you want to dothis and kind of the bigger why
(48:13):
behind that.
So that's what I get reallyexcited about.
The how-to is actually prettyeasy.
You can read tons of books,tons of podcasts.
The how-to is really not thathard, but just getting around a
group of growth-oriented peoplelooking to get out and solve
problems whether that's in thereal estate world or whatever
(48:37):
that's really a lot of thecontent that we have at our
meeting now.
Just for example, in the lastyear or two, probably one of the
most off-topic speakers that wehad that had nothing to do with
real estate was a judge by thename of Jeffrey Conrad from the
(48:58):
Lancaster County Court of CommonPleas, and the reason that I
invited, or the reason that Iwent after him to see if he
would speak, is because I hadgotten to know him through a
mutual friend and I was just soblown away.
This guy is a very strongChristian man.
Like I said, he works as ajudge in the Lancaster County
Courthouse, gets into some crazysituations and relies really
(49:22):
heavily on the Lord to providewisdom in some of those
decisions he has to make.
So one of my main reasons forwanting to invite someone like
that in was just because howmuch it had impacted me and I
felt like it would be helpfulfor the community to hear
someone like that.
And then, yeah, just a verybroad range.
(49:47):
Usually it has something to dowith real estate or business in
some way.
To do with real estate orbusiness in some way.
But we've come, we have movedaway from the very specific like
how to buy your first rental orhow to flip a house more, and
kind of gotten into the more ofa broader range of teaching and
inspiration.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yeah, and so a lot of people from the Amish community
attend these meetings.
Is that correct?
Yeah, I would say probably overhalf.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
It might even be 70% from the Plain community, but
it's very open for whoever wantsto come.
It's a free meeting.
Nobody makes any money off ofit.
We have sponsors that pay forour rentals at Shady Maple and
myself and a few others thathelp to organize it.
It's just volunteer labor.
We just do it because we loveserving the community.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Wow, that's your way to give back.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yeah, and it's also.
This is not why I started doingit, but I have seen that it has
helped me to grow as a person,helped me to grow as a public
speaker.
I mean, it still freaks me outevery time, but I have gotten
more comfortable with you know,because every time I'm opening
the meeting, I'm introducing thespeaker, sometimes hosting a
(50:58):
panel discussion.
So I still have a ways to go,but I'm better than I used to be
, and even just the thing offorcing me to make connections,
to find speakers, to findspeakers, so I feel like it has
benefited me in ways that Iwouldn't have even known that it
(51:18):
would, just as I seek to servethe community and I mean, I love
getting into a room like thatas well, so it's just fun to be
a part of it.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
What I find significant about your story is
earlier you said that one ofyour fears of not leaving was
that you didn't want to loseyour influence and the impact
that you had on your community.
Yet now that you left, you'remaking a greater impact by
continuing to sow back into thatcommunity, educating them,
(51:48):
equipping them, and you're doingthat voluntarily.
You're not getting paid for it,which is so mind-blowing from a
business perspective right,because it's not something that
you're financially benefitingoff.
You're doing it as a way to tolove and serve your community,
which is so beautiful yeah now,thank you for that, and you
(52:08):
brought up a good point there.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
That I'm glad you did , because it just reminded me of
something Right around the timethat I was making the
transition out of the Amishchurch is when I was being asked
to actually lead this group andI was hesitant.
So I approached a couple ofclose friends that attend the
(52:30):
meeting that are Amish and Isaid, hey, here's where I'm at,
here's the transition that I'mmaking.
I feel like maybe it would be abetter time for me to just kind
of step back into the shadowsand not be the face of the
meeting, right, and I talked totwo or three people and they
both, they all encouraged me togo for it and it's been so
(52:50):
interesting.
I've told many people this and,like I mentioned earlier, there
was a time when I was stillAmish that I was hesitant to
step out because I was afraid Iwould lose my influence that had
kind of been entrusted to me.
Well, the opposite is actuallywhat happened.
(53:11):
I don't know that I can explainit.
I think I might kind of knowhow this works, but what I do
know for sure is that myinfluence actually grew since I
chose to step out the best waythat I could describe it, and I
don't know if this is true ornot.
I think it allowed me to justbecome more authentic and be who
(53:33):
I'm called to be Again.
Not that I'm perfect in any way, but it did allow me to kind of
break out of something andexperience a level of freedom
that I hadn't before, and Ithink people are drawn to that.
That's the best way that Icould describe it.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
That's the best way that I could describe it.
I love your story, jake it'sjust so beautiful, and how you
gradually came to yourauthenticity, and thank you so
much for sharing your story.
We're going to wrap up theinterview with the last few
questions of what is the bravestthing that Jake's ever done so
(54:14):
this is going to sound way tooscripted.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
What is the bravest thing that Jake's ever done?
So this is going to sound waytoo scripted, but I would have
to say just choosing to leavethe Amish and step out of the
community.
I mean, there's other thingsthat you know probably could
also fit the category.
But yeah, it's a big deal, youknow, and not even as I would
say.
I'm not going to say it waseasier, I'm going to say it was
(54:35):
less difficult for me thanprobably for many people, people
that do it as a family, soforth.
You know much more dynamics, soI would say it wasn't as
traumatic for me as it has beenfor many people, but it's still.
It's a big deal, it's a bigtransition and it took some
courage.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Yeah, what is the best advice that someone gave
you?
Speaker 2 (55:01):
The best advice.
So I don't know that I couldpeg it down to specific advice,
but I would have to point backto when I was.
I think I was 28 years old whenI chose to quit my full-time
job and step out into the worldof investing and flipping houses
(55:22):
.
Again, I'm not sure what thespecific advice was that I was
getting over that time, but Iknow there was many people that
thought I'm crazy.
You know this would have beenwas it 2008?
Getting over that time?
But I know there was manypeople that thought I'm crazy.
You know this would have been.
Was it 2008?
I'm trying to do some quick mathhere, but it was at a time
where people questioned, like Iknow some people doubted what I
(55:44):
was doing, had a steady jobmaking you know what would have
been known as decent money andbut yeah, that was a big like.
That's something that I lookback to and I know it's not for
everyone.
You know some people choose tobe employees for their whole
career and there's absolutelynothing wrong with that.
It's just not what I wasdesigned to do.
(56:04):
So taking that step of startinga business and investing is
something that I'm very gratefulfor.
Yeah, and what are two to threebooks that impacted your life
that were pretty pivotal?
There's so many and every timesomeone asks this question we
tend to think more of the recentbooks that we've read or
(56:26):
something like that.
So there could be a whole longlist If I had to pick just a few
.
I mean, obviously the Bible hasto be at the top of the list.
There's just something I'mactually getting so much, I'm
having so much fun readingthrough the Bible this year in a
chronological Bible, so thathas to be at the top of the list
(56:47):
.
Probably one of my top books onjust like personal development,
daily disciplines, those type ofthings are a book called the
Slight Edge by Jeff Olson.
Absolutely everyone should readit.
It's just an amazing book.
And then another one, be moreon the spiritual side of things,
(57:10):
if you will.
It's a thin book, it's a quickread.
It's called Holy Moments, Ithink.
It's by Matthew Kelly.
A very, very quick read andvery impactful book.
Talks a lot about just how weinteract with people on a daily
basis and things like that.
It's a really good read.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
Awesome.
Is there anything that you'dlike to add that I haven't asked
you?
Perhaps, or anything you'd liketo share that we haven't
touched on yet?
Speaker 2 (57:42):
So just kind of going back to our conversation about
how things are in the Amishcommunity, and we didn't talk
about this a lot specifically,but there's generally just a lot
of control and to some degree,you know, suppression in a
religious circle like that.
(58:02):
And so one of the things that Ifound quite interesting was,
you know, four years ago,whenever it was we went through
COVID, you know, four years ago,whenever it was we went through
COVID, it dawned on me that thegovernment is using the exact
same thing to control people.
That generally happens in areligious setting.
(58:23):
And I mean, this is myperspective.
You know, maybe I'm wrong onthis, but it's two things and
it's pretty powerful, powerful.
So if you want to controlpeople, you can be very
effective in controlling them byinstilling fear into them and
by either giving them a lack ofinformation or the wrong
(58:45):
information.
And again, this is kind of ablanket statement, this is not
true for every church district,it's not true across the board,
but generally that system isheld together by instilling fear
into people, and that could befear of losing community, fear
(59:05):
of being excommunicated, fear ofgoing to hell, quite frankly.
And the lack of information orthe wrong information is just,
you know, I mean here's kind ofa quick side note but I had a
conversation with a young Amishguy not too long ago where he's
gone through you know the samething that I went through seven,
(59:27):
eight years ago, and he hadwent on a mission trip and his
ministers were coming to see himand talk to him about this,
because this is not something hewas supposed to do.
And they told him that we aresupposed to let our lights shine
and not make our lights shine.
And the only way you can comeup with that is by having a
(59:51):
pre-existing belief aboutsomething and then form-fitting
it to something that you'refinding in Scripture.
That's the only way you come upwith that.
So in their minds it's like,yes, we're supposed to let our
lights shine, because that'swhat the Bible says, but we're
not supposed to make our lightsshine and go other places to do
it.
And again, I don't get upset atthose people.
(01:00:15):
It's the religious spirit, it'sjust, it is what it is.
Um, but back to where I wasgoing with that about.
You know, through covid in mymind, the government did the
exact same thing with gettingpeople to do what they did
instilling fear into people andeither giving them a lack of
information or just the wronginformation, and it was very
(01:00:38):
effective for a while.
Yeah, so I think that's theonly other thing.
I don't think I have anythingelse.
Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Well, jake, thank you so much for your time and for
having the courage to share yourstory.
I know this is going to inspirepeople wherever they're
listening to, so thank you.
It's been an honor to hear it.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Thanks so much.
Thank you for listening to theOnce we Dare podcast.
It is an honor to share theseencouraging stories with you.
If you enjoy the show, I wouldlove for you to tell your
(01:01:10):
friends.
Leave us a reviewer rating andsubscribe to wherever you listen
to podcasts, because this helpsothers discover the show.
You can find me on my website,svekapapacom.
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