September 9, 2025 • 45 mins
What happens when your life looks nothing like the dream you had in mind?
In this episode, Dr. Heather Thompson Day joins us to discuss her latest book "What If I'm Wrong? Navigating the Waves of Fear and Failure" and shares powerful insights about handling disappointment when life doesn't go according to plan. Through vulnerable stories and practical wisdom, she reveals how recognizing we're part of a larger generational story can transform our perspective on success and failure.
Dr. Heather Thompson Day is an interdenominational speaker, ECPA bestseller, and former communication professor with over a decade of experience teaching both undergraduate and graduate students in public speaking, persuasion, and social media.
A gifted communicator, Heather has contributed to Religion News Service, Christianity Today, Newsweek, and the Barna Group. Her writing has appeared on The Today Show, the National Communication Association outlets, and she’s been interviewed by outlets like BBC Radio Live and The Wall Street Journal
• Understanding true passion in the Latin word "passio" means "to suffer" passion is what we can't stop doing despite lack of affirmation.
• How a text from Heather's mom completely shifted her perspective on her father's legacy
• Discovering that our individual stories are part of a larger generational narrative
• Finding value in present moments and everyday interactions
• The importance of showing up with integrity when no one is watching
• How slowing down actually helps you "get there quicker"
Link to Dr. Heather Thompson Day:
www.heatherthompsonday.com
-Links-
https://www.svetkapopov.com/
https://www.instagram.com/svetka_popov/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Once a Day Podcast.
I'm your host, Becca, and Ihave a treat for you today.
If you have ever feltdiscouraged, disappointed in
life, just didn't quite go asyou intended it to go, then this
episode is for you.
Dr Heather Thompson Day is ourguest, and she is an author, a
(00:20):
speaker and a communicationprofessor, and we discussed her
latest book, called what If I'mWrong.
What I love about Heather isthat she's really honest in
sharing her own personaljourneys of struggling with
doubts, disappointments, dreamsthat are shelved, and how easy
it is to get stuck when lifedoesn't turn out quite how we
(00:42):
imagined it.
And so you guys are going tolearn so much.
You're going to be soencouraged.
If you've ever wrestled withyour faith, if you've ever felt
left behind, or if you wonderedif you missed your moment, I'm
telling you this is aconversation you want to tune
into.
So tune in, enjoy and beencouraged.
(01:02):
Hey friends, welcome to theOnes who Dared podcast, where
stories of courage are elevated.
I'm your host, Becca, and everyother week you'll hear
interviews from inspiring people.
My hope is that you will leaveencouraged.
I'm so glad you're here, DrHeather Thompson Day.
(01:29):
Welcome to the Once a Daypodcast.
My honor to be here with you.
It is such a joy for me to havethis conversation with you.
There's so much that I want todive into from your book.
Your new book called what IfI'm Wrong Navigating the Waves
of Fear and Failure, and ittouches on various topics that
really light up my heart, suchas multi-generational stories
(01:51):
from people who have listened tomy podcast know that I'm really
passionate about just themulti-generational aspects how
the past generations have forcedand done things that propel us
into our stories as well.
Yes, you also touch on passion,which is what is the Latin word
for passion?
What does it mean?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Oh, it means to suffer.
Passio, it means to suffer.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, that and that is.
That's a topic that is like weare in this beautiful big story
of the human story of we all are.
You know, all of us suffer insome form.
Right, yeah, and so your topicof navigating fears and
disappointments is is just yeah.
(02:34):
So I'm just so thrilled to havethis conversation with you and
I love the title of your bookwhat If I'm Wrong?
What a powerful title, becauseI think we all struggle with
that.
We all struggle withdisappointments.
So, before we dive into yourbook, can you?
give us a little backstory of DrHeather and why this book and
(02:54):
why now.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh, man, backstory is I taught communication for
almost 15 years.
I always say that when I try todescribe my personality, I'm
both forever a teacher andforever a student.
I love curiosity and learning,and so that's really marked kind
(03:17):
of my own journey.
And so what if I'm wrong?
Honestly, it kind of fits withall of that, because I've always
felt this calling, if you will,towards writing.
For me, that's the passion thatI'm talking about in the book
and realizing, you know,struggling with was I wrong?
(03:37):
You know I didn't understandwhen I started this journey that
passion means to suffer, and so, for me, passion is what I was
doing for accolades, open doors,affirmation and resources.
But what happens when I don'treceive any of those things?
And I didn't realize that that'sactually where passion starts.
(03:57):
So passion is not what we aredoing because of affirmation,
open doors, accolades andresources.
It's what we can't stop doingdespite not having any of those
things.
It is that willingness to keepsuffering for and through this
thing that makes it our passion.
And I didn't understand that.
But in my communication,research, like words, mean
(04:20):
things, and so for me, I alwayslike to understand the meaning
of the words that I'm using,because it changes my
relationship with that thing orrelationship with that word.
And so, yeah, I wrote the bookbecause I went through like a
three to four year period ofuncertainty and darkness and
(04:41):
really saying to myself over,like, was I wrong about these
things that I thought weresupposed to happen in my life,
or this vision that I've alwayshad for my life?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, that's powerful , and in this story too, you
talk about how a conversationthat you had with your mom.
So I'd love for you to set upthe story for us of how that
came about and where thisdisappointment came from.
Like we are wrestling withdisappointment and what you
thought should have could havebeen looked a lot different than
(05:12):
you expected it to be?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, so there were a lot of financial pressures
happening at this time that I'mwriting this book.
But a big emotional andspiritual pressure for me, or
breaking point tension in mylife, was my dad being diagnosed
with Alzheimer's.
Now he had got.
He was diagnosed withAlzheimer's I think, when I was
25.
So many years prior.
But at this time is when he'sreally deteriorating.
(05:37):
And my dad was just, you know,the most passionate, and I mean
that in every sense of thatactual literal translation of
that word.
He knew what he was called todo and he always pursued it with
great passion.
He was willing to suffer forand through.
He was in Broadway, he was inJesus Christ Superstar, he was
in Hair, he had a verysuccessful career, ended up
(05:58):
leaving that to go into ministryfor a variety of reasons and I
would say in ministry neverreceived I mean had successful
projects, but every penny hemade always went back into the
ministry.
And so you know he hasAlzheimer's and anybody who
knows what it feels like to lovesomebody deeply who is
(06:22):
terminally ill or needs assistedliving or nursing home care,
these things are very, veryexpensive.
It can be upwards of $10,000 amonth, and so we're trying to
calculate how in the world wecan afford nursing home care for
the person that we love themost, which is a very sick
(06:42):
feeling that it puts you in.
And I just remember having thismoment of frustration with God,
honestly, and texting my mom andsaying it feels like dad has
given his whole life to ministryand to God and to his passion
and he has nothing to show forit.
And my mom texts me back 59minutes later, though her read
(07:04):
receipt said she had read itimmediately, so it took her 59
minutes to decide what she wouldsay back to me, and she sent me
back a message that said he hasyou to show for it.
So I think you're wrong, andthat was a moment for me.
It's actually gonna make me cryeven.
That was a moment for me whereI just realized everything that
(07:28):
I'm experiencing in this worldis so much bigger than my one
singular life and I am a part ofan unfold like this human
unfolding story that is so muchbigger than my tiny piece in it.
Yeah, right, and so is itpossible that even right now, as
you and I are sitting heretalking, is it possible that we
(07:50):
are accessing the answeredprayers that our great, great,
great, great grandmothers prayed.
Is that possible?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Wow yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
And I know for a fact that I am living in prayers
that my dad prayed and I'mwatching my daughter also live
in prayers that God didn'tanswer in my life, but I'm
seeing Him answer them.
So it just made me realize, oh,my goodness, I'm a part of this
much bigger thing than Irealized, and that perspective
just started making me askmyself what else could I be
getting wrong about how I'mseeing my life, or how I'm
(08:20):
seeing success, or how I'mseeing failure?
What could I be getting wrong?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Wow, wow, that's so powerful.
Yeah, because I think that theworld measures success by.
You know there's certainmetrics, right?
You know, did you make the NewYork Times bestseller list?
Did you accomplish this?
You know what are yourfollowers, what you know.
If, with your dad, it's like,did he reach this level of
ministry, or reach that amountof people, or X, y and Z?
(08:46):
You know how many churches didhe build, or whatever?
It is right, and those all canbe great, and I do believe that,
yes, you can use your influencefor good, and if you have
bigger influence, you can make agreater impact in certain ways,
in certain ways.
(09:08):
At the same time, we know,though, that the impact that we
make and I love my Angela'squote, which is your legacy is
every life you touch, right, andso the lives that your dad has
touched and the ways that he'simpacted people, we still don't
know the repercussions and theripple effect of that, right.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Let me, let me insert this thought Anybody shows up
when everybody's waiting for you.
It does not take character andit does not take integrity to
turn on a microphone when I havea hundred thousand downloads.
That's not hard.
It doesn't take character andit doesn't take integrity to
write a book when I know it'sgoing to sell a million copies
and be on the New York Timeslist.
(09:45):
That's not hard.
What is hard is what each of us, I think, are actually doing,
like all of us in this messymiddle are showing up to our
lives every single day and wedon't know if anyone cares.
That's hard and that takescharacter and that takes
integrity.
To pursue your passion whenthere's no one telling you to
(10:06):
yeah, or when you're facingdisappointment like if you're
getting rejected time and timeand time again.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
That's character, yeah, that's integrity.
So what do we do in the middleof that failure?
What do we do in the middle, inthe middle of the messy?
Just yeah, yeah.
How do we handle that?
Or how do we, what do we dowhen life doesn't go as planned?
Martin Luther.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
King Jr.
One of his last speeches thathe gives, he gives it to a group
of seniors.
Now, this is during the civilrights movement, and so the
world is not their oyster, right?
It's like the world is notgoing to open itself to endless
opportunity for them.
So what do you say at agraduation?
Go, change the world.
Like.
What do you say to a group ofpeople who everything, the legal
(10:52):
system, is literally stackedagainst you, right?
And what he says to them is ifall you do when you leave here
is be a street sweeper, thenhere's the call, here's the task
.
Here's the call, here's thetask, here's the vision.
I want you to sweep thosestreets with so much passion and
so much intention and so muchintegrity that all of heaven has
to stop and say oh my God, lookat this street sweeper.
(11:19):
And that changed my life,because I started.
For me, it was teaching andshowing up to a class that maybe
sometimes would have fivestudents in it after lunch that
didn't want to be there.
And I just remember having thismental conversation with myself
and saying I'm going to teachthis class as if it's the most
important thing I'm ever goingto do in my entire life, when I
get on this call with you,literally the conversation I
(11:39):
have is okay, I'm good, this isgood morning America.
You're going to get on thisinterview and you're going to do
this as if it's the mostimportant thing you will ever do
in your entire life, and I havestarted living my life that I
mean down to like.
This is going to sound woo woofor some people, but it has
changed my life.
This practice of like evenwiping my counters and saying
don't rush this.
There is something for you inthe present, is not your enemy.
(12:00):
Don't rush this.
There is something for you inthe present is not your enemy.
Don't rush even this process ofjust cleaning up after yourself
.
Living my life in this way, asif every single thing has value
in the present moment that I'min, even my uncertainty, even my
discomfort, even my failure anddiscouragement, there's
(12:21):
something for me here.
Let this do some work in myheart so that when I go to the
next phase, I have fullycompleted this one Right?
So I think that's what we do.
We show up to our lives as ifit matters.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And I'm telling you, when you start living that way,
what you'll—I just remember thismoment Now.
I'm talking for a long time,but I had this moment I, when I
first had this realization.
I go over and I'm teaching at auniversity.
I go over to teach my class.
It's after lunch and typically,like I could just tell on their
faces, nobody wanted to bethere.
And in the past, if I walkedinto a lecture hall and it's
(12:58):
like everybody just seems tired,the vibes are off.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I would just be like you know what.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Let's just here's the five things you guys need to do
, and then let's wrap it up.
And I didn't.
I just said you know what I'msupposed to be here.
I'm going to teach this classas if it's the most important
thing I'm ever going to do in myentire life.
And so I taught the class and Ijust remember like they started
waking up and we had a greatclass.
Afterwards, one of the girlscame to my office and she said I
just want to thank you, becausesomething you said I don't even
(13:24):
remember what it was, to bequite honest, but she said
something you said in thelecture today gave me like peace
or direction on what I'msupposed to do after graduation.
And so I just want to thank youfor what you said today.
And I just remember when sheleft I was like huh, what if I
had just phoned it in?
What if I had just gotten upand said here's the five things.
(13:45):
And so I realized I was missingopportunities in my own life to
make what you had said earlier,to make a moment for someone
else that now they helps themget through the next day in
their life or after graduation.
We are missing theseopportunities because we think
it doesn't matter.
And I want you to know itmatters and you'll start seeing
(14:06):
the fruit of how much it matterswhen you start living as if it
does.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, that is such a good word because a lot of us I
feel like you know, for majorityof us there's this thing of
like oh, when the next thinghappens, then I will X, Y and Z,
Like when I get that promotion,when you know, whatever that
next thing that you're lookingfor, when I get married, when I
have kids, when this business,that whatever that is that
(14:31):
you're looking for or dreamingof, but living in the present,
and we can often feel like afailure because you haven't
maybe reached that next thingthat you're striving for or
dreaming for, which is great tohave dreams, and I'm all about
like, yes, think big, dream big,do big things.
And yet sometimes it's in themiddle of us, feeling like we're
a failure, that somethingbeautiful happens.
(14:53):
And I want you to share thestory that you write in your
book about the time that youfelt like you were failing, like
your new book was coming out,you weren't getting as many
sales as possible, and thenthere was this woman who you
called Joe.
I would love for you to sharethat story because, wow, how
powerful of an example that isUnbelievable, right.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So in, so in.
I need to preface this bysaying the book I had published
before that sold I think it waslike 5,000 copies in the first
week.
Right, so, very good sales.
The team's going crazy and soI'm thinking we're just going to
continue on this escalation.
Right, let's go, let's keep itcoming.
Right, let's put out the nextbook.
So I put out my next book, andthe first week, I believe, it
(15:39):
sold 511 copies.
Right, so not I mean barely adent in the publishing world,
and I am just devastated by this.
And what I did not know at thetime because I think I wouldn't
discover this for almost a yearlater is that one of those 511
copies went to a woman who wasdeeply impacted by my.
(16:04):
She had we had a lot ofsimilarities she had worked in
in.
As for the government, she wasa communication director for
actually I don't want to saywhich state, but for for the
attorney general of a state,gotcha and so she had a high
level position in politics andcommunication.
Her dad also had been a pastor.
My dad had been a pastor, herdad.
She moved back home to takecare of her dad when he got sick
(16:25):
.
I also moved back home to takecare of my dad when he got sick.
She felt all these connectionsto me in my story and long story
short.
And actually, when she firststarted writing me, her family
owned a business.
Well, in the course of the yearthat her and I are just like
having, I would, I mean not evensuper deep conversation, just
very lighthearted conversation.
(16:47):
In the course of that year, herfamily I had no idea sold their
business for multi, multi,multi millions and millions of
dollars.
At the same time, I am feelinglike a failure.
My books are not selling.
I'm calculating how much it'sgoing to cost for my dad to go
to a nursing home and this womanends up essentially saying that
(17:10):
she feels called to fund myministry for the next couple of
years, writing a very, verylarge check to my nonprofit.
Literally, she covers my salary.
The only reason I'm able to sithere right now, not in a
classroom, is because this woman, one of the 511 people who read
my book, happened to besomebody that felt stirred to
(17:31):
help me, and it's just I can't.
I'm not the same after thatexperience, and so I'll tell you
like even I mean of course Ihave discouraging things like
happening right now, and it justdoesn't matter as much to me
anymore, cause I realized, likewhat I see, there is so much
that I don't see.
I'm telling you at the sametime that I am literally looking
(17:52):
at my ceiling.
I can remember laying in my bed, I can remember saying this,
and for me this is a big deal,cause I just remember this
moment to the Lord where I saidyou like you must not be
powerful.
You must not, because itdoesn't make sense to me that
I've watched my dad giveeverything.
I'm seeing what I'm goingthrough, god, I try so hard to
show up to even wiping mycounters, and it just seems like
(18:15):
you don't care.
Right, you must not be powerful.
At the same time that I'msaying this to the Lord, he has
this woman's already in my life.
I just don't realize who she is?
Speaker 1 (18:25):
You just don't know it yet.
He got somebody setting it upbehind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
The answer to my prayers is already right beside
me.
I just couldn't see it and Ijust need it.
Whoever's listening?
The answer to your prayerscould be right beside you and
you just have not yet seen it.
You keep showing up as if itmatters because I'm telling you,
eventually the dam breaks,nobody stays in winter forever.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Nobody.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Summer is going to come, and who are you going to
be when that happens?
Right, like, let us becomepeople who show up to our own
lives so that, when things dochange, our character is built
and it's not that like, it's notlike this position somehow now
makes you, because you knew whoyou were when no one was there.
(19:12):
I really think that's what theworld needs is leaders of
integrity and character who showup when no one is watching,
because everybody does it whenpeople are watching.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, yeah it's, it's a lot easier, right, it's just
like.
But behind the scenes, in, evenin that, prior to that woman
contacting you, you had a verybig disappointment.
You were on a really big,well-known podcast that you
interviewed and then they didn'tair your story.
So the rejection and feelinglike whoa, like what is wrong
(19:44):
with me?
What did I do wrong?
Like there's something that Idon't have, that someone else
has, that they're getting onthese things but I'm not.
And so that the struggle, theinternal struggle, and the
facing of the disappointment,the rejection and feeling like
man, am I not good enough?
Am I not?
And and that is a real thingthat a lot of us struggle with,
(20:04):
did I not hit the mark?
Am I not?
Do I not have what it takesthat somebody else has, or X, y
and Z?
And as you're struggling andthrough that disappointment, you
get this miraculous seed that'slike boom, I got you girl, get
this miraculous seed.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
that's like boom, I got you girl.
Yeah, it's crazy, but I'mtelling you I am actually very
grateful now because I know whoI am.
I know who I am and I'm tellingyou I can honest, hand to heart
say right now I don't, like, Ijust don't care anymore.
I don't care.
If this book doesn't sell amillion copies, I hope great,
that'd be wonderful, cause Ithink it's meaningful.
(20:43):
But if it doesn't, that doesn'tdefine who I am.
I know who I am without otherpeople affirming or confirming
it, and there's just so much.
I just think that that is sovaluable and I didn't understand
how valuable that would beuntil going through the dark.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
One of the things, too.
There's a sentence that reallyhit me from your book and really
resonated with me, where youwrote for many of us, we aren't
just born into a family.
We're born into a ready,developing story arc.
We're all part of a largerstory.
I'd love for you to speak intothat, because whoa, At the Once
(21:25):
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Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, I think so.
Here's.
There's some I think I even saythis in the book like Taylor
Swift's grandmother was an operasinger.
How did that change TaylorSwift's path?
All of us have these familystories that get passed down,
(22:25):
and so I think for a lot of us,we're either trying to be
everything that our parents were, or or it was so bad that we're
like I'm going to be everythingthat they weren't.
Yeah, I'll be the opposite ofeverything.
Right, but it's stillinfluencing our story and so
just being aware of that, allthe different things that come
(22:47):
into, perhaps the pressures thatwe feel, I think, and I so.
I used to teach at this.
The university I was at was themost diverse university in the
nation large immigrantpopulation, actually like one of
the number one schools forfirst generation immigrants to
get their diploma, and so I justwitnessed it firsthand.
Students who one of theexamples I give, like my boss,
(23:11):
ended up, like one of his films,was nominated for an Oscar,
right For an Academy Award, andhe, before that, had been a
physical therapist.
And I just remember being likewhy in the world were you a fit
Like he's, so like artsy andcreative?
And it blew my mind that thisperson worked in the sciences
and I was like why did you?
(23:32):
Why are you a physicaltherapist?
And he said my parents gave upso much for me to be here.
I could not look them in theeyes and say I'm going to go
make films and see how that goesRight, like I knew whatever I
do, he was.
He was thinking about the storythat had come before him and how
, what his responsibility waswithin that story, and so he
would end up making films, butnot until he was financially
(23:54):
able to lose right Something.
So it's just, we all come atlife with different stories that
we're already a part of, and Ithink it is.
I think it's healthy for all ofus to kind of slow down and
assess and analyze okay, whatstories are influencing how I'm
seeing my life right now?
What are the stories that camebefore me?
What am I trying to, perhaps,through my life, bring some type
(24:19):
of redemption to or honor to?
I think that is part of how weknow what's actually motivating
us.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, I mean, that's powerful for me, that with my
grandmother, who's, you know,suffered for her faith in the
former Soviet Union, my mother,who also lived in underground
church because of lack offreedom and I am that kid that
you talk about, like having themhaving sacrificed so much for
(24:49):
me to be here, like the factthat I can talk to you right now
.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, yeah, no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And the talk I had created was like oh my gosh,
what a difference from the LionKing, right.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So I was just like this is not, this is not going
to go.
Well, oh well, this is the onlytalk I have now, so I'm going to
get up and do it.
Anyway, I do the talk and I haveso many women, 70s to 80s,
coming up to me with tears intheir eyes afterwards and just
saying, like I mean just prayingover me, prophesying over me,
like just loving me, and it wasthe first time that I realized,
(25:56):
oh my goodness, it's like I hadalways been so focused on my dad
because that's my, that was myclosest relationship.
But being with these women whoweren't related to me at all,
and seeing these tears in theireyes, I just realized, oh my
goodness, like women are a partof a much larger story and I
could not be doing what I'mdoing right now if it wasn't for
(26:17):
the work that these women did50, 60 years ago, and so they're
seeing in me stuff that theycould not do in their own lives,
and they spent so much energyand time, and so that's what I'm
saying.
The point I think of life isjust to make it better for the
people who come next.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And I think that for me anyways, and I'm sure that is for you
is when you reflect on the work,the sacrifices, the seeds that
were sown prior to you, whetherit was through prayer or through
the works or all the thingsthat were sown, and you get to
be the benefactor of that.
(26:56):
It also makes you reflect andsay, okay, and how am I not only
stewarding that well, but howam I?
What seeds am I sowing?
What impact am I making for thegenerations following me?
And it's not so much that, hey,I want people to remember my
name a hundred years from now,or or any of the reasons for the
accolades or all of that.
Like two generations,generations from now, people
(27:19):
most likely aren't going to knowour names, right, that's kind
of statistical.
But it's not about that.
It's not about I want to make agreater impact so people know
who I am.
So you know there's this bigstamp.
It's about the fact that eachand every single one of our
lives creates ripple effects inthe world.
And the world, when it feels sodark and heavy as it does right
(27:40):
now and it has been you knowfor ages and ages right.
Yeah, like it has been.
We need people to walk fully intheir, in the confidence of who
they're made to be and to bethe light, to be the soul, in
order to give people hope whenyou feel hopeless, for people to
walk in freedom and to have thesense of just, for them to know
(28:05):
that they are someone thatmatters.
And so when we have thesemoments with people not
necessarily, like you talkedabout not striving for the next
big thing and it's okay to dothat but reminding ourselves
that these little moments thatwe spend with people and the way
that we interact with people,but the ripple effects, the
seeds that we sow today, momentby moment, is what's making a
(28:29):
great impact and that matters.
And for you and I, with ourgenerational stories and all of
us have them in different waysit's like it's that reflection
of these people have done theirtime, they've, they've, they've
done their work, and the batonis mine.
So what am I doing with thatbaton?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, a prayer that I pray every single day is Lord,
help me to make a moment forsomeone today.
That is how I prime literallyfor when my eyes first thing
that I say when my eyes open inthe morning and this is
intentional, again, I studiedcommunication for many years.
So what you tell your brain iswhat your brain is going to look
for, so I could wake up andstart running through like, oh,
(29:12):
my student loans are going to bedue and this is it.
No, the first thing I say isLord, help me to make a moment
for someone today.
And then I kind of just payattention.
My brain is now primed tonotice the gas station clerk.
My brother just recently movedhere with me in Texas and we
(29:35):
were looking at apartments andthis lady that was showing us
the apartments I was just reallystruck by what a great
communicator she was.
You know I taught communication,so I pay attention to those
things.
I thought, wow, this girl, youare really good.
And so I said to her I said,hey, I just want you to know you
are really good at this.
You have a gift communicatingwith people.
I have felt so connected to youthroughout this process and I
(29:58):
just want you to know you, likeyou shine.
And she's looked at me and shegoes oh my goodness, this is so
weird.
I was in school forcommunication and I dropped out
because of different reasons andI've been wondering this.
This was in summer.
She's like.
I've been wondering this summerlike, should I, can I even go
back to school?
Is that something I should eventhink about?
So this is really creeping meout that you just said that to
me, right?
(30:19):
I had no idea that she.
I literally, because calm issuch a small niche thing.
I never crossed my mind thatthis would have been a
communication student.
I just saw this gift and Iwanted to say it.
But when you prime your brainto make a moment for someone
today, you will look foropportunities to make that come
true.
You'll look for opportunitiesto serve or see.
If you see something, you'llsay something and I'm just
(30:46):
telling you you, once I'vestarted living my life this way,
I can't, I cannot tell you allthe different stories.
I have, just like that one,that one's so small, but I have
some really big ones that arelike unbelievably mind-blowing
stories where it's like there'sno, I had no idea when I showed
up or when I sat next to thatperson or I said that thing, I
had no idea that I was about tobe a part of something so much
bigger than me.
But we all get that opportunityevery single day.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, one of the things that I prime my brain
with which is similar to yours.
You're making a moment.
For me, it's like who can Iencourage today, right?
Yes, because we all need that.
So it's a similar thing, andsometimes I will have people on
my heart and I I'm like there's,it's just so random.
For me it's super random, right.
I'm just like, yeah, randomingvoice memoing someone on
(31:28):
Instagram or on you know text orwhatever, and sometimes it's
people I don't really know andit's just like that it they come
to mind and and I'm like thisis so weird, like I remember
what time I sent it to someonethat we're not like in person
friends but um, and she's, she'sa pretty big um, you know,
influencer or whatever, whatever.
And uh, I just sent her thislike voice memo on my walk, as I
(31:53):
was walking and just having myquiet time and praying and just
processing some things, and Ijust she popped to my mind.
I sent her this voice memo andI was like this is she's
probably gonna think I'm such aweirdo, you know, and I don't
hear back from her for like aweek and I'm like, oh,
definitely, she's probably likethis chick is like crazy.
I get a voice memo back and sheis like crying in this voice
(32:15):
memo that she's sending me backand she's like you have no idea
of your encouragement.
And, like what you said, shegoes it's just a confirmation to
me of what I'm doing and blah,blah, blah, blah, blah and I'm
like wow, and here I was for aweek thinking you weirdo, you
(32:36):
know, and um, but I think it'sjust like we don't know.
So, like you know, I've seenquotes like if you see something
, say something.
Like you know, essentially,when you see something good,
just like you did in this ladythat you interacted with like
hey, I see this gift in you likeI just I'm noticing that and
I'm calling it out.
Yeah, we need more people likethat in our lives, who are like
(32:58):
hey, I see that in you, becausea lot of people will think that
but will never voice it.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yes, and then we walk around thinking man like am I
doing this right?
Speaker 1 (33:07):
am I I in the right track Like we wrestle, and then
you just one person could belike hey, this is what I'm
seeing.
And you're like oh, I reallyneeded that today.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, take those opportunities and it will feel
at least for me it feltuncomfortable in the beginning,
but the more you do it it just.
If they do think you're weird,who cares yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:30):
You know what I mean.
Like at the end of the day it'slike oh well you know, and I am
a little weird and you have tolike honestly.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I mean, I think, probably anybody who's like
living in this free spirit way.
It is a little weird in incomparison to the way most
people live.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, I mean, I am a weirdo period.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, oh, totally, I own myweirdness.
I own my weirdness becausethere's no one like me and
that's cool, you know.
Like it's just the way it is.
You either love it or you don't, and right, you know you choose
.
So I love that.
Well, I um.
One of the things, too, that Iwanted to touch on is speaking
of generational passing down issomething that's beautiful.
(34:08):
That happened with yourdaughter, who wrote a book at a
really young age called Can ISit here and I just think that's
so powerful, powerful exampleof something that you worked on,
something that you prayed for,and your daughter is like
walking in that.
So if you can just brieflyshare that, that would be
awesome.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah.
So I, like I said, writing wasalways the vision, it was always
the dream for my life and Icould remember I mean I would
pitch publishing companies.
In middle school I was againweird, you know what I mean?
Like I think I remember sittingdown, especially like when
Google and stuff came out, andtrying to figure out okay, who
do I send an email from my AOLemail account to AOL?
(34:50):
Love it, yeah, and so, anyway,I obviously I never, I don't
think I published a book until Iwas 22 years old.
But I had this dream of being achild, specifically a child
author.
And on my 11th birthday Iremember crying to myself to
sleep, saying like, oh, I've notdone anything with my.
I was 11.
, I've not done anything with mylife, and blah, blah, blah.
(35:10):
So my daughter, long storyshort, many years later,
obviously, I get into thepublishing industry and editor,
when I was at a conference, waslike, hey, have you ever thought
about doing a children's book?
And I was like, oh, actually mydaughter had just gone through
this really bad bullyingexperience and I wanted to write
something for parents and forkids that were finding
themselves in a bully, becauseit's such a traumatic thing, of
(35:32):
course for the child, but evenfor the parent it feels like how
do I protect you?
You feel so helpless, yeah,watching your kid's personality
change through that.
And so anyway, they said, wouldyou want to do a book?
I was like yeah, and so did noteven think about praying those
prayers as a kid.
But when my daughter signed hercontract for that book she was
(35:53):
11 years old.
And I remember, like all of asudden, the Holy Spirit just
really spoke to me and said Iremembered.
And I was like it, like stunnedme.
I can remember where I was.
I was, I had been speaking inCalifornia and I was sitting in
somebody's guest house and Ijust felt this whoosh of the
Holy Spirit saying I remembered,I remembered your prayers.
And again that goes back tothis for me it's always
(36:16):
spiritual and a God thing of aGod that is faithful from
generation to generation togeneration, a heaven that is
watching a story unfold forthousands of years.
And then I tend to think ohwell, if I, whatever it is I
don't do in my life, can I plantthe seeds generationally for
something to change for years tocome in ways that I don't know,
(36:37):
you know, I just think it's anI just this is such a fun,
exciting way to live life for me, and so, yeah, I hope I pass
that on to my kids, this idea.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that.
I just that's like such apowerful part in your book is
that we are all part of a muchlarger story, a much larger
story in humanity.
And to me that just lights meup because you know that is an
exciting way to view that.
You know, versus viewing ordisappointments as this is like
the end, all or whatever.
(37:09):
Whatever it's like, oh, Ididn't, this didn't happen and
this expectation, you know, orthere's this that is
disappointing, but at the sametime it's like, oh, that isn't
the end of it, like this is your.
You're part of a much greaterstory than that one
disappointment, that one failure, that one setback in your life.
(37:30):
So keep on keeping on, baby.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
And would that not be enough, Like, would it not, if
you were able to know today thatyour great, great grandkid,
right Like, lived into in someway that made this impact in the
world?
I'm telling you, hand to heart,that would be enough for me
right now to know that I'm apart of that story and that my
life does matter in immeasurableways that the world has not yet
(37:53):
seen.
And so I just I think we haveto tell ourselves the things
that the world isn't going totell you, which is this story
doesn't end when you die.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
It's going to keep going.
And how am I making an impactin planting seeds that will
harvest years after I'm gone?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, there's so much that we can wrap here even
further, and I just want tohonor your time too, and some of
the questions that I ask at theend of the interview is like
what is the bravest thing thatDr Heather has ever done?
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Heather has ever done .
Oh, my goodness, I got to thinkfor a second.
The bravest thing.
I had actually talked aboutthis in the book.
But I think the bravest thingso far that I've done is I spoke
up on behalf of somebody whodidn't have the agency to do so
Deep injustice that I felt hadhappened to them and it wasn't a
family member and went up tothe highest ranks of my
(38:56):
university and just looked thisperson in the eyes and said what
you did is wrong to this person.
And that felt very brave for me,because I'm not somebody I
don't really like conflict.
I'm not somebody that engagesit.
I'm more of like a walk away,Like if somebody is hurting me,
it's easier for me to just sayI'll just walk away and let you
have it.
And so this deep stirring thatI felt to go create conflict on
(39:19):
behalf of somebody else is notnecessarily normal for me, and I
remember my heart just poundingas I walked up the stairs.
But when I got in his office Ifelt total, total peace and I
could see he was so nervous andI suddenly had so much peace and
I'm so grateful now that I justhave that moment in my own mind
of doing what I think was theright thing, even though it was
(39:41):
a very hard thing.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Yeah, that is super brave.
You know to go to the higher upand say, hey, this is
addressing that, especially ifyou're not someone who's
confrontational you know it'slike oh, what am I stepping into
right now?
And you know how's this going togo.
You don't know what's on theother end of that.
What is the best piece ofadvice that someone gave you?
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(40:05):
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(40:26):
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Speaker 2 (40:42):
You'll get there quicker if you slow down.
Okay, unpack that a little bit,yeah, essentially, my mentor
said to me Heather, you can haveall the talent, but what you
need is experience, andexperience can never be rushed,
and so the only thing that'sgoing to prepare you for your
life 10 years from now is yourlife right now.
(41:04):
So you have to show up rightnow.
You're going to get therequicker if you slow down, if
you're in your own body, if youpay attention to what's around
you and you wipe the countersright, like showing up to your
life as it is.
The present is not your enemy.
And so, yeah, that advicechanged my life.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Wow, that's powerful.
What are some pivotal books foryou that you read?
It could be from any timeperiod, any season, just books
that you're like whoa, this,this is definitely changing some
things there.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
So many.
I read like 30 books a yearCause I told you I'm a student,
so so many it's hard to so.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Do you have books in, like your bathroom, your all
the rooms and all the things?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I yes, I mean I used to have an office where I just
had tons of bookshelves inacademia.
Tell Her Story by Nije Gupta.
That was a pivotal book for me,talking about the importance,
or just like the history, ofwomen throughout the church that
I think a lot of people don'trealize.
Magic Words by Jonah Berger, abook on oh and that's another
(42:08):
podcast.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, don't get me started, yeah, but no, it's true
, because you know, like we Imean, I have a ton of neighbors
and we get together, thankfully.
I love my neighborhood, youknow, but I love the fact that
you don't have to agree witheverything the people on your
block agree with, or whereverthat is.
You know, and I think that Imean the way that I see it.
(42:31):
I'm called to love people,right.
Like it doesn't matter wherewhat you stand in and the
political, on the religioussphere of of this, um, this or
that, it doesn't matter.
Like my job is to be a spacewhere people are loved.
That is the way that I see that, and if I can do a good job,
(42:52):
like at the end of my life, ifall that's on the thing is that
she has loved well, I have donemy part.
Please tell the church.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yes, I totally agree with you.
I think that this is actuallylike I theologically.
This is the first fourcommandments.
No other gods before me, nograven images, it's all it's.
The first four are love God,love God, love God, love God.
The last six honor thy fatherand mother.
Thou shall not kill, thou shallnot steal, thou shall not
commit adultery or love eachother.
(43:21):
Love each other, love eachother.
Oh my God, could you guys justlove each other.
That is why the fulfillment ofthe law.
When the man says to Jesus whatis the greatest commandment, he
says love the Lord, your God,with all your heart, with all
your soul, with all your mindand all your strength, and love
your neighbor as yourself.
To love God and love others.
For the Christian is the point,and any religion that is
(43:42):
teaching you.
Outside of that, I'm tellingyou you are breaking the very
covenant that Jesus came tofulfill.
It is very problematic whatwe're seeing in a lot of our
churches right now, and I'm verypassionate about talking about
it.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah, yeah.
And what I love is it says thatlove your neighbors as you love
yourself.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
So there's an implication there.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
That's saying you also know how to love yourself
first, my goodness.
And do you know that?
Anyway, that is another podcast, right?
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah, because there are many people, and especially
you know, if you're not inChristianity, you don't
understand this, but inChristianity there are so many
people that are like, oh well,you know, like I'm a horrible,
wretched sinner and I shouldhate myself and I'm just like,
oh, my goodness, you are made inthe image of God and all of
like.
The social science research.
People who are happy withthemselves tend to reveal
(44:31):
happiness towards other peoplewho feel joy within themselves
tend to bring joy into thisworld.
That's like we have to figureout how to find joy and peace
and happiness within ourselves.
If we're ever going to give itto somebody else.
We tend to give what we feelinside.
So when we feel angry andbitter and jealous and resentful
, well of course, then we'respewing this out into the world.
(44:55):
Yeah, work on ourselves please.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
All right, and that is how we shall end this podcast
.
Thank you, go, love yourself,love your neighbor.
Yes, you have done your job andwork on yourself, so there's
that All right.
Well, heather, it's been suchan honor to talk to you.
I am so excited how thisepisode is going to encourage
people.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
My honor.
Thank you for letting me behere.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Thank you for listening to the Once we Dare
podcast.
It is an honor to share theseencouraging stories with you.
If you enjoy the show, I wouldlove for you to tell your
friends.
Leave us a reviewer rating andsubscribe to wherever you listen
to podcasts, because this helpsothers discover the show.
You can find me on my website,speckhopoffcom.
Welcome to the Once a Day Podcast.
I'm your host, Becca, and Ihave a treat for you today.
If you have ever feltdiscouraged, disappointed in
life, just didn't quite go asyou intended it to go, then this
episode is for you.
Dr Heather Thompson Day is ourguest, and she is an author, a
(00:20):
speaker and a communicationprofessor, and we discussed her
latest book, called what If I'mWrong.
What I love about Heather isthat she's really honest in
sharing her own personaljourneys of struggling with
doubts, disappointments, dreamsthat are shelved, and how easy
it is to get stuck when lifedoesn't turn out quite how we
(00:42):
imagined it.
And so you guys are going tolearn so much.
You're going to be soencouraged.
If you've ever wrestled withyour faith, if you've ever felt
left behind, or if you wonderedif you missed your moment, I'm
telling you this is aconversation you want to tune
into.
So tune in, enjoy and beencouraged.
(01:02):
Hey friends, welcome to theOnes who Dared podcast, where
stories of courage are elevated.
I'm your host, Becca, and everyother week you'll hear
interviews from inspiring people.
My hope is that you will leaveencouraged.
I'm so glad you're here, DrHeather Thompson Day.
(01:29):
Welcome to the Once a Daypodcast.
My honor to be here with you.
It is such a joy for me to havethis conversation with you.
There's so much that I want todive into from your book.
Your new book called what IfI'm Wrong Navigating the Waves
of Fear and Failure, and ittouches on various topics that
really light up my heart, suchas multi-generational stories
(01:51):
from people who have listened tomy podcast know that I'm really
passionate about just themulti-generational aspects how
the past generations have forcedand done things that propel us
into our stories as well.
Yes, you also touch on passion,which is what is the Latin word
for passion?
What does it mean?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Oh, it means to suffer.
Passio, it means to suffer.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, that and that is.
That's a topic that is like weare in this beautiful big story
of the human story of we all are.
You know, all of us suffer insome form.
Right, yeah, and so your topicof navigating fears and
disappointments is is just yeah.
(02:34):
So I'm just so thrilled to havethis conversation with you and
I love the title of your bookwhat If I'm Wrong?
What a powerful title, becauseI think we all struggle with
that.
We all struggle withdisappointments.
So, before we dive into yourbook, can you?
give us a little backstory of DrHeather and why this book and
(02:54):
why now.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh, man, backstory is I taught communication for
almost 15 years.
I always say that when I try todescribe my personality, I'm
both forever a teacher andforever a student.
I love curiosity and learning,and so that's really marked kind
(03:17):
of my own journey.
And so what if I'm wrong?
Honestly, it kind of fits withall of that, because I've always
felt this calling, if you will,towards writing.
For me, that's the passion thatI'm talking about in the book
and realizing, you know,struggling with was I wrong?
(03:37):
You know I didn't understandwhen I started this journey that
passion means to suffer, and so, for me, passion is what I was
doing for accolades, open doors,affirmation and resources.
But what happens when I don'treceive any of those things?
And I didn't realize that that'sactually where passion starts.
(03:57):
So passion is not what we aredoing because of affirmation,
open doors, accolades andresources.
It's what we can't stop doingdespite not having any of those
things.
It is that willingness to keepsuffering for and through this
thing that makes it our passion.
And I didn't understand that.
But in my communication,research, like words, mean
(04:20):
things, and so for me, I alwayslike to understand the meaning
of the words that I'm using,because it changes my
relationship with that thing orrelationship with that word.
And so, yeah, I wrote the bookbecause I went through like a
three to four year period ofuncertainty and darkness and
(04:41):
really saying to myself over,like, was I wrong about these
things that I thought weresupposed to happen in my life,
or this vision that I've alwayshad for my life?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, that's powerful , and in this story too, you
talk about how a conversationthat you had with your mom.
So I'd love for you to set upthe story for us of how that
came about and where thisdisappointment came from.
Like we are wrestling withdisappointment and what you
thought should have could havebeen looked a lot different than
(05:12):
you expected it to be?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, so there were a lot of financial pressures
happening at this time that I'mwriting this book.
But a big emotional andspiritual pressure for me, or
breaking point tension in mylife, was my dad being diagnosed
with Alzheimer's.
Now he had got.
He was diagnosed withAlzheimer's I think, when I was
25.
So many years prior.
But at this time is when he'sreally deteriorating.
(05:37):
And my dad was just, you know,the most passionate, and I mean
that in every sense of thatactual literal translation of
that word.
He knew what he was called todo and he always pursued it with
great passion.
He was willing to suffer forand through.
He was in Broadway, he was inJesus Christ Superstar, he was
in Hair, he had a verysuccessful career, ended up
(05:58):
leaving that to go into ministryfor a variety of reasons and I
would say in ministry neverreceived I mean had successful
projects, but every penny hemade always went back into the
ministry.
And so you know he hasAlzheimer's and anybody who
knows what it feels like to lovesomebody deeply who is
(06:22):
terminally ill or needs assistedliving or nursing home care,
these things are very, veryexpensive.
It can be upwards of $10,000 amonth, and so we're trying to
calculate how in the world wecan afford nursing home care for
the person that we love themost, which is a very sick
(06:42):
feeling that it puts you in.
And I just remember having thismoment of frustration with God,
honestly, and texting my mom andsaying it feels like dad has
given his whole life to ministryand to God and to his passion
and he has nothing to show forit.
And my mom texts me back 59minutes later, though her read
(07:04):
receipt said she had read itimmediately, so it took her 59
minutes to decide what she wouldsay back to me, and she sent me
back a message that said he hasyou to show for it.
So I think you're wrong, andthat was a moment for me.
It's actually gonna make me cryeven.
That was a moment for me whereI just realized everything that
(07:28):
I'm experiencing in this worldis so much bigger than my one
singular life and I am a part ofan unfold like this human
unfolding story that is so muchbigger than my tiny piece in it.
Yeah, right, and so is itpossible that even right now, as
you and I are sitting heretalking, is it possible that we
(07:50):
are accessing the answeredprayers that our great, great,
great, great grandmothers prayed.
Is that possible?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Wow yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
And I know for a fact that I am living in prayers
that my dad prayed and I'mwatching my daughter also live
in prayers that God didn'tanswer in my life, but I'm
seeing Him answer them.
So it just made me realize, oh,my goodness, I'm a part of this
much bigger thing than Irealized, and that perspective
just started making me askmyself what else could I be
getting wrong about how I'mseeing my life, or how I'm
(08:20):
seeing success, or how I'mseeing failure?
What could I be getting wrong?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Wow, wow, that's so powerful.
Yeah, because I think that theworld measures success by.
You know there's certainmetrics, right?
You know, did you make the NewYork Times bestseller list?
Did you accomplish this?
You know what are yourfollowers, what you know.
If, with your dad, it's like,did he reach this level of
ministry, or reach that amountof people, or X, y and Z?
(08:46):
You know how many churches didhe build, or whatever?
It is right, and those all canbe great, and I do believe that,
yes, you can use your influencefor good, and if you have
bigger influence, you can make agreater impact in certain ways,
in certain ways.
(09:08):
At the same time, we know,though, that the impact that we
make and I love my Angela'squote, which is your legacy is
every life you touch, right, andso the lives that your dad has
touched and the ways that he'simpacted people, we still don't
know the repercussions and theripple effect of that, right.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Let me, let me insert this thought Anybody shows up
when everybody's waiting for you.
It does not take character andit does not take integrity to
turn on a microphone when I havea hundred thousand downloads.
That's not hard.
It doesn't take character andit doesn't take integrity to
write a book when I know it'sgoing to sell a million copies
and be on the New York Timeslist.
(09:45):
That's not hard.
What is hard is what each of us, I think, are actually doing,
like all of us in this messymiddle are showing up to our
lives every single day and wedon't know if anyone cares.
That's hard and that takescharacter and that takes
integrity.
To pursue your passion whenthere's no one telling you to
(10:06):
yeah, or when you're facingdisappointment like if you're
getting rejected time and timeand time again.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
That's character, yeah, that's integrity.
So what do we do in the middleof that failure?
What do we do in the middle, inthe middle of the messy?
Just yeah, yeah.
How do we handle that?
Or how do we, what do we dowhen life doesn't go as planned?
Martin Luther.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
King Jr.
One of his last speeches thathe gives, he gives it to a group
of seniors.
Now, this is during the civilrights movement, and so the
world is not their oyster, right?
It's like the world is notgoing to open itself to endless
opportunity for them.
So what do you say at agraduation?
Go, change the world.
Like.
What do you say to a group ofpeople who everything, the legal
(10:52):
system, is literally stackedagainst you, right?
And what he says to them is ifall you do when you leave here
is be a street sweeper, thenhere's the call, here's the task
.
Here's the call, here's thetask, here's the vision.
I want you to sweep thosestreets with so much passion and
so much intention and so muchintegrity that all of heaven has
to stop and say oh my God, lookat this street sweeper.
(11:19):
And that changed my life,because I started.
For me, it was teaching andshowing up to a class that maybe
sometimes would have fivestudents in it after lunch that
didn't want to be there.
And I just remember having thismental conversation with myself
and saying I'm going to teachthis class as if it's the most
important thing I'm ever goingto do in my entire life, when I
get on this call with you,literally the conversation I
(11:39):
have is okay, I'm good, this isgood morning America.
You're going to get on thisinterview and you're going to do
this as if it's the mostimportant thing you will ever do
in your entire life, and I havestarted living my life that I
mean down to like.
This is going to sound woo woofor some people, but it has
changed my life.
This practice of like evenwiping my counters and saying
don't rush this.
There is something for you inthe present, is not your enemy.
(12:00):
Don't rush this.
There is something for you inthe present is not your enemy.
Don't rush even this process ofjust cleaning up after yourself
.
Living my life in this way, asif every single thing has value
in the present moment that I'min, even my uncertainty, even my
discomfort, even my failure anddiscouragement, there's
(12:21):
something for me here.
Let this do some work in myheart so that when I go to the
next phase, I have fullycompleted this one Right?
So I think that's what we do.
We show up to our lives as ifit matters.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And I'm telling you, when you start living that way,
what you'll—I just remember thismoment Now.
I'm talking for a long time,but I had this moment I, when I
first had this realization.
I go over and I'm teaching at auniversity.
I go over to teach my class.
It's after lunch and typically,like I could just tell on their
faces, nobody wanted to bethere.
And in the past, if I walkedinto a lecture hall and it's
(12:58):
like everybody just seems tired,the vibes are off.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I would just be like you know what.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Let's just here's the five things you guys need to do
, and then let's wrap it up.
And I didn't.
I just said you know what I'msupposed to be here.
I'm going to teach this classas if it's the most important
thing I'm ever going to do in myentire life.
And so I taught the class and Ijust remember like they started
waking up and we had a greatclass.
Afterwards, one of the girlscame to my office and she said I
just want to thank you, becausesomething you said I don't even
(13:24):
remember what it was, to bequite honest, but she said
something you said in thelecture today gave me like peace
or direction on what I'msupposed to do after graduation.
And so I just want to thank youfor what you said today.
And I just remember when sheleft I was like huh, what if I
had just phoned it in?
What if I had just gotten upand said here's the five things.
(13:45):
And so I realized I was missingopportunities in my own life to
make what you had said earlier,to make a moment for someone
else that now they helps themget through the next day in
their life or after graduation.
We are missing theseopportunities because we think
it doesn't matter.
And I want you to know itmatters and you'll start seeing
(14:06):
the fruit of how much it matterswhen you start living as if it
does.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, that is such a good word because a lot of us I
feel like you know, for majorityof us there's this thing of
like oh, when the next thinghappens, then I will X, Y and Z,
Like when I get that promotion,when you know, whatever that
next thing that you're lookingfor, when I get married, when I
have kids, when this business,that whatever that is that
(14:31):
you're looking for or dreamingof, but living in the present,
and we can often feel like afailure because you haven't
maybe reached that next thingthat you're striving for or
dreaming for, which is great tohave dreams, and I'm all about
like, yes, think big, dream big,do big things.
And yet sometimes it's in themiddle of us, feeling like we're
a failure, that somethingbeautiful happens.
(14:53):
And I want you to share thestory that you write in your
book about the time that youfelt like you were failing, like
your new book was coming out,you weren't getting as many
sales as possible, and thenthere was this woman who you
called Joe.
I would love for you to sharethat story because, wow, how
powerful of an example that isUnbelievable, right.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So in, so in.
I need to preface this bysaying the book I had published
before that sold I think it waslike 5,000 copies in the first
week.
Right, so, very good sales.
The team's going crazy and soI'm thinking we're just going to
continue on this escalation.
Right, let's go, let's keep itcoming.
Right, let's put out the nextbook.
So I put out my next book, andthe first week, I believe, it
(15:39):
sold 511 copies.
Right, so not I mean barely adent in the publishing world,
and I am just devastated by this.
And what I did not know at thetime because I think I wouldn't
discover this for almost a yearlater is that one of those 511
copies went to a woman who wasdeeply impacted by my.
(16:04):
She had we had a lot ofsimilarities she had worked in
in.
As for the government, she wasa communication director for
actually I don't want to saywhich state, but for for the
attorney general of a state,gotcha and so she had a high
level position in politics andcommunication.
Her dad also had been a pastor.
My dad had been a pastor, herdad.
She moved back home to takecare of her dad when he got sick
(16:25):
.
I also moved back home to takecare of my dad when he got sick.
She felt all these connectionsto me in my story and long story
short.
And actually, when she firststarted writing me, her family
owned a business.
Well, in the course of the yearthat her and I are just like
having, I would, I mean not evensuper deep conversation, just
very lighthearted conversation.
(16:47):
In the course of that year, herfamily I had no idea sold their
business for multi, multi,multi millions and millions of
dollars.
At the same time, I am feelinglike a failure.
My books are not selling.
I'm calculating how much it'sgoing to cost for my dad to go
to a nursing home and this womanends up essentially saying that
(17:10):
she feels called to fund myministry for the next couple of
years, writing a very, verylarge check to my nonprofit.
Literally, she covers my salary.
The only reason I'm able to sithere right now, not in a
classroom, is because this woman, one of the 511 people who read
my book, happened to besomebody that felt stirred to
(17:31):
help me, and it's just I can't.
I'm not the same after thatexperience, and so I'll tell you
like even I mean of course Ihave discouraging things like
happening right now, and it justdoesn't matter as much to me
anymore, cause I realized, likewhat I see, there is so much
that I don't see.
I'm telling you at the sametime that I am literally looking
(17:52):
at my ceiling.
I can remember laying in my bed, I can remember saying this,
and for me this is a big deal,cause I just remember this
moment to the Lord where I saidyou like you must not be
powerful.
You must not, because itdoesn't make sense to me that
I've watched my dad giveeverything.
I'm seeing what I'm goingthrough, god, I try so hard to
show up to even wiping mycounters, and it just seems like
(18:15):
you don't care.
Right, you must not be powerful.
At the same time that I'msaying this to the Lord, he has
this woman's already in my life.
I just don't realize who she is?
Speaker 1 (18:25):
You just don't know it yet.
He got somebody setting it upbehind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
The answer to my prayers is already right beside
me.
I just couldn't see it and Ijust need it.
Whoever's listening?
The answer to your prayerscould be right beside you and
you just have not yet seen it.
You keep showing up as if itmatters because I'm telling you,
eventually the dam breaks,nobody stays in winter forever.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Nobody.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Summer is going to come, and who are you going to
be when that happens?
Right, like, let us becomepeople who show up to our own
lives so that, when things dochange, our character is built
and it's not that like, it's notlike this position somehow now
makes you, because you knew whoyou were when no one was there.
(19:12):
I really think that's what theworld needs is leaders of
integrity and character who showup when no one is watching,
because everybody does it whenpeople are watching.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, yeah it's, it's a lot easier, right, it's just
like.
But behind the scenes, in, evenin that, prior to that woman
contacting you, you had a verybig disappointment.
You were on a really big,well-known podcast that you
interviewed and then they didn'tair your story.
So the rejection and feelinglike whoa, like what is wrong
(19:44):
with me?
What did I do wrong?
Like there's something that Idon't have, that someone else
has, that they're getting onthese things but I'm not.
And so that the struggle, theinternal struggle, and the
facing of the disappointment,the rejection and feeling like
man, am I not good enough?
Am I not?
And and that is a real thingthat a lot of us struggle with,
(20:04):
did I not hit the mark?
Am I not?
Do I not have what it takesthat somebody else has, or X, y
and Z?
And as you're struggling andthrough that disappointment, you
get this miraculous seed that'slike boom, I got you girl, get
this miraculous seed.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
that's like boom, I got you girl.
Yeah, it's crazy, but I'mtelling you I am actually very
grateful now because I know whoI am.
I know who I am and I'm tellingyou I can honest, hand to heart
say right now I don't, like, Ijust don't care anymore.
I don't care.
If this book doesn't sell amillion copies, I hope great,
that'd be wonderful, cause Ithink it's meaningful.
(20:43):
But if it doesn't, that doesn'tdefine who I am.
I know who I am without otherpeople affirming or confirming
it, and there's just so much.
I just think that that is sovaluable and I didn't understand
how valuable that would beuntil going through the dark.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
One of the things, too.
There's a sentence that reallyhit me from your book and really
resonated with me, where youwrote for many of us, we aren't
just born into a family.
We're born into a ready,developing story arc.
We're all part of a largerstory.
I'd love for you to speak intothat, because whoa, At the Once
(21:25):
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Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, I think so.
Here's.
There's some I think I even saythis in the book like Taylor
Swift's grandmother was an operasinger.
How did that change TaylorSwift's path?
All of us have these familystories that get passed down,
(22:25):
and so I think for a lot of us,we're either trying to be
everything that our parents were, or or it was so bad that we're
like I'm going to be everythingthat they weren't.
Yeah, I'll be the opposite ofeverything.
Right, but it's stillinfluencing our story and so
just being aware of that, allthe different things that come
(22:47):
into, perhaps the pressures thatwe feel, I think, and I so.
I used to teach at this.
The university I was at was themost diverse university in the
nation large immigrantpopulation, actually like one of
the number one schools forfirst generation immigrants to
get their diploma, and so I justwitnessed it firsthand.
Students who one of theexamples I give, like my boss,
(23:11):
ended up, like one of his films,was nominated for an Oscar,
right For an Academy Award, andhe, before that, had been a
physical therapist.
And I just remember being likewhy in the world were you a fit
Like he's, so like artsy andcreative?
And it blew my mind that thisperson worked in the sciences
and I was like why did you?
(23:32):
Why are you a physicaltherapist?
And he said my parents gave upso much for me to be here.
I could not look them in theeyes and say I'm going to go
make films and see how that goesRight, like I knew whatever I
do, he was.
He was thinking about the storythat had come before him and how
, what his responsibility waswithin that story, and so he
would end up making films, butnot until he was financially
(23:54):
able to lose right Something.
So it's just, we all come atlife with different stories that
we're already a part of, and Ithink it is.
I think it's healthy for all ofus to kind of slow down and
assess and analyze okay, whatstories are influencing how I'm
seeing my life right now?
What are the stories that camebefore me?
What am I trying to, perhaps,through my life, bring some type
(24:19):
of redemption to or honor to?
I think that is part of how weknow what's actually motivating
us.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, I mean, that's powerful for me, that with my
grandmother, who's, you know,suffered for her faith in the
former Soviet Union, my mother,who also lived in underground
church because of lack offreedom and I am that kid that
you talk about, like having themhaving sacrificed so much for
(24:49):
me to be here, like the factthat I can talk to you right now
.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, yeah, no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And the talk I had created was like oh my gosh,
what a difference from the LionKing, right.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So I was just like this is not, this is not going
to go.
Well, oh well, this is the onlytalk I have now, so I'm going to
get up and do it.
Anyway, I do the talk and I haveso many women, 70s to 80s,
coming up to me with tears intheir eyes afterwards and just
saying, like I mean just prayingover me, prophesying over me,
like just loving me, and it wasthe first time that I realized,
(25:56):
oh my goodness, it's like I hadalways been so focused on my dad
because that's my, that was myclosest relationship.
But being with these women whoweren't related to me at all,
and seeing these tears in theireyes, I just realized, oh my
goodness, like women are a partof a much larger story and I
could not be doing what I'mdoing right now if it wasn't for
(26:17):
the work that these women did50, 60 years ago, and so they're
seeing in me stuff that theycould not do in their own lives,
and they spent so much energyand time, and so that's what I'm
saying.
The point I think of life isjust to make it better for the
people who come next.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And I think that for me anyways, and I'm sure that is for you
is when you reflect on the work,the sacrifices, the seeds that
were sown prior to you, whetherit was through prayer or through
the works or all the thingsthat were sown, and you get to
be the benefactor of that.
(26:56):
It also makes you reflect andsay, okay, and how am I not only
stewarding that well, but howam I?
What seeds am I sowing?
What impact am I making for thegenerations following me?
And it's not so much that, hey,I want people to remember my
name a hundred years from now,or or any of the reasons for the
accolades or all of that.
Like two generations,generations from now, people
(27:19):
most likely aren't going to knowour names, right, that's kind
of statistical.
But it's not about that.
It's not about I want to make agreater impact so people know
who I am.
So you know there's this bigstamp.
It's about the fact that eachand every single one of our
lives creates ripple effects inthe world.
And the world, when it feels sodark and heavy as it does right
(27:40):
now and it has been you knowfor ages and ages right.
Yeah, like it has been.
We need people to walk fully intheir, in the confidence of who
they're made to be and to bethe light, to be the soul, in
order to give people hope whenyou feel hopeless, for people to
walk in freedom and to have thesense of just, for them to know
(28:05):
that they are someone thatmatters.
And so when we have thesemoments with people not
necessarily, like you talkedabout not striving for the next
big thing and it's okay to dothat but reminding ourselves
that these little moments thatwe spend with people and the way
that we interact with people,but the ripple effects, the
seeds that we sow today, momentby moment, is what's making a
(28:29):
great impact and that matters.
And for you and I, with ourgenerational stories and all of
us have them in different waysit's like it's that reflection
of these people have done theirtime, they've, they've, they've
done their work, and the batonis mine.
So what am I doing with thatbaton?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, a prayer that I pray every single day is Lord,
help me to make a moment forsomeone today.
That is how I prime literallyfor when my eyes first thing
that I say when my eyes open inthe morning and this is
intentional, again, I studiedcommunication for many years.
So what you tell your brain iswhat your brain is going to look
for, so I could wake up andstart running through like, oh,
(29:12):
my student loans are going to bedue and this is it.
No, the first thing I say isLord, help me to make a moment
for someone today.
And then I kind of just payattention.
My brain is now primed tonotice the gas station clerk.
My brother just recently movedhere with me in Texas and we
(29:35):
were looking at apartments andthis lady that was showing us
the apartments I was just reallystruck by what a great
communicator she was.
You know I taught communication,so I pay attention to those
things.
I thought, wow, this girl, youare really good.
And so I said to her I said,hey, I just want you to know you
are really good at this.
You have a gift communicatingwith people.
I have felt so connected to youthroughout this process and I
(29:58):
just want you to know you, likeyou shine.
And she's looked at me and shegoes oh my goodness, this is so
weird.
I was in school forcommunication and I dropped out
because of different reasons andI've been wondering this.
This was in summer.
She's like.
I've been wondering this summerlike, should I, can I even go
back to school?
Is that something I should eventhink about?
So this is really creeping meout that you just said that to
me, right?
(30:19):
I had no idea that she.
I literally, because calm issuch a small niche thing.
I never crossed my mind thatthis would have been a
communication student.
I just saw this gift and Iwanted to say it.
But when you prime your brainto make a moment for someone
today, you will look foropportunities to make that come
true.
You'll look for opportunitiesto serve or see.
If you see something, you'llsay something and I'm just
(30:46):
telling you you, once I'vestarted living my life this way,
I can't, I cannot tell you allthe different stories.
I have, just like that one,that one's so small, but I have
some really big ones that arelike unbelievably mind-blowing
stories where it's like there'sno, I had no idea when I showed
up or when I sat next to thatperson or I said that thing, I
had no idea that I was about tobe a part of something so much
bigger than me.
But we all get that opportunityevery single day.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, one of the things that I prime my brain
with which is similar to yours.
You're making a moment.
For me, it's like who can Iencourage today, right?
Yes, because we all need that.
So it's a similar thing, andsometimes I will have people on
my heart and I I'm like there's,it's just so random.
For me it's super random, right.
I'm just like, yeah, randomingvoice memoing someone on
(31:28):
Instagram or on you know text orwhatever, and sometimes it's
people I don't really know andit's just like that it they come
to mind and and I'm like thisis so weird, like I remember
what time I sent it to someonethat we're not like in person
friends but um, and she's, she'sa pretty big um, you know,
influencer or whatever, whatever.
And uh, I just sent her thislike voice memo on my walk, as I
(31:53):
was walking and just having myquiet time and praying and just
processing some things, and Ijust she popped to my mind.
I sent her this voice memo andI was like this is she's
probably gonna think I'm such aweirdo, you know, and I don't
hear back from her for like aweek and I'm like, oh,
definitely, she's probably likethis chick is like crazy.
I get a voice memo back and sheis like crying in this voice
(32:15):
memo that she's sending me backand she's like you have no idea
of your encouragement.
And, like what you said, shegoes it's just a confirmation to
me of what I'm doing and blah,blah, blah, blah, blah and I'm
like wow, and here I was for aweek thinking you weirdo, you
(32:36):
know, and um, but I think it'sjust like we don't know.
So, like you know, I've seenquotes like if you see something
, say something.
Like you know, essentially,when you see something good,
just like you did in this ladythat you interacted with like
hey, I see this gift in you likeI just I'm noticing that and
I'm calling it out.
Yeah, we need more people likethat in our lives, who are like
(32:58):
hey, I see that in you, becausea lot of people will think that
but will never voice it.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yes, and then we walk around thinking man like am I
doing this right?
Speaker 1 (33:07):
am I I in the right track Like we wrestle, and then
you just one person could belike hey, this is what I'm
seeing.
And you're like oh, I reallyneeded that today.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, take those opportunities and it will feel
at least for me it feltuncomfortable in the beginning,
but the more you do it it just.
If they do think you're weird,who cares yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:30):
You know what I mean.
Like at the end of the day it'slike oh well you know, and I am
a little weird and you have tolike honestly.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I mean, I think, probably anybody who's like
living in this free spirit way.
It is a little weird in incomparison to the way most
people live.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, I mean, I am a weirdo period.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, oh, totally, I own myweirdness.
I own my weirdness becausethere's no one like me and
that's cool, you know.
Like it's just the way it is.
You either love it or you don't, and right, you know you choose
.
So I love that.
Well, I um.
One of the things, too, that Iwanted to touch on is speaking
of generational passing down issomething that's beautiful.
(34:08):
That happened with yourdaughter, who wrote a book at a
really young age called Can ISit here and I just think that's
so powerful, powerful exampleof something that you worked on,
something that you prayed for,and your daughter is like
walking in that.
So if you can just brieflyshare that, that would be
awesome.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah.
So I, like I said, writing wasalways the vision, it was always
the dream for my life and Icould remember I mean I would
pitch publishing companies.
In middle school I was againweird, you know what I mean?
Like I think I remember sittingdown, especially like when
Google and stuff came out, andtrying to figure out okay, who
do I send an email from my AOLemail account to AOL?
(34:50):
Love it, yeah, and so, anyway,I obviously I never, I don't
think I published a book until Iwas 22 years old.
But I had this dream of being achild, specifically a child
author.
And on my 11th birthday Iremember crying to myself to
sleep, saying like, oh, I've notdone anything with my.
I was 11.
, I've not done anything with mylife, and blah, blah, blah.
(35:10):
So my daughter, long storyshort, many years later,
obviously, I get into thepublishing industry and editor,
when I was at a conference, waslike, hey, have you ever thought
about doing a children's book?
And I was like, oh, actually mydaughter had just gone through
this really bad bullyingexperience and I wanted to write
something for parents and forkids that were finding
themselves in a bully, becauseit's such a traumatic thing, of
(35:32):
course for the child, but evenfor the parent it feels like how
do I protect you?
You feel so helpless, yeah,watching your kid's personality
change through that.
And so anyway, they said, wouldyou want to do a book?
I was like yeah, and so did noteven think about praying those
prayers as a kid.
But when my daughter signed hercontract for that book she was
(35:53):
11 years old.
And I remember, like all of asudden, the Holy Spirit just
really spoke to me and said Iremembered.
And I was like it, like stunnedme.
I can remember where I was.
I was, I had been speaking inCalifornia and I was sitting in
somebody's guest house and Ijust felt this whoosh of the
Holy Spirit saying I remembered,I remembered your prayers.
And again that goes back tothis for me it's always
(36:16):
spiritual and a God thing of aGod that is faithful from
generation to generation togeneration, a heaven that is
watching a story unfold forthousands of years.
And then I tend to think ohwell, if I, whatever it is I
don't do in my life, can I plantthe seeds generationally for
something to change for years tocome in ways that I don't know,
(36:37):
you know, I just think it's anI just this is such a fun,
exciting way to live life for me, and so, yeah, I hope I pass
that on to my kids, this idea.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that.
I just that's like such apowerful part in your book is
that we are all part of a muchlarger story, a much larger
story in humanity.
And to me that just lights meup because you know that is an
exciting way to view that.
You know, versus viewing ordisappointments as this is like
the end, all or whatever.
(37:09):
Whatever it's like, oh, Ididn't, this didn't happen and
this expectation, you know, orthere's this that is
disappointing, but at the sametime it's like, oh, that isn't
the end of it, like this is your.
You're part of a much greaterstory than that one
disappointment, that one failure, that one setback in your life.
(37:30):
So keep on keeping on, baby.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
And would that not be enough, Like, would it not, if
you were able to know today thatyour great, great grandkid,
right Like, lived into in someway that made this impact in the
world?
I'm telling you, hand to heart,that would be enough for me
right now to know that I'm apart of that story and that my
life does matter in immeasurableways that the world has not yet
(37:53):
seen.
And so I just I think we haveto tell ourselves the things
that the world isn't going totell you, which is this story
doesn't end when you die.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
It's going to keep going.
And how am I making an impactin planting seeds that will
harvest years after I'm gone?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, there's so much that we can wrap here even
further, and I just want tohonor your time too, and some of
the questions that I ask at theend of the interview is like
what is the bravest thing thatDr Heather has ever done?
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Heather has ever done .
Oh, my goodness, I got to thinkfor a second.
The bravest thing.
I had actually talked aboutthis in the book.
But I think the bravest thingso far that I've done is I spoke
up on behalf of somebody whodidn't have the agency to do so
Deep injustice that I felt hadhappened to them and it wasn't a
family member and went up tothe highest ranks of my
(38:56):
university and just looked thisperson in the eyes and said what
you did is wrong to this person.
And that felt very brave for me,because I'm not somebody I
don't really like conflict.
I'm not somebody that engagesit.
I'm more of like a walk away,Like if somebody is hurting me,
it's easier for me to just sayI'll just walk away and let you
have it.
And so this deep stirring thatI felt to go create conflict on
(39:19):
behalf of somebody else is notnecessarily normal for me, and I
remember my heart just poundingas I walked up the stairs.
But when I got in his office Ifelt total, total peace and I
could see he was so nervous andI suddenly had so much peace and
I'm so grateful now that I justhave that moment in my own mind
of doing what I think was theright thing, even though it was
(39:41):
a very hard thing.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Yeah, that is super brave.
You know to go to the higher upand say, hey, this is
addressing that, especially ifyou're not someone who's
confrontational you know it'slike oh, what am I stepping into
right now?
And you know how's this going togo.
You don't know what's on theother end of that.
What is the best piece ofadvice that someone gave you?
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(40:05):
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(40:26):
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Speaker 2 (40:42):
You'll get there quicker if you slow down.
Okay, unpack that a little bit,yeah, essentially, my mentor
said to me Heather, you can haveall the talent, but what you
need is experience, andexperience can never be rushed,
and so the only thing that'sgoing to prepare you for your
life 10 years from now is yourlife right now.
(41:04):
So you have to show up rightnow.
You're going to get therequicker if you slow down, if
you're in your own body, if youpay attention to what's around
you and you wipe the countersright, like showing up to your
life as it is.
The present is not your enemy.
And so, yeah, that advicechanged my life.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Wow, that's powerful.
What are some pivotal books foryou that you read?
It could be from any timeperiod, any season, just books
that you're like whoa, this,this is definitely changing some
things there.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
So many.
I read like 30 books a yearCause I told you I'm a student,
so so many it's hard to so.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Do you have books in, like your bathroom, your all
the rooms and all the things?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I yes, I mean I used to have an office where I just
had tons of bookshelves inacademia.
Tell Her Story by Nije Gupta.
That was a pivotal book for me,talking about the importance,
or just like the history, ofwomen throughout the church that
I think a lot of people don'trealize.
Magic Words by Jonah Berger, abook on oh and that's another
(42:08):
podcast.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, don't get me started, yeah, but no, it's true
, because you know, like we Imean, I have a ton of neighbors
and we get together, thankfully.
I love my neighborhood, youknow, but I love the fact that
you don't have to agree witheverything the people on your
block agree with, or whereverthat is.
You know, and I think that Imean the way that I see it.
(42:31):
I'm called to love people,right.
Like it doesn't matter wherewhat you stand in and the
political, on the religioussphere of of this, um, this or
that, it doesn't matter.
Like my job is to be a spacewhere people are loved.
That is the way that I see that, and if I can do a good job,
(42:52):
like at the end of my life, ifall that's on the thing is that
she has loved well, I have donemy part.
Please tell the church.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yes, I totally agree with you.
I think that this is actuallylike I theologically.
This is the first fourcommandments.
No other gods before me, nograven images, it's all it's.
The first four are love God,love God, love God, love God.
The last six honor thy fatherand mother.
Thou shall not kill, thou shallnot steal, thou shall not
commit adultery or love eachother.
(43:21):
Love each other, love eachother.
Oh my God, could you guys justlove each other.
That is why the fulfillment ofthe law.
When the man says to Jesus whatis the greatest commandment, he
says love the Lord, your God,with all your heart, with all
your soul, with all your mindand all your strength, and love
your neighbor as yourself.
To love God and love others.
For the Christian is the point,and any religion that is
(43:42):
teaching you.
Outside of that, I'm tellingyou you are breaking the very
covenant that Jesus came tofulfill.
It is very problematic whatwe're seeing in a lot of our
churches right now, and I'm verypassionate about talking about
it.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah, yeah.
And what I love is it says thatlove your neighbors as you love
yourself.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
So there's an implication there.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
That's saying you also know how to love yourself
first, my goodness.
And do you know that?
Anyway, that is another podcast, right?
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah, because there are many people, and especially
you know, if you're not inChristianity, you don't
understand this, but inChristianity there are so many
people that are like, oh well,you know, like I'm a horrible,
wretched sinner and I shouldhate myself and I'm just like,
oh, my goodness, you are made inthe image of God and all of
like.
The social science research.
People who are happy withthemselves tend to reveal
(44:31):
happiness towards other peoplewho feel joy within themselves
tend to bring joy into thisworld.
That's like we have to figureout how to find joy and peace
and happiness within ourselves.
If we're ever going to give itto somebody else.
We tend to give what we feelinside.
So when we feel angry andbitter and jealous and resentful
, well of course, then we'respewing this out into the world.
(44:55):
Yeah, work on ourselves please.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
All right, and that is how we shall end this podcast
.
Thank you, go, love yourself,love your neighbor.
Yes, you have done your job andwork on yourself, so there's
that All right.
Well, heather, it's been suchan honor to talk to you.
I am so excited how thisepisode is going to encourage
people.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
My honor.
Thank you for letting me behere.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Thank you for listening to the Once we Dare
podcast.
It is an honor to share theseencouraging stories with you.
If you enjoy the show, I wouldlove for you to tell your
friends.
Leave us a reviewer rating andsubscribe to wherever you listen
to podcasts, because this helpsothers discover the show.
You can find me on my website,speckhopoffcom.
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