Alex Cross: World’s greatest detective?

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What happens when a beloved character from James Patterson's novels is reimagined for the small screen? Join us on the Open Book Podcast as we return from our hiatus to dissect the latest crime drama featuring Alex Cross. We share our insights on Aldis Hodge's portrayal of the iconic detective and psychologist, reflecting on previous portrayals by Morgan Freeman and Tyler Perry. Our conversation touches on the incorporation of timely themes like Black Lives Matter and dives into the complexities of the show's script in portraying Cross's legendary status. With our own experiences as writers informing our perspectives, this episode promises a rich discussion on storytelling, character development, and societal reflections.

In this intriguing episode, we unravel the dark narrative of a serial killer who masks his murders as art. The suspenseful cat-and-mouse game between Cross and this eccentric antagonist keeps viewers on the edge of their seats—a dynamic reminiscent of Batman and the Joker's iconic rivalry. However, we also question the series' depiction of police work and character decisions, pointing out puzzling scenarios that challenge realism. Our analysis sheds light on these narrative choices, exploring how they shape the tension and intrigue of the series and offering our candid critique of its execution.

Emotion runs high as we explore the series' emotional dynamics, particularly a poignant apology scene that left a lasting impression. The themes of loyalty, remorse, and moral dilemmas resonate throughout our discussion, while we also highlight the show's casting strengths and the emotional toll on its characters. Although there are moments that frustrated us, we appreciate the series' attempt to comment on societal issues and its entertaining elements. Don't miss our take on this thrilling series, as we rate it a solid eight out of ten and reflect on its impact.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
I said a three, two, one.
Yo welcome y'all.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
What's good, y'all what's good.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to the Open Book Podcast y'all.
Thank you for joining us.
I've been seeing.
I know we took a long hiatus,man, but I was actually
surprised that we've beengetting some listens.
Folks been in there peepingespecially our episode on
Reasonable Doubt.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Reasonable Doubt.
Thank y'all for the listens.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
We, uh, reasonable doubt, reasonable doubt.
Thank y'all for the listens.
We appreciate it, I think.
You know I really enjoy doingthat.
I like when we do reviewsbecause we I feel like we go
pretty deep.
I feel like we hit some topicsthat a lot of people might be
thinking about, but maybe theyain't got no podcast that's
talking about it, you know, andthey got no outlet to really dig
into it.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
So I like that and you know there's so many things
out there.
You know twitter and um tiktok.
Everybody kind of has a littlespace where they yeah delving
into.
So this is our space, to delveinto our thoughts.
Our space, and it's the openbook podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
So you know we're gonna be open book with one
another man.
We try to do our best and growtogether.
Show what a marriage looks like, at least for us.
You know, I mean, how we dothings right all right, so with
no further ado this right hereis another review episode.
We've been watching some tv.
Yo, we've been.

(01:16):
We've been watching some, butdon't get me wrong, that's I
mean.
It's really hard for us toreally find some time to do this
it is.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
It sounds like we've been.
We'd be like binging, but wereally don't it's tough we found
something and it's like let'scheck it out and you know we
have to.
We always want to talk about itlike right after.
So, um, yeah, one of these dayswe'll probably just start
recording our conversationsafter each episode, because we
always have some really goodmeat.

(01:46):
But, um, yeah, we finishedwatching.
We started maybe a couple weeksago and finished up today
because it was a chill day afterthanksgiving, for happy
thanksgiving to everyone, chillyeah and so we finished it up
today and we just wanted to comewhile everything was still
fresh and, um, you know, justkind of dive in.

(02:08):
So, um, yeah, I don't know, Ithink I may have seen a couple
people talking about the showand was like hey, babe, let's
check it out.
And um, you know, uh, jay wentand did some research and got
some info on the show and wejust kind of kind of, you know,
delved in yeah, so I we canstart with.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
This is obviously an extension of the james patterson
books and love james pattersonyeah, I've actually read alex
cross books a long time ago.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
It's been a really, really really long time.
So I don't like some thingskind of came back to mind and
some didn't I just reallyremember like visually Morgan
Freeman playing him at one pointin time.
I think Tyler Perry also playedhim at one point in time.
I didn't realize that therewere so many additional series
out there that tried to kind ofstep into it.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
So you know that was really interesting, but it's
nice to see that they came anduh found a different way to
bring them back in in 24 yeah,and for me, I've never read any
of these series, uh, or books,um, I don't even know if I've
really any even read any jamespatterson I know I know of james

(03:21):
patterson.
I know you know the lore abouthim.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
There's controversy, of course.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
But yeah, I don't.
I mean, you know, when I gotstarted as a writer, one of the
first things and y'all can hearabout this on our other episodes
but yeah, one of the firstthings that I told my beautiful
wife was I want to be a writer.
And she was like yo, you willbe Right, and one of the things
that you did yes and is one ofthe things you do.

(03:48):
You bought me a master class.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
I did yes.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
And so when I start digging through those master
class, I saw like, oh man, jamesPatterson, who is this guy?
What does he do?
And I saw that he had a programwhere he's like you can
co-author with him so you canlike, buy into, bring your story
, he'll put I don't even knowwhat, what he contributes to it,
but it ends up coming out withyour name on it and his name on
it and it can, it can blow up.

(04:14):
So it's your way into the.
And I gotta say I was like Idon't know if this is a me being
a writing snob or whatever, butI saw that and I was like yo,
that's bs like this dude's justlike he's running a scam man.
Like do he even write anything?
I felt like most peopleprobably feel about Drake, right
?
Like do we even write thisstuff?

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Like this dude got the most famous name in in
literature and he probably don'teven write nothing, and I've
read quite a few James Pattersonbooks back in the day Um of day
um and most of them have beenpretty good.
I haven't really read a bad one, so I'm assuming that they were
all his, I don't know it's.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
I feel it is james patterson, is drake y'all, but
as you know, babe, I like drake,I respect it and I like james
patterson.
So exactly I think jamespatterson is when you get that
big you you gotta take your hatoff.
Right, you could nitpick allthe details, but take your hat
off to what they was able toaccomplish.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
It's legendary you know, yeah.
So like seeing this cast waslike okay, well, we what we
working, what we're talkingabout so let me just say I saw,
I did see.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
I think it was on Amazon prime too, back when
Tyler Perry did it.
And I was like ugh, ugh, yuck.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
I can't really remember.
I remember him doing what wasit?
Good deeds?
He did something that was likehim trying to take it seriously,
and I think it was eitherbefore or after he did alex
cross and I don't remember if itwas good or not to be quite
honest, I just remember he triedhis hand at it, that's why.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
I think it was on amazon prime too, because I
remember scrolling prime andseeing a big thing that said
alex cross, played by tylerperry, and I was like what, what
my dear?

Speaker 2 (06:00):
no, exactly.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
So yeah, okay like you said, I didn't do as much
research as I normally do onthis one, but what I did find,
there's an interview out therewith james patterson where he
was talking about the history ofalex cross.
Right, and he's talking about.
You know all of the movieshollywood came along is you look
at this story and it looks likeman, hollywood came knocking

(06:24):
and you know it just blew you up.
But he said that's not how itwent.
He said Hollywood came knockingand he told him no.
And he said he told him nobecause they said the first
thing they wanted to do waschange Alex Cross to be white.
And he told this story about himgrowing up and his mother being
friends with a black woman intheir neighborhood and inviting

(06:44):
her to come live with them for awhile.
And all the black people thathe knew growing up in the town
and in his house were supersmart and he was like the world
he came from.
The black people he knew werethe smartest people in the room
and he didn't look on movies andsee that.
It's like you turn on moviesand the black people are never

(07:05):
the smartest person in the roomand it didn't align with what he
knew in life.
So he was like I'm going towrite a story that shows what I
grew up with, where the blackdude is the smartest dude Right.
So he was like that's why I hitnone.
He told him no and he was brokeat the time, but they obviously
came back knocking.

(07:25):
He just had to wait him out yepand he got Morgan Freeman.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
So good job.
Good job with sitting on yourhands, james Patterson, because
you had a vision.
You knew how that book.
You wrote it the way it neededto be presented to everyone.
So good job for you to makingsure that it was presented
exactly how you wrote it andwith the people that you wanted
in it you can't go wrong withmorgan freeman, so cannot
perfect, perfect cast and thatleads into the first point.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
I thought about this where we're all decides who I'm
a big fan of, all decides.
Um, we all know morgan freeman.
Morgan freeman is a rarity,right like a black actor from
the 70s who is always looked atin a dignified light yes, always

(08:11):
but that's not the case formost black actors in hollywood
right.
So I was interested in seeinghow do you pass the baton to
another person, younger, who canhave that dignity?

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Right.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Right.
So I was like when I saw AldisHodge I'm like thumbs up Because
I like to see this happen.
We need more actors that's notjust, you know, some kind of
pimp or drug dealer or even sexsymbol, to have a dignity.
Dignity to it.
I thought it was dope.
I'll decide I had seen, not ina whole lot of stuff, but my

(08:51):
favorite one with him was theone night in Miami where I
thought he did an excellent jobof bringing life to Jim Brown as
a character.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
So that was.
I was like thumbs up.
I'm anxious to see this.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
And thumbs up.
I'm anxious to see this and Ihaven't seen him in a lot.
Not a lot of the cast, really, Ihaven't seen them in um maybe a
trickle of movies, but it wasnice to have a fresh cast and it
not be you know a bunch of youknow everybody's, that everybody
know.
But you know some of thesepeople maybe possibly get in a
fresh start with you know thisshow.
So that was really dope and Ihadn't seen him.
I mean, had you not justmentioned that movie, I would

(09:26):
have been like I don't thinkI've seen anything but yeah I do
remember him in that movie, butI mean, um how long ago was
that?

Speaker 1 (09:33):
right, so to me he's still a fresh face oh yeah, he's
definitely still a fresh facenice to you know, see some, some
fresh faces in this new seriesand I don't know if it has a lot
to do with the right.
Did they have like a writer'sstrike recently in the last five
years?
I know covid had a lot to dowith but I I think a lot of the

(09:54):
shows, especially shows, youknow these shows could be movies
, but they end up being showsand I think, like 50 cent said
something recently like, right,you go to a show because it's
easier to get on, because youdon't need a star to sell a show
.
You do need a star to sell amovie.
So I think this is one of thosecases where, yeah, you bring it
to the show and you can, likeyou said, populate it with a

(10:16):
bunch of actors who we've neverseen and stuff and still do a
good job.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
And, to be quite honest, I mean I wouldn't have
wanted to see this as a movie.
Yeah, a good job.
And, to be quite honest, I meanI wouldn't have wanted to see
this as a movie.
Yeah, it was a lot going on.
It would have been a little bittoo much for me to see this as
a movie.
I definitely wouldn't havetuned in.
So this is a show I reallyworked perfectly yeah, for me
anyway.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Plus, like you said, as a movie they would have had
to take out so much each episodeis eight episodes and they're
each an hour long.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
So, yeah, they would have had to take out quite a bit
yeah, so let's get into it.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Man, all this hodge plays alex cross, but again, I'm
not familiar with alex cross.
He's, he was also called isaiahin this show.
What's up with that?
Is it isaiah alex cross?
Is that like the history of thecharacter?
I'm guessing.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
So it's been, like I said, it's been a while since I
actually read the books.
I just remembered that therewas, you know, it was dark and
he was really kind of alwaystrying to solve a case, but it
seemed like, you know, it's likean episode of CSI, like on a
continual loop.
Like you know, this is prettymuch what he's living, which is

(11:26):
essentially what we see in theshow.
He's always like fighting andtrying to keep his family safe
and it's, you know, some killerthat's coming, some psychopath
that he has to deal with.
And I mean, it's like everybook is pretty much like that.
And I think I may have readmaybe one or two books.
But then after a while I waslike, ok, I'm going to move on

(11:49):
from Mr Cross, but that's greatthat he had, you know, such a
huge following.
And I think this show kind ofreminded me like, oh yes, he had
a lot going on on a regularbasis, right, ok, this is why I
kind of, you know, stepped awayfrom this particular series, but

(12:10):
it was a really good series.
I just it was a little too darkfor me.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Very dark.
I'm looking right now if IGoogle across.
What comes up for the genre anddescription is unsettling,
enigmatic and analytical.
Definitely unsettling.
I mean it was some episodes,once you get to like six.
Yeah, it was tough.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
It was like this a lot man but I love that they did
really incorporate he's.
You know, he's a doctor.
So they really made sure thatthey put in those moments of why
he was such a brilliantdetective because he had a way
of putting the pieces togetherand being able to see what other
people couldn't.
So I love that they did throwthose in.
It didn't?

(12:52):
It was scattered.
I would have liked to see a lotmore of it, but it was nice to
see it when it happened.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, so let's get into it.
We're going to toss the spoileralert now, because I'm way too
tired into the holiday to figureout which ones are spoilers and
which ones ain't, so I'm gonnalet you know up front.
We're gonna spoil some stuff.
Yep, if you rocking with us,you rocking with us all right
yep, so alex cross, the world'sbest detective world's best

(13:24):
detective psychologist.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Um you know, the episode really kind of goes into
.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
It's a good point.
Right, they made that.
They made that clear front.
Yes, dr alex cross, alex crossyes, and you.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
I mean.
The very first scene is himgoing into the interview room to
interrogate a racist right yeahand I.
It's so interesting how theystarted that, because you know
you go in and you see him stillstruggling with the death of his
wife and then him about to putin leave paperwork and goes
right into kind of doing what hedoes.

(13:58):
And I mean, even that scene waskind of weird, right, Because
they go in and interview thisguy and this guy is clearly a
racist and he kind of gets themall riled up and it's like oh,
you said this thing and that'sgoing to kind of get us, to get
you, and it's like what?

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Like, what do we miss ?
Let me just put this out there,right, and no disrespect to
anybody who loves Alex Cross orloves this show.
I'm sure there's a lot of AldisHodge fans out there now and it
ain't nothing to do with him.
But, man, the way they wrotethis character, man For one, the

(14:38):
world's greatest detect, likewhat?
Like, really, I didn't see thatno, I mean it was interesting
yeah, yeah.
But I could see how they weretrying to portray it right, like
he's basically likeencyclopedia brown on steroids,
like right, he walk in and hecatch you with the one thing.
But it was like these aren'tthings that the average smart

(14:58):
person can't it's dc's greatestsmart person?

Speaker 2 (15:04):
can't it's dc's greatest?
Really, I thought it was theworld's, I mean, you know.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
A couple of times they said world's greatest
detective right yeah, I meanbecause he does, does do a great
job of like solving these crazycrimes and I, granted, I think
that puts him on the top of themap, thinks outside of the box
really well, but as far as, like, I would expect him to be a
little quicker with stuff and Iknow as a detective you have to

(15:27):
part-time do police work yeah,but he was ingrained in it.
But he sucked as a policeman Imean, he's a detective you know
how many and I know you know Iwas harping on it so many times.
He should have called realpolice they should have.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
But you know, I guess they didn't want them to muddy
up their scene, right?
But you're right, there were alot of times in some of these
episodes.
It was like bro where is your?
Backup, like why y'all makingso much noise?

Speaker 1 (15:58):
y'all got yourselves caught.
So the lady there's, soobviously there's.
There's a couple of storiesright.
This is very similar to ourreview on reasonable doubt yeah,
because you're jugglingmultiple storylines at once.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
You got the black lives matter yes, that he's
dealing with because of one ofthe murders, um of two of the
murders actually, that happenedback to back, which reminded me
a reasonable.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
I'm like did these all get written in the COVID
Black Lives Matter time?
Because that seemed that old.
The death of a militant thingis like that's really popular
right now.
Yep, it could be.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
I mean there's a lot of stuff that kind of came out
after COVID that we probablywouldn't have seen before COVID,
yeah, and I mean it's nice tosee how many black shows that
they have out now post-COVIDthat you know are recirculating.
So I'm mad at it.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Oh, and speaking of black, shout out to the fact
that this show had two blackleads, two black male leads
Aldis.
Hodge.
Isaiah Mustafa plays JohnSampson, who is Aldous Hodge's
childhood friend slash brotherand also co-worker on the police
force and yeah, that was reallydope, really dope.

(17:13):
I like the way they portrayedthe chemistry.
I like, if you just look, ifyou, if you take away everything
else and you only look at thestory arc of these two friends,
I thought it was a really greatstory of them having some
struggles, one of them admittinghe was wrong, showing up and
them coming back together andbeing there for each other.

(17:34):
A lot of times I like to sayand this is me as a writer and
as a growing writer I'm alwayslike what was that actual thread
like?
Because the threads have to bestrong and that was a really
strong thread it was with withcross and samson as childhood
friends.
I thought they did a good job ofhaving even the other

(17:55):
characters chime in with oh man,you met him when you was little
, you didn't?
It was like they painted thatwhole thread.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Really, really good I agree, and it was very nice to
see the struggle to be able tosee them have struggle and be
able to work through that yeahyou know, because that it
definitely came to a crescendo,right, but it was nice to be
able to see what that lookedlike when it worked itself out,
you know.
So, um, yes, big shots out forus to be able to see black men

(18:27):
in the lead loved making it workand knocking it out.
They did an excellent job lovedit.
They did a great job um but evenin that there was some scenes
that was like what are y'alldoing?
Like why are y'all making allthis noise?
Y'all didn't got these peopleall jacked up because, like you,
you made yourself notice,because y'all making all this

(18:49):
noise.
It was just weird, and I meanyou know a lot of it was alex
just having so much turmoil withtrying to find the killer of
his wife and there being this,you know this thing between them
for the whole season.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
Not only that, his parents got killed too.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Parents got killed, his wife got killed.
You know him trying to find hiswife's killer, and now he's,
you know, merging this with thisnew serial killer that's out
there.
So I mean this show, it startsout with a lot on the table.
The first episode was just kindof like what is going on, and I

(19:28):
do not watch movies like this,shows like this.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Facts.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
I stray.
I am a firm believer of notbringing that negative energy in
, so I am very I try my best tokind of screen some of the
things that I watch andsomething like like when we
watched it the first time it wasa nighttime yeah and I was like
, yeah, this ain't what wewatching in the night, because

(19:53):
it was already super dark, likethe first episode was just
really really dark and you knowthe whole literally and
figurative yeah, like that's adark show to watch.
You can't even really see.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, we had to adjust the settings on our tv a
couple of times like why?

Speaker 2 (20:08):
can't we see anything right?
But I mean that's that's theshow that's the show.
Yeah, that's the show.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
So it was definitely dark um it was very dark.
So, overall, overall, there'stwo killers being tracked here.
Right, there's the main thread,that which I was thrown off by,
right.
So right, in episode one, theytell you who the killer is,
right, so we get to see AlexCross.
His wife gets killed, boom,okay, how do we deal with that?

(20:37):
Is that what we're going to bepursuing?
No, it's not.
There is a Black Lives Mattertype protester who's killed,
right, okay, that's the mainstory, right?
So let's track it down and theystart tracing that.
So turns out, they're tracing,they're chasing a serial killer,
not just, right, the killer ofthis protester, but not only is

(21:01):
that.
The protester has a complexlife himself, so they have to go
down the rabbit hole of piecinghis life together and his
secrets right to figure out whohe is.
Then, once they get to thekiller, they're chasing this
dude for five episodes yeah, itwas a while.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
And then I mean the first guy, he was murdered, and
then the second guy came rightafter yeah like literally.
Was that all in the sameepisode?

Speaker 1 (21:21):
yeah, or it was like the first two episodes.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
It was like back to back um and then you see there's
an informant.
Of course, there's always aninformant, right you?
See a cop or dirty cop, who'shelping the killer, by the way?

Speaker 1 (21:35):
he did an excellent job, I gotta say.
Let me let me look, oh my goshthis dude's name is johnny ray
gill babe, and look at hispictures on google.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Look at this dude yeah, he played that part to the
t, you hear me, because I waslike, oh my lord, oh, I don't
even want to be in a mouth ofthis dude at all.
Oh, I just, he just not.
Is not somebody that you wantto be on his radar?
You don't want to be on hisradar, you don't be nowhere near

(22:07):
him, you don't even want totalk about him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, especiallyfrom what he did to old dude's
girlfriend, like knowing Firstoff and even Okay.
So, like they said, you knowthere's a lot going on.
You know the.
So, like bae said, you knowthere's a lot going on.
You know the first episode.
You kind of see, there's thismurder.
Um, we kind of piece together.

(22:27):
Alex starts to piece togetherthat you know, wait a minute,
this seems off.
And I'd say the first threeepisodes it's like okay,
something's off.
This guy that we're looking forhe's essentially um murdering
these people who look like otherpeople that have been executed
or have been caught by thepolice, and you know they were

(22:48):
in prison for some time fordoing something.
So he's trying to create hisown book, he's trying to be the
up and coming serial killer, tocreate his own showcase of art,
as he would call it, and he'sactually an artist, right?
So he has that's the thing Likehe's an artist in real life.
He has, you know, an artgallery that presents his work

(23:09):
of he's like some kind ofeccentric billionaire artist too
right.
Yeah, and like the work that hehas out at the gallery is of
like people dying which is youknow a great cover, I guess If
you, if you're, you know that'swhat you do in real life.
You, you know you're showingpeople that you're this artist
as air quoting here, but thenthat's actually what you're

(23:31):
really doing in the nighttime.
Is you kidnapping these peopleand really actually brutalizing
them and turning them into whatyou call artwork?

Speaker 1 (23:40):
and we see that early .
Like they explain most of thatearly, they show us this is what
he's doing it's just a cat andmouse game between him and cross
, and it's really, you know,what it reminded me kind of of
is batman and the joker.
Right, it's like batman is theworld's greatest detective,
that's his tagline.
And then you got joker, who'slike this insane dude.

(24:01):
So that's what this kind ofreminded me of, where it's like
you don't have to figure out whodid it.
You got to figure out thecomplexity of how he did it and
why he did it right, like we'regonna show you up front, who did
it?
you got to figure out all of themental details and I thought
that was good.
And cross, he does have a whatwould you call it?

(24:21):
It's like a spidey sense yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, it's kind of like that he does a good job.
Yeah, I mean he can he.
Just he pieced it all together.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, we'll call it his place he ain't have it in
certain I mean some areas youjust gonna walk up to a person
who works for the main killerand let her hug you and next
thing you know, you got a needlein your belly yes.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
So some of some of the things, like I mean, if I
was a police officer I would be,or even a detective, I would
always have on a bulletproofvest, like that would be
something that was on my personsall the time, especially
because your wife was murdered,you know, like I would always
make sure that I'm covered.
But it was like so many sceneswhere it was just like this
doesn't make sense, like whenyou know the one guy at the very

(25:03):
beginning he gets murdered andthen his brother, um, knows
information, and then he getsmurdered and then the girlfriend
takes the phone, and then thegirlfriend goes off to the other
side of town.
She leaves her son with hersister to hide out of the c CD
motel with the cell phone wherethe lunatic guy was just talking

(25:23):
about, finds her and is in theroom right next door so we can
see him prepping to get zootedoff that nose candy torture her
and, like, of course, she goesto get tortured.
And then Alex figures out wherethey're at Right and finds the
motel that they're in and makesso much noise.

(25:47):
Him and his boy, 2John, makes somuch noise running to get to
the room that it alerts thislunatic.
He wants him getting theinformation from the girl and
still killing her and andescaping and escaping and like

(26:12):
she wound up sending theinformation to her ipad or
whatever and he just went overto the girl's sister's house and
got the information.
Then he had this long talk withher son and it was like I mean,
why would you take the phone inthe first place?
You know like it would have beenbetter because she was able to
call, like the newspaper ladyand it's like it would have been

(26:34):
better for you to send whateverit was that you was looking for
in his phone to yourself.
Dump the phone, which is whatshe ultimately did anyway.
But it was like I mean, whatdid you think you were gonna
accomplish?
Like you have a son, why wouldyou?

Speaker 1 (26:50):
you just saw your boyfriend get there was not
great parental decisions beingmade, because then the son was
sitting outside, on the stoopoutside by himself.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
After all of this happened to his dad.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
He's sitting outside on his dad literally just got
sniped from a distance and alexjust woke up.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
To the boy it's like what is going on here, it was
just so many instances of likethis doesn't make any sense yeah
and then like really kind ofgetting into like this dude's
like scene, how many people hehad working for him.
It's crazy.
It was like a club that theywere in, where it's like they
had live shows and meetings andhe wore masks and he had all

(27:31):
these people that was in on him.
It's like a ditty party yeah,mutilating these people, yeah,
it was crazy how much was justhappening behind the scenes and
how many people was paid off tobe I mean even within the police
department, to kind of justturn a blind eye or feed them
this information that theyneeded to get the people that

(27:51):
they needed to get.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
I will say like man, yeah, they were.
They was kind of naive.
They walked into somesituations that you would not
expect these great detectives towalk into.
And they was not calling thecops no, they weren't calling
the cops.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
And this guy I mean he had so much power, he had so
many people in his pocket he wasjust like I mean, we knew from
the first episode who the killerwas.
And I mean even with the girlthat he, shannon, the girl that
he grabbed, like she, hepresented her with like a fake
profile and they met on someonline website.

(28:27):
And then this guy shows up whowas completely different from
the picture that's online, andshe still, like, stay and have
lunch with him.
And it's like, girl bye, like Idon't care how good looking you
is, like this dude straightcatfished you to get you here.
And now he's like, oh, I'msorry, I do.
Xyz, do you want to still havelunch?
Uh, no, because I'mautomatically thinking you're a

(28:49):
psychopath and you're probablygonna try to kill me.
Like absolutely not.
But she was like, oh, okay, andthen he took her to that
gallery right where she saw allthe stuff and she, she, was into
it it's so amazing the workthat she was into it, my

Speaker 1 (29:02):
girl you don't even know you about to become his or
his crazy part is then when hetold her at first she was about
it, she was with it, it's likeoh yeah, you're gonna kill me as
part of this.
Oh, let me just say thoughbecause this is the part that
irked me the most, because Ihave it a couple of times If
your life is on the line and youwith a murderer who is clearly

(29:28):
going to kill you and you getone opportunity to do something
about it.
Why were they so stupid in theseopportunities?

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, I don't know Like she had multiple times
where she could have shankeddude in the throat.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
He uncuffed her and they ate a meal together, with a
knife and fork sitting in frontof her.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Remember he was like I'm not going to let you hold
the knife, because then youmight try to get out it's still
sitting right in front of me andremember he drugged the wine
and then she was like, and thenthat was it, but then he did
also kill somebody.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Remember she, and then that was it.
But then he did also killsomebody.
Remember she was able to alertsomebody, true, but wait a
minute, babe.
You know, the worst one is whenhe's out at the party.
She's in the dungeon, lockedaway.
She finds a way to flip herselfover in the chair.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Get to this glass yeah, because he has her in the
wine room she's in a wine cellarsurrounded by thousands of
bottles.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
A bottle he comes in and breaks a bottle he's upset
right.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
She, after he leaves, she jiggles herself around
until the chair flips over.
She's able to access the brokenshards.
Yep, use the shards to get her.
You know how hard all of thatis Like seriously a lot of work.
She put in all kind of work.
She successfully frees herselfy'all without him being there.

(30:49):
She's free.
Yeah, the door is locked,though.
So she gotta wait for him tocome back.
This chick, she waits behindthe door.
Behind the door, right, if youwaiting behind the door for your
potential killer, what youwaiting with, what you waiting
to do and what you waiting with.
This chick was waiting with afull bottle of wine.

(31:11):
Yep, she was.
And as soon as he came in thedoor then she went to try to
break it.
She broke it To hit him.
It's got to already be be broke.
What are you doing it?

Speaker 2 (31:24):
should have been a wrap.
As soon as she seen him, sheshould have started jabbing
jagged glass, not busting itwhen you don't even know if it's
gonna break on your first try,right?

Speaker 1 (31:36):
why are you waiting?

Speaker 2 (31:37):
and then she runs, she get him down, she cut him,
she get him down, she cut him,she get him down, she run, she
get practically outside.
He catches her, she cuts herface, she don't cut him again,
she cuts her face.
Cuts her face, which I mean itdoes buy her more time.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
It does.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
And this is what upsets him, not the fact that
she cut him or that she ran, thefact that she's cutting herself
, because, again, she is his artand he is trying to emulate
this other person, this that wasmurdered, that he wants to make
her look like.
So he's like, oh my gosh,you're damaging yourself.
We can't do that.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
That was the thing that upset him this is the thing
that I don't get I mean, eventhat night was just a mess, it
was a mess and then it happenedagain, right?
So after you flip down the end,down the road, it ends up,
there is an even bigger villainto worry about.
Who's right in front of hisface the piano teacher right.

(32:39):
Greece to let this piano teacherlady take his children to a
remote location that he has noidea where it is.
He's never been there.
It's almost four hours awayfrom where he is.
There's no cell phone reception, no Wi-Fi and no Wi-Fi.
There's only a landline.
And she says I'm going to takethem there to keep them safe.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
And she says I'm going to take them there to keep
them safe.
And this is because hisgrandmother is attacked and
she's in the hospital and herealizes who attacked her and he

(33:25):
goes to the guy's house to tryto get more information,
information and then realize youknow him doing what he do comes
to find out that this lady,who's been with his kids all
this time, is the mother of aman that's been stalking him and
killed his wife and beensending him all these crazy
flowers and stuff go back to thegrandmother grandma, grandma.
What was her name?

Speaker 1 (33:40):
nana, mama, nana mama , nana, mama, get hurt the man
and jacked her up.
The man that then been chasingcross forever then jacked her up
, put her in the hospital.
Oh my god, we got to tell thekids.
I even got a picture of the manwho did it.
I'm about to do this.
I'm about to let my kids knowour lives are all in danger.

(34:00):
Listen to me All of my parentsout there that's listening.
If this happened to you, if youwere a single dad whose wife
been murdered and parents beenmurdered and his grandmother
just got jacked up and his kidsare the only thing he got, and
some woman who is a pianoteacher to your son, who they

(34:21):
felt they could trust.
Don't matter, says, I'll takethem with me.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Three hours To a place you've never been, never
been.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
That doesn't have Wi-Fi.
No and no.
Listen to me y'all.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Not ever as a parent.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
Some horrible things is going down.
All of y'all lives in danger.
Are you doing that?
Are you signing up for one ofyour kids' music teachers to
take them to an off-remotelocation hours away that you've
never been to, to keep them safe?
I don't care if you are 100%trustworthy.

(34:58):
That's a bad plan.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, no, it was not a very good idea.
No Wi-Fi, no nothing.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Even if she wasn't the killer.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
The killer would have still found them.
It was literally in the middleof nowhere.
Wait, as soon as they saidcabin, they was like what you
already knew.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
They what?
Now Ain't never been a cabinthat was safe in a movie.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Ain't never been In the middle of nowhere and
there's no neighbors who gonnalet their kids go Like for real
Nobody, I'm thinking.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
I'll put myself in the situation right If I'm Alex
Cross, the world's bestdetective, right.
I know this dude, these people,is coming after me.
Our lives is on the line.
My thing is my kids is with me.
You're going to kill my.
It's gonna be with me, dadfirst period.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
That's it.
Yeah, ain't no other plan to behad.
It reminds me of the bodyguardwhen they went out to the
cabinet and dude came and murkedout the sister and it's like
what are you doing?
You telling the wrong peoplewhere you going, what you doing?

Speaker 1 (36:05):
you're out in the middle of nowhere instinct, man,
like what if you don't do that?
I understand you want to keepthe kids safe, but no, they're
not going with this lady to noremote like cabin it's not
happening.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
I mean we looked at each other like wait, what is he
?
About to do this is not thesmartest they would be safer
just staying right with me in aroom behind me.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
We would have been safer like why are we taking
them to a cabin?
That's gonna take me four hours, even when I can get through to
you on the landline phone, it'sfour hours, and I mean she made
sure to let him.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
He had no control, no power.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
I mean I wouldn't even trust I would not even
trust and call me cynical, Iwould never even trust somebody
who suggested that to me oh,absolutely, I totally agree
there's absolutely, I totallyagree.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
There's no way.
No, I totally agree, becauseshe was all in the mix Like why
are you even here hustling?

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Exactly why are?

Speaker 2 (36:59):
you here hustling no.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Who would even say oh man, these people I really care
about, their lives is in danger.
Let me offer to take their kidsto a cabin.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Because at that point I'm talking about taking my
kids away with you.
We need to find out who you is,who you know, what's going on,
and that's gonna take more than,uh, you taking my kids out for
a weekend.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
No, we're not doing that, I don't know you this
killer had stalked him for years, had put, had got into the
camera system in his house, knewwhat his kids was doing.
How do you think they don'tknow?
Even if it wasn't that lady,how do you think that dude don't
know that that lady is sittingwith you offering to take your?

Speaker 2 (37:42):
of course they do it's like the whole plan was
just bad and it's crazy becausehe had he was getting hit from
all angles like you can't reallytrust anything.
I mean because we evenquestioned his partner we
questioned his partner like howreal is he being like?
is he untrustworthy?
Is he really about to beturning on him?
Like you know, how does aserial killer know stuff that

(38:04):
only maybe his best friend wouldknow?
And I mean, that was the greatthing about the show is that it
definitely had you thinkingthroughout each episode like who
can you really trust?
like somebody.
Okay, they seem legit.
But and then you got the oneepisode where they go to this
dude's house which is actuallyin the same episode where old
girl was able to possibly escape, um and he alerts the guy.

(38:27):
He's like I'm gonna go thereand play with his mind and I'm
gonna let him know.
We kind of got a profile.
And he just go on and on and helead a party to go to the
bathroom and he gone for so longthat his girlfriend is like
well, I don't.
He tells the serial killer,well, I don't know where he went
, he's been gone for so long.
And then the dude catches himin the room and it's like he's

(38:50):
trying to find something to sayhe ended up trying to take cell
phone pictures of his stuff.
Oh my, gosh, it was just like myguy.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
What are you doing?
I was like I mean, how's thatthe world's greatest detective
Like I'm trying to understand?

Speaker 2 (39:05):
And it was like antagonizing him and then they
going cat and mouse through therest of the episode and it winds
up ending very bad for him.
It was just like oh.
Alex.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
I know I'm roasting them on the world's greatest
detective thing, but I thinkthat's just a bad title, like
Batman is horrible as theworld's greatest detective too,
and anybody who's talked to melong enough knows how I feel
about Batman, right.
So, yeah, I think it's justcalling yourself the world's
greatest detective too, andanybody who's talked to me long
enough knows how I feel aboutbatman, right.
So, yeah, I think it's justcalling yourself the world's
greatest detective.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
It probably just means you're pretty crappy at it
and you're just obsessive buthe did really good, though I
mean he did, he was, he was themain one.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
He had a technique, he was the main one that was
finding the clue.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Aside from the one girl he was finding the clues,
he was piecing it together.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
He was when you hand him the stuff he's on out and he
do the spidey tingly thing likeeven in the one scene after him
, and, uh, his partner john fellout and john still handed him
the envelope and was like doyour thing right yeah, he's got
that thing, he got a thing andit did work.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
I mean he, he is named that for a reason he did
really.
He was the main one piecingeverything together.
He knew from jump who thekiller was.
It was just convincingeverybody else.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
I feel like Cross is really.
He's like Columbo, right Likeyou, send him in, send him in.
But then once you got enoughinformation, then you got to
call a real policeman who canreally do.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Because, man, when he go in, he was like what is
going on?
They even brought that, youknow, because they had a leak
and you know.
Then they find out there was asupervisor who was also in on it
and feeding him all of thisinformation they did do a good
job of swerving us on who it wasyeah, they did they, so I they.
You know it was.
I think ultimately it was agood show.

(40:53):
It was a lot of dark, eeriemoments though like you've seen
him taking this woman and like,especially like the scene where
she's texting her mom so her momwould know where she was.
And then she gets in this houseand she uses this dude's hand
sanitizer and he then laced itwith fentanyl, right, and it's

(41:14):
like, oh, let me text my momreal quick.
And the text message goes tohim like eerie stuff like that,
like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Or even cutting her open and doing her teeth.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Yeah, like breaking her teeth and then putting new
teeth in and, like us reallyseeing him transform her into
somebody else, it was creepy ashell and the way most people
died, like it was, there wasgraphic deaths, yeah, graphic
deaths.
It was, it was a lot.
I mean, you got an opener whereyou see a man get his head
bashed in with a bat, I mean itwas a lot.

(41:44):
Or the one girl got her throatslit, or somebody else got shot
in the head.
I mean it was.
It was just a lot.
It was a very dark show.
Um, I thought that they did agreat job of portraying what his
life was like.
I mean, that is essentiallywhat he had to deal with every
day.
He had it coming at him fromall angles.
His family was highly involved.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
He's a cop.
He's a cop in in the blacklives matter era, so his in dc,
he in chocolate city, so he'ssurrounded by his culture who
don't like cops right now.
So they.
I think they did an excellentjob of showing that part they
did.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
I mean, even that mama got involved.
She was like uh, uh, uh, weneed to figure out who's doing
what.
You know what I'm saying?
It was just, it was a lot Imean, what about the casting?

Speaker 1 (42:28):
I know we made a couple of notes on how great I
mean them.
Kids look like him.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
They did I mean, even the young Cross looked like him
.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
He did a great job, man, he did such an amazing job
of casting his kids, becausewhen it comes to black casting
man, usually they just grab someblack people man.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Even the Nana Mama.
They did a great job castingher as well.
And the girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
The girlfriend was beautiful beautiful, by the way.
She was very, very beautiful.
They did a good job ofbalancing that.
Yes, having cross and hisgirlfriend be just extremely
attractive, but also have thesedarknesses and not necessarily
seeing them in the depth thatyou want it to all the time.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
I think they did a good job with that and I thought
they also did a great job ofshowing what it looks like to
not get the therapy that youneed and really just be working
on just all of this pent upemotion, like you can't go see
your wife's gravesite, you can'ttalk to your kids about your
wife, you can't hear certainsongs.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
You're literally like on a daily basis and you won't
even let your friend in, yourmost trusted friend, your most
trusted friend Like I mean you.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
You trying to find your wife's killer.
You're trying to find you know,solve all these other murders
is happening and you stillhaven't dealt with any of your
grief.
You don't want to deal with anyof your grief and this is
trickling out to everybodyaround you.
I mean it was, it was intense,it was sad to see and it was
nice to see them wrap that up,with him actually going to get

(43:56):
the therapy that he needsbecause he absolutely needed it.
And I mean that was somethingthat we talked about too was
like how his friend was like2John was like really pushing
him to get the therapy.
And it's like I mean, is thisdude really legit?
Like, is he setting him?
up Like is this like I mean, isthis dude really legit?
Like is he setting him up?
Like is this like because whyhe keep bringing this up, or why
he keep bringing that up?

Speaker 1 (44:13):
And it's like he even said it too right.
He was like you was the one youkeep bringing this up.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yeah, you keep bringing this up and I mean you
know it got to the point wherewe was even thinking like I mean
, why he keep harping on that?
It just was so unhealthy forhim and it was damaging all of
his relationships, even his kids.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
it was very, very tough to watch it was, but I
love that they did address it Ithink it was super vital that
you address it when you got alead black male or two lead
black males.
You have to address that.
Um, I thought they did a reallygood job with it.
I could relate to a lot of itas a survivor of a victim of

(44:55):
homicide, as a lot of thefeelings and darkness that I saw
in him that I could relate to.
I thought it was really goodfor them to show how, even in
your friendships, it impacts yousocially.
All of that, like he was evenin him trying to date and have a
relationship.
He was stunted.
He was very stunted and it'slike he couldn't even he wanted

(45:18):
he put himself in the positionbut he he wasn't prepared to
actually do it and then in hisfriendship it struggled right.
I thought.
I thought they did a reallyaccurate depiction of that you
could see and feel, and aldecides did a good job showing
that he got one of them.
Faces oh man, it reminds me oflike a black Batman mask.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
His face shows darkness, real good, he was the
perfect person for this role.
Oh, perfect, I mean becausethere was there was a one scene
where they had the karaoke nightat the house and you know his
wife was a singer and you shoutout to them too.
For us being able to see hiswife and how much, how pivotal
of a role she played and why heloved her so much.

(45:59):
They.
you could see the love thereyeah and they had the um the
carry note karaoke night, whichthey hadn't had in a while.
And they get to the big moment,right where girlfriends invited
and they have all of thesepeople there and they sing in
and then the one song getsdubbed over with the 9-1-1 call
the day that she was oh it wasjust like.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
And the kids?

Speaker 2 (46:20):
got exposed.
So it's like, yes, we'retalking about the fact that he
has a lot of unhealed trauma andhe's not going to therapy, but
he also is still living histrauma on a regular basis.
It's like that scab is gettingopen.
I mean it's not healing.
So I can't even say it's a scab, it's literally like an
infection.
Yeah, that's getting worse andworse every day and I mean he

(46:44):
can't even put any salve on itbecause it's just something else
is coming to hit it from out ofnowhere.
So it was just it was tough.
I kept thinking it was gonnahappen again oh yeah, yeah, it
was a lot of moments where wewere thinking, oh no, it's gonna
pop up when they played thattape of you know he was like.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
You know the son was like.
What's a good memory.
You have a mom, it's like whenshe made this tape.
I just knew that was gonnahappen again and then there was
one other time the scarf scarf,which was actually a last time,
which probably was just.
You know, I have PTSD, so that'spart of you know.
Your mind when you have PTSDpaints the worst case scenario,
and so I kept, you know, lookingat this story, I just kept

(47:23):
thinking it was going to happenLike at the end, after
everything was wrapped up, likethe very end when they showed
the lady who was kept by thekiller and she was now in the
hospital and she's gettingbetter and her parents are there
and she's finally waking up andshe writes a note.
Why?
In my mind I was like what ifshe wrote on there kill alex

(47:45):
cross.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
And then it starts all the way over like it could
have easily went that and it wasa pause for them to read it, so
it could have went very dark.
And you're right, it was thatmoment where, oh boy, would she
write it?
Oh, this is not going to endlike we thought.
Right, it's not going to gowell.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
I remember when they read that I was like what if it
said kill Alex Cross?
Read that I was like what if itsaid kill alex cross?
Yeah, because everything justkept coming to get him.
Everything in this show waslike we got to get him.
So and that was another point Iwanted to touch on.
You touched on it a little bit,but the cynical mind that we
programmed to is there's no waythese two black men are gonna
stay loyal to each other.

(48:26):
Yep, and I'm not.
That's not me pointing thefinger, that's me saying I
thought that I personally waslike it's gotta be his best
friend, like, I mean, they'retoo close, they it's too perfect
.
But why is that too perfect justfor two black men to have
loyalty like that and to be thatclose.
But in my mind it was like no,you can't have two black men

(48:47):
like this that are painted asbrothers and so close.
They're in each other's family.
One of them is going to turntheir back and although that
will be painful to watch, I kindof expect it right because why
he knows so much about his wifeand why he doing this and why he
doing that.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
and then, even when they did split up, it was like,
oh, he probably in on it and oh,he probably working with them
and and it's like to see everymoment like, no, he's actually
doing this and he's really doingthat.
And it was just like, oh shoot,we had a felon there Dang on
rabbit hole.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Now granted, that was great writing.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
I'm sure they wanted us to feel that way.
They absolutely wanted that.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
But the way that real art does it plays on real life.
They wrote that because theyknew most people would instantly
think there's no way these twomen are going to stay loyal to
each other.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Yeah, and I'm so happy that they were able to
resolve, like even when he cameto him and gave the apology.
We had to go back and see thatagain, because I just loved it.
She said we had to go back Yomy wife.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
I'm the rewind queen so clearly was like you're going
to have to bring that back.
Babe.
I didn't even ask no questions.
Did I, did I, you did?
I'll reround that bad boy allthe way back to.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Before that rewind queen.
I'm gonna let y'all know I, ifit's a good scene, I want to see
it again I don't want to waitto see it.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
I want to see it again right then and there
sometimes I I complain,sometimes I begrudgingly rewind,
or I just rewind a little bitand she be like, nope, that
ain't enough.
But this time I was like, nah,this is pretty clear, she gonna
want to see that whole thing.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Yeah, I want to see it from the beginning, when he
came to him and he said what hesaid.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
And, by the way, we talking about the scene in the
episode called you had Me AtMotherfucker.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
We talking about the scene in the episode called.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
You had Me at Motherfucker.
You had Me at Motherfucker,which, as soon as I saw that
title, I was like I knew whenthey deliver this line that's
going to be dope, it was perfect.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
I mean his apology granted.
It took forever for him to giveit to him and he was in dire
need of him when he gave it, itwas perfect, he did.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
It was a very good apology.
That was rare, because there'sa lot of people that give a
genuine apology, but they stillignore the fact that the only
reason they are there is becausethey need you again and you can
see how to john was like,genuinely like, oh, wow, oh, and
you address that.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
You could see the shock on his face.
Like oh man all right I'mgetting a, I'm p addressing
everything and I appreciate thatbecause that was that's.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
That's always the first thing that can be you.
Somebody can come back at youwith it's like, yeah, I hear you
.
But why you?
You only here because you needme.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Yep man, and I mean just the emotion that passed
through that moment, even onalex's face, that you hit it on
the nail.
He's so expressive in thisseries.
I mean they both were perfectin their lanes.
I did a really really good jobcasting both of them.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
He's a brooder, he, I'm telling you, he reminds me
of batman.
It's like all up in his faceand I think he does, and he is
impressive because he does itwithout the mask and, yeah,
really dope.
So, overall, what do you feelnow that we've?
Because we watched it, you knowyou always had an instant
reaction.
Then you need a moment tobreathe right now we've actually

(52:03):
rehashed it again.
So what do you think after allthat?

Speaker 2 (52:07):
oh, and it's another thing before we get there.
It was another thing, right,because they had him on video
attacking someone who he sawkilled his wife or was involved
with it, and I love that, youknow.
Oh, we thought the police chief, we thought everybody.
Okay, I ain't like old girlwith the gray hair, I was not
feeling her she wanted to bemayor, she was just trying to

(52:27):
wrap things up.
She wasn't trying to hear thatit was her boy that one was too.
It was too clean, though I waslike, yeah, it can't be her
because it's too in your faceshe was so on my nerves right I
just wanted to kick her but tosee, like you know, the video
dropped of him assaultingsomeone and then obviously he
had to go on leave and then er,yeah, that's what happened.
He reported it that they neededto go.

(52:48):
His boy reported it.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
So he went on leave twice.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Right after his wife got killed he went off on
somebody who thought did it andbeat up a black man beat up a
black man in the middle of dcand got filmed and it got filmed
and put out there for the news.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
So he was on leave for that, but then he got on
leave again during the showbecause he was accusing somebody
that nobody thought did it, andthen the chief.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
They took his badge while he was going through all
of this stuff with the serialkiller, the person who murdered
his wife came after him and hisfamily, and then the chief was
like here, I'm gonna get youyour badge back and we gonna
sweep all of this under the rug.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
And he was like I don't.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
he was really upset about that and I love that they
showed how upset he was aboutthat, because they gave a boy a
settlement and he still did aninterview with him to have the
conversation and allow that manto speak about what happened and
how he felt and why he ran and,you know, allowed them to have
the conversation that needed tobe had and allowed Alex to

(53:47):
apologize.
Um, I really appreciated thatthey included that in it.
And so, with that being said,and us being able to kind of
look at everything now from youknow, just talking about it, I
thought it was a good series.
I definitely see why peoplehyped it up again, like we were

(54:09):
going to watch it yesterday.
We're going to finish it upyesterday but it was like it's a
little too dark to watch onthanksgiving feel good we had a
great daylet's not do it today, let's,
you know, do it when we got sometime to really finish up and
watch it.
Um, I would probably give itabout a seven, seven and a half,
um, maybe even an eight.
I thought it was a good series.

(54:30):
I didn't think it was bad atall.
I thought it was really areally good watch.
I could see why people were I'mtalking about it.
Um, I would even give an eightand I would probably say about
an eight and a half her numberis going they are going up
because I mean it's really goodconversation in a minute.
It's not gonna be a 10, but it'sreally good conversation.
It was really really good.
You know it was entertaining.

(54:52):
I love the fact that you knowwe got to see, like you said, a
black, two black men being theleads.
I love that.
They showed DC some of thethings that happened in the city
, how they were going andrunning.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
The city was like a character.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
This guy, both of these murders, how they popped
up.
I love how it wrapped up.
At the end I thought, yes,there were some silly moments
that didn't make any sense, thatwe talked about in the dress
and how, you know, this man wasjust really.
He just had everybody in hispocket throughout the city.
So I mean, I think you know,even though there was some

(55:26):
moments where it was like thatdon't make no sense, I still
thought it was a very goodseries.
Now is it a little dark for mytaste?
Yes, that doesn't take awayfrom the fact that it's a good
series.
I just thought it was a littledark for me.
Would I be running to watchanother Alex Cross series this
year to begin it up next year?
No, I'm just gonna keep onhunting with y'all.

(55:47):
It's probably gonna take me acouple weeks to get into it and
we're gonna have to watch itduring the day because that's
just how I get down.
I don't care if you laugh at me, that's just how it is.
Okay, I mean, it's just someseries that everybody talk about
and I'm just, um, I will notwatch.
I just won't.
So I mean, it doesn't take awayfrom it being a good series, it
just is not something.
It's it's not my preference.

(56:08):
So yeah, that's, those are mythoughts wow, I think I'm.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
I'm pretty much at the exact same place are you?

Speaker 2 (56:16):
yeah, yeah, now, that's kind of surprising I know
, right, it was definitely dark.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Um, just more more killing, just like graphic
killing, than that I really liketo get into um, and it's like
that's part of the story, rightlike this is integral, that you
have to see this happen and seethat happen, so that kind of
thing.
It was a little heavy in thatarea.
Um, I'll probably go seven anda half or eight, I don't know if

(56:45):
I'll go up to eight and a halfjust yet.
Only because I just had so andagain, this is not necessarily
meaning it's a bad story.
I just really didn't enjoy thehorrible shoddy police work they
was doing.
Man, now I mean, I always liketry to play devil's advocate
with myself, though, like let'ssay that wasn't the case, let's
say they were great at thepolice work.

(57:05):
Would that have made the storybetter?
and probably not no, so that'swhy I always I'm temper, my, my,
uh, my comments where it's likeI'm not saying this made it bad
.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
I just didn't enjoy seeing them flub so many yeah,
police work things, but or likethe witness that they got and
yes really big one.
They got a witness and thenthey put them in a safe house
and then killed him.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Yeah, what they were horrible at all of those things
but that technically wasn'talex's fault technically true.
True, but my wife went off onme y'all we had a conversation
about it because he's like heshould have kept the witness
hidden, but how?

Speaker 2 (57:49):
but?

Speaker 1 (57:49):
that's okay.
I will admit that's a stretch.
I'm just going off where Iwould have been thinking I would
not have.
There's so many this.
There's a lot of points in thisshow where I just would have
approached things with thosestakes way differently like a
couple of times, like with thelady hiding behind the door.
There's no way I wouldn'talready been ready to strike

(58:10):
within second one.
Like there's no hesitation.
Or even when they were in thecabin the moment the boy showed
her.
This woman is going to kill us.
I'm going to kill her right now.
I'm not waiting around andplaying no game and trying to
hesitate because, guess what,she ain't got no backup right
now.
We she think we all ha, ha, he,he in.
Yeah, I got the advantage.

(58:31):
If I wait and try to play some,she's gonna figure it out.
She's an evil killer.
Yep, she gonna know what's I'mgonna lose my advantage.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
You know you're right .
Yeah, you're right, because Imean, she was willing to sell
out her own daughter, which youknow, oh boy had to find out
because she blamed it on cross.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
So yeah, she was willing to sell out her own
daughter you see that pictureyou it's like like were saying
she did this this long.
Yeah, like what John Sampsonsaid she went to get trained at
your school to get in with yourlike that's a long game.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
I mean they both were doing a long game the.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
moment you see that I'm like I'm killing this woman.
I'm not waiting around forsomebody that would do all of
that.
Yeah that's true.
I'm sitting here with thesekids.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Yeah, that, yeah, that's true.
I'm not.
I'm sitting here with thesekids.
Yeah, you're right, there's noway trying to drug her drink.
Yeah, it didn't work.
I don't go to sleep like whatdoes she have?
And it was only supposed to belike a little bit, so they made
it seem like she didn't haveanything in there and it was
like a whole lot of that pill Idon't understand what she even
put in there.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
She's not that the killer.
I can see if the killer doinghe.
Of course he got lethal drugsprobably had some regular
over-the-counter absolutelydidn't know.
That's why you don't play themgames.
Yeah, I agree, because for onejust to even get to the point to
drug or drink, she had to sitthere and act.

(59:49):
Yes, what if you're not good atit?
What if she see there's toomuch risk?
too, and and that's exactly whatit was right, because as soon
as they came in a room, she wasthere ready she was ready, yeah,
I agree, I give it and I thinkI agree with you, I think I'll
give it a solid eight yeah, yeah, but this is and again, a lot

(01:00:10):
of my uh, the knocks on it isjust really really hollywood
knocks.
It's not really knocks on theshow, but hollywood has to do
certain things to make it moreintriguing.
Right, like the fact that whenpeople's lives are on the line,
they get real like squeamy andlike squirmy and flailing.
Oh my god help.
But really, uh, most of thetime in human nature people jump

(01:00:34):
.
They can raise they self tobeing a killer, just like they
kill her.
You know what I'm saying?
It's like a lot of people ain'tgonna just be like, oh, help,
help.
But I know they gotta do thatfor, for tv and stuff like that.
But I'm always disappointedwhen that happens.
But like when, when the ladyfinally did get him, she started
getting the best of thatgirlfriend I was like come on

(01:00:55):
man, you gonna let the grandmabe.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Come on you're right it was like girl, but I mean
obviously this chick.
You know she wasn't ready right, she wasn't ready.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
That girl was pretty proper.
Once you see somebody clearlyis an insane murderer, you got
to step your game up.
You can't just, it's ain't noregular fight.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Right, it's not a regular, just like what?
Old girl with the bottle.
It's like what are you doing?
And you know, and it was somany moments of the show like
you have him with his maskcovering up his face so people
wouldn't know who he was, andhe's part of this creepy club.
First of all, the image of himwith his mask covering up his
face so people wouldn't know whohe was.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
He's part of this creepy club first of all, the
image of him with that mask onis creepy as it gets and then
you got all these people thatare also in the club doing this
work.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Yeah, so my number changing y'all it's going down.
I mean, again, it's not a badshow.
I don't think it's a bad show,but it did have just so so was
it better than reasonable doubtthough not even in the same
genre, can't even compare them,true true.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Well, I mean, for me I feel like it is kind of.
I look at it as kind of like aflip side of it, because this is
a thriller this is a thriller.
There was some thriller elementsof reasonable doubt, with with
the dude capturing her andkidnapping her and killing
himself.
It's more drama.
It was more drama, you're right, but I look at it as the like,
as a writer.
What they are ultimatelystarting with is a character.

(01:02:20):
Right, they're trying to showthe complex life of this
character, who is a superstar atwhat they do, but have all of
these complications around themin their life.
So I thought you know, betweenalex Cross and what was that
girl's name?
For a reasonable doubt, jax.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Jax.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Jax Stewart or something like that Between Alex
Cross and Jax Stewart.
I thought you know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Jacqueline.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
I think I do think they did a good job of showing
some very complex characters whohave one thing that they are
superstars at, but there's somany other things in their life
that they are either failing ator struggling at or having a
hard time, and it's there'sparenthood, there's people
trying to kill them, there'sromance, there's it's all kind

(01:03:04):
of stuff.
So I thought.
And then they balance multiplemain storylines on top of those
characters, so in my mind I waslooking at them as similar.
I don't know which one Ithought was better.
I just threw that question out.
I like this show, though I giveit a seven and a half strong.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Strong seven and a half, and I say eight.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Yeah, I am.
Would I watch season two whenit rolls out?
Yeah, it had to be the righttime and I probably would want
to binge more, just because youdon't want that over too many
days.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
I agree.
I mean we were ready for it tobe over.
It was like, oh, can we stillgot one more?
Okay?
Yeah it was.
It was a lot and we have been.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
I mean, we've been trying to get back here with
y'all to give some more content.
Um, you know we've been rockingand rolling in our new city.
You know god gave us newterritory, we set up shop.
We've been loving it.
There are some struggles, soyou know some ups and downs, as
always with anything, but youcount your blessings right.
So when we were given ourThanksgiving yesterday, one of

(01:04:16):
the things that we could reallylook back on is the time that we
get to spend together.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Watching a show like this, a show like Reasonable
Doubt for you know me and Babeto be able to sit down and enjoy
some time together and talk andtalk about each other's
opinions and takes.
That's really what we like to doand it's a blessing that we get
the opportunity to do it yes umyou know, right now babe has
been on leave, so we've had alittle bit more time, but it's

(01:04:43):
still kind of hard for us tofind enough time together to sit
down and watch these shows,particularly a show like this,
because we gotta keep it awayfrom our kids yeah, we do, and
we have to stop it every timethey come close, really hearing
it or seeing anything that'llpop up on the screen like blood
and gore and brains and it was alot of that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
And you know our kids do, man, they come in on the
worst part like soon as I'mabout to happen and I mean our
kids are sensitive, so that'snot really anything that they
really want to see.
We, you know, we don't.
I mean, granted, they watch allkinds of stuff on youtube
anyway, but still, like we, wedon't have to expose them to
anything crazy or traumatic likethat.
Then we're not going to.
So I'm just trying to find theright time to watch stuff like

(01:05:29):
that and then it's like it's sodark.
Do we really want this to cloudup our great day?
that we're having, like if we'rehaving a date day or something,
or if we can go step out tolunch really quickly, it's like,
uh, do we really want thisenergy to sit on it?
Do we want our spirit to befunneled down with this type of
energy from this show?

(01:05:49):
Maybe?

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
not right now.
That's why I was yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
It was just like absolutely not today.
Nope, we're all in good spiritI don't want to end the day on
this dark, you know traumaticmovie.
This.
You know this guy is trying tokill his family and it was too
much beat up, mama nanaeverybody got hurt.
Somehow it was crazy so yeah,like I said, I don't want to, I

(01:06:16):
don't want to take it downbecause I didn't particularly
care for a lot of it, but at thesame time, you know, it's part
of your review it's part of myreview, yeah, and I mean you
know they did it, they did good.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
I was happy to see it end on a really good note for
everybody I think that'simportant because it's going to
be a lot of people out there whomay not have seen it and yeah,
they may not.
They may be like you know whatI'm like you, I don't really
like getting into stuff likethat, you know especially in the
daytime.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
You know a lot of people.
I mean, we've seen quite a fewpeople say that they loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
You, know, and so yeah yeah, they got a good
formula.
Um, I hope they do make aseason two I absolutely do too I
hope it's great again.
Like babe said, we might notwatch it right away.
Uh, we have to find the righttime to squeeze it in, but I
hope they do, just for thesuccess of stories yes,
absolutely give them another goat it for the next season and

(01:07:08):
and hopefully bring back all ofthe characters too.
Yeah, and shout out to JamesPatterson.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Yes, James.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Do your thing, hopefully.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
Yeah, he got children's books now y'all, I
saw that.
Yeah, I grabbed a couple fromthe library for the kids to
check out.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Yeah, hopefully I'll be the next James Patterson.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Baby, you're going to be bigger than that okay, look
at that.
We're putting that intoexistence right now in Jesus
name Okay yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
So yeah, stay tuned for that, y'all, cause I just
finished my first fiction novel.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
You did y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
It's in the hands of a couple of beta readers, my
babe being number one betareader.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Indeed indeed.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
And yeah, y'all gonna hear more about it on all of
the podcasts.
I'll make some videos and stuffover the next few months as we
figure out the publishing routeand avenue.
But yeah, we wanted to be ajourney that we all on,
including y'all, so rock with us.
Y'all all right, we appreciatey'all for joining us here on
this review.
It's always fun this, thisthanksgiving leftover day yeah,

(01:08:05):
so we've been smashing on yo, welove y'all.
Man, keep rocking and join usagain here later for some more
on the Open Book Podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Peace.