Reasonable Doubt Season 1: In-Depth Review

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
just break things.
Feel free to break everything.
Really, what's up love?
Hey honey, how's it feel to bein a new studio?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
it feels great to be in a new studio yeah, does this
feel like?
Have we started?
Um, maybe maybe, maybe, okayit's up to us you know, whenever
we say whenever we say we'regoing is when we're going it's
like E40.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
What do you say?
Tell me when to go, gow, gow,gow.
Tell me when to gow.
How you feeling, babe, I feelgood love.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
How do you feel?

Speaker 1 (00:41):
I feel, off and on but I feel good right now.
Okay, I am eager to do the show.
I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm excited that my babe is excited because we got
to get to season two, we do wedo.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
I'm behind the eight ball y'all.
Y'all hear all of thatratcheting and stuff.
That's me getting the studiotogether.
Yo, welcome back welcome fam,hello, hello book podcast it's
been a while it's been a whilewe are here recording live from

(01:18):
wake forest, north carolina.
Now we we're in a differentlocation.
We pick things up and dropthings off and now we down here
south of the Mason Dixon anddoing our thing in the US south.
Do we feel south?

Speaker 2 (01:34):
But you got a southern accent yet I do not
have a southern accent, yet it'scoming y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Babe can pick up accents.
I can pick them up quick, Justlike that.
What was we at, babe?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Was it?
Orlando it was, and we wastalking to this Jamaican lady.
Was she Jamaican?

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Somewhere around there and I had to stop myself.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
I was like, oh no, I started talking exactly like her
and I'm like, oh, I don't wantto be offensive, I know, because
she might think you wasclowning I was not.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
I was just so fascinated at her beautiful
accent and I just picked it uplike oh, yes, yeah, you do that,
though.
You absorb energy and you startreflecting it back yeah, I try
yeah I think I don't even thinkyou try?

Speaker 2 (02:17):
I think it's you think it's just part of me.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
I think it's part of who I am yeah, because I think I
see it happen a lot and I'mlike she don't even know what
she's doing.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
No, I just be, I just be being me.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
You do, you do.
So we're going to give you alla quick update.
We did move during the summer.
We moved.
It's been taking up a lot ofour time.
We've had some, some healthjourneys.
We've been, we've been growing,We've been doing.
God called us and said you knowwhat?
It's time to step into some newterritory.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Um, I need y'all to go out to a new place.
Um, I will show you the way ifyou stay close to me.
And we just kind of it took usa while, took us a few years,
and now we in a new place.
Yes, I've been back and forthto Cleveland, quite often

(03:19):
actually since August I've beenback and forth to Cleveland
quite often.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Actually, since August I've been back and forth
to Cleveland for work, formedical reasons.
So we have relocated me.
But it's a lot for all of us.
It's emotionally draining,physically draining.
I'd be like where my wife at.
It's a lot.
The kids don't like it, babedon't like it, I don't like it.
But you know we got to do whatwe have to do for right now.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
We do and it's a blessing, you know we always got
to be reminded to count ourblessings.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
And God is with us through this.
I mean, he's been with me everytravel that I've been there.
He's been, you know, in themidst of me building a great
support system in Cleveland.
Shout out to my sis Q, my sisKim, my auntie Kim.
You know my sister, my sister,I do, I had.
You know, it's one of thosethings where you don't realize
my sister Simone, you don'treally realize that you have a
great support system until youhave a great support system.

(04:13):
You know, it's one of thosethings that smack you in the
face and I'm just so thankful toum, to God, for me having a
really great circle of peoplethat really care about me.
I've had a lot of people reachout to me just to check on me,
to see how I'm doing, and I'mvery, very grateful for that.
So, thank you all, appreciatey'all, love y'all, and so yeah.
So here we are.

(04:35):
We are able to finally be backin the lab.
We've been planning this for acouple months now, but time has
just not really been on our sideto do it.
So we decided that we weregoing to come to y'all with a
review, since, you know, we'vebeen on the times that I have in
here we've been able to kind of, you know, spend some QT and

(04:58):
catch up on some some TV, and wehave been watching Reasonable
Doubt.
So I've been watching this withBabe, season one, but I have
already plowed through seasontwo with my sis Q.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Y'all go too fast.
Listen, women want it.
Where my fellas at?
I'm sure y'all understand Womengo fast.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, we don't play no games Like when we in it, we
in it And'd like to chat aboutit and and and have a
conversation.
So, yeah, it's been interestingand, um, you know, I saw this
series a while ago and I don'treally watch a lot of TV.
To be quite honest, I'm usuallyon my phone, um, and so I don't

(05:43):
really do much TV.
But my sister told me aboutthis show.
She was like you really got tocheck it out and I was like I
don't really know, but I got toseason one and watched it and
was like hmm, and then got toseason two and start telling
babe about it and then was ableto pull him in.
So we just thought it'd be agreat idea for us to come
together and and really talkabout our thoughts about season

(06:07):
one before we head into seasontwo, since it just ended.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
How did it feel?
How hard was it to pull me in?

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Very.
He was not even remotelyinterested at all at all, but I
think it was the hype, it was alot of hype around season two.
He was just kind of like youknow, let me check out season
one.
You think that's what it wasthe hype, it was a lot of hype
around season two that he wasjust kind of like you know what.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Let me check out season one.
You think that's what it was.
Be honest with me, what do youthink it was?
I think that.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
I think was the hype.
I think you saw a lot of peopletalking about it and he was
like you know what?

Speaker 1 (06:34):
all right, all right, I'll watch it all right, I'm
gonna tell y'all what it is.
Man and I told you this.
I talked about this while wewas watching it.
I was very hesitant to get intothis show.
I mean, I don't want this tocome off wrong.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Say what you feel.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
It felt like a woman-y show.
I mean it can be.
It felt like insecure, yeah, orscandal.
It felt like a woman justhaving a lot of sex with a lot
of dudes in a lot of scenes thatare made for women to really
appreciate and I got no problemwith that, but you don't think
you did demographic for it.
Yeah, I'll be like I don'treally want to see.

(07:14):
No, no, yeah, that ain't mything but it didn't happen like
that stuff off the kitchencounter and let's have sex with
this person, I mean.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
And even if it was that, so I'm asking you to hey,
babe, why don't you check thisshow out?
And first off, I'm not going tohave you watch a show that I do
think is specifically for mydemographic, or a woman I
shouldn't even say my woman'sdemographic.
I wouldn't even think that youwould be interested and I
wouldn't try to get you to watchit.
But this show is not that, andwe've watched tons of shows

(07:44):
together.
It's a lawyer show.
We've watched Lincoln Lawyer.
We've watched quite a few showstogether that I mean.
Granted, lincoln Lawyer, isn'tthis like this.
But I just thought that theculture of the show would
interest you, would be appealingto you.
The show has a great soundtrack.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
And that was to be fair.
That was one was the firstthing you told me it was like
the music dope, you're gonna digit.
And when it first came on itwas like jay reasonable doubt.
I was like I know, I see whatbabe doing, I see this.
I see the connection she madein my mind.
I was like it ain't gonna work.
It ain't gonna work.
This is not gonna get me tolike a woman he show just
because they got jay-z on thesoundtrack.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
That's what I was thinking that's what he was
thinking at first, but by theend of the season he was like so
let's get into season two.
So there we go I cannot lie.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
I cannot lie, so with no further ado, let's let's get
into what we're talking about.
Right, the show reasonabledoubt created for Hulu.
Right, let's give the IMDbtagline says in the high stakes
world of LA law, jack Stewart isyour go-to defense attorney,
who fights against the odds bothin and out of the courtroom.

(08:57):
What you think about that.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, I can agree with that.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, I mean the out of the courtroom it's a lot, a
lot of that.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, it's a lot.
Who went a?

Speaker 1 (09:10):
whole lot of courtroom for a while yeah, but
that's okay.
They had to set up the storythey did all right, so let's go
with a full description.
Right, reasonable doubt.
It centers around jack stewart,an exceptionally talented
defense attorney in la, knownfor her unorthodox methods and
tenacity.
The show delves into hercomplicated personal life and

(09:33):
how it intersects with herprofessional responsibilities,
navigating intense legal battlesand personal crises yeah, yep,
I can agree with that.
All right, the creator.
You know, my thing is, I'malways like the first thing I
thought who made?

Speaker 2 (09:50):
this show.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Right, who made it?
You know we watch a lot ofshows right.
Sometimes it's what's my manthat made Black-ish.
I can't recall his name rightnow.
You know the guy, though.
And he ended up making Mixedand grownish and black af and
all that yep or you know,sometimes it's uh, shonda, right
, we all know shonda do herthing.
Shonda land productions.

(10:12):
Hopefully they sign our showone day.
So shonda, let's doing herthing, love it.
But you can tell a shondacreated show, you know, it's
trademarks, right.
So my first thing was who madethis?
And so turns out the series wascreated by ramallah muhammad
and correct me if I'm gettingthis wrong, but ramallah,
ramallah muhammad, she's awriter and a producer renowned

(10:34):
for her work on scandal so herewe go with the shangitais and
little fires everywhere yeah, sokerry washington

Speaker 2 (10:42):
is also very much involved in both of these, yeah
right.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
So it says ramallah is.
She is of somali descent andshe's from la.
So here we go.
You know a lot of her story istied in there, so she often
infuses her own narratives withdeep cultural and social themes.
She's noted for saying I writefrom what I know, and what I
know is complex characters andcomplex situations, and I think

(11:09):
that shows up here I agree youknow to her credit.
I apologize, rambler, if youlisten to this.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
It wasn't what I thought it was no, you just need
to give it a chance.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
It wasn't what I thought it was gonna be, because
even I was opposed to watchingit I remember when you watched
it, when you watched the firstseason, because you watched the
first season before I did.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
I did.
I did Again.
My sis Q recommended me towatch it and I just I had a very
difficult time but I'm gladthat I did and moved into season
two.
And you know it was greatbecause season one was filmed, I
think, two years ago.
It was filmed a few years ago,see, for season two to come in

(11:50):
and just be finishing up thisyear, just this month.
So that worked out great for meto be able to just catch right
up.
I did that with Insecure aswell.
I didn't start that until lateand then by the time it came
back.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
No, you didn't.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
By the time it came back, it was right there at the
final season, so I was able tobe right where I needed to be.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
I got a question for you, since you did watch it
before me.
This is a phenomenon I've seenhappen.
I don't know if it happens allthe time, maybe it don't happen
to you, but I remember when youwas watching it you was like in
the other room and I was like,hey, how was it?
I wasn't.
You was like I don't know, andthen by the end of it you was
locked in.
But you still didn't know ifyou loved it, loved it, right,

(12:37):
and I kept thinking like, is itthat she really don't love it,
or is it that we're not watchingit together?
Because I've seen, and I'm notsaying this just about me.
I've seen it plenty of times,where I've seen a show where I'm
like, yo, this is going to bedope, me and babe can watch it.
It don't end up working and wecan watch it.
So I watch it, and then I'mlike halfway in, I'm like I

(13:05):
wonder how I would have felt ifwe actually would have watched
it together.
Oh, that is so sweet.
That is not how it was for me.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
She's like nah, bro, I was all the way in.
It would have been great towatch it with you.
I thoroughly enjoy watching itwith you, so I'm glad that you
did come back around because ithelped me appreciate the season
a lot better watching it withyou than watching it by myself
because, like I said, I you know, um, I actually missed one of
the episodes.

(13:30):
I had to go back and watch itand so it didn't get the same
feel.
But like going back andre-watching it, it was just and
so.
Just so you guys know, as wewere watching, because I was
kind of telling jay about it aswe, as I was watching it and my
feelings and thoughts I don'tthink he remembered half the
stuff I said, though when wewatched it together, but we did
not talk about the episodes aswe went through each one,

(13:53):
because we wanted to save it forthis review.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
We was looking out for y'all.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
So yeah, you want to jump in.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Let's go into the.
Wait one thing I want to doreally quick.
I want to jump in.
Let's go into the.
Oh wait, one great one thing Iwant to do really quick.
I want to talk about theseactors, because I've never seen
these people before.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yes, amyazi cornoldi, I've not seen her in anything
yeah, what that name did shejust say, or?
Um mckinney um mckinley,mckinley freeman.
I haven't seen him in anythingas well.
Now.
The children, I think I've seenthem.
I think I've seen the son insomething I just can't recall
what it was.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
I thought the son did a great job um, and the
daughter.
I can't remember if I've seenher in anything either but let's
, let's back up to the first,the main three that I consider.
Right, imyatsi cornyaldi, whoplays jack stewart right, she's
the star.
She kind of reminds me of thelady who plays the mother on

(14:50):
power book 2 uh, raising canaanbut um, she is an american
actress.
She's of panamanian andafrican-american descent.
She's known for compellingperformances.
She brings depth and complexityto the character.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, she did a great job.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Fierce and brilliant defense attorney.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
She looks like a baby doll to me.
Her face is pretty.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
She is known for her roles in Middle of Nowhere and
the Red Line.
I've never seen those.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
No, I've not seen those either.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, so this was a completely new face for me.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yep, same for me, and I thought that they did a
phenomenal job with her.
Her fashion, her style, her wigwas a different story, but her
fashion was amazing.
She rocked every single outfit.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
I loved her face.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
I mean, she just fit the part.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Well, she got the body of a model.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
She just looked phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
She did Super tall, beautiful, super long and
lengthy.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Cultured.
Yeah, she just fit.
Everything about her fit.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
I did think her face.
It took me a minute to get usedto it because you know you're
used to seeing a familiar facein that starring role.
To see a new face took me aminute, but I do think she
brought a lot of complexity tothe role.
Her face her wig, like you said, was another thing.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
I mean, you know, I got it.
She had to have her work do andher not work do and her girl do
, and you know, I get it, andthey did do a good job of
showing the difference betweenthe two the flashback do.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
They did a good job and then McKinley Freeman is her
husband, louis Stewart anotherphenomenal actor.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
He did such a great job with this role, just perfect
.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
That was a very complex role, they said this
dude played in Hit the Floor andDaytime Divas.
I'm not familiar with eitherone of those.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Me either.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
So it looked, you know.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Nice to see fresh faces.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Fresh faces.
Very, very nice to see freshfaces you know, I saw a quote
from 50 Cent recently where hewas saying if you got really
good ideas, you shouldn't try tomake a movie, you should try to
make a show, because you can'tmake a movie without stars, but
a show you can make with freshfaces, and I thought that was
pretty interesting and you cansee a good example here.
Um, although this next nameabout the name is the is the

(17:01):
star power, michael ely michaelely plays damon cook, or as I
called him the first fiveepisodes prison bay listen
this is the reason why I thoughtthe show was what I thought it
was, because so much of what Ihad seen centered around
basically a prison bay lovestory.

(17:22):
Right like this successful,powerful attorney is gonna fall
in love with this dude fromprison.
So michael ely plays that damoncook.
We all know michael ely, umsuper complex actor, brings the
whole crazy eyebrow thing thathe do where his eyebrow be
looking like a w and into allthis scene a lot, a lot of pain

(17:44):
and complexity in it.
You know I'm always looking atfaces because a lot of actors it
starts with your face.
That's how you get cast and youcan see why he gets cast.
He's a very interesting faceand he shows a lot of complexity
in his face but he's played ineverything Y'all know Barbershop
, think Like a man, almost Human, bel-air.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
He's been in everything right.
Michael Ealy is.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Michael Ealy.
He does his thing.
A very nuanced performance wasasked for him here, and let's
get into it.
Let's get into the story.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
So, yeah, we start off with episode one.
We go right into meeting Jaxand Louis, and you know the
dynamic of their family rightnow.
They're separated, you know,even though right into that they
go, they go right into it?

Speaker 1 (18:32):
how are they?
What are they?
What happened?

Speaker 2 (18:34):
it's just, we hit, we already separate yeah, they go
right into showing them stilldoing life together, separated,
separately, deal doing lifetogether, kind of having their
kids go back and forth, um, youknow, between homes I thought it
was interesting that theyshowed that church thing so
early, like it looked like theywas living together because they

(18:55):
all getting ready in the samehouse.
Yeah, but he don't live therewell, I think it was the, did
not the dynamic of them stilltrying to, you know, be
committed to their marriage eventhough they're separated?
they're still trying to, youknow, be committed to their
marriage even though they'reseparated.
They're still trying to dothings as a family and you know,
church being one of them.
And you know, of course, theydon't want to have a broken home

(19:15):
for the kids, even thoughobviously they're going through
some things and the kids areaffected, still trying to make
things work and try to operatenormally.
And you know, maybe some ofthat has to do with the kids are
affected, still trying to makethings work and try to operate
normally.
And you know, maybe some ofthat has to do with the kids,
maybe some of that has to dowith her career, because she's,
you know, in the public lightand she may not want anybody to
know that she's going through aseparation with her husband

(19:37):
right now.
And, you know, are they tryingto make things work.
So, even though they're livingseparately, how can they come
together, um, and kind of getthat fire back, even though you
know things are a little rockyright now?

Speaker 1 (19:51):
it was definitely interesting.
You got to see um again.
I went.
I wanted to know who wrotethese things right, like who
does every episode out of thesame writer.
Uh, I thought it was reallyinteresting that the creator
wrote the first three episodesbut she did not write the other
six and it's interesting,obviously, that this whole album

(20:11):
, or this whole show, is basedoff of jay-z's album yeah
because all of the episodes havea title from one of his songs
on his album.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
So the very first album is can't not.
I mean very first episode iscan't knock the hustle, and
we're just kind of introduced tojacks who jacqueline, but they
call her jacks we are introducedto her, her like her life her
work, life her work life, whatshe has to do and deal with
while she's at work, being theonly black criminal defense

(20:42):
attorney in the office yeah withall of these white males right,
right away immediately her andher um her black team or her her
color team because, daniel isnot.
He's um korean he's a plc,though he's a person of color
yeah, he's a person of color, soyou have him, and then you also

(21:03):
have her assistant, crystal.
So you know she they call itthe black world of the office
Right and them having to.
Yeah, the first episode wassomething you know was pretty

(21:26):
interesting.
Um, I wouldn't say it startedout slow, I think it was just a
lot that kind of happened in thefirst episode because you got a
chance to meet her mom, who wasdenzel washington's wife right,
so that was really cool to seeher.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
How many, how many of y'all knew that was her?
I did not you know what?

Speaker 2 (21:46):
I saw?
That she was in something andit did not click that that was
who she that was until I watchedit with you yeah, yeah, it took
me a second.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
I saw her the first time and then the second time I
was like I literally did see thename Pauletta Washington in the
credits.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
So yeah, that's her yeah, and we and I mean it was
so much, I mean we got to seeher, her mom, her stepfather
paul, and you know, seeing thatthere was some you know,
tumultuous things going on there, we got to see the turmoil.
They don't tell you how, youdon't get to know the depth of

(22:22):
that, they just flash that for asecond at first yeah, you just
get to see that she got a lotgoing on yeah and that she not
really being I mean, you see hersister friend group you get to
see that she just got a lot ofstuff going on and she really
don't have the capacity to dealwith everything as a wife, as a,
as a daughter, as a mother, asa professional, a lot as a

(22:45):
friend.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Everything is complicated right.
So I and to me I think, likeyou said it, not necessarily
that it was a slow burn, but itwas a lot I do think that's one
of the things that kind ofcaught me off guard, because I
felt like it was a slow burn too, but when I, when you really
think about it, it just had adifferent.
It feels to me like it wasdifferent than most shows,

(23:07):
whereas most shows is likehere's the main plot and then
here's one or two side plots,whereas this one was like they,
almost all was the main plot,like, yeah, her I mean, because
I still don't know what wouldyou say is her and Damon the
main plot or is her defendingthe dude the main plot?

Speaker 2 (23:28):
no, she has so many things.
I mean you got her and herhusband, her and her children.
You got her and her work life.
You have her in this highprofile case that she's about to
pick up with Braylon.
She got um Damon.
That comes back into thepicture from her having his case
16 years ago.
You have her and hergirlfriends.
You have her and her mom.

(23:48):
You have her and her stepfather.
I mean, no, she is literallytrying to juggle all of this at
once.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
And that's that was interesting.
Interesting, but I mean it.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
It goes back to this quote that I pulled from, uh,
the lady who created it, whereshe said I write from what I
know, and what I know is complexcharacters in complex
situations and I mean I think itremember originally, I thought
my first thought about this showwas like okay, this is kind of
like a rip of scandal, right,like I mean, it's just kind of
like and I can't even say theshow didn't start, the show

(24:30):
wasn't fast-paced, it was just alot going on.
It wasn't, like you know, likea scandal where it's like boom,
boom, boom, boom.
It was just like, okay, thishas happened, oh, and this is
happening and this didn't happen.
So it was just kind of likegirl, when do you have a second
to breathe, right?
but yeah you can't see that onher because she coming in there
sharp booted you know what I'msaying?

(24:51):
She looking the part untilafter hours where you see she
drinking, she smoking.
She got all of this stuff goingon.
She got what?
Does she have a um personalnight guard on the house?

Speaker 1 (25:02):
it's just a whole series of things see, I will say
, like that, that part, like forthe first three episodes and,
like I said, that's why I alwayswant to know who wrote it.
So the creator creates thiswhole story and she wrote the
first three episodes.
So, as you're adapting it fortv, she was the one who created
those first three.
And that's when that storylinereally heated up about her

(25:24):
husband's not in the house.
He hired a professional guardto sit outside the security dude
, by the way, who sucked likewhen he first had a chance to
actually fight.
Dude lost in like three seconds.
What you go?

Speaker 2 (25:39):
yep okay, he sucked.
You didn't like him.
He was horrible.
Okay, come on, you'reprofessional.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
We ain't there yet okay, so the first three
episodes.
This dude's sitting outside,you know.
You know she gonna have sexwith the dude.
It's just if they spoon fed itto you that's not no, they
didn't.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
But okay, keep, maybe .
No, I mean, yes, let me tellyou what happened at the end of
the first episode.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
I had no doubt she was going to have sex with this
man.
I knew it and when it playedout, that was one of the reasons
why I was like oh man, thisshow about to be exactly what I
thought it was, but it didn't.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
It grew and you know it wasn't like she was doing it.
Now this obviously is notsomething that I'm condoning,
but you could clearly seebecause lewis got the house all
rigged up with all these camerasyou could clearly see that she
wanted him to see that she wasdoing what she was doing and he
wanted to see and he wanted tosee.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, it was literally like a game for them
which was also interesting initself.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
It was yeah because it's like what type of stuff are
y'all into, right, like y'allain't together.
But you know you ain't superupset about to run over there
because she got some man on thecouch.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
You like smiling at the camera.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
Y'all both smiling at the camera, so interesting okay
and that's I think you know.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Obviously she's showing that these are very
complex characters, right likethis is a complex woman.
She has a complex husband.
Everything about this situationis complex.
Their, their marriage, is in acomplex state.
We come right into it right ina complex state.
You're not even gonna get tosee how it got there, we're just
gonna jump right in.
But they do say why?

Speaker 2 (27:19):
because he gave her an ultimatum.
He felt like that she wasputting work over him in their,
their home life, which is youknow her feeling like.
But you had no problem with medoing these things to get us
here.
But now, all of a sudden, youhave a problem with it, and I'm.
You can't give me an ultimatum.
I'm always going to choose whatI'm doing.
You shouldn't even be puttingme in a position to choose which

(27:41):
is why they're separatedbecause she didn't choose him.
She chose work.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
So so we go from kane knocked the hustle to family
feud and 99 problems.
Those are the.
That's like the three episodesthat the creator wrote.
I don't know if maybe that'swhat she wrote to pitch the
story, to get it picked up.
But other writers and directorscome in later.
Specifically, other writerscome in later for every other

(28:06):
episode.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Now, this one was interesting because we got a
chance to see.
You know, she had to team upwith another.
Was it rich she?
had to team up with one of theguys in her office and you know
you got to see like immediatelyher get rejected by Brayden
because he didn't really want towork with her.
Right, because you know you seethis black guy, you see him

(28:29):
making all this money and nowyou know he don't really want to
deal with the other blackperson in the office because
he's used to dealing with whitepeople.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
He's looking at her like why are you even here?

Speaker 2 (28:43):
He was disgusted with her her like he didn't like her
.
He didn't like who was sherepresented like.
She came into that meeting,like you know oh, a fellow black
person and he was looking ather like nah boo, that ain't
what this conversation is about.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Like you could have stayed where you was at or
that's how he presented itbecause later he said he just
didn't like her because he knewthat she was see-through.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Because all he wants he was around was white people.
That was one of the things thatwas highly stressed through the
series is that, through thisseason anyway?
Is that he?
You know what did?
She call him An Oreo.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Yeah Now.
So ultimately, the storyrevolves around Jax being chosen
to represent this dude whoBraylon, who's basically like a
mogul Right, he's like a diddytype of whatever.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, he has a club.
His company, his liquor company, is called.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Clout Company.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
And he essentially had his.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Married to a white woman.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
He's married to a white woman.
He has Kalisha, who was on hisstaff, who essentially helped
introduce him to the urbancommunity, which is what drove
his sales up in the liquorcommunity, you know, for his
liquor to really be put outthere in the urban community,
which really kind of pivoted himfrom just being, you know,
struggling to get into theindustry.
So now he's about to be abillionaire.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, and so kalisha she ends up dead at the end of
this episode?

Speaker 2 (30:15):
yeah, and so at the end of last episode, yeah, so
he's he's on trial.
Braylon's on trial and now heneeds jacks, he's done it right,
right, because before he ain'tneed Jax, he was just there to
have Kalisha sign an NDA, butnow Kalisha came up dead.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
He wants Jax.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
He need Jax because she's the criminal defense
attorney and now he want to bebothered with her.
Now, in the midst of this, wegot Damon.
Now last episode, in episodeone, he was in jail.

(30:56):
This was a former case that shehad.
He was in jail for 16 years.
He did not commit the crime,see if he can get out on parole.
And he told her that that waswhat she was gonna do and she
was like, well, if you do that,then I'm never gonna talk to you
again and I ever, never.
And he did and he got out.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
So that's, we get a chance to see him in this
episode so now we're set up forall of the storylines except for
the last one which doesn't comeup till later in the season.
So essentially you get to seeher and her marriage to lewis,
which is on the rocks, her andher parenthood to her two kids.
She has a daughter and a son.

(31:32):
It's on the rocks because ofher marriage, so the kids are
going back and forth.
The son is really to the fatherand the daughter is kind of
just floating in between sheactually ends up having her
period for the first time.
So it's's like really astressful moment.
You also get to see Jax as aprofessional in her law firm.

(31:53):
She's a criminal attorney andthe most seasoned criminal
attorney.
So she gets called to a caseand at first the dude doesn't
want her.
Then he does want her, so weget to see it and then we also
get to see that she is, althoughshe's a high-ranking criminal
defense attorney for this bigfirm.
Now in the past she was kind ofbroke and she was a public

(32:16):
defense attorney and she hadbeen assigned to be the public
attorney for Damon Cook, who wasplayed by Michael Ealy, public
attorney for Damon.
Cook, who was played by MichaelEaly.
He ended up he had to go on atrial for murder in like this
rage kind of a fight in a bar.
He claimed that he didn't do it.
She felt like he didn't do it,told him to not say not cop a

(32:38):
plea.
He said I got a cop a plea.
And she ends up feeling a lotof regret over the fact that
dude goes to jail when she feltlike she could have really got
him out.
Those are the storylines, right, she felt like if she did more
she really could have got dudeoff.
So you get her past and as a asa public defender, her present

(33:04):
as a criminal defense attorneyin this all-white firm of real,
really corporate law, and hermotherhood of her, of her kids,
who are kind of at odds with her, and her marriage to her
husband, which is in a separatedstate.
We get to see all of those inthe first three episodes boom,
boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
And again, like we said,there's no primary no.

(33:27):
They all competing to be themain storyline.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, I mean, she's the primary.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
She is the primary and you get this other storyline
of the fact that her husband isnot in the house and he has
another man watching over thehouse at night who she is hooked
up with.
So those are the competingstorylines, the first few
episodes, right.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
Well, yeah, because I mean after they had
interactions, then he kind ofwent away.
I mean he popped up in and outbut he kind of went away.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Well, he went away, but he went away with his nose
open.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
With wide, so she got him Boasty wide.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah, she got him.
So she chasing at that pointshe like nah, that was it, you
know one time and it's a wrap.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
And dude's like nah and you know he do a little
popping up.
He not very present after thatfirst episode, he just kind of
pop up in and out yeah, not likea crazy stalker pop up, but
just like a I'ma keep texting.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
You type that yeah all right.
So then we get into state ofemergency which, when I saw that
, I was like jay got a songcalled state of emergency.
It must be on an r kelly albumand we had to look it up and it
was on the r kelly album, rightdate of emergency I think it's
on the state, I think it's onthe rk, the album jay.
It was R Kelly album.
Yeah, it was yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
The one he did with R Kelly.
Yeah, what, what shot was that?
The one he did with the artistthat will not be mentioned.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, oh man.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
We have four right Guilty until proven innocent.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Oh yeah, because this is when Jack's dad was the jury
selection.
Oh, it is called Guilty untilproven innocent.
We have four.
Yeah, oh yeah, because this iswhen Jack's dad was doing jury
selection.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Oh, it is called Guilty.
Until Proven Innocent right.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, because they doing jury selection.
And then she gets this textmessage from her dad to say that
he wanted to meet with her fordinner, and then her mom
oversteps and messes that up forher.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
So that's the last one, right that I was saying.
The one storyline that we don'treally get introduced to too
much in the first three is heras a daughter right aside from
with her mom, not her dad.
You get a little glimpse, butfrom episode four on they built
that up to where that iscompeting right alongside the
other ones.
Her as a daughter is also, youknow, her with her mom, her with

(35:44):
her father, her her parents aresplit up a long time ago, and
her with her stepfather, herwhite stepfather.
So we add another racialdynamic in there and um.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
So yeah, we get to see all of that right and her
having this um tension therewith her stepfather and the fact
that her mom is still with herstepfather.
Yeah, so that's also.
That's a lot for her she's beendealing with on her own.
She hasn't told anybody, onlyChanel knows.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Well, she hates her stepfather.
We just don't know.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
We don't know why, but and whenever she's around
him you can see that she's likejust all over the place.
But we don't know why we don'tget any information.
But we do see that her motheris a bit overbearing.
Let's talk about that.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Her mom is an overstepper.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
All the way overstepper yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
So her mom oversteps in a lot of in a couple of ways,
Right.
So her mom oversteps in hermarriage.
She clearly likes her husbandand wants them back together.
She never really sits down totalk to her daughter about why,
what happened, what's going on.
She really just like you needto fix this.

(36:58):
You need to work it out,because it's a good man and I
like him and I've been talkingto him Good man.
Savannah and she even hit herwith the.
I was just talking to him andy'all need to get this back.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
Well, he said, and I think and okay, mom.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
And she is their primary babysitter.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
She is and she's there, but not so much she's the
primary, but it it doesn't seemlike they're as open to like
letting the kids stay the nightor anything like that.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
facts but we, we don't see that at first.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
No, we don't see that , we just see it later.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
And this is kind of where I feel like this is where
the other writers came in.
Right, and I can understandthis.
Being a writer is hard to bringthe point home and not have no
holes left in your story.
Right, you need a lot of peoplecoming in to patch stuff up.
So some things you need to adda little more weight to,
especially if you're going toturn your idea into a nine

(38:01):
episode.
She may not have came up withthis idea as a nine episode play
, you know playing out that way.
Maybe she wrote it as a movie.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
you don't know you know.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
So how do you make this become nine episodes?
Well, that's when the otherwriters come in and you start
having to plan things out.
So some things we had to ramp itup right it's like okay, now we
got to explain that they don'treally like the kids going to
her house, right?
So this guy we gotta head, wegotta make this a little more
understood by the audience and Ithink they did that right to
show that, yeah, she goes, theygo over there, but they would

(38:32):
prefer the kids not spending thenight, and it's because of her
husband great, but nobody knowswhy only jacks has this.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
You know, apprehension?
It's not shared by anybody elsein the house because the kids
love him.
That's granddad.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
So we also get to kind of.
We get a lot more of her beingwith Damon, more Like she's
helped him.
He had an incident with theparole officer.
She had him a new paroleofficer.
They then met at the beach.
By now They've, you know, umhad lunch or dinner together.
She paid for the dinner withher money and he like, well, you

(39:08):
know, give me your address,give me your address so I can
mail the money to you, right?
And then, oh boy, just pops upat the house and you know they
have.
You know he realized that herhusband ain't home and she ain't
wearing a ring.
And you know, she telling himhe can stop by any time.
And it's like, wait a minute,your husband gonna be cool with

(39:29):
that.
And then that's when it's kindof sad that, oh yeah, we're
separated now.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
So I let me just say let me just put that out there
for the audience I knew they wasgonna have sex on some kind of
table that didn't happen yet I'mjust saying, I'm just, I just
gotta be real with it.
I just gotta be real with it.
I knew that before the showeven started, before I pressed
play on episode one, I was likemichael ely is gonna have his

(39:55):
shirt off and they're gonna havea sex scene.
They're probably gonna slidesome seasonings off of a table
oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Okay, I did not.
I was coming into.
It was an open mind, becausemichael has played other parts.
He has not just always been thecrazy guy.
He has played other parts wherehe was the nice guy we knew he
was prison bay in this okay, yes, it was very clear that he was
prison bay, but they didn't havehim coming across as some type

(40:24):
of you know.
You could see that he was alittle emotionally unstable but
true.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Well, I don't think the emotionally unstable part
really is kind of like to me.
That's the part that saves thestory, that's the part that
makes it a cautionary tale.
Without that it's just like, oh, she fell in love with this
dude because she likes criminalsand that's it, um.
But I think, you know, Ithought they did a good job of
showing, in the present day hereaches out to her and he been

(40:50):
in prison for 16 years 16 yearsy'all.
That is a long to any of y'all.
Reach back and tell me what wasy'all doing 16 years ago, right,
you know?
So, even in prison, 16 years,he reaches out to her and was
like yo, I can get out if I justadmit or just say that I did it
.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
and she like, nah, don't do that but I mean, I've
been in here for 16 years.
I may die in here like I needto get out and see life.
Like and experience life andeven him getting out and how
much has changed over the 16years.
Like they have an episode wherethey're at the coffee or a
scene where they're at thecoffee shop and he's just trying
to order coffee and she's likewhat roast and you know what

(41:34):
type of milk, you know, and it'slike what.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
What is all of?
What are these things?
He's like Encino man orsomething.
He's like the caveman that theydefrosted.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Right, exactly, man, or something.
He's like the, the, the cavemanthat they defrosted, right
exactly, or like you know, hehand her her debit card at
dinner and it's like no, thishas to have a logo, master car,
like.
He's like what it?
There's money on the account.
I don't understand.
So he's just so out of touchwith everything, like everything
costs more.
You know, things are different.
His brother, who owns the um,the mechanic shop that you know

(42:09):
he used to own, but now hisbrother has taken over, he's
into other things now, you know.
So he's just the criminal pool.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
So if you've been in prison anymore you have to show
that, that that attraction backto the criminal life is natural.
You got, I thought they did agood job with that.
Um, I thought they really did.
They did a good job showinghere's what they are right now.
Right, and it kind of makes herlook like what.
Why would you do that, likeyou're a high-ranking

(42:39):
professional la attorney, whywould you you be dating and
going back with some dude who'sbeen in prison 16 years?
But I thought they did a goodjob of doing the 16 years ago
flashback.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Oh yeah, episode five , I think, was a turning point
for me because, honestly,episodes one through four, I was
struggling to decide whether ornot I was going to finish
watching the series because itwas just too much going on.
Daniel I did not really herprivate investigator.
He was super irritating.
None of his jokes fell through,they all fell flat.

(43:15):
I just didn't really.
His part was just kind of likeeh, okay, and you know, things
were kind of just moving.
Crystal was fine but you know,again, she was like the typical
black assistant.
I thought that her girlfriendswere cool because they were all
different.
You sally, autumn and chanelyou could tell that they all had

(43:36):
something different going onand brought a different element
to her that she needed.
But it just, you know, itreally wasn't enough for me.
I was just kind, kind of like Idon't really know.
This is still kind of like flatfor me.
It wasn't until we got theflashback and again.
So episode five I didn't see.
This was the episode that Imissed and I didn't see it until
I watched it with Jay.

(43:57):
So like going back and seeingit where it needed to be really
helped me because it made somuch sense the second time
around.
And I agree with you, bae, Ithink that they did an excellent
job with the flashbacks of thisepisode so that we can really
get an understanding of why shewas so invested with Damon.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yo, and my apologies to Tim Joe who played Daniel,
but yo.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
His part got better.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Man yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
When they first introduced him it was like.
I think after he got beat up.
Maybe I think that's what itwas.
But before he got beat up hewas just all over the place.
But once he got beat up, Idon't know if that just kind of
toned his personality down, butit just changed after that it
made it too stereotypical for me.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
When he first came in it was like, okay, he's like
the asian sidekick guy which istypically like it's the gay
sidekick to the the strong blackfemale lead.
It's like it was a little toostereotypical for me at first,
um, but I do think, like yousaid, after he got beat up it
was like, okay, they take it alittle more serious, but it was

(45:08):
obviously he's injected forcomic relief yeah, it was a bit
much and I mean you could seelike him getting beat up the way
that he did, I feel like itjust just overall it kind of
dimmed his light a bit.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
So maybe that you know, because when he had that
meeting with the cousin he camethere with the pepper spray.
He was terrified yeah so I thinkthat you know, I just think
overall it was probably just atoning down of his character and
maybe he was just on eggshellsafter that and maybe that's why
you know we didn't get to see alot of all of that extra that he

(45:41):
had going on because, you know,he was just probably like
having to reevaluate, like, ohman, you know this is real, out
here people is on some crazystuff although I will say he
should have got murked.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
No, I mean I'm not saying I'm not wishing that on.
I mean he's a character in thestory.
I think to make the story morerealistic, he wouldn't have got
just beat up.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
Well, he got beat up pretty bad.
He had some broken ribs right.
He was in the hospital for awhile.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
It was a way to.
It was almost like not a Hulushow, this was like a ABC show.
At that point it was like thisis a little too sanitized.
But yeah, I feel them.
I feel them.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
So yeah, episode five .
You could definitely see thatthat was written directed by
someone, somebody different.
She had some help with this one.
It played differently, itlooked differently.
I mean, the whole episode wasway more tracking, attractive
than the first four.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yeah, written by Erica Harrison, and we got a
great idea of just the overalldynamic between these two.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
The next one, I think , is what?
Forever Young, yeah, but I meanyou know what episode five, and
you have brought up some reallygood points about this episode
where we talked about Was it six?

Speaker 1 (47:04):
I think it might've been six.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Five is so ambitious, oh yeah.
So five is the one where wekind of get to see her friend
Sally going to the altar and youknow her um Jackson Damon
forming this bond of you knowthem essentially dating, while
they're kind of going throughthe case and heard them having

(47:27):
late night phone calls and hergetting really connected to him.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
This is the first time.
This is 16 years ago 16 yearsago.
So you can see all theflashbacks.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yeah, and they kind of went past lawyer client.
This is like boyfriend,girlfriend.
At this point it was absolutelywas.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
And then they show like they actually have like a
jail masturbation scene to showthem really doing the phone sex
and really like I mean it waslike this, she was his
girlfriend yes I thought it wasreally interesting that last uh
meeting they had where she satdown with him and she was like
all right, we got to go over thecase and he distracted her from

(48:09):
it.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
He said no, and I think that was really what cost
them the case, because shedidn't get a chance to prepare
him to be questioned at all,because he was not ready, and
that's essentially what lost herthat case and she knows it, she
knows it she knows it.
Yeah, because they was too busy.
Lovey-dovey, let's touch feetunder the table and hold hands

(48:30):
and kissy face.
You know they wasn't focused onhis case.
Um, you know they was focusedon learning each other and
building a relationship and notreally trying to make sure that
he got out of jail.
So, yeah, I thought you made areally good point.
You know, at the end, after heloses the case and then you know
you can see him going back tojail and then she meet up with

(48:51):
him once he's in there to kindof file for an appeal and have
that conversation with him.
I thought you brought somereally good points up.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Yeah, you know that whole thing.
I thought it was written verywell.
It got me with the visualstorytelling really good.
Um, you know, she, I and I.
One of the things that stood outto me at the beginning was like
she's married, she's married tolewis.
Like why is she acting likethis and why is like, yeah, I
get it.
You know, people have think,people that they had crushes on

(49:19):
before or they had inappropriatefeelings or whatever it was
it's like, but why is this sointerrupting of her current life
?
So when they went back andplayed it, it was like really
for them to show like the wholebuild up, she really fell for
this dude and he really fell forher.
They really actually gotmarried.

(49:40):
They married each other and Ithink it was in such a spiritual
sense.
It wasn't grounded in anythingelse, it wasn't grounded in any
reality, in any practicality,and that's kind of the most
dangerous kind when it's likeit's only grounded in their
heads, right, like they had thewhole phone sex scene.
They had all of that stuff.

(50:01):
They had ignored the fact thathe was on trial for murder,
ignored the fact that he was ontrial for murder, ignored the
fact that he was in jail andthey fell in love on this thing.
That couldn't stand on anything, yeah, but they lit, but they
did fall in love and I thoughtwhen he, like you said they
skipped preparation for thetrial and he got ripped up and
they found him guilty, themoment they found him guilty,

(50:21):
they were sitting side by sidevisually and they held hands,
you know, and the judge wasright there and to me it was
like that's the real marriageand that's the reason why she
can't be fully married to lewis.
She is married to damon.
it's just on this like etherealplane where it's not ground like
lewis's her marriage to him isgrounded in things and she wants

(50:44):
that ethereal part to be partof it.
And it's like the opposite withdamon.
It's like she married to him inthis imaginary lovey-dovey part
.
But nothing on the real worldcan stand with it.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
So it's like because and I think a lot of that has to
do with the fact that damonunderstood who she was now I
think lewis understands who sheis too, but I think that he saw
through to a space that not alot of people touched, like he
really kind of got.
He really got personal with herand she was really able to open

(51:16):
up to him, probably in a waythat she hadn't opened up to
anyone at the time.
So they made sure to show likethis was her first love and
Louis coming in to save the day,you know, really kind of opened
up things to show, okay, thisis the guy that comes in and
really saves her, but damon washer first love absolutely and

(51:38):
they don't give us like a timeframe of how long it was between
him because they show it?

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Yeah, because they show it immediately, like she's
leaving him going to jail andhave an accident to Louis?

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Yeah, but I don't think it happened that fast you
could see she was struggling andeven when she went back to see
him, like she wanted to tell himthat she was in love with him
and she wanted to tell him likehey, no, I really want to work
to get you out, but he wouldn'tlet letter.

(52:09):
He was like you know, I need toserve my time.
I lost his case and I know youwant to tell me that you love me
, which I think is what she wastrying to say in that letter
that she wrote.
When she said I love criminals,I don't think she necessarily
meant she loved criminals.
I think she meant that sheloved him.
But she couldn't say thatbecause she didn't.
You know who's gonna pick upthis letter?
You, my lawyer, what youtalking about.
So yeah yeah, I think that washer way of telling him that she
loved him and that she was therefor him.
Regardless of the fact, andalthough they didn't make like

(52:30):
they kept in touch for that 16years, she ran to him as soon as
she got that call ran so shekept tabs on him, if nothing
else I think it's even moreimpactful that they didn't I
think, if had, it would havebeen fizzled out.
Because right after that shewent into private practice.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
I think a couple of things.
I think one.
I think that after he went tojail and they met for that last
time in front of the glass,obviously you got to have the
glass window set.
You have to.
They both were wearing white.
I thought it was very like aheavenly type of a spiritual
visual.
I thought it was really good.
Damon said some stuff, right,and all my fellas out there.

(53:11):
Anybody listening?
Y'all know, come on.
There are things that men say.
Sometimes we say it on purpose,sometimes we just getting lucky
, just saying stuff.
He says some stuff, stuff.
I won't call it gaslighting,but it definitely set it up so
that she was ready 16 years fromnow.
He was like oh, the next time Isee you, I'll be a nobody yeah,

(53:37):
and you'll be this famous bigshot lawyer.
I'm sure he meant that, butthat's what locks it in but she
was though because it wasabsolutely true.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
It locked it in and maybe that was I don't think it
was gaslighting, I think it washim telling her.
I mean, maybe she needed tohear that because she just lost
this big case, that probably thebiggest case of her life not
just careerized.
But you know, emotional wise,and he probably was just trying
to pump her up to say hey, thisis not your first rodeo but

(54:07):
that's why I say sometimes we'redoing it on purpose and
sometimes we're not.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
And, like I said, I don't call it gaslighting, but
it does extend some toxic things.
Those kind of things will do itokay.
It will lock it in that,especially that I'll just be
somebody you walk past on thestreet.
You won't even know who I am,come like.
I'm not saying he was full ofit, but fellas, you know what

(54:36):
I'm talking about.
You know there are things mencan say that will have you could
.
It will last 20, 30 years.
I'm telling you.
I got taught this when I wasyoung and I've seen it play out
over and it's true.
That's why people got to becareful about the things you say
.
I do think he was trying topump her up but, as we see later

(54:58):
, on in his mental state.
He was speaking from a brokenmental state, and that's
dangerous.
That's true.
So how does this wrap up?
We got.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Song Cry Renegade and Already Home right?
No, we got Renegade.
Are you going off the album?

Speaker 1 (55:18):
I thought maybe I got it out of order.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
So episode six is Renegade, 7 is Nigga what, Nigga
who, and then 8 is Song Cry.
So you got them.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Some of them you don't.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
The other one you had mentioned that's not on here,
so Episode 6.
Episode 6 is the one.
So episode 6 is probably themost sexual episode of them all,
because you see her and damonand damon all the way in they go
all the way in.
Then, lewis, he's trying tofight for the.

(55:58):
The relationship finds out thatshe's kind of with someone else
and he starts getting into it.
You see chanel's husband jt,who's this big football star or
diddy parks.
He essentially invited lewis tothis party.
Yes, you get to meet sally'shusband, chris, who is trying to
encourage him marriagecounseling this is not the place
you want to be.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
You know all these characters out with your wife,
one dude trying to do somehealthy stuff.
He was a little character man,but shout out to him, shout out
to that so, yeah, we do get tosee that.
I thought one not to go backtoo far, but really good
storytelling when it comes toforeshadowing of the dude.

(56:41):
What is his name?
Will the dude?
who was watching her door, yeah,of her having sex with will and
him chasing her right.
And then you get to see you.
They've already foreshadowed inyour mind that that is not the
road to go down.
And she goes down again withdamon and you get you know that

(57:02):
this is way deeper.
Yeah, so this is good.
The backlash is going to be waymore than just somebody texting
you too much, right?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (57:11):
and I think, too, a thing that you know is, we see
it in every episode is thatshe's on.
She doesn't understand whyLewis won't come home right um,
because Lewis is present inevery single one of these
episodes.
She's not fully grasping thefact of why he won't come home.
She just keeps saying you don'tunderstand me, you don't get me

(57:33):
.
But you know she doesn't evenunderstand or get herself at
this point in time.
She's trying to figure thingsout.
She's doing everything that shecan.
She grabbing here, there andeverywhere, because she doesn't
really understand what's goingon and I think a lot of that has
to do with her not addressingthings that happened in her past
, which come up in in laterepisodes, the elephant in the

(57:54):
room, but lewis is really likehe's telling her like I love you
but I can't be with you rightnow because you got too much
going on, um, and like thingskind of start to get easy with
them, like she's not asargumentative anymore and you
know, chanel kind of brings uplike she's so kind.
Now I'm so glad that you guysare working things out in your

(58:15):
marriage.
And once that said, it's likewell, wait a minute, what's
really going on with her?
Because, you're right, she issmiling a lot more.
Is this me?
I don't know if this is me, isthis something else?
What new has been present inher life?
And then that's when we get tosee like okay, she's kicking it
her and damon is in thissituation ship where she's

(58:41):
finally found something that'skind of helping her iron out.
Everything else is going onRight, because Damon is a
necessary for her, like she'sessentially allowed to have this
relationship that she wasn'table to have 16 years ago, and
Lewis kind of pretty much getsput on the back burner.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Even though he's her husband.
Like she didn't invited thisman over to her house.
Then the bed Her and Lewissleeping on the table that her
and her kids is eating on.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Told y'all I was going to be on the table.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Like she's like officially, like full fledged,
invited this man into her space,not really realizing, like,
what she's doing.
She's just trying to fulfillthis thing in her that's missing
and not really realizing whatshe's doing to him.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Huge.
I think she's a fracturedperson like anybody in her life.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
It's affecting her kids, like what you brought up
with naima and that wholesituation.
Like her baby girl was on herpier.
She was bleeding for days untilsomebody kind of you know paid
attention to a spencer and himdoing all of this stuff at
school and you know lou Louis.
So it's like so many thingsgoing on, but she got time for
Damon.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
She got time for what she got time for and I mean I
think she, like you said, whenshe met Damon Damon got a chance
to speak directly to her to herright because he met.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
We need to do this, her Her.
He met broke her, he gets her.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
By the time she was with Lewis and I don't know what
.
Like you said, we don't knowwhat the details are.
The main thing that Lewis keepssaying to her is you won't open
up with me, you won't talk tome.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
So he can't even meet her, nope.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Damon did.
Damon, did, did so it's like,it's almost like just she's
fractured.
So she got like this onerelationship where she allowed
the dude to meet her, but it'snot, it's toxic for her.
Then she got one relationshipthat she's built so much on, but
she won't allow the dude tomeet her.
So we have to startunderstanding well, what is it?
What's the problem here?

(01:00:44):
Obviously she keeps saying Ilike criminals, what's driving
her like that?

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
and all of that stuff yeah, and you know she's been
able to, um, really kind offulfill this space, like she
probably never really imaginedthat she would be able to feel
with him, and and the fact thatyou know she's kind of I don't
know, it's like, I agree, she'svery fractured, like she's just

(01:01:10):
kind of going through themotions.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
She's a mirror image of old boy that runs clout.
What's his name?

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Brayden.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Brayden, which is why they have them, they clashed
they clashed.
They are a mirror image of eachother.
They you know, damon is doingthe same thing.
He's fractured, he's got thismarriage that's not standing on
anything, and then he sets upthis relationship with a woman
that does mean something to himand it ended up being poisonous
and toxic and he ended upkilling her.
So it's like that's the way.

(01:01:37):
That was the mirror image thatthey're playing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
That's right, yeah, because he fell in love with her
right.
And then now you've got thiswife who's trying to make like
she ain't know nothing was goingon, when actually she reached
out to Kalisha through emailtelling her to stay away from
her husband.
And then she throw in Kalisha'shusband.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Just like Louis, do everything going on.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Yeah, you're right.
And now Kalisha husband isinvolved, she trying to.
Well, my husband messed withyour wife, so I'm a mess with
your wife, so I'm gonna messwith you.
Yeah, so it was.
It's all types of stuff goingon, and so now we kind of move
into, like the final coupleepisodes where, uh, song cry,
which is the pivotal one,because we learn in this episode

(01:02:16):
what happened with paul so paulis step daddy's stepfather,
right the white stepfather.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
She was with her dad.
It didn't work.
She ended up.
Her dad was an addict.
She ended up leaving him andgoing to Paul.
So in this one, paul in thepresent time is dying in a
hospital.
Start having flashbacks to whathappened between.
Why does Jax hate Paul?

(01:02:45):
What's behind this?
And we get to see a lot offlashbacks to her as a teenager,
where he doing someinappropriate things to her
right, like he did the old, theoldest trick in the book, right
like let me try to bump, try tobump you bump into your titty or
let me try to rub you here as Iscoot past you and yeah and
ultimately, I climb in bed withyou.

(01:03:07):
And then, oh, my fault, yeah,and I'm on bed.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
Sorry, I'm drunk this was once he told her that he
was trying to buy her a car.
That was when everything kindof started.
Like you gotta, let me do theseadvances right in order for you
to get this thousand dollarsfor this car.
And, of course, her mom is likeoblivious to everything.

(01:03:31):
But then when it comes up likehim walking in on her in the
bathroom, the mom is just likewell, you should have locked the
door and it's like, but old boyjust seen, almost seen her
naked.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
And it's just recurring, recurring, and each
time it's one of thosesituations where they are alone.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
And it's just recurring, recurring, and each
time it's one of thosesituations where they're what'd
you do to my daughter?
It was, oh, he was just drunk,so everything's.
You know, don't blame that onhim as a person, he's just an
alcoholic.
Like he made the decision thathe needed to leave and go get
help.
What's his name?
His name is, uh, chris beck.
He made the decision, like, letme go and get help.
And then, you know, he gave herthat money and ripped it up.

(01:04:27):
But the mom was devastated,like completely, totally
devastated, that he left and Imean, I can't even imagine what,
jack.
Oh, even in that moment you'veseen that the mom was crying,
crying, crying.
And instead of the momcomforting Jack, she's the one

(01:04:47):
that is, like you know, justgonna suck it up and say I'm
here for you, mom, whatever youneed me to do.
So her and her emotions and herfeelings got put to the back
burner.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
It didn't even matter so the dude Paul goes to the
hospital.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
He's old by now they, yeah, they are back together,
all jacked up obviously years ofwhatever he was doing, drinking
and whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Obviously her mom had one husband who was an addict
and then went to Paul, whoobviously had some problems here
too.
So she has a cycle historygoing on and Jax is dealing with
all of that right.
So everybody's going to thehospital to check on Paul.
Her mom is there, louis isthere, her kids are there,
everybody's over and over exceptfor her.
I think she told Damon about it, right?

(01:05:25):
She told Damon, not really.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
She just kind of said that he was one of the people
that hurt her.
She didn't get into like why.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
But this is one of the things you know in every
show is going to be somethingfor me.
It's going to be somethingwhere I'm like, explain this to
me, why ain't nobody sayingnothing?
And she finally goes to thehospital and she kills the dude.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
She murdered the dude .
She didn't murder him, shedidn't know he was going to die,
but he did.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
He did, but she didn't know.
That's manslaughter.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
She didn't know that he was going to die.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
That is legally manslaughter.
She didn't premeditate.
She is a criminal defenseattorney.
If you walk into a person'shospital room who's on a
deathbed and you do things, hewasn't on his deathbed.
Well, he was pretty sick.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
He was sick, he went on his deathbed.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Even worse If somebody pretty sick and you do
what did she do?
She threw something or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
No, she didn't allow him to press the nurse's leg.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
He in there dying, you know that's murder.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
She said a couple things.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
It took probably like six seconds, and then she
finally let him call the nurse.
She was like yo, you groom me,you are abuser, which is all
true.
He was like that's your truth.
And she was like nah, bruh, youain't about to call for no
ambulance, no nurse.
You got to deal with this painand then he died and then she
walked out he did not know hewas dying.
He presses the nurses button.
He pressed the nurses buttonand she leaves.

(01:06:54):
The nurse comes in she walks outas her mom and everybody else
is rushing in.
She's walking out slowly andcalmly as everybody else is
panicking and rushing in, andthe next scene is his funeral.
It's like she killed him no ifthat ain't, listen y'all if that

(01:07:23):
happened in anybody's family hedied from guilt, of course he
did I would kill him but he alsodied because she wouldn't let
him call the nurse.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
That had nothing to do with it.
If he was going to die, he wasgoing to die.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
If that happened in anybody's family, people would
be like why were you?

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
literally calmly walking out right before he died
.
What were you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
You've never come here to see him.
This whole time we're allwondering why you haven't
visited him.
I've even called you and saidwhy haven't you visited?
All of a sudden you do show upand he's dead now and you're
walking out.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
I mean we at least gotta ask the question I mean
they swept it under the rug,right, so they she's walking out
.
He can't breathe.
Next thing, you know, the momis like laying on his shoulder.
It's a wrap, but they tucked itin real tight.
They ain't say like she didthis.
It was just kind of like hedied and we're moving to the
funeral and that's pretty muchthat.

(01:08:24):
No, because very next thing waslike, let me tell you about your
husband yep this dude wasgrooming me this whole time and
she still was kind of in denialand she still was in denial I
mean even when she told Lewiswas upset, like when she finally
told Lewis, you know he's like,why didn't you tell me he was?
Like I know you weren't goingto let me see them and you
wouldn't let the kids be aroundthem, and I didn't want to do

(01:08:46):
that, but as a person, and howmuch it affected their marriage.
Because she keeps saying likeI'm doing so much for this
marriage but it's like you'rethis elephant, you can't count
that if you're not telling himwhat exactly is going on.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
She told him she finally told him and he was like
why wouldn't you tell me?
Why you ain't tell me that'swhy we didn't.
We don't like the kids goingover there why wouldn't you let
me know?
so let's bring it home becausethere's a big scene we got to
talk about.
But I do want to ask you aquestion, not knowing knowing
now about paul's, now thatthey've resolved that elephant
in the room.
Paul had been grooming her as ateenager and caused her for one

(01:09:23):
.
She's already got some issueswith her dad, who's not there.
The replacement for her dad isgrooming her sexually.
How do you think that'simpacting her ability to have
relationships or herinteractions with men?
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
that's detrimental to her.
I mean, because she did, shedidn't tell anybody.
So she's holding all this in,you know and that could also be
why she's having such a hardtime at work is she's in the
office with all of these whitemen, you know she is.
It's it's hindering her to beable to grow and move forward.
She's literally, like we said,fractured.

(01:09:59):
So she's walking through lifefractured.
She's not letting anybody in,she's not letting anybody know
what's going on, she's kind ofjust existing.
I mean, even when Damon startedwilding out and acting all crazy
and will come over and he beathim up, and then she go see him
to have the conversation.
She's telling him like you know, this isn't cool, and then he's
like I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'msorry, I'm sorry, still not

(01:10:20):
hearing her and she still has tojust kind of like okay, let me
just digress.
I mean her.
Everything since Paul has justbeen a digression.
You know I'm feeling this way,but I don't have anybody to
really voice it to Like.
You can clearly see she didn'tdo therapy, her and Lewis hadn't
done therapy.
So she's just kind of walkingthrough life broken and trying

(01:10:42):
to hold things down in thisbroken state, without really
being true to herself and, youknow, just trying to figure it
out.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
And she has issues with her father has issues with
her father.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
Brayden hits on her.
She was able to try to forgiveher father she was trying to,
but her mother stepped in hermother kept stepping in and
stopping it, but her mother keptforgiving paul yep.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
So all of that is just is not showing her a
healthy way to really holdpeople accountable and that is I
think it is fueling her, herdesire to be with or love
criminals.
Right here she kept saying Ilike criminals.
I think it's this confusionover forgiveness and guilt
versus innocence.
I think she is struggling withit.

(01:11:31):
But let's talk about lastepisode.
What happens Actually?
I guess this is the lastepisode and a half right,
because this all comes to a headwith one incident.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Well, we find out that Brayden did kill his wife.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
And that he is.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Or he killed Kalisha oh yes, he killed Kalisha.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
Yes, he killed Kalisha.
He is innocent, he's found outnot guilty, so he gets off
Because Jax is good.
She does a great job of gettinghim off, despite she figuring
out that he did it, but listen.
This is the thing that made meso irritated With this season
she never looked at the NDA.
That should have been the veryfirst thing that they looked at

(01:12:13):
with the nda it was crazy thatyou don't look at the nda until
the last episode to see that thesignatures don't match I was
one.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
I was like that would have been the first that would
have been the first thing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
But obviously you know it couldn't have been the
first thing because how wouldthey have an episode, a season?
But it was just completelyridiculous.
Like what?

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
and again.
I think this is coming from thefact that you got six, seven,
eight writers trying to bringthis story home in nine episodes
.
Make it all fit together.
That's fine, because that wasjust totally right.
That work that plays on tv.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
It was dumb.
It was just like what?
Like why didn't y'all do that?
You kept, and it was so big.
That's all they kept talkingabout.
She believes he's innocentbecause the girl signed the nda.
Why did have you not everlooked at the nda that you are
so sure?

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
yeah is so he was able to pull this off by forging
her signature on the nda, andnobody caught it until after the
jury was already out.
So they find him not guilty.
He gets off.
He tries to.
He actually right before thattries to hit on Jax.
She pushes him away.
So now we go into.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Damon.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
Boom Jax gets kidnapped.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
Kidnapped because she tells Damon that she's going to
get back with Louis, she'sgoing to try to make her
marriage work.
Of course Damon is upsetbecause again he's been trying
to get with her, he's beentrying to spend time with her.
He's been trying to be her manand she is not fully telling him
that she's going to try to getback with her husband.
This is like not until Willcome over and he get beat up.

(01:13:48):
Damon shows up at her house.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
We can't forget this right beat up will this is again
like I said, it wasforeshadowing, right.
So she has an interaction withwill.
Will chases her for a minute.
Then she got an interactionwith with damon.
Damon chases her for real, forreal, and then they both end up
at her house at the same time.
Right, like so, really good,foreshadowing bringing it to a
head.
They both end up at her houseat the same time.
Right, like so, really good,foreshadowing bringing it to a
head.

(01:14:12):
They both end up at her house.
Damon dismantles this dude Willphysically in like three
seconds, almost kills the dude.
Like how in the world is dude aprofessional like security,
whatever he robbing people?

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
for money.
But you know he got that prisonstrength.
So who?

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
knows what he was doing in prison.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
He caught him off guard too.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
He did catch him off guard.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
It was one of them things where it was like wait a
minute, how are you at the door?

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
But like what is he?
Some kind of Jedi, he said hetrained.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
What is this?
Nobody should be able to catchyou off guard.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
You're a professional .
Come on man, you're aprofessional security.
He was top flight security.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
He was top flight security he didn't do nothing
but smoke cools he was topflight he smoked some Newport.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
That's all he did with a K-Town squabble.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
It was a wrap if he was really that deep in it.
There's no way she would havebeen able to get Adderall from
him, cigarettes from him,everything from him like dude
was not on his job.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Okay, so that shit is told you right there.
So Damon Michael Ealy, 5'7",170 pound, michael Ealy
dismantles this dude in threeseconds.
Then they proceed to go forwardand Jax gets kidnapped.
Oh wonder who it could be?
Ah, man, of course Damonkidnaps her, right Right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
Of course Louis finds her.
Louis is doing everything hecan to get his wife.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
He is all in for his wife.
Y'all, he's all in for his wife.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
That's his girl.
He gonna do what he gotta do hegonna do what he gotta do.
Even though he was out creepinglike she was.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Kinda.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
Just a little bit.
He was creeping.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
I wouldn't say like she was, but he was creeping.
Well, not like she was.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
He did creep Once he realized that she was creeping.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
Nobody on this show creeping like she was.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
Once he realized that she was creeping and then
talking divorce, that's when shewas like oh no, I'm out here
tripping, I need to get myhusband back.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
Even when he had his first opportunities he was
uncomfortable.
He could tell he did not wantto go out there stepping around,
she gets kidnapped.
Damon got her in the back ofthe shop which Louis comes to.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
He comes to the shop, he confronts Damon, which he
doesn't know is Damon, but he'sgot an idea right and he, like
you know Because you got to havethe two men.

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
You always have to have a, and this is my thing,
right?
Y'all can say what y'all wantabout my opinions.
This is my opinions.
Whenever you have a showdirected towards the female
demographic like this, they'regoing to have multiple men and
it's going to you're going tohave a face-to-face.
It's got to be that.
It's almost like this is partof some kind of a fantasy or

(01:17:04):
fetish or something.
It's going to be a face-to-face.
They got to see each other, andit was multiple face to faces in
this.
You saw Damon and Will.
Boom, boom, boom.
Now you get to see theupstanding man fighting for his
wife coming to confront thecrazy dude that she thought was
her soulmate, and thatconfrontation happened.
But it didn't turn into aconfrontation, but at least you

(01:17:25):
got to see him face to face.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
Yeah, got to see him face to face.
You kind of get to really hearwhat Damon is saying, like I
live for you.
I needed to get out of jailbecause I wanted to see you,
even if I couldn't be with you.
I just wanted to be able toexperience life knowing that you
were good and you know you weremarried and you were fine.
But I think that once you know,she gave him hope that there

(01:17:54):
could be a them.
That's when things took a turnfor him.
I don't think she reallyunderstood that this man had
been in like you moved on withyour life.
This man is in jail.
He's probably reading yourletter every single day.
You were the first person hethought of when he said I need
to call her and let her know.
I'm just going to do parole.
So he has.

(01:18:14):
This is 16 years of build-up,so the fact that you would even
give him a second glance, he'sgoing to take fully advantage of
that.
And for her not to have theemotional intelligence to
understand that anything,anything with this man is not

(01:18:34):
gonna be a good idea.
Anything.
If you gave him a pinky toe, hegonna try to get the whole foot
and then some, which he triedto do yeah but we got a chance
to understand that like she'sjust all over the place where
this man is just sat letting herknow like I love you and I I
would give anything to be thereif I mean he was dipping out on

(01:18:56):
his brother cj and what they hadgoing on just to spend some qt
with her.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
He was ready to risk it all he was risking it all.

Speaker 2 (01:19:02):
He what?
Yeah, he was risking, he wasrisking it all, I mean already
put everything that there was tolive for out for her, he only
wanted her.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
Yeah, which is and he didn't have much to live for
why he killed himself yeah.
So I thought you nailedsomething on the head where you
said earlier that she camerunning.
As soon as he called, after 16years, she came running.
I thought that was that was keybecause, like he said, and when
I, by the time I get out ofhere, you're going to be this

(01:19:32):
big fancy lawyer and youprobably walk by me and not know
who I am I'm pretty sure he wasexpecting to get some big law
firm and get pushed to the side.
She's too busy for you, man,who are you?
But he didn't get that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
She came from.

Speaker 1 (01:19:49):
Soon.
As her assistant gave her thename she showed up.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
And you got to remember that he didn't see her
at church.
She see him, she saw him, shewent to his place.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
She confronted him.
Yeah, that's still kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
How would he know that she go to that church?
How would he know?

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
How would he know anything?
50 to that church?
How would he know?
How would he know anything?
50-50, when you crazy, howwould he dismantle the security
guard in three seconds?

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
easy, he's a Jedi cause he been in jail for 16
years.
So I mean, I like the way theyplayed.
Obviously, yeah, he could haveprobably seen her there with her
family, but that's not the waythey spun it.
They spun it like she seen him.
She followed him to the halfwayhouse and told him to stay away
from my family.

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
And then she did him a favor.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
And then she did him a favor Right, because he like
you in my house.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
Instead of pushing it off on somebody else.
I didn't know that was yourchurch.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
How was I supposed to know that was your church?

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
She could have easily assigned it to somebody else.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
So she submerged herself into that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
Another mirror image.
When Dame came looking remember, he said I got an issue with my
halfway house.
I need a new PO.
She sent her person.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
She did it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
She put her person on it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
She did it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
But remember when Kalisha's cousin came to her.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
She gave her the information she gave her
somebody else, Remember?

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
Yeah, she did.
She was like I got somebodyelse that can help you, but when
Damon came she could have sentDamon to somebody else who could
have handled this case.
She didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
No, because that's her boo.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
And I mean even with that, she came through for her.
In the end she was able to, youknow, send her all of the
information on Brayton to gethis business to be, you know,
seized up and for him to go tojail.
So it still worked out in theend.
So, yeah, ultimately, I thinkthat um you know, season one was
.
I mean, it didn't pick up until,like I said, episode five for
me, and then it just kind ofreally went really really fast.

(01:21:45):
Um, you know, I thought that,uh, there was a lot of flips and
turns and things that happened.
I thought it ended.
Well, I was this is like reallywhen I came to Bay like, uh,
let me give you the synopsis ofthe episode, I don't really know
, or their season, I don'treally know if I'm gonna watch
season two, but then I did, andI'm glad I did, and I can't wait
for us to watch it because Ithink you'll really like it we
don't see.

(01:22:05):
But um, yeah, I thought this wasthis.
This this season was good.
If I had to give it a ratingfrom one to ten, I probably
would have given it a six,because I was just halfway in
and halfway out and I didn'treally get both feet in until
maybe you know, like fully inprobably seven, eight, and

(01:22:26):
that's only nine episodes.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
I would say about the same thing.
It got me, probably afterepisode six, and I mean I just
honestly felt like this wasoriginally written prison-based
stylish and it was stretched outand fleshed out and given more
strength, and shout out to thecreator for, uh, having

(01:22:51):
flexibility to her vision yeahand letting that become a more
full story.
I think after it became a fullstory, the last few episodes
really was like more of my steezwhere it's like, all right, you
can have all of that, but yougot to balance it out with some
reality.
I need to see the whole story.
I want to see the backlash, Iwant to see all of that.
I don't want just a fantasy.
So I thought, yeah, it endedwell Overall, I would probably

(01:23:15):
give it maybe six and a half,but yeah, the first five
episodes was tough.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
Yeah it was just so many decisions.
It was just like, girl, why isyou doing this?
Like what are you doing?
I was so many times that I wasjust like shaking my head, like
what are you doing?
Like what's really happeninghere?

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
One thing that I find .
I mean, the one thing that Ialways think about is, like you
know, there ain't been a lot ofshows with female leads.
Well, tv been out for like what?
70, 80 years now, and there'salmost always been male leads.
Male lead do whatever they wantto do, have sex with a
bajillion women, do whatever.
Now you get female leads, andso I ain't got no problem with

(01:23:55):
taking it to the other side,Showing the female leads doing
what they want to do and havesex with whoever they want to
have sex with.
But why do it always seem likethe female leads make stupid
decisions?
When they do it, though, it'slike why can't they just be like
James Bond?
James Bond used to be like thesmartest man in the room, and he
have all the women.
When it come to the women, it'slike we give you the dudes, but

(01:24:17):
you're going to be stupid aboutthem, though.
It's like why do I always got tobe like that?
I don't understand.
Even like to take it back toScandal with Carrie Washington's
character.
She was originally shown likethis superwoman who crashes in
and saves the day, but youdidn't get to see a whole lot of
her backstory, but you did getto see her vulnerability.

(01:24:39):
At the end of the day, she'ssipping wine and eating popcorn
sitting on her couch at the endof the day, Right, and then you
get to see her later on makingthese bad decisions you know,
especially when they come to therelationships or the
situationships or whatever theyare yeah, yeah I don't know.
Just the thing that annoys mekind of is like I I'm all for

(01:24:59):
like the liberation of femalecharacters, but why I gotta be
in the dumb way like what?

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
I don't think it's a dumb way I think it just shows,
you know, I mean, especiallywith this up this season and
this series is just showingagain she's broken, she's
fractured and her working andoperating in this brokenness is
going to have her to where she'snot making some of the best
decisions.
Because I mean, you know, herfirst real relationship was
already in her brokenness and itwas with somebody that was

(01:25:27):
going to prison.
So you know, she's just kind ofplowing forward in discontinued
brokenness that she'sexperienced without really
getting any healing to show herhow to make better choices,
better decisions.
Because I mean, even herfriends said it like you know,
you're always judging, youalways got all this stuff going
on.
You know she doesn't reallyknow how to be her in her own

(01:25:51):
skin.

Speaker 1 (01:25:51):
So you know, maybe it's just a sign of the times
too.
Yeah, you know that's how thecharacters are, I don't know.
It just always stands out to me, Like you don't you don't see
Shaft's brokenness?

Speaker 2 (01:26:05):
Well, I mean, he's a man.
Yeah, that's just not how itworks.
They got to highlight Becausewomen are perceived to be
emotionally unstable.

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
That's my problem, though.
Like, why, Like, why can't itjust be that she's super smart
and super dope and then she justhappens to be attractive and
get men?

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
Because nobody's going to want to see that, and
that's just what it is.
People tune into these sitcoms.
You know these types of showsbecause is?
People tune into these sitcoms?
You know these types of showsbecause they want the drama.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
yeah they want to experience the craziness right.
People wouldn't believe it andpeople won't believe it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
It's got to be brokenness for women that's
unfortunate, but yeah I think itshould be a little brokenness
for everything, I think maybejust men characters, just
because I mean, you don't seelewis's backstory they don't
show us the backstory of whathis life is or two.
Yeah, maybe we will, maybe wewill.
So, yeah, I love the, the music, the culture of the show.
Wait, wait, you forgot theintro song um, I hated the intro

(01:27:03):
song.
I did not feel like that songfit at all the show itself.
I I'm not saying that it's abad song.
I I don't think it fits theshow, which doesn't make it a
good song for the show.
I was not a fan at all.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
I agree.
I thought, like you call theshow Reasonable Doubt, obviously
Jay's best album, you use Jay-Zsongs as song titles, as
episode titles.
You, you gotta keep going withthat theme.
In my opinion, you gotta bringin Swiss Beats and bring
somebody in the J vibe to do thetheme song, like they did it
for Godfather of Harlem, whereyou got Swiss Beats and Rick

(01:27:41):
Ross.
I think you gotta do somethinglike that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
I think maybe they used that song to show like it's
a woman's world.
She got all these things goingon and you know they tried to
soften it, but I just didn'tthink it's a woman's world.
She got all these things goingon and you know they tried to
soften it, but I just didn'tthink it was a good fit.
I love the fact that KerryWashington got to work with Sean
Patrick Thomas again from Savethe Last Dance, because you know
they were brother and sister onthat movie and so for him to
come back as an actual character, I love that.

(01:28:07):
It was really nice to see themworking together again.
Like I said, I love that youknow that there was cultural.
You got a chance to see howthey pick juries, especially if
it's black against white Right,and she's working with Rich, who
is totally white and it'sprobably like a lot of this is
racist and kind of seeing theplay on black, black woman,

(01:28:29):
white man and how they're goingto have these um disagreements
and you know just what thatlooks like, what it could
possibly look like for usworking in a white world, but,
um, I really appreciate it too.
Um, like I said, she was dressedto the nines and I loved it.
I thought some of it, though,um, like it was a lot of
blackness right, and I think,like from some of the reviews

(01:28:53):
that I may have seen earlier, alot of people did not like that,
and I guess it really justdepends on, like, what your
audience is.
I don't think that this showwas trying to be an audience for
everybody.
You know it's not shameful inthe fact that it's for the, for
the people it was somewhat.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
It was a little more black than scandal, oh way more
black than Scandal.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
Oh way more black than Scandal, yeah, but I think
it wanted that audience that wasprobably more like 80-20.
Yeah yes, I think that wasabsolutely what they were going
for, and it seems like a lotmore people are starting to get
hip to the show and yeah, so Ican't wait to watch season two
with you and see, see what'sgoing on with the season two.

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
Yeah, thanks for rocking with us again y'all.
Thanks for y'all patience andwaiting for us to get back.
I'm glad y'all are stillfollowing the show.
Uh, if y'all new to the show,welcome aboard.
This is the the open bookpodcast and we got.
We really just try to be openbook.
You know we are a marriedcouple.
We've been married for like 5011 years and uh, we try to be
open book.

(01:29:52):
You know, we are a marriedcouple.
We've been married for like 50years and we try to examine
everything from the perspectiveof what a married couple can and
should talk about.
Right, like there's no one wayto do things.
But this is what we do.
We talk about some Bible verses, we talk about some movies,
some books, some phenomena.
Actually, one of the things Ithink could come out of this
show is one of the things that Ireally want to talk about we

(01:30:14):
don't have enough time so we'regoing to branch it off Is the
idea like every, almost every do, yeah, nearly every there's a
lot of dudes on this show thatall came on to Jack's.
They all try, they shot, theyshot, even the prosecuting
attorney.

Speaker 2 (01:30:30):
Yes, he did.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
Go to the flashbacks he shot his shot and my thing as
a man was like what does thatfeel?
Like right, like growing up andknowing as one of the shooters
right, knowing you you're gonnashoot your shot, sometimes just
for the excitement and fun, likewe do that, what does?
It feel like for a woman to gothrough life surrounded by
shooters, like dudes, constantlyshooting a shot even when it's

(01:30:54):
appropriate or inappropriate orcompletely out of bounds.
What does that feel like?
So we're going to talk aboutthat a little bit more in
another episode, and those arethe kind of things I think we
just want to deal with, man,things that really, uh, affect
and impact our lives and weshould talk about more.
All right, Word.
Word up.

Speaker 2 (01:31:13):
Thanks for tuning in.
It's exhausting.
By the way, I guess it justdepends on who's shooting the
shot, right?
But yeah, I love the fact thatwe're back and can't wait to
tune in to the next episode withy'all.
Whether it's this or whetherwe're getting into season two or
we just kind of Getting intolife, we'll see.

(01:31:34):
Until next time, folks, we outPeace.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Boysober

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Reasonable Doubt Season 1: In-Depth Review

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Boysober

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

Reasonable Doubt Season 1: In-Depth Review

Boysober