September 23, 2025 • 28 mins
What happens when you bring together a 30-year veteran opera journalist and the complete archives of Canada's longest-running arts magazine? Magic, memories, and an unforgettable journey through operatic history.
Joseph So, who has been writing for Opera Canada since 1995, takes listeners on a captivating tour through his remarkable career interviewing the greatest singers of our time. From his first transformative opera experience seeing Renata Tabaldi in La Gioconda at the Met in 1967 to his recent interview with Gerald Finley, So's encyclopedic memory and genuine passion for the art form shine throughout this conversation.
The podcast coincides with Opera Canada's monumental launch of its complete digital archives spanning over 65 years of continuous publication. As So recounts his friendship with magazine founder Ruby Mercer, we glimpse the personal connections that have shaped Canadian opera history. His poignant stories about interviewing Maureen Forrester as she battled dementia and his tribute to soprano Erin Wall following her tragic death showcase the human dimension of this magnificent art form.
Perhaps most delightfully, So shares candid insights about the temperaments of different voice types, confessing that while tenors might be "great to the ear," they often prove the most challenging interview subjects. This blend of reverence for the art and honest behind-the-scenes perspective makes this episode essential listening for anyone who loves opera or appreciates the dedication of those who document our cultural heritage.
All episodes of The Opera Glasses podcast are hosted by the editor of Opera Canada, currently Michael Jones after Elizabeth Bowman hosted seasons 1 and 2. Follow Opera Canada on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and Visit OperaCanada.ca for all of your Canadian Opera news and reviews.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello and welcome to the Opera Glasses podcast, the
official podcast of Opera Canadamagazine.
This is the beginning of ourfourth season of Opera Glasses
and we're really pleased to haveyou listen to us today.
For those of you who haven'tmet me, my name is Michael Jones
.
I'm the editorial director ofOpera Canada magazine and I'm
(00:28):
proud to be the host of theOpera Glasses podcast.
And this is a really excitingweek for Opera Canada magazine
when we're releasing thispodcast, because on Thursday,
september 25th, after about atwo-year project that was begun
by the last editor-in-chief,elizabeth Bowman, working with
(00:49):
then-chair Eva Innes, we arelaunching the full archives of
Opera Canada magazine 65-plusyears of publishing Opera Canada
magazine.
Publishing Opera Canadamagazine, we are the longest
continuously publishing artsmagazine in the country and it's
an incredible resource of howthis art form has developed and
(01:12):
changed in this country since1960.
So we will be releasing that onThursday, september 25th on
Patreon.
The Patreon address ispatreoncom slash opera canada.
So we hope that you will bejoining us as a member of our
Patreon.
(01:32):
And if you listen to the end ofthis podcast, there's a special
deal I'll tell you about, but inorder to celebrate the opening
of the archives, I wanted tospeak to one of the writers for
Opera Canada who has, quitefrankly, been with us the
longest.
I think he's been writing forthe magazine now for over 30
years.
He was also one of the firstwriters that I met, both over
(01:56):
Zoom and in person, when I beganworking at Opera Canada
magazine, and he's somebody thatI love speaking with.
Joseph so has an almostencyclopedic memory of having
seen operatic performances foryears and years and years.
His living room is a treasuretrove of memorabilia.
(02:19):
I'll say it that way, joseph atreasure trove of memorabilia.
Photos of all of the divas he'sinterviewed, or at least some
of the divas he's interviewed,signed with wishing him all the
best.
He has been beloved by many inthis community and I.
Just as we celebrate therelease of the archives and all
(02:42):
the history, it seemed fittingthat we speak today with Joseph
so and that he shares some ofhis memories with us.
So welcome, joseph, to OperaGlasses.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, thank you, michael.
Thank you for having me.
First of all, yes, I'm a writer, I'm a retired academic and all
that, but above all else, I ama fan, and I have been a fan
since I attended my first liveopera in January 1967.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
In.
January 1967, Joseph.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yes, maybe you weren't born yet.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I was born.
I admit to being born in 2004.
But no, I had just been born.
What was that first opera thatyou saw?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It was something that I had never heard of before.
It was La Gioconda At the Met.
I was a student.
I remember Ponchielli it's notan opera that's done very much
and then I remember, you know,some of my classmates wanted to
go to opera, so we sat in theguards.
You know the family circle,upper family circle, and I
(03:53):
remember, when the opera opens,the prima donna and Gioconda and
her mother, la Checa, comes onthe stage.
Before they opened their mouth,the audience erupted Brava,
bravissima.
I said what is this?
And then, well, I became a fan,a lifelong fan, since January
1967.
And the prima donna was RenataTabaldi.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Wow, tabaldi was in the first opera that you saw.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yes, and I became a big Tabaudi fan over the years.
In fact, I don't know, do Ihave it here?
I actually have a Tabaudi CDthat was my, you know because of
me, because it was my tape.
Anyway, never mind, let's focuson Canada.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
We will move on from the Met and move into your
memories of opera in Canada andof will move on from the Met and
move into your memories ofopera in Canada and of Opera
Canada magazine.
So think back.
Your first article, Joseph, wasin 1995, I think.
So can you go back and tell ushow that came about, what your
background was with the magazine, how you learned about us, that
(05:04):
article?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
was 30 years ago, almost exactly with Ben Hepnall
on the cover.
But before that I have had alonger history with the magazine
.
In the 80s, through OperaCircles, I met the founder of
Opera Canada, the formerMetropolitan Opera soprano, ruby
Mercer, and I was just a fan.
(05:26):
And I met her in a lineupgetting tickets and stuff and I
was just.
You know, I was already anacademic but I wasn't doing any
music writing, but I wasinterested.
I loved her radio program OperaTime.
She had several programs overthe years and so you know we
(05:47):
chatted up and then she wouldinvite me as her plus one.
It is called ie.
She would have two mediatickets and then I would be the
extra person.
So yeah, so I befriended herand she encouraged me to go into
writing.
And in the early 90s I reallystarted in earnest.
And when she retired in 1992,first the magazine was taken
(06:13):
over editorship by Harvey Shuzet, but then he died and then
Wayne Gooding took over andWayne accepted my first article,
full-length article.
Before that I had tiny tidbitshere and there in a magazine
about Teresa Stratas and so on,but the Hamner article 1995, and
(06:37):
I haven't turned back since.
I don't know how many hundredsof articles I have written for
Opera Canada and elsewhere and Ilove it.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Well, I don't know how many total articles you've
written either, but might be avery good trivia question for
somebody to look for.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I don't know where they are.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I know that it is something that you still do for
us.
In fact, the upcoming issuewhich celebrates this year's
Ruby Awards named in honor offounder Ruby Mercer.
You do an interview in thatissue with soprano Jane
Archibald.
Do you tend to write typicallyinterviews?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yes, mostly.
I would say 80-90%.
You know, as a retiredanthropologist what is
anthropology but life history,and which involve interviewing
people, right?
So I just apply myanthropological technique to use
it to interview singers.
And I began interviewingsingers Maureen Forrester, lois
(07:45):
Marshall, the great LoisMarshall, pat Kern, I mean.
In fact I interviewed a wholebunch, lot of older singers,
particularly women, andapparently my anthropological
interview technique went overwell with them and they love
being interviewed by me.
(08:07):
I will say something that couldbe funny.
I mean, you know a lot of theseolder singers that I
interviewed.
A few months or a few shortyears later they passed away.
So I think now older singersare maybe a little bit hesitant
to be interviewed by me.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I will remember that, when giving it a chance, only
young singers for interviewswith Joseph, although, to be
fair, in the last year you haveinterviewed Gerald Finlay for us
and Gerald is still fine, forall that I've heard.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So I interviewed him last year.
He said he was 64.
I said, oh, 64, and he's stillsinging fantastic.
And I asked him how many moreyears do you want to sing?
Oh, at least 10.
So that means he's going tosing until 74.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
At least he said he should hold him to that at least
, because he still soundswonderful and he's so
spectacular on stage that wewant to keep him there as long
as we selfishly can do so.
Joseph.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah, you know I love interviewing singers because
they have such a fascinatinghistory and I guess they have a
talent that I don't have.
Let's just say I never had avoice that people would pay
money to hear, so I admire themand some of my very best
experiences are frominterviewing singers.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Are there any that you remember in particular?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
interviewing singers.
Are there any that you rememberin particular?
Oh yeah, well, of course, benbeing the first one.
And then I interviewed AdriennePishanka.
I interviewed oh my god,maureen Foster was extremely
memorable.
She was the first Whoopi'srecipient and I was.
I must tell this story because Iwas assigned to interview her.
I called her, made anappointment, showed up in time,
(10:05):
parked my car.
She was living in thePerforming Arts Lodge, which was
a retired artist behind theO'Keeffe Center.
I parked my car, I broughtflowers for her, walked to
PayPal.
I parked my car, I broughtflowers for her, walked to Pell
and there was Maureen sitting inthe street I mean standing in
the street corner waiting for me.
I thought how wonderful.
So I went up to her.
I said, oh hi, maureen.
(10:26):
And I gave her the flowers andshe said hi.
And then she smiled and said,oh, beautiful flowers.
And then she gave it back to me.
She said it's not for me.
I said yes, maureen, of courseI got the flowers for you.
She said, oh, thank you, shesaid, and she admired it some
more and then eventually shesaid oh no, no, it's not for me.
I said yes, maureen, I'm JosephStowe from Opera Canada.
(10:49):
I'm here to interview you andshe said, oh my God, picking me
up shopping right now, I'm atthe seat corner waiting for him.
Well, she completely forgotabout the interview.
I should give a bit of abackstory, because by the summer
of 2000, she was already fairlywell advanced in her dementia.
(11:09):
She had, I guess, alzheimer's.
So she just didn't remember ourappointment and Daniel would,
and Daniel would come.
You know, all of a suddenDaniel showed up and said oh,
you guys go ahead, do theinterview, I'll go and have a
cup of coffee.
So we went into the performingarts lounge, into the lounge,
and Maureen said oh, shouldn't Ihave?
(11:32):
Shouldn't the flowers be inwater?
I said yes, and then she said,oh, let me go and get a picture
of water.
And she laughed.
I thought, oh my God, this isthe last I will see of her.
What's she doing back, believeit or not, with a picture of
water?
So we did the interview, but bythen her memory was such that,
(11:53):
no matter what I asked her, shealways ends her answer with oh,
I'm always prepared and I'malways on time.
Conductors love me.
No matter what I ask her, shehas reverted back to that.
So that article in the 2000issue of Opera Canada was mostly
me Access it on the Patreon atpatreoncom.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
slash Opera canada.
I joseph didn't warn me he wasgoing to speak about that issue
so, as he's been talking, I'vebeen madly flipping through
covers that would be found involume 41, issue 3 from fall
2000 is the very, very firstopera canada awards.
They weren't even officiallycalled the Rubies at that point.
(12:39):
Yeah, so that issue that you'relooking for for that interview
with Maureen is Volume 43, issue3, fall 2000.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
That was an unforgettable interview and of
course since then I met her afew more times and it was within
two years, then she two tothree years after that.
She then was moved to BelmontHouse, which was a retirement
home, but she was on theAlzheimer's wing, the floor,
(13:11):
Alzheimer's floor, and I wouldvisit her together with a mutual
friend, Ruth Morowitz, who wasthe widow of Oscar Morowitz and
a good friend of Maureen Anyway.
So I won't go on.
I mean, there's plenty moreabout the Maureen story, but I
won't.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It's interesting that you speak about Maureen One of
the things that I find reallyimportant about the back issues
of Opera Canada magazine and asI look at them and as I see
features with singers, I'mreminded of all of the people
that we've lost from this scenein Canada.
(13:56):
We've lost artists, singers,we've lost directors and really,
really important leaders inthis sector, and I think that
that's something that's reallyimportant.
One of the interviews, one ofthe articles that you wrote
(14:16):
because it was less an interviewthan it was a tribute, but that
I remember was the tribute thatyou wrote about Erin Wall
shortly after her passing,soprano Erin Wall, and this
would be in the Winter 2020issue.
So this is more recent thansome of your other memories, but
(14:37):
what can you tell us about yourmemories of Erin Wall?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I have very, very sweet memories of Erin.
I actually, you know, I wasgoing through the bad issues and
I found my short article on her.
It was together with some othersingers, around 2003 or 2004.
She was just starting out fromChicago.
(15:03):
She was still when I wrote thatarticle.
She was still in the lastmonths of her time at the Ryan
Center in Chicago Live Opera andthen she made it big very
quickly.
Oh, I know, her debut was asDonna Anna in Don Giovanni,
(15:26):
unplanned because the primadonna at Chicago Lyric was
Kalita Matila.
She was sick and then Erinstepped in.
Can you imagine starting at thetop and then since then I've
been following her career allthat time and I've written an
article on her in maybe 2015 or2014,.
And her health has never beenreally very good and I remember
(15:53):
she really was uncomfortabletalking about her health but she
eventually told me, I thinkaround 2015,.
At the end of the interview shehesitated but she said that she
had MS.
But it turned out that MS didnot kill her, it was
metastasized breast cancer.
Very, very sad 2000, 2020.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Goodness, yeah, and she was quite young, because I
think she was probably in her40s yes, 44,.
Yeah, her mid-40s.
So it was a great loss.
I remember hearing her sing thetitle role in Arabella and
being absolutely spellbound.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Absolutely.
I saw her sing Arabella both inSanta Fe and at the COC
Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
One of this year's Ruby recipients in fact was
opposite her in that productionat the COC, because she she said
Bella and Jane Archibald wasDanka.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
So it was.
It was quite.
It was quite a production andthe production itself was
beautiful.
I remember it very, verystrongly because I was, in fact,
living in Saskatchewan at thetime but happened to be in town
when it was playing.
So I went to see it and I'm sothrilled that I got to hear Erin
sing a role that was so amazingand so much part of her, really
(17:17):
her prime repertoire, so it wasreally incredible.
You mentioned knowing RubyMercer, who was the founder.
Ruby Mercer is one of thosealmost legendary, mythical
features in the Canadian operascene.
In addition to founding OperaCanada magazine, she was the
(17:38):
founder of the CanadianChildren's Opera Company as well
, which is, of course, stillgoing strong and is a really,
really exciting institution.
In addition to performing theirown work, they perform as the
Children's Chorus for COCProductions.
So it is really an exciting.
(17:58):
Ruby has left an excitinglegacy, which we, of course,
honor each year with the Rubies.
Do you have any memories ofRuby that you would like to
share, which?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
are oh, I have fantastic memories.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Let's go that way which you're able to share
publicly, joseph.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I have to mind my P's and Q's, everything about Ruby
I love.
And, as I said, you know, Ibefriended her and she
encouraged me to do writing andshe would invite me to go to
concerts and operas with her.
I remember one time, afterwards, often we would go out to eat,
but then I suggested, ruby, whydon't we go back to your place,
(18:41):
I will cook you supper.
I mean, of course, my ulteriormotive other than wanting to
show that I can cook, but also,to you know, to look at her
memorabilia.
That's what I wanted to do.
She lived on Walnut Road and sowell anyway, cooking part of it
(19:02):
was actually more difficultthan I thought because she had
nothing in her fridge, hardlyanything.
And so I was looking at hermemorabilia, her scrapbooks, and
I saw in the scrapbook a bigyellow piece of newspaper.
It says Foundling, now famousmad soprano.
And I thought Ruby Foundling,now famous mad soprano.
And I thought Ruby foundling,now famous mad soprano.
(19:23):
And she said yes.
She said I was found on thedoorstep of a Mr and Mrs Mercer
in Athens, ohio.
So she didn't know herbiological parents.
She was a foundling.
You know just that alone.
And then from that on, I havehad many more different memories
(19:44):
of Ruby, very colorful woman,always a smile, always positive.
I loved her radio program,opera program and she really is
like that in real life.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
If you, for listeners who want to learn more or hear
more anecdotes about Ruby.
The spring 1999 issue, volume40, issue one of that year, was
in fact her memorial issue andthere's about 10 to 12 pages of
some of the brightest Canadianopera and music lights writing
their memories of Ruby Mercer.
It's a very, very special issueand well worth looking up in
(20:32):
our archives on Patreon.
Some of the people that writeabout Ruby for that issue
include Louis Quilico andWilliam Littler, who was the
longtime music critic for theToronto Star, and Lotfi Mansouri
, who ran the Canadian OperaCompany for many years before
moving on to San Francisco.
The people who share theirmemories of Ruby are really many
(20:57):
of the primary figures of operain this country.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I like to end these podcasts.
I didn't warn you this, joseph,and this may be hard.
I like to end this podcast bydoing a really quick speed round
, and so I'm going to ask someshort questions and you say the
fastest answer that comes toyour mind oh, I see, oh, my God.
(21:27):
So, almost without explanation,the first thing you think of
okay, what's your favorite opera?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Oh, La Gioconda, isn't it weird?
That's the last thing that wetalked about, I guess.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Well, it's the first opera that you saw.
Do you think that's the lastthing that we talked about, I
guess?
Well, it's the first opera thatyou saw.
Do you think that's the reason?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, maybe, but I'm also a Wagner writer, you know.
So I love Parsifal, I loveDemise Singer, the
Friggenhollander, I love youknow.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Do you have a favorite recording of it?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Oh, the Tabaldi recording, of course 1967.
Of course, oh, the Tabaudirecording, of course 1967.
Of course, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
That, of course, also brings back memories of your
first seeing it.
I'm almost afraid to ask if Iasked your favorite singer ever?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Oh, that's hard.
I really I'm not sure I have,I'm not sure I can nail it down
to one.
I mean, you know singers, someare great artists, Some have
great voices, you know, some areso beautiful, you know.
So they all have their positiveattributes.
You know things that I love, soit's impossible really for me
(22:38):
to pick one.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
One of the things that I notice is you write
reviews for us because you alsodo reviews for Opera Canada and
right now I think I have youassigned to do all the Canadian
Opera Company reviews you didlast season and for this coming
season as well, which is a realtreat for our readers.
But you talk about some havebeautiful voices, some have
really are lovely artists.
(23:02):
What is it that you look for,Joseph?
What makes a fabulous operasinger for you?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
A fabulous opera season.
A little bit of German opera, abit one French opera, tons of
Italian operas.
And the great singers, I meantoday.
I mean they are always funny.
I'm afraid I'm sounding like anold fogey, but I think that the
singers today are wonderful.
But I really miss singers ofthe past.
(23:31):
If I had to choose, you know, Imean today, like people like I
don't know Jonas Kaufman isfantastic, freddy DiTomaso, you
know.
Michael Fabiano, people likethat, you know.
But how can I forget FrancoCorelli, mario Delmonaco, people
like Giuseppe Stefano?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
You have a strong affection for tenors, after
interviewing all of your divas,and I appreciate that I do.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
You know, the funny thing is, tenors are great to
the ear but not great subjectsfor interviews.
They are the real devils.
Honestly, I've interviewedhundreds of people and I think
there are just a few that werenot absolutely perfect, and they
(24:20):
are mostly tenors.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
That's fascinating.
I won't ask.
You may have to cut that outtoo.
We'll not ask for the name, butI will say that Tahu Matheson
at Opera Australia, with whom Iwas speaking in the spring I got
to interview Tahu actually saidthat Kaufman was one of the
nicest people that he'd workedwith too.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
I interviewed him in the cafeteria of the Munich
Opera and he was very nice.
That was 2011.
He had just come back from avocal crisis.
He agreed to the interview andthen, immediately within an hour
(25:05):
, I got an email from hismanagement.
He said Karl Mann would notanswer questions about his
health or questions about hisfamily Health, being that he
just recovered from illness andfamily I guess he had just
divorced.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Well, but nonetheless , I'm sure you found wonderful
things to chat about.
Oh yeah, joseph is always agreat writer for people who read
our magazine.
There is, as I've mentionedalready, an interview that
Joseph did in the upcoming fallissue the fall 2025 issue of
(25:43):
Opera Canada magazine, whichshould be on newsstands around
the beginning of October.
It celebrates all of thisyear's Ruby recipients, so I
really hope you'll pick it upand enjoy that as much as
actually I enjoy the issue quitea bit.
Joseph's writing is wonderfuland the other writers who do the
(26:04):
features about this year'srecipients are also really
lovely writers, both at thelatter stages of their career,
joseph, but also a couple ofwriters at the very early stages
of their career.
So it's a wonderful, wonderfulissue to pick up and read and it
, of course, will also beavailable on Patreon.
(26:24):
Once again, the address ispatreoncom slash opera canada to
access our complete archives asof Thursday September 25th.
So please join us.
Free members at Patreon can seeall the covers and all of the
tables of contents.
There are bonuses, of course,on Patreon for paid members.
(26:45):
At $3 a month, you get to takepart in polls to help us shape
the future of the magazine.
You get early access to some ofour features, like Artist of
the Week, and you also receive,with your $3 membership, you get
access to every past issue,except for the four most recent
(27:08):
issues.
In order to do that, you haveto become a member at our
highest class, which is only $5a month.
That's less than you're likelyto spend at Starbucks these days
.
And here's the bonus that Ihinted at the beginning is the
bonus that I hinted at thebeginning If you use the code
(27:29):
OPERAGLASSES50, that is alluppercase, no lowercase letters
at all, no spaces OPERAGLASSES50.
If you use that, you get 50% offyour Patreon for your first
month.
So please join us Once again.
This is Michael Jones for theOpera Glasses podcast.
Joseph, thank you so so muchfor being with us today.
It is, as always, it's a realtreat for me to get to speak to
(27:54):
you, hear your stories and tojust marvel in the knowledge of
the singers that you knew, thatyou've met, and the stories that
you have to tell about them.
So thank you for sharing thosewith our listeners.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Thank you for having me.
I had a great, a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Thank you, and thanks to all of you for listening to
us today Once again.
This is Michael Jones with theOpera Glasses podcast.
Hello and welcome to the Opera Glasses podcast, the
official podcast of Opera Canadamagazine.
This is the beginning of ourfourth season of Opera Glasses
and we're really pleased to haveyou listen to us today.
For those of you who haven'tmet me, my name is Michael Jones
.
I'm the editorial director ofOpera Canada magazine and I'm
(00:28):
proud to be the host of theOpera Glasses podcast.
And this is a really excitingweek for Opera Canada magazine
when we're releasing thispodcast, because on Thursday,
september 25th, after about atwo-year project that was begun
by the last editor-in-chief,elizabeth Bowman, working with
(00:49):
then-chair Eva Innes, we arelaunching the full archives of
Opera Canada magazine 65-plusyears of publishing Opera Canada
magazine.
Publishing Opera Canadamagazine, we are the longest
continuously publishing artsmagazine in the country and it's
an incredible resource of howthis art form has developed and
(01:12):
changed in this country since1960.
So we will be releasing that onThursday, september 25th on
Patreon.
The Patreon address ispatreoncom slash opera canada.
So we hope that you will bejoining us as a member of our
Patreon.
(01:32):
And if you listen to the end ofthis podcast, there's a special
deal I'll tell you about, but inorder to celebrate the opening
of the archives, I wanted tospeak to one of the writers for
Opera Canada who has, quitefrankly, been with us the
longest.
I think he's been writing forthe magazine now for over 30
years.
He was also one of the firstwriters that I met, both over
(01:56):
Zoom and in person, when I beganworking at Opera Canada
magazine, and he's somebody thatI love speaking with.
Joseph so has an almostencyclopedic memory of having
seen operatic performances foryears and years and years.
His living room is a treasuretrove of memorabilia.
(02:19):
I'll say it that way, joseph atreasure trove of memorabilia.
Photos of all of the divas he'sinterviewed, or at least some
of the divas he's interviewed,signed with wishing him all the
best.
He has been beloved by many inthis community and I.
Just as we celebrate therelease of the archives and all
(02:42):
the history, it seemed fittingthat we speak today with Joseph
so and that he shares some ofhis memories with us.
So welcome, joseph, to OperaGlasses.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, thank you, michael.
Thank you for having me.
First of all, yes, I'm a writer, I'm a retired academic and all
that, but above all else, I ama fan, and I have been a fan
since I attended my first liveopera in January 1967.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
In.
January 1967, Joseph.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yes, maybe you weren't born yet.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I was born.
I admit to being born in 2004.
But no, I had just been born.
What was that first opera thatyou saw?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It was something that I had never heard of before.
It was La Gioconda At the Met.
I was a student.
I remember Ponchielli it's notan opera that's done very much
and then I remember, you know,some of my classmates wanted to
go to opera, so we sat in theguards.
You know the family circle,upper family circle, and I
(03:53):
remember, when the opera opens,the prima donna and Gioconda and
her mother, la Checa, comes onthe stage.
Before they opened their mouth,the audience erupted Brava,
bravissima.
I said what is this?
And then, well, I became a fan,a lifelong fan, since January
1967.
And the prima donna was RenataTabaldi.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Wow, tabaldi was in the first opera that you saw.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yes, and I became a big Tabaudi fan over the years.
In fact, I don't know, do Ihave it here?
I actually have a Tabaudi CDthat was my, you know because of
me, because it was my tape.
Anyway, never mind, let's focuson Canada.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
We will move on from the Met and move into your
memories of opera in Canada andof will move on from the Met and
move into your memories ofopera in Canada and of Opera
Canada magazine.
So think back.
Your first article, Joseph, wasin 1995, I think.
So can you go back and tell ushow that came about, what your
background was with the magazine, how you learned about us, that
(05:04):
article?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
was 30 years ago, almost exactly with Ben Hepnall
on the cover.
But before that I have had alonger history with the magazine
.
In the 80s, through OperaCircles, I met the founder of
Opera Canada, the formerMetropolitan Opera soprano, ruby
Mercer, and I was just a fan.
(05:26):
And I met her in a lineupgetting tickets and stuff and I
was just.
You know, I was already anacademic but I wasn't doing any
music writing, but I wasinterested.
I loved her radio program OperaTime.
She had several programs overthe years and so you know we
(05:47):
chatted up and then she wouldinvite me as her plus one.
It is called ie.
She would have two mediatickets and then I would be the
extra person.
So yeah, so I befriended herand she encouraged me to go into
writing.
And in the early 90s I reallystarted in earnest.
And when she retired in 1992,first the magazine was taken
(06:13):
over editorship by Harvey Shuzet, but then he died and then
Wayne Gooding took over andWayne accepted my first article,
full-length article.
Before that I had tiny tidbitshere and there in a magazine
about Teresa Stratas and so on,but the Hamner article 1995, and
(06:37):
I haven't turned back since.
I don't know how many hundredsof articles I have written for
Opera Canada and elsewhere and Ilove it.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Well, I don't know how many total articles you've
written either, but might be avery good trivia question for
somebody to look for.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I don't know where they are.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I know that it is something that you still do for
us.
In fact, the upcoming issuewhich celebrates this year's
Ruby Awards named in honor offounder Ruby Mercer.
You do an interview in thatissue with soprano Jane
Archibald.
Do you tend to write typicallyinterviews?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yes, mostly.
I would say 80-90%.
You know, as a retiredanthropologist what is
anthropology but life history,and which involve interviewing
people, right?
So I just apply myanthropological technique to use
it to interview singers.
And I began interviewingsingers Maureen Forrester, lois
(07:45):
Marshall, the great LoisMarshall, pat Kern, I mean.
In fact I interviewed a wholebunch, lot of older singers,
particularly women, andapparently my anthropological
interview technique went overwell with them and they love
being interviewed by me.
(08:07):
I will say something that couldbe funny.
I mean, you know a lot of theseolder singers that I
interviewed.
A few months or a few shortyears later they passed away.
So I think now older singersare maybe a little bit hesitant
to be interviewed by me.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I will remember that, when giving it a chance, only
young singers for interviewswith Joseph, although, to be
fair, in the last year you haveinterviewed Gerald Finlay for us
and Gerald is still fine, forall that I've heard.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So I interviewed him last year.
He said he was 64.
I said, oh, 64, and he's stillsinging fantastic.
And I asked him how many moreyears do you want to sing?
Oh, at least 10.
So that means he's going tosing until 74.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
At least he said he should hold him to that at least
, because he still soundswonderful and he's so
spectacular on stage that wewant to keep him there as long
as we selfishly can do so.
Joseph.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah, you know I love interviewing singers because
they have such a fascinatinghistory and I guess they have a
talent that I don't have.
Let's just say I never had avoice that people would pay
money to hear, so I admire themand some of my very best
experiences are frominterviewing singers.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Are there any that you remember in particular?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
interviewing singers.
Are there any that you rememberin particular?
Oh yeah, well, of course, benbeing the first one.
And then I interviewed AdriennePishanka.
I interviewed oh my god,maureen Foster was extremely
memorable.
She was the first Whoopi'srecipient and I was.
I must tell this story because Iwas assigned to interview her.
I called her, made anappointment, showed up in time,
(10:05):
parked my car.
She was living in thePerforming Arts Lodge, which was
a retired artist behind theO'Keeffe Center.
I parked my car, I broughtflowers for her, walked to
PayPal.
I parked my car, I broughtflowers for her, walked to Pell
and there was Maureen sitting inthe street I mean standing in
the street corner waiting for me.
I thought how wonderful.
So I went up to her.
I said, oh hi, maureen.
(10:26):
And I gave her the flowers andshe said hi.
And then she smiled and said,oh, beautiful flowers.
And then she gave it back to me.
She said it's not for me.
I said yes, maureen, of courseI got the flowers for you.
She said, oh, thank you, shesaid, and she admired it some
more and then eventually shesaid oh no, no, it's not for me.
I said yes, maureen, I'm JosephStowe from Opera Canada.
(10:49):
I'm here to interview you andshe said, oh my God, picking me
up shopping right now, I'm atthe seat corner waiting for him.
Well, she completely forgotabout the interview.
I should give a bit of abackstory, because by the summer
of 2000, she was already fairlywell advanced in her dementia.
(11:09):
She had, I guess, alzheimer's.
So she just didn't remember ourappointment and Daniel would,
and Daniel would come.
You know, all of a suddenDaniel showed up and said oh,
you guys go ahead, do theinterview, I'll go and have a
cup of coffee.
So we went into the performingarts lounge, into the lounge,
and Maureen said oh, shouldn't Ihave?
(11:32):
Shouldn't the flowers be inwater?
I said yes, and then she said,oh, let me go and get a picture
of water.
And she laughed.
I thought, oh my God, this isthe last I will see of her.
What's she doing back, believeit or not, with a picture of
water?
So we did the interview, but bythen her memory was such that,
(11:53):
no matter what I asked her, shealways ends her answer with oh,
I'm always prepared and I'malways on time.
Conductors love me.
No matter what I ask her, shehas reverted back to that.
So that article in the 2000issue of Opera Canada was mostly
me Access it on the Patreon atpatreoncom.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
slash Opera canada.
I joseph didn't warn me he wasgoing to speak about that issue
so, as he's been talking, I'vebeen madly flipping through
covers that would be found involume 41, issue 3 from fall
2000 is the very, very firstopera canada awards.
They weren't even officiallycalled the Rubies at that point.
(12:39):
Yeah, so that issue that you'relooking for for that interview
with Maureen is Volume 43, issue3, fall 2000.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
That was an unforgettable interview and of
course since then I met her afew more times and it was within
two years, then she two tothree years after that.
She then was moved to BelmontHouse, which was a retirement
home, but she was on theAlzheimer's wing, the floor,
(13:11):
Alzheimer's floor, and I wouldvisit her together with a mutual
friend, Ruth Morowitz, who wasthe widow of Oscar Morowitz and
a good friend of Maureen Anyway.
So I won't go on.
I mean, there's plenty moreabout the Maureen story, but I
won't.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It's interesting that you speak about Maureen One of
the things that I find reallyimportant about the back issues
of Opera Canada magazine and asI look at them and as I see
features with singers, I'mreminded of all of the people
that we've lost from this scenein Canada.
(13:56):
We've lost artists, singers,we've lost directors and really,
really important leaders inthis sector, and I think that
that's something that's reallyimportant.
One of the interviews, one ofthe articles that you wrote
(14:16):
because it was less an interviewthan it was a tribute, but that
I remember was the tribute thatyou wrote about Erin Wall
shortly after her passing,soprano Erin Wall, and this
would be in the Winter 2020issue.
So this is more recent thansome of your other memories, but
(14:37):
what can you tell us about yourmemories of Erin Wall?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I have very, very sweet memories of Erin.
I actually, you know, I wasgoing through the bad issues and
I found my short article on her.
It was together with some othersingers, around 2003 or 2004.
She was just starting out fromChicago.
(15:03):
She was still when I wrote thatarticle.
She was still in the lastmonths of her time at the Ryan
Center in Chicago Live Opera andthen she made it big very
quickly.
Oh, I know, her debut was asDonna Anna in Don Giovanni,
(15:26):
unplanned because the primadonna at Chicago Lyric was
Kalita Matila.
She was sick and then Erinstepped in.
Can you imagine starting at thetop and then since then I've
been following her career allthat time and I've written an
article on her in maybe 2015 or2014,.
And her health has never beenreally very good and I remember
(15:53):
she really was uncomfortabletalking about her health but she
eventually told me, I thinkaround 2015,.
At the end of the interview shehesitated but she said that she
had MS.
But it turned out that MS didnot kill her, it was
metastasized breast cancer.
Very, very sad 2000, 2020.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Goodness, yeah, and she was quite young, because I
think she was probably in her40s yes, 44,.
Yeah, her mid-40s.
So it was a great loss.
I remember hearing her sing thetitle role in Arabella and
being absolutely spellbound.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Absolutely.
I saw her sing Arabella both inSanta Fe and at the COC
Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
One of this year's Ruby recipients in fact was
opposite her in that productionat the COC, because she she said
Bella and Jane Archibald wasDanka.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
So it was.
It was quite.
It was quite a production andthe production itself was
beautiful.
I remember it very, verystrongly because I was, in fact,
living in Saskatchewan at thetime but happened to be in town
when it was playing.
So I went to see it and I'm sothrilled that I got to hear Erin
sing a role that was so amazingand so much part of her, really
(17:17):
her prime repertoire, so it wasreally incredible.
You mentioned knowing RubyMercer, who was the founder.
Ruby Mercer is one of thosealmost legendary, mythical
features in the Canadian operascene.
In addition to founding OperaCanada magazine, she was the
(17:38):
founder of the CanadianChildren's Opera Company as well
, which is, of course, stillgoing strong and is a really,
really exciting institution.
In addition to performing theirown work, they perform as the
Children's Chorus for COCProductions.
So it is really an exciting.
(17:58):
Ruby has left an excitinglegacy, which we, of course,
honor each year with the Rubies.
Do you have any memories ofRuby that you would like to
share, which?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
are oh, I have fantastic memories.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Let's go that way which you're able to share
publicly, joseph.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I have to mind my P's and Q's, everything about Ruby
I love.
And, as I said, you know, Ibefriended her and she
encouraged me to do writing andshe would invite me to go to
concerts and operas with her.
I remember one time, afterwards, often we would go out to eat,
but then I suggested, ruby, whydon't we go back to your place,
(18:41):
I will cook you supper.
I mean, of course, my ulteriormotive other than wanting to
show that I can cook, but also,to you know, to look at her
memorabilia.
That's what I wanted to do.
She lived on Walnut Road and sowell anyway, cooking part of it
(19:02):
was actually more difficultthan I thought because she had
nothing in her fridge, hardlyanything.
And so I was looking at hermemorabilia, her scrapbooks, and
I saw in the scrapbook a bigyellow piece of newspaper.
It says Foundling, now famousmad soprano.
And I thought Ruby Foundling,now famous mad soprano.
And I thought Ruby foundling,now famous mad soprano.
(19:23):
And she said yes.
She said I was found on thedoorstep of a Mr and Mrs Mercer
in Athens, ohio.
So she didn't know herbiological parents.
She was a foundling.
You know just that alone.
And then from that on, I havehad many more different memories
(19:44):
of Ruby, very colorful woman,always a smile, always positive.
I loved her radio program,opera program and she really is
like that in real life.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
If you, for listeners who want to learn more or hear
more anecdotes about Ruby.
The spring 1999 issue, volume40, issue one of that year, was
in fact her memorial issue andthere's about 10 to 12 pages of
some of the brightest Canadianopera and music lights writing
their memories of Ruby Mercer.
It's a very, very special issueand well worth looking up in
(20:32):
our archives on Patreon.
Some of the people that writeabout Ruby for that issue
include Louis Quilico andWilliam Littler, who was the
longtime music critic for theToronto Star, and Lotfi Mansouri
, who ran the Canadian OperaCompany for many years before
moving on to San Francisco.
The people who share theirmemories of Ruby are really many
(20:57):
of the primary figures of operain this country.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I like to end these podcasts.
I didn't warn you this, joseph,and this may be hard.
I like to end this podcast bydoing a really quick speed round
, and so I'm going to ask someshort questions and you say the
fastest answer that comes toyour mind oh, I see, oh, my God.
(21:27):
So, almost without explanation,the first thing you think of
okay, what's your favorite opera?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Oh, La Gioconda, isn't it weird?
That's the last thing that wetalked about, I guess.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Well, it's the first opera that you saw.
Do you think that's the lastthing that we talked about, I
guess?
Well, it's the first opera thatyou saw.
Do you think that's the reason?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, maybe, but I'm also a Wagner writer, you know.
So I love Parsifal, I loveDemise Singer, the
Friggenhollander, I love youknow.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Do you have a favorite recording of it?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Oh, the Tabaldi recording, of course 1967.
Of course, oh, the Tabaudirecording, of course 1967.
Of course, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
That, of course, also brings back memories of your
first seeing it.
I'm almost afraid to ask if Iasked your favorite singer ever?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Oh, that's hard.
I really I'm not sure I have,I'm not sure I can nail it down
to one.
I mean, you know singers, someare great artists, Some have
great voices, you know, some areso beautiful, you know.
So they all have their positiveattributes.
You know things that I love, soit's impossible really for me
(22:38):
to pick one.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
One of the things that I notice is you write
reviews for us because you alsodo reviews for Opera Canada and
right now I think I have youassigned to do all the Canadian
Opera Company reviews you didlast season and for this coming
season as well, which is a realtreat for our readers.
But you talk about some havebeautiful voices, some have
really are lovely artists.
(23:02):
What is it that you look for,Joseph?
What makes a fabulous operasinger for you?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
A fabulous opera season.
A little bit of German opera, abit one French opera, tons of
Italian operas.
And the great singers, I meantoday.
I mean they are always funny.
I'm afraid I'm sounding like anold fogey, but I think that the
singers today are wonderful.
But I really miss singers ofthe past.
(23:31):
If I had to choose, you know, Imean today, like people like I
don't know Jonas Kaufman isfantastic, freddy DiTomaso, you
know.
Michael Fabiano, people likethat, you know.
But how can I forget FrancoCorelli, mario Delmonaco, people
like Giuseppe Stefano?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
You have a strong affection for tenors, after
interviewing all of your divas,and I appreciate that I do.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
You know, the funny thing is, tenors are great to
the ear but not great subjectsfor interviews.
They are the real devils.
Honestly, I've interviewedhundreds of people and I think
there are just a few that werenot absolutely perfect, and they
(24:20):
are mostly tenors.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
That's fascinating.
I won't ask.
You may have to cut that outtoo.
We'll not ask for the name, butI will say that Tahu Matheson
at Opera Australia, with whom Iwas speaking in the spring I got
to interview Tahu actually saidthat Kaufman was one of the
nicest people that he'd workedwith too.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
I interviewed him in the cafeteria of the Munich
Opera and he was very nice.
That was 2011.
He had just come back from avocal crisis.
He agreed to the interview andthen, immediately within an hour
(25:05):
, I got an email from hismanagement.
He said Karl Mann would notanswer questions about his
health or questions about hisfamily Health, being that he
just recovered from illness andfamily I guess he had just
divorced.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Well, but nonetheless , I'm sure you found wonderful
things to chat about.
Oh yeah, joseph is always agreat writer for people who read
our magazine.
There is, as I've mentionedalready, an interview that
Joseph did in the upcoming fallissue the fall 2025 issue of
(25:43):
Opera Canada magazine, whichshould be on newsstands around
the beginning of October.
It celebrates all of thisyear's Ruby recipients, so I
really hope you'll pick it upand enjoy that as much as
actually I enjoy the issue quitea bit.
Joseph's writing is wonderfuland the other writers who do the
(26:04):
features about this year'srecipients are also really
lovely writers, both at thelatter stages of their career,
joseph, but also a couple ofwriters at the very early stages
of their career.
So it's a wonderful, wonderfulissue to pick up and read and it
, of course, will also beavailable on Patreon.
(26:24):
Once again, the address ispatreoncom slash opera canada to
access our complete archives asof Thursday September 25th.
So please join us.
Free members at Patreon can seeall the covers and all of the
tables of contents.
There are bonuses, of course,on Patreon for paid members.
(26:45):
At $3 a month, you get to takepart in polls to help us shape
the future of the magazine.
You get early access to some ofour features, like Artist of
the Week, and you also receive,with your $3 membership, you get
access to every past issue,except for the four most recent
(27:08):
issues.
In order to do that, you haveto become a member at our
highest class, which is only $5a month.
That's less than you're likelyto spend at Starbucks these days
.
And here's the bonus that Ihinted at the beginning is the
bonus that I hinted at thebeginning If you use the code
(27:29):
OPERAGLASSES50, that is alluppercase, no lowercase letters
at all, no spaces OPERAGLASSES50.
If you use that, you get 50% offyour Patreon for your first
month.
So please join us Once again.
This is Michael Jones for theOpera Glasses podcast.
Joseph, thank you so so muchfor being with us today.
It is, as always, it's a realtreat for me to get to speak to
(27:54):
you, hear your stories and tojust marvel in the knowledge of
the singers that you knew, thatyou've met, and the stories that
you have to tell about them.
So thank you for sharing thosewith our listeners.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Thank you for having me.
I had a great, a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Thank you, and thanks to all of you for listening to
us today Once again.
This is Michael Jones with theOpera Glasses podcast.
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