January 25, 2024 • 39 mins
In this episode, I, Elizabeth Bowman, am joined by the insightful Michael Zarathus-Cook, Managing Editor of the Toronto Symphony Orchestra and Chief Editor of Cannopy Magazine. We're peeling back the curtain on the Emerging Arts Writer Program at the Banff Centre (part of Joel Ivany's Chamber Music and Opera program), revealing the nuts and bolts of nurturing new, vibrant voices in arts journalism. Michael, leaving his basketball enthusiasm courtside, brings his wealth of experience to our conversation, focusing on the need for writers who can create captivating arts coverage that resonates with audiences far and wide.
Linking arms with the creative community is like finding a map to hidden treasure. This episode isn't just about discussion; it's about action, about placing writers in the thick of the creative process, where inspiration flows. We explore how a national registry for arts writers might just be the golden ticket. As our chat winds down, we envision a future where writers and Canadian publications join forces, thanks to programs like Banff Centre's upcoming Emerging Arts Writers component, ensuring a tapestry of structured, intelligent, and emotive arts journalism. Michael and I are excited to share our combined vision, bolstering the connections and opportunities for arts writers across the board.
To apply to the program visit this link. The deadline is January 31, 2024.
All episodes of The Opera Glasses podcast are hosted by the editor of Opera Canada, currently Michael Jones after Elizabeth Bowman hosted seasons 1 and 2. Follow Opera Canada on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and Visit OperaCanada.ca for all of your Canadian Opera news and reviews.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:01):
Hi, my name is Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Opera Glasses podcast.
Today I have Michael Ar Cookwith me.
He is the managing editor ofthe Toronto Symphony Orchestra,
also the chief editor of CanopyMagazine.
He and I will be running theEmerging Arts Writer Program,
part of Joel Ivany's ChamberMusic and Opera Interplay
(00:25):
Program at the Banff Centre thissummer.
The deadline to apply isJanuary 31st and we would like
to encourage all emerging artswriters to apply, so let's bring
Michael in and talk more aboutthis exciting new program.
Michael, welcome to the OperaGlasses podcast.
Thanks so much for being here.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (00:45):
Thank you for having me, Lizzie.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:47):
I read a little bit about you.
Of course, you're a writer, anarts critic, a home cook.
You have strong interests infilm, music and basketball.
Can you just tell me a littlebit about your professional
background?
Michael Zarathus-Coo (01:03):
Absolutely , I'm going to leave the
basketball out of it, otherwise,we're going to be here for
several hours.
I don't know how much timeyou've put aside for this, but,
yes, basketball is the love ofmy life.
It's what keeps me goingthrough the grind of the week.
But professionally, yes, I'm awriter editor based here in
Toronto.
I work for the Toronto Symphony.
(01:23):
I'm their managing editor, butI also run a magazine called
Canopy.
Formerly it was called SmartMagazine.
That I started in 2020, justright at the cusp of the
pandemic.
We're under a new name now, butthe concept of the magazine is
a visual and performing artspublication.
It is under the auspices ofthis magazine that I will be
(01:45):
joining you, lizzie.
I'd bamp this summer to talkabout opera, to talk to opera
singers and makers and,crucially, to also meet some
arts writers.
So very much looking forward tothis collaboration with you.
Thanks again for inviting me tothis chat.
Elizabeth Bowman (02:03):
Yeah, I'm really excited that you'll be
coming to BAMF.
It was my first time last yearin Joel Ivany's opera program
there and I just it wastransformative.
Last year I taught PR andmarketing to the individual
artists and as editor-in-chiefof Opera Canada, I've had a
(02:26):
tough time finding arts writersacross Canada and I thought that
a program such as the one thatis happening in BAMF would be
the perfect place to haveemerging arts writers also to
find people across Canada andreally diversify perspective in
(02:48):
arts journalism in Canada and ingeneral in North America really
.
So I'm really excited that thisprogram is including this for
the first time and also so greatthat you will be sharing in
that education with me.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (03:05):
Awesome and I know we're here to talk
about the arts writing part forthe most part, but the PR work
that you did last year I hopeit's also it remains part of my
job at the symphony is I read alot of artist bios.
You know a lot of these sort oftouring artists come through
the symphony here and I see thatas just one of those places
(03:25):
that artists could do a muchbetter job of selling who they
are.
I find a lot of these artistsbio here's the person and then
it's a giant sort of word saladof everywhere that they've been,
that they're going to be, andit's just you lose people's
attention span in that process.
So if one of the many beautifulthings that can come out of
this program going forward isartists know how to write a
(03:49):
killer 400 word bio that getspeople who've never heard of
them excited about who they areand people who are familiar with
them excited about what they'regoing to do next, I think
that's an incredible service byyou, lizzie, so kudos to you.
Elizabeth Bowman (04:06):
Yeah, I think that the artist bio has always
been a big question mark for forartists.
I mean, some of them are afraidto say too much, but I think in
2024, we can all agree thatwe're open to hearing more in
these bios.
We're open to interestingwriting styles, we're open to
(04:29):
really getting to the core ofwho that human is.
We're open to to connectingwith human, human to human
connection in the bio and not,like you say, the sort of
bibliography.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (04:43):
Yeah, that's a good way to put it, and
I end also like right toreflect the fact that you're an
artist, right?
So if I'm putting together aprogram book, the bio is taking
up a page.
Gets guess what else is alsotaking up a page?
It's the program notes, whichare very artistically.
So you're taking up as muchspace as the other artistic
content in a program book orprogram notes, etc.
(05:05):
So I think, showing off yourartistic instincts and writing,
maybe get one of the artswriters that we're going to be
coaching this June, get one ofthem to write your bio and see
what their artisticinterpretation of your work is.
So I think there's it's veryfertile ground.
The artist bio is very fertileground, especially in opera, for
(05:26):
personality and showing offyour personality.
But that's not what we're hereto talk about, Lizzie, for the
most part, but I'm very muchlooking forward to that
component of it come June.
Elizabeth Bowman (05:37):
Why don't we, why don't we dig into arts
journalism in North America?
Yes because you know, from my,from my career perspective,
having started a PR business in2010, when there were full time
arts journalists working, andthen seeing that change so
(06:02):
drastically in the in my 11years doing my business, to
having barely any full time artsjournalists in 2021, when I
when I closed out my businessand moved on, people might
wonder why are we doing thisprogram if there are no full
time jobs?
But there is absolutely roomFor business in this area.
(06:27):
It's just different.
We've changed how wecommunicate arts coverage and I
think that obviously, newspapersand magazines should continue
to have people who are who arehired full-time, but even if
they don't, there is, there'sdefinitely room for this
coverage.
People have an interest in theattention span for it.
(06:48):
So I guess we're there to showinnovative ways to cover and to
move forward.
Would you agree?
Michael Zarathus-Cook (06:57):
I would more than agree, and early you
said let's dig into artscoverage in North America.
Digging in is a bit toogenerous a way to put it,
because there's very little ofit left to dig into.
You'd have to take a scalpel towhat's left, and certainly I'm
preaching to the choir herebecause we were talking just
before I started recording.
Here you have a decade longcase study of where this
(07:19):
industry was 10 years ago versuswhere it is now.
And Even just 10 years ago youcould make a living writing for
fill in the blank NationalMagazine Right, even just a
classical music editor orclassical music writer story or
an opera writer.
Now you have the sort of vague,nebulous arts writer term which
(07:42):
I actually want to embrace, andI'll get to that in a second.
But this idea of Visualizing inan art form is completely gone
out out the window and I'm surewe'll get to solution or we'll
describe the problem at lengthhere.
But maybe we could start a bitwith the solution.
And it always, always startswith better funding.
It right, it Always startsthere.
(08:03):
I wish there was a fancier wayto put it.
I wish there was like a, anindustry lever that you could
pull.
That would fix this.
But if, if funding isn'tsupporting arts writing
specifically as well assupporting everything else that
we're writing about, I don'tthink specific publications are
gonna be able to fill in the gap.
I don't think, you know,editors with as good intentions
(08:24):
as yourself are gonna be able tofill in the gap.
Even In concert with theefforts of other editors and
certainly the writers alone,they're not gonna be able to do
or impact the change that needsto happen.
So, intentional action from thepowers that be with the money
that they have, saying Not onlydo we need to support opera,
classical music, dance, etc.
(08:45):
But the people who write aboutit.
Right, because it's the.
It's the same old thing that ifthe tree falls and no one hears
it, then is it falling?
Blah, blah, blah.
But it's the same concept that,yes, we're.
If you're gonna fund New opera,you're gonna fund grassroots
Canadian composers and so on, ifyou're doing all of that but no
one's hearing about it, or atleast it's not being discussed
(09:06):
in a way that's compelling forthe average Listener or the
average arts patron, then it'salmost as if the money that
you're spending there it's notbeing used as effectively as
possible.
So we need more town criers.
We need more people at alllevels of arts journalism to
talk about the great work that'sthat's happening.
There are other levels to that.
(09:27):
They know.
There's what specificpublications, such as yours in
mind, can can do.
There's also what the writersthemselves can do, and that part
I'm sure we'll get to, orthere's certainly more to talk
about there.
And then, lastly, there's whatthe readers, the audience
members how can you support thework that these writers are
doing?
Because there's a lot that'sbeen lost since, you know, 2010,
(09:47):
when you started, but a fewthings have been gained
platforms like sub stack medium,where you can actually support
specific writers and supporttheir view and support their
writing style in a way thatOffsets, to a certain degree,
the livelihood that they used tohave access to.
So, yes, those are, believe itor not.
That is my abbreviated opinionon on this subject, so I think
(10:11):
I'll pause there.
Just I want to hear what youthink about.
First of all, I want to hearwhat the last ten years, what
that span of time, what you'veseen in that period in terms of
losing Artswriters in Canada andperhaps in the States.
Elizabeth Bowman (10:24):
Well, I can touch on that.
But one thing that I wasthinking of as you were talking
about how sort of writing forone art form is Not going to be
the future, that that we need tosort of diversify what we're
writing about, even beyond theperforming arts.
And some of the most successfulStories that I had during my PR
(10:46):
time was when I cross pitchedto another section of the
newspaper and had had themtelling the story of this
person's career, but through thelens of a completely different
audience.
Like I had one of my clients ina cycling magazine and it
(11:07):
didn't take.
It didn't diminish anythingFrom from the clients work, but
it was interesting to know thatthat client Commuted to her job
as an opera singer with thisbicycle.
It gave a greater layer to whatshe was doing.
And another thing that I find inin arts journalism Is that
(11:29):
oftentimes journalists areintimidated to write about
classical music.
They don't want to make amistake and I think that that's
something that we need to towash away Because it's not so
intimidating.
Of course, that's easy for meto say or for you to say with
your background and knowledgeand your current position, but I
(11:50):
would like to encourage morepeople to speak what they feel
when, when they go to a show andsay what, what happened in In
terms of their perspective andwhat, what did they enjoy?
Why did they enjoy it?
That's that's really thequestion we're asking right when
we're talking about coveringfor performing arts, and that's
really the perspective thatwe're after.
(12:12):
That's how we're gonnadiversify.
Is that we make it less Verybrilliantly, brilliantly well
said, lizzie.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (12:20):
I have so much to say about that and I'll
try to again abbreviate mythoughts on this.
But this sort of issue ofPeople sort of staying
quote-unquote in their lane whenit comes to arts writing, there
are various barriers to thatand I actually think
Publications on the job thateditors do has a huge part to
play in that, because a lot ofpublications are designed,
especially the performing arts,to cannibalize their audiences
(12:44):
in various ways.
The first is you know, if youare a reader of opera Canada or
the whole note or intermissionor the dance current, chances
are you're also a reader of anyother item on that list.
I just threw out part of theCross section that needs to
happen in terms of if I'm a, ifI'm a classical music writer,
(13:04):
I'm I also writing for opera oram I writing for dance etc.
Or theater is thesepublications, I think, could do
a better job of cross talkamongst each other.
There's nothing that stands inthe way of one like an opera
publication doing a partnershiptemporarily with a Classical
music publication and sharingtheir audiences to a certain
(13:25):
degree.
If you look at the people whoare reading you, there is no
such thing as just an operareader.
Right, because if you pullthese people, which I have
consistently, you will see thatthey also read Bok track, they
also read intermission.
They have diverse tastes, right, it's almost it's a minority of
people that only listen toopera or only listen to
(13:48):
classical music or only go tothe theater or only go to the
National Ballet.
More and more, especially theyounger generation, they have
this sort of Amnivorous appetitefor various art forms that I
think editors and andpublications at large need to
find a way to serve in a diverseway.
And I think that's actuallyyour.
Your mindset caters to that.
(14:11):
I think one of your recent postson social media was something
to the effect of Opera Canada ismore than a magazine.
It's a community of thinkers,of writers and creatives.
Certainly, that goes to it.
And then, in terms of you knowyou brought my background as an
example, which is certainly truethat yeah, it's easy for us,
you and I, to say writing aboutclassical music shouldn't be
intimidating.
(14:31):
I actually think it's probablyone of the easiest things to get
into if you're serious about it, and here's what I mean by that
If you're a quote, unquoteserious, creative writer, right,
you, you, you just want towrite and you know you have a
voice.
You know you have a view aboutthings that you see on stage or
in the orchestra pit or whathave you.
Classical music is a perfecttemplate to work out your, to
(14:55):
just exercise that muscle.
I actually I'm far moreintimidated to write about
theater, and I've spoken to mytheater friends about this.
I'm far more intimidated towrite about theater than I am
writing about classical music,because you have so many more
histories to contend with whenit comes to theater.
You've got the.
You know the script, the stageplay.
You've got all of the actors inthe past that contributed to
(15:19):
this specific character.
You've got the vision of thedirector on stage.
You've got the costume.
There are so many things thatyou have to know in order to
begin that conversation intheater, and I can almost hear
all the theater writers yellingat their screen saying that's
not the case, but bear with me.
On the other side, though, withclassical music, you still have
all of these characters in play, but once the conductor gets
(15:41):
started, it's just you in themusic, all it is.
It's you in the music and it'san orchestra trying to be true
to the music and also, obviously, trying to find their voice.
As a writer, that is as blank atemplate as you'll ever get
when it comes to the arts,because you go ahead.
Elizabeth Bowman (15:54):
Not to cut you off, but I find that many
purists would say, for instance,oh, we absolutely have to have
a soprano in this role.
We can't possibly have a mezzo,you know, in X role.
Or actually this is the way thecadenza has been done since you
(16:14):
know 1848.
And therefore you know it isthis way, and so, or we can't
trill on, we can't trill frombelow, because it's this year
that it was written.
You know, there are so many ofthese rules in classical,
baroque, early music, thesetypes of things, not to say that
(16:37):
these rules are not to beapplied.
I'm just saying that I thinkthis same mentality might cross
the minds of some writers, whichmight contribute to that
intimidation that you're talkingabout, similar to theater,
especially those who havelistened to the catalog of early
, early recordings with all thegreats, and they compare
(17:00):
everything to these recordingsand it's like the knowing can
interpret these pieces anydifferently.
And I find that, as someonejust craving identity, I find
that frustrating when I hear aperformance that is mimicking a
performance of the past inclassical music that seems to be
(17:22):
very, very prominent.
But it is so refreshing when Ihear someone just being
themselves on the stage.
This is not to say that, thatarts writers need to listen to
the whole catalog and all thesethings.
I would like them to just go inwith this blank slate, but I
can see them thinking oh well,but what about all these people
(17:45):
who are reading all these booksand telling me that actually,
messiah has to go this waybecause it's always that way,
that it doesn't always have tobe that way?
Michael Zarathus-Cook (17:56):
And even if it has to be that way, I
think what's worth rememberingis that that's not necessarily
the population that you'rewriting for.
As an editor, you the survivalof your publication relies on
having as broad a base ofsubscribers as possible.
So, by definition, a lot of thepeople who are subscribed are
(18:18):
on the peripheral when it comesto the depth of their knowledge,
but they want to learn moreabout opera.
So being written to from theperspective of a PhD in Baroque
voice might not actually behelping.
It helps to have that PhD, butit might not help with
connecting with the largestcohort of your readership, which
(18:38):
are just people who you know.
They see Carmen once a year orthey go to the COC when they
can't afford to, or fill in theblank.
They're not as core as some ofthese purists that you're
describing.
Nevertheless, they are thegreat middle that we have to
cater to in order to be a viablebusiness, and having writers
(19:01):
who are comfortable catering tothat great middle can often,
maybe once in a while, tape yourhat to the person in the back
of the hall who has written abook on how I don't know Peter
Grimes should be staged, orwhatever.
It's good to tip your hat offto people like that with details
.
That's specifically for them.
But I try to caution writersthat again, you're writing for
(19:22):
people who they've notnecessarily been pedigreed if
that's a word on this contentbut they would like to learn
more.
So be in their shoes and writefor them.
There's a conversation withRobert Harris, who was the
Toronto Star classical musicwriter for a long time, that I
(19:43):
had a couple of years ago.
That stuck with me.
I think that stuck with me, andI think he talked about his
first writing gig.
I might be butchering this, buthe talked about his first
writing gig being in Edmonton orsomething and he was covering a
performance of RachmaninoffNumber Two, concerto Number Two,
(20:03):
and it was his first time everhearing it and he was writing a
review on it and it was thatreview that he wrote.
That kind of started everythingfor him.
That story is interestingbecause it's a flip side of this
intimidation that sometimeswhat gives you your shot or what
makes you interesting or whatmakes you readable, is how
(20:26):
slightly green you are and justhow honest about the experience
you are.
And the more, the longer youspend in a specific lane as a
writer, the more jaded and notgreen you become.
So on the writer's part, try towrite about as many different
things as possible is sort ofthe blanket advice, because the
more uncomfortable you are atwriting something or writing
(20:49):
about something, the moreobvious the points you're going
to make at least obvious to thebrass of the industry.
But sometimes it's that obviousthing that that great middle
needs to read in order toconnect with an art form.
Elizabeth Bowman (21:03):
One thing that I think is key to performing
arts journalism is that you'renot alone.
You're at a show where allthese people are experiencing
what you're experiencing.
So as an art journalist, youcan go around and ask people
questions.
(21:24):
You know about theirexperiences and what happened to
them during that performance.
And I think that's really coolbecause even if you disagree
with that perspective of whoever, or you agree with the
perspective of three people andnot with the perspective of the
other three, that you can eveninclude that in your coverage.
(21:47):
You can say, oh, but this guythought this and I felt this.
I think that we should beencouraging people to talk more
with the people around them aswell and not just have this sort
of one dimensional opinion inthese reviews.
I love my Opera Canadareviewers, but I definitely
(22:09):
would encourage some morediscussion with the people
around them, because a lot ofpeople around them are saying
how it is for them.
You know, with no expectationof where that might go.
So it will be honest and, likeyou say, be honest or the
honesty pirate.
(22:30):
My motto is honesty resonates.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (22:33):
That's a great motto, you know.
You say that you're not aloneas an arts writer, but
oftentimes in terms of being inthe hall that you're sharing
with other people.
But there's a flip side to that, or a larger aspect to that,
which is it does feel a lot likeyou are alone because there
isn't, sometimes even at thelevel of like your town or your
(22:54):
city, there isn't a network ofother writers that you can share
ideas with or feel like you'repart of a community and, unless
the case, a national network ofwriters, which I think brings us
to what the summer is going tobe about at BAMF that yes, we're
there to create opera, createnew opera, form for performers,
(23:15):
especially opera creators, toform their network with other
creatives.
But I'm really excited aboutcoming on board for this as an
opportunity to also form anetwork of a national network of
arts writers, so that whateveryou're doing in St John's or
(23:35):
Vancouver, here in Toronto smallsuburbs around you know
southern Ontario you don't feellike you're this sort of
isolated atom spinning in yourown orbit without any sort of
resonance with what's happeningacross the country, because
often, especially at thenational level, granting bodies
think in terms of the nationalscale, but that's not reflected.
(23:58):
When it comes to writing andyou know I talked earlier about,
yes, better fundingspecifically for writers would
be very helpful and support fromopera goers, classical music
goers, just the arts crowd,would also help these writers
specifically.
There are more and moreplatforms to do that.
But another aspect of that isthe support that organizations
(24:18):
can provide.
One of the things that the wayyou've described and I think
people, listeners, need to knowthat, lizzie, was you that
suggested this program.
We talked about this, so maybeyou can go over how it started,
because I think that part's alsoincredibly important.
But as you were describing itbefore, as we're chatting, it
reminded me of the emerging artscritics program that I was a
part of here in Toronto.
(24:39):
That was jointly held by theToronto Symphony this was six
years ago now, or just over fiveand a half years ago the
Toronto Symphony, opera Canadaand National Ballet and they got
us together to write for sorryCanadian Opera Company and the
National Ballet and they got usall together to write for Opera
Canada, the whole note and thedance current.
(25:01):
Now, like so many things on thearts, the pandemic cut the cord
on that and I had a conversation, great conversation with Hope
Muir, the artistic director ofthe National Ballet, recently,
and we talked about that, whichis hey, what are your plans to
bring this thing back?
It's the same thing if a treehas fallen no one's hearing
(25:21):
about it.
You're doing all this greatwork, but there's about five
people who are writing about it.
Not as many as you think arehearing about this great work
that you're doing.
So I think there's a plan tobring that back, at least within
Toronto.
So I see this program at BAMPas a corollary, a national
corollary to what's happeninghere in Ontario.
So maybe you could talk aboutwhat happened over the last year
(25:42):
.
That's bringing us to this Juneon your end.
Elizabeth Bowman (25:46):
I had been thinking before I even got to
Banff about the fact that Ineeded its writers.
Well, specifically for me,opera coverage writers, people
for features, people for reviewsand more.
I was looking at Joel's programand I thought, wow, wouldn't it
(26:06):
be great if it was contained inthis program, because it gives
writers an opportunity to coversomething with the artists there
, the performing artists rightthere, so they see how the
production comes together, howthe rehearsals are going, what's
(26:30):
happening after rehearsal.
They really live the experienceof putting on the show, and I
think that that would allow awriter to have maybe a different
line of questioning, because wedo have a lot of repeated
questions that happen in artwriting, which makes it stale
(26:51):
sometimes it can be.
So my hope is is that, withwriters being part of the
experience, that we can sort ofinnovate the way to cover it and
also go beyond writing tobehind the scenes footage.
How do we cover these thingswith the tools that we have in
(27:12):
2024?
How do we use things likeTikTok, how do we use things
like Instagram to the maximumcapacity?
What are relevant questions?
To ask an artist, why is itrelevant, and to find out what
fresh angles can we have andsome of those things, some of
(27:34):
the answers to these questionsmight not come from you or me.
It might just come from sittingin a circle with these writers
in a place like BAMF and havinga discussion with people of
different perspectives and thencoming up with exciting new ways
to cover performing arts.
And that is what really drivesme is just continuing to talk
(28:00):
about it with different peopleand exploring these things, and
so BAMF is a perfect place to dothat, and I'm hoping that the
program will expand, because Iknow we're not gonna have a huge
amount of spots for artswriters, so it's gonna be quite
competitive.
But I wanna encourage everyarts writer to apply because we
(28:22):
really wanna know where everyoneis and what they can contribute
.
And if it doesn't work out forthis program, there might be
other opportunities because,well, Opera Canada covers
everything across Canada, so weneed writers everywhere.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (28:40):
And I'll second that by saying canopy as
well.
The covert mission of thisapplication process is, first of
all, we'd love to have you atBAMF.
So please, please, please, doapply.
But it would be fantastic towalk out of this process with a
national registry of artswriters that maybe BAMF can host
(29:04):
, or maybe we have a third partyhost it to a certain degree, or
even Opera Canada host it.
But how do we formalize aregistry, just a place where you
know, as a writer, I can put myname and I'll be able to get a
gig to a certain degreesomewhere covering the arts at
large?
I think we're long overdue forthat and I think, as an editor,
(29:26):
I feel your sense of there'ssomething missing.
Right, you have to do so muchwork to secure all the other
resources for coverage and thenyou get to the finish line and
you feel like, oh wait, I haveno one.
I actually don't have anyone tocover this in the time that I
was hoping, or at least to thelevel that I was hoping.
So it'd be great to make thisprocess of getting in touch with
(29:51):
writers, creating a network ofwriters, writers talking to each
other, sharing ideas with eachother, because if you're excited
about the project, whether ornot you like the project, but
you're excited about talkingabout the project, the things
you don't like about aparticular production.
Everyone else downstream ofthat gets excited about it, and
I think one thing I'll addbecause there's a question I
(30:11):
actually have for you is onething I'll add more on this end
is yes, we need to learn how touse TikTok, how to use Instagram
better.
Right, we have to be a 2024, wehave to meet 2024 as way of
connecting with readers.
But there's also a gap here forbringing things back down to
earth a bit.
(30:31):
Not everything is perfectlycompatible with TikTok or with
social media and creating a clipfor the algorithm.
I think what the arts go inpublic is also looking for is
how do I meet people in reallife, like, how do I actually
form face-to-face connections?
That's not happening on socialmedia, et cetera.
And I think arts writers can bea fantastic facilitator for
(30:55):
that, because if organizationsare doing it, it's very clear
that they're just asking you tobuy tickets, come and leave.
But if you have someone whosevoice you trust in the art space
and they're telling you that no, this is the place you wanna be
, this is a good way to spendyour Friday night.
It's the.
We hold the keys to the thirdplace.
That's how I like to think ofit, that it's not these
(31:15):
organizations.
The organizations create thethird place and they create a
place where we can gather.
But how do you siphon peopleinto a gathering space?
How do you encourage people tocome to a gathering space?
I think we, as arts writers andarts editors, can be a great
conduit to getting peopleoffline frankly and getting
people face-to-face in a worldwhere isolation and all the
(31:36):
other things is an epidemic.
Elizabeth Bowman (31:40):
Definitely I would agree with that.
I guess using the social mediais a necessary evil in terms of
connecting people in real lifeas it stands now, and how do you
do that in a way that to sellsomeone something in an honest
way?
I also would like to say thatI'm hoping at the program that
(32:05):
we can talk about podcasting,because I think that podcasting
is a really powerful toolbecause it's long form interview
process that allows you toreally get to know your host as
well as the guests that you'rebringing on and how one might
(32:26):
plan such a thing.
I think a lot of artists areintimidated by how do I start,
what do I do, and actually a lotof artists performing artists
would be great as podcastingbecause they're natural
performers.
So I'm hoping that we'll touchon that in Banff and obviously,
(32:48):
as we approach closer to theprogram, that will solidify the
tools that we will be using inthat.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (32:56):
Yeah and yeah.
I think one of the takeawaysfrom this is that this program
is a work in progress in termsof the things that it will
eventually expand.
I think the mission, this ideaof a network, of a national
network of writers, is onethat's quite laudable and very
sort of crystal clear to you andI and certainly I look forward
(33:17):
to working with you toarticulate that.
Going to the future, and on topof that, yes, we would love
suggestions from writers coastto coast, even if it's just
venting on.
I used to be able to make aliving doing this Like how can
we get back to that?
How can we get back to thesubscription model that works
for writers and editors andpublications in general?
(33:37):
I think is an importantquestion.
Speaking of social media, Imentioned that, one of the
things that you posted onInstagram recently.
You're a runner, I'm a runneras well, so maybe that's another
podcast conversation in thefuture, but you talked about
your publication being more thana publication, being a
non-for-profit support system.
I was curious what you meant bythat.
(33:59):
Maybe you could talk a bit moreabout that concept and how it
dovetails into this network thatwe've been talking about.
Elizabeth Bowman (34:08):
Some people view Opera Canada as a magazine
that they read and that's theend of it.
But Canadian opera artists areall over the world being
incredible ambassadors forCanada and for the art form in
general, and I feel like my roleas editor-in-chief of Opera
(34:32):
Canada is to make sure the worldknows about these amazing
creative people and what they'redoing.
So I would like to think thatthe magazine is far beyond just
a magazine, but also, of course,we have events.
(34:53):
We just did the rubies at theFour Seasons Center, and the
rubies is a celebration of thegreat works of major players in
this industry.
We just celebrated IsabelBarracdarian, Wayne Vogan, who
was the Canadian Opera Company'slibrarian for a really long
(35:15):
time and really touched theindustry, and Gino Quilico, also
Baritone.
Then also we had a ChangemakerAward that went to Michael Mori
and Jamie Martino of TapestryOpera and all the amazing work
that they're doing, especiallyfor representing women in the
(35:38):
performing arts.
So through these events andthrough the spotlight that we
put on them, I like to thinkthat it's just more than a
magazine, especially right now,with very limited support from
the media or opera coverage.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (35:55):
Likewise that's what I want to do with
Canopy as well that this oldidea of it's just this thing
that you get in your inbox, orit's just this magazine that you
have in your hands and itdoesn't really connect you to a
community at large.
It just doesn't work anymore.
So whenever I see anyone outthere trying to make a
publication more of a home thana house, more of a gathering
(36:17):
space than something that's justone directional in terms of you
read what other people havewritten and that's the end of
the story, I find that really,really encouraging.
So I look forward to seeingwhat Opera Canada does in that
track coming going forward.
But that's the energy and spiritthat I'm bringing to Banff this
(36:37):
June is how can we build afamily of writers from this
experience?
How can we walk away with agood old Rolodex of people's
name and where they live andtheir interests in terms of
coverage?
So, lizzie, good on you forsuggesting this.
I think it's going to be.
(36:59):
You know we're going to lookback on this and see how did we
go so long without a projectlike this?
So I'm happy to be a part of itfrom the outset.
Do you have at the top of yourmind how people can actually
sign up for this program.
We can add that at the very end.
Elizabeth Bowman (37:13):
We'll add a link below, and the deadline for
application is January 31st, soit's really a fast approaching.
So we hope that you'll reachout and if you happen to watch
this after the deadline, I hopethat you'll also reach out
because really we mean it whenwe're talking about the Rolodex
(37:35):
that we're pursuing here.
I want to add that before wehad this conversation on the
podcast, we were talking aboutthe idea of expanding the
opportunities for the writersand hopefully reaching out to
other publications across Canadaand seeing if they might be
interested in having someconnection with this program in
(37:59):
some way informally, formally,but we are really invested in
partnerships and seeing wherethis program could lead.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (38:09):
That's brilliant.
Yeah, that would be fantasticif you know, because that's what
happened with the emerging artscritics program, where an
institution was connecting uswith a publication right, in
this case, Banff being theinstitution, opera Canada and
Canopy being the publications.
But if we can expand that listsignificantly so that these
writers, through this program,are able to write creatively,
(38:32):
intelligently and emotionallyabout the art that they love in
a sort of structured way, thatwould be filling a much, much
needed gap in content of thissort.
So I feel like it's in goodhands, lizzie, between you and I
, to make something work here.
Elizabeth Bowman (38:47):
Thank you for being on the podcast.
So glad that we were able totalk about the program, even if
it's so close to deadline.
But I'm glad we made it workand I'll look forward to working
with you on this.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (38:59):
Thanks for having me, Lizzie.
Hi, my name is Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Opera Glasses podcast.
Today I have Michael Ar Cookwith me.
He is the managing editor ofthe Toronto Symphony Orchestra,
also the chief editor of CanopyMagazine.
He and I will be running theEmerging Arts Writer Program,
part of Joel Ivany's ChamberMusic and Opera Interplay
(00:25):
Program at the Banff Centre thissummer.
The deadline to apply isJanuary 31st and we would like
to encourage all emerging artswriters to apply, so let's bring
Michael in and talk more aboutthis exciting new program.
Michael, welcome to the OperaGlasses podcast.
Thanks so much for being here.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (00:45):
Thank you for having me, Lizzie.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:47):
I read a little bit about you.
Of course, you're a writer, anarts critic, a home cook.
You have strong interests infilm, music and basketball.
Can you just tell me a littlebit about your professional
background?
Michael Zarathus-Coo (01:03):
Absolutely , I'm going to leave the
basketball out of it, otherwise,we're going to be here for
several hours.
I don't know how much timeyou've put aside for this, but,
yes, basketball is the love ofmy life.
It's what keeps me goingthrough the grind of the week.
But professionally, yes, I'm awriter editor based here in
Toronto.
I work for the Toronto Symphony.
(01:23):
I'm their managing editor, butI also run a magazine called
Canopy.
Formerly it was called SmartMagazine.
That I started in 2020, justright at the cusp of the
pandemic.
We're under a new name now, butthe concept of the magazine is
a visual and performing artspublication.
It is under the auspices ofthis magazine that I will be
(01:45):
joining you, lizzie.
I'd bamp this summer to talkabout opera, to talk to opera
singers and makers and,crucially, to also meet some
arts writers.
So very much looking forward tothis collaboration with you.
Thanks again for inviting me tothis chat.
Elizabeth Bowman (02:03):
Yeah, I'm really excited that you'll be
coming to BAMF.
It was my first time last yearin Joel Ivany's opera program
there and I just it wastransformative.
Last year I taught PR andmarketing to the individual
artists and as editor-in-chiefof Opera Canada, I've had a
(02:26):
tough time finding arts writersacross Canada and I thought that
a program such as the one thatis happening in BAMF would be
the perfect place to haveemerging arts writers also to
find people across Canada andreally diversify perspective in
(02:48):
arts journalism in Canada and ingeneral in North America really
.
So I'm really excited that thisprogram is including this for
the first time and also so greatthat you will be sharing in
that education with me.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (03:05):
Awesome and I know we're here to talk
about the arts writing part forthe most part, but the PR work
that you did last year I hopeit's also it remains part of my
job at the symphony is I read alot of artist bios.
You know a lot of these sort oftouring artists come through
the symphony here and I see thatas just one of those places
(03:25):
that artists could do a muchbetter job of selling who they
are.
I find a lot of these artistsbio here's the person and then
it's a giant sort of word saladof everywhere that they've been,
that they're going to be, andit's just you lose people's
attention span in that process.
So if one of the many beautifulthings that can come out of
this program going forward isartists know how to write a
(03:49):
killer 400 word bio that getspeople who've never heard of
them excited about who they areand people who are familiar with
them excited about what they'regoing to do next, I think
that's an incredible service byyou, lizzie, so kudos to you.
Elizabeth Bowman (04:06):
Yeah, I think that the artist bio has always
been a big question mark for forartists.
I mean, some of them are afraidto say too much, but I think in
2024, we can all agree thatwe're open to hearing more in
these bios.
We're open to interestingwriting styles, we're open to
(04:29):
really getting to the core ofwho that human is.
We're open to to connectingwith human, human to human
connection in the bio and not,like you say, the sort of
bibliography.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (04:43):
Yeah, that's a good way to put it, and
I end also like right toreflect the fact that you're an
artist, right?
So if I'm putting together aprogram book, the bio is taking
up a page.
Gets guess what else is alsotaking up a page?
It's the program notes, whichare very artistically.
So you're taking up as muchspace as the other artistic
content in a program book orprogram notes, etc.
(05:05):
So I think, showing off yourartistic instincts and writing,
maybe get one of the artswriters that we're going to be
coaching this June, get one ofthem to write your bio and see
what their artisticinterpretation of your work is.
So I think there's it's veryfertile ground.
The artist bio is very fertileground, especially in opera, for
(05:26):
personality and showing offyour personality.
But that's not what we're hereto talk about, Lizzie, for the
most part, but I'm very muchlooking forward to that
component of it come June.
Elizabeth Bowman (05:37):
Why don't we, why don't we dig into arts
journalism in North America?
Yes because you know, from my,from my career perspective,
having started a PR business in2010, when there were full time
arts journalists working, andthen seeing that change so
(06:02):
drastically in the in my 11years doing my business, to
having barely any full time artsjournalists in 2021, when I
when I closed out my businessand moved on, people might
wonder why are we doing thisprogram if there are no full
time jobs?
But there is absolutely roomFor business in this area.
(06:27):
It's just different.
We've changed how wecommunicate arts coverage and I
think that obviously, newspapersand magazines should continue
to have people who are who arehired full-time, but even if
they don't, there is, there'sdefinitely room for this
coverage.
People have an interest in theattention span for it.
(06:48):
So I guess we're there to showinnovative ways to cover and to
move forward.
Would you agree?
Michael Zarathus-Cook (06:57):
I would more than agree, and early you
said let's dig into artscoverage in North America.
Digging in is a bit toogenerous a way to put it,
because there's very little ofit left to dig into.
You'd have to take a scalpel towhat's left, and certainly I'm
preaching to the choir herebecause we were talking just
before I started recording.
Here you have a decade longcase study of where this
(07:19):
industry was 10 years ago versuswhere it is now.
And Even just 10 years ago youcould make a living writing for
fill in the blank NationalMagazine Right, even just a
classical music editor orclassical music writer story or
an opera writer.
Now you have the sort of vague,nebulous arts writer term which
(07:42):
I actually want to embrace, andI'll get to that in a second.
But this idea of Visualizing inan art form is completely gone
out out the window and I'm surewe'll get to solution or we'll
describe the problem at lengthhere.
But maybe we could start a bitwith the solution.
And it always, always startswith better funding.
It right, it Always startsthere.
(08:03):
I wish there was a fancier wayto put it.
I wish there was like a, anindustry lever that you could
pull.
That would fix this.
But if, if funding isn'tsupporting arts writing
specifically as well assupporting everything else that
we're writing about, I don'tthink specific publications are
gonna be able to fill in the gap.
I don't think, you know,editors with as good intentions
(08:24):
as yourself are gonna be able tofill in the gap.
Even In concert with theefforts of other editors and
certainly the writers alone,they're not gonna be able to do
or impact the change that needsto happen.
So, intentional action from thepowers that be with the money
that they have, saying Not onlydo we need to support opera,
classical music, dance, etc.
(08:45):
But the people who write aboutit.
Right, because it's the.
It's the same old thing that ifthe tree falls and no one hears
it, then is it falling?
Blah, blah, blah.
But it's the same concept that,yes, we're.
If you're gonna fund New opera,you're gonna fund grassroots
Canadian composers and so on, ifyou're doing all of that but no
one's hearing about it, or atleast it's not being discussed
(09:06):
in a way that's compelling forthe average Listener or the
average arts patron, then it'salmost as if the money that
you're spending there it's notbeing used as effectively as
possible.
So we need more town criers.
We need more people at alllevels of arts journalism to
talk about the great work that'sthat's happening.
There are other levels to that.
(09:27):
They know.
There's what specificpublications, such as yours in
mind, can can do.
There's also what the writersthemselves can do, and that part
I'm sure we'll get to, orthere's certainly more to talk
about there.
And then, lastly, there's whatthe readers, the audience
members how can you support thework that these writers are
doing?
Because there's a lot that'sbeen lost since, you know, 2010,
(09:47):
when you started, but a fewthings have been gained
platforms like sub stack medium,where you can actually support
specific writers and supporttheir view and support their
writing style in a way thatOffsets, to a certain degree,
the livelihood that they used tohave access to.
So, yes, those are, believe itor not.
That is my abbreviated opinionon on this subject, so I think
(10:11):
I'll pause there.
Just I want to hear what youthink about.
First of all, I want to hearwhat the last ten years, what
that span of time, what you'veseen in that period in terms of
losing Artswriters in Canada andperhaps in the States.
Elizabeth Bowman (10:24):
Well, I can touch on that.
But one thing that I wasthinking of as you were talking
about how sort of writing forone art form is Not going to be
the future, that that we need tosort of diversify what we're
writing about, even beyond theperforming arts.
And some of the most successfulStories that I had during my PR
(10:46):
time was when I cross pitchedto another section of the
newspaper and had had themtelling the story of this
person's career, but through thelens of a completely different
audience.
Like I had one of my clients ina cycling magazine and it
(11:07):
didn't take.
It didn't diminish anythingFrom from the clients work, but
it was interesting to know thatthat client Commuted to her job
as an opera singer with thisbicycle.
It gave a greater layer to whatshe was doing.
And another thing that I find inin arts journalism Is that
(11:29):
oftentimes journalists areintimidated to write about
classical music.
They don't want to make amistake and I think that that's
something that we need to towash away Because it's not so
intimidating.
Of course, that's easy for meto say or for you to say with
your background and knowledgeand your current position, but I
(11:50):
would like to encourage morepeople to speak what they feel
when, when they go to a show andsay what, what happened in In
terms of their perspective andwhat, what did they enjoy?
Why did they enjoy it?
That's that's really thequestion we're asking right when
we're talking about coveringfor performing arts, and that's
really the perspective thatwe're after.
(12:12):
That's how we're gonnadiversify.
Is that we make it less Verybrilliantly, brilliantly well
said, lizzie.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (12:20):
I have so much to say about that and I'll
try to again abbreviate mythoughts on this.
But this sort of issue ofPeople sort of staying
quote-unquote in their lane whenit comes to arts writing, there
are various barriers to thatand I actually think
Publications on the job thateditors do has a huge part to
play in that, because a lot ofpublications are designed,
especially the performing arts,to cannibalize their audiences
(12:44):
in various ways.
The first is you know, if youare a reader of opera Canada or
the whole note or intermissionor the dance current, chances
are you're also a reader of anyother item on that list.
I just threw out part of theCross section that needs to
happen in terms of if I'm a, ifI'm a classical music writer,
(13:04):
I'm I also writing for opera oram I writing for dance etc.
Or theater is thesepublications, I think, could do
a better job of cross talkamongst each other.
There's nothing that stands inthe way of one like an opera
publication doing a partnershiptemporarily with a Classical
music publication and sharingtheir audiences to a certain
(13:25):
degree.
If you look at the people whoare reading you, there is no
such thing as just an operareader.
Right, because if you pullthese people, which I have
consistently, you will see thatthey also read Bok track, they
also read intermission.
They have diverse tastes, right, it's almost it's a minority of
people that only listen toopera or only listen to
(13:48):
classical music or only go tothe theater or only go to the
National Ballet.
More and more, especially theyounger generation, they have
this sort of Amnivorous appetitefor various art forms that I
think editors and andpublications at large need to
find a way to serve in a diverseway.
And I think that's actuallyyour.
Your mindset caters to that.
(14:11):
I think one of your recent postson social media was something
to the effect of Opera Canada ismore than a magazine.
It's a community of thinkers,of writers and creatives.
Certainly, that goes to it.
And then, in terms of you knowyou brought my background as an
example, which is certainly truethat yeah, it's easy for us,
you and I, to say writing aboutclassical music shouldn't be
intimidating.
(14:31):
I actually think it's probablyone of the easiest things to get
into if you're serious about it, and here's what I mean by that
If you're a quote, unquoteserious, creative writer, right,
you, you, you just want towrite and you know you have a
voice.
You know you have a view aboutthings that you see on stage or
in the orchestra pit or whathave you.
Classical music is a perfecttemplate to work out your, to
(14:55):
just exercise that muscle.
I actually I'm far moreintimidated to write about
theater, and I've spoken to mytheater friends about this.
I'm far more intimidated towrite about theater than I am
writing about classical music,because you have so many more
histories to contend with whenit comes to theater.
You've got the.
You know the script, the stageplay.
You've got all of the actors inthe past that contributed to
(15:19):
this specific character.
You've got the vision of thedirector on stage.
You've got the costume.
There are so many things thatyou have to know in order to
begin that conversation intheater, and I can almost hear
all the theater writers yellingat their screen saying that's
not the case, but bear with me.
On the other side, though, withclassical music, you still have
all of these characters in play, but once the conductor gets
(15:41):
started, it's just you in themusic, all it is.
It's you in the music and it'san orchestra trying to be true
to the music and also, obviously, trying to find their voice.
As a writer, that is as blank atemplate as you'll ever get
when it comes to the arts,because you go ahead.
Elizabeth Bowman (15:54):
Not to cut you off, but I find that many
purists would say, for instance,oh, we absolutely have to have
a soprano in this role.
We can't possibly have a mezzo,you know, in X role.
Or actually this is the way thecadenza has been done since you
(16:14):
know 1848.
And therefore you know it isthis way, and so, or we can't
trill on, we can't trill frombelow, because it's this year
that it was written.
You know, there are so many ofthese rules in classical,
baroque, early music, thesetypes of things, not to say that
(16:37):
these rules are not to beapplied.
I'm just saying that I thinkthis same mentality might cross
the minds of some writers, whichmight contribute to that
intimidation that you're talkingabout, similar to theater,
especially those who havelistened to the catalog of early
, early recordings with all thegreats, and they compare
(17:00):
everything to these recordingsand it's like the knowing can
interpret these pieces anydifferently.
And I find that, as someonejust craving identity, I find
that frustrating when I hear aperformance that is mimicking a
performance of the past inclassical music that seems to be
(17:22):
very, very prominent.
But it is so refreshing when Ihear someone just being
themselves on the stage.
This is not to say that, thatarts writers need to listen to
the whole catalog and all thesethings.
I would like them to just go inwith this blank slate, but I
can see them thinking oh well,but what about all these people
(17:45):
who are reading all these booksand telling me that actually,
messiah has to go this waybecause it's always that way,
that it doesn't always have tobe that way?
Michael Zarathus-Cook (17:56):
And even if it has to be that way, I
think what's worth rememberingis that that's not necessarily
the population that you'rewriting for.
As an editor, you the survivalof your publication relies on
having as broad a base ofsubscribers as possible.
So, by definition, a lot of thepeople who are subscribed are
(18:18):
on the peripheral when it comesto the depth of their knowledge,
but they want to learn moreabout opera.
So being written to from theperspective of a PhD in Baroque
voice might not actually behelping.
It helps to have that PhD, butit might not help with
connecting with the largestcohort of your readership, which
(18:38):
are just people who you know.
They see Carmen once a year orthey go to the COC when they
can't afford to, or fill in theblank.
They're not as core as some ofthese purists that you're
describing.
Nevertheless, they are thegreat middle that we have to
cater to in order to be a viablebusiness, and having writers
(19:01):
who are comfortable catering tothat great middle can often,
maybe once in a while, tape yourhat to the person in the back
of the hall who has written abook on how I don't know Peter
Grimes should be staged, orwhatever.
It's good to tip your hat offto people like that with details
.
That's specifically for them.
But I try to caution writersthat again, you're writing for
(19:22):
people who they've notnecessarily been pedigreed if
that's a word on this contentbut they would like to learn
more.
So be in their shoes and writefor them.
There's a conversation withRobert Harris, who was the
Toronto Star classical musicwriter for a long time, that I
(19:43):
had a couple of years ago.
That stuck with me.
I think that stuck with me, andI think he talked about his
first writing gig.
I might be butchering this, buthe talked about his first
writing gig being in Edmonton orsomething and he was covering a
performance of RachmaninoffNumber Two, concerto Number Two,
(20:03):
and it was his first time everhearing it and he was writing a
review on it and it was thatreview that he wrote.
That kind of started everythingfor him.
That story is interestingbecause it's a flip side of this
intimidation that sometimeswhat gives you your shot or what
makes you interesting or whatmakes you readable, is how
(20:26):
slightly green you are and justhow honest about the experience
you are.
And the more, the longer youspend in a specific lane as a
writer, the more jaded and notgreen you become.
So on the writer's part, try towrite about as many different
things as possible is sort ofthe blanket advice, because the
more uncomfortable you are atwriting something or writing
(20:49):
about something, the moreobvious the points you're going
to make at least obvious to thebrass of the industry.
But sometimes it's that obviousthing that that great middle
needs to read in order toconnect with an art form.
Elizabeth Bowman (21:03):
One thing that I think is key to performing
arts journalism is that you'renot alone.
You're at a show where allthese people are experiencing
what you're experiencing.
So as an art journalist, youcan go around and ask people
questions.
(21:24):
You know about theirexperiences and what happened to
them during that performance.
And I think that's really coolbecause even if you disagree
with that perspective of whoever, or you agree with the
perspective of three people andnot with the perspective of the
other three, that you can eveninclude that in your coverage.
(21:47):
You can say, oh, but this guythought this and I felt this.
I think that we should beencouraging people to talk more
with the people around them aswell and not just have this sort
of one dimensional opinion inthese reviews.
I love my Opera Canadareviewers, but I definitely
(22:09):
would encourage some morediscussion with the people
around them, because a lot ofpeople around them are saying
how it is for them.
You know, with no expectationof where that might go.
So it will be honest and, likeyou say, be honest or the
honesty pirate.
(22:30):
My motto is honesty resonates.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (22:33):
That's a great motto, you know.
You say that you're not aloneas an arts writer, but
oftentimes in terms of being inthe hall that you're sharing
with other people.
But there's a flip side to that, or a larger aspect to that,
which is it does feel a lot likeyou are alone because there
isn't, sometimes even at thelevel of like your town or your
(22:54):
city, there isn't a network ofother writers that you can share
ideas with or feel like you'repart of a community and, unless
the case, a national network ofwriters, which I think brings us
to what the summer is going tobe about at BAMF that yes, we're
there to create opera, createnew opera, form for performers,
(23:15):
especially opera creators, toform their network with other
creatives.
But I'm really excited aboutcoming on board for this as an
opportunity to also form anetwork of a national network of
arts writers, so that whateveryou're doing in St John's or
(23:35):
Vancouver, here in Toronto smallsuburbs around you know
southern Ontario you don't feellike you're this sort of
isolated atom spinning in yourown orbit without any sort of
resonance with what's happeningacross the country, because
often, especially at thenational level, granting bodies
think in terms of the nationalscale, but that's not reflected.
(23:58):
When it comes to writing andyou know I talked earlier about,
yes, better fundingspecifically for writers would
be very helpful and support fromopera goers, classical music
goers, just the arts crowd,would also help these writers
specifically.
There are more and moreplatforms to do that.
But another aspect of that isthe support that organizations
(24:18):
can provide.
One of the things that the wayyou've described and I think
people, listeners, need to knowthat, lizzie, was you that
suggested this program.
We talked about this, so maybeyou can go over how it started,
because I think that part's alsoincredibly important.
But as you were describing itbefore, as we're chatting, it
reminded me of the emerging artscritics program that I was a
part of here in Toronto.
(24:39):
That was jointly held by theToronto Symphony this was six
years ago now, or just over fiveand a half years ago the
Toronto Symphony, opera Canadaand National Ballet and they got
us together to write for sorryCanadian Opera Company and the
National Ballet and they got usall together to write for Opera
Canada, the whole note and thedance current.
(25:01):
Now, like so many things on thearts, the pandemic cut the cord
on that and I had a conversation, great conversation with Hope
Muir, the artistic director ofthe National Ballet, recently,
and we talked about that, whichis hey, what are your plans to
bring this thing back?
It's the same thing if a treehas fallen no one's hearing
(25:21):
about it.
You're doing all this greatwork, but there's about five
people who are writing about it.
Not as many as you think arehearing about this great work
that you're doing.
So I think there's a plan tobring that back, at least within
Toronto.
So I see this program at BAMPas a corollary, a national
corollary to what's happeninghere in Ontario.
So maybe you could talk aboutwhat happened over the last year
(25:42):
.
That's bringing us to this Juneon your end.
Elizabeth Bowman (25:46):
I had been thinking before I even got to
Banff about the fact that Ineeded its writers.
Well, specifically for me,opera coverage writers, people
for features, people for reviewsand more.
I was looking at Joel's programand I thought, wow, wouldn't it
(26:06):
be great if it was contained inthis program, because it gives
writers an opportunity to coversomething with the artists there
, the performing artists rightthere, so they see how the
production comes together, howthe rehearsals are going, what's
(26:30):
happening after rehearsal.
They really live the experienceof putting on the show, and I
think that that would allow awriter to have maybe a different
line of questioning, because wedo have a lot of repeated
questions that happen in artwriting, which makes it stale
(26:51):
sometimes it can be.
So my hope is is that, withwriters being part of the
experience, that we can sort ofinnovate the way to cover it and
also go beyond writing tobehind the scenes footage.
How do we cover these thingswith the tools that we have in
(27:12):
2024?
How do we use things likeTikTok, how do we use things
like Instagram to the maximumcapacity?
What are relevant questions?
To ask an artist, why is itrelevant, and to find out what
fresh angles can we have andsome of those things, some of
(27:34):
the answers to these questionsmight not come from you or me.
It might just come from sittingin a circle with these writers
in a place like BAMF and havinga discussion with people of
different perspectives and thencoming up with exciting new ways
to cover performing arts.
And that is what really drivesme is just continuing to talk
(28:00):
about it with different peopleand exploring these things, and
so BAMF is a perfect place to dothat, and I'm hoping that the
program will expand, because Iknow we're not gonna have a huge
amount of spots for artswriters, so it's gonna be quite
competitive.
But I wanna encourage everyarts writer to apply because we
(28:22):
really wanna know where everyoneis and what they can contribute
.
And if it doesn't work out forthis program, there might be
other opportunities because,well, Opera Canada covers
everything across Canada, so weneed writers everywhere.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (28:40):
And I'll second that by saying canopy as
well.
The covert mission of thisapplication process is, first of
all, we'd love to have you atBAMF.
So please, please, please, doapply.
But it would be fantastic towalk out of this process with a
national registry of artswriters that maybe BAMF can host
(29:04):
, or maybe we have a third partyhost it to a certain degree, or
even Opera Canada host it.
But how do we formalize aregistry, just a place where you
know, as a writer, I can put myname and I'll be able to get a
gig to a certain degreesomewhere covering the arts at
large?
I think we're long overdue forthat and I think, as an editor,
(29:26):
I feel your sense of there'ssomething missing.
Right, you have to do so muchwork to secure all the other
resources for coverage and thenyou get to the finish line and
you feel like, oh wait, I haveno one.
I actually don't have anyone tocover this in the time that I
was hoping, or at least to thelevel that I was hoping.
So it'd be great to make thisprocess of getting in touch with
(29:51):
writers, creating a network ofwriters, writers talking to each
other, sharing ideas with eachother, because if you're excited
about the project, whether ornot you like the project, but
you're excited about talkingabout the project, the things
you don't like about aparticular production.
Everyone else downstream ofthat gets excited about it, and
I think one thing I'll addbecause there's a question I
(30:11):
actually have for you is onething I'll add more on this end
is yes, we need to learn how touse TikTok, how to use Instagram
better.
Right, we have to be a 2024, wehave to meet 2024 as way of
connecting with readers.
But there's also a gap here forbringing things back down to
earth a bit.
(30:31):
Not everything is perfectlycompatible with TikTok or with
social media and creating a clipfor the algorithm.
I think what the arts go inpublic is also looking for is
how do I meet people in reallife, like, how do I actually
form face-to-face connections?
That's not happening on socialmedia, et cetera.
And I think arts writers can bea fantastic facilitator for
(30:55):
that, because if organizationsare doing it, it's very clear
that they're just asking you tobuy tickets, come and leave.
But if you have someone whosevoice you trust in the art space
and they're telling you that no, this is the place you wanna be
, this is a good way to spendyour Friday night.
It's the.
We hold the keys to the thirdplace.
That's how I like to think ofit, that it's not these
(31:15):
organizations.
The organizations create thethird place and they create a
place where we can gather.
But how do you siphon peopleinto a gathering space?
How do you encourage people tocome to a gathering space?
I think we, as arts writers andarts editors, can be a great
conduit to getting peopleoffline frankly and getting
people face-to-face in a worldwhere isolation and all the
(31:36):
other things is an epidemic.
Elizabeth Bowman (31:40):
Definitely I would agree with that.
I guess using the social mediais a necessary evil in terms of
connecting people in real lifeas it stands now, and how do you
do that in a way that to sellsomeone something in an honest
way?
I also would like to say thatI'm hoping at the program that
(32:05):
we can talk about podcasting,because I think that podcasting
is a really powerful toolbecause it's long form interview
process that allows you toreally get to know your host as
well as the guests that you'rebringing on and how one might
(32:26):
plan such a thing.
I think a lot of artists areintimidated by how do I start,
what do I do, and actually a lotof artists performing artists
would be great as podcastingbecause they're natural
performers.
So I'm hoping that we'll touchon that in Banff and obviously,
(32:48):
as we approach closer to theprogram, that will solidify the
tools that we will be using inthat.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (32:56):
Yeah and yeah.
I think one of the takeawaysfrom this is that this program
is a work in progress in termsof the things that it will
eventually expand.
I think the mission, this ideaof a network, of a national
network of writers, is onethat's quite laudable and very
sort of crystal clear to you andI and certainly I look forward
(33:17):
to working with you toarticulate that.
Going to the future, and on topof that, yes, we would love
suggestions from writers coastto coast, even if it's just
venting on.
I used to be able to make aliving doing this Like how can
we get back to that?
How can we get back to thesubscription model that works
for writers and editors andpublications in general?
(33:37):
I think is an importantquestion.
Speaking of social media, Imentioned that, one of the
things that you posted onInstagram recently.
You're a runner, I'm a runneras well, so maybe that's another
podcast conversation in thefuture, but you talked about
your publication being more thana publication, being a
non-for-profit support system.
I was curious what you meant bythat.
(33:59):
Maybe you could talk a bit moreabout that concept and how it
dovetails into this network thatwe've been talking about.
Elizabeth Bowman (34:08):
Some people view Opera Canada as a magazine
that they read and that's theend of it.
But Canadian opera artists areall over the world being
incredible ambassadors forCanada and for the art form in
general, and I feel like my roleas editor-in-chief of Opera
(34:32):
Canada is to make sure the worldknows about these amazing
creative people and what they'redoing.
So I would like to think thatthe magazine is far beyond just
a magazine, but also, of course,we have events.
(34:53):
We just did the rubies at theFour Seasons Center, and the
rubies is a celebration of thegreat works of major players in
this industry.
We just celebrated IsabelBarracdarian, Wayne Vogan, who
was the Canadian Opera Company'slibrarian for a really long
(35:15):
time and really touched theindustry, and Gino Quilico, also
Baritone.
Then also we had a ChangemakerAward that went to Michael Mori
and Jamie Martino of TapestryOpera and all the amazing work
that they're doing, especiallyfor representing women in the
(35:38):
performing arts.
So through these events andthrough the spotlight that we
put on them, I like to thinkthat it's just more than a
magazine, especially right now,with very limited support from
the media or opera coverage.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (35:55):
Likewise that's what I want to do with
Canopy as well that this oldidea of it's just this thing
that you get in your inbox, orit's just this magazine that you
have in your hands and itdoesn't really connect you to a
community at large.
It just doesn't work anymore.
So whenever I see anyone outthere trying to make a
publication more of a home thana house, more of a gathering
(36:17):
space than something that's justone directional in terms of you
read what other people havewritten and that's the end of
the story, I find that really,really encouraging.
So I look forward to seeingwhat Opera Canada does in that
track coming going forward.
But that's the energy and spiritthat I'm bringing to Banff this
(36:37):
June is how can we build afamily of writers from this
experience?
How can we walk away with agood old Rolodex of people's
name and where they live andtheir interests in terms of
coverage?
So, lizzie, good on you forsuggesting this.
I think it's going to be.
(36:59):
You know we're going to lookback on this and see how did we
go so long without a projectlike this?
So I'm happy to be a part of itfrom the outset.
Do you have at the top of yourmind how people can actually
sign up for this program.
We can add that at the very end.
Elizabeth Bowman (37:13):
We'll add a link below, and the deadline for
application is January 31st, soit's really a fast approaching.
So we hope that you'll reachout and if you happen to watch
this after the deadline, I hopethat you'll also reach out
because really we mean it whenwe're talking about the Rolodex
(37:35):
that we're pursuing here.
I want to add that before wehad this conversation on the
podcast, we were talking aboutthe idea of expanding the
opportunities for the writersand hopefully reaching out to
other publications across Canadaand seeing if they might be
interested in having someconnection with this program in
(37:59):
some way informally, formally,but we are really invested in
partnerships and seeing wherethis program could lead.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (38:09):
That's brilliant.
Yeah, that would be fantasticif you know, because that's what
happened with the emerging artscritics program, where an
institution was connecting uswith a publication right, in
this case, Banff being theinstitution, opera Canada and
Canopy being the publications.
But if we can expand that listsignificantly so that these
writers, through this program,are able to write creatively,
(38:32):
intelligently and emotionallyabout the art that they love in
a sort of structured way, thatwould be filling a much, much
needed gap in content of thissort.
So I feel like it's in goodhands, lizzie, between you and I
, to make something work here.
Elizabeth Bowman (38:47):
Thank you for being on the podcast.
So glad that we were able totalk about the program, even if
it's so close to deadline.
But I'm glad we made it workand I'll look forward to working
with you on this.
Michael Zarathus-Cook (38:59):
Thanks for having me, Lizzie.
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