Episode Transcript
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JIM (00:04):
Welcome to The OrgHealth
Podcast
organizational health.
I'm Jim Brown.
MARGOT (00:10):
And I'm Margot Thompson.
We're consultants and coaches toleaders who are creating healthy
organizations.
JIM (00:15):
We talk about leading at
the executive level.
Not just the key points, thehighlights, we like to go
deeper.
MARGOT (00:22):
Under the surface.
We like to talk about what isn'tobvious.
JIM (00:26):
And maybe what isn't
comfortable.
MARGOT (00:28):
Right.
And we come at these things withvery different viewpoints—easy
because Jim and I are very, verydifferent from each other.
JIM (00:35):
That's true.
But the good news is we'veworked together long enough that
we see our differences asstrengths.
MARGOT (00:41):
In fact, they actually
allow us to create more health
in our team and the teams thatwe help.
And we're going to do some ofthat right now.
JIM (00:58):
Margot, we're going to talk
about meetings this week and in
fact, not just this week—fourweeks in a row we're going to
talk about meetings, becauseit's a really important topic
for leaders.
MARGOT (01:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's great because so manymeetings are just not well done.
They're uninspiring, they're noteffective.
We hear a lot of complaintsabout them.
JIM (01:19):
Yeah.
So we hear people say thingslike, well, we just hear about
what everyone else is doing.
Or it seems like we go over theall over the map.
MARGOT (01:28):
Yeah.
Bunny trails.
That's what they complain abouta lot.
JIM (01:31):
Yeah.
And often they wonder if, did weactually make any decisions?
MARGOT (01:36):
Yeah.
And really they just feel likeit's taken up their time for no
good reason.
They listen, they go back andstart their own work just as
they always would.
JIM (01:46):
Yeah.
And they wish that they didn'thave the distractions.
MARGOT (01:48):
Exactly.
JIM (01:49):
So we believe that a reason
for this is actually because
what happens is what we callmeeting stew, where every kind
of conversation that a teammight have seems to come up in a
team meeting.
And that's the reason that thesemeetings are not very effective.
If we could be more clear aboutwhat are we meeting for and what
(02:13):
does it need to look like, everymeeting for the team will be
better.
MARGOT (02:18):
Yes.
So we suggest that executiveteams start holding three types
of meetings to do three verydifferent things.
And we're going to talk aboutthose meetings over the next
several weeks.
JIM (02:29):
Right.
Let's foreshadow.
There are meetings that we calldaily standup meetings.
There are meetings that are theweekly tactical meetings and
then there are ad hoc, butcommonly on a monthly rhythm
strategic meetings.
And today we're going to talkabout strategic meetings.
MARGOT (02:49):
Okay.
So Jim, one of the most commonproblems that we have with team
meetings that we're seeing withour clients is that the big
topics arise, but there's notreally enough time to actually
look at them and address them.
So everybody would be a lotbetter off if those big topics
were saved and talked about instrategic meetings.
JIM (03:08):
Right.
So let's just presume thatthat's happening and we're gonna
walk through what a strategicmeeting could look like.
How does, how does a team makethat work so that they really
wrestle the big topics to theground, come up with a clear
conclusion and now as a teamthey can continue to move
forward and lead from that spot.
MARGOT (03:31):
The meetings end up
being, Oh, say once a month or
so.
And they typically take about 90minutes for a really good
conversation to happen.
JIM (03:40):
Right.
But it's common that that a teamwill say, well, why don't we
just set aside the morning andwe'll tackle a couple of
strategic topics.
So it could be two 90 minutesegments.
They just sit together throughthe, the two different topics.
MARGOT (03:54):
So let's talk about what
some of the topics that our
clients schedule for strategicmeetings.
JIM (03:59):
Sure.
So there are things like, wait,is this a market opportunity
that we should pursue?
That's an important question.
And it's not one that you canjust answer in 10 minutes.
MARGOT (04:10):
Or how are we handling
our growth?
Are we hiring temps fast or arewe taking a lot of time to find
the people who fit long- term toour culture?
JIM (04:18):
Yeah.
Not so long ago, one of ourclients in a mining setting,
worked through the difficultthing of safety records suddenly
going sour and he called anemergency strategic meeting so
that they could rethink how arethey going to address that?
That was a very strategicmeeting.
MARGOT (04:41):
Great example.
Another thing they talk about isacquisitions.
What kind of company thatthey're looking to acquire in
that sort of a situation.
JIM (04:49):
Yeah.
And, thinking of that, veryrecently we worked with a
company that had merged withanother company and they were
trying to figure out what nameshould we use?
Should it be this company orthat company should, or should
it be a totally new name for thetwo companies together?
MARGOT (05:06):
Yeah.
And in a lot of those situationsthey struggle with morale and
it's sort of plummeted.
So they're wondering what are wegoing to do about that?
How are we going to shiftmorale?
JIM (05:16):
Right.
So it turns out that thesetopics sometimes are very
strategic and overarching andsometimes they're much more
mundane that it's just like,well, we've got to solve this
little problem, but let's cometogether and figure it out.
Either way, it's not a smalltopic and not a small
conversation.
We need to tackle these well.
(05:39):
And sometimes people wonder,well, how do we even know if
it's a strategic topic?
I really like what Joseph Grennyand his colleagues talk about in
the book, Crucial Conversations.
What are the threecharacteristics that he
identified as, elements of acrucial conversation?
MARGOT (05:59):
So we know that he talks
about the stakes are really
high, that opinions on the topicare varied and that people feel
really, really strongly aboutit.
JIM (06:12):
Yes.
So if, if we are aware of atopic that shows those
characteristics, it's prettymuch a giveaway that here is a
candidate for a strategicmeeting.
MARGOT (06:23):
I think we need to note
here that what's really
important is making sure greatresearch is shared ahead of the
meeting.
JIM (06:29):
Right.
So the team comes together,let's not just have a energetic
opinion, but make sure thatwe're coming with some really
good foundational information,shared understanding.
So some of the questions thatshould be considered and
information that should beprovided would, would follow an
(06:51):
outline like this.
What's the problem that needs tobe explained in pre-meeting
material?
MARGOT (06:57):
Right.
And what's at stake actually,what's it going to cost or earn
or win or lose or improve?
JIM (07:04):
Yep.
Good.
And maybe there's somebackground that we need to know
about, like maybe the companytried this before and here's how
it didn't work or why it didn'twork.
Something like that.
Yeah.
And take a look at the options.
What are maybe three compellingoptions to look at.
Yeah.
That's, that's so important that, that when we come to the
(07:25):
meeting, it isn't like there's400 options.
Neither is it, there's only oneoption.
Here are some compellingoptions.
But even further, what are thepros and cons?
If some leg work would be donebefore we even get there, that
gives everybody a running startto the conversation.
MARGOT (07:43):
And then it's important
that you assign a champion for
the issue.
And that's just someone whomakes sure that the research
actually gets done.
It doesn't mean they have to doit themselves.
They could be delegating it, butthey're the ones who are
responsible and they make surethat it's distributed and that
the meeting is scheduled andthat all of the information is
well-communicated in advance.
JIM (08:03):
Right.
The people know (08:03):
here's when
we're going to meet, here's what
, where, where we're meeting andhere's the material that we all
need to digest before we getthere.
Well let's, let's go a littlebit deeper.
Let's talk about some of thethings that make these meetings
wonderful, productive or not.
(08:24):
One of the simple little piecesis that somebody needs to
actually be assigned to keep thenotes from the meeting.
And this is something we'venoticed, Margot, where teams in
their weekly meetings, they'vegot a format for how they kind
of quickly run through theconversation.
And it's usually a pretty briefkind of conclusion that they get
(08:46):
to, there's a few action stepsor something.
These meetings there can be alot more meat to it.
So it's crucial that we don'tlose the, the ground that we
gain in this kind of strategicconversation and we will lose it
unless we have someone capturingthe notes.
MARGOT (09:03):
And let's talk about the
importance of team dynamics and
how it can affect this kind ofmeaning.
We need to be always looking forengagement from everybody and
mining for conflict, likelooking for where is there
conflict.
And I'm always reminded of howyou say silence is not
agreement.
We tend to think that people whoaren't saying anything are
(09:26):
naturally just agreeing with us,but in fact it's more likely
that they're not.
So making sure that you'rehearing from those people when
they're not saying something isvery, very important.
JIM (09:37):
Yeah, and sometimes teams
have found that what is helpful
is that for a strategic meeting,one topic, someone around the
table be assigned to be kind ofthe monitor of team dynamics so
that even though there is aperson facilitating the
conversation, another one ismaking sure that we're hearing
(09:58):
from people and...
MARGOT (10:00):
Watching the body
language.
JIM (10:01):
That kind of stuff, yeah.
MARGOT (10:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's how you come to acommitment about decisions,
making sure that everybody'sweighed in.
JIM (10:08):
Yeah.
So, so then another curious oneis the team figure out when the
conversation is done, as inwe've talked about this enough
that we can actually come to aconclusion.
Sometimes there's this tendencyon bigger, broader topics to
just kind of let it go on and onand even feel like, and we
(10:32):
probably should meet again inanother week to talk about this.
And, our push is no, do goodpre-work so that there's great
information before the meetingand kind of commit yourselves to
figure out an answer before youend the meeting.
MARGOT (10:49):
I think one of the
things that teams struggle with
a lot is they feel like eachmember brings into a strategic
meeting, their own agenda andoften they go, you know, down
the track of one of those piecesrather than being able to look
at the holistic strategic issue.
JIM (11:05):
Right, right.
And sometimes even there's two,two people that are in the same
sort of vein.
They are eager to kind of pusheach other deep, deep, deep.
The rest, sit back, kind of letthe conversation happen.
That would be another signal.
The conversation should endhere.
This team has done its part andnow the decision is made.
(11:30):
What's the next action?
A way that we talk about this isthat the team should focus on
the what, what is the decisionthat we're making?
The how doesn't have to getfigured out by this team.
It's very appropriate to say,okay, so this is going to be a
combination of Theresa and Billworking together because that's
(11:51):
HR and Production, figuring outhow to do this.
And that's just, they pass it tothe next kind of layer with
that.
MARGOT (12:00):
I think that that's a
real struggle that they feel
that they want to resolve thewhole thing, not just the what,
but the how as well within thisparticular meeting and that
understanding that releases themfrom that sort of a pressure
that keeps the meeting going andgoing and going.
JIM (12:13):
Right, right.
And the truth is that in thosemoments, there are some people
around the table that are justwishing they could be somewhere
else.
And then there are, there are afew that take the bait.
They really like to go into thedetail on the how and so, yes.
Just agree that's not whathappens in these strategic
(12:33):
meetings.
MARGOT (12:35):
So what do you think
about the concept of making the
champion the meeting chair?
JIM (12:39):
I like that.
I think that, here's one reason:
a great chair is a person who is (12:40):
undefined
focusing more on facilitatingrather than on contributing to
the content.
MARGOT (12:52):
Exactly.
JIM (12:53):
And a downside of the, the
champion being of high
participant is that they mayhave been the one that had their
nose in this the most, so theymight have the most opinion and
content at their fingertips.
It's better for them to berequired to kind of be quieter
(13:14):
and be drawing in theperspectives out of the rest of
the team.
MARGOT (13:17):
Yeah, let the rest of
the team weigh in.
JIM (13:18):
Exactly.
Well those are just a few ideasto try to make these strategic
meetings work well and webelieve that if every team knows
that they can just kind of putsomething to the side, they will
come to it as a team and makethese decisions together.
It releases all the othermeetings to be more effective
(13:38):
too.
MARGOT (13:39):
I know that meetings
might seem very dry and like a
boring kind of topic, but thetruth is that meetings can make
or break how well you're doingwith your team.
Strategic meetings are onepiece, and we're going to be
talking next about the daily andweekly tactical meetings as
well.
So both the daily and the weeklymeetings are pivotal for
bringing issues right out in theopen.
(14:01):
This way you can create anunderstanding of the connections
and the implications that affecteveryone in the organization.
It's incredibly powerful the waythat an effective meeting can
impact your team and yourcompany.
JIM (14:15):
Okay! We want you to go out
and try what we've talked about
today on your own leadershipteam.
MARGOT (14:21):
You can ask us questions
or download notes from this
episode at www.orghealth.coach.
We'd love for you to join usnext Thursday on The OrgHealth
Podcast.