November 10, 2023 • 49 mins
Today, I'm speaking with Trissa, an autistic parent with ADHD based in Washington State. Trissa talks about ways to regulate yourself as a neurodivergent parent and also give your neurodivergent children ways to self-regulate.
Trissa's helpful tips and suggestions are particularly useful for autistic, ADHDer, and otherwise neurodivergent parents of children who are both experiencing sensory and cognitive overload.
Find out some of the best strategies for neurodivergent parents and kids who are dealing with the ongoing possibility of burnout and meltdown at the same time.
"She would melt down and then it would send me into a meltdown, and because I wasn't thinking about how to regulate myself and what I needed to remain calm, we would cycle together frequently." —Trissa
Watch this episode on YouTube.
Check out Trissa's TikTok
And the Embrace Autism website mentioned in this episode
Episode outro music: "Wild Ride" by oomiee
Theme music: "Everything Feels New" by Evgeny Bardyuzha.
All episodes written and produced by Kristen Hovet.
Send in your questions or thoughts via audio or video recording for a chance to be featured on the show! Email your audio or video clips to otherautism@gmail.com through WeTransfer.
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The views, opinions, and experiences shared by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or production team. The content is intended for informational purposes only and should not be taken as medical or professional advice. Please consult with a qualified healthcare provider before making any decisions related to your health, fitness, or wellness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen Hovet (00:00):
Hey everyone and welcome back to The Other Autism
podcast.
I'm really excited to show you,or to play for you, this
conversation.
So a few days ago I spoke withTrissa, an autistic parent with
ADHD based in Washington state.
But before I share ourconversation, I'd like to
(00:23):
apologize for the long break youmay have noticed if you're a
listener or a watcher of thispodcast.
So a lot's been going on for me.
My last semester of my master'sprogram started up in September
.
I'm working on my finalmanuscript and I'd say it's
(00:44):
taking up most of my spare timethese days.
So if you're wondering whereI've been, that's the main thing
.
I only have a few weeks left inmy program.
Then I'll have my master'sdegree, so it's all worth it.
But you know it's been a lotand I started this degree in
early 2021.
(01:04):
So I'm ready for it to be over.
I'm ready to just chill, whichby chill means working and
podcasting and everything else.
So, anyway, other things thathave been happening Toby the cat
was in the animal hospital forfour nights.
He had a bowel obstruction thatappeared to be caused by
(01:27):
inflammation.
They looked and looked and theycouldn't find any actual object
, so it looked like he just hadsome kind of viral or bacterial
infection that causedinflammation and then it just
kind of made things stop up.
He was in a lot of pain.
It was really hard, it wasreally sad to watch him go
(01:47):
through that.
He's never been sick.
I've had him for five years andsince he was a rescue kitten
he's never been that sick.
He's never been really evensick other than under the
weather, a couple of days hereor there.
So it was really really hard towatch him go through that.
It was hard to have him awayfrom me.
(02:08):
Like, apart from going on somevacations here and there
throughout the years, I reallyhe's been by my side this whole
time.
So I had trouble sleeping, Ihad trouble just adjusting to
life on my own for the most partwithout little meow meow
running around for four days.
So it was really hard.
(02:29):
It was also sad because hedidn't get the chance to wear
his Halloween costume that hepicked out.
So I guess we'll have to savethat for next year.
I was even hoping to post somepictures.
Speaking of the devil.
Hello, Mr.
Minew! Really?
That's so cute, that's a cutemeow.
(02:51):
Anyway, also work.
In other words, you know myfull-time job has been, I would
say next level busy.
I was sick for a while and justall kinds of things going on,
some really really good, somenot so good.
Other than that, you know, Ican't believe it's already
(03:12):
November, and then I keep seeingToby whenever I glance over Hi
Toby.
So the next announcement that'ssuper important.
I need to thank four listenersJen, Pepa, Nate, and Anonymous
(03:32):
for your generous one-time showsof support to The Other Autism
podcast.
Jen, Pepa, Nate, and Anonymousused the Buy Me a Coffee link to
send in one-time donations.
If you find this podcastinteresting or helpful in any
way and would like to do thesame, please check out the link
in the show notes that says BuyMe a Coffee.
(03:54):
For the price of a coffee, ortwo or three, you can help keep
this podcast going and growing.
I'd also like to thank thenewest sponsor of The Other
Autism podcast, Carolyne.
Carolyne, I really appreciateyour support, my friend.
So a sponsor puts forward anamount, basically that they're
(04:16):
charged every month, usuallythree or five dollars, and that
goes directly into supportingthe podcast.
For anyone else interested inbecoming a sponsor, if you find
this podcast meaningful to youand you want to help out, please
check out the show notes forlinks that say Support the Show
or Become a Supporter of theShow for as little as $3 a month
(04:36):
.
I'd also like to announce thatI'm changing the way the
episodes are numbered.
So until today, you've probablynoticed, I've used the season
and episode format, but I'd liketo try just counting episodes
the way I've seen some otherpodcasts do, and of course for
most podcasts the seasons reallyare arbitrary.
We just pick a season start andend that makes sense, but it
(05:02):
doesn't really follow anyspecific days or calendar
whatever.
So I just thought you know thisis cool and then we can also
see the counting of the episodes.
So that means this episode isnumber 30.
So hello and welcome to episodenumber 30.
And with that, please say helloto my guest for today, Trissa.
Trissa (05:25):
My name is Trissa and I am a almost 43 year old late
diagnosed autistic woman whoalso has ADHD.
I am the mother of two children, one of whom I believe also has
autism, although because welive in the state of Washington,
it's very hard to get adiagnosis and we're working on
that.
And then I believe that myother child is not autistic, but
(05:47):
I believe he likely has ADHD.
I have been in the field ofsocial work, although I will
preface that by saying that inthis field usually you're only
considered as having the titleof social worker if you have an
MSW, and I do not.
I have a bachelor's degree.
However, I have worked on theground in social work-ish type
(06:08):
positions for the last 24 yearsof my life, and that experience
has included work with CPS in astate that I don't currently
live in, but I was there for 12years doing case management,
investigations management, andthen I currently run an early
learning program for parents ofyoung children.
The personal experience I haveas a late diagnosed
(06:29):
neurodivergent person kind ofrethinking their whole life as
well as trying to parent aneurodivergent child, which is
actually what got me down thisroad to believe that I might be
neurodivergent in the firstplace, and then all the social
work background that I have.
Kristen Hovet (06:45):
I know that you realized that you're
neurodivergent after yourdaughter was diagnosed.
This was confirmed when youwere diagnosed this past summer.
So could you share a bit aboutwhen you first realized that and
also like what was your firstaha moment?
Trissa (06:58):
My daughter actually hasn't officially been diagnosed
with autism.
I want to give that caveatbecause we live in what I would
call a very medical and mentalhealth desert and Washington
state has specific diagnosticcriteria and only certain people
can diagnose it.
So she has been officiallydiagnosed with sensory
(07:20):
processing disorder, selectivemutism and anxiety, which, in my
opinion, is essentially autism,and we are working with a
psychiatrist who can't give heran official diagnosis under
Washington law, but believe shehas an autism diagnosis.
But what was my aha moment formyself?
(07:40):
So we spent two years duringthe pandemic, her behavior had
really, my daughter's behaviorhad really gotten pretty bad,
and there was a moment where,quite literally, she almost died
while having a meltdown.
We were out hiking.
This was about two and a halfyears ago, April of 2021.
She had a meltdown and wasliterally 24 inches from the
(08:02):
edge of a cliff that was over araging river that had all the
winter runoff and it was thescariest moment of my entire
life.
And she'd had some meltdownsbefore that, although I coded
them at the time as fits, likethat children are having fits,
so she was six, almost seven, atthe time.
That was a real wake up calland so we started getting her
(08:22):
into services and the next twoyears of trying to get her
services was quite horrible,quite frankly.
Some might say, well, you livenear Seattle, but Seattle is
almost three hours away fromwhere I'm at.
Spokane is also almost threehours away from where I'm at.
I am in central Washington in acommunity of about 100,000
(08:42):
people, so it definitely doesnot have the resources that a
lot of other areas do, which iswhy we are now seeking services
outside of our area.
As I was exploring and tryingto understand her needs, as I
was doing research, as I wasreading books, as I was watching
or listening to podcasts, as Iwas watching TikTok videos, as I
was watching YouTube videos, Idon't remember an exact aha
(09:06):
moment, but I know that slowly Istarted thinking like I really
think I might have autism.
What I had to do, first andforemost, and I think this is
true for a lot of people, is youhave to come to understand, you
have to get over thestereotypes that we have of
people with autism.
You have to sort of get pastthis image that you have in your
mind of, like you know, amiddle class white boy from the
(09:29):
90s who has outbursts and stufflike that.
You have to, and I use thatspecific stereotype because I've
worked with children like that,like that's not just my, you
know, that's not just what I'vebeen exposed to in media.
Again, I've worked in socialwork for 24 years.
Both my mother and my sisterare special education teachers.
My sister actually was theprimary teacher for a special
(09:52):
education preschool at our localdistrict for about three years,
working with children withautism diagnoses.
Additionally, there is ABA inthe agency at which I work.
You have this idea of whatsomebody with autism or someone
who is neurodivergent is in yourhead, and the way I thought
about myself did not in any wayfit that stereotype.
(10:14):
A lot of what that research waswas informing myself, but also
trying to understand, basically,this wasn't conscious.
It makes it sound like it wasconscious, but it wasn't
conscious.
Like I realize now, I wasslowly overcoming and
recognizing the stereotypes thatI had of somebody with autism.
I will say, though, however,that my family has sort of
(10:36):
unofficially diagnosed my dadwith autism a long time ago, my
mom, my sister and I, but I am awoman and I look very different
than my dad does.
There are some behaviors thatoverlap and I'm able to
recognize them now.
So what I thought for my entirelife was really chronic
depression and anxiety, veryserious chronic depression and
(10:57):
anxiety that I had to gettreatment for on and off my
entire life.
I've actually been on a highlevel of, although my
psychiatrist recently told me itwasn't that high of a level,
but I thought it was a highlevel of sertraline which is
Zoloft for the last nine years.
So in the spring I reallystarted to come to like, hey, I
(11:19):
think, maybe.
And I was watching a TikTokvideo of a woman who is a
therapist in Canada and she'sneurodivergent and she actually
provides a lot of counselingservices for counselors.
So that's her primary work base.
She has autistic children, butshe mentioned Embrace Autism.
It's a very kind of fun andinteractive website.
(11:40):
They built that forneurodivergent people, I love it
so much, where you could go andjust test, and so her thing was
you know, if you're curious, gosee.
So one day at work I was like,let's just see.
I went on to their website andI believe they have four or five
I don't remember exactly, butfour or five different autism
tests that are like thestandardized tests like the
(12:03):
RAADS-R and I don't rememberwhat they all are off the top of
my head, but you can go thereand you can get a lot of those
standardized tests.
And so I took all of them andall of them put me on the scale
as having autism, so much sothat there are two main
providers on that websitebecause, like, they don't just
do the testing, but they willalso do screenings where you
(12:23):
send them information andthey'll kind of let you know
what their thoughts are but alsoyou can do a full evaluation.
So the two doctors who run thatwebsite had their scores up for
each of those tests and Iscored higher than both of them,
or maybe not higher, I scored,you know, in a more autistic
range.
You know my background.
(12:43):
I've been in social work but mydegree was in psychology and I
actually did a research methodstudy while I was in school.
So standardized tests sort ofappeal to me in some ways.
I don't think that they're theend all be all, but like they
often sort of help me get overthat skeptical piece that I have
, you know, like where I believewhat my gut is saying, but like
this has been researched and itsort of just gives me that
(13:06):
extra, you know that extra piece.
That was really where I had theaha moment and then I started
talking with my family about itand my sister and my mom, like I
mentioned, are specialeducation teachers and they have
worked with children who arediagnosed with autism their
entire careers.
You know, my mom currentlyworks in a self-contained
classroom for children who willnot get regular high school
(13:29):
diplomas.
They, you know, for whateverreason, have usually it's
intellectual disabilities, butother disabilities as well.
And so her association, again,her association with autism, my
sister's association with autism, is usually around people who
also have intellectual disorders, because those are the easy
ones to catch.
So everybody in my family Ikind of let everybody know, like
I was,we were at dinner one day and it
(13:51):
was my mom and my sister, andmy partner was on board because
he has sort of self diagnosedhimself with autism and ADHD as
well.
My ex husband was there, thefather of my two children, his
wife, and I think again, liketheir response was really around
those stereotypes that peoplehave.
But nobody was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no.
(14:11):
Everybody was like, Well, youknow, do what you need to do.
I actually ended up againbecause I am ever the skeptic,
not necessarily of other peoplebut of myself.
I ended up doing a screeningthrough Embrace Autism, and so
what a screening looks like forthem is that they have you do
several more tests and then theysend you out a questionnaire
(14:33):
that's pretty long, with I don'tknow, I don't recall how many
questions, but you know 30, andI ended up writing back 25 pages
of what I could remember goingback into my early childhood.
They can't diagnose you withjust that.
Obviously you have to have ameeting, which they could do,
but I wasn't prepared to paythat extra amount, like I just
wanted them to review based onkind of the testing and then
(14:55):
what I had to say about myself.
It wasn't a diagnosis, but itcame back saying that I fit all
the criteria for, in theiropinion, I would likely fit all
the criteria for autism, andthat they would strongly
recommend that I seek out a fulldiagnosis.
So I then went forward and founda psychiatrist in my state who
(15:15):
accepts my insurance and who ispretty knowledgeable in autism,
met with her a couple times andafter the second meeting she was
like, and I gave her that finalreport that I got from Embrace
Autism, I gave her my 25 pagesof writing.
She was like, I don't have anydoubt that you have autism.
And she was like the only thingthat I wonder is, if, do you
(15:36):
have ADHD?
And I was like, oh, I don't, Ireally hadn't thought about ADHD
the way that I thought aboutautism.
And so she had me do the Ithink it's the Vanderbilt or one
of the screenings for autismand she was like I want you to,
when you do this,it was interesting how she sort
of primed me for it, because shesaid I want you to, when you're
doing this,I want you to think about not
(15:59):
just like what you DO, but whatyou WANT to do and what you STOP
yourself from doing.
And I was like, oh, that makesso much more sense.
And so because when she primedme for that, I did it and I came
out as having ADHD combinedtype, and I don't think I would
have had maybe either type if Ihad not been primed with a
thinking about what you want todo and you stop yourself from
(16:22):
doing.
And I think that that's sorelevant and important because
one of the questions on theVanderbilt is like do you have a
hard time sitting still in likemeetings or in classrooms, or
something like that.
Not primed with that I wouldhave said no, I don't have any
problem right, but primed withwhat I want to do?
Hell yeah, I have a hard timesitting in meetings and I have
to force myself and I'mconstantly doing something and
(16:44):
I'm stimming in some way duringevery single meeting,
you know what I'm saying, likewhether it's not visible, like
nobody necessarily sees it, butI cannot sit still.
I am always doing somethingunless I'm asleep.
So that's how I got to thepoint.
I actually don't have whatWashington State would call a
full diagnosis, meaning, like I,like under their DDA criteria,
(17:09):
like I don't have theirdisability criteria, I don't
have a full diagnosis.
It would require going to apsychologist, but I don't feel
the need to do that.
The diagnosis was really a lotmore for me than it was for, you
know, any sort ofaccommodations, although my
workplace is lovely, I have afantastic boss, I have a
fantastic agency that I work forand they were perfectly okay
(17:30):
taking the word of a nurse, apsychiatric nurse practitioner
with a lot of experience.
So I don't really feel the need, you know, for a full diagnosis
.
I don't need it for, you know,disability or accommodations.
I'm privileged in that way.
So that's kind of where I'm at.
That's how I got my diagnosis.
That was my process.
A lot of TikTok videos, a lotof YouTube videos, just
(17:52):
listening to people talk abouttheir lived experience and going
, oh my God, that is exactly me,you know, laughing, like
laughing almost crying, becauseyou're like, oh my God, like,
that is absolutely me, like thatis my experience.
Kristen Hovet (18:07):
It's so validating.
Trissa (18:09):
And I thought I was crazy.
Yes, exactly.
Kristen Hovet (18:11):
Yeah.
Trissa (18:11):
Like I thought I was a one off.
No, turns out there's a lot ofus, but we just have learned not
to talk about it because ofjudgment.
Kristen Hovet (18:19):
Exactly, yeah, so I have a question.
I've just been writing noteshere.
This wasn't in my list ofquestions, but I thought of it
as you were speaking.
How has your self conceptchanged since realizing that
you're autistic and that youhave ADHD?
Trissa (18:35):
Yeah, I think the biggest way that my self concept
has changed is giving myself somuch more compassion and
empathy.
You know one of the things Ijoked about when the
psychiatrist told me, yeah, Ifeel comfortable saying you fit
the diagnostic criteria forautism and you fit the
diagnostic criteria for ADHD.
And actually she said she feltI met the diagnostic criteria
(18:55):
for generalized anxiety on topof that.
She was like, autistic peopleand people with ADHD also
already have anxiety.
She was like, but she asked mea lot of questions, like parsing
out the anxiety and felt like,on top of what any sort of
normal autistic person wouldhave,
like I have additional anxiety.
I think that through a lot ofmy life I haven't given myself
(19:18):
much compassion or empathy orspace to be who I am.
I think I have a lot of reallynegative tapes about you know,
why can't you do this?
Why can't you do that?
Why is your house messy?
Why can't you get this done atwork?
Why can't you do this?
Why aren't you a better mom?
Why aren't you this, why aren'tyou that?
And I always gave grace forother people.
I always gave compassion andempathy for other people,
(19:40):
because I see how hard it hasbeen for me but that didn't
always translate back to myself.
And so over the last you knowit's pushing about six months
that I've been in this fulldiscovery process.
I mean really radically givingmyself compassion and empathy
and space to just be who I am,as I'm sure lots of late
(20:02):
diagnosed people have, like justgoing back and thinking through
so many memories and going,like you know, just even giving
my younger self grace, but alsotrying to give myself, my
younger self, the love that Iwish I had given myself at the
time, you know, like the carethat I wish I'd given myself at
the time.
I actually had a reallyinteresting realization this
(20:25):
past weekend, so you can seebehind me,
I love to craft and most of itis paper crafts, so I love
scrapbooking.
But one of the things that I dois I will get magazines, I'll
get art books, I'll getgardening books and all sorts of
other stuff, and stickers likethis, you know, right here, this
is the whole bin of stickers,you know, and I will cut stuff
(20:46):
out of books like art, and thenwhat I do is I collage it back
into books.
Feeling the glue on my handsand seeing and essentially like
I believe it's art, like itcomes back together and makes
something beautiful that I love,and I actually journal at the
same time into the books.
As I was cutting this weekend.
So my kids are with me 5050.
Their dad and I split about twoyears ago this month actually
(21:10):
but we have a good workingco-parenting relationship, so we
have the kids 5050.
My kids are 9 and 11.
I didn't say that earlier, butthey're 9 and 11, and so last
weekend wasn't my weekend.
The kids were with their dadand then my partner, he has a
son and a stepson down inTri-Cities, which is about an
hour and a half away from wherewe're at, and his ex was going
downtownand was like, hey, why don't you
just come stay at the house?
(21:30):
So I was partner-, kid-free forthree days and it was, it was
lovely.
Just the animals like you'veseen probably my dogs walking
around in the back.
So Saturday morning I'd plannedon doing all sorts of stuff and
instead I ended up going to, Iwas like, well, I'm just gonna
stop in at JOANN's and getsomething for my paper stuff,
and they ended up having a wholebunch of new papercraft stuff
(21:52):
that they haven't had in thepast, and so I was like, oh,
this just derailed my entire daybecause I will be, I will be
working with this stuff, andthen,
Yeah, JOANN's Fabrics is itsname.
Kristen Hovet (22:04):
Oh, okay.
Trissa (22:06):
Kind of like Michaels or Hobby Lobby.
So then I went to, there's aGood will two doors down and
that is where I buy the booksthat I cut out, like I buy old
art books or old craft books andthey had a stack of magazines
and I sat down on the ground andI, because they were five for a
dollar and I pulled out 50magazines like cooking magazines
(22:28):
and other magazines that hadgreat pictures in them, and then
I went home and I spent likethe next 12 hours just cutting
out.
Normally I would have hatedmyself for that, like if I had
done that I would have hated,like, HATED myself.
It would have sent me into thislike depressive episode where I
would have just been spiraling,you know, like why would you do
that?
You could have been doing x, yand z.
You could have cleaned thehouse, you could have done this,
(22:49):
you could have done that, likeyou could have gone out, you
could have like.
But because I've given myselfthat grace, like I was really
happy, like I had a really greattime just being with myself and
listening to podcasts andwatching some TV and just
cutting things out of magazinesand just being safe and
comfortable in my space.
And I had this realization thatwhen I was in my early 20s, so
(23:15):
when I was probably like 21, 22ish I must have been 20.
I graduated with my bachelor'sdegree when I was 21.
I was working three quarterstime and I was going to school
full-time and I had actuallygotten married, I was already
married.
I'd got married at 19 because Iwas raised in a very
evangelical household and likethat's what you did.
(23:35):
Yeah, so I've actually beendivorced twice.
So it was my high schoolsweetheart and I eventually had,
like you know, sort of thenormal like got married in the
normal range.
So there was a time where I didsomething very similar where I
was cutting stuff out of variousthings and gluing them in, and
I would do that whenever Iwasn't doing homework or working
and I didn't really have muchof a social life.
So I ended up, after my divorceand I moved away and I started
(23:59):
doing more of the traditionalthings that people my age did it
, like going out and drinkingand hanging out with friends,
and I codedthat time, I was like, oh, I
must have been really depressed,like I might as well just, why
does?
Who cuts stuff out of paper?
You know, who cuts out paper?
Like who does that?
Who does that?
Like what is that?
You know?
And so for the whole of my 20sand 30s just coded that as you
(24:19):
know, aberrant behavior, like Iabsolutely pathologized it.
And so the realization I had asI was like working with the
paper this weekend is like, ohmy god, this is, this is who I
am.
This is who I am, and I didn'thave the strength or the
knowledge or the ability toprovide compassion for myself
(24:41):
enough to go, at the time, 20years ago, 22, 23 years ago, to
say, no, this is really okay andthis is what I enjoy doing and
this is my safe space.
And it makes me just realize,like, how hard I pushed myself
and how highly I masked throughthe whole of the rest of my 20s
and 30s.
You know, just masked throughmy 20s and 30s.
It's a really long way toanswer your question of how I've
(25:05):
gone back.
I've gone back on so many ofthose things to rethink them.
Kristen Hovet (25:09):
I was thinking too while you were saying that,
like, Who cuts out paper?
Well, artists do.
Creative people do.
Trissa (25:18):
Exactly and I think I didn't code myself in that way.
In the same way I didn't codemyself as autistic, you know
what I'm saying?
Like they're kind of because Ithink that we discount artists
in our culture.
And it's interesting, Iactually made a TikTok recently,
at the same time I was doingthis I made a TikTok and was
like so a lot of the books thatI'm cutting out are quilting
books, because I love having thepatterns to then glue back into
(25:39):
my books and the work that someof these people who crochet and
quilt, I mean, they're just,they are, they are art pieces.
And at the same time I'mcutting out art books, like you
know from the Louvre and fromyou know the Metropolitan Museum
.
And I had this realization, Iwas like we code what women do
as crafts and we code what mendo as art, but it's still
(26:01):
beautiful regardless.
I think you're right, t hat'swhat artists do, yeah.
Kristen Hovet (26:05):
Definitely, and it takes an artist's brain to
put things together in a certainway, like not everyone can
think of those things.
So that's to me, that's anartist.
Trissa (26:15):
And that's one of the things I've also come to realize
is that, you know, mydaughter's psychiatrist had
really compared my daughter toTemple Grandin, because my
daughter has been inventing andthe things she's invented, the
things that she creates.
She has created the artworks,the structure she's built, so
she has, for example, magnettiles and even at age four she
could build these like insanelyhigh structures that went up to
(26:36):
your waist, could stay, weresturdy for days on end, you know
.
So her psychiatrist comparedher and was like, hey, you need
to go read some of the stuffthat Temple Grandin has been
doing lately around learning andhow, like some people learn in
words and some people learn inpictures.
And I also had another ahamoment, realized like, oh, I
learn in pictures, I learn inpictures and I have been living
(26:58):
in a world that teaches throughwords and I have had to
translate that in my head andactually, interestingly, that's
leading to some work.
So I manage a program where Ihave 15 staff and I'm onboarding
new leadership staff right nowand so it's actually changed the
way that I onboard my staff.
I have created a lot morevisuals for people who need to
learn in visuals.
(27:18):
It was really an aha moment forme around that.
I've been talking with somepeople who are like technical
assistants at the state levelaround the work that I do and
saying like, hey, maybe weshould really create an
onboarding manual for newsupervisors, but let's really
get some visual stuff in there,because I think I could have
saved myself so much time inthis learning process in doing
(27:39):
this work if I'd had visuals.
Kristen Hovet (27:42):
When you reached out to me, you were talking
about some challenges thatneurodivergent parents have when
parenting neurodivergentChildren.
What have you found personallyto be the most challenging in
parenting?
Trissa (27:56):
So I want to preface what I'm about to say is that I
am saying it from my perspective.
These are not things that Iexpose my daughter to, and I say
that because I see a lot ofparents of neurodivergent
children or just parents who areraising children with mental
health issues, really get beatup a lot online like, why aren't
you doing this, why aren't youdoing that?
(28:16):
I'm gonna center myself as Ianswer my questions but know
that it's not how I parent, likethese are not things that my
daughter knows, these are thingsthat I have internally
processed, if that makes sense.
So I just want to give thatcaveat.
So one of the biggest things iswhen she was having, so I
mentioned the incident where shealmost fell off the cliff and
(28:37):
she ended up having many, many,many meltdowns.
So I had enrolled her in somebehavioral therapy and their
recommendation to us was toignore her behaviors when she
was having fits and I honestlythink that that was probably the
worst advice that we had evergotten.
It was just, it was terrible,terrible advice and it went
against what I knew as somebodywho has experience working in
the field of infant mentalhealth.
(28:58):
So the concept of infant mentalhealth is this idea that, you
know, you can't use talk therapywith small children, with
children under the age of five,under the age of three.
When they talk about infantmental health they're talking
about attachment, they'retalking about shoring up the
relationship between the primarycaregiver, or primary
caregivers, and the child.
My program works with 240people in my community who are
(29:21):
children.
In my community they do homevisiting, my staff do home
visiting.
We've done a lot of trainingaround infant mental health
because that's their whole jobis to shore up that relationship
between the parent and thechild so that the child's
success will go forward withthat lens in mind.
As my daughter entered intobehavioral therapy, it went
against everything that I knewto be true about parenting and
(29:43):
what I felt in my body and in myspirit and in my mind to ignore
her when she was having ameltdown.
And when I tried to challengethe therapist on that, he just
pushed back and he was like,well, this is what the
evidence-based practice says,and so we gave up on that pretty
quickly, but the damage wasalready done.
We went from having like acouple of meltdowns a week to
(30:04):
having five or six a day.
So what I know now is that hermeltdowns almost always very
quickly sent my central nervoussystem over the edge and sent me
into meltdowns.
I didn't know it at the time.
She would melt down and then itwould send me into a meltdown,
and because I wasn't thinkingabout how to regulate myself and
what I needed to remain calm,we would cycle together
(30:26):
frequently, and I was in prettyintensive therapy at the time,
and so the therapist gave mesome good ideas about like
sometimes you do just have towalk away, or going and putting
my hands in cold water,splashing cold water on my face,
like something to get theparasympathetic nervous system
to kick in.
As I have come to understandmyself as a neurodivergent
(30:47):
person, I have come to realizethat basically through the whole
of my parenting I was nottaking care of myself at all,
not even a little bit.
And so basically, I think aboutthe early years of my
children's childhood where I wasactually working still in CPS
at the time, I was a manager andI had two young children.
I barely remember those yearsbecause I'm pretty sure I was
(31:12):
dissociated.
I was in dissociation for thewhole of their early childhood
because of it, and I absolutelyknow that that contributed to a
lot of damage in my marriage.
That eventually led to mymarriage ending, but also I held
it together pretty well for mykids.
I have some abuse history in mychildhood and what I can now
(31:32):
reflect was my parents beingneurodivergent as well and also
not taking care of their nervoussystem needs and their
self-regulation.
I knew I didn't wanna do thatwith my kids, but the problem
was is that I never got myselfback into a regulated place.
I just dissociated.
I just ran and I didn't feelanything and anything I had to
(31:53):
give went to them and work andthat was about it.
So my marriage really sufferedbecause of it, my mental health
really suffered because of it,and so, in coming to realize
that I am also neurodivergent, Iam now giving myself language
for how to recognize when I amheading into potentially a
meltdown, but I'm also givingher language to understand when
(32:16):
she might be heading into ameltdown.
And also I've been teaching mychildren to be a lot more,
have compassion for me when I'msaying, hey guys, I can't right
now, like I need space right now, and I'll say things like, in
an ideal world, our house wouldbe clean all the time and you
would have these nice meals onthe table and I would be the
(32:37):
perfect mom.
And I said, but this isn't anideal world, like I don't have
that capacity and so like I'vechosen that sometimes, yeah,
we're gonna eat a lot of hotdogs, because really that's
their safe food anyways, we'regonna eat a lot of hot dogs and
we're gonna eat a lot of mac andcheese and we're gonna have a
house that's pretty messysometimes, but that's how you
have a regulated mom who isgonna be emotionally present
(33:00):
with you.
So I think the biggest thing Iwould say in my discovery, and I
would say to parents who areneurodivergent, is it is
absolutely, like that metaphorthat we use of you're on the
airplane and the oxygen maskscome down and they say put your
mask on first and then put theirmask on.
(33:20):
I know that we overuse that.
We overuse that in my fieldquite a bit, but it is 100% true
.
If you are not taking care ofyourself, if you are not
managing yourself,self-regulating, if you're not
finding the things that you needto remain regulated, it is
going to harm your children, itis going to harm the way that
you parent them.
I have so much compassion, somuch compassion for people who
(33:45):
are no contact with theirparents, but also the parents
who have had their adultchildren go no contact with them
, because I think again, I'veworked in this field, in social
work for 24 years and I havealways been working with parents
and children and I see whereparents have really screwed up.
I see where parents have causedharm.
When I worked for CPS, Iremoved hundreds of children
from their homes.
(34:06):
I see these things and I knowthese things.
But also I can recognize, assomebody who is a parent, who
has my own mental health issues,who's neurodivergent myself,
that, like some days, it'severything you can do not to
just, quite frankly, end yourlife, and so I have so much
empathy for parents.
What I want parents to hear isyou don't get to determine how
(34:28):
your children perceive theirchildhood, and a lot of children
who have gone no contact withtheir parents will say, well,
they did this or they didn't dothat or they didn't care.
And parents will say I did, Iwas doing the best that I could.
That's not a good enough answer.
You need to sit with what it isthat you weren't able to do,
more than likely because youwere neurodivergent or you had
(34:49):
your own mental health issues oryou had your own trauma, and
all of those things wenttogether so that they
incapacitated you as youparented.
And so that's the thing is thatif you want to be as good a
parent as you can be, becausethere's no such thing as a
perfect parent by any way,shape, form, anything, is you
have to regulate yourself first.
You have to figure out how tofind ways to do that.
(35:11):
I'm speaking from a point ofprivilege.
My children are a little bitolder, 9 and 11, they don't need
the day-to-day care, but I'vebeen there.
I've been in those days wherethey need you for everything.
They need every single momentof your attention, and those are
almost impossible.
Like I said, I don't remember alot of their early childhoods
because I was just dissociatedthe whole time.
(35:31):
I know you said on here tips forlate diagnosed parents.
I think some of the tips are Italked about a 14 hour day or a
whole weekend where I didn'thave kids and I got to my own
thing, and that is a hugeprivilege.
Parents who are single parentsdon't have that option, or who
have partners who maybe don'tsupport them in the way that
they need don't necessarily havethat option.
But before that happened, I hadfound little things that got me
(35:52):
through.
As I said before, when mydaughter was melting down, one
of the things that my counselorhad recommended was to go splash
some cold water on my hands andon my face.
I have locked myself in mybedroom before when she's
throwing a fit and banging onthe door and screaming for my
attention.
But I knew in that moment that,like we were going nowhere good
, things were gonna get worseand I needed those moments to
(36:14):
regulate myself.
And so I've locked myself in myroom and crawled underneath my
bed and covered my ears and justdid what I need to like, even
for 10 minutes regulate myselfin the moment, so that I could
come back and take care of herneeds as she was having
meltdowns.
Another thing that I'm doing,and this is harder with younger
kids, but as your kids get older, one of the things that I've
(36:35):
been doing is really giving themwords to understand when
they're having nervous systemdysregulation, and that has been
amazing.
I have seen my daughter, she'llnow say, we were at Walmart I
wanna say about two months ago,getting back to school clothes,
and she got out of the cart andshe said mom, I feel dizzy, I
feel lightheaded, my stomachhurts and I feel like I'm gonna
(36:55):
pass out.
And she had never talked interms of what her body felt like
that ever before.
And I was like, okay, I thinkyou're having some sort of like
physical reaction, maybe ananxiety attack.
Let's get you,like I put her back in the cart,
like I had her sit, like shelikes to sit in the main part.
You know, I got her out to thecar, we turned on the air
conditioning, full blast, likewe got her calm ed down,
regulated, to get her what sheneeded.
(37:16):
So, giving them words, helpingthem to try and understand, so,
at the same time that you arefiguring out what your body
needs, helping them understandwhat their body needs, giving
your children recommendations,like not when they're in the
middle of a meltdown, thatdoesn't work.
You cannot tell them to calmdown or say, hey, I think this
is really, I've done that beforewhere I've like, this is
insane, like you just ripped thecouch over socks, like you just
(37:39):
had a massive meltdown becauseI couldn't find you matching
socks that felt right.
And she's literally likeripping up parts of the couch
and I'm like you can't say inthat moment, you know what I'm
saying.
But like we've seen a hugereduction in those escalations
and in those meltdowns becauseone, I've regulated myself more.
I give her the words to helpher understand what's happening
(38:02):
in her body as she's escalating,and I circle back around with
her to sort of give hertechniques, when she's calm and
not in the middle of a meltdown,to say like, hey, let's try
this next time, let's do this.
Another thing that I don't do,I don't ever, ever shame her.
I don't believe she has achoice in any of it.
I know she doesn't have achoice because I don't have a
choice.
I would also just say don't takeanything personally that your
(38:24):
children say and do.
You just cannot and you need tovalidate their experiences.
I think if I see any pattern,or if I've seen any pattern in
my social work career aboutchildren who eventually go no
contact with their parents, it'salmost always in situations
where their parents nevervalidated their experience,
never were present with them orlistened to them with what they
were feeling.
And so for me and my children,I try very hard to, even if what
(38:48):
they're saying causes meanxiety or sadness or just kicks
in my own thinking of like oh,you're a terrible mom, like
you're a bad person, like thosetapes that play in your head,
even if they say or do somethingthat kicks that in, I don't
expose them to that, I processit through myself, I regulate
myself and I validate theirexperiences, first and foremost.
Kristen Hovet (39:11):
Thank you so much .
I think you covered like a fewof my questions there, so that's
awesome.
Trissa (39:16):
Yeah.
Kristen Hovet (39:18):
In terms of things that are rewarding about
parenting a neurodivergent childas someone who's also
neurodivergent, are there anyother you know rewarding, you've
mentioned some.
Trissa (39:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
They are so smart.
They're just so smart and theysay the funniest, craziest
things and they have, you know,my daughter is the most creative
person I know.
I think she's not just anartist, she's an inventor, and
to see the things that she makes, that she comes up with in the
moment, are just.
She made herself a pair ofballet slippers out of paper and
(39:52):
duct tape two weekends ago thatwere actually laceable and I
mean obviously they're not anactual serviceable pair of
ballet shoes.
They look like ballet shoes.
The art that I have up in mybedroom is art that she made and
that she placed sort ofperfectly above my bed.
I mean, she's an artist throughand through, and to see the
beauty that she makes just ismind blowing.
(40:12):
They're both exceptionally kind.
They're just very kind children.
I do think that that is directlyrelated to being neurodivergent
.
I'm not saying that allneurodivergent people are
necessarily kind, but I do thinkthere's something about the way
that neurodivergent people seepatterns, the way that we feel
empathy.
I think there's a deep well ofempathy that I don't always see
(40:36):
in people who aren'tneurodivergent and I see that
deep, deep empathy that I reallyhave had my entire life and
what led me into social work.
They have it as well and it's abeautiful thing and they're
just funny and silly and welaugh about things all the time.
I could go on and on about thejoys, but there are many, so, so
(40:56):
, so many.
They're just fantastic kiddosto be with and I feel very
fortunate to have them in mylife and feel very honored to be
their parent.
Kristen Hovet (41:06):
Awesome.
And also I have anotherquestion.
I'm going to slightly rewordthis one from what I sent you,
but thinking about now and alsothinking back, because I know
you mentioned now that you areaware of autism and ADHD, you
can kind of go back andreimagine almost like memories
or like re-, I don't know whatthe word is, like reprocess
(41:28):
parts of yourself with this newknowledge.
So, with that in mind, what aresome autistic traits about
yourself that you love the most?
Trissa (41:37):
I love seeing patterns.
I'm very good at seeingpatterns, and one of the things
that I have been told throughoutmy entire life is oh, you're so
smart, you're so smart, how didyou see that?
How did you picture that?
And I realize now that itreally has, I don't know that it
has a whole lot to do withintelligence and I think it has
a lot more to do with how, youknow, my synaptic pathways put
together patterns and I see them.
(41:57):
And so I have a livedexperience or I've experienced
something, and then I'm able tointuit it or kind of imagine
into the future what wouldhappen.
And because of that I've beenvery successful in my career.
I've been able to be inpositions where people will come
to me for advice or formentorship because I'm able to
see those patterns.
(42:18):
I think one of the things thatalso is a pattern seeking, but
also, just like I deconstructeverything, I always ask why,
why, why, why, why, you knowwhat I'm saying, like what, why,
how, like I'm not going to justaccept what you put in front of
me.
I do have a fair amount ofprivilege in my life.
I grew up in the middle class,I'm white, I am smart, like I
(42:41):
have a lot of privilege in mylife, like we never had food
insecurity, we never had housinginsecur-, you know like I have
a lot of privilege.
So there were systems ofoppression that I was not
exposed to when I was a young,younger child, but as I become
an adult and I've been exposedto them and I understand them,
I've been able to thoroughlydeconstruct them and I
understand now how, you know,white supremacy culture
(43:02):
interacts with patriarchy,interacts with ableism,
interacts with paternalism,interacts with capitalism, and
how all of those systems ofoppression come together to
cause harm to those of us who dohave those privileges, but also
people who don't have thoseprivileges, both.
They harm everybody, you know,and so I've been able to see
that and I've done a lot of worksupporting my staff.
(43:23):
My community is 55% HispanicLatino.
I am in the poorest communityin my state, because we are a
largely agricultural community,to be able to like see those
patterns and call out thosesystems.
I love that.
I love that about myself.
I love that I can, I love thatI don't just take an answer and
go with it, like I love that Iam going to spend time and I can
(43:45):
spend time, I am able to lookat something from a million
different angles before I make adecision.
I love my creativity.
I think I'm very creative.
I love that I do have a lot ofempathy for people.
You know, my life has been,quite frankly and I think some
people think I'm beinghyperbolic when I say this, but
it is not true, like I never,ever, would have spent my life
(44:05):
working in a corporation orworking for private entities.
Never would have done it.
And I'm not saying that anybodywho does is in the wrong.
I'm not saying that at all.
Like we wouldn't, have aneconomy
if that was true, you know, butI have always been in a helping
profession and I love that.
I know I have made a differenceand I think that that deep
(44:25):
empathy that I have felt since Iwas a young child absolutely
sent me down that path.
You know, I remember being five.
One of the memories I have iswhen I was five and they were
talking about children who were,it was a Christian radio
station that my parents werelistening to and they were
talking about children, you know, starving in various places
around the world and I just, mydad tells us about how he looked
(44:47):
back and I was just like crying, like just tears running down
my face, and one of the thingsthat I think is different about
me as a neurodivergent person isthat I didn't just hear that
and go, oh, that sucks.
Like I heard that and I felt itin my body and I wondered to
myself, like why, why them andnot me?
Or why me and not them?
You know why, why?
(45:07):
There's literally nothing thatmakes me any more special than
any other human being on thisplanet other than just the luck
of my birth.
I feel that through my entirebody.
I think that deep well ofempathy absolutely is tied to
being autistic.
Kristen Hovet (45:23):
Yeah, definitely.
And the last question I have,is there anything I haven't
asked you about that you'd liketo mention?
Trissa (45:29):
I want to emphasize to just have empathy for yourself
just as you're going throughthis journey, and also don't let
people talk you out of it.
Know what's in your gut, listento your body, listen to your
feelings, do what's right foryou.
Don't cause harm, but do what'sright for you.
My social circle has becomevery small.
(45:50):
It was already shrinking preCOVID, but it is very small.
It's interesting because in thepast I've had therapists that
have coded that as unhealthy,and recently I went back into
therapy and I found aneurodivergent affirming
therapist and she asked twoquestions, what's your social
life like?
And so I filled that in, andthen the second question is how
(46:10):
do you feel about your sociallife?
And that's the second question,I've never gotten that question
before and I said I feel greatabout it!
I like where my life is at rightnow.
I'm the happiest, the calmest,the freest I've ever felt in my
entire life.
Does that mean that I don'thave moments?
Of course I still have moments.
Of course I still havemeltdowns, but by giving myself
compassion and empathy to be whoI am, I am feeling so much more
(46:35):
whole and better than I everhave.
It's wonderful that that'shappening at 42, but also a
little bit heartbreaking thatthat's happening at 42, almost
43.
Kristen Hovet (46:46):
A huge thank you to Trissa for being my guest on
The Other Autism podcast.
And that's all I have for youtoday.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Until next time, bye.
Hey everyone and welcome back to The Other Autism
podcast.
I'm really excited to show you,or to play for you, this
conversation.
So a few days ago I spoke withTrissa, an autistic parent with
ADHD based in Washington state.
But before I share ourconversation, I'd like to
(00:23):
apologize for the long break youmay have noticed if you're a
listener or a watcher of thispodcast.
So a lot's been going on for me.
My last semester of my master'sprogram started up in September
.
I'm working on my finalmanuscript and I'd say it's
(00:44):
taking up most of my spare timethese days.
So if you're wondering whereI've been, that's the main thing
.
I only have a few weeks left inmy program.
Then I'll have my master'sdegree, so it's all worth it.
But you know it's been a lotand I started this degree in
early 2021.
(01:04):
So I'm ready for it to be over.
I'm ready to just chill, whichby chill means working and
podcasting and everything else.
So, anyway, other things thathave been happening Toby the cat
was in the animal hospital forfour nights.
He had a bowel obstruction thatappeared to be caused by
(01:27):
inflammation.
They looked and looked and theycouldn't find any actual object
, so it looked like he just hadsome kind of viral or bacterial
infection that causedinflammation and then it just
kind of made things stop up.
He was in a lot of pain.
It was really hard, it wasreally sad to watch him go
(01:47):
through that.
He's never been sick.
I've had him for five years andsince he was a rescue kitten
he's never been that sick.
He's never been really evensick other than under the
weather, a couple of days hereor there.
So it was really really hard towatch him go through that.
It was hard to have him awayfrom me.
(02:08):
Like, apart from going on somevacations here and there
throughout the years, I reallyhe's been by my side this whole
time.
So I had trouble sleeping, Ihad trouble just adjusting to
life on my own for the most partwithout little meow meow
running around for four days.
So it was really hard.
(02:29):
It was also sad because hedidn't get the chance to wear
his Halloween costume that hepicked out.
So I guess we'll have to savethat for next year.
I was even hoping to post somepictures.
Speaking of the devil.
Hello, Mr.
Minew! Really?
That's so cute, that's a cutemeow.
(02:51):
Anyway, also work.
In other words, you know myfull-time job has been, I would
say next level busy.
I was sick for a while and justall kinds of things going on,
some really really good, somenot so good.
Other than that, you know, Ican't believe it's already
(03:12):
November, and then I keep seeingToby whenever I glance over Hi
Toby.
So the next announcement that'ssuper important.
I need to thank four listenersJen, Pepa, Nate, and Anonymous
(03:32):
for your generous one-time showsof support to The Other Autism
podcast.
Jen, Pepa, Nate, and Anonymousused the Buy Me a Coffee link to
send in one-time donations.
If you find this podcastinteresting or helpful in any
way and would like to do thesame, please check out the link
in the show notes that says BuyMe a Coffee.
(03:54):
For the price of a coffee, ortwo or three, you can help keep
this podcast going and growing.
I'd also like to thank thenewest sponsor of The Other
Autism podcast, Carolyne.
Carolyne, I really appreciateyour support, my friend.
So a sponsor puts forward anamount, basically that they're
(04:16):
charged every month, usuallythree or five dollars, and that
goes directly into supportingthe podcast.
For anyone else interested inbecoming a sponsor, if you find
this podcast meaningful to youand you want to help out, please
check out the show notes forlinks that say Support the Show
or Become a Supporter of theShow for as little as $3 a month
(04:36):
.
I'd also like to announce thatI'm changing the way the
episodes are numbered.
So until today, you've probablynoticed, I've used the season
and episode format, but I'd liketo try just counting episodes
the way I've seen some otherpodcasts do, and of course for
most podcasts the seasons reallyare arbitrary.
We just pick a season start andend that makes sense, but it
(05:02):
doesn't really follow anyspecific days or calendar
whatever.
So I just thought you know thisis cool and then we can also
see the counting of the episodes.
So that means this episode isnumber 30.
So hello and welcome to episodenumber 30.
And with that, please say helloto my guest for today, Trissa.
Trissa (05:25):
My name is Trissa and I am a almost 43 year old late
diagnosed autistic woman whoalso has ADHD.
I am the mother of two children, one of whom I believe also has
autism, although because welive in the state of Washington,
it's very hard to get adiagnosis and we're working on
that.
And then I believe that myother child is not autistic, but
(05:47):
I believe he likely has ADHD.
I have been in the field ofsocial work, although I will
preface that by saying that inthis field usually you're only
considered as having the titleof social worker if you have an
MSW, and I do not.
I have a bachelor's degree.
However, I have worked on theground in social work-ish type
(06:08):
positions for the last 24 yearsof my life, and that experience
has included work with CPS in astate that I don't currently
live in, but I was there for 12years doing case management,
investigations management, andthen I currently run an early
learning program for parents ofyoung children.
The personal experience I haveas a late diagnosed
(06:29):
neurodivergent person kind ofrethinking their whole life as
well as trying to parent aneurodivergent child, which is
actually what got me down thisroad to believe that I might be
neurodivergent in the firstplace, and then all the social
work background that I have.
Kristen Hovet (06:45):
I know that you realized that you're
neurodivergent after yourdaughter was diagnosed.
This was confirmed when youwere diagnosed this past summer.
So could you share a bit aboutwhen you first realized that and
also like what was your firstaha moment?
Trissa (06:58):
My daughter actually hasn't officially been diagnosed
with autism.
I want to give that caveatbecause we live in what I would
call a very medical and mentalhealth desert and Washington
state has specific diagnosticcriteria and only certain people
can diagnose it.
So she has been officiallydiagnosed with sensory
(07:20):
processing disorder, selectivemutism and anxiety, which, in my
opinion, is essentially autism,and we are working with a
psychiatrist who can't give heran official diagnosis under
Washington law, but believe shehas an autism diagnosis.
But what was my aha moment formyself?
(07:40):
So we spent two years duringthe pandemic, her behavior had
really, my daughter's behaviorhad really gotten pretty bad,
and there was a moment where,quite literally, she almost died
while having a meltdown.
We were out hiking.
This was about two and a halfyears ago, April of 2021.
She had a meltdown and wasliterally 24 inches from the
(08:02):
edge of a cliff that was over araging river that had all the
winter runoff and it was thescariest moment of my entire
life.
And she'd had some meltdownsbefore that, although I coded
them at the time as fits, likethat children are having fits,
so she was six, almost seven, atthe time.
That was a real wake up calland so we started getting her
(08:22):
into services and the next twoyears of trying to get her
services was quite horrible,quite frankly.
Some might say, well, you livenear Seattle, but Seattle is
almost three hours away fromwhere I'm at.
Spokane is also almost threehours away from where I'm at.
I am in central Washington in acommunity of about 100,000
(08:42):
people, so it definitely doesnot have the resources that a
lot of other areas do, which iswhy we are now seeking services
outside of our area.
As I was exploring and tryingto understand her needs, as I
was doing research, as I wasreading books, as I was watching
or listening to podcasts, as Iwas watching TikTok videos, as I
was watching YouTube videos, Idon't remember an exact aha
(09:06):
moment, but I know that slowly Istarted thinking like I really
think I might have autism.
What I had to do, first andforemost, and I think this is
true for a lot of people, is youhave to come to understand, you
have to get over thestereotypes that we have of
people with autism.
You have to sort of get pastthis image that you have in your
mind of, like you know, amiddle class white boy from the
(09:29):
90s who has outbursts and stufflike that.
You have to, and I use thatspecific stereotype because I've
worked with children like that,like that's not just my, you
know, that's not just what I'vebeen exposed to in media.
Again, I've worked in socialwork for 24 years.
Both my mother and my sisterare special education teachers.
My sister actually was theprimary teacher for a special
(09:52):
education preschool at our localdistrict for about three years,
working with children withautism diagnoses.
Additionally, there is ABA inthe agency at which I work.
You have this idea of whatsomebody with autism or someone
who is neurodivergent is in yourhead, and the way I thought
about myself did not in any wayfit that stereotype.
(10:14):
A lot of what that research waswas informing myself, but also
trying to understand, basically,this wasn't conscious.
It makes it sound like it wasconscious, but it wasn't
conscious.
Like I realize now, I wasslowly overcoming and
recognizing the stereotypes thatI had of somebody with autism.
I will say, though, however,that my family has sort of
(10:36):
unofficially diagnosed my dadwith autism a long time ago, my
mom, my sister and I, but I am awoman and I look very different
than my dad does.
There are some behaviors thatoverlap and I'm able to
recognize them now.
So what I thought for my entirelife was really chronic
depression and anxiety, veryserious chronic depression and
(10:57):
anxiety that I had to gettreatment for on and off my
entire life.
I've actually been on a highlevel of, although my
psychiatrist recently told me itwasn't that high of a level,
but I thought it was a highlevel of sertraline which is
Zoloft for the last nine years.
So in the spring I reallystarted to come to like, hey, I
(11:19):
think, maybe.
And I was watching a TikTokvideo of a woman who is a
therapist in Canada and she'sneurodivergent and she actually
provides a lot of counselingservices for counselors.
So that's her primary work base.
She has autistic children, butshe mentioned Embrace Autism.
It's a very kind of fun andinteractive website.
(11:40):
They built that forneurodivergent people, I love it
so much, where you could go andjust test, and so her thing was
you know, if you're curious, gosee.
So one day at work I was like,let's just see.
I went on to their website andI believe they have four or five
I don't remember exactly, butfour or five different autism
tests that are like thestandardized tests like the
(12:03):
RAADS-R and I don't rememberwhat they all are off the top of
my head, but you can go thereand you can get a lot of those
standardized tests.
And so I took all of them andall of them put me on the scale
as having autism, so much sothat there are two main
providers on that websitebecause, like, they don't just
do the testing, but they willalso do screenings where you
(12:23):
send them information andthey'll kind of let you know
what their thoughts are but alsoyou can do a full evaluation.
So the two doctors who run thatwebsite had their scores up for
each of those tests and Iscored higher than both of them,
or maybe not higher, I scored,you know, in a more autistic
range.
You know my background.
(12:43):
I've been in social work but mydegree was in psychology and I
actually did a research methodstudy while I was in school.
So standardized tests sort ofappeal to me in some ways.
I don't think that they're theend all be all, but like they
often sort of help me get overthat skeptical piece that I have
, you know, like where I believewhat my gut is saying, but like
this has been researched and itsort of just gives me that
(13:06):
extra, you know that extra piece.
That was really where I had theaha moment and then I started
talking with my family about itand my sister and my mom, like I
mentioned, are specialeducation teachers and they have
worked with children who arediagnosed with autism their
entire careers.
You know, my mom currentlyworks in a self-contained
classroom for children who willnot get regular high school
(13:29):
diplomas.
They, you know, for whateverreason, have usually it's
intellectual disabilities, butother disabilities as well.
And so her association, again,her association with autism, my
sister's association with autism, is usually around people who
also have intellectual disorders, because those are the easy
ones to catch.
So everybody in my family Ikind of let everybody know, like
I was,we were at dinner one day and it
(13:51):
was my mom and my sister, andmy partner was on board because
he has sort of self diagnosedhimself with autism and ADHD as
well.
My ex husband was there, thefather of my two children, his
wife, and I think again, liketheir response was really around
those stereotypes that peoplehave.
But nobody was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no.
(14:11):
Everybody was like, Well, youknow, do what you need to do.
I actually ended up againbecause I am ever the skeptic,
not necessarily of other peoplebut of myself.
I ended up doing a screeningthrough Embrace Autism, and so
what a screening looks like forthem is that they have you do
several more tests and then theysend you out a questionnaire
(14:33):
that's pretty long, with I don'tknow, I don't recall how many
questions, but you know 30, andI ended up writing back 25 pages
of what I could remember goingback into my early childhood.
They can't diagnose you withjust that.
Obviously you have to have ameeting, which they could do,
but I wasn't prepared to paythat extra amount, like I just
wanted them to review based onkind of the testing and then
(14:55):
what I had to say about myself.
It wasn't a diagnosis, but itcame back saying that I fit all
the criteria for, in theiropinion, I would likely fit all
the criteria for autism, andthat they would strongly
recommend that I seek out a fulldiagnosis.
So I then went forward and founda psychiatrist in my state who
(15:15):
accepts my insurance and who ispretty knowledgeable in autism,
met with her a couple times andafter the second meeting she was
like, and I gave her that finalreport that I got from Embrace
Autism, I gave her my 25 pagesof writing.
She was like, I don't have anydoubt that you have autism.
And she was like the only thingthat I wonder is, if, do you
(15:36):
have ADHD?
And I was like, oh, I don't, Ireally hadn't thought about ADHD
the way that I thought aboutautism.
And so she had me do the Ithink it's the Vanderbilt or one
of the screenings for autismand she was like I want you to,
when you do this,it was interesting how she sort
of primed me for it, because shesaid I want you to, when you're
doing this,I want you to think about not
(15:59):
just like what you DO, but whatyou WANT to do and what you STOP
yourself from doing.
And I was like, oh, that makesso much more sense.
And so because when she primedme for that, I did it and I came
out as having ADHD combinedtype, and I don't think I would
have had maybe either type if Ihad not been primed with a
thinking about what you want todo and you stop yourself from
(16:22):
doing.
And I think that that's sorelevant and important because
one of the questions on theVanderbilt is like do you have a
hard time sitting still in likemeetings or in classrooms, or
something like that.
Not primed with that I wouldhave said no, I don't have any
problem right, but primed withwhat I want to do?
Hell yeah, I have a hard timesitting in meetings and I have
to force myself and I'mconstantly doing something and
(16:44):
I'm stimming in some way duringevery single meeting,
you know what I'm saying, likewhether it's not visible, like
nobody necessarily sees it, butI cannot sit still.
I am always doing somethingunless I'm asleep.
So that's how I got to thepoint.
I actually don't have whatWashington State would call a
full diagnosis, meaning, like I,like under their DDA criteria,
(17:09):
like I don't have theirdisability criteria, I don't
have a full diagnosis.
It would require going to apsychologist, but I don't feel
the need to do that.
The diagnosis was really a lotmore for me than it was for, you
know, any sort ofaccommodations, although my
workplace is lovely, I have afantastic boss, I have a
fantastic agency that I work forand they were perfectly okay
(17:30):
taking the word of a nurse, apsychiatric nurse practitioner
with a lot of experience.
So I don't really feel the need, you know, for a full diagnosis
.
I don't need it for, you know,disability or accommodations.
I'm privileged in that way.
So that's kind of where I'm at.
That's how I got my diagnosis.
That was my process.
A lot of TikTok videos, a lotof YouTube videos, just
(17:52):
listening to people talk abouttheir lived experience and going
, oh my God, that is exactly me,you know, laughing, like
laughing almost crying, becauseyou're like, oh my God, like,
that is absolutely me, like thatis my experience.
Kristen Hovet (18:07):
It's so validating.
Trissa (18:09):
And I thought I was crazy.
Yes, exactly.
Kristen Hovet (18:11):
Yeah.
Trissa (18:11):
Like I thought I was a one off.
No, turns out there's a lot ofus, but we just have learned not
to talk about it because ofjudgment.
Kristen Hovet (18:19):
Exactly, yeah, so I have a question.
I've just been writing noteshere.
This wasn't in my list ofquestions, but I thought of it
as you were speaking.
How has your self conceptchanged since realizing that
you're autistic and that youhave ADHD?
Trissa (18:35):
Yeah, I think the biggest way that my self concept
has changed is giving myself somuch more compassion and
empathy.
You know one of the things Ijoked about when the
psychiatrist told me, yeah, Ifeel comfortable saying you fit
the diagnostic criteria forautism and you fit the
diagnostic criteria for ADHD.
And actually she said she feltI met the diagnostic criteria
(18:55):
for generalized anxiety on topof that.
She was like, autistic peopleand people with ADHD also
already have anxiety.
She was like, but she asked mea lot of questions, like parsing
out the anxiety and felt like,on top of what any sort of
normal autistic person wouldhave,
like I have additional anxiety.
I think that through a lot ofmy life I haven't given myself
(19:18):
much compassion or empathy orspace to be who I am.
I think I have a lot of reallynegative tapes about you know,
why can't you do this?
Why can't you do that?
Why is your house messy?
Why can't you get this done atwork?
Why can't you do this?
Why aren't you a better mom?
Why aren't you this, why aren'tyou that?
And I always gave grace forother people.
I always gave compassion andempathy for other people,
(19:40):
because I see how hard it hasbeen for me but that didn't
always translate back to myself.
And so over the last you knowit's pushing about six months
that I've been in this fulldiscovery process.
I mean really radically givingmyself compassion and empathy
and space to just be who I am,as I'm sure lots of late
(20:02):
diagnosed people have, like justgoing back and thinking through
so many memories and going,like you know, just even giving
my younger self grace, but alsotrying to give myself, my
younger self, the love that Iwish I had given myself at the
time, you know, like the carethat I wish I'd given myself at
the time.
I actually had a reallyinteresting realization this
(20:25):
past weekend, so you can seebehind me,
I love to craft and most of itis paper crafts, so I love
scrapbooking.
But one of the things that I dois I will get magazines, I'll
get art books, I'll getgardening books and all sorts of
other stuff, and stickers likethis, you know, right here, this
is the whole bin of stickers,you know, and I will cut stuff
(20:46):
out of books like art, and thenwhat I do is I collage it back
into books.
Feeling the glue on my handsand seeing and essentially like
I believe it's art, like itcomes back together and makes
something beautiful that I love,and I actually journal at the
same time into the books.
As I was cutting this weekend.
So my kids are with me 5050.
Their dad and I split about twoyears ago this month actually
(21:10):
but we have a good workingco-parenting relationship, so we
have the kids 5050.
My kids are 9 and 11.
I didn't say that earlier, butthey're 9 and 11, and so last
weekend wasn't my weekend.
The kids were with their dadand then my partner, he has a
son and a stepson down inTri-Cities, which is about an
hour and a half away from wherewe're at, and his ex was going
downtownand was like, hey, why don't you
just come stay at the house?
(21:30):
So I was partner-, kid-free forthree days and it was, it was
lovely.
Just the animals like you'veseen probably my dogs walking
around in the back.
So Saturday morning I'd plannedon doing all sorts of stuff and
instead I ended up going to, Iwas like, well, I'm just gonna
stop in at JOANN's and getsomething for my paper stuff,
and they ended up having a wholebunch of new papercraft stuff
(21:52):
that they haven't had in thepast, and so I was like, oh,
this just derailed my entire daybecause I will be, I will be
working with this stuff, andthen,
Yeah, JOANN's Fabrics is itsname.
Kristen Hovet (22:04):
Oh, okay.
Trissa (22:06):
Kind of like Michaels or Hobby Lobby.
So then I went to, there's aGood will two doors down and
that is where I buy the booksthat I cut out, like I buy old
art books or old craft books andthey had a stack of magazines
and I sat down on the ground andI, because they were five for a
dollar and I pulled out 50magazines like cooking magazines
(22:28):
and other magazines that hadgreat pictures in them, and then
I went home and I spent likethe next 12 hours just cutting
out.
Normally I would have hatedmyself for that, like if I had
done that I would have hated,like, HATED myself.
It would have sent me into thislike depressive episode where I
would have just been spiraling,you know, like why would you do
that?
You could have been doing x, yand z.
You could have cleaned thehouse, you could have done this,
(22:49):
you could have done that, likeyou could have gone out, you
could have like.
But because I've given myselfthat grace, like I was really
happy, like I had a really greattime just being with myself and
listening to podcasts andwatching some TV and just
cutting things out of magazinesand just being safe and
comfortable in my space.
And I had this realization thatwhen I was in my early 20s, so
(23:15):
when I was probably like 21, 22ish I must have been 20.
I graduated with my bachelor'sdegree when I was 21.
I was working three quarterstime and I was going to school
full-time and I had actuallygotten married, I was already
married.
I'd got married at 19 because Iwas raised in a very
evangelical household and likethat's what you did.
(23:35):
Yeah, so I've actually beendivorced twice.
So it was my high schoolsweetheart and I eventually had,
like you know, sort of thenormal like got married in the
normal range.
So there was a time where I didsomething very similar where I
was cutting stuff out of variousthings and gluing them in, and
I would do that whenever Iwasn't doing homework or working
and I didn't really have muchof a social life.
So I ended up, after my divorceand I moved away and I started
(23:59):
doing more of the traditionalthings that people my age did it
, like going out and drinkingand hanging out with friends,
and I codedthat time, I was like, oh, I
must have been really depressed,like I might as well just, why
does?
Who cuts stuff out of paper?
You know, who cuts out paper?
Like who does that?
Who does that?
Like what is that?
You know?
And so for the whole of my 20sand 30s just coded that as you
(24:19):
know, aberrant behavior, like Iabsolutely pathologized it.
And so the realization I had asI was like working with the
paper this weekend is like, ohmy god, this is, this is who I
am.
This is who I am, and I didn'thave the strength or the
knowledge or the ability toprovide compassion for myself
(24:41):
enough to go, at the time, 20years ago, 22, 23 years ago, to
say, no, this is really okay andthis is what I enjoy doing and
this is my safe space.
And it makes me just realize,like, how hard I pushed myself
and how highly I masked throughthe whole of the rest of my 20s
and 30s.
You know, just masked throughmy 20s and 30s.
It's a really long way toanswer your question of how I've
(25:05):
gone back.
I've gone back on so many ofthose things to rethink them.
Kristen Hovet (25:09):
I was thinking too while you were saying that,
like, Who cuts out paper?
Well, artists do.
Creative people do.
Trissa (25:18):
Exactly and I think I didn't code myself in that way.
In the same way I didn't codemyself as autistic, you know
what I'm saying?
Like they're kind of because Ithink that we discount artists
in our culture.
And it's interesting, Iactually made a TikTok recently,
at the same time I was doingthis I made a TikTok and was
like so a lot of the books thatI'm cutting out are quilting
books, because I love having thepatterns to then glue back into
(25:39):
my books and the work that someof these people who crochet and
quilt, I mean, they're just,they are, they are art pieces.
And at the same time I'mcutting out art books, like you
know from the Louvre and fromyou know the Metropolitan Museum
.
And I had this realization, Iwas like we code what women do
as crafts and we code what mendo as art, but it's still
(26:01):
beautiful regardless.
I think you're right, t hat'swhat artists do, yeah.
Kristen Hovet (26:05):
Definitely, and it takes an artist's brain to
put things together in a certainway, like not everyone can
think of those things.
So that's to me, that's anartist.
Trissa (26:15):
And that's one of the things I've also come to realize
is that, you know, mydaughter's psychiatrist had
really compared my daughter toTemple Grandin, because my
daughter has been inventing andthe things she's invented, the
things that she creates.
She has created the artworks,the structure she's built, so
she has, for example, magnettiles and even at age four she
could build these like insanelyhigh structures that went up to
(26:36):
your waist, could stay, weresturdy for days on end, you know
.
So her psychiatrist comparedher and was like, hey, you need
to go read some of the stuffthat Temple Grandin has been
doing lately around learning andhow, like some people learn in
words and some people learn inpictures.
And I also had another ahamoment, realized like, oh, I
learn in pictures, I learn inpictures and I have been living
(26:58):
in a world that teaches throughwords and I have had to
translate that in my head andactually, interestingly, that's
leading to some work.
So I manage a program where Ihave 15 staff and I'm onboarding
new leadership staff right nowand so it's actually changed the
way that I onboard my staff.
I have created a lot morevisuals for people who need to
learn in visuals.
(27:18):
It was really an aha moment forme around that.
I've been talking with somepeople who are like technical
assistants at the state levelaround the work that I do and
saying like, hey, maybe weshould really create an
onboarding manual for newsupervisors, but let's really
get some visual stuff in there,because I think I could have
saved myself so much time inthis learning process in doing
(27:39):
this work if I'd had visuals.
Kristen Hovet (27:42):
When you reached out to me, you were talking
about some challenges thatneurodivergent parents have when
parenting neurodivergentChildren.
What have you found personallyto be the most challenging in
parenting?
Trissa (27:56):
So I want to preface what I'm about to say is that I
am saying it from my perspective.
These are not things that Iexpose my daughter to, and I say
that because I see a lot ofparents of neurodivergent
children or just parents who areraising children with mental
health issues, really get beatup a lot online like, why aren't
you doing this, why aren't youdoing that?
(28:16):
I'm gonna center myself as Ianswer my questions but know
that it's not how I parent, likethese are not things that my
daughter knows, these are thingsthat I have internally
processed, if that makes sense.
So I just want to give thatcaveat.
So one of the biggest things iswhen she was having, so I
mentioned the incident where shealmost fell off the cliff and
(28:37):
she ended up having many, many,many meltdowns.
So I had enrolled her in somebehavioral therapy and their
recommendation to us was toignore her behaviors when she
was having fits and I honestlythink that that was probably the
worst advice that we had evergotten.
It was just, it was terrible,terrible advice and it went
against what I knew as somebodywho has experience working in
the field of infant mentalhealth.
(28:58):
So the concept of infant mentalhealth is this idea that, you
know, you can't use talk therapywith small children, with
children under the age of five,under the age of three.
When they talk about infantmental health they're talking
about attachment, they'retalking about shoring up the
relationship between the primarycaregiver, or primary
caregivers, and the child.
My program works with 240people in my community who are
(29:21):
children.
In my community they do homevisiting, my staff do home
visiting.
We've done a lot of trainingaround infant mental health
because that's their whole jobis to shore up that relationship
between the parent and thechild so that the child's
success will go forward withthat lens in mind.
As my daughter entered intobehavioral therapy, it went
against everything that I knewto be true about parenting and
(29:43):
what I felt in my body and in myspirit and in my mind to ignore
her when she was having ameltdown.
And when I tried to challengethe therapist on that, he just
pushed back and he was like,well, this is what the
evidence-based practice says,and so we gave up on that pretty
quickly, but the damage wasalready done.
We went from having like acouple of meltdowns a week to
(30:04):
having five or six a day.
So what I know now is that hermeltdowns almost always very
quickly sent my central nervoussystem over the edge and sent me
into meltdowns.
I didn't know it at the time.
She would melt down and then itwould send me into a meltdown,
and because I wasn't thinkingabout how to regulate myself and
what I needed to remain calm,we would cycle together
(30:26):
frequently, and I was in prettyintensive therapy at the time,
and so the therapist gave mesome good ideas about like
sometimes you do just have towalk away, or going and putting
my hands in cold water,splashing cold water on my face,
like something to get theparasympathetic nervous system
to kick in.
As I have come to understandmyself as a neurodivergent
(30:47):
person, I have come to realizethat basically through the whole
of my parenting I was nottaking care of myself at all,
not even a little bit.
And so basically, I think aboutthe early years of my
children's childhood where I wasactually working still in CPS
at the time, I was a manager andI had two young children.
I barely remember those yearsbecause I'm pretty sure I was
(31:12):
dissociated.
I was in dissociation for thewhole of their early childhood
because of it, and I absolutelyknow that that contributed to a
lot of damage in my marriage.
That eventually led to mymarriage ending, but also I held
it together pretty well for mykids.
I have some abuse history in mychildhood and what I can now
(31:32):
reflect was my parents beingneurodivergent as well and also
not taking care of their nervoussystem needs and their
self-regulation.
I knew I didn't wanna do thatwith my kids, but the problem
was is that I never got myselfback into a regulated place.
I just dissociated.
I just ran and I didn't feelanything and anything I had to
(31:53):
give went to them and work andthat was about it.
So my marriage really sufferedbecause of it, my mental health
really suffered because of it,and so, in coming to realize
that I am also neurodivergent, Iam now giving myself language
for how to recognize when I amheading into potentially a
meltdown, but I'm also givingher language to understand when
(32:16):
she might be heading into ameltdown.
And also I've been teaching mychildren to be a lot more,
have compassion for me when I'msaying, hey guys, I can't right
now, like I need space right now, and I'll say things like, in
an ideal world, our house wouldbe clean all the time and you
would have these nice meals onthe table and I would be the
(32:37):
perfect mom.
And I said, but this isn't anideal world, like I don't have
that capacity and so like I'vechosen that sometimes, yeah,
we're gonna eat a lot of hotdogs, because really that's
their safe food anyways, we'regonna eat a lot of hot dogs and
we're gonna eat a lot of mac andcheese and we're gonna have a
house that's pretty messysometimes, but that's how you
have a regulated mom who isgonna be emotionally present
(33:00):
with you.
So I think the biggest thing Iwould say in my discovery, and I
would say to parents who areneurodivergent, is it is
absolutely, like that metaphorthat we use of you're on the
airplane and the oxygen maskscome down and they say put your
mask on first and then put theirmask on.
(33:20):
I know that we overuse that.
We overuse that in my fieldquite a bit, but it is 100% true
.
If you are not taking care ofyourself, if you are not
managing yourself,self-regulating, if you're not
finding the things that you needto remain regulated, it is
going to harm your children, itis going to harm the way that
you parent them.
I have so much compassion, somuch compassion for people who
(33:45):
are no contact with theirparents, but also the parents
who have had their adultchildren go no contact with them
, because I think again, I'veworked in this field, in social
work for 24 years and I havealways been working with parents
and children and I see whereparents have really screwed up.
I see where parents have causedharm.
When I worked for CPS, Iremoved hundreds of children
from their homes.
(34:06):
I see these things and I knowthese things.
But also I can recognize, assomebody who is a parent, who
has my own mental health issues,who's neurodivergent myself,
that, like some days, it'severything you can do not to
just, quite frankly, end yourlife, and so I have so much
empathy for parents.
What I want parents to hear isyou don't get to determine how
(34:28):
your children perceive theirchildhood, and a lot of children
who have gone no contact withtheir parents will say, well,
they did this or they didn't dothat or they didn't care.
And parents will say I did, Iwas doing the best that I could.
That's not a good enough answer.
You need to sit with what it isthat you weren't able to do,
more than likely because youwere neurodivergent or you had
(34:49):
your own mental health issues oryou had your own trauma, and
all of those things wenttogether so that they
incapacitated you as youparented.
And so that's the thing is thatif you want to be as good a
parent as you can be, becausethere's no such thing as a
perfect parent by any way,shape, form, anything, is you
have to regulate yourself first.
You have to figure out how tofind ways to do that.
(35:11):
I'm speaking from a point ofprivilege.
My children are a little bitolder, 9 and 11, they don't need
the day-to-day care, but I'vebeen there.
I've been in those days wherethey need you for everything.
They need every single momentof your attention, and those are
almost impossible.
Like I said, I don't remember alot of their early childhoods
because I was just dissociatedthe whole time.
(35:31):
I know you said on here tips forlate diagnosed parents.
I think some of the tips are Italked about a 14 hour day or a
whole weekend where I didn'thave kids and I got to my own
thing, and that is a hugeprivilege.
Parents who are single parentsdon't have that option, or who
have partners who maybe don'tsupport them in the way that
they need don't necessarily havethat option.
But before that happened, I hadfound little things that got me
(35:52):
through.
As I said before, when mydaughter was melting down, one
of the things that my counselorhad recommended was to go splash
some cold water on my hands andon my face.
I have locked myself in mybedroom before when she's
throwing a fit and banging onthe door and screaming for my
attention.
But I knew in that moment that,like we were going nowhere good
, things were gonna get worseand I needed those moments to
(36:14):
regulate myself.
And so I've locked myself in myroom and crawled underneath my
bed and covered my ears and justdid what I need to like, even
for 10 minutes regulate myselfin the moment, so that I could
come back and take care of herneeds as she was having
meltdowns.
Another thing that I'm doing,and this is harder with younger
kids, but as your kids get older, one of the things that I've
(36:35):
been doing is really giving themwords to understand when
they're having nervous systemdysregulation, and that has been
amazing.
I have seen my daughter, she'llnow say, we were at Walmart I
wanna say about two months ago,getting back to school clothes,
and she got out of the cart andshe said mom, I feel dizzy, I
feel lightheaded, my stomachhurts and I feel like I'm gonna
(36:55):
pass out.
And she had never talked interms of what her body felt like
that ever before.
And I was like, okay, I thinkyou're having some sort of like
physical reaction, maybe ananxiety attack.
Let's get you,like I put her back in the cart,
like I had her sit, like shelikes to sit in the main part.
You know, I got her out to thecar, we turned on the air
conditioning, full blast, likewe got her calm ed down,
regulated, to get her what sheneeded.
(37:16):
So, giving them words, helpingthem to try and understand, so,
at the same time that you arefiguring out what your body
needs, helping them understandwhat their body needs, giving
your children recommendations,like not when they're in the
middle of a meltdown, thatdoesn't work.
You cannot tell them to calmdown or say, hey, I think this
is really, I've done that beforewhere I've like, this is
insane, like you just ripped thecouch over socks, like you just
(37:39):
had a massive meltdown becauseI couldn't find you matching
socks that felt right.
And she's literally likeripping up parts of the couch
and I'm like you can't say inthat moment, you know what I'm
saying.
But like we've seen a hugereduction in those escalations
and in those meltdowns becauseone, I've regulated myself more.
I give her the words to helpher understand what's happening
(38:02):
in her body as she's escalating,and I circle back around with
her to sort of give hertechniques, when she's calm and
not in the middle of a meltdown,to say like, hey, let's try
this next time, let's do this.
Another thing that I don't do,I don't ever, ever shame her.
I don't believe she has achoice in any of it.
I know she doesn't have achoice because I don't have a
choice.
I would also just say don't takeanything personally that your
(38:24):
children say and do.
You just cannot and you need tovalidate their experiences.
I think if I see any pattern,or if I've seen any pattern in
my social work career aboutchildren who eventually go no
contact with their parents, it'salmost always in situations
where their parents nevervalidated their experience,
never were present with them orlistened to them with what they
were feeling.
And so for me and my children,I try very hard to, even if what
(38:48):
they're saying causes meanxiety or sadness or just kicks
in my own thinking of like oh,you're a terrible mom, like
you're a bad person, like thosetapes that play in your head,
even if they say or do somethingthat kicks that in, I don't
expose them to that, I processit through myself, I regulate
myself and I validate theirexperiences, first and foremost.
Kristen Hovet (39:11):
Thank you so much .
I think you covered like a fewof my questions there, so that's
awesome.
Trissa (39:16):
Yeah.
Kristen Hovet (39:18):
In terms of things that are rewarding about
parenting a neurodivergent childas someone who's also
neurodivergent, are there anyother you know rewarding, you've
mentioned some.
Trissa (39:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
They are so smart.
They're just so smart and theysay the funniest, craziest
things and they have, you know,my daughter is the most creative
person I know.
I think she's not just anartist, she's an inventor, and
to see the things that she makes, that she comes up with in the
moment, are just.
She made herself a pair ofballet slippers out of paper and
(39:52):
duct tape two weekends ago thatwere actually laceable and I
mean obviously they're not anactual serviceable pair of
ballet shoes.
They look like ballet shoes.
The art that I have up in mybedroom is art that she made and
that she placed sort ofperfectly above my bed.
I mean, she's an artist throughand through, and to see the
beauty that she makes just ismind blowing.
(40:12):
They're both exceptionally kind.
They're just very kind children.
I do think that that is directlyrelated to being neurodivergent
.
I'm not saying that allneurodivergent people are
necessarily kind, but I do thinkthere's something about the way
that neurodivergent people seepatterns, the way that we feel
empathy.
I think there's a deep well ofempathy that I don't always see
(40:36):
in people who aren'tneurodivergent and I see that
deep, deep empathy that I reallyhave had my entire life and
what led me into social work.
They have it as well and it's abeautiful thing and they're
just funny and silly and welaugh about things all the time.
I could go on and on about thejoys, but there are many, so, so
(40:56):
, so many.
They're just fantastic kiddosto be with and I feel very
fortunate to have them in mylife and feel very honored to be
their parent.
Kristen Hovet (41:06):
Awesome.
And also I have anotherquestion.
I'm going to slightly rewordthis one from what I sent you,
but thinking about now and alsothinking back, because I know
you mentioned now that you areaware of autism and ADHD, you
can kind of go back andreimagine almost like memories
or like re-, I don't know whatthe word is, like reprocess
(41:28):
parts of yourself with this newknowledge.
So, with that in mind, what aresome autistic traits about
yourself that you love the most?
Trissa (41:37):
I love seeing patterns.
I'm very good at seeingpatterns, and one of the things
that I have been told throughoutmy entire life is oh, you're so
smart, you're so smart, how didyou see that?
How did you picture that?
And I realize now that itreally has, I don't know that it
has a whole lot to do withintelligence and I think it has
a lot more to do with how, youknow, my synaptic pathways put
together patterns and I see them.
(41:57):
And so I have a livedexperience or I've experienced
something, and then I'm able tointuit it or kind of imagine
into the future what wouldhappen.
And because of that I've beenvery successful in my career.
I've been able to be inpositions where people will come
to me for advice or formentorship because I'm able to
see those patterns.
(42:18):
I think one of the things thatalso is a pattern seeking, but
also, just like I deconstructeverything, I always ask why,
why, why, why, why, you knowwhat I'm saying, like what, why,
how, like I'm not going to justaccept what you put in front of
me.
I do have a fair amount ofprivilege in my life.
I grew up in the middle class,I'm white, I am smart, like I
(42:41):
have a lot of privilege in mylife, like we never had food
insecurity, we never had housinginsecur-, you know like I have
a lot of privilege.
So there were systems ofoppression that I was not
exposed to when I was a young,younger child, but as I become
an adult and I've been exposedto them and I understand them,
I've been able to thoroughlydeconstruct them and I
understand now how, you know,white supremacy culture
(43:02):
interacts with patriarchy,interacts with ableism,
interacts with paternalism,interacts with capitalism, and
how all of those systems ofoppression come together to
cause harm to those of us who dohave those privileges, but also
people who don't have thoseprivileges, both.
They harm everybody, you know,and so I've been able to see
that and I've done a lot of worksupporting my staff.
(43:23):
My community is 55% HispanicLatino.
I am in the poorest communityin my state, because we are a
largely agricultural community,to be able to like see those
patterns and call out thosesystems.
I love that.
I love that about myself.
I love that I can, I love thatI don't just take an answer and
go with it, like I love that Iam going to spend time and I can
(43:45):
spend time, I am able to lookat something from a million
different angles before I make adecision.
I love my creativity.
I think I'm very creative.
I love that I do have a lot ofempathy for people.
You know, my life has been,quite frankly and I think some
people think I'm beinghyperbolic when I say this, but
it is not true, like I never,ever, would have spent my life
(44:05):
working in a corporation orworking for private entities.
Never would have done it.
And I'm not saying that anybodywho does is in the wrong.
I'm not saying that at all.
Like we wouldn't, have aneconomy
if that was true, you know, butI have always been in a helping
profession and I love that.
I know I have made a differenceand I think that that deep
(44:25):
empathy that I have felt since Iwas a young child absolutely
sent me down that path.
You know, I remember being five.
One of the memories I have iswhen I was five and they were
talking about children who were,it was a Christian radio
station that my parents werelistening to and they were
talking about children, you know, starving in various places
around the world and I just, mydad tells us about how he looked
(44:47):
back and I was just like crying, like just tears running down
my face, and one of the thingsthat I think is different about
me as a neurodivergent person isthat I didn't just hear that
and go, oh, that sucks.
Like I heard that and I felt itin my body and I wondered to
myself, like why, why them andnot me?
Or why me and not them?
You know why, why?
(45:07):
There's literally nothing thatmakes me any more special than
any other human being on thisplanet other than just the luck
of my birth.
I feel that through my entirebody.
I think that deep well ofempathy absolutely is tied to
being autistic.
Kristen Hovet (45:23):
Yeah, definitely.
And the last question I have,is there anything I haven't
asked you about that you'd liketo mention?
Trissa (45:29):
I want to emphasize to just have empathy for yourself
just as you're going throughthis journey, and also don't let
people talk you out of it.
Know what's in your gut, listento your body, listen to your
feelings, do what's right foryou.
Don't cause harm, but do what'sright for you.
My social circle has becomevery small.
(45:50):
It was already shrinking preCOVID, but it is very small.
It's interesting because in thepast I've had therapists that
have coded that as unhealthy,and recently I went back into
therapy and I found aneurodivergent affirming
therapist and she asked twoquestions, what's your social
life like?
And so I filled that in, andthen the second question is how
(46:10):
do you feel about your sociallife?
And that's the second question,I've never gotten that question
before and I said I feel greatabout it!
I like where my life is at rightnow.
I'm the happiest, the calmest,the freest I've ever felt in my
entire life.
Does that mean that I don'thave moments?
Of course I still have moments.
Of course I still havemeltdowns, but by giving myself
compassion and empathy to be whoI am, I am feeling so much more
(46:35):
whole and better than I everhave.
It's wonderful that that'shappening at 42, but also a
little bit heartbreaking thatthat's happening at 42, almost
43.
Kristen Hovet (46:46):
A huge thank you to Trissa for being my guest on
The Other Autism podcast.
And that's all I have for youtoday.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Until next time, bye.
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