August 12, 2024 • 70 mins
What if your greatest ordeal became the key to your personal transformation? Join us as we sit down with Gloria Landano, the inspiring author of "Flourish in Captivity," who recounts her harrowing experience of being kidnapped in Colombia at 25. Held in darkness for 90 agonizing days, Gloria opens up about the psychological torment she endured and how the thought of her three-year-old daughter became her beacon of hope. Get ready to explore the depths of survival instincts and the unexpected emotional bonds formed during such traumatic experiences.
We dive into the emotional aftermath of Gloria’s captivity, discussing the profound sense of abandonment when ransom demands go unmet and the lasting impact on her mental health. Gloria bravely shares the complexities of Stockholm syndrome and the long road to unlearning maladaptive behaviors developed as survival tactics. This intense and candid conversation sheds light on the ongoing struggles with trauma, fear, and anxiety, long after physical freedom is regained, and how these experiences can shape one's sense of identity and relationships.
Finally, Gloria's journey of healing takes center stage as she reveals the transformative power of forgiveness and self-love. Learn how a pivotal forgiveness retreat helped her end a 14-year abusive marriage and embark on a path of personal growth. We discuss the importance of recognizing true, unconditional love, breaking the cycle of suffering for future generations, and rebuilding one's life with passion and freedom. Gloria’s story is a testament to resilience and the boundless potential for personal transformation even in the darkest of times. Tune in for an episode that will inspire and uplift, offering profound insights into healing from trauma and embracing the journey to self-discovery.
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https://www.erinandersonthetraumacoach.com/ClarifyandCreateBoundaries
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the
Other Side of the Struggle.
I'm really excited, guys,because today I have another
author with me, gloria Landano,and her book is Flourish in
Captivity.
And as I've been sitting herechatting with Gloria and about
her story and about her healingjourney overcoming Stockholm
(00:24):
syndrome, and about her healingjourney overcoming Stockholm
syndrome, it's been just anabsolutely amazing story, and I
absolutely had to have this inthis podcast for you, because I
know a lot of you are dealingwith maybe not as as severe as
what Gloria has gone through,but definitely some some
(00:48):
Stockholm syndrome yourselves,and so I really wanted her on, I
really wanted her to talk aboutthis, and so I want to welcome
Gloria to the podcast.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Erin, thank you so much for inviting me here, and
it's an honor to be able toshare my story to people that it
will change their lives andmaybe understand a little bit
what they're going through.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yes, absolutely.
So let's go ahead and diveright into this.
You told me your story and,honestly, I have been like, oh
my gosh, like everything you'vegone through, right, like it is
so traumatic.
But like, tell a little bitabout your story, like what
(01:36):
you've been through, and thenlike, what are some of the
things that are that you'redoing to bring you out of this?
Because it's it's intense.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It is definitely intense.
It is.
It is.
It is intense as a complextrauma.
And what happened was when I was25 years old, I was kidnapped
in my country, colombia, andthey put me in the trunk of a
car and they put me in a roomfor 90 days in the dark and in
that, in the beginning of thatsituation, it was like very
(02:14):
traumatic and a lot of, a lot ofanxiety, like nervous, your, my
body and my mind was all over.
My mind was spinning.
I didn't understand andcomprehend where I was, why I
was doing there, why me?
And the question was why me,why me, why me?
(02:35):
And mad.
I was mad to life, I was mad toGod.
I was mad to a lot of stuffbecause I was in that situation,
god.
I was mad to a lot of stuffbecause I was in that situation
and in the beginning, when theytold you they're going to kill
you if your family, they're notgoing to pay because they
kidnapped me.
(02:55):
So they told me you arekidnapped, you know that you're
kidnapped and I said why youguys kidnapped me?
And then they said well,because we know your family have
a little bit of money, so weneed money, so that's the easy
way for us.
That's what they said, and Iknew about kidnapping stuff
because in my country is acountry that is a little violent
(03:17):
and you see those cases moreoften than in other countries.
So when they told me I waskidnapped, I said, oh my God,
like oh, this is serious,because a lot of people don't
come back from being kidnappedor they torture you on a way
that, for example, the familywants to see if you are alive.
(03:38):
They cut your finger or cut apiece of your body to show the
family that you are alive andalso to put the family on like,
oh my God, we need to do thisfast, because then they're
touching the person and they'regoing to kill her eventually.
So it's like a psychological,like I would say, game and you
(04:04):
are kidnapped and your familyautomatically also get kidnapped
into the same situation,because it's like overwhelming
for both.
It's overwhelming for it wasoverwhelming for me that I was
kidnapped and I don't knowwhat's going to happen to me in
the future, and was veryoverwhelming for my family that
they don't know where I was.
Yeah, in that time I have athree-year-old daughter that in
(04:29):
the morning that day that cameat me in the morning before I
went to school, I left mydaughter in the daycare and when
they came at me in theafternoon, like 5.45 pm, for me
was like oh, who's going to pickup my daughter?
I was always worried about mydaughter and my daughter alone
(04:50):
was the one who kept me alive inthe entire process, because if
I didn't have a daughter Iprobably wouldn't care what's
going to happen to me.
But going in through that, in 11days in in my cleanup, it got
to a point that I couldn't cryanymore.
(05:11):
I couldn't feel anything.
It was like it was somethingdisappeared from me.
It was like, okay, I'm in thissituation, I accept the
situation.
But before I got to thatconclusion, I had something
powerful that talks to me but Ididn't understand.
(05:33):
Like Gloria, this is what it is.
You have to accept the realityand just be.
And then I said well and Istopped.
I said well and I stopped, likecrying stuff.
And then the mind started tochange and the first 11 days
your mind is like in flight orflight, if I fight or flight.
(05:57):
And then you like in survivalmode the entire time.
The three months is in survivalmode, but at 11 days, when you
just reach the point you don'thave no more energy to cry, you
have no more energy for anything.
The survival mode starts tochange on.
Okay, how I'm going to survivethis situation, how I'm going to
(06:22):
maintain my life safe in thissituation.
And I start okay, let me begrateful and let me be kind, you
know, let me use the kindness,but it's nothing like I knew
what to do.
It came alone.
Because you want to protectyour life, because they are
(06:43):
there, was telling me, they wasgonna kill me all the time.
If your family don't pay, we'regonna kill you.
If your family don't pay, we'regonna sell you.
If your family don't pay, we'regonna take you to the gorillas.
In the gorillas, it's anorganization that live in the
mountains and they don't care ifyou stay one, two, three, four,
five years.
(07:04):
So it was like constantly,constantly on the border of
panic and nervousness.
My nervous system was off, soit was constantly all the time.
And that survival mode that isso tiring, it takes everything
from you, but then your bodygets used to and to live like
(07:28):
that is awful.
So when I started telling themoh, thank you for the water,
thank you for the food, thankyou for taking me more to take a
shower.
Thank you for everything.
To take a shower.
Thank you for everything,everything.
Then I started to see that atthe beginning was like oh, what
(07:49):
is woman is telling?
What is girl telling us?
Oh, thank you for everythingand the condition that she is in
.
And then I saw that the energystarted to shift with the
kindness and the guys was likemore nicer, and then I started
developing more into theStockholm syndrome.
(08:12):
The Stockholm syndrome Stockholmsyndrome and I started to see
them differently, not my enemies, it was more okay, I need to
survive.
I need to be friends with them.
I need to survive.
I need to be friends with them.
I need to survive.
I probably need to seduce oneof them because it always was
like.
It was always like men and Isaw one of the guys.
(08:37):
When you are in survival mode,you are super intelligent and
you have like superpowers andyou started like to read and to
understand each person that haveyou in captivity.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And in my case it was four men and I can't describe.
I never see their faces becausethere was always cover.
So I only see the eyes.
And so my five senses startedto amplify.
So I, I see the soul.
You know, know, the eyes is thewindow of the soul.
So I was dealing only only withthe eyes and the window of the
(09:13):
soul.
So the kindness went throughthat, yeah, and I started to
learn, like how each one smells,how each one's talk, the sound
of the voice, the energy of thevoice.
Who was who?
Like I discovered who was theleader of the organization.
(09:34):
I also discovered who was theone in the pyramid, the one in
the bottom, like the worker, andI start like understanding that
.
But the survival mode get meinto that Like, okay, we need to
survive, we need to see.
And then I start like, oh, Isee this guy is kind of quiet
(09:55):
and kind of reserved.
I want to start seducing thisguy.
Then I started like hi, hi, howare you?
Good morning more, like more,extra nice.
And the guy started to engageand then I said, oh, I do have a
power, like women have thatpower to seduce.
And I start like, oh, you smellgood.
(10:17):
Oh, when you come in, oh, thankyou for the food, thank you for
this.
And then the guy started likebringing me more different foods
, more attend, what I need.
And then I say, okay, this ismy, my target for me to survive
and for me to to leave.
And then I involved emotionallywith him and sexually also with
(10:40):
him, and I got what I need.
I got like he said to me, I'mgoing to save you, no matter
what.
That was my purpose, and ifyour family don't pay, I take
you with me.
So that was my, my, my purpose.
But inside of me I was sayingno, I don't, I don't want, I
(11:02):
don't want to be with this guy.
I'm just using this guy for meto survive.
And then something weirdstarting to happen, like I start
feeling love for him and thenlike trying to protect them and
like trying to help them howthey can talk to my family for
(11:24):
them to get the money that theyneed.
But I was like doing that, like, okay, my family needs to
understand that I'm trying tonegotiate the kidnapping side
and I don't want my family topay more of what they are asking
for.
So my family didn't understandthat, but I already have the
people inside of.
You know, family didn'tunderstand that, but I already
(11:48):
had the people inside of youknow a you know different with
me.
Because there was one situationDecember 18, 1997, that my
family requests they want to seeif I was alive.
My family say we don't havemoney to pay for it, we don't
have money to pay for it, we'renot going to pay, and God bless
(12:08):
you and your daughter and goodhands and we have nothing to do
with this.
And for me, after two monthshere and that, it was like I got
the I feel abandoned and I said, wow, how my family can do this
to me.
But I didn't know what washappening on the other side,
(12:31):
right right, and I got mad to myfamily for a long time because
of that.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And I never understand why they did that.
It was for me like a roulette,like, okay, if what, what
happened?
If my kidnappers, if I didn'tdo the work that I was doing,
the kidnappers will, will killme in in in the moment, because
that's what they said oh, youhear, mother, you know a big
(12:59):
word and and we're gonna killyou because you hear what your
family is saying.
I can't understand your family,why they're saying that, blah,
blah.
They was mad and I was goinginto panic attack, like, okay,
this is serious, they're goingto kill me or they're going to
sell me.
(13:19):
It was like something like Icould comprehend.
I think the only people canunderstand this is people that
be in captivity or people thatare being in war.
Yeah, it's something that, likeit, take your essence and takes
everything from you.
Is that desperation of wantingto leave and to not feel that
(13:45):
they're going to kill you.
And because I had alreadyworking in the kindness, the guy
that I have the connection, theguy said wait, wait, wait, wait
, wait.
Let's, let's pause here, let's,let's pause here.
See, she's having, you know, abreakdown, a nervous breakdown.
Let's's, let's wait.
And they live, they leave.
(14:07):
And then I said, oh, my god,they're gonna kill me.
So the guy I would say I wouldsay in this, in this podcast, my
guy.
He came in and say don't worry,hey, we're gonna see what we,
what we can do, but I don't, Idon't want you to get killed.
So for me it was okay if Itrust this guy or not, but that
(14:27):
was the only option.
I have to trust the guy, yeah.
And then I have to do some likecart letters to my family
saying that please don't pay themoney and all that stuff.
And something also happens whenyou're in captivity.
When you're in captivity, yourphysical body is kidnapped but
(14:51):
your mind is free.
So you have ideas and thesurvival mode gives you this
sensation of how you're going tosurvive the situation.
But when you get out from thekidnap, your body is free by
your mind out to kidnap rightaway because you already suffer
like a complex trauma.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, you go through a lot in a very short time, your
brain is like trying to say, ok, I don't want that to happen
again, and so it like it almostkind of collapses in on itself
to make sure it doesn't happenagain.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, yeah, I get it Exactly, sure it doesn't happen
again.
Yeah, yeah, I get it Exactly.
It's very hard to understand,like how the mind, like how the
mind can trick you so quicklyand in one moment you are like,
oh, thriving with your mindbecause you're trying to survive
, and then the next hour thatrelease you, your mind gets in
(15:44):
panic and gets like, oh, my God,oh, I thank God I get out from
this and I don't want thishappen to me again.
So I got scared for everything.
I got scared for the night.
I got scared to be in the dark.
I got scared to be alone.
I got scared to walk outside.
I got scared for everything.
I got scared for everything.
And also I had the.
(16:04):
I have this like abandoned,abandoned shit, abandonment, you
know thing.
Then I have the, the rejection,and I have all these kind of
issues that the, the kidnapsituation got me into.
So I was a hot mess,emotionally a hot mess.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yes, yes, yes, I mean , and it makes sense, Like you
would be right, because that'ssuch a complex trauma and that's
such a big thing to be dealingwith and like, granted, I don't
think there's I don't know, butI don't think any of my
listeners have gone into quitethat complex of a trauma, right,
(16:48):
but, but you're right, you're,you're so right, like what ends
up happening, like when wefinally get out of that
situation, is our body becomesfree but our mind goes right
into captivity because youramygdala is just on fire, like
this is just what happened, likeholy heck, like I don't want
that to happen again.
And so you're constantlywatching your back, you're
(17:10):
constantly like and like, wheredo I need to run?
And so it puts you almost inthis fight, fight, freeze or
fawn response on a consistentbasis.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
You know yes, and and to heal it takes a long time.
And it took a long time for mebecause when I got released, my
parents didn't have theeducation to understand how bad
I was, so I didn't have atherapy right away I didn't.
(17:41):
So I was running in survivalmode the entire time and after I
got released, like 10 monthsafter, I couldn't live anymore
in my country.
I feel like I was kidnapped andI was continuing to be
kidnapped because my fatherdidn't want me to go anywhere.
If I go to the supermarket, itwas with four or five people and
(18:04):
it was like who can live likethis?
So I was like I still keen upand with my family.
My family also was keen up in away.
And I run to this country insurvival mode and that was make
me successful in the job or thework I did, because I came to
(18:29):
this country.
When you're an immigrant, youcome to this country, you need
to survive.
So I was in survival mode.
So already I was on in survivalmode.
So for me to scale in the joband whatever I was doing in the
job and whatever I was doing, itwas quickly, but mentally,
emotionally, I was a mess.
I was like very defensive, verytoxic, nobody can tell me
(19:01):
anything because I just slap onit like answer in the wrong way.
My relationship with people wasterrible.
The relationship that I hadwith my partner because I did
have different partners it wasterrible.
And it because I didn't havethe help to deal with the PTSD,
(19:22):
because PTSD is complex too,ptsd you don't know when it's
going to come up, because youcan't be, like you know,
watching TV and something comeout that triggers you and then
you react.
So I was reacting, I was veryreacting to a lot of stuff until
one day I said, wow, I'm reallynot.
(19:47):
I'm not really good at what I'mdoing, like emotionally, my
relationship with my family, therelationship with everybody.
I hate my family for a longtime because I never hear their
story, I never hear their sideof what happens, when they have
to say they don't have money.
So I was mad to them, I didn'twant to talk to them for a long
(20:12):
time.
And somebody told me one dayGloria, if you really want to
succeed in life and be better,you have to forgive your family
and talk to them and be closerto them.
And I said, no, they do this tome.
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then I had to sit down withmy father and ask him why you
(20:33):
say this, dad, you have no moneyand I feel that you just left
me there and I feel that youguys don't care about me.
And I feel that you guys don'tcare about me.
And I remember that day was ahealing one of the most healing
process I already did because hestarted to cry and he said well
(20:55):
, we have to take medication forus to be able to say that,
because we don't want you to, wedidn't want you to, nothing
happens to you to, we didn'twant you to, nothing happens to
you.
But the person who was incharge to deal like the military
, the person who's in charge todeal with the people that are
kidnapped, he told us what to do, because we don't know what to
(21:16):
do in the negotiations withthese people.
So the authority told my fatherand my mother you have to say
you don't have no money.
And my father was asking to theguy who was in charge are you
sure?
Are you sure I cannot do this?
And the guy said well, you haveto take medication if you cannot
do this, because she needs to.
(21:38):
We need to try to fool thekidnappers and make them think
that this is not a case here sothey can release you.
And then said I said well, well, that was.
I was lucky that these guysdidn't do anything to me, but it
was a possibility for, likethey're gonna they was they
(22:00):
wanna they're gonna kill me inthe moment.
So, having that conversationwith my parents, it was powerful
, because I just run with mystory, I just run with my side,
and because I was emotionallyill, I was selfish to listen to
anyone and then the StockholmSyndrome started to reflect in
(22:22):
my relationships.
So tell me, about that startedto reflect in my relationships
because I start to get attachedto guys in survival mode and,
okay, this guy I don't feel Idon't, I don't feel that I have
the capacity to stay in this ina economic wise.
(22:43):
I don't know if I can, if I cansupport myself.
So I think this guy can help me.
So I got attached to him and Iwas happy to with him because he
was providing, I was providingto, but in my mind didn't recall
that I can do this by myself.
(23:04):
In my mind didn't recall that Ican do this by myself.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I need, I need it, I needed him.
So I'm curious do you feel likeyou know, with everything
you've gone through, becausethis is just like such a wow
story, you know, like, like,what you went through is just so
hard yes, right, like just sohard, yes, right, it like so
incredibly hard?
Do you feel like, because ofwhat you went through in the
(23:31):
captivity, that, um, that iswhat taught you that you could
not do it by yourself, cause,really, you couldn't get out of
the situation by yourself.
You had to form a bond with oneof your captors, like like I
see that right.
Or cause that was your safety,like they had to be your safety,
(23:54):
yeah, right.
And so you found you form thisbond with your, with your captor
, because he was the only onethat could provide you that safe
passage out.
Do you feel like that is thepiece that filtered over into
that relationship, these nextrelationships, because you
(24:14):
realized or you believed thatyou couldn't do it yourself
because of what happened?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yes, 100%, believed that you couldn't do it yourself
because of what happened.
Yes, 100.
I I doubt myself many timesbecause of that.
Because, yes, a lot of peoplecan say, wow, you're so strong,
you survive your survivor and,yes, you have no choice.
But it comes with thatSomething so ingrained on you
(24:48):
like they change completely thechemical of your brain.
It changed a lot of stuff aboutyou.
You, when you get kidnapped,you are one person.
When you get out, you areanother, completely person.
So you lost your identitybecause if they force you, it
forced you to be different.
(25:10):
Yeah, it's not like, oh, I'mgonna go get kidnapped because I
want to change no, thesituation.
Make you change a lot of stufffrom you that you don't even
understand.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah Well, you know I say this all the time that,
like trauma, and especiallycomplex trauma, you know it
teaches you like you're alwayslearning things, your brain is
always pulling things in, and sowhen you go through a complex
trauma, your brain is like onhyper learn right, and you
explain that like it's, it's so,so like tapping into almost
(25:45):
more than what you wouldnormally use, you know, to keep
yourself safe and to keepyourself in in these situations.
But you learn certain things ina complex trauma or any type of
trauma, that actually when you,when you take them into a
normal life, it makes itanything but normal, because
(26:08):
trauma teaches you things thatactually do not work for a
normal life.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yes, and, like I said , it's difficult to make the
changes right away.
It's like three months in panic, three months on survival mode,
three months in darkness, threemonths trying to survive.
(26:35):
You don't have no rest.
Even I remember when I go tosleep.
No rest, even I remember when Igo to sleep.
I wake up in the middle of thenight and start to cry.
It's a constant three months ofyou crying and constantly worry
, constantly.
Every time they opened our door, what are they going to do to
(26:58):
me?
Me, every time they came inwith those guns, is is living in
the, in the border of the edgethe entire time.
So when you get released, youlive like that yeah and how long
is gonna take that to for youto realize that you it's not
anymore.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
It's different than everybody yeah for me it takes a
long time yeah, well, it wouldbecause, like I said, you, even
in three months, I mean, youpull in, you pull in a lifetime
of information in that amount oftime, yeah right, and you have
to.
So you know, like you talkedabout like forming a bond with
(27:41):
your captor and and like, in asense, being in captivity with
your future relationships too,like you, you kind of looked for
those, those, those things,because you realize that there's
actually a safety, yes, in thecaptivity, right, and like
that's it's.
It's insane to say that tosomebody you know, like that
(28:03):
hasn't been in your situation,but you felt safer because you
actually knew what you couldcontrol in that moment right,
right, yes and so you startlooking for that in your
partners.
So tell me about, like, healingfrom this type of Stockholmholm
syndrome like it sounds likelooking for the actual truths is
(28:26):
is what started to shift?
So start telling me, like howchanging because I know right
now you're not in a relationship, which I think is such a good
thing for you, especially right,right, yes, because of these
things that you've learned aboutrelationships but where are you
at right now in healing theStockholm Syndrome?
(28:48):
Like how did you start workingthis out of your mind, your body
and your nervous system?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
I got into realization five years ago that
I never loved anybody.
Realization five years ago thatI never loved anybody and every
single relationship I was in itwas a survival mode for me, to
(29:15):
feel safe.
And I, when you are beingkidnapped in Stockholm syndrome,
you lose your identity.
So I also feel that I don't.
I didn't have identity.
So I also feel that I don't.
I didn't have identity in myrelationships and also I didn't
have my self-esteem was low andI I've been very successful,
(29:47):
very successful in business, butvery not not that successful in
my relationships, because thatwas my, you know, my safety,
survival mode was there.
So the last relationship it wasI was attracting a lot of
narcissist people and I alsoquestion myself okay, so I'm a
narcissist too in a way, becauseI'm attracting a narcissist.
But I'm also okay with anarcissist.
I can deal with the narcissistBecause if I deal with the
kidnapper, I can deal with anysituation that was in my mind.
(30:09):
So six years ago I said no.
Five years ago I said no, Icannot, I don't feel authentic,
I don't feel myself, I'mdoubting myself all the time.
This relationship that I hadwith my husband for 14 years is
horrendous.
I don't trust.
(30:30):
And the weird thing I got thesepartners that I can't trust.
They do always something for menot to trust.
So I have I started to havefrom kidnapping I have trust
issue, so I was attracting trustissues.
So the last, the last person,he did he like break my core in
(30:53):
pieces.
And for me to get up from thatit took me almost 10 years, 10
years for me in therapy, 10years for me to understand.
(31:14):
For me, 10 years it was likemore of the more of the more
same thing.
It was like more of the more ofthe more same thing Betray,
humiliation, not trusting.
And I said no, I'm going tofinish this relationship.
Five years ago I was in fear,like, oh my God, now what?
(31:35):
I'm going to divorce, I'm notgoing to have money enough to
support myself.
I don't know if I can, if I canwork again.
I'm in my 48, because I decidewhen I five years.
I decide when I was 47, 48.
I don't, I don't, I don't havemy age, 48, 49, oh my god, what
(31:56):
I'm gonna do myself.
I'm too old to restart my life.
And then the conversationstarted, like you know.
But I already lived with himfor 40 years, not trusting him,
you know.
But I feel okay here and maybeI don't talk about this subject
(32:18):
to him because every time I talkto this subject to him he get
mad at me and he scream on meand he gets like weird with me.
So if I, if I don't talk aboutthat, that bothered me, I
probably can't avoid a fight.
So what I was doing it wassurviving and accepting all the
the stuff that he, he was doingto me.
(32:40):
He was very sarcastic, helaughed about me and I got very
mad when he do all that kind ofstuff and I got into very verbal
verbal abuse.
He verbal abused me.
So we got into verbal abuse.
We got into also physical abusebecause he said to me one day
(33:02):
oh, you are nothing and youcannot do anything, and he
pissed me off so much.
And then we got into physicaland we called the police and all
the stuff and I said, no, Icannot live here anymore.
If I stay one more time here,we probably one of us we're
going to kill each other.
Because, I'm not going to.
(33:23):
I wasn't the point that I wasnot going to tolerate any more
from him.
So I have to make the decision,and the decision was 10 years
ago.
One of my friends told me let'sgo to a forgiveness retreat for
four days.
And that forgiveness retreatfor four days, and that
(33:43):
forgiveness retreat, it was thebeginning of my transformation.
But it was like it's not.
Like you go for four days andyou come completely different.
No, it's just you just startpeeling.
You just start peeling what youhave to work.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
So I started to change and I started to see that
I was not in the right placewith the right person in the
right moment.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
So what did you learn about forgiveness that shifted
things for you.
That was the turning point.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Forgiveness for me is the the most powerful tool that
exists for you to heal anything.
Because when you have, like, afight or you're angry to someone
, you have that energy on youand you you have.
(34:38):
You feel like you're heavy,you're heavy, you're heavy, you
think, that energy on you andyou you have.
You feel like you're heavy,you're heavy, you think that
things don't go well and everytime you think about that person
you feel angry and mad andupset, and so your chemicals in
your body start again, over andover and over, you know,
damaging your body, damagingyour mind.
(35:01):
So forgiveness for me is thetool number one.
When I did the forgiveness tomy father and my mother, it was
like wow, a lot of miracles arestarting to happen for me.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Because it opens up the door of truth, right,
correct, yes, yeah, yes of truth, right, correct?
Speaker 2 (35:28):
yes, yeah, yes.
So then I had to do the.
I already did the uh, theforgiveness to the kidnappers
before, before I leave the,before I leave the kidnap,
because I told them thank you somuch for everything like that,
thank you so much for everything.
I don't feel anything, you know, in case of you, but I didn't
know.
I have a Stockholm syndrome,but when I get out it was so
(35:50):
ironic Like I didn't feel badthings about them because they
didn't kill me, they didn'ttorture me, they didn't do
anything.
But I took a long time with myfamily, mad because of what they
said.
So it's an ironic thing.
I should be mad to thekidnappers longer, and not
(36:12):
longer with my family.
So it's something that youdon't know why things happen
that way.
So, forgiveness, I forgive thekidnappers, I think about them.
It doesn't feel anything likemad or nothing.
I forgive my father and mymother.
I ask for forgiveness too,because I'm, you know, sorry for
everything I feel about themand my last relationship, my
(36:37):
ex-husband also.
I did also a process offorgiveness, writing letters of
forgiveness and also telling himto forgive me of thinking all
those bad things about him andhe also was.
He apologized to me and also heasked for forgiveness to me.
But that one took a little bitlonger.
(37:00):
With him it was like, yes, wedid that.
But then I feel later, yearslater, that I still have things
bad feelings about him becausewhat he did to me so I got the
decision I said I'm gettingdivorced the two first years was
very emotionally distraught.
(37:27):
I got a little bit of depression, a lot of anxiety too.
I don't know what's going tohappen.
I have to change my car, I haveto change my house, I have to
change the way I'm living.
I was living very, very goodand then I still living very
good, but it was a big changefor me and I know a lot of women
(37:49):
are.
They stay in relationships tonot lose this status.
And in they stay inrelationships, they said,
because they're kids.
But they don't know when youstay in a relationship, that is
that bad.
You also damaging your kids.
And that's what happens to mymom and my father.
(38:10):
My mom stayed with my fatherfor 33 years and I saw a
horrendous relationship, toxic,like I was saying eight years
old when I was eight years old.
I don't want that.
Oh, I don't want that.
And guess what?
I repeat the story.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, cause that's what you saw,
that's what that was, yournormal.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
And so we can sit there and say like I don't want
that.
But until we actually see whatthat is and like the patterns of
the that, like that's exactlywhat we, what we do, because our
brain is already programmedinto those patterns, you have to
absolutely reprogram andunprogram, in a sense, your
brain so that way, you know, youdon't keep following these same
(38:57):
you know symptoms and thesesame patterns.
So you know, going back to thestockholm syndrome, right,
because you know, you're right,like a lot of women do have a
fear to leave.
Right, because you know, foryour kidnapper, you know,
attaching to him, that was yoursafety Right.
(39:18):
Attaching to your husband, itwas some type of safety Right,
even though, even though he waslike volatile, like there was
the financial safety, there wassome sort of stability that we,
that you wanted.
Right, yes, yes.
And at some point you had tosay to yourself actually, the
stability that I want isn't whathe has to give.
(39:41):
The stability I want is yes, Iwant this financial stability,
but I also want.
The stability I want is yes, Iwant this financial stability,
but I also want emotionalstability, I want mental
stability, I want physicalstability, right, and we start
looking at all the areas of ourlife that we need stability in.
So, you know, what would yousuggest then to a woman who is
(40:01):
dealing with the Stockholmsyndrome, who is struggling to
leave because she's still inthat space of you know what?
I love him, right, I feelconnected to him.
Like what would you tell her?
Like one of the number onethings you've got to realize?
Speaker 2 (40:19):
We think, when we are in relationships like that, we
think we love them.
It's not love.
That's not love.
It's love for them, becausethey think that probably that's
what they see before and theyprobably are used to that, but
that's not love.
(40:39):
I mean somebody that betrayedyou or somebody that humiliate
you, or somebody that treat youbad and that humiliate you,
somebody to treat you bad andand verbal abuse you in many
ways.
Do you think that is love?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Not at all.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Not at all.
But for them, they think, isthat.
And I thought, when I waskidnapped, I feel love for this,
for this kidnapper, and Ithought I I was in love with my
husband for 14 years and I said,no, this is not true, this is
not the love, because I sawpeople that have good
(41:15):
relationships and they have goodmarriages.
Of course, every marriage havetheir own stuff, but some people
have very healthy relationshipsand for me it was so hard to
believe that, for me to.
If you, if you come and say tome, gloria, I know I have a good
relationship, we love, wetravel, we do this and stuff and
(41:38):
yes, we do have our stuff andwe resolve things quickly I
don't believe you.
I was in that place, yeah, right, why?
Because it's based on myexperience, yeah, and based on
what I see.
So what I told to women thatthey think they love the person
who abused you that's not love.
(42:02):
That's not love.
They need to get out of thatscenario and start to learn
about love and see if it'sreally what you understand about
love, if it's really whatyou're receiving, because we
(42:22):
cannot say that love is this wayor this way.
No, let's find out what is areal relationship.
What is love?
Unconditional love, love, 100%sure Love is not the person who
abused you.
That's not love.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
No.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
No.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
No, Because you can't give what you don't have right.
And whatever that person isgiving is what they have.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yes, and always the abuser is being abused.
So if they've been abused, theybecome abusers.
Or they abuse them or they areused to.
They can go into routes.
They like people to abuse themand they're okay there, or they
(43:12):
become abusers.
Yes, so when women are in arelationship with an abuser, the
two people are completelyemotionally ill Either way.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
And mentally to some degree, oh yeah yeah absolutely.
And you know, and again mysweet listeners, I mean we're
not here to say that you'rementally ill or anything like
that, but it is what she'ssaying is true, right, because
when, when we stop, when we slowdown and we sit there and we're
like what is actually true here?
(43:46):
Right, that's us connectinginto love, because love is truth
, right?
Right it absolutely is truth.
Truth is also seeing the verybest in yourself, like, yeah,
you might see like what thisperson can do and like what
their potentials is, and maybeyou might love that perception
(44:06):
and you think to yourself, I canhelp them get to that
perception.
But the truth of the matter isis it's not up to you to help
somebody else take action.
You can't do that.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
We cannot be saviors.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
No, we are not the savior.
We cannot be saviors.
We are not the savior.
And this is why forgiveness isso important is because it is
literally giving up, like whatis so hard in our lives, to the
saving.
Now, if you don't believe inthe savior, then you've got to
really take a look at what yourhighest form of love is right,
(44:40):
exactly yes you've got to take alook at.
You know, what is it out therethat loves me so purely because
it sees like the actual, thetrue version of me, Right.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
And we're not talking about just, you know, living a
mundane lifestyle, like actuallya glorious version of you,
right, that sees the best, bestbest of you.
What is out there that's movingheaven and earth, the energies
and everything like that, foryour best interest?
What is out there that'sliterally taking and I love, I
(45:21):
love this analogy that's taking,a banana grown in Ecuador.
You know, knowing that thatbanana grown in Ecuador is going
to be given to you from yourgrocery store, like, understands
where that path is headed, putsthe exact nutrition in that
banana that you need for yourbody, right, sends it to your
(45:46):
grocery store so you can buy andeat it.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Right, that's what we're talking about when we say
the highest form of love it'swhatever it is that's out there
that has your back so incredibly, right, right.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
For example, when you know, when women have a
Stockholm Syndrome and have anabuser, when the abuser shows a
little bit of attention, alittle bit of love, like, for
example, oh I like your haircuttoday, that woman needs to want
(46:20):
that more, not so little,because that's what abusers do.
They when they see that theperson the women is like don't
want anything and they are, thewomen are seeing the true about
the whole thing they know thatthe woman is changing.
so what's happening is startingto, you know, say nicer things
(46:44):
to her.
Because women tends to havealways a hope.
Because we are not the womenthat we go in a relationship and
, for whatever reason, we justend and abort the relationship.
We work the relationship.
We try.
We also suggested our partnerslet's go to the therapy, couple
(47:07):
therapy.
We're always looking forsolutions.
But when the viewers see thewomen is going another way, the
viewers start like, oh, I likeyour haircut, or starting to be
nice for a week.
And when the women say, oh, oh,my God, I'm so happy.
Now I don't need to make thedecision, I don't need to go
(47:28):
anywhere.
He's changing.
He's not changing.
He's chasing you to stay.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
He's placating.
For him to abuse you more, yeahit's placation, yes, it's
absolute placation, and you needto understand that, because
somebody that truly loves you isalso consistent.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Consistent.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Right, yes, it's not this up and down roller coaster
of a relationship where you'refeeling like you're a yo-yo.
You know, every time yourstring gets pulled, and that's
what that is is yanking yourchain right, yes, and thinking,
oh okay, now I have a little bitof hope.
String gets pulled, and that'swhat that is is yanking your
chain right, yes, and thinking,oh okay, now I, now I have a
little bit of hope.
That's actually the sickestgame somebody can play, because
(48:15):
they know what you need, theyknow what you desire, they know
what they need to do, but theyrefuse to do it unless they're
playing a game with you, unlessthey feel that they are losing
you.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
I'm going to tell you a story that happens to me.
When my last husband the day Isaid to him I don't want, I want
a divorce I went to Costa Ricato live for three months by
myself and in that process I wasprocessing, like to be alone,
to see if I was doing the rightdecision, and all that stuff.
10 days before I was comingback to the States he started
(48:57):
being nicer and he started like,yes, we should work the
relationship.
I'm so happy.
And I started like, oh my God,I'm so happy.
I'm so happy and I start like,oh my God, I is so good.
(49:24):
These three months I was out,he really find out about my
value and he loved me and allthis stuff.
Somebody that is not realcannot hold for more than two
weeks.
When somebody is not giving youthe real love, the real thing
about the person, authentic, itcannot hold that for too long.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Of course two weeks after that back to what you guys
were at.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Back to the same thing and I said to that day, I
said you know what?
I'm calling my lawyer torestart the process Because I
stopped the process.
Because he said I want you tostop the process, let's think
about it.
Blah, blah, blah.
And the two weeks after I comeback, when he show me again the
same thing, I said this is not,that's not anymore, I don't want
(50:13):
this anymore.
Let's restart the case.
But a trick, people like that.
A trick, a trick us when, inthe way, like you said, when
they know what we like and whatwe know and what we're expecting
, let me tell you they play withus and we leave them to play
(50:36):
because it's also our fault,because we can see, we know that
.
But the fear to leave therelationship doesn't allow us to
be authentic yes, and that'sthe key, I think, and you know,
tell me what you think like likein healing stockholm syndrome
is actually being authentic toyou.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Yes, right, like, because we attach for safety.
In truth, when you actuallystart loving yourself so deeply,
it's so much harder for youknow, for you to attach to
someone that is not authenticthemselves.
No it doesn't mean, like, likeyou said, that there's not going
(51:18):
to be struggles in therelationship.
That doesn't mean there's goingto be times like holy heck,
what did I get myself into?
Yes, Right, it comes down towhether or not that person will
be consistent in change.
Right, right Because you'reconsistent in changing for you.
And the thing is is you don'twant somebody else to change for
you, you want somebody else tochange for them Exactly.
(51:41):
And once you find somebody thatis consistent in changing for
them, that self-growth, that hey, I love me for me, right Then,
and you're doing the same thing.
That's a healthy relationship.
Yes.
Because you're both living therelationship for you yourselves
right, but you're benefitingmutually because you're both
(52:05):
giving yourself your own needs.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
And this is this is something like to think about,
like why my husband betrayed mebecause I betray myself.
Yes, ok, that that's number one, because we can sit down and
say, yes, him, him, him, no, Ibetrayed myself.
(52:31):
And when I understand that,four years ago I cried like a
little baby because I wasbetraying myself, how I was
living all this to happen andnot realize why the fear was
holding me down, and I said youknow, I'm going to confront your
(52:52):
fear.
I am capable to be by myself, Ican be capable to heal myself
and to be in peace with myself,and that was my ultimate goal.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
To nurture, to revive myself, to understand myself,
to get out my self-esteem,because I feel ugly because the
guy didn't look at me.
I feel ugly, I feel weird,differently, because the guy was
never like, oh, you're sobeautiful and that, or things
that we like to hear from ourmen, nothing.
(53:26):
So my self-esteem was down.
I said, no, I'm going to startloving myself and the only way
to understand that is being bymyself.
And it was like first time inmy life I'm going to be by
myself.
And I have already four yearsand a half and I'm so happy and
every time I feel free and everytime I know myself and
(53:49):
recognize myself and I saidthank you for all that
experience that I can recognizemyself and love myself yes and
with that comes, like the fear,also a little bit of dating,
because I said, oh my god, date,ah, to come, go back to that.
For all the work I've been doing, oh no, I don't know if I can
(54:12):
be.
If I can do that again, it'sbecause I'm not ready and people
when they get out fromrelationships, the worst thing
can do is go jump in and allyeah, way, yeah, give yourself
some space, give yourself sometime.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Yes, I completely, completely agree.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
I love it.
And when you have a complextrauma you have to give more
time.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Yes, yes, you do.
You need more time to be byyourself and to love yourself.
Love yourself the way God lovesyou.
See yourself the way love seesyou.
Yes, right, because if you loveyourself, love yourself the way
God loves, you, see yourselfthe way love sees you.
Yes, right, because if you loveyourself to that degree, then
you're going to start seeingother people that reflect that
same type of thing.
(54:56):
If you're attracting peopleinto your life that do not see
you, do not love you, do notcare for you, that are just, in
a sense, trying to emotionallyand mentally vampire off of you,
yes, you've really got to takesome look inside of yourself and
say hold on, what is it aboutme that's attracting this right?
(55:17):
yes and you've really got toanswer those questions and take
a really good self self, dive inand look at what's going on
inside of you right is.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
Just think about if you have 20, 25 years of being
of use.
Just think how much time youneed to rebuild yourself.
A lot of time to rebuild thatback.
A lot of time.
But you need, you want, youneed to have that, want it to
(55:53):
say I'm going to stand up for my, for me and, if you have kids,
also to show your kids that youcannot continue with that chain
of suffering, because it's achain of suffering.
So you want your kids to repeatyour story even worse yeah,
(56:14):
exactly, and it does so kids cansee you rebuild yourself.
Wow, oh, my mom was abused.
My mom, don't she finally findout and put us in in a safer
environment?
And oh, I see my mom is gettingbetter.
Speaker 1 (56:31):
So that that is teaching your kids to also not
tolerate abuse yes, I agree,because and that's that's the
beauty about this it's like thereason why we become the best
versions of ourselves is so thatway our kids can see it and
become the very best versions ofthemselves.
I love it.
(56:52):
So tell us a little bit quicklyabout your book.
We've got just a few moreminutes, but I'd like to hear
about Flourishing Captivity.
Obviously, you tell your story,but what is the process you
help women through when theypick up your book?
Speaker 2 (57:08):
well my book is about .
It's a memoir of survival forforgiveness and hope.
So when you read, when you gothrough this, it's a very you
read that book in one day if youwant.
It's very short and I I I madeit in with that intention for
you to see another perspectiveof life, that some people go
(57:30):
through complex trauma and I wasable, I was able to to flourish
and cultivate flourish on allthis path.
It's not being an easy path.
It's being a challenge pathbecause I like to change the
difficult, to challenge, butthat's exactly what my soul
(57:52):
choose.
Sometimes we say, why me?
Why me?
Yeah, you came here to thisearth with a purpose and a
mission.
And when you understand thatyou have a purpose and a mission
is when somebody read my book.
That is a guidance for survival.
I teaching another person tounderstand survival and even
(58:16):
understand that how complex wecan be and the way we can.
You know flourish in life.
Because I always said it'sweird to say this, but the
kidnap was a blessing in a way,because it teach me so many
things.
But also I have the choice togo into routes the one of the
(58:41):
victim or the one that you knowwhat this thing happens to me.
It's painful, I have a lot ofthings to deal with.
I have to convert this intopositive way, and I did it.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
You did.
Speaker 2 (58:57):
And that's what I want when people read this book
to say you know what?
I never have that kind oftrauma, but my traumas are a
little bit different and, Ithink, a little bit more easier,
I would say, to overcome than acomplex trauma, because
(59:17):
everybody have trauma and traumaare necessary for evolution
they are and you know.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
the thing is this is one of the things I talk about
often is, honestly, if you wantto find out what your mission
and purpose is, you've got totake a look at your passions.
You've got to take a look atyour spiritual gifts, like the
things that you were born with.
You've got to take a look atyour talents.
They're different, spiritualgifts and talents are different
and you've got to take a look atyour traumas.
And you've got to take a lookat your traumas because when you
(59:45):
understand your own traumas andyou heal them, you can actually
start to see a pattern in yourlife that maybe.
Maybe this is a piece of whatI'm here to do, right.
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Right To help people to get out from that survival
mode, for people to be free,because sometimes I said they
took away my freedom yes,physical freedom, but I took it
out myself.
So what is the purpose?
To be free mentally,emotionally and also in your
(01:00:21):
heart, free of anything.
That's why it comes theforgiveness, that's why I said
forgiveness.
Forgiveness, it frees you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
A free use from everything because it's actually
for the giving.
It is giving something up thathas been anchoring you and
keeping you low for so long.
Exactly yeah, exactly, exactly,exactly, wow.
Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
And also to go ahead and also is to have passion for
life.
I have passion for life.
Even they tried to kill methree times, I still wanted to
live, I still want to like andstill today.
Even sometimes life is complexand sometimes it's like I always
(01:01:05):
wanted to leave more and more.
It's like okay, what is morethere?
Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
What is more there?
What's worth living for right?
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Yes, I love that, I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
I love that.
That's a good question to ask.
You know, if you're strugglingwith any of this, what is there
more to live for?
I love that, gloria.
Thank you so much for beinghere and sharing your story.
Thank you, absolutely amazing,and my listeners go grab her
(01:01:36):
book, reach out to her if thisis something you are dealing
with.
For sure, until next time,we'll see you guys on the other
side.
Thanks so much, gloria, forbeing here.
Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Thank you, ciao, ciao .
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Bye.
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the
Other Side of the Struggle.
I'm really excited, guys,because today I have another
author with me, gloria Landano,and her book is Flourish in
Captivity.
And as I've been sitting herechatting with Gloria and about
her story and about her healingjourney overcoming Stockholm
(00:24):
syndrome, and about her healingjourney overcoming Stockholm
syndrome, it's been just anabsolutely amazing story, and I
absolutely had to have this inthis podcast for you, because I
know a lot of you are dealingwith maybe not as as severe as
what Gloria has gone through,but definitely some some
(00:48):
Stockholm syndrome yourselves,and so I really wanted her on, I
really wanted her to talk aboutthis, and so I want to welcome
Gloria to the podcast.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Erin, thank you so much for inviting me here, and
it's an honor to be able toshare my story to people that it
will change their lives andmaybe understand a little bit
what they're going through.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yes, absolutely.
So let's go ahead and diveright into this.
You told me your story and,honestly, I have been like, oh
my gosh, like everything you'vegone through, right, like it is
so traumatic.
But like, tell a little bitabout your story, like what
(01:36):
you've been through, and thenlike, what are some of the
things that are that you'redoing to bring you out of this?
Because it's it's intense.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It is definitely intense.
It is.
It is.
It is intense as a complextrauma.
And what happened was when I was25 years old, I was kidnapped
in my country, colombia, andthey put me in the trunk of a
car and they put me in a roomfor 90 days in the dark and in
that, in the beginning of thatsituation, it was like very
(02:14):
traumatic and a lot of, a lot ofanxiety, like nervous, your, my
body and my mind was all over.
My mind was spinning.
I didn't understand andcomprehend where I was, why I
was doing there, why me?
And the question was why me,why me, why me?
(02:35):
And mad.
I was mad to life, I was mad toGod.
I was mad to a lot of stuffbecause I was in that situation,
god.
I was mad to a lot of stuffbecause I was in that situation
and in the beginning, when theytold you they're going to kill
you if your family, they're notgoing to pay because they
kidnapped me.
(02:55):
So they told me you arekidnapped, you know that you're
kidnapped and I said why youguys kidnapped me?
And then they said well,because we know your family have
a little bit of money, so weneed money, so that's the easy
way for us.
That's what they said, and Iknew about kidnapping stuff
because in my country is acountry that is a little violent
(03:17):
and you see those cases moreoften than in other countries.
So when they told me I waskidnapped, I said, oh my God,
like oh, this is serious,because a lot of people don't
come back from being kidnappedor they torture you on a way
that, for example, the familywants to see if you are alive.
(03:38):
They cut your finger or cut apiece of your body to show the
family that you are alive andalso to put the family on like,
oh my God, we need to do thisfast, because then they're
touching the person and they'regoing to kill her eventually.
So it's like a psychological,like I would say, game and you
(04:04):
are kidnapped and your familyautomatically also get kidnapped
into the same situation,because it's like overwhelming
for both.
It's overwhelming for it wasoverwhelming for me that I was
kidnapped and I don't knowwhat's going to happen to me in
the future, and was veryoverwhelming for my family that
they don't know where I was.
Yeah, in that time I have athree-year-old daughter that in
(04:29):
the morning that day that cameat me in the morning before I
went to school, I left mydaughter in the daycare and when
they came at me in theafternoon, like 5.45 pm, for me
was like oh, who's going to pickup my daughter?
I was always worried about mydaughter and my daughter alone
(04:50):
was the one who kept me alive inthe entire process, because if
I didn't have a daughter Iprobably wouldn't care what's
going to happen to me.
But going in through that, in 11days in in my cleanup, it got
to a point that I couldn't cryanymore.
(05:11):
I couldn't feel anything.
It was like it was somethingdisappeared from me.
It was like, okay, I'm in thissituation, I accept the
situation.
But before I got to thatconclusion, I had something
powerful that talks to me but Ididn't understand.
(05:33):
Like Gloria, this is what it is.
You have to accept the realityand just be.
And then I said well and Istopped.
I said well and I stopped, likecrying stuff.
And then the mind started tochange and the first 11 days
your mind is like in flight orflight, if I fight or flight.
(05:57):
And then you like in survivalmode the entire time.
The three months is in survivalmode, but at 11 days, when you
just reach the point you don'thave no more energy to cry, you
have no more energy for anything.
The survival mode starts tochange on.
Okay, how I'm going to survivethis situation, how I'm going to
(06:22):
maintain my life safe in thissituation.
And I start okay, let me begrateful and let me be kind, you
know, let me use the kindness,but it's nothing like I knew
what to do.
It came alone.
Because you want to protectyour life, because they are
(06:43):
there, was telling me, they wasgonna kill me all the time.
If your family don't pay, we'regonna kill you.
If your family don't pay, we'regonna sell you.
If your family don't pay, we'regonna take you to the gorillas.
In the gorillas, it's anorganization that live in the
mountains and they don't care ifyou stay one, two, three, four,
five years.
(07:04):
So it was like constantly,constantly on the border of
panic and nervousness.
My nervous system was off, soit was constantly all the time.
And that survival mode that isso tiring, it takes everything
from you, but then your bodygets used to and to live like
(07:28):
that is awful.
So when I started telling themoh, thank you for the water,
thank you for the food, thankyou for taking me more to take a
shower.
Thank you for everything.
To take a shower.
Thank you for everything,everything.
Then I started to see that atthe beginning was like oh, what
(07:49):
is woman is telling?
What is girl telling us?
Oh, thank you for everythingand the condition that she is in
.
And then I saw that the energystarted to shift with the
kindness and the guys was likemore nicer, and then I started
developing more into theStockholm syndrome.
(08:12):
The Stockholm syndrome Stockholmsyndrome and I started to see
them differently, not my enemies, it was more okay, I need to
survive.
I need to be friends with them.
I need to survive.
I need to be friends with them.
I need to survive.
I probably need to seduce oneof them because it always was
like.
It was always like men and Isaw one of the guys.
(08:37):
When you are in survival mode,you are super intelligent and
you have like superpowers andyou started like to read and to
understand each person that haveyou in captivity.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And in my case it was four men and I can't describe.
I never see their faces becausethere was always cover.
So I only see the eyes.
And so my five senses startedto amplify.
So I, I see the soul.
You know, know, the eyes is thewindow of the soul.
So I was dealing only only withthe eyes and the window of the
(09:13):
soul.
So the kindness went throughthat, yeah, and I started to
learn, like how each one smells,how each one's talk, the sound
of the voice, the energy of thevoice.
Who was who?
Like I discovered who was theleader of the organization.
(09:34):
I also discovered who was theone in the pyramid, the one in
the bottom, like the worker, andI start like understanding that
.
But the survival mode get meinto that Like, okay, we need to
survive, we need to see.
And then I start like, oh, Isee this guy is kind of quiet
(09:55):
and kind of reserved.
I want to start seducing thisguy.
Then I started like hi, hi, howare you?
Good morning more, like more,extra nice.
And the guy started to engageand then I said, oh, I do have a
power, like women have thatpower to seduce.
And I start like, oh, you smellgood.
(10:17):
Oh, when you come in, oh, thankyou for the food, thank you for
this.
And then the guy started likebringing me more different foods
, more attend, what I need.
And then I say, okay, this ismy, my target for me to survive
and for me to to leave.
And then I involved emotionallywith him and sexually also with
(10:40):
him, and I got what I need.
I got like he said to me, I'mgoing to save you, no matter
what.
That was my purpose, and ifyour family don't pay, I take
you with me.
So that was my, my, my purpose.
But inside of me I was sayingno, I don't, I don't want, I
(11:02):
don't want to be with this guy.
I'm just using this guy for meto survive.
And then something weirdstarting to happen, like I start
feeling love for him and thenlike trying to protect them and
like trying to help them howthey can talk to my family for
(11:24):
them to get the money that theyneed.
But I was like doing that, like, okay, my family needs to
understand that I'm trying tonegotiate the kidnapping side
and I don't want my family topay more of what they are asking
for.
So my family didn't understandthat, but I already have the
people inside of.
You know, family didn'tunderstand that, but I already
(11:48):
had the people inside of youknow a you know different with
me.
Because there was one situationDecember 18, 1997, that my
family requests they want to seeif I was alive.
My family say we don't havemoney to pay for it, we don't
have money to pay for it, we'renot going to pay, and God bless
(12:08):
you and your daughter and goodhands and we have nothing to do
with this.
And for me, after two monthshere and that, it was like I got
the I feel abandoned and I said, wow, how my family can do this
to me.
But I didn't know what washappening on the other side,
(12:31):
right right, and I got mad to myfamily for a long time because
of that.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And I never understand why they did that.
It was for me like a roulette,like, okay, if what, what
happened?
If my kidnappers, if I didn'tdo the work that I was doing,
the kidnappers will, will killme in in in the moment, because
that's what they said oh, youhear, mother, you know a big
(12:59):
word and and we're gonna killyou because you hear what your
family is saying.
I can't understand your family,why they're saying that, blah,
blah.
They was mad and I was goinginto panic attack, like, okay,
this is serious, they're goingto kill me or they're going to
sell me.
(13:19):
It was like something like Icould comprehend.
I think the only people canunderstand this is people that
be in captivity or people thatare being in war.
Yeah, it's something that, likeit, take your essence and takes
everything from you.
Is that desperation of wantingto leave and to not feel that
(13:45):
they're going to kill you.
And because I had alreadyworking in the kindness, the guy
that I have the connection, theguy said wait, wait, wait, wait
, wait.
Let's, let's pause here, let's,let's pause here.
See, she's having, you know, abreakdown, a nervous breakdown.
Let's's, let's wait.
And they live, they leave.
(14:07):
And then I said, oh, my god,they're gonna kill me.
So the guy I would say I wouldsay in this, in this podcast, my
guy.
He came in and say don't worry,hey, we're gonna see what we,
what we can do, but I don't, Idon't want you to get killed.
So for me it was okay if Itrust this guy or not, but that
(14:27):
was the only option.
I have to trust the guy, yeah.
And then I have to do some likecart letters to my family
saying that please don't pay themoney and all that stuff.
And something also happens whenyou're in captivity.
When you're in captivity, yourphysical body is kidnapped but
(14:51):
your mind is free.
So you have ideas and thesurvival mode gives you this
sensation of how you're going tosurvive the situation.
But when you get out from thekidnap, your body is free by
your mind out to kidnap rightaway because you already suffer
like a complex trauma.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, you go through a lot in a very short time, your
brain is like trying to say, ok, I don't want that to happen
again, and so it like it almostkind of collapses in on itself
to make sure it doesn't happenagain.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, yeah, I get it Exactly, sure it doesn't happen
again.
Yeah, yeah, I get it Exactly.
It's very hard to understand,like how the mind, like how the
mind can trick you so quicklyand in one moment you are like,
oh, thriving with your mindbecause you're trying to survive
, and then the next hour thatrelease you, your mind gets in
(15:44):
panic and gets like, oh, my God,oh, I thank God I get out from
this and I don't want thishappen to me again.
So I got scared for everything.
I got scared for the night.
I got scared to be in the dark.
I got scared to be alone.
I got scared to walk outside.
I got scared for everything.
I got scared for everything.
And also I had the.
(16:04):
I have this like abandoned,abandoned shit, abandonment, you
know thing.
Then I have the, the rejection,and I have all these kind of
issues that the, the kidnapsituation got me into.
So I was a hot mess,emotionally a hot mess.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yes, yes, yes, I mean , and it makes sense, Like you
would be right, because that'ssuch a complex trauma and that's
such a big thing to be dealingwith and like, granted, I don't
think there's I don't know, butI don't think any of my
listeners have gone into quitethat complex of a trauma, right,
(16:48):
but, but you're right, you're,you're so right, like what ends
up happening, like when wefinally get out of that
situation, is our body becomesfree but our mind goes right
into captivity because youramygdala is just on fire, like
this is just what happened, likeholy heck, like I don't want
that to happen again.
And so you're constantlywatching your back, you're
(17:10):
constantly like and like, wheredo I need to run?
And so it puts you almost inthis fight, fight, freeze or
fawn response on a consistentbasis.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
You know yes, and and to heal it takes a long time.
And it took a long time for mebecause when I got released, my
parents didn't have theeducation to understand how bad
I was, so I didn't have atherapy right away I didn't.
(17:41):
So I was running in survivalmode the entire time and after I
got released, like 10 monthsafter, I couldn't live anymore
in my country.
I feel like I was kidnapped andI was continuing to be
kidnapped because my fatherdidn't want me to go anywhere.
If I go to the supermarket, itwas with four or five people and
(18:04):
it was like who can live likethis?
So I was like I still keen upand with my family.
My family also was keen up in away.
And I run to this country insurvival mode and that was make
me successful in the job or thework I did, because I came to
(18:29):
this country.
When you're an immigrant, youcome to this country, you need
to survive.
So I was in survival mode.
So already I was on in survivalmode.
So for me to scale in the joband whatever I was doing in the
job and whatever I was doing, itwas quickly, but mentally,
emotionally, I was a mess.
I was like very defensive, verytoxic, nobody can tell me
(19:01):
anything because I just slap onit like answer in the wrong way.
My relationship with people wasterrible.
The relationship that I hadwith my partner because I did
have different partners it wasterrible.
And it because I didn't havethe help to deal with the PTSD,
(19:22):
because PTSD is complex too,ptsd you don't know when it's
going to come up, because youcan't be, like you know,
watching TV and something comeout that triggers you and then
you react.
So I was reacting, I was veryreacting to a lot of stuff until
one day I said, wow, I'm reallynot.
(19:47):
I'm not really good at what I'mdoing, like emotionally, my
relationship with my family, therelationship with everybody.
I hate my family for a longtime because I never hear their
story, I never hear their sideof what happens, when they have
to say they don't have money.
So I was mad to them, I didn'twant to talk to them for a long
(20:12):
time.
And somebody told me one dayGloria, if you really want to
succeed in life and be better,you have to forgive your family
and talk to them and be closerto them.
And I said, no, they do this tome.
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then I had to sit down withmy father and ask him why you
(20:33):
say this, dad, you have no moneyand I feel that you just left
me there and I feel that youguys don't care about me.
And I feel that you guys don'tcare about me.
And I remember that day was ahealing one of the most healing
process I already did because hestarted to cry and he said well
(20:55):
, we have to take medication forus to be able to say that,
because we don't want you to, wedidn't want you to, nothing
happens to you to, we didn'twant you to, nothing happens to
you.
But the person who was incharge to deal like the military
, the person who's in charge todeal with the people that are
kidnapped, he told us what to do, because we don't know what to
(21:16):
do in the negotiations withthese people.
So the authority told my fatherand my mother you have to say
you don't have no money.
And my father was asking to theguy who was in charge are you
sure?
Are you sure I cannot do this?
And the guy said well, you haveto take medication if you cannot
do this, because she needs to.
(21:38):
We need to try to fool thekidnappers and make them think
that this is not a case here sothey can release you.
And then said I said well, well, that was.
I was lucky that these guysdidn't do anything to me, but it
was a possibility for, likethey're gonna they was they
(22:00):
wanna they're gonna kill me inthe moment.
So, having that conversationwith my parents, it was powerful
, because I just run with mystory, I just run with my side,
and because I was emotionallyill, I was selfish to listen to
anyone and then the StockholmSyndrome started to reflect in
(22:22):
my relationships.
So tell me, about that startedto reflect in my relationships
because I start to get attachedto guys in survival mode and,
okay, this guy I don't feel Idon't, I don't feel that I have
the capacity to stay in this ina economic wise.
(22:43):
I don't know if I can, if I cansupport myself.
So I think this guy can help me.
So I got attached to him and Iwas happy to with him because he
was providing, I was providingto, but in my mind didn't recall
that I can do this by myself.
(23:04):
In my mind didn't recall that Ican do this by myself.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I need, I need it, I needed him.
So I'm curious do you feel likeyou know, with everything
you've gone through, becausethis is just like such a wow
story, you know, like, like,what you went through is just so
hard yes, right, like just sohard, yes, right, it like so
incredibly hard?
Do you feel like, because ofwhat you went through in the
(23:31):
captivity, that, um, that iswhat taught you that you could
not do it by yourself, cause,really, you couldn't get out of
the situation by yourself.
You had to form a bond with oneof your captors, like like I
see that right.
Or cause that was your safety,like they had to be your safety,
(23:54):
yeah, right.
And so you found you form thisbond with your, with your captor
, because he was the only onethat could provide you that safe
passage out.
Do you feel like that is thepiece that filtered over into
that relationship, these nextrelationships, because you
(24:14):
realized or you believed thatyou couldn't do it yourself
because of what happened?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yes, 100%, believed that you couldn't do it yourself
because of what happened.
Yes, 100.
I I doubt myself many timesbecause of that.
Because, yes, a lot of peoplecan say, wow, you're so strong,
you survive your survivor and,yes, you have no choice.
But it comes with thatSomething so ingrained on you
(24:48):
like they change completely thechemical of your brain.
It changed a lot of stuff aboutyou.
You, when you get kidnapped,you are one person.
When you get out, you areanother, completely person.
So you lost your identitybecause if they force you, it
forced you to be different.
(25:10):
Yeah, it's not like, oh, I'mgonna go get kidnapped because I
want to change no, thesituation.
Make you change a lot of stufffrom you that you don't even
understand.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah Well, you know I say this all the time that,
like trauma, and especiallycomplex trauma, you know it
teaches you like you're alwayslearning things, your brain is
always pulling things in, and sowhen you go through a complex
trauma, your brain is like onhyper learn right, and you
explain that like it's, it's so,so like tapping into almost
(25:45):
more than what you wouldnormally use, you know, to keep
yourself safe and to keepyourself in in these situations.
But you learn certain things ina complex trauma or any type of
trauma, that actually when you,when you take them into a
normal life, it makes itanything but normal, because
(26:08):
trauma teaches you things thatactually do not work for a
normal life.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yes, and, like I said , it's difficult to make the
changes right away.
It's like three months in panic, three months on survival mode,
three months in darkness, threemonths trying to survive.
(26:35):
You don't have no rest.
Even I remember when I go tosleep.
No rest, even I remember when Igo to sleep.
I wake up in the middle of thenight and start to cry.
It's a constant three months ofyou crying and constantly worry
, constantly.
Every time they opened our door, what are they going to do to
(26:58):
me?
Me, every time they came inwith those guns, is is living in
the, in the border of the edgethe entire time.
So when you get released, youlive like that yeah and how long
is gonna take that to for youto realize that you it's not
anymore.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
It's different than everybody yeah for me it takes a
long time yeah, well, it wouldbecause, like I said, you, even
in three months, I mean, youpull in, you pull in a lifetime
of information in that amount oftime, yeah right, and you have
to.
So you know, like you talkedabout like forming a bond with
(27:41):
your captor and and like, in asense, being in captivity with
your future relationships too,like you, you kind of looked for
those, those, those things,because you realize that there's
actually a safety, yes, in thecaptivity, right, and like
that's it's.
It's insane to say that tosomebody you know, like that
(28:03):
hasn't been in your situation,but you felt safer because you
actually knew what you couldcontrol in that moment right,
right, yes and so you startlooking for that in your
partners.
So tell me about, like, healingfrom this type of Stockholmholm
syndrome like it sounds likelooking for the actual truths is
(28:26):
is what started to shift?
So start telling me, like howchanging because I know right
now you're not in a relationship, which I think is such a good
thing for you, especially right,right, yes, because of these
things that you've learned aboutrelationships but where are you
at right now in healing theStockholm Syndrome?
(28:48):
Like how did you start workingthis out of your mind, your body
and your nervous system?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
I got into realization five years ago that
I never loved anybody.
Realization five years ago thatI never loved anybody and every
single relationship I was in itwas a survival mode for me, to
(29:15):
feel safe.
And I, when you are beingkidnapped in Stockholm syndrome,
you lose your identity.
So I also feel that I don't.
I didn't have identity.
So I also feel that I don't.
I didn't have identity in myrelationships and also I didn't
have my self-esteem was low andI I've been very successful,
(29:47):
very successful in business, butvery not not that successful in
my relationships, because thatwas my, you know, my safety,
survival mode was there.
So the last relationship it wasI was attracting a lot of
narcissist people and I alsoquestion myself okay, so I'm a
narcissist too in a way, becauseI'm attracting a narcissist.
But I'm also okay with anarcissist.
I can deal with the narcissistBecause if I deal with the
kidnapper, I can deal with anysituation that was in my mind.
(30:09):
So six years ago I said no.
Five years ago I said no, Icannot, I don't feel authentic,
I don't feel myself, I'mdoubting myself all the time.
This relationship that I hadwith my husband for 14 years is
horrendous.
I don't trust.
(30:30):
And the weird thing I got thesepartners that I can't trust.
They do always something for menot to trust.
So I have I started to havefrom kidnapping I have trust
issue, so I was attracting trustissues.
So the last, the last person,he did he like break my core in
(30:53):
pieces.
And for me to get up from thatit took me almost 10 years, 10
years for me in therapy, 10years for me to understand.
(31:14):
For me, 10 years it was likemore of the more of the more
same thing.
It was like more of the more ofthe more same thing Betray,
humiliation, not trusting.
And I said no, I'm going tofinish this relationship.
Five years ago I was in fear,like, oh my God, now what?
(31:35):
I'm going to divorce, I'm notgoing to have money enough to
support myself.
I don't know if I can, if I canwork again.
I'm in my 48, because I decidewhen I five years.
I decide when I was 47, 48.
I don't, I don't, I don't havemy age, 48, 49, oh my god, what
(31:56):
I'm gonna do myself.
I'm too old to restart my life.
And then the conversationstarted, like you know.
But I already lived with himfor 40 years, not trusting him,
you know.
But I feel okay here and maybeI don't talk about this subject
(32:18):
to him because every time I talkto this subject to him he get
mad at me and he scream on meand he gets like weird with me.
So if I, if I don't talk aboutthat, that bothered me, I
probably can't avoid a fight.
So what I was doing it wassurviving and accepting all the
the stuff that he, he was doingto me.
(32:40):
He was very sarcastic, helaughed about me and I got very
mad when he do all that kind ofstuff and I got into very verbal
verbal abuse.
He verbal abused me.
So we got into verbal abuse.
We got into also physical abusebecause he said to me one day
(33:02):
oh, you are nothing and youcannot do anything, and he
pissed me off so much.
And then we got into physicaland we called the police and all
the stuff and I said, no, Icannot live here anymore.
If I stay one more time here,we probably one of us we're
going to kill each other.
Because, I'm not going to.
(33:23):
I wasn't the point that I wasnot going to tolerate any more
from him.
So I have to make the decision,and the decision was 10 years
ago.
One of my friends told me let'sgo to a forgiveness retreat for
four days.
And that forgiveness retreatfor four days, and that
(33:43):
forgiveness retreat, it was thebeginning of my transformation.
But it was like it's not.
Like you go for four days andyou come completely different.
No, it's just you just startpeeling.
You just start peeling what youhave to work.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
So I started to change and I started to see that
I was not in the right placewith the right person in the
right moment.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
So what did you learn about forgiveness that shifted
things for you.
That was the turning point.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Forgiveness for me is the the most powerful tool that
exists for you to heal anything.
Because when you have, like, afight or you're angry to someone
, you have that energy on youand you you have.
(34:38):
You feel like you're heavy,you're heavy, you're heavy, you
think, that energy on you andyou you have.
You feel like you're heavy,you're heavy, you think that
things don't go well and everytime you think about that person
you feel angry and mad andupset, and so your chemicals in
your body start again, over andover and over, you know,
damaging your body, damagingyour mind.
(35:01):
So forgiveness for me is thetool number one.
When I did the forgiveness tomy father and my mother, it was
like wow, a lot of miracles arestarting to happen for me.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Because it opens up the door of truth, right,
correct, yes, yeah, yes of truth, right, correct?
Speaker 2 (35:28):
yes, yeah, yes.
So then I had to do the.
I already did the uh, theforgiveness to the kidnappers
before, before I leave the,before I leave the kidnap,
because I told them thank you somuch for everything like that,
thank you so much for everything.
I don't feel anything, you know, in case of you, but I didn't
know.
I have a Stockholm syndrome,but when I get out it was so
(35:50):
ironic Like I didn't feel badthings about them because they
didn't kill me, they didn'ttorture me, they didn't do
anything.
But I took a long time with myfamily, mad because of what they
said.
So it's an ironic thing.
I should be mad to thekidnappers longer, and not
(36:12):
longer with my family.
So it's something that youdon't know why things happen
that way.
So, forgiveness, I forgive thekidnappers, I think about them.
It doesn't feel anything likemad or nothing.
I forgive my father and mymother.
I ask for forgiveness too,because I'm, you know, sorry for
everything I feel about themand my last relationship, my
(36:37):
ex-husband also.
I did also a process offorgiveness, writing letters of
forgiveness and also telling himto forgive me of thinking all
those bad things about him andhe also was.
He apologized to me and also heasked for forgiveness to me.
But that one took a little bitlonger.
(37:00):
With him it was like, yes, wedid that.
But then I feel later, yearslater, that I still have things
bad feelings about him becausewhat he did to me so I got the
decision I said I'm gettingdivorced the two first years was
very emotionally distraught.
(37:27):
I got a little bit of depression, a lot of anxiety too.
I don't know what's going tohappen.
I have to change my car, I haveto change my house, I have to
change the way I'm living.
I was living very, very goodand then I still living very
good, but it was a big changefor me and I know a lot of women
(37:49):
are.
They stay in relationships tonot lose this status.
And in they stay inrelationships, they said,
because they're kids.
But they don't know when youstay in a relationship, that is
that bad.
You also damaging your kids.
And that's what happens to mymom and my father.
(38:10):
My mom stayed with my fatherfor 33 years and I saw a
horrendous relationship, toxic,like I was saying eight years
old when I was eight years old.
I don't want that.
Oh, I don't want that.
And guess what?
I repeat the story.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, cause that's what you saw,
that's what that was, yournormal.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
And so we can sit there and say like I don't want
that.
But until we actually see whatthat is and like the patterns of
the that, like that's exactlywhat we, what we do, because our
brain is already programmedinto those patterns, you have to
absolutely reprogram andunprogram, in a sense, your
brain so that way, you know, youdon't keep following these same
(38:57):
you know symptoms and thesesame patterns.
So you know, going back to thestockholm syndrome, right,
because you know, you're right,like a lot of women do have a
fear to leave.
Right, because you know, foryour kidnapper, you know,
attaching to him, that was yoursafety Right.
(39:18):
Attaching to your husband, itwas some type of safety Right,
even though, even though he waslike volatile, like there was
the financial safety, there wassome sort of stability that we,
that you wanted.
Right, yes, yes.
And at some point you had tosay to yourself actually, the
stability that I want isn't whathe has to give.
(39:41):
The stability I want is yes, Iwant this financial stability,
but I also want.
The stability I want is yes, Iwant this financial stability,
but I also want emotionalstability, I want mental
stability, I want physicalstability, right, and we start
looking at all the areas of ourlife that we need stability in.
So, you know, what would yousuggest then to a woman who is
(40:01):
dealing with the Stockholmsyndrome, who is struggling to
leave because she's still inthat space of you know what?
I love him, right, I feelconnected to him.
Like what would you tell her?
Like one of the number onethings you've got to realize?
Speaker 2 (40:19):
We think, when we are in relationships like that, we
think we love them.
It's not love.
That's not love.
It's love for them, becausethey think that probably that's
what they see before and theyprobably are used to that, but
that's not love.
(40:39):
I mean somebody that betrayedyou or somebody that humiliate
you, or somebody that treat youbad and that humiliate you,
somebody to treat you bad andand verbal abuse you in many
ways.
Do you think that is love?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Not at all.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Not at all.
But for them, they think, isthat.
And I thought, when I waskidnapped, I feel love for this,
for this kidnapper, and Ithought I I was in love with my
husband for 14 years and I said,no, this is not true, this is
not the love, because I sawpeople that have good
(41:15):
relationships and they have goodmarriages.
Of course, every marriage havetheir own stuff, but some people
have very healthy relationshipsand for me it was so hard to
believe that, for me to.
If you, if you come and say tome, gloria, I know I have a good
relationship, we love, wetravel, we do this and stuff and
(41:38):
yes, we do have our stuff andwe resolve things quickly I
don't believe you.
I was in that place, yeah, right, why?
Because it's based on myexperience, yeah, and based on
what I see.
So what I told to women thatthey think they love the person
who abused you that's not love.
(42:02):
That's not love.
They need to get out of thatscenario and start to learn
about love and see if it'sreally what you understand about
love, if it's really whatyou're receiving, because we
(42:22):
cannot say that love is this wayor this way.
No, let's find out what is areal relationship.
What is love?
Unconditional love, love, 100%sure Love is not the person who
abused you.
That's not love.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
No.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
No.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
No, Because you can't give what you don't have right.
And whatever that person isgiving is what they have.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yes, and always the abuser is being abused.
So if they've been abused, theybecome abusers.
Or they abuse them or they areused to.
They can go into routes.
They like people to abuse themand they're okay there, or they
(43:12):
become abusers.
Yes, so when women are in arelationship with an abuser, the
two people are completelyemotionally ill Either way.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
And mentally to some degree, oh yeah yeah absolutely.
And you know, and again mysweet listeners, I mean we're
not here to say that you'rementally ill or anything like
that, but it is what she'ssaying is true, right, because
when, when we stop, when we slowdown and we sit there and we're
like what is actually true here?
(43:46):
Right, that's us connectinginto love, because love is truth
, right?
Right it absolutely is truth.
Truth is also seeing the verybest in yourself, like, yeah,
you might see like what thisperson can do and like what
their potentials is, and maybeyou might love that perception
(44:06):
and you think to yourself, I canhelp them get to that
perception.
But the truth of the matter isis it's not up to you to help
somebody else take action.
You can't do that.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
We cannot be saviors.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
No, we are not the savior.
We cannot be saviors.
We are not the savior.
And this is why forgiveness isso important is because it is
literally giving up, like whatis so hard in our lives, to the
saving.
Now, if you don't believe inthe savior, then you've got to
really take a look at what yourhighest form of love is right,
(44:40):
exactly yes you've got to take alook at.
You know, what is it out therethat loves me so purely because
it sees like the actual, thetrue version of me, Right.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
And we're not talking about just, you know, living a
mundane lifestyle, like actuallya glorious version of you,
right, that sees the best, bestbest of you.
What is out there that's movingheaven and earth, the energies
and everything like that, foryour best interest?
What is out there that'sliterally taking and I love, I
(45:21):
love this analogy that's taking,a banana grown in Ecuador.
You know, knowing that thatbanana grown in Ecuador is going
to be given to you from yourgrocery store, like, understands
where that path is headed, putsthe exact nutrition in that
banana that you need for yourbody, right, sends it to your
(45:46):
grocery store so you can buy andeat it.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Right, that's what we're talking about when we say
the highest form of love it'swhatever it is that's out there
that has your back so incredibly, right, right.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
For example, when you know, when women have a
Stockholm Syndrome and have anabuser, when the abuser shows a
little bit of attention, alittle bit of love, like, for
example, oh I like your haircuttoday, that woman needs to want
(46:20):
that more, not so little,because that's what abusers do.
They when they see that theperson the women is like don't
want anything and they are, thewomen are seeing the true about
the whole thing they know thatthe woman is changing.
so what's happening is startingto, you know, say nicer things
(46:44):
to her.
Because women tends to havealways a hope.
Because we are not the womenthat we go in a relationship and
, for whatever reason, we justend and abort the relationship.
We work the relationship.
We try.
We also suggested our partnerslet's go to the therapy, couple
(47:07):
therapy.
We're always looking forsolutions.
But when the viewers see thewomen is going another way, the
viewers start like, oh, I likeyour haircut, or starting to be
nice for a week.
And when the women say, oh, oh,my God, I'm so happy.
Now I don't need to make thedecision, I don't need to go
(47:28):
anywhere.
He's changing.
He's not changing.
He's chasing you to stay.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
He's placating.
For him to abuse you more, yeahit's placation, yes, it's
absolute placation, and you needto understand that, because
somebody that truly loves you isalso consistent.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Consistent.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Right, yes, it's not this up and down roller coaster
of a relationship where you'refeeling like you're a yo-yo.
You know, every time yourstring gets pulled, and that's
what that is is yanking yourchain right, yes, and thinking,
oh okay, now I have a little bitof hope.
String gets pulled, and that'swhat that is is yanking your
chain right, yes, and thinking,oh okay, now I, now I have a
little bit of hope.
That's actually the sickestgame somebody can play, because
(48:15):
they know what you need, theyknow what you desire, they know
what they need to do, but theyrefuse to do it unless they're
playing a game with you, unlessthey feel that they are losing
you.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
I'm going to tell you a story that happens to me.
When my last husband the day Isaid to him I don't want, I want
a divorce I went to Costa Ricato live for three months by
myself and in that process I wasprocessing, like to be alone,
to see if I was doing the rightdecision, and all that stuff.
10 days before I was comingback to the States he started
(48:57):
being nicer and he started like,yes, we should work the
relationship.
I'm so happy.
And I started like, oh my God,I'm so happy.
I'm so happy and I start like,oh my God, I is so good.
(49:24):
These three months I was out,he really find out about my
value and he loved me and allthis stuff.
Somebody that is not realcannot hold for more than two
weeks.
When somebody is not giving youthe real love, the real thing
about the person, authentic, itcannot hold that for too long.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Of course two weeks after that back to what you guys
were at.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Back to the same thing and I said to that day, I
said you know what?
I'm calling my lawyer torestart the process Because I
stopped the process.
Because he said I want you tostop the process, let's think
about it.
Blah, blah, blah.
And the two weeks after I comeback, when he show me again the
same thing, I said this is not,that's not anymore, I don't want
(50:13):
this anymore.
Let's restart the case.
But a trick, people like that.
A trick, a trick us when, inthe way, like you said, when
they know what we like and whatwe know and what we're expecting
, let me tell you they play withus and we leave them to play
(50:36):
because it's also our fault,because we can see, we know that
.
But the fear to leave therelationship doesn't allow us to
be authentic yes, and that'sthe key, I think, and you know,
tell me what you think like likein healing stockholm syndrome
is actually being authentic toyou.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Yes, right, like, because we attach for safety.
In truth, when you actuallystart loving yourself so deeply,
it's so much harder for youknow, for you to attach to
someone that is not authenticthemselves.
No it doesn't mean, like, likeyou said, that there's not going
(51:18):
to be struggles in therelationship.
That doesn't mean there's goingto be times like holy heck,
what did I get myself into?
Yes, Right, it comes down towhether or not that person will
be consistent in change.
Right, right Because you'reconsistent in changing for you.
And the thing is is you don'twant somebody else to change for
you, you want somebody else tochange for them Exactly.
(51:41):
And once you find somebody thatis consistent in changing for
them, that self-growth, that hey, I love me for me, right Then,
and you're doing the same thing.
That's a healthy relationship.
Yes.
Because you're both living therelationship for you yourselves
right, but you're benefitingmutually because you're both
(52:05):
giving yourself your own needs.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
And this is this is something like to think about,
like why my husband betrayed mebecause I betray myself.
Yes, ok, that that's number one, because we can sit down and
say, yes, him, him, him, no, Ibetrayed myself.
(52:31):
And when I understand that,four years ago I cried like a
little baby because I wasbetraying myself, how I was
living all this to happen andnot realize why the fear was
holding me down, and I said youknow, I'm going to confront your
(52:52):
fear.
I am capable to be by myself, Ican be capable to heal myself
and to be in peace with myself,and that was my ultimate goal.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
To nurture, to revive myself, to understand myself,
to get out my self-esteem,because I feel ugly because the
guy didn't look at me.
I feel ugly, I feel weird,differently, because the guy was
never like, oh, you're sobeautiful and that, or things
that we like to hear from ourmen, nothing.
(53:26):
So my self-esteem was down.
I said, no, I'm going to startloving myself and the only way
to understand that is being bymyself.
And it was like first time inmy life I'm going to be by
myself.
And I have already four yearsand a half and I'm so happy and
every time I feel free and everytime I know myself and
(53:49):
recognize myself and I saidthank you for all that
experience that I can recognizemyself and love myself yes and
with that comes, like the fear,also a little bit of dating,
because I said, oh my god, date,ah, to come, go back to that.
For all the work I've been doing, oh no, I don't know if I can
(54:12):
be.
If I can do that again, it'sbecause I'm not ready and people
when they get out fromrelationships, the worst thing
can do is go jump in and allyeah, way, yeah, give yourself
some space, give yourself sometime.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Yes, I completely, completely agree.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
I love it.
And when you have a complextrauma you have to give more
time.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Yes, yes, you do.
You need more time to be byyourself and to love yourself.
Love yourself the way God lovesyou.
See yourself the way love seesyou.
Yes, right, because if you loveyourself, love yourself the way
God loves, you, see yourselfthe way love sees you.
Yes, right, because if you loveyourself to that degree, then
you're going to start seeingother people that reflect that
same type of thing.
(54:56):
If you're attracting peopleinto your life that do not see
you, do not love you, do notcare for you, that are just, in
a sense, trying to emotionallyand mentally vampire off of you,
yes, you've really got to takesome look inside of yourself and
say hold on, what is it aboutme that's attracting this right?
(55:17):
yes and you've really got toanswer those questions and take
a really good self self, dive inand look at what's going on
inside of you right is.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
Just think about if you have 20, 25 years of being
of use.
Just think how much time youneed to rebuild yourself.
A lot of time to rebuild thatback.
A lot of time.
But you need, you want, youneed to have that, want it to
(55:53):
say I'm going to stand up for my, for me and, if you have kids,
also to show your kids that youcannot continue with that chain
of suffering, because it's achain of suffering.
So you want your kids to repeatyour story even worse yeah,
(56:14):
exactly, and it does so kids cansee you rebuild yourself.
Wow, oh, my mom was abused.
My mom, don't she finally findout and put us in in a safer
environment?
And oh, I see my mom is gettingbetter.
Speaker 1 (56:31):
So that that is teaching your kids to also not
tolerate abuse yes, I agree,because and that's that's the
beauty about this it's like thereason why we become the best
versions of ourselves is so thatway our kids can see it and
become the very best versions ofthemselves.
I love it.
(56:52):
So tell us a little bit quicklyabout your book.
We've got just a few moreminutes, but I'd like to hear
about Flourishing Captivity.
Obviously, you tell your story,but what is the process you
help women through when theypick up your book?
Speaker 2 (57:08):
well my book is about .
It's a memoir of survival forforgiveness and hope.
So when you read, when you gothrough this, it's a very you
read that book in one day if youwant.
It's very short and I I I madeit in with that intention for
you to see another perspectiveof life, that some people go
(57:30):
through complex trauma and I wasable, I was able to to flourish
and cultivate flourish on allthis path.
It's not being an easy path.
It's being a challenge pathbecause I like to change the
difficult, to challenge, butthat's exactly what my soul
(57:52):
choose.
Sometimes we say, why me?
Why me?
Yeah, you came here to thisearth with a purpose and a
mission.
And when you understand thatyou have a purpose and a mission
is when somebody read my book.
That is a guidance for survival.
I teaching another person tounderstand survival and even
(58:16):
understand that how complex wecan be and the way we can.
You know flourish in life.
Because I always said it'sweird to say this, but the
kidnap was a blessing in a way,because it teach me so many
things.
But also I have the choice togo into routes the one of the
(58:41):
victim or the one that you knowwhat this thing happens to me.
It's painful, I have a lot ofthings to deal with.
I have to convert this intopositive way, and I did it.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
You did.
Speaker 2 (58:57):
And that's what I want when people read this book
to say you know what?
I never have that kind oftrauma, but my traumas are a
little bit different and, Ithink, a little bit more easier,
I would say, to overcome than acomplex trauma, because
(59:17):
everybody have trauma and traumaare necessary for evolution
they are and you know.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
the thing is this is one of the things I talk about
often is, honestly, if you wantto find out what your mission
and purpose is, you've got totake a look at your passions.
You've got to take a look atyour spiritual gifts, like the
things that you were born with.
You've got to take a look atyour talents.
They're different, spiritualgifts and talents are different
and you've got to take a look atyour traumas.
And you've got to take a lookat your traumas because when you
(59:45):
understand your own traumas andyou heal them, you can actually
start to see a pattern in yourlife that maybe.
Maybe this is a piece of whatI'm here to do, right.
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Right To help people to get out from that survival
mode, for people to be free,because sometimes I said they
took away my freedom yes,physical freedom, but I took it
out myself.
So what is the purpose?
To be free mentally,emotionally and also in your
(01:00:21):
heart, free of anything.
That's why it comes theforgiveness, that's why I said
forgiveness.
Forgiveness, it frees you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
A free use from everything because it's actually
for the giving.
It is giving something up thathas been anchoring you and
keeping you low for so long.
Exactly yeah, exactly, exactly,exactly, wow.
Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
And also to go ahead and also is to have passion for
life.
I have passion for life.
Even they tried to kill methree times, I still wanted to
live, I still want to like andstill today.
Even sometimes life is complexand sometimes it's like I always
(01:01:05):
wanted to leave more and more.
It's like okay, what is morethere?
Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
What is more there?
What's worth living for right?
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Yes, I love that, I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
I love that.
That's a good question to ask.
You know, if you're strugglingwith any of this, what is there
more to live for?
I love that, gloria.
Thank you so much for beinghere and sharing your story.
Thank you, absolutely amazing,and my listeners go grab her
(01:01:36):
book, reach out to her if thisis something you are dealing
with.
For sure, until next time,we'll see you guys on the other
side.
Thanks so much, gloria, forbeing here.
Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Thank you, ciao, ciao .
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Bye.
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