December 17, 2024 • 59 mins
What if you could transform your personal values into a thriving business that makes a genuine social impact? Angela Parker, co-founder of Realized Worth, joins us to share her inspiring entrepreneurial story. From starting in a small church environment to partnering with corporate giants like Microsoft, Angela's journey is a testament to the power of aligning passion with purpose. Through her experiences, Angela highlights the importance of creating a culture that prioritizes social good, and she reveals the pivotal moments and decisions that shaped her path, offering invaluable insights for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Angela's narrative is rich with lessons on the complexities of leadership and the art of trusting one's instincts in business growth. Despite the challenges of transitioning from a small cleaning business to launching Realized Worth, Angela emphasizes the crucial role of intuition in navigating the unpredictable world of entrepreneurship. She shares her personal reflections on the emotional challenges of growing her business, and how these experiences have shaped her unique approach to integrating corporate social responsibility into business strategy.
Our conversation also delves into the emotional journey of maintaining passion amidst challenges and the transformative power of self-compassion. Angela candidly discusses her struggles with identity tied to business success, the impact of setbacks, and the resilience needed to overcome them. Through personal anecdotes and techniques like journaling, Angela offers a roadmap for leaders to nurture their mindset and navigate the pressures of leading a mission-oriented company. Join us for a compelling discussion filled with insights, inspiration, and the wisdom to transform your own entrepreneurial journey.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the Owner's Odyssey, the podcast
where we delve deep into thetransformative stories of
courageous business owners whohave embarked on an
extraordinary adventure.
I'm Zach Jones and I'm BrookeGattia.
We're here to explore the reallife experiences of
entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Each episode, we'll embark on a quest to uncover the
trials, triumphs andtransformations of remarkable
individuals who dared to answerthe call of entrepreneurship.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Like all adventurers, our guests have faced their
fair share of challenges,vanquished formidable foes and
braved the unknown.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a
seasoned business owner orsimply an avid listener hungry
for captivating stories.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
The Owner's Odyssey is here to help you level up.
So join us as we embark on thisepic expedition.
This is the Owner's Odyssey.
Let's start our adventure.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Today we are meeting with Angela Parker with Realized
Worth.
Realized Worth is a companythat works with for-profit
larger companies such asMicrosoft and have thousands of
people and help them developcorporate social responsibility
programs.
So helping them volunteer,helping them be philanthropic,
(01:24):
how to create really goodcultures within their companies.
And so it was a greatconversation and I think you
will enjoy tuning in and hearingabout how she has struggled
with the creating a culture andbringing a certain amount of set
(01:44):
of values into her business andhow to cultivate that and how
to get over her mental blocks tocreating that space in her
company.
So I met you, oh, 25 years ago.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Something really long ago you were working in a
church and life was changing andI don't even there's lots of
stories to all of that side ofthings.
But somewhere around that timeyou started branching out and
started a business calledRealized Worth and I think I've
(02:25):
been with you the whole process,like as far as just I've known
you through all of that side ofthings.
Realized Worth is a really cooland I'm gonna butcher horribly
what it is that you do, onopsisof it.
You help the big companiesencourage their people to be
(02:50):
corporately responsible and so,without the big terminology of
corporate responsibility andwhat that is of engaging, kind
of philanthropic engaging involunteer, engaging well in the
community around them, and howdo businesses encourage their
people to do that?
(03:10):
And I always thought that wasthe coolest business topic just
to be like both a business thatis for profit but doing a thing
that is really good for thecommunity and kind of where that
that space is.
And so I have and Angela is avery call her.
(03:34):
She kind of has a gypsiness toher, so she's super like,
intuitive to things, verygracious and kind and
encouraging, but has thisuniqueness to who she is that it
draws me in.
I'm totally engaged often withwho you are and kind of your
(03:56):
vision and your drive and howyou care for people.
So I'm not really sure how thatrelates to a gypsy, but you
just kind of do your own beatAnyhow.
So I asked that you'd come inand kind of share with us a
little bit of what has been yourjourney.
How did you decide to do thisas a business?
(04:18):
What got you from a church todoing this for-profit thing?
Yeah, what's your journey inthat side of things?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Oh, thanks for asking , brooke.
It's always fun to talk topeople who have been here the
whole time.
I believe you've been myaccountant since the very
beginning and my friend sincebefore that.
So it is quite a thing toreminisce with people who've
been on the journey.
And when you were sharing, youknow saying here's kind of the
elevator, and when you weresharing, you know saying here's
(04:50):
kind of the elevator pitch ofwhat the business is, I kind of
internally laughed because I wasjust at a conference last week
with all people that do my kindof work and somebody got on
stage and said do any of yourgrandparents understand what you
do?
And everybody just burst outlaughing because it is one of
those things that you try toexplain.
And you know, with each newgeneration, people understand a
little more and now we have ageneration of people coming into
the work world that areactually educated in what we now
(05:12):
refer to as corporate socialimpact, which is annoying
because I'm like, ok, talk to mein 10 years, when you've
experienced how difficult thisindustry is, it's good and you
feel like you're going to beable to do good.
And then you spend a lot oftime feeling like you might feel
if you work in a nonprofit,where you are under-resourced,
under-supported, notwell-understood and always
(05:33):
fighting for something that youthought you believed in but
can't quite get to.
So we can talk more about whatthat looks like in practice, but
it is technically that theelevator phrase is we design and
implement corporatevolunteering programs that are
scalable, measurable andmeaningful.
Those are the three things thatcompanies are always looking
for in this space.
(05:53):
And now I know that, after along journey, it's been 16 years
this year.
I think we were founded in 2008.
Um, and, as Brooke said, we myco chris jarvis, and I both came
from the church and non-profitworld and I think maybe, like
many of us, we experienced adissidence, dissonance in in the
(06:16):
space we were in, in the beliefsystem we existed within and
wanted to find a way to, to, to,to find resonance to, to find
what is the thing that feels notquite right about this space
but that we still believe in andthat we want to take forward in
our careers, in our lives in away that can direct us, can feel
(06:38):
, you know, a sense of meaning.
People want to bring theirwhole self to work.
That whole whole thing.
Chris Jarvis and I both really,really wanted that.
For me personally, I grew up inPortland Oregon in the 90s, like
Hole and Nirvana were my bands,like I was never gonna work for
the man, so so so resolvingthat that dissonance was a was
(07:00):
was definitely not what Iexpected to move toward the
business world.
But the dissonance is where itstarted and I can tell a little
bit more of that story if youwant me to go that direction.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, do whatever your journey is.
We're just going to organicallyflow.
I can be a gypsy too, so that'smy statement we can organically
flow.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, well, there are a lot of you know Um, well,
there, there, there's there,there are a lot of you know a
lot of the sort of personaldetails that I think are
important.
I won't get deep into it now,but for anyone who listens to
your podcast, I think there'sthis idea that we want to
separate um work from ourpersonal lives, and I understand
what people mean by that.
(07:39):
They mean leave your work athome and spend time with your
family.
Let it go.
Don't let that stress guideeverything you do in your
personal lives.
But I think there's somethingabout us, and probably the
reason that we even use thatphrase is because we know that
it is connected.
We know that we want to careabout the thing we spend all day
doing.
We know that it would be sogreat to live a life that felt
(08:01):
integrated somehow, even with ahealthy separation between being
able to go out and play yeahyeah, yeah, exactly so.
So my, my personal life, my, my,my divorce, my experience of
growing up in a in a householdthat was very patriarchal, my
understanding that women womencan lead but only if they lead
(08:25):
children.
And then, eventually, lookingat the nonprofit space that I
was in, the church space, andthinking probably what a lot of
people think, which is wouldn'tit be great to be well-resourced
and make a decent salary and towork in the space where the
influence lives, likecorporations, where the
influence lives Likecorporations we know all day,
(08:46):
eight hours a day, if not more,are influencing the lives and
the decisions of hundreds ofthousands of people in this
country, hundreds of thousands,millions, and then around the
world.
It's just, it's wild.
So that's where influence lives.
So my little Portland hippieheart started to move toward
what if I did want to work inbusiness?
Who am I betraying?
(09:07):
What terrible things am Isaying about who I am and what I
believe in?
And then I left what I was inand it was catastrophic.
I left my marriage, I left thework that I was in, I left
working in the church, all thethings that I had built my whole
life up to say this is what Ibelieve in and moved away from
that and just did what people dowhen they start over and just
(09:29):
figured out how to make a livingEarly on as you know, brooke,
that was cleaning houses.
That's what I knew how to do.
I had done that in college andI was like I got to make a
living but I can't get into ajob that's going to keep me in
it.
I got to stay in something thatI want to get out of.
While I think about where thisis all going, what am I doing?
Cleaned houses and actuallyfound so much joy in building
(09:51):
that up as a little tinybusiness and having clients that
I got to decide how I wanted toplease them not just doing the
work, building relationship andthinking about what it would be
like to train people up in thecleaning business and give them
a great experience and thenstarted to feel what it was to
like, feel this deepsatisfaction in creating a tiny
(10:13):
little culture in my own littlework world, and I think that,
without me being reallyconscious of it, led to going.
Oh yeah, I think I.
I think I like this businessthing Like this is.
This is cool and maybe there'sa whole different way to do it,
not different from every othercompany.
My approach to business isn'tnew, but there are.
But it's hard to keep it going.
It's hard to keep building aculture that people want to be
(10:34):
in.
So, at the same time, chrisJarvis was working on what if we
could build, we being him,being himself and like the world
.
He wasn't thinking about usco-founding anything at the time
, but he was thinking what?
What would it be like to createsomething where nonprofits
could get the kind of volunteersthat they want without wasting
a lot of time on volunteers?
(10:55):
Because nonprofits do folks,nonprofits waste so much time on
volunteers that they hope willturn into something good.
And yeah, we could do a whole,we could do the whole
conversation on just that.
And and so he started writingabout this, working through this
.
He he was meeting with peopleand he met with this nonprofit
(11:17):
in Toronto and he was like Iwant to consult with you and
help build this system which hehad built in previous places.
That will get you the kind ofvolunteers that you need
long-term, these advocates foryour organization.
They were like that's great, wecan't afford a consultant.
And he was like, oh right,right, right, right.
Yeah, you're not right, that'sof course.
But they did say and this waslike 2007, they did say but we
(11:38):
have these companies coming tous all the time saying can you,
you know, like this Thursday-ishlet us bring in a whole bunch
of executives because they'll behere from out of town and they
want, you know, they want ameaningful experience and they
want to get their hands dirty,but like not too dirty because
they'll be in suits and theywant to.
You know, they want to have asense of purpose that they
associate with their company,but like not purpose, that
creeps them out.
(11:58):
So like, can you find a balancefor us, volunteer opportunity,
and also, can you make surethere's a barbecue and a photo
op?
Can you do all that by Thursday?
And the nonprofit's like, yes,because maybe a check will come
with that.
So that was when they actuallysaid can you work with those
companies to come to us aspartners?
So that started Chris off inthat world while I'm over here
(12:20):
trying to figure my life out.
And then eventually, we hadconversations where we're like,
oh, trying to figure my life out.
And then eventually we hadconversations where we're like,
oh, this is the thing thatbrings it all together, this is
the thing where we caninfiltrate the system, the
system where influence lives andstart working with people to
bring them into the nonprofitworld from companies, connect
them with meaning, but not justand I mean specifically not
(12:44):
going into these organizationssaying we're going to do it our
way, we're going to be the whitesaviors coming in to make you
like us.
We're going to come into yourspace and learn and become
different ourselves.
We're going to become the bestversions of ourselves through
this experience.
So that was when you know a lotof what I was learning and
building.
This tiny little cleaningbusiness moved into motivation
to actually go to businessschool, which moved into this,
(13:07):
this approach, this consultingapproach that we now do with
companies.
Now there's a.
You know, as you know, havingbuilt multiple businesses
yourself, what you start with isa version of what you have 15
years later, but it, it's, it'sadorable, it's adorable to look
back to that.
Yeah, yeah.
So so you know, we've now nowwe have just 20 employees and we
(13:30):
built up quite a quite aconsulting business with some
really meaningful company likebig, big names who are really
into this that we've been ableto build this approach up with.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So at what point in time did you figure out that
that approach could make money?
Was it that conversation thatyou had with them, or was it a
different point where you'relike, oh, there's where the like
monetary side of that piececomes into play?
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Honestly, brooke, if I had gone to business school
first, I would never have donethis, because I don't think it
would have ever made sense.
I don't think anyone would havesat down with us and been like
this will make money.
They would have said isn'tvolunteering free?
Yeah, and we?
And that's what we've heardfrom so many people.
I think, um, the thing we've hadto do what people have to do
(14:19):
internally at companies to whatcorporate social responsibility
or social impact teams have todo, which is here's how this
strategically aligns with whereyou want to go as a business.
So we had to sort of create thisframework around this one
little piece, which is peoplecan become better humans by
going out into the community andexperiencing the things that we
don't experience in ourday-to-day lives.
That's the core.
(14:39):
Like that's what we, thisbusiness, exists for.
But around that there is ifyou're going to have a business
initiative, if you're going tohave a department within your
company, it has to alignstrategically with everything
else you're trying to do and ithas to be as legitimate as any
other business initiative.
So that part has to be aslegitimate as any other business
initiative.
So that part, somehow we atleast understood that, chris, as
(15:02):
a very strategically mindedperson, luckily.
So we were able to bring thatangle into businesses as we did
this.
We would do these designworkshops with, say, 12 of their
team members, and they wouldfeel inspired enough, but also
like they had strategic languageto take forward.
So those two things together,the emotion that they wanted,
along with the strategy thatthey could pitch to senior
(15:22):
leaders, I think was what worked.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah, you figured out how to get the businesses to
see that it not only helps theirpeople, it helps their
businesses reputation, whichultimately helps their business
as a whole.
And that's a that's not adirect correlation.
Like I can sit down and go.
If you do this tactic, you savethis much in taxes.
(15:45):
You're sitting there and going.
Okay, if you do this tactic,it's going to have this PR move
that's going to happen and andthat's a hard, that's a harder
sell it's a ton of making sureyou're aligning with people and
what it sounds like is that youfound that niche of language.
You found that niche of purposethat aligned with some of these
(16:09):
bigger companies where theirmission and they see that value.
I guess, if that makes sense,and that's kind of cool.
So how was it for you sayingokay, I'm done doing cleaning,
I'm going to jump to this.
What was that feeling for you?
Was it methodical and you'relike okay, we're making enough
(16:29):
money?
Was it all right?
Hail Mary, I'm just going tojump because they need our time?
Like what was that jump for youto say I'm releasing this
safety net and going to jumpfull-time into this?
Speaker 4 (16:43):
That is well.
It's funny that you said whatwas the feeling, because it was
again don't take this tobusiness school but it was a
feeling.
It was not a number and itshould have been a number.
But yeah, I literally seemyself upstairs.
I called it my Friday morninghouse Best couple ever.
I still think of them andwonder how their little babies
are doing that lived in thehouse while I was cleaning it.
(17:04):
They also had just everythingwas meticulously organized.
I still try to make my ownhouse like theirs.
I'm upstairs, I'm making a bedon Friday morning and I'm
thinking we have these twoclients.
Our first two big clients wereForrester's Insurance in Toronto
and AstraZeneca, who hasremained a client over the years
, and we had them and it waspicking up and it was starting
(17:24):
to get stressful that I wasn'table to dedicate all my time.
Chris was also working in arestaurant at the time,
sometimes helping clean houses.
I was working in a restauranton the weekends.
It was like a lot and I thoughtwe kind of made friends with
the owner of the restaurant wewere working at and he he's a
good guy and he'd sold a lot ofbusinesses and I thought it
feels like everything.
Like my gut is saying now's thetime, like right, now is the
(17:45):
time, and I and I thought I hadthis rush of like oh, I can talk
to Ted and he can help me sellthis little baby cleaning
business and that might be thebridge.
We need to just get far enoughinto a couple more clients or
enough to keep going, andfinished that house called Chris
.
I'm like I think it's time.
(18:05):
He's like all right, let's meetwith Ted, met with Ted, ted
helped us sell it and thenactually we moved back to the US
.
At that point to reallyestablish the business in the US
.
We knew that it was smart toget going in Canada there's a
different type of receptivenesswith Canadian clients but we
knew that to really build andscale it needed to be a US-based
(18:27):
company.
So now we have a US-basedcompany that owns the Canadian
company.
But it was like, now that we'restarting to pick up, let's go,
let's go back.
So we went back and had thattiny I mean it was a tiny little
baby bridge that that cleaningbusiness sale got us.
But that that was it.
That was enough.
And then it felt desperateenough to we had to focus and
pick it up and make sure weunderstood exactly what we were
(18:48):
selling and who we were sellingto.
It was still scary.
It's still really scarySometimes you need that like.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Okay, like I.
I just have to cut the reins toreally like jump all in.
So do you feel like this is justum, this is a gut question here
on this side?
Do you feel like many of yourdecisions as I mean, you've gone
now to business school you'vebeen told how you're supposed to
think as a business person,which that's educational
(19:13):
business, that's not alwayspractical business, it's both
good and bad.
But do you feel like you havemade many of your decisions as a
business owner more by gut orby like factual side of things?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Yeah, I mean 100% by gut, and it is not what I
recommend.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
But why is it not that what you recommend?
Do you feel like you failed atthat decision?
I think.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
I can't believe it's working.
Like, like I and I mean I was26 when I founded Relishworth I
didn't need, I didn't needthings to be together.
I didn't have kids, I didn'thave a mortgage and nothing I
had a.
I had school loans to pay and Ilike just finished paying them
off.
I paid them real slow, um, so Ithink it's harder that you know
(20:07):
, the more established you get,the more comfortable you get,
and I know a lot of people dothis.
They're like I just want to geta few things under me and then
I'll start a business that thatwould never have worked for me.
I would have, you know, I wouldhave.
I would have told myself whywhat I have is fine and what I,
and I would even tell myselfthat that some somehow justified
to myself that that's actuallywhat I want, because, because
(20:30):
everything was such a mess Ididn't, I didn't have anything
and things were rough in my life, having got, having gotten
divorced, having dealing withall of that, it just felt like
there was nothing to lose.
And I think the nothing to losefeeling is a wonderful feeling
for an entrepreneur, like you'lljust do anything, you'll try
anything and you'll be naive,and that's okay because there's
nothing to lose.
And the more you getestablished, like now, I'm
(20:52):
terrified of if things go wrong,if things don't work Terrified.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I have to like talk about that in therapy.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Yeah, and it's like my whole identity now is it's
not healthy, but it is.
I'm completely attached to thebusiness.
So, yeah, so it was.
Every decision was made by gut,for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Is it still going this?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
direction?
Absolutely not.
Okay, some things are, but wehave now we have my gut.
Back then said hire people whoyou know will make better
decisions than you, and thankGod for that, because that is
that has been the best thingI've ever done, is ever done.
Absolutely.
Hands down is hire the rightpeople and they tell me they're
(21:31):
working hard now to move the waydecisions are made, away from
being founder based, becausethey know my dream is to scale.
I don't want to be a lifestylecompany.
They know that to do that theyhave to wrestle things out of my
hands and they're doing it andthey're good at it and so no,
not anymore.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I still bring gut decisions to them, but they help
me.
When did it switch?
Was it when you hired thosepeople that you switched from
gut to what's factual, or, uh, Idon't think it has switched.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
For me, actually, that's a good, that's a great
way to say it.
I think it we operatedifferently because of the team.
I'm still a gut person, Iprobably always will be, and
actually I think that is stillan asset.
Um, if I moved, I, I, um, Ithink a lot of business owners,
(22:25):
and maybe women especially, feelcompelled to be logical because
we sure know that emotional isnot going to be respected.
But I'm learning more and moreto lean into, to know that I am
a whole person, not just a head.
So to lean into that gut andthen trust my team to do the
(22:47):
work of making sure that itmakes sense, that it's going to
drive us forward, figure out thetiming, which feels very
selfish.
I feel like I need to do all thebackground work bring all the
numbers, bring the spreadsheets,bring the logic, bring the
business plan, bring the case.
And the more certain I am aboutsomething actually, the less
likely it is to be right, themore gut feeling I bring to it.
That feels like guys, there'ssomething here.
(23:08):
They're like OK, we'll figureit out.
I bring it certain like, bringa hard, concrete block to them.
They're like knock, knock,knock.
I don't know, it doesn't makesense.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
So you're setting the vision.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Yeah, that is the right way to say it Exactly, and
that's what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah, I also wonder and this is me.
I often give my intuition adiscredit because I can't put
the framework around it, andI've learned this from other
people in my life.
But the intuition there isactually a framework that
happens Like there's little,like you watch someone and
you're talking to them and youhave this intuition.
They're not really getting itand or there's some.
(23:47):
What reality is?
Your brain is picking up onsmall facial expressions or
small little things that arehappening that you're not
cognitively going.
Oh, it was this distinct thingthat happened.
Your subconscious picked up onthese small like.
So you are methodically workingthrough something.
You are, your gut is seeingsomething, even if you can't
(24:08):
verbalize it and put it into aheadspace.
There is something in your soul,there is something in the
subconscious that is picking upon the cues that say, okay, and
if it's nothing more than my ownhead space of like, okay, I can
no longer juggle thesedifferent things or like you
picking up on all right, thisneeds to be the vision, and I
(24:30):
don't know why, because there'sjust subtle things, and if I
told you what they were, becauseI could verbalize them, you'd
look at me and say that's silly,like, but I no, I just I gotta
like you're not talking fullybut you're giving me these
subtle hints that are telling methat, and to me that's the gut
and that's the intuition that Idon't know how to verbalize.
(24:52):
And I mean it's likeinterviewing too, like I
interview people or likesomething, and I have a gut that
says, oh, there was somethingoff on that, but I don't lean
into it because I can't judgethat like for someone, and so
then I ignore it and hands outall the time my ignoring of that
it was dumb, like I should havetotally picked up on, like the
(25:14):
subtleties, the hints.
And so I think it's reallyhealthy for a owner to be able
to pause and pay attention totheir gut and kind of walk
through that, that space ofthings.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
But do you feel like?
Oh sorry.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
I was going to say do you feel like having put that
infrastructure in place foryourself and now having the team
around you to kind of filterthrough ideas?
Has that put you more in tunewith your vision and you know
kind of the gut sense ofdirection that you're looking
for?
Or do you, are you in a processof like struggling to be away
(25:53):
from the details, cause I knowthat is also kind of part of you
know the owner's journey thatwe hear about a lot.
It's kind of you know, when yougive up seeing every piece of
the nitty gritty, um, you knowyou start to feel like you're
losing touch or feel, you know,like there are things that
you're missing or blindsided by.
So I was just curious what yourexperience has been with that.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean I feel the less I knowthe details and the less I'm
speaking into them, I actuallyfeel like I'm doing a bad job.
You know like I feel like, soit's like some sort of the
pendulum swings and sometimesI'm really good over here on the
vision.
(26:34):
My CFO who's amazing alwayssays we need you swimming out
ahead, not back at the dock,like helping people put their
floaties on.
But when I'm back at the dock,I feel like I'm doing things, I
feel like I'm helping and thatpeople are like thanks, angela,
you're such a good leader.
And they're like get out of myway.
That's actually what they'resaying.
(26:54):
They're like please, I know howto put my floaties on.
And they're like but I don'tknow where to go.
So please can you just swim.
And I'm like, yeah, but if I'mjust swimming, it's just fun,
I'm just having a great time,it's so selfish.
And they're like yes, just go.
But that is sometimes.
I know that some days I feelclear on that and actually this.
I'm feeling so grateful forthis conversation right now
because it's conversations likethis that remind me like really
(27:17):
clearly set me on that path.
I'm like right, okay, so todayI feel pretty confident that I'm
going to go swim ahead, but I'mgoing to get less confident
about the fact that I can'tnecessarily see.
I'm not watching anyone, youknow I'm not.
There's no one for me to swimtoward, so sometimes I go
backwards.
How do you make sure they'refollowing you?
They got their swimmies on.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
How do you make sure they're following you?
They got their swimmies on.
How do you make sure they'refollowing your vision instead of
going the current whatever?
I'm really bad at analogies.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
I love it, the rich-eyed thing that takes them
to the side.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
The other thing over there.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Something about salmon.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Salmon.
That's great.
Um, um, I, we do have a ton ofinternal systems and processes
and things like.
We have quite a structureinternally.
That gives me pretty goodindicators of how things are
going.
Um, we are maybe to uh, to avery, very hard-working culture.
(28:19):
Um, we have a meeting structurethat's every day the same for
all the teams.
We have management meetings, wehave kps, you know all the
things you're supposed to have.
But like not just to track ourperformance but to track whether
or not, culturally, we'removing in the right direction,
because in part of our, ourpurpose is that in or maybe not.
(28:41):
Purpose isn't quite the rightway to say it.
It's more like, I guess anindicator of whether or not
we're doing the right workexternally is if things are
going right internally and ourinternal cultural needs to be a
reflection of what we're tryingto build in companies.
So if we see internally thatthere's toxicity or that there's
people just not caring aboutthe quality of their work, which
(29:03):
is fine Actually, I think it'skind of fine in a lot of
companies, but not in this typeof company.
We're a mission-oriented work.
You have to.
Am I allowed to swear on thispodcast?
I'm fine with it, Okay, you haveto give a shit Like if you
don't.
And we have like like, give ashit.
Indicators.
So those things really helpedme.
And and again, talking aboutthem right now is reminding me
(29:24):
like yeah, Angela, you don'thave to be in the details,
because the details are tellingyou whether or not.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Things are on track.
That's fine.
My next question was like whydo you feel the need to go back
and help put them put on theswimmies If you have all of
those things to tell you thatthey don't know how to put on
the swimmies?
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Yeah, such a good question, and one of the most
annoying things about mybusiness coach is that she
always brings it back to me.
I'm like I have this problemwith this person.
I need to give them somefeedback.
This thing is happening.
And she's like okay, so let'stalk about why that's
frustrating you so much.
I'm like, no, give themfeedback.
And she's like, okay, and first.
And it's so frustrating thatevery time she's like she'll
help me identify.
Like, let's say, I'm feelingreally insecure about how I'm
(30:06):
contributing, so I default backto these old ways that that used
to be the right way and thatused to get me affirmation and
recognition, and those were theways.
Those are the things I feelstarted to feel so great about.
But as soon as you're great atit, because you're great at it,
you don't have to do it anymore.
That's the whole point.
You move to the next thing, andI think it's part of the danger
of a founder led company too,because I will get to well, I
(30:30):
mean, probably I guess I couldkeep trying to upscale myself,
but I will probably get to thepoint that I can't lead this
company anymore because it movesbeyond my skill level and that
is scary.
So going back to where I'm like,oh, this feels so safe and
secure, I'm doing great, is justa weird thing that I need for
me.
So that's why she always bringsme back to like what's
happening in you, because whatyou don't want to do is default
(30:50):
back over there.
Where, why would you givefeedback to someone who has a
manager?
Talk to their man?
You know, it's just somethingvery simple, like that.
It shouldn't.
It shouldn't like follow thesystem, follow the thing that's
already been put in place.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
So if you enjoy doing the work that you know and yet
you don't want to be a lifestylebusiness like, why is it that
you want to be something biggerthan yourself, If something
bigger than yourself kind offreaks you out?
Oh gosh, that's a greatquestion.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Sorry, I like being freaked out.
I need to feel like I'm jumpingoff a cliff, but also so you're
an adrenaline junkie, I guess.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
so Not really, that's not something.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
I think of you about.
No, it's more like one of mycore values is change.
Okay, so I need things I needto change.
I need things to change.
I need things to not feelsteady, static and boring.
Okay, yes, I'll bring that oneup in therapy this week.
I hear how that sounds.
I hear how that sounds.
(32:05):
But as we've built the business, the thing that.
I've learned and started to seeback with the cleaning business
is, I love the most, building aculture.
I love the most, creating abusiness that can be duplicated.
So we talk about it as atransformative workplace and
transformative volunteering iswhat we do with companies is
based on transformative learningtheory.
It's not.
(32:25):
It's not.
It's not meant to be synonymouswith like meaningful.
It's.
It's a.
It's a very specific set oflearning behaviors and where we,
we are a learning culture.
Everyone that works here isobsessed with learning, and I
want to put the structurestogether in a way that, as we
scale, other companies can dothe same thing, and it's one of
(32:46):
the things that motivates me isproving to people that things
can be done that they didn'tbelieve in.
Again, that comes fromsomewhere for sure, but I want
to prove to companies that it'spossible to have a culture where
people give a shit and to havea culture where people feel like
, yes, this is who.
(33:07):
Years or six months can say whoI became.
In my experience, there issomething I will never let go of
.
I'm so grateful.
That kind of thing.
Yeah, so that's the build, butthat the way the team.
(33:30):
Yeah, go ahead, sorry, go ahead.
Well, I was just going to say,the way the team pushes me
forward is is helping me takethe next challenge of building
that culture.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
So what has been the hardest challenge of building
that culture?
Speaker 4 (33:45):
So what has been the?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
hardest part of creating the culture you want
Just people.
What about them?
Is it the like getting them tochange?
Is it the like I hired thewrong person, I got to get rid
of them?
Is it finding the people?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Like what is it about that?
It's probably the same thingwe've been talking about.
That it can't depend on me.
I want to acknowledge what yousaid at the very beginning of
this conversation.
There is an experience that Iknow I can create for people
(34:23):
where they feel seen and heard.
That is something I've learned,for whatever reason in my life,
and I can't do it for 20 peopleand I can't do it for more than
20.
So it's got to be somethingwhere I understand that this is
not a gift that I own for myselfthat many, many, many people
are able to create space whereothers feel seen and heard.
(34:43):
So, yes, it's about hiring thosepeople to be leaders within the
company and to make sure that Ihave the space and myself to
focus on those people those fourmanagers I have right now that
are guiding everybody else.
They need to be my whole world.
But what I'm not good at isteaching them how to make people
feel seen and heard, so theyjust have to have that in them.
(35:04):
I don't know how to do that.
I don't know how to teach it.
I've never been good at it, butI can spend time with them and
just let them see how it feelsso that they can create that for
others.
And I'm giving myself adviceright now because, again, it
(35:24):
doesn't feel that clear on aday-to-day basis.
It just feels like it almostfeels like I'm looking for
problems to solve, because Ilove solving problems, instead
of just focusing on on thosefour people and then more people
as we grow and letting them doit their way, which isn't
necessarily how I would do it.
That's maybe the hardest partis seeing them make decisions or
interact with people in a waythat I'm like, wow, what, why
did you do it that way?
But it's fine.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
What's next for you?
I see a day when, maybe likethe day that I was making the
bed in the Friday morning house,I will think, okay, I'm not CEO
of this company anymore.
Like, let's, let's move forward, and and and and.
Then I don't know what it'll befrom from there, but I look
forward to a day that I can stepback and almost in a way that
(36:11):
no one really notices.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Do you have a plan, Like do you have people aligned
in your brain you don't have tosay that them out loud, Um but
like do you have this likewhat's the succession plan?
That's the word, sort of thing,Exit strategy.
Yeah, those technical accountum businessy phrases.
Do you have that prepared?
Or is this one of these gutthings where you're like this is
where I'm going.
(36:34):
I'm not really sure how I'mgoing to get there, but we're
just going to keep steppinguntil the path becomes clear.
Which, where are?
Speaker 4 (36:40):
you, it's more of the second one right now.
I'm always surprised how thingschange Right now.
I would love if my current fourmanagers took over the company
someday.
Like five years, three years,it doesn't matter how long it is
.
To me it could be ten, it couldbe more.
When I see small companies withthe same CEO for like 20 years,
(37:00):
I do tend to think, really, andI've been CEO for what?
Six, seven years?
Really, it's more than that,it's 2016.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Have you looked into franchising it's more than six
years.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
But okay, yeah, 2016, though Sorry Okay, yes, yeah,
you're right.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
I'm the one who can't .
Franchising is an interestingidea, um, we've looked at.
There's a lot of independentconsultants that do this work.
Now I'm I, there's a.
There are.
There's a lot there that Idon't know how to manage yet
licensing, um, but I love thatidea.
There's a?
Speaker 1 (37:35):
um.
I was at a presentation acouple of weeks back and the
wild birds guy.
Oh yeah, he is fantastic.
He presented, he built hisbusiness to tens of millions and
you know it was off the back ofjust simple.
You know organic growth Okay.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
I'm going to look into that.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
That was really, really good and, if you need to,
I can get you connected withhim.
He had a board of advisors.
He still uses them, because itsounds like you don't want to
grow to a bigger company, butyou still want to grow.
So this is a way of expandingand going sideways.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
I love that and we've also and this is applicable to
what you're saying we have twoother business lines now that
aren't consulting Cause likeyou're saying.
I think implying in what you'resaying is also that consulting
is really really hard to scale.
Um, and that became clear inthe last few years and even the
way that I'm like I it, it issuch a weight on me how hard my
(38:34):
consulting team works Like it isso stressful and I did that
work for a really long time so Ihave such empathy for them.
So we have two other lines ofbusiness now.
One is we do these big trainingsthat we call RW Experiences and
then we built a technologyplatform that is essentially
self-serve consulting, where weput everything that we do into
frameworks and how-to guides andtemplates that companies can
(38:57):
use and subscribe.
So you know obviously thatone's a nicely scalable one that
companies can use and subscribe.
So you know obviously thatone's a nicely scalable one Once
we fix the glitches.
It's only in its second year,but I look forward to that one
potentially even being somethingthat we can grow to the point
that it's very useful for othersin the space.
We don't do, for example,sustainability, but if we could
(39:19):
support sustainability expertsby having their templates and
how-to guides on the platformand then that can lead into more
consulting for them andpotentially do that for all the
topics within social impact.
That would be pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
How has it changed through the generations as
generational?
You've got millennials comingin you're probably one Then
you've got Generation Z or Zed,whatever it is, and then alphas
coming in.
How are you seeing thecorporate responsibility
changing?
Speaker 4 (39:52):
I wish there was more of a pattern that I believed in
there.
I it doesn't.
It doesn't what.
What I, what we actually seeout, see in our work anyway,
playing out in patterns and Ithink it's probably quite
different in other areas of workum is when people move into
positions of power, whatevergeneration they're from, their
(40:14):
behaviors change, Um, the thingsthey care about change.
When people come in fromuniversity or from a new
certification, whatevergeneration they're from, they
come in with idealism and hope,and when and when people uh find
purpose in their work and theyfeel like they're seen and heard
, they do a really good job attheir work.
(40:35):
I think the things thatmillennials or gen z or gen
whatever, say out loud isdifferent than what boomers felt
like they were allowed to sayout loud, but I think humans are
humans.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Okay, so do you feel like your passion is still there
for everything you've built, ordo you feel at all that it's
started to fade, as you've beenCEO for six?
Speaker 1 (40:55):
years.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Or all of the dynamics you're trying to figure
out, and you have to swimforward Like do you still?
Do you struggle with findingthat vision and that passion, or
do you feel like it's stillthere?
You just got to turn around andlook at it.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
The only thing that fades is my I wouldn't assume
this was such a cheesy phrasebut my belief in myself.
Like when I start to feel likeI stuck at it, then it's like
the passion fades.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Is there something that triggers your?
I suck at that most.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
I'm so attached, my identity is so attached to the
success of the business, likelast year was a really bad year.
It's really hard on so manylevels, really bad Like
financially people-wise.
Financially people-wise, I hadto let so many levels really bad
Like financially people-wise.
Financially people-wise, I hadto let so many people go Big
investments into big hires thatdidn't work, that I made big
promises about.
There was a moment toward thebeginning of the year when I sat
(41:50):
down with one of my verytrusted team members and, in
tears, said tell me, I can dothis.
And we sat there and gotourselves all riled up, believed
we could do it, just everythingwas going to work out.
And I also said I don't know ifI said it, but there were like
three things.
I'm like these are the threethings that I just need these
(42:11):
three things to go well, I don'tneed the whole world to work
out, just these three things.
Then at the end of the year, Iwas in some reflection session
and the person said what do youfeel proud of this year?
And I was like nothing, causethose three things all failed
massively nothing.
And luckily, they thenresponded it was someone who's
(42:31):
very neurodivergent and directand I needed it so much.
And they said and and is itokay?
And I was like oh, actuallyyeah.
And they were like and are youokay?
I'm like actually yeah.
And they were like and are youokay?
I'm like yeah, I'm okay.
So that set me.
Yeah, that that's it.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
It's like okay, let's keep going do you feel like
you're still in that headspaceor this year's been?
Speaker 4 (42:51):
amazing.
This year nothing's reallychanged.
So that's the thing.
I swear it was thatconversation, that person.
Nothing's really changed.
I mean, things are, things are.
We've had some exciting moments.
Financially, we had our firstcorporate event, which went
beautifully, like confusinglybeautifully.
I can't find anything tocriticize about it.
This morning I was like maybeit didn't go as well as I
thought two weeks ago, likemaybe something was wrong, maybe
(43:13):
people are talking badly aboutit and I'm like what are you
doing?
It was great.
Even the feedback was like.
The worst feedback was it couldhave been longer.
So there's amazing thingshappening for sure, but but
fundamentally, nothing haschanged.
It's it's been a mindset shiftand I'm and.
So this year, I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Do for your mindset shift.
Like I journal or I have toread books, Like it helps me
shift out.
What is there something you door is?
Speaker 4 (43:39):
it just the cheesiest thing ever.
My team member gave me thislast year as a secret Santa gift
.
Angela's words I write myselfletters.
It's amazing.
It's amazing.
My coach originally encouragedme to do it.
She's amazing too.
It's like it has been quitelife-changing.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
Huh, like as if you're yourself, but outside of
your body, like that, your brainis like a different person,
like the wise part of me, Okay,the one that actually like as if
I'm talking to someone elsekind of.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
But there's all these parts that just get freaked out
or like sometimes I feel likeI'm eight again and I'm like
acting out of that person.
That's what.
Speaker 5 (44:19):
I was going to say is there's that's interesting and
I wonder if that's a little bitof what you're doing, because
there is kind of a therapeutictechnique of like parenting your
inner child very mindfully andliterally, um you know, kind of
going back and speaking to them.
And a lot of times people dosay they realize in doing that
like, oh, I would never speak toa child the way that I speak to
(44:43):
myself.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
Exactly.
That's exactly it I meaninternal family systems, is a
form of therapy that I think isreally cool.
And I, yeah, even even when, umand again, I think this is
common for women, but I thinkit's common for all people.
But when you ask yourself, whatdo I need and the answer is I
don't know, there's a practiceto start there, because a little
(45:06):
kid coming up to you saying I'mhaving a bad day, I feel bad,
you'd be like, oh my gosh, whatdo you need?
Let's put you over here with abunch of blankets, I'll bring
you a cup of tea.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
And like don't I do that for my?
I want to.
I want to do that for myself.
Yeah, it's, it is I say this alot that for business owners, um
, you could put in all theprocesses, all the people, all
of that stuff, but if the veryfirst thing is, your mindset is
not and your own personalperspective is out of alignment,
you won't like all the rest ofthat stuff, you're going to step
on yourself.
You're just going to, and youwill go through seasons where
you're stepping on yourself, andmaybe you just feel like you're
(45:44):
stepping on yourself more thanyou actually are, but it's just
there, and how do you giveyourself grace in the midst of
it is a just an interestingspace of things and so Well,
okay.
So at the end of these, we liketo ask a few just fun, random
questions like and you can justtell us your thoughts on them?
Speaker 5 (46:08):
We were calling it the lightning round, but it ends
up being like one of the longersegments of things, because
everyone likes to suck a lotmore stuff.
So we're going to start callingit the slow round, or something
.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
We should All right.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
So you're at a business meeting.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
What drink are you drinking?
Scotch and networking.
What'd you say?
I said scotch at a businessmeeting.
Speaker 4 (46:29):
Sometimes when you have a small company that's your
own, you can do that.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
That's exactly true.
I love that.
I've had people say well, whattime of day is the meeting?
And I'm like I don't know Cause.
There's your answer and you'relike scotch, doesn't matter if
it's in the morning or in theevening I'm drinking my scotch.
Speaker 5 (46:43):
Scotch and scrambled eggs, please.
Thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
So my other half would always get an
old-fashioned at one breakfastjoint every time and I'm like
it's 8 in the morning, doesn'tmatter, I'm getting.
It's eight in the morning,doesn't matter, I'm getting old
fashioned.
I'm there.
I'm there for that, okay,favorite person to follow
podcast, instagram, facebook,tiktok.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
Oh, oh, oh, oh Okay, gabor Mate, who
G-A-B-O-R-M-A-T-E with a Anaccent.
Yeah, that's what they'recalled.
Right, yeah, they're called.
I like that.
It's like a really basic word heis.
His first book that I fell inlove with is called In the Realm
(47:34):
of Hungry Ghosts.
It's about addiction, but it's,like you guys, it's all related
to business.
Everything he's ever written isrelated to business.
And then the one that I read, Idon't know every couple months
is called when the Body Says no,also what we've been talking
about today.
But like all the stress youknow that we hold in, how we've
(47:54):
learned in society that ourbrains and our bodies are
disconnected, and that's crazy.
So it's a.
Really it's like a morepedestrian version of the the
body keeps the score.
Like a more um, palatableversion.
I love it, love it, love it.
It's amazing.
And then he followed up thatone with a book called the myth
of normal, which also is or youtold me to read that maybe we
(48:15):
talked about it.
I do talk about these threebooks too much.
His everything he's got onyoutube, everything he's
Instagram like he's he's like 80and he's just started this new
phase of his career, which isalso very inspiring.
He's absolutely amazing.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
That's kind of fun.
See, these are the things.
I love them.
I learned stuff.
Speaker 5 (48:32):
Yeah, I like when I don't know who these people are
and I'm like, all right, I'mlooking this up.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
Like spend the day.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
Um, how late is fashionably late 15 minutes.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
Okay, I tell people it's whenever I show up, that's
when it's fashionably late.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
See, I want to hang out with you.
This is, this is like such athat was a personality test
right there.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
I had somebody say on one of these like if well, it
depends on if now and I alwaysthink of this it depends on if
it's a Zoom call or like inperson.
Like because if it's a Zoomcall, it's zero minutes late.
You cannot Zero minutes.
And I'm like Never I was latetoday though, yeah, you were,
that's okay.
And I'm like oh shoot, I'veshould be on something and I run
(49:17):
late to my team's Zoom meetingsall the time.
I'm like I'm again fashionablylate is whenever I show up.
Doesn't matter, I love it.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
All right, your biggest pet peeve.
I have so many Brooke, oh gosh,I'm thinking of work things,
but it doesn't have to be.
Ah, this is such a goodquestion.
I guess pet peeves.
(49:51):
You know what?
It's probably some of theclassic things like um, okay,
let's, let's use this one.
I'm not, I'm not going to usethe phrase mansplaining but I am
going to say on any call thatI'm going to exactly on any call
or any meeting where, literallymultiple times, somebody
(50:16):
repeats back to someone whatthey just said and take credit
for it, like I, that's like the.
That's like the times I need toput myself on mute, ideally
turn my video off too, so I canjust be like, like the, the rage
that I feel it's it's actuallyit's one of the things that my
coach would be like okay, sowhat's going on in you?
And I'd be like, are youkidding me right now?
Speaker 3 (50:40):
that's awesome I love it.
You're like it's notmansplaining, it's just anyone
oversplaining to anyone takingcredit for it.
Speaker 4 (50:47):
It's usually like white men, but you know uh,
what's your personal motto?
Personal motto Nothing to prove.
Speaker 3 (51:01):
Nothing to prove.
Speaker 4 (51:02):
Nothing to prove why it's like really, from features
prominently in my letters tomyself, like where I'll be.
Like, dear Angela, today youhave nothing to prove, today you
can just go in, listen.
You know, man, my coach isprobably right, I probably
mansplain.
That's probably why it's suchan issue to me, because I do
(51:23):
need to remind myself to go intoa situation and just listen and
be present and not feel likeit's on me to have the right
answer, because I do.
I really.
I really get scared that peoplethink that.
Speaker 5 (51:35):
Is that something that's inherent to you?
Or is that a product of, justfrankly, being a woman in, you
know, a male-dominated space andbeing used to kind of having to
be overly, yeah, effective andoverly intelligent, and you know
all of these like you, you dokind of, you know, feel the need
(51:56):
to prove yourself, I wouldimagine, in some spaces, or did
at some point.
Speaker 4 (52:00):
Absolutely.
And, by the way, it's so niceto hear a man's voice say, in a
male dominated world, like thatwas really satisfying.
Um, I'm like thanks, thank you.
Yeah, yeah, I think you're.
You're right, it probably isalmost.
I'd love to speak to a womanthat doesn't deal with that at
all.
Yeah, to be like, who are you?
Tell me your secrets.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
Yeah, I don't know if I've ever thought about if I
deal with that or not.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
Okay, well, let's talk some more.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
I'm probably I probably really do, I can tell
you that just from havingconversations with you venting
that you absolutely have.
Speaker 5 (52:34):
I do.
I don't think I've ever saidthose statements to myself.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
Okay, what color do you think of when you think of a
business owner?
Speaker 4 (52:48):
I don't know why I thought of blue.
Why did I think of blue?
Speaker 3 (52:51):
I don't know, but it's just interesting.
I have some people who sayblack, some people who said red,
I think, and so it's just aninteresting.
Like you have a blue.
Now she's going to talk to hertherapist about that one, I
think, and so it's just aninteresting like you have a blue
.
Speaker 4 (53:02):
Now she's going to talk to me about that I am.
You guys should track this andthen, like, do some sort of
study on the colors people sayover time.
Speaker 3 (53:07):
That would be very interesting and like what the
personalities are associatedwith this yeah.
Yeah, totally, the gypsy peoplehave the blue.
Speaker 4 (53:17):
It's not even my favorite color or anything, so
that's very interesting huh,that's very cool.
Speaker 3 (53:21):
All right, and what is your superpower?
Speaker 4 (53:29):
I suppose it is a thing that feels true to me,
which is making people feel likethey're the only person in the
world when I'm talking with them, and it does.
It feels true.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
It is amazing about Angela Like I will totally tell
you all of that, like I'll watchher.
Like she lives in Baltimore.
I live in Indianapolis.
I see her like when I go visitmy brother, but I watch her like
Instagram things or Facebookthings when she like celebrates
(54:01):
somebody else, and it is likeyou are dead on about like just
really celebrating people andseeing who they are and just
thriving in that, which isprobably why you're also really
good at creating a culture thatpeople want to replicate,
because you take the time toreally sit down and like focus
and be very present to whomeveryou're in there with.
I would a hundred percent agreewith you on that is a very good
(54:24):
superpower for you and, yeah, Iwould almost say I'm jealous
for your superpower.
Speaker 4 (54:31):
Oh, we can trade.
I would really like some ofyours.
Speaker 5 (54:37):
So we typically wrap with two kind of more
existential questions.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
And the first one being define success for us.
Speaker 4 (54:52):
Personal or business?
Speaker 3 (54:54):
You decide that question.
Speaker 4 (54:56):
Oh man, they make it tough.
Success is maybe.
This is both maybe, but I thinkof it as two words keep hitting
my mind, so I'll share themboth.
One is satisfaction, which isdifferent than happiness, and
the other one is generosity, orthe feeling of being generous.
(55:18):
If you feel like, yeah, maybethat's the one, If you feel
satisfied and you feel like youcan be generous, okay, that's it
.
Speaker 5 (55:29):
I love.
That In turn define failure forus now.
Speaker 4 (55:36):
Ah, that's the scariest word Failure, failure,
that's the scariest word.
Failure Okay, if I've failed,that means it means Okay.
So yeah, for me, on the timesthat I have felt like a failure
personally maybe it was a slicetoo it is when I feel completely
(56:02):
disconnected from myself, likeI'm not even here, I've missed
out on my life that's veryinteresting, which is why, when
you came back to the person saidis it okay?
Speaker 3 (56:12):
that you didn't complete those things and you're
like, yeah, and I'm satisfied,like you can, yeah, I was here
for it, but yeah, I was stillhere.
I things, oh well, those didn'tget done.
So I was still successful and Ididn't fail because I felt
myself writing letters to myself, which is why that probably is
so good for you.
Speaker 4 (56:32):
You're so right, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (56:34):
That's interesting, that's kind of cool.
Speaker 4 (56:38):
What a great therapy session, you guys, thank you I
don't mean to be a therapist.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
A therapist would say oh my God, brooke, you talk too
much.
No, no.
Entrepreneurship and therapyare hand in hand.
You can't help it.
You can't.
I mean, it really comes back toyour head space somewhere in
there.
And that's the journey.
Like how did you get from?
I am working, you know, I justgraduated, I'm working in a
(57:06):
church to all of a sudden you'rerunning a huge company, a
decent-sized company with 20people having a huge amount of
impact, and a lot of people arelike it just happens overnight
and it doesn't.
It's such an emotional journey.
And then if you're like I'mgoing to step and do this and I
just got blown up on, a bunch ofpeople were pissed at me and
(57:27):
did it like that.
It's not, you aren't alone inthat.
And what does that look like?
And how does it look to createa business with a friend?
I didn't even ask you all ofthose questions Like and and
kind of not, not, it's just,it's a, it's a journey.
It's hard and there are daysit's good and there are days
it's bad.
And I think that's that's whatwe want people to walk away with
(57:49):
is that you can either resonatewith this person or you don't,
and but maybe you heardsomething that helps you with
something you're dealing withtoday.
So you know, that's the funjazz, thank you very, very much.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
I always love talking .
Yes, thank you Thanks.
Thank you all this has been fun.
Speaker 5 (58:07):
Angela, do you have anything that you like want to
plug?
Place that people can check youout If this conversation is
relevant to them, website,anything like that you want to
drop?
Speaker 4 (58:19):
on the end here.
Website is realizeworthcom.
We'd love for people to checkus out.
I'm super active on LinkedIn.
That's probably the place,business-wise, to find me.
Angela Parker.
Speaker 5 (58:28):
Awesome, thank you.
Hello and welcome to the Owner's Odyssey, the podcast
where we delve deep into thetransformative stories of
courageous business owners whohave embarked on an
extraordinary adventure.
I'm Zach Jones and I'm BrookeGattia.
We're here to explore the reallife experiences of
entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Each episode, we'll embark on a quest to uncover the
trials, triumphs andtransformations of remarkable
individuals who dared to answerthe call of entrepreneurship.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Like all adventurers, our guests have faced their
fair share of challenges,vanquished formidable foes and
braved the unknown.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a
seasoned business owner orsimply an avid listener hungry
for captivating stories.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
The Owner's Odyssey is here to help you level up.
So join us as we embark on thisepic expedition.
This is the Owner's Odyssey.
Let's start our adventure.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Today we are meeting with Angela Parker with Realized
Worth.
Realized Worth is a companythat works with for-profit
larger companies such asMicrosoft and have thousands of
people and help them developcorporate social responsibility
programs.
So helping them volunteer,helping them be philanthropic,
(01:24):
how to create really goodcultures within their companies.
And so it was a greatconversation and I think you
will enjoy tuning in and hearingabout how she has struggled
with the creating a culture andbringing a certain amount of set
(01:44):
of values into her business andhow to cultivate that and how
to get over her mental blocks tocreating that space in her
company.
So I met you, oh, 25 years ago.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Something really long ago you were working in a
church and life was changing andI don't even there's lots of
stories to all of that side ofthings.
But somewhere around that timeyou started branching out and
started a business calledRealized Worth and I think I've
(02:25):
been with you the whole process,like as far as just I've known
you through all of that side ofthings.
Realized Worth is a really cooland I'm gonna butcher horribly
what it is that you do, onopsisof it.
You help the big companiesencourage their people to be
(02:50):
corporately responsible and so,without the big terminology of
corporate responsibility andwhat that is of engaging, kind
of philanthropic engaging involunteer, engaging well in the
community around them, and howdo businesses encourage their
people to do that?
(03:10):
And I always thought that wasthe coolest business topic just
to be like both a business thatis for profit but doing a thing
that is really good for thecommunity and kind of where that
that space is.
And so I have and Angela is avery call her.
(03:34):
She kind of has a gypsiness toher, so she's super like,
intuitive to things, verygracious and kind and
encouraging, but has thisuniqueness to who she is that it
draws me in.
I'm totally engaged often withwho you are and kind of your
(03:56):
vision and your drive and howyou care for people.
So I'm not really sure how thatrelates to a gypsy, but you
just kind of do your own beatAnyhow.
So I asked that you'd come inand kind of share with us a
little bit of what has been yourjourney.
How did you decide to do thisas a business?
(04:18):
What got you from a church todoing this for-profit thing?
Yeah, what's your journey inthat side of things?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Oh, thanks for asking , brooke.
It's always fun to talk topeople who have been here the
whole time.
I believe you've been myaccountant since the very
beginning and my friend sincebefore that.
So it is quite a thing toreminisce with people who've
been on the journey.
And when you were sharing, youknow saying here's kind of the
elevator, and when you weresharing, you know saying here's
(04:50):
kind of the elevator pitch ofwhat the business is, I kind of
internally laughed because I wasjust at a conference last week
with all people that do my kindof work and somebody got on
stage and said do any of yourgrandparents understand what you
do?
And everybody just burst outlaughing because it is one of
those things that you try toexplain.
And you know, with each newgeneration, people understand a
little more and now we have ageneration of people coming into
the work world that areactually educated in what we now
(05:12):
refer to as corporate socialimpact, which is annoying
because I'm like, ok, talk to mein 10 years, when you've
experienced how difficult thisindustry is, it's good and you
feel like you're going to beable to do good.
And then you spend a lot oftime feeling like you might feel
if you work in a nonprofit,where you are under-resourced,
under-supported, notwell-understood and always
(05:33):
fighting for something that youthought you believed in but
can't quite get to.
So we can talk more about whatthat looks like in practice, but
it is technically that theelevator phrase is we design and
implement corporatevolunteering programs that are
scalable, measurable andmeaningful.
Those are the three things thatcompanies are always looking
for in this space.
(05:53):
And now I know that, after along journey, it's been 16 years
this year.
I think we were founded in 2008.
Um, and, as Brooke said, we myco chris jarvis, and I both came
from the church and non-profitworld and I think maybe, like
many of us, we experienced adissidence, dissonance in in the
(06:16):
space we were in, in the beliefsystem we existed within and
wanted to find a way to, to, to,to find resonance to, to find
what is the thing that feels notquite right about this space
but that we still believe in andthat we want to take forward in
our careers, in our lives in away that can direct us, can feel
(06:38):
, you know, a sense of meaning.
People want to bring theirwhole self to work.
That whole whole thing.
Chris Jarvis and I both really,really wanted that.
For me personally, I grew up inPortland Oregon in the 90s, like
Hole and Nirvana were my bands,like I was never gonna work for
the man, so so so resolvingthat that dissonance was a was
(07:00):
was definitely not what Iexpected to move toward the
business world.
But the dissonance is where itstarted and I can tell a little
bit more of that story if youwant me to go that direction.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, do whatever your journey is.
We're just going to organicallyflow.
I can be a gypsy too, so that'smy statement we can organically
flow.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, well, there are a lot of you know Um, well,
there, there, there's there,there are a lot of you know a
lot of the sort of personaldetails that I think are
important.
I won't get deep into it now,but for anyone who listens to
your podcast, I think there'sthis idea that we want to
separate um work from ourpersonal lives, and I understand
what people mean by that.
(07:39):
They mean leave your work athome and spend time with your
family.
Let it go.
Don't let that stress guideeverything you do in your
personal lives.
But I think there's somethingabout us, and probably the
reason that we even use thatphrase is because we know that
it is connected.
We know that we want to careabout the thing we spend all day
doing.
We know that it would be sogreat to live a life that felt
(08:01):
integrated somehow, even with ahealthy separation between being
able to go out and play yeahyeah, yeah, exactly so.
So my, my personal life, my, my,my divorce, my experience of
growing up in a in a householdthat was very patriarchal, my
understanding that women womencan lead but only if they lead
(08:25):
children.
And then, eventually, lookingat the nonprofit space that I
was in, the church space, andthinking probably what a lot of
people think, which is wouldn'tit be great to be well-resourced
and make a decent salary and towork in the space where the
influence lives, likecorporations, where the
influence lives Likecorporations we know all day,
(08:46):
eight hours a day, if not more,are influencing the lives and
the decisions of hundreds ofthousands of people in this
country, hundreds of thousands,millions, and then around the
world.
It's just, it's wild.
So that's where influence lives.
So my little Portland hippieheart started to move toward
what if I did want to work inbusiness?
Who am I betraying?
(09:07):
What terrible things am Isaying about who I am and what I
believe in?
And then I left what I was inand it was catastrophic.
I left my marriage, I left thework that I was in, I left
working in the church, all thethings that I had built my whole
life up to say this is what Ibelieve in and moved away from
that and just did what people dowhen they start over and just
(09:29):
figured out how to make a livingEarly on as you know, brooke,
that was cleaning houses.
That's what I knew how to do.
I had done that in college andI was like I got to make a
living but I can't get into ajob that's going to keep me in
it.
I got to stay in something thatI want to get out of.
While I think about where thisis all going, what am I doing?
Cleaned houses and actuallyfound so much joy in building
(09:51):
that up as a little tinybusiness and having clients that
I got to decide how I wanted toplease them not just doing the
work, building relationship andthinking about what it would be
like to train people up in thecleaning business and give them
a great experience and thenstarted to feel what it was to
like, feel this deepsatisfaction in creating a tiny
(10:13):
little culture in my own littlework world, and I think that,
without me being reallyconscious of it, led to going.
Oh yeah, I think I.
I think I like this businessthing Like this is.
This is cool and maybe there'sa whole different way to do it,
not different from every othercompany.
My approach to business isn'tnew, but there are.
But it's hard to keep it going.
It's hard to keep building aculture that people want to be
(10:34):
in.
So, at the same time, chrisJarvis was working on what if we
could build, we being him,being himself and like the world
.
He wasn't thinking about usco-founding anything at the time
, but he was thinking what?
What would it be like to createsomething where nonprofits
could get the kind of volunteersthat they want without wasting
a lot of time on volunteers?
(10:55):
Because nonprofits do folks,nonprofits waste so much time on
volunteers that they hope willturn into something good.
And yeah, we could do a whole,we could do the whole
conversation on just that.
And and so he started writingabout this, working through this
.
He he was meeting with peopleand he met with this nonprofit
(11:17):
in Toronto and he was like Iwant to consult with you and
help build this system which hehad built in previous places.
That will get you the kind ofvolunteers that you need
long-term, these advocates foryour organization.
They were like that's great, wecan't afford a consultant.
And he was like, oh right,right, right, right.
Yeah, you're not right, that'sof course.
But they did say and this waslike 2007, they did say but we
(11:38):
have these companies coming tous all the time saying can you,
you know, like this Thursday-ishlet us bring in a whole bunch
of executives because they'll behere from out of town and they
want, you know, they want ameaningful experience and they
want to get their hands dirty,but like not too dirty because
they'll be in suits and theywant to.
You know, they want to have asense of purpose that they
associate with their company,but like not purpose, that
creeps them out.
(11:58):
So like, can you find a balancefor us, volunteer opportunity,
and also, can you make surethere's a barbecue and a photo
op?
Can you do all that by Thursday?
And the nonprofit's like, yes,because maybe a check will come
with that.
So that was when they actuallysaid can you work with those
companies to come to us aspartners?
So that started Chris off inthat world while I'm over here
(12:20):
trying to figure my life out.
And then eventually, we hadconversations where we're like,
oh, trying to figure my life out.
And then eventually we hadconversations where we're like,
oh, this is the thing thatbrings it all together, this is
the thing where we caninfiltrate the system, the
system where influence lives andstart working with people to
bring them into the nonprofitworld from companies, connect
them with meaning, but not justand I mean specifically not
(12:44):
going into these organizationssaying we're going to do it our
way, we're going to be the whitesaviors coming in to make you
like us.
We're going to come into yourspace and learn and become
different ourselves.
We're going to become the bestversions of ourselves through
this experience.
So that was when you know a lotof what I was learning and
building.
This tiny little cleaningbusiness moved into motivation
to actually go to businessschool, which moved into this,
(13:07):
this approach, this consultingapproach that we now do with
companies.
Now there's a.
You know, as you know, havingbuilt multiple businesses
yourself, what you start with isa version of what you have 15
years later, but it, it's, it'sadorable, it's adorable to look
back to that.
Yeah, yeah.
So so you know, we've now nowwe have just 20 employees and we
(13:30):
built up quite a quite aconsulting business with some
really meaningful company likebig, big names who are really
into this that we've been ableto build this approach up with.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So at what point in time did you figure out that
that approach could make money?
Was it that conversation thatyou had with them, or was it a
different point where you'relike, oh, there's where the like
monetary side of that piececomes into play?
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Honestly, brooke, if I had gone to business school
first, I would never have donethis, because I don't think it
would have ever made sense.
I don't think anyone would havesat down with us and been like
this will make money.
They would have said isn'tvolunteering free?
Yeah, and we?
And that's what we've heardfrom so many people.
I think, um, the thing we've hadto do what people have to do
(14:19):
internally at companies to whatcorporate social responsibility
or social impact teams have todo, which is here's how this
strategically aligns with whereyou want to go as a business.
So we had to sort of create thisframework around this one
little piece, which is peoplecan become better humans by
going out into the community andexperiencing the things that we
don't experience in ourday-to-day lives.
That's the core.
(14:39):
Like that's what we, thisbusiness, exists for.
But around that there is ifyou're going to have a business
initiative, if you're going tohave a department within your
company, it has to alignstrategically with everything
else you're trying to do and ithas to be as legitimate as any
other business initiative.
So that part has to be aslegitimate as any other business
initiative.
So that part, somehow we atleast understood that, chris, as
(15:02):
a very strategically mindedperson, luckily.
So we were able to bring thatangle into businesses as we did
this.
We would do these designworkshops with, say, 12 of their
team members, and they wouldfeel inspired enough, but also
like they had strategic languageto take forward.
So those two things together,the emotion that they wanted,
along with the strategy thatthey could pitch to senior
(15:22):
leaders, I think was what worked.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah, you figured out how to get the businesses to
see that it not only helps theirpeople, it helps their
businesses reputation, whichultimately helps their business
as a whole.
And that's a that's not adirect correlation.
Like I can sit down and go.
If you do this tactic, you savethis much in taxes.
(15:45):
You're sitting there and going.
Okay, if you do this tactic,it's going to have this PR move
that's going to happen and andthat's a hard, that's a harder
sell it's a ton of making sureyou're aligning with people and
what it sounds like is that youfound that niche of language.
You found that niche of purposethat aligned with some of these
(16:09):
bigger companies where theirmission and they see that value.
I guess, if that makes sense,and that's kind of cool.
So how was it for you sayingokay, I'm done doing cleaning,
I'm going to jump to this.
What was that feeling for you?
Was it methodical and you'relike okay, we're making enough
(16:29):
money?
Was it all right?
Hail Mary, I'm just going tojump because they need our time?
Like what was that jump for youto say I'm releasing this
safety net and going to jumpfull-time into this?
Speaker 4 (16:43):
That is well.
It's funny that you said whatwas the feeling, because it was
again don't take this tobusiness school but it was a
feeling.
It was not a number and itshould have been a number.
But yeah, I literally seemyself upstairs.
I called it my Friday morninghouse Best couple ever.
I still think of them andwonder how their little babies
are doing that lived in thehouse while I was cleaning it.
(17:04):
They also had just everythingwas meticulously organized.
I still try to make my ownhouse like theirs.
I'm upstairs, I'm making a bedon Friday morning and I'm
thinking we have these twoclients.
Our first two big clients wereForrester's Insurance in Toronto
and AstraZeneca, who hasremained a client over the years
, and we had them and it waspicking up and it was starting
(17:24):
to get stressful that I wasn'table to dedicate all my time.
Chris was also working in arestaurant at the time,
sometimes helping clean houses.
I was working in a restauranton the weekends.
It was like a lot and I thoughtwe kind of made friends with
the owner of the restaurant wewere working at and he he's a
good guy and he'd sold a lot ofbusinesses and I thought it
feels like everything.
Like my gut is saying now's thetime, like right, now is the
(17:45):
time, and I and I thought I hadthis rush of like oh, I can talk
to Ted and he can help me sellthis little baby cleaning
business and that might be thebridge.
We need to just get far enoughinto a couple more clients or
enough to keep going, andfinished that house called Chris
.
I'm like I think it's time.
(18:05):
He's like all right, let's meetwith Ted, met with Ted, ted
helped us sell it and thenactually we moved back to the US
.
At that point to reallyestablish the business in the US
.
We knew that it was smart toget going in Canada there's a
different type of receptivenesswith Canadian clients but we
knew that to really build andscale it needed to be a US-based
(18:27):
company.
So now we have a US-basedcompany that owns the Canadian
company.
But it was like, now that we'restarting to pick up, let's go,
let's go back.
So we went back and had thattiny I mean it was a tiny little
baby bridge that that cleaningbusiness sale got us.
But that that was it.
That was enough.
And then it felt desperateenough to we had to focus and
pick it up and make sure weunderstood exactly what we were
(18:48):
selling and who we were sellingto.
It was still scary.
It's still really scarySometimes you need that like.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Okay, like I.
I just have to cut the reins toreally like jump all in.
So do you feel like this is justum, this is a gut question here
on this side?
Do you feel like many of yourdecisions as I mean, you've gone
now to business school you'vebeen told how you're supposed to
think as a business person,which that's educational
(19:13):
business, that's not alwayspractical business, it's both
good and bad.
But do you feel like you havemade many of your decisions as a
business owner more by gut orby like factual side of things?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Yeah, I mean 100% by gut, and it is not what I
recommend.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
But why is it not that what you recommend?
Do you feel like you failed atthat decision?
I think.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
I can't believe it's working.
Like, like I and I mean I was26 when I founded Relishworth I
didn't need, I didn't needthings to be together.
I didn't have kids, I didn'thave a mortgage and nothing I
had a.
I had school loans to pay and Ilike just finished paying them
off.
I paid them real slow, um, so Ithink it's harder that you know
(20:07):
, the more established you get,the more comfortable you get,
and I know a lot of people dothis.
They're like I just want to geta few things under me and then
I'll start a business that thatwould never have worked for me.
I would have, you know, I wouldhave.
I would have told myself whywhat I have is fine and what I,
and I would even tell myselfthat that some somehow justified
to myself that that's actuallywhat I want, because, because
(20:30):
everything was such a mess Ididn't, I didn't have anything
and things were rough in my life, having got, having gotten
divorced, having dealing withall of that, it just felt like
there was nothing to lose.
And I think the nothing to losefeeling is a wonderful feeling
for an entrepreneur, like you'lljust do anything, you'll try
anything and you'll be naive,and that's okay because there's
nothing to lose.
And the more you getestablished, like now, I'm
(20:52):
terrified of if things go wrong,if things don't work Terrified.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I have to like talk about that in therapy.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Yeah, and it's like my whole identity now is it's
not healthy, but it is.
I'm completely attached to thebusiness.
So, yeah, so it was.
Every decision was made by gut,for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Is it still going this?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
direction?
Absolutely not.
Okay, some things are, but wehave now we have my gut.
Back then said hire people whoyou know will make better
decisions than you, and thankGod for that, because that is
that has been the best thingI've ever done, is ever done.
Absolutely.
Hands down is hire the rightpeople and they tell me they're
(21:31):
working hard now to move the waydecisions are made, away from
being founder based, becausethey know my dream is to scale.
I don't want to be a lifestylecompany.
They know that to do that theyhave to wrestle things out of my
hands and they're doing it andthey're good at it and so no,
not anymore.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I still bring gut decisions to them, but they help
me.
When did it switch?
Was it when you hired thosepeople that you switched from
gut to what's factual, or, uh, Idon't think it has switched.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
For me, actually, that's a good, that's a great
way to say it.
I think it we operatedifferently because of the team.
I'm still a gut person, Iprobably always will be, and
actually I think that is stillan asset.
Um, if I moved, I, I, um, Ithink a lot of business owners,
(22:25):
and maybe women especially, feelcompelled to be logical because
we sure know that emotional isnot going to be respected.
But I'm learning more and moreto lean into, to know that I am
a whole person, not just a head.
So to lean into that gut andthen trust my team to do the
(22:47):
work of making sure that itmakes sense, that it's going to
drive us forward, figure out thetiming, which feels very
selfish.
I feel like I need to do all thebackground work bring all the
numbers, bring the spreadsheets,bring the logic, bring the
business plan, bring the case.
And the more certain I am aboutsomething actually, the less
likely it is to be right, themore gut feeling I bring to it.
That feels like guys, there'ssomething here.
(23:08):
They're like OK, we'll figureit out.
I bring it certain like, bringa hard, concrete block to them.
They're like knock, knock,knock.
I don't know, it doesn't makesense.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
So you're setting the vision.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Yeah, that is the right way to say it Exactly, and
that's what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah, I also wonder and this is me.
I often give my intuition adiscredit because I can't put
the framework around it, andI've learned this from other
people in my life.
But the intuition there isactually a framework that
happens Like there's little,like you watch someone and
you're talking to them and youhave this intuition.
They're not really getting itand or there's some.
(23:47):
What reality is?
Your brain is picking up onsmall facial expressions or
small little things that arehappening that you're not
cognitively going.
Oh, it was this distinct thingthat happened.
Your subconscious picked up onthese small like.
So you are methodically workingthrough something.
You are, your gut is seeingsomething, even if you can't
(24:08):
verbalize it and put it into aheadspace.
There is something in your soul,there is something in the
subconscious that is picking upon the cues that say, okay, and
if it's nothing more than my ownhead space of like, okay, I can
no longer juggle thesedifferent things or like you
picking up on all right, thisneeds to be the vision, and I
(24:30):
don't know why, because there'sjust subtle things, and if I
told you what they were, becauseI could verbalize them, you'd
look at me and say that's silly,like, but I no, I just I gotta
like you're not talking fullybut you're giving me these
subtle hints that are telling methat, and to me that's the gut
and that's the intuition that Idon't know how to verbalize.
(24:52):
And I mean it's likeinterviewing too, like I
interview people or likesomething, and I have a gut that
says, oh, there was somethingoff on that, but I don't lean
into it because I can't judgethat like for someone, and so
then I ignore it and hands outall the time my ignoring of that
it was dumb, like I should havetotally picked up on, like the
(25:14):
subtleties, the hints.
And so I think it's reallyhealthy for a owner to be able
to pause and pay attention totheir gut and kind of walk
through that, that space ofthings.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
But do you feel like?
Oh sorry.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
I was going to say do you feel like having put that
infrastructure in place foryourself and now having the team
around you to kind of filterthrough ideas?
Has that put you more in tunewith your vision and you know
kind of the gut sense ofdirection that you're looking
for?
Or do you, are you in a processof like struggling to be away
(25:53):
from the details, cause I knowthat is also kind of part of you
know the owner's journey thatwe hear about a lot.
It's kind of you know, when yougive up seeing every piece of
the nitty gritty, um, you knowyou start to feel like you're
losing touch or feel, you know,like there are things that
you're missing or blindsided by.
So I was just curious what yourexperience has been with that.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean I feel the less I knowthe details and the less I'm
speaking into them, I actuallyfeel like I'm doing a bad job.
You know like I feel like, soit's like some sort of the
pendulum swings and sometimesI'm really good over here on the
vision.
(26:34):
My CFO who's amazing alwayssays we need you swimming out
ahead, not back at the dock,like helping people put their
floaties on.
But when I'm back at the dock,I feel like I'm doing things, I
feel like I'm helping and thatpeople are like thanks, angela,
you're such a good leader.
And they're like get out of myway.
That's actually what they'resaying.
(26:54):
They're like please, I know howto put my floaties on.
And they're like but I don'tknow where to go.
So please can you just swim.
And I'm like, yeah, but if I'mjust swimming, it's just fun,
I'm just having a great time,it's so selfish.
And they're like yes, just go.
But that is sometimes.
I know that some days I feelclear on that and actually this.
I'm feeling so grateful forthis conversation right now
because it's conversations likethis that remind me like really
(27:17):
clearly set me on that path.
I'm like right, okay, so todayI feel pretty confident that I'm
going to go swim ahead, but I'mgoing to get less confident
about the fact that I can'tnecessarily see.
I'm not watching anyone, youknow I'm not.
There's no one for me to swimtoward, so sometimes I go
backwards.
How do you make sure they'refollowing you?
They got their swimmies on.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
How do you make sure they're following you?
They got their swimmies on.
How do you make sure they'refollowing your vision instead of
going the current whatever?
I'm really bad at analogies.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
I love it, the rich-eyed thing that takes them
to the side.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
The other thing over there.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Something about salmon.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Salmon.
That's great.
Um, um, I, we do have a ton ofinternal systems and processes
and things like.
We have quite a structureinternally.
That gives me pretty goodindicators of how things are
going.
Um, we are maybe to uh, to avery, very hard-working culture.
(28:19):
Um, we have a meeting structurethat's every day the same for
all the teams.
We have management meetings, wehave kps, you know all the
things you're supposed to have.
But like not just to track ourperformance but to track whether
or not, culturally, we'removing in the right direction,
because in part of our, ourpurpose is that in or maybe not.
(28:41):
Purpose isn't quite the rightway to say it.
It's more like, I guess anindicator of whether or not
we're doing the right workexternally is if things are
going right internally and ourinternal cultural needs to be a
reflection of what we're tryingto build in companies.
So if we see internally thatthere's toxicity or that there's
people just not caring aboutthe quality of their work, which
(29:03):
is fine Actually, I think it'skind of fine in a lot of
companies, but not in this typeof company.
We're a mission-oriented work.
You have to.
Am I allowed to swear on thispodcast?
I'm fine with it, Okay, you haveto give a shit Like if you
don't.
And we have like like, give ashit.
Indicators.
So those things really helpedme.
And and again, talking aboutthem right now is reminding me
(29:24):
like yeah, Angela, you don'thave to be in the details,
because the details are tellingyou whether or not.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Things are on track.
That's fine.
My next question was like whydo you feel the need to go back
and help put them put on theswimmies If you have all of
those things to tell you thatthey don't know how to put on
the swimmies?
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Yeah, such a good question, and one of the most
annoying things about mybusiness coach is that she
always brings it back to me.
I'm like I have this problemwith this person.
I need to give them somefeedback.
This thing is happening.
And she's like okay, so let'stalk about why that's
frustrating you so much.
I'm like, no, give themfeedback.
And she's like, okay, and first.
And it's so frustrating thatevery time she's like she'll
help me identify.
Like, let's say, I'm feelingreally insecure about how I'm
(30:06):
contributing, so I default backto these old ways that that used
to be the right way and thatused to get me affirmation and
recognition, and those were theways.
Those are the things I feelstarted to feel so great about.
But as soon as you're great atit, because you're great at it,
you don't have to do it anymore.
That's the whole point.
You move to the next thing, andI think it's part of the danger
of a founder led company too,because I will get to well, I
(30:30):
mean, probably I guess I couldkeep trying to upscale myself,
but I will probably get to thepoint that I can't lead this
company anymore because it movesbeyond my skill level and that
is scary.
So going back to where I'm like,oh, this feels so safe and
secure, I'm doing great, is justa weird thing that I need for
me.
So that's why she always bringsme back to like what's
happening in you, because whatyou don't want to do is default
(30:50):
back over there.
Where, why would you givefeedback to someone who has a
manager?
Talk to their man?
You know, it's just somethingvery simple, like that.
It shouldn't.
It shouldn't like follow thesystem, follow the thing that's
already been put in place.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
So if you enjoy doing the work that you know and yet
you don't want to be a lifestylebusiness like, why is it that
you want to be something biggerthan yourself, If something
bigger than yourself kind offreaks you out?
Oh gosh, that's a greatquestion.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Sorry, I like being freaked out.
I need to feel like I'm jumpingoff a cliff, but also so you're
an adrenaline junkie, I guess.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
so Not really, that's not something.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
I think of you about.
No, it's more like one of mycore values is change.
Okay, so I need things I needto change.
I need things to change.
I need things to not feelsteady, static and boring.
Okay, yes, I'll bring that oneup in therapy this week.
I hear how that sounds.
I hear how that sounds.
(32:05):
But as we've built the business, the thing that.
I've learned and started to seeback with the cleaning business
is, I love the most, building aculture.
I love the most, creating abusiness that can be duplicated.
So we talk about it as atransformative workplace and
transformative volunteering iswhat we do with companies is
based on transformative learningtheory.
It's not.
(32:25):
It's not.
It's not meant to be synonymouswith like meaningful.
It's.
It's a.
It's a very specific set oflearning behaviors and where we,
we are a learning culture.
Everyone that works here isobsessed with learning, and I
want to put the structurestogether in a way that, as we
scale, other companies can dothe same thing, and it's one of
(32:46):
the things that motivates me isproving to people that things
can be done that they didn'tbelieve in.
Again, that comes fromsomewhere for sure, but I want
to prove to companies that it'spossible to have a culture where
people give a shit and to havea culture where people feel like
, yes, this is who.
(33:07):
Years or six months can say whoI became.
In my experience, there issomething I will never let go of
.
I'm so grateful.
That kind of thing.
Yeah, so that's the build, butthat the way the team.
(33:30):
Yeah, go ahead, sorry, go ahead.
Well, I was just going to say,the way the team pushes me
forward is is helping me takethe next challenge of building
that culture.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
So what has been the hardest challenge of building
that culture?
Speaker 4 (33:45):
So what has been the?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
hardest part of creating the culture you want
Just people.
What about them?
Is it the like getting them tochange?
Is it the like I hired thewrong person, I got to get rid
of them?
Is it finding the people?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Like what is it about that?
It's probably the same thingwe've been talking about.
That it can't depend on me.
I want to acknowledge what yousaid at the very beginning of
this conversation.
There is an experience that Iknow I can create for people
(34:23):
where they feel seen and heard.
That is something I've learned,for whatever reason in my life,
and I can't do it for 20 peopleand I can't do it for more than
20.
So it's got to be somethingwhere I understand that this is
not a gift that I own for myselfthat many, many, many people
are able to create space whereothers feel seen and heard.
(34:43):
So, yes, it's about hiring thosepeople to be leaders within the
company and to make sure that Ihave the space and myself to
focus on those people those fourmanagers I have right now that
are guiding everybody else.
They need to be my whole world.
But what I'm not good at isteaching them how to make people
feel seen and heard, so theyjust have to have that in them.
(35:04):
I don't know how to do that.
I don't know how to teach it.
I've never been good at it, butI can spend time with them and
just let them see how it feelsso that they can create that for
others.
And I'm giving myself adviceright now because, again, it
(35:24):
doesn't feel that clear on aday-to-day basis.
It just feels like it almostfeels like I'm looking for
problems to solve, because Ilove solving problems, instead
of just focusing on on thosefour people and then more people
as we grow and letting them doit their way, which isn't
necessarily how I would do it.
That's maybe the hardest partis seeing them make decisions or
interact with people in a waythat I'm like, wow, what, why
did you do it that way?
But it's fine.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
What's next for you?
I see a day when, maybe likethe day that I was making the
bed in the Friday morning house,I will think, okay, I'm not CEO
of this company anymore.
Like, let's, let's move forward, and and and and.
Then I don't know what it'll befrom from there, but I look
forward to a day that I can stepback and almost in a way that
(36:11):
no one really notices.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Do you have a plan, Like do you have people aligned
in your brain you don't have tosay that them out loud, Um but
like do you have this likewhat's the succession plan?
That's the word, sort of thing,Exit strategy.
Yeah, those technical accountum businessy phrases.
Do you have that prepared?
Or is this one of these gutthings where you're like this is
where I'm going.
(36:34):
I'm not really sure how I'mgoing to get there, but we're
just going to keep steppinguntil the path becomes clear.
Which, where are?
Speaker 4 (36:40):
you, it's more of the second one right now.
I'm always surprised how thingschange Right now.
I would love if my current fourmanagers took over the company
someday.
Like five years, three years,it doesn't matter how long it is
.
To me it could be ten, it couldbe more.
When I see small companies withthe same CEO for like 20 years,
(37:00):
I do tend to think, really, andI've been CEO for what?
Six, seven years?
Really, it's more than that,it's 2016.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Have you looked into franchising it's more than six
years.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
But okay, yeah, 2016, though Sorry Okay, yes, yeah,
you're right.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
I'm the one who can't .
Franchising is an interestingidea, um, we've looked at.
There's a lot of independentconsultants that do this work.
Now I'm I, there's a.
There are.
There's a lot there that Idon't know how to manage yet
licensing, um, but I love thatidea.
There's a?
Speaker 1 (37:35):
um.
I was at a presentation acouple of weeks back and the
wild birds guy.
Oh yeah, he is fantastic.
He presented, he built hisbusiness to tens of millions and
you know it was off the back ofjust simple.
You know organic growth Okay.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
I'm going to look into that.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
That was really, really good and, if you need to,
I can get you connected withhim.
He had a board of advisors.
He still uses them, because itsounds like you don't want to
grow to a bigger company, butyou still want to grow.
So this is a way of expandingand going sideways.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
I love that and we've also and this is applicable to
what you're saying we have twoother business lines now that
aren't consulting Cause likeyou're saying.
I think implying in what you'resaying is also that consulting
is really really hard to scale.
Um, and that became clear inthe last few years and even the
way that I'm like I it, it issuch a weight on me how hard my
(38:34):
consulting team works Like it isso stressful and I did that
work for a really long time so Ihave such empathy for them.
So we have two other lines ofbusiness now.
One is we do these big trainingsthat we call RW Experiences and
then we built a technologyplatform that is essentially
self-serve consulting, where weput everything that we do into
frameworks and how-to guides andtemplates that companies can
(38:57):
use and subscribe.
So you know obviously thatone's a nicely scalable one that
companies can use and subscribe.
So you know obviously thatone's a nicely scalable one Once
we fix the glitches.
It's only in its second year,but I look forward to that one
potentially even being somethingthat we can grow to the point
that it's very useful for othersin the space.
We don't do, for example,sustainability, but if we could
(39:19):
support sustainability expertsby having their templates and
how-to guides on the platformand then that can lead into more
consulting for them andpotentially do that for all the
topics within social impact.
That would be pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
How has it changed through the generations as
generational?
You've got millennials comingin you're probably one Then
you've got Generation Z or Zed,whatever it is, and then alphas
coming in.
How are you seeing thecorporate responsibility
changing?
Speaker 4 (39:52):
I wish there was more of a pattern that I believed in
there.
I it doesn't.
It doesn't what.
What I, what we actually seeout, see in our work anyway,
playing out in patterns and Ithink it's probably quite
different in other areas of workum is when people move into
positions of power, whatevergeneration they're from, their
(40:14):
behaviors change, Um, the thingsthey care about change.
When people come in fromuniversity or from a new
certification, whatevergeneration they're from, they
come in with idealism and hope,and when and when people uh find
purpose in their work and theyfeel like they're seen and heard
, they do a really good job attheir work.
(40:35):
I think the things thatmillennials or gen z or gen
whatever, say out loud isdifferent than what boomers felt
like they were allowed to sayout loud, but I think humans are
humans.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Okay, so do you feel like your passion is still there
for everything you've built, ordo you feel at all that it's
started to fade, as you've beenCEO for six?
Speaker 1 (40:55):
years.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Or all of the dynamics you're trying to figure
out, and you have to swimforward Like do you still?
Do you struggle with findingthat vision and that passion, or
do you feel like it's stillthere?
You just got to turn around andlook at it.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
The only thing that fades is my I wouldn't assume
this was such a cheesy phrasebut my belief in myself.
Like when I start to feel likeI stuck at it, then it's like
the passion fades.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Is there something that triggers your?
I suck at that most.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
I'm so attached, my identity is so attached to the
success of the business, likelast year was a really bad year.
It's really hard on so manylevels, really bad Like
financially people-wise.
Financially people-wise, I hadto let so many levels really bad
Like financially people-wise.
Financially people-wise, I hadto let so many people go Big
investments into big hires thatdidn't work, that I made big
promises about.
There was a moment toward thebeginning of the year when I sat
(41:50):
down with one of my verytrusted team members and, in
tears, said tell me, I can dothis.
And we sat there and gotourselves all riled up, believed
we could do it, just everythingwas going to work out.
And I also said I don't know ifI said it, but there were like
three things.
I'm like these are the threethings that I just need these
(42:11):
three things to go well, I don'tneed the whole world to work
out, just these three things.
Then at the end of the year, Iwas in some reflection session
and the person said what do youfeel proud of this year?
And I was like nothing, causethose three things all failed
massively nothing.
And luckily, they thenresponded it was someone who's
(42:31):
very neurodivergent and directand I needed it so much.
And they said and and is itokay?
And I was like oh, actuallyyeah.
And they were like and are youokay?
I'm like actually yeah.
And they were like and are youokay?
I'm like yeah, I'm okay.
So that set me.
Yeah, that that's it.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
It's like okay, let's keep going do you feel like
you're still in that headspaceor this year's been?
Speaker 4 (42:51):
amazing.
This year nothing's reallychanged.
So that's the thing.
I swear it was thatconversation, that person.
Nothing's really changed.
I mean, things are, things are.
We've had some exciting moments.
Financially, we had our firstcorporate event, which went
beautifully, like confusinglybeautifully.
I can't find anything tocriticize about it.
This morning I was like maybeit didn't go as well as I
thought two weeks ago, likemaybe something was wrong, maybe
(43:13):
people are talking badly aboutit and I'm like what are you
doing?
It was great.
Even the feedback was like.
The worst feedback was it couldhave been longer.
So there's amazing thingshappening for sure, but but
fundamentally, nothing haschanged.
It's it's been a mindset shiftand I'm and.
So this year, I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Do for your mindset shift.
Like I journal or I have toread books, Like it helps me
shift out.
What is there something you door is?
Speaker 4 (43:39):
it just the cheesiest thing ever.
My team member gave me thislast year as a secret Santa gift
.
Angela's words I write myselfletters.
It's amazing.
It's amazing.
My coach originally encouragedme to do it.
She's amazing too.
It's like it has been quitelife-changing.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
Huh, like as if you're yourself, but outside of
your body, like that, your brainis like a different person,
like the wise part of me, Okay,the one that actually like as if
I'm talking to someone elsekind of.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
But there's all these parts that just get freaked out
or like sometimes I feel likeI'm eight again and I'm like
acting out of that person.
That's what.
Speaker 5 (44:19):
I was going to say is there's that's interesting and
I wonder if that's a little bitof what you're doing, because
there is kind of a therapeutictechnique of like parenting your
inner child very mindfully andliterally, um you know, kind of
going back and speaking to them.
And a lot of times people dosay they realize in doing that
like, oh, I would never speak toa child the way that I speak to
(44:43):
myself.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
Exactly.
That's exactly it I meaninternal family systems, is a
form of therapy that I think isreally cool.
And I, yeah, even even when, umand again, I think this is
common for women, but I thinkit's common for all people.
But when you ask yourself, whatdo I need and the answer is I
don't know, there's a practiceto start there, because a little
(45:06):
kid coming up to you saying I'mhaving a bad day, I feel bad,
you'd be like, oh my gosh, whatdo you need?
Let's put you over here with abunch of blankets, I'll bring
you a cup of tea.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
And like don't I do that for my?
I want to.
I want to do that for myself.
Yeah, it's, it is I say this alot that for business owners, um
, you could put in all theprocesses, all the people, all
of that stuff, but if the veryfirst thing is, your mindset is
not and your own personalperspective is out of alignment,
you won't like all the rest ofthat stuff, you're going to step
on yourself.
You're just going to, and youwill go through seasons where
you're stepping on yourself, andmaybe you just feel like you're
(45:44):
stepping on yourself more thanyou actually are, but it's just
there, and how do you giveyourself grace in the midst of
it is a just an interestingspace of things and so Well,
okay.
So at the end of these, we liketo ask a few just fun, random
questions like and you can justtell us your thoughts on them?
Speaker 5 (46:08):
We were calling it the lightning round, but it ends
up being like one of the longersegments of things, because
everyone likes to suck a lotmore stuff.
So we're going to start callingit the slow round, or something
.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
We should All right.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
So you're at a business meeting.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
What drink are you drinking?
Scotch and networking.
What'd you say?
I said scotch at a businessmeeting.
Speaker 4 (46:29):
Sometimes when you have a small company that's your
own, you can do that.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
That's exactly true.
I love that.
I've had people say well, whattime of day is the meeting?
And I'm like I don't know Cause.
There's your answer and you'relike scotch, doesn't matter if
it's in the morning or in theevening I'm drinking my scotch.
Speaker 5 (46:43):
Scotch and scrambled eggs, please.
Thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
So my other half would always get an
old-fashioned at one breakfastjoint every time and I'm like
it's 8 in the morning, doesn'tmatter, I'm getting.
It's eight in the morning,doesn't matter, I'm getting old
fashioned.
I'm there.
I'm there for that, okay,favorite person to follow
podcast, instagram, facebook,tiktok.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
Oh, oh, oh, oh Okay, gabor Mate, who
G-A-B-O-R-M-A-T-E with a Anaccent.
Yeah, that's what they'recalled.
Right, yeah, they're called.
I like that.
It's like a really basic word heis.
His first book that I fell inlove with is called In the Realm
(47:34):
of Hungry Ghosts.
It's about addiction, but it's,like you guys, it's all related
to business.
Everything he's ever written isrelated to business.
And then the one that I read, Idon't know every couple months
is called when the Body Says no,also what we've been talking
about today.
But like all the stress youknow that we hold in, how we've
(47:54):
learned in society that ourbrains and our bodies are
disconnected, and that's crazy.
So it's a.
Really it's like a morepedestrian version of the the
body keeps the score.
Like a more um, palatableversion.
I love it, love it, love it.
It's amazing.
And then he followed up thatone with a book called the myth
of normal, which also is or youtold me to read that maybe we
(48:15):
talked about it.
I do talk about these threebooks too much.
His everything he's got onyoutube, everything he's
Instagram like he's he's like 80and he's just started this new
phase of his career, which isalso very inspiring.
He's absolutely amazing.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
That's kind of fun.
See, these are the things.
I love them.
I learned stuff.
Speaker 5 (48:32):
Yeah, I like when I don't know who these people are
and I'm like, all right, I'mlooking this up.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
Like spend the day.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
Um, how late is fashionably late 15 minutes.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
Okay, I tell people it's whenever I show up, that's
when it's fashionably late.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
See, I want to hang out with you.
This is, this is like such athat was a personality test
right there.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
I had somebody say on one of these like if well, it
depends on if now and I alwaysthink of this it depends on if
it's a Zoom call or like inperson.
Like because if it's a Zoomcall, it's zero minutes late.
You cannot Zero minutes.
And I'm like Never I was latetoday though, yeah, you were,
that's okay.
And I'm like oh shoot, I'veshould be on something and I run
(49:17):
late to my team's Zoom meetingsall the time.
I'm like I'm again fashionablylate is whenever I show up.
Doesn't matter, I love it.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
All right, your biggest pet peeve.
I have so many Brooke, oh gosh,I'm thinking of work things,
but it doesn't have to be.
Ah, this is such a goodquestion.
I guess pet peeves.
(49:51):
You know what?
It's probably some of theclassic things like um, okay,
let's, let's use this one.
I'm not, I'm not going to usethe phrase mansplaining but I am
going to say on any call thatI'm going to exactly on any call
or any meeting where, literallymultiple times, somebody
(50:16):
repeats back to someone whatthey just said and take credit
for it, like I, that's like the.
That's like the times I need toput myself on mute, ideally
turn my video off too, so I canjust be like, like the, the rage
that I feel it's it's actuallyit's one of the things that my
coach would be like okay, sowhat's going on in you?
And I'd be like, are youkidding me right now?
Speaker 3 (50:40):
that's awesome I love it.
You're like it's notmansplaining, it's just anyone
oversplaining to anyone takingcredit for it.
Speaker 4 (50:47):
It's usually like white men, but you know uh,
what's your personal motto?
Personal motto Nothing to prove.
Speaker 3 (51:01):
Nothing to prove.
Speaker 4 (51:02):
Nothing to prove why it's like really, from features
prominently in my letters tomyself, like where I'll be.
Like, dear Angela, today youhave nothing to prove, today you
can just go in, listen.
You know, man, my coach isprobably right, I probably
mansplain.
That's probably why it's suchan issue to me, because I do
(51:23):
need to remind myself to go intoa situation and just listen and
be present and not feel likeit's on me to have the right
answer, because I do.
I really.
I really get scared that peoplethink that.
Speaker 5 (51:35):
Is that something that's inherent to you?
Or is that a product of, justfrankly, being a woman in, you
know, a male-dominated space andbeing used to kind of having to
be overly, yeah, effective andoverly intelligent, and you know
all of these like you, you dokind of, you know, feel the need
(51:56):
to prove yourself, I wouldimagine, in some spaces, or did
at some point.
Speaker 4 (52:00):
Absolutely.
And, by the way, it's so niceto hear a man's voice say, in a
male dominated world, like thatwas really satisfying.
Um, I'm like thanks, thank you.
Yeah, yeah, I think you're.
You're right, it probably isalmost.
I'd love to speak to a womanthat doesn't deal with that at
all.
Yeah, to be like, who are you?
Tell me your secrets.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
Yeah, I don't know if I've ever thought about if I
deal with that or not.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
Okay, well, let's talk some more.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
I'm probably I probably really do, I can tell
you that just from havingconversations with you venting
that you absolutely have.
Speaker 5 (52:34):
I do.
I don't think I've ever saidthose statements to myself.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
Okay, what color do you think of when you think of a
business owner?
Speaker 4 (52:48):
I don't know why I thought of blue.
Why did I think of blue?
Speaker 3 (52:51):
I don't know, but it's just interesting.
I have some people who sayblack, some people who said red,
I think, and so it's just aninteresting.
Like you have a blue.
Now she's going to talk to hertherapist about that one, I
think, and so it's just aninteresting like you have a blue
.
Speaker 4 (53:02):
Now she's going to talk to me about that I am.
You guys should track this andthen, like, do some sort of
study on the colors people sayover time.
Speaker 3 (53:07):
That would be very interesting and like what the
personalities are associatedwith this yeah.
Yeah, totally, the gypsy peoplehave the blue.
Speaker 4 (53:17):
It's not even my favorite color or anything, so
that's very interesting huh,that's very cool.
Speaker 3 (53:21):
All right, and what is your superpower?
Speaker 4 (53:29):
I suppose it is a thing that feels true to me,
which is making people feel likethey're the only person in the
world when I'm talking with them, and it does.
It feels true.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
It is amazing about Angela Like I will totally tell
you all of that, like I'll watchher.
Like she lives in Baltimore.
I live in Indianapolis.
I see her like when I go visitmy brother, but I watch her like
Instagram things or Facebookthings when she like celebrates
(54:01):
somebody else, and it is likeyou are dead on about like just
really celebrating people andseeing who they are and just
thriving in that, which isprobably why you're also really
good at creating a culture thatpeople want to replicate,
because you take the time toreally sit down and like focus
and be very present to whomeveryou're in there with.
I would a hundred percent agreewith you on that is a very good
(54:24):
superpower for you and, yeah, Iwould almost say I'm jealous
for your superpower.
Speaker 4 (54:31):
Oh, we can trade.
I would really like some ofyours.
Speaker 5 (54:37):
So we typically wrap with two kind of more
existential questions.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
And the first one being define success for us.
Speaker 4 (54:52):
Personal or business?
Speaker 3 (54:54):
You decide that question.
Speaker 4 (54:56):
Oh man, they make it tough.
Success is maybe.
This is both maybe, but I thinkof it as two words keep hitting
my mind, so I'll share themboth.
One is satisfaction, which isdifferent than happiness, and
the other one is generosity, orthe feeling of being generous.
(55:18):
If you feel like, yeah, maybethat's the one, If you feel
satisfied and you feel like youcan be generous, okay, that's it
.
Speaker 5 (55:29):
I love.
That In turn define failure forus now.
Speaker 4 (55:36):
Ah, that's the scariest word Failure, failure,
that's the scariest word.
Failure Okay, if I've failed,that means it means Okay.
So yeah, for me, on the timesthat I have felt like a failure
personally maybe it was a slicetoo it is when I feel completely
(56:02):
disconnected from myself, likeI'm not even here, I've missed
out on my life that's veryinteresting, which is why, when
you came back to the person saidis it okay?
Speaker 3 (56:12):
that you didn't complete those things and you're
like, yeah, and I'm satisfied,like you can, yeah, I was here
for it, but yeah, I was stillhere.
I things, oh well, those didn'tget done.
So I was still successful and Ididn't fail because I felt
myself writing letters to myself, which is why that probably is
so good for you.
Speaker 4 (56:32):
You're so right, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (56:34):
That's interesting, that's kind of cool.
Speaker 4 (56:38):
What a great therapy session, you guys, thank you I
don't mean to be a therapist.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
A therapist would say oh my God, brooke, you talk too
much.
No, no.
Entrepreneurship and therapyare hand in hand.
You can't help it.
You can't.
I mean, it really comes back toyour head space somewhere in
there.
And that's the journey.
Like how did you get from?
I am working, you know, I justgraduated, I'm working in a
(57:06):
church to all of a sudden you'rerunning a huge company, a
decent-sized company with 20people having a huge amount of
impact, and a lot of people arelike it just happens overnight
and it doesn't.
It's such an emotional journey.
And then if you're like I'mgoing to step and do this and I
just got blown up on, a bunch ofpeople were pissed at me and
(57:27):
did it like that.
It's not, you aren't alone inthat.
And what does that look like?
And how does it look to createa business with a friend?
I didn't even ask you all ofthose questions Like and and
kind of not, not, it's just,it's a, it's a journey.
It's hard and there are daysit's good and there are days
it's bad.
And I think that's that's whatwe want people to walk away with
(57:49):
is that you can either resonatewith this person or you don't,
and but maybe you heardsomething that helps you with
something you're dealing withtoday.
So you know, that's the funjazz, thank you very, very much.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
I always love talking .
Yes, thank you Thanks.
Thank you all this has been fun.
Speaker 5 (58:07):
Angela, do you have anything that you like want to
plug?
Place that people can check youout If this conversation is
relevant to them, website,anything like that you want to
drop?
Speaker 4 (58:19):
on the end here.
Website is realizeworthcom.
We'd love for people to checkus out.
I'm super active on LinkedIn.
That's probably the place,business-wise, to find me.
Angela Parker.
Speaker 5 (58:28):
Awesome, thank you.
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