June 11, 2024 • 77 mins
Embarking on a quest for entrepreneurial wisdom and personal transformation, we traverse the highs and lows of business growth and self-discovery with Zach Jones. The narrative weaves a tapestry of creative ambition and leadership evolution, transitioning from corporate structure to the rhythm of hip-hop production and back again. Our candid discussion sheds light on mentorship's profound influence, the art of conflict resolution, and the power of embracing one's weaknesses to uncover new strengths.
Within this episode's harmonious blend of personal anecdotes and professional insights, Zach reveals his personal rollercoaster ride—from mastering payroll management with no prior knowledge to flourishes of transparency and direct engagement that shaped his journey in the financial sector. Zach's eclectic and creative voyage underscores the authenticity that fuels his musical endeavors, as we examine the role of experiential learning and an instinctual knack for sales in crafting his unique hip-hop identity among the many other hats he wears with pride.
Join us as we examine the psychological nuances of color in branding, the balancing act of personal and professional growth, and a little sneak peak at Zach's music chops. Join us in celebrating the enduring spirit of tenacity and the rich rewards found in the odyssey of ownership at any level.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Zach (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the Owner's Odyssey, the podcast
where we delve deep into thetransformative stories of
courageous business owners whohave embarked on an
extraordinary adventure.
I'm Zach Jones and I'm BrookeGattia.
We're here to explore the reallife experiences of
entrepreneurs.
Brook (00:22):
Each episode, we'll embark on a quest to uncover the
trials, triumphs andtransformations of remarkable
individuals who dared to answerthe call of entrepreneurship.
Zach (00:34):
Like all adventurers, our guests have faced their fair
share of challenges, vanquishedformidable foes and braved the
unknown.
Brook (00:41):
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a
seasoned business owner orsimply an avid listener hungry
for captivating stories theOwner's Odyssey is here to help
you level up.
Zach (00:52):
So join us as we embark on this epic expedition.
This is the Owner's Odyssey.
Let's start our adventure.
Brook (01:03):
Yeah, it's crazy.
So today, yeah, so.
Zach (01:06):
I guess we're talking about me now.
Paul (01:07):
Yep, zach's in the barrel, zach yeah.
Brook (01:12):
So I purchased Edgewater 2018.
Zach (01:16):
End of 18, beginning of 19 .
Brook (01:19):
Beginning of 19,.
Yeah, somewhere around there,and Zach came with a deal was
kind of the package piece of ofthings.
He was the payroll man, um, sohe would.
He was running the payroll.
I think the prior owner hadhired you actually to be a sales
, but then it was.
It didn't work out and youlanded in the payroll side, um,
(01:39):
and it didn't take me long tofigure out that that was not
your sweet spot at all.
Zach (01:45):
Yes, you, we can.
I may play with the editing ofhow transparent I am about this
story.
I'll give you guys the mostthorough version and then decide
what.
I keep.
But um yeah.
So I came on with Derek uh, andit had been a very transparent
conversation with him of I amexcellent with people.
(02:06):
I'm excellent with problemsolving.
I learn on the go.
I don't know anything about thefinancial space right now, and
it's something that.
I'm interested in, but you know,I kind of need a program.
Derek Smith ever the salesmanwas like yeah, buddy, come on.
Like, well, I'll, you know,we've got the whole program.
I'll kind of let you shadowwhatever needs to be shadowed.
(02:30):
You pick up what you need topick up.
It's really simple.
I've got a whole sales processfor you, so on and so forth.
Came on, maybe a month goes byand for unforeseen circumstances
, the payroll manager has to belet go at a moment's notice and
Derek just throws me into thatrole, like literally in the
(02:52):
moment, not really you know, notmuch of an ask, but just can
you do this?
Also, you know, throw someadditional stuff your way for
figuring this out and then kindof tried to walk me through that
process.
It was very much so, not yourwheelhouse, it was not my
(03:13):
wheelhouse, it was also justlearning on the go.
It was, and and that's wherederrick and you were very
different there actually weresome similarities that I like
see the more time I spend, butlike in the on the good, on the
good, sides on the good sides ofthings.
But, um, and Derek is an awesomeperson.
Yes, derek is absolutelyamazing and I am super grateful
for the opportunity and thefaith that he had in me in that
process and, you know, thelearning opportunity in general
(03:35):
it all was great.
But, um, the difference betweenyou two is that, uh, derek was
so packed and so busy constantlywith whatever.
The next thing was that hewanted you to figure it out like
to a fault.
He wanted you to go, you know,dig it out Like literally.
(03:55):
He'd rather you Google it andfigure out like just the most
basic version of it and kind offield the correction than to put
the foundation there.
So a lot of what I learned upto the point of you coming in
was just strictly throughosmosis.
It was through my ability tointeract with the customers and
you know, kind of do the fake ittill you make it game with them
(04:15):
and you know pick things upthrough what they were
requesting and kind of get theregular SOP of things and then
Google, uh.
Paul (04:23):
Google yes, exactly.
Zach (04:26):
Just like what you could have done with chat GPT.
Exactly so.
That, I think, was the biggestthing.
And when you came in, I hadthis increased pressure and
increased desire to put thingsin the right spot.
Start from, yeah, the rightspot, kind of put things in the
foundation and just like, overand over again, it kept kind of
being revealed the degree towhich, you know, everything was
a patchwork before that.
(04:47):
Um.
So I was, you know, kind ofbalancing that act of like.
I'm wanting to keep pushingforward with this and also be
transparent with you, becauseyou know, those kinds of things
are kind of a cascading failurewhere, if you let that go for
too long, all of a suddenthere's something where you've
made a real mistake.
So, um, you know, I had thatconversation with you and, uh,
kind of explained to you theinitial trajectory that I had
(05:09):
seen, and I think it ended upbeing a good thing, because if I
had not done that and I hadjust gone the sales side of
things, I don't think I'd havethe same insight to how the
business owners communicate andhow they think and, um, kind of
the pacing of thoseconversations and just my
overall financial understanding.
Brook (05:26):
Because it sounds like it's the.
It's the operational piece ofthings, of going all right.
I, you have a personality thatis engaging and you are a
visionary.
You see things and you getexcited about those pieces of it
.
But a vision requires executionand there are details to those
(05:47):
execution and I think youstarted in the details of the
execution.
Zach (05:51):
Well, and I can tell you exactly what my issue is there
too, and it's that I am all ofthose things that you're saying
and I very much so.
Look at the big picture and thesystem, and this is to a fault
and something that I'm workingon, but it's like even if all of
the pieces are there for mypiece and I should just be
chugging along, like if there'ssomething anywhere else in the
system where I see room forimprovement, or, like you know,
(06:14):
if, again, I think that, likefoundationally, we kind of like
started in the wrong spot orwhatever, like if it's not
aligned with the actual goal, Ireally really struggled to put
the hustle behind it in thewrong direction, if that makes
sense, or what I perceive in themoment as that wrong direction,
and it's not that the longer Igo, the better I get at
(06:35):
realizing that I can have thatthought, but, like, actionably,
I'm in this chair or that chairand so I need to continue, you
know, plugging along as though Idon't have that information at
light or, like you know, putthat in its right place in terms
of planning and you know thatkind of stuff and that's a hard
part.
Brook (06:52):
from almost the owner's space of things going, you
provide direction of like hey, Ineed to have X, y, z, three
things put in place and peopleare sure if I can do it.
But if they don't see thereason, the why behind it, the
jumping into doing it gets kindof lost.
Zach (07:08):
Right and the second.
There's something that's avariable that you didn't plan
for in that procedure that theyneed to adjust.
They're unable to because theydon't understand the point.
They just know the rotememorization of what you've.
Brook (07:17):
The hard part comes when, for most I think for most jobs
whatever you're doing, you canknow the point you can get.
People can paint that picture,but sometimes there's times
you're asked to do things andyou don't, when you're never
going to be told the why behindit.
Right, but that's also why I'mnot in the military, because I
can't handle not knowing the whybehind things.
Um, that's no military side ofthings, but um, yeah, so then we
, we, I kind of like I rememberdoing a personality test on like
(07:39):
all the staff and you were likeeveryone.
There was no judgment of thepersonality.
It was just like how mucheffort does it take for people
to shift from um problem solvingto detail oriented, to
personality side, like how bigof a everyone can do it, but how
much of a push is it to go fromone to another?
And you were like the mostextreme person I had of like
(08:00):
totally personality, liketotally vision, and for you to
jump to detail side of thingswas like 20 cases, like in most
people, were like three.
It was like it was a seriousjump for you on things.
I think that's when I startedto go Hmm, he's totally.
I mean, I already knew, buthe's, he's in the wrong seat
from that aspect of things.
Yeah, absolutely.
Zach (08:21):
And that's, and the only you know, in the payroll manager
thing, the only reason that I Ihad not asked Derek to kind of
refill that role was that wewere kind of talking about that
ultimately evolving into like apeople manager role of the kind
of you know overarching thing,and that's what I was interested
in.
So it was kind of that likeokay, let me crash course it in
this you know spot where mosteverything can be fixed, um, and
(08:43):
then you know figuring out fromthere.
Brook (08:45):
So when I pushed you into pushed I, I remember sitting
down with um Denny, who is kindof a coach side of things, and
said hey, so, um, yeah, I wantyou to come in and help me
develop up like this businessdevelopment side of things, and
I have.
Well, I think, before I evenhired him, I had started to ask
you to do some stuff.
Zach (09:01):
And.
Brook (09:02):
I would try to put out there like here are the things I
do, but I didn't.
I didn't know what it was thatI was doing that was successful,
which is also very hard whenyou're trying to train someone
else If you don't understandwhat those are.
And I remember we would sitdown and we'd talk and be like
that's not working.
All right, let's, let'sbrainstorm through why that's
not working.
And finally he asked me he'slike are you sure he's the right
(09:22):
one?
And I'm like I really feel likehe's really good, but please,
could you interview him, couldyou let me know?
And he interviewed you and then, like he's going through the
kind of course thing that he haswith you and he kept pinging
back to me of like Zach'sawesome, like he's got the like
drive and this push and thisdesire to learn this.
And we run through examples likewhat are those?
(09:44):
Yeah, like role-playing,role-playing.
And he's like, and he fullyjumps in, like full in
role-playing, to go through it.
I personally probably would nothave fully jumped in, I would
have been rolling my eyes thewhole time, but he's just like
he's all in about learning howto kind of pull into it.
So tell me about that journeyfor you of like, going from the
(10:06):
like I'm going to be the detailperson to having to be in front
of people and try to communicatethe vision for this
organization, which you've beena part of, but now on a bigger
scale.
What was there?
Parts of it that were scary,exciting?
Um, you're still trying tofigure out, uh yeah.
Zach (10:19):
So, um, I think first off that was a unique experience
because academically I hadalways kind of been leader of
the pack like excelled in thatspace and had good mentorship in
that space and goodrelationships in that space with
(10:41):
teachers and just people withexperience and that kind of
thing and then had also had thiskind of adjacent professional
experience since the age of 14,probably.
I mean, I've always beenselling something, like you said
in your episode or maybe Paul'slike we're always selling
something Ever since you were akid.
Brook (11:01):
You're selling them to give you your ice cream pops,
Exactly yeah.
Zach (11:03):
So I mean I worked at a deli and a Starbucks.
Your barista yes, I worked bothof those jobs for a while and
actually did general managertraining with Starbucks, which
was amazing because they have avery very clear program with
very clear kind of SOP and amentality behind all of it, and
(11:24):
you know, I'm now I.
Brook (11:27):
Why didn't you stay in there?
Zach (11:30):
So I kind of have always had a back and forth of just a
natural like hustle andentrepreneurship kind of side of
things and a passion forcreative stuff.
So I have gone back and forthbetween taking one or the other
more seriously, and that's a bigpart of it.
When I was in that process Iwould have been 18.
And I would have just graduatedhigh school early to work on a
(11:54):
project with a recording labeland do like an engineering
internship with them.
So that was, I had kind oftalked to school about that and
all of these other things and soI've got a crazy opportunity
record I have.
Brook (12:03):
Yeah, I actually, and I loaded up school about that and
all of these other things, andso I've got this crazy
opportunity.
Zach (12:05):
Uh, record I have.
Yeah, I actually I and I loadedup some music that I can I'll
play.
I'll play a couple of songs foryou guys.
Paul (12:11):
I've got four CDs you have working on the fifth.
Brook (12:13):
You've got four CDs out.
You wrote your own.
Zach (12:15):
No this is just a very nice.
What genre like here's this rap, right?
So I have.
I'll play you a coupledifferent things.
I started out singer-songwriter, um, and I genuinely wanted to
be a studio musician.
So I wrote a bunch of differentthings with very different
sounds to them, trying to be asdiverse as possible.
And then, late in high school,I kind of fell in love with
(12:37):
hip-hop and I had this idea offirst off, I couldn't stand
white rappers because they areplaying in black culture and
never give it proper respect or,like you know, proper
appreciation or understanding orany of those things.
It's always this kind of likeculture vulture situation I'm
sure people have their one ortwo names that they can name or
(12:58):
whatever.
And over time I learned thatthere are people that had that
presentation, that just thought,for whatever reason, that was
what people wanted to hearmusically, but then did the
right things with their moneyand their free time and all of
that.
But anyway, I just gotcompelled by this idea of, like
I want to make hip hop that hasthe Will Smith morals, without,
like, the Disneyfication, thelike removal of the edge and I
(13:21):
don't even necessarily agreethat the edge is removed from
some of those artists, like it'skind of always the consensus.
So I was like, let's see whatwe can do there.
Um, I should probably just playsome now, since we're talking
about it.
Okay, so let's see.
Okay, so this was the originaltype of stuff that I worked on.
(13:58):
And I don't know if I'm smartenough To figure you out, babe.
I don't know if I'm Cool enoughTo get you out of this place.
I don't know if I'm Real enoughTo see through Smoke in the
(14:25):
mirrors in your head.
I don't know if I'm anything.
I don't know if I'm ready.
I don't know if I'm telling youthe truth.
I don't know if I'm steadyenough For your love, babe.
(14:50):
For your love, for your love.
Yeah.
Brook (15:12):
So that's how I started.
Zach (15:13):
Was very kind of acoustic, john Mary kind of stuff and you
didn't stay in it, because Istill write stuff like that
every once in a while.
But I felt like I had a moreinteresting niche thing with the
hip hop stuff.
And you'll see how it kind ofevolves.
I went from there to kind of alike four piece rock band thing.
That was a little bit moreclassic rock kind of style.
So I'll play you one of those.
Okay, guitar solo Choke and bonein black and white Grow up in
(16:07):
color.
It all starts to blur.
Seems like they just turntonight.
They find some problems.
Then the questions become jerk.
We're to the side of a blindingtown.
We're up on the king's crown.
We're blood on the sissie dew.
(16:30):
Yeah, yeah, we stare inside andas we play, as our colors fade
away.
We've been made to do, we fadeaway.
Shades of grey.
I will never stay the same.
We lose our names.
(16:55):
Inside these games, but thesound will still remain so a
little, a little different.
Yeah, was that your band?
That was all me.
Yeah, wow, um, yeah, I'vealways kind of done it all
myself, okay, so, um, I think I,more so than anything, really
had the goal at one point, likevery, very early on, that I was
(17:17):
like I'm going to write, recordand release an album with no
help.
Brook (17:21):
Like why did you album art?
Zach (17:23):
all of that.
Um, growing up my dad alwayshad a recording studio and uh,
you know, it was kind of justindependent and hustling and I
always appreciated and I thinkthe musicians around him always
appreciated the fact like theywere like your dad can do
anything, like any person inhere, like if they were sick he
could do their job and sit in onthat other chair.
(17:43):
So like the value of that kindof jack of all trades thing in a
creative space is very, verystrong.
So I was always interested inthat.
Brook (17:53):
So is it for more from you?
Want to learn every aspect ofit, or more like?
I just can do this on my own, Idon't need any help.
Zach (17:59):
No, I think it was like an interest in learning every
aspect of it.
It was also an idea of likethere's always kind of this
collaborative element of workingwith other people and I think
early on, like very early on,when I tried to be in band kind
of settings, I struggled tocompromise on the things that I
really liked in that musicalspace.
So I uh, that was also a thingtoo, where I was like I want to
see what this sounds like,completely uncompromised.
Brook (18:23):
How does that morph over into a kind of not that that's
less professional, but more yourprofessional space of things,
of?
Zach (18:29):
going.
Oh yeah, for sure.
Brook (18:30):
That independent like I?
Like, do you look back and go?
I wish I had not done itwithout any help.
Like I think I could havelearned something from people
still known it, but like,because I chose to do everything
on my own, I missed out onsomething.
Like, is that any part of thatfor you?
Zach (18:47):
I don't think so, because maybe it would change if the
question was you know, you onlyhave this one album that you get
to make.
I do feel like it was avaluable learning lesson that
now I'm excited to work on otherprojects and incorporate other
people and, you know, add thatformula into the mix, now that I
kind of know what my thing is.
Paul (19:03):
And know where your skills are and where you're, I suppose
, where you want to be.
Zach (19:10):
Yeah, and the interest in it.
You're absolutely right.
I mean, there's definitelyparts of that process that were
grueling and unappealing andthen parts of it that you know I
can see, like you've got to getinto that space.
Brook (19:17):
Do you feel that flowing into your like professional
space too?
100%?
So how does that play out intoday's world for you?
Zach (19:24):
I think that there are a few things that come to mind
with that.
One is that we occupy a spacewhere the type of business that
we engage in is highly based onpersonality, like the service
itself is transactional, or thetax prep itself, or you know,
whatever the product is, butlike working with somebody that
(19:46):
makes it pleasant and that iscongruent with your beliefs or
your values, or whatever that isis really the important part.
And I feel like I would not havethe same insight into the
struggle and the kind of this ismy baby feeling that business
owners have and uh, as well asjust kind of like the the lost
(20:07):
feeling and the doing it allyourself feeling.
I mean that really it'ssomething that I, you know.
Like I said, I kind of go backand forth between um, at this
point I know I could make moneydoing it, um, and so now it's
just really like yeah is thatwhere I want to put my time?
And I feel like I, uh, there aretimes where I wonder if I
should kind of all in on certainthings in life, but I I do.
(20:29):
Uh I was talking with Paulearlier about like one thing I
want to ask business owners iswhat is your superpower, um, and
I think that I have two uh thatI've identified.
One is triangulation, uh, andthat is one is triangulation,
and that means that, uh, I havedone enough things and have
(20:51):
enough of a judgment freeviewpoint that, um, I'm able to
kind of find middle ground andfairness, I think, a lot better
than most, and that's kind of astrong suit that I have.
So, like conflict resolutionand client support when
something's on fire, and all ofthose kinds of things where you
have to step outside of yourselfand see the bigger picture and
(21:13):
find that actual middle space.
Brook (21:14):
So maybe you should have been a lawyer who's a mediator.
Zach (21:16):
Oh, I definitely could do that.
Brook (21:18):
You totally rocked that.
The divorce mediation.
The other word is strangulation.
Zach (21:23):
Strangulation, whether I'd be good at it and whether I'd
want to, or vastly differentthings.
But yeah, so I thinktriangulation and just in a lot
of things like that.
Like I was telling him, myparents were very different
people.
My mom was very A-type,proactive, organized positive.
Brook (21:42):
Your dad was a hippie.
Zach (21:43):
And my dad was a total hippie, Kind of a cynical hippie
.
A little bit of a juxtapositionthere, Um.
So yeah, I just think that I,you know, you kind of get a
different perspective whenthings are varied like that and
I've just kind of been able tojump into whatever pool.
And then that kind of plays intonumber two, which I think is
we'll call swimming upstreamwhich is I think uh, I
(22:06):
internalized this moment that ahigh school teacher at one point
was kind of talking to me andtelling me some things about his
life and figuring out what hewanted to do.
I was applying for colleges atthe time and trying to figure
out what was next, um, and hewas saying that it's kind of
natural to play into yourstrengths, um, but your
strengths are already strong.
So like, if you are the oneperson that can lean into your
(22:26):
strengths, but your strengthsare already strong, so like, if
you are the one person that canlean into your weaknesses and
find those spaces where you'reable to do that and strengthen
those muscles that you don'thave developed yet, then, like,
you will find differentopportunities and kind of just.
It was just kind of this likeseparate path you know that that
(22:46):
could be, and it wasn't like ado this kind of thing, but he
was just saying you know, you'relike so versatile that if you
jumped into the things thatyou're uncomfortable with, like
imagine how wide your comfortzone would would end up being.
And I feel like ever since I'vekind of internalized that of
like what's the next thing thatscares me, and how do I somewhat
safely jump into?
Brook (23:08):
that that connects to two of your past things of like you
sat in a payroll position thatwas not your strength, and so
you're like I'm going to leaninto my weakness and figure this
out and I am going to learn how.
I'm going to lean into theweakness of not knowing how to
do every part of a album and I'mgoing to figure it out and from
that going to gain theexperiences that kind of I want
(23:28):
from that.
And then they inform.
Zach (23:29):
I mean, it informs your experience for when you go back
and you do focus on the thingthat you like to do about it or
you know the part of it that youwant to build on.
So I think that's um, you know,I think when I was younger I
was like how am I going todecide what I want to like?
There's too many things to try,and the older I get, the more I
realize that it's not I cancontinue to try everything that
I want to.
(23:50):
It's about doing it in a waywhere I can commit to my past
commitments and continue tobuild and like continue to
create something, like createmomentum and kind of evolve and
not just pick up a new thing forsix months, you know, shift it
off board.
Paul (24:05):
There's another piece to that, I think, is when you get
the feeling I came across thisvery recently but started doing
something I went, oh, I realizedI don't like this.
And then you get someone elseto do it because you've gone
through that pain, thatemotional feeling of oh gosh, I
really don't want to do this,and then you just outsource it,
Having gone through it andrealize it's not something you
can do it.
Zach (24:25):
Yeah, you don't have to, yeah, and that, that that's that
is very true.
That's something that I alwayskind of have to um, or maybe
have in the past you know, kindof interacted with, is like am I
avoiding this because I can'tdo it or because I don't want to
do it?
And then, once you've completedit, you can say, for sure, like
I just don't like this.
Brook (24:48):
So how do you, how do you balance the all?
Right, I'm going to step in,leaned into my weakness, my less
strength, without totally likemessing it, the crap up, um,
where you were just like okay,Uh, like, how do you balance the
?
I'm going to step intosomething I'm not strong on, but
I'm not going to break it.
Zach (25:02):
Yeah, I think part of it is transparency, especially when
it comes to work, because Ithink that's something that I've
always maintained, particularlywith you is just like blunt
transparency of like.
I think this is going to work orI don't think this is going to
work so that we can work throughthat.
(25:23):
Going back to the wise.
Brook (25:24):
Yeah.
Zach (25:30):
And then the other piece of it, I think, is, you know,
just kind of doing I don't knowit's doing due diligence, but
it's also.
I think there is just somethingto learning how to learn, like
I'm very good at doing things Idon't know how to do, which is
an interesting thing to assert,yeah, but I think you might
agree with me that you wouldfeel the same kind of way and
(25:51):
that's like I.
I have a high level ofconfidence when I'm unsure, uh,
that through good judgment anddiligent kind of uh support of
you know any kind of notionsthat I have or actions that I
take, like 99% of the time,that's going to get you most of
the way there.
Brook (26:07):
To me, it's a tenaciousness of like okay, I'm
just going to sit here until Ifigure it out.
Zach (26:12):
Yeah.
Brook (26:13):
And yeah, it might take me 12 hours, that once I figure
this out, it's going to take me30 minutes.
But you kind of just know youhave to go through that process
of sorts, right?
Zach (26:27):
And just always asking yourself like, have I done
everything that I can do?
Like that's the other?
You know, piece of it is that Idon't think anybody.
And all of this is with thegrain of salt that you know.
You can't be a heart surgeonthis way.
Brook (26:39):
No, yeah, but even they had to at some point, and they
do to this day of like each, andthey do to this day of like
each person who comes at themwith a new heart.
You have to figure out what itis Now.
They probably don't rip youopen to figure it.
I mean, I don't know, I'm not aresearcher, right.
Zach (26:52):
But yeah, the level of gravity of the thing, how?
Brook (26:56):
you play, yeah right.
Zach (26:57):
Sort of warrants the level of experimentation that can
happen there.
So with us it's kind of alwayskeeping that pulse of like, hey,
is this working?
Are you feeling like we're atleast going in the right
direction with this?
And if we are, then that'spretty much good enough, because
we're taking care of what needsto be taken care of.
Brook (27:17):
I love that I do being taught how to figure things out,
and not that teaching atschools or anything are failing
on that, but just that conceptof figure it out.
I mean I think you recall mydad always would say, just
figure it out and like how muchI'm like why can people not just
figure it out?
And I don't even, maybe it'seven more of.
It's not that they can't figureit out, it's that it's the
(27:37):
tenaciousness, Like they don'twant to figure it out.
Zach (27:53):
They're to figure it out.
Yeah, and I mean, I think itreally is how you frame things
for yourself too, because, like,especially post internet and
now post AI, like learning isdifferent.
If you are still doing rotememorization and you know
working on memorizing the 50States, or you know learning how
to read a paper map, or youknow one of these things, then,
like I hope it's in your hobbytime, because I really want to
teach my kids how to read anactual paper map, and that's
what I'm saying that's totallyfine and like I understand all
of the things that like go intothat, but just like from a like,
(28:13):
if we're talking about buildingout an academic schedule for
children now, it's like likesearch engine optimization and
understanding how to find theinformation that you're looking
for and how to then vet thatinformation, figure out whether
it's actually accurate.
Brook (28:33):
We're going totally off on a tangent, so I will.
There's probably a part of methat's pushing back, I guess, a
little bit.
I remember someone asking meaccounting professor going
should we be teaching peoplemore how to use a software or
how to do like paper accountingstuff?
And I literally was like no,you teach them how to do the
paper accounting stuff becausethe softwares will constantly
change.
You need to understand what adebit and credit is and like how
it'll find you, so that whenthe software presents you
(28:56):
something and the software iswrong, you can tell the software
you're wrong.
Zach (29:00):
Same thing I do with taxes .
You're in that essence, though,like the paper, pen and pad
thing is not as important aswhat you're articulating, is
that the fundamental information, the fundamental accounting
information and concepts areimportant, which I'm essentially
agreeing with you on that side,but then saying the tool, my,
my, uh, I think what I'm sayingis more so like even don't teach
them, uh, one software, teachthem how to engage with a new
(29:24):
software that they don't knowand identify all of those tools
and all of those differentthings, so that you're never
learning that right, so that youare versatile with whatever is
evolving?
And I think so.
Yeah, we're saying the samething from different I think you
need both now.
Brook (29:37):
Unfortunately, like you can't just learn the paper way
of doing things, you also haveto have that fundamental plus.
How do I navigate?
Paul (29:43):
technology of sorts um going back to the childhood, I
think.
In you know, going back to your, your father said go figure it
out.
And then you spin it forward tothe snowplow parent.
That just pushes everything outthe way and does it for him,
does it for them and I've beenguilty of that and I'm going
back and I'm going shoes, I'vegot to do something different.
You know how do I re stop doingit for her?
(30:04):
And, uh, let do it, because ina month's time she's gone.
You're kind of late.
Yeah, I am.
That's going to be totally rude.
No, no, no, the reality is true.
Brook (30:16):
And yet they probably still will figure it out,
different than we may havewanted them to, but they'll
still be fine.
Half of it, I think, is dealingwith your emotions, but that's
a whole different subject.
So I want to come back to oneof these.
A question off of your thing.
So you said you like to stepinto your weaknesses.
What is your current step intoweakness that you feel like
(30:36):
you're trying to figure out?
Zach (30:38):
Cooking.
Brook (30:39):
Cooking.
Yes, if we're talking about thepersonal side of things.
A little bit of both.
Zach (30:44):
Okay, talking about the personal side of things, a
little bit of both, okay.
um, yeah, I uh, we have always,my wife and I have always just
accepted that, like, food is notour thing and we like to eat
out and we like to be waited onand you know whatever so that's
like the main expenditure, likeeverything else is exhausting
how much you spend on foodsometimes yeah, pretty fixed,
but that side of it we're justlike you know what that's the
best part of the day and um, youknow, and I I'll always finesse
(31:07):
with the math in my head oflike well if I spent that hour
doing some other type of thing,then really I can make that
money back and blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah blah and
finally I just was like I don'tknow how to cook and.
I need to know how to cook.
So I would say, for the lastthree months or so I've been
cooking about five times a weekand kind of doing meal preppy
(31:29):
stuff for breakfast and lunchand those kinds of things.
Um, I'll tell you about ainteresting dish that I made
because we hosted for fourth ofjuly so I wanted to do something
uh ambitious so I made a uh,what was it?
it was called a chicken baconalfredo lasagna roll, okay, and
(31:50):
what you do is you take, uh,take a bunch of bacon, like 16
pieces of bacon, and youactually lattice work them
together, um, and then you fillthat with the lasagna noodles
and then you get pulled chickenand do an alfredo sauce and a
spinach and tomatoes in thereand put all that together, and I
think there's maybe one otherlike layer to it, but anyway the
whole thing gets wrapped uptogether and then baked inside
the bacon lattice work, so itkind of comes out looking sort
(32:12):
of like a beef Wellington typeloaf sort of situation.
So good though.
Brook (32:17):
That was so.
You're gonna be making us ameal.
I'll bring the wine, I'm reallygood at buying wine.
Zach (32:24):
I have started getting.
I have started getting better.
We're in a weird phase of humansociety where I feel like I'm
embracing AI tools and all ofthese new apps and learning
things and they're helping youlearn how to cook and
occasionally it will make youfeel superhuman.
Like when you successfully hacksomething with either somebody's
(32:45):
technique or an app that has aregiment or whatever it's.
It's like pretty incredible,the things you can do.
Now, speaking of which, theother thing I've been trying to
work on is exercise, cause II've always just been in decent
shape, naturally, but never putany time into that.
Um, and I just can't stand it.
It bores me and I can't focuson it.
Paul (33:03):
Um, so you're trying to work out cooking and exercise
together.
Brook (33:06):
I know that's a good mix.
Paul (33:07):
Yeah, you know good combo.
Zach (33:09):
So what I've discovered on the workout side of things
there is an app on the MetaQuestVR headset called Supernatural.
That is like a P90X levelintensity workout, but it is all
inside VR and you have thesetargets that you're hitting in
various different activities andstuff, but they basically just
zap you off to some unbelievablelocale, like in nature in
(33:31):
Bolivia or in the middle ofArgentina or something, and it
everything is to music tracksand they've got very current
music and everything'schoreographed, so it's like just
like playing a video game, butat the end of like 35 minutes
I've had like orange theory,level heart rates and uh you
know you have to do it in anadded room because you might
fall off you need, you need asix by six space, right, uh, but
(33:53):
other than that, okay
Paul (33:54):
it's not bad I've seen.
I saw an advert, probably whenI was away, that uh, the guy's
punching the heck out of a flatscreen.
Zach (34:00):
You know you definitely need a good room for it.
Yeah, we, we move some stuff.
Brook (34:06):
not sharing your headphones because they're
sweaty and nasty is what you'retelling me also, you definitely
have to wipe things down.
Zach (34:11):
It's now a piece of gym equipment in the house.
If we have one for gaming or anoffice space or whatever, it'll
have to be a separate one.
Brook (34:19):
That is very cool, that you're kind of like I'm going to
make this fun for me and thisis how it is fun for me, because
, I will agree with you, I likeworking out is I can only do it
for a small period of time andI'm like totally yeah, or it is
probably a great terminology forit.
Paul (34:32):
so, um, here was me just buying a pickleball set for my
wife.
Zach (34:35):
Pickleball yeah, I, yeah, I've heard, I've heard.
That's a lot of fun.
Brook (34:38):
I'm not uh my parents are into that all of a sudden, so
yeah, there's some new courts,in science also.
Paul (34:43):
We saw them being being installed and assembled and
built.
Uh, when we're out there in thewinter, so what's your
professional stepping into?
Zach (34:51):
my professional stepping into right now is developing
some more official partnerships.
I think um, I think I'minterested in is that?
Brook (35:05):
is that hard for you?
I feel like that's somethingyou're good at.
Zach (35:08):
I think it's hard for me.
Brook (35:11):
Let me rephrase Um, what I'm stepping into at work is
keeping all engines goingsimultaneously which is very
hard which is very hard so areyou asking for help in this, or
are you?
Zach (35:26):
is this one of those?
I mean, I'm going to figure itout.
So I think Denny is a supportin that um to some extent, and I
think that I have been um withus putting the podcast together.
I've been kind of more active,actively consuming self-help
stuff and both books andpodcasts and those kinds of
things, and I feel like I'mstarting to, for the first time,
(35:47):
kind of apply some of thoseatomic habits style things.
And I think the issue that I'vehad for a long time is that I
beat myself up really, reallyhard when I know I am behind on
something and I've kind of got aschema in my head that that's
how I light the fire and pushmyself back into a productive
(36:08):
place.
And it's not, it's the opposite.
It really is that like in thosespaces, what helps me is like
connecting.
It helps me to connect to theteam, like it helps me to talk
to you, because I very much solike uh like you personally and
your or your like vision andyour kind of approach to all of
this is part of what keeps mehere very much, so like I
(36:31):
believe it and I believe thatyou believe it and those kinds
of things.
So for me, um, I have to getaway from like taking other
people's advice on whatmotivates them and cause,
especially in sales.
A lot of times I try to talk toother salespeople and that kind
of thing and it's like there'sa lot of money, motivation and
that kind of stuff and I,frankly, that's like not very
high up on my scale.
It's like I like doingsomething worthwhile, I like
(36:51):
doing something that I feel goodat and I like doing it for
people that I want to see.
Brook (36:55):
I find so much that money is never the mode.
Zach (37:00):
I mean, it's what people come back with.
Brook (37:02):
The one is is what you have to tap into for people and
so, but that is.
It is very interesting.
It's cool, I think, as you'resaying that of like everyone's
motivation piece and what youinternally get in your brain,
like how do you get over yourinternal stuff and you, sitting
back going it's other people,whereas I mean that's extrovert,
(37:23):
introvert, you know, piece ofthings I mean and I don't know
that it's everybody that feelsthat way, but it's like for me
personally, like I have enoughstuff going on and things that I
know I'm capable of.
Zach (37:33):
That, like if I wanted to work for me or if I had, you
know, if there was some othervision that I saw, that was like
there you know I can do.
Brook (37:47):
If I thought going to you know hitch to somebody's wagon,
then like it's going to besomething you enjoy and you're
excited about, right, and I feellike that's powerful Um
somewhere in there, so I likethat.
Paul (37:54):
It's the music.
Did you go down?
Go get a third.
Brook (37:57):
Oh, yes, yeah, here let's , uh, yeah, so he wants to hear
the the hip hop one.
Zach (38:01):
Absolutely, let's see here , so yeah, I I picked a couple
of my more tame I feel like youknow, in terms of the uh content
, I stand by all of it, but Idon't like to uh subject the
professional crowd to profanitywithout proper warning, so uh
here we go, have whatever youlike, have whatever you like.
(38:22):
Baby girl, it's alright cause Igot you.
Have whatever you like.
Have whatever you like, babygirl, it's alright cause I got
you.
You know I got you right.
Let go.
Na na na, na, na, na, na na naoh, na na na na, na-na-na-na,
(38:46):
na-na-na-na, oh-ah, na-na-na-na.
You've been running round in theback of my mind Trying to get
in my grind, trying to make mego crazy.
I've been spending time tryingto work on my finance, work on
my progress.
Now I'm like maybe I shouldjust say forget it and maybe we
could just kick it.
I like the way that you frame.
(39:18):
So let me get in the pictureTrying to get into distance and
maybe do something with him.
Outro Music Got me.
That's right.
Whatever you want, maybe youneed, I got you, got me, got me.
I have just had a full.
There was a whole when my otherhalf should go.
Can take it fast, can take itslow, as long as I can, let you
know that there ain't no gamesand it's taking a long time.
(39:40):
That's what you want and I'lllet you know.
Delect, I'll let you want.
I got you.
Got me, got me.
Brook (40:17):
I could feel the Will Smith vibe.
Zach (40:18):
Yeah, these are both ones that I wrote to my wife,
actually, so they're a littlemore Not an old girlfriend.
They're the softer of the album.
Brook (40:27):
They're not getting your inner anger out.
Zach (40:29):
Good nonetheless, this is one of the more popular songs.
Actually, I was feeling sort ofincomplete, looking puzzled,
trying to find my other piece.
This is one of the more popularsongs actually.
Thank you.
I can tell you that youworthless cause I pick you any
day over a hundred grand.
(40:50):
I think your bitch is perfect.
No, I pick you any day over ahundred grand.
I think your bitch is perfect.
No, I pick you any day over ahundred grand.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, pickyou any day over a hundred grand
.
I think your bitch is perfect.
No, I pick you any day over ahundred grand.
I will pick you first.
(41:37):
Until the day I'm in a hearse,ain't gotta go out here and
search.
I know I got what I deserve.
I know I give all that I can.
I know I wake up and I'mthankful that didn't happen
before you came into my life.
So thank you.
Finally found the one, so nomore looking no, no, oh yeah.
Do what I can to be a good man.
No, oh, no, no.
Keep you safe, so yeah.
Brook (42:07):
I forgot that word in there, didn't.
Zach (42:08):
I, oh yeah, I'm going to have to edit a few of those.
Brook (42:11):
That's pretty good.
Yeah, I like it.
Zach (42:13):
So if anybody is a hip-hop fan they can go look up
Spectrum by Otis.
That's the full album.
But those are my pop-friendly.
You know, share songs yeah.
Paul (42:23):
They're all thing.
He goes Otis.
Zach (42:25):
Otis, yes, okay.
Uh, it actually kind of yeah,oh, utis, it means, uh, no one
in Greek, uh, and it was whatOdysseus called himself to the
Cyclops, uh, and it's a wholeroundabout thing, but there's,
it's been used as a moniker, um,in literature several times, uh
, when people have wanted towrite something impactful but
(42:47):
for whatever reason, like itwouldn't work if it was tied to
them.
So this would be people likelong fellow did this or um.
Edgar Allen Poe.
Like people in that sort ofsituation.
But the idea behind it is likedon't worry about the good thing
being attributed to you, likejust worry about the good thing
happening Right.
So that's the kind ofoverarching brand of.
(43:10):
Otis so.
Brook (43:15):
So we have to ask you questions.
Paul (43:17):
Oh yeah.
Brook (43:18):
Your random questions.
Zach (43:20):
We need a name for this segment too.
I need to come up with a namefor the question segment.
Brook (43:24):
We're asking questions all the time.
Zach (43:26):
People are like geeked about this podcast idea, by the
way.
Brook (43:29):
Ours yeah.
Zach (43:30):
Like every time I tell people about it, they're like oh
my God, that's a really goodidea.
They're like you're going tolet me know when that comes out.
Right, like that's crazy.
Brook (43:37):
Good, I'm glad.
I probably need to share itwith more people, and so so this
is our question, our funquestion segment Um, you're at a
business meeting networking.
Um, uh, what are you drinking?
Always coffee Always, never acocktail.
Zach (43:55):
Uh, I mean, yeah, I guess I'll go in on something like
that, but not at night, in themorning.
Brook (44:00):
Not at night in the morning, okay, so no mimosas for
you.
Zach (44:02):
I have 99% of the time I'm going coffee even if it's an
evening kind of thing.
I just that's my uh.
I listen better when I'mnursing a caffeinated beverage
there is something about holdingsomething that helps you think
like there's something aboutlike just throughout the day.
Paul (44:20):
Sip is a uh it's kinesthetic is, you know,
something in your hand?
You've got a pen.
Brook (44:25):
Yeah, that's true.
All right Person to followpodcast, Instagram, Facebook,
Tik TOK.
Zach (44:30):
Oh man, um, who do I follow?
Um?
I'll kind of go a weird leftturn here and say J Cole, cause
J Cole is a hip hop artist andhe does not post a whole lot.
(44:50):
Oh, actually, no, I'm going tochange my answer and cut that
out completely, cause I do loveJ Cole but I've got somebody
who's a better like impact.
There is a hip hop artist namedRuss, and Russ created the Russ
model Um, and it's like amethodology for releasing music,
um, but also kind of tied tolike a lifestyle prescription of
his Um, and it is an excellentyes, that's Russ.
(45:13):
Uh, he is an excellent um doitself kind of person and will
get you in that entrepreneurialspace and just really like.
He talks a lot about having anaudacious sense of self I think
he calls it or something likethat where it's like you have to
believe in yourself.
If you're going to doincredible things, then you have
(45:33):
to believe in yourself to anunrealistic degree, almost Like
the people that really breakbarriers are doing so because
they're dreaming so far ahead ofeverybody else.
Um and that's his, you know.
So he couples that with kind ofjust these, you know different
practices to like keep youhumble and keep you hustling.
Uh, and he's somebody that justlike for frame of reference, he
(45:54):
did an experiment at one pointwhere he was like I'm going to
release a song every week for ayear and I think he went on to
do that for multiple years in arow actually, but completely
different model than peopleputting out albums and whatever
else.
He just was like we're in theage of content and each one of
these is my little salesperson,so why would I not want more
salespeople?
Yeah, so, yeah.
So he's very interesting forentrepreneurial stuff, not just
(46:19):
I agree.
Paul (46:19):
I'd read the book.
I'll listen to it.
It's really good.
Brook (46:22):
You already have?
Yeah, okay, it's on my list now.
Yeah, his book is definitelyinteresting.
Zach (46:27):
I've never heard him, so he's one of the highest grossing
streaming artists of all time.
Wow, yeah, sorry.
Brook (46:34):
Yeah, go ahead.
How late is fashionably late.
Zach (46:38):
I don't think I'm You're never late.
I'm never more than fiveminutes late, unless something
has like actually reallyHappened, happened.
Yeah, I think.
I, having the ADHD that I haveand the time blindness that I
have, like I know that if I letgo of my calendar or I let go of
the schedule during the day,that it's just gone.
Paul (46:59):
So I don't usually let go of my calendar or I let go of
the schedule during the day thatit's just gone, so I don't
usually let go of it.
How about personally?
Because that can be theprofessional piece.
You've got to be on time.
What about fashionably?
Zach (47:06):
late.
Oh yeah, that's a good question.
Personally probably half hour.
It depends on what we're doingIf you make me wait 30 minutes,
if we were going to dinner andI'm sitting down 30 minutes
before you like, I've got a sourface by the time you get there.
But if it's a party, I got asour face or I'm already eating,
you know, and you can just beokay with it.
But yeah, what about the party?
(47:26):
But yeah, I think a party, thatkind of thing, yeah, 30 minutes
hour late, that that's, that's,that's the sweet spot right
there.
So and I'm not a, I'm certainlynot the last guy at the party
either, so, uh, well, gettingthere or leaving leaving.
Like I, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm readyto take a nap pretty quickly.
So, unless I'm performing, likeI'll, I'll perform a show, or
that's kind of how I knew.
Naturally, like, like, I wouldlike to be on that side of the
(47:49):
stage if I'm going to go to oneof these events but biggest pet
peeve Showing up late for a meal.
Biggest pet peeve would bepeople speaking with authority.
That is unwarranted.
I think it's important andviable and interesting.
(48:15):
And what have you to stipulateand talk about things that
you're not completely sure about.
But you should do so with anunderstanding of kind of where
you sit in that and know, youknow just kind of the basic
reasoning of like, hey, I'msaying this thing, but I've not
sat down and looked it up orgotten the opinions of other
people or, you know, seen whatthe expert opinion on this is or
any of those things.
(48:36):
So I think that's a huge petbeeve of mine.
I was sitting around a tablewith a group of people recently
and someone brought up climatechange and it was just like the
merry-go-round, like everybodytook their turn stipulating as
to what ridiculous non-solutionsolution was going to be.
Brook (48:52):
This like quick fix and like, rather than us just
sitting with the fact that itsucks and we all need to figure
out what to do with it, or youknow what is happening or all of
the facts behind it, whenyou're like you're not a
scientist or yeah, or just beinglike yeah, I don't know, or you
know, yeah, anything that youcan actually like you know back
or or is just qualifiedappropriately, but it was.
Zach (49:09):
It's just like we all throw these things back and
forth.
I'm just like I'll probably beliving on mars by then.
It's just like none of us aregoing to check that like.
So I just kind of I think thoseuh things are a pet peeve of
mine and I feel like I seesocietally, like how we just let
that slide in a lot of spacesand I'm like this kind of feels
like why we're having some ofthe problems that we're having.
Brook (49:29):
So that's what social media people just put out there
like absolutes and like this isthe way it is right when it's
not, and there's, it's a blindperspective no vetting.
Zach (49:36):
And yeah, if there is, then you've just looked up
whatever things will support onsomebody else's thing.
Brook (49:41):
I'm like this is happening and you're like, yeah,
that's what is that called?
Zach (49:44):
uh, false, whatever truth than I am yeah, something yeah
but yeah uh, personal motto justdo it elevator um, I would say
personal motto is hang in therejust a little bit longer you got
(50:08):
this, just breathe, that's fine.
I do think that that's.
That's something that, uh, Ithink has become a mantra of
sorts for me and something thatseems to become more and more
tried and true, even right nowwith sales.
I feel like this month I've hadkind of a, you know, a slowing
period that I was stressingheavily and trying to figure out
how to come out of that and, uh, have been doing the extra work
(50:33):
that I think needs to go inthere to.
You know, see that generate.
But in sales, sometimes youhave a conversation with
somebody and you're not.
You may have done all the rightthings, but it doesn't matter.
Until six months down the road,um, and I feel like this, like
literally just in the last week,I've had this like almost flood
of like, hey, I'm ready, orlike, hey, this thing is, you
know, let's have the nextconversation, or whatever it is.
(50:53):
So it's like now I'm swamped, soit's never going to come in
steady, where it makes it easy.
But but it is just that thingof like, you know, you have that
, like I was in the thick ofthat, like am I doing this right
?
Like what am I?
Which piece am I missing tokeep the chain moving here?
But you know, kind of had thatfaith of like just hang in there
and like don't quit, whateveryou do, like just keep pushing
(51:14):
towards, whatever the thing is,keep doing your 1%.
Right.
Paul (51:18):
Three foot from gold.
Zach (51:19):
Have you read the book?
No, I don't think so.
You said three foot from gold.
Three foot from gold.
Ah, that makes sense.
Paul (51:24):
So it was a miner, a guy that worked his whole life and
couldn't find gold on thisproperty.
He sold the mine and what haveyou?
The person that bought it wentand did some geological stuff
and find found out where he wasdigging was three foot from this
massive seam.
that would have made him verywealthy so believable it's uh
three foot from grow gold, justkeep going.
Yeah, you gotta know when tostop, but there's a you know,
(51:48):
typically it's you know justwhen you, when it gets tough, is
when you just should keep ongoing yeah, I think I I have a
bit of a perfectionist mindset,which is part of what plays into
that whole, like I can't beatmyself up about what's already
done.
Zach (52:00):
I have to like cut that off cause I do enough and push
into the next thing.
But yeah, there's definitely umthere's definitely something to
that.
Brook (52:12):
What color do you think of when, when you think of a
business owner?
Zach (52:15):
I think of red pretty instantly.
Brook (52:18):
Cause're on fire, why red I?
Zach (52:20):
do think there's an intensity piece to it.
Um, I just think of red as likebold and strong, uh, and kind of
cutting.
I think that's like that.
Uh, coming from thecommunications, marketing,
public relations kind ofbackground, you learn pretty
quickly that red is like thecolor that cuts through the most
(52:41):
.
Um, so there are other colors.
You know you, you learndifferent color theory working
in marketing and like we're inthe financial space obviously,
so a lot of times you bring blueand green in to kind of have
those soothing tones and purpleor you know something that's in
that kind of cool color area and, uh, a lot of compliance stuff
kind of sits more in the red,yellow, green kind of space,
those sorts of things.
But I think just that initiallesson of red cuts through, I
(53:06):
think that sits with me.
Brook (53:08):
Those are our questions and you can cut out ones we're
not going to talk about that one.
We don't have to do six, butI'm going to ask six and then
you can cut out which ones youdon't.
Awesome.
Paul (53:20):
So what are you learning at the moment?
What's your um business wise?
What are you reading?
Or, uh, trying to get rough upon.
Zach (53:27):
Um, I think right now I actually need some new content
on that front, because I didkind of go through a big uh, I
was reading a lot about ADHD,because I have recently, like
actually, diagnosed with it andso just learning about all of
that and kind of breaking thosepatterns and stuff A lot of that
is more the pseudoscientific,admittedly, like following.
(53:51):
There's like an ADHD couple onTikTok that they have like kind
of different presentations ofADHD, that they have like kind
of different presentations ofADHD.
So they're constantly likedoing things for each other to
kind of offset that and makethem both like the most healthy,
functioning person that theycan.
But they kind of show examplesfrom their life and then do
these kinds of informationalthings that teach you about an
ADHD term or you know kind ofhow to prevent yourself from
(54:13):
struggling with something liketime blindness or you know one
of these other um kind of things.
Um, so that I think I'm I'veprocessed a lot of that lately
and now I'm getting into um andI think I told you about this in
a text message at one pointlike just everything consistency
based.
I know that naturally I'm goingto have cycles and that I do
have a preexisting cycle of likesuper hot streak, like very
(54:38):
consistent with everything.
I burn myself out and I getdepressed.
Productivity goes down.
That turns into its owndownward cycle.
I have to separate from thejudgment of it.
I get pulled out of that cycle.
I figure out, like, how to getback to square one, and then I
keep running with it.
So, instead of trying tomagically wake up and be a new
person.
I'm now in the like, goingthrough the math in my head of
(55:00):
like, what's the next measurablestep of shortening that cycle
or reducing the impact of thatcycle?
Or you know what's?
What's the 1% look like and howdo I hold myself accountable to
that, while not, you know,beating myself to death if, if
I'm not measuring up in in oneway or another?
Paul (55:18):
Um and just you know, accepting that there's always
going to be room for improvementon that side.
Zach (55:26):
So, yeah, who's your greatest influence?
Who is my greatest influence?
Um, personally, I would sayprobably my stepfather.
Um, personally, I would sayprobably my stepfather.
I think my stepfather camealong when I was very young and
took on a very, very consistent,healthy mentor role.
(55:53):
Amazing job of occupying thiskind of weird tandem space of
like friend and father figure.
That, uh, didn't ever reallylike, you know, challenge my
biological father's place or,you know, like, create drama in
my life in any kind of way.
He always, like, was committedto never saying a sideways word
about my father and facilitatinganytime he wanted to see me and
(56:14):
those kinds of things.
So I think that mirrors yourtriangulation.
Yes, yes, absolutely, um.
But yeah, I think that'ssomebody on a personal level
that has pretty much always comethrough when I've seen him need
to come through.
Uh, and he also, like, I had apoint in college where I was
kind of doing the same stuff andtrying new things and figuring
things out, but I didn't havethe same like feeling that that
(56:36):
was okay, um, and I kept kind ofquitting on things and he was
the one that came to me and wasjust like you got to finish
something and he was like itdoesn't.
He's like you know you can doany of these things.
I know you can do any of thosethings, but the more you second
guess, the more you're going toget that ingrained of like
(56:57):
finding the reason not to finishthe thing, uh, finding the
reason you're too good for it,or finding the reason that you
know there's some hurdle in thedistant future, so you're not
even going to try, or whateverit is.
So, um, and this was in thecontext of uh school at the time
, um, and he was just like yougotta go and finish it because
you said you were going to andthat's just know.
I think that's something thatyou need to hold true to
(57:20):
yourself is that when you saysomething, you're going to do it
.
And he was right.
and uh, ever since then it hasbeen more of an intentional
journey of experiencing what Iwant to experience and trying to
build out the person that Iwant to be, rather than, uh,
running from who I don't want tobe, which is a tricky
(57:41):
distinction to make, at that atthat age in particular.
Paul (57:43):
So that's good Like it.
Brook (57:47):
I like interviewing Zach.
A lot of things yeah, so we'realways so goddamn busy yeah.
I know you've done music for awhile, but I've never listened
to it, so but yeah, you, youhave some pretty good insight of
sorts and your journey has, um,it maybe is not the journey of
a business owner, but you havethe perspective of it and, um,
(58:09):
you've had to own your ownpieces of things and it's it's a
really cool perspective to have.
Is is your journey in owningyour own life and and deciding
which way you want to go with itand growing as you're working
through things.
Zach (58:22):
And I would argue that I do.
You know that I am anentrepreneur of sorts who early
on had the conversation that wehave with business owners of
what's really important here andin the creative space.
A lot of that had nothing to dowith money or exposure.
So if at some point those goalschange, you know any of those
things like I do think you know,I would agree with you that,
(58:43):
like, my mindset is that of abusiness owner and in what we do
I don't think that I can do myjob as well, if I don't consider
my company you know, whateverthat level is.
Well, thanks for sharing, Zach.
Yes, thank you.
Brook (58:57):
And now the music that should be the final later.
(59:33):
Yes, thank you.
And now the music which we willfind later.
Thank you.
Hello and welcome to the Owner's Odyssey, the podcast
where we delve deep into thetransformative stories of
courageous business owners whohave embarked on an
extraordinary adventure.
I'm Zach Jones and I'm BrookeGattia.
We're here to explore the reallife experiences of
entrepreneurs.
Brook (00:22):
Each episode, we'll embark on a quest to uncover the
trials, triumphs andtransformations of remarkable
individuals who dared to answerthe call of entrepreneurship.
Zach (00:34):
Like all adventurers, our guests have faced their fair
share of challenges, vanquishedformidable foes and braved the
unknown.
Brook (00:41):
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a
seasoned business owner orsimply an avid listener hungry
for captivating stories theOwner's Odyssey is here to help
you level up.
Zach (00:52):
So join us as we embark on this epic expedition.
This is the Owner's Odyssey.
Let's start our adventure.
Brook (01:03):
Yeah, it's crazy.
So today, yeah, so.
Zach (01:06):
I guess we're talking about me now.
Paul (01:07):
Yep, zach's in the barrel, zach yeah.
Brook (01:12):
So I purchased Edgewater 2018.
Zach (01:16):
End of 18, beginning of 19 .
Brook (01:19):
Beginning of 19,.
Yeah, somewhere around there,and Zach came with a deal was
kind of the package piece of ofthings.
He was the payroll man, um, sohe would.
He was running the payroll.
I think the prior owner hadhired you actually to be a sales
, but then it was.
It didn't work out and youlanded in the payroll side, um,
(01:39):
and it didn't take me long tofigure out that that was not
your sweet spot at all.
Zach (01:45):
Yes, you, we can.
I may play with the editing ofhow transparent I am about this
story.
I'll give you guys the mostthorough version and then decide
what.
I keep.
But um yeah.
So I came on with Derek uh, andit had been a very transparent
conversation with him of I amexcellent with people.
(02:06):
I'm excellent with problemsolving.
I learn on the go.
I don't know anything about thefinancial space right now, and
it's something that.
I'm interested in, but you know,I kind of need a program.
Derek Smith ever the salesmanwas like yeah, buddy, come on.
Like, well, I'll, you know,we've got the whole program.
I'll kind of let you shadowwhatever needs to be shadowed.
(02:30):
You pick up what you need topick up.
It's really simple.
I've got a whole sales processfor you, so on and so forth.
Came on, maybe a month goes byand for unforeseen circumstances
, the payroll manager has to belet go at a moment's notice and
Derek just throws me into thatrole, like literally in the
(02:52):
moment, not really you know, notmuch of an ask, but just can
you do this?
Also, you know, throw someadditional stuff your way for
figuring this out and then kindof tried to walk me through that
process.
It was very much so, not yourwheelhouse, it was not my
(03:13):
wheelhouse, it was also justlearning on the go.
It was, and and that's wherederrick and you were very
different there actually weresome similarities that I like
see the more time I spend, butlike in the on the good, on the
good, sides on the good sides ofthings.
But, um, and Derek is an awesomeperson.
Yes, derek is absolutelyamazing and I am super grateful
for the opportunity and thefaith that he had in me in that
process and, you know, thelearning opportunity in general
(03:35):
it all was great.
But, um, the difference betweenyou two is that, uh, derek was
so packed and so busy constantlywith whatever.
The next thing was that hewanted you to figure it out like
to a fault.
He wanted you to go, you know,dig it out Like literally.
(03:55):
He'd rather you Google it andfigure out like just the most
basic version of it and kind offield the correction than to put
the foundation there.
So a lot of what I learned upto the point of you coming in
was just strictly throughosmosis.
It was through my ability tointeract with the customers and
you know, kind of do the fake ittill you make it game with them
(04:15):
and you know pick things upthrough what they were
requesting and kind of get theregular SOP of things and then
Google, uh.
Paul (04:23):
Google yes, exactly.
Zach (04:26):
Just like what you could have done with chat GPT.
Exactly so.
That, I think, was the biggestthing.
And when you came in, I hadthis increased pressure and
increased desire to put thingsin the right spot.
Start from, yeah, the rightspot, kind of put things in the
foundation and just like, overand over again, it kept kind of
being revealed the degree towhich, you know, everything was
a patchwork before that.
(04:47):
Um.
So I was, you know, kind ofbalancing that act of like.
I'm wanting to keep pushingforward with this and also be
transparent with you, becauseyou know, those kinds of things
are kind of a cascading failurewhere, if you let that go for
too long, all of a suddenthere's something where you've
made a real mistake.
So, um, you know, I had thatconversation with you and, uh,
kind of explained to you theinitial trajectory that I had
(05:09):
seen, and I think it ended upbeing a good thing, because if I
had not done that and I hadjust gone the sales side of
things, I don't think I'd havethe same insight to how the
business owners communicate andhow they think and, um, kind of
the pacing of thoseconversations and just my
overall financial understanding.
Brook (05:26):
Because it sounds like it's the.
It's the operational piece ofthings, of going all right.
I, you have a personality thatis engaging and you are a
visionary.
You see things and you getexcited about those pieces of it
.
But a vision requires executionand there are details to those
(05:47):
execution and I think youstarted in the details of the
execution.
Zach (05:51):
Well, and I can tell you exactly what my issue is there
too, and it's that I am all ofthose things that you're saying
and I very much so.
Look at the big picture and thesystem, and this is to a fault
and something that I'm workingon, but it's like even if all of
the pieces are there for mypiece and I should just be
chugging along, like if there'ssomething anywhere else in the
system where I see room forimprovement, or, like you know,
(06:14):
if, again, I think that, likefoundationally, we kind of like
started in the wrong spot orwhatever, like if it's not
aligned with the actual goal, Ireally really struggled to put
the hustle behind it in thewrong direction, if that makes
sense, or what I perceive in themoment as that wrong direction,
and it's not that the longer Igo, the better I get at
(06:35):
realizing that I can have thatthought, but, like, actionably,
I'm in this chair or that chairand so I need to continue, you
know, plugging along as though Idon't have that information at
light or, like you know, putthat in its right place in terms
of planning and you know thatkind of stuff and that's a hard
part.
Brook (06:52):
from almost the owner's space of things going, you
provide direction of like hey, Ineed to have X, y, z, three
things put in place and peopleare sure if I can do it.
But if they don't see thereason, the why behind it, the
jumping into doing it gets kindof lost.
Zach (07:08):
Right and the second.
There's something that's avariable that you didn't plan
for in that procedure that theyneed to adjust.
They're unable to because theydon't understand the point.
They just know the rotememorization of what you've.
Brook (07:17):
The hard part comes when, for most I think for most jobs
whatever you're doing, you canknow the point you can get.
People can paint that picture,but sometimes there's times
you're asked to do things andyou don't, when you're never
going to be told the why behindit.
Right, but that's also why I'mnot in the military, because I
can't handle not knowing the whybehind things.
Um, that's no military side ofthings, but um, yeah, so then we
, we, I kind of like I rememberdoing a personality test on like
(07:39):
all the staff and you were likeeveryone.
There was no judgment of thepersonality.
It was just like how mucheffort does it take for people
to shift from um problem solvingto detail oriented, to
personality side, like how bigof a everyone can do it, but how
much of a push is it to go fromone to another?
And you were like the mostextreme person I had of like
(08:00):
totally personality, liketotally vision, and for you to
jump to detail side of thingswas like 20 cases, like in most
people, were like three.
It was like it was a seriousjump for you on things.
I think that's when I startedto go Hmm, he's totally.
I mean, I already knew, buthe's, he's in the wrong seat
from that aspect of things.
Yeah, absolutely.
Zach (08:21):
And that's, and the only you know, in the payroll manager
thing, the only reason that I Ihad not asked Derek to kind of
refill that role was that wewere kind of talking about that
ultimately evolving into like apeople manager role of the kind
of you know overarching thing,and that's what I was interested
in.
So it was kind of that likeokay, let me crash course it in
this you know spot where mosteverything can be fixed, um, and
(08:43):
then you know figuring out fromthere.
Brook (08:45):
So when I pushed you into pushed I, I remember sitting
down with um Denny, who is kindof a coach side of things, and
said hey, so, um, yeah, I wantyou to come in and help me
develop up like this businessdevelopment side of things, and
I have.
Well, I think, before I evenhired him, I had started to ask
you to do some stuff.
Zach (09:01):
And.
Brook (09:02):
I would try to put out there like here are the things I
do, but I didn't.
I didn't know what it was thatI was doing that was successful,
which is also very hard whenyou're trying to train someone
else If you don't understandwhat those are.
And I remember we would sitdown and we'd talk and be like
that's not working.
All right, let's, let'sbrainstorm through why that's
not working.
And finally he asked me he'slike are you sure he's the right
(09:22):
one?
And I'm like I really feel likehe's really good, but please,
could you interview him, couldyou let me know?
And he interviewed you and then, like he's going through the
kind of course thing that he haswith you and he kept pinging
back to me of like Zach'sawesome, like he's got the like
drive and this push and thisdesire to learn this.
And we run through examples likewhat are those?
(09:44):
Yeah, like role-playing,role-playing.
And he's like, and he fullyjumps in, like full in
role-playing, to go through it.
I personally probably would nothave fully jumped in, I would
have been rolling my eyes thewhole time, but he's just like
he's all in about learning howto kind of pull into it.
So tell me about that journeyfor you of like, going from the
(10:06):
like I'm going to be the detailperson to having to be in front
of people and try to communicatethe vision for this
organization, which you've beena part of, but now on a bigger
scale.
What was there?
Parts of it that were scary,exciting?
Um, you're still trying tofigure out, uh yeah.
Zach (10:19):
So, um, I think first off that was a unique experience
because academically I hadalways kind of been leader of
the pack like excelled in thatspace and had good mentorship in
that space and goodrelationships in that space with
(10:41):
teachers and just people withexperience and that kind of
thing and then had also had thiskind of adjacent professional
experience since the age of 14,probably.
I mean, I've always beenselling something, like you said
in your episode or maybe Paul'slike we're always selling
something Ever since you were akid.
Brook (11:01):
You're selling them to give you your ice cream pops,
Exactly yeah.
Zach (11:03):
So I mean I worked at a deli and a Starbucks.
Your barista yes, I worked bothof those jobs for a while and
actually did general managertraining with Starbucks, which
was amazing because they have avery very clear program with
very clear kind of SOP and amentality behind all of it, and
(11:24):
you know, I'm now I.
Brook (11:27):
Why didn't you stay in there?
Zach (11:30):
So I kind of have always had a back and forth of just a
natural like hustle andentrepreneurship kind of side of
things and a passion forcreative stuff.
So I have gone back and forthbetween taking one or the other
more seriously, and that's a bigpart of it.
When I was in that process Iwould have been 18.
And I would have just graduatedhigh school early to work on a
(11:54):
project with a recording labeland do like an engineering
internship with them.
So that was, I had kind oftalked to school about that and
all of these other things and soI've got a crazy opportunity
record I have.
Brook (12:03):
Yeah, I actually, and I loaded up school about that and
all of these other things, andso I've got this crazy
opportunity.
Zach (12:05):
Uh, record I have.
Yeah, I actually I and I loadedup some music that I can I'll
play.
I'll play a couple of songs foryou guys.
Paul (12:11):
I've got four CDs you have working on the fifth.
Brook (12:13):
You've got four CDs out.
You wrote your own.
Zach (12:15):
No this is just a very nice.
What genre like here's this rap, right?
So I have.
I'll play you a coupledifferent things.
I started out singer-songwriter, um, and I genuinely wanted to
be a studio musician.
So I wrote a bunch of differentthings with very different
sounds to them, trying to be asdiverse as possible.
And then, late in high school,I kind of fell in love with
(12:37):
hip-hop and I had this idea offirst off, I couldn't stand
white rappers because they areplaying in black culture and
never give it proper respect or,like you know, proper
appreciation or understanding orany of those things.
It's always this kind of likeculture vulture situation I'm
sure people have their one ortwo names that they can name or
(12:58):
whatever.
And over time I learned thatthere are people that had that
presentation, that just thought,for whatever reason, that was
what people wanted to hearmusically, but then did the
right things with their moneyand their free time and all of
that.
But anyway, I just gotcompelled by this idea of, like
I want to make hip hop that hasthe Will Smith morals, without,
like, the Disneyfication, thelike removal of the edge and I
(13:21):
don't even necessarily agreethat the edge is removed from
some of those artists, like it'skind of always the consensus.
So I was like, let's see whatwe can do there.
Um, I should probably just playsome now, since we're talking
about it.
Okay, so let's see.
Okay, so this was the originaltype of stuff that I worked on.
(13:58):
And I don't know if I'm smartenough To figure you out, babe.
I don't know if I'm Cool enoughTo get you out of this place.
I don't know if I'm Real enoughTo see through Smoke in the
(14:25):
mirrors in your head.
I don't know if I'm anything.
I don't know if I'm ready.
I don't know if I'm telling youthe truth.
I don't know if I'm steadyenough For your love, babe.
(14:50):
For your love, for your love.
Yeah.
Brook (15:12):
So that's how I started.
Zach (15:13):
Was very kind of acoustic, john Mary kind of stuff and you
didn't stay in it, because Istill write stuff like that
every once in a while.
But I felt like I had a moreinteresting niche thing with the
hip hop stuff.
And you'll see how it kind ofevolves.
I went from there to kind of alike four piece rock band thing.
That was a little bit moreclassic rock kind of style.
So I'll play you one of those.
Okay, guitar solo Choke and bonein black and white Grow up in
(16:07):
color.
It all starts to blur.
Seems like they just turntonight.
They find some problems.
Then the questions become jerk.
We're to the side of a blindingtown.
We're up on the king's crown.
We're blood on the sissie dew.
(16:30):
Yeah, yeah, we stare inside andas we play, as our colors fade
away.
We've been made to do, we fadeaway.
Shades of grey.
I will never stay the same.
We lose our names.
(16:55):
Inside these games, but thesound will still remain so a
little, a little different.
Yeah, was that your band?
That was all me.
Yeah, wow, um, yeah, I'vealways kind of done it all
myself, okay, so, um, I think I,more so than anything, really
had the goal at one point, likevery, very early on, that I was
(17:17):
like I'm going to write, recordand release an album with no
help.
Brook (17:21):
Like why did you album art?
Zach (17:23):
all of that.
Um, growing up my dad alwayshad a recording studio and uh,
you know, it was kind of justindependent and hustling and I
always appreciated and I thinkthe musicians around him always
appreciated the fact like theywere like your dad can do
anything, like any person inhere, like if they were sick he
could do their job and sit in onthat other chair.
(17:43):
So like the value of that kindof jack of all trades thing in a
creative space is very, verystrong.
So I was always interested inthat.
Brook (17:53):
So is it for more from you?
Want to learn every aspect ofit, or more like?
I just can do this on my own, Idon't need any help.
Zach (17:59):
No, I think it was like an interest in learning every
aspect of it.
It was also an idea of likethere's always kind of this
collaborative element of workingwith other people and I think
early on, like very early on,when I tried to be in band kind
of settings, I struggled tocompromise on the things that I
really liked in that musicalspace.
So I uh, that was also a thingtoo, where I was like I want to
see what this sounds like,completely uncompromised.
Brook (18:23):
How does that morph over into a kind of not that that's
less professional, but more yourprofessional space of things,
of?
Zach (18:29):
going.
Oh yeah, for sure.
Brook (18:30):
That independent like I?
Like, do you look back and go?
I wish I had not done itwithout any help.
Like I think I could havelearned something from people
still known it, but like,because I chose to do everything
on my own, I missed out onsomething.
Like, is that any part of thatfor you?
Zach (18:47):
I don't think so, because maybe it would change if the
question was you know, you onlyhave this one album that you get
to make.
I do feel like it was avaluable learning lesson that
now I'm excited to work on otherprojects and incorporate other
people and, you know, add thatformula into the mix, now that I
kind of know what my thing is.
Paul (19:03):
And know where your skills are and where you're, I suppose
, where you want to be.
Zach (19:10):
Yeah, and the interest in it.
You're absolutely right.
I mean, there's definitelyparts of that process that were
grueling and unappealing andthen parts of it that you know I
can see, like you've got to getinto that space.
Brook (19:17):
Do you feel that flowing into your like professional
space too?
100%?
So how does that play out intoday's world for you?
Zach (19:24):
I think that there are a few things that come to mind
with that.
One is that we occupy a spacewhere the type of business that
we engage in is highly based onpersonality, like the service
itself is transactional, or thetax prep itself, or you know,
whatever the product is, butlike working with somebody that
(19:46):
makes it pleasant and that iscongruent with your beliefs or
your values, or whatever that isis really the important part.
And I feel like I would not havethe same insight into the
struggle and the kind of this ismy baby feeling that business
owners have and uh, as well asjust kind of like the the lost
(20:07):
feeling and the doing it allyourself feeling.
I mean that really it'ssomething that I, you know.
Like I said, I kind of go backand forth between um, at this
point I know I could make moneydoing it, um, and so now it's
just really like yeah is thatwhere I want to put my time?
And I feel like I, uh, there aretimes where I wonder if I
should kind of all in on certainthings in life, but I I do.
(20:29):
Uh I was talking with Paulearlier about like one thing I
want to ask business owners iswhat is your superpower, um, and
I think that I have two uh thatI've identified.
One is triangulation, uh, andthat is one is triangulation,
and that means that, uh, I havedone enough things and have
(20:51):
enough of a judgment freeviewpoint that, um, I'm able to
kind of find middle ground andfairness, I think, a lot better
than most, and that's kind of astrong suit that I have.
So, like conflict resolutionand client support when
something's on fire, and all ofthose kinds of things where you
have to step outside of yourselfand see the bigger picture and
(21:13):
find that actual middle space.
Brook (21:14):
So maybe you should have been a lawyer who's a mediator.
Zach (21:16):
Oh, I definitely could do that.
Brook (21:18):
You totally rocked that.
The divorce mediation.
The other word is strangulation.
Zach (21:23):
Strangulation, whether I'd be good at it and whether I'd
want to, or vastly differentthings.
But yeah, so I thinktriangulation and just in a lot
of things like that.
Like I was telling him, myparents were very different
people.
My mom was very A-type,proactive, organized positive.
Brook (21:42):
Your dad was a hippie.
Zach (21:43):
And my dad was a total hippie, Kind of a cynical hippie
.
A little bit of a juxtapositionthere, Um.
So yeah, I just think that I,you know, you kind of get a
different perspective whenthings are varied like that and
I've just kind of been able tojump into whatever pool.
And then that kind of plays intonumber two, which I think is
we'll call swimming upstreamwhich is I think uh, I
(22:06):
internalized this moment that ahigh school teacher at one point
was kind of talking to me andtelling me some things about his
life and figuring out what hewanted to do.
I was applying for colleges atthe time and trying to figure
out what was next, um, and hewas saying that it's kind of
natural to play into yourstrengths, um, but your
strengths are already strong.
So like, if you are the oneperson that can lean into your
(22:26):
strengths, but your strengthsare already strong, so like, if
you are the one person that canlean into your weaknesses and
find those spaces where you'reable to do that and strengthen
those muscles that you don'thave developed yet, then, like,
you will find differentopportunities and kind of just.
It was just kind of this likeseparate path you know that that
(22:46):
could be, and it wasn't like ado this kind of thing, but he
was just saying you know, you'relike so versatile that if you
jumped into the things thatyou're uncomfortable with, like
imagine how wide your comfortzone would would end up being.
And I feel like ever since I'vekind of internalized that of
like what's the next thing thatscares me, and how do I somewhat
safely jump into?
Brook (23:08):
that that connects to two of your past things of like you
sat in a payroll position thatwas not your strength, and so
you're like I'm going to leaninto my weakness and figure this
out and I am going to learn how.
I'm going to lean into theweakness of not knowing how to
do every part of a album and I'mgoing to figure it out and from
that going to gain theexperiences that kind of I want
(23:28):
from that.
And then they inform.
Zach (23:29):
I mean, it informs your experience for when you go back
and you do focus on the thingthat you like to do about it or
you know the part of it that youwant to build on.
So I think that's um, you know,I think when I was younger I
was like how am I going todecide what I want to like?
There's too many things to try,and the older I get, the more I
realize that it's not I cancontinue to try everything that
I want to.
(23:50):
It's about doing it in a waywhere I can commit to my past
commitments and continue tobuild and like continue to
create something, like createmomentum and kind of evolve and
not just pick up a new thing forsix months, you know, shift it
off board.
Paul (24:05):
There's another piece to that, I think, is when you get
the feeling I came across thisvery recently but started doing
something I went, oh, I realizedI don't like this.
And then you get someone elseto do it because you've gone
through that pain, thatemotional feeling of oh gosh, I
really don't want to do this,and then you just outsource it,
Having gone through it andrealize it's not something you
can do it.
Zach (24:25):
Yeah, you don't have to, yeah, and that, that that's that
is very true.
That's something that I alwayskind of have to um, or maybe
have in the past you know, kindof interacted with, is like am I
avoiding this because I can'tdo it or because I don't want to
do it?
And then, once you've completedit, you can say, for sure, like
I just don't like this.
Brook (24:48):
So how do you, how do you balance the all?
Right, I'm going to step in,leaned into my weakness, my less
strength, without totally likemessing it, the crap up, um,
where you were just like okay,Uh, like, how do you balance the
?
I'm going to step intosomething I'm not strong on, but
I'm not going to break it.
Zach (25:02):
Yeah, I think part of it is transparency, especially when
it comes to work, because Ithink that's something that I've
always maintained, particularlywith you is just like blunt
transparency of like.
I think this is going to work orI don't think this is going to
work so that we can work throughthat.
(25:23):
Going back to the wise.
Brook (25:24):
Yeah.
Zach (25:30):
And then the other piece of it, I think, is, you know,
just kind of doing I don't knowit's doing due diligence, but
it's also.
I think there is just somethingto learning how to learn, like
I'm very good at doing things Idon't know how to do, which is
an interesting thing to assert,yeah, but I think you might
agree with me that you wouldfeel the same kind of way and
(25:51):
that's like I.
I have a high level ofconfidence when I'm unsure, uh,
that through good judgment anddiligent kind of uh support of
you know any kind of notionsthat I have or actions that I
take, like 99% of the time,that's going to get you most of
the way there.
Brook (26:07):
To me, it's a tenaciousness of like okay, I'm
just going to sit here until Ifigure it out.
Zach (26:12):
Yeah.
Brook (26:13):
And yeah, it might take me 12 hours, that once I figure
this out, it's going to take me30 minutes.
But you kind of just know youhave to go through that process
of sorts, right?
Zach (26:27):
And just always asking yourself like, have I done
everything that I can do?
Like that's the other?
You know, piece of it is that Idon't think anybody.
And all of this is with thegrain of salt that you know.
You can't be a heart surgeonthis way.
Brook (26:39):
No, yeah, but even they had to at some point, and they
do to this day of like each, andthey do to this day of like
each person who comes at themwith a new heart.
You have to figure out what itis Now.
They probably don't rip youopen to figure it.
I mean, I don't know, I'm not aresearcher, right.
Zach (26:52):
But yeah, the level of gravity of the thing, how?
Brook (26:56):
you play, yeah right.
Zach (26:57):
Sort of warrants the level of experimentation that can
happen there.
So with us it's kind of alwayskeeping that pulse of like, hey,
is this working?
Are you feeling like we're atleast going in the right
direction with this?
And if we are, then that'spretty much good enough, because
we're taking care of what needsto be taken care of.
Brook (27:17):
I love that I do being taught how to figure things out,
and not that teaching atschools or anything are failing
on that, but just that conceptof figure it out.
I mean I think you recall mydad always would say, just
figure it out and like how muchI'm like why can people not just
figure it out?
And I don't even, maybe it'seven more of.
It's not that they can't figureit out, it's that it's the
(27:37):
tenaciousness, Like they don'twant to figure it out.
Zach (27:53):
They're to figure it out.
Yeah, and I mean, I think itreally is how you frame things
for yourself too, because, like,especially post internet and
now post AI, like learning isdifferent.
If you are still doing rotememorization and you know
working on memorizing the 50States, or you know learning how
to read a paper map, or youknow one of these things, then,
like I hope it's in your hobbytime, because I really want to
teach my kids how to read anactual paper map, and that's
what I'm saying that's totallyfine and like I understand all
of the things that like go intothat, but just like from a like,
(28:13):
if we're talking about buildingout an academic schedule for
children now, it's like likesearch engine optimization and
understanding how to find theinformation that you're looking
for and how to then vet thatinformation, figure out whether
it's actually accurate.
Brook (28:33):
We're going totally off on a tangent, so I will.
There's probably a part of methat's pushing back, I guess, a
little bit.
I remember someone asking meaccounting professor going
should we be teaching peoplemore how to use a software or
how to do like paper accountingstuff?
And I literally was like no,you teach them how to do the
paper accounting stuff becausethe softwares will constantly
change.
You need to understand what adebit and credit is and like how
it'll find you, so that whenthe software presents you
(28:56):
something and the software iswrong, you can tell the software
you're wrong.
Zach (29:00):
Same thing I do with taxes .
You're in that essence, though,like the paper, pen and pad
thing is not as important aswhat you're articulating, is
that the fundamental information, the fundamental accounting
information and concepts areimportant, which I'm essentially
agreeing with you on that side,but then saying the tool, my,
my, uh, I think what I'm sayingis more so like even don't teach
them, uh, one software, teachthem how to engage with a new
(29:24):
software that they don't knowand identify all of those tools
and all of those differentthings, so that you're never
learning that right, so that youare versatile with whatever is
evolving?
And I think so.
Yeah, we're saying the samething from different I think you
need both now.
Brook (29:37):
Unfortunately, like you can't just learn the paper way
of doing things, you also haveto have that fundamental plus.
How do I navigate?
Paul (29:43):
technology of sorts um going back to the childhood, I
think.
In you know, going back to your, your father said go figure it
out.
And then you spin it forward tothe snowplow parent.
That just pushes everything outthe way and does it for him,
does it for them and I've beenguilty of that and I'm going
back and I'm going shoes, I'vegot to do something different.
You know how do I re stop doingit for her?
(30:04):
And, uh, let do it, because ina month's time she's gone.
You're kind of late.
Yeah, I am.
That's going to be totally rude.
No, no, no, the reality is true.
Brook (30:16):
And yet they probably still will figure it out,
different than we may havewanted them to, but they'll
still be fine.
Half of it, I think, is dealingwith your emotions, but that's
a whole different subject.
So I want to come back to oneof these.
A question off of your thing.
So you said you like to stepinto your weaknesses.
What is your current step intoweakness that you feel like
(30:36):
you're trying to figure out?
Zach (30:38):
Cooking.
Brook (30:39):
Cooking.
Yes, if we're talking about thepersonal side of things.
A little bit of both.
Zach (30:44):
Okay, talking about the personal side of things, a
little bit of both, okay.
um, yeah, I uh, we have always,my wife and I have always just
accepted that, like, food is notour thing and we like to eat
out and we like to be waited onand you know whatever so that's
like the main expenditure, likeeverything else is exhausting
how much you spend on foodsometimes yeah, pretty fixed,
but that side of it we're justlike you know what that's the
best part of the day and um, youknow, and I I'll always finesse
(31:07):
with the math in my head oflike well if I spent that hour
doing some other type of thing,then really I can make that
money back and blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah blah and
finally I just was like I don'tknow how to cook and.
I need to know how to cook.
So I would say, for the lastthree months or so I've been
cooking about five times a weekand kind of doing meal preppy
(31:29):
stuff for breakfast and lunchand those kinds of things.
Um, I'll tell you about ainteresting dish that I made
because we hosted for fourth ofjuly so I wanted to do something
uh ambitious so I made a uh,what was it?
it was called a chicken baconalfredo lasagna roll, okay, and
(31:50):
what you do is you take, uh,take a bunch of bacon, like 16
pieces of bacon, and youactually lattice work them
together, um, and then you fillthat with the lasagna noodles
and then you get pulled chickenand do an alfredo sauce and a
spinach and tomatoes in thereand put all that together, and I
think there's maybe one otherlike layer to it, but anyway the
whole thing gets wrapped uptogether and then baked inside
the bacon lattice work, so itkind of comes out looking sort
(32:12):
of like a beef Wellington typeloaf sort of situation.
So good though.
Brook (32:17):
That was so.
You're gonna be making us ameal.
I'll bring the wine, I'm reallygood at buying wine.
Zach (32:24):
I have started getting.
I have started getting better.
We're in a weird phase of humansociety where I feel like I'm
embracing AI tools and all ofthese new apps and learning
things and they're helping youlearn how to cook and
occasionally it will make youfeel superhuman.
Like when you successfully hacksomething with either somebody's
(32:45):
technique or an app that has aregiment or whatever it's.
It's like pretty incredible,the things you can do.
Now, speaking of which, theother thing I've been trying to
work on is exercise, cause II've always just been in decent
shape, naturally, but never putany time into that.
Um, and I just can't stand it.
It bores me and I can't focuson it.
Paul (33:03):
Um, so you're trying to work out cooking and exercise
together.
Brook (33:06):
I know that's a good mix.
Paul (33:07):
Yeah, you know good combo.
Zach (33:09):
So what I've discovered on the workout side of things
there is an app on the MetaQuestVR headset called Supernatural.
That is like a P90X levelintensity workout, but it is all
inside VR and you have thesetargets that you're hitting in
various different activities andstuff, but they basically just
zap you off to some unbelievablelocale, like in nature in
(33:31):
Bolivia or in the middle ofArgentina or something, and it
everything is to music tracksand they've got very current
music and everything'schoreographed, so it's like just
like playing a video game, butat the end of like 35 minutes
I've had like orange theory,level heart rates and uh you
know you have to do it in anadded room because you might
fall off you need, you need asix by six space, right, uh, but
(33:53):
other than that, okay
Paul (33:54):
it's not bad I've seen.
I saw an advert, probably whenI was away, that uh, the guy's
punching the heck out of a flatscreen.
Zach (34:00):
You know you definitely need a good room for it.
Yeah, we, we move some stuff.
Brook (34:06):
not sharing your headphones because they're
sweaty and nasty is what you'retelling me also, you definitely
have to wipe things down.
Zach (34:11):
It's now a piece of gym equipment in the house.
If we have one for gaming or anoffice space or whatever, it'll
have to be a separate one.
Brook (34:19):
That is very cool, that you're kind of like I'm going to
make this fun for me and thisis how it is fun for me, because
, I will agree with you, I likeworking out is I can only do it
for a small period of time andI'm like totally yeah, or it is
probably a great terminology forit.
Paul (34:32):
so, um, here was me just buying a pickleball set for my
wife.
Zach (34:35):
Pickleball yeah, I, yeah, I've heard, I've heard.
That's a lot of fun.
Brook (34:38):
I'm not uh my parents are into that all of a sudden, so
yeah, there's some new courts,in science also.
Paul (34:43):
We saw them being being installed and assembled and
built.
Uh, when we're out there in thewinter, so what's your
professional stepping into?
Zach (34:51):
my professional stepping into right now is developing
some more official partnerships.
I think um, I think I'minterested in is that?
Brook (35:05):
is that hard for you?
I feel like that's somethingyou're good at.
Zach (35:08):
I think it's hard for me.
Brook (35:11):
Let me rephrase Um, what I'm stepping into at work is
keeping all engines goingsimultaneously which is very
hard which is very hard so areyou asking for help in this, or
are you?
Zach (35:26):
is this one of those?
I mean, I'm going to figure itout.
So I think Denny is a supportin that um to some extent, and I
think that I have been um withus putting the podcast together.
I've been kind of more active,actively consuming self-help
stuff and both books andpodcasts and those kinds of
things, and I feel like I'mstarting to, for the first time,
(35:47):
kind of apply some of thoseatomic habits style things.
And I think the issue that I'vehad for a long time is that I
beat myself up really, reallyhard when I know I am behind on
something and I've kind of got aschema in my head that that's
how I light the fire and pushmyself back into a productive
(36:08):
place.
And it's not, it's the opposite.
It really is that like in thosespaces, what helps me is like
connecting.
It helps me to connect to theteam, like it helps me to talk
to you, because I very much solike uh like you personally and
your or your like vision andyour kind of approach to all of
this is part of what keeps mehere very much, so like I
(36:31):
believe it and I believe thatyou believe it and those kinds
of things.
So for me, um, I have to getaway from like taking other
people's advice on whatmotivates them and cause,
especially in sales.
A lot of times I try to talk toother salespeople and that kind
of thing and it's like there'sa lot of money, motivation and
that kind of stuff and I,frankly, that's like not very
high up on my scale.
It's like I like doingsomething worthwhile, I like
(36:51):
doing something that I feel goodat and I like doing it for
people that I want to see.
Brook (36:55):
I find so much that money is never the mode.
Zach (37:00):
I mean, it's what people come back with.
Brook (37:02):
The one is is what you have to tap into for people and
so, but that is.
It is very interesting.
It's cool, I think, as you'resaying that of like everyone's
motivation piece and what youinternally get in your brain,
like how do you get over yourinternal stuff and you, sitting
back going it's other people,whereas I mean that's extrovert,
(37:23):
introvert, you know, piece ofthings I mean and I don't know
that it's everybody that feelsthat way, but it's like for me
personally, like I have enoughstuff going on and things that I
know I'm capable of.
Zach (37:33):
That, like if I wanted to work for me or if I had, you
know, if there was some othervision that I saw, that was like
there you know I can do.
Brook (37:47):
If I thought going to you know hitch to somebody's wagon,
then like it's going to besomething you enjoy and you're
excited about, right, and I feellike that's powerful Um
somewhere in there, so I likethat.
Paul (37:54):
It's the music.
Did you go down?
Go get a third.
Brook (37:57):
Oh, yes, yeah, here let's , uh, yeah, so he wants to hear
the the hip hop one.
Zach (38:01):
Absolutely, let's see here , so yeah, I I picked a couple
of my more tame I feel like youknow, in terms of the uh content
, I stand by all of it, but Idon't like to uh subject the
professional crowd to profanitywithout proper warning, so uh
here we go, have whatever youlike, have whatever you like.
(38:22):
Baby girl, it's alright cause Igot you.
Have whatever you like.
Have whatever you like, babygirl, it's alright cause I got
you.
You know I got you right.
Let go.
Na na na, na, na, na, na na naoh, na na na na, na-na-na-na,
(38:46):
na-na-na-na, oh-ah, na-na-na-na.
You've been running round in theback of my mind Trying to get
in my grind, trying to make mego crazy.
I've been spending time tryingto work on my finance, work on
my progress.
Now I'm like maybe I shouldjust say forget it and maybe we
could just kick it.
I like the way that you frame.
(39:18):
So let me get in the pictureTrying to get into distance and
maybe do something with him.
Outro Music Got me.
That's right.
Whatever you want, maybe youneed, I got you, got me, got me.
I have just had a full.
There was a whole when my otherhalf should go.
Can take it fast, can take itslow, as long as I can, let you
know that there ain't no gamesand it's taking a long time.
(39:40):
That's what you want and I'lllet you know.
Delect, I'll let you want.
I got you.
Got me, got me.
Brook (40:17):
I could feel the Will Smith vibe.
Zach (40:18):
Yeah, these are both ones that I wrote to my wife,
actually, so they're a littlemore Not an old girlfriend.
They're the softer of the album.
Brook (40:27):
They're not getting your inner anger out.
Zach (40:29):
Good nonetheless, this is one of the more popular songs.
Actually, I was feeling sort ofincomplete, looking puzzled,
trying to find my other piece.
This is one of the more popularsongs actually.
Thank you.
I can tell you that youworthless cause I pick you any
day over a hundred grand.
(40:50):
I think your bitch is perfect.
No, I pick you any day over ahundred grand.
I think your bitch is perfect.
No, I pick you any day over ahundred grand.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, pickyou any day over a hundred grand
.
I think your bitch is perfect.
No, I pick you any day over ahundred grand.
I will pick you first.
(41:37):
Until the day I'm in a hearse,ain't gotta go out here and
search.
I know I got what I deserve.
I know I give all that I can.
I know I wake up and I'mthankful that didn't happen
before you came into my life.
So thank you.
Finally found the one, so nomore looking no, no, oh yeah.
Do what I can to be a good man.
No, oh, no, no.
Keep you safe, so yeah.
Brook (42:07):
I forgot that word in there, didn't.
Zach (42:08):
I, oh yeah, I'm going to have to edit a few of those.
Brook (42:11):
That's pretty good.
Yeah, I like it.
Zach (42:13):
So if anybody is a hip-hop fan they can go look up
Spectrum by Otis.
That's the full album.
But those are my pop-friendly.
You know, share songs yeah.
Paul (42:23):
They're all thing.
He goes Otis.
Zach (42:25):
Otis, yes, okay.
Uh, it actually kind of yeah,oh, utis, it means, uh, no one
in Greek, uh, and it was whatOdysseus called himself to the
Cyclops, uh, and it's a wholeroundabout thing, but there's,
it's been used as a moniker, um,in literature several times, uh
, when people have wanted towrite something impactful but
(42:47):
for whatever reason, like itwouldn't work if it was tied to
them.
So this would be people likelong fellow did this or um.
Edgar Allen Poe.
Like people in that sort ofsituation.
But the idea behind it is likedon't worry about the good thing
being attributed to you, likejust worry about the good thing
happening Right.
So that's the kind ofoverarching brand of.
(43:10):
Otis so.
Brook (43:15):
So we have to ask you questions.
Paul (43:17):
Oh yeah.
Brook (43:18):
Your random questions.
Zach (43:20):
We need a name for this segment too.
I need to come up with a namefor the question segment.
Brook (43:24):
We're asking questions all the time.
Zach (43:26):
People are like geeked about this podcast idea, by the
way.
Brook (43:29):
Ours yeah.
Zach (43:30):
Like every time I tell people about it, they're like oh
my God, that's a really goodidea.
They're like you're going tolet me know when that comes out.
Right, like that's crazy.
Brook (43:37):
Good, I'm glad.
I probably need to share itwith more people, and so so this
is our question, our funquestion segment Um, you're at a
business meeting networking.
Um, uh, what are you drinking?
Always coffee Always, never acocktail.
Zach (43:55):
Uh, I mean, yeah, I guess I'll go in on something like
that, but not at night, in themorning.
Brook (44:00):
Not at night in the morning, okay, so no mimosas for
you.
Zach (44:02):
I have 99% of the time I'm going coffee even if it's an
evening kind of thing.
I just that's my uh.
I listen better when I'mnursing a caffeinated beverage
there is something about holdingsomething that helps you think
like there's something aboutlike just throughout the day.
Paul (44:20):
Sip is a uh it's kinesthetic is, you know,
something in your hand?
You've got a pen.
Brook (44:25):
Yeah, that's true.
All right Person to followpodcast, Instagram, Facebook,
Tik TOK.
Zach (44:30):
Oh man, um, who do I follow?
Um?
I'll kind of go a weird leftturn here and say J Cole, cause
J Cole is a hip hop artist andhe does not post a whole lot.
(44:50):
Oh, actually, no, I'm going tochange my answer and cut that
out completely, cause I do loveJ Cole but I've got somebody
who's a better like impact.
There is a hip hop artist namedRuss, and Russ created the Russ
model Um, and it's like amethodology for releasing music,
um, but also kind of tied tolike a lifestyle prescription of
his Um, and it is an excellentyes, that's Russ.
(45:13):
Uh, he is an excellent um doitself kind of person and will
get you in that entrepreneurialspace and just really like.
He talks a lot about having anaudacious sense of self I think
he calls it or something likethat where it's like you have to
believe in yourself.
If you're going to doincredible things, then you have
(45:33):
to believe in yourself to anunrealistic degree, almost Like
the people that really breakbarriers are doing so because
they're dreaming so far ahead ofeverybody else.
Um and that's his, you know.
So he couples that with kind ofjust these, you know different
practices to like keep youhumble and keep you hustling.
Uh, and he's somebody that justlike for frame of reference, he
(45:54):
did an experiment at one pointwhere he was like I'm going to
release a song every week for ayear and I think he went on to
do that for multiple years in arow actually, but completely
different model than peopleputting out albums and whatever
else.
He just was like we're in theage of content and each one of
these is my little salesperson,so why would I not want more
salespeople?
Yeah, so, yeah.
So he's very interesting forentrepreneurial stuff, not just
(46:19):
I agree.
Paul (46:19):
I'd read the book.
I'll listen to it.
It's really good.
Brook (46:22):
You already have?
Yeah, okay, it's on my list now.
Yeah, his book is definitelyinteresting.
Zach (46:27):
I've never heard him, so he's one of the highest grossing
streaming artists of all time.
Wow, yeah, sorry.
Brook (46:34):
Yeah, go ahead.
How late is fashionably late.
Zach (46:38):
I don't think I'm You're never late.
I'm never more than fiveminutes late, unless something
has like actually reallyHappened, happened.
Yeah, I think.
I, having the ADHD that I haveand the time blindness that I
have, like I know that if I letgo of my calendar or I let go of
the schedule during the day,that it's just gone.
Paul (46:59):
So I don't usually let go of my calendar or I let go of
the schedule during the day thatit's just gone, so I don't
usually let go of it.
How about personally?
Because that can be theprofessional piece.
You've got to be on time.
What about fashionably?
Zach (47:06):
late.
Oh yeah, that's a good question.
Personally probably half hour.
It depends on what we're doingIf you make me wait 30 minutes,
if we were going to dinner andI'm sitting down 30 minutes
before you like, I've got a sourface by the time you get there.
But if it's a party, I got asour face or I'm already eating,
you know, and you can just beokay with it.
But yeah, what about the party?
(47:26):
But yeah, I think a party, thatkind of thing, yeah, 30 minutes
hour late, that that's, that's,that's the sweet spot right
there.
So and I'm not a, I'm certainlynot the last guy at the party
either, so, uh, well, gettingthere or leaving leaving.
Like I, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm readyto take a nap pretty quickly.
So, unless I'm performing, likeI'll, I'll perform a show, or
that's kind of how I knew.
Naturally, like, like, I wouldlike to be on that side of the
(47:49):
stage if I'm going to go to oneof these events but biggest pet
peeve Showing up late for a meal.
Biggest pet peeve would bepeople speaking with authority.
That is unwarranted.
I think it's important andviable and interesting.
(48:15):
And what have you to stipulateand talk about things that
you're not completely sure about.
But you should do so with anunderstanding of kind of where
you sit in that and know, youknow just kind of the basic
reasoning of like, hey, I'msaying this thing, but I've not
sat down and looked it up orgotten the opinions of other
people or, you know, seen whatthe expert opinion on this is or
any of those things.
(48:36):
So I think that's a huge petbeeve of mine.
I was sitting around a tablewith a group of people recently
and someone brought up climatechange and it was just like the
merry-go-round, like everybodytook their turn stipulating as
to what ridiculous non-solutionsolution was going to be.
Brook (48:52):
This like quick fix and like, rather than us just
sitting with the fact that itsucks and we all need to figure
out what to do with it, or youknow what is happening or all of
the facts behind it, whenyou're like you're not a
scientist or yeah, or just beinglike yeah, I don't know, or you
know, yeah, anything that youcan actually like you know back
or or is just qualifiedappropriately, but it was.
Zach (49:09):
It's just like we all throw these things back and
forth.
I'm just like I'll probably beliving on mars by then.
It's just like none of us aregoing to check that like.
So I just kind of I think thoseuh things are a pet peeve of
mine and I feel like I seesocietally, like how we just let
that slide in a lot of spacesand I'm like this kind of feels
like why we're having some ofthe problems that we're having.
Brook (49:29):
So that's what social media people just put out there
like absolutes and like this isthe way it is right when it's
not, and there's, it's a blindperspective no vetting.
Zach (49:36):
And yeah, if there is, then you've just looked up
whatever things will support onsomebody else's thing.
Brook (49:41):
I'm like this is happening and you're like, yeah,
that's what is that called?
Zach (49:44):
uh, false, whatever truth than I am yeah, something yeah
but yeah uh, personal motto justdo it elevator um, I would say
personal motto is hang in therejust a little bit longer you got
(50:08):
this, just breathe, that's fine.
I do think that that's.
That's something that, uh, Ithink has become a mantra of
sorts for me and something thatseems to become more and more
tried and true, even right nowwith sales.
I feel like this month I've hadkind of a, you know, a slowing
period that I was stressingheavily and trying to figure out
how to come out of that and, uh, have been doing the extra work
(50:33):
that I think needs to go inthere to.
You know, see that generate.
But in sales, sometimes youhave a conversation with
somebody and you're not.
You may have done all the rightthings, but it doesn't matter.
Until six months down the road,um, and I feel like this, like
literally just in the last week,I've had this like almost flood
of like, hey, I'm ready, orlike, hey, this thing is, you
know, let's have the nextconversation, or whatever it is.
(50:53):
So it's like now I'm swamped, soit's never going to come in
steady, where it makes it easy.
But but it is just that thingof like, you know, you have that
, like I was in the thick ofthat, like am I doing this right
?
Like what am I?
Which piece am I missing tokeep the chain moving here?
But you know, kind of had thatfaith of like just hang in there
and like don't quit, whateveryou do, like just keep pushing
(51:14):
towards, whatever the thing is,keep doing your 1%.
Right.
Paul (51:18):
Three foot from gold.
Zach (51:19):
Have you read the book?
No, I don't think so.
You said three foot from gold.
Three foot from gold.
Ah, that makes sense.
Paul (51:24):
So it was a miner, a guy that worked his whole life and
couldn't find gold on thisproperty.
He sold the mine and what haveyou?
The person that bought it wentand did some geological stuff
and find found out where he wasdigging was three foot from this
massive seam.
that would have made him verywealthy so believable it's uh
three foot from grow gold, justkeep going.
Yeah, you gotta know when tostop, but there's a you know,
(51:48):
typically it's you know justwhen you, when it gets tough, is
when you just should keep ongoing yeah, I think I I have a
bit of a perfectionist mindset,which is part of what plays into
that whole, like I can't beatmyself up about what's already
done.
Zach (52:00):
I have to like cut that off cause I do enough and push
into the next thing.
But yeah, there's definitely umthere's definitely something to
that.
Brook (52:12):
What color do you think of when, when you think of a
business owner?
Zach (52:15):
I think of red pretty instantly.
Brook (52:18):
Cause're on fire, why red I?
Zach (52:20):
do think there's an intensity piece to it.
Um, I just think of red as likebold and strong, uh, and kind of
cutting.
I think that's like that.
Uh, coming from thecommunications, marketing,
public relations kind ofbackground, you learn pretty
quickly that red is like thecolor that cuts through the most
(52:41):
.
Um, so there are other colors.
You know you, you learndifferent color theory working
in marketing and like we're inthe financial space obviously,
so a lot of times you bring blueand green in to kind of have
those soothing tones and purpleor you know something that's in
that kind of cool color area and, uh, a lot of compliance stuff
kind of sits more in the red,yellow, green kind of space,
those sorts of things.
But I think just that initiallesson of red cuts through, I
(53:06):
think that sits with me.
Brook (53:08):
Those are our questions and you can cut out ones we're
not going to talk about that one.
We don't have to do six, butI'm going to ask six and then
you can cut out which ones youdon't.
Awesome.
Paul (53:20):
So what are you learning at the moment?
What's your um business wise?
What are you reading?
Or, uh, trying to get rough upon.
Zach (53:27):
Um, I think right now I actually need some new content
on that front, because I didkind of go through a big uh, I
was reading a lot about ADHD,because I have recently, like
actually, diagnosed with it andso just learning about all of
that and kind of breaking thosepatterns and stuff A lot of that
is more the pseudoscientific,admittedly, like following.
(53:51):
There's like an ADHD couple onTikTok that they have like kind
of different presentations ofADHD, that they have like kind
of different presentations ofADHD.
So they're constantly likedoing things for each other to
kind of offset that and makethem both like the most healthy,
functioning person that theycan.
But they kind of show examplesfrom their life and then do
these kinds of informationalthings that teach you about an
ADHD term or you know kind ofhow to prevent yourself from
(54:13):
struggling with something liketime blindness or you know one
of these other um kind of things.
Um, so that I think I'm I'veprocessed a lot of that lately
and now I'm getting into um andI think I told you about this in
a text message at one pointlike just everything consistency
based.
I know that naturally I'm goingto have cycles and that I do
have a preexisting cycle of likesuper hot streak, like very
(54:38):
consistent with everything.
I burn myself out and I getdepressed.
Productivity goes down.
That turns into its owndownward cycle.
I have to separate from thejudgment of it.
I get pulled out of that cycle.
I figure out, like, how to getback to square one, and then I
keep running with it.
So, instead of trying tomagically wake up and be a new
person.
I'm now in the like, goingthrough the math in my head of
(55:00):
like, what's the next measurablestep of shortening that cycle
or reducing the impact of thatcycle?
Or you know what's?
What's the 1% look like and howdo I hold myself accountable to
that, while not, you know,beating myself to death if, if
I'm not measuring up in in oneway or another?
Paul (55:18):
Um and just you know, accepting that there's always
going to be room for improvementon that side.
Zach (55:26):
So, yeah, who's your greatest influence?
Who is my greatest influence?
Um, personally, I would sayprobably my stepfather.
Um, personally, I would sayprobably my stepfather.
I think my stepfather camealong when I was very young and
took on a very, very consistent,healthy mentor role.
(55:53):
Amazing job of occupying thiskind of weird tandem space of
like friend and father figure.
That, uh, didn't ever reallylike, you know, challenge my
biological father's place or,you know, like, create drama in
my life in any kind of way.
He always, like, was committedto never saying a sideways word
about my father and facilitatinganytime he wanted to see me and
(56:14):
those kinds of things.
So I think that mirrors yourtriangulation.
Yes, yes, absolutely, um.
But yeah, I think that'ssomebody on a personal level
that has pretty much always comethrough when I've seen him need
to come through.
Uh, and he also, like, I had apoint in college where I was
kind of doing the same stuff andtrying new things and figuring
things out, but I didn't havethe same like feeling that that
(56:36):
was okay, um, and I kept kind ofquitting on things and he was
the one that came to me and wasjust like you got to finish
something and he was like itdoesn't.
He's like you know you can doany of these things.
I know you can do any of thosethings, but the more you second
guess, the more you're going toget that ingrained of like
(56:57):
finding the reason not to finishthe thing, uh, finding the
reason you're too good for it,or finding the reason that you
know there's some hurdle in thedistant future, so you're not
even going to try, or whateverit is.
So, um, and this was in thecontext of uh school at the time
, um, and he was just like yougotta go and finish it because
you said you were going to andthat's just know.
I think that's something thatyou need to hold true to
(57:20):
yourself is that when you saysomething, you're going to do it
.
And he was right.
and uh, ever since then it hasbeen more of an intentional
journey of experiencing what Iwant to experience and trying to
build out the person that Iwant to be, rather than, uh,
running from who I don't want tobe, which is a tricky
(57:41):
distinction to make, at that atthat age in particular.
Paul (57:43):
So that's good Like it.
Brook (57:47):
I like interviewing Zach.
A lot of things yeah, so we'realways so goddamn busy yeah.
I know you've done music for awhile, but I've never listened
to it, so but yeah, you, youhave some pretty good insight of
sorts and your journey has, um,it maybe is not the journey of
a business owner, but you havethe perspective of it and, um,
(58:09):
you've had to own your ownpieces of things and it's it's a
really cool perspective to have.
Is is your journey in owningyour own life and and deciding
which way you want to go with itand growing as you're working
through things.
Zach (58:22):
And I would argue that I do.
You know that I am anentrepreneur of sorts who early
on had the conversation that wehave with business owners of
what's really important here andin the creative space.
A lot of that had nothing to dowith money or exposure.
So if at some point those goalschange, you know any of those
things like I do think you know,I would agree with you that,
(58:43):
like, my mindset is that of abusiness owner and in what we do
I don't think that I can do myjob as well, if I don't consider
my company you know, whateverthat level is.
Well, thanks for sharing, Zach.
Yes, thank you.
Brook (58:57):
And now the music that should be the final later.
(59:33):
Yes, thank you.
And now the music which we willfind later.
Thank you.
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