May 6, 2025 • 68 mins
What do autopsy assistants, nuclear medicine, and successful financial planning have in common? For Matt Roop, Partner at Deerfield Financial Advisors, they're all stepping stones on an extraordinary career journey guided by a simple principle: "always raise your hand" for new opportunities.
Matt's path to financial planning began nowhere near the industry. With a degree in nuclear medicine technology, he found himself working as an autopsy assistant during a period of career exploration – a position that led to meeting his wife "over a dead body" as they joke. When the opportunity to join Charles Schwab's expanding operation appeared in the late 1990s, Matt's willingness to try something new set him on an unexpected trajectory through the financial world.
Following his wife's Air Force career took him from Indianapolis to Biloxi, Mississippi, to Washington D.C., each move providing new professional experiences and perspectives. After briefly joining his family's construction business and later running his own financial practice, Matt found his home at Deerfield Financial Advisors, where he eventually became a partner.
Throughout our conversation, Matt shares valuable insights about navigating career transitions, finding fulfillment through client relationships, and balancing business ownership with personal life. His self-described "small boat philosophy" – preferring deep connections with fewer people over numerous shallow relationships – has shaped both his approach to wealth management and his definition of success, which centers on family and meaningful client relationships rather than traditional metrics.
For Matt, failure isn't defined by unsuccessful attempts but by not trying at all. His story reminds us that the most rewarding career paths often emerge when we're brave enough to raise our hands, seize unexpected opportunities, and build genuine connections along the way.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the Owner's Odyssey, the podcast
where we delve deep into thetransformative stories of
courageous business owners whohave embarked on an
extraordinary adventure.
I'm Zach Jones and I'm BrookeGattia.
We're here to explore the reallife experiences of
entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Each episode, we'll embark on a quest to uncover the
trials, triumphs andtransformations of remarkable
individuals who dared to answerthe call of entrepreneurship.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Like all adventurers, our guests have faced their
fair share of challenges,vanquished formidable foes and
braved the unknown.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a
seasoned business owner orsimply an avid listener hungry
for captivating stories.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
The Owner's Odyssey is here to help you level up.
So join us as we embark on thisepic expedition.
This is the Owner's Odyssey.
Let's start our adventure.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Today we have with us Matt Roop.
I said that right, correct,okay, I suck at pronouncing
things sometimes.
And so I met Matt, because whenI acquired Edgewater, matt was
working with Edgewater doingkind of financial planning, kind
(01:25):
of networking stuff somewhereWith some mutual clients.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
And then Matt said hey, let's go get lunch.
And we've done that a couple oftimes and I have found it very
personable to get to chat andlearn a ton about you and not a
ton, but enough about you.
And then I've now had youworking with a number of clients
(01:52):
and been very impressed withhow well you care for more than
just the financial planning partbut the person as a whole.
So I've really just appreciatedknowing you from a kind of
business perspective of things.
So I said, hey, would you liketo come chat with me on a little
podcast thing?
(02:13):
So I I brought Mr Matt, mr Rupp, I don't know what, the right
technical Please not, mr Rupp,turn around looking for my dad.
So thanks for joining us today,thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
This is my first podcast, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
At least on this side of it.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Excellent.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So tell me a little bit about your kind of story
that got you to the point whereyou're being like I'll be a
financial planner.
Like what made you.
What was your kind of journeythat got you to deciding that as
not even just a major but alife stage?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Well, yeah, it was sort of a circuitous path.
I guess I wasn't, you know,finance or accounting or
business major in college.
I was actually a nuclearmedicine technology major.
So uh, lots of biology andphysics and whatnot, chemistry
(03:19):
and college, and uh, when you do, I assume it's still the same
way.
But when you do a nuclearmedicine major in college, your
fourth year is a clinical yearso your senior years a clinical
year.
So you come to my case.
I came from Bloomington up toIndianapolis and and spent the
year in the, in the Med Centerand obviously still some some
(03:43):
coursework, but a lot of time inthe lab and, uh, worked with
great people, I mean myclassmates.
It was all great.
But I pretty quickly realized Iwas like I don't see myself
doing this for the rest of mylife and had a buddy who was a
broker for and this is circa1995, had a buddy who was a
(04:13):
broker for an old firm that hassince been acquired, I think
actually by H&R Block calledOldie Financial, and they were
stockbrokers.
So not the space I'm in now.
But I'd always been interestedin finance, sort of a
superficial level.
I was decent at math and alwaysenjoyed numbers, but probably
(04:40):
liked money as much as anyone,and so I sort of began
investigating that as an optionand was just, you know, doing
some graduate coursework whileI've, you know, tried to grow up
and figure out what I wanted todo and ultimately went to work
for Charles Schwab.
You know this was probably youknow this is when leading up to
(05:01):
2000, the market had reallystarted to take off and Schwab
was really expanding and theywere hiring out of hiring into a
call center in Fishers.
And you know, at the timethey're just they're looking for
people who you know reasonablyintelligent, people that they
could train and turn into, youknow know brokers, and so I did
(05:26):
that um, you know and enjoyedthat um, but you know it was in
a call center so it wasn'tclient facing you know, like I,
like I do now, um met my wife,um and uh, which is an
interesting story in terms ofhow that happened, but we can
(05:47):
talk about that later maybe.
But ultimately we got married.
She was in the Air Force andgot stationed in Biloxi,
mississippi, so Schwab didn't, Iwas working for Schwab, schwab
didn't have anything down there,but there was a Merrill Lynch
office.
So I was like, okay, I'll tryMerrill Lynch.
And so worked there and as a atthat.
(06:07):
By then they began callingfinancial consultants and so I
worked under a couple guys therewho were fantastic, still in
contact with with them today andso kind of learned from them
and was under their tutelage fora few years until my wife was
transferred to Andrews Air ForceBase.
(06:28):
And then I went back to Schwaband was in the Alexandria office
and that's when I really begangetting at Merrill.
I got some client facing timebut I was still, you know,
pretty young and green and I wasa little less green by the time
I got to Alexandria and thenreally began to, you know, work
with clients and getting intomore of the planning stuff.
(06:53):
That studied for my CFP,certified Financial Planner
designation and really begandoing a little more of the heavy
lifting, although you know,looking back on it now it wasn't
that heavy.
But you know, at the time itwas new, it was and it was more
involved, and so we stayed.
(07:13):
I stayed with Schwab, ended upcompleting my MBA at George
Washington and did that Justwant to add that to the arrow to
the quiver, so to speak.
And then we moved back toIndianapolis I worked for, after
my wife separated from the AirForce because we have family
here, family friends and went towork for a small boutique firm
(07:38):
that you know a registeredinvestment advisor like
Deerfield is, and so and that.
And then, uh, yeah, just uh,went, had my own shop for about
a year different part of thestory Um, and then Deerfield
came calling, probably 10 yearsago and, oddly enough, at the
(08:00):
time I was like no, therecruiter called me.
He was, he was looking to filla position with him, and I was
like I'm, I'm okay.
I you know, I I'm good where Iam and uh, he's like no, I
really think you should talk tohim.
You know, I think it'd be agood fit for you.
So I talked to him and here weare, so and uh, so was your
first step into?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
uh, like Charles Schwab way back when, was it
more of a like, like your veryfirst thing of a like?
Speaker 4 (08:25):
well, I don't have anything else to do?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Or were you actually interested in it Cause you went
from nuclear medicine, whichnothing to do with this side of
things?
Like, was there any part of youwhen you were like going to go
to college where you're like manfinances medicine or were're
like heads down medicine andthen you're like I hate this,
I'm just going to pick something, and you just picked it?
(08:49):
Or was there some analysis thatwent into?
This is what I like.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
The Schwab piece.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, like the way back when.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
No, well, I mean I think there was an interest and
it was again, there was a lot ofopportunity just because, given
the environment and you knowthe the way they were expanding
and and so I I was interestedand but it was.
You know, there were probably anumber of things I was
interested at the time you know,as I look back on it, but it
(09:16):
was sort of like yeah, thatsounds good, I'm interested,
it's interesting, so yeah, I'lltry it.
So I you know, I was stillreally trying to figure out what
I wanted to do.
You know, longer term, and soum yeah, it was just it was a
little bit of an easy buttonmaybe.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
Yeah, was it a pretty quick turnaround from the point
of experimenting and tryingthat to the point of like, oh,
this is what I'm gonna do longterm, or yeah, yeah, it really
was um, especially once we movedand I got it and and began more
of the client facing stuff, uh,at merrill.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
And then you know, certainly once um, you know,
once we I went back to schwaband was in the office in
alexandria, so that clientinteraction piece, the face, the
face to face, was kind of thefinal hook, if you will.
So yeah, at that point I was, Iwas in.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Like this is fun.
I get to help people and servethem somewhere in that space of
it.
And they do say that if you canfind something where you feel
like you're serving people,there's a satisfaction that
comes into it.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
And sometimes.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I have to remind myself that when I'm caught in
the weeds of all the tasks thatI'm actually serving people
somewhere in there, sorry.
So you moved back toIndianapolis and you started
(10:49):
working for someone here, butthen you started your own kind
of thing.
Talk to me about that, Likewhat made you say let's start my
own go from a boutique to causeyou went from a boutique to.
I'm going to do my own littlething for a bit, Right?
Speaker 4 (11:04):
With a stop in between, and that's another
piece of the story.
So my family I come from afamily of business owners, and
so my family owned a localconstruction company here and my
dad was an owner, and so heapproached me.
(11:24):
This was when I was with theboutique firm.
He approached me at one thiswas after when I was with the
boutique firm and the boutiquefirm I was with was fantastic.
I had no, no issues there.
But my dad approached me andhe's like look, I want to retire
at some point.
We need somebody.
Would you be interested instepping in and then ultimately
buy me out?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
That's a big jump construction company, yeah Well
and I grew up in it so it wasfamiliar.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
And you know I was in a family business and you know
they'd been successful and Iknew it Again.
I grew up in it, and so I kindof wrestled with that for a
while and ultimately I did go.
But then, you know, it justwasn't going to be a good fit.
I mean my help kind of.
You know, my dad got exited andI just realized that that
(12:12):
wasn't where I was going to needto spend the rest of my life.
So then that's when I, ratherthan go back to the boutique
firm the other firm I was withat that point, I just hung up my
shingle.
I'd had, you know, some clientsthat I'd continued to work with
and, you know, helping on theside, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Um, and then that really took off, um you know, is
it scary for you to be like allright, I'm going to put this
out here and do it myself.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
It was and, and you know, honestly, I felt, um, it
was kind of hard to do itbecause it was sort of, you know
, because the venture with mydad didn't pan out the way I'd
originally planned, and again,it was a great experience.
I mean, I got to spend a lotmore time with him and you know,
I have no regrets about it atall, but it wasn't scary.
(13:01):
I mean, my wife was working andyou know, from unlike a lot, of
, lot of people, a lot of I knowa lot of small business owners
who you know they really put itout there.
They're really putting thingson the line to start a business.
There's a lot of risk involvedand from that standpoint, I
wasn't, you know, I wasn't, Ididn't have that kind of fear or
anything.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Because your other half kind of taking care of
family.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Sure.
So I wasn't worrying aboutwhether we were going to get to
eat because it was a businessventure.
So, yeah, I mean somedisappointment, but I was kind
of coming back home so to speakin terms of going back to what
I'd been doing and what I knew Ireally enjoyed and I and I took
from the experience with youknow, the company that my dad's
company is just, you know my, mywife put it best you know that
(13:56):
that's.
You know, some time that yougot extra time, you got to spend
and work with your dad and soum and and help him and so um so
yeah so it uh, it wasn't scaryjumping back in it, but it was.
It was a little daunting.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
I mean, our industry is very highly regulated, so it
was you know from that, you knowall of the rules and all well,
just yeah and just dotting allthe i's you know compliance.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Uh, you know dotting all the I's, yeah, compliance.
You know dotting all the I's,crossing all the T's, and so it
was a little daunting from thatperspective, but other than that
, I mean I was at ease with it.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah.
And so then the recruiter came,talked to you and you were like
I have my own gig, I'm enjoyingmy own gig, I I don't want to
see where I'm going.
And you liked the people atdeerfield, uh, that's who you
went to next right, I got thatpart of the story.
Um, was there any part of you insaying, okay, I'm gonna join
deerfield?
(14:56):
That was like oh, I didn't makethis work on my own and
disappointment.
Or were you like, no, no, I'mreally.
This is better to do it withpeople than to try to do it on
my own.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
No, I don't think there was I.
There wasn't disappointment inthat regard.
What I really saw wasopportunity to you know, kind of
get help with the stuff that Idid, the compliance and all of
the regulatory stuff and theadministration administrative
stuff.
I thought, okay, I can still do,I can bring my clients, I can
(15:28):
do the things I want to do.
And you know I clearly hit itoff with the folks at Deerfield
and so, you know, it just madesense, you know, and I was
surprised actually I didn'tagain, I wasn't looking to move
um and uh, but you know, themeetings I had went so well and
(15:54):
it all just seemed to kind offall into place like it just
made sense.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
So um, they made you an offer you couldn't refuse,
kind of yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
And you know, one of the things that initially things
have changed a little bit, butinitially that I lost was some
flexibility, because I workedfrom home.
We have four kids so I was, youknow, around more and much more
involved in caring for them,which was cool.
But you know, it sort of havefunny how things work out,
(16:26):
because when Deerfield camecalling they were all kind of
fully in school, you know, alittle older, doing their thing
and and so the timing, uh,really ended up being pretty
good for me to to make the move,so, um, so yeah, so I did, yeah
, and sometimes I, we, I don'tknow, maybe it's just me
(16:47):
sometimes stress out about, ah,like this isn't coming together.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
But then when you look back on things you're like,
okay, that kind of was perfecttiming for my life.
And sometimes it's not alwaysabout orchestrating but just
keeping yourself open to theopportunities that come, whether
it's like all right, I'm opento joining Charles Schwab and
learning something.
Do I really like this too?
I'm open to hanging out with mydad.
(17:10):
I'm sure you brought some ofthe knowledge, even though it
was a family business and youwatched it.
Being in the middle of itprobably taught you a number of
things that you brought intorunning your own business and
then even today of like justbusiness kind of knowledge.
So each one of thoseopportunities kind of I don't
(17:33):
know it, just it it.
Sometimes we try to orchestratethings and if we just step into
the opportunities that are here.
In the end you look back andyou're like that kind of worked
out nicely and that versuspanicking.
You know what's our kind offuture side of things yeah, I
mean deer fields.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Uh, we're a small business, I mean we're 14
employees so you know thatexperience and and uh uh with my
dad's business there's, therewas plenty that I took from that
and again, having grown up init, it felt comfortable coming
(18:11):
into.
And the previous firm I workedfor too was also small.
So small business had alwaysbeen part of my life.
Frankly, with the exception ofthe Schwab and Merrill
opportunities, you know, it'sbeen all small business stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
How was the moving around?
Did that like impact, or wasthat just early enough in your
career that it didn't reallyimpact a whole lot of where you
are?
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Yeah, it was early enough really.
I mean, in some ways I think itwas helpful.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Talking to network.
You have to meet new people allthe time.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Yeah, a little bit and just really different
experiences in different areas.
It turned out different areasof the country, different
cultures literally.
I mean Biloxi, mississippi is alot different than Washington
DC.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, yeah, very true .
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Or you know Washington DC area.
So from that standpoint it wasreally, it was neat.
You know, we have very fondmemories of our time.
Well, speaking for myself, Ihave very fond memories from a
work experience those times inmy life.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
It's interesting following your wife as well.
I've done that following yourwife's career and giving up
everything, and then moving downto Biloxi and then to Virginia.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Yeah, which is a unique thing for my family.
Which is a unique thing for myfamily.
You know, I was uh, I have apretty big family on you know
aunts, uncles, cousins and grewup in Fort Wayne and a lot of us
were there and, and you know,some of us ventured down to, to
Indy, obviously, and, um, but uh, going away.
(20:00):
I was like the first cousin toreally go away and I'm sure
there was a lot of like my gosh,what is he doing?
What is this woman?
Where is this woman taking him?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And then following her career over, yours was, I'm
sure, something else that youhad to battle, not maybe
personally, but people, familyand saying Was that hard for
your?
Speaker 4 (20:21):
family that you deferred to her.
Well, I think it was hard, forI mean, I'm sure it was.
I know it was hard for my momin particular, for us to, for me
to go away.
I have a younger brother whowas home at the time and you
know he ended up moving away tooultimately.
But yeah, I think it was hardand so, um, but you know it, we
(20:45):
were fortunate that we were ableto get back.
Frequently they would come downand visit, I mean, you know,
and, and the interesting thingis, we never really envisioned
moving back to indianapolis, andthen we had kids and that sort
of changed the dynamic and so,uh, but no, it, it, uh, I I'm a
big fan of my wife.
I was happy to, to, to followher.
She's a, she's a, she's aphysician.
(21:06):
She was in the medical corps inthe air force and has since
gone on to do other great things, and so I was.
I was happy to support her andand and follow her and, and you
know, at the same time I got tohave my own little adventure.
I'd never lived outside ofIndiana prior to then, and so
(21:27):
got to go to the Gulf Coast ofMississippi and live there for a
while which was an interestingchange from Indianapolis and
then got to go to the otherextreme and live in Washington
DC for a time, and so it wasagain very fond memories and I
don't regret any of it.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
So you said there was an interesting story with
meeting this wife of yours.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Have I told you this before.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I don't know, I don't think you have.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
So I graduated.
Like I said, I was just takingsome graduate courses just
trying to again figure out whatI was going to do.
Next step it wasn't going to benuclear medicine.
Figure out what I was going todo next step, it wasn't going to
be nuclear medicine.
And there was a posting for ajob on a board outside one of
the classes I was taking and itwas for an autopsy assistant
(22:16):
with the forensic pathologydepartment on campus or at the
medical center.
I was like, well, that's kindof interesting.
And I of course had all therequirements really were just
anatomy and physiology and thatyou wouldn't get sick during an
autopsy, and that was basicallythe litmus test for the
interview.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
I think I might have gotten sick for an autopsy, but
keep talking, yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
So I interviewed for the position and I don't know if
they still have the contract.
I don't know if they still havethe contract, but at the time
the forensic pathologydepartment at IU had the
(22:59):
contract with the Marion Countycoroner and actually for a
number of the coroners aroundthe state, so they would do all
the autopsies, anything that wassuspicious, including all the
bad stuff, including all the badstuff, and so so yeah, so I
that was my job as an autopsyassistant, or the job of the
autopsy assistant was to do theevisceration of the body, taking
out the organs and you know,noting things and whatnot in,
you know, along with the, withthe pathologist who's performing
(23:22):
autopsy, and got to learn howto use an x-ray machine to look
for bullets and other things,and so but, anyway, I think four
of us interviewed for theposition and I was the only one
that didn't get sick, and so Igot the position.
I worked there for a while.
My wife was in her fourth yearmedical school and did a
(23:45):
rotation in forensic pathology.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
And so we met as over a dead body, as she likes to
say.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
So love blossomed in the morgue.
That's great.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
So that's that'd be awesome.
Like, you're like going to aparty and you're like how'd you
guys meet over Over a dead bodyand then just walk away and just
let that be the thing, yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
It's a little unique.
It wasn't at a bar, it wasn'tat church or the grocery store
we met in the morgue.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
That's the epitome of it can happen anywhere.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yes absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Opportunities come everywhere from that side.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
And that was a really neat experience in that
position Obviously not somethingI was going to spend my life
doing, but it allowed me to earnsome money and it was unique
and I did have an interest inthat too, but not from a career
standpoint necessarily, but notfrom a career standpoint
(24:46):
necessarily.
And so, yeah, it ended up beingobviously a really good
experience, because that's whereI met my wife and you rave
about her every time.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I see you.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
You say awesome things about her.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I'm a fan, that's good.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
How long have you been married?
What is it 40?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
years.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Do I look that old?
No, you don't Not at all.
26 years.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
No, Do I look that old?
No, you don't Not at all.
26 years.
Yeah, it's like your kids areold enough so well, that's fun.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
So what do you feel like in all of this journey?
Have been the hardest part ofit.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Hmm, yeah, and that's a tough one because I mean,
I'll be honest, I feel like in alot of ways, I've lived a
pretty charmed life.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I think Is that weird , knowing that, okay, I've kind
of had a really good life andthere's been other people around
me who've had harder lives, andis there been any
reconciliation with that pieceof?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
thing?
No, because it's not like Ihaven't worked hard but, you
know the hard work is.
I've never had what I felt likeare significant setbacks.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I guess that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Maybe that's a different way to put it, but the
hardest thing was probably whenI became an owner at Deerfield.
I had to put on a different hat, you know, and you're you guys
are obviously familiar, um, sothat's probably been the most
more challenging thing and andkind of looking at myself and as
an owner, um, and you kind ofhave to I felt like I really had
(26:41):
to.
I've had to take a look atmyself and really come to grips
with what I'm, what I am good atand what I'm not good at,
Because you know, with somethings that I'm, you know what
about me allows me to be a goodowner and what about me makes me
, you know, gives me opportunityto be a better owner, and so so
(27:02):
what is it that makes you agood and or better owner?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
I'm getting deep, sorry, no, no, no, it's fine.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
And it'll be interesting if anybody from the
office when they listen to this,if they agree with me.
I'm not.
I'd say I'm a pretty easy guyto work with.
(27:35):
I think, from a managementperspective, where I struggle
the most probably is just peoplemanagement, because obviously I
have a supervisory role so Itend to be somebody who's like
I'll just do it.
So the delegation piece istough, which obviously as a
manager you really have to beable to do that well.
(27:56):
Another shout out to my wife.
I think she's excellent at that.
It's a skill I wish I couldtake from her.
But I'd say that's probably mybiggest.
That's been my biggest.
My biggest challenge is justreally trying to step into that
more and become a better um.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Is the delegation a like?
I can do it faster.
You don't have patients fortraining.
Uh, is it um?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Quality.
Uh huh Quality.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Quality of like.
Hey, I like.
What is it that pauses you ondelegating?
Speaker 4 (28:30):
but quality of like, hey, I like.
What is it that pauses you ondelegating?
It's usually because I can doit and move on to the other
things I need to do.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
You know, instead of you know, recognizing the value
of training and the time thatcomes into it Right.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I need to hand this off and give someone else an
opportunity to do it and justknow that you know it's going to
be okay, right, and that it'sreally the best way to go
forward.
Because, I mean, the reality is, if you don't, if I don't
delegate some things, then otherthings will suffer.
(29:06):
If I don't delegate some things, then other things will suffer.
Or I'm not done at 6 o'clockand then it's 8 o'clock because
I've taken this on when I shouldhave passed it on to someone
else, and now everything elsejust bleeds into everything else
.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
I think that's a common struggle too for people
that are top performers in, youknow, kind of very solo roles,
like as an advisor.
you know, you're a team of one.
You know, outside of theadministrative piece of things
or whatever it might be, you'rehaving one-on-one conversations.
You're kind of responsible foryou know developing the game
(29:42):
plan in a very kind of solo wayto so to incorporate other
people and you know start todelegate those things when you
have been performing at such ahigh level is you know to kind
of uh, go from an A plus studentto you know, whatever the
(30:02):
average of everyone that you'redelegating to is and that can be
a tough, you know, kind of.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Do you struggle figuring out how to get what's
in your brain out to otherpeople?
A little bit, yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
And it's not.
It's never been a confidenceissue in, in our people.
We've been blessed withfantastic people.
It's it's strictly time.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah, that's what I feel a lot I'm like okay, I
brought someone in and I justdon't have the bandwidth and I
apologize, usually all over theplace when I'm doing it.
I'm like okay, I know I need toshow you how to do this, I'll
show you this and I have to goover to this.
It's pure bandwidth of time thattraining someone takes, but you
value them and you want to nothave them sit there and twiddle
(30:48):
their thumbs and be bored,because you want them inspired
and bringing stuff to the table,um, but it's a lot of work and
finding the balance, but there'salso a patience and a grace to
yourself in the midst of it too,of like, well, yeah, I can I
only can do this today, but I'llget the rest of it over to you.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
But I, yes, it is very difficult figuring out how
to add that to the plethora ofthings you have to do in the
midst of it, and so I think thesort of I don't want to say a
breakthrough moment or a momentof clarity was when I realized
(31:30):
that that is a big hole in myrepertoire, like I kind of suck
at that, and once I sort ofrecognized it and embraced it,
then it actually made it easierfor me to tackle it rather than
just denying it and and say, eh,you know it's, it's, it's not a
problem, you know, just youknow.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
That is interesting.
Like we, we don't.
I did that with a doctor'sappointment.
Like I've gone to a functionalmedicine person cause I get two
o'clock.
I'm like dead tired and I'msitting there meeting with her
and she's like, yeah, do youtake vitamins?
And I'm like, no, I don't takevitamins, I hate swallowing
pills.
She's like, well, maybe youshould start that, that might
(32:16):
help.
And there's a bunch of otherstuff that goes into this.
But it was this moment of like.
I wasn't willing to look andsee what the problem is and like
and just face that true likething and that's not even
business, that's side things.
But it's so very true that whenyou're able to just acknowledge
, okay, this is something I'mnot very good at or it's a weak
point, that point in time youcan address it, versus if you're
(32:39):
just like, no, I don't havethis problem, like sort of thing
, you just it just continues tobe a problem.
So the kind of the humbleness Ithink it takes to be a business
owner and switch into that hattakes us.
You have to drop your ego to bea good one.
I feel like it.
(32:59):
And it's hard to drop your egoand just be like all right, this
is what I'm not good at.
This is what I need you to be.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Practice that radical self-awareness.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yeah, and just face the things that swallow your
vitamin pill sort of.
Thing.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
Do you feel like there are certain tips or
tactics that once you did say,okay, this is something that I
need to put some active workinto, or practice into being a
more effective delegator orleader, or whatever the term may
be?
Is there content that you'veabsorbed, or people that you've
(33:37):
talked to, or certain thingsthat you've worked through that
you feel have been particularlyhelpful or transformative for
you in that space, or is it justconsistency and practice?
Speaker 4 (33:51):
yeah, I think consistency, um, I I try I read
a lot and so, uh, in my, myreading regimen, if you will, I,
I I always try to have like twoor three books going and one of
those books is some kind of Itry to make it some kind of
(34:12):
self-help or self-improvementtype book, and so that's kind of
my weird way of keeping thatfront and center.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
If you will.
What's your current?
Speaker 4 (34:24):
book.
Well, I'm kind of between books.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Which one did you just finish?
Speaker 4 (34:33):
I just finished the.
What was it called?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
I hate when people put me on the spot.
Yeah, people put me on the spot.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
I'm reading a book called I Heard you Paint Houses,
which is about Frank Sheeranand the Jimmy Hoffa thing.
Interesting.
What was the name of the book?
Speaker 3 (34:54):
It was the 5 am Club, oh so this is the group that's
like wake up at 5, get all thisstuff done before like 11 am it
was kind of a weird book it wasit, you know it was yeah yeah,
yeah, so, um, and then there's aI pretend I can wake up at 5 am
(35:15):
and I yeah, never do, but sorry, I'm gonna spy.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
I always say I'm an aspiring morning person.
But um, yeah, so the 5 am Club.
You know books like SevenHabits or Atomic Habits.
I really enjoyed that one.
Just things like that.
Just keep it like.
(35:38):
I'm always aware, but you know,when you're reading things
consistently that remind you,for me that's the best way to
kind of keep driving that intomy brain yeah, I think the more
frameworks that you have and themore language you have to kind
of, you know, look at it fromdifferent perspectives and that
kind of stuff.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
That's a great way to kind of reveal your own short
sides and you know, findactionable steps to to kind of
move away from them.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
So when you moved into being a business like a
partner, how did your stresslevel change with that?
I mean I'm assuming theexpectations changed.
Did that change your delight atall in the work that you're
doing, Did it?
(36:30):
Did you feel a heaviness thatcame on as you went to that, or
was it an excitement, Like kindof what was the feeling that you
went through?
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Well, I was flattered , first, First and foremost,
that my now partners, you know,had the confidence to, you know,
offer me an opportunity tobecome an owner.
So I was, and didn't really seethat, coming to be honest, not
(36:59):
for any particular reason, justhadn't really considered it.
And so I was flattered thatthey felt that they had the
confidence in me to partner withthem.
And then, I don't know, itwasn't, I didn't feel a
heaviness, I was really excited.
It was a different hat, as Isaid earlier, and so I was just
(37:23):
excited at the challenge and theopportunities.
And we'd gone through a coupleof transitions internally.
You know, we had a someoneleave and we've got an office in
Chicago, so the person thatleft was in Chicago, and so we
were, you know, battling notbattling that, but just, you
(37:43):
know, making sure that we hadcontinuity and all that.
So, and then when I, you know,when I came on board, the owner
or the founder was exiting.
So that was a process too, andso there had always been these
things going on.
And then, leading up to, youknow, my becoming a partner,
we'd sort of tackled all thosethings and we were, I felt like
(38:06):
we as a firm, and then, for mepersonally, we're in a brand new
spot.
All this other stuff was behindus and it just felt like there
was this great opportunity infront of me personally,
obviously, and for us as a firm.
So, yeah, it's been fantastic.
(38:26):
So yeah, it's been fantastic.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
I've really enjoyed the new challenges and, of
course, love the people I workwith and have enjoyed.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
It makes a difference when you have the right people
you work with and it's fun toyou know.
The conversations are obviouslya little different now than
when I was not an owner A wholedifferent set of meetings that
I'm part of now, when I was notan owner, a whole different set
of meetings that I'm part of now.
But yeah, I would say it'sexcitement was sort of the
prevailing feeling once ithappened.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Do you find that?
Speaker 4 (39:01):
you have.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
how is the balance in your life?
I'm trying to figure out how tophrase that question, Like do
you feel like all of a sudden,now you're a partner and you're
working a ton more as a partner,or are you like?
No, this journey and how I'vegone through it, has I've still
been able to kind of balance.
And how do you fill your cupeven outside of work side of
things?
Speaker 4 (39:27):
No, I don't feel like I've.
I don't feel like the balance.
I feel like I've been able tomaintain balance.
Um, you know, we've done somehiring and some things to uh
cause, cause the partner piecekind of coincided with a, a um
sort of a renewed focus ongrowth and we've experienced
growth and so that'snecessitated some hiring and so,
(39:49):
you know, I've been able tokind of maintain the balance
still work, still work a lot.
I think that you know the thebeauty of of the way we work, or
you know how we work, is we cankind of do it anywhere, right,
Obviously, we had a lot of a lotof client facing stuff, but
COVID really changed things alot for us because we always had
(40:11):
the capability of doing remotework and Teams meetings or Zoom
calls, and that sort of COVIDforced us to do it, forced
clients to embrace it too, andthen a lot of clients figured
out, hey, I really like this.
Yeah, so Do you really like it.
(40:33):
The remote use I do.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
I do, I love it, I mean it allows.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
You know, and in my which you know this my wife
retired recently, uh-huh.
So which sort of retired?
She retired from her previousjob, she'll she can't sit still,
no, she can't sit still.
So she's going to do someconsulting stuff, but certainly
wait, significantly dialed backfrom what she was doing.
But, you know, and then all ofour kids are now in college or
(41:01):
beyond, and so we have, you know, we're empty nesters, we have
the opportunity to travel alittle bit more, and so, um,
yeah, we're going to do that andso, but I can do that and still
work and feel connected, youknow, get restored and
rejuvenated, while also stayingconnected and being very
productive, and so I'm reallythankful for that.
(41:23):
That's been a blessing, that'sbeen a blessing, and so, yeah, I
think that's allowed me to.
Really that flexibility hasreally been good for me to
maintain that balance.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
But still be engaged.
Where's your burning desire togo and visit?
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Oh, yeah, well, there are a number of places I'd
really like to go right now.
This will speak to you.
I'm really high on my list isthe, the, the british isles.
I'd really love to go see.
Uh, I've never been to englandor would love to go to england,
scotland, ireland, wales, um, uh, I'd love to see australia a
(42:03):
little, a little unnerved by allthe tiktok videos and the
animals that are in australia,but yeah, you know um, they
supersized all the, all the bugsand, oh my gosh, it's like, uh,
it's like a jurassic park.
Yeah, it really is um, and thenuh, bora bora has always been,
or the maldives has always been,very appealing, it's just uh
(42:25):
you know, you know, the hutsover the water which seem to be
creeping into the Caribbean alot too.
It's not as unique as it.
That concept is not as uniqueas it used to be.
But yeah, those are.
We've begun talking about maybegoing to Italy.
We have some friends that justwent to Italy and, of course,
loved it.
So, yeah, those are kind of topof the list for now.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
But Very cool.
Speaker 4 (42:52):
We've done some, some , some hopping around in the
States, you know, kind of wecall them workations where we we
just especially this time ofyear.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Go somewhere warm yeah, work remote yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
We went to Phoenix, went out to Palm Springs, which
I kind of fell in love with PalmSprings, I love it out there
and literally worked.
I mean I tell the story thefirst time we did it my wife was
still working in her previousposition.
We went out there and we wouldget up.
Of course it's three hoursdifference.
We would get up at like 4 am.
We stayed on indiana time.
(43:28):
We get up at 4 am and work.
Of course it was dark out there,but we'd work until one or two
and then we'd go hiking and youknow, do the things out in uh in
in palm springs, and the resortwe stayed at had a nice hot tub
and pool, so we'd do somephysical activity, come back,
hit the hot tub and then we werein bed by like eight o'clock
(43:50):
but it was yeah, and you know itwas.
It was six degrees back here andit was 70 out there.
So yeah, we still got to, youknow, unplug and you know kind
of get some restorative time outthere and still be productive
and not feel completelydisconnected, the complete
disconnect thing.
I don't know if I could do thatSometimes it's hard Not having
(44:12):
access.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Yeah, because you're like, okay, come back to a giant
pile of stuff, and so sometimesit's easier to maintain a few
little pieces and find thatbalance of things while you're
doing it.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Yeah, my wife always said when we would go on
vacation she would, if she itactually helped her relax, if
she could just check things alittle bit, you know not spend
hours and hours, but just, youknow 30 minutes to run through
email, just to make sure thatyou know the house isn't on fire
.
Back, you know, back home.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Actually allowed her to relax more, and that's always
resonated with me.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
It's kind of interesting how that works.
So what do you feel like in allof your journey was the most
helpful thing that you learnedthat positioned you and maybe
it's not a most helpful, butwhat is it about your journey
that positioned you?
Well, to be like, I'm a partnerand now I'm kind of running,
not running but like I'm part ofthat running Um.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
I think it's funny.
It's funny you ask that Causewe were my wife and I were both
talking to our son about thisyou always raise your hand, like
if an opportunity comes up,always raise your hand.
You know um and and accept thechallenge right, don't, don't
(45:32):
shy away from new opportunities.
Always be willing to kind ofput yourself out there and and
do something different.
You know, I wouldn't put it onquite the same level, but even
you know me moving to Biloxi,that was kind of put myself out
there.
It was a change, you know, andthe interesting thing is my I
was kind of putting myself outthere.
It was a change, you know.
And the interesting thing is mywife and I didn't just kind of
(45:52):
an aside, we didn't.
We met in February of 2007 andwe were married by April of 2008
.
So we got married, we'd knowneach other for, you know, 14
months and then moved to acompletely different city
together.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Did you get married that fast?
Because she was in the military.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
No, okay, no, because we actually were.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
You just really liked each other.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Well, yeah, and she had actually.
So she finished her fourth yearin May of 2007 and moved to
Biloxi.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
So we did the long distancing for a couple months,
yeah, for a while, and I do hearthat from you guys as you're
talking through your journey oflike you, just you stepped into
every opportunity that seemed topresent itself and just been
like okay, let's just do thisand not fretting and just going
okay, let's just do this and notfretting and just going, all
(46:49):
right, here's an opportunity,I'm going to try it and see
where it leads.
And that's kind of you know,you're always raise your hand,
always.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
And don't look back too.
I mean I've always been, Idon't know for better or worse,
been able to just kind of moveon right.
Like, done with that, moving on, and you know know, take what
what I can from the previousexperience but learn, don't beat
yourself up right
Speaker 5 (47:11):
just move forward, yeah where do you think that
mentality comes from?
Is that a parenting thing orsomething innate to your dna, or
something you learned along theroad.
Speaker 4 (47:24):
I don't know, I mean it.
It's a good question that notperseverating on the bad stuff,
(47:52):
if there's any bad stuff behindyou just moving on, because if
you think about it, obviously itcan drag you down.
So maybe that's it, I don'tknow.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Good question, I don't like to sit in my emotions
, so I don't want to sit thereand reflect on all of the things
that might be hard.
I'm like, I'm done, move onLike I got to find a different
emotion that's easier to handle.
I don't know if that's healthyor not, but I definitely think
you know, I know that that'spart of me.
So well, at the end of thesethings I like to do a little.
(48:20):
We call them lightning round.
That turns into long round.
I don't know, the short longround, somehow the short long
round somehow or another, whereI just ask random questions and
just kind of see what youranswers are.
So, all right.
So my first one is you're at anetworking event.
What drink are you drinking?
Speaker 4 (48:42):
Oh, what time of day.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
I don't know you.
You, that's part of thequestion, like me, like in the
morning it's a, a Bloody Mary,and then in the evening you know
whatever.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
I'll assume it's an after hours thing, probably a
bourbon neat.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
Okay, my other half does old fashions all the time.
Speaker 4 (49:02):
I like an old fashion too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Yeah, I'm a wino, although my doctors have told me
that's probably why I'm notsleeping very well at night.
So trying um little.
Things that happen as you getolder, uh, all right.
Favorite person to followpodcast instagram book tiktok
about australia uh animals ofaustralia.
Speaker 4 (49:23):
I'm not strange to say on a podcast, I don't listen
to a ton of podcasts.
I I will say I, I don't know,I'm probably going to ruffle
some feathers.
I like Joe Rogan, because ofthe variety of people that he
has on, not necessarily, youknow, be just being a political.
He has some really neat peopleand I think, from a diverse, a
(49:50):
diversity of guests standpoint.
I've found his podcast to beinteresting.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
You know, again, setting any controversial
comments aside, you don't haveto agree with them to find him
interesting.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (50:02):
I appreciate his curiosity.
I think, he's genuinely curioustoo, which leads to having lots
of other you know sort ofatypical guests.
It's not the same, you know.
You watch Fox news you get thesame kind of guests.
You watch MSNBC you get thesame kind of people you know his
.
I feel like he's he's done agood job of mixing it up.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
you know again, any other controversies aside, Are
there books that you say youread a lot of books?
Is there a particular artistthat you artist?
Author.
Author.
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (50:33):
It could be artists too, I guess.
No, I like the science fictiongenre.
I'm a big fan of science fiction, always have been, so I read a
lot of science fiction books.
I like Ken Follett.
I was hooked by his first.
(50:53):
The two books of his that Ifirst read were Pillars of the
Earth, and I forget the name ofthe other one, but it was a
sequel to that.
Fantastic and different notscience fiction, historical
fiction.
And different not sciencefiction, historical fiction.
And then there's a centurytrilogy which he's I don't know
how old it is at this point, butI just started the first book
(51:20):
of that, falling Giants.
So no, there's not.
I would say if there's anoverarching thing, it would be
science fiction.
I really do enjoy sciencefiction, but not a particular
author.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
I read a lot of Stephen King growing up, Just
books like therapy a little bit.
I don't know therapy for mesometimes.
Speaker 4 (51:44):
Yeah, I mean it's sort of an escape.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
Not that I'm looking to escape, but it's just
interesting to enter differentworlds.
Your mind just needs to releaseto something different and then
, when it can, it can come backto things creatively, and so
that's not necessarily escape.
I think that's healthy.
Well, it also helps me get tosleep.
Speaker 4 (52:00):
To be honest, it actually helps me remove myself
from the work stuff, and so Ican kind of quiet my mind to
actually go to bed.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Yeah, no, that's a.
We've talked about sleep manytimes and stuff, so how late is
fashionably late.
Speaker 4 (52:18):
Um well, I would say, depending on the event, but
five minutes I'm not a big fanof.
You're never late, I've never.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
I'm the one who's late.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
When we connect for things you're always there
before me it's not bad.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
Five minutes, maybe ten, I've had people say one
minute past is.
You know you are five minutesearly or you are late, sort of
thing.
You have to give A little grace.
Speaker 4 (52:46):
I was going to the ophthalmologist the other day
and got behind a an accidentthat had just happened on 31,
and there's nowhere to go.
And like that's not my fault,it's not anyone's fault.
Speaker 5 (52:58):
I think everyone that's answered that way has had
some kind of militaryinvolvement.
Speaker 3 (53:03):
Where they're like five minutes earlier.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
That is very true, that'll change your whole
attitude around those things.
Speaker 4 (53:13):
On that point, my watch is always set to military
time.
And the clock in my car is setto military time.
I got used to it, so somethings stick.
Speaker 3 (53:26):
I turned mine to military time when I was in
London because that's howeverything is there and I
couldn't.
I could never do the math in mybrain fast enough, so I was
like I'm just going to put it onthat and just start operating
that way.
What's your biggest pet peeve?
Speaker 4 (53:43):
Jesse's hard questions.
Yeah, this will sound kind ofweird Pillows on the floor, like
our kids like if they knock apillow off and it's on the floor
and they don't like I don't,there's something about that.
Speaker 3 (54:04):
Like.
Speaker 4 (54:04):
I put my head on that .
Speaker 5 (54:07):
Somehow I knew that was going to be the next thing
out of your mouth Like I put myhead on that.
Speaker 4 (54:12):
I don't want it on the floor.
I mean, you know, I think youknow we keep the house pretty
clean.
But come on, I don't know,that's, that's a, probably a
weird one.
But we have two.
First thing that comes to mind.
Speaker 5 (54:22):
We have two dogs that love to just like tackle our
pillows when we're not usingthem and I have the same it's
like come on, man, I'm gonnasleep there.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
You got your slumbery all laws all over.
Speaker 5 (54:34):
Yeah, don't be sitting on it and licking it and
whatever else.
Speaker 3 (54:40):
What You're going to hate me for this one?
What's your personal motto?
Always raise your hand.
Speaker 4 (54:55):
I don't know, just go with it, don't sweat it.
Yeah, I can see that about you.
Roll with it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
Just flex, kind of chill, like we're just going to
flow, like the situation is notgoing to rile my feathers up,
which yeah.
Yeah, and that's not to saythings aren't urgent, but I can
totally see that about you.
Yeah, and that's not to saythings aren't urgent, but I can
totally see that about you.
Yeah, I've never, at least formyself, exuding urgency or
(55:23):
feeling urgent and the sometimeswhich you know, maybe it's just
an unfortunate or unfortunatebyproduct, but that's, it's not
apathy, it's just, you know,control what I can, I control
what I can control yeah, no, Ifound that I was working with
(55:48):
the software people and I wasfrustrated because they're
taking forever to do some stuffand I'm like, okay, it's not
worth getting all bent out ofshape, and sometimes you just go
all right, here's the situationwe're in, we're just going to
flow with it and the world's notgoing to fall apart.
Yes, and so, yeah, I get them.
Speaker 4 (56:04):
The sun will rise tomorrow, right.
Speaker 3 (56:08):
What color do you think of when you think of a
business owner?
Speaker 4 (56:15):
Let me get to the psychology navy blue like the
business.
Speaker 3 (56:17):
This is so crazy.
Speaker 4 (56:18):
It is so crazy yeah sorry, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (56:20):
I've asked this question to a lot of people and
they walk in and they give me ananswer and they're wearing that
color and so no one said navyblue yet.
But you are, in essence, kindof wearing that Navy-ish,
navy-ish a bluish type.
Yeah, it's almost gray, I guess.
But yeah.
Navy blue.
Speaker 4 (56:36):
Yeah, I don't know, I think of business.
I still think of and this iskind of old school I just think
of like a, like a wall streetbanker and a Navy blue suit with
a red tie you know, white shirtand you're, so you probably
also have that Wall Street-ishstuff around you.
It's interesting how not WallStreet we are, though, like you
(56:58):
know, wall Street is I'm notpicking on what you said, but it
is.
You know.
I still have had people say, oh, so you're a broker Like I'm
not a what?
No?
We don't sell anything.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
Right.
Speaker 4 (57:12):
I don't sell anything , right?
I don't know.
Some things die hard.
Speaker 3 (57:17):
Well, people come to me and they think I can help
them do their financial planning.
I'm like no, I don't.
That's a whole different worldof math and thought pattern and
strategy.
And, yeah, I can give you myopinion, but it's not the right
opinion all the time.
So talk to someone who isthinking like that Um, but
(57:38):
what's your superpower?
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Picking up pillows.
Speaker 3 (57:44):
Picking up pillows, I'm really good at picking up
pillows.
Speaker 4 (57:47):
Really good at picking up pillows.
Um, I don't know pillows, Idon't know.
I'm just.
I don't say this.
This isn't like self-loathing.
Sometimes I think, when you askquestions like that, I'm just
not a very interesting guy LikeI don't have a super path.
Speaker 3 (58:07):
But I mean you can probably go back to your
personal motto.
Like you're not easily riled,yeah, I would say that.
Speaker 4 (58:12):
that's that.
That's probably.
I was going to go to that, butI was trying to think of
something pithy for you.
Speaker 3 (58:17):
No, you don't have to .
Speaker 4 (58:19):
But yeah, I think, yeah, my ability to just kind of
move on, you know I don't dwell, I just, yeah, I try to, I
don't stew.
Speaker 5 (58:34):
So maybe that's a superpower, there's a
fearlessness or a courage tothat as well, just in everything
that you've said today of justlike, whatever the next
opportunity is, you know it's,yeah, it's a brave Like unique
to, to be able to just seizethat at every you know turn and
(58:55):
not be second guessing yourselfor, uh, you know,
overcomplicating.
Speaker 4 (59:03):
It could be perceived as denial too.
Speaker 3 (59:07):
Avoidance, we're going to go with a positive flip
.
End of it, yeah.
I like that.
Um so last two questions.
Speaker 4 (59:20):
What do you define as success?
Well, I would define my success.
I think it's very subjectiveand obviously it's happiness and
whatever makes you happy.
For me personally, it's myfamily, it's my friends and, I
think, the relationships that'sto me, that's what makes me
(59:46):
successful in my life.
It may not be successful toother people.
It may not be successful toother people, but I think that's
the relationships I have withmy kids and my wife, my family,
(01:00:07):
my friends, and I'm a small boatguy, as my friend Heidi coined
the term.
You know we're all kind of likeboats, right?
My friend Heidi coined the term.
you know we're all kind of likeboats, right?
If you equated us to boats andthe number of people you like to
have in the boat, I'm a smallboat guy.
I'm probably a canoe.
My wife is more of a cruiseship right.
(01:00:27):
Like she likes lots of people.
So in my small boat I have verystrong relationships of which
I'm very appreciative and makesme happy and I think makes me
successful, yeah, so kind of acop out no, it's not, it's
actually very beautiful ofsuccess is cultivating deep
(01:00:49):
relationships in your life.
Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
And I see that in the work you do, because and I've
mentioned this to you and Imentioned it to people I refer
you to like you care about themand where they're going in a
much deeper fashion than likelet me just plan out your stuff,
like let's you want to sellyour business, like hey, let me
help you analyze the sale withyou.
(01:01:12):
Like let's talk through thatfear factor and kind of all of
those pieces, and so I, um, Ivalue, I, I value that in you
from a business perspective.
Um, I think it's very thatbeing your definition of success
emanates and how you canconnect with people and and do
things, so I can see that aboutyou.
Speaker 4 (01:01:33):
Yeah, I was actually going to say I think that's
carried through to my practiceis getting invested in clients
and not just the superficialstuff, like you said, just
really understanding who theyare, what makes them tick,
(01:01:55):
what's important to them.
You know, getting theopportunity to do that makes me
feel successful, you know,because you know it equips me to
be, you know, a better advisorand give them better advice, and
so I really enjoy that piece,that investment in who they are.
(01:02:21):
And we've been blessed atDeerfield with
multi-generational relationshipswe've had with you know.
We're now, you know, workingwith the grandkids of clients,
and so that personal aspect isvery important for us as a firm
and, of course, me personally.
And so, yeah, that's.
I think you know we're not thebiggest firm in town.
(01:02:43):
We're not, you know, by anymetric.
But I think we're all pretty,you know successful in that
regard Um just those deeprelationships.
Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
So then, on the flip side of it, that's not always a
direct opposite.
What is the um, what's thedefinition of failure for you?
Speaker 4 (01:03:10):
I think not trying is a failure.
I mean I think trying somethingand in a traditional sense
failing can be a win, right?
I mean again I mentioned wewere talking to our son about
this like raising your hand Imean the failure is not in not
(01:03:32):
succeeding at something, youknow, a particular task or
whatever.
To me and my wife shares thesame sentiment not trying is the
failure.
That doesn't mean you doeverything, but if you're
presented with something thatyou really want to do but you're
afraid of failing, then thatbecomes a failure, right, the
(01:03:57):
fact that you don't really tryit.
So to me, I never fault peoplefor trying something that they
really wanted to try, like theirheart was in it, or it's just
something they want to tackle,and then by any other
conventional measure they fail,measure they fail.
You know you did it right, likeyou tried, and that's.
(01:04:18):
There's a lot of success inthat, because even the failure
you know, we all know you learnprobably learn more from your
failures than your successes.
Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
Yep Very much All the time.
Speaker 4 (01:04:30):
Daily.
Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, thank you very much forjoining and telling us a little
bit about your journey, thanksfor having me.
Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
This is fun yeah, I, it's.
Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
One of my favorite things to do right now is just
to sit here and chit chat withpeople, but, um, we do like to
give an opportunity, if there'sanything you want to kind of
plug or tell people how to findyou or various different things.
How might they find you?
Uh?
Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
yeah, sure, I mean we're um uh, probably the
easiest way to learn more aboutus is our, our website it's just
deerfield fa for deerfield,Deerfield FA for Deerfield,
Financial Advisors, Deerfield FAdot com.
And yeah, I mean we're just ifpeople have stumbled across us
(01:05:28):
and didn't get the full skinnyon who we are.
We're a full service wealthmanagement firm.
We do I liken what we do tobeing personal CFOs.
So, as I told somebody theother day, if it has a dollar
sign in front of it, we can.
You know we work with people onit.
So we and we work, we kind ofwork as the quarterback of for
folks' financial team and it caninclude CPAs, state attorneys,
(01:05:52):
you know, insurance brokers,things like that.
So we really pride ourselves onworking collaboratively with
people, other professionalsagain, all working towards the
same goal of helping peopleachieve their near and long-term
goals.
So any interest, check us outon the website.
Should I throw the phone numberout there 317-469-2455, call
(01:06:18):
the office.
One thing I will say is when weget most of our new business
comes from referrals fromexisting clients.
But on the off chance that weget somebody that just happens
to call in or finds us, on theoff chance that we get somebody
that just happens to call in orfinds us on the website, we're
real intentional about kind ofvetting out who the potential
(01:06:42):
client is and who they mightwork best with.
There are six advisors now.
Six, seven advisors, sorry,we're all a little different,
right.
Um, six, seven advisors, sorry,um, we're all a little
different, right, like we all.
We all have, uh, we all do agreat job.
Uh, I will say, but we do.
You know, from a personalityperspective, we're all a little
bit different and, and you knowwe do a real good job of trying
(01:07:05):
to match folks with um, um, youknow the right, the right person
, the right personality, becausethat's obviously important.
We're heavily involved withclients.
I mean we, we touch clientsprobably more than you know most
other professionals, justbecause you know, throughout the
year it's, you know we're notseasonal or anything, and so you
(01:07:27):
know it's important that youmesh well with your, with your
advisor, and so we're veryintentional about, um, you know,
trying to make sure that, uh,you get with the right person.
Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Yeah, so it's very cool.
Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (01:07:41):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
Yeah, we're very grateful that you're on this.
Thank you, bye.
Hello and welcome to the Owner's Odyssey, the podcast
where we delve deep into thetransformative stories of
courageous business owners whohave embarked on an
extraordinary adventure.
I'm Zach Jones and I'm BrookeGattia.
We're here to explore the reallife experiences of
entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Each episode, we'll embark on a quest to uncover the
trials, triumphs andtransformations of remarkable
individuals who dared to answerthe call of entrepreneurship.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Like all adventurers, our guests have faced their
fair share of challenges,vanquished formidable foes and
braved the unknown.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a
seasoned business owner orsimply an avid listener hungry
for captivating stories.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
The Owner's Odyssey is here to help you level up.
So join us as we embark on thisepic expedition.
This is the Owner's Odyssey.
Let's start our adventure.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Today we have with us Matt Roop.
I said that right, correct,okay, I suck at pronouncing
things sometimes.
And so I met Matt, because whenI acquired Edgewater, matt was
working with Edgewater doingkind of financial planning, kind
(01:25):
of networking stuff somewhereWith some mutual clients.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
And then Matt said hey, let's go get lunch.
And we've done that a couple oftimes and I have found it very
personable to get to chat andlearn a ton about you and not a
ton, but enough about you.
And then I've now had youworking with a number of clients
(01:52):
and been very impressed withhow well you care for more than
just the financial planning partbut the person as a whole.
So I've really just appreciatedknowing you from a kind of
business perspective of things.
So I said, hey, would you liketo come chat with me on a little
podcast thing?
(02:13):
So I I brought Mr Matt, mr Rupp, I don't know what, the right
technical Please not, mr Rupp,turn around looking for my dad.
So thanks for joining us today,thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
This is my first podcast, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
At least on this side of it.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Excellent.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So tell me a little bit about your kind of story
that got you to the point whereyou're being like I'll be a
financial planner.
Like what made you.
What was your kind of journeythat got you to deciding that as
not even just a major but alife stage?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Well, yeah, it was sort of a circuitous path.
I guess I wasn't, you know,finance or accounting or
business major in college.
I was actually a nuclearmedicine technology major.
So uh, lots of biology andphysics and whatnot, chemistry
(03:19):
and college, and uh, when you do, I assume it's still the same
way.
But when you do a nuclearmedicine major in college, your
fourth year is a clinical yearso your senior years a clinical
year.
So you come to my case.
I came from Bloomington up toIndianapolis and and spent the
year in the, in the Med Centerand obviously still some some
(03:43):
coursework, but a lot of time inthe lab and, uh, worked with
great people, I mean myclassmates.
It was all great.
But I pretty quickly realized Iwas like I don't see myself
doing this for the rest of mylife and had a buddy who was a
broker for and this is circa1995, had a buddy who was a
(04:13):
broker for an old firm that hassince been acquired, I think
actually by H&R Block calledOldie Financial, and they were
stockbrokers.
So not the space I'm in now.
But I'd always been interestedin finance, sort of a
superficial level.
I was decent at math and alwaysenjoyed numbers, but probably
(04:40):
liked money as much as anyone,and so I sort of began
investigating that as an optionand was just, you know, doing
some graduate coursework whileI've, you know, tried to grow up
and figure out what I wanted todo and ultimately went to work
for Charles Schwab.
You know this was probably youknow this is when leading up to
(05:01):
2000, the market had reallystarted to take off and Schwab
was really expanding and theywere hiring out of hiring into a
call center in Fishers.
And you know, at the timethey're just they're looking for
people who you know reasonablyintelligent, people that they
could train and turn into, youknow know brokers, and so I did
(05:26):
that um, you know and enjoyedthat um, but you know it was in
a call center so it wasn'tclient facing you know, like I,
like I do now, um met my wife,um and uh, which is an
interesting story in terms ofhow that happened, but we can
(05:47):
talk about that later maybe.
But ultimately we got married.
She was in the Air Force andgot stationed in Biloxi,
mississippi, so Schwab didn't, Iwas working for Schwab, schwab
didn't have anything down there,but there was a Merrill Lynch
office.
So I was like, okay, I'll tryMerrill Lynch.
And so worked there and as a atthat.
(06:07):
By then they began callingfinancial consultants and so I
worked under a couple guys therewho were fantastic, still in
contact with with them today andso kind of learned from them
and was under their tutelage fora few years until my wife was
transferred to Andrews Air ForceBase.
(06:28):
And then I went back to Schwaband was in the Alexandria office
and that's when I really begangetting at Merrill.
I got some client facing timebut I was still, you know,
pretty young and green and I wasa little less green by the time
I got to Alexandria and thenreally began to, you know, work
with clients and getting intomore of the planning stuff.
(06:53):
That studied for my CFP,certified Financial Planner
designation and really begandoing a little more of the heavy
lifting, although you know,looking back on it now it wasn't
that heavy.
But you know, at the time itwas new, it was and it was more
involved, and so we stayed.
(07:13):
I stayed with Schwab, ended upcompleting my MBA at George
Washington and did that Justwant to add that to the arrow to
the quiver, so to speak.
And then we moved back toIndianapolis I worked for, after
my wife separated from the AirForce because we have family
here, family friends and went towork for a small boutique firm
(07:38):
that you know a registeredinvestment advisor like
Deerfield is, and so and that.
And then, uh, yeah, just uh,went, had my own shop for about
a year different part of thestory Um, and then Deerfield
came calling, probably 10 yearsago and, oddly enough, at the
(08:00):
time I was like no, therecruiter called me.
He was, he was looking to filla position with him, and I was
like I'm, I'm okay.
I you know, I I'm good where Iam and uh, he's like no, I
really think you should talk tohim.
You know, I think it'd be agood fit for you.
So I talked to him and here weare, so and uh, so was your
first step into?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
uh, like Charles Schwab way back when, was it
more of a like, like your veryfirst thing of a like?
Speaker 4 (08:25):
well, I don't have anything else to do?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Or were you actually interested in it Cause you went
from nuclear medicine, whichnothing to do with this side of
things?
Like, was there any part of youwhen you were like going to go
to college where you're like manfinances medicine or were're
like heads down medicine andthen you're like I hate this,
I'm just going to pick something, and you just picked it?
(08:49):
Or was there some analysis thatwent into?
This is what I like.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
The Schwab piece.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, like the way back when.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
No, well, I mean I think there was an interest and
it was again, there was a lot ofopportunity just because, given
the environment and you knowthe the way they were expanding
and and so I I was interestedand but it was.
You know, there were probably anumber of things I was
interested at the time you know,as I look back on it, but it
(09:16):
was sort of like yeah, thatsounds good, I'm interested,
it's interesting, so yeah, I'lltry it.
So I you know, I was stillreally trying to figure out what
I wanted to do.
You know, longer term, and soum yeah, it was just it was a
little bit of an easy buttonmaybe.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
Yeah, was it a pretty quick turnaround from the point
of experimenting and tryingthat to the point of like, oh,
this is what I'm gonna do longterm, or yeah, yeah, it really
was um, especially once we movedand I got it and and began more
of the client facing stuff, uh,at merrill.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
And then you know, certainly once um, you know,
once we I went back to schwaband was in the office in
alexandria, so that clientinteraction piece, the face, the
face to face, was kind of thefinal hook, if you will.
So yeah, at that point I was, Iwas in.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Like this is fun.
I get to help people and servethem somewhere in that space of
it.
And they do say that if you canfind something where you feel
like you're serving people,there's a satisfaction that
comes into it.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
And sometimes.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I have to remind myself that when I'm caught in
the weeds of all the tasks thatI'm actually serving people
somewhere in there, sorry.
So you moved back toIndianapolis and you started
(10:49):
working for someone here, butthen you started your own kind
of thing.
Talk to me about that, Likewhat made you say let's start my
own go from a boutique to causeyou went from a boutique to.
I'm going to do my own littlething for a bit, Right?
Speaker 4 (11:04):
With a stop in between, and that's another
piece of the story.
So my family I come from afamily of business owners, and
so my family owned a localconstruction company here and my
dad was an owner, and so heapproached me.
(11:24):
This was when I was with theboutique firm.
He approached me at one thiswas after when I was with the
boutique firm and the boutiquefirm I was with was fantastic.
I had no, no issues there.
But my dad approached me andhe's like look, I want to retire
at some point.
We need somebody.
Would you be interested instepping in and then ultimately
buy me out?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
That's a big jump construction company, yeah Well
and I grew up in it so it wasfamiliar.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
And you know I was in a family business and you know
they'd been successful and Iknew it Again.
I grew up in it, and so I kindof wrestled with that for a
while and ultimately I did go.
But then, you know, it justwasn't going to be a good fit.
I mean my help kind of.
You know, my dad got exited andI just realized that that
(12:12):
wasn't where I was going to needto spend the rest of my life.
So then that's when I, ratherthan go back to the boutique
firm the other firm I was withat that point, I just hung up my
shingle.
I'd had, you know, some clientsthat I'd continued to work with
and, you know, helping on theside, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Um, and then that really took off, um you know, is
it scary for you to be like allright, I'm going to put this
out here and do it myself.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
It was and, and you know, honestly, I felt, um, it
was kind of hard to do itbecause it was sort of, you know
, because the venture with mydad didn't pan out the way I'd
originally planned, and again,it was a great experience.
I mean, I got to spend a lotmore time with him and you know,
I have no regrets about it atall, but it wasn't scary.
(13:01):
I mean, my wife was working andyou know, from unlike a lot, of
, lot of people, a lot of I knowa lot of small business owners
who you know they really put itout there.
They're really putting thingson the line to start a business.
There's a lot of risk involvedand from that standpoint, I
wasn't, you know, I wasn't, Ididn't have that kind of fear or
anything.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Because your other half kind of taking care of
family.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Sure.
So I wasn't worrying aboutwhether we were going to get to
eat because it was a businessventure.
So, yeah, I mean somedisappointment, but I was kind
of coming back home so to speakin terms of going back to what
I'd been doing and what I knew Ireally enjoyed and I and I took
from the experience with youknow, the company that my dad's
company is just, you know my, mywife put it best you know that
(13:56):
that's.
You know, some time that yougot extra time, you got to spend
and work with your dad and soum and and help him and so um so
yeah so it uh, it wasn't scaryjumping back in it, but it was.
It was a little daunting.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
I mean, our industry is very highly regulated, so it
was you know from that, you knowall of the rules and all well,
just yeah and just dotting allthe i's you know compliance.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Uh, you know dotting all the I's, yeah, compliance.
You know dotting all the I's,crossing all the T's, and so it
was a little daunting from thatperspective, but other than that
, I mean I was at ease with it.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah.
And so then the recruiter came,talked to you and you were like
I have my own gig, I'm enjoyingmy own gig, I I don't want to
see where I'm going.
And you liked the people atdeerfield, uh, that's who you
went to next right, I got thatpart of the story.
Um, was there any part of you insaying, okay, I'm gonna join
deerfield?
(14:56):
That was like oh, I didn't makethis work on my own and
disappointment.
Or were you like, no, no, I'mreally.
This is better to do it withpeople than to try to do it on
my own.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
No, I don't think there was I.
There wasn't disappointment inthat regard.
What I really saw wasopportunity to you know, kind of
get help with the stuff that Idid, the compliance and all of
the regulatory stuff and theadministration administrative
stuff.
I thought, okay, I can still do,I can bring my clients, I can
(15:28):
do the things I want to do.
And you know I clearly hit itoff with the folks at Deerfield
and so, you know, it just madesense, you know, and I was
surprised actually I didn'tagain, I wasn't looking to move
um and uh, but you know, themeetings I had went so well and
(15:54):
it all just seemed to kind offall into place like it just
made sense.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
So um, they made you an offer you couldn't refuse,
kind of yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
And you know, one of the things that initially things
have changed a little bit, butinitially that I lost was some
flexibility, because I workedfrom home.
We have four kids so I was, youknow, around more and much more
involved in caring for them,which was cool.
But you know, it sort of havefunny how things work out,
(16:26):
because when Deerfield camecalling they were all kind of
fully in school, you know, alittle older, doing their thing
and and so the timing, uh,really ended up being pretty
good for me to to make the move,so, um, so yeah, so I did, yeah
, and sometimes I, we, I don'tknow, maybe it's just me
(16:47):
sometimes stress out about, ah,like this isn't coming together.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
But then when you look back on things you're like,
okay, that kind of was perfecttiming for my life.
And sometimes it's not alwaysabout orchestrating but just
keeping yourself open to theopportunities that come, whether
it's like all right, I'm opento joining Charles Schwab and
learning something.
Do I really like this too?
I'm open to hanging out with mydad.
(17:10):
I'm sure you brought some ofthe knowledge, even though it
was a family business and youwatched it.
Being in the middle of itprobably taught you a number of
things that you brought intorunning your own business and
then even today of like justbusiness kind of knowledge.
So each one of thoseopportunities kind of I don't
(17:33):
know it, just it it.
Sometimes we try to orchestratethings and if we just step into
the opportunities that are here.
In the end you look back andyou're like that kind of worked
out nicely and that versuspanicking.
You know what's our kind offuture side of things yeah, I
mean deer fields.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Uh, we're a small business, I mean we're 14
employees so you know thatexperience and and uh uh with my
dad's business there's, therewas plenty that I took from that
and again, having grown up init, it felt comfortable coming
(18:11):
into.
And the previous firm I workedfor too was also small.
So small business had alwaysbeen part of my life.
Frankly, with the exception ofthe Schwab and Merrill
opportunities, you know, it'sbeen all small business stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
How was the moving around?
Did that like impact, or wasthat just early enough in your
career that it didn't reallyimpact a whole lot of where you
are?
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Yeah, it was early enough really.
I mean, in some ways I think itwas helpful.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Talking to network.
You have to meet new people allthe time.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Yeah, a little bit and just really different
experiences in different areas.
It turned out different areasof the country, different
cultures literally.
I mean Biloxi, mississippi is alot different than Washington
DC.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, yeah, very true .
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Or you know Washington DC area.
So from that standpoint it wasreally, it was neat.
You know, we have very fondmemories of our time.
Well, speaking for myself, Ihave very fond memories from a
work experience those times inmy life.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
It's interesting following your wife as well.
I've done that following yourwife's career and giving up
everything, and then moving downto Biloxi and then to Virginia.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Yeah, which is a unique thing for my family.
Which is a unique thing for myfamily.
You know, I was uh, I have apretty big family on you know
aunts, uncles, cousins and grewup in Fort Wayne and a lot of us
were there and, and you know,some of us ventured down to, to
Indy, obviously, and, um, but uh, going away.
(20:00):
I was like the first cousin toreally go away and I'm sure
there was a lot of like my gosh,what is he doing?
What is this woman?
Where is this woman taking him?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And then following her career over, yours was, I'm
sure, something else that youhad to battle, not maybe
personally, but people, familyand saying Was that hard for
your?
Speaker 4 (20:21):
family that you deferred to her.
Well, I think it was hard, forI mean, I'm sure it was.
I know it was hard for my momin particular, for us to, for me
to go away.
I have a younger brother whowas home at the time and you
know he ended up moving away tooultimately.
But yeah, I think it was hardand so, um, but you know it, we
(20:45):
were fortunate that we were ableto get back.
Frequently they would come downand visit, I mean, you know,
and, and the interesting thingis, we never really envisioned
moving back to indianapolis, andthen we had kids and that sort
of changed the dynamic and so,uh, but no, it, it, uh, I I'm a
big fan of my wife.
I was happy to, to, to followher.
She's a, she's a, she's aphysician.
(21:06):
She was in the medical corps inthe air force and has since
gone on to do other great things, and so I was.
I was happy to support her andand and follow her and, and you
know, at the same time I got tohave my own little adventure.
I'd never lived outside ofIndiana prior to then, and so
(21:27):
got to go to the Gulf Coast ofMississippi and live there for a
while which was an interestingchange from Indianapolis and
then got to go to the otherextreme and live in Washington
DC for a time, and so it wasagain very fond memories and I
don't regret any of it.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
So you said there was an interesting story with
meeting this wife of yours.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Have I told you this before.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I don't know, I don't think you have.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
So I graduated.
Like I said, I was just takingsome graduate courses just
trying to again figure out whatI was going to do.
Next step it wasn't going to benuclear medicine.
Figure out what I was going todo next step, it wasn't going to
be nuclear medicine.
And there was a posting for ajob on a board outside one of
the classes I was taking and itwas for an autopsy assistant
(22:16):
with the forensic pathologydepartment on campus or at the
medical center.
I was like, well, that's kindof interesting.
And I of course had all therequirements really were just
anatomy and physiology and thatyou wouldn't get sick during an
autopsy, and that was basicallythe litmus test for the
interview.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
I think I might have gotten sick for an autopsy, but
keep talking, yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
So I interviewed for the position and I don't know if
they still have the contract.
I don't know if they still havethe contract, but at the time
the forensic pathologydepartment at IU had the
(22:59):
contract with the Marion Countycoroner and actually for a
number of the coroners aroundthe state, so they would do all
the autopsies, anything that wassuspicious, including all the
bad stuff, including all the badstuff, and so so yeah, so I
that was my job as an autopsyassistant, or the job of the
autopsy assistant was to do theevisceration of the body, taking
out the organs and you know,noting things and whatnot in,
you know, along with the, withthe pathologist who's performing
(23:22):
autopsy, and got to learn howto use an x-ray machine to look
for bullets and other things,and so but, anyway, I think four
of us interviewed for theposition and I was the only one
that didn't get sick, and so Igot the position.
I worked there for a while.
My wife was in her fourth yearmedical school and did a
(23:45):
rotation in forensic pathology.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
And so we met as over a dead body, as she likes to
say.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
So love blossomed in the morgue.
That's great.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
So that's that'd be awesome.
Like, you're like going to aparty and you're like how'd you
guys meet over Over a dead bodyand then just walk away and just
let that be the thing, yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
It's a little unique.
It wasn't at a bar, it wasn'tat church or the grocery store
we met in the morgue.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
That's the epitome of it can happen anywhere.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yes absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Opportunities come everywhere from that side.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
And that was a really neat experience in that
position Obviously not somethingI was going to spend my life
doing, but it allowed me to earnsome money and it was unique
and I did have an interest inthat too, but not from a career
standpoint necessarily, but notfrom a career standpoint
(24:46):
necessarily.
And so, yeah, it ended up beingobviously a really good
experience, because that's whereI met my wife and you rave
about her every time.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I see you.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
You say awesome things about her.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I'm a fan, that's good.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
How long have you been married?
What is it 40?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
years.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Do I look that old?
No, you don't Not at all.
26 years.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
No, Do I look that old?
No, you don't Not at all.
26 years.
Yeah, it's like your kids areold enough so well, that's fun.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
So what do you feel like in all of this journey?
Have been the hardest part ofit.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Hmm, yeah, and that's a tough one because I mean,
I'll be honest, I feel like in alot of ways, I've lived a
pretty charmed life.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I think Is that weird , knowing that, okay, I've kind
of had a really good life andthere's been other people around
me who've had harder lives, andis there been any
reconciliation with that pieceof?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
thing?
No, because it's not like Ihaven't worked hard but, you
know the hard work is.
I've never had what I felt likeare significant setbacks.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I guess that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Maybe that's a different way to put it, but the
hardest thing was probably whenI became an owner at Deerfield.
I had to put on a different hat, you know, and you're you guys
are obviously familiar, um, sothat's probably been the most
more challenging thing and andkind of looking at myself and as
an owner, um, and you kind ofhave to I felt like I really had
(26:41):
to.
I've had to take a look atmyself and really come to grips
with what I'm, what I am good atand what I'm not good at,
Because you know, with somethings that I'm, you know what
about me allows me to be a goodowner and what about me makes me
, you know, gives me opportunityto be a better owner, and so so
(27:02):
what is it that makes you agood and or better owner?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
I'm getting deep, sorry, no, no, no, it's fine.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
And it'll be interesting if anybody from the
office when they listen to this,if they agree with me.
I'm not.
I'd say I'm a pretty easy guyto work with.
(27:35):
I think, from a managementperspective, where I struggle
the most probably is just peoplemanagement, because obviously I
have a supervisory role so Itend to be somebody who's like
I'll just do it.
So the delegation piece istough, which obviously as a
manager you really have to beable to do that well.
(27:56):
Another shout out to my wife.
I think she's excellent at that.
It's a skill I wish I couldtake from her.
But I'd say that's probably mybiggest.
That's been my biggest.
My biggest challenge is justreally trying to step into that
more and become a better um.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Is the delegation a like?
I can do it faster.
You don't have patients fortraining.
Uh, is it um?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Quality.
Uh huh Quality.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Quality of like.
Hey, I like.
What is it that pauses you ondelegating?
Speaker 4 (28:30):
but quality of like, hey, I like.
What is it that pauses you ondelegating?
It's usually because I can doit and move on to the other
things I need to do.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
You know, instead of you know, recognizing the value
of training and the time thatcomes into it Right.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I need to hand this off and give someone else an
opportunity to do it and justknow that you know it's going to
be okay, right, and that it'sreally the best way to go
forward.
Because, I mean, the reality is, if you don't, if I don't
delegate some things, then otherthings will suffer.
(29:06):
If I don't delegate some things, then other things will suffer.
Or I'm not done at 6 o'clockand then it's 8 o'clock because
I've taken this on when I shouldhave passed it on to someone
else, and now everything elsejust bleeds into everything else
.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
I think that's a common struggle too for people
that are top performers in, youknow, kind of very solo roles,
like as an advisor.
you know, you're a team of one.
You know, outside of theadministrative piece of things
or whatever it might be, you'rehaving one-on-one conversations.
You're kind of responsible foryou know developing the game
(29:42):
plan in a very kind of solo wayto so to incorporate other
people and you know start todelegate those things when you
have been performing at such ahigh level is you know to kind
of uh, go from an A plus studentto you know, whatever the
(30:02):
average of everyone that you'redelegating to is and that can be
a tough, you know, kind of.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Do you struggle figuring out how to get what's
in your brain out to otherpeople?
A little bit, yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
And it's not.
It's never been a confidenceissue in, in our people.
We've been blessed withfantastic people.
It's it's strictly time.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah, that's what I feel a lot I'm like okay, I
brought someone in and I justdon't have the bandwidth and I
apologize, usually all over theplace when I'm doing it.
I'm like okay, I know I need toshow you how to do this, I'll
show you this and I have to goover to this.
It's pure bandwidth of time thattraining someone takes, but you
value them and you want to nothave them sit there and twiddle
(30:48):
their thumbs and be bored,because you want them inspired
and bringing stuff to the table,um, but it's a lot of work and
finding the balance, but there'salso a patience and a grace to
yourself in the midst of it too,of like, well, yeah, I can I
only can do this today, but I'llget the rest of it over to you.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
But I, yes, it is very difficult figuring out how
to add that to the plethora ofthings you have to do in the
midst of it, and so I think thesort of I don't want to say a
breakthrough moment or a momentof clarity was when I realized
(31:30):
that that is a big hole in myrepertoire, like I kind of suck
at that, and once I sort ofrecognized it and embraced it,
then it actually made it easierfor me to tackle it rather than
just denying it and and say, eh,you know it's, it's, it's not a
problem, you know, just youknow.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
That is interesting.
Like we, we don't.
I did that with a doctor'sappointment.
Like I've gone to a functionalmedicine person cause I get two
o'clock.
I'm like dead tired and I'msitting there meeting with her
and she's like, yeah, do youtake vitamins?
And I'm like, no, I don't takevitamins, I hate swallowing
pills.
She's like, well, maybe youshould start that, that might
(32:16):
help.
And there's a bunch of otherstuff that goes into this.
But it was this moment of like.
I wasn't willing to look andsee what the problem is and like
and just face that true likething and that's not even
business, that's side things.
But it's so very true that whenyou're able to just acknowledge
, okay, this is something I'mnot very good at or it's a weak
point, that point in time youcan address it, versus if you're
(32:39):
just like, no, I don't havethis problem, like sort of thing
, you just it just continues tobe a problem.
So the kind of the humbleness Ithink it takes to be a business
owner and switch into that hattakes us.
You have to drop your ego to bea good one.
I feel like it.
(32:59):
And it's hard to drop your egoand just be like all right, this
is what I'm not good at.
This is what I need you to be.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Practice that radical self-awareness.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yeah, and just face the things that swallow your
vitamin pill sort of.
Thing.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
Do you feel like there are certain tips or
tactics that once you did say,okay, this is something that I
need to put some active workinto, or practice into being a
more effective delegator orleader, or whatever the term may
be?
Is there content that you'veabsorbed, or people that you've
(33:37):
talked to, or certain thingsthat you've worked through that
you feel have been particularlyhelpful or transformative for
you in that space, or is it justconsistency and practice?
Speaker 4 (33:51):
yeah, I think consistency, um, I I try I read
a lot and so, uh, in my, myreading regimen, if you will, I,
I I always try to have like twoor three books going and one of
those books is some kind of Itry to make it some kind of
(34:12):
self-help or self-improvementtype book, and so that's kind of
my weird way of keeping thatfront and center.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
If you will.
What's your current?
Speaker 4 (34:24):
book.
Well, I'm kind of between books.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Which one did you just finish?
Speaker 4 (34:33):
I just finished the.
What was it called?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
I hate when people put me on the spot.
Yeah, people put me on the spot.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
I'm reading a book called I Heard you Paint Houses,
which is about Frank Sheeranand the Jimmy Hoffa thing.
Interesting.
What was the name of the book?
Speaker 3 (34:54):
It was the 5 am Club, oh so this is the group that's
like wake up at 5, get all thisstuff done before like 11 am it
was kind of a weird book it wasit, you know it was yeah yeah,
yeah, so, um, and then there's aI pretend I can wake up at 5 am
(35:15):
and I yeah, never do, but sorry, I'm gonna spy.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
I always say I'm an aspiring morning person.
But um, yeah, so the 5 am Club.
You know books like SevenHabits or Atomic Habits.
I really enjoyed that one.
Just things like that.
Just keep it like.
(35:38):
I'm always aware, but you know,when you're reading things
consistently that remind you,for me that's the best way to
kind of keep driving that intomy brain yeah, I think the more
frameworks that you have and themore language you have to kind
of, you know, look at it fromdifferent perspectives and that
kind of stuff.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
That's a great way to kind of reveal your own short
sides and you know, findactionable steps to to kind of
move away from them.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
So when you moved into being a business like a
partner, how did your stresslevel change with that?
I mean I'm assuming theexpectations changed.
Did that change your delight atall in the work that you're
doing, Did it?
(36:30):
Did you feel a heaviness thatcame on as you went to that, or
was it an excitement, Like kindof what was the feeling that you
went through?
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Well, I was flattered , first, First and foremost,
that my now partners, you know,had the confidence to, you know,
offer me an opportunity tobecome an owner.
So I was, and didn't really seethat, coming to be honest, not
(36:59):
for any particular reason, justhadn't really considered it.
And so I was flattered thatthey felt that they had the
confidence in me to partner withthem.
And then, I don't know, itwasn't, I didn't feel a
heaviness, I was really excited.
It was a different hat, as Isaid earlier, and so I was just
(37:23):
excited at the challenge and theopportunities.
And we'd gone through a coupleof transitions internally.
You know, we had a someoneleave and we've got an office in
Chicago, so the person thatleft was in Chicago, and so we
were, you know, battling notbattling that, but just, you
(37:43):
know, making sure that we hadcontinuity and all that.
So, and then when I, you know,when I came on board, the owner
or the founder was exiting.
So that was a process too, andso there had always been these
things going on.
And then, leading up to, youknow, my becoming a partner,
we'd sort of tackled all thosethings and we were, I felt like
(38:06):
we as a firm, and then, for mepersonally, we're in a brand new
spot.
All this other stuff was behindus and it just felt like there
was this great opportunity infront of me personally,
obviously, and for us as a firm.
So, yeah, it's been fantastic.
(38:26):
So yeah, it's been fantastic.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
I've really enjoyed the new challenges and, of
course, love the people I workwith and have enjoyed.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
It makes a difference when you have the right people
you work with and it's fun toyou know.
The conversations are obviouslya little different now than
when I was not an owner A wholedifferent set of meetings that
I'm part of now, when I was notan owner, a whole different set
of meetings that I'm part of now.
But yeah, I would say it'sexcitement was sort of the
prevailing feeling once ithappened.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Do you find that?
Speaker 4 (39:01):
you have.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
how is the balance in your life?
I'm trying to figure out how tophrase that question, Like do
you feel like all of a sudden,now you're a partner and you're
working a ton more as a partner,or are you like?
No, this journey and how I'vegone through it, has I've still
been able to kind of balance.
And how do you fill your cupeven outside of work side of
things?
Speaker 4 (39:27):
No, I don't feel like I've.
I don't feel like the balance.
I feel like I've been able tomaintain balance.
Um, you know, we've done somehiring and some things to uh
cause, cause the partner piecekind of coincided with a, a um
sort of a renewed focus ongrowth and we've experienced
growth and so that'snecessitated some hiring and so,
(39:49):
you know, I've been able tokind of maintain the balance
still work, still work a lot.
I think that you know the thebeauty of of the way we work, or
you know how we work, is we cankind of do it anywhere, right,
Obviously, we had a lot of a lotof client facing stuff, but
COVID really changed things alot for us because we always had
(40:11):
the capability of doing remotework and Teams meetings or Zoom
calls, and that sort of COVIDforced us to do it, forced
clients to embrace it too, andthen a lot of clients figured
out, hey, I really like this.
Yeah, so Do you really like it.
(40:33):
The remote use I do.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
I do, I love it, I mean it allows.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
You know, and in my which you know this my wife
retired recently, uh-huh.
So which sort of retired?
She retired from her previousjob, she'll she can't sit still,
no, she can't sit still.
So she's going to do someconsulting stuff, but certainly
wait, significantly dialed backfrom what she was doing.
But, you know, and then all ofour kids are now in college or
(41:01):
beyond, and so we have, you know, we're empty nesters, we have
the opportunity to travel alittle bit more, and so, um,
yeah, we're going to do that andso, but I can do that and still
work and feel connected, youknow, get restored and
rejuvenated, while also stayingconnected and being very
productive, and so I'm reallythankful for that.
(41:23):
That's been a blessing, that'sbeen a blessing, and so, yeah, I
think that's allowed me to.
Really that flexibility hasreally been good for me to
maintain that balance.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
But still be engaged.
Where's your burning desire togo and visit?
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Oh, yeah, well, there are a number of places I'd
really like to go right now.
This will speak to you.
I'm really high on my list isthe, the, the british isles.
I'd really love to go see.
Uh, I've never been to englandor would love to go to england,
scotland, ireland, wales, um, uh, I'd love to see australia a
(42:03):
little, a little unnerved by allthe tiktok videos and the
animals that are in australia,but yeah, you know um, they
supersized all the, all the bugsand, oh my gosh, it's like, uh,
it's like a jurassic park.
Yeah, it really is um, and thenuh, bora bora has always been,
or the maldives has always been,very appealing, it's just uh
(42:25):
you know, you know, the hutsover the water which seem to be
creeping into the Caribbean alot too.
It's not as unique as it.
That concept is not as uniqueas it used to be.
But yeah, those are.
We've begun talking about maybegoing to Italy.
We have some friends that justwent to Italy and, of course,
loved it.
So, yeah, those are kind of topof the list for now.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
But Very cool.
Speaker 4 (42:52):
We've done some, some , some hopping around in the
States, you know, kind of wecall them workations where we we
just especially this time ofyear.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Go somewhere warm yeah, work remote yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
We went to Phoenix, went out to Palm Springs, which
I kind of fell in love with PalmSprings, I love it out there
and literally worked.
I mean I tell the story thefirst time we did it my wife was
still working in her previousposition.
We went out there and we wouldget up.
Of course it's three hoursdifference.
We would get up at like 4 am.
We stayed on indiana time.
(43:28):
We get up at 4 am and work.
Of course it was dark out there,but we'd work until one or two
and then we'd go hiking and youknow, do the things out in uh in
in palm springs, and the resortwe stayed at had a nice hot tub
and pool, so we'd do somephysical activity, come back,
hit the hot tub and then we werein bed by like eight o'clock
(43:50):
but it was yeah, and you know itwas.
It was six degrees back here andit was 70 out there.
So yeah, we still got to, youknow, unplug and you know kind
of get some restorative time outthere and still be productive
and not feel completelydisconnected, the complete
disconnect thing.
I don't know if I could do thatSometimes it's hard Not having
(44:12):
access.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Yeah, because you're like, okay, come back to a giant
pile of stuff, and so sometimesit's easier to maintain a few
little pieces and find thatbalance of things while you're
doing it.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Yeah, my wife always said when we would go on
vacation she would, if she itactually helped her relax, if
she could just check things alittle bit, you know not spend
hours and hours, but just, youknow 30 minutes to run through
email, just to make sure thatyou know the house isn't on fire
.
Back, you know, back home.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Actually allowed her to relax more, and that's always
resonated with me.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
It's kind of interesting how that works.
So what do you feel like in allof your journey was the most
helpful thing that you learnedthat positioned you and maybe
it's not a most helpful, butwhat is it about your journey
that positioned you?
Well, to be like, I'm a partnerand now I'm kind of running,
not running but like I'm part ofthat running Um.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
I think it's funny.
It's funny you ask that Causewe were my wife and I were both
talking to our son about thisyou always raise your hand, like
if an opportunity comes up,always raise your hand.
You know um and and accept thechallenge right, don't, don't
(45:32):
shy away from new opportunities.
Always be willing to kind ofput yourself out there and and
do something different.
You know, I wouldn't put it onquite the same level, but even
you know me moving to Biloxi,that was kind of put myself out
there.
It was a change, you know, andthe interesting thing is my I
was kind of putting myself outthere.
It was a change, you know.
And the interesting thing is mywife and I didn't just kind of
(45:52):
an aside, we didn't.
We met in February of 2007 andwe were married by April of 2008
.
So we got married, we'd knowneach other for, you know, 14
months and then moved to acompletely different city
together.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Did you get married that fast?
Because she was in the military.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
No, okay, no, because we actually were.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
You just really liked each other.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Well, yeah, and she had actually.
So she finished her fourth yearin May of 2007 and moved to
Biloxi.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
So we did the long distancing for a couple months,
yeah, for a while, and I do hearthat from you guys as you're
talking through your journey oflike you, just you stepped into
every opportunity that seemed topresent itself and just been
like okay, let's just do thisand not fretting and just going
okay, let's just do this and notfretting and just going, all
(46:49):
right, here's an opportunity,I'm going to try it and see
where it leads.
And that's kind of you know,you're always raise your hand,
always.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
And don't look back too.
I mean I've always been, Idon't know for better or worse,
been able to just kind of moveon right.
Like, done with that, moving on, and you know know, take what
what I can from the previousexperience but learn, don't beat
yourself up right
Speaker 5 (47:11):
just move forward, yeah where do you think that
mentality comes from?
Is that a parenting thing orsomething innate to your dna, or
something you learned along theroad.
Speaker 4 (47:24):
I don't know, I mean it.
It's a good question that notperseverating on the bad stuff,
(47:52):
if there's any bad stuff behindyou just moving on, because if
you think about it, obviously itcan drag you down.
So maybe that's it, I don'tknow.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Good question, I don't like to sit in my emotions
, so I don't want to sit thereand reflect on all of the things
that might be hard.
I'm like, I'm done, move onLike I got to find a different
emotion that's easier to handle.
I don't know if that's healthyor not, but I definitely think
you know, I know that that'spart of me.
So well, at the end of thesethings I like to do a little.
(48:20):
We call them lightning round.
That turns into long round.
I don't know, the short longround, somehow the short long
round somehow or another, whereI just ask random questions and
just kind of see what youranswers are.
So, all right.
So my first one is you're at anetworking event.
What drink are you drinking?
Speaker 4 (48:42):
Oh, what time of day.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
I don't know you.
You, that's part of thequestion, like me, like in the
morning it's a, a Bloody Mary,and then in the evening you know
whatever.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
I'll assume it's an after hours thing, probably a
bourbon neat.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
Okay, my other half does old fashions all the time.
Speaker 4 (49:02):
I like an old fashion too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Yeah, I'm a wino, although my doctors have told me
that's probably why I'm notsleeping very well at night.
So trying um little.
Things that happen as you getolder, uh, all right.
Favorite person to followpodcast instagram book tiktok
about australia uh animals ofaustralia.
Speaker 4 (49:23):
I'm not strange to say on a podcast, I don't listen
to a ton of podcasts.
I I will say I, I don't know,I'm probably going to ruffle
some feathers.
I like Joe Rogan, because ofthe variety of people that he
has on, not necessarily, youknow, be just being a political.
He has some really neat peopleand I think, from a diverse, a
(49:50):
diversity of guests standpoint.
I've found his podcast to beinteresting.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
You know, again, setting any controversial
comments aside, you don't haveto agree with them to find him
interesting.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (50:02):
I appreciate his curiosity.
I think, he's genuinely curioustoo, which leads to having lots
of other you know sort ofatypical guests.
It's not the same, you know.
You watch Fox news you get thesame kind of guests.
You watch MSNBC you get thesame kind of people you know his
.
I feel like he's he's done agood job of mixing it up.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
you know again, any other controversies aside, Are
there books that you say youread a lot of books?
Is there a particular artistthat you artist?
Author.
Author.
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (50:33):
It could be artists too, I guess.
No, I like the science fictiongenre.
I'm a big fan of science fiction, always have been, so I read a
lot of science fiction books.
I like Ken Follett.
I was hooked by his first.
(50:53):
The two books of his that Ifirst read were Pillars of the
Earth, and I forget the name ofthe other one, but it was a
sequel to that.
Fantastic and different notscience fiction, historical
fiction.
And different not sciencefiction, historical fiction.
And then there's a centurytrilogy which he's I don't know
how old it is at this point, butI just started the first book
(51:20):
of that, falling Giants.
So no, there's not.
I would say if there's anoverarching thing, it would be
science fiction.
I really do enjoy sciencefiction, but not a particular
author.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
I read a lot of Stephen King growing up, Just
books like therapy a little bit.
I don't know therapy for mesometimes.
Speaker 4 (51:44):
Yeah, I mean it's sort of an escape.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
Not that I'm looking to escape, but it's just
interesting to enter differentworlds.
Your mind just needs to releaseto something different and then
, when it can, it can come backto things creatively, and so
that's not necessarily escape.
I think that's healthy.
Well, it also helps me get tosleep.
Speaker 4 (52:00):
To be honest, it actually helps me remove myself
from the work stuff, and so Ican kind of quiet my mind to
actually go to bed.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Yeah, no, that's a.
We've talked about sleep manytimes and stuff, so how late is
fashionably late.
Speaker 4 (52:18):
Um well, I would say, depending on the event, but
five minutes I'm not a big fanof.
You're never late, I've never.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
I'm the one who's late.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
When we connect for things you're always there
before me it's not bad.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
Five minutes, maybe ten, I've had people say one
minute past is.
You know you are five minutesearly or you are late, sort of
thing.
You have to give A little grace.
Speaker 4 (52:46):
I was going to the ophthalmologist the other day
and got behind a an accidentthat had just happened on 31,
and there's nowhere to go.
And like that's not my fault,it's not anyone's fault.
Speaker 5 (52:58):
I think everyone that's answered that way has had
some kind of militaryinvolvement.
Speaker 3 (53:03):
Where they're like five minutes earlier.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
That is very true, that'll change your whole
attitude around those things.
Speaker 4 (53:13):
On that point, my watch is always set to military
time.
And the clock in my car is setto military time.
I got used to it, so somethings stick.
Speaker 3 (53:26):
I turned mine to military time when I was in
London because that's howeverything is there and I
couldn't.
I could never do the math in mybrain fast enough, so I was
like I'm just going to put it onthat and just start operating
that way.
What's your biggest pet peeve?
Speaker 4 (53:43):
Jesse's hard questions.
Yeah, this will sound kind ofweird Pillows on the floor, like
our kids like if they knock apillow off and it's on the floor
and they don't like I don't,there's something about that.
Speaker 3 (54:04):
Like.
Speaker 4 (54:04):
I put my head on that .
Speaker 5 (54:07):
Somehow I knew that was going to be the next thing
out of your mouth Like I put myhead on that.
Speaker 4 (54:12):
I don't want it on the floor.
I mean, you know, I think youknow we keep the house pretty
clean.
But come on, I don't know,that's, that's a, probably a
weird one.
But we have two.
First thing that comes to mind.
Speaker 5 (54:22):
We have two dogs that love to just like tackle our
pillows when we're not usingthem and I have the same it's
like come on, man, I'm gonnasleep there.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
You got your slumbery all laws all over.
Speaker 5 (54:34):
Yeah, don't be sitting on it and licking it and
whatever else.
Speaker 3 (54:40):
What You're going to hate me for this one?
What's your personal motto?
Always raise your hand.
Speaker 4 (54:55):
I don't know, just go with it, don't sweat it.
Yeah, I can see that about you.
Roll with it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
Just flex, kind of chill, like we're just going to
flow, like the situation is notgoing to rile my feathers up,
which yeah.
Yeah, and that's not to saythings aren't urgent, but I can
totally see that about you.
Yeah, and that's not to saythings aren't urgent, but I can
totally see that about you.
Yeah, I've never, at least formyself, exuding urgency or
(55:23):
feeling urgent and the sometimeswhich you know, maybe it's just
an unfortunate or unfortunatebyproduct, but that's, it's not
apathy, it's just, you know,control what I can, I control
what I can control yeah, no, Ifound that I was working with
(55:48):
the software people and I wasfrustrated because they're
taking forever to do some stuffand I'm like, okay, it's not
worth getting all bent out ofshape, and sometimes you just go
all right, here's the situationwe're in, we're just going to
flow with it and the world's notgoing to fall apart.
Yes, and so, yeah, I get them.
Speaker 4 (56:04):
The sun will rise tomorrow, right.
Speaker 3 (56:08):
What color do you think of when you think of a
business owner?
Speaker 4 (56:15):
Let me get to the psychology navy blue like the
business.
Speaker 3 (56:17):
This is so crazy.
Speaker 4 (56:18):
It is so crazy yeah sorry, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (56:20):
I've asked this question to a lot of people and
they walk in and they give me ananswer and they're wearing that
color and so no one said navyblue yet.
But you are, in essence, kindof wearing that Navy-ish,
navy-ish a bluish type.
Yeah, it's almost gray, I guess.
But yeah.
Navy blue.
Speaker 4 (56:36):
Yeah, I don't know, I think of business.
I still think of and this iskind of old school I just think
of like a, like a wall streetbanker and a Navy blue suit with
a red tie you know, white shirtand you're, so you probably
also have that Wall Street-ishstuff around you.
It's interesting how not WallStreet we are, though, like you
(56:58):
know, wall Street is I'm notpicking on what you said, but it
is.
You know.
I still have had people say, oh, so you're a broker Like I'm
not a what?
No?
We don't sell anything.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
Right.
Speaker 4 (57:12):
I don't sell anything , right?
I don't know.
Some things die hard.
Speaker 3 (57:17):
Well, people come to me and they think I can help
them do their financial planning.
I'm like no, I don't.
That's a whole different worldof math and thought pattern and
strategy.
And, yeah, I can give you myopinion, but it's not the right
opinion all the time.
So talk to someone who isthinking like that Um, but
(57:38):
what's your superpower?
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Picking up pillows.
Speaker 3 (57:44):
Picking up pillows, I'm really good at picking up
pillows.
Speaker 4 (57:47):
Really good at picking up pillows.
Um, I don't know pillows, Idon't know.
I'm just.
I don't say this.
This isn't like self-loathing.
Sometimes I think, when you askquestions like that, I'm just
not a very interesting guy LikeI don't have a super path.
Speaker 3 (58:07):
But I mean you can probably go back to your
personal motto.
Like you're not easily riled,yeah, I would say that.
Speaker 4 (58:12):
that's that.
That's probably.
I was going to go to that, butI was trying to think of
something pithy for you.
Speaker 3 (58:17):
No, you don't have to .
Speaker 4 (58:19):
But yeah, I think, yeah, my ability to just kind of
move on, you know I don't dwell, I just, yeah, I try to, I
don't stew.
Speaker 5 (58:34):
So maybe that's a superpower, there's a
fearlessness or a courage tothat as well, just in everything
that you've said today of justlike, whatever the next
opportunity is, you know it's,yeah, it's a brave Like unique
to, to be able to just seizethat at every you know turn and
(58:55):
not be second guessing yourselfor, uh, you know,
overcomplicating.
Speaker 4 (59:03):
It could be perceived as denial too.
Speaker 3 (59:07):
Avoidance, we're going to go with a positive flip
.
End of it, yeah.
I like that.
Um so last two questions.
Speaker 4 (59:20):
What do you define as success?
Well, I would define my success.
I think it's very subjectiveand obviously it's happiness and
whatever makes you happy.
For me personally, it's myfamily, it's my friends and, I
think, the relationships that'sto me, that's what makes me
(59:46):
successful in my life.
It may not be successful toother people.
It may not be successful toother people, but I think that's
the relationships I have withmy kids and my wife, my family,
(01:00:07):
my friends, and I'm a small boatguy, as my friend Heidi coined
the term.
You know we're all kind of likeboats, right?
My friend Heidi coined the term.
you know we're all kind of likeboats, right?
If you equated us to boats andthe number of people you like to
have in the boat, I'm a smallboat guy.
I'm probably a canoe.
My wife is more of a cruiseship right.
(01:00:27):
Like she likes lots of people.
So in my small boat I have verystrong relationships of which
I'm very appreciative and makesme happy and I think makes me
successful, yeah, so kind of acop out no, it's not, it's
actually very beautiful ofsuccess is cultivating deep
(01:00:49):
relationships in your life.
Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
And I see that in the work you do, because and I've
mentioned this to you and Imentioned it to people I refer
you to like you care about themand where they're going in a
much deeper fashion than likelet me just plan out your stuff,
like let's you want to sellyour business, like hey, let me
help you analyze the sale withyou.
(01:01:12):
Like let's talk through thatfear factor and kind of all of
those pieces, and so I, um, Ivalue, I, I value that in you
from a business perspective.
Um, I think it's very thatbeing your definition of success
emanates and how you canconnect with people and and do
things, so I can see that aboutyou.
Speaker 4 (01:01:33):
Yeah, I was actually going to say I think that's
carried through to my practiceis getting invested in clients
and not just the superficialstuff, like you said, just
really understanding who theyare, what makes them tick,
(01:01:55):
what's important to them.
You know, getting theopportunity to do that makes me
feel successful, you know,because you know it equips me to
be, you know, a better advisorand give them better advice, and
so I really enjoy that piece,that investment in who they are.
(01:02:21):
And we've been blessed atDeerfield with
multi-generational relationshipswe've had with you know.
We're now, you know, workingwith the grandkids of clients,
and so that personal aspect isvery important for us as a firm
and, of course, me personally.
And so, yeah, that's.
I think you know we're not thebiggest firm in town.
(01:02:43):
We're not, you know, by anymetric.
But I think we're all pretty,you know successful in that
regard Um just those deeprelationships.
Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
So then, on the flip side of it, that's not always a
direct opposite.
What is the um, what's thedefinition of failure for you?
Speaker 4 (01:03:10):
I think not trying is a failure.
I mean I think trying somethingand in a traditional sense
failing can be a win, right?
I mean again I mentioned wewere talking to our son about
this like raising your hand Imean the failure is not in not
(01:03:32):
succeeding at something, youknow, a particular task or
whatever.
To me and my wife shares thesame sentiment not trying is the
failure.
That doesn't mean you doeverything, but if you're
presented with something thatyou really want to do but you're
afraid of failing, then thatbecomes a failure, right, the
(01:03:57):
fact that you don't really tryit.
So to me, I never fault peoplefor trying something that they
really wanted to try, like theirheart was in it, or it's just
something they want to tackle,and then by any other
conventional measure they fail,measure they fail.
You know you did it right, likeyou tried, and that's.
(01:04:18):
There's a lot of success inthat, because even the failure
you know, we all know you learnprobably learn more from your
failures than your successes.
Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
Yep Very much All the time.
Speaker 4 (01:04:30):
Daily.
Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, thank you very much forjoining and telling us a little
bit about your journey, thanksfor having me.
Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
This is fun yeah, I, it's.
Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
One of my favorite things to do right now is just
to sit here and chit chat withpeople, but, um, we do like to
give an opportunity, if there'sanything you want to kind of
plug or tell people how to findyou or various different things.
How might they find you?
Uh?
Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
yeah, sure, I mean we're um uh, probably the
easiest way to learn more aboutus is our, our website it's just
deerfield fa for deerfield,Deerfield FA for Deerfield,
Financial Advisors, Deerfield FAdot com.
And yeah, I mean we're just ifpeople have stumbled across us
(01:05:28):
and didn't get the full skinnyon who we are.
We're a full service wealthmanagement firm.
We do I liken what we do tobeing personal CFOs.
So, as I told somebody theother day, if it has a dollar
sign in front of it, we can.
You know we work with people onit.
So we and we work, we kind ofwork as the quarterback of for
folks' financial team and it caninclude CPAs, state attorneys,
(01:05:52):
you know, insurance brokers,things like that.
So we really pride ourselves onworking collaboratively with
people, other professionalsagain, all working towards the
same goal of helping peopleachieve their near and long-term
goals.
So any interest, check us outon the website.
Should I throw the phone numberout there 317-469-2455, call
(01:06:18):
the office.
One thing I will say is when weget most of our new business
comes from referrals fromexisting clients.
But on the off chance that weget somebody that just happens
to call in or finds us, on theoff chance that we get somebody
that just happens to call in orfinds us on the website, we're
real intentional about kind ofvetting out who the potential
(01:06:42):
client is and who they mightwork best with.
There are six advisors now.
Six, seven advisors, sorry,we're all a little different,
right.
Um, six, seven advisors, sorry,um, we're all a little
different, right, like we all.
We all have, uh, we all do agreat job.
Uh, I will say, but we do.
You know, from a personalityperspective, we're all a little
bit different and, and you knowwe do a real good job of trying
(01:07:05):
to match folks with um, um, youknow the right, the right person
, the right personality, becausethat's obviously important.
We're heavily involved withclients.
I mean we, we touch clientsprobably more than you know most
other professionals, justbecause you know, throughout the
year it's, you know we're notseasonal or anything, and so you
(01:07:27):
know it's important that youmesh well with your, with your
advisor, and so we're veryintentional about, um, you know,
trying to make sure that, uh,you get with the right person.
Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Yeah, so it's very cool.
Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (01:07:41):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
Yeah, we're very grateful that you're on this.
Thank you, bye.
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