August 17, 2025 — UFO Explorer Nigel Watson - The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
M hm.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
You were in the Para Cast, the gold standard of
paranormal radio. And now here's Jene Steinberg.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
So having become the seventh the seventh step of Kevin
Bacon six seven six, you're the seventh right who me?

Speaker 4 (00:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Sure, the seventh degree of Kevin Bacon. And because you
were so you vanished last week, were you on a
secret mission or one?

Speaker 4 (00:57):
No, no, no, no, just uh, just tending to some
family business, that's all.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Oh that sort of thing. Okay, well you.

Speaker 4 (01:07):
Yeah, yeah, at this time. Yeah, yeah, just just required
a little bit of a little bit of traveling.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well, I hope that was fun.

Speaker 4 (01:18):
Oh yeah, well, I mean, you know exactly, family business,
so sure fun.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Well, okay, there's another story there. We won't get into it. Nigel.
Welcome to the Parack Cast and really having to explored
your backstory for a long long time. But how did
you get interested in chasing, as they say, the flying.

Speaker 5 (01:41):
Saucerss Okay, well, it was in the late sixties early seventies.
I got fascinated by space exploration and the moonlanding missions.
That led me to the local library and at first
I just got books on space or a strong me
and then I kind of drifted into getting books about UFOs.

(02:05):
There's only like two or three UFO books were a
bit old, really was one The Source of Speech by
George Wunt Williamson, and another one was The Intelligent Man's
Guide to Uphos. It was a massive choice, but George
Williamson one was more about contact see literature. That seemed

(02:27):
a bit fantastic to me, whereas the other books were
more related to just solid flying sources in the sky,
so they seemed more credible. You know. There was a
few sort of landing cases involved in those books as well,
but were tended to just emphasize the fact that these

(02:48):
strange craft were renering our atmosphere and that there were
sort of surveying our land and doing just exactly the
same thing as the American astro notes were doing on
the Moon. So you know, that just drum my attention, really,
And also it meant I noticed that we of UFO

(03:09):
sightings reported in the local paper, so it meant I
could actually go in the interview people who had seen
these things in the sky. So in a way I
thought you could actually you know, find out about this
subject on your own door step and not just rely
on books. About American cases.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
What's that's very important because for some people, or many people,
the only UFOs were in the US, which of course
you know is decidedly untrue. But it seems strange in
retrospect that one of the most extreme characters in the
UFO field, George Hunt Williamson, was off from one of
the books you saw. You didn't have much of a choice, did.

Speaker 5 (03:55):
You, not really? No, not sure even why it was
in that life trying to brainwash us or something, but
it's probably a figure's long long gone and forgotten, whereas
I did go on to read some of Georgia Dampski's
books as well, and I suppose it's a bit better

(04:17):
remembered nowadays, although I think it'd be nice to actually
make a film or a book about him, because it's
quite a fascinating character and so encapsulated the sort of
sensational side of a subject. But it highlighted, you know,

(04:38):
just the fascination with things coming from outer space. And
another thing with a Dampski is he encountered sort of
Nordic humanoid aliens rather than the sort of Spinley had
large headed ones we get nowadays. But even so, throughout

(04:59):
you followlogy, going from contactees to abduction cases, still get
these reports of people seeing self humanoid humanoid aliens who
are not much different from just normal humans.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Well, the one thing I know is with the dam Ski,
the being he allegedly saw in the California desert, it
appeared very much like the lead character in Daiviers stood
still Plato with long hair. Of course, Dempsey called him orphon.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
Yeah, And it's interesting as well that later on it
was revealed his books tended to be based on earlier
books he'd written as fiction, so in a way it
was kind of trying to bring into reality what he'd
already fantasized in previous books. So it's interesting element of

(06:02):
having st science fiction meddled in with what he was
trying to promote as something real. And like you say,
it was also very similar to the source of movies
of that period, and there was a kind of interaction
between them. I think the flying source of newspaper headlines

(06:22):
inspired filmmakers to jump on the flying source of bandwagon,
and also the films of the way that portrayed things
also inspired more people to report sightings are very similar
to what we're portrayed them A movies, So I think

(06:43):
from then on there's always been a kind of interaction
between the two. And you know, of course, some people
say that the movies have a sort of sole inspiration
for his sighting some interesting new folks that have kind
of conditioned us to see anything in the sky in

(07:07):
terms of flying sources or whatever's sort of currently popular
in the media. And so I think some media images
did inspire contactees and later abductees in the Martin Kochmeyer
has mentioned that Betting Bouney hillcase, a lot of images

(07:34):
from their case seem very similar to images in sort
of B movies of that time or on television, and
nobody's really made an equation between you know, them actually
seeing these programs. But I think what the main point
is that such programs were pretty prevalent in the sort

(07:57):
of early to mid six you know, we had programs
light the Twilight Zone and lots of programs for talking
about e cterrestial life. So it's not about strange up
people would actually report these kind of things.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
You know, it was very interesting with fiction in fact
where it came together. There's a nineteen fifty six sci
fi film with Ray Harry housen Stock Motion Special Effects
Earth versus the Flying Saucers. Well, if you look at
the credits, it was suggested by a factual UFO book,
Flying Saucers from Outer Space by Major Donald Keyo. Now,

(08:40):
when Kyo heard, and he wrote about this in one
of his books, when he heard that Hollywood had bought
the rights to the book, which you don't get very
much money with Hollywood unless you have a special agreement
or a producer's agreement. They could do anything they want
with it. And what they did they took a factual
book turned it into a RADB sci fi movie, not

(09:02):
a bad one, so fun to watch, even though it's
black and white, not a bad one. In fact, it
has different aspects like the way they manipulate time et
when you're board through spaceship, things like that that almost
predicted what happened in the UFO field. But Major Keyo
was embarrassed to no end because if you follow a

(09:26):
lot of what he wrote in his backstory, he was
very very serious. Any UFO case that seemed a bit
too extreme. He tried to avoid. Forget about the contact eves.
You know, it's like Major Kia was on planet Earth
more or less Georgia Dampsky was on Saturn, or maybe
he was on Saturn. I really have to check, Nigel.

(09:48):
We have Tim, we have Gene and a lot more
to talk about.

Speaker 6 (09:51):
You're in the Barracast, I'm Kevin Randall.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
You're listening to the Para Cast, the gold standard of
paranormal radio.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
So, Nigel, when did the interest in UFOs change itself
to active participation, not just talking to people who may
have seen something, but just really going out and writing
and studying it in further detail.

Speaker 5 (10:32):
Well, I think a lot of it down to helping
to set up a UFO group in my hometown of Scunthorpe.
I'd sort of met one or two people and we
chatted informally about a subject and then we put a
little advert in the local paper and about for two
people turned up with knew there was a sort of

(10:53):
interest in the subject. So from about for early seventies,
for two or three year as we had weekly meetings
on a Wednesday and we just talk about the latest
UFO magazines or just generally about euphos and UPHO faries.
One or two of us went out and interviewed people,

(11:17):
mainly in a local area but quite few of these
sightings were a bit disappointing. We're just lights in the
sky or orange orbs that sort of thing, and generally speak,
and they could be attributed to fairly mundane causes like
aircraft and even birds or balloons and that sort of thing.

(11:41):
So I also thought at the time, but you had
to put a lot of effort to try to explain
these sightings or at least tried to eliminate, you know,
mundane explanations. But I could you know, that's quite a
difficult task, even if it's just a light in the sky,
trying to track down where, say weather ballooms have been launched,

(12:04):
or whether it was an aircraft or not, or whether
it's just an astronomical phenomenon. I think any ufologist does
get a lot of reports of search lights, and at
the moment you get in a lot of people seen
SpaceX launches, the starlinks satellites seem to always set off

(12:30):
a wave of UFO sightings, and people taking pictures of
strange things in the sky are very much linked to starlink.
So in a way, that's how I got into looking
at high strangeness cases. Later in the nineteen seventies, but
generally they weren't in my hometown. They were in places

(12:54):
like Leeds, Sheffield and Bradford, and I had a car
by Vents I could drive to these places and interview people.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Did you basically set relationships with UFO research organizations or magazines.

Speaker 5 (13:12):
Yes, I was mainly inspired by the Merseyside Eupho Bulletin
which later become Magonia, and that was run by John
Rimmer and a few other people who wrote for it,
and they were very kind of critical of British euthology

(13:32):
in general, and were quite excited by the theories of
John Keel where he kind of undermined THEO thing about estherterrestos.
And like you said about Donald Kehoe, he was sort
of really firmly in the Etch camp and he wanted
the government to disclose the facts about aliens from outer space.

(13:58):
So he's a sort of hardcore not some boats upologists.
Whereas John Keele looked at the absurdities of a lot
of UFO contact stories and landings and he came to
the conclusion that uphos were just part of a spectrum

(14:19):
a paranormal phenomenon. You know, we've often witnesses also had
sort of potageist experiences or as examples of telepaphy and
all sorts of different psychic powers and prophecies mixed in
with a subject. So he he claimed, you know, everything

(14:42):
wasn't as clear cut as somebody like Donald Keo put forward.
And that was sort of inspirational to British euthology and
European euthologists as well. And we also had a deeper
connection with folklore and fairy law, which something which is

(15:04):
something Jack Valley wrote about in Passport to Magonia, and
so were seen to be the so thing about uphos
not just being aliens from out of space like the
old movies depicted them, but that was something more self
clandestine and sinister that had been manipulating humanity from you know,

(15:27):
from the very beginning of humanity really being created. But
you o the Bibles full of self visions that can
be related to perhaps uphos and gods from out of space.
So in a way he opened up and know new
way of looking at the subject. And so that was

(15:51):
that was something that was inspirational as well as by
the late seventies, in nineteen seventy eight, we got close
encounters of a third kind and that film highlighted the
the thing about that's about kind of contactees for civilians

(16:14):
obvis to telepathic messages and we're inspired to draw the
mountain where they meet. The aliens of the used matted
potato to create the landscape, and it's an interesting film
because it shows civilians going to where the aliens are landing,
and also a military of a military want to put

(16:37):
a lid on it and stop the civilians from meeting
the aliens. So I think Spielberg cleverly uses a lot
of sort of real UFO cases and stories and also
play on the fear of government cover ups, which is
something that was still prevalent seventies in terms of a

(17:01):
Watergate crisis and Nixon being kicked out of being the president,
so people were more likely to leave in government conspiracy,
which is not an area I've been very interested in,
to be honest, But I think with a combination of

(17:22):
John Keill's writing and a few other people who had
similar ideas with Merseyside UFO bulletin, it sort of inspired
me to sort of go and intoview people, and of
course with a film coming out, encouraged more people to report,

(17:42):
you know, stranger sightings than just the ones Donald Keo
would accept. So in a way, I went in there
with an open mind, and I met quite a few
people through reports being passed on by Jenny Randalls, who
set up a UFO Investigators network because of other publicity

(18:07):
around close encounters. And in a way, a lot of
the material in my book is based on the sort
of interviews and information I got in that period, and
well went in these sort of with an open mind.
I didn't really want I didn't have an agenda about

(18:31):
how I was going to interview people. I just let
people tell me their stories and then, you know, and
let them just come to their own conclusions. I didn't
want to sort of direct them in any way, and
I didn't want to really press any particular theory really,

(18:55):
whether it was John Keele's ultra terrescial fear is eth
aliens and things. I just wanted to write down their stories.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Well, that's I think part of the run with Major Keho.
I remember somebody writing an article, a guy named Michael
g Mann for a publication called Saucer News back in
the late fifties, and he posed the theory and I'm
approximating the title it's a long time ago. How close
will Major Donald keho Let a flying saucer get so

(19:31):
really close encounters possible creature sightings. It was really difficult
for he and the organization he headed up Nightcap to
begin to accept, especially Betty and Barney Hills. An example,
Nigel Watson with us jeen Steinberg, Tim Schwartz back from
the seventh grade of Kevin Bacon or something. You're in

(19:54):
the Birycast.

Speaker 7 (19:57):
I'm repeating, We're not in Kansas anymore.

Speaker 8 (20:06):
Hi, it's Greg Cameron from PRESIDENTIALUFO dot Com. You're listening
to the para cast, the gold standard of paranormal and radio.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
You see, Tim invented the seven Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
Even Kevin Bacon doesn't know, you know what, He doesn't care. Actually,
I think he cares about the six degrees. He's aware
of it, and he guy of you looks at it
with some kind of humor because it is really interesting. Anyway,

(20:42):
we don't want to get into that. You ever ever
heard of the six Degrees of Kevin Bacon? Nichel?

Speaker 5 (20:48):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (20:48):
No, No, okay, Kevin Bacon as an American actors you'd
possibly know, won awards and everything does TV, does the movies,
and saying six degrees of Kevin Bacon means that if
you stretch an association of an actres's appearance, so the

(21:09):
second degree would be somebody who work with somebody who
was in a production with Kevin Bacon. Okay, and you
extended each degree, you would get six degrees would always
get you back to Kevin Bacon.

Speaker 5 (21:26):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Well, tim being an alien creature, we made seven degrees.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Seven and a half.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
It gets worse as we talk about it, that's right.

Speaker 5 (21:39):
But it's a bit like with UFO research, for if
you look out for something, it will keep recurring. You
get coinsceces cropping up, and it's easy to go down
a kind of strange rabbit hull. I think John Keel
got immersed in several of his silent contact telling him

(22:00):
that the world was going to end, and I think
he tells of loading his car up and going to
a hilltop to wait for the end, end of the
world or whatever was going to happen. You get all
these similar stories from different sources, and like when I
was writing my book, I have these connections with the

(22:23):
archangel Michael and people. Quite a few people reported seeing
angels or things related to the archangel, you know, mainly
because of her influenced by Bible and a book of revelations,
that sort of thing. But if you start looking out

(22:43):
for something, like if you look for a certain number,
you'll start coming across it. And it's funny because I've
written a piece about angels and uphos for forty Times,
which should come out of the next issue. Since I've
kind of finished, I've kept seeing things about angels all

(23:05):
over the place, so I've kind of got a angel
tunnel vision at the moment. So I think it's interesting.
I think as humans we'd like to search for patterns,
and I think, you know, something like with Kevin Bacon
degrees of separation. It's quite a nice model of trying

(23:30):
to see how we relate to different things.

Speaker 4 (23:35):
It is interesting with the patterns that you were talking about,
because it always seems to me that, say, like I'm
putting a book together and collecting specific types of information,
I normally just really have to struggle, you know, can't
find what I'm looking for. Get the book finished published,

(23:56):
then all that information that I had previously been looking for,
it just comes pouring out from all kinds of other
difference sourses. That's the way it usually works with me.

Speaker 5 (24:07):
Well, I suppose for the angel connection, you could say,
you know, people have talked about library angels in about
fourteen's talk about them sort of collected again, just a
book at random, and they open it and find us
a sort of passage we're interested in, almost as a

(24:27):
guiding force behind it. And with this angel business, it's
interesting because in my article I mentioned some of the
angels looking almost like astronauts as well, but we've got
shiny radiances coming from them. And I spoke to one

(24:48):
person recently and she said she met a couple and
they had this vision of what the wife described as
an angel, but the husband described as an astronaut. And
I thought that's an interesting combination really, So it kind

(25:09):
of shows different forms of perception people have of something
that was ambiguous and how we interpret things. And you know,
that's a fascinating thing about the subject is it does
deal with human perception and how we relate to the

(25:30):
wider environment and dealing with how we perceive anomalous things
or things in the sky. And I think it's a
bit like the contact ease and the movies in the
fifties or whatever. They kind of reflected a lot of
attentions of a period. You know, the movies were often,

(25:53):
you know, very thinly disguised metaphors for communist invasion our
you know, our plight in terms of dealing with atomic weapons.
You know, a lot of these films stepped with radioactivity,
which we're you know, reflecting the fears at that time

(26:14):
of what might happen if award did occur with the
Soviet Union. And remember some inner space of movies really
like invasion of people and being taken over, and so
there was quite a few films in that category. But

(26:34):
was you there the kind of reflection of our own
current obsessions and some moves over time, and often it's
in step with the latest technology, like particularly now there's
all the sphere of drones and u apps, which indicate

(26:56):
people's spheres about what drone tonology can do and how
it sort of dominates the skies and might be controlled
by i've a foreign assets of civilians, secret military operations,
our non human intelligences. So there was this mix of

(27:21):
things in the subject where it's hard to sometimes separate
between what's going on in society and individual psychology. As well.

Speaker 4 (27:34):
With angels. I've found it interesting the modern concepts of angels.
Now they're you know, beautiful, beautiful beings, helpful, they're you know,
they're here to assist us with our problems, you know,

(27:57):
appear to us and you know the glowing, awe inspiring
looks about them. But then you go and turn around
and look at the traditional angels and how people used
to perceive them, and it's pretty much the opposite. You

(28:18):
generally would not want angels visiting you because angels were
the guys who did God's dirty work, you know. The
angels were the ones that would you know, come down
and burn down the cities are you know, or wrestle
you into hell or whatever. Far different than than our

(28:39):
modern ideas of angels.

Speaker 9 (28:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (28:41):
Yeah, that's a good point because it's a bit like
when kind of Founald was reported to see flying sources
over newspaper reports afterwards, how flying sources reported by witnesses
and that kind of never really reported a flying sorcerers

(29:03):
such reported so boomerang like craft. So in a way,
it's what your preconception of something is shapes what you report,
and like you say about angels, they've changed over time,
and the image of angel generally now is a sort
of you know, a winged density with light flowing from

(29:27):
them and being self guardians, being a self personal guardian
or whatever. And also I came across a story I
think of Soviet astronauts have seen angels in space.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
We'll talk about the angels in space and a lot
more with night Gene Tam, we got a lot to do.
You're in the pair of cast.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
This is Chris Radkoski and this is the parac cast,
the gold standard of paranormal radio.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
Now. With the Soviets, we considered them decidedly not religious.
But were they reports of seeing angels romern space?

Speaker 5 (30:29):
Yeah, they but we report I said that they were
like one hundred and fifty feet long, so a different
sort of angel to what we might report. So I'm
not that convinced by anything people say about things reported

(30:49):
from Russia over Soviet unions, because a lot of it
was kind of propaganda, or it was just misinterpretation, and
it might just be that the story came from of
a Soviet version of Weekly World News or something. But
stories from other countries always seem to be more impressive,

(31:13):
Like living in the UK, American cases always seemed far
more interesting and impressive. You know, we never had our
Betty and Barney Hill. You know, it's always a pale
imitation of the American scene. Really, so I think that

(31:34):
that's a fact that you have to think about when
you you do look at other reports and whoever source
of information is. And I think that's a useful thing
about actually going out and interviewing people. At least you know,
you know, a person might be hopesing you are pulling
your leg, but at least you know who they are,

(31:57):
Whereas if you're just reading things, particularly now days on
the Internet, all sorts of stupid stuff comes up, and
often love His stories come up. That we're not down
as hoaxes, you know, five or ten years ago, but
we come back again. That's something that's kind of new

(32:17):
to the subject really because in the past there wasn't
so much in a widespread communication about UFO cases. Even
the Betting Barney Hill case took a long time to
actually go get into the mainstream, whereas now something like
that would probably appear overnight.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
Really, Yeah, the Internet is a to me, it's it's
rather a mixed blessing when when it comes to research
because like you said, I mean, you know, you can,
if you know how to do the research, you could
you can dig up just some really fantastic information.

Speaker 5 (32:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:58):
But on the other hand, there is so much information
out there that a lot of people just take it
all in and accept it as fact, even if, like
you said, it comes from the work, you know, the
weekly World News. You know bat Boy, that boy scene,

(33:19):
you know, coming from a flying saucer. It's like, oh wow,
I believe it.

Speaker 5 (33:23):
Yeah, I think that's the thing that I've just been
looking lately, and it was the latest story is that
was a giant flying sauce or a disc or something
that was put a building over it to disguise it.
And you're getting stories from these whistle blowers, half of
my sort of deathbed confessions and things, and they think,

(33:47):
you know, it's just a massive stupidity really, because you know,
how would you how can you cover up build it?
Put in a building up over it. Crash flowing source,
I think it's one supposed to be in Turkey somewhere,
but it's always somewhere a bit hard and remote to
get to. And I suppose even the crash cases in

(34:12):
America were in New Mexico, and there's probably a bit
in a remote places to actually help anyone investigate those cases.
But the thing is a lot of these stories have
come out and perhaps we're explained or whatever, but we
come back again and again, and the story gets better

(34:33):
as it's retowed in neufology. In the past, it was
stories were passed on in books and magazines. Now we're
passed on from website to website, and we're very It's
really annoying because you've got all these big bait sites.
You see, you've got like tens of thousands of views,

(34:55):
and you think it's just a balloon with sun reflecting
off it or at an aircraft something. But people, I
think people are fascinated by aliens and you and things,
so we don't really want to understand, you know, what
might be causing it. We're just fascinated by seeing it
and it kind of acknowledges their belief and we're not

(35:18):
really investigators or researchers. We just want to be entertained
by the subject. And I think that's the problem with
a lot of people on YouTube and things. They're just
to entertain the people who believe in the subject, and
any facts are kind of left out of it, or

(35:40):
like a lot of these CIA whistleblowers, it's like, well,
I do know the answer to that, but I can't
tell you, so that you're back at square one.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
You know.

Speaker 5 (35:51):
It's like they want the government to disclose things, but
we won't disclosed things and themselves, so the overy thing
becomes like a humpstay ill ascent thing.

Speaker 4 (36:04):
Well, we've had people on the show that they'll be
talking about say their their favorite UFO cases and and
the ones that they think are the most valid, and
a lot of so many of these people bring up
some of the most obvious hoaxes are are low hanging fruit.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
As I call it.

Speaker 4 (36:28):
It's like it's the first things that that everybody when
they first come into the subject researching, it runs across
and they glom onto it, you know, like Billy Myers
or cases like that. I mean, we've got a lot
of people, you know, bring up Billy Myers and how

(36:48):
oh my gosh, you know his the Swiss Farmer, and
you know, his great photos and stuff. But then you
know they're they get a little upset when you say, well,
you know, Bill Myers pretty much has been discredited, and
it's like well, that's news to me. Where have you been.

Speaker 5 (37:09):
Well, I remember Bob Ricard, who set up forteen Times,
showed me one of the early Bob B. Myer books,
Billy Myer books, and the pictures look too good to
be true. And I suppose that's a frustrating thing, is
that if the evidence is too good, you're not going

(37:31):
to believe it, and if a picture's too fuzzy, you're
not going to believe it. But there's just that taint
of from being so clear and voes at the same time.
It's hard to explain, but I think I think most
people can tell what's real, although nowadays we've got Ai
so Maya would have a field day with that. But yeah,

(37:54):
I think it is a problem where you've got certain
people have spoke about working an area of fifty one
and that sort of thing. I think, you know, we've
been telling the same old rubbish, you know, for literally decades,
and it was not you know, it was oddly a
thread of evidence to prove whatever, you know, that was

(38:14):
obvious reverse engineering going on and all that sort of thing.
And I think you've got to take a step back
really and kind of look at this material from a
kind of more historical perspective. And I think the problem
for a newcomer is is just too much information out there.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
I think it's too easy now to think everything. I
think it's too easy to take everything. Like for example,
I've mentioned this before, there is a photograph of a
politician from New York and her initials are AOC supposedly
making a statement on the Halls of Congress in opposition
of somebody's commercial involving genes a female model, and it

(39:05):
looks good. It's also totally fake. There's another one of
former President Barack Obama being arrested and placed in jail.
That's totally fake. It's all AI. I mean, AI can
do almost anything. In the past, we've developed great effects
with CGI, but with AI it adds with Like in

(39:26):
the movie Superman, the Newest version of twenty twenty five,
you see Superman super Dog Crypto, it's all CGI. And
I challenge anyone other than the special effects to determine
the differences between that CGI based dog and the real
dog in which it was based. Is a real dog

(39:48):
they based it on, but has another story. Anyway, We've
got an Igel, We've got Gene, we've got Tim we're
in the.

Speaker 7 (39:54):
Bar cast of feating. We're not in Kansas anymore.

Speaker 10 (40:05):
This is Michah Hanks of the gray Leanterport and you're
listening to the Paracast, the gold standard of paranormal radio.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
Nigel, I wanted to drop back to one thing here.
One of the main, shall we say, accepted wisdoms in
the UFO field is that governments of Earth know all
about what's going on and choose because we're not ready
for it whatever, not to tell us. Obviously we're skeptical

(40:37):
of that tell us more.

Speaker 5 (40:39):
I think the basic problem is that there's no just
it's not just Swong government. It consists of lots of
different agencies. Particularly in America, theres just loads of agents.
Since live the FBI, CIA and all these different agents
since that deal with two thinks that might be related

(41:01):
to UPHOS and as NASA of course as well. I
don't think these organizations have always communicated with each other.
So you've got this thing where the CIA might be
flying spy planes and not telling the United States Air
Force or the United States Navy about these things. And

(41:23):
I think in the past the CIA has admitted that
some quite famous UPHO sightings by airline pilots were of
their own spy planes. But people would then say, well,
not all of them could have been spy planes, and
that you know, it's just handy for the CIA to

(41:45):
use upholks to cover up their activities, or you know,
or people think they're just saying that to cover up
EUPHO activities, and so it gets it gets complicated when
you're dealing with these different agencies and what the government
might might have and were so Area of fifty one

(42:07):
thing kind of arose from the old Rosswell situation. Area
fifty one has where to take of this alien record
wreckage or bodies to and there if you look historically,
Rosswell was barely mentioned in the UFO books until the

(42:27):
sort of nineteen eighties, I think late seventies, early eighties,
and then that was a long time after these events happened,
and lots of curious characters have come up to to
have their different variations on the story and has been
most famous Rosswell slides that weren't pictured of a Rosswell

(42:49):
alien were pictures of a mummy in a cabinet, and
Rosswell seemed to be like a lynchpin of lots of
crazy ideas and theories, and it encourages this idea of
that the United States government as obvious knowledge. But I
don't think it's I don't think it's really tenable for

(43:15):
them to keep a secret for that long and also
to reverse engineer this obvious, marvelous alien technology. But we're
still using conventional technology for most of our sort of
arms or anything. Really, if obvious alien technology they were

(43:35):
reverse engineering was that great, I think would bring it
into the kind of mainstream usage rather than just hiding
it away. You know, what are they doing with it
except flying around scaring farmers in Ohio or something. It
doesn't make sense really, So I think there are government secrets,

(43:57):
but whether the alien related or not, there's something else.
And also there was the same thing about what I
mentioned about spy planes. The same thing about disinformation has
often passed around. And also it doesn't take much for
stories to get elaborated and changed just by uphologists alone

(44:20):
rather than having any agents trying to muddy the field.
Because you know, in Britain we've had a Rendals forest
incident have occurred in sone late nineteen seventy nine, very
again involved the United States military personnel and the fear

(44:42):
is surrounded that I have gone from you know, hoes
prank or alien technology landing near Randalshan Forest, of the
theory about the Ornest Lighthouse cause inver sightings. And even
though you think, well it should all be done and dusted,
you get somebody coming along with new so called evidence

(45:06):
or stories about these famous cases. So I get quite
skeptical about them really, and that if aliens or euphas
would genuinely come in here, they wouldn't just land in
New Mexico or parts of America. And you know of
over our other worldwide crashes known as famous as Roswell,

(45:30):
and you'd have thought if something did crash, it would
be easily reportable through the media, that you know, something
marvelous had happened. But nothing like that's happened at all.
You only have to compare that with the Chinese balloons
that were seen about a year or two ago and

(45:51):
they were actually shot down to was something physically real there,
whereas most of most of the EUPHA reports we get
are very intangible. And when we are tangible, they're usually
due to some mundane course like like a drone or
a weather balloon. But I don't think it really matters

(46:14):
to people what evidence you might say to the contrary,
I think they'll always believe there are government cover ups.
You know, in the last few decades, most governments have
released of a UFO archives and files, and nobody's ever

(46:35):
come across anything really useful from any of them, you know.
I think people who petitioned for freedom of information have
had a bit of a pall hall of material. Really,
there's no smoking of guns, of reports of depots full
of aliens or something. The nearest we got to that

(46:58):
were the Twelve Documents, and they of course our hoaxes
as well, but we're kind of presented the sort of
thing our upologists wanted to have. And I think that's
another thing I think with some people out there tell
stories or present documentary evidence, you know, which is usually fake,

(47:23):
as something to try and prompt a response from governments,
for them to acknowledge that something like that is happening,
or to pressure their foragers to do something about it.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
Well, when you talk about degrees of separation, I knew
Charles Burle, it's one of the two authors of the
first major Roswell book, and Stanton Friedman. So where does
that take me? I don't know, I don't know about
that case. I tend to think that was a test aircraft.
I don't know about Mogul because Kevin Randall another couple

(48:00):
of degrees of separation there, Kevin Randa unknown for like
forty years or something, but he maintains it could not
have been a Mogul balloon because it wasn't on the schedule,
which to me, sixty seventy years later means zero zilch,
because records don't always survive in the manner, especially something

(48:21):
that in retrospect isn't that significant. Oh it's a test balloon.
We did this, we did that may have been important
in nineteen forty seven, but not in nineteen eighty seven.
So you know, so I kind of think that some
of it sounds like they're handling a balloon. But my
big thing about Roswell in addition to that are the

(48:42):
claims of reverse engineering alien technology, and I would challenge
anyone to imagine this scenario. Get on your time machine,
take your Waverrider from the TV show Legends of Tomorrow,
take your Tartis, whatever you use for trime travel. Go
back to nineteen forty seven to Bell Labs, where they

(49:04):
invented the transistor and so many other good things. Take
your iPhone, the latest one you like, the iPhone sixteen Pro,
which will be as soon an iPhone seventeen if we
can afford one. Take your iPhone sixteen pro. Go to
Bell Labs, hand their chief scientists that phone and say, okay,

(49:25):
you figure it out. Goodbye. Now, that's not an aircraft
that could travel at incredible speeds beyond the speed of sound,
beyond the speed of light if they're doing interstellar travel.
It's just a smartphone using today's technology going back to
nineteen forty seven. Figure it out, folks. What we're figuring

(49:46):
out here is Nigel Watson, Gen Steinberg and Tim Schwartz.
I'll never be figured out.

Speaker 6 (49:50):
You're in the Purcast.

Speaker 10 (50:01):
We'd like to hear from you. If you have a
comment or question about the Paracast, send it to news
at the paracast dot com. That's news at the paracast
dot com, and don't forget to visit our famous paracast
community forums at forum dot theparacast dot com.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
Tell you what, guys, these are interesting times. But night
do I gather from what you tell me? You probably
agree with me mostly about Roswell correct, Yeah, that was
a fast answer, thank you.

Speaker 4 (50:36):
There's no dispute.

Speaker 5 (50:39):
Yeah, I think that's a problem. If if that rossvel
had found something like an iPhone, that would have been brilliant.
But if you look at the kind of technology described
by abductees and contact tees, like the Betting Barney Hill
flying source, much like the type of flying saucer you

(51:03):
got in films at the time. It's the same with
Georgia Damski's flying source of trips. The crafts sound just
like the sort of thing described in science fiction films
and novels at that time. So if there was any
genuine technology, it would it would look different, It would

(51:23):
look at least something you know, you know, what does
its iPhone do? But it would be totally useless because
there's no Internet connection at that time, and so in
a way, if you did find alien technology, it wouldn't
be much use because it probably didn't have a kind
of infrastructure that it worked within. And the interesting thing

(51:46):
about most of Roswell evidence is that a wreckage consisted
of like paper and bosa wood and things that sound
very much like the material that these secret balloons constructed of.
But then of course you get a story that when
when the wreckage was photographer replaced the real wreckage with

(52:10):
weather bloom wreckage. But how true that is? It's how
to know, because they only came up with our idea,
you know, decades after the events. And it's funny that
for such an important event, there's no contemporary evidence of it.
You know, you'd have thought, even if it's top secret,
somebody might have put it down in writing a something

(52:33):
in a sealed box or something like that, but nothing
seems to have been preserved like that. I kind of
I'm sort of interested in Roswell in the way that
it spins out so many different things. People find fragments
and you know, tell all sorts of different tales about

(52:54):
and there have been so many hoaxes around it. It's
sort of like a a Key factory neupology that follows
a Donald keyho line that people are searching for some
sort of nuts and boats craft. Whereas in my book
I showed that a lot of people have had you

(53:14):
fo experiences and deal with you know, nightmares and dreams
and premonitions and different things like that. You know, perhaps
that might be no area of a different area of
eupology to the nuts and boats. Eupology is searching for
crash sourcements. But I think I think you've got to

(53:37):
look at over different aspects of a subject and what
drives witnesses and investigators to where experience or investigate the
different elements of this subject. I suppose a lot of
it is at a moment, is about you apps, and
you know there was non human technology, but we've kind

(54:01):
of linked it with psionics, that these EU apps could
be influencing people's minds and sending telepathic messages. So even
the modern day EU apps are very much linked to
the odor ideas you can find in contact to your

(54:24):
abduction literature. And the interesting thing is nobody seems to
talk about alien abductions anymore, which were overrage, you know,
twenty five years ago, and now people don't really explore
that so much. I don't know whether it's just that
the sleep paralysis fary killed it off a bit. At

(54:45):
the moment, we just seem to have this thing about
non human or no nonterrestrial beings operating these fantastic EU apps,
which could actually be drones out just misperceived.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
Let's go back just to like a roswell here. Imagine
we have this alien spacecraft, say it's just a scout craft,
supposedly goes from planet to planet. It's five hundred or
one thousand years ahead of us. Do you think Number
one it was really so defective it would crash, Radar

(55:25):
would bring it down, you know, give me a break.
And then if it really went down, and we have
to assume maybe it was built by the lowest bidder.
You know, they have politics there on taw Seti or
is that a rearticular or something one of these planets
of those star systems, and so it was defective. They
didn't pay the amount of press latinum to build that craft.

(55:49):
They defaulted on the payments. Even if that happened, is
ET just going to sit there and let it happen?
If one of our craft lands in a rogue country
like Russia, Iran, China, do you think we're gonna let
sit there and not try to Number one recover it
self destructed? That's us With our technology, You don't think

(56:14):
ET wouldn't come over there and grab the spaceship, take
its neuralizer and wipe out everybody's memories and zip off.
Of course, then if there was a Roswell and a crash.
Maybe the reason we don't see any evidence of the
wreckage is that et did just that it does not pass,
as mister Spock says, the logic test.

Speaker 5 (56:36):
M it's a tricky one because you might think, well,
some people, I think just recently have kind of made
a two man model of a Rosveld craft. Put somebody say,
you know, this sort of craft couldn't have traveled into
stellar distances, So where did it come from? And especially argument, well,

(57:01):
if it's so advanced, it can do anything and with anything.
And the problem with our concept is that you can't
really use any sort of rational logic with our argument,
because when you can say, well, aliens can make us
believe anything or do anything, the kind of chart valley

(57:23):
manipulation thing. But I think, well, why would aliens to
stop it? Why would we create images and projections of
spaceships and aliens and insectids and reptids, you know, why
not manifest themselves and lots of ways that would have
a bigger impact on humanity and be some vague ghost

(57:47):
like things. And I think the thing is with Roswell
as well, is that you know, there's talk of recovery
of bodies that there's a different land in sight. And
then we get the old thing about the alien or
top s footage which was allegedly filmed of the Rosswell

(58:08):
aliens that were recovered, and so people piggyback on Rosswell
and I think that's a problem. But if it's a
major case, lots of people come into play, and that
it's hard to ben define what actually did happen, and
you get people just muddy in the subject, and you know,

(58:30):
I think I don't want to really be too much
of a de bunker anyway. I'd rather just kind of
look at the fact and what seems to be the
most credible. And you know, in terms of Rosswell, I
think the bloom theory seems to fit, even though the
main argument is so didn't have flight data for that day,

(58:52):
but I'm not sure if their records were that fantastic.
And that also some of these balloon might have been
kept in the atmosphere, you know, for moren for a
longer period than just a launch date. And another, factories
for day of the actual Rosswell crash seems to change

(59:17):
a lot according to different people's stories. And also there
was a lightning storm then, so it seems around that
period that might have brought down one of these experimental balloons.
So you know, that seems more credible to me and
more reason why, you know, the government would want to

(59:38):
collect this wreckage. But even for people who collected the
wreckage at that time didn't seem to be very impressed
by it.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
Nigel Gene, Tim, you're in the podocast.

Speaker 6 (01:00:07):
I'm Kevin Randall.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
You're listening to the para cast, the gold standard of
paranormal radio.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
That's interesting the reaction of the alleged recovery of the
Roswell crash. The first day there was a newspaper story
and said they recovered a flying disc, and then the
next day, oh no, here's the balloon, and this is it. It's
all done. That's it. I think if anything really happened,
like one of those spaceships in Earth versus the flying

(01:00:39):
Saucers crashed in your farm land somewhere, if they did it,
you'd never know about it. Even the people who saw
it would be blocked. We lived in more in times
then where people were more loyal to their countries than
they are now. You're president of the President of the

(01:01:01):
United States. At that time, it would be Harry Truman.
If you are a loyal American president, Truman's people say
you do not talk about it. Your life will depend
on it. If anything happens towards the end of your
life and you do a deathbed confession, consider your relatives.

(01:01:22):
End of story, goodbye.

Speaker 5 (01:01:26):
I think the thing is, yeah, the story isn't much
solid because there's so many variations, and I think even
Kevin Randall has come up with quite a lot of
people who gave flose testimony. I think it's a story
of a nurse that said you'd seen the bodies, and
then nobody's actually been there to track down the nurse.

(01:01:48):
And I think there's a lot of shadowy stories to
support the claims but don't really stuck up when you
investigate them. And I suppose over time it gets harder
and harder to track anything down. And I think as well,

(01:02:09):
where it crashed, did the foot, there'd be some fragments left.
Nobody actually hung onto these fragments. You know, we spoke
about this miraculous foil and all these different things, but
nobody thought to sort of hide it or anything, and
it was all taken away and it just become it

(01:02:32):
just sounds like wreckage from a balloon. Really doesn't seem
to be anything that, you know, seemed high tech or anything.
It didn't even sound like aircraft wreckage. So I don't know,
it just doesn't seem to stack up in lots of
different ways.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
What's interesting to me is, of course, if something really happened,
all the stuff we're hearing, that's just disinformation. Yeah, look
over there, it's happening over there, Yeah, to your southwest,
but look what's happening in the northeast.

Speaker 5 (01:03:06):
Yeah. I think a good point about what you said
about the newspaper is that the headline was, you know,
we captured a flying disc. So we were proud to
have actually captured this thing. But it was in the
context of his own flying saucer craze, you know, Kenneth
Arnold and everything, So anything that was strange was called

(01:03:28):
a flying disc. You know, the Rosswell thing could have
been any shape really because it had crashed, so, you know,
just everything was brandished as a flying disc at that time.
So it was just on the coattails of all this
enthusiastic enthusiasm about flying sources, and were quite a lot

(01:03:50):
of pranks that if you look up the newspapers, and
there's quite a lot of people playing pranks and taking
pictures of frisbees or whatever, and so the story was
just part of a kind of flying source of circus
at the time. And I suppose some people would say, well,

(01:04:14):
the government was quick to suppress it and come up
with an explanation, but it you know, it's equally true
that would come up with an explanation because you know,
that's that's what it was. It was some type of balloon.
The fact that it might have been one of his
Mogul balloons that was top secret meant that they had

(01:04:34):
to pretend it was a weather balloon and something more secret.
So it was a bit of an embarrassment really because
I say, no, you can't publicize that because it's some
secret balloon. And then by trying to hide the balloon evidence,

(01:04:55):
it then makes it look like you're hiding alien technology
in a way of a government can't really win on level.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
Tim it just.

Speaker 4 (01:05:13):
When it comes to the whole Oswell fiasco, and that's
what I think it is now. It really though, it
is like the template really for for all kinds of
other types of UFO hoaxes slash disinformation.

Speaker 11 (01:05:39):
Cases.

Speaker 5 (01:05:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:05:40):
Uh, Rendelsh is another one that you know comes into mind,
and how it's become, Uh, it's gone from a fairly
simple you know, quotation marks around that case, okay, to
something that is now really complicated. I mean, you know,
now it's time travelers or or even some kind of

(01:06:04):
you know, military test on it short on its soldiers
type of things. So you know, I mean it's yeah, okay,
go ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:06:11):
I'm sorry. Well, I was just going to say that
it took quite a while to get out of Colonel's
memorandum about the sightings, but I think he got the
dates wrong on that, and they're just lights or something
that we'd encountered, and it seemed thought if there was

(01:06:34):
something more substantial, you'd have got a far better report.
You know, you had better UFO reports in amateur U
film magazines than somebody just writing a memo. Oh yes
on you know X many days ago lights were seen
in the forest near the base and stuff, and I
think surely you would have investigated it in far more

(01:06:57):
detail and written down the details. Instead, these events occurred
over a kind of couple of nights, and we're never
really I don't know, it just seems to be different
people with different stories, and like you say, it's escalated
over time. But with this far savy tape recording of

(01:07:18):
I think Colonel Hoe and some others going into the
forest with Geiger counters and it just seems a bit
of shambles really, you know. And I don't think I've
ever been convinced by the rendalson case. And you know,
like I said with Roswell, you just get lots of

(01:07:38):
newcomers adding more to a story, or you know, having
all these conspiracy theories when you know it could have
out bought them, be just a prank because you know,
the military people are known for pranking each other. But
you know, it's just one of these things that's escalated

(01:07:59):
and the story is really told. I think particularly of
his you for documentaries on TV, I was covering these
same cases.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
Well, the case with the case of Rendelsham, I think
it has other aspects and I still think maybe test aircraft.
But we have a guy named John Burrows, one of
the soldiers who came in close contact with this craft
whatever it was, and later on suffered nasty symptoms, had

(01:08:32):
to threaten to sue the VA, and we had him
and the lawyer and Nick Pope on the Power Cast
several years ago to talk about it. Finally the VA
said yes, they'll pay for his medical care. Now, I
don't know that that was a spaceship. It could have
been like the crashed object or landed object in the

(01:08:52):
cash Landrum case, where people came too close to something,
maybe a test of a nuclear aircraft, and they suffered
radiation burns or something. But that's us, that's not et
giving people those things, and certainly they do their best
to keep that quiet. And we don't think today about

(01:09:13):
nuclear aircraft, except if we remember the past history of
Stanton Friedman, a nuclear physicist. What was he working on
before his career basically ended and he became a flying
saucery lecturer and writer and also, by the way, one
of the people introducing the Roswell case the public. What

(01:09:36):
was he working on in terms of nuclear propulsion? Hmmm,
we have more HMMs and other stuff going on with Nigel,
Gene and Tim.

Speaker 11 (01:09:47):
You're in our para cast.

Speaker 9 (01:10:03):
You're in the pair cast when you never know what's
going to happen.

Speaker 5 (01:10:07):
Next you is Hee, the possibility is Nigel, Oh yeah, yeah,
I think that's the thing. A lot of these people
in neupology have got a lot of interesting backgrounds, and
Stanton Freedman, I said, was a nuclear physicist of some

(01:10:29):
sort before becoming kind of professional so UFO lecturer. Really,
you know, there might be secret technology that was being
worked on but never perhaps got beyond the designer experimental phase.
And perhaps also that I think some organizations might like

(01:10:55):
to perportraate the idea of alien technology, just to make
it seem that it was something people shouldn't talk about
and to hide it. I just sort of somewhere where
Elon Musk, whenever he announces new things like cyber truck,
he always say this is alien technology. Amost like it's

(01:11:18):
bringing to like alien technology. I don't think it means
it literally, but I think in organizations that I'm dealing
with experimental things, you could use this sort of oh,
it's something really top secret, an alien technology, And I

(01:11:38):
think if I think somebody's interested environment might even pull
the leg about it. It's interesting. You often get accounts
of people of Savor were in the military and that
we were showing like a book about alien technology, or
somebody said resort a film about an alien autopsy before

(01:11:59):
the famous one was released, and it does make you
wonder whether sometimes people were showing these things about aliens
to test how they can keep a secret, because if
somebody came out with these stories with know the source
of that information. So there's lots of different permutations. Really,

(01:12:23):
I think that's why it's difficult to get to the
bottom of Rosswell or Rendelsom. And I think people just say,
you know, I don't care because I just believe in that,
because if a government denies it, that means they'll believe it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
Well, you know, when you're raised as the cybertruck earlier
and looks weird and at the risk of Elon must
sue me, you know, I'll email you my address if
you need to assume me because I could use some publicity.
I think it's badly built, overpriced crap. Your story is
here word Virtually every units and recalled for something, parts

(01:13:04):
are falling off. Did I say it was ugly?

Speaker 5 (01:13:09):
I think you did, because I think that's a thing.
Though Elon Musk has over promised about lots of things.
You know about the hyper loop, a cyber truck having
a sort of Tesla sports car, solar tiles on roofs,
it has come out with loads of things, and his

(01:13:30):
timeline for getting to Mars as there he's you know,
five years in the future, and you think it's a
really high profile person. Even now in Britain you hear
about people wanting to talk to him about artificial intelligence,
as if it's some master expert on everything, when really

(01:13:51):
it's just it's just over over sewed and being over
optimistic about all these things he promises, and a lot
of projects is put forward have never happened, or with
a cyber truck, it just turned into a fiasco. And
when you think somebody like that or gets worldwide attention,

(01:14:14):
it still gets people willing to broadcast his ideas and
what is going to do next. When you compare him
with say people in Newfology, it's the same case. It
doesn't matter what you say about what these people are saying,
you know, debunking them, they're always other supporters. And it's

(01:14:37):
the same with Musk. Really he's done a lot of
brilliant things with a Falcon nine projects like that, but
I don't think there're so thing about going to Mars
is going to happen, because after nine launches it still
hasn't got something into all bit let alone going to

(01:14:59):
the moon or mass. So I think it's just overly
optimistic and that I don't think it will probably happen
in my own lifetime.

Speaker 7 (01:15:10):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
Remember also, Elon Musk did this project with the US
government DOGE where they were supposed to bring about a
trillion dollars in savings. After all was said and done,
it ended up costing the government several billion dollars because
of all the lame brain stunts they pulled. They had

(01:15:32):
reports of what they saved. They'd have expired contracts, non
existing contracts, faked figures. So if he could do that
with the government, where allegedly you have to have some
level of authority, some level of verification, just say things
like you do maybe on a talk show or something,

(01:15:53):
how could you believe anything he says. Think of all
the lawsuits against the auto driving technology of a Tesla.

Speaker 5 (01:16:00):
Yeah. Another point though, is that if the government's got
o this alien reverse technology, why are they giving most
literally billions of dollars to launch these rockets are patently useless,
you know, you know, why aren't we using the reverse
alien technology to go back to the Moon or go

(01:16:23):
to Mars. It's obviously, if we can reverse any of
his technology, it's obviously not of any practical value. And
we're still spending billions on rockets that aren't really that
much difference from the ones that were launched in the
Second World War. So you know what happened to ovis

(01:16:44):
fantastic technology that's hidden in area fifty one. Doesn't make sense,
does it.

Speaker 4 (01:16:51):
It's because we're already there, Nigel. We're already on the moon,
we're already on Mars. They just don't want us to know.

Speaker 5 (01:17:04):
Nigel.

Speaker 4 (01:17:05):
I've got a couple of questions here from our listeners
for you, and these questions they're both on the same subject,
and they're going to bring up your research on airship sidings.
Oh yeah, so let's see here. And I know that
you know a little bit about the subject. And our

(01:17:30):
first question comes from Flatwoods, that is his screen name,
and Flatwoods wants to know could you please ask Nigel
to elaborate about the airship sidings of eighteen ninety six
and could these have simply been early prototypes of a dirgible.

Speaker 5 (01:17:54):
All right, well, we'll be eighteen ninety six ninety seven sightings.
I think there is a there's a section of people
who have looked at it and do think it might
have been some form of secret invention. That was the

(01:18:14):
main thing people believed. But a lot of these sightings
a bit like UFOs flaps today, are of lights and
the sky and that sort of thing. But people did
have what we'd now call close encounters of a third kind.
And there's lots of stories in the local newspapers of

(01:18:38):
a period of lots of these stories of people walking
in the fields coming across a huge airship with petellers
and fans, propellers and fans and this sort of thing.
And we often spoke to a secret inventor in his
crew would say, you know, this has got to well
be made public in a in a few weeks time,

(01:19:01):
and we're just testing the craft. And then there's a
few more sort of weirder tongue in cheet sort of
stories about these sort of landings. And I think a
high proportion of the more elaborate stories our newspaper hoaxes,
because newspapers at that time didn't have great standards, and

(01:19:27):
a story like that was presented as a form of entertainment.
But Eddie Bullard in America has done overs airship research
and gone through all the old files of that, and
we're literally hundreds, if not thousands of sightings of anything
from lights in the sky to.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
Constructed airships more with Nigel gene An Timurine over.

Speaker 7 (01:19:55):
Paraghost opinion, we're not in Kansas.

Speaker 8 (01:19:58):
Anymore, the choicy to may screen write a producer. You're
listening to Paracast the Eagle standard of paranormal radio.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
Lgel Watson has more airship lore for us.

Speaker 5 (01:20:21):
Go ahead, all right, well with the airships. I think
it was a story that sort of some snowboarding the newspapers,
and I think a lot of the newspapers newspapers wanted
to get in on the act. And then he got
sort of rival newspapers debunking these sightings, and he got

(01:20:44):
these explanations that some sightings were of you know, kites
or hot air balloons being launched. And we work quite
a lot of pranksters about and they're so well fit.
Mystery did have the equivalent of Rosswell and the Aurora,

(01:21:05):
Texas crash, where the Martians spaceship as a leged have
crashed into a windmill on a farmer's ranch and the
people who went to the cross site said we found
a sort of Martian and Hiero glyphics explaining, you know,
that it had come from from that planet. They put

(01:21:28):
the wreckage down the well and give the the pilot
a Christian funeral the next day in the local cemetery.
And it's sort of obvious if you look at the
context of the other stories at the time, that this
was a hoax and that you know, people would have

(01:21:49):
known the characters mentioned in the story as locals, but
they wouldn't wouldn't have believed any of this. And I
think I think the main thing with that story, although
it sounds really good to us with our UFO mindset,

(01:22:10):
it seems improbable that actually just hide over wreckage and
bury the pilot. You know, this would be of major
scientific value. You know it will be world shattering at
that time. Well even though something like that will be
world shattering, So why would you bury all the evidence
that it was just a hoax? There's so many in there.

(01:22:31):
But I think the problem is when the story has
got resurrected in the sixtes onwards, people have taken them
as literally true. So you know, people have gone back
to Aurora Cemetery on various occasions to try and find
the smart and body and things like that. So I

(01:22:51):
think you've got to take a lot of stories with
a pinch of soap. But there might be some core
to some of these sightings. Because of over a wide
area of the United States, it's hard to believe somebody
could just one or two inventors could do this, especially

(01:23:11):
given the state of air in article technology at that time.
So I'm so skeptical that was even any solid craft
amongst these stories are at best it was perhaps just
a sort of balloon balloon with a basket and a
propeller on it, and something like that would probably be

(01:23:35):
quite impressive to somebody who didn't know anything about aircraft.
But if you look at the newspapers and the illustrations
are very improbable looking aircraft. You know, there were things
with sort of wings and propellers and flaps and things,
and we're just sort of objects that would be impossible

(01:23:57):
to fly unless they had some really weird technology inside.
But I think it was just a major, major flat
caused by hopes and people reporting anything strange in the sky.
When I first got interested in phantom airships and these

(01:24:21):
historical cases, I kind of thought well, we didn't have
satellites and aircraft and all that sort of thing to
pollute the skies, but the skies were polluted by things
like meteors and fireballs, misidentification of planets, which seemed to
be the cause of a lot of mass sightings in

(01:24:42):
towns where people I think people just get excited about
the idea of going outside and seeing something in a sky,
like a phantom airship or a secret aircraft, and obvious
people were gathering towns and cities, and then anything in
sky would be interpreted as as an airship, and some

(01:25:05):
people just saw of light where you'd get odd people saying, oh,
I saw of a shape of a craft behind the light,
and then other people in the crowd would help engineer
rumors that it was going to land and things like that.
So I think what I would call us a social panic,

(01:25:27):
and we seem to happen in terms of modern day
UFO flaps or like things like the New Jersey u
up flap, because primarily by people seeing drones or whatever
they were. But so I'm skeptical that it was anything
really solid or marvelous.

Speaker 3 (01:25:49):
Well, bear in mind, also, Nigel, that there were newspaper
editors at the time to sell copies of the paper
would make up stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:25:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
This is before we had the News of the World,
the National Inquirer, the Star and all that stuff. There
were regular daily newspapers, probably in small towns, seeking to
get circulation, and they throw stuff like this in there.

Speaker 5 (01:26:14):
Yeah, because it's been quite a lot of different hoaxes
in the nineteenth century. There's the one about the fantastic
telescope seeing moonmen on the surface of the Moon and
things like that. So there was quite a few hoaxes
and people enjoyed. I think people enjoyed reading them. And

(01:26:37):
it's also interesting that sheres Verne wrote Clipper and mcclouds,
which mentions a save air ship being seen in the
United States, and so I think he might have been
inspired by these stories. Was probably repeated in French new

(01:27:00):
papers because we have to remember a lot of his
stories to get worldwide circulation even back in those days,
and so very again, these airships got woven into into fiction,
and you know, there was a lot of excitement about

(01:27:22):
aerial technology at that time. It's interesting the Americans cit
in terms of secret inventors that something will be change
in the owl of transports, whereas in Britain we have
in nineteen oh nine and nineteen thirteen air ship scas

(01:27:43):
where we had people who were frightened of German Zeppelins,
and so lights in the sky were interpreted in terms
of being German search lights searching out targets for a
future war. And where again we got people who said

(01:28:06):
we saw landed craft with Germanic people jumping into the
basket of a sair ship. And then there's other stores
of people seeing a cigar shaped craft with a platform
beneath it with occupants inside. And you know, these sightings

(01:28:27):
were widely reported in the local and national press, and
part of this was a campaign to get Britain to
build better resources to defend ourselves against German Zeppelins. And
it was a kind of frightening thing that people were

(01:28:51):
writing the articles in the paper to say that, you know,
you'd only need x amount of German Zeppelins to bomb
and into submission if there was a warm So there
was a lot of scare mongering and association of the
Seplins with German spies. So it was a kind of

(01:29:13):
old panic about invasion really, which is something in America
didn't occur, even though in America. I did have a
nineteen thirteen airship scare in New England primarily and where
again a secret inventor came forward and said it was

(01:29:38):
him who had created this airship.

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
There was a comedian who used to say, everyone wants
to get into the act. Yeah, exactly, but I can't.
I can't say it the way he does. I'd destroy
my voice. Nigel, Gene and Tim, you're in the.

Speaker 9 (01:29:52):
Burraghast this is your own park.

Speaker 8 (01:30:07):
Later of the other books to.

Speaker 3 (01:30:11):
The minim, let's focus on this and then more on
your latest book. Nigel, of all the UFO cases you've
investigated anything out there you cannot find a conventional explanation for.

Speaker 5 (01:30:30):
Well. In terms of my book, I just generally because
I think with my book it's mainly to record what
these people ever experienced and reported to me. And there's
one particular person near the end of her book, Paula
Green to the Way Down to Earth person. And yet

(01:30:54):
her stories are really fantastic, But as a child she
came across her strange like she kind of spoke to
a bird at one time, and that when she was
a sort of a young teenager, I think it was
she she went through these woods with her friend and

(01:31:16):
saw a large propeller light structure that beamed a light
on herself and a friend, and then when she came home,
she found that there'd been four hours of missing time.
So and she had a lot of other what she
called experiences are very much like alien abductions, but she

(01:31:38):
said would often happen where she didn't know how she
was taken. On one occasion, she kind of found herself
in a molded room with a stream that showed beautiful
images that turned into an apocalypse and the destruction of
a earth. And she's had all these different experiences in

(01:32:00):
a life. And you know, I've spoke to her about
sleep paralysis, about the kind of thing, but I think
it's very hard to really pin down what these somebody
like her has experience, and just saying it's sleep paralysis,
it's just like putting on another label. Really, And I

(01:32:23):
think it's fascinating that we should study more why certain
people have these experiences, why these experiences have shaped him
the way they are, Because in my book, there are
a lot of these people who were mainly add telepathic

(01:32:44):
communications or inspirations to write down messages from aliens and
the kind of proto abduction cases. There's another person that
mentioned but he nearly got abducted inside a flying saucer,

(01:33:05):
but it didn't quite work and he kind of got
beamed down again. So obvious stories are quite fragmentary, really,
but we add up to being all using elements of
what I suppose you'd cover UPHOE mythology. And in the
other cases, there isn't just so thing about seeing grays

(01:33:26):
or specifically being abducted and being examined. It's only in
one or two of a later case. As I mentioned
our examples of where people say of being abducted, there's
one case where a man said, when he was about
eleven quite a few years back, found himself on an

(01:33:48):
examination table with a candy classic with kind of aliens
who look like the pink panther but didn't have a
pink panther tail. You know, added his stories sound really fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:34:04):
Pink Wait, wait a minute, pink.

Speaker 5 (01:34:08):
Yeah, So it's so fantastic stories. But I think all
of the people seem very genuine about them, and I
think they're very kind of similar in that we're role
using the UFO mythology to try and understand the sort
of experiences they have. And I think another thing is
that like you might be able to explain in one

(01:34:30):
case by sleep paralysis, but another case by terms of
say fantasy proneness or some other theory, or or you
could just say that all of these people are being
influenced by you know, non terrestrial intelligences or aliens in
flying sources beaming psionic weapons them. You know. So I've

(01:34:57):
kind of left it for people to leave this open
for them to do to decide. I have put down
some of the more popular fearies to explain these events,
but I think all of them are a bit unsatisfactory really,
and you need a real expert just to probe just

(01:35:17):
one case. And I think as uthologists we don't really
have a resources to do that, because even something like
the better in Barney Hill case was more research, more
by a journalist than by euthologists, because they didn't want
to touch a case of abduction in case it was catching.

(01:35:41):
I think I just wanted to explore over stories that
most youthologists at that time rejected as pure fantasy or
not part of the UFO subject. But I think you've
got to be open minded and just look at every
element of a subject, really, And you know, it's kind

(01:36:04):
of following, you know, the works of John Keel who
suggested of these things about super spectrum on things. But
I'm not really a follower of John Keele's ideas anymore. Really,
I just think they were a kind of gateway into
looking at the subject from a different angle. And I

(01:36:26):
think that's what we've got to do, really, is that,
you know, we shouldn't just slavishly believe, and we shouldn't
slavishly debunk things. So I know that sounds like a
neutral sitting on the fence, but I think with a
subject like this, I think if you go to any

(01:36:47):
of it streams, you just end up in a code sack.

Speaker 3 (01:36:52):
In retrospect. By the way, I was looking up the
Pink Panther movies of course, Peter Sellers. Yeah, Martin took
over the role in the early two thousands and the
latest person to play in spectracluse. So and I find
hard to believe, but maybe I don't. Eddie, Oh, yeah,

(01:37:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:37:15):
He has he hasn't played in me yet. He's he's
it's still in the works, but yeah, I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (01:37:21):
Well, he Redid the Beverly Hills Cop Story, which I thought,
as a semi reboot based on the original films, was
not a bad film. I mean, I've seen worse, but
I thought it kind of followed the beats of the
original film, had some of the same characters in it,
and I thought it was fun. It was an Okay

(01:37:43):
two and a half star movie, which nowadays for a
comedy movie, getting an Okay two and a half star
movie is not at all bad as things go. But
let's get back to something we've been touching on over
and over again. Betty and Barney Hill. Yeah, early sixties,
New Hampshire. Now I live in New Hampshire, not far

(01:38:07):
from them. Like six or seven years later, I met
Betty Hill and she seemed like an awfully nice woman,
very sincere, although she had some pretty wacky experiences later
in her life. What do you think happened to them?

Speaker 5 (01:38:24):
Well, I think it's one of the most impressive cases
in a way, because it's such a Moustone in alien
abduction thing. But when you read John Fuller's book Interrupted Journey,
you do realize that Barney seemed to be in a

(01:38:45):
fearful state that had taken this trip to Kindia almost
like a whim and even before I think just sort
of setting off again, finally felt intimidated by some people
in a diner. I think it was so it was

(01:39:07):
this and we're kind of like he wanted to get home,
really and then their car is followed by a light
quite often saw and then to stop the Karen Barney
saw his craft through binoculars and that he kind of
when he went a bit closer to look at it,

(01:39:29):
he saw a kind of crew working on controls thro
the windows of a craft, and one of them self
looked like a Nazi, and then he kind of run
back to the car and fear and they were sped
off away from from that sighting.

Speaker 3 (01:39:48):
More of Betty and Barney Hill with Nigel gen Tim
you're in the Paracast.

Speaker 8 (01:40:07):
Hi, this is Tracy Torme screenwrite a producer. You're listening
to the para cast, the gold standard of paranormal.

Speaker 3 (01:40:12):
Radio, Betty and Varney Hill. Okay, now in retrospect, remember
what's happening here. It's early sixties. You have a white
woman and a black man married, and today that's nothing,

(01:40:34):
it's nothing special. It's regular people enjoying their lives. But
back in the nineteen sixties early nineteen sixties that was
a social problem, and they were supposedly active in the
NAACP and everything. How much did their personal status and
the fact that some people unfortunately shunned them that might

(01:40:58):
have impacted what happened to them mm hmm.

Speaker 5 (01:41:02):
I think that was a big factor that I think
particularly Barney felt threatened, and being a inter racial couple
as well at that time was frowned upon and he
did feel fear full of a lot of things. Really,

(01:41:23):
I think he was suffering a few problem family problems
and things as well. And having this UFO chasing the
car in the middle of the night so I didn't
didn't really help matters. And of course when we got
home we had all this thing about missing time, but

(01:41:46):
we The interesting thing is, after the initial event, it
was Betty Hill who had over nightmares about alien contact
and not being abducted, but she just thought it was
kind of a nightmare. But it was Bernie who had

(01:42:08):
a lot of psychological problems and that's what led them
to being hypnotically regressed, not to discover what happened in
that missing period of time, but for therapeutic reasons, and
then the story came out, but you know, quite a

(01:42:30):
long time had elapsed between reciting and the HP not
it regression, and so very hypnosis might have just released
with the ideas that Betty had said had occurred in
her nightmares and dreams. So in a way, that's why

(01:42:53):
both her stories are very similar. Although like a lot
of these abductions were there are two people abducted at
the same time are often taken into separate rooms, so
then we can have a separate story really, rather than
they are collaborating in terms of they were they were

(01:43:17):
abducted inside a flying saucer, but then whatever happens inside
there gets cannot be collaborated by the other person, so
the details can be a lot different. And it's just
interesting as well that at that time the aliens just
dragged them into the flying saucer on they had scuffed

(01:43:41):
outs on the hills of his shoes or on the
front of his shoes, I don't know, but they had
scuffed out, so it's sort of indicated but being dragged
inside the flying saucer, whereas later abductions people were just whizzed,
you know, through walls or windows without any problem. So

(01:44:05):
this was more like an abduction you'd get in a
B movie really, because it injures so much on hypnotic regression.
That's another aspect of it. But I think it kind
of cast upon these problems. Like we've him seeing the
naziing flying saucer. It's kind of threatening image to anyone really,

(01:44:27):
and sort of indicates the kind of fears he had
from whatever it was that was following them in the sky.
You know, some people have explained the so called UFO
the souls over planet, so some navigation light or something
on a hilltop, and some people have even argued that

(01:44:48):
they didn't really have any missing time that because it's
stopped to observe this flying saucer and made some other
stops and things. We could have actually just taken longer
than normal. But whatever happened that night, it was obviously
traumatic to Bernie, and Betsy was got really interested in

(01:45:10):
the UFO subject to try to check the car for
radio activity or something by moving the compass. Ten.

Speaker 4 (01:45:20):
One more question, Well, yeah, this one is from Richard Hopkins.
This question is rather elaborate, so we may have to
continue this in the after the paragraft. But Richard just
wants to know, Nigel, do you think that the phantom
airship sightings and this is all of them are all

(01:45:40):
around the world, proves that the phenomena adapts to what
our upcoming culture technology is going to be.

Speaker 5 (01:45:52):
Yeah, well that's a very John Kill and Jacques Vallis
said that the aliens cultural track us, but they present
themselves one step of our modern day technology. So when
we're trying to develop airships, we see fantastic airships because

(01:46:13):
that's the sort of thing we'd expect fantastic technology to
look like. Or you know, after the Second World War,
ken of Ronald sort a type of craft we might
expect a sort of spaceship of some kind might look like.
So there's the idea of cultural tracking. But there's two

(01:46:34):
ways of looking at it. One is that some intelligence
or whatever it is, aliens or whatever, is manipulating things,
so that these are why we are seeing these things.
But another explanation is not from the top down, but
from the bottom upwards that our own society and culture means.

(01:47:00):
So if we see something weird in the sky, that's
the sort of thing we'd interpret something. So an ambiguous
object like a brightly twinkling star turns into the search
light of a airship, of a search light of a
flying saucer, And I think I support that idea of

(01:47:23):
that it's in the context of a society of a
person's living in and you know, like we were saying,
the newspapers in eighteen ninety six ninety seven were full
of these stories.

Speaker 3 (01:47:36):
Nigel's latest book is Paranormal Perspectives Portraits If Alien Encounters Revisited.
We'll have more just that discussion on our premium show, Nigel.
For those who want to learn more about what you do,
where can they check out your work?

Speaker 5 (01:47:50):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:47:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:47:51):
You can get a hood of a copy of a
book on Amazon and most of her online retailers. And
I've got a Facebook page card Uphoe are Uphoe Investigations.
But if you kind of look on Facebook and look
for me either you should find my page.

Speaker 3 (01:48:14):
And it won't come in an airship. The page is
not going to land in an airship. Although I'm just
thinking somebody with good AI, Nigel, they'll have your page
land in an airship. How about that? You can find
us not in an airship or through AI, but maybe
later at threads x Blue Sky Social Facebook as the

(01:48:37):
power Cast. Look for the Powercast. You'll find us. We'll
be there, I promise you, not hidden away in AI.
We also have a streaming service to Paracast plus at
the Paracast dot Plus, Theparacast Dot Plus where you get
this show without the ads, plus the After the Powercast
exclusive premium podcast. Is that enough support olives and Nigel

(01:49:01):
will be back because we have lots of things on
the table to talk to him about. Go check out
for the Paracast Plus, the Paracast Dot Plus once again,
the Paracast dot Plus, the Paracast Dot Plus. Nigel Watson,
what a great show. Thank you for joining us on
the Paracast.

Speaker 5 (01:49:22):
Okay, thank you very much for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
The para Cast featuring James Steinberg is a copyrighted presentation
of Making the Impossible Incorporated. Tune in next week for
a new adventure in the para Cast.

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August 17, 2025 — UFO Explorer Nigel Watson

Episode Transcript

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}August 17, 2025 — UFO Explorer Nigel Watson