Classic Episode: August 4, 2013 — Dulce Base Legends: Greg Valdez - The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You're in the Power Cast, the gold standard of paranormal radio.
And now here's Gene Steinberg.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
With Gene and Chris. We're back on the Power Cast. Chris, however,
is not at his home studio. He is in New
Mexico on a secret voyage. No, it's not so secret.
I'll tell you about it in a few minutes. You know,
I want to start this discussion and related to last
week's great debate with Kevin Randall and Scott Ramsey over

(00:56):
the Aztec crash. I wanted to make a few observations
and then Chris will chime in with his and that
is now. I grew up in a small town called Brooklyn,
New York, with about two and a half or three
million people, But Aztec in Mexico today has what sixty
five sixty six hundred people. In small town America, especially
during the forties and fifties, everybody knew everybody. The local

(01:20):
newspaper had all the stuff that's going on, the births,
the marriages, everything else. So now just imagine now that
in March of nineteen forty eight, a flying saucer lands
or crash lands in a nearby area called Hart Canyon.
Some people see it. But then the military convoys come in,

(01:43):
they build these one or more concrete slabs. We know
of one of them, and they can't this thing away.
And you know who knows about this? In nineteen forty
eight and nineteen forty nine, nobody this happened under their site.
There was no word about the presence of the military,

(02:03):
no word about a UFO crash. Everything about this case
appears to begin with a nineteen fifty book called Behind
the Flying Saucers by Frank Scully. Now this isn't to
say that Scott Ramsey hasn't found people or people who
knew people who claim to have seen this flying saucer

(02:25):
or spaceship or whatever it was. But as Kevin Randall
pointed out during the interview, the key issue here is
that the record doesn't predate the Scully book, which possibly
polluted the information pool. The local newspaper had nothing about it. Now,
Ramsey says, this newspaper was kind of like a shopper,

(02:47):
you know, local merchants and ads and everything. But I
assure you if anything that important occurred, any local newspaper
I know about would have something about it, and they didn't.
What's your take on this, Chris.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Well, yeah, and I agree, And that's something I kept
bringing up throughout the episode is do we have any
evidence that predates the Scully Book?

Speaker 4 (03:11):
And that, to me is really important for the Ramses.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
To establish something anything, some sort of evidence chain that
goes back before the first known mention of it, and
I think until they do that, it's we're just going
to have a standstill in terms of any sort of
forward motion, forward progress on ascertaining the reality of the
Aztec Crash. To be honest with you, Gene, I've always

(03:37):
whenever I heard Aztec over the last twenty five years,
however long I've been interested in this subject, I always
had the feeling that there was really nothing to it.
I think the Ramses have some pretty compelling evidence to
suggest that something happened, But again, until we can really
determine some sort of evidence prior to the Scully Book,

(03:58):
I think we're going to be spinning our wheels with it.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
What can I say? This is one of those problems
where we can be talking till the end of time
and we're dealing with an event that happened sixty five
years ago.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
Yep, it's time. The clock has tiken on it.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
So well, the clock is already ticked off and the
alarm bells are rung. So what does someone like a
Scott Ramsey do today? But I think the real issue
is here, if such a thing really happened, would it
be possible to cover it up in a way that
nobody in the community would know about it?

Speaker 3 (04:34):
That would be really difficult to do, especially back then
everything that happens, and coming from a small town in
Colorado after thirteen years, I can tell you that it's
really difficult for something major like that to occur and
not have any sort of word get out. You know,
you have just down the road from Aztec. We're going
to be talking about that, this particular area of New Mexico.

(04:58):
There's a lot of interesting things that have gone on
over the years, and there is a lot of evidence
in people, witnesses, in actual documentation that we can go
to to ascertain the reality of some of these rumors
and reports and other things, as we talk about later
here on the show. But again, I think it would

(05:19):
be almost impossible for something that big to have all
that type of equipment move through a small town, even
at night, without somebody taking notice and start poking around
trying to find out what's going on. Small town folks
tend to be like that. They tend to be very protective,
They tend to be very curious and very alert and
aware of their surroundings and things that are going on.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
So is there a point where someone like a Scott
Ramsey has to say, well, this is the best I
can do and we can't go any further. Because a
lot of the book is devoted not to presenting evidence
of the case, but to resurrect the reputation of Frank Scully,
Leo Jebauer, or however you pronounce it. I don't care

(06:01):
and Silas Newton, because if you don't do that, there
is no credibility whatever that you can attach to this.

Speaker 5 (06:07):
Case, right exactly.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
And I think one of the things that I found
very compelling was the Denver sting operation that was set
up to try to get the photographs, and that the
government got involved. I think that's very interesting, and I
think the Ramseys should try to dig into that particular
scenario of the guy offering to sell photographs and then

(06:31):
being set up by the cops.

Speaker 5 (06:32):
And then, you know, I.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Didn't really I don't feel that there's enough resolution on
how that story played out, and it'd be really interesting
to see some more information if they could somehow dig
it up.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Well, it all goes back to the beginning.

Speaker 5 (06:46):
Though.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Did a UFO crash at Aztech, New Mexico. It's not
something I think we'll ever be able to prove. Now,
it's a very different case with Roswell because in Roswell
there was newspaper coverage. Yes, they first said it was
a flying saucer, then it was a balloon, but there
was coverage. People were involved, people knew about it. So
whatever answer or solution you ascribed to Roswell, is it

(07:10):
a test aircraft, is it a UFO, is it a
balloon of some sort, whatever, it is, an event occurred,
something happened that can be demonstrated with eyewitness testimony, with
documents of the period. There's no paper trail for ASTech
that precedes Frank Scully's book. So there you go.

Speaker 5 (07:31):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Chris has just gone. As a matter of fact, I
see him just traveling farther and farther away. Now I'm
not saying there was no Aztec crash or landing or
whatever the heck it was. I'm just saying, is that
the trail, as far as I can see, is pretty cold.
And at the same time, though, it's not as if
the Ramses are trying to play a game to make money,

(07:55):
because as far as I can tell, Scott Ramsey is
a successful business person. He doesn't need the money. If
he spent, as he says, half a million dollars to
investigate Aztec, he'll never get that money back. Clearly he
had money to burn. Clearly he didn't feel the loss

(08:15):
of that money. Clearly he's dedicated to what he's doing.
If he's on the right path, maybe he'll come up
with something. I'm just skeptical, but I also I am
concerned about people who think he's being deceptive, who think
he is slippery as an eel. Now he knows his stuff, Well,
you can't see that he's being deceitful.

Speaker 5 (08:35):
Yeah, you've got it.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
I don't think that you can, in all fairness, question
his motivations. I think he's very passionate about the subject
and has done a really good job at least uncovering
the amount of amazing amount of information that he has uncovered.
But you know, it doesn't really matter until we can it.
Keeps it sound like a broken record. We need to
ascertain something anything prior to the skill.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Okay, but we have something here today that has more
authority to it. I'm quite sure. Oh yeah, Oh, this
is gonna be a fascinating interview.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Now they're surrounded by some of the most gruesome photographs
I've ever seen, stacks of police reports, amazing evidence, physical
evidence found at the relations sites.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
So this is gonna be a very interesting show today, Gene.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Okay, So we have Greg Valdez and he is the
son of Gabe Valdez, a New Mexico State patrolman, and
he has a new book out called Dulcy Bass, The
Truth and Evidence from the Case Files of Gabe Valdez.
A lot coming up here, and this is an on

(09:43):
the scene broadcast. Chris and Greg are right there in
a special makeshift studio with Gene and Chris. You're in the.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
We'd like to hear from you. If you have a
comment or question about the Paracast, send it to news
at the paracast dot com.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
That's news at the.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Paracast dot com, and don't forget to visit our famous
Paracast community forums at forum dot theparacast dot com.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
With Gene and Chris and Chris on location in New Mexico, Albuquerque,
Right yep, right, okay, on location with Greg Valdez. And
just to give you a brief on this, Greg is
author of a book called Dulcibas The Truth and Evidence
from the Case Files of Gabe Valdez, and Chris is

(10:44):
also gathering information for his new book called Stalking the Herd.
So you all came together. So, Chris, how did I'm
going to start interviewing you and then you can interview
Greg there. How did you get involved with the Valdez
and also this particular book.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
Well, Gene, My involvement actually stems all the way back
to the early nineties when I met Greg's father, the
Gabe Valdez, who at the time had just I think
was just retiring as a New Mexico State patrolman.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
He was based in the Dulci area.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
He actually grew up in Trauma, which is the next
town to the west of Dulcet and in.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
Reo Rebo County.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
And Gabe, of course knew Tom Adams, David Perkins, Linda Howe,
Howard Burgess, a lot of the people that I had
initially approached to get myself up to speed about the
unexplained livestock death phenomenon, and Gabe was very, very helpful.
I found him to be very credible, a crack law

(11:51):
enforcement officer, a good investigator. He gave me all sorts
of great tips how to do things, how to interview
people properly, and and I was very grateful for that
sort of help and suggestions and instructions on how to
really maximize my potential as an investigator out in the field.
And through the years, you know, Gab investigated I don't know,

(12:15):
dozens of calimulation cases in the mid mid to late
seventies into the eighties. He was really at the forefront
of one of the hardest hit areas ranching areas in
the country, especially around the Gomez ranches outside of Dulci,
and Greg as a kid used to accompany his dad

(12:36):
on some of these investigations and was actually present at
some very very i would say, almost historic cases that
we have documentation on. And Gabe was a meticulous documentary
and he kept copies of all his files, hundreds of photographs.
He actually found physical evidence at sites including tripod marks,

(12:59):
gas masks, radar chase. We're going to get into all
these things as we progress through the show. But what
I'd first like to do is get Greg to tell
us a little bit about his background, how he really
developed an interest enough to accompany his dad on some
of the trips, and give us a little just a

(13:19):
kind of a sense of how he really got cooked
by this whole thing. So, Greg, welcome to the paracast.
Why don't you go ahead and kind of give us
some background on yourself and explain how you got involved
with all this for our listeners.

Speaker 5 (13:33):
Out there, Well, first of all, thank you guys for
having me. I appreciate being on the show. Give you
a little bit of background. Like you mentioned earlier, I
used to accompany my dad on all these cases growing
up as a kid. It's pretty interesting to see all
these strange lights, jet cows. You know. That might be
kind of gross for some people, but I used to
ride around with him. As I got older, I became

(13:55):
a state police officer, and following the footsteps of my
dad and then she became, I am a DEA agent.
I'm retired from DEA, so I followed a career in
law enforcement like my father. As I mentioned earlier, but
it's always something I've been interested in. Dulce was a
hot spot for a lot of things, especially the redulations.

(14:16):
Of course, the story that Dulce base came out later,
but even UFO sidings was a hot topic for Dulcy.
And it seems like we had anyone and everyone that
was an expert in the field would end up at
our house in Dulcey, And just by luck of the
draw my dad being involved, I got to meet a
lot of the top investigators that have been in this

(14:36):
field for what's going on forty years now. So it's
just an interest I've always had, and me and my
dad it was something we always talk about when he
was alive, and we'd always compare notes on news stuff,
old stuff and whatever it was developing.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
Well, you have a new book out, and I really
must say first you know at the top of the
show here that I really appreciate the amount of work
that it went in went into getting this book completed,
and it's filled with some very surprising things in there.
I've already learned a lot just by reading it and
getting a better sense of your dad's thinking. Of course,

(15:12):
your dad was kind of handcuffed in the latter years
of his investigative work wise his affiliation with the National
Institute of Discovery Sciences, and we'll get into that too
later on the show. But what was your impression as
a kid when you were going out in the seventies
on some of these columulation cases. What was your sense
of this? Did you think that we were looking at

(15:33):
predator damage? How are the ranchers responding to this? There's been,
obviously over the years a lot of controversy about what
is causing these animal deaths. I think just by looking
at some of the files and photographs that you've showed
me here, I think we can pretty much rule out
predators when you have an animal that's been one whole
side has been baked by microwaves. I don't think coyotes

(15:55):
have bad breath, but not that bad. So why don't
you give us a sense of what it was like
as a kid going out there.

Speaker 5 (16:00):
Well, like you mentioned earlier, my dad was very meticulous
and is in his investigations, and that included murders, rates,
whatever the case. That was his job. He loved his
job and he was good at it. He also applied
that to the calimulation. Some people might have viewed this
as just merely a dead cow. But when you think
about it, it was pretty groundbreaking that they had a
retired scientist, Howard Burgess, come and start documenting scientific evidence

(16:24):
for but most people would just view as a dead cow.
They took it very serious. Now, these ranchers, they've been
doing this all their life. They know the difference between
a cow that's been killed by coyotes, predators, whatever the case.
They're not going to call my dad in a panic
back in this day if it wasn't something that they
knew was out of the ordinary. Of course, you have
the Kenneth Rommel story, which kind of muddy the waters,

(16:46):
but it was always apparent that it wasn't predators. They
looked at everything you can think of in the dual
se area, occult group, a local pranksters, so Saint worshippers, aliens,
you name it, but it always start pointing back towards
government or some human entity involved at one point or another.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Well, that's one thing that I noticed your dad when
he was interviewed towards the latter years of his life.
And we did lose your dad, I think in August
of twenty eleven, if I'm not mistaken, which is a
real loss for the investigation investigation community. I must say
he was like a grandfather do a lot of us.
Like I said in the beginning, he was really one
of the top investigators and probably had the most grounded

(17:27):
sense about all this stuff.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
He was very difficult for him to jump to conclusions.

Speaker 5 (17:31):
He would not do that.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
He would let the evidence do the jumping to conclusions
based on the evidence. So, you know, one thing that
he was pretty reluctant to talk about, especially in the
last couple interviews that he did, including an interview I.

Speaker 5 (17:44):
Think he did about a week before he died with
Open Minds.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
It seemed like he was getting ready to come out
and really start pointing fingers. He never really did publicly.
Of course, he did talk to some of us and
it was confidential, so you know, I didn't ever say, well,
you know, see Patomy and Gay Baldez told me this
and that, it's this, that it's that. You know, I
always honored that request for being off the record. But

(18:08):
what can you say now about his thinking. I mean,
he went through three decades almost of investigations and you're
very close to him. Obviously, being the son that was
took the most interest in his extracurricular work as it was,
How could you sum up your dad's.

Speaker 5 (18:24):
Thinking about the mulation phenomenon? Is there a way to
do that?

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Before we have that answer, we have to do our break.
We have Greg Valdez, author of Delci Bass The Truth
and Evidence from the Case Files of Gabe Valdez. You're
on with Gene and Chris.

Speaker 5 (18:41):
You're in the parro gest.

Speaker 6 (18:51):
Hi, this is Don Ecker, and you are tuned into
the parro cast. Let me tell you what you're going
to hear Steph here that you probably I don't hear
anywhere else.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Hear that.

Speaker 6 (19:02):
George Snoring.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
And Chris and the Power Cast. We have Greg Valdez
joining us. Chris asked Greg a lengthy question, as is
Chris's want Greg.

Speaker 5 (19:15):
Your response, well, I know it's frustrating for my dad
because this case he's been involved with it for nearly
forty years before he passed away, and I heard some
of the interviews you were talking about. He couldn't talk
about it because but a lot of people don't realize.
When he was working for the National Institute of Discovery
Science or NIDS out of Las Vegas, they made him

(19:36):
sign a non disclosure agreement, and of course I didn't
sign a non disclosure agreement. When some people laugh, I
don't know if I'll be laughing about that here in
a few months foot. So I knew a lot of
the stuff that he couldn't talk about. He wanted to,
but he just legally couldn't because it would put him
in a bind that he knew better than to mess with.
So that's why I don't want to step on a
billionaire's does No, I don't know. That's just not a

(19:57):
headache I need to deal with. So I knew it
was frustrating because he knew the answer to a lot
of the questions people would ask him, but he just
legally he couldn't say it because he was in a
buying where he couldn't comment on him. It was frustrating
for him because, like we mentioned earlier, he's very meticulous,
and this is one of the cases that has haunted him.
You know, he handled plenty of cases as a state
police officer, and he's to pride himself in solving those cases,

(20:19):
and that was his motivation to solve the relation mystery
and the UFO mystery.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
And Dulci, who did he think was behind it. You
mentioned the government. That's a very one of three theories.
A lot of people think that it's either the government,
it's misidentified scavenger rational Let's say there are a few
cases that could be some sort of cult activity, but
the majority of cases I've always felt had some sort

(20:45):
of government connection to them. Obviously, there's people who look
at the highest strange cases, and there are a number
of them.

Speaker 5 (20:52):
I must say that.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
Camp be explained readily.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
There's been investigators like Linda have who looked at the
highest strange cases and have come up with the theory
that aliens are here for various reasons, gathering cattle parts.
I personally feel that that is the least likely explanation.
But getting back to your dad, I mean, how did.

Speaker 5 (21:13):
His thinking evolve in terms of the government's involvement.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Give us kind of a sense of how the evidence
change just started to stack up and point in that direction.

Speaker 5 (21:25):
How it started is just basic investigative work, which a
lot of people I think have ignored in the past,
is you follow the evidence. You don't create evidence to
make your theories fit. So, especially in this day and
age with the internet, keep in mind, this is the
seventies I don't have the Internet libraries up in Dulcy,
so it was a lot harder to gather this information.
But as time went on he was able to piece

(21:47):
it together from his work with NIDS other associates, people
like Chris Tommy Blan, other investigators that you've been working
with for years. There's a lot of different government agencies involved,
and then there's one main government agency that kind of
basically they give them the money, is what it comes
down to. So you have Department of Energy, you have

(22:08):
the Air Force Special Weapons Lab out of Curlin Air
Force Base, Atomic Energy Commission back in the early days
with the gas Boogie projects. You have your three letter
agencies like NSACIA involved in this through the Paul Benowitz story,
which is documented in the books. So they're all intertwined
and you have to look at history. The easiest way

(22:29):
for me to explain is if you look at the
history of the Nevada test site in Area fifty one
has nothing to do with Alien It's just their basic
operation of how they develop Project Blackbird, and you know
some of these the Stealth Project and these aircraft. It
gives you a good idea of how they operate, how
the agencies are intertwined with each other, and then one
main agency is he just pays the bills and they're

(22:50):
the one that controls it. And if you apply that
thinking and investigative technique towards emulations, this UFO mystery, it
all starts to make and it comes together and there's
plenty of evidence to support it, which is more important.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
So basically what I'm hearing is that it's a multi
agency or it's multiple groups that have some sort of
intertwined agenda. Why do they have a need to mulate
catle though an other.

Speaker 5 (23:17):
Livestock is there.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
Do you think your dad was really came up with
a concrete answer to that? I mean, what was his
his thinking on the government's motivation to do these cases, the.

Speaker 5 (23:30):
Motivation on the from my dad's point of view, in
the early relations they were finding evidence of it looks
like the d is involved were investigating radiation type poisoning.
This ties back into Project Plowshare because of course most
people are aware. Nearby outside of Dulsey was Project gas Boogie,

(23:51):
which was one of these Project Plowshare projects.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
They've had them throughout the nation, and that's I think
it was a twenty nine kill it to nuclear device
that they exploded underground in December sixty seven, if I
remember correctly, just after the Snippy case over the mountains
in the San Luis Valley, they exploded this tactical nuke
I guess underground to free up gas deposits and ended

(24:16):
up irradiating all the gas and the pastor Gas couldn't
even use it, I think, if I remember correctly, So
you think that they were monitoring radiation levels as a
result of that.

Speaker 5 (24:26):
Yes, because like again, once again, there's evidence that shows
the gas buggy site actually had a leak up until
around ninety six, I believe, and they didn't know where
the leak was coming from, and that's one of the
plowshare sites that they did have contamination. Also, they didn't
the contaminated gas. They flared it off, which means they
just burned the gas off, but that doesn't eliminate the

(24:47):
nuclear contamination. That just burns off the gas and the
prevalent winds in that area, the nuclear fallout would have
flown it right into dulc Chalma Raiarriba County. You also
have to test sites like rules in Colorado Trinidad, Colorado,
you saw a lot of mutilation rates in those areas,
also in the San Luis Stall, and I don't think
I need to tell Chris about that. So there was

(25:10):
early ties where it looked like a lot of these
mutilations were used to be testing for radiation type contamination,
and that's why the cattle were being used. Going back
to Nevada Test Site, the Nevada Test Site had their
own herd of cattle that they were testing for these
type of issues. Now I'm not saying that's that specific program,

(25:33):
it's called the Animal Investigative Program, is not the whole
reason for the mutilations, but if you look into that program,
it'll tell you why cattle were being used. Because the
bone marrow of two to three year old cattle was
used to diagnose certain types of cancers, and in dual see,
they were finding that the pattern for the mulated cows

(25:55):
would follow two to three year old cows. So that
started to make sense why a certain age group of
cattle were being found mulated. So the Animal Investigative Program
out of the Nevada Test Site isn't the entity that
you blame for the mulations, but it gives you a
lot of good evidence as why cattle were being used
for these type of experiments and what they were looking for.

(26:18):
So that was the early mulations they were finding in Dulci.
When my dad started working for NIDS in the late nineties,
he noticed mutulations were changing and they didn't have as
many in the Dulce area, but they were having a
lot in Red River, New Mexico, angel Fire, New Mexico,
and it seemed like the pattern of the mulations had
changed for more radiation testing to more of a weapons

(26:41):
development testing, and a lot of it seemed to be
based off of microwave weapons technology.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Well, this works for our neck of the woods out
here in northern New Mexico, southern Colorado, the area around
the Four Corners, let's say, to the four Corners.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
But how about out in the Midwest.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
I mean, do you think that there were similar motivations
out there? Do you tended to have older cows out there,
cows that had just oftentimes had just given birth to
a calf. The front Range of Colorado, very very hard
hit parts of Texas, Kansas, Iowa. Well do you think
the motivations by these let's say a hypothetical government testing program.

(27:26):
Do you think that their motivations were the same out there.

Speaker 5 (27:30):
Yes, it appears so, because in the early mulations they
started correlating the fallout rates from the nuclear testing at
the Nevada test site, and even like the Project Plowshire sites,
there seemed to be a correlation between the fallout that
it was caused by the Nevada test site and the
mutilation rates. They were also testing weather patterns and they

(27:54):
noticed that when the jet stream would dip down into
northern New Mexico, they'd see an increase in mulations, and
in New Mexico when it would move up to like
Montana Idahol, they'd see an increase in mulations up in
that area. So they didn't know if they were testing fallout,
but that was the best indication of to predict when
the next rash of mulations would come in the northern

(28:17):
New Mexico or some nights they'd have four in one night, four.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
In one night. That's the way to stop at Greg
for a second. As we do our break, we'll get
back to that and you can finish your answer. In
a moment. We have Greg Valdez joining Gene and Chris.

Speaker 5 (28:31):
You're in sparicast. This is a start seven, the author
of UFO Mysteries, And you're listening to the paracast.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
With Gene and Chris and the Power Cast. We have
Greg Valdez and we're exploring primarily cattle mutilation. And before
we broke he was in the middle of an answer
to one of Chris's long questions. Greg, you said that
in one night there were four mutilations.

Speaker 5 (29:12):
Yes, that's correct. Raleigh Tafoya, who is actually the tribal
police chief in Dulci, he had four of his cows
killed in one night. So they'd see a lot in
a short period of time, and then they wouldn't have
them for several months, and then they'd have more again,
or they'd moved to another area like Red River or
Trinidad Colorado, or Sant Luis Valley, like Chris mentioned earlier,

(29:33):
the Midwest. They get him up in Montana. Canada had
a lot for a while because my dad actually went
up there and spoke to the Royal Canadian mount of
Patrol about the mulation wave they were having up in Canada.
So they were pretty sporadic. But as I mentioned earlier,
when you look at the fallout rates for a lot

(29:53):
of this nuclear testing, those seemed to correlate with the
mulation rates where they were having a high mutilation rates.
It's nothing solid, but that's the best thing they.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
Were able to determin So David Perkins came up with
a theory very early on that he seemed to notice
areas of high incidents of these unexplained livestock desk tended
to be downstream and downwind of these areas where not
only above ground testing underground testing was a crane, but
also weapons labs where we enriched uranium where we create triggers,

(30:29):
let's say, and the nuclear power plants, any place where
we would utilize radioactive materials downwind and downstream. And he
figured this is in I think seventy eight he came
up with this theory. But Greg you mentioned that there
seemed to be a shift that took place. We did
have sort of a lull period in the end of

(30:51):
the eighties and then it.

Speaker 5 (30:52):
Seemed like all of a sudden down in Alabama. We've
had Ted Oliphant.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
On the show prior to this.

Speaker 5 (30:59):
Down in Alabai.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
He investigated a few dozen cases down there and he
suspected weapons testing. Possibly they were testing some sort of bioagent.
Now when people talk to you about this subject and
they might be a little skeptical. Oftentimes I hear, well,
how can these people pull this off and never have

(31:23):
some equipment breakdown, somebody mess up, so that you know,
these particular perpetrators can be identified. I mean, how can
they be so slick and get away with upwards of
possibly ten thousand cases. That number has been banned around
through the years. I think it might be high. But

(31:43):
what do you think, I mean, how these guys are
pretty slick if they can do this for so many
years and not get.

Speaker 5 (31:49):
Caught, Well, that's one of the reasons that they were
always suspecting either a large pharmaceutical company or the government
or something that's well funded, because it takes a lot
of resources to pull this off. Of course, if you've
been in northern New Mexico, I can't speak for Alabama
where Ted's been at, or some of these places in
Texas that had emulations, but I can speak for Doolcy.

(32:11):
This pretty rugged area and it's pretty remote. There's not
a lot of people where they were finding these cattle,
so it was relative actually easy for them to conduct
the relations up in northern New Mexico because it's so
sparsely populated, and that might be a reason why they
had so many in the area, which is easier to operate.
Then you add that with the proximity to some of
our national labs and Curlin Air Force Base, that makes

(32:34):
sense why they might have picked Doocy and why they
might have had so many in Rearriba County. It's just
it's rugged country. Sometimes those ranchers can get to their
cattle for several days because they get up in the
high country and there's just a lot of people to
view things. So that might be a reason why they
never caught anyone in the act.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
You know, people ask me all the time about cases
prior to the infamous Snippy the Horse case in September sixties,
in all your dad's forays in the area, and of
course living up there, and then you're talking to locals
up there, did you ever hear any stories or of
any cases that happened back in.

Speaker 5 (33:11):
The fifties or early sixties. No, And you'll see the
original story started in seventy six with the Gomez muulations.
They were seeing the weird lights, we call them UFOs.
That's for everyone to determine on their own but those lights,
and they started seeing those around the same time period,
which is seventy six when this whole hot bit of

(33:31):
activity started in the dual See area.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
And also one of the photographs that you have here
is pretty intriguing, your ubiquitous black helicopter shot.

Speaker 5 (33:41):
Helicopters were seen as well, if I'm not mistaken, Yes,
they were pretty common in duel See during this whole
time period. And there's still reports, random reports of people
locals that I've talked to they still see them every
once in a while in the dual See areas. But
that was pretty common. We'd see them all pretty frequently,
almost as much as the mysterious lights that we were

(34:01):
seeing at night.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
There were a couple of cases too, if memory serves
me correct, where your dad found physical evidence on the
site in one case, in particular tripod marks and also
other physical evidence, which is if you know anything about
this subject, you know that finding physical evidence at a
mulation site is extremely rare. It does not happen very often.

(34:25):
Even just simple things like tracks are often never found. Well,
why don't you talk a little bit about some of
the physical evidence that they were able to find out
sites being a very good investigator. If there was something there,
your dad would be able to find it. And I
see pictures, say of a gas mask. That's that's a
pretty interesting story.

Speaker 5 (34:45):
Actually three of the mulations. Two of them were two
separate Gomaz mulations, and one of them was a mulation
up in Red River in the late nineties. The two
Gomas ones were early, one was in the seventy six
the first mulation, and one was I believe seventy eight.
They found evidence of what looked like tripod marks. They
were exact same dimensions. I think they were like eighteen

(35:07):
inches apart and nine inches or six inches why I
don't quote me on the exact dimensions, but they found
them on three different mulation sites. On the first Gomez site,
when Manuel first found his cow, he noticed those tripod marks.
He went back into town to call my dad, and
when they went out the next day to look at
the cow, there was more tripod marks on top of

(35:28):
his tire tracks from the day before. So it looked
like whoever whatever was killing his cow went back and
finished the job. And when he first found the first cow,
I think it was the left ear was still intact.
When he went first initially found the cow when he
went back into town again to call my dad. When
he came back, that ear was missing, so someone had

(35:48):
to come back and finished the mulation for lack of
a better term, and they landed on top of his
tire tracks, and from those tire tracks, some smaller marks
went to the cow, and it looked like that it
had followed the cow where the cow finally died and
laid on its side, and it looked like the aircraft.
We're assuming it's an aircraft because of the technology. It

(36:11):
landed on a stump and it almost tipped over when
it landed from the impressions that it left it in
the dirt. So that was one of the things that
Howard Burgess and my dad started looking at when they
first got involved in this. On a later relation at
the Gomez ranch, this was actually behind his house, they
found the same triangular impressions in the dirt, and it

(36:33):
was that time of the year's drought, kind of like
what we're going through now, where whatever left those impressions
had to be heavy enough to mark the dirt because
the dirt was so dry and compact you throw them
from the lack of moisture. And then in the Red
River case. It was muddy that time of the year,
and whatever aircraft landed, it almost crashed into a fence
because it looked dry when you look at the pictures,

(36:56):
and what happens when the aircraft landed almost slid into
a fin because whoever was driving that, that's suf to
whoever to decide what was driving it. They kind of
misinterpreted how soft the ground was, and it had the
same dimensions as the early mulation cases from the Gomez Ranch,
and this was that Red River, so it seemed like
they were using the same type of aircraft. And also

(37:17):
in Lenderith, New Mexico in the eighties they found, oh,
my dad found evidence for there was turbine wash just
that time of the year. For whatever reason. There's moisture
underneath old pieces of sage brush, and you could see
whatever came in had started up with the turbulence. We
were able to measure and it was exactly the same
distance for the aircraft, whatever aircraft it was, whether it's

(37:39):
a helicopter, magic ship, came in and it turned up
all these old cal patties in pieces of sage brush,
and then you could see where it went back up
into the air and there was no more turbulence. There's
a lot of that type of evidence.

Speaker 4 (37:53):
How about the gas masks A good one.

Speaker 5 (37:55):
The gas mask was found on one of the Gomez mutilations,
and they also found a high altitude the humidity sensor
that they were able to trace back to the Air
Force and those were found on the Gomez ranch as well,
and that's where they found the radar chef in my
same cheft right never got that was also found out

(38:16):
of one.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Of the Gomez reulations. You know, why don't you explain
about the radar chaff? That's very interesting. That's pretty rare
to find this stuff in not just spread out and
distributed and around like they normally when they shoot it
out the back, it sort of flares out and then
creates a cloud. You guys found packages of this stuff.

(38:36):
Why don't you tell us about that was.

Speaker 5 (38:38):
At the location of one of the I believes immunity
cow might have been the horse. I'd have to look
at the reports. But the aircraft that was trying to
disperse this radar chaff in malfunction because the packages were
still wrapped in cardboard and it was just showing Chris earlier,
I still have the wrapping from it. You could see
the flight line that the aircraft took and it went
straight to the cow and just simply walk down in

(39:01):
a street line. And we were finding these packages of
the radar chat.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
I'll tell you what. We'll get into more of this
description in our next segment. We have Greg Valdez joining
Gene and Chris and we're trying to put a real
reality check on the cattle mutilation phenomenon. With Gene and Chris,
you're in the percast.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Welcome back to the Para Cast, the gold Stabdard of
Paranormal Radio. And now here's Jane Steinberg.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
With Gene and Chris and the power cast Greg Valdez
giving us elaborate, very informative and informed descriptions of all
these events. Very frightening and you were in the middle
of one answer there and I wanted you to continue
that story.

Speaker 5 (40:02):
And going back to the radar schaf what we were
talking about earlier. They tested the frequency of the radar
shop and it was tied to long Long Colorado. People
are under the what do.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
You mean test the frequency?

Speaker 5 (40:13):
How do you do that? This is like the metallic
kind of like angel air or something.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
We call this in Brooklyn metallic Schmutz. This is metallic Schmutz.

Speaker 5 (40:24):
My dad, me and my dad. That people knew him.
He had a lot of contact. So they had a
contact with the Air Force and they told him they
found this radar chat person. They want to go on
the record and say, well, where did you get it.
That's stuff's classified, you're not supposed to have it. So
they did some analysis for him on the side and
they were able to determine which frequency it was designed

(40:45):
to block. It was designed to block the long Man
Colorado radar station, which covers Gool. Most people assume because
Goole Sea's in New Mexico, that Albuquerque radar station would
be the one that would the frequency would be applied
to that, But it was actually long And that made
sense because Dulci is so close to Colorado, and that
was the radar station they were trying to block.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
So why are they doing this just for testing?

Speaker 5 (41:09):
Yeah, just whatever they were aircraft testing they were doing
up there was to cover either their tracks or mulations themselves.
And when you get into the story the Dulce base,
which we'll get to later, that's a whole other can
of worms. We're just barely in the beginning of it
now with the cattle. But this is what was the

(41:29):
early stuff of Dulcey was of all this military implications,
like I said, the immedity sensor, the gas mask they
were finding evidence of. In some cases they found syringes
I believe, not in Dulce but in other cases. And
Chris probably knows more about that than me because that
was a more of a nation widening so well.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
I mean, there's just a handful of things that have
been found at relation sites. They found a satchel, like
a military issues satel and I think there was a
scalpel and a I was here if.

Speaker 4 (42:01):
I remember correctly, that was founded aficing.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
Welder, Logan County on the Front Range about the same
time of the Dulcie initial Dulcie cases in seventy six,
but possibly seventy five. But this is, like I said,
this type of physical evidence is extremely rare. Occasionally you'll
get evidence of prop wash. I had a couple of
cases in the seventies where it appeared a helicopter and

(42:26):
sat down the downdraft from the rotors had flattened grass.
And you know, an area that was approximately the size
of the prop washer of helicopter. So these types of
you know, hints of evidence, if you will again, are
pretty rare. But this is all before, you know, and Greg,
you brought the Dulce base up. This is all before

(42:48):
the initial stories started to come out about the Dulci base,
partially through the Paul Benowitz saga, which we've talked about
on the Paracast a number of times. We've had great
Bishop on of course he will the book Project Beta,
which is probably the most in depth looked at that case.
Phil Schneider has been mentioned because the Tilton others who

(43:08):
are involved in the early days of the rumors of
the Dulce basement.

Speaker 5 (43:11):
What did your dad think about that?

Speaker 3 (43:13):
I know he was pretty skeptical about a lot of these,
you know, more fantastic claims. Anthony Sanchez, for instance, says
he has a colonel that claims there as an alien
base under there. Where did your dad come down on
all that? And how about you, I mean your law
enforcement too, I mean you know the area pretty well.

Speaker 5 (43:32):
So well that brings up a good point. We were
talking about evidence found at the mulations. Well, my dad
never ruled out that they weren't placing that evidence there
to throw off invest years. He was that meticulous. So
now I'll get into the Dulce based story. We lived there,
We saw everything that happened there. So when Paul Dinowitz
first came out with this story of a Dulce base,

(43:53):
they kind of shrugged in. My dad kind of just
shrugged it off, but he looked into it, and he
did that with everything, whether it's so weird a solid theory,
he nitpicked it, and that's what you have to do
as an investigator. The key to the Paul Benowitz story
is he showed up with five black and white photos
and four of the five didn't show anything except for one.

(44:15):
And even the one a photo shows what he says
is a crash deltaship. Now a crash UFO, not a
crash alien ship, just a deltaship. Well, lo and behold,
my dad and John Gilly, Edmund Gomez, some other investigators
went up and they found that crash site. So basically,
Paul Benowitz would give my dad information that was about

(44:37):
eighty percent correct, and my dad was kind of amaze
where he was getting it from, because Paul wasn't from
We lived there, and he would come up with stuff,
and he was accurate. And to help people figure this
out because there's so much confusion and there's so much
junk floating around about dulcibase, the eighty percent that was
correct is everything pretty much Paul Benowitz said it, with

(44:59):
the exception of eighty so you take the alien part
out of it, and Paul was pretty much spot on
his information. Of course, we found out later through Greg
Bishop and some other resources where he was getting his information,
which was the Air Force. But he was accurate with
a lot of his stuff, with the exception of aliens.
So that's what started the whole Doolecy base. Of course
people have added to it. For me, it's easy. I've

(45:21):
read some of the stuff. Colonel X. I knew that
was bogus about a page into the story, just because
I had lived in the area. I knew that the
story wasn't right. Plus I know the Paul Dinoit story
because I met Paul. Paul wasn't crazy. A lot of
people have kind of mis represented him as being crazy.
He was actually a sharp guy. He was a lot
like my dad. He's also very meticulous in his research also,

(45:42):
so they put a lot of hard work in a
lot of hours. But that's where the Dulcy base started,
was through Paul and the Air Force, But the mutilations
the UFOs sidings Up and Dulcy were going on before
Paul ever got involved in the stories. Looking at this
whole kind of I don't know.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
It's almost a a myth that's grown up about this
particular subject of a base Adulce.

Speaker 5 (46:05):
Some of my digging.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Has uncovered what could possibly be irrationale to have a
facility there, and because of Gas Buggy, which we discussed earlier,
which did introduce radiation into the area. One theory has
it that they went ahead and built an underground facility
there to store nuclear waste because there was already elevated
levels of radiation in the area and they could hide

(46:28):
it easier, and that the alien base story placing this
facility under Archiletta Mesa was actually a red herring to
a facility that was under Mount Archiletta.

Speaker 4 (46:41):
Have you heard anything along those lines, Yes.

Speaker 5 (46:44):
And that's actually probably a pretty good theory, but it's
just some we haven't been able to prove yet, and
we're looking into it because they're also looking at the
cancer rates are very high in that area. Of course,
knowing something improving something for two different things, unfortunately, But
when people are chasing aliens, they're not focusing on what's
right in front of them, and that's a more realistic

(47:04):
approach on what was really happening. There's something up there,
now people want to assume it's aliens. There's never been
proof of ailing any type of aliens at the dulc
base or anywhere or anywhere, but there was a lot
of military activity. It came from the military. They actually
devote their own secrets and they made a mistake giving
that information to Paul. You got to go over the

(47:26):
evidence followed takes you, and it takes you to certain
parts of it and filtering it is the hard part,
and that's what the purpose of the book was, to
get people back on track and get them looking where
they should be looking, because if there is contamination people,
American people need to know about it. Well.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
I've heard that the area surrounding Dulci has some of
the highest rates of environmental cancers in the nation.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
And there's a scientist of both both the doctor that you.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
And I both know, who's working very quietly and sort
of behind the scenes, working on a service of radiate
above ground radiation levels in the area. How much work
have you done looking into radiation in the environment out there,
and what's a progress report on what this doctor has

(48:13):
been doing.

Speaker 5 (48:14):
Actually, I've done a lot of research into it, because
that's more of the story. And I know that kind
of burst of balloon for a lot of people that
want to go find aliens up and we'll see, but
that's the reality of what's really a lot of the
stuff that's going on. He's still doing research into it.
I've been doing research. The hard part with this cancer
stuff is if you ask try to gather statistics, you'll
get twenty different answers from twenty different health organizations, and

(48:38):
they're going to blame your lifestyle choices, how much you eat,
how much you dream, where you live. So proving, like
I said earlier, proving something and knowing something or two
different things. And that's been the hardest part. So there
needs to be more research done, and especially the water tables.
That doctor was looking into some of that stuff. Hopefully

(49:00):
we'll keep pushing it forward and we're still looking into
it also.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Well we get into our next segment, I'm going to
want to ask a few questions here. Not to interrupt
Chris because he's doing an interview for the show in
the book, but a few questions about the rumored alien
connection with all this stuff. Greg Valdez joins us with
Gene and Chris. You're in the Paracast.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
comment or question about the para cast, send it to
news at the paracast dot com. That's news at the
paracast dot com, and don't forget to visit our famous
paracast community forums at forum dot theparacast dot com.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Chris O'Brien is in Albuquerque, New Mexico, at the home
of Greg Valdez, and he's written a fascinating new book
covering the life of Gabe Valdez, who investigated the Dulcibas
stories and cattle mutilations. So, Greg, I want to ask
you here. When people talk of cattle mutilations, invariably there

(50:08):
is that UFO and or alien connections. So what's the
reality check here?

Speaker 5 (50:15):
Well, I like this, if they're connected to aliens, I've
never seen proof of it, so I like to see
someone proof when it's fine if people believe in though
I'm not shooting that down, but there's just never been
evidence of that, especially in the Dulcey area. If people
have evidence, it would be nice to see it, because
it's always been tied into government or humans. If you
follow that trail, it'll take you down a clearly mark

(50:37):
trail from all this stuff I've seen there my dad's
ever gathered.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Now, that's one of the things here that can be
said about probably more than a few UFO sightings that
you can trace it to tests of secret aircraft, some
sort of government efforts. That's not unusual, is.

Speaker 5 (50:53):
It, No? And that's part of the Dulce story the book.
It goes into detail because we're actually able to take
photographs of these aircraft up in the Dulci area. So
in the book, I call it Area fifty two. I
just don't have a better explanation or name for it,
but it seems like Dulcy is just an off site
testing facility for a lot of their secret, the military

(51:14):
secret projects. That's what the evidence points to. And we were,
like I said, we were able to take several photographs,
different photographs of this military technology. It's not alien, it's
just high tech reconnaissance aircraft. The military wants to keep classifying,
and I know it's boring for people, but that's what
it is.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Guys. Can we then see if there are certain offenders
out there who feel it's much better for their agendas
to push the alien connection with all this stuff.

Speaker 5 (51:47):
Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me, because if you
look at the timeline of you talk about Roswell, you
guys were talking about Aztek a little bit earlier. Forty
seven was the key, key year for a lot of
this stuff starts where you got Roswell Project Blue Book,
different crashes, but the aliens are kind of sporadic. The

(52:08):
stories come in in and out, but there's not really
a good timeframe. But if you look at it and
the books documented the technology that's actually been around for
a long time, you can see the military has been
involved with a lot of the secret aircraft technology since
around the same time period. And then it all starts.
The puzzle starts to come together. If you know where
to look and what to look for. If you're looking

(52:30):
for aliens, you're not going to find too much stuff
out there. But if you look for specific propulsion systems
like laser propulsion systems, microwave propulsion systems. It'll get you
back in line on part of a lot of these
potential UFO sightings probably are. And it all fits with
the timeframe of forty seven fifty they were working on
The government was working on these type of we call

(52:53):
them UFOs just because they don't look like conventional aircraft.
But that technology has been around for a while and
there are some smart to work out there, and it's
not all a question for them to develop some of
these aircraft. And we'll see we're able to take photographs
of this high tech aircraft. And this was back in
the eighties. It was invisible and silent. It has nothing

(53:14):
to do with UFOs or aliens.

Speaker 4 (53:16):
Yeahs, describe some of the shots.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
I know your dad was convinced at one point towards
the end of the seventies that lighter than air craft
are being used. Once you describe what you remember, as
you said, it was invisible, but you have photographs that
I'm a little confused on that, plus also microwave and
laser propulsion. I'm a little confused about those terms. But

(53:40):
once you describe some of the craft that we're seen
by people around there, including your dad and yourself, well,
When they.

Speaker 5 (53:47):
First started seeing these lights, they were seeing the common
orange light which resemble what most people will call a UFO.
That's no big deal, so they see it. It disappeared
flying unconventional ways up down sideways from one place to another.
So that's what kind of it was associated with Dulcy.
That's why a lot of these people came to Doolecy.

(54:08):
As time went on, though, my dad was able to
figure out and this was up on non archer leto
where the Doocey base was supposed to be, and this
came from Paul Benowitz. They figured out that if the
camera lens would pick up this aircraft where the naked
eye wouldn't see, and that's part of the camouflage system.
Of course, now if you do research on it, the
government has it. It's currently available. It's somewhat classic. It's

(54:32):
called out optical camouflage. They use led lights to bin
light waves and that's why the camera picks it up
in your eye doesn't pick it up. So we were
My dad stumbled onto it. They were just taking pictures
of the random pictures of the area and when they
would go develop the film. No digital cameras back then,
This is an old fashioned film. These aircraft would pop
up in the photographs and other researchers have also found it.

(54:56):
They don't I don't know if they necessarily know what
they found, but they figured that out in Paul Benoit's
helped get this story going by not story, but he
took my dad to take pictures and a lot of
times it would come out, and sure enough they would
come out. To add to that story. When one of
the photographs that was taking up by Mount Archiletto where
the Dulcy basis supposed to be Los Almost Labs CIA,

(55:19):
a guy with the CIA NSA connection became involved and
kind of took that photo and had it enlarge, and
when he enlarged it, of course we had Los Almost
Labs in large it. You can see the graphic detail.
It's not an alien craft, but it's a pretty high
tech American aircraft. There's where a lot of the secrecy
comes in and the kind of a hot potato, Well,
how much do you want to declassify before you get

(55:42):
in trouble? And it was pretty apparent, and this was
back in the mid eighties. They've had this technology, so
you can imagine what they have now and that's been
the big catching point for a lot of the alien
people is they say, well, we don't know about this technology,
so it has to come from aliens. And that's not
necessarily always the case, because there's a lot of technology

(56:02):
we don't know about just because it's classified. And now
if you go back into research historical stuff, it's very boring.
I'll tell you because I've done a ton of it.
It dates back to the forties, even the thirty five,
nineteen thirty five in some of the early years. So
that's kind of been the big catching point for a
lot of the alien communities. What's weird, We don't know
about it, so therefore it has to come from aliens

(56:24):
and must be aliens. And in my research, my dad's research,
that's not the case. We're able to tie it to
humans and scientists and government projects, is what it comes
down to.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
Well, you bring up an interesting point that your dad
was digging around into, and Paul benoits we're digging around
into areas that were possibly highly classified, and that attracted
the attention I think of some individuals within the government
intelligence community. Why don't you tell us a little bit
about some of the things that were found and houses.
Some of the odd circumstances that happened at the height

(56:57):
of some of this research work.

Speaker 6 (56:59):
Well.

Speaker 5 (56:59):
Greg has documented in his book Project Beta how the
NSA and CIA was involved in a massive surveillance program
on PAULP. Dinnowitz. But they were also monitoring my dad
in the Gomez family because we were able to find
a listening to my dad found a listening device in
our house. The Gomez family found two of them in
their house. They were keeping close tabs. And keep in mind,

(57:21):
we'll see my dad was a police officer up there.
We never locked the doors. We used to leave the
keys in the truck, so it's not it wouldn't have
been that hard to actually break in. We drive out
of town and locks only keep out honest people. Yeah,
but Gomez was a different story, especially after the mulations.
They were cautious and some professionals went in to place

(57:42):
those devices. It wasn't some rinky being job. Of course.
These there were the days of the rotary phones. You
can just heck into it with the computer like you
can now with the digital stuff, but.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
It was harder then because you physically had to tap
the actual wire pointing to your individual connection, we'll have
you work. Yes, indeed, Greg Valdez joining Gene and Chris,
you're in.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
This is Jeroon Clark, author of ufor encycloped in other books.
You're listening to the paracast.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
So the impression I get Greg Valdez on the parent
cast with Gene and Chris is that if we go
back in time, before we had all the digital technology,
it was a lot harder to do all this stuff spying,
tapping phones and all that.

Speaker 5 (58:48):
Yes, you're a hundred percent correct, because the actually have
to physically place the listening devices on the phones. Like now,
you can do it in a computer from Washington or
a thousand miles away and they just hack into the line.
But back then they actually had to place the bugs
on the phones themselves. And like I said, my dad
found one at our house, and the Gomets family found
a couple at their house.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
Give us a time frame on that. And what was
your dad's thinking about that? I mean, what did he
do once he found these devices?

Speaker 5 (59:16):
Well, was around the early eighties, and it's when Paul
Benowitz became involved with Richard Dody in Ernest Edwards. Because
when my dad later came to the conclusion is and
we later figured out just going through like Great Bishop's work,
that Doty and Edwards are actually leaked out too much information.
So they were actually monitoring Doty and Edwards and that's

(59:39):
why they were capping my dad's phone. In manual Gomes
is they were trying to do damage control to see
how far their information had leaked out. And that sounds
like a pretty good assessment from the stuff my dad
had covered.

Speaker 4 (59:52):
Almost Simpson moments.

Speaker 5 (59:53):
I guess, huh when you think about it, the whole
Dulci story was started by the Air Force. They gave
up a lot of their classes fight SU because a
lot of this stuff would still be secret if if
they wouldn't have provided it to Paul Dinowitz. And going
back to surveillance. We were at Paul's house one night
because we used to come down quite a bit and
my dad would visit with him. We stayed there for hours.
We went out to eat at a restaurant and he

(01:00:14):
and he told us he goes that jeep is following us.
I used to remember the color of the jeep the
guy driving it. Sure enough, he followed. They followed us
to go eat dinner, and then we went back to
Paul's house, and they followed us back to the house.
So my dad knew enough about being in law enforcement.
He knew that it wasn't a game anymore because they
found the listening devices. We had people following us around.

(01:00:37):
So but once again, that's nothing to do with aliens.
That just shows you that people are interested in what
he was finding. It wasn't a game. It didn't. He
found out prett quick. It wasn't. They weren't messing around.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
I have a question, Greg, what about freedom of Information Acted?
You or your dad ever send these requests to see
what the government had on file about you too.

Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
No, my dad messed with it a little bit. But
this is a kind of a tip for people to
fry freedom of information that's Act requests because they're not
going to give you stuff they want classify. So if
you send a Freedom of Information Act request for about UFOs,
you're not going to get anything. I mentioned earlier. Do
Freedom of Information Act requests for propulsion laser propulsion system

(01:01:23):
some of this stuff that you think might not be
it's boring, but that's the key to it. Look at
the propulsion systems. You got to look think like an investigator,
don't look at the obvious, ask for things that are
probably declassified now. Of course back in seventy nine eighty
five they were classified still, but now you probably have
a lot easier time getting to hold a lot of

(01:01:44):
these documents. And there's a ton of it out there.
You can get a lot of it just off the
Internet from the DOE websites. They're archives. But if you
do Freedom of Information Act requests, you just got to
know how to request the information. It's knowing what you're
looking for, so hopefully they'll voc will kind of get
you in the area of what to look for and
what to ask forth Soul. But because that opens the door,

(01:02:08):
like Project Aquarius, they had people spinning their whills looking
for documents and if it's really classified, you're not going
to get it anyway, even though they're supposed to get
it to you. But if you have to go through
other angles and kind of go through the back doors,
what you have to do to get good information?

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
You know, you mentioned before that your dad dovetailed some
of his efforts with other law enforcement groups. What did
he learn from the world Canadian mount of Police, because
they did quite a bit of work up there, in
the seventies and eighties, and they did a lot of
forensic testing. What sort of impression did he have of
their effort and what were they finding.

Speaker 5 (01:02:45):
They're basically finding a lot of the same stuff that
he was finding in Dulcy. Their main focus was trying
to get trends or patterns figured out, so they go
try to catch them in the act, which is easier
said than done. But a lot of the stuff mirrored
what was happening in the United States. It just happened
to be in Canada, so they were sharing a lot
of stuff. I haven't looked at it for a while.

(01:03:07):
I have to dig it up and look at it,
so I don't remember all of it off the top
of my memory, but I'd have to dig it up.
But they were finding a lot of this similar stuff.
He also worked with Sheriff Tech's graves up in Logan County, Colorado,
and they were sharing notes, which you don't see that
as being law enforcement. Law enforcement agencies are supposed to
work together, but they do not like they used to

(01:03:28):
in the seventies and eighties. And it's unfortunate because that's
how you share a lot of good information is by
working with these people throughout the country because this headache
is spread out so far that it's hard to coordinate stuff.
Someone in Texas might have a vital piece of evidence,
but if you'd never connect to them, it's hard to
put the pieces together.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Yeah, that's why the efforts of Project Stigma, which was
Tom Adams's effort to be a clearing house forimulation related information,
which as soon as he found doubt a case would
happen in a particular county in the state, he would
immediately contact the sheriffs, send him the information that he
had and put him in touch with other sheriffs and

(01:04:12):
create a network of law enforcement officials who could compare
notes with each other.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
And I have.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Always thought that Dulce was kind of almost a standalone
situation because of the Hickory Apache Reservation there, and I've
always felt that there was something key about the fact
that there was a res there, and some of the
cases in South Dakota as well on the Pine Ridge
Indian Reservation, and normally you didn't see these cases on

(01:04:45):
Indian reservations except for these two. And I've always felt
that there's some clue there for us.

Speaker 4 (01:04:51):
And one thing that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
Some of the naysayers about the mulation phenomena in particular
have said, Greg is that only small kind of family
ranchers reported mutilation cases.

Speaker 4 (01:05:05):
That none of the big, huge cattle.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
Operations in Texas, some of the feed lots in Kansas, Nebraska,
ever reported these cases.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
What do you think of that? Do you think it's.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
Possibly just because of the location that these cases of
these farmers are being ranches are being victimized.

Speaker 5 (01:05:25):
What's you're thinking? What was your dad thinking? Well, going
back earlier, like I mentioned, they were trying to find patterns.
It looked like the Gomez heard was targeted for genetic
reasons that he had been in the area for around
one hundred years. Because the Gomas family founded the town
of Dulcie, they were there before the tribe was there.
They would bring in a thousand head of Mexican steers

(01:05:47):
to the Dulcie area for summer grazing every year. They
never related in the those cattle. So the trend they
noticed in the Dulci areas. Rawley Tafoya is a good example.
His cattle have been around for several generations and you
go back into the the testing of like radiation type issues,
it looked like they were targeting herds that were from

(01:06:09):
the area for a specific reason. It doesn't let's assume
they're doing radiation testing. It doesn't do any good if
you're testing the cow from Texas, it's in the Dulcie
area for two months out of the year and then
they ship it off to slaughter or back to winter range.
You know. So it always seemed the cows that they
would find were indigenous to that area, and that's the

(01:06:30):
pattern that they seem to notice and development. And now
going back to you mentioned the Indian reservations, that might
be a key reason why Dulcy had such was such
a hot spot. Because of some of the research I
did for the book, it looked like it looks like
a lot of the Indian reservations were targeted because if
you look at Yuca Flats, Doolsey is a good example,
a lot of military testing was traditionally done near Indian reservations.

(01:06:55):
China Lakes similar And that's a whole other side is
shut already to get into now, because that's another conversation.
But because it's boring, it's not very fun research. But
if you go down that road, it'll open your eyes.
To a lot of different things where people kind of
tend to get focused on one specific thing and ignore
the little stuff. But the little stuff is what gives

(01:07:16):
you the big picture, and you'll be able to put
the puzzle together a lot easier. They'll get all the
little things.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
A little bit later in the show, we're going to
have a few questions from our listeners of Greg Valdez
as we focus on the wise and whereforce of cattle mutilations.
And one question I'm going to have which Greg can
answer our next segment is in all, how often does
this happen? And is this phenomenon strictly concentrated in the US?

(01:07:44):
Is it worldwide? Is it just specific countries? Interesting to
find out. We have Greg Valdez joining us. You're on
with Gene and Chris. You're in the Barrack Cast. Hi,

(01:08:13):
my name is Richard Dolan.

Speaker 5 (01:08:15):
You're listening to the Power Cast.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
With Gene and Chris and the Power Cast we continue
as we explore Greg Valdez and his new book covering
what's going on in Delca and the work of his father,
Gabe Valdez. But here's a question I posed at the
end of our last segment and that is, how frequent
are these things occurring? Number one, number two worldwide US

(01:08:46):
or just a few countries phenomenon.

Speaker 5 (01:08:49):
I know they had a couple of Missouri within the
last week or two because I saw some news reports.
They've also had some dolphin mulations in the Gulf Coast
fairly recently. They did have some in South America. There
was hot spot there for a while. So it's a
worldwide thing. It's not just limited to the United States.
So there's been reports that I've heard of pretty much worldwide.

(01:09:13):
A lot in South America from what I.

Speaker 4 (01:09:15):
Everywhere in India where cows are sacred, they.

Speaker 5 (01:09:18):
Don't touch them over there. Again, they have McDonald's in India.
Did you know that. I'll go now, Yeah, of course
they don't.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
Serve beef, which is kind of an oxymoron. But in
two thousand and two, Geane we saw a huge wave
of cases, hundreds of cases. Over the ensuing couple of
years two thousand and two thousand and four in Argentina,
parts of Brazil. We've had Philip Oil on the program
from the Animal Pathology Field Unit. In England, they've had

(01:09:49):
numerous sheet mutilations along the Welsh border around Shrewsbury, that area,
mid Midlands England, Midwest England. There have been cases of
livestock death cases reported in Puerto Rico, the Canary Islands.

Speaker 4 (01:10:07):
We've had cases in Africa.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
There have been a number of cases all the way
back to the turn of the nineteenth century. There were
sheet mutilations in Australia. They've had quite a number of
cases over the years down Under. So this is a
worldwide phenomenon which some of the naysayers in terms of
the military theory say, well, what is the US government

(01:10:32):
flying around the world doing all this?

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Well, you know, that's the question I was going to
ask you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Yeah, well, you know, I think it's got to be
some sort of multinational thing. I think there's some sort
of World health organization type organization that's probably behind this.

Speaker 4 (01:10:45):
And I just find it interesting that this sampling.

Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
Team seems to be as Greg has pointed out, there's
some sort of genetic component to them, but there's also
some sort of actual physical location component. It's not always
which particular cows where that particular cow is located in
the environment.

Speaker 4 (01:11:07):
So I think it's a very complicated picture.

Speaker 3 (01:11:08):
I think that there is an effort globally that is
monitoring livestock.

Speaker 5 (01:11:15):
And obviously you would think that the US.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
Would be very very involved at the very top of this,
probably coordinating it. But this is a real sticking point
for any sort of US government sort of scenario and theory.
If it's the government, then we must be flying around
with impunity around the world doing this without ever getting caught,
with no choppers breaking down, with no teams getting spotted.

(01:11:39):
These guys are real slick, and you know, there's just
no getting around that fact. And the more that I
dig into this subject for my new book and reading
Greg's book and revisiting some of the cases, it's just
mind boggling that these people have been able to get
away with this for so long, and looking at some
of these pictures that Greg has, I'm there's no way

(01:12:01):
that predators could microwave a whole side of the side
of an animal so that the meat under the hide
is literally cooked. And that was the one case is
the one that Jerry Valerio, the brand inspector, got so
sick he ended up having to retire.

Speaker 5 (01:12:17):
Correct me if I'm wrong, Yes, that's correct. The ratcher
that had the mulated cow covered it with the tarp.
So when Jerry went to look at the animal, he
lifted the tarp and helts whatever chemicals or toxins were
in the animal. He almost died from it. He got
very sick. It wasn't the good. So to give you
an idea, when my dad started working for NIDS, they

(01:12:39):
would wear full contamination suits when they were good all
these mulation sites. Of course, when he was a state
police he just wears uniform or his coveralls. But he
was kind of a German folk to begin with. My
dad was he was always cautious, and he was always
cautious around these mulations. But if NIDS was putting on
the floe hazmat suits, that kind of us an indication

(01:13:00):
of what you're messing with, or what was in the
cattle or what they were finding. Because Kenneth Romo came
out with his report that kind of did more damage
than anything back in the seventies eighties where he said
the predators were involved, that had nothing to do with
you know, all these veterinarians that he venarians that he
claim to supported his work. But KNIDS came in with

(01:13:21):
a whole different angle and they took it pretty serious.
So if they're taking it serious, and these veterinarians were
starting to sign off on these things and actually putting
their name on documents saying it had chemicals or whatever
the case, that kind of shows you the severity of
what they're dealing with. Because the early seventies, a lot
of these veterinarians wouldn't even touch the mulations. They wanted

(01:13:43):
nothing to do with it because they were worried about
their career, their reputation. They just wouldn't get involved, so
they had a hard time even getting help. My dad
did and text graves up in Colorado because the venarians
wouldn't even touch them, which that of change with NIDS
where they were actually writing reports, which is good. Of course,

(01:14:04):
not everything was disclosed or through NIDS and all the
findings weren't disclosed. At least they were doing quality work
and research on it. But like I said earlier, if
they're putting on bunny suits, I'm kind of using an
indication of what they're doing on Do you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
Know approximately how many cases your dad investigated for NIDS.
I know he did some around the Royal Hondo northally
on north of Tallas, the Red River area. About how
many cases was he sent out on and did he
only exclusively operate in the four corners of the area.
Did they fly in other places?

Speaker 5 (01:14:34):
I'd have to go look at his files specifically. I
know he has at least twenty is a rough guess
from New Mexico. He never did anything outside of New Mexico.
Maybe Colorado. He might have done some stuff across the border,
but he wasn't involved in any of the Utah stuff
that NID was involved in. The AGY send their own
guys up there. They had their own field investigators. So

(01:14:55):
he was kind of the New Mexico connection because he
knew everyone in New Mexico. He was here, so it
made more sense. I think they had another investigator that
handled other parts of the country.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
I'm trying to understand a little bit about this here, Okay,
So it's being done by governments. There may be some
hazardous materials, are waste involved. So the long and short
of it is, why are they doing it?

Speaker 5 (01:15:21):
Well, A lot of the early stuff tend to look
like radiation. A lot of it tend to look like
Biogerman warfare testing also, which I didn't get too earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
Let's start with that now, Okay, Bio germ warfare. Ug.

Speaker 5 (01:15:34):
Yeah, it's pretty nasty stuff. In the part of the
Geneva Convention that bans all these countries from using germ
warfare put exem some from that ban is if they
create non lethal weapons, and that kind of opens the
political door or they don't have to worry about so
much oversight on their research. So then after seeing that,

(01:15:58):
now you start looking at the people involved in needs
in some of this other research. They're all in the
non lethal research too, and that kind of opens up
the doors. And they were finding traces of potential anthrax
testing in some of the early cows. One of the
cows on the southern end of the reservation of Doolsey,
they found the animal that survived the mulation the heroes

(01:16:20):
cut off. The animal didn't die. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
I like to look at what doctor McCoy said, where's
the logic in that? And one of the Star Trek episodes.
Maybe he was trying to channel mister Spock and that
is Okay. If you've got to do testing on cattle,
possibly to see the effects of germ warfare, why would
you do it at random around the world. Wouldn't you
basically set up your own ranch and do it all

(01:16:42):
privately rather than drive people totally nuts, Which is the
impact of what they're doing.

Speaker 5 (01:16:47):
Now, Yeah, that's a common question that comes up. First,
there's a lot of things you're doing with you have
liability issues. If you're the one that created the contamination,
you're not going to go out and admit that you're
the one researching contaminating if you're the one that implemented
it or put it into the community. That's one of
the issues you're dealing with. It's also control control.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
For ranching communities that tend to be more conservative militia
patriot minded. You know, the Well County, for instance, probably
has the highest per capital incidents of militia members up there.
And also if you can introduce things like chronic wasting
disease in the herds of Darren Elk in areas where

(01:17:29):
there's lots of hunters who happen to be militia types.
I mean, the societal control mechanisms can be very subtle,
and the calibulation phenomenon, I think is a multiple agenda program.
You have lots of things dovetailing together. The most common
question I get is, well, hopefully leave the codes.

Speaker 5 (01:17:52):
There well looking at a law enforcement officer here.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
I can tell you right now, if you take the
cots grand theft, if you leave it there, it's plausible deniability,
and everybody scratches their head.

Speaker 5 (01:18:03):
He drags it off to a bone.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
Pile, out of side, out of mind. Most of these
cases aren't reported. I think we're seeing sort of almost
a form of domestic terrorism going on here. We're terrorizing
ranching ranchers, possibly trying to drive small ranchers out of business.
So the big agabusiness the biggest money maker, and agriculture
is beef, by the way, So if you drive out
the little guys, it just makes more move for the

(01:18:26):
big guys.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
And it raises prices as a result. We'll get into
more of this in a moment. Greg Valde's joining us
with Geene and Chris.

Speaker 5 (01:18:33):
You're in the Barah Cast.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
Welcome back to the Para Cast, the gold Staff there
of Paranormal Radio. Oh, here's James Steinberger.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
Okay, with Gene and Chris, we're back at the Power
Cast with Greg Valta's fascinating session covering the legends of
Dulce and also the mysterious cattle mutilations around the world,
and we have a few questions from our audience posted
at forum dotthpowercast dot com in a place we call
the question bank, and when we have enough warning about

(01:19:30):
a future guests, we put in a forum topic or
thread there. So Chris is molling through some of those
questions now, and we'll ask a few.

Speaker 3 (01:19:37):
Chris, Well, the first question here that just popped up
is at the bottom of the question bank thread. Here
is from our longtime listener and poster Blowfish, and he
lists out three questions.

Speaker 4 (01:19:48):
The first one is, did you.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
Greg or your father ever have any strange awareness regards
in regards to unusual sounds at your home such as
power fluctuation, smash an object, et cetera. And did you
both have any severe headaches after ever visiting any of
these locations?

Speaker 5 (01:20:06):
No others.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
I think he wants to know, is there are other
external indications of something weird going on?

Speaker 5 (01:20:12):
To answer that question, we never had any of the
smashing objects fluctuations, but Paul Benowitz did. He always talked
about that. Of course, we know the Air Force was
kind of putting the full court press on him, so
to speak, as far as harassing him, So a lot
of that probably came from the Air Force severe headaches.
Some of the investigators did have severe headaches after one

(01:20:33):
or two of the mutilations. They explained it similar to
radiation sickness, and I think it's in one of the
reports that showed Chris earlier in the police reports. But
that's the only thing they've really the experience up in Dulce.
The Dulce story is weird, the whole thing. But part
of that is there seems to be a lot of
like mind control testing on part of the government, which

(01:20:56):
is a whole other story. So some of the tribal
members up there reported a little bit of it, but
there hasn't been a ton of information on it, just
kind of scratching the surface for It's one of those
things that there was a few reports of it, but
nothing was verified or substance. But you were your dad.

Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
Other than finding listening devices, oh no, you didn't have
any strange kind of poltergeist type things happen, or any
any sort of precognitive dreams or anything that could be
considered sort of paranormal.

Speaker 5 (01:21:24):
Then no, we didn't. No one in our family.

Speaker 3 (01:21:28):
A question I'm sure you've gotten and I get constantly,
is did your dad ever tell you of any reports
of human relations we've done in the way of cattle.
I've heard rumors of a report in ninety four, I
think or ninety five down in Silver City, New Mexico.
Also reports from the Santa Clara Indian Reservation in Arizona.

(01:21:50):
Fairly recently, about four or five years ago. Did he
ever speak of any human cases. He mentioned a couple
of ones that he heard similar to what you explained,
heard the stories, but he never personally investigated them. So
my dad was always he's an investigator.

Speaker 5 (01:22:05):
If he did investigate something, he's not going to pipe
up and say, this is my opinion and this is
what happened. He stuck to what he knew, and he
knew he was aware of some of those stories, but
he never did actually investigate any They didn't have any
Indulsi or Rio Riba or wherever that he actually investigated
some of these other cases, So he didn't get into

(01:22:26):
that depth, but he was aware of it from just
the stories.

Speaker 4 (01:22:30):
Always get those that question.

Speaker 3 (01:22:32):
Of course, Don Ecker, who has a radio show called
Dark Matters, looked into this in the eighties and did
find some evidence from the East Coast from New York
in some cases had occurred. There Again, these are probably
some of the most covered up of all law enforcement
investigations because they're so horrific, and I'm sure they don't
want to scare people. Another question from Blowfish is did

(01:22:55):
you ever see any black triangular craft or encounter any
incident in regards to vehicle anomalies while driving near so
called secret locations or relation sites with whatever.

Speaker 5 (01:23:06):
Yes, and all. I think we talked about this earlier.
Never saw it, but we took pictures of it, and
it's a black triangle anomaly or whatever the case. The
book goes into more detail and explains what it probably is.
But other people in Dulci have also taken photos of this.
They didn't know they were taking photos. They just happened
to stumble upon it. That's why I recommend people, if

(01:23:27):
they're in a hot UFO hot spot where they're seeing
a lot of these sidings, just take random pictures. You
might be surprised what comes up on the film. You
are infrared too.

Speaker 3 (01:23:35):
A lot of stuff comes out of infrared that you
normally don't see.

Speaker 4 (01:23:39):
Here's an interesting question here.

Speaker 3 (01:23:42):
You showed me some very graphic photographs of a very
strange cal embryo or stillborn calf. It was almost full
term by the looks at the picture. What's the full story?
This comes from one of our new well, actually, what's
the name is the cosmono Cosmonaut. Yeah, he's actually been

(01:24:03):
a member for quite a while, but he's only posted
six times. So you brought out one of our lurkers here.
What is the full story about the strange embryo found
in the body of a mutilated cow in the Dulcie area.
That is a very intriguing case. Why don't you give
us some background on that.

Speaker 5 (01:24:17):
My dad got a phone call that they found what
appeared to be a half human, half cow calf. It
wasn't an embryo, it was almost a full bowne animal.
So my dad went up to Braswos, New Mexico, and
that was the areas located. And I believe I have
to look it up. I haven't looked at the information
for a while, but I believe it came out of
emulated cow on a mulated site, on the mute site.

(01:24:40):
So when they took this calf out, it had a
strange looking head. The head was larger and it was round.
It's not the normal cow hit. Nidge did a lot
of testing on it. They just concluded it was a
stillborn calf. But it's up to you to decide it
when Nis reported was accurate or not. A all the

(01:25:00):
stuff that I saw, it was a stillborn cow. They
didn't find anything out of the ordinary, but that's not
my expertise. It was definitely strange. The photos will be
on the website when I get the website up and ready.
You can decide for yourself. Some people claim it looks
like an alien. Some people say it's a dead cow.
So that's one of those that you flip a coin.
It's open to interpretation. But there was never anything as

(01:25:24):
far as evidence. There was never anything solid that was
found to make a conclusion either way of what it
was other than a stillborn calf.

Speaker 3 (01:25:31):
Now I seem to recall I'm not sure if it
was from New Mexico, but I see we recall a
case where a cow was actually in the process of
giving birth to a calf when it was when it
died and was mutilated and the calf half out of
the mother, its job lip had been cut off.

Speaker 5 (01:25:51):
Are you familiar with that case. I've heard the story,
but I don't know the details about it to really
comment on it. I've heard the story before.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
We have some other questions. Here's an interesting one general
question to all. If you could have one yes no
question answered truthfully, what would that question be?

Speaker 2 (01:26:18):
You know, don't ask me that question. You can ask
Greg that question. He's a nice guy, but don't ask
me that question. Chris, I guess would answer.

Speaker 4 (01:26:25):
It one yes no question.

Speaker 5 (01:26:30):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:26:30):
That's that's tough. That's really putting me on the spot.

Speaker 5 (01:26:35):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:26:36):
It would have to be something something to do with the.

Speaker 3 (01:26:44):
Growing fascism in this country and who's actually in charge
and what the agenda is.

Speaker 5 (01:26:49):
It would have to be something along those lines, more
of a.

Speaker 3 (01:26:51):
Social control question as opposed to a paranormal question.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
Now let me ask you, Chris, since we're going to
raise that issue growing fascism, you mean growing corporate control
the traditional definition of fascism, folks. It's not Nazism, No,
it is the corporation's taking control of everything, right.

Speaker 3 (01:27:13):
And it's a real concern to me that we're slowly
seeing the erosion of our liberties, that our current president
is continuing and intensifying the agenda of his predecessor, there's
some very disturbing things. So it would be a political
question that I would have that I would ask.

Speaker 5 (01:27:32):
And want to yes or no answer to. But everything
you know, to our questioner, things aren't black and white.

Speaker 4 (01:27:39):
It's not yes and no.

Speaker 3 (01:27:40):
It's everything in shades of gray, and it would be
a yes but or no but answer. I'm sure regardless
of the question, you could ask something like is there
an afterlife?

Speaker 5 (01:27:51):
Do we do?

Speaker 3 (01:27:51):
We do we go somewhere after we die? I mean
it could be some sort of religious question as well, But.

Speaker 4 (01:27:58):
Again I don't know. I think that's I'm an unfair
on the spot.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
You know that's good. I enjoy this. I enjoy watching
others be put on the spot. I don't let people
put me on the spot for a simple reason, and
that is I have the control panel. So if the
question is asked and I don't want to answer, my
voice disappears and there is music, and that's how it goes.

(01:28:23):
I don't want to get into more of that. We
have Greg Valdes joining us the subject Dulcy Strange Mysteries,
cat of Mutilations, and so much more. With Gene and
with Chris, You're in.

Speaker 1 (01:28:46):
comment or question about the para Cast, send it to
news at the Paracast dot com. That's news at the
Paracast dot com. And don't forget to visit our famous
Paracast community forums at forum dotthparacast dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:29:07):
On the Paracast with Gene and Chris winding down the
last three segments, any more questions from the question bank
before we proceed.

Speaker 3 (01:29:14):
Yeah, there's a number of them, and we only had
a couple of days really to get the question bank up,
and we actually regenerated a number of questions.

Speaker 4 (01:29:23):
This will be a very popular show. It's a real
timely subject.

Speaker 5 (01:29:26):
Your book is.

Speaker 3 (01:29:26):
Coming out at a really good time, I think, and
I do urge everyone to go to Greg's site and
order yourself a copy right now. It's available electronically. This
one comes from Steve c this question. First of all,
he says, Chris, the show will go down as one
of the best in the history of the Paracast.

Speaker 4 (01:29:42):
Just the feeling I have and I agree this is
a real fun one for me.

Speaker 3 (01:29:46):
Please ask Greg if he remembers his dad investigating any
other paranormal anomalies beside UFOs and cattle mutulations and adults
surrounding areas. And also did he personally see or hear
about any strange animal orbs or hauntings.

Speaker 5 (01:30:02):
It's a good question. Well, if the Indian culture religion,
the stories about skinwalkers are prevalent. I've never seen them personally,
but that's just part of growing up on an Indian reservation,
so locals will talk about that all the time. What's
interesting in your question, which I like a lot, is
the question about the orb because in the book, I
have pictures of what might be one of these orbs,
whurse it's not conclusive. We're never able to determine what

(01:30:24):
it is. But these orbit type lights that they were
seen around the Skinwalker ranch, they would also seen around Dulcie.
One of the tribal game and fish officers saw one
hovering over some cattle and horses back in the seventies,
and it looks like one of the malfunction and may
or may not have been able to find one of
these orbs. Like I said, the jury is still out
because there's not enough testing that's been concluded on it.

(01:30:46):
But no pictures of it are in the book and
it'll be on the website so you can decipher yourself
if it's an orb or just a crystal ball, because
that could it could also be that too. Well.

Speaker 3 (01:30:56):
One thing, when I was up at the noriel O
Kayakawa's first Dy'll say, you know, I investigator's conference for
lack of a better term, which I invited myself to
on my dad. I was kind of surprised he didn't
ask me up there, so I had that pashion of party.
One of the things that I was told up there,
quite much to my surprise, This was by a kid
that was at the desk of the best Western there

(01:31:17):
and as everybody else was breaking for lunch, I was
packing up some gear and he happened as an aside,
say I tell you about the little guy's the little
Harry Dwarfs. I said, what are you talking about, and
he goes, yeah, that's that's the thing that people see
the most of around here. And there's even footage it
was taken at the old casino before they moved it,

(01:31:38):
of these little guys jumping around on hoods of cars,
jumping from car to car, and that they had gotten
this footage of this, which I really have made quite
an effort to track down and I do believe it
that it exists, it's just difficult to come up with
the right person to go to for it. Have you
or your dad heard anything about small harry dwarves that

(01:31:59):
are seeing routinely even in town around.

Speaker 5 (01:32:02):
That's actually one of the common stories around Dulsey. Like
I said, a lot of it's based on their Indian religion.
They're not caves, but they're little holes in the sides
of the hills rocks. That's one of part of their
traditional Indian religion. Is it these dwarfs or whatever lived
in these rock out croppings, So you have to interview
the person that saw him to determine what they really saw.

(01:32:24):
But that's a pretty common belief of a lot of
the tribal members ind.

Speaker 3 (01:32:29):
So something like that wouldn't be reported to the state police.
Your dad wouldn't go out on a hairy dwarf report
unless maybe they were trying to buger one of the
sheep or something. I would imagine that's not something he
routinely was having to investigate them.

Speaker 5 (01:32:42):
No, unless the dwarf was beating up his wife or something,
then maybe he'd be out there. But he heard stories
about that, but it's nothing he really investigated. It was
just what about bigfoot?

Speaker 3 (01:32:54):
I know Hawayite Vollardi, who was head a DPS up
there for many years, claims that he went out on
over a hundred cases over the years, including a pretty
interesting siding he had at real close quarters with a
big foot that went over his barber our fence like
it was just a slight step over it.

Speaker 5 (01:33:11):
We've never seen any big foot signings up and Douse.
I know how it's kind of the expert on that field.
I talked to him a couple of weeks ago when
I was up in Gulcy for the book signing and
we talked about it a little bit. But I grew
up there till I was pretty much finished high school
sophomore in high school, and I used to do a
lot of hunting when I was younger, and I know
that points ranches. I've been through his ranch several times,
but I've never seen anything to my dad never came

(01:33:33):
across anything. They used to patrol for. They call it
drip running. People used to still un refined gas from
the oil wells and they used to patrol on the
boonies for lack of a better term, and my dad
never saw anything like that. But Poits don't want to
talk to if you like Bigfoot, because he's supposed to
be the expert in utlesuit about that.

Speaker 4 (01:33:49):
Hey, let's see, we got some other questions.

Speaker 3 (01:33:51):
This one comes from our mister Dependable Award, who's been
long time poster and listener here.

Speaker 5 (01:33:56):
At the forum doctor paracast dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:33:58):
He asked a question about Benowitz, with which we've covered
and I don't think he's asking if you ever saw
the strange balls of light in Paul's house. I don't
think he did. He would have mentioned it. Did you
or your father ever see those injection marks on Paul?
He said he was receiving from the aliens. Did Bill
Moore ever relate to you or Gay that he was
covertly working for the Office of Air Force Special Investigations AFOSI.

Speaker 5 (01:34:24):
As far as the injection marks with them, We never
saw any specific injection marks. We saw like blotches on
his skin, but we didn't know where it came from.
He's the smoke a lot too, so we don't know
if it was just hygiene injection marks, whatever the case is.
So he did have I guess a rash sores, whatever
the case may be, but nothing specific that showed injection marks.

(01:34:44):
As far as Bill Moore, no one knew about Bill
Moore till after the fact, till he went to Las
Vegas and announced it to the conference. So at that
time period, my dad didn't know who he was working for.
He was in contact with him, of course, because they
were all in contact with each other, but he wasn't
aware that Bill was tied with the Air Force at
that time until after the fact.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
Having learned what Bill Moore was doing, what he was
up to, what was his reaction, what was your reaction?

Speaker 5 (01:35:10):
It all comes together. That's what the book is for,
because that's pretty much a big chunk of the book
is just explaining how these different stories. Of course, hindsight
is twenty twenty now it makes sense now, but during
the middle of it, no one knew who was doing
what to whose dog because there were so many different
stories going on. Now it all comes together, and that's

(01:35:31):
put the books for it to put the puzzle together.
In the meantime, people have spun off some of these
stories and a lot of it's just it's flat out junk,
is what it is. And they've added stuff. So this
hopefully gets people back in line where they can see
what really happened, because it's an important story and a
lot of it is true, but you don't know what
is true and what's not before you kind of make
up your own mind. And people saw the option to

(01:35:53):
make their own decisions after they read the book, depending
on what they view as evidence or not view as evidence.
They'll get an act story of what really happened from
someone that was really there, not someone that just kind
of packed together stuff on the Internet or threw in
a bunch of comments, which is pretty common with the
Dulci stories.

Speaker 3 (01:36:10):
There's probably more kind of myth and legend around the
whole Dulcet scenario empractically any other subject in upology especially,
but in the paranormal, some of the stuff that's out there.
Anthony Sanchez, we had him on the show. It was
a bit of a train wreck, I must say. He
really believes that this guy is the real deal, but
his DD two fourteen doesn't pass Muster and there's some

(01:36:32):
real problems with it. What did your dad think of
all these crazy Dulcet stories and did he think that
there was the possibility that this was planned this information
or did he think it was just a lot of
want to believe types of spreading rumors and stories.

Speaker 5 (01:36:48):
Well, part of an investigation you have to look at everything,
whether you want to look at it or order whether
you like it, and that's part of it. You have
to talk to all of them. And he would take
it with the green of salt. He just had a personality.
He liked talking to people. He knew a lot of
it was disinformation. He also had some crazy people come
to the house. Yeah, he threw a guy out of
our living room because the guy threatened my dad and

(01:37:08):
my dad used to fight all the time as a
state police officer. That's like the worst thing you could
have ever done, and you threatened him, so my dad
actually tossed him off the front door. So you don't
ignore it. You at least listen to it, and then
you can filter it or ignore it later, or put
it in the back in the file cabinet because it
might come up later.

Speaker 2 (01:37:24):
With Greg Valdaz and Jean and Chris, you're in the
para cast.

Speaker 6 (01:37:35):
Hello, this is John Burrows, one of the witnesses to
the rendalsom UFO incident. You're listening to the para cast,
the gold standard of a paranormal radio.

Speaker 2 (01:37:52):
Two more segments left in the para cast with Gene
and Chris. Chris, do you have any more questions left?
Or have we covered everything?

Speaker 5 (01:37:59):
We covered it thing? You know? Of course, I just
I could go on all day with Greg.

Speaker 3 (01:38:03):
This is a real thrill for me to finally meet
him and have a chance to look at this incredible
documentation here. I mean hundreds of photographs. It's just it's
chilling to see all this information. And you know, I'll
bet you know when the site is up and running
and everything, and you're gonna it's going to become an

(01:38:24):
instant hit on, at least in this particular, you know,
the paranormal realm, because there's very few sites that are
based on solid investigative documentation, very few. And this is
a testament to your efforts and keeping you know, your
dad's work alive and in the public eye.

Speaker 5 (01:38:42):
I think it's very important.

Speaker 3 (01:38:44):
My questions really would would be more around the Knits involvement.
I know your dad appreciated the effort that Robert Biglow
was making gathering a team of real, dedicated professionals in
their very fields. He was a kindred spirit in that sense,
being a field investigator with a lot of credentials. What

(01:39:08):
were some of the things about the KNIDS work that
he did for four or five years that sticks with you,
and what were some of his feelings about the results
that they were coming up with, most specifically.

Speaker 5 (01:39:20):
The mad cow connection. My dad was like move on.
When NIS was founded, they were all excited to have
a money, sources of what it comes down to to
actually start researching this. Like I mentioned earlier, they didn't
have any veterinary services early on with the state police.
They could care less about dead cows. They just they
don't have a budget for it. So who's going to
do quality research? So NIDS provided that Moufon jumped on

(01:39:42):
board and they had the agreement where bigg Ol would
give them reports on what was going on. But it
appears to be is just a trap from everything I've seen,
because they never did give mouf On any of the
information they were supposed to give them talking about NIDS
and they started doing that with my dad, and as
my dad got into the more of the relations, because

(01:40:04):
they were starting to happen more frequently during that time period,
they were stumbling into a lot of mad cow chronic
wasting disease evidence from these mulations, but it wasn't being
released to the public, which is scary. It's very, very scary,
and you can see why this is a very complex story.

(01:40:24):
People kind of look at it from the basic level
and say, well, why doesn't the government do this or
just buy cows that came up earlier? Like you talked about,
you if you have something that affects a beef industry,
the health industry, all these different industries, it's very complete,
complicated and complex, and it's a headache. So when the

(01:40:45):
wasting disease mad cow disease, that's a hot potato. But
it came out on but very few news media organizations
actually kicked it out. They just kind of ignored it,
which is scary because now if you kind of look
and there's documentaries that you can see about beef and
some of the contamination, people need to be aware about it.

Speaker 3 (01:41:03):
Well, one thing most people don't know is the Sherman
Anti Trust Act I think of nineteen twelve was not
done to break up Standard Oil or to break up
Ford Motor Company. It was done to break up the
beef trust. That's why we have the original anti trust
legislation in the United States. The beef lobby is one

(01:41:23):
of the largest, most powerful lobbies, and the one that
you hear the least about.

Speaker 4 (01:41:27):
Again, I mentioned this prior.

Speaker 3 (01:41:29):
Beef is the single largest money maker in agriculture, and
if you had a deadly lethal misfolded protein loose in
the food chain, I would think that somebody out there
would come up with the resources to monitor the potential
spread of this scourge through cattle herds. And this is

(01:41:52):
I think a connection point with the mulation phenomenon in
the nineties especially and beyond that deserves a lot more
attention than it's got from people like Linda Howe and
some others who are promoting more fantastic explanations for the
rationale tomy livestock around the world. What do you think
of that mancal thing you mentioned. It's a little frightening,

(01:42:13):
But what did your dad think about it as well?

Speaker 5 (01:42:16):
This gives you unique indication. Chris canseie me. I'm not
exactly skinny. I'm two hundred and fifty pounds. Well, I'm
six to My dad is from northern New Mexico. We
grew up eating meat, butcher lamb every week almost growing up.
To give you any indication of all my dad thought
about it, He quit eating meat the last two years
of his life. He pretty much became a vegetarian. And

(01:42:37):
that's unheard of for northern New Mexico Spanish man to
quit eating any type of meat. So wow, I didn't
know that. Yeah, he had lost a lot of weight
just from eating healthy us basically eating healthy. But he
saw enough doing what he did. It's enough to get
him to go vegetarian. So wow, that's an indication of
what he thought about it.

Speaker 3 (01:42:59):
This kind of a little bit of an uncomfortable question
for me. But when your dad passed, I immediately started
hearing rumblins that there was something strange about that. I've
done a little bit of research on this. I think
he had relatives that had died at the same age.
He always appeared to be fairly healthy to me, especially
describing you became a vegetarian and lost a lot of weight.

(01:43:20):
I know he worked out what are some of the
what are you thinking? I mean in terms of his
actual death. I mean, has that ever made you kind
of scratch your head or was it something that you
reconciled with yourself?

Speaker 5 (01:43:34):
Yeah, we looked at that too, because just by coincidence,
the day before he died, he was telling a friend,
you know, los Al almost Loud developed this weapon. They
can give you a heart attack by shooting you through
the from the street and you don't even know what happened.
Of course, he died from a heart attack, but we
have family members that are in the medical field that
I do, and we noticed that he had diabetes what

(01:43:58):
it appears to be diabetes. We try to get him
to go to the doctor about a year before he died,
and he locked himself into the truck. He just didn't
want to go to the doctor. Is just stubborn. That's
northern New Mexico, and all my aunts and uncles died.
I don't think he even lived past sixty eight, and
they've all had heart attacks, so it's something that's more genetic.
But we did look at it, and that's come up

(01:44:18):
several times a lot of people just because of the
nature of the stuff he was involved in. But it
doesn't look like there has never been any evidence in
a foul play that the government was involved or they
were trying to plush him out because he wasn't necessarily sick.
But he had symptoms of diabetes that he didn't treat,
and we tried to get him to We knew something

(01:44:38):
might be wrong, that he was not anything sinister or
anything like that, just he needed to go to the doctor,
and he just wouldn't go to the doctor. And that
was about a year before, so we kind of figured
it was diabetes.

Speaker 3 (01:44:51):
Well, another couple of interesting things that I've heard from
Gabe himself involved. He made these very interesting veiled comments
that and the word sensitive he always use, that's too
sensitive to talk about.

Speaker 4 (01:45:07):
He would constantly use that term.

Speaker 3 (01:45:10):
And in his last interview with the Open Minds group
Elandu Rojas, he was hinting around like he was about
ready to come out and talk about some of these
areas that he even told me on occasion that he
really didn't feel comfortable going and talking about what I
assumed was the level of his understanding.

Speaker 5 (01:45:31):
Of the military and government involvement in and around.

Speaker 3 (01:45:34):
The Dulci area. But do you have any comments on that?
I mean, was he getting ready to come out and
say something more? Because your dad was very very close
to the best. I mean he really was. I mean,
he was a cop.

Speaker 4 (01:45:47):
The cops woudn't buy that that way naturally.

Speaker 5 (01:45:50):
Well, he had to because we as I mentioned earlier,
he had to sign it on discolosure agreement. And we
used to tease him because used to use the word
sensitive all the time. He would tell people, I know
who did it, but I can't tell you. Well, don't
even bother telling them that if you tell them or don't.

Speaker 3 (01:46:03):
Tell So you think it all boiled down just to
the NDS thing because he was saying this to me
before he got involved with its.

Speaker 5 (01:46:09):
Yeah, and that's part of it. But as we've been talking,
it's a very complex story. You have this classified aircraft
because a lot of people have ignored that. We've documented
that since the mid eighties. So you have this spycraft,
which is another headache. That's one headache is you're getting
into classified military aircraft that hasn't been released, but we
know it's there because there's photos of it and there's

(01:46:31):
a trail of that. Then we just touched on it
earlier about the matt Cow the wasting disease. That's a
whole other kind of works. So when he was saying
it's sensitive, it is sensitive. It affects a lot of
military it affects Americans in general, you have radiation, potential
radiation contamination. There's a lot of evidence that they were

(01:46:52):
testing on the Native Americans up in Dulcy. The government
was doing a lot of weird tests, which the book
kind of gets into. So you have a lot of
potatoes that's a goal and legal stuff that's been going
on for forty years.

Speaker 2 (01:47:07):
Tell you what, guys, this could obviously make someone paranoid.
You know, they're tapping your phone, they're after you. People
are getting sick. What's going on here? Greg Valdez joining
Gene and Chris. You're in the para cast.

Speaker 5 (01:47:33):
Hi, this is Tracy Tome, screenwriter, a producer.

Speaker 1 (01:47:35):
You're listening to.

Speaker 5 (01:47:35):
Para Cast, the gold standard of paranormal radio.

Speaker 2 (01:47:43):
So Greg Valdez joining Gene and Chris and the para cast,
Greg in Lne of all this, do you find reason
to be a little, you know, paranoid about things going on?

Speaker 5 (01:47:53):
No, I've been around this long enough. If they're gonna
come take my stuff, they're gonna come take it. They
already have it because my dad used to it to
everyone anyway, to give them copies. He worked for Naves.
They got access to it. Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning
have already showed how if they want to take your information,
they're going to take it anyway, so I'm not too

(01:48:13):
worried about that. A lot of people kind of get
paranoid on this stuff, and for some of them there's
legitimate reason, but they know what's going on. They don't
need me to write a book to highlight it. And
the thing is this kind of if they were to
come out and say stop doing this, stop talking, they
legitimize everything I'm saying. They run more risk by making

(01:48:35):
me be quiet, so they'll just kind of leave you
alone and monitor you and make sure you're not raising
too much trouble. That's what it comes down to. You've
heard stories where other people have written books and then
they say, oh, the Air Force came to my house
the other day to talk to me about you my book.
They don't do that. I've been in law enforcement because
they don't show their cards unless they have to show

(01:48:55):
their cards. So a lot of those stories are junk.
But they're not going to come bother me until I
cross that line, and hopefully I don't ever cross that line.
I don't want any visit from people but it's kind
of a game, and it's law enforcement. I kind of
learned the game hopefully, so I'm not too worried about it,
and if they do come bother me, it'll legitimize everything

(01:49:16):
that's in the book and just hammer it home, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:49:19):
Wow. So as far as the book is concerned, when
did you start writing it? Why'd you decide to do it?

Speaker 5 (01:49:27):
I actually started writing it not too long after my
dad died because I ended up with all his files.
I'm only one that knows what they mean because I
look at these pictures and tell you when it was
the picture was taken. So by default I got I
inherited them, and my brothers didn't really know what they meant.
So investigators were calling me asking for files, you know,
the guys. And my dad had been around for years
and he trusted him, so I gave him a picture here,

(01:49:48):
picture there. Well, but every time I explain it, it turned
into a five page report on what one picture meant.
So I just basically I'm lazy, and I said, I know,
I might as well just put into a book for
and organize it, because I was chronicling a lot of
the evidence anyway, trying to get it organized. So I
was trying to put it into report for them so

(01:50:09):
it would be easy when investigators would would ask for it.
So I ended up turning and it was I would
end up writing a book anyway, so I said, I
might as well just put it and organize it and
get it, get the story straight. And then my dad
would get this and I kind of got this too.
When people would ask me questions about Lucy, I get
frustrated because they were so off the mark because their

(01:50:29):
information is based off of false stories. And then you
I would try to explain it to them and they
would get mad at me for trying to help them out.
And it's frustrating because they're arguing with you over something
that's false. So I said, I just decided, you know,
it's a tribute to my dad. I wrote it for
my dad to get his story documented, because he knew
a lot and I'm going to start forgetting it. Unfortunately

(01:50:51):
he's not here right now, but there's no need in
losing all the information he had. And while I remember,
I better write it down because all of them, you
forget some of this stuff too. So I thought it
was important to document history.

Speaker 2 (01:51:03):
Well, we're glad that you finally decided to do it.
From here, where do you go? Do you continue to
research this subject and try to figure out more of
what is going on?

Speaker 5 (01:51:13):
Yeah, I keep tabs. I still have contacts with some
of the investigators. The book kind of tells you what's
going on, so hopefully a lot of the answers are
the questions are answered. So there's only so much it
can be done. From my perspective, I'll help people. Like
I mentioned in the book, I don't never seen any
evidence of aliens, but if you can bring me evidence

(01:51:33):
of aliens and dulcy, I'll try to help you verify it,
and me too. You know, I have knowledge of the area,
so I can help people. There's a lot more to this.
There's the cancer rates, there's the potential storage of nuclear waste.
You have the wasting disease. So it's not like there's
the work's done. It just people need to get back

(01:51:54):
on track and look at the right area to dig
up more stuff instead of kind of spinning their tail,
kind of getting sidetracked on some of the side issues
that have popped up and doo see. So if people
need help, I wouldn't mind helping them doing more research
in that regard to get more of the story up,
the true story up some of the fantasy stuff that's

(01:52:14):
dololing around.

Speaker 2 (01:52:15):
I think one thing we learn in this crazy field,
and I've caused everybody to laugh completely hysterically here, one
of the things we learned here is that Number One,
you can't kill a good story. So even if a
story is disproven, it's going to be resurrected by somebody.
Somebody's going to decide, you know what. I can write

(01:52:37):
a book about that, or I can tell a story
about that, or I can go on certain radio shows
about that and pretend to be knowledgeable, so they will
continue to tell the story. So how do you, as
they say, keep them from doing that.

Speaker 5 (01:52:53):
That's their business. That's not my job. Like I said,
the whole purpose of the book is to give my
dad's story. If people want to add take away, that's
their business. But as far as I'm concerned, the book
is the go to authority on Doulcy. There's issues outside
of Doolsey. People can talk about that. That's not my
concern because I didn't investigate into that stuff. My dad

(01:53:15):
wasn't involved in some of that stuff. But if it
comes to Doolecy, this book will will set it straight,
and at least it's established from someone credible, not just
someone that heard about it or heard from a friend
that talked to a friend that knew someone in the
military or one of those stories. It's from the source
and it gets sets a record street And that was
one of my goals well.

Speaker 3 (01:53:36):
And also Greg, I've been kind of saying this for years.
If you're a local and you have a history in
a particular location with the local people, they trust you,
and they're willing to talk to you, and they're willing
to go to you for help, and they're willing to
open up if you're coming in from the outside and
trying to establish anything, especially in a community like around

(01:53:58):
the Hickorya and the Dulce anywhere northern New Mexico, I mean,
some of the Penitente communities.

Speaker 5 (01:54:02):
So when you have with the pitchfork, it's very difficult
for an outstarting to go in there and and really
gain any headway.

Speaker 3 (01:54:08):
And that's that's why I think your dad and you're
now your work, taking your dad's work and presenting it
in a concise manner for the first time in public.
I think it's invaluable and you know, my hat's off
to you. I really again, I want to say, you
did an amazing job to your first attempted to be
a writer. I wish that my book was that good,
you know, and you really did have. I mean, like

(01:54:32):
every single thing that you have in your book, you're
able to go to paperwork, You're able to go to documentation,
You're able to go to conversations that have been established.
And my hat's off to you in that, because there's
very few books in this realm that that you can
go to almost every fact and have it backed up
like that, And that's really a testamentier to your dedication

(01:54:53):
on this.

Speaker 5 (01:54:54):
Thanks Chris. I appreciate it that. I think that comes
from our law enforcement, right. I turned out to make
it sound like a please report, which was kind of hard.
But yeah, you did a good, real good job. That's
what my dad did for a living. That's what I
do for a living. If I'm going to put something
on paper, I'm going to support it and back it up.
I'm not going to romanticize it or suspend it, spin it,
or you know, create good I might think it is.

(01:55:17):
If there's something that's great. A lot of this stuff
is great. The book tells you it's great. If it's proven,
then it's proven, and if it's not, then it's not.
But I think that's what's gone people in the Trouble
in the past is they've kind of just spun things
without documenting it, and then it's one of those things
once you start lying and you can't back it up,
you have to lie more to continue it. So I

(01:55:39):
think that's what's done a lot of these other guys
in Trouble in the past is they're actually they're not
correct when they start their story, so it just goes
down here pretty quick after that.

Speaker 3 (01:55:50):
Also, this subject does have a tendency to weed out
sort of people that may be a little twitchy, maybe
not strong emotionally, yet grounded emotionally. If there's a wobble
in your personality or in your energy field, if you will,
you're gonna spin wildly out of control at some point.

(01:56:11):
And that's that's why this subject matter, I think, burns
a lot of people out. You met Tom Adams, for instance,
and you Tom in ninety nine, he disappeared. He's been
off the map for thirteen fourteen years. Nobody knows except
one person that we know of that's been in contact
with him. There's a person that actually you know, lost it,

(01:56:32):
and there's other people. There's examples of that. Paul Benowitz
at the at points was almost driven crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:56:39):
You know what, we'll be driven crazy if we don't
bring it to an end right here, Chris, Greg Valdez,
you have a sight up yet or someplace we can
find more of what you do.

Speaker 5 (01:56:47):
It's gonna be dulcybasbook dot com. They keep telling me today,
but it's always turns it in tomorrow. But docbasbook dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:56:54):
Okay, we'll set it up. We'll get a link for you.
Chris O'Brien, you have the book Stalking to Herd coming
up and a couple of months. You also have our
Strange Planet dot com. You can find us on Twitter,
where we are known as the Paracast. We are the
Powercast on Twitter, or visit our web portal www dot

(01:57:14):
Theparacast dot com. Check out our forum, subscribe to our newsletter.
I think I've covered most of it. Greg Valdez, thank
you so much for joining us this week on the
Power Cast.

Speaker 5 (01:57:24):
Thank you guys for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:57:35):
The Paracast featuring Jens Steinberg and Christopher O'Brien is a
copyrighted presentation of Making the Impossible incorporated. Tune in next
week for a new adventure in the Paracast

All Episodes

Classic Episode: August 4, 2013 — Dulce Base Legends: Greg Valdez

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Classic Episode: August 4, 2013 — Dulce Base Legends: Greg Valdez