March 9, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode of The Paranormal Classroom, Amanda and Lindsay dive into the chilling true crime case of Walter Collins, a nine-year-old boy who mysteriously vanished from Los Angeles in 1928. As his desperate mother, Christine Collins, searched for him, the case took a bizarre turn when police presented her with a boy they claimed was Walter—only for Christine to realize he was an imposter. We also discuss the dark and tragic connections between Walter’s disappearance and the infamous Wineville Chicken Coop Murders, a case that left lasting scars on Los Angeles history. Join us as we unravel the mystery, deception, and heartbreaking reality behind one of the most unsettling cases of the early 20th century.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh
(00:02):
The Paranormal Classroom
Welcome back to the Paranormal Classroom where we take attendance for the unexplained
I'm Amanda
And I'm Lindsay and we're two teacher moms talking about stuff that freaks us out
Music
(00:25):
It's toasty and nice in here
So I don't really have an intro question for you
Well I guess I do
It's kind of dark so
Do you want to do what's hunting you?
Oh yeah
I'm just excited
I'm glad you're excited
I had the most mortifying day today
(00:46):
That's a lot
I mean you and I have had some mortifying days
It's horrible Lindsay
I came home from work
I came home from work and I found a giant hole in my dress right under my boob
It was... yeah
How big are we talking?
Woah!
(01:07):
Maybe like this big
That's like a small, well, it's like a chicken nugget size hole
Yes I had a chicken nugget size hole in my dress
Here's the thing, luckily
And you work with adults now
I think goodness I work with adults and not children
No, because that would be inappropriate
But I'm also...
Well I'm assuming you had underwear on
(01:28):
I did, but everybody saw it
And like...
I love my coworkers, I absolutely love them
But I'm really disappointed
No one said anything?
No one said anything
And I know people were looking because I caught people looking
But I never look down because I'm like
I'm not going to like draw attention to my stomach
Or my, you know what I mean?
Like I'm a bigger woman so I just
(01:49):
I'm used to it and I just keep going
I was at home and there was a huge hole
And nobody told me
Girls, girls, you need to help a sister out
Yeah, you need it, that's a real let down in the sisterhood
And it's all women that I work with right
Because they're all teachers
Like somebody, somebody should have been like
Why man, as a friend?
Because they hate me I guess
No, there's no way
That's like, maybe they still feel like they know you well enough
(02:12):
But what better way to break the ice with someone
Than save their life
By saying hey
You got a chicken nugget size hole under your boob
Oh man, I know, it's worse
And also how does that happen?
I don't know, I get cheap clothes from Sheen
So I'm saying that's my pattern
Well there you go, you had it coming
You're getting child labor clothes
(02:33):
Then you deserve a chicken nugget hole
I guess
I'm trying really hard to like
Because this is a new job for me
And it's like a step up
I feel like I'm really trying to like
Step up my presentation of myself
The wardrobe game
My wardrobe game and I just can't
I never feel like I have it together
Every day I go to work and I feel like
Oh my gosh
That's why I love my job
Because the trick is
(02:54):
The trick is to be a specialist
Of some kind
Maybe not the librarian
Because I feel like they still got to look
Profesh
But I'm fine if they don't
And maybe the music teacher
But even then you can relax
PE, steam
We're expected to get smelly, dirty
Wakala, as we say in Spanish
(03:16):
So yeah, I'm wearing whatever I want to wear
T-shirts and jeans most days
Yep, and I used to do that
But now I'm trying to do better
I get it
And every day I'm like, man, it's just not good enough
And now today really, really
Was like a bat to the knee
That's truly the most mortifying thing
That's ever happened to you
No, it's probably the worst
(03:37):
Because I got you beat like a thousand times
Do you want to share it?
No, I do not
Well
A real quick one is that I did in high school
I think it was the end of my junior year
We had this huge outdoor cement stair case
Essentially going down into the
Gym at cafeteria or whatever it is
And the whole school was going for an assembly
(04:01):
In the gym
And I was carrying my backpack
And I was wearing a skirt
Like one of these overall type skirts
But it was flowy
And I tripped and fell down several
Stairs with
And my skirt totally came up over my butt
Everybody saw my underwear
And I could have just picked myself up
(04:23):
Just to myself off
And kept going and then beat right
And just made it to my seat
That's not how I roll
So of course I jump up
Molly Shannon style in SNL
Hands in the air like a gymnastics move
And go I'm okay
(04:44):
Of course you did
I had to make it worse
I always make it worse
Still as an adult
Every time I'm trying to make an awkward situation
Less awkward I make it ten times worse
I have no cause
I think it's actually one of your more redeeming qualities
That you're just so funny
(05:05):
What makes other people feel normal
Yeah
If I can make things
If I'm the weirdo in the room
That everybody else knows it's not them
So I guess you're welcome
So yeah
Alright well what's haunting me
I was
I had a couple of yucky days with a couple classes
Yesterday with a
(05:27):
Second grade class
Today with a third grade class
And I'm just wrestling with was I too hard on them
Or
Should I be that hard on them more often
So that I wouldn't have to you know what I mean
So I know your expectations
Yeah like I was so today especially
So frustrated
So frustrated
(05:49):
There is a chronic issue
And I'm not the only teacher who feels this way
Cause we talk about stuff
Collegially and
We are noticing like a shorter and shorter
Perseverance
Ability so like six seconds
And they've done studies
Like six seconds is the average
(06:12):
American child's attention span
Oh wow
And we see it and we feel it and it is painful
So yeah
I was up against that today with just trying to get them to
Copy something from
An email address
From the board from the TV
Onto their iPad
And it took half the class
(06:34):
Between 10 and 35 minutes
To type my email address
Which is just my first initial
My last name which is six letters
Seven letters six letters
And at
Blah blah blah dot word
(06:55):
That's it
What stumped them the at symbol
Have they not are that familiar with that
Two L's in the school district name
A B instead of a D
Putting an I instead of an L for my first name
Like not spelling my last name
But there's no excuse
It's right there
I understand if you get it wrong
(07:17):
Once, twice, even three times
But first of all don't tell me
It won't let me
Cause it's not a sentient being out to get you
It's an iPad and if you do it correctly
It will work for you
I promise
So I hear that all the time
And then yeah just the same kids
(07:39):
Making the same mistakes
Over and over and over again
And I'm like this guys is the definition of insanity
We don't have time to go into that right now
But you are literally making the same error
15 times
I gave up my lunch period
Because they I was like
They had to turn it in assignment this way
And I'm just like it can't be this hard
(08:01):
And so then I was just stubborn about it
Like there wasn't any other way for them to turn it in anyway
But it was also just like
Truly how long can this go
Well 35 minutes for some kids
Wow
25 minutes after class was done
I still had six kids in my classroom
Nine year olds who should be able to read
(08:22):
Then at least copy things down
But some don't have letter recognition
Yeah maybe they can't
But you know it was wild
But let your kids be bored
Let them be bored
Quit putting stuff in their hands like devices all the time
Let them be bored
It's amazing how creative they'll get
And how they'll read and talk
(08:44):
And get cardboard out
And start building things
Yeah it's awesome
And get along better with their siblings
Because they'll be forced to play together
And that's bugging me I just I don't know
Alrighty well tomorrow's a new day
Clean slate start over
To get into it
(09:06):
Have you ever known anybody personally
Who has disappeared?
Oh I actually have but I can't talk about it
Because it's work related
Whoa okay well don't
Yeah obviously
Now I'm fixated on that I can't think of another one
So I guess not I've seen like come across my Facebook pictures
(09:29):
Of like people friends of friends posting
Please look out for this kid
Yes yes yes I've definitely seen that
But not no
It's kind of the modern day milk carton
Is the Facebook post
So I only know of one and I didn't know her very well
But she was friends with my sister
They're the same age and she disappeared
(09:50):
I want to say when they were about 17
And they ended up finding her remains
Oh no that's so sad
So don't know if she was a runaway
Or if she got involved with some people who
When a fairy is or if she was kidnapped or what
Nobody ever really seemed to
I never found that I'm sure somebody
Obviously somebody knows something but
(10:11):
It wasn't me
Wow
It was the sweetest, nicest, like shy little thing
That's horrible
Did you know that our president Teddy Roosevelt
Did he got lost he just disappeared during his term
Of being president
He was like really really he's my husband's favorite president
(10:33):
Because he was crazy like in hilarious ways
He was very adventurous
He went hunting and hiking and outdoors
He's the one who like put together all our national parks and things
But he just one day is like I gotta get out of here
And somehow his team of people who are responsible for
Keeping an eye on the president lost him
(10:54):
He was like I'm gonna go out and then he like disappeared in the woods
Did they not have like what they have now like secret service wise
I think they did but I think they still lost him
He got him off his tail
He got him off his tail he's like I gotta just gotta be in the woods for a few days
And he disappeared they lost track of him
And he came back a few days later but he just had his own little walkabout
Good for him
I bet they all need to do that
(11:16):
Maybe they should all disappear every once in a while
He's also the president who said
You're not a man until you've killed somebody
So he's got a lot he's a very fascinating person
I think he's she was that tight Mr. Rillin' up
I do
But did you ever see do you know the Bear Grylls show
Like into the wild or whatever it's called
That just popped up on my Netflix yeah
(11:37):
The Bear Grylls versus Wild
I don't know what it's called
But I know the guy who was Bear Grylls
The one with Obama
President Obama
No he was on the show
Fantastic yes it was after his presidency
But he and he talks about how he didn't have a cell phone
During his presidency which the times have changed
Right
But and so he didn't really know how to use one until afterward
(11:59):
In a while
It is wild I would think that he would have had a cell phone
No cause it's like got tracking in different things
And they didn't want him to but
Somebody has changed the rules
Well yeah so that's kind of just a
Get you started thinking about this
We're going to be talking a little bit about missing kids
But then there's also a twist to the missing kid thing
(12:21):
So here we go
What happens when justice fails
When a grieving mother's worst nightmare becomes a national
National scandal
And when an unrelated but gruesome crime spree
Weaves itself into the story of one missing boy
Okay
Yeah
(12:42):
So today we're going to dive into the haunting case of Walter Collins
He was a nine year old boy who vanished from Los Angeles in 1928
Well I'm already sad
Yeah
But in 1928 that was a very different time right
Sure you had 13 kids cause you knew you were going to lose six of them
Yeah and I'm thinking about also like Annie
I just went to see the production of Annie and like they had orphanages
(13:05):
They had kids on the street
They had even new newsies
Yeah so kids were kind of fending for themselves a little more
Not only did you have to sell papers but you had to sing and dance
For a penny
Yeah it is in the happy story
Okay
Fair warning
His disappearance became a sensationalized mystery made even more horrific by its potential connection
(13:31):
To a series of crimes that we'll get into more later
Okay
This case exposes corruption, desperation and the terrifying reality
Reality that sometimes the truth is even stranger than fiction
Okay
Wait is this a solved?
Is this a solved or unsolved?
I would say it's like questionably solved
(13:55):
You can make me put that question in the parking lot and we can come back to it
Put it in the parking lot
Here's your sticky note
Alright so let's go back to March 10th 1928
Okay
It was a typical day in Los Angeles
So smoggy, swelteringly hot, loud and gross
I lived there for a year I think it's fair for me to say that
(14:18):
Walter's mother Christine Collins gave him a dime to go see a movie
A dime for a movie
A nine year old, here's a dime sonny go see that flick
You don't want to see
You got a spider coming down
Inside?
I don't know if it's inside or outside but don't worry he's not too close to you
He might have just been on the outside
Sorry everybody, just a spider but uh
(14:39):
Did you see it though?
I saw it at the very end
Turn on the big boy
I think he's out in the outside
We would see him if you were inside
Because he was pushing into that space between my window and door frame
I just about climbed in your lap
Did you see that?
What's that like?
That like spikers, just like a few inches away from home
I don't like it when I respect spiders
(15:01):
They do a good thing
But I do not want them on me
You have to go back because I was distracted by that thing floating down by your face
Good lord, jeez, oh my
Sorry everybody
Okay we're gonna back up a little bit
Oh god
Do you need a Girl Scout cookie and then we can
No, I've already had four
Okay
Alrighty
(15:22):
Um
Mwah mwah mwah
Go back a little bit so she gave him a dime
So she gives him a dime to go see that flick he wants to see
Uh huh
And in the days and weeks that followed
His disappearance sparked a massive search
So he just went and he never came home
Well I would never let my nine year old go to him by themselves
No
And maybe it's because this was the first
(15:43):
This was the like the event
Maybe
That set off all of us being afraid to let our kids out
That didn't really seem to start to happen until like the 80s
When like the white van
Stuff started happening
Um
So
Witnesses claim to have seen little Walter Collins
In various places
That happens all the time
(16:04):
Anytime somebody goes missing
They're like oh I saw him here and I saw him here
Like states away
I saw him doing it
Yeah but people aren't reliable
No
They just want to be a part of something
Some people desperately want to help
Or genuinely want to help
But it's false
It's
Yeah, witness testimony is flawed
But no solid leads ever materialized
His mother desperate and determined
(16:26):
She never gave up hope
Then
Five months later
There was a breakthrough
Or so it seemed
A boy in Illinois
So we're in California
Walter's in California
A boy in Illinois
Five months later
Claimed to be Walter Collins
Whoa
The police under intense pressure to solve the case
Quickly arranged for his return to Los Angeles
(16:48):
Christine was of course
Overwhelmed with relief
Until she saw him
Oh my gosh
The boy standing before her
Wasn't Walter
So they sent some kid
Didn't they have a photo?
Did they have a photo to confirm?
Before they flew him or drove him
I don't think they cared
(17:09):
Across the country
I think they were like
This kid says he's him
Why would a kid do that if it's not
Okay but you gotta check that
Think about it because
Well because of what's happening now
That part where I said this is about corruption
Okay
This is part of that
So it gets worse for poor Christine
(17:31):
But yeah
That's exactly what I thought you would say is
Well how did the police act?
When she said yo this ain't my kid
Yes
Here's how they reacted
Instead of admitting they made a mistake
The LAPD insisted she was wrong
That
The your crazy
That is the ultimate gas landing
And there has ever been gas landing
That's crazy
Can you imagine?
(17:52):
So they encouraged her to quote
Try him out
What the heck is wrong with these men?
I know
As if he were a replacement
Not a missing child
I give this one a go
How old is this kid?
He's nine and a half
Nine and a half, ten now
The boy
It's a right age
Was he like a seventeen year old?
I think he was the same age
(18:13):
Between nine and eleven
Wow
Yeah
Christine determined to prove the truth
Brought dental records
And even spoke to Walter's teachers and friends
Get it, Maram
They all confirmed this boy was not Walter Collins
But
The police refused to admit their mistake
Instead
They accused Christine of suffering from hysteria
(18:35):
And committed her to the L.A. County Hospital Psychiatric Ward
This is
Crazy
Oh yeah
Oh yeah
It's gonna start happening
It's horrible for the kid too
Like we can't
Like I don't know the kid's story
I don't know what he's playing at
Right
But to be taken across the country and then have this one
And it doesn't want him
Whatever he
I don't know what his play is
(18:56):
But
Horrible for the kid too
Yeah
She was silenced, institutionalized and labeled insane
Did she have a husband?
No
It's her and this boy
Oh my gosh
Yeah
So
Yeah
All because she just dared to question the authorities
About her own child that came out of her
(19:17):
VJJ
Wow
Her womb
And she's like
That is not my
I just saw him five months ago
That's not my kid
I know my child from a sea of kids
Where in the same uniform
Out on a baseball field
All in a practice
35, 40 of them
I am, my eyes immediately go to him
(19:38):
Every single time
And he's not purple
He's not 18 feet tall or 3 feet tall
He looks like the rest
But my mama instincts know his gait
The way he carried
Like just everything about him
My attention goes right to him
Every single time
Right
I would just want to punch people if I were her
Maybe she did it
(19:59):
Maybe that's what
Maybe that's what
That's what
Yeah
You're just crazy lady
But you and I talk about that all the time
That people will often treat women
Who advocate for themselves
Stand up for themselves
Yeah
And I'm not wrong
That you are crazy, stupid or a bitch
Yeah
And this is literally my worst fear
(20:20):
I'm so glad that I'm born now
In now times
Because it was my
It's my greatest fear
Watching all the like old movies
And learning about history
Or just that women could just be
Put away in these mental institutions
Just for being a little bit cranky
Or just for like questioning authority
Like you said
There's so many times in my life
When I have to stand up for myself
(20:43):
And you wouldn't
It would be a whole different life
You would be censoring that constantly
Staying sweet
Keeping smiling
Putting up with all kinds of like
Abuse of your boundaries
And even worse
Just so you wouldn't be
It's torment
Sent away
Yeah
And I
There's you know the whole
Handmaid's Tale thing
And how we're sort of on a slippery slope
(21:04):
Toward those days
You know it's not
It was a warning
Not an instruction manual
And it seems like a lot of people in power
Are using it as an instruction manual
As well as other books
Like 1984
And Animal Farm
And things like that
But it's like guys
These were not meant for you to copy
The stories within
They are meant to
Serve as a warning
Against letting this happen
(21:25):
So hopefully
We never go back to this
But I don't know
This poor woman though
I know
I know
I can't even imagine
Yeah
And she even got
All the community members
Were like agreed with her
And it still was not enough
Probably because all the other teachers
Were women too
So yeah
Oh yeah yeah
Yeah so
Who was this kid
(21:46):
He asked that like
I don't know what this kid's story is
Well the boy finally admitted
That he wasn't Walter
Surprise
Do we let her out of the
Mental institution now?
Eventually
His real name was
Arthur Hutchins
And he was a runaway from Iowa
Who had taken advantage
Of the situation
To get a free ride to California
(22:07):
I kind of love that
For Arthur
A nine year old ten year old brain
Get me out of Iowa
Yeah I'm him
Walter Collins
Sounds good
Let me get to California
I want to see the ocean
Yes
I mean I kind of like the tenacity
So the police had spent months
Forcing a grieving mother to accept
A lie all because
They wanted to close the case
(22:29):
Not the first time
Won't be the last
I think in today's age
You could sue
She does
She does later
I can't remember
It's been a while since I wrote this
So I can't remember
If it was successful or not
But she does sue the police
Good
Walter Collins was still missing
And while Christine fought for her freedom
Another horrifying story
Was unraveling in Wineville
(22:51):
A small town in Riverside County
In California
Okay
Enter Gordon Stuart Northcott
A name that would soon become
Infamous
He and his mother Sarah Louise Northcott
Ran a chicken farm
That concealed something far more sinister
In 1928
Authorities began investigating Northcott
(23:12):
For kidnapping and abuse
And what they discovered was horrifying
The bodies of multiple boys
Oh
Yep
Some as young as Walter
Were found on the property
Northcott had lured
And murdered victims
In what became known as
The Wineville Chicken Coop Murders
Ew
Yeah
Why?
And you know what's crazier
(23:33):
I don't have any notes
But I know from my research
Is that the father of this man
Knew that his kid was nutso
And left
He was like
This son of ours is bonkers
I'm out of here
I'm not gonna stick around
To see what finds out
He left
The dad took off
The family left the farm
And he was like
I am not
(23:54):
No lady
You are on your own
If you wanna stand by this kid
So he took off
Rather than like
I don't know what you could have done
But maybe throw that guy in an asylum
Uh-huh
No, he's a man
I can't do that
I know
So how old was this
Was the Gordon guy?
He was in his 30s I believe
And he was the murderer
He was not old
(24:15):
And then his mom
She was in the 50s
She was the accomplice
Yeah, she knew
As well as the chickens
Well, they weren't talking
They sure weren't talking
But maybe they weren't
We just didn't understand
So at the same time
That the public was gripped
By a growing panic over time
And a growing panic over child abductions
Like you said
Yep
In media coverage of both
(24:36):
Walter Collins' disappearance
And the Lionville case
People were on edge
And it's also LA
So sensationalism
In the headlines
Blurred the line between fact and speculation
Feeding into nationwide paranoia
So
Here's where things get
A little more heartbreaking
Is that
We don't know for sure
(24:58):
But they suspect that
Walter was one of Northcott's victims
Yeah, and they can't
Do the same kind of
DNA testing that they would do today
No
So
While Northcott confessed
To killing several boys
Including one he initially claimed
Was Walter Collins
He later recanted
(25:19):
I love it when they do that
Crazy-ish
They say, yeah, yeah, yeah
It was me, I did it
Confess everything
And then
You go to hold the count to it
And they recant
Nevermind, nevermind
Nope, nope, I didn't mean it
I always find that weird
When they're like interviewed
So they catch a killer
They're interviewing them
And they're like, did you kill this person?
Did you kill this person?
Like, why do we assume
(25:40):
That a killer is even going to remember
What if they never even ask the people's name?
What if they don't remember their faces
Because they're in some altered state of consciousness?
I don't know what it's like to be a killer
So I don't, I mean
I don't know what their state of mind is
And I just think it's weird that they ask them
These kind of questions
And then you wouldn't expect them to tell the truth
(26:02):
Necessarily because they're already
Like, something's wrong with them
Or tell the truth one way or the other
Like, there's been a lot of people
Who have admitted to things that they never did
That's true too
Because they're just, they're sick
And they want the attention
Which is bonkers
But, yeah, it happens
So, the police found remains
Belonging to other victims
(26:23):
But Walter's body was never recovered
So, Christine Collins never accepted the fact
That her son was dead
She spent the rest of her life searching for him
Even after Northcott was convicted
And executed in 1930
I think every mom would do that
I think until you have your actual proof
You're going to have that hope
I've heard different things from moms
(26:44):
I feel like some moms
And I think it ties into kind of spiritual connection too
Some moms have said like
I know she's dead
I know what he said
And others are like, no, I know they're still alive
I know they're out there somewhere
And it's hard to know if it's just that wish
Or do they really have a spiritual connection
(27:07):
That they just haven't felt it's severed yet
I don't know
I don't ever want to know
I don't ever want to know
Oh, golly
As Northcott's trial played out
So we know he was executed
But as his trial played out
Christine took her fight to the court
Suing the LAPD
Good
Yep, for their gross misconduct
(27:29):
In 1931, oh here it is, that's right
She won a lawsuit against Captain J.J. Jones
The officer who had forced her into the psychiatric ward
But he never fully paid the damages
Christine's struggle for justice
Exposed the LAPD's corruption
But it couldn't bring her son back, of course
The town of Wineville was so traumatized by the crimes
(27:51):
That it actually changed its name to Mira Loma
It's no longer called Wineville
I don't know that town, do you know it?
I've heard of it, but I've never been there
What's Mira Loma mean?
A mirror or lake?
Mira means look
So it's Loma, I don't even know what Loma means
But there's a lot of like, I feel like Loma Linda
Loma?
(28:12):
Oh, yeah, Siri
What does Loma mean in Spanish?
Loma
Right, but what does it mean?
Oh, starting to tell me
Oh, I have my phone right here
Who's gonna get it first?
Oh, it's a hill
Look, hill
(28:34):
Yeah, or overlook
Let's see, maybe it's like Mira Loma
Like an overlooking eye, you can go to a place where you look out
Like where you can take a vista
Where you can pull over on the side of a highway
Or whatever, take pictures of a pretty view
Maybe it's like that
It's not to be confused with Loka
Which means something very different
Look, it means crazy, right?
(28:55):
Okie dokie, let's get back into it
They just changed the name of their town?
Yes, it's totally with you
Mira Loma now, because they wanted to erase its connection to the murders
Which I don't really blame them, but if every town did that, jeez
The map would be changing every 12 hours
Detroit?
Detroit's on its 176th name
(29:18):
Oh gosh
So there are people who still believe that Walter could have survived
That he could still be alive
But he wasn't one of the ones
He could have, they didn't find any evidence
Yeah, so there's some theories
Some believe Walter might have been kidnapped by someone else entirely
While others think he could have escaped Northcott
But was too traumatized to return home
With no definitive evidence proving his death
(29:41):
The question of what really happened to Walter Collins remains unanswered to this day
And this isn't the only time a missing child came
Or a missing child came
Let me back up, delete, delete, try again
This isn't the only time a missing child case
Took a bizarre turn with an imposter
I love an imposter story
(30:03):
I think that's so funny
That little dude, Arthur
I just want to get to California
And he's, you know, he's hacking papers on the corner
And he sees that this kid's gone missing
Uh-huh
He has my chance and sees the day
Oh gosh, okay
(30:24):
There's a guy named Frédéric Baudin, the chameleon
He was a French con artist who spent years
This is hysterical to me
A man, full grown man, who spent years impersonating missing children
Most famously deceiving a Texas family
Wait, wait, wait, what's this man look like?
So, a barely pretty child like
(30:47):
He must have something where he's allergic to his own hair follicles
And not growing a beard
Yes, I don't understand
But he deceived a Texas family in 1997
Oh no, that's really recent
I gotta see, if it's 97 there's gonna be a picture of him, right?
He had them believing he was their missing son, Nicholas Barclay
Why? For why?
(31:08):
Is there like a reward in the con artist?
They just want attention, I guess
Or the thrill of the con
Which I guess is, you know, when not murderers, we're also not con artists
So, although being a teacher sometimes feels like being a con artist
Okay, hang on, what was his name again?
The real missing kid was Nicholas Barclay
And the imposter was Frédéric Baudin
(31:31):
Bourbonne, which is B-O-U-R-D-I-N
Oh, there's a picture of him
There is no way that anyone would think this was a child
I can't wait to see it
There is the chameleon
Wait, hang on
Maybe he had like, he was really good with
(31:53):
Like, what's that stuff called?
Stage makeup?
Yeah, filters?
He was awesome on Snapchat
Make it bigger, but look at him, he's got wrinkles on his forehead
He's a grown man
He's not a receiving hairline that doesn't click
That's not a child
No way!
What?
(32:15):
I don't know, man
And then there was the case of Bobby Dunbar in 1912
He was a young boy who disappeared in Louisiana
And a child found months later
Was given to the Dunbar family
Where they found that child, I don't know
But they're like, here's another child
In DNA testing, decades later
Revealed he wasn't actually Bobby
(32:37):
So who was that guy? Who was that kid? Where's his family?
I don't... there's so many questions
I have almost more questions about these impersonators
Than I do the mixing kid
Yeah, the psychology of it
That's kind of what got me spinning on this was like
Who does that? And why do they do that?
But they all come from like these mysterious
(32:59):
Vives, and the weird part is that they just sort of
Like, nope, wasn't that kid, whoop, disappeared
Off the media, no one is like you and me
Where we're like, wait, wait, wait, wait
Bring that guy back, we've got some questions
I feel like 90% of the media stories, right?
Like they'll tell us something sensational
That's not the part I wanted
And then they never, you never hear about it again
I'm like, I need to know, what happened?
(33:21):
Yeah, I'm right there with you
Where's the consequence? Where's the...
Like I need to know, and it never comes back around
In the news cycle
Well, maybe you'll solve some of these
Timothy Pitson, the Timothy Pitson hoax of 2019
Not very long ago, a man falsely claimed
To be Timothy Pitson, a missing Illinois boy
Only for DNA testing to expose the lie
(33:43):
So obviously, when he was a man
Like say years later, I was that boy
Now here I am
Yeah, so they go on Mori Povich
Or whatever those show is
It's me!
No DNA results
Yes, he is not your father
So what's the longest missing child found alive?
This just happened very, fairly recently
(34:04):
A boy abducted from California in 1951
At age 6
Was found alive on the east coast
More than 70 years later
Wow
Luis Armando Alino was 6 years old in 1951
When he was abducted while playing it in Oakland, California
Park
Yeah
So that's pretty wild
(34:26):
And then here's a picture of him
Meeting up with family
Afterward
So he was just kidnapped by and raised by someone who...
Not that any of this is good
But the best case scenario I think in a kidnapping
Is that someone's gonna raise you in like their own
Yeah
Without anything else
(34:47):
Right, because there's so many other horrible things that can happen
Not selling you to the highest bidder
Right, I'm not saying that this is acceptable
It's not acceptable
Well, you can do it if, as long as you treat that child like
Like it's the king or queen of your world
Okay, wait, one of my favorite, favorite, favorite movies
Is called Raising Arizona
(35:08):
Oh, I love that movie
With Nicholas Cage and I think Holly Hunter
And the premise is they...
This couple, Nicholas Cage, who's a blast
They want a baby so bad
And they find out about this super wealthy family
That had six tuplets
So they had six babies
So they're like, well, they're not gonna miss one
They're gonna miss one
(35:29):
We're just gonna take a little boy
They're like, we're gonna help him out
So they kidnapped one and they love on it
It was a really funny comedy
I remember seeing it and I remember I liked it
But I don't remember anything about it
It would be like it was brand new to watch it again
Let's see here
Oh, so this is interesting
In...
(35:50):
From May 20th to June 24th
Of this last year
Was it this last year?
I think it was
There was this...
Just this organization called
Operation We Will Find You To
And it was to as in the digit to
Because it was a second of its kind
Which is a nationwide missing child operation
(36:13):
And it focused on geographical areas
With high clusters of critically missing children
Children who go missing may be in serious danger
Could be vulnerable to child sex trafficking
Or abuse or exploitation or other crimes against children
So with technical assistance from the National Center
For missing and exploited children
The operation We Will Find You To
Results it in the recovery and removal
(36:35):
Of 123 children from dangerous situations
That's wonderful
An additional 77 missing children were located
And found to be in safe locations
According to law enforcement or child welfare agencies
Of the 200 children found
173 were in dangered runways
25 were considered otherwise missing
One was a family abduction
(36:56):
And one was a non-family abduction
Oh yeah, most abductions are family abductions I've heard
Yep, the youngest child recovered was 5 months old
14 of the children were found outside the city
Where they went missing
And there were only 14 of them
So 186 of them were found within the city
They were taken from
Oh wow, yeah
(37:17):
57% were recovered within 7 days
Of this organization
Is this organization private or is it government?
You know, I don't know
I should know, I'm sorry, I don't
I think it's private
Like maybe it's like, I think I remember seeing it
As a child or volunteer like cops
(37:38):
And investigators
Cool, we're good for them, that's awesome
You know what it makes me think of on the flip side
Is we had these facilities
Where we were putting people who had crossed the border
And didn't have registration and were sending them back
But the kids got separated
Remember when the kids got separated
(38:00):
But we lost children
Like somebody was not keeping track
And now I don't know where they were
And I think about it all the time
Where did they go?
Or are they in the foster care system?
Were they sent over the border without their parents?
Where did they go?
Nobody really cares
(38:22):
There were a ton of them
And some of them were found
But there's still 150 that are unaccounted for
It's inexcusable
It's insane
It's inhumane, it's inexcusable
So, oh, before we wrap up though
It's worth mentioning that this story inspired a
(38:43):
2008 film, Clint Eastwood film
starring Angelina Jolie as Christine Collins
And the movie is called Changeling
What?
Yeah, there's also other versions of it
That's super paranormal, right?
Because the changeling story, isn't that the
story of fairies who kidnap kids
and replace them with a changeling
(39:05):
who looks like your child but isn't
Have you heard of this?
Sort of
Maybe I'll do that for a future podcast
Yeah, do it please
But this one was not paranormal
It was kind of horror suspense but not paranormal
But there's paranormal stories about changelings
I'll lock it away as a future possible
Some artistic liberties were taken for sure
(39:27):
It was based on, loosely, if not more so
based on this story
And it kept attention on a case that
still pretty unsolved
Pretty unsolved
Okay, that
Yeah, so
I hope all the kids are found, I really do
Yeah, me too
And I suspect, personally, I suspect that
Walter Collins probably was one of those victims
(39:48):
It just, the distance, the time of it
Everything going on, the age that he was
It just seems like, yeah, he's probably on that chicken farm somewhere
Maybe we just didn't find him or his roommates
Got mixed up with somebody else's
And they didn't have the technology to
decipher
But maybe not, maybe he lived a full life elsewhere
(40:09):
For some reason
But how different things would have been
If they had just listened
To the mom
To Christine Collins
Yeah
They wasted so much time
They wasted her life
Right, lucky enough
But just saying, ah, she's crazy
Here, take this kid instead, give her the go
But that kid came out on top
(40:31):
Oh yeah, I mean, Disney wasn't around yet
But he was there to see it when it was
Well, when he got there and they sent her away
Who took care of him or was he just on his own?
Cause this is the 20s, right?
So he's probably out on the streets on his own
Well, I guess, I'll just take my satchel and go
My little satchel on a stick
Yeah, that's a good point
(40:52):
Did they, I doubt they put him on a train back to Iowa
They're like, well, kid, good luck
Son, this didn't work out, but this is on you
You said you were him
You little turkey
Now you gotta pay the piper
And by piper, I mean the mean streets of LA
Who knows? Who knows?
(41:14):
Hopefully he turned out alright
But clearly he had his own issues
But I might do the same thing if I was stuck in Iowa
Back in 1928
Iowa wasn't bad, wasn't it?
There's so many wholesome musicals from Iowa
Oh, it would have been the Dust Bowl at that time
Yeah, no thanks
I think
We don't know enough about it
(41:35):
You watch your mouth
Let's find out
Was Iowa, A, when was the Dust Bowl?
And I've read books about this
I should know, Kristen Hannah has a great Dust Bowl
Historical fiction
When was the Dust Bowl?
But I can never remember titles
I'm lucky I remember the author's name was Kristen Hannah
(41:56):
Yeah, I have a hard time remembering
1930 to 1936
It was after
He anticipated the Dust Bowl and he was like, I gotta get out of here
But no, I think it's really wholesome
There's those musicals
That take place in the Midwest
They're super, make it seem like a wholesome town
(42:17):
In Iowa?
I think so
I mean, I know some good people from Iowa
When was like, Carousel Man?
Carousel Man, this was a real nice clam bake
Right in the house
Is that that spider again?
We're getting swarmed
That's a different one
Listen, if they're all coming after me
(42:40):
Dang it
That's a different shape
You got spiders dropping on your car
Probably because we have a pest control guy
That prevents them from coming in the house
So they're all swarming
Carousel, I'm looking at it
Isn't that a movie where there's a girl who gets sexually assaulted?
She gets beat up and she still falls in love with...
She gets raped
(43:02):
Possibly, this is 1956
But was it set in 1956?
Um...
Oh no, the movie was 1956
The musical was 45
But I think it's set in...
Yeah, based on a 1909 play
And the Dust Bowl did hit Iowa
(43:24):
The Dust Bowl
In the 1930s
All the Great Plains States
It's not a good time
That's what sparked the Soil Conservation Act, thank goodness
Let's remember this, people
We need things like that to protect our lands
(43:49):
Yeah, wakala
I'm sorry, I'm looking at musicals in Iowa
In the 1920s
Okay, so the music, man
There's so many good ones
I'm not saying Iowa's a bad place, I'm just saying it's not for me
It's a lot of cornfields and hay and flat
I like my mountains, I like my waters
(44:11):
I'm a Washingtonian, because I'm a Northwest cow
Me too, all day, every day
It could maybe do the East Coast
It was so stormy the other day
And like, gray clouds, and I was like, this is so pretty
Yeah, I don't mind it
I don't want it to persist for weeks on end
I do know the payoff
We get what we get here in greenery and lush nature because of
(44:37):
My dog has been looking out the window at us
The whole time?
The whole time
It's really cute
He's my little white shadow, I just love him
We're parked in my driveway tonight, by the way
Not our typical dance studio parking lot
Right, right
Do you have any homework for the scholars today?
Well shoot, if you get curious about these people
(45:00):
These imposters who pretend to be other people's missing children
Or whatever
We'd love more background information on that
Because I did not dive into that
You always ask the questions for the research I did not do
It's okay
Which is good
Sorry, I do that
Which is good, but it challenges me in a way that I am not prepared for
Yeah, okay
I apologize
Yeah, so scholars, look up some of those imposters and share some more info about them
(45:24):
Because we're curious
It makes me think of like, we're there
Because we were, you know, people were pretty ignorant with people with differences
So I'm wondering if like, were there little people who were...
Oh, have you seen the documentary on Natalia Grace?
No
Okay, I've watched too much TV, clearly
In movies and documentaries, but the one I...
(45:45):
I watch a lot too
Natalia Grace is the story of this family that adopted a little girl
I think...
I think I have heard of this
But she had some kind of developmental disability where her body was smaller
But she was really a lot older than they thought
They're not, and you watch the documentary and I swear, I cannot tell who's telling the truth and who's not
(46:08):
I don't know if this was a little girl that they abandoned at like seven years old
They bought her her own apartment because they were having issues with her
And they thought she was a grown woman
They were convinced, like, this is a grown woman who's playing us
So they bought her an apartment and put her in an apartment
But she might have been a seven-year-old that they just put in an apartment
An actual seven-year-old
Because it's just so hard to tell with her body
(46:30):
She has no family history, she has no real birth certificate
I mean, it's...
But there was obviously some things that made them think
Like, what was she doing?
Like, trying to balance their budgets or...
They could
They claimed that she was acting like an adult
Like, she had mature conversations away from them
She was smoking and going on dates
That they claim that, but they could have been very mistaken
(46:54):
Well, there's all these people who adopt...
Not all these people, I say that so flippantly
There are too many cases, in my opinion, of people who adopt children
And then it's like not the perfect baby or child
And so they, like, abandon it
Like, this family who got all of this social media claim
For adopting this kiddo
(47:16):
Like, they had their own children and they adopted...
Like, their seventh child was adopted from somewhere else
Another country, I believe
Well, come to find out this kiddo's got pretty severe needs with autism
And high-needs autism spectrum disorders
And they gave him back
They gave him up
Like, I wouldn't do that
To one of my dogs
(47:38):
Like, I...
Yeah, I mean, I know it's a different scenario, but...
Totally different
Like, if you get a child...
If that were your child by birth
I would hope you wouldn't abandon them
Because they have special needs
Now I know some people probably do
I hope you wouldn't
But I've heard that you can just bring a child to the police station
(47:59):
Yes, well, we have new laws
Because people were, like, leaving their child in dumpsters
Or leaving them
If they couldn't, like, you know
Maybe they have mental health issues themselves
Or their child themselves
Or desperation, right?
People do desperate things
And so now they have this new laws
Where they actually will have...
I think hospitals have these special, like, heated bin things
(48:22):
Like a repository, like in a library
Yeah, hospitals have right spot conditions
So they can take care of it
Yeah, fire departments are different things
But, yeah, there's laws that say
You can do this and face no recourse for it
It's not abandonment if you take these certain...
So that's the...
We talked last week about how we're doing...
(48:43):
I'm doing something different
Well, we're just keep doing different things
This was more kind of true crime-esque
But the part about the imposters
And the mystery of him not
Who knows where he is, who knows what happened
And then...
Just that phenomenon of treating a mother
Like, she's insane
Yeah, that's why I'm...
Like, she wouldn't know her own child
So we can say we're mostly a paranormal podcast
(49:06):
But we do dip our toes in mystery and the intro
We talk about something that freaks us out
Yeah, freaks us out
That freaks me out, yeah
For sure
What's that?
Well, okay, you have your homework
And that's all I got
Okay, then class dismissed
And don't open the door
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh
(00:02):
The Paranormal Classroom
Welcome back to the Paranormal Classroom where we take attendance for the unexplained
I'm Amanda
And I'm Lindsay and we're two teacher moms talking about stuff that freaks us out
Music
(00:25):
It's toasty and nice in here
So I don't really have an intro question for you
Well I guess I do
It's kind of dark so
Do you want to do what's hunting you?
Oh yeah
I'm just excited
I'm glad you're excited
I had the most mortifying day today
(00:46):
That's a lot
I mean you and I have had some mortifying days
It's horrible Lindsay
I came home from work
I came home from work and I found a giant hole in my dress right under my boob
It was... yeah
How big are we talking?
Woah!
(01:07):
Maybe like this big
That's like a small, well, it's like a chicken nugget size hole
Yes I had a chicken nugget size hole in my dress
Here's the thing, luckily
And you work with adults now
I think goodness I work with adults and not children
No, because that would be inappropriate
But I'm also...
Well I'm assuming you had underwear on
(01:28):
I did, but everybody saw it
And like...
I love my coworkers, I absolutely love them
But I'm really disappointed
No one said anything?
No one said anything
And I know people were looking because I caught people looking
But I never look down because I'm like
I'm not going to like draw attention to my stomach
Or my, you know what I mean?
Like I'm a bigger woman so I just
(01:49):
I'm used to it and I just keep going
I was at home and there was a huge hole
And nobody told me
Girls, girls, you need to help a sister out
Yeah, you need it, that's a real let down in the sisterhood
And it's all women that I work with right
Because they're all teachers
Like somebody, somebody should have been like
Why man, as a friend?
Because they hate me I guess
No, there's no way
That's like, maybe they still feel like they know you well enough
(02:12):
But what better way to break the ice with someone
Than save their life
By saying hey
You got a chicken nugget size hole under your boob
Oh man, I know, it's worse
And also how does that happen?
I don't know, I get cheap clothes from Sheen
So I'm saying that's my pattern
Well there you go, you had it coming
You're getting child labor clothes
(02:33):
Then you deserve a chicken nugget hole
I guess
I'm trying really hard to like
Because this is a new job for me
And it's like a step up
I feel like I'm really trying to like
Step up my presentation of myself
The wardrobe game
My wardrobe game and I just can't
I never feel like I have it together
Every day I go to work and I feel like
Oh my gosh
That's why I love my job
Because the trick is
(02:54):
The trick is to be a specialist
Of some kind
Maybe not the librarian
Because I feel like they still got to look
Profesh
But I'm fine if they don't
And maybe the music teacher
But even then you can relax
PE, steam
We're expected to get smelly, dirty
Wakala, as we say in Spanish
(03:16):
So yeah, I'm wearing whatever I want to wear
T-shirts and jeans most days
Yep, and I used to do that
But now I'm trying to do better
I get it
And every day I'm like, man, it's just not good enough
And now today really, really
Was like a bat to the knee
That's truly the most mortifying thing
That's ever happened to you
No, it's probably the worst
(03:37):
Because I got you beat like a thousand times
Do you want to share it?
No, I do not
Well
A real quick one is that I did in high school
I think it was the end of my junior year
We had this huge outdoor cement stair case
Essentially going down into the
Gym at cafeteria or whatever it is
And the whole school was going for an assembly
(04:01):
In the gym
And I was carrying my backpack
And I was wearing a skirt
Like one of these overall type skirts
But it was flowy
And I tripped and fell down several
Stairs with
And my skirt totally came up over my butt
Everybody saw my underwear
And I could have just picked myself up
(04:23):
Just to myself off
And kept going and then beat right
And just made it to my seat
That's not how I roll
So of course I jump up
Molly Shannon style in SNL
Hands in the air like a gymnastics move
And go I'm okay
(04:44):
Of course you did
I had to make it worse
I always make it worse
Still as an adult
Every time I'm trying to make an awkward situation
Less awkward I make it ten times worse
I have no cause
I think it's actually one of your more redeeming qualities
That you're just so funny
(05:05):
What makes other people feel normal
Yeah
If I can make things
If I'm the weirdo in the room
That everybody else knows it's not them
So I guess you're welcome
So yeah
Alright well what's haunting me
I was
I had a couple of yucky days with a couple classes
Yesterday with a
(05:27):
Second grade class
Today with a third grade class
And I'm just wrestling with was I too hard on them
Or
Should I be that hard on them more often
So that I wouldn't have to you know what I mean
So I know your expectations
Yeah like I was so today especially
So frustrated
So frustrated
(05:49):
There is a chronic issue
And I'm not the only teacher who feels this way
Cause we talk about stuff
Collegially and
We are noticing like a shorter and shorter
Perseverance
Ability so like six seconds
And they've done studies
Like six seconds is the average
(06:12):
American child's attention span
Oh wow
And we see it and we feel it and it is painful
So yeah
I was up against that today with just trying to get them to
Copy something from
An email address
From the board from the TV
Onto their iPad
And it took half the class
(06:34):
Between 10 and 35 minutes
To type my email address
Which is just my first initial
My last name which is six letters
Seven letters six letters
And at
Blah blah blah dot word
(06:55):
That's it
What stumped them the at symbol
Have they not are that familiar with that
Two L's in the school district name
A B instead of a D
Putting an I instead of an L for my first name
Like not spelling my last name
But there's no excuse
It's right there
I understand if you get it wrong
(07:17):
Once, twice, even three times
But first of all don't tell me
It won't let me
Cause it's not a sentient being out to get you
It's an iPad and if you do it correctly
It will work for you
I promise
So I hear that all the time
And then yeah just the same kids
(07:39):
Making the same mistakes
Over and over and over again
And I'm like this guys is the definition of insanity
We don't have time to go into that right now
But you are literally making the same error
15 times
I gave up my lunch period
Because they I was like
They had to turn it in assignment this way
And I'm just like it can't be this hard
(08:01):
And so then I was just stubborn about it
Like there wasn't any other way for them to turn it in anyway
But it was also just like
Truly how long can this go
Well 35 minutes for some kids
Wow
25 minutes after class was done
I still had six kids in my classroom
Nine year olds who should be able to read
(08:22):
Then at least copy things down
But some don't have letter recognition
Yeah maybe they can't
But you know it was wild
But let your kids be bored
Let them be bored
Quit putting stuff in their hands like devices all the time
Let them be bored
It's amazing how creative they'll get
And how they'll read and talk
(08:44):
And get cardboard out
And start building things
Yeah it's awesome
And get along better with their siblings
Because they'll be forced to play together
And that's bugging me I just I don't know
Alrighty well tomorrow's a new day
Clean slate start over
To get into it
(09:06):
Have you ever known anybody personally
Who has disappeared?
Oh I actually have but I can't talk about it
Because it's work related
Whoa okay well don't
Yeah obviously
Now I'm fixated on that I can't think of another one
So I guess not I've seen like come across my Facebook pictures
(09:29):
Of like people friends of friends posting
Please look out for this kid
Yes yes yes I've definitely seen that
But not no
It's kind of the modern day milk carton
Is the Facebook post
So I only know of one and I didn't know her very well
But she was friends with my sister
They're the same age and she disappeared
(09:50):
I want to say when they were about 17
And they ended up finding her remains
Oh no that's so sad
So don't know if she was a runaway
Or if she got involved with some people who
When a fairy is or if she was kidnapped or what
Nobody ever really seemed to
I never found that I'm sure somebody
Obviously somebody knows something but
(10:11):
It wasn't me
Wow
It was the sweetest, nicest, like shy little thing
That's horrible
Did you know that our president Teddy Roosevelt
Did he got lost he just disappeared during his term
Of being president
He was like really really he's my husband's favorite president
(10:33):
Because he was crazy like in hilarious ways
He was very adventurous
He went hunting and hiking and outdoors
He's the one who like put together all our national parks and things
But he just one day is like I gotta get out of here
And somehow his team of people who are responsible for
Keeping an eye on the president lost him
(10:54):
He was like I'm gonna go out and then he like disappeared in the woods
Did they not have like what they have now like secret service wise
I think they did but I think they still lost him
He got him off his tail
He got him off his tail he's like I gotta just gotta be in the woods for a few days
And he disappeared they lost track of him
And he came back a few days later but he just had his own little walkabout
Good for him
I bet they all need to do that
(11:16):
Maybe they should all disappear every once in a while
He's also the president who said
You're not a man until you've killed somebody
So he's got a lot he's a very fascinating person
I think he's she was that tight Mr. Rillin' up
I do
But did you ever see do you know the Bear Grylls show
Like into the wild or whatever it's called
That just popped up on my Netflix yeah
(11:37):
The Bear Grylls versus Wild
I don't know what it's called
But I know the guy who was Bear Grylls
The one with Obama
President Obama
No he was on the show
Fantastic yes it was after his presidency
But he and he talks about how he didn't have a cell phone
During his presidency which the times have changed
Right
But and so he didn't really know how to use one until afterward
(11:59):
In a while
It is wild I would think that he would have had a cell phone
No cause it's like got tracking in different things
And they didn't want him to but
Somebody has changed the rules
Well yeah so that's kind of just a
Get you started thinking about this
We're going to be talking a little bit about missing kids
But then there's also a twist to the missing kid thing
(12:21):
So here we go
What happens when justice fails
When a grieving mother's worst nightmare becomes a national
National scandal
And when an unrelated but gruesome crime spree
Weaves itself into the story of one missing boy
Okay
Yeah
(12:42):
So today we're going to dive into the haunting case of Walter Collins
He was a nine year old boy who vanished from Los Angeles in 1928
Well I'm already sad
Yeah
But in 1928 that was a very different time right
Sure you had 13 kids cause you knew you were going to lose six of them
Yeah and I'm thinking about also like Annie
I just went to see the production of Annie and like they had orphanages
(13:05):
They had kids on the street
They had even new newsies
Yeah so kids were kind of fending for themselves a little more
Not only did you have to sell papers but you had to sing and dance
For a penny
Yeah it is in the happy story
Okay
Fair warning
His disappearance became a sensationalized mystery made even more horrific by its potential connection
(13:31):
To a series of crimes that we'll get into more later
Okay
This case exposes corruption, desperation and the terrifying reality
Reality that sometimes the truth is even stranger than fiction
Okay
Wait is this a solved?
Is this a solved or unsolved?
I would say it's like questionably solved
(13:55):
You can make me put that question in the parking lot and we can come back to it
Put it in the parking lot
Here's your sticky note
Alright so let's go back to March 10th 1928
Okay
It was a typical day in Los Angeles
So smoggy, swelteringly hot, loud and gross
I lived there for a year I think it's fair for me to say that
(14:18):
Walter's mother Christine Collins gave him a dime to go see a movie
A dime for a movie
A nine year old, here's a dime sonny go see that flick
You don't want to see
You got a spider coming down
Inside?
I don't know if it's inside or outside but don't worry he's not too close to you
He might have just been on the outside
Sorry everybody, just a spider but uh
(14:39):
Did you see it though?
I saw it at the very end
Turn on the big boy
I think he's out in the outside
We would see him if you were inside
Because he was pushing into that space between my window and door frame
I just about climbed in your lap
Did you see that?
What's that like?
That like spikers, just like a few inches away from home
I don't like it when I respect spiders
(15:01):
They do a good thing
But I do not want them on me
You have to go back because I was distracted by that thing floating down by your face
Good lord, jeez, oh my
Sorry everybody
Okay we're gonna back up a little bit
Oh god
Do you need a Girl Scout cookie and then we can
No, I've already had four
Okay
Alrighty
(15:22):
Um
Mwah mwah mwah
Go back a little bit so she gave him a dime
So she gives him a dime to go see that flick he wants to see
Uh huh
And in the days and weeks that followed
His disappearance sparked a massive search
So he just went and he never came home
Well I would never let my nine year old go to him by themselves
No
And maybe it's because this was the first
(15:43):
This was the like the event
Maybe
That set off all of us being afraid to let our kids out
That didn't really seem to start to happen until like the 80s
When like the white van
Stuff started happening
Um
So
Witnesses claim to have seen little Walter Collins
In various places
That happens all the time
(16:04):
Anytime somebody goes missing
They're like oh I saw him here and I saw him here
Like states away
I saw him doing it
Yeah but people aren't reliable
No
They just want to be a part of something
Some people desperately want to help
Or genuinely want to help
But it's false
It's
Yeah, witness testimony is flawed
But no solid leads ever materialized
His mother desperate and determined
(16:26):
She never gave up hope
Then
Five months later
There was a breakthrough
Or so it seemed
A boy in Illinois
So we're in California
Walter's in California
A boy in Illinois
Five months later
Claimed to be Walter Collins
Whoa
The police under intense pressure to solve the case
Quickly arranged for his return to Los Angeles
(16:48):
Christine was of course
Overwhelmed with relief
Until she saw him
Oh my gosh
The boy standing before her
Wasn't Walter
So they sent some kid
Didn't they have a photo?
Did they have a photo to confirm?
Before they flew him or drove him
I don't think they cared
(17:09):
Across the country
I think they were like
This kid says he's him
Why would a kid do that if it's not
Okay but you gotta check that
Think about it because
Well because of what's happening now
That part where I said this is about corruption
Okay
This is part of that
So it gets worse for poor Christine
(17:31):
But yeah
That's exactly what I thought you would say is
Well how did the police act?
When she said yo this ain't my kid
Yes
Here's how they reacted
Instead of admitting they made a mistake
The LAPD insisted she was wrong
That
The your crazy
That is the ultimate gas landing
And there has ever been gas landing
That's crazy
Can you imagine?
(17:52):
So they encouraged her to quote
Try him out
What the heck is wrong with these men?
I know
As if he were a replacement
Not a missing child
I give this one a go
How old is this kid?
He's nine and a half
Nine and a half, ten now
The boy
It's a right age
Was he like a seventeen year old?
I think he was the same age
(18:13):
Between nine and eleven
Wow
Yeah
Christine determined to prove the truth
Brought dental records
And even spoke to Walter's teachers and friends
Get it, Maram
They all confirmed this boy was not Walter Collins
But
The police refused to admit their mistake
Instead
They accused Christine of suffering from hysteria
(18:35):
And committed her to the L.A. County Hospital Psychiatric Ward
This is
Crazy
Oh yeah
Oh yeah
It's gonna start happening
It's horrible for the kid too
Like we can't
Like I don't know the kid's story
I don't know what he's playing at
Right
But to be taken across the country and then have this one
And it doesn't want him
Whatever he
I don't know what his play is
(18:56):
But
Horrible for the kid too
Yeah
She was silenced, institutionalized and labeled insane
Did she have a husband?
No
It's her and this boy
Oh my gosh
Yeah
So
Yeah
All because she just dared to question the authorities
About her own child that came out of her
(19:17):
VJJ
Wow
Her womb
And she's like
That is not my
I just saw him five months ago
That's not my kid
I know my child from a sea of kids
Where in the same uniform
Out on a baseball field
All in a practice
35, 40 of them
I am, my eyes immediately go to him
(19:38):
Every single time
And he's not purple
He's not 18 feet tall or 3 feet tall
He looks like the rest
But my mama instincts know his gait
The way he carried
Like just everything about him
My attention goes right to him
Every single time
Right
I would just want to punch people if I were her
Maybe she did it
(19:59):
Maybe that's what
Maybe that's what
That's what
Yeah
You're just crazy lady
But you and I talk about that all the time
That people will often treat women
Who advocate for themselves
Stand up for themselves
Yeah
And I'm not wrong
That you are crazy, stupid or a bitch
Yeah
And this is literally my worst fear
(20:20):
I'm so glad that I'm born now
In now times
Because it was my
It's my greatest fear
Watching all the like old movies
And learning about history
Or just that women could just be
Put away in these mental institutions
Just for being a little bit cranky
Or just for like questioning authority
Like you said
There's so many times in my life
When I have to stand up for myself
(20:43):
And you wouldn't
It would be a whole different life
You would be censoring that constantly
Staying sweet
Keeping smiling
Putting up with all kinds of like
Abuse of your boundaries
And even worse
Just so you wouldn't be
It's torment
Sent away
Yeah
And I
There's you know the whole
Handmaid's Tale thing
And how we're sort of on a slippery slope
(21:04):
Toward those days
You know it's not
It was a warning
Not an instruction manual
And it seems like a lot of people in power
Are using it as an instruction manual
As well as other books
Like 1984
And Animal Farm
And things like that
But it's like guys
These were not meant for you to copy
The stories within
They are meant to
Serve as a warning
Against letting this happen
(21:25):
So hopefully
We never go back to this
But I don't know
This poor woman though
I know
I know
I can't even imagine
Yeah
And she even got
All the community members
Were like agreed with her
And it still was not enough
Probably because all the other teachers
Were women too
So yeah
Oh yeah yeah
Yeah so
Who was this kid
(21:46):
He asked that like
I don't know what this kid's story is
Well the boy finally admitted
That he wasn't Walter
Surprise
Do we let her out of the
Mental institution now?
Eventually
His real name was
Arthur Hutchins
And he was a runaway from Iowa
Who had taken advantage
Of the situation
To get a free ride to California
(22:07):
I kind of love that
For Arthur
A nine year old ten year old brain
Get me out of Iowa
Yeah I'm him
Walter Collins
Sounds good
Let me get to California
I want to see the ocean
Yes
I mean I kind of like the tenacity
So the police had spent months
Forcing a grieving mother to accept
A lie all because
They wanted to close the case
(22:29):
Not the first time
Won't be the last
I think in today's age
You could sue
She does
She does later
I can't remember
It's been a while since I wrote this
So I can't remember
If it was successful or not
But she does sue the police
Good
Walter Collins was still missing
And while Christine fought for her freedom
Another horrifying story
Was unraveling in Wineville
(22:51):
A small town in Riverside County
In California
Okay
Enter Gordon Stuart Northcott
A name that would soon become
Infamous
He and his mother Sarah Louise Northcott
Ran a chicken farm
That concealed something far more sinister
In 1928
Authorities began investigating Northcott
(23:12):
For kidnapping and abuse
And what they discovered was horrifying
The bodies of multiple boys
Oh
Yep
Some as young as Walter
Were found on the property
Northcott had lured
And murdered victims
In what became known as
The Wineville Chicken Coop Murders
Ew
Yeah
Why?
And you know what's crazier
(23:33):
I don't have any notes
But I know from my research
Is that the father of this man
Knew that his kid was nutso
And left
He was like
This son of ours is bonkers
I'm out of here
I'm not gonna stick around
To see what finds out
He left
The dad took off
The family left the farm
And he was like
I am not
(23:54):
No lady
You are on your own
If you wanna stand by this kid
So he took off
Rather than like
I don't know what you could have done
But maybe throw that guy in an asylum
Uh-huh
No, he's a man
I can't do that
I know
So how old was this
Was the Gordon guy?
He was in his 30s I believe
And he was the murderer
He was not old
(24:15):
And then his mom
She was in the 50s
She was the accomplice
Yeah, she knew
As well as the chickens
Well, they weren't talking
They sure weren't talking
But maybe they weren't
We just didn't understand
So at the same time
That the public was gripped
By a growing panic over time
And a growing panic over child abductions
Like you said
Yep
In media coverage of both
(24:36):
Walter Collins' disappearance
And the Lionville case
People were on edge
And it's also LA
So sensationalism
In the headlines
Blurred the line between fact and speculation
Feeding into nationwide paranoia
So
Here's where things get
A little more heartbreaking
Is that
We don't know for sure
(24:58):
But they suspect that
Walter was one of Northcott's victims
Yeah, and they can't
Do the same kind of
DNA testing that they would do today
No
So
While Northcott confessed
To killing several boys
Including one he initially claimed
Was Walter Collins
He later recanted
(25:19):
I love it when they do that
Crazy-ish
They say, yeah, yeah, yeah
It was me, I did it
Confess everything
And then
You go to hold the count to it
And they recant
Nevermind, nevermind
Nope, nope, I didn't mean it
I always find that weird
When they're like interviewed
So they catch a killer
They're interviewing them
And they're like, did you kill this person?
Did you kill this person?
Like, why do we assume
(25:40):
That a killer is even going to remember
What if they never even ask the people's name?
What if they don't remember their faces
Because they're in some altered state of consciousness?
I don't know what it's like to be a killer
So I don't, I mean
I don't know what their state of mind is
And I just think it's weird that they ask them
These kind of questions
And then you wouldn't expect them to tell the truth
(26:02):
Necessarily because they're already
Like, something's wrong with them
Or tell the truth one way or the other
Like, there's been a lot of people
Who have admitted to things that they never did
That's true too
Because they're just, they're sick
And they want the attention
Which is bonkers
But, yeah, it happens
So, the police found remains
Belonging to other victims
(26:23):
But Walter's body was never recovered
So, Christine Collins never accepted the fact
That her son was dead
She spent the rest of her life searching for him
Even after Northcott was convicted
And executed in 1930
I think every mom would do that
I think until you have your actual proof
You're going to have that hope
I've heard different things from moms
(26:44):
I feel like some moms
And I think it ties into kind of spiritual connection too
Some moms have said like
I know she's dead
I know what he said
And others are like, no, I know they're still alive
I know they're out there somewhere
And it's hard to know if it's just that wish
Or do they really have a spiritual connection
(27:07):
That they just haven't felt it's severed yet
I don't know
I don't ever want to know
I don't ever want to know
Oh, golly
As Northcott's trial played out
So we know he was executed
But as his trial played out
Christine took her fight to the court
Suing the LAPD
Good
Yep, for their gross misconduct
(27:29):
In 1931, oh here it is, that's right
She won a lawsuit against Captain J.J. Jones
The officer who had forced her into the psychiatric ward
But he never fully paid the damages
Christine's struggle for justice
Exposed the LAPD's corruption
But it couldn't bring her son back, of course
The town of Wineville was so traumatized by the crimes
(27:51):
That it actually changed its name to Mira Loma
It's no longer called Wineville
I don't know that town, do you know it?
I've heard of it, but I've never been there
What's Mira Loma mean?
A mirror or lake?
Mira means look
So it's Loma, I don't even know what Loma means
But there's a lot of like, I feel like Loma Linda
Loma?
(28:12):
Oh, yeah, Siri
What does Loma mean in Spanish?
Loma
Right, but what does it mean?
Oh, starting to tell me
Oh, I have my phone right here
Who's gonna get it first?
Oh, it's a hill
Look, hill
(28:34):
Yeah, or overlook
Let's see, maybe it's like Mira Loma
Like an overlooking eye, you can go to a place where you look out
Like where you can take a vista
Where you can pull over on the side of a highway
Or whatever, take pictures of a pretty view
Maybe it's like that
It's not to be confused with Loka
Which means something very different
Look, it means crazy, right?
(28:55):
Okie dokie, let's get back into it
They just changed the name of their town?
Yes, it's totally with you
Mira Loma now, because they wanted to erase its connection to the murders
Which I don't really blame them, but if every town did that, jeez
The map would be changing every 12 hours
Detroit?
Detroit's on its 176th name
(29:18):
Oh gosh
So there are people who still believe that Walter could have survived
That he could still be alive
But he wasn't one of the ones
He could have, they didn't find any evidence
Yeah, so there's some theories
Some believe Walter might have been kidnapped by someone else entirely
While others think he could have escaped Northcott
But was too traumatized to return home
With no definitive evidence proving his death
(29:41):
The question of what really happened to Walter Collins remains unanswered to this day
And this isn't the only time a missing child came
Or a missing child came
Let me back up, delete, delete, try again
This isn't the only time a missing child case
Took a bizarre turn with an imposter
I love an imposter story
(30:03):
I think that's so funny
That little dude, Arthur
I just want to get to California
And he's, you know, he's hacking papers on the corner
And he sees that this kid's gone missing
Uh-huh
He has my chance and sees the day
Oh gosh, okay
(30:24):
There's a guy named Frédéric Baudin, the chameleon
He was a French con artist who spent years
This is hysterical to me
A man, full grown man, who spent years impersonating missing children
Most famously deceiving a Texas family
Wait, wait, wait, what's this man look like?
So, a barely pretty child like
(30:47):
He must have something where he's allergic to his own hair follicles
And not growing a beard
Yes, I don't understand
But he deceived a Texas family in 1997
Oh no, that's really recent
I gotta see, if it's 97 there's gonna be a picture of him, right?
He had them believing he was their missing son, Nicholas Barclay
Why? For why?
(31:08):
Is there like a reward in the con artist?
They just want attention, I guess
Or the thrill of the con
Which I guess is, you know, when not murderers, we're also not con artists
So, although being a teacher sometimes feels like being a con artist
Okay, hang on, what was his name again?
The real missing kid was Nicholas Barclay
And the imposter was Frédéric Baudin
(31:31):
Bourbonne, which is B-O-U-R-D-I-N
Oh, there's a picture of him
There is no way that anyone would think this was a child
I can't wait to see it
There is the chameleon
Wait, hang on
Maybe he had like, he was really good with
(31:53):
Like, what's that stuff called?
Stage makeup?
Yeah, filters?
He was awesome on Snapchat
Make it bigger, but look at him, he's got wrinkles on his forehead
He's a grown man
He's not a receiving hairline that doesn't click
That's not a child
No way!
What?
(32:15):
I don't know, man
And then there was the case of Bobby Dunbar in 1912
He was a young boy who disappeared in Louisiana
And a child found months later
Was given to the Dunbar family
Where they found that child, I don't know
But they're like, here's another child
In DNA testing, decades later
Revealed he wasn't actually Bobby
(32:37):
So who was that guy? Who was that kid? Where's his family?
I don't... there's so many questions
I have almost more questions about these impersonators
Than I do the mixing kid
Yeah, the psychology of it
That's kind of what got me spinning on this was like
Who does that? And why do they do that?
But they all come from like these mysterious
(32:59):
Vives, and the weird part is that they just sort of
Like, nope, wasn't that kid, whoop, disappeared
Off the media, no one is like you and me
Where we're like, wait, wait, wait, wait
Bring that guy back, we've got some questions
I feel like 90% of the media stories, right?
Like they'll tell us something sensational
That's not the part I wanted
And then they never, you never hear about it again
I'm like, I need to know, what happened?
(33:21):
Yeah, I'm right there with you
Where's the consequence? Where's the...
Like I need to know, and it never comes back around
In the news cycle
Well, maybe you'll solve some of these
Timothy Pitson, the Timothy Pitson hoax of 2019
Not very long ago, a man falsely claimed
To be Timothy Pitson, a missing Illinois boy
Only for DNA testing to expose the lie
(33:43):
So obviously, when he was a man
Like say years later, I was that boy
Now here I am
Yeah, so they go on Mori Povich
Or whatever those show is
It's me!
No DNA results
Yes, he is not your father
So what's the longest missing child found alive?
This just happened very, fairly recently
(34:04):
A boy abducted from California in 1951
At age 6
Was found alive on the east coast
More than 70 years later
Wow
Luis Armando Alino was 6 years old in 1951
When he was abducted while playing it in Oakland, California
Park
Yeah
So that's pretty wild
(34:26):
And then here's a picture of him
Meeting up with family
Afterward
So he was just kidnapped by and raised by someone who...
Not that any of this is good
But the best case scenario I think in a kidnapping
Is that someone's gonna raise you in like their own
Yeah
Without anything else
(34:47):
Right, because there's so many other horrible things that can happen
Not selling you to the highest bidder
Right, I'm not saying that this is acceptable
It's not acceptable
Well, you can do it if, as long as you treat that child like
Like it's the king or queen of your world
Okay, wait, one of my favorite, favorite, favorite movies
Is called Raising Arizona
(35:08):
Oh, I love that movie
With Nicholas Cage and I think Holly Hunter
And the premise is they...
This couple, Nicholas Cage, who's a blast
They want a baby so bad
And they find out about this super wealthy family
That had six tuplets
So they had six babies
So they're like, well, they're not gonna miss one
They're gonna miss one
(35:29):
We're just gonna take a little boy
They're like, we're gonna help him out
So they kidnapped one and they love on it
It was a really funny comedy
I remember seeing it and I remember I liked it
But I don't remember anything about it
It would be like it was brand new to watch it again
Let's see here
Oh, so this is interesting
In...
(35:50):
From May 20th to June 24th
Of this last year
Was it this last year?
I think it was
There was this...
Just this organization called
Operation We Will Find You To
And it was to as in the digit to
Because it was a second of its kind
Which is a nationwide missing child operation
(36:13):
And it focused on geographical areas
With high clusters of critically missing children
Children who go missing may be in serious danger
Could be vulnerable to child sex trafficking
Or abuse or exploitation or other crimes against children
So with technical assistance from the National Center
For missing and exploited children
The operation We Will Find You To
Results it in the recovery and removal
(36:35):
Of 123 children from dangerous situations
That's wonderful
An additional 77 missing children were located
And found to be in safe locations
According to law enforcement or child welfare agencies
Of the 200 children found
173 were in dangered runways
25 were considered otherwise missing
One was a family abduction
(36:56):
And one was a non-family abduction
Oh yeah, most abductions are family abductions I've heard
Yep, the youngest child recovered was 5 months old
14 of the children were found outside the city
Where they went missing
And there were only 14 of them
So 186 of them were found within the city
They were taken from
Oh wow, yeah
(37:17):
57% were recovered within 7 days
Of this organization
Is this organization private or is it government?
You know, I don't know
I should know, I'm sorry, I don't
I think it's private
Like maybe it's like, I think I remember seeing it
As a child or volunteer like cops
(37:38):
And investigators
Cool, we're good for them, that's awesome
You know what it makes me think of on the flip side
Is we had these facilities
Where we were putting people who had crossed the border
And didn't have registration and were sending them back
But the kids got separated
Remember when the kids got separated
(38:00):
But we lost children
Like somebody was not keeping track
And now I don't know where they were
And I think about it all the time
Where did they go?
Or are they in the foster care system?
Were they sent over the border without their parents?
Where did they go?
Nobody really cares
(38:22):
There were a ton of them
And some of them were found
But there's still 150 that are unaccounted for
It's inexcusable
It's insane
It's inhumane, it's inexcusable
So, oh, before we wrap up though
It's worth mentioning that this story inspired a
(38:43):
2008 film, Clint Eastwood film
starring Angelina Jolie as Christine Collins
And the movie is called Changeling
What?
Yeah, there's also other versions of it
That's super paranormal, right?
Because the changeling story, isn't that the
story of fairies who kidnap kids
and replace them with a changeling
(39:05):
who looks like your child but isn't
Have you heard of this?
Sort of
Maybe I'll do that for a future podcast
Yeah, do it please
But this one was not paranormal
It was kind of horror suspense but not paranormal
But there's paranormal stories about changelings
I'll lock it away as a future possible
Some artistic liberties were taken for sure
(39:27):
It was based on, loosely, if not more so
based on this story
And it kept attention on a case that
still pretty unsolved
Pretty unsolved
Okay, that
Yeah, so
I hope all the kids are found, I really do
Yeah, me too
And I suspect, personally, I suspect that
Walter Collins probably was one of those victims
(39:48):
It just, the distance, the time of it
Everything going on, the age that he was
It just seems like, yeah, he's probably on that chicken farm somewhere
Maybe we just didn't find him or his roommates
Got mixed up with somebody else's
And they didn't have the technology to
decipher
But maybe not, maybe he lived a full life elsewhere
(40:09):
For some reason
But how different things would have been
If they had just listened
To the mom
To Christine Collins
Yeah
They wasted so much time
They wasted her life
Right, lucky enough
But just saying, ah, she's crazy
Here, take this kid instead, give her the go
But that kid came out on top
(40:31):
Oh yeah, I mean, Disney wasn't around yet
But he was there to see it when it was
Well, when he got there and they sent her away
Who took care of him or was he just on his own?
Cause this is the 20s, right?
So he's probably out on the streets on his own
Well, I guess, I'll just take my satchel and go
My little satchel on a stick
Yeah, that's a good point
(40:52):
Did they, I doubt they put him on a train back to Iowa
They're like, well, kid, good luck
Son, this didn't work out, but this is on you
You said you were him
You little turkey
Now you gotta pay the piper
And by piper, I mean the mean streets of LA
Who knows? Who knows?
(41:14):
Hopefully he turned out alright
But clearly he had his own issues
But I might do the same thing if I was stuck in Iowa
Back in 1928
Iowa wasn't bad, wasn't it?
There's so many wholesome musicals from Iowa
Oh, it would have been the Dust Bowl at that time
Yeah, no thanks
I think
We don't know enough about it
(41:35):
You watch your mouth
Let's find out
Was Iowa, A, when was the Dust Bowl?
And I've read books about this
I should know, Kristen Hannah has a great Dust Bowl
Historical fiction
When was the Dust Bowl?
But I can never remember titles
I'm lucky I remember the author's name was Kristen Hannah
(41:56):
Yeah, I have a hard time remembering
1930 to 1936
It was after
He anticipated the Dust Bowl and he was like, I gotta get out of here
But no, I think it's really wholesome
There's those musicals
That take place in the Midwest
They're super, make it seem like a wholesome town
(42:17):
In Iowa?
I think so
I mean, I know some good people from Iowa
When was like, Carousel Man?
Carousel Man, this was a real nice clam bake
Right in the house
Is that that spider again?
We're getting swarmed
That's a different one
Listen, if they're all coming after me
(42:40):
Dang it
That's a different shape
You got spiders dropping on your car
Probably because we have a pest control guy
That prevents them from coming in the house
So they're all swarming
Carousel, I'm looking at it
Isn't that a movie where there's a girl who gets sexually assaulted?
She gets beat up and she still falls in love with...
She gets raped
(43:02):
Possibly, this is 1956
But was it set in 1956?
Um...
Oh no, the movie was 1956
The musical was 45
But I think it's set in...
Yeah, based on a 1909 play
And the Dust Bowl did hit Iowa
(43:24):
The Dust Bowl
In the 1930s
All the Great Plains States
It's not a good time
That's what sparked the Soil Conservation Act, thank goodness
Let's remember this, people
We need things like that to protect our lands
(43:49):
Yeah, wakala
I'm sorry, I'm looking at musicals in Iowa
In the 1920s
Okay, so the music, man
There's so many good ones
I'm not saying Iowa's a bad place, I'm just saying it's not for me
It's a lot of cornfields and hay and flat
I like my mountains, I like my waters
(44:11):
I'm a Washingtonian, because I'm a Northwest cow
Me too, all day, every day
It could maybe do the East Coast
It was so stormy the other day
And like, gray clouds, and I was like, this is so pretty
Yeah, I don't mind it
I don't want it to persist for weeks on end
I do know the payoff
We get what we get here in greenery and lush nature because of
(44:37):
My dog has been looking out the window at us
The whole time?
The whole time
It's really cute
He's my little white shadow, I just love him
We're parked in my driveway tonight, by the way
Not our typical dance studio parking lot
Right, right
Do you have any homework for the scholars today?
Well shoot, if you get curious about these people
(45:00):
These imposters who pretend to be other people's missing children
Or whatever
We'd love more background information on that
Because I did not dive into that
You always ask the questions for the research I did not do
It's okay
Which is good
Sorry, I do that
Which is good, but it challenges me in a way that I am not prepared for
Yeah, okay
I apologize
Yeah, so scholars, look up some of those imposters and share some more info about them
(45:24):
Because we're curious
It makes me think of like, we're there
Because we were, you know, people were pretty ignorant with people with differences
So I'm wondering if like, were there little people who were...
Oh, have you seen the documentary on Natalia Grace?
No
Okay, I've watched too much TV, clearly
In movies and documentaries, but the one I...
(45:45):
I watch a lot too
Natalia Grace is the story of this family that adopted a little girl
I think...
I think I have heard of this
But she had some kind of developmental disability where her body was smaller
But she was really a lot older than they thought
They're not, and you watch the documentary and I swear, I cannot tell who's telling the truth and who's not
(46:08):
I don't know if this was a little girl that they abandoned at like seven years old
They bought her her own apartment because they were having issues with her
And they thought she was a grown woman
They were convinced, like, this is a grown woman who's playing us
So they bought her an apartment and put her in an apartment
But she might have been a seven-year-old that they just put in an apartment
An actual seven-year-old
Because it's just so hard to tell with her body
(46:30):
She has no family history, she has no real birth certificate
I mean, it's...
But there was obviously some things that made them think
Like, what was she doing?
Like, trying to balance their budgets or...
They could
They claimed that she was acting like an adult
Like, she had mature conversations away from them
She was smoking and going on dates
That they claim that, but they could have been very mistaken
(46:54):
Well, there's all these people who adopt...
Not all these people, I say that so flippantly
There are too many cases, in my opinion, of people who adopt children
And then it's like not the perfect baby or child
And so they, like, abandon it
Like, this family who got all of this social media claim
For adopting this kiddo
(47:16):
Like, they had their own children and they adopted...
Like, their seventh child was adopted from somewhere else
Another country, I believe
Well, come to find out this kiddo's got pretty severe needs with autism
And high-needs autism spectrum disorders
And they gave him back
They gave him up
Like, I wouldn't do that
To one of my dogs
(47:38):
Like, I...
Yeah, I mean, I know it's a different scenario, but...
Totally different
Like, if you get a child...
If that were your child by birth
I would hope you wouldn't abandon them
Because they have special needs
Now I know some people probably do
I hope you wouldn't
But I've heard that you can just bring a child to the police station
(47:59):
Yes, well, we have new laws
Because people were, like, leaving their child in dumpsters
Or leaving them
If they couldn't, like, you know
Maybe they have mental health issues themselves
Or their child themselves
Or desperation, right?
People do desperate things
And so now they have this new laws
Where they actually will have...
I think hospitals have these special, like, heated bin things
(48:22):
Like a repository, like in a library
Yeah, hospitals have right spot conditions
So they can take care of it
Yeah, fire departments are different things
But, yeah, there's laws that say
You can do this and face no recourse for it
It's not abandonment if you take these certain...
So that's the...
We talked last week about how we're doing...
(48:43):
I'm doing something different
Well, we're just keep doing different things
This was more kind of true crime-esque
But the part about the imposters
And the mystery of him not
Who knows where he is, who knows what happened
And then...
Just that phenomenon of treating a mother
Like, she's insane
Yeah, that's why I'm...
Like, she wouldn't know her own child
So we can say we're mostly a paranormal podcast
(49:06):
But we do dip our toes in mystery and the intro
We talk about something that freaks us out
Yeah, freaks us out
That freaks me out, yeah
For sure
What's that?
Well, okay, you have your homework
And that's all I got
Okay, then class dismissed
And don't open the door
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