Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Parent
Equation podcast with me, Aisha
Murray.
This podcast series is full ofinspiring stories from working
parents who are passionate aboutdesigning a life that works for
them and their families.
Working parents like you whowant a purposeful, rewarding
career alongside a balancedfamily life.
Today I'm joined by JaneMcKenna.
(00:27):
Jane is the founder ofBrilliant Meat Coaching and a
mum of two.
So welcome, Jane.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Thank you very much.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Now the first
question I have for you.
It's a fairly standard questionwhen it comes to people who've
changed career and with theirkids.
What happens after you had yourchildren, or maybe your first
child?
How does that change yourperspective on your career and
what might that look like foryou?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, it was so
interesting.
I'd been, prior to having myson, i'd been in the same
company for 12 and a half yearsand I was steadily sort of
working my way up the careerladder And I think until I had
my son, i started my family.
It didn't occur to me that mycareer trajectory might go in a
(01:13):
different direction And all ofthe other thing is that you
could approach your careerdifferently.
So I just thought you turn up,do the work, you get promoted
and carry on going.
And it took me a really, reallylong time from that point of
having my son working out theapproach that I wanted to take.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And do you think if
you hadn't had your son, do you
think he would have probablystayed then in the career you
were in?
I think it was retail, isn't itSort of add in for an item?
Or do you think your mindsetwould have taken you somewhere
anyway?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Interesting question.
I think if I'd have stayed so Iwas also then after having my
son made redundant from thatrole And, interestingly for me,
like I loved my job, i lovedeverything about it, i loved the
culture of the business, butactually the role that I did was
quite untenable having a familybecause I used to travel a lot
(02:13):
for quite long periods of time.
So I think the change in thecircumstances would have made it
untenable for me to continuedoing the job that I loved.
And that's what I discoveredonce after that redundancy, i
started looking for like forlike roles and discovered how
hard that was going to be.
(02:34):
So if I hadn't started a family, i think I probably would have
continued in that vein.
How did the company culture hadbeen one that I thrived in, but
, as we'll come on and talkabout in a minute, i then found
myself in a few cultures thatwere very difficult for me to
(02:59):
thrive in, and that was thecatalyst for a lot of the
changes that I've subsequentlymade in my career.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Okay, so after your
son you stayed.
That wasn't the complete careerchange moment at that point.
No, no.
What happened after that then?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
What that did do was,
if you think of your career as
a line mine that was goingsteadily upwards then I'm trying
to think officially what itmight have looked like.
I mean, someone, someone'stoddler in control of her pen
would be probably how I wouldthink about it, because I wanted
(03:37):
to work.
it was extremely important tome to keep working.
However, i wasn't aligning myany of the things that were
important to me apart from thefact that I only wanted to work
four days.
That was my primary focus.
So that was my, that was myonly decision making driver.
(03:58):
So I, in that time I did.
I did some contract work, i didsome consultancy work.
I I completely changed careersector for a while into tech,
then came back into retail Andsubsequently, because I was
taking, i was not reallyconsidering the role in the
(04:22):
round I then sort of ended up bythe time my daughter, my second
child, started school and myjob had I was, in that event, by
that point, working for a bigretailer And my job role changed
.
The balance then wentcompletely the wrong way.
It I was no longer actuallyfulfilled at all in my role, but
(04:44):
I was spending a lot of timeout of the home, and that's when
I knew things were had had.
I needed to make a change.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
The catalyst one
first child led to I spoke maybe
four or five years of thistoddler with pen, scenario
Exactly.
And then catalyst two secondchild.
then gave you a further, isuppose further prompt to say
hold on a minute, what's goingon?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, and I started
it started to think that there
needed to be a plan B.
But when you're working almostfull time and then you've got
two children at home, it's quitedifficult to find the time to
spend on yourself, and I think Istruggled with that.
So I am I certainly hadprobably from around 2019, i'd
(05:36):
say I was that plan B wasbecoming more and more urgent.
So I started to have a fewconversations about secondments
and things like that.
But then the, the pandemic,gifted me a few things, i have
to say.
It gifted me furlough, whichsuddenly, after I've been,
(05:57):
probably spent six monthsexploring some different ideas.
And then it gifted me that timeOnly a little bit of time, of
course, but time away from myrole.
So I did not have the noise ofmy role to think about, i just
had the literal noise at homeand everything that came with.
But I could carve out a littlebit of time to do some
(06:21):
exploration and and and work onmyself, i suppose, and work out
what's to next.
And then the subsequentredundancy that came at the end
of furlough then released mefrom the decision I didn't have
to make that decision to stepaway from that role.
That decision was made for me,and then I had the agency really
(06:44):
that I needed.
I needed that permission myself, and I think this is a really
really difficult transition foranyone to step away from
something that feels secure.
You know it's.
It's better than devil, youknow, isn't it?
That's exactly the situation Iwas in, so it gave me the agency
to actually think about.
What do I want to do next?
(07:05):
What do I, what do I need frommy work financially and in terms
of purpose, and then longevityas well.
But it took to get to thatpoint in the first place took a
long time, and then it againtook me a while to work out
exactly what I needed to do,which turns out to be to retrain
(07:31):
, get my diploma and then launchthe business that I have now,
and the thing that I, if I hadmy time again, is I think I
would have.
I found it very difficult tofind the help and guidance
online, and I think having helpfrom other people as soon as I
(07:57):
get gauged in connecting withpeople and talking to people, it
suddenly made the whole processa lot easier.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I was asking for help, isn't it?
essentially, yeah, i thinkthat's very good at doing.
The question is then, because Icompletely empathise, having
been through a very similarprocess and I actually had some
really random jobs.
I was a massage therapist,qualified as that.
Okay, at one point I was goingto open my own Pilates studio,
so all these kind of thoughtscame into my head along the
years.
Anyway, separate conversationsto have, and, i suppose, for
(08:25):
people that we work with, forclients that we haven't, and
your friends, etc.
Finding ourselves in a placewhere we havea secure career or
role which we've been in for 10,15, 20 years, potentially we
have a stable income as part ofthat, which, god knows, at this
moment in time, is vitallyimportant.
But we know there's somethingthat needs to change, or there's
some niggle, or there's somesort of alternative plan B that
(08:47):
we want to bring to life, butnow without the pandemic and
without furlough and potentiallywithout redundancy on the table
.
I suppose how do people findthat space, as you did, to say,
right, i know something needs tochange, but I need to create
that headspace to startexploring it, and it also is not
(09:07):
a quick fix.
This might take me months oryears to get plan B to be
reality.
I says what would you say tothose people who are feeling
like this, but feel like they'vejust stuck?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
So I think the first
thing and you've already touched
on it that it's a process Andthere's an element of pause,
pause and, very slowly in thetime that you do have, work out
what it is that is important toyou, and that you've got to
(09:43):
start from within.
I think the temptation we'veall been there where you're
unhappy at work And the mostobvious change is I'm just going
to get a new job.
So if the first part of call isI'm just going to get unlinked
in and search jobs, you canquite quickly get yourself out
(10:04):
of the frying pan and into thefire.
Done it myself definitely have,and that's when I ended up in
quite in a job where I was in areally toxic environment, which
actually made the situation alot worse, and what I didn't do
in that interim period betweenmy kids was stop to work out
what was important to me.
And I think you need to findthe time.
(10:27):
It doesn't need to be lots oftime, but find a way of carving
the time to work out what'simportant to you.
There's lots of ways to do that.
There's some brilliant booksresources if you, if books are
for you like squiggly careers.
(10:48):
Their two books are excellent.
I think the first one's calledsquiggly careers and the second
one's called you coach you.
So if you're a self starter andyou like the written word,
that's a great place to start.
Podcasts like this one thereare multiples of podcasts out
there I think can be reallyhelpful.
If you say, you're on a commuteor in your car and you know
(11:08):
you've got half an hour a week,that can be really quite
transport transformative.
If you just use that reallysmall amount of time just for
yourself.
And I think once you've workedout what it is that you want and
one of the ways you can do thatis what do I want more of?
(11:30):
what do I want less of then youcan start thinking about where
might I seek that out.
And I think there's all of this.
The other thing is that if it'sa career change we're looking
for, that just doesn't, your oldjob doesn't stop on one day and
then your new career changestarts the next day.
(11:51):
That could be quite a lot ofthings that you need to need to
consider in that, and actually Ithink quite a useful thing to
do is think about where do Iwant to be in 12 months time?
What does my life actually looklike?
Pick a time in the future.
What do I want it to look likethen?
(12:14):
And how would I feel if nothinghas happened and I'm starting
the same thing?
And that can be really and itdoes take a bit of a native
slant, but it can be extremelymotivating to think about.
Oh my god, if I was actuallydoing the same thing now in 12
months time, i would be reallyfrustrated, actually genuinely
(12:38):
very unhappy, and that you canreally suffer.
Take that fire and take action.
And I think the other thingthat I learned quite quickly
once I had more my intentionalpathway ahead of me was the
tiniest action will lead to moreaction, and that is that's
(13:02):
probably the biggest learningthat I had.
If I just set up oneconversation, i just send one
WhatsApp, or you know it mightbe a WhatsApp to a friend, but
the next thing you know you'resending an email to your
director from six months ago andyou're starting to have
important, really usefulconversations, but you've got to
(13:25):
be ready to start.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, i think it's.
that's a visibility aspect.
is you have to get yourself outthere?
Yeah, you can do it in small,measurable ways.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And I'd say there's
conversations can open doors
which you would never realize.
We've been there until you havethat conversation.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
And for me,
accountability was really
important.
Yeah, because I'm not great onmy own, i do get a little bit
distracted, as we all do, byother things.
It's much more interesting thanwhat we're supposed to be doing
.
So, actually, theaccountability part which
nowadays I think something weprobably should mention is we're
both coaches for career tomotherhood, which is an amazing
online platform for working moms, and I'm going back into work
(14:05):
and all kinds of differentscenarios And just having
accountability within a grouplike that where you might say
out loud I'm ready to dowhatever it is and invite people
to just to be there to supportyou, to cheer, lead and to kind
of keep you going, so that evenmoney do lose that motivation
which we all do.
Sometimes You kind of you've putit out there already So that
(14:28):
might keep you, keep thatpassion and fire going.
Yeah, and then, what kind ofwork?
So the work you do now in yourcoaching business, how did you?
obviously had the squigglypuddler pen scenario.
How did you then narrow thatdown from again what was, i
imagine, quite a corporate,structured career path, as you
said, kind of linear career path.
How do you then boil that alldown to what you do today?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I think what it all
comes back to the name of my
company brilliant me.
That was because it becameobvious to me that I am, in all
areas of my life, particularlysince I've had children, i'm
surrounded by all of these womenwho've maybe slightly lost
(15:15):
touch with the career that theyused to do before And, as such,
lost touch with how brilliantthey are.
So I felt sort of my mission.
The thing I'm so passionateabout is helping people
reconnect with that brillianceso that they can go on and, as
I've just talked about, thentake that control of that career
(15:40):
.
It's probably not going to.
For some people it will look abit like what it did before, but
it's working out what you wantit to look like now.
And I think that's the thingthat can feel quite overwhelming
.
Whether you've taken six monthsaway from work, 12 months, five
years, 10 years, it's veryincremental.
(16:00):
That distance that you createaway from that working, that
person of you that you used towork and you do, through
transitions, become a differentperson, and embracing that
different person, thosedifferent values and the things
(16:22):
that drive you, is how you canthen find the next thing.
I continue to be surrounded byall these brilliant women who
want to work but they don'tquite know how to take those
steps to head back in, and Ithink the other thing that I
talked about was how long ittook me to work out how to
(16:44):
approach things and what to doand how to do it and where to
find the information.
I want to just try and be that,or one of those many sort of
ports in the storm by being oncareer and motherhood platform.
We're all there with similarmission to help women juggle
careers and family, and I wantto try and offer things as
(17:12):
accessible as possible.
I'm obviously here to run abusiness, but I also do a fair
bit of sort of free resourcesand things like that just to
help people get started, andthen you can work out as and
when you've got the time and themoney to invest in yourself, to
take that to the next level.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, i think to your
point.
We kind of also as career women, and again, maybe you had a
break or not, and then you havekids and then there's no time to
process who you then become.
I don't think personalexperience, but I'm the same
person, obviously, but my valueshave changed fundamentally And
also my values change over age.
Now I'm getting quite nearing50 at the moment, which is a bit
(17:56):
scary, but my values now, agealmost 48 to early 30s, are
quite different, with or withoutkids, and the kids come into
the mix and my values aredifferent Again, my priorities
are different and my vision, etcetera.
But there's never, really we'renever given or give ourselves a
time to process what that lookslike, feels like, until
(18:16):
something just hits us one day,whatever that catalyst might be,
and we kind of think, oh God, idon't really know what I'm
doing anymore, i don't know whatmy purpose is, i don't know
what my role modeling for mychildren And all these questions
suddenly can hit us quite, butlike a train, because I don't
think we have that, givenourselves that time over years
to process it properly.
So I suppose again, maybe whatare your thoughts, i guess, on
(18:39):
when to start that process ofre-evaluating ourselves.
When should we start that,before it gets slapped in the
face with it later on?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
That's really
interesting.
I think the first thing is tounderstand that transition into
becoming a parent is actuallysimilar to even if you were
going through a transition work,any life or career transition.
(19:11):
You go through the same sort ofpattern of behaviors.
So, and one of the most usefulthings to do is let go of
exactly how things were beforeand start to focus in on the
here and now And it's like,actually, what do things mean to
(19:31):
me now?
And except they might not meanthe same, and that's sort of
where your values are sort ofshifting underneath.
I mean, i learned an awful lotabout myself when I was on my
first maternity leave, becausethat's the first time I'd really
stopped to question what I didand how I did it and met
different people.
I mean, it's still.
It still today makes me laughWhen I so I live about 12 miles
(19:58):
out of London And I genuinelythought every single person that
lived there got on a train andworked in London, and it blew my
tiny little brain to find outthat one other person that I met
once I've had a child actuallydid that.
And today this continues.
(20:18):
We're in the minority, or wewere in the minority.
So suddenly it's like oh,there's other ways of doing
things and actually it's quitenice where I live.
I could.
It's more important to me nowto spend a bit more time here
(20:38):
and enjoy the things that aregoing on around me.
So I think, being aware ofthose shifting values underneath
, if we talk specifically aboutmaternity leave, i think there
is an element of you really wantto be present in that moment
(21:01):
And it's quite difficult tomanage that balance between that
work that you've left andparticularly if you are planning
to go back into that same role.
So I think there's a lot ofvalue in trying to think about
how you might feel before youleave.
get to go on maternity leave,Spend a little bit of time
thinking about how you wouldlike to go to have that
(21:24):
transition at the other end andgoing successfully back into
work, but much like your birthplan, accepting that that might
all go out the window, but I'vesort of put on paper how I'd
like it to go and then I canrevisit that.
But for the first six months, orhowever many months, i'm going
to be totally present with mybaby, or my baby and my small
(21:46):
child, or however your familysetup is, and then start to
think about how you feel aboutwork at a time where you want to
put your energies back intothat, and I think that then is
quite a good time to reassesswhere you are And the same, if
you've been, maybe you've takena more protracted break It's
(22:10):
like give yourself a fair run upbefore you actually plan to
step back into the working worldTo really work out what it is
that you want to do, becausethen it makes it a lot easier
for the conversations that youhave if you're able to express
much more clearly what it is youwant and what you're looking
(22:30):
for.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
And also you said
before about frying pan to fire
if you've had a longer period ofleave and I do have many
clients who've gone back to workafter about four or five years
when their children start schoolAnd so immediate thought is
right, that's it.
Now I need to start work And,to your point, i'm going to go
LinkedIn and find a job.
But take a moment, more than amoment, just to think about what
you really want now, sort ofmid long term.
(22:54):
So rather than just grabbingthe first opportunity, you feel
you should be back in the jobmarket Again.
What do you actually want?
What's it look like, what yourboundaries, what sort of roles,
industry, skill sets, et ceterayou're actually looking for And
give yourself the time now to dothat And don't feel you need to
jump straight back in, becausethat will serve you so much
better in the future when youmight end up, as you did, in a
toxic environment, having madesort of maybe a knee jerk
(23:16):
decision.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, absolutely, and
I think there's a lot of things
that you can do to go throughthat process of self discovery.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And then you've got a
boy and a girl.
I do, yeah, so I think I'll askthis all kind of.
I suppose the moms who havetaken a career change and are
working for themselves, i guess,how do you think they might
look at you in the next sort ofas they get into their teens six
, five or six years as a workingmother has her own business?
What would you like them to bethinking?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Well, that's a very
timely question because I'm much
more.
The work I do is so much morevisible to them now And you've
touched on a trigger word thatare boundaries And I think
what's so my work's much morevisible, which is great because
(24:14):
they they totally get that.
But I haven't got my brand justcorrect at the moment.
So what's important for me asthey, as they get older,
actually really as soon as I canis to get my work life balance.
I can create this businessbecause I wanted to create a
(24:35):
work life balance and I'm notgetting it quite right.
So I think that's that's thelearning, and that is from
trying to do a little bit toomuch with the time that I have.
So what?
what I, what I'm aiming towardsis to show them how how you can
(24:57):
work in something that'spurposeful and be happy doing
that, but also sort of bepresent in all other areas of
your life.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I think also that's
the reality of running your own
business.
For the beginning.
You know it's blood, sweat andtears, yeah, however many years.
So I think a part of all ofthese life choices are a bit of
reality check, reality,understanding that it's not all
just because you think I'm goingto run my business and it's
going to be passionate about it.
It's purposeful, yes, for 50thtime, and then the rest of the
(25:29):
time and the admin and the timetrying to get working is going
to.
It's hard, you know it's hard,a hard slog, But I think that in
itself is quite good for yourkids to see.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, definitely, and
I think to be doing something
that matters, as opposed toselling skirts, which, you know,
we all, we all love clothes, weall love fashion, but I feel
like I'm doing something thatreally matters to me now And the
and I can.
Actually it's that tangibleimpact that I have on other
(26:00):
people.
And I also have.
Another thing that I doactually is I work with young
people when they're, you know,making their very early career
decisions, you know, in years,years, at 10 and 10, 11, 12 and
13.
And and that's very tangible,particularly for my son Well,
actually, both of them, theytotally get that, because one
(26:21):
day a week I'm in a, i'm in aschool, so it really they now
have a much better understandingof what it means to work and
the impact that you are havingon the people and why I do it.
I think that's really important, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, and I think it
always is.
I think that's also whyeveryone, whatever choice you're
making in your career is, makeit for yourself, because you
understand why you're doing it,and you may decide that selling
skirts, in my case, wasbroadband TV is absolutely the
right direction for you.
There's no reason why itshouldn't be.
Or working in an investmentbank, you know, 60 hours a week,
(27:02):
whatever it is, that might bethe right choice for you as well
, and I think it's just beingreally mindful of that that you
can do as long as it feels rightto you and for your family.
then don't let that kind ofcomparison it is, i suppose get
in the way because you should bedoing this by now or this
because you're an outpatient.
you should be doing that.
I think trying to again keepstrong to what your purpose is
(27:27):
is really important.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I think that is such
a valid point actually because I
think when you're making acareer change, in whichever
direction, there often arecompromises that need to be made
and not kind of not to lookoutside of the decisions that
you've made and the reasons whyyou've done it.
(27:50):
It is actually incrediblyimportant, you know, we've had
to make a lot of, you know,difficult decisions at home to
make a career change possible,and that's another thing there,
not only the decision about whatit is that I want to do, what's
(28:11):
important to me, it's alsoactually what can I do that fits
into that box that is going todeliver me the amount of
financial remuneration that Iactually need?
So you know, we've made a lotof changes to do that.
You know, with other, it's aquestion that I always, always
(28:32):
ask of my clients who are makinga change.
It's like you know what doesthat need to look like and can
the change you want to makedeliver on that?
And what that might mean is thatyou actually you've got this,
you've got your long-term plan.
That is what I want to be a.
I want to be a Pilates teacher,but actually I can't do that
(28:57):
100% to live the life that Iwant to live right now.
So, yes, i'm going to have todo a little bit of.
I'm going to have to get aregular job as well to
supplement that income.
But it's remembering thatthat's for now.
You've got your one eye on thefact that, yeah, i am moving
towards my longer-term plan, butto get there, i need to make
(29:21):
some compromises in the here andnow.
So, yes, get those blinkers onand decide what it is that you
want to do and how you're goingto do it, But be really, really
focused on that, that endposition.
That's why I'm doing it,because I want to have a job
where I'm completely in controlof my own business, my own
income and I'm doing somethingthat I truly want to do.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And again we have
kids.
It's quite easy to get stuck,especially in difficult phases,
which put most phases of havingchildren is quite difficult, but
we're looking at it in phases.
So when we have, i suppose,naught to go say it's pretty
intense, they're needy, ofcourse they are.
They're small children, there'sa lot going on for them And we
have to accept that.
(30:06):
That's the phase where we're inwith them And perhaps our
headspace isn't quite therebecause we've got so many new,
potentially new parents as welland they're just going to chuck
the whole other thing into themix.
But then you've got school age,early school age, where they're
a little more independent andthey are out of the house all
day and they've maybe got offschool clubs and they're doing
things a bit sort of on the roadAnd maybe again the headspace
(30:26):
comes back to something okay,what do I want now?
Then when they move into theirsenior school phase, where they
apparently don't want your tool,it seems like at the moment,
but actually they're physicallynot with you as much because
they're taking themselves off toplaces.
So you've got a bit more timethen to think about what do I
want in the next step.
So I think, as you said, it'sabout what's right for now.
(30:47):
What works for now is fine, andI'll change it or review it
when that next sort of moment intime appears.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, and I think
that phased approach can really
be helpful because it can feelextremely overwhelming if you
want to make a change from,maybe, a career you've been in
for a really long time.
I'm thinking about phasing andalso it's phasing and I'm being
(31:24):
open to adapt.
I found when I really got intothe highly intentional phase of
okay, now I need to reallyreally work out what my next
step is, it's like what I kneweven a fortnight later from any
(31:45):
point that I was at was justincredible, because I did put
myself out there.
I've asked so many people forconversations and one of the
biggest learnings as well for meis how generous people are with
their time, with their contacts, and people want to help.
99% of people want to help youfind the thing that's right for
(32:11):
you, and every singleconversation I had caught me
something new made me moreconfident in expressing what it
is that I wanted to know.
I became more focused on theoutcome of the conversations.
It's like, actually, i know I'mhaving a conversation with Jill
on Tuesday What do I want to?
(32:32):
and also a conversation with afriend, maybe slightly different
to a conversation with a moreof a professional contact or an
introduction to someone else.
So what's really useful oftenfor that person who might be one
step removed from you, is tellthem what it is that you want
their help with.
(32:52):
Make it easy for them.
So if actually you want them tointroduce you to someone in the
education sector and doing ajob with helping special needs
children, find a way to ask forthat or even tell them in
advance what it is that you wantto talk to them about.
So you're really using theseconversations.
(33:14):
But the same token, when youstart out, sometimes you don't
know what you want from thatconversation, so you don't let
that stop you having it.
If it's just an explorativeconversation, find the right
person to have that conversationwith.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
So what's it like for
you going forward then?
So in our phases and where yourkids are kind of early primary
school kind of age, where do youthink your next phase, what's
that going to look like for you,do you think?
Speaker 2 (33:40):
The next phase for me
, which I'm just moving into,
actually is to.
I've spent the last 18 monthsworking exclusively or almost
exclusively with private clientsAnd I love that because there's
a real the impact that you canhave And I really enjoy that.
(34:06):
But what I want to do is andI've worked a lot with career,
career changers, but I've alsoworked a lot with women who are
transitioning back to work aftermaternity leave So the area
that I would like to do morework in is working with
organizations to support theirreturning parents.
(34:27):
So that's probably the nextphase for me is establishing
that type of work and helpingorganizations move in the right
direction and offering thoseparent friendly policies and
initiatives.
And I find that quite excitingbecause a lot of business some
(34:49):
not a lot some businesses arevery much there, forward
thinking, understanding thebenefits of these type of this
type of support, but certainlynot particularly in the area
that I used to work in in retail, i would say the lagging quite
far, quite far behind on this.
So yeah, for me that, but notsome.
(35:11):
But I will still do all thethings that I do with my private
one to one and group clients aswell.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Yeah, i suppose also
get then talk about the retail.
The different career beforehandis remembering the support you
got at that point, which wouldhave been very different
landscape to now.
Things thankfully have moved ona bit, but thinking what would
you like to have, what supportdid you need as a new mom in
that industry, and what can younow bring to people several
(35:45):
years later, knowing what youcould have done with them?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, and I think I
mean when you think, if I think
of all the retail companies thatwork, for the proportion of
female employees to to mail inthe up to middle management was
probably 90, 10.
And then, once you get tosenior management and above, it
(36:12):
flips the other way, and youknow that isn't a coincidence.
So I think, you know, one ofthe things would have been just
like a network of parents.
I almost felt like I never evenwant to talk about, about the
fact that.
(36:32):
I had children at work because Iwas surrounded by sort of 20,
20 year olds, but of course theywere other working parents
there And rather than actuallyhaving to try and sort of have a
chat with them, bump into themin the kitchen I'd love there to
have been something set up.
(36:55):
You know, rather than making itdifficult to be a parent at work
, let's sort of embrace that andfind ways of supporting each
other.
And that, i think, for manycompanies, is where they're
missing.
A trick for so light touch toset up and then sort of layering
on top of that, and of course,you know, one to one support is,
(37:19):
at the very least, returning towork.
Yeah, best case scenario, frombefore you leave on your
maternity leave.
That's, that's what I wouldhave.
I would have got so much out ofthat.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
You inadvertently
promoted my other podcast by
saying that, Okay, yeah, parentequation culture shift, which is
currently live where it's.
The co chairs of the all thechairs of the working parent
networks In variousorganizations are talking to me
about what their companies aredoing.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Again, not enough.
Not enough of them.
And the ones who are doing itare doing it so amazingly well
Alongside their day jobs, drivenby absolute passion to support
their fellow parents.
And as you say is it's drivenby passion, it doesn't need to
be a huge input from the companythat he's sponsorship and he's
support and he's budget, butthen it needs permission for
these parents who want to do itvoluntarily, to sell these
(38:11):
networks and just make it happenSo it can be quite like touch
and impact can be huge.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, i think so,
just because it's what you're
doing, is you're creating safespaces for people to the network
is about seeking other peoplewithin the business who are
having similar experiences toyou, and I think, from the
coaching perspective, is you'vegot a safe space to explore all
(38:39):
your thoughts and feelings thatit that are almost impossible to
explore with a line manager,and in many businesses that I've
been in, i wouldn'tparticularly want to express
these thoughts to peers either.
So particularly when you worksomewhere where you might be in
quite a competitive or flatstructure where you know you
(39:00):
don't want to share, maybepersonal thoughts and and and
worries and things like thatwith with your peers.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yeah, absolutely
Absolutely, jane.
Thank you so much on that note.
If anyone feel that they need asafe space, talk about these
kind of things.
Where's the best place to findyou?
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I mainly hang out on
LinkedIn, so that's a great
place to find me either mybusiness page, which is
brilliant me, or, equally, ipost under my name, jane McKenna
, and so it's connected with me.
I'd love that.
And also on my website, whichis brilliant me.
(39:43):
dot co, dot, uk, brilliant meal, one word.
And on there you can sign up tomy newsletter.
so I send out a monthly memowith lots of resources and I
share lots of free resources.
I run free workshops as well,so once you're on my mailing
list, you can sort of hear aboutall of the things that that I'm
(40:06):
up to within the space ofcareer change and returning to
work.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Perfect.
Thank you so much, Jane.
Best of luck with whatever thenext phase.
Thank you so much.
Stay strong as a working parent, thank you, and thank you so
much for joining me.
Thanks, jane.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Thank you, thank you,
bye, bye.