All Episodes

November 20, 2023 36 mins

What would you do if you were hit by multiple redundancies? My guest today, Lee Witherell, chose to turn this into an opportunity and carve out a portfolio career for himself.

From data services to launching a fitness side hustle during the pandemic, Lee's journey is a shining example of resilience and adaptability. We get into the importance of being in control of your career, the need for collaboration, and the benefits of diversified income sources.

We cover the role of AI in advertising, the shift in work models, and the necessity of empathy and flexibility in a portfolio career. As we navigate through these fascinating insights, Lee shares his perspective on how the working generation is adapting to this new career model. So, whether you're considering a shift to a portfolio career or looking for some professional inspiration, tune in for some actionable advice and thought-provoking perspectives from Lee's journey.

Find out more about Lee:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lee-witherell-4422293

ABOUT ME - AYESHA MURRAY
I'm an accredited career coach with over 20 years experience in the corporate world. Having experienced the working parent juggle first hand, I now coach people through their career and life challenges.


WORK WITH ME
I'm here to give you the confidence, self-belief and support to help you design a life that works for you and your family. Through tried and tested approaches, tools and methodologies, you'll leave the coaching process with clear direction, motivation and energy.

If you'd like to find out more about how coaching could work for you, book a free 30 min call at https://calendly.com/ayeshamurraycoaching/discovery-call


CONNECT WITH ME
Website - www.ayeshamurray.com
LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/ayeshamurray75
Instagram - www.instagram.com/ayeshamurray_coaching


DISCLAIMER
The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast belong solely to the host and guest speakers. Please conduct your own due diligence.

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Parent Equation podcast with me, aisha
Murray.
This podcast series is full ofinspiring stories from working
parents who are passionate aboutdesigning a life that works for
them and their families.
Working parents like you whowant a purposeful, rewarding
career alongside a balancedfamily life.
So today, on the ParentEquation and with our topic of

(00:29):
portfolio careers, I am joinedby Lee Witherall.
Good morning, lee Good morningAisha.
Lee is a working parent, grownup kids.
Now, yes, I'm coming out of theend, but you're not really,
because they're justboomeranging back.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yes, you never finish it, but yes, in theory, in
theory.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
And you have had.
Well, you are now in, I suppose, what we describe as a
portfolio career situation.
Yes, having had a long,successful career in the past.
So what would be great to kickoff with Lee is could you give
us some context as to how haveyou got to where you are now
when it comes to portfoliocareer?
What was the journey you'vebeen on?

Speaker 2 (01:07):
What was the journey and what was the impetus?
So there's two phases to myportfolio career.
So the first and both promptedby redundancies.
So the first was I was workingfor a big data services company
up until about 2004 and theywent through a redundancy

(01:28):
process and I took advantage ofthat and left and started.
So it was more starting my ownthing rather than portfolio at
that stage.
But that sort of got me in themind of the freelancer and doing
different projects, differentgigs.
So I didn't do the classic sortof IT freelancer where you go
and work with one company soyou're more or less an employee,

(01:50):
but with a massive day rate.
I was much lower day rates thanIT contractors.
But also I was doing lots ofdifferent projects, either
concurrently or one after theother.
But then I dipped back into theworld of full time, permanent
employment.
So actually, again, that waspretty interesting because that

(02:11):
was prompted by the needs ofbeing a parent.
So I actually wanted moresecurity.
I thought, look, my kids atthat stage were still both quite
young and I wanted thatsecurity of getting paid for
your holidays or having sicknesscover, that sort of pension
being paid.
But then the next jolt back intothe world of initially sort of

(02:36):
consultancy, stroke freelancing,but then proper portfolio
career, was another redundancyat the end of 2016 where I tried
going back into properuniversity commerce work.
It didn't work out.
So I thought, look, I've been aconsultant in a freelancer
before I'll do that again.
And again I was very lucky thatI did get a real good mix of

(03:00):
projects.
I was sort of I wouldn'texactly call it churn, I would
call it it was revolving.
I managed to keep that workgoing and going and going, but
with different clients, withdifferent marketing agencies,
advertising agencies, differentsectors, really, really
interesting.
And then I got to 2020.
So it was just before thepandemic and I'd always been

(03:25):
interested in fitness and beinga partaking in fitness not
necessarily sport per se, butsort of fitness and I'd been
doing that for quite a while, orgetting my fitness up for quite
a while, and I thought actuallyI quite like the element, I
like what I see these peopledoing, the way they work, the
instructors.

(03:45):
So I did the qualifications ofPT, qualified and then started
looking for work as, really as aside hustle, just before the
pandemic struck, which actuallywasn't that much of a blow to my
burgeoning career as a PTbecause I started doing stuff
online.
So there was another elementhere that more people were doing

(04:06):
everything online, so workingonline but also working out
online.
So that sort of took off and atthe same time I was still doing
some work in the field thefield of data analysis and
marketing that I'd always beenin, but it became and again
because of the slowdown withCOVID and there being sort of

(04:27):
less of that work, I sort ofmanaged.
That's when I started buildingthat portfolio career and I kept
that going for a couple ofyears and I've actually beefed
up the PT side of it, which isreally good, but still having to
rely on the, I would say, myproper work to actually sort of

(04:50):
bringing income.
And I think that's what youfind when you talk to a lot of
people who have side hustles.
It's very rare, or it is it'srarer, that you can make a full
time go of it, or it takeslonger to do that because you
have to devote time around you,your traditional, normal work
and usually, often again, aswith me, redundancy can be

(05:13):
actually the primer or thekickstart to that, because it
gives you the time back, but itcan often give you a lump of
cash to no-transcript.
The next development on thatwhich really prompted me into
what I would now say is a proper, more of a real portfolio the

(05:37):
current cost of living crisisand the downturn of this.
It is a bit of a downturn inour marketplace of what I do
data analysis marketing whichwas early on this year.
What made this year contract Iwas working on had finished.
I was still doing thatcombination of normal data
analytics marketing work and PTon the side.

(05:59):
Contract came to a finish.
I went on holiday.
When I came back, the marketseems to have died.
I couldn't find any work.
It was interesting because,looking on LinkedIn, I started
seeing something I had neverseen before, which is people
really explicitly reaching outand saying not just saying I'm
open to work and I'm looking atsharing this with your contacts

(06:21):
or I'm reaching out to mycontent, but actually coming up
with telling you their story ofI have been unemployed now for
three, four, five months,whatever.
So really some sad concerningstories about that.
The market is always cyclical,as all markets always are.
I think it may well be pickingup now, but it seems to be a

(06:42):
particular thing.
I was in a similar situation.
I was running out of money.
So, quite generally, money is ahuge thing.
We have money.
So my daughter so I'm stilldoing the PT with it again, like
I said, you can't make it atthe moment, couldn't make it
complete living out of that.
So my daughter, who is a sound,is just qualified as a sound
and video engineer said to mewhy don't you get in contact

(07:04):
with one of these sort ofcrewing or rigging companies
that take on people almost likea zero-hours contract?
So they're always looking forpeople who've got a work ethic,
don't mind working odd hours,and you basically work on
festivals, gigs, corporateevents, theatre shows, and you
basically lump gear around andthen set it up.

(07:27):
So it's like being on roadie,but it's slightly more technical
and not everyone's got longhair and listen to Andy Little,
but there's still a lot ofpeople like that.
So I thought, well, I might aswell, because the one thing I
would say I was, as opposed toquite often in the past, where
I'd been cash rich at TimePort,I was now cash poor at TimeRidge

(07:48):
.
So I went online, signed up forone of these, then invited me
and had a trading day and then Igot stuck into it.
So that was where.
So I'd now had or at that timeit was a sort of two phase or
sort of two strand portfoliocareer of the PT and this very
blue collar manual work that Ihadn't done for years and years

(08:13):
which I was now going back into.
So that's where it got to and,interestingly enough, so now
this is sort of the ironic thingNow I've gone back into the my
traditional world of work.
So I put that aside for amoment because PT is still
ongoing.
But now the market does seem topick up.
It's got picked up some, someprojects and I'm working on
those.

(08:33):
But it was a really interestinginstitute because I met a load
of people who, some of them, didit as a portfolio career as
well.
A lot of them that was justwhat they did Mostly younger
guys, quite flexible, quite laidback, quite a different
attitude to, to a different,just a different way of living

(08:56):
and working to what you'd see inan office, and that was quite
that was quite refreshing.
It was.
It was an eye opener againbecause it sort of took me back
to being a sort of much youngerblue collar man.
But it was, it was eye openingand also really quite um.
So what say inspiration is somuch because they really did,

(09:18):
you got to a sort of very baselevel of teamwork or something
that I said base level.
So so working as a team in a joblike that is really important
because if you turn up unlesssix of you and you have to set
up a gig and you have to do it aset amount of time, or you have
to do rigs, take down a gig andagain, wherever that venue is,
they want you out as quickly aspossible.

(09:39):
You can't have slackers.
So you can.
I know, I know in the officeenvironment it also is it's
difficult to slack.
I'm not saying people in officeare slackers, but it's very,
very noticeable and also the theway that company was that if
someone would offer you a job,you didn't have to take the jobs
.
If they had an app they wouldoffer.

(10:00):
You say, do you want to work at, let's say, um, the BBC studios
, and made available for one ofthe better examples.
I did a couple of gigs there andit might be set it helping the
um, one of the promptsorchestras set up for a
rehearsal for the prompts.
You could take it or you didn'thave to take it.
But if you did take it and youturned up.

(10:21):
Well, you needed to turn upbecause if they're expecting,
let's say, four of you and onlythree turn up, they were going
to do 25, 30% extra work.
Um, and if or if you turn upbut you're slack, again, you're
putting pressure on them.
So there and and there was avery real sense of pride in them
in terms of what they do, causeactually there's a lot of skill

(10:41):
in setting these things up.
There's a lot of skill even inpacking a lorry with flight
cases full of really expensiveaudio video, doing it in a way
that you can fill that lorry sothey don't need to rent another
lorry, but also so you don'tbreak it.
It sounds really obvious, butso it was really.
So it was interesting.
No-transcript.

(11:03):
Yeah, cool kids are young andmainly were a few girls on there
which is interesting as wellmainly young guys who were quite
you talk, you might look at thestreet, look a bit like
slackers, but actually once theygot working, really, really
focused and dedicated.
So that's the point.
So, over over this summer, so Ihad this Two strand for for me

(11:26):
in a direction that I wasn'treally expecting to go, and now
it's.
It's back to another twostrands of the side hustle
portfolio career.
But I'm trying to beat up thepts, the thing I now know if I
needed to I could go back and dosomething like that.
I might not want to, but it'salways there and it's

(11:49):
interesting because I've seen,also linked in, I've seen quite
not too many.
I've seen a few instances withpeople I know, all all sort of
their colleagues, of colleagueswho've been sort of in, let's
say, software sales of they'vebeen on the data infrastructure
side, all areas like that, andthey're now doing something.

(12:12):
They're working in home base orthey're selling, and again it
comes with the same thing, butthey've sort of they've almost
found themselves through doingthat because in most cases
they're quite honest.
It's not it's not theremuneration or lifestyle that I
want you to, but the jobsatisfaction in some instances
is, it's more simplified.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
What have you learned about yourself, then, through
that process?

Speaker 2 (12:41):
That's a really good question.
So I think I've learned thatyou have to be or you have to be
flexible, and I was able to beflexible.
So I wasn't sort of sittingthere thinking it wasn't quite
normal to have it get on yourbike, but it was almost like,
well, I've got to do something.
And also there was an elementI've got to earn money but I
don't want to be sitting aroundthe house.

(13:01):
So I learned that I've alsoit's sort of I've learned about
your sort of tolerance in somerespect, or at least an empathy
with people I normally wouldn'tbe Associating with, although
they're probably very much likeyou know, I've come from a blue
collar working class backgroundbut but since I've left

(13:25):
university, I would have seenless and, you know, would have
Shared less and less people likethat's very Marianne's one, it
doesn't, it Wouldn't mix withthese people normally.
So I think it's sort offlexibility and empathy and also
so just that value of doing agood job, because it doesn't
matter that's.
That is actually that's quite abig thing, because it doesn't

(13:46):
matter what you're doing, youneed to do it well, whatever it
is you do.
So you could be working on adigital transformation project
for a massive FMCG company,which is partially something I'm
working on at the moment.
But you could also just betaking down or moving a pop up,

(14:08):
you know, moving a set within amuseum for an events company
both of those jobs, you know ifyou're going to do them.
If you're going to do them, dothem well.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
So yeah, yeah, it feels like I'm almost tempted to
rebrand portfolio career maybeit's already out there and I
don't know the kaleidoscopecareer, because it feels like
when you've talked about yourtwo, your two strands, so you, I
suppose you twisted yourkaleidoscope lens and you had
the event stuff and the PT.

(14:39):
You're twisting it again nowand you've gone back to the PT
and the marketing.
Perhaps, you know, is nextmonth or next year begin, it
twists and there's somethingelse that comes in into the mix.
It feels like you're kind ofalmost the ability to have
options in that portfolio and tolet pull on different things
when you need them.
It feels like then, in someways, that could give you more

(15:01):
security because you've gotoptions.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Then that's a really good way.
It's really interesting becausewhen I look at it in terms of
how you, how you move forwardfrom it, that that's the one
thing as I was sort of thinkingI'm always am I going to be
shifting and lifting furnitureand set where, sort of sixty
five, and it just killed me?
But you're right, it doesactually having options, and I

(15:23):
think that the difference, Isuppose that the difference is
Having control over it.
If it's a case of you have todo a number of things but you
don't have control over whatyou're doing, or I'm doing
enough a number of thingsbecause actually I want the
variety and that that's thegreat, because I don't know if
I'm in that position, but thatis the great position, or that

(15:44):
is a great position to be.
I think a lot of people wouldlike to have A side hustle or
something that they enjoy, thatthey could do and make that
again.
At the end of the day, you haveto make some sort of, you have
to make a living out of it, butif you enjoy it, so yeah, that's
really interesting point, thatthat control, and also I do like
variety.

(16:05):
I think I always would havelike to have had Back in the
past, thinking forward, probablywould have loved if some of the
said to me like 15 years ago,you could have a portfolio.
So yeah, great, as long as itbrings in the and that would be,
that would be wonderful.
And I think I think people inthe US are a bit more.

(16:25):
It's certainly another country,but the US sticks out, are a
bit more like that.
They have so there'll be like athey do, like so their main job
, but they'll also they'll sortof do network networking sales
or there'll be a real estateagent.
I mean the ideal.
When you get the guys in Francewho are mounting guides in the

(16:45):
summer and then they're skiinstructors in the winter.
I mean that is a very rarefiedexample of it, but it's, that's
the other.
I know which more people coulddo that, because I think that
would probably, in a bizarre way, it probably gives you that
break from the normal world ofwork, probably gets you infused

(17:06):
to go back to it, take somethingback to it.
So there are certain again,that sort of that empathy,
flexibility, hard work that canbe applied to anything.
Right, they are verytransferable skills.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, most of them are, and I think it's having
that knowing you have options,or knowing you can control the
options and sort of again tweakthem, I think, for example,
would give you, hopefully, astronger sense of resilience so
that when you are potentiallyfaced maybe not, but if you were
with another situation whereyou think, right, I need to be

(17:39):
earning some money somewhere,you've done it.
Now you know that there areoptions, you know that there are
things you can bring in andcompletely different avenues
that you can explore as therigging was so first what I've
learned from there.
This is your daughter's idea goand try.
That, you never know, isactually for all of us, just to
be more open to anything thatpotentially come away.

(18:01):
It doesn't have to fit into thebox that we're used to 20 years
of our career.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the thing is, you just willjust never know where it might
go, because with the rise of AI,this is really interesting.
So a lot of jobs commentatorsare predictable will go before,
by the way, so there will bedone by computer, though we
don't buy AI.
Now interesting because I workin a lot of advertising agencies

(18:30):
.
They actually embrace that.
So the first thing I thoughtwas copywriters would be out of
the job because you just pump itin, you get some account
managers a suit and they calland will just say, okay, we need
it, we need the message to saythis put it into chat, gpt.
But it comes up.
Actually, a lot of them haveembraced it and they use it as a
tool, so they generate theoriginal ideas and then even

(18:50):
sort of creating video and audio.
They'll use AI to do that.
But you'll, you're absolutelyright you don't know or we do,
some know where technology isgoing.
We don't know exactly whereit's going to go, or just
situations like the cost ofliving crisis, the next pandemic
.
So that flexibility does itdoes give you a certain
resilience.
So I'm still not concerned.

(19:13):
I'm still obviously I need toplan and think about the future.
But there is yeah, it's areally good way of putting it.
You can turn and say well, Idid that and no one can do
something different.
And that's a great thing topick up on, because everyone can
do something different.
And just because you've beendoing something for the last 20,

(19:33):
30 years doesn't mean that youcouldn't switch.
You might have to.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, exactly, I think it probably must rely on
well, if this is to become somekind of nirvana where everyone
has a portfolio career which isvery interesting and there's
lots of different opportunitiesto earn money and different
things.
You would hope, then, that theemployment landscape is
supportive of that, thatorganisations are supportive of

(19:59):
their employees potentiallywanting to have something on the
side.
As a first step, could you getbecause someone asks effects
were working in order to pursuea side hustle every Friday, for
example?
How can the organisations startto support people's need and
want to have a more variedcareer?

Speaker 2 (20:19):
That's a really good point and I think if they
because organisations are nowespecially larger organisations
are very switched onto promotingwellness and particularly sort
of mental well-being as well asphysical well-being and a more
flexible work-life balance Nowthat could be part of it, so it

(20:40):
couldn't only go back to usbeing parents.
That's always been working forcompanies where they have been
flexible about you need to gopick up kids from school or need
to take one to the doctors orwhatever.
You're going to be much happierand much happier to work harder
for a company that supports youin that way.

(21:00):
This is somewhat similarbecause it's actually it's about
your mental well-being.
So if you say I need a day off,a week or Friday off and it's
to go and pursue this, it's notindirect competition, it's just
it's another way.
It might be a revenue earner forme, but it's my side hustle
that when I come back on MondayI'm going to be born in Tuesday.

(21:22):
I'm going to bring skills backfrom that into the workplace.
It should only be the benefit.
When actually you think about apractical I know there's been a
lot of talk about the 80, 100or whatever so you get people to
do 80% of the work.
They get paid 100%, but theyhave to do 100%.
So it's 80, 100, 100.
, so the 80% of the time, 100%of the work for 100% of the pay.

(21:43):
Employers, if they allow you topursue your side hustle, the
quid pro quo would be well, wedon't that day you're off, we're
not paying it, but that's fine,because you're making up the
money in your via your sidehustle, in your own ways.
It should, it should work, itcould and should work yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, it definitely could and should.
As you say, the skill, thetransferable skills, are not to
be underestimated.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
No, I think I know there's a lot of that.
I mean, if you think about theold, the old example of it used
to be and it's not a side hustle, it's when you had.
So I've got friends who havedone this I never, I never did
it who enjoyed it being aterritorial alarm, and so you
would.
You'd have to have youremployer would have to give you
21 day, I think, whatever it isper year, and they all worked.

(22:28):
They're always very positive tothat because that was a skill.
They were leadership skills,resilient, practical skills that
you'd come back to theworkplace with.
But that could be anything.
It doesn't have to be theterritorial alarm.
You could go and volunteer in ahospital or in a, you know, a
care home or something like that, and that would be.
So.
All that sort of stuff, yeah,it could work.
It could work really well, andI think employers are the

(22:52):
problem.
I think employers are more opento it.
My only fear is and this is onthe day that it looks like Rishi
Seedon pulling back on a lot ofthe green initiatives because
of the living is whetheremployers then sort of bottle it
because they're thinking timesare tough, times are tough for
everyone.
Times are tough in thecorporate world as well.

(23:13):
That's what we need to screwevery last hour out of work,
pound out of everybody.
But if they're forward thinking, they wouldn't do that because
I think they would end up andagain it goes back to another
bigger thing.
You would get more productivepeople and productivity is a
massive issue and a lot of that,I think, is the various bigger

(23:34):
sort of more systemic reasons,like people you know, a larger
number of people being long-termill, post-covid effects, that
sort of thing.
But there's also probably justmotivation.
What people are more highlymotivated will be more
productive.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, the majority of my clients come to me, my
coaching clients, come to mebecause they're lacking
motivation, confidence to carryon with what they've been doing
the last 20 years, because beinga parent has changed their
priorities and their values.
It doesn't actually mean theydon't like the role they're
doing anymore.
It doesn't always mean that,and it's often jumped to the
conclusion that I must be in thewrong job, and actually often

(24:12):
it's not.
It just needs a bit of arepositioning or a recrafting of
what that is, and potentiallythat could also include, then,
something else, some portfolioelement to, as you say, reignite
that motivation for work ingeneral.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Exactly, and also just talking about the sort of
skill transfer, what you do inyour current job is actually
useful in your side hustle.
For instance, the fact thatI've gone through two or three
decades of having to work to acalendar, that was originally
like a finer fact and then itbecame outlook or lotus notes or

(24:48):
whatever it was.
That actually is quite useful,even in a job like rigging, when
you have to be at the job ontime and organise yourself, and
actually you see that'sinteresting.
You see, some of these youngkids aren't used to that.
They're not used to having toplan their own work and get to a
place and then make surethey're at that venue in time or

(25:11):
whatever.
So it works both ways.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
Yeah, so what do you think then, going forward so
you're now in version 2.1 orwhatever it is of this portfolio
career, with the marketing workand the PT work going on?
How do you feel about againwhat?
Not the future, that would be aquestion, but how do you feel
about how this portfolio careermight manifest itself, or might

(25:34):
again more?
What would you like it to looklike?

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Well, I would definitely like.
I don't know, my aim is to growthe PT business, but even
within that it becomes.
That element of that has sortof offshoots in terms of it.
Then to trading coaching.
But coaching coaches is anotherthing, because I learn a lot in

(26:00):
terms of how I set up that as amini business and how I work
with people.
Again, a lot of those skillshave come from my main body of
work.
So that's one thing I think youmentioned it before about the
control, but also it's actuallybeing very aware that having a
number of different pots, let'ssay, or pies, to put fingers

(26:25):
into is potentially a biggersource of security.
It's almost like having.
None of the things that I do area passive income per se, but
there are elements of them thatsort of could become so so you
can put some coaching thing orsome even PT sessions online and

(26:47):
, again to your point, havingthat control.
So I think it's a for me it'sabout making it replicable and
actually getting, and then againgetting other people involved,
so actually starting to workmore with other people, because
it's it can be quite lonely interms of what you do and I do.
I know we're always with people.

(27:08):
So me sort of on the PT side ismore the physical side rather
than the sort of the coachingand sort of emotional and
intellectual side.
But it's still, at the end ofthe day, it's still you, it's
still your business, it's stillme, it's still my business.
So actually then, sort of saying, even if it's not a partnership
, but starting to work like acollaboration whereas a lot of

(27:28):
people might say that as well,that potentially giving business
or you're sharing business evento someone else, but actually
that rarely happens becauseusually you just learn from
other people and they're goingoff through different.
So obviously you focus onparents, working parents.
That's a real niche Just formost people, probably just

(27:49):
either going very generalist orthey've got, they're going for
it might be financial services.
It's nice to find that with PTI tend to gravitate towards sort
of slightly more white collarolder people who don't get a,
probably cash rich but time poor, whereas a lot of the younger
people like I know who are alsoPTs, they're probably actually

(28:12):
either doing really quite highlevel sports coaching or they're
going for a younger sort ofmore fun British military
fitness type group.
So yeah, so I think I thinkcollective is it?
It always sounds like they'reoff the edge of the spectrum,

(28:32):
but it's sort of proliferationand collaboration, so doing more
yourself but actually workingwith other people to do.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, and what do you think your kids?
They're older, they're startinginto working lives now Do you
think their generation, fromwhat you know of it and what you
know of them, are going to bemore portfolio career minded?

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Without a doubt, certainly the so one is studying
to go to art college.
The other one, as I said, isthere, just started her career,
just finished it, rather, andstarted her career as a sound
and video engineer.
But she already works fordifferent companies.
So she's sort of gone down afreelance route.

(29:15):
For the moment she's looking,she may well take up an
apprenticeship with one of thebigger companies she's working
with.
But I think they do accept thatbecause they've seen that,
they've seen it happen to uswith our generation, and also
that they this is the biggermalaise with young people they
probably and you've heard lotsof commentators talk about this

(29:36):
they almost don't see a point toworking the nine to five,
probably nine till seven, thevery hard, intense job because
you're not getting a reward forit at the moment.
But that social contract'salmost been broken because you
can see you've got people whocome out of university aren't
getting really well paid jobs.
Even if they do, they'reworking their backsides off and

(29:59):
they still can't afford to buy ahouse.
So they're sort of thinking.
They're sort of thinking.
So they're either.
I don't think.
I don't think they're saying Idon't want to work.
What they're saying is I'mgoing to work under my own terms
, yeah, differently, and I mightbe that I accept less as reward
, but I'm going to be happier.
Yes, I think they definitely,definitely going to be on board

(30:21):
with it.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, it's interesting how it's going to
evolve again through thegenerations and, as you said,
mental health being such animportant, one of the obviously
most talked about things as itshould be these days and how
that portfolio approach canactually help with that balance,
help with that mental health,help with actually doing
something that you enjoy and yougain satisfaction and
fulfillment out of, rather thanassuming that you have to stay

(30:46):
in one job, one career path, oneway of working for the rest of
your life.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Exactly.
That's a really nice twist onit, because that's the way it's
usually dependent.
There is less job security.
Ok, the possibly is because youdon't.
You can't rely on one job,taking the all the way through
from sort of 25 to 65.
But the opportunity there to bemore fulfilled is much bigger,
because it would then beaccepted If you, if you chopped
and changed every four or fiveyears, it wouldn't be regarded

(31:15):
as a bad thing.
It's just the case.
If you're just trying something, trying something different,
yeah, and transferring theskills.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
You're gaining everything along the way.
Don't lose anything.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Absolutely.
You are a massive yeahdifferent skills and you're
using it to other other people,other organisations benefit.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Really, before you wrap up, then, for anyone
listening well, I'm actuallylistening because of portfolio
careers I've just thought who isthinking about this, taking
this step into variety, into aportfolio, into kind of mixing
things up, potentially thathaven't done that before or been
in the career for a long time?
What is probably the firstsensible step to take?

Speaker 2 (31:55):
I think you've got to do your research.
I think you clearly you need toknow that it's sort of forced
upon me, but with theredundancies it's like I was
saying you have, you have timeand you have money, which is a
good thing.
So if you are hopefully in theposition where it's not actually
just thrown at you, then youneed to do your research, make
sure you're going to be OK orthe money to be able to keep

(32:21):
going, and then you can thenplan your plan, how you upscale
your side hustle, your portfolio, your new career, and down at
the same time is downscaling,and it might only be that you
only ever get to a 90%, 10% mix.
It might be that within sixmonths you've gone 50, 50 or
100% the new thing.

(32:43):
So I think that's that planningthat like that.
Also, I would definitely lookat upscaling and upstilling
whilst you're still in that mainjob.
So I had to.
I had to study for the PT exam,which was about actually
constructing gym sessions, butgoing back to basics, learning

(33:04):
revisited a lot about health andsafety, about physiology, about
nutrition.
So that was an eye opening,even if I never pursued it as a
career or used it in any way.
Just having relearned that, andthe process of relearning was
really good.
And then I would also reach outto people.
So this idea of collaboration,reach out to people who have

(33:25):
done it or who may be full timein that area that you're looking
at, and just ask them how theydid it, how they find it.
So a lot of it is about researchand planning.
But then the other thing isjust make sure it's something
you enjoy.
There's no point saying, OK,there's lots of money in AI

(33:47):
software development, I'm goingto try to do that.
That's not good, that's for me,that's never for me.
I've never been a head head.
If you love that sort of thing,then do it.
You can't force yourself intosomething because you think it's
going to remunerate you well.
And the other thing is as wellis don't almost go against what
I said here, so to do yourresearch, but also just jump

(34:08):
into it as well.
Give it a go, try it.
Once you've done that research,just dive into it and don't get
away from that imposter syndrome, because everyone has to start
somewhere in any job or anyactivity they do, and you soon
build up your own sort of careerpersonality.

(34:30):
That's the thing I find you, soyou can't be so familiar with
the PT example.
I'm not Joe Wicks.
I'm like the grumpy old getversion of Joe Wicks Not grumpy
with people, but it's just.
I'm not going to come up with asort of squeaky voice, get kids
jumping.
It's slightly more sort ofmeasured, because I know how
these people are feeling,because I know I've got bad

(34:51):
knees.
They've got bad knees, they'vegot injuries to recover from.
They've got to, you know, planit around their working day.
So, yes, so just be honest aswell.
It's something that you enjoy,something you know you can do
well, but also that you aregoing to make mistakes.
It's going to take a littlewhile to learn.
Yeah, I love that careerpersonality.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, in your main job as well.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
You can't.
Sometimes I think people are inindustries and I think with
everyone or the industries, witheveryone or the industries
precedes being like this, butactually you're still a series
of individuals and you shouldall be different.
So it's back to that sort ofpsychometric test.
Is 16 pm?
Organisations work better whenthere are a mix of people.

(35:38):
So just be true to yourself.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Thank you so much, Lee.
Where's the best place to findout more about your PT business?
Where can people find out moreabout your marketing business?
Just tell us your.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
So if you look for me on LinkedIn, lee Witherall,
w-i-t-h-e-r-e-l on LinkedIn, soI'm also on LinkedIn as Visceral
Fit.
So V-I-S-C-E-R-A-L-F-I-T.
Visceral Fit.
I have a LinkedIn page, butalso visceralfitcom Can't be
visit like this.
Some more information aboutwhat we do and how to contact me

(36:17):
.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Perfect, thank you.
Inspiring story.
Inspiring story how much ispossible if you just really take
a leap of faith, I suppose.
So good luck with the portfoliocareer.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
And with the business in particular, and I will.
Yeah, well, we only live quiteclose together and I could
probably do some visceralfitness at some point.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Brilliant.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Keep saying that, don't I?
But thank you so much, Lee, foryour time today.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Thank you Aisha.
Thank you Aisha.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
To work with me.
Find out more at ishamariecom,connect with me on LinkedIn or
check out my free resources andquizzes at ishamariecom.
Ishamariecom.
Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!

Dateline NBC

Dateline NBC

Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.