September 21, 2025 • 38 mins
Organizations like The Conservation Alliance have been created by outdoor brands and businesses to help join forces in advocating for our public lands. In this episode we learn more about the hot topics in advocacy and how to get involved.
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Episode Transcript
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Missy Rentz (00:00):
In this episode, you will hear reference of the
Roadless Rule and its publiccomment period.
Please note that this wasrecorded during that public
comment period, and it is nowclosed.
You can learn more about theRoadless rule on the two
previous episodes of the Parkspodcast.
Now, enjoy the episode.
(00:21):
Understanding the advocacy andconservation efforts happening
around the states can bedaunting.
Today, we learn about whatbusinesses and organizations are
doing to join forces to advocatefor our public lands.
Join me as we learn about ourbusiness champions.
I'm your host, Missy Renz, andthis is the Parks podcast.
(00:44):
In this episode of the Parks podcast, I'm thrilled
to welcome Kim Paymaster, Who isthe grant and program director
for the Conservation Alliance,and Katie Johnson, who is the
campaigns and engagement managerfor the Conservation Alliance.
Welcome to the Parks podcast.
Kim Paymaster (01:00):
Thanks so much, Missy.
So excited to be here.
Katie Johnson (01:02):
Thanks for having us.
Missy Rentz (01:04):
So I start each episode with Stats on Parks, but
with you, I wanted to share someof the stats on the Conservation
Alliance.
The Conservation Alliance ismade up of more than 200
companies, and 2024 you granted$1,651,000 to 47 projects across
(01:24):
North America.
In 1989, you awarded more than34.5 million grants to help
protect over 125 million acres.
4,964 river miles.
You removed or halted 43 damsand you purchased 22 climbing
areas and designated five marinereservations and one national
(01:48):
Marine sanctuary.
The Conservation Alliance isdoing amazing work in our public
land spaces.
Kim Paymaster (01:55):
Thanks so much, Missy, and we're gonna say we're
doing it alongside.
A lot of great partners.
Missy Rentz (01:59):
Yes, and we are definitely gonna get to that.
'cause I think in the outdoorspace, it really does take a
village.
But to start out, what is theconservation Alliance?
Kim Paymaster (02:10):
Excellent.
Great place to start.
Missy first I wanna say thankyou so much for having Katie and
I on today.
We're super excited to talk moreabout the work that we're doing
and how it impacts so many ofthe places that your listeners
are going to all the time and alot of the parks that you've
talked about on your podcast.
So back in 1989 a few of ourcurrent members, Kelty,
(02:32):
Patagonia, REI, in the NorthFace they came together
realizing that.
Their business bottom line.
And honestly like the interestsand expectations of their
customer base really relied onprotecting the outdoor spaces
that we all love.
And so at that time, they cametogether, put some money in, and
we awarded our first grant, a$40,000 grant at that time to
(02:55):
protect public spaces.
And now after 30 plus years,we've got over 200 business
members.
That have come together toprotect public spaces, and they
range across a wide array ofindustries.
But they're all coming togetherbecause they believe in
protecting wild spaces andoutdoor places that you, I, and
(03:15):
so many others care about, andthat are really critical to our
economy, the environment, andour communities.
So each year, these businessmembers, they provide dues and
we use those to support criticalconservation efforts on the
ground across North America.
So at the same time, thesebusinesses are working closely
with our team, Katie and otherson our team to engage in
(03:35):
advocacy efforts where they'remaking the economic and business
case for protecting land andwater.
Missy Rentz (03:41):
You just mentioned a few of the brands and members
that are involved, but I wannadig a little bit deeper because
I think for me, when I thinkabout conservation efforts, I
think about, the people thatare, have signup tables at the
mall or something like that, andI was really blown away with who
is involved in the work that youare doing.
(04:01):
So who do you work with?
Katie Johnson (04:04):
It's a great question, Missy, and we're
really fortunate to work with afew different groups of folks in
our day to day, as Kimmentioned, we work with a
variety of businesses.
This includes, but is certainlynot limited to outdoor industry
band brands that you might thinkof.
Some that Kim already mentioned,Patagonia, REI, et cetera.
But we also work with energyfocused companies, beverage
(04:25):
businesses, and a lot of otherindustries as well.
So we're really fortunate to beacross the table in terms of
what businesses we work with andhow they're engaged with our
work.
And then through our grantsprogram, we work with a lot of
different community ledorganizations, which includes
tribes and other folks that arecommitted to protecting clean
air, clean water, wild places,and watersheds across North
America.
(04:46):
In addition to our businessesand our grantees that we work
with, we also look to engagewith political and local leaders
across the aisle, and we workwith partners in the outdoor
recreation and conservationspace.
So just a few folks that we'rechatting with on the day to day.
Missy Rentz (05:00):
I am relatively new to this outdoor space and
learning, who the movers andshakers are.
But one of the things that'sinteresting to me and hearing
you talk about the partners isthat when I think about the
outdoor space, I think of apark.
A gear manufacturer and maybe ifI think really hard, I would get
to the tour group that's takingme out there, but you're
(05:24):
bringing up other people andorganizations, energy companies,
that's not super intuitive tome.
And I would never have gotten tothe point of thinking about a
beverage company unless it wasabout water for hydration.
So.
Why do people join and why is itso important to have all of
these different groups connectedto outdoor space?
Kim Paymaster (05:47):
I think I can start and Katie, feel free to
jump in, but I think so.
Missy.
That's a great question.
I think there's so many waysthat.
These businesses and their kindof, their brands like really
rely on the outdoors when we'retalking about beverage
companies.
Water is at the source of somany of these products and they
understand that their consumersare gonna rely on those clean
(06:08):
water sources.
And so understanding how weprotect those places is gonna be
critical, again, to theirbusiness model.
But then we've also got.
Media companies that are tryingto lift up public spaces.
And so we work with a number ofbig and small media brands, so
Flickr and others.
In that space that have reallystarted to do some critical work
(06:29):
on, relating these projects andcampaigns to communities all
across the country and further,and they're making it
accessible, making all of thisinformation accessible to others
and making sure that weunderstand, while I live in
Philadelphia, I can see what'sgoing on in Alaska.
And in California and inWyoming.
And so we have a better sense ofhow these changes are impacting
(06:51):
different communities.
But there's such a interplay ofhow public spaces and the
environment affect so manydifferent industries.
Katie, feel free to jump in.
Katie Johnson (07:01):
I think you covered it.
I think it just shows that whatwe're working on is really
common ground for so many folksand it really brings folks
together in a way that otherissues may not, and we're lucky.
Missy Rentz (07:11):
We're really lucky that all of it is coming
together.
I read recently that the outdoorindustry is a trillion dollar
industry.
When you really start to connectthe dots and, and add up all
that are involved, so it's apowerful group of businesses and
individuals that are in thisspace.
And there are a lot of groupsthat talk about helping the
(07:34):
environment and it can getreally confusing to someone
who's not ingrained to betterunderstand who is who and what
everyone does.
How does the ConservationAlliance differ from all of
these other park associations,conservation and clubs that we
see?
How do you differ from them andhow does someone navigate where
(07:55):
they belong?
Kim Paymaster (07:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
And we work closely with anumber of conservation focused
organizations and groups, andhonestly, we couldn't do the
work without them, so we reallyvalue those partnerships.
I would say TCA plays a real.
Unique role with our ability tospecifically bring in the
business community and from awide range of sectors as we just
(08:16):
talked about.
All of our businesses are reallycommitted to protecting those
spaces, and because of that, itmeans we're really able to widen
that tent and talk about theimpacts of protection across so
many industries.
So we've, as we mentioned,outdoor recreation, food and
beverage, renewable energy, andso many more.
And then at the same time, we'reable to deepen our impact by
(08:36):
partnering with our grantees.
So we've got local and nationalgroups that have on the ground
expertise and relationships thatthey can bring to these projects
and campaigns.
They can talk about whatprotection means for their
communities and for individuals.
So we do this through bothpublic and private land
protection.
And so that means we may beworking on designating a new
(08:58):
national monument, which we hada few of in the past few years,
which was exciting.
Or we may be helping a landtrust to acquire, some new land
that can become a park, awildlife refuge, or other public
spaces.
And I would say like.
How we differ.
There's times where we haveprojects that are supported just
through our grant program andothers where the advocacy team
(09:18):
really steps in with ourbusiness members.
And each of those are great, butthere are those times where
we're able to really bring ourgrantees together with our
business members, talk toelected officials and others.
And that, I would say is a bitof the special sauce for TCA.
It's really where we highlightwhat we do.
Missy Rentz (09:36):
Yeah, I have been lucky enough to witness in a
presentation where theConservation Alliance and some
other organizations Joined upfor a presentation and it's
really powerful when everybodycomes together, which brings me
to the outdoor economy, andwe've maybe answered some of
this already, but can youexplain what is the outdoor
(09:59):
economy and why does it matterthat it's being positioned in a
collective way?
Kim Paymaster (10:05):
Yeah.
I would say, just building offof, you know what I was just
saying in terms of the number ofplayers in this space.
The outdoor industry is made upof a large number of players.
So you've got these private.
Sector businesses workingalongside nonprofits.
And then you've got governmentagencies and entities at the
local, state and federal levels,that are all focused on
(10:26):
recreation gear provisionservices, as well as the
management of land and water.
So all of these different piecescoming together.
And then when we're talkingabout the.
Outdoor economy specifically,it's those financial pieces that
layer back up to each of thoseservice areas.
And when we're talking aboutrecreation conservation of key
(10:46):
landscapes we're talking about alot of the activities you, I,
and others participate in.
So running, camping, fishing,hunting any of those that come
to mind.
And so obviously.
It costs us some money to getinto a park, from certain parks,
but there's also all the gearthat goes along with that.
And then there's also like theaccess groups that help, fund
(11:07):
trail maintenance, making surethat we can go hiking.
there's the Outfitters andGuides.
The adventure tourism pieces,the media pieces there's so many
different layers to this, and asyou mentioned, Missy, it's a
huge part of the economy.
So right now it's a$1.2 trillionindustry, which means that it
generates a ton of jobs.
(11:27):
It increases outdoor access forso many people.
It allows us to advocate forconservation priorities, which
we're at, we at TCA are doingall the time.
And then it supports the healthof all of these businesses and
communities across the countryand more.
Missy Rentz (11:44):
As you're talking and naming the different
examples, it seems to me thatthere's probably not very many
businesses or industries thataren't impacted by the work that
you're doing.
so.
You've talked a little bit aboutthe businesses, and I feel like
I have a clear picture of thebusiness side of things, but
then there's the grantee and thework that's being done.
(12:08):
Tell me a little bit about whatthe Conservation Alliance has
done, is working on and is goingto be working on in the future.
Kim Paymaster (12:17):
Awesome.
I will jump in at a very locallevel, but Katie's got the deep
knowledge on a lot of ournational priorities right now
that we're honing in on.
So I would say we do a lot ofgreat work with local
organizations on a number ofdifferent, in a number of
different ways.
Some of our.
Land trusts, for instance, arelooking at private land and how
we can make that more accessibleto local communities for park
(12:40):
space and other opportunities.
One of the ones that I'm superexcited about right now is just
outside of Asheville in NorthCarolina.
So we're working with theSouthern Appalachian Highlands
Conservancy.
Who is working directly with thelocal county to purchase 342
acres there.
As you and probably a lot ofyour listeners know, last year
(13:01):
that region got really hit hardby Hurricane Helene and the
damage there was just so awful.
And so this organization and itspartners are working to create
the county's largest park.
And it'll be just five milesoutside of the city center
making it really.
Accessible to local communitiesout there.
It already has a network oftrails, so they'll continue to
(13:21):
build off of that.
And so it'll add a ton of accessfor local communities.
But as we've been talking about,it's also gonna have such a huge
impact on the economy there.
As we talk about impacts forthese local communities, access
to green space and for parkspace is gonna be huge.
And that's just at the locallevel.
So I'm gonna, Katie, feel freeto jump in on our more national
(13:43):
priorities.
Katie Johnson (13:44):
Yeah like Kim mentioned, we have some kind of
priority campaign focuses thatwe identify each year and each
of those priority campaigns orthose landscapes that we're
looking to either defend orprotect.
We will partner with granteesthat are on the ground and
they're the subject matterexperts in that landscape and in
that space, and offering us waysthat we can help support the
(14:04):
business community in thoseconservation efforts.
So the Boundary Waters, canoeArea Wilderness is one of our
big priority campaigns this yearand protecting that critical
landscape and that criticalwatershed, and we work.
With the Save the BoundaryWaters team on the ground there
to help partner with businessesand identify how that business
voice can lend itself toprotecting and preserving that
(14:25):
space.
Another priority campaign ofours is the Baaj Nwaavjo I'tah
Kukveni ancestral footprints ofthe Grand Canyon National
Monument.
And we work really closely withGrand Canyon Trust on that
landscape as well.
And they're really familiar withthe day-to-day of how that
landscape is so critical to allof the neighboring communities
in that space.
They have great relationshipswith the local businesses there
(14:47):
that allow for that businessvoice to really uplift those
protection efforts.
Missy Rentz (14:51):
I love the variety of needs that you address.
Sometimes it's about a fishspecies that you're protecting
and sometimes it's a land issue,and it's just really diverse how
you are able to identify what isimportant in different parts of
North America.
Katie Johnson (15:09):
We're super lucky.
So we have grantees and on theground folks working across the
country on all scale projects,but we also have businesses that
are looking to engage indifferent ways.
So of the 200 plus businessesthat we have.
Advocacy and conservation isgonna look different for every
single one of them.
And so that really allows us toexpand our reach of what we're
(15:30):
protecting or what we'redefending and how we're doing
that because everybody has adifferent interest or a
different priority that maybe isslightly different from the next
person, but all comes backtogether to those conservation
efforts.
So we're lucky in that we havethe partnerships that we have,
both with those nonprofit groupsand those grantees on the
ground, but also for thesebusinesses that are really
showcasing why this is soimportant to them.
Missy Rentz (15:52):
My impression, and you all will correct me if I'm
wrong, is that the ConservationAlliance provides the grant, but
you are very involved throughoutthe process, ensuring that
progress is made on projects
Katie Johnson (16:08):
I'd say we're involved in that.
We're offering our supportacross the way.
So we're fully trusting of thefolks that are receiving this
funding and this support from usto do what they do best, but we
wanna be there to support themand again, connect that business
voice to what they're doing.
So what are the efforts thatyou're pursuing, and how does
this local business or thisnational business voice lend
(16:29):
itself to your cause?
And how can we be the connectorthere?
For our priority campaigns, I'mextremely lucky.
I get to meet with all of ourpriority campaign grantees once
a month, so I get to understandwhat they're doing and how
they're working on theseprojects and how we can support
and we're really just staying insuch close touch on what's going
on.
And so the minute we have adecision that impacts that
(16:50):
landscape, we can react andsupport the business voice in
responding how they need torespond.
Missy Rentz (16:56):
Wow, that seems like a huge benefit.
'cause I imagine some of theseprojects that you are working on
do not have the power and thevoice that you can bring to the
table in supporting them.
So.
The next thing I wanna talkabout is how.
How do the rest of us help?
How do we get involved?
What can we do?
(17:17):
And particularly with what'sgoing on with our public lands,
I feel it's a constant battleevery time we turn around.
So in May and June, there was ahuge push that successfully
stopped a bill from selling thepublic lands.
And I think we only got tocelebrate the victory for a
minute and.
Now there's other things thatare being introduced, and
(17:38):
oftentimes what will hurt ourpublic lands is hidden in other
things.
What is at risk now, and I'mgonna say now because it's
September, 2025, and by October,2025, we may have to talk about
something completely different.
So what's at risk now that weall need to be aware of?
Katie Johnson (18:00):
It is a great question and I'll start by just
saying it's worth it toacknowledge.
the wins, even if it's minimal,right?
Like we have to take that onesecond and just say okay, we
have this win, but, and thenlook forward to what's next.
Yeah.
So right now we are monitoring acouple of different things that
could occupy that same space.
We're grateful that the publicland sales didn't go through
(18:21):
earlier this year, but that'scertainly.
Likely to be back on the tableat some point.
And so we want to not be caughton our heels, one of the areas
that we're really focusing onright now is the Roadless rule
rescission efforts by the USDA.
There was act there wereactually right in the middle of
a comment period right now.
So there's a comment periodwhere the USDA is gathering
information from the public tounderstand how roadless areas,
(18:42):
if the they're not protected,what that would mean for our
public lands access, whetherthat's recreation or gateway
communities, et cetera.
The roadless rule was enacted in2001 and it protects undeveloped
forest service areas fromadditional roads being built and
then also from being utilizedfor extractive purposes or
additional industrialdevelopments, et cetera.
(19:04):
So the USDA is looking torescind that rule and would,
that would open up and allowmore roads to be built in those
areas.
And so right now people cancomment on regulations.gov to
say, this is what.
I wanna inform the USDA asthey're making these decisions
and looking at what therescission could look like or
will look like moving forward.
This is a multi-step process, sowe're in the first comment
(19:26):
period of what will be likelymore than one comment period and
more than one phase throughoutthis.
And so just people staying up todate, staying in tune with
what's going on.
It's really easy to say, okay, Iput my comment in and now I did
the work that I need to do, butthe work isn't over.
And that's what we learned from.
Earlier this year in the publicland sale efforts is that the
work is never gonna be over.
(19:47):
So we're lucky that we have somany folks that care about our
public lands, and it is reallya.
A catchall in terms of who'sinvested and why they're
invested into our spaces.
And regardless of your reason oryour activity or your purpose
outside, there's room foreverybody.
And so understanding what thatlooks like and sharing those
comments and sharing thatfeedback is the first thing that
(20:07):
we can do.
That's more of like anindividual call to action.
We also are, we work a lot withbusinesses and so folks are
interested in joining TCA as amember or a brand member that
they're not already involvedwith.
We'd love to have thoseconversations.
We also have.
A coalition of businesses calledBrands for Public Lands that was
started up earlier this year,and that is a coalition of folks
(20:29):
that are really working togethercollectively to defend our
public lands, whatever that maylook like.
So earlier this year, it was thepublic land sales defense.
Now we're working with folks inthat coalition on roadless, rule
defense, et cetera.
There's a lot that's going onand there's a lot that people
can do either in their personallives or from a business side of
things.
And I think the last thing Iwould say on this is that if you
(20:50):
are an individual that islooking to support businesses in
their work in this space, findthe brands that have those
community initiatives that areoutlined on their websites or
their social media, or, identifythat as part of their brand.
DNA, if you know that yourfavorite gear company is.
Supporting these efforts, that'sa way that you can support this
initiative.
One degree separated issupporting that business and
(21:13):
supporting that brand, and thatstill matters in the long run.
So it's a mixed web of all ofthose things.
Missy Rentz (21:19):
Yeah, I think sometimes people forget two
things.
I think they forget that.
If they're a small brand, theyassume they don't have power,
but they do.
They have a lot of power.
And then I think as individuals,you always hear your vote
matters, but sometimes more thanthat.
In many respects, our dollarmatters and if we're paying
(21:41):
attention to who we're spendingour dollars with and making sure
it aligns with our values, itmakes a big difference.
Katie Johnson (21:48):
It really does.
Missy Rentz (21:49):
Are you all aware of a place where people can go
to learn about brands thatthey're buying from and that
they are supporting andlearning?
If a brand does in fact supporttheir values,
Katie Johnson (22:03):
it's a great question.
So on the Conservation Alliancewebsite you can see all of our
members.
And so that will give people, Ithink, like a first clue into
how they're interacting with thework that we're doing.
I know in my experience a lot ofbrands will share that on their
website, whether it's undertheir community page or their
philanthropy page, or evensometimes their sustainability
page.
All of that ties together to howthey're interacting.
(22:26):
And then I think social media issuper powerful.
I think a lot of folks arewilling to uplift and share
these conservation efforts ontheir social channels, and I
think that's an easy way forpeople to identify where these
brands are standing and howthey're aligning with your own
personal values.
Missy Rentz (22:41):
That is really important.
the Conservation Alliance hasteamed up with a lot of other
organizations on awareness toadvocate for our public lands.
I know we mentioned the Roadlessrule.
What are you guys doing now?
Anything that we need to beaware of?
Katie Johnson (22:57):
Yeah.
I think for our crew, thepriority campaigns that I
mentioned, so we have six totalthat we're focusing on will be a
huge focus for us both this yearand next year.
Some of those are landscapespecific, some of them have a
national reach.
We kind of work in both sectors.
In addition to that, all of ourgrantees and all of our partners
that we work with will continueto work with, there's a few
(23:18):
groups that we work with,outdoor Alliance and Outdoor
Industry Association.
That work really closely with uson some of these efforts.
And so pulling our powerstogether and making as big of an
impact as we possibly can issomething that we'll continue to
focus on.
As well as all of the partnersthat we've mentioned so far.
I think we've plugged quite afew in terms of the reach that
we have, but like Kim said, wecan't do this, the work that we
(23:40):
do without all of the people atplay.
And so we'll continue to buildthose partnerships and those
relationships.
Kim Paymaster (23:47):
And I would also say like at the local level just
like there's land trust.
Across the entire country andbeing able to connect with your
local land trust.
We're obviously seeing a lot ofthreats to public land spaces.
We're unfortunately also seeingsome possible impacts on our
private land work and, and thoseland trusts.
So being able to connect to themas they look to create more
(24:07):
green space and public spaces,for local communities and seeing
where their needs are and whereyou might be able to volunteer
or, help them in their otherefforts.
Missy Rentz (24:17):
And how can a business get involved if they
feel that they're connected toyour mission in any way?
Katie Johnson (24:23):
Yeah, so for us, I think, the conversation starts
with.
Understanding what doesmembership or brands for public
lands involvement look like?
And then from there, identifyingwhere does advocacy fit into
your brand DNA, and how doesthat, how can we incorporate
that into the work that we dowith you?
So whether that's writing anop-ed or a letter to the editor
(24:44):
from one of your, executiveleadership or hosting an event
that highlights the importanceof a landscape and gets the
community involved or.
Writing a blog about users inthe space.
I think the options are endlessin terms of how folks can get
involved, and it's really up tous and the brand to identify
what is most important and whattheir priorities are in the
(25:05):
advocacy space, and then we canhelp support those and turn them
into action items and turn theminto results.
Missy Rentz (25:11):
So Katie, is it a process where there is a
conversation?
It's not just go and sign up.
Like if you are an organizationand you listen to this episode
and you realize that you careabout the environment and your
business aligns with the valuesand mission of the work that
you're doing, can they pick upthe phone and talk to someone
(25:32):
and better understand the role?
Katie Johnson (25:34):
Absolutely.
That is, I would say step one inthe conversation is just
understanding if the alignmentis there and how that alignment
looks for both sides.
I will say I wanted to add thisearlier.
We work with several brands thathave five or less employees, and
they're incredible and so activeand so vocal in these spaces.
So business size, like youmentioned earlier, is not always
(25:56):
the only factor to take intoconsideration.
And some of these really smallbusinesses or.
Medium sized businesses can makean incredibly huge impact.
And they're awesome to workwith.
So yes, encourage of allbusinesses, of all sizes to get
involved no matter what thatlooks like.
And yes, we have thatconversation of what are your
goals?
How can we help support that?
(26:16):
What would this partnership looklike?
And just really have thatconversation of how that looks
in both lenses and deciding whatworks best moving forward.
A lot of that can be foundinitially on our website.
Conservation Alliance.
But also we can have thoseconversations and yes, pick up
the phone or jump on an emailand figure out what makes sense.
Kim Paymaster (26:34):
I would also say that, for those small
businesses, and I think Katiehas seen this firsthand with her
priority campaigns, a lot ofthose small businesses, the
voices really matter.
In a deep way because they areso embedded in their communities
in a way that sometimes, likenational brands aren't.
And so I think those voices canoften matter to leaders, to
(26:55):
community members in a way thatis really unique and different.
And so I would urge, if you're asmall business and you're
interested, this is a way toamplify your voice.
And then our team, like Katieand others on our team, do such
a great job of working with youand your employees to really
think about how you can amplifythat voice.
So you don't have to have theexpertise in advocacy already.
(27:17):
There.
You don't even have tounderstand all the policy
implications.
We will do the education, thetraining.
We'll help you get there.
All you need to do is want toparticipate.
So yeah, I would definitelyencourage, pick up the phone,
call us reach out and we'rehappy to talk.
Missy Rentz (27:30):
What about an individual?
Is there a space for anindividual within the
Conservation Alliance?
Katie Johnson (27:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
People can stay up to date withwhat.
We're doing with ournewsletters, which you can sign
up on the website.
Also following along on socialmedia.
We post a lot of updates aroundour priority campaigns and
things that are top of mind forboth us, but also the business
community.
And then we also highlight allof our grantee work and success
stories.
And those little wins that wewere talking about are earlier
(27:58):
still, celebrating those.
And I think back to the point ofunderstanding how businesses are
involved in conservation.
Our channels are a great way todo that.
You'll see quotes from ourmember companies that are
highlighting current issues ortheir stance on an issue, and it
allows you to see firsthand whatthese businesses are doing and
how you can support both fromthe ground level, but also like
(28:20):
we said earlier, from thebusiness and consumer level as
well, because that reallymatters.
Kim Paymaster (28:24):
I think that obviously we are a business
network, but I think again, asKatie mentioned, there's ways to
stay informed.
There's also ways to learn aboutthe different organizations that
might be working in yourcommunities and then connecting
to those organizations.
We also have ways that you cansupport the work that we're
doing.
So if you look on our website,we've got, ways for individuals
to support our work through,lead a leading edge sponsorship
(28:48):
as we call it.
And so I think there's differentways whether you're interested
in connecting with local groupsin supporting this national kind
of business led approach orotherwise.
So happy to talk to individualsas well.
Missy Rentz (29:00):
You have brought up a lot of good ways that people
can get involved as individuals,and one of the things I will say
as an individual is that whatyou all are doing, teaching us
all how to advocate is reallyimportant.
And my heart says I need to bedoing a lot, but thankfully
(29:21):
we've lived in a period of timewhere we haven't really had to
advocate for things.
Katie Johnson (29:26):
And you'll find on our channels too, a little
bit more about what some ofthese are, some of the
vocabulary words that might notbe inherently known to, the
common public.
There are a lot of things thatI've learned just in my seven
months here that I didn't knowthese acronyms and abbreviations
and things.
So just that first level ofeducation and again, yeah, how
folks can get involved, but alsohow the businesses that you
(29:49):
support are getting involvedtoo.
What your role is in that and itlooks different for everybody.
Missy Rentz (29:54):
So what's at stake?
What's the future look like?
What do we all need to beconcerned about?
What do we need to celebrate?
What's next?
I.
Katie Johnson (30:02):
How much time do we have?
Just kidding.
I mean there's a lot at stake,right?
We saw that earlier this year.
There are, our public lands are.
Everywhere, and we're very luckyand very grateful for that.
But there is a lot at risk andthere's a lot at stake and
conservation and especially fromthe business lens is critical
(30:24):
right now.
The business voice carries areally significant weight,
especially in DC especiallyright now.
And so businesses taking astance and showcasing what's
important to them and what.
Is a priority for them in termsof advocacy or conservation or
community engagement or whateverthat looks like can make a huge
difference.
And it has and it will continueto.
(30:46):
And we're very lucky that we getto be.
Really smack in the middle ofthat, in, in between these
incredible businesses and theseincredible, folks on the ground
that are this accomplishing theincredible things and doing
incredible work to protect theselandscapes.
But there's a lot at stake andthere's a lot that people can
do.
And I would just say.
I've said it a couple of times,let's celebrate the little wins
(31:08):
and let's celebrate the pieceswhere we can celebrate with each
other and keep the communityfocused and moving forward.
And don't lose hope because ourvoice matters.
Everyone's voices matter.
And now more than ever, it'scritical to understand where you
lie in these topics and how youcan get involved and advocate
for what's most important toyou.
Kim Paymaster (31:28):
And I think.
Right now we're seeing, over thelast few years, and it's
continuing, we're seeing recordturnout in our public parks.
There are just so many peopleout there.
And so we know that these placesmatter to so many people, and I
think the scary part of what'shappening right now is that if
we lose access and if we loseprotection of these places, like
(31:49):
we don't get that back, once.
Once we have oil drillinghappening, once we have
extraction, it really changesthe landscape.
And so how do we think about thefuture of these places and what
it means to so many communitiesand so many people and how that
brings everyone together.
And I know so much is beingthrown at everyone right now,
and thinking about your favoriteplaces and how you advocate for,
(32:11):
protection of those places, is agreat place to start.
And then celebrate.
Yeah, celebrate each win.
And keep that going.
Missy Rentz (32:20):
I am really grateful to both of you for
sharing all of this informationwith us.
There's a lot of amazing workthat's being done, and we have
shared a lot of information onthis episode, so I'm going to
put links to all of thedifferent things we've talked
about.
On the Parks podcast webpage forthis episode.
(32:41):
So if you wanna learn more aboutthe work that the Conservation
Alliance is doing, how to getinvolved, then that way you can
go there and have direct linksto things that both Katie and
Kim have said today.
As we wrap up each episode, I doa speed round of questions and
just answer with what firstcomes to mind.
I'm gonna ask you both thequestions, so we'll ping pong
(33:03):
back and forth.
Let's start with Katie.
What is your earliest parkmemory?
I.
Katie Johnson (33:09):
I'm struggling with this.
I know it's supposed to be aspeed round.
I did a lot of camping as a kid,but the earliest memory I can
think of is going to the GrandCanyon back in 2016.
So not really that long ago, butthat's my first official park
memory that I can think of rightnow.
Missy Rentz (33:26):
Kim, what is your earliest park memory?
I.
Kim Paymaster (33:30):
Not as glorious as that.
I grew up on Long Island, so youknow, going out to the County
Park beaches was where I spent alot of my time.
Missy Rentz (33:37):
What made you love the parks?
Katie Johnson (33:39):
I think that the vastness of a lot of the
landscapes for some of theselarger parks is incredible, but
also the serenity of the localor smaller parks is equally
great and both unmatched fordifferent reasons.
Kim Paymaster (33:53):
I used to go when I had a hard day, and so I feel
like just the solitude, but alsothe way it can bring community
together.
Missy Rentz (34:00):
What is your favorite thing about the parks?
Katie Johnson (34:03):
I'd probably say something similar to what Kim
just said.
I think the community aspect andthe ability to come together.
I live in Southwest Coloradonow, and so I have a lot of
opportunity to enjoy our publicspaces in that way.
Kim Paymaster (34:19):
Would say that, I think there's something really
spiritual and there's thatconnection to nature is just
bigger than I think we allunderstand.
Missy Rentz (34:26):
And what is your favorite thing to do in a park?
I.
Katie Johnson (34:30):
I like finding the places that aren't super
popular.
What's the trail that's a littlebit more hidden or off the
beaten path, or what does thatlook like?
And I also really like birding.
Kim Paymaster (34:42):
And I love being on the water, so finding
different ways to do that.
Missy Rentz (34:47):
What park or public land have you yet to visit, but
it's on your bucket list andwhy?
Okay.
Katie Johnson (34:54):
Oh my gosh, so many.
Probably Yosemite and theRedwoods for me.
Kim Paymaster (35:01):
So I first went to National Parks and then
realized like probably right nowI would say Pine Creek Gorge in
Pennsylvania.
It's supposedly the Grand Canyonof Pennsylvania.
We'll see about that, but it'sactually two state parks and I'm
just, I'm really eager to gocheck it out.
Missy Rentz (35:16):
What are three must-haves you pack for a park
visit?
Katie Johnson (35:21):
Snacks, snacks and snacks.
Kim Paymaster (35:24):
Outside of water, I would say if I'm going
camping, a really good sleepingpad.
I think older age has broughtthat to be more important.
Some really good hiking shoesand then more water.
Missy Rentz (35:36):
What is your favorite campfire activity?
Katie Johnson (35:39):
Good conversation.
Kim Paymaster (35:41):
Yeah, I would say s'mores.
It's always been great and nowmy daughter's on board, so it's
perfect.
Missy Rentz (35:45):
And when you go to a park, are you staying in a
tent, camper, or cabin?
Katie Johnson (35:50):
I sleep in my Toyota Tacoma, so a little bit
of both.
Kim Paymaster (35:56):
I'm in a tent.
Missy Rentz (35:58):
Are you hiking with or without trekking poles?
Katie Johnson (36:04):
Newly width.
Kim Paymaster (36:05):
I will say I'm without and constantly thinking
about how I should change that.
Missy Rentz (36:10):
What is your favorite trail snack?
Katie Johnson (36:13):
I am hooked on walking tamales.
Kim Paymaster (36:16):
I'm gonna go boring and just say nuts and
chocolate.
Missy Rentz (36:20):
What is your favorite animal sighting?
Katie Johnson (36:23):
There's too many, oh, I lived in Florida for eight
years, so I've seen an amazingslew of birds over the years, so
I can't pick one.
But I've had some great birdsightings.
Kim Paymaster (36:36):
So we just went to a wildlife refuge a couple
weeks ago and saw a red fox outthere, and my daughter just lost
her mind.
So right now that's at the topof my list.
Missy Rentz (36:46):
What is your favorite sound in the park?
Katie Johnson (36:49):
Probably some sort of moving water, whether a
babbling brook or a waterfall ofsome kind.
Kim Paymaster (36:55):
And I would say like just whatever sound there
is, once everyone is quiet atnight, like the wildlife that
comes out, just what that is sodifferent in each place.
Missy Rentz (37:05):
What is the greatest gift that the parks
give to us?
Katie Johnson (37:09):
Access to these spaces and views that are
unmatched and can't findanywhere else.
Kim Paymaster (37:18):
And a reminder that there is something bigger
than us and it's amazing.
Missy Rentz (37:23):
Thank you both Katie and Kim.
Thanks to the ConservationAlliance for all the work that
you're doing, and I am reallygrateful to the both of you for
spending time talking to us andeducating us today.
Okay.
Kim Paymaster (37:35):
Thanks so much, Missy.
Really appreciate it.
Katie Johnson (37:38):
Thanks for having us.
Missy Rentz (37:39):
Thanks for listening.
Until next time, we'll see youin the parks.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please be sure to like and share
on your favorite podcastplatform.
Music for the parks podcast isperformed and produced by Porter
Hardy.
For more information, pleasefollow us on Instagram at the
parks podcast.
(37:59):
Or visit ourwebsite@theparkspodcast.com.
In this episode, you will hear reference of the
Roadless Rule and its publiccomment period.
Please note that this wasrecorded during that public
comment period, and it is nowclosed.
You can learn more about theRoadless rule on the two
previous episodes of the Parkspodcast.
Now, enjoy the episode.
(00:21):
Understanding the advocacy andconservation efforts happening
around the states can bedaunting.
Today, we learn about whatbusinesses and organizations are
doing to join forces to advocatefor our public lands.
Join me as we learn about ourbusiness champions.
I'm your host, Missy Renz, andthis is the Parks podcast.
(00:44):
In this episode of the Parks podcast, I'm thrilled
to welcome Kim Paymaster, Who isthe grant and program director
for the Conservation Alliance,and Katie Johnson, who is the
campaigns and engagement managerfor the Conservation Alliance.
Welcome to the Parks podcast.
Kim Paymaster (01:00):
Thanks so much, Missy.
So excited to be here.
Katie Johnson (01:02):
Thanks for having us.
Missy Rentz (01:04):
So I start each episode with Stats on Parks, but
with you, I wanted to share someof the stats on the Conservation
Alliance.
The Conservation Alliance ismade up of more than 200
companies, and 2024 you granted$1,651,000 to 47 projects across
(01:24):
North America.
In 1989, you awarded more than34.5 million grants to help
protect over 125 million acres.
4,964 river miles.
You removed or halted 43 damsand you purchased 22 climbing
areas and designated five marinereservations and one national
(01:48):
Marine sanctuary.
The Conservation Alliance isdoing amazing work in our public
land spaces.
Kim Paymaster (01:55):
Thanks so much, Missy, and we're gonna say we're
doing it alongside.
A lot of great partners.
Missy Rentz (01:59):
Yes, and we are definitely gonna get to that.
'cause I think in the outdoorspace, it really does take a
village.
But to start out, what is theconservation Alliance?
Kim Paymaster (02:10):
Excellent.
Great place to start.
Missy first I wanna say thankyou so much for having Katie and
I on today.
We're super excited to talk moreabout the work that we're doing
and how it impacts so many ofthe places that your listeners
are going to all the time and alot of the parks that you've
talked about on your podcast.
So back in 1989 a few of ourcurrent members, Kelty,
(02:32):
Patagonia, REI, in the NorthFace they came together
realizing that.
Their business bottom line.
And honestly like the interestsand expectations of their
customer base really relied onprotecting the outdoor spaces
that we all love.
And so at that time, they cametogether, put some money in, and
we awarded our first grant, a$40,000 grant at that time to
(02:55):
protect public spaces.
And now after 30 plus years,we've got over 200 business
members.
That have come together toprotect public spaces, and they
range across a wide array ofindustries.
But they're all coming togetherbecause they believe in
protecting wild spaces andoutdoor places that you, I, and
(03:15):
so many others care about, andthat are really critical to our
economy, the environment, andour communities.
So each year, these businessmembers, they provide dues and
we use those to support criticalconservation efforts on the
ground across North America.
So at the same time, thesebusinesses are working closely
with our team, Katie and otherson our team to engage in
(03:35):
advocacy efforts where they'remaking the economic and business
case for protecting land andwater.
Missy Rentz (03:41):
You just mentioned a few of the brands and members
that are involved, but I wannadig a little bit deeper because
I think for me, when I thinkabout conservation efforts, I
think about, the people thatare, have signup tables at the
mall or something like that, andI was really blown away with who
is involved in the work that youare doing.
(04:01):
So who do you work with?
Katie Johnson (04:04):
It's a great question, Missy, and we're
really fortunate to work with afew different groups of folks in
our day to day, as Kimmentioned, we work with a
variety of businesses.
This includes, but is certainlynot limited to outdoor industry
band brands that you might thinkof.
Some that Kim already mentioned,Patagonia, REI, et cetera.
But we also work with energyfocused companies, beverage
(04:25):
businesses, and a lot of otherindustries as well.
So we're really fortunate to beacross the table in terms of
what businesses we work with andhow they're engaged with our
work.
And then through our grantsprogram, we work with a lot of
different community ledorganizations, which includes
tribes and other folks that arecommitted to protecting clean
air, clean water, wild places,and watersheds across North
America.
(04:46):
In addition to our businessesand our grantees that we work
with, we also look to engagewith political and local leaders
across the aisle, and we workwith partners in the outdoor
recreation and conservationspace.
So just a few folks that we'rechatting with on the day to day.
Missy Rentz (05:00):
I am relatively new to this outdoor space and
learning, who the movers andshakers are.
But one of the things that'sinteresting to me and hearing
you talk about the partners isthat when I think about the
outdoor space, I think of apark.
A gear manufacturer and maybe ifI think really hard, I would get
to the tour group that's takingme out there, but you're
(05:24):
bringing up other people andorganizations, energy companies,
that's not super intuitive tome.
And I would never have gotten tothe point of thinking about a
beverage company unless it wasabout water for hydration.
So.
Why do people join and why is itso important to have all of
these different groups connectedto outdoor space?
Kim Paymaster (05:47):
I think I can start and Katie, feel free to
jump in, but I think so.
Missy.
That's a great question.
I think there's so many waysthat.
These businesses and their kindof, their brands like really
rely on the outdoors when we'retalking about beverage
companies.
Water is at the source of somany of these products and they
understand that their consumersare gonna rely on those clean
(06:08):
water sources.
And so understanding how weprotect those places is gonna be
critical, again, to theirbusiness model.
But then we've also got.
Media companies that are tryingto lift up public spaces.
And so we work with a number ofbig and small media brands, so
Flickr and others.
In that space that have reallystarted to do some critical work
(06:29):
on, relating these projects andcampaigns to communities all
across the country and further,and they're making it
accessible, making all of thisinformation accessible to others
and making sure that weunderstand, while I live in
Philadelphia, I can see what'sgoing on in Alaska.
And in California and inWyoming.
And so we have a better sense ofhow these changes are impacting
(06:51):
different communities.
But there's such a interplay ofhow public spaces and the
environment affect so manydifferent industries.
Katie, feel free to jump in.
Katie Johnson (07:01):
I think you covered it.
I think it just shows that whatwe're working on is really
common ground for so many folksand it really brings folks
together in a way that otherissues may not, and we're lucky.
Missy Rentz (07:11):
We're really lucky that all of it is coming
together.
I read recently that the outdoorindustry is a trillion dollar
industry.
When you really start to connectthe dots and, and add up all
that are involved, so it's apowerful group of businesses and
individuals that are in thisspace.
And there are a lot of groupsthat talk about helping the
(07:34):
environment and it can getreally confusing to someone
who's not ingrained to betterunderstand who is who and what
everyone does.
How does the ConservationAlliance differ from all of
these other park associations,conservation and clubs that we
see?
How do you differ from them andhow does someone navigate where
(07:55):
they belong?
Kim Paymaster (07:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
And we work closely with anumber of conservation focused
organizations and groups, andhonestly, we couldn't do the
work without them, so we reallyvalue those partnerships.
I would say TCA plays a real.
Unique role with our ability tospecifically bring in the
business community and from awide range of sectors as we just
(08:16):
talked about.
All of our businesses are reallycommitted to protecting those
spaces, and because of that, itmeans we're really able to widen
that tent and talk about theimpacts of protection across so
many industries.
So we've, as we mentioned,outdoor recreation, food and
beverage, renewable energy, andso many more.
And then at the same time, we'reable to deepen our impact by
(08:36):
partnering with our grantees.
So we've got local and nationalgroups that have on the ground
expertise and relationships thatthey can bring to these projects
and campaigns.
They can talk about whatprotection means for their
communities and for individuals.
So we do this through bothpublic and private land
protection.
And so that means we may beworking on designating a new
(08:58):
national monument, which we hada few of in the past few years,
which was exciting.
Or we may be helping a landtrust to acquire, some new land
that can become a park, awildlife refuge, or other public
spaces.
And I would say like.
How we differ.
There's times where we haveprojects that are supported just
through our grant program andothers where the advocacy team
(09:18):
really steps in with ourbusiness members.
And each of those are great, butthere are those times where
we're able to really bring ourgrantees together with our
business members, talk toelected officials and others.
And that, I would say is a bitof the special sauce for TCA.
It's really where we highlightwhat we do.
Missy Rentz (09:36):
Yeah, I have been lucky enough to witness in a
presentation where theConservation Alliance and some
other organizations Joined upfor a presentation and it's
really powerful when everybodycomes together, which brings me
to the outdoor economy, andwe've maybe answered some of
this already, but can youexplain what is the outdoor
(09:59):
economy and why does it matterthat it's being positioned in a
collective way?
Kim Paymaster (10:05):
Yeah.
I would say, just building offof, you know what I was just
saying in terms of the number ofplayers in this space.
The outdoor industry is made upof a large number of players.
So you've got these private.
Sector businesses workingalongside nonprofits.
And then you've got governmentagencies and entities at the
local, state and federal levels,that are all focused on
(10:26):
recreation gear provisionservices, as well as the
management of land and water.
So all of these different piecescoming together.
And then when we're talkingabout the.
Outdoor economy specifically,it's those financial pieces that
layer back up to each of thoseservice areas.
And when we're talking aboutrecreation conservation of key
(10:46):
landscapes we're talking about alot of the activities you, I,
and others participate in.
So running, camping, fishing,hunting any of those that come
to mind.
And so obviously.
It costs us some money to getinto a park, from certain parks,
but there's also all the gearthat goes along with that.
And then there's also like theaccess groups that help, fund
(11:07):
trail maintenance, making surethat we can go hiking.
there's the Outfitters andGuides.
The adventure tourism pieces,the media pieces there's so many
different layers to this, and asyou mentioned, Missy, it's a
huge part of the economy.
So right now it's a$1.2 trillionindustry, which means that it
generates a ton of jobs.
(11:27):
It increases outdoor access forso many people.
It allows us to advocate forconservation priorities, which
we're at, we at TCA are doingall the time.
And then it supports the healthof all of these businesses and
communities across the countryand more.
Missy Rentz (11:44):
As you're talking and naming the different
examples, it seems to me thatthere's probably not very many
businesses or industries thataren't impacted by the work that
you're doing.
so.
You've talked a little bit aboutthe businesses, and I feel like
I have a clear picture of thebusiness side of things, but
then there's the grantee and thework that's being done.
(12:08):
Tell me a little bit about whatthe Conservation Alliance has
done, is working on and is goingto be working on in the future.
Kim Paymaster (12:17):
Awesome.
I will jump in at a very locallevel, but Katie's got the deep
knowledge on a lot of ournational priorities right now
that we're honing in on.
So I would say we do a lot ofgreat work with local
organizations on a number ofdifferent, in a number of
different ways.
Some of our.
Land trusts, for instance, arelooking at private land and how
we can make that more accessibleto local communities for park
(12:40):
space and other opportunities.
One of the ones that I'm superexcited about right now is just
outside of Asheville in NorthCarolina.
So we're working with theSouthern Appalachian Highlands
Conservancy.
Who is working directly with thelocal county to purchase 342
acres there.
As you and probably a lot ofyour listeners know, last year
(13:01):
that region got really hit hardby Hurricane Helene and the
damage there was just so awful.
And so this organization and itspartners are working to create
the county's largest park.
And it'll be just five milesoutside of the city center
making it really.
Accessible to local communitiesout there.
It already has a network oftrails, so they'll continue to
(13:21):
build off of that.
And so it'll add a ton of accessfor local communities.
But as we've been talking about,it's also gonna have such a huge
impact on the economy there.
As we talk about impacts forthese local communities, access
to green space and for parkspace is gonna be huge.
And that's just at the locallevel.
So I'm gonna, Katie, feel freeto jump in on our more national
(13:43):
priorities.
Katie Johnson (13:44):
Yeah like Kim mentioned, we have some kind of
priority campaign focuses thatwe identify each year and each
of those priority campaigns orthose landscapes that we're
looking to either defend orprotect.
We will partner with granteesthat are on the ground and
they're the subject matterexperts in that landscape and in
that space, and offering us waysthat we can help support the
(14:04):
business community in thoseconservation efforts.
So the Boundary Waters, canoeArea Wilderness is one of our
big priority campaigns this yearand protecting that critical
landscape and that criticalwatershed, and we work.
With the Save the BoundaryWaters team on the ground there
to help partner with businessesand identify how that business
voice can lend itself toprotecting and preserving that
(14:25):
space.
Another priority campaign ofours is the Baaj Nwaavjo I'tah
Kukveni ancestral footprints ofthe Grand Canyon National
Monument.
And we work really closely withGrand Canyon Trust on that
landscape as well.
And they're really familiar withthe day-to-day of how that
landscape is so critical to allof the neighboring communities
in that space.
They have great relationshipswith the local businesses there
(14:47):
that allow for that businessvoice to really uplift those
protection efforts.
Missy Rentz (14:51):
I love the variety of needs that you address.
Sometimes it's about a fishspecies that you're protecting
and sometimes it's a land issue,and it's just really diverse how
you are able to identify what isimportant in different parts of
North America.
Katie Johnson (15:09):
We're super lucky.
So we have grantees and on theground folks working across the
country on all scale projects,but we also have businesses that
are looking to engage indifferent ways.
So of the 200 plus businessesthat we have.
Advocacy and conservation isgonna look different for every
single one of them.
And so that really allows us toexpand our reach of what we're
(15:30):
protecting or what we'redefending and how we're doing
that because everybody has adifferent interest or a
different priority that maybe isslightly different from the next
person, but all comes backtogether to those conservation
efforts.
So we're lucky in that we havethe partnerships that we have,
both with those nonprofit groupsand those grantees on the
ground, but also for thesebusinesses that are really
showcasing why this is soimportant to them.
Missy Rentz (15:52):
My impression, and you all will correct me if I'm
wrong, is that the ConservationAlliance provides the grant, but
you are very involved throughoutthe process, ensuring that
progress is made on projects
Katie Johnson (16:08):
I'd say we're involved in that.
We're offering our supportacross the way.
So we're fully trusting of thefolks that are receiving this
funding and this support from usto do what they do best, but we
wanna be there to support themand again, connect that business
voice to what they're doing.
So what are the efforts thatyou're pursuing, and how does
this local business or thisnational business voice lend
(16:29):
itself to your cause?
And how can we be the connectorthere?
For our priority campaigns, I'mextremely lucky.
I get to meet with all of ourpriority campaign grantees once
a month, so I get to understandwhat they're doing and how
they're working on theseprojects and how we can support
and we're really just staying insuch close touch on what's going
on.
And so the minute we have adecision that impacts that
(16:50):
landscape, we can react andsupport the business voice in
responding how they need torespond.
Missy Rentz (16:56):
Wow, that seems like a huge benefit.
'cause I imagine some of theseprojects that you are working on
do not have the power and thevoice that you can bring to the
table in supporting them.
So.
The next thing I wanna talkabout is how.
How do the rest of us help?
How do we get involved?
What can we do?
(17:17):
And particularly with what'sgoing on with our public lands,
I feel it's a constant battleevery time we turn around.
So in May and June, there was ahuge push that successfully
stopped a bill from selling thepublic lands.
And I think we only got tocelebrate the victory for a
minute and.
Now there's other things thatare being introduced, and
(17:38):
oftentimes what will hurt ourpublic lands is hidden in other
things.
What is at risk now, and I'mgonna say now because it's
September, 2025, and by October,2025, we may have to talk about
something completely different.
So what's at risk now that weall need to be aware of?
Katie Johnson (18:00):
It is a great question and I'll start by just
saying it's worth it toacknowledge.
the wins, even if it's minimal,right?
Like we have to take that onesecond and just say okay, we
have this win, but, and thenlook forward to what's next.
Yeah.
So right now we are monitoring acouple of different things that
could occupy that same space.
We're grateful that the publicland sales didn't go through
(18:21):
earlier this year, but that'scertainly.
Likely to be back on the tableat some point.
And so we want to not be caughton our heels, one of the areas
that we're really focusing onright now is the Roadless rule
rescission efforts by the USDA.
There was act there wereactually right in the middle of
a comment period right now.
So there's a comment periodwhere the USDA is gathering
information from the public tounderstand how roadless areas,
(18:42):
if the they're not protected,what that would mean for our
public lands access, whetherthat's recreation or gateway
communities, et cetera.
The roadless rule was enacted in2001 and it protects undeveloped
forest service areas fromadditional roads being built and
then also from being utilizedfor extractive purposes or
additional industrialdevelopments, et cetera.
(19:04):
So the USDA is looking torescind that rule and would,
that would open up and allowmore roads to be built in those
areas.
And so right now people cancomment on regulations.gov to
say, this is what.
I wanna inform the USDA asthey're making these decisions
and looking at what therescission could look like or
will look like moving forward.
This is a multi-step process, sowe're in the first comment
(19:26):
period of what will be likelymore than one comment period and
more than one phase throughoutthis.
And so just people staying up todate, staying in tune with
what's going on.
It's really easy to say, okay, Iput my comment in and now I did
the work that I need to do, butthe work isn't over.
And that's what we learned from.
Earlier this year in the publicland sale efforts is that the
work is never gonna be over.
(19:47):
So we're lucky that we have somany folks that care about our
public lands, and it is reallya.
A catchall in terms of who'sinvested and why they're
invested into our spaces.
And regardless of your reason oryour activity or your purpose
outside, there's room foreverybody.
And so understanding what thatlooks like and sharing those
comments and sharing thatfeedback is the first thing that
(20:07):
we can do.
That's more of like anindividual call to action.
We also are, we work a lot withbusinesses and so folks are
interested in joining TCA as amember or a brand member that
they're not already involvedwith.
We'd love to have thoseconversations.
We also have.
A coalition of businesses calledBrands for Public Lands that was
started up earlier this year,and that is a coalition of folks
(20:29):
that are really working togethercollectively to defend our
public lands, whatever that maylook like.
So earlier this year, it was thepublic land sales defense.
Now we're working with folks inthat coalition on roadless, rule
defense, et cetera.
There's a lot that's going onand there's a lot that people
can do either in their personallives or from a business side of
things.
And I think the last thing Iwould say on this is that if you
(20:50):
are an individual that islooking to support businesses in
their work in this space, findthe brands that have those
community initiatives that areoutlined on their websites or
their social media, or, identifythat as part of their brand.
DNA, if you know that yourfavorite gear company is.
Supporting these efforts, that'sa way that you can support this
initiative.
One degree separated issupporting that business and
(21:13):
supporting that brand, and thatstill matters in the long run.
So it's a mixed web of all ofthose things.
Missy Rentz (21:19):
Yeah, I think sometimes people forget two
things.
I think they forget that.
If they're a small brand, theyassume they don't have power,
but they do.
They have a lot of power.
And then I think as individuals,you always hear your vote
matters, but sometimes more thanthat.
In many respects, our dollarmatters and if we're paying
(21:41):
attention to who we're spendingour dollars with and making sure
it aligns with our values, itmakes a big difference.
Katie Johnson (21:48):
It really does.
Missy Rentz (21:49):
Are you all aware of a place where people can go
to learn about brands thatthey're buying from and that
they are supporting andlearning?
If a brand does in fact supporttheir values,
Katie Johnson (22:03):
it's a great question.
So on the Conservation Alliancewebsite you can see all of our
members.
And so that will give people, Ithink, like a first clue into
how they're interacting with thework that we're doing.
I know in my experience a lot ofbrands will share that on their
website, whether it's undertheir community page or their
philanthropy page, or evensometimes their sustainability
page.
All of that ties together to howthey're interacting.
(22:26):
And then I think social media issuper powerful.
I think a lot of folks arewilling to uplift and share
these conservation efforts ontheir social channels, and I
think that's an easy way forpeople to identify where these
brands are standing and howthey're aligning with your own
personal values.
Missy Rentz (22:41):
That is really important.
the Conservation Alliance hasteamed up with a lot of other
organizations on awareness toadvocate for our public lands.
I know we mentioned the Roadlessrule.
What are you guys doing now?
Anything that we need to beaware of?
Katie Johnson (22:57):
Yeah.
I think for our crew, thepriority campaigns that I
mentioned, so we have six totalthat we're focusing on will be a
huge focus for us both this yearand next year.
Some of those are landscapespecific, some of them have a
national reach.
We kind of work in both sectors.
In addition to that, all of ourgrantees and all of our partners
that we work with will continueto work with, there's a few
(23:18):
groups that we work with,outdoor Alliance and Outdoor
Industry Association.
That work really closely with uson some of these efforts.
And so pulling our powerstogether and making as big of an
impact as we possibly can issomething that we'll continue to
focus on.
As well as all of the partnersthat we've mentioned so far.
I think we've plugged quite afew in terms of the reach that
we have, but like Kim said, wecan't do this, the work that we
(23:40):
do without all of the people atplay.
And so we'll continue to buildthose partnerships and those
relationships.
Kim Paymaster (23:47):
And I would also say like at the local level just
like there's land trust.
Across the entire country andbeing able to connect with your
local land trust.
We're obviously seeing a lot ofthreats to public land spaces.
We're unfortunately also seeingsome possible impacts on our
private land work and, and thoseland trusts.
So being able to connect to themas they look to create more
(24:07):
green space and public spaces,for local communities and seeing
where their needs are and whereyou might be able to volunteer
or, help them in their otherefforts.
Missy Rentz (24:17):
And how can a business get involved if they
feel that they're connected toyour mission in any way?
Katie Johnson (24:23):
Yeah, so for us, I think, the conversation starts
with.
Understanding what doesmembership or brands for public
lands involvement look like?
And then from there, identifyingwhere does advocacy fit into
your brand DNA, and how doesthat, how can we incorporate
that into the work that we dowith you?
So whether that's writing anop-ed or a letter to the editor
(24:44):
from one of your, executiveleadership or hosting an event
that highlights the importanceof a landscape and gets the
community involved or.
Writing a blog about users inthe space.
I think the options are endlessin terms of how folks can get
involved, and it's really up tous and the brand to identify
what is most important and whattheir priorities are in the
(25:05):
advocacy space, and then we canhelp support those and turn them
into action items and turn theminto results.
Missy Rentz (25:11):
So Katie, is it a process where there is a
conversation?
It's not just go and sign up.
Like if you are an organizationand you listen to this episode
and you realize that you careabout the environment and your
business aligns with the valuesand mission of the work that
you're doing, can they pick upthe phone and talk to someone
(25:32):
and better understand the role?
Katie Johnson (25:34):
Absolutely.
That is, I would say step one inthe conversation is just
understanding if the alignmentis there and how that alignment
looks for both sides.
I will say I wanted to add thisearlier.
We work with several brands thathave five or less employees, and
they're incredible and so activeand so vocal in these spaces.
So business size, like youmentioned earlier, is not always
(25:56):
the only factor to take intoconsideration.
And some of these really smallbusinesses or.
Medium sized businesses can makean incredibly huge impact.
And they're awesome to workwith.
So yes, encourage of allbusinesses, of all sizes to get
involved no matter what thatlooks like.
And yes, we have thatconversation of what are your
goals?
How can we help support that?
(26:16):
What would this partnership looklike?
And just really have thatconversation of how that looks
in both lenses and deciding whatworks best moving forward.
A lot of that can be foundinitially on our website.
Conservation Alliance.
But also we can have thoseconversations and yes, pick up
the phone or jump on an emailand figure out what makes sense.
Kim Paymaster (26:34):
I would also say that, for those small
businesses, and I think Katiehas seen this firsthand with her
priority campaigns, a lot ofthose small businesses, the
voices really matter.
In a deep way because they areso embedded in their communities
in a way that sometimes, likenational brands aren't.
And so I think those voices canoften matter to leaders, to
(26:55):
community members in a way thatis really unique and different.
And so I would urge, if you're asmall business and you're
interested, this is a way toamplify your voice.
And then our team, like Katieand others on our team, do such
a great job of working with youand your employees to really
think about how you can amplifythat voice.
So you don't have to have theexpertise in advocacy already.
(27:17):
There.
You don't even have tounderstand all the policy
implications.
We will do the education, thetraining.
We'll help you get there.
All you need to do is want toparticipate.
So yeah, I would definitelyencourage, pick up the phone,
call us reach out and we'rehappy to talk.
Missy Rentz (27:30):
What about an individual?
Is there a space for anindividual within the
Conservation Alliance?
Katie Johnson (27:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
People can stay up to date withwhat.
We're doing with ournewsletters, which you can sign
up on the website.
Also following along on socialmedia.
We post a lot of updates aroundour priority campaigns and
things that are top of mind forboth us, but also the business
community.
And then we also highlight allof our grantee work and success
stories.
And those little wins that wewere talking about are earlier
(27:58):
still, celebrating those.
And I think back to the point ofunderstanding how businesses are
involved in conservation.
Our channels are a great way todo that.
You'll see quotes from ourmember companies that are
highlighting current issues ortheir stance on an issue, and it
allows you to see firsthand whatthese businesses are doing and
how you can support both fromthe ground level, but also like
(28:20):
we said earlier, from thebusiness and consumer level as
well, because that reallymatters.
Kim Paymaster (28:24):
I think that obviously we are a business
network, but I think again, asKatie mentioned, there's ways to
stay informed.
There's also ways to learn aboutthe different organizations that
might be working in yourcommunities and then connecting
to those organizations.
We also have ways that you cansupport the work that we're
doing.
So if you look on our website,we've got, ways for individuals
to support our work through,lead a leading edge sponsorship
(28:48):
as we call it.
And so I think there's differentways whether you're interested
in connecting with local groupsin supporting this national kind
of business led approach orotherwise.
So happy to talk to individualsas well.
Missy Rentz (29:00):
You have brought up a lot of good ways that people
can get involved as individuals,and one of the things I will say
as an individual is that whatyou all are doing, teaching us
all how to advocate is reallyimportant.
And my heart says I need to bedoing a lot, but thankfully
(29:21):
we've lived in a period of timewhere we haven't really had to
advocate for things.
Katie Johnson (29:26):
And you'll find on our channels too, a little
bit more about what some ofthese are, some of the
vocabulary words that might notbe inherently known to, the
common public.
There are a lot of things thatI've learned just in my seven
months here that I didn't knowthese acronyms and abbreviations
and things.
So just that first level ofeducation and again, yeah, how
folks can get involved, but alsohow the businesses that you
(29:49):
support are getting involvedtoo.
What your role is in that and itlooks different for everybody.
Missy Rentz (29:54):
So what's at stake?
What's the future look like?
What do we all need to beconcerned about?
What do we need to celebrate?
What's next?
I.
Katie Johnson (30:02):
How much time do we have?
Just kidding.
I mean there's a lot at stake,right?
We saw that earlier this year.
There are, our public lands are.
Everywhere, and we're very luckyand very grateful for that.
But there is a lot at risk andthere's a lot at stake and
conservation and especially fromthe business lens is critical
(30:24):
right now.
The business voice carries areally significant weight,
especially in DC especiallyright now.
And so businesses taking astance and showcasing what's
important to them and what.
Is a priority for them in termsof advocacy or conservation or
community engagement or whateverthat looks like can make a huge
difference.
And it has and it will continueto.
(30:46):
And we're very lucky that we getto be.
Really smack in the middle ofthat, in, in between these
incredible businesses and theseincredible, folks on the ground
that are this accomplishing theincredible things and doing
incredible work to protect theselandscapes.
But there's a lot at stake andthere's a lot that people can
do.
And I would just say.
I've said it a couple of times,let's celebrate the little wins
(31:08):
and let's celebrate the pieceswhere we can celebrate with each
other and keep the communityfocused and moving forward.
And don't lose hope because ourvoice matters.
Everyone's voices matter.
And now more than ever, it'scritical to understand where you
lie in these topics and how youcan get involved and advocate
for what's most important toyou.
Kim Paymaster (31:28):
And I think.
Right now we're seeing, over thelast few years, and it's
continuing, we're seeing recordturnout in our public parks.
There are just so many peopleout there.
And so we know that these placesmatter to so many people, and I
think the scary part of what'shappening right now is that if
we lose access and if we loseprotection of these places, like
(31:49):
we don't get that back, once.
Once we have oil drillinghappening, once we have
extraction, it really changesthe landscape.
And so how do we think about thefuture of these places and what
it means to so many communitiesand so many people and how that
brings everyone together.
And I know so much is beingthrown at everyone right now,
and thinking about your favoriteplaces and how you advocate for,
(32:11):
protection of those places, is agreat place to start.
And then celebrate.
Yeah, celebrate each win.
And keep that going.
Missy Rentz (32:20):
I am really grateful to both of you for
sharing all of this informationwith us.
There's a lot of amazing workthat's being done, and we have
shared a lot of information onthis episode, so I'm going to
put links to all of thedifferent things we've talked
about.
On the Parks podcast webpage forthis episode.
(32:41):
So if you wanna learn more aboutthe work that the Conservation
Alliance is doing, how to getinvolved, then that way you can
go there and have direct linksto things that both Katie and
Kim have said today.
As we wrap up each episode, I doa speed round of questions and
just answer with what firstcomes to mind.
I'm gonna ask you both thequestions, so we'll ping pong
(33:03):
back and forth.
Let's start with Katie.
What is your earliest parkmemory?
I.
Katie Johnson (33:09):
I'm struggling with this.
I know it's supposed to be aspeed round.
I did a lot of camping as a kid,but the earliest memory I can
think of is going to the GrandCanyon back in 2016.
So not really that long ago, butthat's my first official park
memory that I can think of rightnow.
Missy Rentz (33:26):
Kim, what is your earliest park memory?
I.
Kim Paymaster (33:30):
Not as glorious as that.
I grew up on Long Island, so youknow, going out to the County
Park beaches was where I spent alot of my time.
Missy Rentz (33:37):
What made you love the parks?
Katie Johnson (33:39):
I think that the vastness of a lot of the
landscapes for some of theselarger parks is incredible, but
also the serenity of the localor smaller parks is equally
great and both unmatched fordifferent reasons.
Kim Paymaster (33:53):
I used to go when I had a hard day, and so I feel
like just the solitude, but alsothe way it can bring community
together.
Missy Rentz (34:00):
What is your favorite thing about the parks?
Katie Johnson (34:03):
I'd probably say something similar to what Kim
just said.
I think the community aspect andthe ability to come together.
I live in Southwest Coloradonow, and so I have a lot of
opportunity to enjoy our publicspaces in that way.
Kim Paymaster (34:19):
Would say that, I think there's something really
spiritual and there's thatconnection to nature is just
bigger than I think we allunderstand.
Missy Rentz (34:26):
And what is your favorite thing to do in a park?
I.
Katie Johnson (34:30):
I like finding the places that aren't super
popular.
What's the trail that's a littlebit more hidden or off the
beaten path, or what does thatlook like?
And I also really like birding.
Kim Paymaster (34:42):
And I love being on the water, so finding
different ways to do that.
Missy Rentz (34:47):
What park or public land have you yet to visit, but
it's on your bucket list andwhy?
Okay.
Katie Johnson (34:54):
Oh my gosh, so many.
Probably Yosemite and theRedwoods for me.
Kim Paymaster (35:01):
So I first went to National Parks and then
realized like probably right nowI would say Pine Creek Gorge in
Pennsylvania.
It's supposedly the Grand Canyonof Pennsylvania.
We'll see about that, but it'sactually two state parks and I'm
just, I'm really eager to gocheck it out.
Missy Rentz (35:16):
What are three must-haves you pack for a park
visit?
Katie Johnson (35:21):
Snacks, snacks and snacks.
Kim Paymaster (35:24):
Outside of water, I would say if I'm going
camping, a really good sleepingpad.
I think older age has broughtthat to be more important.
Some really good hiking shoesand then more water.
Missy Rentz (35:36):
What is your favorite campfire activity?
Katie Johnson (35:39):
Good conversation.
Kim Paymaster (35:41):
Yeah, I would say s'mores.
It's always been great and nowmy daughter's on board, so it's
perfect.
Missy Rentz (35:45):
And when you go to a park, are you staying in a
tent, camper, or cabin?
Katie Johnson (35:50):
I sleep in my Toyota Tacoma, so a little bit
of both.
Kim Paymaster (35:56):
I'm in a tent.
Missy Rentz (35:58):
Are you hiking with or without trekking poles?
Katie Johnson (36:04):
Newly width.
Kim Paymaster (36:05):
I will say I'm without and constantly thinking
about how I should change that.
Missy Rentz (36:10):
What is your favorite trail snack?
Katie Johnson (36:13):
I am hooked on walking tamales.
Kim Paymaster (36:16):
I'm gonna go boring and just say nuts and
chocolate.
Missy Rentz (36:20):
What is your favorite animal sighting?
Katie Johnson (36:23):
There's too many, oh, I lived in Florida for eight
years, so I've seen an amazingslew of birds over the years, so
I can't pick one.
But I've had some great birdsightings.
Kim Paymaster (36:36):
So we just went to a wildlife refuge a couple
weeks ago and saw a red fox outthere, and my daughter just lost
her mind.
So right now that's at the topof my list.
Missy Rentz (36:46):
What is your favorite sound in the park?
Katie Johnson (36:49):
Probably some sort of moving water, whether a
babbling brook or a waterfall ofsome kind.
Kim Paymaster (36:55):
And I would say like just whatever sound there
is, once everyone is quiet atnight, like the wildlife that
comes out, just what that is sodifferent in each place.
Missy Rentz (37:05):
What is the greatest gift that the parks
give to us?
Katie Johnson (37:09):
Access to these spaces and views that are
unmatched and can't findanywhere else.
Kim Paymaster (37:18):
And a reminder that there is something bigger
than us and it's amazing.
Missy Rentz (37:23):
Thank you both Katie and Kim.
Thanks to the ConservationAlliance for all the work that
you're doing, and I am reallygrateful to the both of you for
spending time talking to us andeducating us today.
Okay.
Kim Paymaster (37:35):
Thanks so much, Missy.
Really appreciate it.
Katie Johnson (37:38):
Thanks for having us.
Missy Rentz (37:39):
Thanks for listening.
Until next time, we'll see youin the parks.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please be sure to like and share
on your favorite podcastplatform.
Music for the parks podcast isperformed and produced by Porter
Hardy.
For more information, pleasefollow us on Instagram at the
parks podcast.
(37:59):
Or visit ourwebsite@theparkspodcast.com.
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