Jessica Bowser - Virginia Outdoor Adventures (Episode 26)

Jessica Bowser, from Virginia Outdoor Adventures, gives us a glimpse into her approach to planning park trips and learning new activities.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Our parks provide endless activities and
adventures, and our guest inthis episode is passionate about
teaching us how to enjoy thegreat outdoors.
Join us as we explore Virginiaoutdoor adventures.
I'm your host, Missy Renz, andthis is the Parks Podcast.

(00:21):
Today, we are so lucky to haveJessica Bowser, who is the host
of Virginia Outdoor Adventures.
Through her podcast, she takespeople on adventures and teaches
them all about the great funthat can be had in Virginia.
Jessica, welcome to the ParksPodcast.

SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Thank you so much for having me, Missy.
I'm a big fan of your show.

SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
Thank you.
Likewise.
Mutual admiration here.
So you are in the middle of yourfifth season of Virginia Outdoor
Adventures.
That's more than 80 episodes.
And you share so much knowledgeabout outdoor fun I use your
episode to guide my ownadventures.
Why did you decide to get intothe podcast world and share

(00:58):
these amazing stories?

SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Well, I am a lifelong learner and educator
and also a huge outdoorenthusiast.
And I think there are so manyincredible opportunities right
here in Virginia that peopledon't know about.
And so for years, I have beenexploring Virginia and sharing
those experiences, usually on apersonal level, like on my

(01:21):
personal social media accountswith friends and with family and
neighbors and things like that.
And so over the years I had alot of people say to me,
Jessica, you really should writea book or start a blog.
And I thought, yeah, well, who'sgot time for that?
Great idea, but not me.
But then the pandemic hit fiveyears ago and I was sitting at
home trying to figure out whatto do with my time, just like so

(01:41):
many of us were.
And the idea of a podcast cameto mind and I thought, I'm just
going to give this a try forfun.
And so I started it.
I had a couple of episodes.
that I launched and I reallydidn't know what to expect.
So I was incredibly surprisedwhen the podcast sort of took
off on its own.
And I remember thinking, who arethese people who are listening
to this?

(02:01):
But I think it was the rightplace in the right time.
Everybody was looking for a safeway to be outside and to
de-stress and to be able to seepeople in an environment that
they didn't have to worry aboutgetting infected or infecting
other people.
And so it was just the rightplace in the right time.
And so the podcast kind of tookoff and it hasn't stopped.

(02:22):
Like you said, I'm in seasonfive now.
I have officially 71 numberedepisodes, but bonus content
included is like over 80episodes.
And I can't honestly, Missy, Ican't honestly believe that I'm
still doing it.
But I think it just goes to showthat I'm not the only one who
thinks that Virginia is abeautiful, beautiful state with
lots of opportunities foroutdoor recreation.

SPEAKER_01 (02:44):
Yeah, not at all.
And one of the things I reallylove about yours, like the Parks
Podcast, we talk about a park ora public land.
And you really talk about a lotmore about the adventures that
can be had in these places andsometimes parks, sometimes
rivers, sometimes just all over.
Have you always been anadventure person?

SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Yeah, I think so.
I was fortunate to grow up in anarea that had a lot of outdoor
space and my backyard was reallyinteresting because it literally
dropped off a cliff into whatwas known as Metro Parks.
I grew up in the Cleveland areaand so I had wildlife coming
through my backyard all the timeand I I just remember being

(03:22):
really fascinated by theoutdoors and spending almost all
of my time outside as a child.
And I used to love watching thefoxes come through the yard and
the wild turkeys and the owlsand the deer and being just
enthralled with the changing ofthe seasons and all of it,
really.
So I think I made thatconnection to nature, which I

(03:43):
think is a big part of it, too,because I've met some folks who
haven't discovered the outdoorsuntil they were adults, and they
have very different connectionswith the outdoors than I do
because I think mine came from aplace of falling in love with
nature and of course you can dothe outdoors any which way you
want there's no right or wrongreason but I have friends who
like for example are trailrunners and they're just trying

(04:05):
to get a certain number of milesin or long distance backpackers
and and they're flying down thetrail because they've got a goal
in mind and it's to get to theend and and that style's not for
me but that's okay if that'syour style so I have always
really loved the outdoors and Ican't imagine myself not being
in the outdoors.
I love the way you say

SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
that.
You can do the outdoors anywhich way, because I think
that's really true.
And I think sometimes people canget maybe nervous or hung up on
that they should be doing it acertain way or have certain gear
or something like that.
And that's just not the case.

SPEAKER_00 (04:41):
That's right.
Yeah, the gear especially.
There's so many gear junkies outthere.
And people have asked me if Iwould do like a video showing my
gear closet or going through allof the things that I own.
And I'm like, well, it'd bereally short because even though
I've been doing this my wholelife, I don't want to accumulate
a bunch of junk and I don't wantto spend every last dime I have
on more and more gear.

(05:02):
Like for me, it's really aboutfocusing on what are the things
that I'm going to use most, likeget the best use out of what's
the best bang for my buck and,and not fall into that trap of
buying more and more and more.
I mean, the consumerism aroundoutdoor recreation is just the
same as it is with clothing andeverything else in our society.
So you can get sucked in prettyeasily.

(05:24):
I think anybody who's walkedinto an REI store will would
realize that pretty quickly.
But it's really focusing on justthe piece, the key pieces that
you need.
And and that's really it for me.

SPEAKER_01 (05:36):
So you have introduced me to so many
different things in Virginia, Ihave spent a majority of my life
here.
And I love that, to learn thatyou are not from here, because
you would think it with howknowledgeable you are.
But through your stories andepisodes, you show you've shown
me a different for Virginia.
What kind of stories do you lookto tell?
And how do you go about craftingthem?

SPEAKER_00 (05:58):
Well, I think first and foremost, it's about
community.
The outdoors has communitieswithin it.
All of us who live in Virginiaare a community, regardless of
whether or not we engage inoutdoor recreation or other
activities.
But we are all a community herein Virginia.
And then as you get to knowfolks who love the outdoors, you
start to find all these othersmaller communities within it.

(06:20):
So For example, there's amountain biking community and a
climbing community and a cavingcommunity.
So people find their niche andthen they find their people and
they get really engaged in it.
And it's really cool to meet thefolks because they're so
passionate.
And I find myself becoming amember of all these different
groups and it's through themthat I really learn about all of

(06:43):
these other activities that Ididn't know about.
As you said, I didn't grow uphere, but also even if you did,
unless you're really tuned intothat kind of stuff, you may not
even know that these communitiesexist around you.
So I love the sense ofcommunity.
And as I'm telling stories, Itry to keep that top of mind
when I'm sharing what there isto do here in Virginia, because

(07:03):
a lot of folks, especially ifthey're newbies, might be
feeling a little bitintimidated.
And I think if you can findother people like you, then
you're much more likely to feelmore comfortable and to get
engaged.
So for example, I have episodesthat focus on like different
hiking groups, not just hiking,right?
So for example, I just recentlydid an episode with the hiking

(07:26):
group, Girls Who Hike Virginia,and they are very, very active.
They do hundreds of events allacross Virginia every year.
And some of them are beginnerlevel.
Some of them are more advanced.
They even have a backpackingsubgroup within their group.
So there's a lot of differentopportunities to find your
people and get engaged.
But I think community is key fora lot of people when it to grow

(07:51):
as an outdoor recreationist.
And I love that you'll

SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
do things too that are tangential to the
activities.
Like you've talked tonaturalists and authors and
you'll talk about forest bathingor you advocate for the parks.
And I think it's just reallyinteresting how broad you have
made the story, but it's allabout outdoor fun.

SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
Yes.
And I think all of those things,they're all connected.
I have people ask me a lot aboutthe advocacy components of
things.
And when I think think backabout why we have parks today.
It's because somebody had avision for the parks and what
they would do for our communityand the role they would play.
And they invested in thatvision.
And it's because of that, thatwe have parks today.

(08:35):
So if we don't continue thoseinvestments, then we won't
continue to have the sameresults.
We won't continue to benefitfrom the parks that we have
because they have to bemaintained and they have to be
funded.
And so if we can start that ormaybe I should say continue that
conversation.
I feel like a lot of peoplearen't, they just simply aren't

(08:57):
aware of the investments thatare required for parks to
continue to thrive and beavailable to all of us.

SPEAKER_01 (09:05):
Yeah, that's so true.
And I think also I love readinga lot about the medical benefits
or the environmental benefitsbecause it's keeping the shore
from eroding or whatever.
They're so much more valuablethan just a place to

SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
recreate.
I think that's right.
And if we love the out And wehave to be willing to pay it
forward and protect

SPEAKER_01 (09:36):
them.
explore something that I hadnever explored.
What kind of different places doyou like to introduce people to?

SPEAKER_00 (10:00):
Well, really, my favorite thing to do is to
introduce people to things thatthey didn't know existed here.
So we touched on that a littlebit, but I would be willing to
bet that a lot of your listenersdon't even realize that we have
caving in Virginia or we haveice climbing or we have elk
tours.
And so I try to introduce peopleto those different things,
things like foraging for wildedible plants, birding, for

(10:23):
example.
So these are all different waysto experience and enjoy the
outdoors.
And so that's really my favoritething to do is is to open
people's eyes to what they haveavailable here and to do it all
from a beginner friendlyperspective when people hear ice
climbing they're like i'm notgonna ice climb but almost
anybody can really it's mucheasier than you would probably

(10:46):
think and if you've got a guidewho knows how to do it safely
and can teach you to do it withall the correct gear it's a
great outing for a day it's alot of fun so all of the
episodes that i have are verybeginner friendly with the idea
in mind that many people havenever tried it before.

SPEAKER_01 (11:02):
How many times or how often do you do an episode
and it's the first time you'vedone it?

SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
Many.
Really?
The ice climbing one, for sure.
The caving one, for sure.
Foraging for wild edible plants.
Yeah, really like a lot of thesethings I had never tried.
Even mountain biking.
I did an episode on that acouple seasons ago.
And I always get together withthe guest that's on that episode
even before we record.
Because I need to experiencethese things to be able to talk

(11:32):
about it and have a conversationwith my guest.
And a lot of times it's thefirst time I've ever done that.
So I have another caving episodecoming up here really shortly
with some rangers from Virginiastate parks, because believe it
or not, some of our state parkshave caves and there are public
caving tours available throughthe park.
That's something a lot of peopledon't know about.

(11:53):
So I did a wild caving tour awhile ago for an episode about
caving in general, but I've gotone coming up.
about these programs throughstate parks, which is an
excellent opportunity forsomebody who has no idea how to
try caving, but want to do it ina safe way.
A ranger-led program is aperfect way to do that.

SPEAKER_01 (12:14):
Oh, I totally agree.
And the other thing that Inoticed from your socials, you
do a lot, is you do meetups andgroup hikes and invite people to
come out.

SPEAKER_00 (12:22):
Yeah, well, usually I'm joining up with somebody
else's group hike, like taggingalong and then letting people
know that I'm going to be thereso that they can join if they
want.
I don't host my own hikesusually.
And I'll be honest with you,Missy, that's just an insurance
thing.
I'm not going to purchase anumbrella policy to take people
on a hike.
But I do like to get togetherwith people and to see people in

(12:45):
person.
And so I do my best to let folksknow where I'm going to be and
encourage people to come out.
That's neat.

SPEAKER_01 (12:51):
Okay, so these activities that you've done,
what have you been introduced tothat you're now a huge fan of?

SPEAKER_00 (12:58):
What am I not a huge fan of?
I mean, there really isn't Yeah,there really isn't anything that
I haven't enjoyed.
There hasn't been a singlething.
I even went surfing, was it twoseasons ago?
And that I was kind of like, oh,I don't know about this.
It was much harder than Ithought it was going to be.
I don't think I ever even madeit up on the board, but I ended
up with a boogie board and wasjust riding the waves.

(13:19):
I felt like a child, like, youknow, when you're sitting on the
beach and there's some littlekid on a boogie board and they
are just having the time oftheir life.
That was me for the first time,probably since I was as a child.
And it took somebody to say,it's okay for you to do this.
Who cares who's watching?
And it doesn't matter whatanybody else thinks.
This is fun and just letyourself go.

(13:41):
And so I did.
And it was an absolute blast.
The problem with that though, isthat I end up with way too many
new hobbies.
I'm like, when am I going tofind time to do all of these
things?
And my poor husband's like, weneed a bigger house for all of
this gear.
Exactly.
I'm like, I need a rooftop tentand I need a kayak and a

(14:02):
paddleboard and all thesethings.
And I guess that circles back toyou have to be careful.
You don't go down that rabbithole, but yeah, I have picked up
a lot of new hobbies in additionto a lot of new friends.
There's so much to do.
It's just, it's a lot of fun andit gets me even more excited to
share it.

SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
I love to hear that you have to give yourself
sometimes the little pep talk,because I do think that
sometimes going out and tryingsomething new.
We talk about outdooractivities, but I think this is
across the board.
can be intimidating and thatfear or whatever it is could
prevent you from tryingsomething.
And so I think it's so importantfor people to hear that you do
all these amazing things and yousometimes need the little pep

(14:41):
talk.

SPEAKER_00 (14:42):
Oh, yes.
In fact, I quite often havepeople say to me, you're so
brave.
I admire everything you're doingbecause you're so brave.
And I'm thinking, who are theytalking to?
I'm looking around going, what?
Who?
Is there someone standing behindme?
I mean, really, I don't feellike I am an at all.
But I think what the outdoorshas given me, and this is on a

(15:03):
very personal level, is anability to challenge myself in a
way that nothing else has.
And by that, I don't mean beingstupid or being reckless.
But if there's something that Iwould like to try that I'm
nervous about or I'm intimidatedby, if I can get myself through
it, I come out on the other endgoing, man, I'm such a badass.

(15:23):
I ride that wave for a longtime.
And it could be something assimple as solo backpacking for a
night night or two, or maybesolo camping in a new place.
Anything like that can feelintimidating.
And even as a child, I wasterrified of the woods at night.
And there's still a little bitof that hanging on even at my
age.

(15:43):
And so I know that there'snothing out there that can get
me except maybe another person.
So if I'm smart about it, then Ishould be able to enjoy these
activities safely.
I do tend to push myselfoccasionally and take on
challenges that I never thoughtI could do, but it's so
rewarding.
when I've done it and then Ithink, okay, what's the next
thing?
I love that.

(16:04):
When you

SPEAKER_01 (16:04):
host these conversations, what do you hope
people take away from it?

SPEAKER_00 (16:09):
I hope they have the information and the inspiration
they need to plan their ownadventure in Virginia.
I hope that people can feel likethey have the tools that they
need.
I hope that the questions andthe lingering doubts have been
answered.
And I hope they feel that theycan reach out if they do have
additional questions or If I canput them in touch with the right

(16:32):
people to help them plan a tripor to get started in an activity
that they're curious about andmake that connection with the
outdoors.
And I think I've done my jobbecause ultimately I really want
for people to connect with theoutdoors.
There are so many reasons thatwe need to preserve our public

(16:53):
lands and our outdoor spaces andadults who are not motivated or
connected to the outdoors.
outdoors are simply not going tobe motivated to protect it.
And so we have to get peoplestarted as young as possible,
frankly.
And even if that means gettingpeople engaged as adults, so be
it.
Let's get them engaged and let'sget them connecting to the

(17:16):
outdoors so that when it's timeto advocate for them, we've got
a whole army that's ready to goto protect our outdoor lands.

SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
Beautifully said.
Okay, let's talk about planninga trip to or planning a visitor
for these activities.
If someone is just starting toexplore outdoor activities, what
would you recommend that they doin order to learn and to get
more comfortable to start thishobby?

SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
So first of all, I would say they need to find a
trustworthy source, whether thatbe a parks website or your
podcast, Missy, because you haveI'm really impressed.
One of the one of the reasons Ireally love your podcast so much
is because you really do yourhomework and you talk to people
who are trustworthy sources.

(18:01):
In this day and age, there'sjust too many social media quote
unquote influencers who are outthere trying to make money off
of posting content about theoutdoors when they really don't
know what they're doing.
And there's a lot ofmisinformation that goes out
there and people end up gettinghurt or also they attract a lot
of people to places that cannotaccommodate huge crowds that are

(18:25):
going to be damaged, maybe evenpermanently damaged or have
other other problems arise outof too many visitors in too
small or delicate of a space.
So find a trustworthy, reliableresource that'll give you the
information that you need.
That's the first thing.
And the second thing is to findyour community.
Again, I think that findinglike-minded people that are at

(18:47):
the same level that you are,whether that's beginner, intro,
intermediate, advanced, makes areally big difference.
Because if you're thinking you'dlike to go for a hike and then
that morning you wake up andyou're like, you know what?
I don't know if I want to dothis anymore.
Now I'm having doubts or itlooks like it might rain or
whatever, or I just don't feellike it today.
If you've got somebody waitingfor you with the trailhead, that

(19:09):
sometimes makes the difference.
And then once you get out thereand you've done it, then you're
like, oh, this is fantastic.
I can do it again.
But if you miss thatopportunity, it may not happen
again.
So I would definitely recommendfinding a buddy, an adventure
buddy, or a great community thatcan support you.
I

SPEAKER_01 (19:25):
just want to go back because I think the point you
made I'd never thought of is thetrusted resource I can vouch
that you do respond when peoplehave questions because that's
how we met is I started sendingyou direct messages and I think
one of the things I did is Iwould go oh okay wait Jessica
follows this person I trustJessica and if Jessica follows

(19:47):
this person therefore I trustthis person and I think it just
really helped to build theonline community that I trust
and where I got informationversus to your point just
searching for a hashtag andassuming that that everybody
that's talking about ShenandoahNational Park knows Shenandoah
National Park.

SPEAKER_00 (20:04):
Right.
That's exactly right.
And then the other thing, thethird thing I just thought of as
you were talking, you mentionedgear and gear sometimes being an
obstacle for people trying newactivities.
And that is absolutely true.
I would also say that there arereally great local outfitters
all across Virginia that canhelp you find the gear that you

(20:24):
need.
And many of them carryconsignment gear.
And that is such a greatopportunity opportunity one
because you can get the gear ata much lower cost than full
price but also you're reallydoing your part to make sure
that gear doesn't end up in alandfill and you're not buying
into the whole consumerismaround outdoor recreation and
the outdoor industry it's kindof a catch-22 with the outdoor

(20:47):
rec industry because we want toget people outside and we want
them to have the gear that theyneed but also a lot of these
brands are just producing andproducing and producing and
they're constantly changingtheir colors and their styles,
even though it's really the samething all the time.
So consignment is a really greatway to try something out and to

(21:08):
be able to afford what you'relooking for.
Another really greatopportunity, in case anybody
doesn't know this here inVirginia, is there are
educational programs that willallow you to try out something
new.
Like, for example, VirginiaState Parks has this program
called Let's Go Adventures, andyou can learn to fly fish or do
archery or orienteering orkayaking or hiking or camping,

(21:30):
and even now backpacking.
And they bring all the gear toyou.
So if you're thinking like,gosh, fly fishing looks like
something I would be interestedin, but you're not going to go
out and spend hundreds ofdollars on a fly reel and a
tackle box and all thosedifferent things just to find
out you don't like it.
So you can sign up for one ofthose programs and learn how to
fly fish and then decide, do youwant to invest in the gear?

(21:52):
So I would recommend that aswell.
Yeah, it's

SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
brilliant.
You and I are both a big fan ofVirginia State Parks, and they
do so much.
with their ranger programs andwith their education programs to
help introduce people at alllevels to activities and
initiatives within the parks.

SPEAKER_00 (22:08):
Yes, they are fantastic at that.

SPEAKER_01 (22:09):
Okay, how do you go about planning a visit?
Like if you say it's a Wednesdayand you're like, I'm going to go
do this activity this weekend,how do you go about planning?
So

SPEAKER_00 (22:20):
I think one of

SPEAKER_01 (22:20):
the

SPEAKER_00 (22:21):
things that is really helpful is having the
tools that you need already atyour disposal so that if it's
Wednesday morning, morning andyou wake up and it's 75 degrees
and the birds are singing andyou think, I'm just going to
call in sick today and gosomewhere.
You don't have to get hung up onthings like, what do I need?
Where am I going?

(22:41):
How do I find them?
How do I download a map?
Because now I, you know, I can'tfind the maps.
It's really helpful if you haveall those things at your
fingertips so that you candecide at the last minute you
want to go and do something.
So for example, like forVirginia State Parks, if there
are parks that are near you, goahead and download the Venza app
and download the maps for eachof the individual parks that are

(23:03):
say within a two hour drive ofyour house so that you will
always have those available atyour fingertips the moment you
decide you want to go like haveyour pack ready with the 10
essentials packed inside and awater bottle and whatever else
you think you might need extraclothing of course so that all
you have to do is grab it and goeliminate all of the mess that

(23:25):
has to happen the planning thathas to happen to be able to do
that.
Do it ahead of time and be readyto go.
But as far as like just thinkingthrough what you absolutely need
to do, think through what has tobe with you.
And of course, that is the 10essentials.
Don't forget how much water youneed to have.
Don't underestimate that or howmuch food you need to have and

(23:46):
never, ever underestimate theweather because that can change
at a moment's notice.
So making sure you have the 10essentials, the gear, the food
and the water and then maps andall of these things are part of
the 10 essentials anyway.
But having your maps preparedahead of time or knowing where
you can get one quickly, whetherthat's the visitor center or
perhaps it's on the sign at thetrailhead.

(24:06):
Have a couple of apps on yourphone that have GPS trackers as
a backup, not as a replacementfor a paper map, but as a backup
so that you can actually seewhere you are on the map as
you're moving throughout thetrail.
Make sure your phone is alwayscharged.
Make sure somebody knows thatyou're going and when you're
supposed to be back and what theplan is in case you don't

(24:29):
comeback.
Like your at home buddy shouldpreferably be one or two of the
same people that you notify allthe time so that you don't have
to explain to somebody, hey, I'mgoing hiking today and here's
what I'm going to need you to doin case something happens so
that they know the plan.
So those are some of the thingsthat I would recommend doing
ahead of time.
And once you do that, when thedecision comes, I want to go do

(24:51):
something, then you'veeliminated obstacles to keep you
from doing it.
And it's much more fun.
You're not going to waste thefirst two hours of your decision
just preparing to go out.

SPEAKER_01 (24:59):
And we'll put a link to the Avenza app in the 10
Essentials list on the ParksPodcast website on this episode
page for everybody so they haveeasy access to it.
I think it's a great idea.
And I also really love the ideaof whoever you tell, make sure
they know what to do.
Because if you tell someone whodoesn't know how to call the
ranger station or whatever thecase may be, then that's not

(25:20):
going to be very helpful.
So I really liked that idea.

SPEAKER_00 (25:22):
Yes.
And I'm just going to add toothat that plan could change
depending on where you're going.
I would recommend folks, so Ijust literally released this
week an episode about wildernesssurvival skills.
And the guest there is TimMcWelch, who owns a business
called Advanced SurvivalTraining, where he teaches
people these things.
But we had this conversationabout how if somebody does get
lost, you do not want to call911 or the local police or the

(25:46):
local sheriff because then it'sconsidered a missing persons.
And most missing people arenever actually missing.
They've run away or they've leftand haven't told somebody and
then they usually end up comingback.
So nothing happens in the first48 hours of a report like that.
Instead, you want to make surethat you're calling the park or
the ranger where that person ishiking so that and to say that

(26:08):
that person is lost or hasn'tcome back and then they can
activate search and rescue tocome look for you.
So you have to be smart aboutwho you notify if you don't come
back.
Whoever is watching out for youneeds to know that information.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (26:23):
it's such a good point.
I can't wait to listen to thatepisode.
So we've talked a lot about theequipment and kind of the stigma
around equipment, but there's acouple other sort of stigmas of
outdoors that I've heard.
And I thought you would be theperfect person to talk about
them with.
The equipment is the number one.
I don't know what I need.
It's too expensive, whatever.
And we've talked about that.
The other is fear, fear ofoutdoor creatures, fear of

(26:47):
getting hurt.
And I think legitimate and youcan, you can manage those, those

SPEAKER_00 (26:56):
stigmas for sure.
Yes, definitely for sure.
For sure.
The more informed you are, theless likely you will be to be
concerned about some of thesethings because most of the
stigmas around things that youreally don't need to be
concerned about, things likebears and snakes and spiders,
stuff like that, there's a lotof fear around animals and there

(27:17):
just doesn't need to be.
I mean, black bears here inVirginia, unless you attack them
or provoke them, they're usuallymore afraid of you and they're
either going to keep doing whatthey're doing and ignore you or
they're going to leave.
So as long as you keep yourdistance and you don't entice
them by having food at your campor something to that effect.
And snakes, I did this reallyawesome episode about venomous

(27:38):
and non-venomous snakes inVirginia.
And the guest on that episodehad so much energy.
I highly encourage people tolisten because she loves snakes.
But she talked about how we onlyhave a few species of venomous
snakes here in Virginia.
And even venomous snakes, anysnakes at all, they're not
interested in you and they'renot going to chase you.

(27:58):
you and they're not going toattack you and all of that so if
you come across a snake all youreally need to do is just step
around it and avoid it and andkeep your distance the things
that you do need to be concernedabout are ticks the littlest
thing that nobody ever thinksabout is the thing that could
actually do the most damage soticks and i have a great episode
about ticks and tick-bornediseases and then the weather is

(28:22):
a big one because the weathercan change and a lot of people
especially newbies don't realizethat mountains can make their
own weather I think the majorityof the jackets and sweatshirts
that I own in my closet that sayShenandoah National Park came
from the gift shop when I showedup in the park because it was 90
degrees in July at my house whenI left.
And then I got up there and itwas like 65 degrees and windy

(28:44):
and looked like it was going torain.
And I was unprepared, right?
So you live and learn, but learnfrom my mistakes and try not to
make your own.
Just always have all of thelayers, all of your rain gear
with you because because youjust never know.
Something can come out ofnowhere and it often does.
I was hiking once in ShenandoahNational Park and a thunderstorm

(29:06):
rolled in and oh my gosh, I havenever been stuck in a storm like
that.
It was so insane.
I was standing on a ridge topand I actually saw it coming.
The skies around me werecompletely blue, but this one
massive cloud just kept gettingbigger and bigger and it was
rolling my way.
And so I was like hauling buttback towards the car and it came

(29:27):
over me so fast And the way thelightning was coming down, I was
like, I don't know if I'm goingto make it, but I was less than
a mile from the car.
So I just kept pushing andpushing until I made it back in
my car.
And when I got in, I took thisvideo of like this torrential
downpour.
The video is just like thiscrazy loud noise of all of the
lightning and the thunder andthe rain coming down.

(29:48):
And I was like, oh my gosh, if Iwere a through hiker, I would
have been terrified, likeabsolutely terrified.

SPEAKER_01 (29:55):
As you're telling it, I have a little bit of fear
of of putting myself in thatposition.
And then a little bit of awebecause it must have been really
stunning to watch.

SPEAKER_00 (30:06):
Yes, yes, yes.
Because you have that momentwhere you're like, wow, that's
so cool.
And then when it hits you,you're like, this isn't cool
anymore.
Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 (30:15):
And it's so funny because so many people, when I
pack to go, I'll just do a daytrip to Shenandoah most of the
time.
And I'll pack and people arelike, how long are you staying?
And kind of criticizing how muchI pack.
But if you have your vehicle, goahead and put all the gear you
need in it And that way, whenyou get there, you can just sort
through and figure out whatworks for that situation.

SPEAKER_00 (30:32):
Yes.
I think if you have the abilityto just have it with you all the
time, that's a great plan.
And then the last thing I wouldsay about fear is fear of other
people.
And this one I think is alsovery real and it sometimes gets
brushed aside.
Like I've listened to otherpodcasts talk about threats to
people in the outdoors andthey're like, and we're not
going to talk about peoplebecause that's not really a

(30:55):
thing.
I'm like, oh, but it is, it isreally a thing.
And this is not to scare anybodybut there are so many stories
out there of people who havecome in contact with other
people who meant to do them harmand so you just have to be very
mindful and it's a very personaldecision how you handle that so
like I can't say to you this isthe right way to handle that
situation for me personally mypreference is to choose trails

(31:18):
where there aren't other peopleand off that kind of goes
against some of the more commonadvice that I often hear like I
will hear people say you shouldstick to busier trails like the
Appalachian trail becausethere's always somebody that's
going to be coming by.
Well, I hike the AppalachianTrail at all times of the year.
And unless it's July inVirginia, where there's a
through hiker coming by everyfew minutes, it's not true that

(31:38):
there's somebody coming by on aregular basis.
And because the AT is sopopulated, unfortunately, for
somebody who's looking to targeta person, that's a good place
for them to go.
Because they know somebody couldbe walking by by themselves at
any moment in the forest.
And those stories exist, likethose things have happened.
So for me, I choose trails whereI think I'm not going to see

(32:01):
anybody.
So you really have to make yourown decisions on that.
Maybe doing a little bit ofresearch, asking other people in
the area what their experiencehas been on those trails.
And then of course, having abuddy with you is always going
to be the safest.

SPEAKER_01 (32:15):
And I think all of these stigmas and fears, you can
overcome them.
And it's not about, to yourpoint, scaring people from doing
it.
It's about just being aware.
And for me, it's a gut feeling.
If it doesn't feel right and yousee a bear ahead, then remove
yourself from that situation.
If it doesn't feel right whensomeone's approaching you to
talk, then remove yourself fromthat situation.

(32:38):
Yes.
Don't make it prevent you fromgoing out.
Absolutely.
Exploring.

SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
Yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 (32:44):
Jessica, at the end of every episode, we do a speed
round of questions.
Just answer with the first thingthat comes to mind.
Okay.
Okay.
What is your earliest parkmemory?
I

SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
grew up in Cleveland and there's a large metro park
there And there's a particulararea called Squire's Castle.
And if I remember the storycorrectly, there was a man who
was building what looked like anactual stone castle before this
was a park for his wife.
And maybe his wife died or leftor something happened and it
never was completed.
But there is still thefoundation and the walls of this

(33:18):
huge stone home that was meantto be at some point a home.
And it's now a park.
And my grandparents used to takeme and my brother and sister
there.
as a child.
And the castle part of it wasespecially cool, a little bit
creepy, a little fairy tale-ish,but that part was really cool.
And then I can remember mygrandmother picking mushrooms

(33:41):
and showing us different thingsthat she had found and just
picnicking there and having veryslow, peaceful afternoons of
picking dandelions and just likeplaying tag with my brother and
sister and different things likethat.
And that is definitely one of myearliest park memories.
I want to go back there one ofthese days.
Next time I'm home visiting, Itold myself I need to check it

(34:02):
out because it's been so manyyears since I've been there.
I wonder if it looks the same.
But I think it's those earlymemories that help us make those
connections to parks and tocontinue to love them as adults.
And what made you love theparks?
It's connection.
It's all about memories andconnection and that feeling that
you get when you're enjoyingparks.

(34:24):
And you can always bring thatfeeling back, whether it's days,
weeks, months or years afteryou've had that experience, or
at least for me personally, if Ican just close my eyes and think
about it, I can think back to 30years ago or even longer than
that.
I don't want to give away myage, Missy, but thinking back to
all those decades ago and whatthat was like and what those

(34:46):
afternoons were like, it justbrings back a lot of joy and I
can remember joy and love andall of those things and time
with my grandparents that I, ofcourse, don't have anymore.
And, you know, I wish thateverybody could have those types
of experiences in the outdoorswhat is

SPEAKER_01 (35:02):
your favorite thing about the parks

SPEAKER_00 (35:05):
that they're so accessible to everyone
especially here in virginia ithink we're really blessed to
have parks within an hour'sdrive of our home no matter
where we live in virginia andwhat is your favorite thing to
do at a park gosh It's funnybecause my brain immediately
goes to, well, is it hiking oris it kayaking or is it birding?

(35:27):
But actually what it really is,is the ability to do any and all
of those things at my own pace.
And sometimes I'll just be at apark and I'll be moseying on
down the trail.
And I don't know if it's becauseI'm daydreaming or something
catches my attention, but I'llstop.
And I find myself not moving fora really long time.
I'll be listening, likelistening for the birds,

(35:50):
listening for any wildlifeSometimes just enjoying the
sound, whether it's like astream bubbling or waves
lapping, feeling the breeze onmy skin or smelling like the
different scents that are in theair, whether it be wildflowers
or even just decaying leaves orwet soil.
All of those things are so, it'ssuch a sensory experience.

(36:12):
And maybe 20 minutes later Isnap out of it.
I'm like, how long have I beenstanding here?
And so I think really what Ilove most about it is just the
ability to do that, to be soengrossed in the experience,
regardless of what I'm doing,whether it's hiking or birding
or kayaking or somethingentirely different, I can do it
at my own pace and really getthe most benefit out of it.

SPEAKER_01 (36:34):
What park have you yet to visit, but it's on your
bucket list and why?
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
goodness.
I would have to, I mean, I wouldhave to say something outside of
Virginia.
I don't know if there's a parkin Virginia that I haven't been
to yet.
So during the pandemic, I wassupposed to visit Banff National
Park in Canada and because ofthe pandemic the borders were
closed and I never got backthere every summer there was a
different reason why I couldn'tget back so I think I would love

(37:02):
to go not just to Banff butthere's a neighboring park I
think it's Jasper which is muchsmaller but it's literally right
next door and so it's not aswell known as Banff and doesn't
get the same amount of attentionso I actually think that's a
little bit higher on my listbecause it's the same type of
experience but with less peopleAnd I'm very mindful of

(37:25):
visitation, especially in myposition, not only getting to go
to a lot of different parks, butgetting to know and meet the
rangers and the conservationofficers and the wildlife
biologists and the other peoplewho maintain our public lands
and learning from them about theimpact of all this visitation.
So I'm very mindful now aboutgoing to places that are already

(37:47):
highly visited.
And Banff is very highly visitedbecause it's such a beautiful
place.
So I think I would probably goto Jasper.

SPEAKER_01 (37:53):
What are three must-haves you pack for a park
visit?

SPEAKER_00 (37:57):
Well, the 10 essentials are on the top of the
list, so that's 10 things, andthen I always have a camera, and
I know that's gotten to be alittle old-fashioned these days
with everybody having cameras ontheir cell phones, but our cell
phone cameras don't capture thesame type of images, and for me,
photography is a hobby, and it'sone other way that I can engage
in the outdoors and sort ofengage my creative side, so I I

(38:22):
always have a camera with me.
And then especially now as we'regetting into the warmer months,
I am putting my head net backinto my bag.
And that was the best$10 I'veever spent in my life.
To have a head net that protectsyou from the bugs when you're
hiking is a must.
I think especially here where wehave a lot of humidity and the
bugs like to swarm around yourhead and fly into your eyes and

(38:43):
your nose and your ears, thatcan ruin the experience pretty
quickly.
So a head net for sure.
What

SPEAKER_01 (38:49):
is your favorite campfire activity?

SPEAKER_00 (38:52):
hammocking i have a hammock with me all the time
when you talked about havingthings in your car that you can
just grab easily a hammock is inmy car at all times and i
usually throw it in my pack andhave it at camp with me too so i
can string a hammock up almostanywhere pretty quickly and when
you're in the parks

SPEAKER_01 (39:10):
are you tent camper or cabin

SPEAKER_00 (39:12):
if i owned a camper that would be definitely part of
it and i hope to one day i didas a child my family owned a
camper as a child so i have somereally great memories of camping
in a camper, but I don't haveone now.
So between tents and cabins,gosh, how do you pick one?
Like they're two completelydifferent experiences and
they're both amazing, especiallybecause we have so many great

(39:34):
cabins and campgrounds here inVirginia.
I think it's a tie, Missy.
Are you hiking with or withouttrekking poles?
Definitely with.
I was a without for way too manyyears of my life.
And then someone gifted metrekking poles.
And then I was like, how have Imade it this far in my life
without these?
What is your favorite So I loveto dehydrate foods.

(39:56):
I have a dehydrator at home.
And so I'll slice oranges andapples and other veggies and
fruits and put them in thedehydrator.
And then I have healthy snacksready to go all the time.

SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
What is your favorite animal sighting?

SPEAKER_00 (40:11):
Oh, gosh.
I'm so torn between all of thedifferent birds and then snakes.
It's so hard.
hard to choose.
So I'm a birder and every nowand then you get a bird that
doesn't belong in the area thatshows up and nobody knows why

(40:31):
it's here or how it got here,but everybody is like really
mystified and, and just excitedabout it.
And so a really great birdsighting, whether you expect to
see it or not is such a joy, butalso so are snakes.
Like I've gotten really intotracking or I get, well,
tracking, is that the rightword?
Logging my snake sightings thesame way that I do my bird

(40:53):
sightings.
And I used to be one of thosepeople who was terrified of
snakes.
So I get it if somebody'sthinking snakes, oh my gosh,
like no way I'd run the otherway.
Once I've learned to appreciatethem and realize that there's
nothing to be fearful of, now Ijust really get excited when I
see one.
And there's so many differentspecies of snakes all around
Virginia that I keep track ofthem in my guidebook.

(41:14):
And that has really added to thefun too because you just never
know when you're going to runinto one.

SPEAKER_01 (41:18):
What is your favorite sound in a park?

SPEAKER_00 (41:21):
I'm going to go with birds again because I have
learned over the years that justthe sound of birds is enough to
calm me down.
Like when I need a break in themiddle of the day, if I step
outside and I hear the birdssinging, my mood lifts
immediately.
So I'm going to stick withbirds.
And what is the greatest giftthat the parks give to us?

(41:43):
Well, I think...
I think if we look back at whereparks originated from, and they
originated out of the 1930s NewDeal era, and this idea that the
common man, the common workingman, and I put that in quotes
because that was the thinking atthe time, needed a place to

(42:06):
recreate and needed a place totake their families.
And this idea was very much justan idea until one or two parks
parks opened and then theyrealized just how much these
public lands were needed for ourmental health and our physical
health.
And now also because ofconservation reasons.

(42:27):
And so when I think about whatthose people with those visions
gave us, I'm really, reallygrateful.
And those parks are now here forus to benefit from, hopefully,
if we take care of them for avery, very long time.
So I think the gift that thatthose people gave us and the
gifts that the park gives us areone in the same.

SPEAKER_01 (42:51):
Jessica, I am so grateful to you for being on the
episode.
And I'm particularly personallygrateful because you really have
helped guide me on how to enjoyVirginia in a different way.
And I'm excited that we'reintroducing you and your podcast
to so many other people becauseI think you are a gift and what
you're giving is such a gift toall of us.

SPEAKER_00 (43:13):
Thank you, Missy.
And I think, honestly, you'redoing doing the same.
I love the work that you'redoing.
And I've been so impressed sincethe beginning.
And I think that's why you and Iconnected the way we did because
I think that we think along thesame lines of sharing
information for other people sothat everybody can enjoy these
beautiful places.
So I appreciate you having meon.

SPEAKER_01 (43:31):
Yeah, thank you so much.
And thanks for listening totoday's episode.
Until next time, we'll see youin the parks.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please be sure to like and share
on your favorite podcast Musicfor The Parks Podcast is
performed and produced by PorterHardy.
For more information, pleasefollow us on Instagram at The

(43:54):
Parks Podcast or visit ourwebsite at theparkspodcast.com.