October 2, 2025 • 13 mins
When the US Government shut down on October 1, 2025, questions and concerns about the status of our parks immediately became breaking news and trending topics. John Goodwin, a retired NPS Ranger and Author of "Echoes of the Badge: Stories from a National Park Service Career" joins me to share how to recreate responsibly during these challenging times.
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Episode Transcript
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Missy (00:01):
When the US government shut down on October 1st, 2025,
questions and concerns about thestatus of our parks immediately
became breaking news andtrending topics.
In this episode, we aim to sharehow to recreate responsibly
during these challenging times.
I'm your host, Missy Rentz, andthis is the Parks podcast.
Missy Rentz (00:25):
I am joined by John Goodwin.
You guys know him'cause he'sbeen on episodes before.
But John is a retired nationalpark service ranger and author
of Echoes of the Badge Storiesfrom a National Park Service
career John, welcome to theParks podcast again.
John Goodwin (00:40):
Thank you, Misty.
Thanks for having me.
Appreciate it.
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (00:43):
I feel like I always come to you when I just
don't know how to interpretwhat's going on with the parks.
And this is no exception.
As of midnight on October 1st,the United States Federal
government shut down due to alack of agreement on how to fund
the government.
And it can get really confusing.
I feel mixed messages, my socialfeed is all over the place, and
(01:03):
it does mean different thingsfor different parts of the
government.
But for our purpose, what doesit mean for our National Park
service units and the publiclands?
John Goodwin (01:14):
So things have changed over the years, from
when I first started as a rangerback when we had prior
shutdowns, it would mean closingthe parks and the public.
They were not happy with that.
Probably some of your listenersremember especially Washington,
DC and, all these places areclosed and Republican and
Democrats would use thisopportunity not only to
(01:34):
grandstand and say how much theylove the parks and everything
like that, but, keep it close atall costs.
And then it changed.
And so we're, now it's.
They're open for the most part.
Now, when I say open yourlisteners should be aware when
they go to a national park unitand there's 433 park units
across the country, not just thebig ones that people always
(01:54):
think about the national parkslike Sequoia, Yosemite,
Yellowstone, there's a lot ofsmaller ones and they'll
probably see, especially at thesmaller ones, closed visitor
centers.
In some cases, closedcampgrounds.
For other public lands you maysee like National Forest, which
is Department of Agriculture.
You may see campgrounds closed.
We're getting into the fall and,campgrounds can be closing
(02:17):
anyway, for the winter.
So you may see some managersclosing those campgrounds early.
So what I would recommend isplease call ahead, go on the
website.
Just know that your visit'sgonna be different with the
budget shutdown.
You're gonna see some parks,there's some states like
Colorado where the governor's,stepping in and giving state
(02:40):
money to the National Park unitsto keep those parks going.
In other cases there's visitorfee money that the parks can use
to pay for employees.
They're gonna be essentialemployees out there the law
enforcement, the firefightersand like that.
But anyone working inmaintenance.
That's a different story.
You don't have anyone cleaningup the restrooms or, or any of
(03:01):
that stuff.
And interpreter rangers openingup the visitor centers or people
at the entrance stations.
Those positions may not bestaffed with that money.
It's only gonna be essentialstuff.
You're gonna find things closedand you're gonna find trash
cans, overflowing, dirtyrestrooms.
You may find if you go backcountry hiking backpacking you
have an emergency, there may notbe anyone available immediately
(03:24):
available to come get you.
Be aware of that.
Missy Rentz (03:27):
So when we talk about national parks, you hit on
this, but I wanna go into it alittle deeper.
There are the 63 national parks,the big guys, but there's also
several hundred of the other.
What are those designations?
John Goodwin (03:40):
There's 433 national Park units that are out
there.
I had mentioned that previously,and that would include your
national battlefields, yourNational Lake sos, your National
Wild and Scenic Rivers, yournational monuments.
There the list is quiteextensive.
If I remember right, there's a.
Roll over 20 designations ofdifferent sites.
(04:00):
And sometimes it's surprisingeven at say Golden Gate National
Recreation Area where I ended mycareer.
A lot of people say that wouldcome visit Ocean Beach or Sutra
Park or whatever.
They would be surprised theywere in a national park unit and
to see a ranger there.
We're scattered all across thecountry in the territories as
well.
Missy Rentz (04:18):
So in my social feed, I see a lot of pleading to
close the parks.
Why is there an effort to getthe Department of Interior to
close the parks?
John Goodwin (04:30):
Because of what happened last time at, what was
the last shutdown?
2019?
It was a disaster.
So you look at an overflowingtrash can and you're like, eh,
not a big deal.
When the shutdowns over, theycan come and just bag up the
trash.
They're forgetting the crows,the ravens, the squirrels, the
bears.
They're gonna rip that trash andspread it everywhere, and
especially when you're dealingwith say, bears, right?
(04:52):
Somebody Yellowstone type ofissue.
Fed bear is a dead bear.
So you know, you open up theparks, you have all the visitors
come, and they're not doing whatthey should in situations like
this and pack their trash out,right?
So you're gonna have trashflowing everywhere.
You're gonna have restrooms thatare gonna be a mess.
You're gonna have lessprotection.
Rangers that are out thereguarding, say the say the Anazi
(05:16):
sites, right?
People are gonna look at this asan opportunity without rangers
out there to go and steal.
And that was an issue from thelast shutdown.
That's why a lot of people aresaying, close the parks.
Please safeguard the parks.
Missy Rentz (05:30):
Yeah, I, you read the stories of the devastation,
just, not just like trash andmessiness, but the vandalism and
the ecological devastationbecause people went off trails
and they just weren't recreatingresponsibly
John Goodwin (05:42):
absolutely.
Absolutely.
And in some cases like Imentioned the, the animals that
are gonna be affected by this ina negative manner.
But the archeological sites,when you got vandalism that,
even spray paint right?
Or whatever.
Good luck trying to clean thatup.
You pretty much just ruined anarea or doing off-road travel.
You might have just ripped up avery fragile area, with your
(06:02):
vehicle.
And I don't know, Missy, Ididn't, I do not know what.
Possesses people when there's norangers around.
And by rangers, interpretiverangers, maintenance, everyone
wearing the uniform, it justseems that when there's no
rangers around, people just actso irresponsibly.
Not everybody, but there's acertain portion of people that
(06:24):
do that.
And it just it drives us nuts.
As a ranger, I gotta tell you.
It's just like, why would you dothis?
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (06:31):
And you come from the National Park Service.
Are there implications that wewould have to be aware of for
the other public lands, theNational Forest, the Bureau of
Land Management, these otherplaces
John Goodwin (06:42):
Absolutely.
Oh sure.
Yeah.
The forest again.
You're gonna find less employeesworking there.
If any, and you're talking aboutalso this year, in the past nine
months, there's been devastatingcuts already to the workforce.
And then you look atnon-essential employees getting
furloughed right now as you'regonna find even less so National
Forest.
Absolutely.
You're.
Hopefully, knock on wood, you'renot gonna see the level of
(07:04):
devastation that say you wouldin years past.
I hope the public has learned bythat.
But yeah, national Forest, BLMyou name it, Missy.
I know any public land that'saffected by this this federal
budget shutdown down is gonnabe, it's gonna be negatively
affected.
Missy Rentz (07:18):
Yeah, I know I have Acadia on my list to visit
starting this weekend.
Should we visit our parks?
John Goodwin (07:26):
You know that is, I've, yeah, that that's probably
something that each of yourlisteners is gonna have to
decide for themselves.
Now, if you don't visit yournational park unit your public
land you won't be spending moneyprobably on the little towns
that border these public lands.
So you're gonna negativelyaffect their economy.
So that's something to think of.
(07:47):
If you do make the decision togo.
Please be responsible, it's notthat hard to follow the rules.
Follow the rules, even ifthere's not a ranger looking
over your shoulder.
Follow the rules.
Pack out what you bring in, notjust talking about back country
camping and anything like that.
Talking like front country camp,pack out your trash please.
If you see.
(08:07):
A trash can that's overflowing.
Don't try to stuff more trash inthere.
Help by packing it out.
Bring things to clean therestroom after yourself.
I'm not talking about going inand cleaning public restrooms
all by yourself.
I'm talking about cleaning upafter yourself.
Bring stuff with you.
It's not that hard of your carcamping.
So do that.
If you see a gate closed out ofpublic land because of the
(08:30):
budget shut down.
Don't go around the gate.
I saw that when I used to workduring the shutdowns, we would
close off portions of the park,and of course people would just
walk around them.
What about that gate saying, donot enter?
Did you not understand?
They're like, oh, we thought itmeant cars.
So if you see a gate, pleasedon't go past it.
If there's no ranger around.
Please don't, don't go in theback country and oh, it's open
(08:53):
season now.
I can camp wherever I want.
No, please don't.
Be responsible and just try todo the right thing.
You
Missy Rentz (09:00):
I like your point that, everybody has to make that
decision for themselves.
I'm currently thinking abouthitting state parks instead.
I think this is an opportunityto see what else is around.
There's a lot of local and stateparks that usually butt up
against national land.
That may be a good option foryou right now.
John Goodwin (09:20):
That is that's a great option.
Absolutely.
And I'll get off my soapbox in aminute but really what drives me
nuts with these budgetshutdowns, it's only during
these times do you see themcoming out and saying, we love
our public lands.
Keep'em open.
And that's both sides of thepolitical spectrum.
I wish that they would be outthere the rest of the year and
increasing and I'm talkingnational parks here but
(09:41):
increased the park budgets,please bring back our rangers,
bring back people, everyone whoworks, within the National Park
units fall 433 of them, pleaseincrease our budget.
Just don't pay attention whenthe parks are shut down.
And that's also for yourlisteners, national parks and
all.
The public lands are getting theattention right now.
Don't forget about them when theshutdown ends, contact your
(10:05):
local representatives.
Contact the White House, tellthem to increase the funding
because it's great to havevisitors.
But when you don't have staff,because your budgets are slashed
every single year it does no oneany good.
Don't forget about the parks.
Missy Rentz (10:22):
And I think we are at, while it's not a big
election year, we are inelection season.
And I think it's important foryou to voice your opinion
through your votes and, not justlisten, everybody's saying they
love the parks right now, butwhat are people's records and
how they do or don't support theparks.
And this is a good time to doit.
And to remind our governmentelected officials that the parks
(10:44):
and our public lands areimportant to us.
John Goodwin (10:46):
Absolutely.
Yep, I agree.
Agree completely.
Missy Rentz (10:49):
yeah, so John, we're on like day two, day three
of the shutdown.
So maybe we don't see a lot now,but the longer this goes, the
more we're gonna notice the lackof staffing at the parks.
And so we just need to beprepared.
John Goodwin (11:04):
Absolutely.
If I could just real, real quickstory.
I went back packing up Yosemitetried to do half dome and clouds
rest and didn't see a singleback country ranger.
This is before the shutdown andI, the ranger me came out and I
was having to.
Educate people as they'reheading up towards half dome
about the dangers of lightning,the dangers of of rain on the
(11:25):
granite, if they're going up thecable route or even go up to
clouds rest.
And that, like I said, that wasbefore the shutdown, be prepared
if you're gonna go to the publiclands.
There's less rangers now.
There's less staff now thanthere, there was before.
Now you'll find hardly any sincethe the past nine months it's
been decimated.
So please recreate responsibly.
(11:47):
Be safe.
Have fun if you go, but just,just try to remind the, your
listeners, please pack outeverything.
Be kind to the resource.
Missy Rentz (11:56):
Yeah.
Thank you John.
And I'd like to just put an openinvitation the longer this goes
on, if there's more questions,we regroup and put together
another episode just to keep thelisteners informed on how to
recreate.
John Goodwin (12:09):
Sounds good.
Missy Rentz (12:10):
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
I just also wanna mention thatthe second edition of John's
book, echoes of the BadgeStories from a National Park
Service career is now out andit's more stories right John?
John Goodwin (12:22):
Yes, a absolutely.
Yep.
I arrange the stories a littlebit more chronologically and
there are a few more stories inthere.
Even detailing what I've beendoing the past nine months just,
trying to do my part to fightfor the public lands.
But yeah I think your listenerswill definitely enjoy it.
It's not only on Amazon.
It's published through Ingramand through Lulu.
That just means you can go toindependent bookstores or you
(12:44):
can go to the, the big brandname ones like Barnes and Noble,
and you can order the book ifit's not already on the shelf.
Missy Rentz (12:50):
And you can listen to the episode we did with John
earlier this year that wasspecifically about the book.
So you'll hear more, but I justwanted to make sure I mentioned
that your second edition wasout.
John, I just wanna thank you forbeing part of this episode and
helping educate us on what'sgoing on with the parks and how
do we use them right now.
John Goodwin (13:08):
Missy, thanks for doing what you're doing.
I really appreciate it.
Missy Rentz (13:11):
Absolutely.
That's it for this episode.
Until next time, we'll see youin the parks.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please be sure to like and share
on your favorite podcastplatform.
Music for the parks podcast isperformed and produced by Porter
Hardy.
For more information, pleasefollow us on Instagram at the
(13:31):
parks podcast.
Or visit ourwebsite@theparkspodcast.com.
When the US government shut down on October 1st, 2025,
questions and concerns about thestatus of our parks immediately
became breaking news andtrending topics.
In this episode, we aim to sharehow to recreate responsibly
during these challenging times.
I'm your host, Missy Rentz, andthis is the Parks podcast.
Missy Rentz (00:25):
I am joined by John Goodwin.
You guys know him'cause he'sbeen on episodes before.
But John is a retired nationalpark service ranger and author
of Echoes of the Badge Storiesfrom a National Park Service
career John, welcome to theParks podcast again.
John Goodwin (00:40):
Thank you, Misty.
Thanks for having me.
Appreciate it.
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (00:43):
I feel like I always come to you when I just
don't know how to interpretwhat's going on with the parks.
And this is no exception.
As of midnight on October 1st,the United States Federal
government shut down due to alack of agreement on how to fund
the government.
And it can get really confusing.
I feel mixed messages, my socialfeed is all over the place, and
(01:03):
it does mean different thingsfor different parts of the
government.
But for our purpose, what doesit mean for our National Park
service units and the publiclands?
John Goodwin (01:14):
So things have changed over the years, from
when I first started as a rangerback when we had prior
shutdowns, it would mean closingthe parks and the public.
They were not happy with that.
Probably some of your listenersremember especially Washington,
DC and, all these places areclosed and Republican and
Democrats would use thisopportunity not only to
(01:34):
grandstand and say how much theylove the parks and everything
like that, but, keep it close atall costs.
And then it changed.
And so we're, now it's.
They're open for the most part.
Now, when I say open yourlisteners should be aware when
they go to a national park unitand there's 433 park units
across the country, not just thebig ones that people always
(01:54):
think about the national parkslike Sequoia, Yosemite,
Yellowstone, there's a lot ofsmaller ones and they'll
probably see, especially at thesmaller ones, closed visitor
centers.
In some cases, closedcampgrounds.
For other public lands you maysee like National Forest, which
is Department of Agriculture.
You may see campgrounds closed.
We're getting into the fall and,campgrounds can be closing
(02:17):
anyway, for the winter.
So you may see some managersclosing those campgrounds early.
So what I would recommend isplease call ahead, go on the
website.
Just know that your visit'sgonna be different with the
budget shutdown.
You're gonna see some parks,there's some states like
Colorado where the governor's,stepping in and giving state
(02:40):
money to the National Park unitsto keep those parks going.
In other cases there's visitorfee money that the parks can use
to pay for employees.
They're gonna be essentialemployees out there the law
enforcement, the firefightersand like that.
But anyone working inmaintenance.
That's a different story.
You don't have anyone cleaningup the restrooms or, or any of
(03:01):
that stuff.
And interpreter rangers openingup the visitor centers or people
at the entrance stations.
Those positions may not bestaffed with that money.
It's only gonna be essentialstuff.
You're gonna find things closedand you're gonna find trash
cans, overflowing, dirtyrestrooms.
You may find if you go backcountry hiking backpacking you
have an emergency, there may notbe anyone available immediately
(03:24):
available to come get you.
Be aware of that.
Missy Rentz (03:27):
So when we talk about national parks, you hit on
this, but I wanna go into it alittle deeper.
There are the 63 national parks,the big guys, but there's also
several hundred of the other.
What are those designations?
John Goodwin (03:40):
There's 433 national Park units that are out
there.
I had mentioned that previously,and that would include your
national battlefields, yourNational Lake sos, your National
Wild and Scenic Rivers, yournational monuments.
There the list is quiteextensive.
If I remember right, there's a.
Roll over 20 designations ofdifferent sites.
(04:00):
And sometimes it's surprisingeven at say Golden Gate National
Recreation Area where I ended mycareer.
A lot of people say that wouldcome visit Ocean Beach or Sutra
Park or whatever.
They would be surprised theywere in a national park unit and
to see a ranger there.
We're scattered all across thecountry in the territories as
well.
Missy Rentz (04:18):
So in my social feed, I see a lot of pleading to
close the parks.
Why is there an effort to getthe Department of Interior to
close the parks?
John Goodwin (04:30):
Because of what happened last time at, what was
the last shutdown?
2019?
It was a disaster.
So you look at an overflowingtrash can and you're like, eh,
not a big deal.
When the shutdowns over, theycan come and just bag up the
trash.
They're forgetting the crows,the ravens, the squirrels, the
bears.
They're gonna rip that trash andspread it everywhere, and
especially when you're dealingwith say, bears, right?
(04:52):
Somebody Yellowstone type ofissue.
Fed bear is a dead bear.
So you know, you open up theparks, you have all the visitors
come, and they're not doing whatthey should in situations like
this and pack their trash out,right?
So you're gonna have trashflowing everywhere.
You're gonna have restrooms thatare gonna be a mess.
You're gonna have lessprotection.
Rangers that are out thereguarding, say the say the Anazi
(05:16):
sites, right?
People are gonna look at this asan opportunity without rangers
out there to go and steal.
And that was an issue from thelast shutdown.
That's why a lot of people aresaying, close the parks.
Please safeguard the parks.
Missy Rentz (05:30):
Yeah, I, you read the stories of the devastation,
just, not just like trash andmessiness, but the vandalism and
the ecological devastationbecause people went off trails
and they just weren't recreatingresponsibly
John Goodwin (05:42):
absolutely.
Absolutely.
And in some cases like Imentioned the, the animals that
are gonna be affected by this ina negative manner.
But the archeological sites,when you got vandalism that,
even spray paint right?
Or whatever.
Good luck trying to clean thatup.
You pretty much just ruined anarea or doing off-road travel.
You might have just ripped up avery fragile area, with your
(06:02):
vehicle.
And I don't know, Missy, Ididn't, I do not know what.
Possesses people when there's norangers around.
And by rangers, interpretiverangers, maintenance, everyone
wearing the uniform, it justseems that when there's no
rangers around, people just actso irresponsibly.
Not everybody, but there's acertain portion of people that
(06:24):
do that.
And it just it drives us nuts.
As a ranger, I gotta tell you.
It's just like, why would you dothis?
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (06:31):
And you come from the National Park Service.
Are there implications that wewould have to be aware of for
the other public lands, theNational Forest, the Bureau of
Land Management, these otherplaces
John Goodwin (06:42):
Absolutely.
Oh sure.
Yeah.
The forest again.
You're gonna find less employeesworking there.
If any, and you're talking aboutalso this year, in the past nine
months, there's been devastatingcuts already to the workforce.
And then you look atnon-essential employees getting
furloughed right now as you'regonna find even less so National
Forest.
Absolutely.
You're.
Hopefully, knock on wood, you'renot gonna see the level of
(07:04):
devastation that say you wouldin years past.
I hope the public has learned bythat.
But yeah, national Forest, BLMyou name it, Missy.
I know any public land that'saffected by this this federal
budget shutdown down is gonnabe, it's gonna be negatively
affected.
Missy Rentz (07:18):
Yeah, I know I have Acadia on my list to visit
starting this weekend.
Should we visit our parks?
John Goodwin (07:26):
You know that is, I've, yeah, that that's probably
something that each of yourlisteners is gonna have to
decide for themselves.
Now, if you don't visit yournational park unit your public
land you won't be spending moneyprobably on the little towns
that border these public lands.
So you're gonna negativelyaffect their economy.
So that's something to think of.
(07:47):
If you do make the decision togo.
Please be responsible, it's notthat hard to follow the rules.
Follow the rules, even ifthere's not a ranger looking
over your shoulder.
Follow the rules.
Pack out what you bring in, notjust talking about back country
camping and anything like that.
Talking like front country camp,pack out your trash please.
If you see.
(08:07):
A trash can that's overflowing.
Don't try to stuff more trash inthere.
Help by packing it out.
Bring things to clean therestroom after yourself.
I'm not talking about going inand cleaning public restrooms
all by yourself.
I'm talking about cleaning upafter yourself.
Bring stuff with you.
It's not that hard of your carcamping.
So do that.
If you see a gate closed out ofpublic land because of the
(08:30):
budget shut down.
Don't go around the gate.
I saw that when I used to workduring the shutdowns, we would
close off portions of the park,and of course people would just
walk around them.
What about that gate saying, donot enter?
Did you not understand?
They're like, oh, we thought itmeant cars.
So if you see a gate, pleasedon't go past it.
If there's no ranger around.
Please don't, don't go in theback country and oh, it's open
(08:53):
season now.
I can camp wherever I want.
No, please don't.
Be responsible and just try todo the right thing.
You
Missy Rentz (09:00):
I like your point that, everybody has to make that
decision for themselves.
I'm currently thinking abouthitting state parks instead.
I think this is an opportunityto see what else is around.
There's a lot of local and stateparks that usually butt up
against national land.
That may be a good option foryou right now.
John Goodwin (09:20):
That is that's a great option.
Absolutely.
And I'll get off my soapbox in aminute but really what drives me
nuts with these budgetshutdowns, it's only during
these times do you see themcoming out and saying, we love
our public lands.
Keep'em open.
And that's both sides of thepolitical spectrum.
I wish that they would be outthere the rest of the year and
increasing and I'm talkingnational parks here but
(09:41):
increased the park budgets,please bring back our rangers,
bring back people, everyone whoworks, within the National Park
units fall 433 of them, pleaseincrease our budget.
Just don't pay attention whenthe parks are shut down.
And that's also for yourlisteners, national parks and
all.
The public lands are getting theattention right now.
Don't forget about them when theshutdown ends, contact your
(10:05):
local representatives.
Contact the White House, tellthem to increase the funding
because it's great to havevisitors.
But when you don't have staff,because your budgets are slashed
every single year it does no oneany good.
Don't forget about the parks.
Missy Rentz (10:22):
And I think we are at, while it's not a big
election year, we are inelection season.
And I think it's important foryou to voice your opinion
through your votes and, not justlisten, everybody's saying they
love the parks right now, butwhat are people's records and
how they do or don't support theparks.
And this is a good time to doit.
And to remind our governmentelected officials that the parks
(10:44):
and our public lands areimportant to us.
John Goodwin (10:46):
Absolutely.
Yep, I agree.
Agree completely.
Missy Rentz (10:49):
yeah, so John, we're on like day two, day three
of the shutdown.
So maybe we don't see a lot now,but the longer this goes, the
more we're gonna notice the lackof staffing at the parks.
And so we just need to beprepared.
John Goodwin (11:04):
Absolutely.
If I could just real, real quickstory.
I went back packing up Yosemitetried to do half dome and clouds
rest and didn't see a singleback country ranger.
This is before the shutdown andI, the ranger me came out and I
was having to.
Educate people as they'reheading up towards half dome
about the dangers of lightning,the dangers of of rain on the
(11:25):
granite, if they're going up thecable route or even go up to
clouds rest.
And that, like I said, that wasbefore the shutdown, be prepared
if you're gonna go to the publiclands.
There's less rangers now.
There's less staff now thanthere, there was before.
Now you'll find hardly any sincethe the past nine months it's
been decimated.
So please recreate responsibly.
(11:47):
Be safe.
Have fun if you go, but just,just try to remind the, your
listeners, please pack outeverything.
Be kind to the resource.
Missy Rentz (11:56):
Yeah.
Thank you John.
And I'd like to just put an openinvitation the longer this goes
on, if there's more questions,we regroup and put together
another episode just to keep thelisteners informed on how to
recreate.
John Goodwin (12:09):
Sounds good.
Missy Rentz (12:10):
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
I just also wanna mention thatthe second edition of John's
book, echoes of the BadgeStories from a National Park
Service career is now out andit's more stories right John?
John Goodwin (12:22):
Yes, a absolutely.
Yep.
I arrange the stories a littlebit more chronologically and
there are a few more stories inthere.
Even detailing what I've beendoing the past nine months just,
trying to do my part to fightfor the public lands.
But yeah I think your listenerswill definitely enjoy it.
It's not only on Amazon.
It's published through Ingramand through Lulu.
That just means you can go toindependent bookstores or you
(12:44):
can go to the, the big brandname ones like Barnes and Noble,
and you can order the book ifit's not already on the shelf.
Missy Rentz (12:50):
And you can listen to the episode we did with John
earlier this year that wasspecifically about the book.
So you'll hear more, but I justwanted to make sure I mentioned
that your second edition wasout.
John, I just wanna thank you forbeing part of this episode and
helping educate us on what'sgoing on with the parks and how
do we use them right now.
John Goodwin (13:08):
Missy, thanks for doing what you're doing.
I really appreciate it.
Missy Rentz (13:11):
Absolutely.
That's it for this episode.
Until next time, we'll see youin the parks.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please be sure to like and share
on your favorite podcastplatform.
Music for the parks podcast isperformed and produced by Porter
Hardy.
For more information, pleasefollow us on Instagram at the
(13:31):
parks podcast.
Or visit ourwebsite@theparkspodcast.com.
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