Sandra Ramos – Advocating for our Parks (Episode 25)

Sandra Ramos joins me to talk about how to advocate for parks and visit parks during these turbulent times.

Episode Transcript

Missy (00:00):
At a time when headlines talk about staffing cuts and
funding cuts to our parks,forests, and other public lands,
we turn to friends and socialmedia to learn how we can
protect our parks.
Join us as we explore theseturbulent times and how we can
all help.
I'm your host, Missy Rents, andthis is the Parks Podcast.

(00:22):
I am so excited to have SandraRamos join the Parks Podcast
with us today.
Many know her as the NationalPark Patch Lady, but she's had a
long career in politics andconservation.
And while her day job is withthe National Park Conservation
Association, we're not talkingabout that today.
Sandra has visited 257 nationalpark sites and is a big

(00:46):
advocate for the parks and thevital role that they play in all
of our lives, even if you don'tgo visit them.
Sandra, welcome to the ParksPodcast.

Sandra (00:56):
Thanks so much for having me.
I appreciate it.

Missy (00:58):
So, Sandra, you and I were introduced when I was
interviewing Gary for BiscayneNational Park.
And I was talking to him aboutwhat I do, what my passions.
And he was like, you have tomeet Sandra.
And since then, we met.
And since then, other rangersare like, you know who you need
to meet.
And now I can stop them and go,Sandra, I know.

(01:18):
I know, Sandra.

Sandra (01:23):
Oh, my goodness.
Well, that warms my heartbecause, you know, I think park
rangers are the best part of apark.
So that warms my heart thatrangers say that.
And it's been a pleasure to getto know all of them in my
travels.

Missy (01:35):
Yeah, they are absolutely wonderful.
And when we first met and I waskind of dreaming up what this
episode was going to be about,never in a million years would I
think it's going to be on thetopic we're talking about, which
is how to advocate for ourparks.
I just couldn't imagine.
And I think if people arewatching the news and

(01:55):
everything, they know what'sgoing on.
And we'll get into it.
But this episode is soimportant because of your
experience in politics, inadvocacy.
And I think you're going tohelp guide us on what in the
heck do we do.

Sandra (02:10):
The pressure.
I'll do what I can.
I hope I can meet expectations.
OK, so first, I want to talk alittle bit about you and your
past.
You've worked in politics.
You're an incrediblephotographer and you advocate
for parks.
How did you first connect withparks?
Sure.
So I had a 20-year career inpolitics.

(02:31):
I was mostly involved in thecampaign aspect, but I also
worked for elected officials anddid a little bit of policy
stuff.
And so my background is ingrassroots organizing and that
type of politics.
I'd retired from that in 2010,and I really didn't realize how
much of politics had beenabsorbed into my personality.

(02:51):
I was so used to, for 20 years,talking about the people who I
worked for, what their what theystood for and what their
policies were.
But I realized after I leftthat I didn't even have my own.
And so I really felt lost andhad a really bad, bad
depression.
And a friend of mine that Iused to work with in a
congressional office said, hey,let's go to Gettysburg and

(03:13):
Antietam.
And then this was in 2012 or13.
And I didn't really want to go,but I went anyway.
And it was my first recognitiontype of experience with the
National Park Service.
And And I'm a history buff anda history nerd.
And I particularly love theCivil War and Reconstruction

(03:33):
eras, not so much for what mostpeople love them for.
But I'm fascinated by thesociology of how our culture in
America evolved since then,because I don't necessarily
think that it's changed much.
And I think we can learn fromthat part of history.
But nonetheless, I digress.
And so I fell in love.
And not having a job and livingin Washington, D.C.

(03:54):
at the time, which was andtrying to quit politics was
crazy.
But I learned that there wereall these park sites around me
and I just started visitingthem.
And I fell in love with beingable to talk to really
knowledgeable people about partsof our history that were not
necessarily taught in schools orin our regular studies.
And these amazing places andviews and vistas and the

(04:18):
connection of all of that justreally spoke to me.
And so I started photographingthem and I started putting them
on Instagram and that was that.

Missy (04:28):
And your handle is National Park Patch Lady.
Yes.
Now, if you are watching this,this is the first episode we're
going to launch with video.
If you're watching this, youmight understand why.
But if not, why are you theNational Park Patch Lady?
So

Sandra (04:42):
behind me is part of my patch collection.
So as park enthusiasts, asparkies, we all find that one
souvenir item that we like,whether it's, you know, stickers
or magnets or, you know, mugsor what.
And I collect a little bit ofall of it but my main thing is
patches and a friend of mine hadtaken a picture of me in a barn

(05:04):
as big black leather comfychair and another friend of mine
saw the picture and made a memethat said the national park
patch lady on the historychannel and i posted it for fun
and a bunch of my friends chimedin and said hey i would totally
watch that and it stuck and sothat is how i acquired the
handle national patches baby ilove

Missy (05:26):
it i love it yeah you are right that everybody has
something.
Mine is Christmas ornaments.
I do.
And so, you know, everyChristmas I just like relive it.
But you see so much of that andit's such a fun way, some fun
memento of the park.

Sandra (05:39):
Absolutely.
Because each of them have astory, right?
Like I can look at each ofthese patches on my wall and I
can tell you a story.
And so it feels like a diary ofmy life that I see every day
and that makes me smile.

Missy (05:52):
Yeah.
And I feel that our experiencesin parks, you tend to be so
present that even been lookingat one you can almost like feel
what you were feeling the dayyes you bought it which is

Sandra (06:02):
absolutely absolutely and you know and some of the
patches there's there's probablya dozen or so of parks that i
haven't been to yet but folkswho follow me online have sent
me patches from places thatthey've been that i haven't been
in so even that story to mewarms my heart when i think of
them and makes me feel so muchgratitude for this community of
folks who love our nationalparks

Missy (06:23):
yeah totally so i mentioned in the intro that the
national park conservationAssociation.
And here in the parks podcast,we have talked a ton about like
the confusing structure of parksand monuments and grasslands
and whatnot.
And now we're going to we'regoing to add to it.
We're going to add to the mixbecause people see the National
Park Service, National ParkFoundation and the National Park

(06:46):
Conservation Association.
Right.
What do each of them do?

Sandra (06:50):
Right.
So, OK.
And this happens all the time.
I get introduced as working forthe Park Service.
I mean, it just like it's It'shard to understand.
So we have the National ParkService, NPS, which is the park
service, right?
And they are a governmentalentity under the Department of
Interior.
And so all of their allocationand budget comes from the

(07:12):
appropriations process ofCongress, right?
So that's all government.
Then you have the National ParkFoundation, which is a
congressionally charterednonprofit.
So they're established byCongress, chartered by Congress
to be the non nonprofit arm forthe national parks.
So part of their budget comesfrom Congress and then some of

(07:34):
it because they're a nonprofit,they raise on their own.
And then we have NPCA, theNational Parks Conservation
Association.
And we are a member-driven,nonprofit, nonpartisan advocacy
organization on behalf of ourparks.
And basically the best way tosay that is we connect people,

(07:55):
parks, and policy.
Oh, wow.
And so even though NPF does doa little bit of governmental
affairs stuff, that's really ourgig, right?
We do a lot of conservationwork.
We do a lot of science workthat then ties into how, you
know, how the parks thenexperience and do their science
work.
And so there's a lot that goesinto the work that we do on a

(08:18):
lot of levels from, you know,organizing and community levels
all the way up to, you know,national water policy and
wildlife and air quality policystuff.
And so, yeah, we do a lot ofstuff.
So that's kind of the breakdownof the three.

Missy (08:31):
And I think it's important, especially as we dive
deeper into the conversation,for people to understand because
there There's a different rolepeople are playing right now.

Sandra (08:41):
For sure.
And it's so hard to describewhat we do.
And then people say, well, Iwant to donate.
I don't know who to give to.
And it really depends on, Imean, that's a personal
preference, but you need to knowwhere your money's going and
what it's doing for you.

Missy (08:56):
Exactly.
Okay.
Let's get into the meat of thisbecause it's such a crazy time.
For anyone paying attention inthe news, our public lands are
taking a huge hit.
hit with funding cuts, staffingcuts, how history in our
country is being told.
And then to add another layerto that, everything's changing

(09:17):
every day.
So let's spell out what peopleneed to know.
And I want to say, this is asof 4.10 Eastern time on Friday,

Sandra (09:29):
March 14th.
Right?
Because it's going to change,you know, before five o'clock,
I'm sure there'll be three moreexecutive orders doing something
different.

Missy (09:35):
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So I think that's so important.
And I also want to point outthat when you and I were talking
about having this conversation,we've also kind of agreed that
if and as things change and wefeel we need to have another
conversation to help peopleunderstand, we're going to do
that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Note, February 14th, orFebruary, March 14th.

Sandra (09:55):
Yeah, I'm just going to put this in big, like super high
level terms, just so it'seasier to digest because there's
so much coming at us and it'sso overwhelming.
Okay, so let's start at the...
Let's start number four times.
When we entered thisadministration, the National
Park Service was already downstaffing 20% across the board.

(10:17):
Okay, so we already wereunderstaffed in all of our parks
across the country.
So then...
the February 14th massacrehappens, right?
Where we have a thousandNational Park Service staff,
probationary staff are fired.
Now, the thing to understandabout this is just because

(10:40):
they're probationary, like thereis a default expectation of,
oh, that means they were introuble and put on like some
sort of, you know, watch list orwhatever it is.
No, no, no.
What probationary means to theNational Park Service is you
took a new position And you hada one-year time period to
acclimate to that position inorder to be established as

(11:02):
permanent.
So what we have are 25-yearbiologists with the National
Park Service who got promoted,but were in their probationary
period of that job.
But because they wereprobationary, were fired.
You have archaeologists.
You have historians.
You have folks who have been onthe ground.

(11:23):
You have interpretive staff.
You have maintenance staff.
have all these types of folksacross the board, fire staff
across the board that are justillegally fired.
And so that institutionalknowledge is gone.
So the administration, in myperception, the administration
scrambled and said, okay, okay,we're going to allow, what was

(11:45):
it, 6,000 seasonals hired.
And which is all well and good,and that's a nice number, but
take into consideration that onan average year, the National
Park Service hires 5,500seasonal staff across the board.
So when they say, oh, let'sjust hire 6,000 seasonal, well,

(12:06):
550 of 5,500 of those, arealready like in baked into what
we usually hire.
So you're really only giving uslike 500 extra and we're
already 20% down.
And then you just fired a bunchof folks.
Okay.
So right.
Understaffing.
So in the last 24, 36, 48hours, two judges have said, no

(12:30):
doge, you have to rehire from 18different agencies, including
the national park service.
You have to rehire those.
You have to offerreinstatement.
to those folks who wereprobationary folks who were
fired.
As of right now, I have notheard of a park ranger who's
been reinstated.
And that's across fire service,BLM, park service.

(12:52):
I have not heard anybody whohas been offered a reinstatement
yet.
And there's a rumor and thereis talk and there's the
grapevine of folks that eithertoday on March 14th or tomorrow,
the administration wants to cutanother 30% of staffing.

(13:16):
Oh my gosh.
And so that's where we are.
I will tell you that this hasprobably been the most
heartbreaking three months of myentire life listening to former
and current park rangers andtheir stories about their parks

(13:37):
and their colleagues and theirfriends and their staff and
detriment that this is causing.
The fear and the chaos and theanger and just the
ridiculousness of this all.
So that's where we are.

Missy (13:51):
Yeah.
Sandra, I have a question andI'm springing this on you.
If I can do it.

Sandra (13:57):
I know, right, all right.
If not, maybe we'll find outand figure out.
One of the things that I wasthinking about is Sure, there is
an expense to running theNational Park Service.
Yet, there is also a lot ofrevenue that comes in through
the parks and through theeconomies in the towns, cities

(14:19):
where the parks are.
And I would think that thatnumber far surpasses the expense
of running the national parks.

Missy (14:28):
Right.

Sandra (14:28):
Yeah, and I know the number floats around and I wish
I had that really quickly on me,but I don't.
But what I will tell you isthis, is the last numbers I saw
were something like the ParkService takes in like $55
billion in revenue and onlyexpends $5 billion, right?
And I'll put this in differentterms, right?

(14:49):
Okay, so let's take a park thatI work in pretty regularly, Big
Thicket National Preserve inSoutheast Texas.

Missy (14:55):
Okay.

Sandra (14:56):
You've probably never heard of that park.
Most people haven't because- Ihave, but okay.
But 275, roughly, 275,000people visit this park every
year, okay?
In the gateway community.
So now you have to understandthat Big Thicket spans seven
counties in 15 discontiguousunits, right?

(15:17):
So it's like, it's a hot mess.
And, which is something we'reworking on, but you've got a
park like this and it supports,The park itself supports
community-wide 290 jobs in thatseven-county region.
And it brings in almost $20million to those local gateway
communities through lodging,restaurants, outfitters, all

(15:40):
sorts of things that we do whenwe visit places, right?
And so in a very rural regionlike where Big Thicket is, that
the main employers here are theoil and gas industry.
You have a place where thelocals all know the Big Thicket.
I mean, you can walk into anyof these small towns and you can

(16:03):
say Big Thicket and, oh, theBig Thicket.
Not one of them understandsthat it's a national park site.
Not one of them understandsthat it's a...
a conserved area because of itsbiological crossroads.
It's nine ecosystems that itprotects, the animals and the
wildlife and the recreationalopportunities that it provides.

(16:26):
But it brings $20 million intothat local economy.
That's nothing to sneeze at.
No,

Missy (16:31):
no.
And that's one thing that'sfascinating to me.
And I think the parks are worthkeeping whether they make any
money or not.
But when we talk about fundingbeing cut and staffing being
cut, you're also talking talkingabout revenue to the diners and
the gas stations and the taxesto those to those communities.
And so I don't think theripple effect has been

(16:55):
communicated yet on what happenswhen you do.

Sandra (16:58):
d Right.
Yeah.
And in the big parks, theyknow, like in spring in
Springdale, outside of of Zion,like they know the detriment
that this is going to have for avariety.
I mean, they've they've beenprotesting since the first day
that this has been happening.
The big parks know.
Arches, Canyonlands.
Right.
They know what this is.

(17:19):
Yosemite, Yellowstone.
It's the parks like Chiricahuain Arizona that looks like a big
park but does not have theinfrastructure of a big park but
could be a big park if it wantsto because it's just that
amazing.
But now they're down staff,right?
And so if folks were then todetour in Tucson on their way to

(17:41):
or from Suarez because Saguarois now closed two days a week
because of staffing cuts, right?
The visitor center is nowclosed two days a week.
So you make the 45-minutedetour to Chiricahua, you know,
what does that look like forthose small parks, right?
And so it's, I don't know.
Yeah.
I could go on.
I know, I know,

Missy (17:58):
I know.
Okay, the third thing I want totalk about, we've talked about
funding, we've talked aboutstaffing cuts.

Sandra (18:03):
Yeah.

Missy (18:03):
The censorship and the, what is, what history, what
science is being done Deleted.

Sandra (18:14):
Yeah.
So again, we'll preface this bysaying as of Friday, March
14th, because even in just thelast 24 hours, I was reading
that the website for ArlingtonCemetery has scrubbed every
mention of every woman or personof color who is buried in the

(18:34):
cemetery or something likesomething crazy, like any
mention of anyone who has anysort of diversity has been
scrubbed.
And it's like, Wow.
And so there is a list that theWashington, I'm sorry, that the
New York Times posted earlierthis week of all of the words
that were banned.
Female, cultural heritage,indigenous, tribal, all sorts of

(19:00):
like...
How...
The Park Service can't even dotheir work without a lot of this
language.
And the Park Service was justcoming into doing a really great
job of changing a lot of theirvery uncomfortable and written
in the 1970s way sides andinterpretive stuff.
And so now here we are, right?

(19:21):
There is a rumor that's goingaround that any national
monument that was establishedthrough the Antiquities Act that
has anything to do withanything that's other than what
the administration approves isgoing to be nixed.
And so parks like that aregoing to be like the recently
established Francis PerkinsNational Monument in Maine or

(19:42):
the Carlisle Indian School orplaces like Blackwell School in
Marfa that was just establishedin September here in Texas.
And so they're really trying towipe away a lot of the history.
And, you know, that's the stuffthat I really care about.
Yeah, me too.

Missy (20:00):
Me too.
And I find one of the things Ithink that the National Park
Service has, at least myexperience so far, has done
well, is owning up to the goodand the ugly.
And they just are telling thestory.
And I think they've done a nicejob.
Everybody can do better, butthey've done a nice job.
And it makes me mad and sad andall of those emotions to see

(20:24):
that they're just gone.
I mean, I got an email theother day about there was a, oh,
I can't remember the name ofthe place now, but there was a,
there's a home in Raleigh.
And because this priest was anadvocate for LGBT, it's gone.

Sandra (20:40):
Yeah.

Missy (20:41):
Just gone.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Sandra (20:43):
I mean, it's fascinating to think that, How this
administration thinks that theycan just press a delete button
and it wipes it away.
I mean, and...
That is really where it'simportant for all of us to be

(21:04):
involved and use our voices andus, you know, I've never been
one to believe.
And then again, I spent 20years in political campaigns.
I'm not one who believes thatsomeone's voice doesn't count.
I believe that everyone'svoices counts because if
everyone who said my voicedoesn't count, then all stood in
a room together, you'd have afull room, right?
Right.
my friends to do one thingevery day.

(21:31):
Do one thing.
I mean, if it's telling aperson at the grocery store line
about national parks, or youcall your grandmother and you
tell her to get, you know, herto call her representatives,
whatever that one thing iswearing my t-shirt, right?
I stand with park rangers.
Yeah.
I love it.
Yes.
It's, it's part of my newresistance wardrobe.
I'm now just like rotatingthrough resistance t-shirts.

(21:55):
You've inspired me.
So I've placed a few orders.
But, but, You know, I mean, wehave to fight back.
We have no choice.
And no one has an excuse not tobe.

Missy (22:07):
Yeah.
So that leads us to, like, whatis currently being done?
And maybe if you know, maybe wedivide this into what's being
done by our politicians andwhat's being done by citizens,
park lovers.
Yeah.

Sandra (22:26):
So the first part, what's being done by our
politicians, I couldn't tellyou.
I

Missy (22:33):
was wondering because I was so mad the other day because
I saw a post and it was about acandidate going sled riding
with their kids.
And I was like, I don't want tohear about you sled riding.
I want you to stand up and saywhat you really think.
Right.

Sandra (22:49):
Do something.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I don't know what they'redoing.
I mean, obviously everybody'splaying a whack-a-mole right now
because the administration ispurposely trying to create chaos
because the more chaos they cancreate, then it's sort of the
smoke to what they're reallytrying to do, which is overthrow

(23:11):
the government.
Yeah.
Right.
And so, cause this, that's whatthis is.
And my boss had recently comeout with a statement that this
could be the beginning of theend of our national parks, with
Bybrick and ranger by ranger.
And we need to take that reallyseriously.

Missy (23:29):
Yeah.

Sandra (23:30):
I remember...
During the election, supportersof this administration would
say they don't really mean it.
You know, that's that's notwhat they're they're going to
do.
And that is exactly whatthey're doing.
And now's the time to getangry.
Right.

Speaker 01 (23:50):
And and, you know, and I.
I really hate to put it inthese terms, but I mean, it's
really the only way to say itbecause I've called out a couple
of people recently about this.
What that shows is theirprivilege, because what they're
really saying is.
I knew that this was going tohappen.
It just wasn't supposed tohappen to me.
It was supposed to happen tothem.
Yes.

(24:10):
Right.
I, you know, and so it's it'sreally sly how Fox News and and
the the media echo chamber thatthose folks live in sort of
totally spun this to make themfeel okay because what they're
really saying and that issomebody else was supposed to
get hurt it wasn't supposed tobe me and now that it's

(24:31):
affecting them it's problematic

Missy (24:35):
yeah yeah so okay do protests work

Sandra (24:44):
yes if you if they've done well right so the I'm going
to put this in political termsbecause that's, it's just the
easiest way for me to describeit.
My entire political career,what I noticed is Republicans,

(25:05):
conservatives, whatever you wantto call them, are really great
at like all getting lockstep andgoing through the turnstile one
by one, right?
They all know the message.
They all know what they'resupposed to do.
They're lockstep.
Everybody's boom.
And that has, it's good and badto it.
Democratic Party, progressives,whatever we want to call
ourselves, antifa you knowwhatever whatever they call them

(25:27):
uh we call ourselves are reallygreat at including everybody
but we're really bad aboutgetting behind each other for
one message to be concise itsuper drives me nuts when i go
to a women's march rally andthere's like science and schools
and and it's like yes those areall issues but today is this
issue right and if we do thiswell we're not fighting each

(25:51):
other i mean And it's kind offunny because it's sort of like
the zero sum game, right?
And I think that this is whatTrump supporters and the
administration's supporters havefallen into is they believe
that if someone else is gettingsome, that that means I'm not
getting mine.
And it's sort of like the way alot of progressives think of
politics in our senses.

(26:11):
Like if they don't hear mymessage, then I'm not getting
any.
You know, it's like my messageor no message all the time.
Right.
And so we really need to bebetter about like show up to the
women's march, have a women'ssign.
Show up to the parks march,have a park sign.
Be inclusive in that communitybecause the more you can build
those communities and networkthem, the stronger we can be.

Speaker 02 (26:34):
Right.
Otherwise, we look and we feelscattered.
It's like, wait, what's thismessage?

Speaker 01 (26:39):
Right.
And so I'll put a second partto this.
So two weekends ago now, Iguess, we did the Resistance
Rangers.
Man, they are kicking somebutt.
These folks...
I don't know who they are orwhat they do or like, but
there's like...
There's this group and they arejust on top of it and they are

(27:03):
so great.
Had organized the entirecountry and tried to host 433
rallies in 433 parks.
I think they got up to like 175and there were some parks, a
handful of parks that only hadlike one person who signed up or
showed up.
And I mean, it was justincredible.
And so those folks are reallysort of organizing stuff.

(27:24):
Now, As NPCA, I wasn't allowedto participate in a protest, but
as National Park Patch Lady, Icertainly could.
And so I put together the BigThicket Rally, the middle of
nowhere, Southeast Texas, anhour and a half from Houston.
And in 72 hours that I puttogether this rally, 30 people
showed up.

Speaker 02 (27:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 01 (27:42):
All over.

Missy (27:43):
I was at Shenandoah National Park, the south
entrance.
Same thing.
50 people showed up.

Speaker 01 (27:47):
Yeah.
But the more important part is,okay, so do rallies work?
Well, I find that 30 peopleshowing up to the middle of
nowhere, Big Thicket, is a win.
But even more important, Iposted pictures on my Instagram
and I think I'm up to 29.5thousand people liked that
particular post about myprotest.
Wow.

(28:08):
And so I've got peoplemessaging me going, I never
heard of Big Thicket.
Where is it?
is it?
What is it?
What's the deal?
And so I've put, I've had moretraction from the aftermath of
my protest.
And so do protests work?
I mean, what's my goal?
Is my goal to bring visibilityto my park and my issue?
Absolutely.
Did I do that?

(28:28):
Absolutely.

Missy (28:29):
Yeah.
I also think for me, I feltconnected to like-minded people
and therefore I was energized.
I kind of got rid of some ofthe discouragement and I sort of
feel like I left there filledwith hope.

Sandra (28:43):
Yeah.

Missy (28:44):
So I think it gave me that.
I think we all united a littlebit more because now, you know,
I'm friends and sharing morewith people that were doing it.
You know, I share your stuff.
You share mine.
I share Resistance Rangers.
Like we're all kind of gettingthe message out.
And so we're creating greatcontent that gets to go out
there.
And it's encouraging us to belouder.

(29:06):
And I feel like like I I thinkI'm going to go to the DC one
tomorrow and I'm going to reviveto feel revived and to be there
and be present and, you know,all of those things.
Because I think it's just soimportant, besides the noise
that we make when you're there,like you said, the aftermath,
the connections, the hope, thespark that it lights for

(29:27):
whatever's coming down the road.
Yeah.

Sandra (29:29):
Yeah.
And I encourage you to go tothat rally.
John, who's the guy who'sputting it together, is a former
park ranger.
I think one of his, I think hisdaughter was also a park ranger
and she was fired.
And so he did this train ride.
He was doing a train rideacross the country.
I mean, really great story.
I've been chatting with him alittle bit on Instagram, and I
wish that I could be therebecause he's exactly the type of

(29:52):
protest I want to support.
So if you talk to him tomorrow,please tell him that I am
giving him good vibes.

Missy (29:59):
Is he the Lego person or is somebody else the Lego
person?

Sandra (30:03):
I think somebody else is the Lego person.
He just has a Lego that he'staking with him.

Missy (30:09):
I saw it and immediately went and was like, when I I need
a, I need a Lego Ranger.
I don't, and they don't haveit, but I'm like, I want a Lego
Ranger.
I

Sandra (30:17):
want to take one too.
Yeah.
But there's the Instagramaccount, Lego Rangers, which
I've been following for a while.
And they're always very timely,very excellent.
And I would love to get to knowwho they are.
You should, you shouldinterview them.

Missy (30:27):
Okay.
I'll try it.
I'll try it.
Okay.
So we've talked about what'scurrently being done.

Sandra (30:32):
Yeah.

Missy (30:32):
People listening.
Yeah.
How do we advocate for parks?

Sandra (30:37):
Okay.

Missy (30:39):
Yeah.

Sandra (30:39):
How do we advocate for parks?
You know, it has evolved.
If you had asked me thisquestion three months ago, it
would be very different fromwhat I'm telling you now.
The most important thing is touse your voice every day.
At least one time every day.
Just make that commitment.
I'm just going to do somethinglike we were talking about
earlier.
You know, wear a t-shirt, talkto somebody in line, you know,
at the grocery store, whateverit is.

(30:59):
Use your voice on social media.
I am extraordinarilydisappointed that in a lot of
folks who utilize our nationalparks and our public lands and
post pretty pictures from themand talk about their trips who
are not saying anything.
And I am, but it's important todo that.

(31:22):
You don't know everybody who'sfollowing.
You don't know who's there.
You don't know like why theyfollow you.
And so if you can reach out tosomebody who's never done any
type of activism before and getthem to do something like you,
you won the day.
So send postcards to yourrepresentatives.
Okay.
If they support our parksalready, fantastic.
Thank them for their support.

(31:42):
If they don't support parks,tell them why it's important.
Okay.
I have been encouraged folks inmy region to call our
Republican congressmen once aday, every day.

Missy (31:55):
What do they say?
What do you say when you call?

Sandra (31:57):
So it's, hi, I'm a constituent and I'm a supporter
of our national parks.
The national park in ourbackyard is the Big Thicket
National Preserve.
It is currently understaffedand underfunded.
And I want to encourage ourcongressmen to support the the
national park that brings ineconomic value and reparational

(32:19):
value to our community.
Perfect.

Missy (32:22):
I'm going to type that up for everybody and I'll put it
on our episode page so thatthere's a script for them.
You can find them online too.
There's tons of scripts, butI'll type that up.

Sandra (32:31):
And here's the thing.
It's like, you're not there togive them a speech.
Three sentences.
Okay.
I'm going to give you a littlepolitical prep real quick.
Okay.
Ready?
It's what I call a 27-9-3.
It's 27 words in nine secondswith three points.
Okay.
Okay.
And so it's not as easy as itsounds, but if you can craft

(32:52):
your elevator pitch which is 27words in three in i'm sorry in
27 words in nine seconds withthree points boom that's what
you call with them and you callevery and you call every day you
call their congressional officein washington and you call
their every local office thatthey have in the district and
you call both um if you don'tlike calling which i don't blame

(33:16):
you i ran you know phone banksfor a long time send a postcard
i recently went through all ofmy my park gear, and I found an
entire sack of postcards that Inever sent from national parks.
Some of them are even stampedon the date that I went.
And these are now going to goto elected officials.
I love that idea.
To support our parks.
And so it's like all differenttypes of parks.

(33:37):
I mean, from all over theplace.
You know, and so send apostcard.
So it's calling is mostimportant.
Call every day.
Call every office.
Whether it's Republican orDemocrat.
Republican or Democrat.
If they're Democrat, call everyday.
Say, this is important to mebecause what that does is then
that puts, for the Democrats whosupport your part, what that

(33:58):
does is like, oh, we need tomove that up to the priority
list because everything rightnow can't be a priority, but
everything feels like it needsto be our priority.
Social Security, Medicare,veterans, environment, you know,
all these things.
But if national parks are thatimportant to you, put it on
their radar.
And so every day it's at leastphone call.
Hey, I'm a constituent.

(34:18):
Just want to say thank you forsupporting our parks.
It's really important.
Boom.
That's it.
That's all you got to say.
And then just spread the word.
You know, tell people why it'simportant.
Tell them your story about theparks.
Tell them, you know, what it isyou love about the parks.
So that's my spiel for the day.

Missy (34:35):
Okay, so April 19th to April 27th is National Parks
Week.
Yes.
Do you know right now ifanything is being done that we
should be preparing for?
I

Sandra (34:45):
I don't, but here's what I do every National Parks Week,
and I would encourage folks todo this as well, is every
National Park Week, I call mylocal county commissioners or
city council or whatever localbody entity there is, and I ask
to be put on the public andcitizens' communication list.
And you get three minutes tojust talk about whatever.

(35:07):
And I go in there and I say, Iwant to let you know about
something that you probablydon't know about.
And I want to wish you a happyNational Parks Week.
And I talk about the nationalpark that's in my backyard and
say, thank you very much.
And the reason why I encouragethis is because you're not
asking them for anything.
You're giving them informationand you're showing your passion.

(35:31):
A happy National Parks Week,CityCats.
council, our national parkbrings in $20 million into our
local economy, over 270,000people visit here, and it
supports 290 jobs in ourcommunity.
Not to mention that, you know,the floodplains are protected.
It leaves trees and forests forus for our hunting, which is

(35:52):
part of our outdoor community.
I mean, you can, you know, justtalk about it, right?
Just, if you don't want to dothat for National Parks Week, go
to a small national park rightpost cards to send to park
rangers to thank them for theirservice, right?
Because right now they arefeeling so beaten up.

Missy (36:11):
Yeah.
So let's talk about visiting apark.
With everything that's going onand things are just changing
and situations are evolving andall of that.
Should we still be visiting ourparks?

Sandra (36:24):
I mean...
It...
It's the individual's call.
I'm not going to say you shouldor you shouldn't.
Here's what I will say.
There are a lot of people whoare not going to do and who
usually don't do the requisiteinvestigating of a park before

(36:47):
they show up.
I mean, you hear about it allthe time when people show up to
glaciers.
Like, I didn't know there wastimed entry.
I didn't know I was supposed toget a ticket to, you know,
right?
There's going to be enough ofthat already.
And even though you may knowthat the, you know, the park is
understaffed or whatnot, like,what if you fall on the trail?

(37:07):
What if you get into some sortof accident?
What if like, you know,wildlife attacks you or
something, you know?
Lots of things can happen inthe wild.
So, sure, a lot of us areexperiencing like, oh, that
would never happen to me.
You can never say never.
So, My advice is skip the bigparks and go to a small park.

(37:31):
Yeah.
Right.
Most small parks still havetrails and still have, you know,
really great vistas and stuffto walk around.
And except like, if you'regoing to like Thaddeus to
Cochescue in Philadelphia,though you still have to walk
there because there's noparking, but it's the smallest
national park site and there isno greenery, but Philadelphia is
a lovely place to walk around.
Yes.
So, you know, if you get a lotof the same thing, you still get

(37:54):
your flat hats.
You still get your park rangersto talk to you.
You know, you get all thethings.
You're not creating more stresson the infrastructure.
Yeah.
And you're not creating morestress on the park rangers.
I mean, parks like Big Bend,and I may have this wrong, so
don't hold me to it, but, like,my understanding is, like, they
only have, like, 85 parkrangers, like, and that's all

(38:15):
the rangers and staff in BigBend for a park that's the size
of Rhode Island.

Missy (38:20):
Well, and you see the lines that are all over social
media.

Sandra (38:23):
Yeah, three-hour lines to get in.
And so my advice...
is like yeah, our parks needlove right now.
But here's what you get if yougo to a smaller park.
Like instead of going to BigBend, hey, go to Marfa and visit
Blackwell or go to GuadalupeMountains or go to Carlsbad.
Well, Carlsbad Cabins justclosed all their cabin tours

(38:44):
because of the lack of staffing.
But like go to Chamizal in ElPaso because what that does is
that increases theirvisitorship, which then allows
for them to get more funding ifwe continue to have books in
the future.

Missy (38:58):
Exactly.
And I mean, news this week wasthat the visitor numbers were
up.
And so I think, you know, parksare popular.
They are people.

Sandra (39:07):
People go to these parks.
Yeah.
And the one takeaway of likeyou want to know something to
tell your your members ofCongress, relative officials,
it's like there has been a 20percent decrease in funding and
a 16 percent increase invisitation.

Missy (39:20):
Oh, my gosh.
It's crazy.

Sandra (39:23):
OK.
And so that those are thenumbers.
Yeah.

Missy (39:28):
So, okay, now, so we visit parks, be selective about
which ones you're visiting.
What are ways to still supportthe parks if you're not
visiting?

Sandra (39:40):
Sure.
So we talked earlier about theNational Parks Conservation
Association and PCA, and wetalked a little bit about
National Parks Foundation andPF.
Obviously, those aredonor-driven organizations that
you can donate to.
But there's also like thefriends groups and the park
conservancies that do a lot ofwork in the park on the ground

(40:02):
that are grassroots that don'tget the, well, I mean, you know,
like Yellowstone Forever andthe Glacier Conservancy are, you
know, big, sexy parks thatpeople below, but like, you
know, Shenandoah Trust or evenWNPA, the Western National Parks
Association.
They're the folks who run allof the bookstores west of the
Mississippi for a lot of thesmall parks and for Saguaro.
WNPA is the one who putstogether all the educational

(40:26):
opportunities for the parks inthe west.
And so there are lots oforganizations.
If you have a specific parkthat you have an affinity to,
see if they have a friends groupand donate to them.
Donate your time to the friendsgroup.
And, you know, if not, NPCA isalways a good place to to park a
good donation to help us out.

Missy (40:43):
And I also think about your gift giving.
You know, let's make our giftsin 2025 a little bit more
cause-related and buy theT-shirt that you have on or buy
a gift from a national parkstore.

Sandra (40:55):
Sure, absolutely.
And, you know, and I'll justgive a plug to my group one more
time.
For $25 a year, you can be amember of NPCA and you can get a
quarterly magazine specificallyabout national parks that is
nationally award-winning, reallyamazing photography and you get
information about the parksthat we love.
And so buy somebody a giftdonation for National Parks

(41:17):
Magazine.

Missy (41:17):
Yeah, and I'll put a link to that in the bio too.
How should we go aboutplanning?
Every episode we talk about howdo you plan a trip to each
specific park and our approachis going to be a little bit
different for visits when itcomes to planning and what do I
bring and what do I expect?

Sandra (41:34):
Yeah.
Yeah, so a lot of the websitesof the parks have not been
updated because of beingunderstaffed.
So I would highly recommend donot rely solely on nps.gov or
the NPS app at this point.
It may be worth emailing thepark if they have an email or,
you know, asking online tovarious online communities if

(41:56):
folks have been recently, youknow, check out what folks are
saying on the ground or, youknow, you can call the bookstore
and just say, you know, youmight be busy.
I'm busy right now, but can Ihave someone call me back?
I just want to, you know, makesure that I do this right.

Missy (42:09):
Yeah.
And I was thinking, and you seea lot about this of things
like, you know, maybe bring atrash bag and pick up trash
while you're there.

Sandra (42:17):
Oh, absolutely.
going and complaining orwriting a nasty review about

(43:02):
that.
You know, do something nice.
Please make sure that you'rekind to your park rangers.
Yeah.

Missy (43:11):
Yeah.
I totally, I totally agree.
And I just want to telleverybody, I mean, I think,
well, I guess I should firsttouch base.
Do you think we've covered mosteverything that is going on now
and that can be done right now?

Sandra (43:22):
Yes.
Though I do want to throw inone quick anecdote, if I may.

Missy (43:26):
Sure, sure.

Sandra (43:27):
When all this first started going down, I reached
out to a bunch of park rangerfriends just to see how they
were doing and just check in.
And one of them from a SouthFlorida park had messaged me
back and they said, the lines,you know, we lost a bunch of

(43:48):
staff and the lines are prettylong this weekend and visitors
are yelling at us that we'retaking too long and that they
hope that Trump fires us.
And Like my heart is breakingfor these folks who are the most

(44:11):
dedicated patriots that youcould find who have a love of
their job and a love of theircountry and a love of their
parks and the land and thestories and the history.
And they don't deserve this.
And they deserve so muchbetter.

(44:32):
And so, leave no tracepolicies, just be kind to
rangers, to visitors, and toyourself in this process.
That's beautiful.
I

Missy (44:49):
feel like that should be it for this.
I want to remind everybody thatthis is as of Friday, March
14th, and that Sandra and I havemade a commitment to one
another that we will have moreconversations as things evolve.
You can reach and follow Sandraat National Park Patch Lady on

(45:15):
all social platforms.
You can follow the Parkspodcast on all social platforms.
We reshare informationconstantly that we are seeing
from other credible sources.
I encourage you to follow manyothers like the Resistance
Rangers who are doing phenomenalwork and are leaders in what is
happening right now.

(45:36):
So you can find informationthere in the meantime, but we
are both very committed tomaking sure that we help
everybody understand what weknow, to the best of our
ability.
And if you have questions andstuff, ask us and maybe we'll
incorporate it in the nextepisode.
Okay, as we wrap up everyepisode, we do a speed round and

(45:57):
I want to do this with you.
So just answer with what firstcomes to mind.
Okay.
What's your earliest parkmemory?
Gettysburg, 2012.
What made you love the parks?

Sandra (46:10):
Park Rangers.

Missy (46:12):
What is your favorite thing about parks?
Park rangers.
What is your favorite thing todo in a park?
Junior ranger books.
What park have you yet tovisit, but it's on your bucket
list and why?

Sandra (46:25):
The entire upper Midwest.
Because, you know, places likeIsle Royale and Voyagers just
look absolutely epic.
And I just have not gotten toanywhere north of Missouri.

Missy (46:40):
What are three must-haves you pack for a park visit?

Sandra (46:45):
My passport stamp book, I break for brown sign stickers,
and a refillable water bottle.

Missy (46:52):
What is your favorite campfire activity?

Sandra (46:55):
S'mores.

Missy (46:57):
Tent, camper, or cabin?
Tent.
Are you hiking with or withouttrekking poles?

Sandra (47:05):
Always poles.
I'm old.

Missy (47:07):
What is your favorite trail snack?

Sandra (47:11):
Almonds and That's It fruit bars.

Missy (47:15):
What is your best or favorite animal s ighting?

Sandra (47:18):
Oh, the first time I saw a wild honu in Hawaii.
I'd never seen a large turtlelike that.
It was amazing.
Okay.

Missy (47:29):
What is your favorite sound in the park?

Sandra (47:34):
The sound of rustling leaves.

Missy (47:39):
What is the greatest gift that the parks give to us?

Sandra (47:44):
community, hope.

Missy (47:49):
Sandra, thank you for joining us today.
I am so grateful to have metyou, to have had conversation
with you.
I'm grateful to you for being aleader to me and how to lead
this resistance lifestyle thatis new to me.
And so thank you for being heretoday.
Thank

Sandra (48:09):
you.
I appreciate it.
It's my pleasure.

Missy (48:12):
Thanks for listening to today's episode.
Until the next time, we'll seeyou in the parks.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please be sure to like and
share on your favorite podcastplatform.
Music for the Parks podcast iswritten, performed and produced
by Porter Hardy.
For more information, pleasefollow us on Instagram at the

(48:34):
parks podcast, or visit ourwebsite at the parks
podcast.com.