September 10, 2025 • 11 mins
For nearly 25 years, the Roadless Area Conservation Rule has protected nearly 50 million acres of public land. This summer, the agriculture Secretary announced that they would rescind the rule. This would have a significant impact on our public lands. In this episode we learn about the Roadless rule and how to activate to protect our public lands.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Missy Rentz (00:01):
For nearly 25 years, the Roadless Area
Conservation Rule has protectednearly 50 million acres of
public land.
This summer, the agricultureSecretary announced that they
would rescind the rule.
This would have a significantimpact on our public lands.
Join me as we learn about theRoadless rule and how to
(00:22):
activate to protect our publiclands.
I'm your host, Missy Rentz, andthis is the Parks podcast.
Today we have Katie Johnson, whois the campaign and engagement
manager for the ConservationAlliance with us, and Katie is
joining me to talk aboutsomething that is impacting all
of us in America right now,which is the Roadless rule.
(00:45):
Katie, thanks for joining forthis quick conversation to help
educate us, and get us allmoving to advocate for the
Roadless Rule.
Katie (00:53):
Thanks for having me, Missy.
I'm excited to chat about it.
Missy Rentz (00:56):
Okay.
First, if you're on socials oryou're into parks or outdoor
spaces, you have likely heardabout the roadless rule, but
maybe don't know what it is.
So first, what is the Roadlessrule?
I.
Katie (01:11):
Yeah, it's a great question and something that
you've probably seen pop up inyour algorithm in the last
couple of months.
The Roadless rule was enactedin 2001 and it was enacted to
protect undeveloped forestservice land from additional
roads and their consequentlylogging, leasing, road
development, other industrialdevelopment, et cetera.
(01:32):
It's a really popular policythat is one of the most
celebrated of America'sconservation measures especially
over the last 25 years.
And.
In for the last 25 years, it'sprotected wildlife habitat,
safeguarded drinking water formillions of Americans insured
access to recreationallandscapes among many other
pieces.
And another important note isthat it's generally known for
(01:55):
its flexibility while stillproviding meaningful protection.
So if there are existing.
Roads that need to be accessedfor fire or other kind of
emergency services that the ruleis pretty flexible in that way.
So it's already encompassingsome of the things that we're
hearing in terms of why the USDAis looking to roll this back.
Missy Rentz (02:14):
And just to break it down from what I'm hearing
you say, it's a fairly simplerule of saying if you can't
build a road here, you can'truin the public land around it.
Katie (02:26):
Right, exactly.
So it protects that kind ofundisturbed and contiguous those
contiguous tracks of land.
And these inventory roadlessareas or IRAs you'll see on the
internet span across thecountry.
So they are in a lot of statesand we think a lot about.
The West Coast states that havea lot of these areas, but
they're also in North Carolinaand some of our East coast
(02:47):
states too.
There are roadless areas androadless spaces across the
country.
So this is really an issue anda conversation that is being had
across all 50 states right now.
Missy Rentz (02:58):
Why do they wanna roll it back?
Katie (03:00):
So they're looking to roll it back for a number of
reasons.
And right now we're in themiddle of a comment period that
is allowing them to gatherpublic feedback on why they're
looking or what they're lookingto roll it back for, and how
they would potentially moveforward with either rescinding
it or adjusting it, whateverthat may look like.
There's a couple differentfactors including potentially
wildfire management.
(03:21):
Potentially timber, otherextractive industries and their
involvement in this space andthings like that.
But as I mentioned, there isalready flexibility within the
existing rule that accounts forsome of those things.
And that's why the ConservationAlliance is advocating to
protect the roadless rule andkeep it in place and keep
allowing it to do what it'scontinued to do for 25 years.
Missy Rentz (03:42):
To me, it feels like by rolling it back, it's
another loophole to get todeveloping public lands.
And we've already foughtagainst this and had a, a great
win of over the summer, severalgreat wins, but it's just
another way for a certaincontingent to attack our public
lands.
Katie (04:03):
Yeah, so the acreage that's at risk of losing
protections is over 45 millionacres of forest service land
across the country.
And that's a lot of acreage andthat's a lot of.
Land and a lot of neighboringcommunities will be really
impacted by that.
Whether it's a gatewaycommunity or a tribal community,
or an outfitters and guidescommunity, there's a lot of
(04:25):
people that are really dependenton these from both a personal
and business standpoint.
And so rolling back protectionsfor 45 million acres is very
sweeping and that is veryconcerning.
Missy Rentz (04:36):
And so they've opened this comment period, and
this is totally new to me.
It's a set period of time wherewe, the public are able to
comment.
I.
Katie (04:48):
Yes, so we are right about in the middle of a 21 day
comment period, so it opens justbefore Labor Day weekend and is
open until September 29th.
So on regulations.gov there isa number that you can actually
look up or you can type in theroadless rule to find how to
submit a public comment onregulations.gov.
And right now we are in themiddle of what is called a
(05:09):
scoping period.
So the USDA is using thiscomment period to understand
what the public is looking.
What the public input is inproviding details on how this
would impact their personallives or their business lives,
or whatever that may look like.
So we're in the middle of a 21day comment period.
It will close September 19th,and they're accepting comments
currently as we are chatting.
Missy Rentz (05:31):
And that's why it's so important, and I'm really
grateful to you because I wannaget this episode out so that
people can participate in thepublic comments.
So they can go to the websiteand we'll post the website or a
link to the website on the parkspodcast.com, and they can make
comments.
Are there key messages thatneed to be included or that you
(05:56):
advise that people include?
To make it the most impactful.
Okay.
Katie (06:02):
It's a great question and really the personal impact of
these spaces on your life,whether you're a recreator or a
business owner or a communitymember, is going to be.
The most persuasive.
So how do you utilize theseroadless areas?
What do they mean to you?
How have you spent time on thembefore and what would it mean
if those protections were rolledback or these spaces no longer
(06:25):
existed?
Missy Rentz (06:27):
Also, it's about how I use it, like literally how
I use it.
I go hiking, I go hunting, I gofishing, I go biking.
But it's about how the land isused that benefits you.
So for example, you may needto.
Write and talk about how youneed your rivers and streams to
(06:51):
remain clean because of the fishthat you eat.
Katie (06:55):
Right.
It impacts everybody,regardless of if you have
roadless areas right in yourbackyard or not.
It might be places that you'regoing to visit or you might want
to take a vacation to or.
Yes, a business or a communitymight be dependent on those
resources for other things.
So it is, whether it's one ortwo degrees separated, you are
still impacted regardless ofwhere you live and what you like
(07:16):
to do.
And so really everybody isimpacted by this and it will be
a big deal
Missy Rentz (07:22):
So the action that listeners need to take right now
is to go to regulations.gov andfill out the comment form.
Katie (07:33):
We can in the links provide the docket number that
will lead you right to thatcomment so that people can be
directed right there.
We can also link to theconservation alliances.
Grassroots comment platform aswell so folks can submit a
comment.
We actually have a templatedletter that folks can just input
their information on and thenit populates the details of what
(07:55):
might be most important tocomment on, and they could
submit it right through that aswell.
So we can share that too.
We're encouraging our businessnetwork of folks too.
Uplift this effort and showcasewhat the role this role is and
why this is important tobusinesses from their brand, DNA
perspective, but also how dothese businesses get their
employees and their audiencesengaged and involved.
(08:17):
And so this platform that we'reopening up for folks to be able
to submit comments directly tothe site is one of the ways to
do that.
Missy Rentz (08:24):
That's great and that's open now
Katie (08:26):
So that is open during this full comment period.
So open right now and availableto utilize as well.
Missy Rentz (08:32):
Okay, so then after the comment period, should we
still be writing and calling ourrepresentatives, or are those
things valid?
Should we do that?
Should we be holding off?
What is the next step?
Katie (08:45):
It's a great question.
So what we're going to focus onas the comment period closes
from the Conservation Allianceperspective is really.
Highlighting and storytellingfrom these different inventoried
roadless areas across thecountry.
So how do outdoor athletes andcreators and businesses benefit
and or utilize these spaces?
(09:07):
And why are they meaningful tothese folks?
And why would it be criticalfor these to stay protected
versus having these protectionsrolled back and what the
implications could be from that?
So we're really focusing onsuper powerful storytelling,
super powerful.
Highlights of what these spaceshave meant and what they'll
continue to mean when they stayprotected.
Missy Rentz (09:27):
Amazing.
So follow the ConservationAlliance to hear those stories.
The Parks podcast will postlinks to your page so that
people can send letters duringthis open comment period.
But do take time in the next 10days to send that letter and to
make sure that your voice isheard.
(09:49):
To help protect our publiclands and expressing our
dissatisfaction with rollingback roadless rules.
Katie (09:58):
Yeah.
And showcasing, why theselandscapes are important to you
and what they've meant to youand what they'll continue to
mean to you.
It's critical right now, morethan ever.
Missy Rentz (10:06):
Katie, I'm really grateful to you.
Thank you for helping toeducate me and our listeners
during this really crazy time,and I hope that maybe during
this process that we're goingthrough, there may be time for
us to have another conversationto continue educating everybody
on what is going on.
Katie (10:27):
Yeah, it's a very nuanced and very specific conversation,
and we're always happy tohighlight more details.
I think one more note that'simportant to share is that this
is the first step of amulti-step process, submitting
our comments is a great firststep, but we can't then be
caught on our heels for the nextphase.
So whether that's storytellingor waiting for the next comment
period, which we're expecting inabout six or so months this
(10:49):
will be a multi-step process.
And so continuing to stayengaged, continuing to stay
informed and updated on what'sgoing on will be critical for
this especially.
So
Missy Rentz (10:58):
Perfect.
Thank you for talking to ustoday.
I really appreciate it.
Katie (11:03):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Missy Rentz (11:05):
That's it for this quick episode of the Parks
podcast.
Until next time, we'll see youin the parks.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please be sure to like and
share on your favorite podcastplatform.
Music for the parks podcast isperformed and produced by Porter
Hardy.
For more information, pleasefollow us on Instagram at the
(11:26):
parks podcast.
Or visit ourwebsite@theparkspodcast.com.
For nearly 25 years, the Roadless Area
Conservation Rule has protectednearly 50 million acres of
public land.
This summer, the agricultureSecretary announced that they
would rescind the rule.
This would have a significantimpact on our public lands.
Join me as we learn about theRoadless rule and how to
(00:22):
activate to protect our publiclands.
I'm your host, Missy Rentz, andthis is the Parks podcast.
Today we have Katie Johnson, whois the campaign and engagement
manager for the ConservationAlliance with us, and Katie is
joining me to talk aboutsomething that is impacting all
of us in America right now,which is the Roadless rule.
(00:45):
Katie, thanks for joining forthis quick conversation to help
educate us, and get us allmoving to advocate for the
Roadless Rule.
Katie (00:53):
Thanks for having me, Missy.
I'm excited to chat about it.
Missy Rentz (00:56):
Okay.
First, if you're on socials oryou're into parks or outdoor
spaces, you have likely heardabout the roadless rule, but
maybe don't know what it is.
So first, what is the Roadlessrule?
I.
Katie (01:11):
Yeah, it's a great question and something that
you've probably seen pop up inyour algorithm in the last
couple of months.
The Roadless rule was enactedin 2001 and it was enacted to
protect undeveloped forestservice land from additional
roads and their consequentlylogging, leasing, road
development, other industrialdevelopment, et cetera.
(01:32):
It's a really popular policythat is one of the most
celebrated of America'sconservation measures especially
over the last 25 years.
And.
In for the last 25 years, it'sprotected wildlife habitat,
safeguarded drinking water formillions of Americans insured
access to recreationallandscapes among many other
pieces.
And another important note isthat it's generally known for
(01:55):
its flexibility while stillproviding meaningful protection.
So if there are existing.
Roads that need to be accessedfor fire or other kind of
emergency services that the ruleis pretty flexible in that way.
So it's already encompassingsome of the things that we're
hearing in terms of why the USDAis looking to roll this back.
Missy Rentz (02:14):
And just to break it down from what I'm hearing
you say, it's a fairly simplerule of saying if you can't
build a road here, you can'truin the public land around it.
Katie (02:26):
Right, exactly.
So it protects that kind ofundisturbed and contiguous those
contiguous tracks of land.
And these inventory roadlessareas or IRAs you'll see on the
internet span across thecountry.
So they are in a lot of statesand we think a lot about.
The West Coast states that havea lot of these areas, but
they're also in North Carolinaand some of our East coast
(02:47):
states too.
There are roadless areas androadless spaces across the
country.
So this is really an issue anda conversation that is being had
across all 50 states right now.
Missy Rentz (02:58):
Why do they wanna roll it back?
Katie (03:00):
So they're looking to roll it back for a number of
reasons.
And right now we're in themiddle of a comment period that
is allowing them to gatherpublic feedback on why they're
looking or what they're lookingto roll it back for, and how
they would potentially moveforward with either rescinding
it or adjusting it, whateverthat may look like.
There's a couple differentfactors including potentially
wildfire management.
(03:21):
Potentially timber, otherextractive industries and their
involvement in this space andthings like that.
But as I mentioned, there isalready flexibility within the
existing rule that accounts forsome of those things.
And that's why the ConservationAlliance is advocating to
protect the roadless rule andkeep it in place and keep
allowing it to do what it'scontinued to do for 25 years.
Missy Rentz (03:42):
To me, it feels like by rolling it back, it's
another loophole to get todeveloping public lands.
And we've already foughtagainst this and had a, a great
win of over the summer, severalgreat wins, but it's just
another way for a certaincontingent to attack our public
lands.
Katie (04:03):
Yeah, so the acreage that's at risk of losing
protections is over 45 millionacres of forest service land
across the country.
And that's a lot of acreage andthat's a lot of.
Land and a lot of neighboringcommunities will be really
impacted by that.
Whether it's a gatewaycommunity or a tribal community,
or an outfitters and guidescommunity, there's a lot of
(04:25):
people that are really dependenton these from both a personal
and business standpoint.
And so rolling back protectionsfor 45 million acres is very
sweeping and that is veryconcerning.
Missy Rentz (04:36):
And so they've opened this comment period, and
this is totally new to me.
It's a set period of time wherewe, the public are able to
comment.
I.
Katie (04:48):
Yes, so we are right about in the middle of a 21 day
comment period, so it opens justbefore Labor Day weekend and is
open until September 29th.
So on regulations.gov there isa number that you can actually
look up or you can type in theroadless rule to find how to
submit a public comment onregulations.gov.
And right now we are in themiddle of what is called a
(05:09):
scoping period.
So the USDA is using thiscomment period to understand
what the public is looking.
What the public input is inproviding details on how this
would impact their personallives or their business lives,
or whatever that may look like.
So we're in the middle of a 21day comment period.
It will close September 19th,and they're accepting comments
currently as we are chatting.
Missy Rentz (05:31):
And that's why it's so important, and I'm really
grateful to you because I wannaget this episode out so that
people can participate in thepublic comments.
So they can go to the websiteand we'll post the website or a
link to the website on the parkspodcast.com, and they can make
comments.
Are there key messages thatneed to be included or that you
(05:56):
advise that people include?
To make it the most impactful.
Okay.
Katie (06:02):
It's a great question and really the personal impact of
these spaces on your life,whether you're a recreator or a
business owner or a communitymember, is going to be.
The most persuasive.
So how do you utilize theseroadless areas?
What do they mean to you?
How have you spent time on thembefore and what would it mean
if those protections were rolledback or these spaces no longer
(06:25):
existed?
Missy Rentz (06:27):
Also, it's about how I use it, like literally how
I use it.
I go hiking, I go hunting, I gofishing, I go biking.
But it's about how the land isused that benefits you.
So for example, you may needto.
Write and talk about how youneed your rivers and streams to
(06:51):
remain clean because of the fishthat you eat.
Katie (06:55):
Right.
It impacts everybody,regardless of if you have
roadless areas right in yourbackyard or not.
It might be places that you'regoing to visit or you might want
to take a vacation to or.
Yes, a business or a communitymight be dependent on those
resources for other things.
So it is, whether it's one ortwo degrees separated, you are
still impacted regardless ofwhere you live and what you like
(07:16):
to do.
And so really everybody isimpacted by this and it will be
a big deal
Missy Rentz (07:22):
So the action that listeners need to take right now
is to go to regulations.gov andfill out the comment form.
Katie (07:33):
We can in the links provide the docket number that
will lead you right to thatcomment so that people can be
directed right there.
We can also link to theconservation alliances.
Grassroots comment platform aswell so folks can submit a
comment.
We actually have a templatedletter that folks can just input
their information on and thenit populates the details of what
(07:55):
might be most important tocomment on, and they could
submit it right through that aswell.
So we can share that too.
We're encouraging our businessnetwork of folks too.
Uplift this effort and showcasewhat the role this role is and
why this is important tobusinesses from their brand, DNA
perspective, but also how dothese businesses get their
employees and their audiencesengaged and involved.
(08:17):
And so this platform that we'reopening up for folks to be able
to submit comments directly tothe site is one of the ways to
do that.
Missy Rentz (08:24):
That's great and that's open now
Katie (08:26):
So that is open during this full comment period.
So open right now and availableto utilize as well.
Missy Rentz (08:32):
Okay, so then after the comment period, should we
still be writing and calling ourrepresentatives, or are those
things valid?
Should we do that?
Should we be holding off?
What is the next step?
Katie (08:45):
It's a great question.
So what we're going to focus onas the comment period closes
from the Conservation Allianceperspective is really.
Highlighting and storytellingfrom these different inventoried
roadless areas across thecountry.
So how do outdoor athletes andcreators and businesses benefit
and or utilize these spaces?
(09:07):
And why are they meaningful tothese folks?
And why would it be criticalfor these to stay protected
versus having these protectionsrolled back and what the
implications could be from that?
So we're really focusing onsuper powerful storytelling,
super powerful.
Highlights of what these spaceshave meant and what they'll
continue to mean when they stayprotected.
Missy Rentz (09:27):
Amazing.
So follow the ConservationAlliance to hear those stories.
The Parks podcast will postlinks to your page so that
people can send letters duringthis open comment period.
But do take time in the next 10days to send that letter and to
make sure that your voice isheard.
(09:49):
To help protect our publiclands and expressing our
dissatisfaction with rollingback roadless rules.
Katie (09:58):
Yeah.
And showcasing, why theselandscapes are important to you
and what they've meant to youand what they'll continue to
mean to you.
It's critical right now, morethan ever.
Missy Rentz (10:06):
Katie, I'm really grateful to you.
Thank you for helping toeducate me and our listeners
during this really crazy time,and I hope that maybe during
this process that we're goingthrough, there may be time for
us to have another conversationto continue educating everybody
on what is going on.
Katie (10:27):
Yeah, it's a very nuanced and very specific conversation,
and we're always happy tohighlight more details.
I think one more note that'simportant to share is that this
is the first step of amulti-step process, submitting
our comments is a great firststep, but we can't then be
caught on our heels for the nextphase.
So whether that's storytellingor waiting for the next comment
period, which we're expecting inabout six or so months this
(10:49):
will be a multi-step process.
And so continuing to stayengaged, continuing to stay
informed and updated on what'sgoing on will be critical for
this especially.
So
Missy Rentz (10:58):
Perfect.
Thank you for talking to ustoday.
I really appreciate it.
Katie (11:03):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Missy Rentz (11:05):
That's it for this quick episode of the Parks
podcast.
Until next time, we'll see youin the parks.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please be sure to like and
share on your favorite podcastplatform.
Music for the parks podcast isperformed and produced by Porter
Hardy.
For more information, pleasefollow us on Instagram at the
(11:26):
parks podcast.
Or visit ourwebsite@theparkspodcast.com.
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