July 7, 2025 • 33 mins
We want to hear from you! Send us a question or comment.
The addiction debate has divided families for decades: Is it a disease requiring treatment or simply a choice demanding willpower? In this compassionate, straight-talking episode, interventionist Matt Brown cuts through this argument to focus on what actually helps people recover.
Drawing from personal experience and professional expertise, Matt explains why this distinction ultimately matters less than creating the conditions for healing. Using the powerful analogy of trying not to scratch chicken pox, he illustrates how addiction feels from the inside—an overwhelming internal "itch" that temporarily stops when substances are used, regardless of consequences.
The episode explores how addiction changes brain function, particularly affecting reward pathways and decision-making abilities. While the initial use may be voluntary, what follows involves complex neurological changes that compromise choice. Matt differentiates between situational substance use (which some people can stop through willpower alone) and clinical addiction (which requires comprehensive treatment).
Most powerfully, Matt identifies shame as the true killer in addiction—preventing both addicts and families from seeking help. He offers a practical framework for approaching loved ones that transcends the disease/choice debate: creating hope that sustainable change is possible while acknowledging consequences.
Whether you're struggling yourself or supporting someone through addiction, this episode provides clarity, compassion, and concrete next steps. Subscribe for more insights on navigating addiction with both boundaries and love, and join Matt's free nightly support calls at interventiononcall.com for personalized guidance.
Join us Every Sunday at 8:00 PM PST and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday Night at 8:00 PM EST/5:00PST for a FREE family support group. Register at the following link to get the zoom information sent to you: Family Support Meeting
About our sponsor(s):
Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist. While a professional intervention can be a powerful experience for change, not every family needs a professionally led intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professional intervention, we can help. Hour sessions are $150.
Therapy is a very important way to take care of your mental health. This can happen from the comfort of your own home or office. If you need therapy and want to get a discount on your first month of services please try Better Help.
If you want to know more about the host's private practice please visit:
Matt Brown: Freedom Interventions
Follow the host on TikTok
Matt: @mattbrowninterventionist
If you have a question that we can answer on the show, please email us at matt@partywreckers.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
seasoned addictioninterventionist, Matt Brown.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism.
(00:22):
Perhaps they are reluctant toget the help that they need.
We are here to educate andentertain you while removing the
fear from the conversation.
Stick with us and we will getyou through it.
Welcome the original partywrecker, Matt Brown.
(00:42):
Original Party Wrecker, MattBrown.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Welcome back to another episode of the Party
Wreckers podcast.
My name is Matt Brown.
I'm your host.
Thank you for being here.
I'm glad you've joined me.
If this is your first time,welcome.
The purpose of this podcast isto really help families have a
different kind of conversationwith their addicted loved ones.
I want to equip families withsome tools and some vocabulary
(01:10):
and some knowledge and someeducation so that you can have a
different kind of conversationwith your loved one who's
struggling with addiction, whomay be reluctant to get some
help for themselves, who may notsee the problem for how it
really is, or at least the waythat you're able to see it, and
so to really move thisconversation in a direction that
(01:33):
leads to healing and hope.
If you're coming back andyou've listened to episodes
before and you're here again,thank you.
I appreciate you enduringanother episode of listening to
me drone on, so thanks for beinghere Today.
I want to talk about kind ofthis age-old argument of whether
(01:54):
or not addiction is a choice ora disease.
Before I jump into that, I justwant to remind everybody that
Sunday through Thursday thereare nightly Zoom calls for
families who have loved one inactive addiction, If you go to
intervention on call.
They're completely free.
(02:14):
It's an hour each evening,Sunday through Thursday, where
we answer questions and givefamilies new strategy and new
tools to be able to help theiraddicted loved ones.
Very similar to what thepurpose of this podcast is.
We just move it into a venuewhere we can interact with one
another on a Zoom call.
So register atinterventiononcallcom if you
(02:35):
want to be a part of that.
So let me say first of all thatwhether or not you believe
addiction is a disease orwhether you believe it's a
choice, that's okay.
I'm not here to try to convinceyou one way or the other.
I think this is an argumentthat could go round and round
(02:58):
and round for as long as we wantto debate it.
My response typically to thisand I'll say this from the
outset is who cares whether it'sa disease or whether it's a
choice.
The fact of the matter is wehave somebody in your family
who's struggling with anaddiction, and whether or not
it's a choice or whether or notit's a disease doesn't really
(03:18):
move the conversation in adifferent direction.
Now what I will say is thathaving some context for this can
actually be something that canunite a family that otherwise
may be divided.
It can provide a little bitmore compassion for people who
are struggling with addiction inthe way that this conversation
(03:40):
happens.
But I don't want to get stuckin the argument, if that makes
sense.
So I don't want the outcome ofthis episode to be hey, we got
to put everybody in the samecamp.
That is not what I'm trying todo.
I personally believe it's adisease.
You don't have to agree with me.
I'm going to talk aboutarguments from each side of the
(04:04):
topic here for just a minute.
I want to start by, you know,making the argument that
addiction is a choice, andthere's several factors that you
know in my private practice asan interventionist, as I work
with families on intervention oncall, sometimes the thing that
divides families more thananything is you get some family
(04:27):
members that are looking at thisfrom the standpoint of this is
a disease.
It needs to be treated.
It needs to have some medicalcomponents to it, it needs to
have some behavioral components,some therapeutic components.
And then you have some otherfamily members that are saying
why can't he just stop?
This is a choice.
He just needs to choose to stop.
He doesn't need treatment.
He, this is a choice.
He just needs to choose to stop.
He doesn't need treatment, hedoesn't need meetings, he just
(04:48):
needs to stop.
And so I think, when it comesto the debate on whether it's a
choice or whether it's a disease, this is where I see that it
becomes the most important,where it becomes the division in
a support system that preventssomebody from moving forward and
actually getting their lovedone the help that they need.
(05:09):
And so I think that's theimportant thing that I really
want to get to today is let'sfind a way to make this issue
not as relevant or not asimportant in the conversation,
so that more families are ableto move forward in a united way
(05:30):
and get their loved ones somehelp.
So let's talk about addictionbeing a choice first.
Obviously, the first argumentthat most people will make is
they chose to start using drugsin the first place.
You know what?
I'll give you that point.
I think that, from thestandpoint of, do I have freedom
(05:50):
of choice to make the decisionon whether or not I'm going to
start using drugs or alcohol?
Absolutely.
When I had my first drink inhigh school, I had a choice as
to whether or not I was going todo that Now.
When I did it and I felt therelief that came from taking
(06:17):
that drink, it was immediatelyapparent to me that this was
more than just catching a buzz.
This was relief that I hadn'tfound in any other solution up
to that point.
But I did have a choice.
Did I make the choice to drinkthe first time?
(06:38):
Did I make the choice to smokepot the first time?
Or do cocaine ormethamphetamines or all the
other substances that I didalong the way, absolutely so.
So there's that part of it thatI think a lot of people focus on
and say well, they're makingthe choice.
If they made the choice thefirst time, they're making the
choice every single other timethat they're choosing to do this
.
We won't argue that right now,we'll just kind of let that sit
(07:01):
there.
We'll just kind of let that sitthere.
There's this idea that, well,if they can go to work, if they
can show up and be responsiblein other areas of their life,
why is this one area that theyhave can't choose whether or not
(07:22):
they're going to use or drink?
Going forward, they're able togo to work, they're able to earn
a paycheck, they're able toshow up and be responsible in
other areas of their life whynot this one?
To the outside person, whoreally doesn't understand what
addiction feels like and I wantto really talk about how it
feels.
And some of you guys may haveheard me use this analogy before
(07:45):
, but for those of us that areold enough to have had chicken
pox when we're kids, I remembermy mom sent us down the street.
One of the neighbor kids hadchicken pox.
Me and my five brothers andsisters got sent down the street
and we had a little chicken poxparty and we all came back and
within the next couple of dayswe were all coming down with the
chicken pox and she just wantedus to go and knock it out have
(08:09):
to deal with, even though therewere six of us.
It's like let's just get it allover and done with and then,
and then we don't have to worryabout it anymore.
But I remember, and if your momwas like my mom, you heard over
and over and over again stopscratching.
You're going to get scars, it'sgoing to get infected, you're
going to have consequences thatyou don't want to have later on
(08:31):
if you keep scratching.
And as an 11-year-old12-year-old, however old I was
when I got the chickenpox, atthe time I didn't care about the
(08:58):
consequences.
I just knew that I had atremendous need to scratch an
itch.
That itch was going to getscratched, and so I struggled
because I didn't care about whocares if I get scars, who cares
if I get an infection.
I know that's probably notgoing to happen right this
minute, and right this minute Ineed to scratch this itch.
And so at first she startedputting socks on my hands.
(09:21):
Well, I just pulled them offand kept scratching.
Well, then it was the ovenmitts that got taped on my hands
.
I just chew through the ovenmitts and keep scratching.
With somebody who's strugglingwith an addiction, the itch is
on the inside.
It's a mental itch, it's anemotional itch, and when I
learned that I could scratchthat itch with a substance and
(09:42):
the itching stopped, I didn'tcare what the consequences were.
I just knew that I had foundthe solution to my problem, or
at least I thought I had,because it brought me some
relief.
And so when you see somebodythat is showing up in different
areas of their life, it doesn'tmean that they're not
(10:02):
experiencing a tremendous amountof internal itch.
They may not scratch it untilfive or six o'clock in the
evening.
They may know, hey, if I dothis during the day, I might
lose my job, and so it may havenot gotten to that point where
they're willing to compromise onevery aspect of their life.
(10:23):
Yet what I have learned is that, given enough time and a long
enough timeline that thosecompromises will happen, because
the itch does not diminish overtime, it gets worse.
Now there's this argument to bemade for personal responsibility
.
There's this argument to bemade for personal responsibility
(10:47):
and I think that this is bigboth in the disease model camp
and in the choice model camp.
I think personal responsibility, the argument is there for both
schools of thought, and that isif you can take accountability
and pull yourself up by yourbootstraps and recognize, hey,
I'm doing something here that Ishouldn't be doing, and I just I
(11:09):
want to exercise some willpowerhere and really take
responsibility for how my lifeis going, that you're going to
find your way out of it.
Now here's what I'll say.
Some people can do that.
Some people can make thedecision to stop and they never
look back.
Most of us cannot, and what Iwould compare this to is kind of
(11:32):
the idea around situationaldepression and clinical
depression.
Because of a situation, theconsequences begin to pile up
(11:57):
and, given enough consequencesand the proper motivation from
external sources, that personcould say you know what, I don't
want to do this anymore, I'mgoing to quit.
And because of the fact thatit's a situational type of you
know whether it's a divorce or aloss of a job or you know
whatever caused that momentaryrelief-seeking in substances,
(12:18):
the consequences become sosevere that I don't want to do
this anymore and they'll makethe decision I'm going to stop.
And they don't look back.
By and large, most of us thatget into this situation it's
kind of like clinical depression.
No matter how much willpower Itry to exercise into being
(12:40):
positive and coming out of mydepression, I need medical
treatment to deal with mydepression on a daily basis.
Those of us with clinicaldepression or clinical anything
anxiety, bipolar disorder,whatever it is.
It's not a matter of, hey, I'mgoing to will myself to be happy
, or I'm going to will myself tobe less anxious, or I'm going
(13:01):
to will myself to not havebipolar disorder or borderline
personality disorder.
It's not a matter of willpower.
There needs to be sometreatment involved.
Sometimes that treatmentinvolves therapy, sometimes it
involves psychiatry andmedications.
Sometimes it's all of the above, the response to incentives
(13:28):
like the negative consequences.
It's when the consequences getsignificant enough I'm going to
change my behavior.
With somebody who has, let'scall it clinical alcoholism or
clinical addiction, theconsequences will begin to mount
and my behavior doesn't changebecause willpower alone is not
(13:53):
going to be enough to pull meout of that.
I may recognize that that's notwhat I want anymore, but that
internal itch, that mental andemotional itch, is still there
and has not been treated.
And so this idea that I canexercise willpower, or that I
can just exercise, you know, atremendous amount of
self-control.
(14:13):
And stop doing this.
Occasionally you'll seesomebody who can stop drinking
or stop using drugs, but thenext thing you know they're
getting into gambling or they'rehaving an issue with food.
Like you know, when I got soberI gained a tremendous amount of
weight.
I knew I didn't want to drinkanymore, but I hadn't treated
(14:33):
that internal condition yet, andfood became my new drug of
choice.
And so we'll see crossaddictions beginning to happen.
Sometimes it's pornography orsex, or gambling, or exercise,
or work, or you know whatever itis, or work, or you know
whatever it is.
But it just becomes a game ofwhack-a-mole where we may
(14:53):
curtail one behavior only to seea new one pop up, or one that
you know used to be there becomemore prominent.
And it's not necessarily thatI'm dealing with an addiction,
I'm just switching from one toanother.
Let's talk a little bit abouthealthy brain function, because
(15:16):
I think this is really important.
When you look at how a healthybrain functions, there are
certain reward mechanisms in thebrain.
When we do healthy things, anormal healthy brain will reward
us with feeling good.
When I exercise, when I eathealthy, when I spend time with
(15:40):
people that are loving and kind,and I get something out of
those relationships when Iachieve a goal, you know those
kinds of things Like my brainknows to reward those behaviors.
A healthy brain knows to rewardthose behaviors.
There's also a mechanism in ahealthy brain that's there to
(16:02):
warn us hey, this is risky, thisis dangerous, you should not do
this.
If you do this, this is likelyto happen and fear will tell me
don't do that.
And then there's these grayareas where it's like, well,
there is risk, but there'sreward.
And so I need to rationallykind of think through does the
(16:25):
risk outweigh the reward or doesthe reward outweigh the risk?
And that's where the prefrontalcortex comes in and really kind
of helps us to make a lot ofthose executive decisions in
terms of is this something Ishould do or not?
And we're able to really, in amuch more logical way, usually
think through how our choicesand our actions are going to
(16:47):
impact us down the line.
When you deal with somebodywho's in active addiction, those
mechanisms get really, reallymessed up.
What ordinarily the pleasurecenters of the brain or the
reward centers of the brain.
They're not rewarding thehealthy behaviors anymore.
(17:09):
Sometimes it's an environmentalfactor.
Sometimes the person strugglingwith an addiction doesn't have
experiences in healthy behaviors.
They weren't taught healthybehaviors because they grew up
in a very dysfunctional system.
There was abuse, there wasneglect, there was abandonment,
there was all kinds ofdysfunction going on, and the
(17:30):
wiring that happens in our earlyyouth never really happened for
that person and so it nevertook hold in the first place.
And a lot of these copingstrategies were developed at a
very early age and addictionbecomes just kind of a natural
progression of that.
Becomes just kind of a naturalprogression of that.
(17:54):
And you know, I talked a littlebit about this in the last
episode when it came to screenaddiction and technology
addiction, where young peopleare getting a hold of devices at
a much earlier age and even,you know, I say earlier than my
generation.
The internet didn't even existuntil I was in college, and so
emails, those kinds of things,that was cutting edge technology
(18:15):
when I was in college.
Now my kids get access to thesedopamine hits on a regular
basis when they're on theirphones, whether it's social
media, whether it's games,whether it's, you know, 60
second videos on YouTube.
All of this is designed to hitthose dopamine centers and those
reward centers of the brain, tokeep that person engaged.
(18:37):
And we see that as thedevelopment happens down the
line and they get exposed toopportunities to use drugs and
to use alcohols, and thosealcohol and those dopamine hits
become more pronounced than whatthey'd even experienced before.
It's just kind of that naturalprogression of.
(18:57):
I'm going to continue to goafter this instant gratification
.
Now, sometimes the environmentalfactors are overwhelmingly
contributory to what's going on.
Sometimes it's a geneticcomponent.
Sometimes it's generationaltrauma that becomes not only
(19:19):
genetic but also environmental.
There's so many differentfactors that we have to
attribute to this.
It's not as cut and dry as thisperson's going to become
addicted because they'regenetically predisposed to this
and we can identify that there'sgenes that they have that are
active, that maybe in somebodyelse are dormant.
It's not as simple as that.
There is no gene that peoplecan identify to say, okay, this
(19:43):
is the gene for addiction.
Gabor Mate really talks aboutthis in one of his more recent
books, about how it's not thatsomebody is genetically
predisposed to addiction.
It's that they're wired to be,to be more sensitive than than
other people on an emotionallevel.
And then the environmentalfactors that that that hit that
(20:07):
sensitivity will largelydetermine whether that becomes
an asset or a liability.
You know, am I going to look touse this sensitivity as a way
to inform my empathy andcompassion towards other people,
or will I want to run away fromthese feelings in a way that
(20:27):
causes me to seek out chemicalsubstitutes to avoid those
feelings.
So there's no genetic markerfor addiction.
There's no gene that says, hey,this person's going to become
addicted, but there is a geneticcomponent to it.
That's indisputable.
The bigger factors, of course,are the environmental ones.
(20:49):
How know, how informed is thisperson from a young age about
the risks associated with drugand alcohol use?
How informed are they in termsof how their choices affect
consequences?
Education is a big part of thisand this is why I spend so much
time educating families,because we're so behind the
(21:10):
curve.
There's such a stigma out therethat is so strong when it comes
to addiction and alcoholism.
Our society really looks atthis.
Even though many of us willlook at this and say, oh,
addiction is a disease, there'sthis moral stigma that gets
attached to it.
We can't completely separatethe fact that this is a medical
disease and not a moral issue.
(21:33):
Even though somebody can say,oh, that person has the disease
of addiction, there's still thispall of stigma that hangs over
a lot of the people thatstruggle with this.
I experienced this in my ownlife.
I remember, after I had gottensober, I had told my parents
(21:53):
that I I'd been going to AA, andI remember the reaction from my
dad was you're an alcoholic.
And even though he knew that Iwas, I had a very severe
drinking problem and I had avery severe drug problem.
The idea that I would use theword alcoholic to define what I
(22:14):
was struggling with was almostinconceivable for him.
There was this association withsomebody who's an alcoholic is
a bad person.
It really took a lot for me toget out from under that early on
, because I didn't want to haveto call myself an alcoholic, I
didn't want to have to identifyas an addict because I had grown
(22:37):
up in an environment wherethose words were, those were
awful things to be associatedwith.
And I think that that happensin many, many homes.
And so we can say, oh,addiction is a disease.
But until we can really look atit objectively and say, okay,
this person is struggling with adisease, let's treat it versus
(22:59):
good or bad or morally, there'ssome sort of an assignment given
to the quality of somebody andtheir character, based on
whether or not they're alcoholicor an addict.
We have to find a way throughthat, because I think the shame
that gets associated with that,the shame that gets projected
(23:21):
onto the alcoholic and theaddict, and the shame that I
absorb or put on myself becauseof some of the choices that I
made during my addiction.
I think that's really the thingthat kills people.
We can look at it and say, oh,it's drunk driving, accidents,
it's DUIs, it's overdoses.
But if the shame wasn't there,would those people have gotten
(23:45):
help before it ever got to thatpoint?
And I think the answer is yes.
I think that we've got to finda way to have a different
conversation.
Now back to the point.
The American Society ofAddiction Medicine defines
addiction as a primary chronicdisease of brain, reward,
motivation, memory and relatedcircuitry.
(24:05):
It is characterized bycompulsive drug seeking and use
despite negative consequences.
So, even though theconsequences are starting to
mount and we talked a little bitabout this when we were kind of
making the argument foraddiction being a choice as the
consequences start to mount,it's like from the outside,
(24:27):
looking in, people are lookingat this, going.
Why can't he just stop?
This is crazy.
He's going to jail, he's losinghis family.
There's so many things thatthis person is losing, including
(24:49):
his health, his self-esteem.
Why can't he just stop?
And what I'll say is no onewakes up with a life of
addiction and says yes, this isexactly what I wanted when I was
a little boy and somebody askedme what I wanted to be.
When I grew up, this is what Ihad in mind.
I wanted to be homeless.
I wanted to be penniless.
I wanted to be without friendsor family around me.
I wanted to hurt the feelingsof anyone that ever cared about
me.
I wanted to take advantage andmanipulate and deceive everyone
(25:12):
in my life.
Nobody wakes up and says that,but what happens is, as this
disease takes hold of us, all ofthose things begin to happen.
And it's not because we'rechoosing that.
It's because the disease takeshold and we're no longer in
(25:33):
control of what happens next.
I'm no longer in control of myability to say no anymore.
I'm no longer in control of myability to say no anymore.
The craziest thing we do whenwe're in active addiction, we do
in a completely sober state ofmind, and that, given the
abundance of consequences.
That said that I should not goout and do this again.
(25:54):
I will, because I will somehowconvince myself that this time
it's going to be different.
And here's how I'm going to doit differently, and here's how
I'm going to avoid some of theconsequences that I've been
having lately, and I'm going tooutthink this thing.
I've got a guy that I recentlydid an intervention on, who's in
treatment right now, who istrying to convince his family.
(26:16):
Hey, you know what?
I think it's just the substancethat I was using, because he
was using a substance andalcohol.
I think the substance was theproblem.
I think I could probably drinklike a normal person, as long as
I don't go back to using thatsubstance.
And that's the insanity ofaddiction is that I'm willing to
risk everything that is infront of me, all the potential,
(26:39):
all the relationships, all ofthose things that are in front
of me right now.
I'm willing to risk thatbecause I think I can have a
healthy relationship withalcohol, or I think I can have a
healthy relationship with asubstance.
It's absolutely insane, but yetwe will convince ourselves that
it's possible.
And that is where the diseaseof addiction lives.
(27:02):
It's in the brain, it's inthese delusional thoughts that
somehow I can do this in adifferent way.
Somehow I can do this in aresponsible way, that I can
drink like people who are notalcoholic or addicted, because
Because we remember when it feltgood, we remember when the
(27:24):
relief was there.
We have such an ability toforget the consequences.
We have such an ability toforget the negative things that
happen Almost as immediately asthey're over, we will somehow
convince ourselves that it'sgoing to go back to being good
again, and that's the insanityof this problem, that's the
(27:44):
insanity of this.
And so whether or not youbelieve addiction is a disease
or whether or not you believeit's a choice, honestly it
doesn't matter.
What I do know is that medicinehas not been able to produce a
medication.
Medicine has not been able toproduce a medication.
(28:05):
Therapists have not been ableto produce a specific type of
therapy that eliminates thisproblem.
It requires what we call inrecovery, a complete psychic
change.
We have to change the way wesee ourselves.
We have to change the way wesee how we fit into the world,
and that is not an easy process,but it's also not a difficult
(28:28):
process it requires.
The hard part about it is thatit requires a tremendous amount
of humility, and it requires atremendous amount of willingness
to say okay is it possible thatI've been wrong?
Willingness to say okay, is itpossible that I've been wrong?
Is it possible that I haven'tlooked at this with honest eyes?
And, when it comes right downto it, regardless of whether you
(28:51):
see this as a disease orwhether you see this as a choice
.
Moving from addiction intorecovery involves two factors.
People will only change whenthey've begun to experience some
negative consequences as aresult of their drinking and
drug use.
That has to be present.
If I'm not experiencingnegative consequences,
(29:14):
regardless of what everybodyelse sees in my life, if I can't
identify that there's somenegative consequences going on,
I'm probably not going to bemotivated to change.
But here's the other thing andthis is the most important thing
is that there has to be hopeand some optimism that change is
possible and it's sustainable.
(29:34):
Because when I just get pointedout hey, you need help, you
need to do this, you'reexperiencing some consequences,
it's happening all over again,can't you see?
That is not enough to createlasting change.
And that's the most importantpart of the intervention process
(29:54):
when I'm working with familiesis the consequences are pretty
easy to identify, even to theperson that we're intervening on
.
The consequences are prettyeasy to identify, even to the
person that we're intervening on.
But unless we can create somehope that change is possible and
sustainable and that life canget better as a result of moving
into recovery.
That person is not going to doit, and so, as you guys are
(30:18):
thinking about having newconversations with your loved
ones, if you're thinking about,hey, how do I approach this
differently, it's not about youneed to do this or you need to
go to treatment or you need toget help.
They know that.
They know that things need tochange.
What we have to do is createhope.
(31:08):
No-transcript is shame.
Shame on the part of theindividual who's addicted,
because I don't want to have toconfront the fact that I've hurt
people and I've made a mess ofmy life and there's a lot of
cleanup that I've got to do.
And shame on the part of thefamily because they don't see
(31:32):
this as they can't remove thejudgment from the equation.
I don't want to have toconfront the fact that I have an
addict in my home equation.
I don't want to have toconfront the fact that I have an
addict in my home.
I don't want to have toconfront the fact that I have
been contributory to that in myenabling of the addiction.
My motives have been loving, mymotives have been pure, but
I've enabled that and I don'twant to have to confront that,
(31:54):
and so we have to get the stigmaremoved out of this.
We have to be able to see thisin a different way and I
challenge each and every one ofyou to start looking into some
resources.
You don't have to be a part ofwhat I'm a part of.
This isn't me trying tonecessarily promote myself or my
services or even the freeservices offered at Intervention
(32:16):
on Call.
Go to an Al-Anon meeting, go toan R-Anon meeting, go to an
alan on meeting, go to an arnonmeeting, go to an an aca meeting
.
Um, there, get into therapy.
Like.
There's so many differentresources that are out there.
One of the sponsors of thispodcast that I don't really talk
about very often is better helpif you need to get into therapy
and you haven't been able tofind a therapist.
(32:37):
If you go to betterhelpcom partyrecords, you get a discount on
your first month of onlinetherapy.
You can switch therapists asoften as you go to betterhelpcom
slash partywreckers you get adiscount on your first month of
online therapy.
You can switch therapists asoften as you need to.
There are so many resources outthere that families can use to
begin moving this conversationin a different way, and I just
implore you to not let fearparalyze you to the point where
(33:01):
it compromises your loved one,to a point where they're not
going to be able to get helpdown the line.
I'm here to help.
I would love to hear from youguys.
If you have questions, email meat matt at partyrecordscom.
I really appreciate you makingit all the way to the end of
this episode.
If there's anything I can do tohelp you guys, let me know, and
until then I hope your lovedone will get sober and stay
(33:21):
sober.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(33:49):
don't enable addiction ever.
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
seasoned addictioninterventionist, Matt Brown.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism.
(00:22):
Perhaps they are reluctant toget the help that they need.
We are here to educate andentertain you while removing the
fear from the conversation.
Stick with us and we will getyou through it.
Welcome the original partywrecker, Matt Brown.
(00:42):
Original Party Wrecker, MattBrown.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Welcome back to another episode of the Party
Wreckers podcast.
My name is Matt Brown.
I'm your host.
Thank you for being here.
I'm glad you've joined me.
If this is your first time,welcome.
The purpose of this podcast isto really help families have a
different kind of conversationwith their addicted loved ones.
I want to equip families withsome tools and some vocabulary
(01:10):
and some knowledge and someeducation so that you can have a
different kind of conversationwith your loved one who's
struggling with addiction, whomay be reluctant to get some
help for themselves, who may notsee the problem for how it
really is, or at least the waythat you're able to see it, and
so to really move thisconversation in a direction that
(01:33):
leads to healing and hope.
If you're coming back andyou've listened to episodes
before and you're here again,thank you.
I appreciate you enduringanother episode of listening to
me drone on, so thanks for beinghere Today.
I want to talk about kind ofthis age-old argument of whether
(01:54):
or not addiction is a choice ora disease.
Before I jump into that, I justwant to remind everybody that
Sunday through Thursday thereare nightly Zoom calls for
families who have loved one inactive addiction, If you go to
intervention on call.
They're completely free.
(02:14):
It's an hour each evening,Sunday through Thursday, where
we answer questions and givefamilies new strategy and new
tools to be able to help theiraddicted loved ones.
Very similar to what thepurpose of this podcast is.
We just move it into a venuewhere we can interact with one
another on a Zoom call.
So register atinterventiononcallcom if you
(02:35):
want to be a part of that.
So let me say first of all thatwhether or not you believe
addiction is a disease orwhether you believe it's a
choice, that's okay.
I'm not here to try to convinceyou one way or the other.
I think this is an argumentthat could go round and round
(02:58):
and round for as long as we wantto debate it.
My response typically to thisand I'll say this from the
outset is who cares whether it'sa disease or whether it's a
choice.
The fact of the matter is wehave somebody in your family
who's struggling with anaddiction, and whether or not
it's a choice or whether or notit's a disease doesn't really
(03:18):
move the conversation in adifferent direction.
Now what I will say is thathaving some context for this can
actually be something that canunite a family that otherwise
may be divided.
It can provide a little bitmore compassion for people who
are struggling with addiction inthe way that this conversation
(03:40):
happens.
But I don't want to get stuckin the argument, if that makes
sense.
So I don't want the outcome ofthis episode to be hey, we got
to put everybody in the samecamp.
That is not what I'm trying todo.
I personally believe it's adisease.
You don't have to agree with me.
I'm going to talk aboutarguments from each side of the
(04:04):
topic here for just a minute.
I want to start by, you know,making the argument that
addiction is a choice, andthere's several factors that you
know in my private practice asan interventionist, as I work
with families on intervention oncall, sometimes the thing that
divides families more thananything is you get some family
(04:27):
members that are looking at thisfrom the standpoint of this is
a disease.
It needs to be treated.
It needs to have some medicalcomponents to it, it needs to
have some behavioral components,some therapeutic components.
And then you have some otherfamily members that are saying
why can't he just stop?
This is a choice.
He just needs to choose to stop.
He doesn't need treatment.
He, this is a choice.
He just needs to choose to stop.
He doesn't need treatment, hedoesn't need meetings, he just
(04:48):
needs to stop.
And so I think, when it comesto the debate on whether it's a
choice or whether it's a disease, this is where I see that it
becomes the most important,where it becomes the division in
a support system that preventssomebody from moving forward and
actually getting their lovedone the help that they need.
(05:09):
And so I think that's theimportant thing that I really
want to get to today is let'sfind a way to make this issue
not as relevant or not asimportant in the conversation,
so that more families are ableto move forward in a united way
(05:30):
and get their loved ones somehelp.
So let's talk about addictionbeing a choice first.
Obviously, the first argumentthat most people will make is
they chose to start using drugsin the first place.
You know what?
I'll give you that point.
I think that, from thestandpoint of, do I have freedom
(05:50):
of choice to make the decisionon whether or not I'm going to
start using drugs or alcohol?
Absolutely.
When I had my first drink inhigh school, I had a choice as
to whether or not I was going todo that Now.
When I did it and I felt therelief that came from taking
(06:17):
that drink, it was immediatelyapparent to me that this was
more than just catching a buzz.
This was relief that I hadn'tfound in any other solution up
to that point.
But I did have a choice.
Did I make the choice to drinkthe first time?
(06:38):
Did I make the choice to smokepot the first time?
Or do cocaine ormethamphetamines or all the
other substances that I didalong the way, absolutely so.
So there's that part of it thatI think a lot of people focus on
and say well, they're makingthe choice.
If they made the choice thefirst time, they're making the
choice every single other timethat they're choosing to do this
.
We won't argue that right now,we'll just kind of let that sit
(07:01):
there.
We'll just kind of let that sitthere.
There's this idea that, well,if they can go to work, if they
can show up and be responsiblein other areas of their life,
why is this one area that theyhave can't choose whether or not
(07:22):
they're going to use or drink?
Going forward, they're able togo to work, they're able to earn
a paycheck, they're able toshow up and be responsible in
other areas of their life whynot this one?
To the outside person, whoreally doesn't understand what
addiction feels like and I wantto really talk about how it
feels.
And some of you guys may haveheard me use this analogy before
(07:45):
, but for those of us that areold enough to have had chicken
pox when we're kids, I remembermy mom sent us down the street.
One of the neighbor kids hadchicken pox.
Me and my five brothers andsisters got sent down the street
and we had a little chicken poxparty and we all came back and
within the next couple of dayswe were all coming down with the
chicken pox and she just wantedus to go and knock it out have
(08:09):
to deal with, even though therewere six of us.
It's like let's just get it allover and done with and then,
and then we don't have to worryabout it anymore.
But I remember, and if your momwas like my mom, you heard over
and over and over again stopscratching.
You're going to get scars, it'sgoing to get infected, you're
going to have consequences thatyou don't want to have later on
(08:31):
if you keep scratching.
And as an 11-year-old12-year-old, however old I was
when I got the chickenpox, atthe time I didn't care about the
(08:58):
consequences.
I just knew that I had atremendous need to scratch an
itch.
That itch was going to getscratched, and so I struggled
because I didn't care about whocares if I get scars, who cares
if I get an infection.
I know that's probably notgoing to happen right this
minute, and right this minute Ineed to scratch this itch.
And so at first she startedputting socks on my hands.
(09:21):
Well, I just pulled them offand kept scratching.
Well, then it was the ovenmitts that got taped on my hands
.
I just chew through the ovenmitts and keep scratching.
With somebody who's strugglingwith an addiction, the itch is
on the inside.
It's a mental itch, it's anemotional itch, and when I
learned that I could scratchthat itch with a substance and
(09:42):
the itching stopped, I didn'tcare what the consequences were.
I just knew that I had foundthe solution to my problem, or
at least I thought I had,because it brought me some
relief.
And so when you see somebodythat is showing up in different
areas of their life, it doesn'tmean that they're not
(10:02):
experiencing a tremendous amountof internal itch.
They may not scratch it untilfive or six o'clock in the
evening.
They may know, hey, if I dothis during the day, I might
lose my job, and so it may havenot gotten to that point where
they're willing to compromise onevery aspect of their life.
(10:23):
Yet what I have learned is that, given enough time and a long
enough timeline that thosecompromises will happen, because
the itch does not diminish overtime, it gets worse.
Now there's this argument to bemade for personal responsibility
.
There's this argument to bemade for personal responsibility
(10:47):
and I think that this is bigboth in the disease model camp
and in the choice model camp.
I think personal responsibility, the argument is there for both
schools of thought, and that isif you can take accountability
and pull yourself up by yourbootstraps and recognize, hey,
I'm doing something here that Ishouldn't be doing, and I just I
(11:09):
want to exercise some willpowerhere and really take
responsibility for how my lifeis going, that you're going to
find your way out of it.
Now here's what I'll say.
Some people can do that.
Some people can make thedecision to stop and they never
look back.
Most of us cannot, and what Iwould compare this to is kind of
(11:32):
the idea around situationaldepression and clinical
depression.
Because of a situation, theconsequences begin to pile up
(11:57):
and, given enough consequencesand the proper motivation from
external sources, that personcould say you know what, I don't
want to do this anymore, I'mgoing to quit.
And because of the fact thatit's a situational type of you
know whether it's a divorce or aloss of a job or you know
whatever caused that momentaryrelief-seeking in substances,
(12:18):
the consequences become sosevere that I don't want to do
this anymore and they'll makethe decision I'm going to stop.
And they don't look back.
By and large, most of us thatget into this situation it's
kind of like clinical depression.
No matter how much willpower Itry to exercise into being
(12:40):
positive and coming out of mydepression, I need medical
treatment to deal with mydepression on a daily basis.
Those of us with clinicaldepression or clinical anything
anxiety, bipolar disorder,whatever it is.
It's not a matter of, hey, I'mgoing to will myself to be happy
, or I'm going to will myself tobe less anxious, or I'm going
(13:01):
to will myself to not havebipolar disorder or borderline
personality disorder.
It's not a matter of willpower.
There needs to be sometreatment involved.
Sometimes that treatmentinvolves therapy, sometimes it
involves psychiatry andmedications.
Sometimes it's all of the above, the response to incentives
(13:28):
like the negative consequences.
It's when the consequences getsignificant enough I'm going to
change my behavior.
With somebody who has, let'scall it clinical alcoholism or
clinical addiction, theconsequences will begin to mount
and my behavior doesn't changebecause willpower alone is not
(13:53):
going to be enough to pull meout of that.
I may recognize that that's notwhat I want anymore, but that
internal itch, that mental andemotional itch, is still there
and has not been treated.
And so this idea that I canexercise willpower, or that I
can just exercise, you know, atremendous amount of
self-control.
(14:13):
And stop doing this.
Occasionally you'll seesomebody who can stop drinking
or stop using drugs, but thenext thing you know they're
getting into gambling or they'rehaving an issue with food.
Like you know, when I got soberI gained a tremendous amount of
weight.
I knew I didn't want to drinkanymore, but I hadn't treated
(14:33):
that internal condition yet, andfood became my new drug of
choice.
And so we'll see crossaddictions beginning to happen.
Sometimes it's pornography orsex, or gambling, or exercise,
or work, or you know whatever itis, or work, or you know
whatever it is.
But it just becomes a game ofwhack-a-mole where we may
(14:53):
curtail one behavior only to seea new one pop up, or one that
you know used to be there becomemore prominent.
And it's not necessarily thatI'm dealing with an addiction,
I'm just switching from one toanother.
Let's talk a little bit abouthealthy brain function, because
(15:16):
I think this is really important.
When you look at how a healthybrain functions, there are
certain reward mechanisms in thebrain.
When we do healthy things, anormal healthy brain will reward
us with feeling good.
When I exercise, when I eathealthy, when I spend time with
(15:40):
people that are loving and kind,and I get something out of
those relationships when Iachieve a goal, you know those
kinds of things Like my brainknows to reward those behaviors.
A healthy brain knows to rewardthose behaviors.
There's also a mechanism in ahealthy brain that's there to
(16:02):
warn us hey, this is risky, thisis dangerous, you should not do
this.
If you do this, this is likelyto happen and fear will tell me
don't do that.
And then there's these grayareas where it's like, well,
there is risk, but there'sreward.
And so I need to rationallykind of think through does the
(16:25):
risk outweigh the reward or doesthe reward outweigh the risk?
And that's where the prefrontalcortex comes in and really kind
of helps us to make a lot ofthose executive decisions in
terms of is this something Ishould do or not?
And we're able to really, in amuch more logical way, usually
think through how our choicesand our actions are going to
(16:47):
impact us down the line.
When you deal with somebodywho's in active addiction, those
mechanisms get really, reallymessed up.
What ordinarily the pleasurecenters of the brain or the
reward centers of the brain.
They're not rewarding thehealthy behaviors anymore.
(17:09):
Sometimes it's an environmentalfactor.
Sometimes the person strugglingwith an addiction doesn't have
experiences in healthy behaviors.
They weren't taught healthybehaviors because they grew up
in a very dysfunctional system.
There was abuse, there wasneglect, there was abandonment,
there was all kinds ofdysfunction going on, and the
(17:30):
wiring that happens in our earlyyouth never really happened for
that person and so it nevertook hold in the first place.
And a lot of these copingstrategies were developed at a
very early age and addictionbecomes just kind of a natural
progression of that.
Becomes just kind of a naturalprogression of that.
(17:54):
And you know, I talked a littlebit about this in the last
episode when it came to screenaddiction and technology
addiction, where young peopleare getting a hold of devices at
a much earlier age and even,you know, I say earlier than my
generation.
The internet didn't even existuntil I was in college, and so
emails, those kinds of things,that was cutting edge technology
(18:15):
when I was in college.
Now my kids get access to thesedopamine hits on a regular
basis when they're on theirphones, whether it's social
media, whether it's games,whether it's, you know, 60
second videos on YouTube.
All of this is designed to hitthose dopamine centers and those
reward centers of the brain, tokeep that person engaged.
(18:37):
And we see that as thedevelopment happens down the
line and they get exposed toopportunities to use drugs and
to use alcohols, and thosealcohol and those dopamine hits
become more pronounced than whatthey'd even experienced before.
It's just kind of that naturalprogression of.
(18:57):
I'm going to continue to goafter this instant gratification
.
Now, sometimes the environmentalfactors are overwhelmingly
contributory to what's going on.
Sometimes it's a geneticcomponent.
Sometimes it's generationaltrauma that becomes not only
(19:19):
genetic but also environmental.
There's so many differentfactors that we have to
attribute to this.
It's not as cut and dry as thisperson's going to become
addicted because they'regenetically predisposed to this
and we can identify that there'sgenes that they have that are
active, that maybe in somebodyelse are dormant.
It's not as simple as that.
There is no gene that peoplecan identify to say, okay, this
(19:43):
is the gene for addiction.
Gabor Mate really talks aboutthis in one of his more recent
books, about how it's not thatsomebody is genetically
predisposed to addiction.
It's that they're wired to be,to be more sensitive than than
other people on an emotionallevel.
And then the environmentalfactors that that that hit that
(20:07):
sensitivity will largelydetermine whether that becomes
an asset or a liability.
You know, am I going to look touse this sensitivity as a way
to inform my empathy andcompassion towards other people,
or will I want to run away fromthese feelings in a way that
(20:27):
causes me to seek out chemicalsubstitutes to avoid those
feelings.
So there's no genetic markerfor addiction.
There's no gene that says, hey,this person's going to become
addicted, but there is a geneticcomponent to it.
That's indisputable.
The bigger factors, of course,are the environmental ones.
(20:49):
How know, how informed is thisperson from a young age about
the risks associated with drugand alcohol use?
How informed are they in termsof how their choices affect
consequences?
Education is a big part of thisand this is why I spend so much
time educating families,because we're so behind the
(21:10):
curve.
There's such a stigma out therethat is so strong when it comes
to addiction and alcoholism.
Our society really looks atthis.
Even though many of us willlook at this and say, oh,
addiction is a disease, there'sthis moral stigma that gets
attached to it.
We can't completely separatethe fact that this is a medical
disease and not a moral issue.
(21:33):
Even though somebody can say,oh, that person has the disease
of addiction, there's still thispall of stigma that hangs over
a lot of the people thatstruggle with this.
I experienced this in my ownlife.
I remember, after I had gottensober, I had told my parents
(21:53):
that I I'd been going to AA, andI remember the reaction from my
dad was you're an alcoholic.
And even though he knew that Iwas, I had a very severe
drinking problem and I had avery severe drug problem.
The idea that I would use theword alcoholic to define what I
(22:14):
was struggling with was almostinconceivable for him.
There was this association withsomebody who's an alcoholic is
a bad person.
It really took a lot for me toget out from under that early on
, because I didn't want to haveto call myself an alcoholic, I
didn't want to have to identifyas an addict because I had grown
(22:37):
up in an environment wherethose words were, those were
awful things to be associatedwith.
And I think that that happensin many, many homes.
And so we can say, oh,addiction is a disease.
But until we can really look atit objectively and say, okay,
this person is struggling with adisease, let's treat it versus
(22:59):
good or bad or morally, there'ssome sort of an assignment given
to the quality of somebody andtheir character, based on
whether or not they're alcoholicor an addict.
We have to find a way throughthat, because I think the shame
that gets associated with that,the shame that gets projected
(23:21):
onto the alcoholic and theaddict, and the shame that I
absorb or put on myself becauseof some of the choices that I
made during my addiction.
I think that's really the thingthat kills people.
We can look at it and say, oh,it's drunk driving, accidents,
it's DUIs, it's overdoses.
But if the shame wasn't there,would those people have gotten
(23:45):
help before it ever got to thatpoint?
And I think the answer is yes.
I think that we've got to finda way to have a different
conversation.
Now back to the point.
The American Society ofAddiction Medicine defines
addiction as a primary chronicdisease of brain, reward,
motivation, memory and relatedcircuitry.
(24:05):
It is characterized bycompulsive drug seeking and use
despite negative consequences.
So, even though theconsequences are starting to
mount and we talked a little bitabout this when we were kind of
making the argument foraddiction being a choice as the
consequences start to mount,it's like from the outside,
(24:27):
looking in, people are lookingat this, going.
Why can't he just stop?
This is crazy.
He's going to jail, he's losinghis family.
There's so many things thatthis person is losing, including
(24:49):
his health, his self-esteem.
Why can't he just stop?
And what I'll say is no onewakes up with a life of
addiction and says yes, this isexactly what I wanted when I was
a little boy and somebody askedme what I wanted to be.
When I grew up, this is what Ihad in mind.
I wanted to be homeless.
I wanted to be penniless.
I wanted to be without friendsor family around me.
I wanted to hurt the feelingsof anyone that ever cared about
me.
I wanted to take advantage andmanipulate and deceive everyone
(25:12):
in my life.
Nobody wakes up and says that,but what happens is, as this
disease takes hold of us, all ofthose things begin to happen.
And it's not because we'rechoosing that.
It's because the disease takeshold and we're no longer in
(25:33):
control of what happens next.
I'm no longer in control of myability to say no anymore.
I'm no longer in control of myability to say no anymore.
The craziest thing we do whenwe're in active addiction, we do
in a completely sober state ofmind, and that, given the
abundance of consequences.
That said that I should not goout and do this again.
(25:54):
I will, because I will somehowconvince myself that this time
it's going to be different.
And here's how I'm going to doit differently, and here's how
I'm going to avoid some of theconsequences that I've been
having lately, and I'm going tooutthink this thing.
I've got a guy that I recentlydid an intervention on, who's in
treatment right now, who istrying to convince his family.
(26:16):
Hey, you know what?
I think it's just the substancethat I was using, because he
was using a substance andalcohol.
I think the substance was theproblem.
I think I could probably drinklike a normal person, as long as
I don't go back to using thatsubstance.
And that's the insanity ofaddiction is that I'm willing to
risk everything that is infront of me, all the potential,
(26:39):
all the relationships, all ofthose things that are in front
of me right now.
I'm willing to risk thatbecause I think I can have a
healthy relationship withalcohol, or I think I can have a
healthy relationship with asubstance.
It's absolutely insane, but yetwe will convince ourselves that
it's possible.
And that is where the diseaseof addiction lives.
(27:02):
It's in the brain, it's inthese delusional thoughts that
somehow I can do this in adifferent way.
Somehow I can do this in aresponsible way, that I can
drink like people who are notalcoholic or addicted, because
Because we remember when it feltgood, we remember when the
(27:24):
relief was there.
We have such an ability toforget the consequences.
We have such an ability toforget the negative things that
happen Almost as immediately asthey're over, we will somehow
convince ourselves that it'sgoing to go back to being good
again, and that's the insanityof this problem, that's the
(27:44):
insanity of this.
And so whether or not youbelieve addiction is a disease
or whether or not you believeit's a choice, honestly it
doesn't matter.
What I do know is that medicinehas not been able to produce a
medication.
Medicine has not been able toproduce a medication.
(28:05):
Therapists have not been ableto produce a specific type of
therapy that eliminates thisproblem.
It requires what we call inrecovery, a complete psychic
change.
We have to change the way wesee ourselves.
We have to change the way wesee how we fit into the world,
and that is not an easy process,but it's also not a difficult
(28:28):
process it requires.
The hard part about it is thatit requires a tremendous amount
of humility, and it requires atremendous amount of willingness
to say okay is it possible thatI've been wrong?
Willingness to say okay, is itpossible that I've been wrong?
Is it possible that I haven'tlooked at this with honest eyes?
And, when it comes right downto it, regardless of whether you
(28:51):
see this as a disease orwhether you see this as a choice
.
Moving from addiction intorecovery involves two factors.
People will only change whenthey've begun to experience some
negative consequences as aresult of their drinking and
drug use.
That has to be present.
If I'm not experiencingnegative consequences,
(29:14):
regardless of what everybodyelse sees in my life, if I can't
identify that there's somenegative consequences going on,
I'm probably not going to bemotivated to change.
But here's the other thing andthis is the most important thing
is that there has to be hopeand some optimism that change is
possible and it's sustainable.
(29:34):
Because when I just get pointedout hey, you need help, you
need to do this, you'reexperiencing some consequences,
it's happening all over again,can't you see?
That is not enough to createlasting change.
And that's the most importantpart of the intervention process
(29:54):
when I'm working with familiesis the consequences are pretty
easy to identify, even to theperson that we're intervening on
.
The consequences are prettyeasy to identify, even to the
person that we're intervening on.
But unless we can create somehope that change is possible and
sustainable and that life canget better as a result of moving
into recovery.
That person is not going to doit, and so, as you guys are
(30:18):
thinking about having newconversations with your loved
ones, if you're thinking about,hey, how do I approach this
differently, it's not about youneed to do this or you need to
go to treatment or you need toget help.
They know that.
They know that things need tochange.
What we have to do is createhope.
(31:08):
No-transcript is shame.
Shame on the part of theindividual who's addicted,
because I don't want to have toconfront the fact that I've hurt
people and I've made a mess ofmy life and there's a lot of
cleanup that I've got to do.
And shame on the part of thefamily because they don't see
(31:32):
this as they can't remove thejudgment from the equation.
I don't want to have toconfront the fact that I have an
addict in my home equation.
I don't want to have toconfront the fact that I have an
addict in my home.
I don't want to have toconfront the fact that I have
been contributory to that in myenabling of the addiction.
My motives have been loving, mymotives have been pure, but
I've enabled that and I don'twant to have to confront that,
(31:54):
and so we have to get the stigmaremoved out of this.
We have to be able to see thisin a different way and I
challenge each and every one ofyou to start looking into some
resources.
You don't have to be a part ofwhat I'm a part of.
This isn't me trying tonecessarily promote myself or my
services or even the freeservices offered at Intervention
(32:16):
on Call.
Go to an Al-Anon meeting, go toan R-Anon meeting, go to an
alan on meeting, go to an arnonmeeting, go to an an aca meeting
.
Um, there, get into therapy.
Like.
There's so many differentresources that are out there.
One of the sponsors of thispodcast that I don't really talk
about very often is better helpif you need to get into therapy
and you haven't been able tofind a therapist.
(32:37):
If you go to betterhelpcom partyrecords, you get a discount on
your first month of onlinetherapy.
You can switch therapists asoften as you go to betterhelpcom
slash partywreckers you get adiscount on your first month of
online therapy.
You can switch therapists asoften as you need to.
There are so many resources outthere that families can use to
begin moving this conversationin a different way, and I just
implore you to not let fearparalyze you to the point where
(33:01):
it compromises your loved one,to a point where they're not
going to be able to get helpdown the line.
I'm here to help.
I would love to hear from youguys.
If you have questions, email meat matt at partyrecordscom.
I really appreciate you makingit all the way to the end of
this episode.
If there's anything I can do tohelp you guys, let me know, and
until then I hope your lovedone will get sober and stay
(33:21):
sober.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(33:49):
don't enable addiction ever.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.