January 13, 2025 • 31 mins
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Layne LoMaglio's journey from addiction to recovery is as inspiring as it is cautionary, and his story begins with a box of wine at age 12. This episode promises to unravel the complexities of mental health struggles and the winding path to sobriety. Join us as Layne shares his personal battle with clinical depression and self-harm, alongside his early experiences with alcohol. Host Matt Brown adds a heartfelt dimension by recounting his daughter's struggles with anxiety, underscoring the necessity of compassion and understanding when supporting young people. Through these shared experiences, we explore the vital role of family and therapy in healing.
Layne's story takes us through the challenges of relapse, the impact of a rigid recovery mindset, and the ultimate redemption found in flexibility and community support. From the initial failure of a sober apartment plan in Austin to success in Kerrville, Layne's narrative is one of resilience and adaptability. His evolution from operations to founding Helm Recovery highlights the importance of lived experience in intervention and coaching roles. Together, Lane and Matt discuss the intertwined nature of substance use and mental health, offering insights into how thoughtful interventions can pave the way for lasting change.
Contact Layne at Helm Recovery or book a private coaching session with him at Intervention on Call.
Join us Every Sunday at 8:00 PM PST and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday Night at 8:00 PM EST/5:00PST for a FREE family support group. Register at the following link to get the zoom information sent to you: Family Support Meeting
About our sponsor(s):
Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist. While a professional intervention can be a powerful experience for change, not every family needs a professionally led intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professional intervention, we can help. Hour sessions are $150.
Therapy is a very important way to take care of your mental health. This can happen from the comfort of your own home or office. If you need therapy and want to get a discount on your first month of services please try Better Help.
If you want to know more about the host's private practice please visit:
Matt Brown: Freedom Interventions
Follow the host on TikTok
Matt: @mattbrowninterventionist
If you have a question that we can answer on the show, please email us at matt@partywreckers.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
seasoned addictioninterventionist, Matt Brown.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism.
(00:22):
Perhaps they are reluctant toget the help that they need.
We are here to educate andentertain you while removing the
fear from the conversation.
Stick with us and we will getyou through it.
Welcome the original partywrecker, Matt Brown party
(00:48):
wrecker Matt Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to 2025.
This is our first episode ofthe podcast here in 2025.
I hope everybody had a MerryChristmas and a Happy New Year.
I have a guest in studio today,or I guess it's a virtual
studio.
He's in Austin, texas, and I'mhere in Bend, oregon.
But I have a guest today that'sjoining me.
His name is Lane Lamalio.
He is one of the providers withme on Intervention On Call and,
during the course of our timetogether coaching families on
(01:13):
Intervention On Call, I havegotten to know him.
I consider him a friend.
Ladies and gentlemen, laneLamalio, how are you, lane?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Thank you man, I'm doing well, doing great and, uh,
really excited to be on hereand to talk about whatever we're
going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Um, sounds good.
Yeah, I, you know there's a fewthings that I want to get into.
Obviously I want everybodylistening to kind of get to know
who you are and you know we'lldig into kind of the deep, deep,
dark past that most of us asinterventionists share in terms
of our own addiction andrecovery, and then we can talk a
little bit about how you gotinto this line of work.
But tell me a little bit aboutwhere you come from, kind of a
(01:52):
little bit about your background, how you got into your life as
far as you know an active drugaddiction or alcoholism,
wherever you want to start.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, well, I was.
I'm one of the few remainingborn and raised in Austin, texas
people.
So I was born here, went toschool here and started my
addiction with a box wine mymom's box wine in the fridge
when I was about 12 years old.
You know you remember the Bodaboxes oh yeah, old um.
(02:25):
You know you remember the likeboda boxes?
Oh yeah, yeah, you have the bag.
Yeah yeah, uh, we so I would.
I would drink a little bit ofthat and, uh, never really had,
you know, any kind of feelingbefore that.
You know people talk about, youknow they, they had that drink
and it was a moment for me itwasn't so much, it wasn't so
(02:46):
much that, as much as it was, oh, this, this feels, this feels
pretty cool.
You know, this feels a littlebit different than what I was
feeling.
It wasn't this dying inside yet.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
At 12 years old, it's .
It's hard to make thatconnection.
It's just, yeah, it makes sensethat it was like oh, this is
nice.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
It didn't take long, though it did not take long From
there.
Just a couple years after that,my mental health took a dive
and started suffering fromclinical depression and
self-harming.
So it wasn't so much thesubstances, it wasn't just that,
(03:26):
it was a lot of other things.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Can I ask a little bit about that?
Yeah, so you're probablysomewhere at this point, 12, 13,
14 years old.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, about 14.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Okay, so at 14 years old, you start displaying signs
or feelings of depression.
Displaying signs or feelings ofof depression how, how did you
make that that move into?
Oh, if I, if I hurt myself likewhat I think a lot of young
people I guess what I'm gettingat a lot of young people go
through this and parents thatmight be listening to this right
(03:58):
now may may make thatconnection.
Like I see my young teenstruggling.
I was just going through thisduring the holidays with my 16
year struggling.
I was just going through thisduring the holidays with my 16
year old.
She was really struggling withanxiety and and I remember even
having this conversation withher and she was like dad, I just
if, if I could hurt on theoutside, it would make the hurt
on the inside not feel so bad.
(04:19):
And for a 16 year old to reallykind of have that moment where
she could articulate that I waslike, oh my gosh, you don't
understand how profound that is.
It's amazing.
I made that pain go away withdrugs and alcohol and I want you
to know, as father to daughterhere, I know what that pain
(04:41):
feels like and I'm so gratefulthat you're able to talk to me
about this right now.
So at 14 years old, what wasthat like for you?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Well, I can tell you that your daughter is very, very
fortunate to have a father likeyou that's meeting her where
she's at, like that, and foranybody, any parents that are
listening, that are experiencingthat.
That's how you do it Curiosityand compassion and care, Because
(05:11):
that's exactly what it is.
It is that pain I got.
I got two kids.
I have a four-year-old and11-year-old, and just you
telling me about you, justsaying that about your daughter
and thinking about my son and mydaughter and my daughter, and
if that ever happens like it'sjust, it makes me cry.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
And listen.
I don't want to take any creditfor that conversation.
She's a pretty amazing kid.
I'm just lucky to have adaughter that can talk and like
understand.
She's been in therapy for alittle while now and I think
she's a lot more comfortablethan I was at that age having
those conversations.
So I don't want to take a lotof credit for that.
She's just a pretty, prettygood, cool kid.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Well, okay, we'll let people decide where the where
the credit goes on that one Um,but for me, what it was like was
like.
It was that feeling.
It was like, you know, if I canjust feel, distract myself
essentially, you know, distractmy mind from feeling the pain
(06:16):
and suffering that's happeninginside, and I was not met with
the care and compassion thatyou're talking about.
I was met more with punitiveaction, and that was not met
with the care and compassionthat you're talking about.
I was met more with punitiveaction, and that was actually
the start.
That wasn't the start.
I was 14.
A lot of traumas happened beforethat.
And another thing for anyparents that are listening
(06:39):
anytime we mention traumas oranything like that, it doesn't.
How do I say this Trauma?
You need to.
I like to replace the wordblame with responsibility and
where that lies.
My parents did the best theycould with what they had, with
(06:59):
what they knew to do.
Um, I don't blame them at allfor anything in any of what I've
gone through, but I waspunished for having those
feelings not necessarily havingthose feelings, but that's the
way it was internalized.
The music that I was listeningto was this metal band from
(07:21):
Finland that talks about death.
All the time I read Anne Ricebooks, I thought I was a vampire
.
I was, I was a weird kid, um,and all that was taken away.
Uh, and not once was thequestion asked what's going on,
how are you doing?
You know, what do you, what doyou feel, what do you feel the
(07:47):
need for for?
And when I say, meet it withcompassion and curiosity.
That's what I mean, it's justanybody who's got kids, just be
curious, be curious abouteverything.
And so the self-harming.
I quickly realized that while Ionly have so much skin that I
can cut before, uh, you know,people are going to really
(08:09):
notice.
And so, uh, that's when I gotmore into cocaine and Xanax and
alcohol.
Those were my, my three, mythree big ones.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
How old were you?
I know you started drinking at12, but when did you start
getting into other substances?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Uh, other substances was about probably say 15 15,
because I remember my dad usedto drive me the first time I got
in trouble.
So I, I, my addiction wasprogressive, my recovery was
progressive, and so the firsttime I got in trouble, uh, my
dad started driving me to uh 101, the old Club 101 here in
(08:48):
Austin, and I remember he woulddrop me off and I would leave in
the middle when I passed thebasket and go do some coke and
then go back inside and so Igradually progressed into IOPs
and then inpatient and all ofthat.
But about 14, 15, 14 was theself-harming and 15 kind of got
(09:14):
into.
You know it's hard to reallyput a solid timeline on it but I
can say by the time I was asenior in high school I was real
heavy into Xanax, drinking anddoing.
Cocaine trashed.
An Audi TT that was my friend'scar who was too messed up to go
(09:38):
get the Coke.
So here's the keys and I didn'tknow how to drive stick, so
that ended up in the middle ofthat big intersection in Steiner
Ranch Anybody knows where thatis and that was an embarrassing
moment.
And then kind of just it wasall a big Xanax blur.
Anybody who's done.
(09:58):
Xanax like that knows that youjust don't remember a whole lot.
I do remember waking up.
My parents divorced when I wastwo, and so my mom and stepdad
were living out in Marble Fallsand I remember waking up there
with all my stuff there and justthinking, well, I guess I, I
(10:22):
guess I live here now and justcontinue doing my thing out
there and ended up getting a DWI, and that's when I made the
decision to go to inpatienttreatment for the first time.
So I was 18 when I got sober.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
So let me ask you, as you're a teenager and getting
dropped off at the club, wherethey're doing 12-step meetings
and obviously if you're leavingand getting high during the
meetings, you weren'tnecessarily engaged but at what
point did any of that, if at all, start rubbing off on you and
and how did that impact yourdecision to go get treatment?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
it wasn't.
It wasn't until I was actuallyin treatment.
Okay, um, because in treatmentI had this grand plan, me and
these two other clients, andthey had a grand plan of we were
going to get an apartment inAustin.
Uh, it was going to be a soberapartment but a little bit of
Xanax was allowed and, um, youknow, we have some parameters
(11:18):
around it, right, and um, Istarted going through the steps
with my counselor, who isChristine Calvert.
Anybody knows her.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Are you kidding me?
I used to work with Christineat the Arbor.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
She's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
She lives up here in Oregon now.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, she was my counselor when I was 18, when
she was first starting out.
That's awesome.
So she actually took me throughthe steps the first time while
I was in, while I was in there.
And so those other two clientsleft that we had this whole plan
with, and naturally the planfell apart because none of us
had anything, any money or anyany way to make that happen.
(12:00):
And um, and she said, uh, whatabout?
What about Kerrville?
What about going to do sober,living in Kerrville?
I said I'm going back to Austin, I'm from Austin, I'm an Austin
guy, I was this little hippie,hipster, kid, musician and all
that.
So Kerrville had nothing tooffer me and she said why don't
(12:22):
we work on it a little bit, staya little bit longer?
And so I stayed 39 days intreatment, nine days extra than
I was supposed to, Because atthat point she had me working on
my fourth step.
And the fourth step blew my mind.
Anybody who doesn't know whatthe fourth step is it's when you
take a personal inventory.
(12:43):
You look at all yourresentments, your fears, your
relationships, stuff like that.
But I didn't know what the wordresentment meant.
And I wasn't an angry person,Of course not.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, I wasn't angry, but when- I just listened to
Finish Death Metal and cutmyself.
I'm not angry.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Oh, it's sad.
It's sad.
It was the pain.
You know it turns into.
It manifests in different ways.
Sure, a lot of people it comesout as anger, but Christine
actually told me.
She said if you're not angry,that's okay.
Let's look at the wordresentment.
(13:25):
You know where does it comefrom, what's the etymology
around it.
You know it comes from the wordreason, toray, which is to
refill in Latin.
And so she asked me are you,are you still feeling anything
from from your past?
And I just broke down.
I was like I'm feelingeverything.
(14:05):
No-transcript, I'm still inKerrville and I had found, I
guess I was 18.
You know, I didn't really havea life back here in Austin.
I mean, my life was, uh, theguy.
I was the guy in Cedar park who, uh, who you could get some
stuff from.
(14:26):
That was it Um.
And so I'd found my tribe.
You know we hear that all thetime and and and uh program.
I found my people and that'sreally what happened is, uh, I
found people that I could relatewith and relate to Um.
And you know, I found uh, Ifound a group and a calling and
(14:48):
started working in treatment,started working at the treatment
center that I went to as soonas I won't say any names as soon
as they turned a blind eye anddidn't wait the two years to
hire me and went ahead andstarted as the overnight PhD and
I was the cool tech back then.
(15:09):
I was the one that all theclients loved because I didn't
follow all the rules, being 19at that point, yeah.
But yeah, I started.
I started working in treatmentat 19 and in operations and so I
did that treatment center,another one, one that you've
(15:29):
worked at, uh, you know all theway up to uh, to when I came
back to Austin after that afterthose three years and was sober
for five and a half years totalat that stint, um, and there's a
.
So I have nine years now andthe big difference and I like to
(15:51):
really emphasize this when Italk with families and coaching
clients is there's nothing wrongwith any way that anybody does
the steps or works the programor anything like that.
What can be dangerous is whenyou say it's the only way that
(16:13):
it can be done.
And the way that I was raised inrecovery in Kerrville was that
this is the way.
At least, that was myperception.
I'm not going to say thatthat's the way it actually was.
But my perception was, you know, I got sober when my space was
(16:36):
around in 07.
And I was so afraid to post mystatus because I had a little
drop down where you had to puthow you feel and if you weren't
happy, joyous and free all thetime, you were doing something
wrong.
Pray about it.
You write some inventory.
(16:56):
You need to go help somebody.
Like you couldn't just sit inyour sadness, like you couldn't
just be sad, you couldn't beangry.
Um and again, that was just myperception of it.
That was the way that Iinternalized it.
And so when I moved back toAustin, there was a big exodus
from Kerrville.
(17:16):
A bunch of us, you know, cameback home here to Austin and I
believe that it was thatrigorous it has to be this way
type of recovery that brought meback out.
I ended up drinking again atfive and a half years sober, and
(17:39):
that's a whole.
The whole relapse was about twoyears, got some extra charges,
caught a couple of felonies, uh,one stint at another treatment
center, homelessness and uh.
And then prison.
Prison was my, my first year ofsobriety this time and uh, it
(18:00):
was for uh, like unauthorizeduse of a credit card and uh
possession, okay.
But during that relapse waswhen I found IV methamphetamine
use and that's a whole differentmonster.
That took me down.
In about nine months I gotpicked up by Curve LPD and you
(18:28):
know, whenever people inmeetings would talk about you
know, using a needle isdifferent than getting sober
from the needle is differentthan other things.
I'd always call them out becauseI'd never used a needle and I'm
like, ah, it's all the same.
It's all the same, call themout because I'd never used a
needle on my eye.
It's all the same, it's all thesame.
It's really.
You know, you look at the waythat and with what we do like.
(18:50):
That's why it's so importantfor for us to really understand
and get a full, full picture,detailed picture of what's
really going on, what the personis really using, how, how
they're using it, what, whattheir whole I can't think of the
word what their whole kind ofritual, their whole thing is.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Have you ever seen that movie, the Salton Sea, with
Val Kilmer and VincentD'Onofrio?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
No.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Man.
I have never seen a movie thatdepicts as accurately as that
one does what it's like to be anIV methamphetamine user and be
in that world.
It's so incredibly accurate andgraphic.
Now don't get me wrong, it's aHollywood movie and there's some
sensationalism there.
But if anybody wants to kind ofget a snapshot into what
(19:42):
methamphetamine-inducedpsychosis looks like, go watch
that movie.
The Salton Sea and and uh,trust me, it's uh, you know I
didn't see it until after I gotsober, but but man, is it
accurate?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, I haven't seen the movie, but I mean I trust
you it is.
It is a very scary, scary time.
I guess it's a good opportunityto kind of talk about that,
because that is a big thing witha lot of the families that I
work with and that I know youwork with too.
Is that?
Is there mental health involvedin this?
(20:19):
Because not only does methcause psychosis, but Delta-8,
Delta-9 can cause psychosis.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
THC.
I see a lot of THC and dopsychosis right now.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah, Just weed drinking when you drink over a
prolonged period of time,anything that keeps you up or
brings you down and keeps youout of equilibrium for any
period of time, anything thatkeeps you up or brings you down
and keeps you out of equilibriumfor any period of time can
cause psychosis, and I thinkthat's probably so.
(20:54):
I also do mental healthinterventions.
So people with schizophrenia,schizoaffective disorders,
thought disorders, I do that aswell and I think that's probably
why, because I I relate withbeing out of this reality that
much to the point where thehouse that I was squatting and
(21:15):
was you know how, to how toempty the lot behind it, and I
would, I would look out thereand there'd be all of these
people, just shadows of people,and they were there.
I mean, they were there, man,they weren't just like, oh yeah,
like they were there and, uh,they would chase me, they.
(21:37):
It's scary stuff.
It is, um, very, very scary.
And which is another reason whyit's really helpful, important
because there was a mentalhealth aspect.
Uh, the lead interventionist onit uh allowed the family to
(22:12):
execute it that day.
Uh, shouldn't have been donethat day.
Uh, I ended up chasing this kidup like seven flights of stairs
and tackling him to the groundas he was going over the railing
, and so, yeah, bad things canhappen if, uh, that's not done
(22:35):
thoughtfully and, you know,carefully and just in an
educated way.
You.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Well, I know you.
You had started kind of talkingabout your relapse and getting
introduced into, you know thethe world of IV meth use and
having had some time in prison.
But how long after you got outof prison and at what point did
you decide?
You know what I want to getinto intervention work and what
was your path into this kind ofinto this field?
Speaker 3 (23:03):
So when I got out because I had been in recovery
for for five years before and soit's all I really knew, it's
all the people that I knew.
And so when I got out thatthose are the people that I went
back to, and uh, one of mybuddies uh was like hey, why
don't you come to recovery inthe Park?
(23:23):
I'll introduce you to my boss.
I just started working at thiscool new treatment center.
I immediately got back intotreatment.
Having felonies and a reallydark past really helps when
you're trying to get a job at atreatment center.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It's almost a prerequisite.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
It definitely is.
We don't want any of thoseclean-cut people.
We need people that have donesome time.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
When the interview question is how badly did you
burn your life to the ground andhave you done?
Speaker 3 (23:54):
it badly enough.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
You know you're in good company.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I started working at atreatment center here in Austin.
I worked at several when Imoved back to Austin before
relapsing.
Then when I got out of prison,my buddy who actually funny
story I used to sponsor him.
Then after I relapsed hesponsored me.
(24:21):
So we had a little switcheroothere.
Okay, he sponsored me, and sothey had a little little
switcheroo there.
Okay, um and uh, so I startedworking in treatment again back
in operations.
That's all I really knew, um,and I started getting started
getting a little bit moreeducated on the clinical side of
things, on the uh, the um, uh,regulation side of things, uh,
(24:43):
kind of looking at the wholepicture of a treatment center
and worked at several differentplaces, up to, you know,
director of marketing, directorof operations, executive
director, and the higher I hire,the more positions I change,
(25:03):
the further away I got from, youknow, the actual clients.
I did schedule time in mycalendar to go walk around the
facility to to meet with peopleand talk with people, um, and
through some some decisions thatwere not mine, uh, you know, I
I was allowed to take a stepback and look at what do I
(25:30):
really want to do?
Is this the road that I want tostay on, or do I want to seek
out something else?
And so I had a couple offriends who had been doing
coaching for a little bitrecovery coaching and so I said
you know what?
That's actually exactly why Istarted working in treatment.
(25:51):
You know, because everybodystarts out as a tech, right?
You know the guy, the personthat's driving the van to the
meetings.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
That's where I started, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yeah, and you're, you're there with the clients,
you're talking with them and youknow they're asking you
questions about recovery or notrecovery.
And you're there with theclients, You're talking with
them and they're asking youquestions about recovery or not
recovery and you're justbuilding rapport and talking
with them.
I was like that's what I'mgoing to do.
So I started my company, HelmRecovery, and I'm on IOC and
(26:20):
we're all individual providerson there and we're all
individual providers on there.
I started home recovery back in2020 during COVID I think it was
right after the height of COVIDand started out with coaching.
And then I started looking atmy experience in the treatment
(26:42):
industry and it's all coaching,it's all AMA blocking and and
working with the families andtalking with you.
Know, it all kind of comes intothis, what we do here, Um, and
so I got certified as a uh, I'ma nationally certified recovery
coach and nationally certifiedintervention professional, and
(27:07):
so what brought me into this isall of that, yeah, All of that
and then some.
And since then, I've workedwith families all over the
country and a lot of familieshere, local in Austin, With IOC.
We have people all over thecountry and so it's really cool
(27:29):
to have a really wide network.
A really wide net, Um, but yeah, that's uh kind of how I got
where I'm at now.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Well, it's been my pleasure to work with you at
intervention on call and to toyou know, we do these every
Thursday night.
We do a free friends and familysession where anybody who's got
a loved one in crisis in activeaddiction can come and and get
some live coaching from one ofus or many of us, depending on
how many of the interventionistsare on the call that night.
But you've been on many of thesame coaching sessions that I've
(28:03):
been on and it's just beenreally good to hear you give
families feedback and we're soaligned in many of the things
that we are doing with families.
But I can honestly say thatI've learned a lot by hearing
you talk to families and I thinkyou're a real asset to the
families that we get on thatplatform.
And I do just want to say thankyou for the influence that you
(28:26):
bring to the group and to thoseThursday night calls, and
anybody in the Austin area orelsewhere in the country who you
know feels like Lane might beable to help them with their
loved one.
I want to encourage you toreach out to him.
I'll put your contactinformation for Helm Recovery.
I'll put your page onintervention on call in the show
notes.
So so people know how to getahold of you and I just think
(28:48):
that you're a phenomenalinterventionist but just a
really good human being.
You and I have had opportunitiesto speak about other things
besides business along the way,and just you know you're a
mountain of a man.
You know.
You know you're a mountain of aman, you know in a physical way
(29:08):
, but you're also just a veryyou bring a sensitivity that I
don't think a lot of peopleexpect from a man that looks
like you.
Uh, that has kind of thebackground that you have.
You know, not not many men whohave gone to prison feel very
comfortable sitting down andtalking about their feelings or
letting other people talk abouttheir feelings.
And you know you, you just youpossess a lot of qualities that
(29:28):
just make you a goodinterventionist and a good human
being, and I'm I'm lucky tocount you as a friend and I hope
that anybody listening to thistoday can can really, if they
feel like Lane is a good fit, tohelp their son or their
daughter or their loved one.
I wouldn't, I would neverhesitate to to encourage someone
to to reach out to you and askfor your help, and so I just
(29:49):
want to thank you for being onhere with me today and thank you
for being my friend.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Thank you.
Thank you, man.
Those are a lot of kind wordsand you're going to make me cry
here now.
Well, well well deserved.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Well deserved, every one of them.
And yeah, is there anything youknow before we sign off today?
Is there anything that you wantto want to share with families,
or any any final words here?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yeah, I think.
I think it's usually what kindof what we say on the Thursday
night meetings is if you feelthat there's a need for reaching
out to one of us, don't waitfor something bad to happen to
do it.
Reach out now, even if it'sjust for coaching or just a
conversation, just kind of seewhere you stand.
If you wait for something badto happen, then that bad thing
(30:33):
will have happened and thenyou'll take action.
So those are my closingstatements, but I really
appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Absolutely, and thank you to everybody who stuck with
us for the last half hourlistening to us and until next
time everybody stays over.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atpartywreckerscom and remember
(31:16):
don't enable addiction ever.
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
seasoned addictioninterventionist, Matt Brown.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism.
(00:22):
Perhaps they are reluctant toget the help that they need.
We are here to educate andentertain you while removing the
fear from the conversation.
Stick with us and we will getyou through it.
Welcome the original partywrecker, Matt Brown party
(00:48):
wrecker Matt Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to 2025.
This is our first episode ofthe podcast here in 2025.
I hope everybody had a MerryChristmas and a Happy New Year.
I have a guest in studio today,or I guess it's a virtual
studio.
He's in Austin, texas, and I'mhere in Bend, oregon.
But I have a guest today that'sjoining me.
His name is Lane Lamalio.
He is one of the providers withme on Intervention On Call and,
during the course of our timetogether coaching families on
(01:13):
Intervention On Call, I havegotten to know him.
I consider him a friend.
Ladies and gentlemen, laneLamalio, how are you, lane?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Thank you man, I'm doing well, doing great and, uh,
really excited to be on hereand to talk about whatever we're
going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Um, sounds good.
Yeah, I, you know there's a fewthings that I want to get into.
Obviously I want everybodylistening to kind of get to know
who you are and you know we'lldig into kind of the deep, deep,
dark past that most of us asinterventionists share in terms
of our own addiction andrecovery, and then we can talk a
little bit about how you gotinto this line of work.
But tell me a little bit aboutwhere you come from, kind of a
(01:52):
little bit about your background, how you got into your life as
far as you know an active drugaddiction or alcoholism,
wherever you want to start.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, well, I was.
I'm one of the few remainingborn and raised in Austin, texas
people.
So I was born here, went toschool here and started my
addiction with a box wine mymom's box wine in the fridge
when I was about 12 years old.
You know you remember the Bodaboxes oh yeah, old um.
(02:25):
You know you remember the likeboda boxes?
Oh yeah, yeah, you have the bag.
Yeah yeah, uh, we so I would.
I would drink a little bit ofthat and, uh, never really had,
you know, any kind of feelingbefore that.
You know people talk about, youknow they, they had that drink
and it was a moment for me itwasn't so much, it wasn't so
(02:46):
much that, as much as it was, oh, this, this feels, this feels
pretty cool.
You know, this feels a littlebit different than what I was
feeling.
It wasn't this dying inside yet.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
At 12 years old, it's .
It's hard to make thatconnection.
It's just, yeah, it makes sensethat it was like oh, this is
nice.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
It didn't take long, though it did not take long From
there.
Just a couple years after that,my mental health took a dive
and started suffering fromclinical depression and
self-harming.
So it wasn't so much thesubstances, it wasn't just that,
(03:26):
it was a lot of other things.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Can I ask a little bit about that?
Yeah, so you're probablysomewhere at this point, 12, 13,
14 years old.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, about 14.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Okay, so at 14 years old, you start displaying signs
or feelings of depression.
Displaying signs or feelings ofof depression how, how did you
make that that move into?
Oh, if I, if I hurt myself likewhat I think a lot of young
people I guess what I'm gettingat a lot of young people go
through this and parents thatmight be listening to this right
(03:58):
now may may make thatconnection.
Like I see my young teenstruggling.
I was just going through thisduring the holidays with my 16
year struggling.
I was just going through thisduring the holidays with my 16
year old.
She was really struggling withanxiety and and I remember even
having this conversation withher and she was like dad, I just
if, if I could hurt on theoutside, it would make the hurt
on the inside not feel so bad.
(04:19):
And for a 16 year old to reallykind of have that moment where
she could articulate that I waslike, oh my gosh, you don't
understand how profound that is.
It's amazing.
I made that pain go away withdrugs and alcohol and I want you
to know, as father to daughterhere, I know what that pain
(04:41):
feels like and I'm so gratefulthat you're able to talk to me
about this right now.
So at 14 years old, what wasthat like for you?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Well, I can tell you that your daughter is very, very
fortunate to have a father likeyou that's meeting her where
she's at, like that, and foranybody, any parents that are
listening, that are experiencingthat.
That's how you do it Curiosityand compassion and care, Because
(05:11):
that's exactly what it is.
It is that pain I got.
I got two kids.
I have a four-year-old and11-year-old, and just you
telling me about you, justsaying that about your daughter
and thinking about my son and mydaughter and my daughter, and
if that ever happens like it'sjust, it makes me cry.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
And listen.
I don't want to take any creditfor that conversation.
She's a pretty amazing kid.
I'm just lucky to have adaughter that can talk and like
understand.
She's been in therapy for alittle while now and I think
she's a lot more comfortablethan I was at that age having
those conversations.
So I don't want to take a lotof credit for that.
She's just a pretty, prettygood, cool kid.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Well, okay, we'll let people decide where the where
the credit goes on that one Um,but for me, what it was like was
like.
It was that feeling.
It was like, you know, if I canjust feel, distract myself
essentially, you know, distractmy mind from feeling the pain
(06:16):
and suffering that's happeninginside, and I was not met with
the care and compassion thatyou're talking about.
I was met more with punitiveaction, and that was not met
with the care and compassionthat you're talking about.
I was met more with punitiveaction, and that was actually
the start.
That wasn't the start.
I was 14.
A lot of traumas happened beforethat.
And another thing for anyparents that are listening
(06:39):
anytime we mention traumas oranything like that, it doesn't.
How do I say this Trauma?
You need to.
I like to replace the wordblame with responsibility and
where that lies.
My parents did the best theycould with what they had, with
(06:59):
what they knew to do.
Um, I don't blame them at allfor anything in any of what I've
gone through, but I waspunished for having those
feelings not necessarily havingthose feelings, but that's the
way it was internalized.
The music that I was listeningto was this metal band from
(07:21):
Finland that talks about death.
All the time I read Anne Ricebooks, I thought I was a vampire
.
I was, I was a weird kid, um,and all that was taken away.
Uh, and not once was thequestion asked what's going on,
how are you doing?
You know, what do you, what doyou feel, what do you feel the
(07:47):
need for for?
And when I say, meet it withcompassion and curiosity.
That's what I mean, it's justanybody who's got kids, just be
curious, be curious abouteverything.
And so the self-harming.
I quickly realized that while Ionly have so much skin that I
can cut before, uh, you know,people are going to really
(08:09):
notice.
And so, uh, that's when I gotmore into cocaine and Xanax and
alcohol.
Those were my, my three, mythree big ones.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
How old were you?
I know you started drinking at12, but when did you start
getting into other substances?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Uh, other substances was about probably say 15 15,
because I remember my dad usedto drive me the first time I got
in trouble.
So I, I, my addiction wasprogressive, my recovery was
progressive, and so the firsttime I got in trouble, uh, my
dad started driving me to uh 101, the old Club 101 here in
(08:48):
Austin, and I remember he woulddrop me off and I would leave in
the middle when I passed thebasket and go do some coke and
then go back inside and so Igradually progressed into IOPs
and then inpatient and all ofthat.
But about 14, 15, 14 was theself-harming and 15 kind of got
(09:14):
into.
You know it's hard to reallyput a solid timeline on it but I
can say by the time I was asenior in high school I was real
heavy into Xanax, drinking anddoing.
Cocaine trashed.
An Audi TT that was my friend'scar who was too messed up to go
(09:38):
get the Coke.
So here's the keys and I didn'tknow how to drive stick, so
that ended up in the middle ofthat big intersection in Steiner
Ranch Anybody knows where thatis and that was an embarrassing
moment.
And then kind of just it wasall a big Xanax blur.
Anybody who's done.
(09:58):
Xanax like that knows that youjust don't remember a whole lot.
I do remember waking up.
My parents divorced when I wastwo, and so my mom and stepdad
were living out in Marble Fallsand I remember waking up there
with all my stuff there and justthinking, well, I guess I, I
(10:22):
guess I live here now and justcontinue doing my thing out
there and ended up getting a DWI, and that's when I made the
decision to go to inpatienttreatment for the first time.
So I was 18 when I got sober.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
So let me ask you, as you're a teenager and getting
dropped off at the club, wherethey're doing 12-step meetings
and obviously if you're leavingand getting high during the
meetings, you weren'tnecessarily engaged but at what
point did any of that, if at all, start rubbing off on you and
and how did that impact yourdecision to go get treatment?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
it wasn't.
It wasn't until I was actuallyin treatment.
Okay, um, because in treatmentI had this grand plan, me and
these two other clients, andthey had a grand plan of we were
going to get an apartment inAustin.
Uh, it was going to be a soberapartment but a little bit of
Xanax was allowed and, um, youknow, we have some parameters
(11:18):
around it, right, and um, Istarted going through the steps
with my counselor, who isChristine Calvert.
Anybody knows her.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Are you kidding me?
I used to work with Christineat the Arbor.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
She's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
She lives up here in Oregon now.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, she was my counselor when I was 18, when
she was first starting out.
That's awesome.
So she actually took me throughthe steps the first time while
I was in, while I was in there.
And so those other two clientsleft that we had this whole plan
with, and naturally the planfell apart because none of us
had anything, any money or anyany way to make that happen.
(12:00):
And um, and she said, uh, whatabout?
What about Kerrville?
What about going to do sober,living in Kerrville?
I said I'm going back to Austin, I'm from Austin, I'm an Austin
guy, I was this little hippie,hipster, kid, musician and all
that.
So Kerrville had nothing tooffer me and she said why don't
(12:22):
we work on it a little bit, staya little bit longer?
And so I stayed 39 days intreatment, nine days extra than
I was supposed to, Because atthat point she had me working on
my fourth step.
And the fourth step blew my mind.
Anybody who doesn't know whatthe fourth step is it's when you
take a personal inventory.
(12:43):
You look at all yourresentments, your fears, your
relationships, stuff like that.
But I didn't know what the wordresentment meant.
And I wasn't an angry person,Of course not.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, I wasn't angry, but when- I just listened to
Finish Death Metal and cutmyself.
I'm not angry.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Oh, it's sad.
It's sad.
It was the pain.
You know it turns into.
It manifests in different ways.
Sure, a lot of people it comesout as anger, but Christine
actually told me.
She said if you're not angry,that's okay.
Let's look at the wordresentment.
(13:25):
You know where does it comefrom, what's the etymology
around it.
You know it comes from the wordreason, toray, which is to
refill in Latin.
And so she asked me are you,are you still feeling anything
from from your past?
And I just broke down.
I was like I'm feelingeverything.
(14:05):
No-transcript, I'm still inKerrville and I had found, I
guess I was 18.
You know, I didn't really havea life back here in Austin.
I mean, my life was, uh, theguy.
I was the guy in Cedar park who, uh, who you could get some
stuff from.
(14:26):
That was it Um.
And so I'd found my tribe.
You know we hear that all thetime and and and uh program.
I found my people and that'sreally what happened is, uh, I
found people that I could relatewith and relate to Um.
And you know, I found uh, Ifound a group and a calling and
(14:48):
started working in treatment,started working at the treatment
center that I went to as soonas I won't say any names as soon
as they turned a blind eye anddidn't wait the two years to
hire me and went ahead andstarted as the overnight PhD and
I was the cool tech back then.
(15:09):
I was the one that all theclients loved because I didn't
follow all the rules, being 19at that point, yeah.
But yeah, I started.
I started working in treatmentat 19 and in operations and so I
did that treatment center,another one, one that you've
(15:29):
worked at, uh, you know all theway up to uh, to when I came
back to Austin after that afterthose three years and was sober
for five and a half years totalat that stint, um, and there's a
.
So I have nine years now andthe big difference and I like to
(15:51):
really emphasize this when Italk with families and coaching
clients is there's nothing wrongwith any way that anybody does
the steps or works the programor anything like that.
What can be dangerous is whenyou say it's the only way that
(16:13):
it can be done.
And the way that I was raised inrecovery in Kerrville was that
this is the way.
At least, that was myperception.
I'm not going to say thatthat's the way it actually was.
But my perception was, you know, I got sober when my space was
(16:36):
around in 07.
And I was so afraid to post mystatus because I had a little
drop down where you had to puthow you feel and if you weren't
happy, joyous and free all thetime, you were doing something
wrong.
Pray about it.
You write some inventory.
(16:56):
You need to go help somebody.
Like you couldn't just sit inyour sadness, like you couldn't
just be sad, you couldn't beangry.
Um and again, that was just myperception of it.
That was the way that Iinternalized it.
And so when I moved back toAustin, there was a big exodus
from Kerrville.
(17:16):
A bunch of us, you know, cameback home here to Austin and I
believe that it was thatrigorous it has to be this way
type of recovery that brought meback out.
I ended up drinking again atfive and a half years sober, and
(17:39):
that's a whole.
The whole relapse was about twoyears, got some extra charges,
caught a couple of felonies, uh,one stint at another treatment
center, homelessness and uh.
And then prison.
Prison was my, my first year ofsobriety this time and uh, it
(18:00):
was for uh, like unauthorizeduse of a credit card and uh
possession, okay.
But during that relapse waswhen I found IV methamphetamine
use and that's a whole differentmonster.
That took me down.
In about nine months I gotpicked up by Curve LPD and you
(18:28):
know, whenever people inmeetings would talk about you
know, using a needle isdifferent than getting sober
from the needle is differentthan other things.
I'd always call them out becauseI'd never used a needle and I'm
like, ah, it's all the same.
It's all the same, call themout because I'd never used a
needle on my eye.
It's all the same, it's all thesame.
It's really.
You know, you look at the waythat and with what we do like.
(18:50):
That's why it's so importantfor for us to really understand
and get a full, full picture,detailed picture of what's
really going on, what the personis really using, how, how
they're using it, what, whattheir whole I can't think of the
word what their whole kind ofritual, their whole thing is.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Have you ever seen that movie, the Salton Sea, with
Val Kilmer and VincentD'Onofrio?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
No.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Man.
I have never seen a movie thatdepicts as accurately as that
one does what it's like to be anIV methamphetamine user and be
in that world.
It's so incredibly accurate andgraphic.
Now don't get me wrong, it's aHollywood movie and there's some
sensationalism there.
But if anybody wants to kind ofget a snapshot into what
(19:42):
methamphetamine-inducedpsychosis looks like, go watch
that movie.
The Salton Sea and and uh,trust me, it's uh, you know I
didn't see it until after I gotsober, but but man, is it
accurate?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, I haven't seen the movie, but I mean I trust
you it is.
It is a very scary, scary time.
I guess it's a good opportunityto kind of talk about that,
because that is a big thing witha lot of the families that I
work with and that I know youwork with too.
Is that?
Is there mental health involvedin this?
(20:19):
Because not only does methcause psychosis, but Delta-8,
Delta-9 can cause psychosis.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
THC.
I see a lot of THC and dopsychosis right now.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah, Just weed drinking when you drink over a
prolonged period of time,anything that keeps you up or
brings you down and keeps youout of equilibrium for any
period of time, anything thatkeeps you up or brings you down
and keeps you out of equilibriumfor any period of time can
cause psychosis, and I thinkthat's probably so.
(20:54):
I also do mental healthinterventions.
So people with schizophrenia,schizoaffective disorders,
thought disorders, I do that aswell and I think that's probably
why, because I I relate withbeing out of this reality that
much to the point where thehouse that I was squatting and
(21:15):
was you know how, to how toempty the lot behind it, and I
would, I would look out thereand there'd be all of these
people, just shadows of people,and they were there.
I mean, they were there, man,they weren't just like, oh yeah,
like they were there and, uh,they would chase me, they.
(21:37):
It's scary stuff.
It is, um, very, very scary.
And which is another reason whyit's really helpful, important
because there was a mentalhealth aspect.
Uh, the lead interventionist onit uh allowed the family to
(22:12):
execute it that day.
Uh, shouldn't have been donethat day.
Uh, I ended up chasing this kidup like seven flights of stairs
and tackling him to the groundas he was going over the railing
, and so, yeah, bad things canhappen if, uh, that's not done
(22:35):
thoughtfully and, you know,carefully and just in an
educated way.
You.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Well, I know you.
You had started kind of talkingabout your relapse and getting
introduced into, you know thethe world of IV meth use and
having had some time in prison.
But how long after you got outof prison and at what point did
you decide?
You know what I want to getinto intervention work and what
was your path into this kind ofinto this field?
Speaker 3 (23:03):
So when I got out because I had been in recovery
for for five years before and soit's all I really knew, it's
all the people that I knew.
And so when I got out thatthose are the people that I went
back to, and uh, one of mybuddies uh was like hey, why
don't you come to recovery inthe Park?
(23:23):
I'll introduce you to my boss.
I just started working at thiscool new treatment center.
I immediately got back intotreatment.
Having felonies and a reallydark past really helps when
you're trying to get a job at atreatment center.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It's almost a prerequisite.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
It definitely is.
We don't want any of thoseclean-cut people.
We need people that have donesome time.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
When the interview question is how badly did you
burn your life to the ground andhave you done?
Speaker 3 (23:54):
it badly enough.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
You know you're in good company.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I started working at atreatment center here in Austin.
I worked at several when Imoved back to Austin before
relapsing.
Then when I got out of prison,my buddy who actually funny
story I used to sponsor him.
Then after I relapsed hesponsored me.
(24:21):
So we had a little switcheroothere.
Okay, he sponsored me, and sothey had a little little
switcheroo there.
Okay, um and uh, so I startedworking in treatment again back
in operations.
That's all I really knew, um,and I started getting started
getting a little bit moreeducated on the clinical side of
things, on the uh, the um, uh,regulation side of things, uh,
(24:43):
kind of looking at the wholepicture of a treatment center
and worked at several differentplaces, up to, you know,
director of marketing, directorof operations, executive
director, and the higher I hire,the more positions I change,
(25:03):
the further away I got from, youknow, the actual clients.
I did schedule time in mycalendar to go walk around the
facility to to meet with peopleand talk with people, um, and
through some some decisions thatwere not mine, uh, you know, I
I was allowed to take a stepback and look at what do I
(25:30):
really want to do?
Is this the road that I want tostay on, or do I want to seek
out something else?
And so I had a couple offriends who had been doing
coaching for a little bitrecovery coaching and so I said
you know what?
That's actually exactly why Istarted working in treatment.
(25:51):
You know, because everybodystarts out as a tech, right?
You know the guy, the personthat's driving the van to the
meetings.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
That's where I started, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yeah, and you're, you're there with the clients,
you're talking with them and youknow they're asking you
questions about recovery or notrecovery.
And you're there with theclients, You're talking with
them and they're asking youquestions about recovery or not
recovery and you're justbuilding rapport and talking
with them.
I was like that's what I'mgoing to do.
So I started my company, HelmRecovery, and I'm on IOC and
(26:20):
we're all individual providerson there and we're all
individual providers on there.
I started home recovery back in2020 during COVID I think it was
right after the height of COVIDand started out with coaching.
And then I started looking atmy experience in the treatment
(26:42):
industry and it's all coaching,it's all AMA blocking and and
working with the families andtalking with you.
Know, it all kind of comes intothis, what we do here, Um, and
so I got certified as a uh, I'ma nationally certified recovery
coach and nationally certifiedintervention professional, and
(27:07):
so what brought me into this isall of that, yeah, All of that
and then some.
And since then, I've workedwith families all over the
country and a lot of familieshere, local in Austin, With IOC.
We have people all over thecountry and so it's really cool
(27:29):
to have a really wide network.
A really wide net, Um, but yeah, that's uh kind of how I got
where I'm at now.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Well, it's been my pleasure to work with you at
intervention on call and to toyou know, we do these every
Thursday night.
We do a free friends and familysession where anybody who's got
a loved one in crisis in activeaddiction can come and and get
some live coaching from one ofus or many of us, depending on
how many of the interventionistsare on the call that night.
But you've been on many of thesame coaching sessions that I've
(28:03):
been on and it's just beenreally good to hear you give
families feedback and we're soaligned in many of the things
that we are doing with families.
But I can honestly say thatI've learned a lot by hearing
you talk to families and I thinkyou're a real asset to the
families that we get on thatplatform.
And I do just want to say thankyou for the influence that you
(28:26):
bring to the group and to thoseThursday night calls, and
anybody in the Austin area orelsewhere in the country who you
know feels like Lane might beable to help them with their
loved one.
I want to encourage you toreach out to him.
I'll put your contactinformation for Helm Recovery.
I'll put your page onintervention on call in the show
notes.
So so people know how to getahold of you and I just think
(28:48):
that you're a phenomenalinterventionist but just a
really good human being.
You and I have had opportunitiesto speak about other things
besides business along the way,and just you know you're a
mountain of a man.
You know.
You know you're a mountain of aman, you know in a physical way
(29:08):
, but you're also just a veryyou bring a sensitivity that I
don't think a lot of peopleexpect from a man that looks
like you.
Uh, that has kind of thebackground that you have.
You know, not not many men whohave gone to prison feel very
comfortable sitting down andtalking about their feelings or
letting other people talk abouttheir feelings.
And you know you, you just youpossess a lot of qualities that
(29:28):
just make you a goodinterventionist and a good human
being, and I'm I'm lucky tocount you as a friend and I hope
that anybody listening to thistoday can can really, if they
feel like Lane is a good fit, tohelp their son or their
daughter or their loved one.
I wouldn't, I would neverhesitate to to encourage someone
to to reach out to you and askfor your help, and so I just
(29:49):
want to thank you for being onhere with me today and thank you
for being my friend.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Thank you.
Thank you, man.
Those are a lot of kind wordsand you're going to make me cry
here now.
Well, well well deserved.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Well deserved, every one of them.
And yeah, is there anything youknow before we sign off today?
Is there anything that you wantto want to share with families,
or any any final words here?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yeah, I think.
I think it's usually what kindof what we say on the Thursday
night meetings is if you feelthat there's a need for reaching
out to one of us, don't waitfor something bad to happen to
do it.
Reach out now, even if it'sjust for coaching or just a
conversation, just kind of seewhere you stand.
If you wait for something badto happen, then that bad thing
(30:33):
will have happened and thenyou'll take action.
So those are my closingstatements, but I really
appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Absolutely, and thank you to everybody who stuck with
us for the last half hourlistening to us and until next
time everybody stays over.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atpartywreckerscom and remember
(31:16):
don't enable addiction ever.
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