April 22, 2024 • 36 mins
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Embarking on a heartfelt journey through the world of addiction and recovery, Sam arrived in Houston to be inspired by Brené Brown's powerful dialogue on vulnerability and shame. With that energy, we bring you an episode that not only educates but also provides a guiding light for families navigating the intervention process. RuthAnn Rigby and Eric Button, two luminaries in the field, are names you might hear us mention as we recount the vibrant recovery landscape of Houston, and tease potential future dialogues with such esteemed colleagues.
As your guides, we lay bare the misconception that interventions are battlegrounds, and instead, illuminate them as beacons of compassion where families learn to set boundaries and strategies for enduring wellness. Imagine a roadmap that leads beyond the threshold of treatment facilities and stretches into the vast terrain of lifelong recovery. That's the vision we share with you, reinforced by insights and real-life experiences that shape our discussion on how to support not just the individual in treatment but the entire family unit on their collective journey to healing.
Finally, the episode takes a deeper look at the transformation within families as they engage with the intervention process. The atmosphere leading up to intervention day is fraught with anticipation, but we discuss how families can remain unshaken, even when facing the storms of manipulation or debate. We also reflect on the profound influence of Brené Brown's teachings, underscoring the importance of combating shame and embracing authenticity for true healing. Join us for this episode where wisdom, passion, and the pursuit of a shame-free existence converge to empower you and your loved ones on the path to recovery.
Join us Every Sunday at 8:00 PM PST and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday Night at 8:00 PM EST/5:00PST for a FREE family support group. Register at the following link to get the zoom information sent to you: Family Support Meeting
About our sponsor(s):
Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist. While a professional intervention can be a powerful experience for change, not every family needs a professionally led intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professional intervention, we can help. Hour sessions are $150.
Therapy is a very important way to take care of your mental health. This can happen from the comfort of your own home or office. If you need therapy and want to get a discount on your first month of services please try Better Help.
If you want to know more about the host's private practice please visit:
Matt Brown: Freedom Interventions
Follow the host on TikTok
Matt: @mattbrowninterventionist
If you have a question that we can answer on the show, please email us at matt@partywreckers.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Who's our next guest?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
We got no one.
We need a new format.
We should shut down and retool.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
professional interventionistsMatt Brown and Sam Davis.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism and are
reluctant to get the help thatthey need.
We hope to educate andentertain you while removing the
(00:33):
fear from the conversation.
Stay with us and we'll get youthrough it.
Please welcome the partywreckers, matt Brown and Sam
Davis.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Welcome back everybody.
My name is Matt Brown and I'mhere with Sam Davis.
We're so glad you decided tojoin us for this next episode of
our podcast.
Thanks for being here, sam.
How's everything?
You're in Houston tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, coming to you not live, but coming to you from
downtown Houston, texas,getting ready to listen to.
I was invited down to listen toBrene Brown to see her in
person and listen to her talktomorrow at a conference, so I'm
really excited about that.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I'm a little jealous, I'm a little envious.
She is one of my favoriteauthors and I'm glad you get a
chance to be there and hear herspeak.
You're going to have a goodtime absolutely I'm.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Uh, it's been very pleasurable so far meeting some
people and going out to dinner,and it's a good time.
It's a good time.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
There's a group of you that that you, you, I mean
you, and I know some of the samepeople there's, but there's a
group down there going to seeher right yeah, yeah, it's uh in
the spring.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Ah gosh, I'm, I'm to get reprimanded for this.
I don't know of the springcouncil or the recovery council.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Oh, ok, yeah, they're the Houston Council.
Yeah, they're.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
They're like an outpatient program down there in
the Houston area, if I remembercorrectly 1,500 people coming
to see her and it's here at theHilton in downtown Beautiful
hotel.
I've never stayed here before.
And tomorrow at 11 o'clock, by1,500 people are going to
descend at Work and BehavioralHealth or in recovery themselves
and I'm going to listen toBrene Brown.
(02:15):
That's awesome.
We've got some mutual friendsof ours.
Ruthann Rigby has been aroundhere for a long time and just a
wonderful, wonderful lady Fullof great energy.
We've got Courtney that invitedme down.
She's with Black Horse Health.
I got to spend some time withher Great, great woman.
And Eric Button is here.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
He's a guy that we need to get on here.
We need Eric.
We've talked about him a fewtimes on here and I think we're
doing the world a disservice bykeeping him from being heard by
I don't want to say the masses,because we're not being listened
to by masses by any stretch,but I think the people that do
tune into us would certainly geta kick out of Aaron.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Absolutely, absolutely.
He's one I've had my eye on.
I want to get on here for sure.
It's just nailing him down.
He travels all the time.
He's just nailing him down, hetravels all the time.
He's just a bundle of energyand positive energy.
He's just a great demonstrationof what freedom and recovery
looks like really is Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Absolutely.
Well, before we launch intothis, let's plug the training
here for the last time.
This is really the last timewe're going to have a chance to
talk about the training inPortland Oregon.
It's happening a week fromSaturday.
About the training in PortlandOregon.
It's happening a week fromSaturday.
Oh, I guess Alexa had wanted,wanted to chime in there as well
.
Um, here in my office I got, Igot, uh, one of those devices
(03:34):
and apparently she'seavesdropping on us tonight.
Um, but yeah, april 27th and28th, portland Oregon.
Um, at Cielo treatment center,sam and I are going to be there.
It's going to be here in abouta week.
We're going to be descending onthe city of Portland and
training some people who want tolearn about intervention work
and admissions work and justworking with families in crisis.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
It's the first one we've had out on the West Coast
and I'm looking forward to it.
Looking forward to it.
It's really not my stompinggrounds out there, that's yours.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
It is.
It is and and you know, just toprepare you, portland's a
little bit of a of a differentuh universe than than what you
might be used to.
Um, I think that, uh, let'sjust put it this way I look
forward to seeing some of yourreactions as we, as we, are in
and around Portland this nextweekend.
It's going to be fun to justkind of watch you be in Portland
.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So we may.
This is like littleMyers-Gosling, or what is it
country, myers-gosling city.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Something like that.
Something like that.
It's an experience.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, I can't wait.
I've heard a lot about it.
You know you got to remember nowI sobered up in Austin, texas,
and Austin is the most I sayliberal city in the South.
I have seen some things and itreally opened my eyes to a lot
I'm so grateful for because Irealized that through my
addiction and living where Ilived I traveled some but I
(04:58):
still had a lot of beliefsystems that kept me in a know
and sobering up in a city or anarea with a bunch of different
people from differentbackgrounds and experience, and
all that Really opened my eyesand awakened you know an
(05:20):
openness to other things.
you know if that makes any sense, it does.
I'm trying to be very delicatehere in what I say.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
No, no, no, you're good.
I mean the thing that that Ihave the hardest time with when
I go to Portland and I'm thereall the time for work.
And you know we're not, I don'tlive, but you know, a couple
hours from Portland buteverybody there rides bikes on
purpose and I've never quiteunderstood that, because where I
come from, you ride a bikebecause you've lost your
driver's license.
You know a bike is a penalty,but people in Portland like to
(05:50):
ride bikes for fun, as just amode of transportation, and that
never.
That never really made sense tome.
I'm always worried.
I'm always worried I'm going torun somebody over.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, when where I'm from, if you're riding a bicycle
, you got a DUI Exactly,multiple DUIs, Multiple, exactly
.
Yeah, that's fun, that is funny.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Well, it'll be nice to see you in person and
hopefully the next episode werecord we'll be sitting in a
hotel room together doinganother one, just like we did
back in January.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Most definitely.
Yeah, I look forward to it.
Man, it's always nice to towork with you and be face to
face with you and get out andtrain some people.
It is a good time.
And I was telling him tonightcause, you know, everybody at
the table was like hey yeah,you're doing those trainings.
That's great, that's awesome.
We want to get you down hereand y'all can do a training here
.
I mean, we'd love.
I said, well, texas is you know?
We have a big turnout in Texasevery time we're here.
(06:44):
And I said, you know, we'venever had a bad review of our
trainings Never.
And I enjoy doing them, youenjoy doing them.
We mesh very well and wecompliment each other really
well and I'm you know I'mtickled to do it Very grateful
to have the opportunity to do it.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Very grateful to have the opportunity.
Yeah, and just as a side note,if you happen to see Rob Park at
the get together tomorrow, talkto him about, because he had
asked about hosting one of ourtrainings this year at Luna
there in Houston.
So if you happen to run intohim, let him know that we'd love
to have him host us and see howmany people we can get to come
out for that one.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Sure, absolutely will .
Before we get started, rememberintervention on call.
It's where not every familyneeds an intervention, but every
single family that's dealingwith someone that's struggling
with deep emotional pain that'sresulting in addictions in some
way, shape, form or fashion.
Families need guidance and we Ido, we develop this to you know
(07:46):
enable families to geton-demand sessions with
intervention professionals thataren't there to sell you an
intervention or sell you atreatment program.
We're there to just give youguidance in the hour and what
you need in the situation thatyou face.
It's I just's, it's a goodthing.
I believe it's the best thingto hit addiction treatment since
, um, since, um, hell, I don'tknow.
(08:09):
I was going to say sliced bread, but sliced bread didn't hit
addiction treatment.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
So I think it takes away a lot of the fear and the
intimidation from theconversation for families.
You know, kind of like whatwe're trying to do with with
this podcast is just really takeaway some of the mystery and
take away some of the fear fromthe conversation, because
families even tonight I wasdoing the friends and family
Thursday night call just beforeyou and I hopped on here tonight
(08:34):
and we had somebody new on thesession tonight.
I had a few, but one inparticular just really felt like
her family wasn't going toreally want to jump in and do an
intervention because of thispreconceived idea of what they
felt like an intervention wasgoing to be that was just going
to be a lot of conflict and thatit would just kind of quickly
(09:00):
spiral out of control if thefamily tried to get together and
do this, spiral out of controlif the family tried to get
together and do this.
And I think that you know whatwe do there on intervention on
call and prep and families, andeven in the Thursday night
meetings that we do with friendsand families.
I think that it just takes awaya lot of that mystery and
really kind of establishes whatan intervention actually is and
especially what it's not if it'sdone well.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well, what is friends and family, man?
I mean, we're talking about it,but I don't think we've told
anyone that listens to thepodcast exactly what you're
doing on Thursday nights at 8o'clock Eastern time.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
All right, well, I will explain it.
Thank you for the segue.
There, every Thursday night, 8pm Eastern, 5 pm Pacific, we do
an hour for free, onintervention, on call Anybody
who has a loved one in activeaddiction who's in treatment.
We have several families thatcome on a regular basis whose
(09:51):
loved ones are already intreatment and they're just
wanting to get some supportaround boundaries and really
kind of talk about okay, whatare some of the next steps we
need to be looking at how do wekeep the jersey wall, as you
talked about looking at, how dowe keep the?
The Jersey wall is as youtalked about last week.
How do we keep that Jersey walltight and strong?
You know, and and so we we talkwith families as a group, but
(10:14):
we we talk with familiesindividually for the benefit of
the group, about specificcircumstances going on so that
we can coach them in real timeon how to help their loved ones,
whether they're in treatment orprior to going to treatment.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
You know, man, that's really why I started doing
podcasts with you.
That's why I got on socialmedia to begin with.
Not why I got on social media,but why I'm on social media a
lot, why I started putting upvideos.
Because, just like you weresaying about this, family had a
preconceived idea about what anintervention was.
(10:49):
A vast majority of thepopulation has that same idea
that it's just going to be thisbig blow up, that it's
confrontational, that it's.
You know they're going to stormout and it's all about anger
and yelling and screaming and itwon't work.
They're going to storm out andit's all about anger and yelling
and screaming and it won't work.
So, really, like, my passion isgetting out here and letting
people know that it's just notthat way and really there's so
(11:19):
many professionals that work inbehavioral health that don't
know what an intervention is andthe more we can educate people
that you know it doesn't looklike someone screaming and
yelling.
It doesn't even have to looklike a professional showing up,
but the family can get someguidance to help pull them out
of their own weeds.
You know, help get them out oftheir own weeds and give them
(11:39):
some strategy, give them a map,give them a destination.
Most people that I talk to on aninitial session or at their
family and friends, or the firstcall that I said, well, have
you?
We've been dealing with this along time?
They say, everyone says thatwe've been dealing with this for
years.
And I'm like, do you have aplace lined up that you would
like them to go?
(12:00):
And they say no.
I said, well, you don't have adestination.
You first let's get adestination, because without a
destination you're just kind ofwandering around.
But if we can get a destination, then it's about okay, how do
we get there?
And then you start plotting acourse of what it's supposed to
look like and what turn shouldwe do here and where do we exit
(12:22):
here and what way do we go?
Do we go north, south, east,like you got a destination, then
you can build the map to it.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
That's a great analogy, because if you're
telling people, if everybody hasa compass, and you say, okay, I
want everybody to set yourcompass to 129 degrees and I
want you to chart a course andeverybody follow that heading
and go at 129 degrees, they maynot all get to the same
destination because they may bestarting out at different points
(12:51):
and and it's it's not justabout saying, hey, we want to
get them to treatment, that Imean you could say that and
everybody might say, yeah, okay,let's, let's do that, let's get
them to treatment.
But unless you have a clearstarting point and a heading on
how to get there and sometimessomebody to guide you through
that, people are going to getseparated and lost along the way
(13:11):
, even though the heading is thesame, the goal is the same.
You know what I mean?
Oh, yeah, absolutely somethingthat I think you and I both have
seen, not just with thefamilies we've worked with but
with the other providers on theplatform that so many families
have been able to find a way toget help without ever having to
(13:32):
actually go to the expense ofhiring somebody like you or me,
and you know we can talk aboutwhat treatment programs are
going to be the good fit.
We can talk about which familymembers like.
There's so many differentthings that we're able to work
through with some of thesefamilies that just clear the
water, that just all of a suddenit's like, okay, now we have a
way forward and it's.
(13:54):
It's just been, it's a greatidea.
I'm so glad you came up with itand I'm so glad that I get to
be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Man, I am so grateful you are as well and you know,
when you said something verypowerful just a moment ago, as
you said, that their goal is toget someone to treatment, and
that's a, that's a and, and ofcourse I get it because families
are in the crisis and they'rein the mayhem and they're like
Jesus, they would just go totreatment.
We'd we'd have some freedom,we'd have some relief, like,
(14:21):
just go to treatment, but theyget stuck on that nearsighted
goal.
The result of an intervention,93% of the time, is they go to
treatment, but that's just whereit starts.
Like you want the family andthis is what I press to my
families that call and get onsessions with me is like, look,
wellness is the goal, familywellness is your target.
(14:42):
The stop for that, for one ofyour loved ones in this family
group, is treatment.
But it has to go beyond that.
It moves beyond treatment, itmoves past that.
This is a journey.
So don't put your eye sight,don't put your crosshair so near
(15:02):
sighted as just treatment,because what they'll fall into
is well, johnny went totreatment, he's home, let's go
back to the way things were,minus the drugs and alcohol.
And then the next thing youknow, they're so shocked that
the drugs and alcohol have madetheir way back in Right.
And in these sessions that we'redoing like I had one last night
(15:26):
and like 15 minutes in becauseI'd had a previous session with
them this time we incorporatedmore family members they were
able to incorporate more familymembers because it wasn't a hey,
will you be a part of anintervention.
It was about, hey, would you geton a call with a professional
and let him hear what he has tosay and see what we can do?
And they were all on board forthat.
There was no pressure aboutthem feeling like they were
(15:48):
being sold an intervention.
In fact, I grow to probablygreater lengths than I should
because at 15 minutes in they'relike, yeah, no, we're going to
want you to come out, and I'mlike, well, you may, but let's
investigate this further to seeif maybe you really definitely
do want me to come out.
Let me explain things all theway.
Let me show you and explain toyou what it would look like if
(16:11):
you guys did it on your own,what to look out for, and then
see what would happen if you hada professional come out and
then you make your decision.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, and they made their decision.
And that's what I tell familiesall the time.
It's like, let's do this first,and that's what I tell families
all the time.
It's like let's do this firstand then, once you have all the
information, then you get todecide, having all the
information at your disposal,whether or not you think you can
do this yourself or not.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Our job is to give the information, not sell
anything.
I agree, matt.
I want to speak on this alittle bit because it's really
important to me and I hope thatit's appropriate.
But I'm going to be completelytransparent.
When I'm historicallyinterventionist, you get a call
(16:57):
and you're on the phone with afamily for an hour and, as a
human being, that's an hour ofyour time, or an hour and a half
of your time, and then maybeanother hour phone call and you
haven't been compensated foryour time, or an hour and a half
of your time, and then maybeanother hour phone call and you
haven't been compensated foryour time.
So you start feeling a littledebt, like, hey, because this is
how we feed our families, thisis how I pay my bills, this is
my living, it's my occupationand that's okay, it's absolutely
(17:22):
okay for that.
But I get, as a human'm likeall right, man, I gotta.
I gotta try and close this caseand I find myself like it's it
falls into somewhat of a salesyand I don't.
I didn't like that, I didn'tlike that.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
This what do I have to do to get you to drive off
the lot today in this beautyright?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I mean not like that you know, I know, I know I'm
making light of it.
But it is like hey, you know,look, you booked an appointment.
Let me give you the informationEveryone is more relaxed and
more it's more productive,absolutely more productive.
My families, I've found sincesessions on IOC when it comes to
(18:07):
intervention day or therehearsal, they're much more
prepared, oh yeah, they're muchmore engaged.
I've seen that too.
The fear of intervention is offthe table.
They're nervous about what'sgoing to happen the unknown, but
they're not freaking out comeintervention day.
(18:27):
They're more engaged, moreprepared.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And part of our job too, especially in that that
rehearsal the night before, isto really infuse the situation
with as much confidence and calmenergy as we can, because I've
experienced that the moreanxiety and the more fear people
walk into that room with, themore powerful this problem is
(18:50):
becoming before anybody openstheir mouth.
And so if that person who werethere to really love in that
moment, if they can experiencethat just in people's behaviors,
like I'm glad to be here, I'mreally glad to be here and be a
part of this with you, withoutsaying a word, just being able
to show that in the way thatthey show up and the way that
(19:11):
they're giving that person a hugand there's just this
fearlessness to it, it reallydisarms the majority of that
fear of that front end part ofthe conversation of okay, what's
going to happen when they findout this is an intervention?
Well, they already know it's sorare that I show up and
(19:33):
somebody's like is everybodyokay?
What's going on?
Is somebody in the hospital?
Did somebody die?
They always know it's anintervention.
That's a dead giveaway, exactly.
Well, here's the people thatI'm closest to in my life and a
total stranger that looks likehe knows what he's here to talk
about.
So this is an intervention theyalways know.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah, yeah, they know .
They know and they have alittle fear even beforehand that
one's coming.
You know, they know.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Oh yeah.
Yeah, I mean, how many timeshave you heard a family say you
know, hey, they'll, sam, I thinkthey know something's going on.
Well, what do you mean?
Well, they just told me that ifI'm thinking about doing an
intervention, I better not.
They're going to be really madat me and it's like that's
fantastic, that's awesome.
(20:23):
The fact that they're awarethat an intervention might be
coming tells me that they knowexactly that that's what they
need.
Yep.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Definitely need Yep, definitely, definitely, yeah,
you know I had one book todayfor an actual intervention, but
they can't do it until May 1stto get everybody together and
all which is you know thatusually doesn't go out that long
.
It's usually for me.
I want to average about fourdays time on book time we do the
intervention.
But they're like, well, wecan't do it till May 1st.
(20:52):
And I was like, well, that'sokay.
I mean, as long as you guysaren't concerned, that you know
we'll burn the house down or youknow that there's she's
physically safe or they'rephysically safe or he's
physically safe, then you knowwe can do that.
We'll monitor the situation.
We have to jump in quicker.
We will, but this time willgive us some time for you to
communicate with your loved onein a different manner over a
period of time.
So they'll know that things inthe family are changing, that
(21:16):
they're going to be more likelyto believe you when you approach
them on intervention day.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
When you have a family like that and I have this
on a pretty regular basis wherethey'll say, okay, we want to
do this, but we can't do thisfor a number of days or weeks,
how does that change the way youprep a family?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I have them.
Well, I'll give them the letterformat, but I let them know.
I said, look, you're more thanlikely not going to work on this
letter until just a couple ofdays before the intervention,
because you're going to betossing around and really I
don't really want you to startthe letter right now.
I want you to start just beingaware of what's going on around,
(21:58):
to raise your awareness, makenotes.
You have plenty of time to makenotes and thoughts and put them
on paper and then, a couple ofdays for the intervention, you
can compile them and then getyour letter and then at the
rehearsal, we'll go over it andput it all together in a better
way.
But I also have them.
We all get on a group text, allthe members of the team and I.
(22:21):
You know, look, I like to getmy interventions done.
I have some fear sometimes thatfamilies will start getting
cold feet because the crisis isor the event.
The further away you get fromthe event you know they can be
like oh well, you know it's.
You know it really wasn't thatbad, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
He really seems like he's doing better.
Oh yeah, he's doing great, andthe whole reason is because the
family's starting to getprepared, they're starting to
get organized and all of asudden, that energy is in the
home or wherever the environmentis.
That person just absorbs thatenergy and it's like wait a
minute, something's goingdifferent here.
Yeah, they know it, yeah, andso of course, they're going to
(23:03):
start showing up differentlywithout saying a word and the
family's picking up on that.
It's like, wait a minute, he'sstarting to do a little bit
better.
I'm like okay, here's why.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , I see that all the time yeah,
I check in with them every dayor have them check in with me,
and you know any communicationthey have, I have them.
You know, attempt to use textas as much as they can.
I know when they're in the homeit it's hard to do that and
that's impossible.
But you know, if you startfeeling yourself getting pulled
(23:32):
down a rabbit hole with debateor pulled into some manipulation
and you know when it's comingexit the situation for a little
bit, say you'll be right backwith them, get on the phone with
me, back away, let's get somestrategy and an effective
response.
And you know it gives me morelive time in action for them to
(23:56):
practice what we're going to dowith the intervention.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, yeah, I I.
The only thing that I dodifferently is that I have them
start writing their lettersright away, and and the reason
is what you are had already saidis that I have them start
writing their letters right away, and the reason is what you had
already said is that I wantthem engaged in some sort of
action.
So I also want them preppedearly so that, let's say, we're
(24:20):
doing this on May 1st.
In your situation, you and Iboth know that the possibility
of a crisis is not, it's likelythere, you know.
That's kind of what got them tothe point where they're talking
to us in the first place, andso I like to get them prepared
early as far as the homeworkgoes and just kind of the nuts
(24:41):
and bolts of the intervention,so that in the event that
there's a crisis if there's, youknow, they get picked up by the
, by police, or if they end upin the hospital, or if something
happens everybody's ready.
All we have to do is change ourtimeline, and it seems to keep
people on track, it seems tokind of focus those thoughts
early on in the process, andthen it's just about making sure
(25:02):
that we kind of keep thatmomentum going without losing
traction, and it will generally.
If I start to see them like,well, he's doing better, I'm
like, well, three days ago, yousent me a copy of your letter.
Why don't you go back and readthat and tell me three days ago
how things were looking?
And?
And then let's, let's, let'stalk about.
Do you remember what you wrote?
And?
And it's like, in three days,you're changing, your energy
(25:26):
starting to shift, and yourloved ones picking up on that,
and so, of course, they'restarting to adapt as well.
It's only normal, and so whatyou're seeing is the results of
the work that we're about to do,even though we haven't done it
yet.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
And that is brilliant , matt Brown, very simple but
brilliant.
We've scrambled to write someletters at some times.
I think that I'm really glad Iknow you.
You make me a betterinterventionist bud.
Likewise.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Likewise.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
We complement each other.
Well, it seems, we were meantto do this together.
We were Absolutely.
Way back in the beginning ofwhen we first met, back in 2009.
Yeah 2009 or 2010.
Somewhere along there.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, I think it was 2010.
No, it was 2009 because it wasin Elgin Texas.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, I just didn't know if you were there because I
entered in 2009.
I didn't know if you were inthe beginning of the new year or
towards the end of the.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
It was towards the end yeah.
I think it was early December.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Okay, yeah, 2009, it was, man.
I'm so grateful for that time.
You know you've been a goodfriend to me, matt.
You know, coming out to to myuh, you traveled all the way
across the country to to be withme and and my dad's time of
passing and and I'll neverforget that.
And I really uncomfortable tobe honest with you because deep
(26:54):
down inside you know, look, I'ma man of freedom and a man of
sobriety and I pride myself onseeking God and being at peace
and, you know, and being OK withmyself and being authentic, and
but deep down inside there wasa piece of me that felt I didn't
deserve that and I know BreneBrown talks about that a lot the
(27:14):
shame and feeling unworthy andour value, and that's why I
can't wait to hear her tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Why do you think shame is such a problem,
especially for those of us thatstruggle with mental health or
addiction issues?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Why do I think shame is such a big issue with mental
health or addiction issues?
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Why do I think shame is such a big it's?
It's well, I mean humans,humans in general, but I think
it it it manifests differentlyfor those of us that deal with
substance abuse or alcohol abuse.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you.
Look, my anger can escalatesometimes, but nothing spirals
like shame with me.
I mean quick, quick andpowerful, like it'll.
I mean it's like it's likeshooting down a plane and it
going into it.
That's how fast.
I can spiral into shame deeply.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Well, I don't want to do her any injustices by trying
to paraphrase some of thethings that she's written, but
you know, in know, in her herwritings on shame, she talks a
lot about which I think she sherefers to him as, like the
gremlins, the shame gremlins,and, and you know, when she
starts to go into that spiral,she kind of describes it.
As you know, the gremlins areactive and the, the thought
processes that surround that andyou know, not being good enough
(28:28):
and comparing ourselves toother people and and you know,
just all of these barriers to Imean, really, because she talks
so much about shame andauthenticity, I think she really
looks at shame as a barrier toauthenticity and when we are
being authentic, we're really inthe least amount of shame and,
(28:50):
and I struggle with that all thetime, you know, whether it's
I'm comparing myself to otherpeople, or trying to to act in a
perfectionistic way, or justtrying to look cool and be in
control, or you know, whateverit is like, it's all a barrier
to authenticity and and she doesa great job of really
explaining how that correlateswith shame.
And so if, if, for those of youwho are listening, if you don't
(29:13):
know who Brene Brown is.
I would recommend the firstbook that you pick up of hers be
the gifts of imperfection.
That book I read it a couple ofyears ago for the first time and
my life has not been the samesince.
It's a wonderful, wonderfulbook and it's about a four hour
audio book.
She, she narrates it herselfand that's generally how I will
listen to it.
But I'll listen to it probablyonce a quarter just to kind of
(29:35):
remind myself of it.
And I travel a lot, as do you,and a lot of times when I'm
driving around in the car goingto and from an intervention or
to and from an airport, that'sgenerally when I'll pop in an
audio book and she's one of myfavorites.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Let me ask you something.
Matt has putting up videocontent on social media
platforms and catching some hate.
You know all the trolls andstuff has that.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
How has that helped you in your shame or being
authentic or your value ofyourself?
The trap that I fall into isthat I look for value in the
response that I get to my videossometimes, and if I don't get
the response that I'm lookingfor, or if I catch some hate, if
I let that define my value, I'min big trouble, just like with
anything else anybody's reactionto my life.
You know, I can fall into thattrap.
And if I'm, if I'm seekingapproval and that's why I'm
(30:30):
doing it or if I recognize like,ooh, it'd be really nice if I
got, you know, a lot, of, a lotof response to this video, if a
lot of people watch it, or if alot of people like it or you
know, whatever that is, ifthat's my thought going into it,
man, I can get twisted uppretty quickly.
Um, if I do it because, hey, youknow what this is, this is a
(30:54):
thought that's really profoundto me right now.
This is a thought that I findmyself thinking about, and maybe
somebody else might get somevalue out of this too Then then
my mindset is different and Ican go in there and I can
separate myself from thereactions and just say you know
what?
This is the thought that I have.
I'm going to put it out thereinto the world and let it live
on its own.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, it's really helped me.
You know, the more I do and Iguess the older I get in, the
more it's been a really a trialby fire with with social media
and being authentic and beingvulnerable and putting yourself
out there like that and allowingthose creative juices to flow.
And then you get the hate.
(31:35):
You know, and it's been vitalto my growth to get the hate it
really has.
Now, I'm not inviting hate in,I don't think that.
You know, I don't wanteverybody to go out there and
just give me a bunch of shit onsocial media, but you know it's
inevitable.
It's going to happen with me,put content out on social media,
(31:55):
but it's.
It's really helped me Like Idon't give two shits what anyone
thinks about me most of thetime, most of the time now.
Right, you know so.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Well, I'm like I said , I'm I'm envious that you're
going to get a chance to go seeher live, get a selfie with her,
send it to me, hope, hope, it'sfun and, yeah, I'd love to
catch up with you next week whenwe do our session from our do
(32:30):
our weekly recording from.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
You know, the worst thing about traveling for work
for me, when I've got an eventthat I got to wear a button up
shirt is I like to travel light.
I carry a bag, not a suitcase,and I folded up my good shirt
from home and I chunked it intothe bag and I know sure as shit
that it's going to be completelywrinkled.
When I was in Charlotte AirportI stopped by a shirt shop in
(32:59):
the airport, saw a lady in there.
I said I saw some shirts.
They're a little pricey causethey're in the airport.
I said look, I tell you what Isaid.
Can you fold this shirt If I buyit?
Can you fold it in such a wayand put it in something in such
a way that I won't have to ironit when I get to my destination?
She said absolutely, and thislady was an absolute, probably
some ocd stuff, but she was aperfectionist in her shirt
folding.
I came out of this store withthree shirts and a pair of pants
(33:21):
, folded perfectly, pulled themout of the bag.
I don't have to iron shit.
I am completely cool andcomfortable and I'm gonna
they're still.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
They're still sitting in your bag waiting for you to
wear them in portland, or youget them today and uh in on your
way to houston here, she packed, she folded them up, packed
them up.
I'm gonna look at that brown.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I found this go man, I'm not even gonna pack a
button-up shirt, I'm just gonnabuy one at the airport gonna buy
shirts every time you travel,because because man, look, I
carry the, the downy fat, youknow, wrinkle free.
But that, yeah, it works great.
But you know, when you reallyneed that, you need that I'm.
(34:03):
I can't do that on the road,that's me.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I can't, you know well, you just have to stop
giving a shit and stop ironing.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
I don't know when the last time I ironed a shirt was
yeah, but you're not showing upanytime that I've been where you
are, when you've traveled to meor we've met wherever and
you've flown.
You don't have wrinkles all inyour shirt.
Your shit looks like it justcame out the dry cleaners.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
The best I do is I hang it up in the closet the
night before when I get in, andand that's that's about all I do
.
And if it's still wrinkled inthe morning, I'll, you know,
hang it up in the in thebathroom somewhere while I'm
showering with that steamy, youknow, the, the steam going on,
and hopefully it comes out, butI don't know that I've ever.
I'm trying to remember the lasttime.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
So there you go.
I don't know how I ironed myshirt for you, sam.
Thank you.
See, I'm undeserving, matt.
I don't even know how we gotonto that, but thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
You deserve every bit of it and I'm the one who
benefits, I think, more than youdo from this friendship.
But thank you, sam Dude, Iappreciate you.
I appreciate you.
I'll see you in about a week.
Yeah, I'm excited.
Yeah, man.
All right, guys, we'll talk toyou again soon.
Be well.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Thanks again for listening to the party records.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(35:46):
don't enable addiction ever.
On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Let's talk again soon.
Who's our next guest?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
We got no one.
We need a new format.
We should shut down and retool.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
professional interventionistsMatt Brown and Sam Davis.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism and are
reluctant to get the help thatthey need.
We hope to educate andentertain you while removing the
(00:33):
fear from the conversation.
Stay with us and we'll get youthrough it.
Please welcome the partywreckers, matt Brown and Sam
Davis.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Welcome back everybody.
My name is Matt Brown and I'mhere with Sam Davis.
We're so glad you decided tojoin us for this next episode of
our podcast.
Thanks for being here, sam.
How's everything?
You're in Houston tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, coming to you not live, but coming to you from
downtown Houston, texas,getting ready to listen to.
I was invited down to listen toBrene Brown to see her in
person and listen to her talktomorrow at a conference, so I'm
really excited about that.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I'm a little jealous, I'm a little envious.
She is one of my favoriteauthors and I'm glad you get a
chance to be there and hear herspeak.
You're going to have a goodtime absolutely I'm.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Uh, it's been very pleasurable so far meeting some
people and going out to dinner,and it's a good time.
It's a good time.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
There's a group of you that that you, you, I mean
you, and I know some of the samepeople there's, but there's a
group down there going to seeher right yeah, yeah, it's uh in
the spring.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Ah gosh, I'm, I'm to get reprimanded for this.
I don't know of the springcouncil or the recovery council.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Oh, ok, yeah, they're the Houston Council.
Yeah, they're.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
They're like an outpatient program down there in
the Houston area, if I remembercorrectly 1,500 people coming
to see her and it's here at theHilton in downtown Beautiful
hotel.
I've never stayed here before.
And tomorrow at 11 o'clock, by1,500 people are going to
descend at Work and BehavioralHealth or in recovery themselves
and I'm going to listen toBrene Brown.
(02:15):
That's awesome.
We've got some mutual friendsof ours.
Ruthann Rigby has been aroundhere for a long time and just a
wonderful, wonderful lady Fullof great energy.
We've got Courtney that invitedme down.
She's with Black Horse Health.
I got to spend some time withher Great, great woman.
And Eric Button is here.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
He's a guy that we need to get on here.
We need Eric.
We've talked about him a fewtimes on here and I think we're
doing the world a disservice bykeeping him from being heard by
I don't want to say the masses,because we're not being listened
to by masses by any stretch,but I think the people that do
tune into us would certainly geta kick out of Aaron.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Absolutely, absolutely.
He's one I've had my eye on.
I want to get on here for sure.
It's just nailing him down.
He travels all the time.
He's just nailing him down, hetravels all the time.
He's just a bundle of energyand positive energy.
He's just a great demonstrationof what freedom and recovery
looks like really is Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Absolutely.
Well, before we launch intothis, let's plug the training
here for the last time.
This is really the last timewe're going to have a chance to
talk about the training inPortland Oregon.
It's happening a week fromSaturday.
About the training in PortlandOregon.
It's happening a week fromSaturday.
Oh, I guess Alexa had wanted,wanted to chime in there as well
.
Um, here in my office I got, Igot, uh, one of those devices
(03:34):
and apparently she'seavesdropping on us tonight.
Um, but yeah, april 27th and28th, portland Oregon.
Um, at Cielo treatment center,sam and I are going to be there.
It's going to be here in abouta week.
We're going to be descending onthe city of Portland and
training some people who want tolearn about intervention work
and admissions work and justworking with families in crisis.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
It's the first one we've had out on the West Coast
and I'm looking forward to it.
Looking forward to it.
It's really not my stompinggrounds out there, that's yours.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
It is.
It is and and you know, just toprepare you, portland's a
little bit of a of a differentuh universe than than what you
might be used to.
Um, I think that, uh, let'sjust put it this way I look
forward to seeing some of yourreactions as we, as we, are in
and around Portland this nextweekend.
It's going to be fun to justkind of watch you be in Portland
.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So we may.
This is like littleMyers-Gosling, or what is it
country, myers-gosling city.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Something like that.
Something like that.
It's an experience.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, I can't wait.
I've heard a lot about it.
You know you got to remember nowI sobered up in Austin, texas,
and Austin is the most I sayliberal city in the South.
I have seen some things and itreally opened my eyes to a lot
I'm so grateful for because Irealized that through my
addiction and living where Ilived I traveled some but I
(04:58):
still had a lot of beliefsystems that kept me in a know
and sobering up in a city or anarea with a bunch of different
people from differentbackgrounds and experience, and
all that Really opened my eyesand awakened you know an
(05:20):
openness to other things.
you know if that makes any sense, it does.
I'm trying to be very delicatehere in what I say.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
No, no, no, you're good.
I mean the thing that that Ihave the hardest time with when
I go to Portland and I'm thereall the time for work.
And you know we're not, I don'tlive, but you know, a couple
hours from Portland buteverybody there rides bikes on
purpose and I've never quiteunderstood that, because where I
come from, you ride a bikebecause you've lost your
driver's license.
You know a bike is a penalty,but people in Portland like to
(05:50):
ride bikes for fun, as just amode of transportation, and that
never.
That never really made sense tome.
I'm always worried.
I'm always worried I'm going torun somebody over.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, when where I'm from, if you're riding a bicycle
, you got a DUI Exactly,multiple DUIs, Multiple, exactly
.
Yeah, that's fun, that is funny.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Well, it'll be nice to see you in person and
hopefully the next episode werecord we'll be sitting in a
hotel room together doinganother one, just like we did
back in January.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Most definitely.
Yeah, I look forward to it.
Man, it's always nice to towork with you and be face to
face with you and get out andtrain some people.
It is a good time.
And I was telling him tonightcause, you know, everybody at
the table was like hey yeah,you're doing those trainings.
That's great, that's awesome.
We want to get you down hereand y'all can do a training here
.
I mean, we'd love.
I said, well, texas is you know?
We have a big turnout in Texasevery time we're here.
(06:44):
And I said, you know, we'venever had a bad review of our
trainings Never.
And I enjoy doing them, youenjoy doing them.
We mesh very well and wecompliment each other really
well and I'm you know I'mtickled to do it Very grateful
to have the opportunity to do it.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Very grateful to have the opportunity.
Yeah, and just as a side note,if you happen to see Rob Park at
the get together tomorrow, talkto him about, because he had
asked about hosting one of ourtrainings this year at Luna
there in Houston.
So if you happen to run intohim, let him know that we'd love
to have him host us and see howmany people we can get to come
out for that one.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Sure, absolutely will .
Before we get started, rememberintervention on call.
It's where not every familyneeds an intervention, but every
single family that's dealingwith someone that's struggling
with deep emotional pain that'sresulting in addictions in some
way, shape, form or fashion.
Families need guidance and we Ido, we develop this to you know
(07:46):
enable families to geton-demand sessions with
intervention professionals thataren't there to sell you an
intervention or sell you atreatment program.
We're there to just give youguidance in the hour and what
you need in the situation thatyou face.
It's I just's, it's a goodthing.
I believe it's the best thingto hit addiction treatment since
, um, since, um, hell, I don'tknow.
(08:09):
I was going to say sliced bread, but sliced bread didn't hit
addiction treatment.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
So I think it takes away a lot of the fear and the
intimidation from theconversation for families.
You know, kind of like whatwe're trying to do with with
this podcast is just really takeaway some of the mystery and
take away some of the fear fromthe conversation, because
families even tonight I wasdoing the friends and family
Thursday night call just beforeyou and I hopped on here tonight
(08:34):
and we had somebody new on thesession tonight.
I had a few, but one inparticular just really felt like
her family wasn't going toreally want to jump in and do an
intervention because of thispreconceived idea of what they
felt like an intervention wasgoing to be that was just going
to be a lot of conflict and thatit would just kind of quickly
(09:00):
spiral out of control if thefamily tried to get together and
do this, spiral out of controlif the family tried to get
together and do this.
And I think that you know whatwe do there on intervention on
call and prep and families, andeven in the Thursday night
meetings that we do with friendsand families.
I think that it just takes awaya lot of that mystery and
really kind of establishes whatan intervention actually is and
especially what it's not if it'sdone well.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well, what is friends and family, man?
I mean, we're talking about it,but I don't think we've told
anyone that listens to thepodcast exactly what you're
doing on Thursday nights at 8o'clock Eastern time.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
All right, well, I will explain it.
Thank you for the segue.
There, every Thursday night, 8pm Eastern, 5 pm Pacific, we do
an hour for free, onintervention, on call Anybody
who has a loved one in activeaddiction who's in treatment.
We have several families thatcome on a regular basis whose
(09:51):
loved ones are already intreatment and they're just
wanting to get some supportaround boundaries and really
kind of talk about okay, whatare some of the next steps we
need to be looking at how do wekeep the jersey wall, as you
talked about looking at, how dowe keep the?
The Jersey wall is as youtalked about last week.
How do we keep that Jersey walltight and strong?
You know, and and so we we talkwith families as a group, but
(10:14):
we we talk with familiesindividually for the benefit of
the group, about specificcircumstances going on so that
we can coach them in real timeon how to help their loved ones,
whether they're in treatment orprior to going to treatment.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
You know, man, that's really why I started doing
podcasts with you.
That's why I got on socialmedia to begin with.
Not why I got on social media,but why I'm on social media a
lot, why I started putting upvideos.
Because, just like you weresaying about this, family had a
preconceived idea about what anintervention was.
(10:49):
A vast majority of thepopulation has that same idea
that it's just going to be thisbig blow up, that it's
confrontational, that it's.
You know they're going to stormout and it's all about anger
and yelling and screaming and itwon't work.
They're going to storm out andit's all about anger and yelling
and screaming and it won't work.
So, really, like, my passion isgetting out here and letting
people know that it's just notthat way and really there's so
(11:19):
many professionals that work inbehavioral health that don't
know what an intervention is andthe more we can educate people
that you know it doesn't looklike someone screaming and
yelling.
It doesn't even have to looklike a professional showing up,
but the family can get someguidance to help pull them out
of their own weeds.
You know, help get them out oftheir own weeds and give them
(11:39):
some strategy, give them a map,give them a destination.
Most people that I talk to on aninitial session or at their
family and friends, or the firstcall that I said, well, have
you?
We've been dealing with this along time?
They say, everyone says thatwe've been dealing with this for
years.
And I'm like, do you have aplace lined up that you would
like them to go?
(12:00):
And they say no.
I said, well, you don't have adestination.
You first let's get adestination, because without a
destination you're just kind ofwandering around.
But if we can get a destination, then it's about okay, how do
we get there?
And then you start plotting acourse of what it's supposed to
look like and what turn shouldwe do here and where do we exit
(12:22):
here and what way do we go?
Do we go north, south, east,like you got a destination, then
you can build the map to it.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
That's a great analogy, because if you're
telling people, if everybody hasa compass, and you say, okay, I
want everybody to set yourcompass to 129 degrees and I
want you to chart a course andeverybody follow that heading
and go at 129 degrees, they maynot all get to the same
destination because they may bestarting out at different points
(12:51):
and and it's it's not justabout saying, hey, we want to
get them to treatment, that Imean you could say that and
everybody might say, yeah, okay,let's, let's do that, let's get
them to treatment.
But unless you have a clearstarting point and a heading on
how to get there and sometimessomebody to guide you through
that, people are going to getseparated and lost along the way
(13:11):
, even though the heading is thesame, the goal is the same.
You know what I mean?
Oh, yeah, absolutely somethingthat I think you and I both have
seen, not just with thefamilies we've worked with but
with the other providers on theplatform that so many families
have been able to find a way toget help without ever having to
(13:32):
actually go to the expense ofhiring somebody like you or me,
and you know we can talk aboutwhat treatment programs are
going to be the good fit.
We can talk about which familymembers like.
There's so many differentthings that we're able to work
through with some of thesefamilies that just clear the
water, that just all of a suddenit's like, okay, now we have a
way forward and it's.
(13:54):
It's just been, it's a greatidea.
I'm so glad you came up with itand I'm so glad that I get to
be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Man, I am so grateful you are as well and you know,
when you said something verypowerful just a moment ago, as
you said, that their goal is toget someone to treatment, and
that's a, that's a and, and ofcourse I get it because families
are in the crisis and they'rein the mayhem and they're like
Jesus, they would just go totreatment.
We'd we'd have some freedom,we'd have some relief, like,
(14:21):
just go to treatment, but theyget stuck on that nearsighted
goal.
The result of an intervention,93% of the time, is they go to
treatment, but that's just whereit starts.
Like you want the family andthis is what I press to my
families that call and get onsessions with me is like, look,
wellness is the goal, familywellness is your target.
(14:42):
The stop for that, for one ofyour loved ones in this family
group, is treatment.
But it has to go beyond that.
It moves beyond treatment, itmoves past that.
This is a journey.
So don't put your eye sight,don't put your crosshair so near
(15:02):
sighted as just treatment,because what they'll fall into
is well, johnny went totreatment, he's home, let's go
back to the way things were,minus the drugs and alcohol.
And then the next thing youknow, they're so shocked that
the drugs and alcohol have madetheir way back in Right.
And in these sessions that we'redoing like I had one last night
(15:26):
and like 15 minutes in becauseI'd had a previous session with
them this time we incorporatedmore family members they were
able to incorporate more familymembers because it wasn't a hey,
will you be a part of anintervention.
It was about, hey, would you geton a call with a professional
and let him hear what he has tosay and see what we can do?
And they were all on board forthat.
There was no pressure aboutthem feeling like they were
(15:48):
being sold an intervention.
In fact, I grow to probablygreater lengths than I should
because at 15 minutes in they'relike, yeah, no, we're going to
want you to come out, and I'mlike, well, you may, but let's
investigate this further to seeif maybe you really definitely
do want me to come out.
Let me explain things all theway.
Let me show you and explain toyou what it would look like if
(16:11):
you guys did it on your own,what to look out for, and then
see what would happen if you hada professional come out and
then you make your decision.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, and they made their decision.
And that's what I tell familiesall the time.
It's like, let's do this first,and that's what I tell families
all the time.
It's like let's do this firstand then, once you have all the
information, then you get todecide, having all the
information at your disposal,whether or not you think you can
do this yourself or not.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Our job is to give the information, not sell
anything.
I agree, matt.
I want to speak on this alittle bit because it's really
important to me and I hope thatit's appropriate.
But I'm going to be completelytransparent.
When I'm historicallyinterventionist, you get a call
(16:57):
and you're on the phone with afamily for an hour and, as a
human being, that's an hour ofyour time, or an hour and a half
of your time, and then maybeanother hour phone call and you
haven't been compensated foryour time, or an hour and a half
of your time, and then maybeanother hour phone call and you
haven't been compensated foryour time.
So you start feeling a littledebt, like, hey, because this is
how we feed our families, thisis how I pay my bills, this is
my living, it's my occupationand that's okay, it's absolutely
(17:22):
okay for that.
But I get, as a human'm likeall right, man, I gotta.
I gotta try and close this caseand I find myself like it's it
falls into somewhat of a salesyand I don't.
I didn't like that, I didn'tlike that.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
This what do I have to do to get you to drive off
the lot today in this beautyright?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I mean not like that you know, I know, I know I'm
making light of it.
But it is like hey, you know,look, you booked an appointment.
Let me give you the informationEveryone is more relaxed and
more it's more productive,absolutely more productive.
My families, I've found sincesessions on IOC when it comes to
(18:07):
intervention day or therehearsal, they're much more
prepared, oh yeah, they're muchmore engaged.
I've seen that too.
The fear of intervention is offthe table.
They're nervous about what'sgoing to happen the unknown, but
they're not freaking out comeintervention day.
(18:27):
They're more engaged, moreprepared.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And part of our job too, especially in that that
rehearsal the night before, isto really infuse the situation
with as much confidence and calmenergy as we can, because I've
experienced that the moreanxiety and the more fear people
walk into that room with, themore powerful this problem is
(18:50):
becoming before anybody openstheir mouth.
And so if that person who werethere to really love in that
moment, if they can experiencethat just in people's behaviors,
like I'm glad to be here, I'mreally glad to be here and be a
part of this with you, withoutsaying a word, just being able
to show that in the way thatthey show up and the way that
(19:11):
they're giving that person a hugand there's just this
fearlessness to it, it reallydisarms the majority of that
fear of that front end part ofthe conversation of okay, what's
going to happen when they findout this is an intervention?
Well, they already know it's sorare that I show up and
(19:33):
somebody's like is everybodyokay?
What's going on?
Is somebody in the hospital?
Did somebody die?
They always know it's anintervention.
That's a dead giveaway, exactly.
Well, here's the people thatI'm closest to in my life and a
total stranger that looks likehe knows what he's here to talk
about.
So this is an intervention theyalways know.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah, yeah, they know .
They know and they have alittle fear even beforehand that
one's coming.
You know, they know.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Oh yeah.
Yeah, I mean, how many timeshave you heard a family say you
know, hey, they'll, sam, I thinkthey know something's going on.
Well, what do you mean?
Well, they just told me that ifI'm thinking about doing an
intervention, I better not.
They're going to be really madat me and it's like that's
fantastic, that's awesome.
(20:23):
The fact that they're awarethat an intervention might be
coming tells me that they knowexactly that that's what they
need.
Yep.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Definitely need Yep, definitely, definitely, yeah,
you know I had one book todayfor an actual intervention, but
they can't do it until May 1stto get everybody together and
all which is you know thatusually doesn't go out that long
.
It's usually for me.
I want to average about fourdays time on book time we do the
intervention.
But they're like, well, wecan't do it till May 1st.
(20:52):
And I was like, well, that'sokay.
I mean, as long as you guysaren't concerned, that you know
we'll burn the house down or youknow that there's she's
physically safe or they'rephysically safe or he's
physically safe, then you knowwe can do that.
We'll monitor the situation.
We have to jump in quicker.
We will, but this time willgive us some time for you to
communicate with your loved onein a different manner over a
period of time.
So they'll know that things inthe family are changing, that
(21:16):
they're going to be more likelyto believe you when you approach
them on intervention day.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
When you have a family like that and I have this
on a pretty regular basis wherethey'll say, okay, we want to
do this, but we can't do thisfor a number of days or weeks,
how does that change the way youprep a family?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I have them.
Well, I'll give them the letterformat, but I let them know.
I said, look, you're more thanlikely not going to work on this
letter until just a couple ofdays before the intervention,
because you're going to betossing around and really I
don't really want you to startthe letter right now.
I want you to start just beingaware of what's going on around,
(21:58):
to raise your awareness, makenotes.
You have plenty of time to makenotes and thoughts and put them
on paper and then, a couple ofdays for the intervention, you
can compile them and then getyour letter and then at the
rehearsal, we'll go over it andput it all together in a better
way.
But I also have them.
We all get on a group text, allthe members of the team and I.
(22:21):
You know, look, I like to getmy interventions done.
I have some fear sometimes thatfamilies will start getting
cold feet because the crisis isor the event.
The further away you get fromthe event you know they can be
like oh well, you know it's.
You know it really wasn't thatbad, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
He really seems like he's doing better.
Oh yeah, he's doing great, andthe whole reason is because the
family's starting to getprepared, they're starting to
get organized and all of asudden, that energy is in the
home or wherever the environmentis.
That person just absorbs thatenergy and it's like wait a
minute, something's goingdifferent here.
Yeah, they know it, yeah, andso of course, they're going to
(23:03):
start showing up differentlywithout saying a word and the
family's picking up on that.
It's like, wait a minute, he'sstarting to do a little bit
better.
I'm like okay, here's why.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , I see that all the time yeah,
I check in with them every dayor have them check in with me,
and you know any communicationthey have, I have them.
You know, attempt to use textas as much as they can.
I know when they're in the homeit it's hard to do that and
that's impossible.
But you know, if you startfeeling yourself getting pulled
(23:32):
down a rabbit hole with debateor pulled into some manipulation
and you know when it's comingexit the situation for a little
bit, say you'll be right backwith them, get on the phone with
me, back away, let's get somestrategy and an effective
response.
And you know it gives me morelive time in action for them to
(23:56):
practice what we're going to dowith the intervention.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, yeah, I I.
The only thing that I dodifferently is that I have them
start writing their lettersright away, and and the reason
is what you are had already saidis that I have them start
writing their letters right away, and the reason is what you had
already said is that I wantthem engaged in some sort of
action.
So I also want them preppedearly so that, let's say, we're
(24:20):
doing this on May 1st.
In your situation, you and Iboth know that the possibility
of a crisis is not, it's likelythere, you know.
That's kind of what got them tothe point where they're talking
to us in the first place, andso I like to get them prepared
early as far as the homeworkgoes and just kind of the nuts
(24:41):
and bolts of the intervention,so that in the event that
there's a crisis if there's, youknow, they get picked up by the
, by police, or if they end upin the hospital, or if something
happens everybody's ready.
All we have to do is change ourtimeline, and it seems to keep
people on track, it seems tokind of focus those thoughts
early on in the process, andthen it's just about making sure
(25:02):
that we kind of keep thatmomentum going without losing
traction, and it will generally.
If I start to see them like,well, he's doing better, I'm
like, well, three days ago, yousent me a copy of your letter.
Why don't you go back and readthat and tell me three days ago
how things were looking?
And?
And then let's, let's, let'stalk about.
Do you remember what you wrote?
And?
And it's like, in three days,you're changing, your energy
(25:26):
starting to shift, and yourloved ones picking up on that,
and so, of course, they'restarting to adapt as well.
It's only normal, and so whatyou're seeing is the results of
the work that we're about to do,even though we haven't done it
yet.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
And that is brilliant , matt Brown, very simple but
brilliant.
We've scrambled to write someletters at some times.
I think that I'm really glad Iknow you.
You make me a betterinterventionist bud.
Likewise.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Likewise.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
We complement each other.
Well, it seems, we were meantto do this together.
We were Absolutely.
Way back in the beginning ofwhen we first met, back in 2009.
Yeah 2009 or 2010.
Somewhere along there.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, I think it was 2010.
No, it was 2009 because it wasin Elgin Texas.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, I just didn't know if you were there because I
entered in 2009.
I didn't know if you were inthe beginning of the new year or
towards the end of the.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
It was towards the end yeah.
I think it was early December.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Okay, yeah, 2009, it was, man.
I'm so grateful for that time.
You know you've been a goodfriend to me, matt.
You know, coming out to to myuh, you traveled all the way
across the country to to be withme and and my dad's time of
passing and and I'll neverforget that.
And I really uncomfortable tobe honest with you because deep
(26:54):
down inside you know, look, I'ma man of freedom and a man of
sobriety and I pride myself onseeking God and being at peace
and, you know, and being OK withmyself and being authentic, and
but deep down inside there wasa piece of me that felt I didn't
deserve that and I know BreneBrown talks about that a lot the
(27:14):
shame and feeling unworthy andour value, and that's why I
can't wait to hear her tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Why do you think shame is such a problem,
especially for those of us thatstruggle with mental health or
addiction issues?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Why do I think shame is such a big issue with mental
health or addiction issues?
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Why do I think shame is such a big it's?
It's well, I mean humans,humans in general, but I think
it it it manifests differentlyfor those of us that deal with
substance abuse or alcohol abuse.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you.
Look, my anger can escalatesometimes, but nothing spirals
like shame with me.
I mean quick, quick andpowerful, like it'll.
I mean it's like it's likeshooting down a plane and it
going into it.
That's how fast.
I can spiral into shame deeply.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Well, I don't want to do her any injustices by trying
to paraphrase some of thethings that she's written, but
you know, in know, in her herwritings on shame, she talks a
lot about which I think she sherefers to him as, like the
gremlins, the shame gremlins,and, and you know, when she
starts to go into that spiral,she kind of describes it.
As you know, the gremlins areactive and the, the thought
processes that surround that andyou know, not being good enough
(28:28):
and comparing ourselves toother people and and you know,
just all of these barriers to Imean, really, because she talks
so much about shame andauthenticity, I think she really
looks at shame as a barrier toauthenticity and when we are
being authentic, we're really inthe least amount of shame and,
(28:50):
and I struggle with that all thetime, you know, whether it's
I'm comparing myself to otherpeople, or trying to to act in a
perfectionistic way, or justtrying to look cool and be in
control, or you know, whateverit is like, it's all a barrier
to authenticity and and she doesa great job of really
explaining how that correlateswith shame.
And so if, if, for those of youwho are listening, if you don't
(29:13):
know who Brene Brown is.
I would recommend the firstbook that you pick up of hers be
the gifts of imperfection.
That book I read it a couple ofyears ago for the first time and
my life has not been the samesince.
It's a wonderful, wonderfulbook and it's about a four hour
audio book.
She, she narrates it herselfand that's generally how I will
listen to it.
But I'll listen to it probablyonce a quarter just to kind of
(29:35):
remind myself of it.
And I travel a lot, as do you,and a lot of times when I'm
driving around in the car goingto and from an intervention or
to and from an airport, that'sgenerally when I'll pop in an
audio book and she's one of myfavorites.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Let me ask you something.
Matt has putting up videocontent on social media
platforms and catching some hate.
You know all the trolls andstuff has that.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
How has that helped you in your shame or being
authentic or your value ofyourself?
The trap that I fall into isthat I look for value in the
response that I get to my videossometimes, and if I don't get
the response that I'm lookingfor, or if I catch some hate, if
I let that define my value, I'min big trouble, just like with
anything else anybody's reactionto my life.
You know, I can fall into thattrap.
And if I'm, if I'm seekingapproval and that's why I'm
(30:30):
doing it or if I recognize like,ooh, it'd be really nice if I
got, you know, a lot, of, a lotof response to this video, if a
lot of people watch it, or if alot of people like it or you
know, whatever that is, ifthat's my thought going into it,
man, I can get twisted uppretty quickly.
Um, if I do it because, hey, youknow what this is, this is a
(30:54):
thought that's really profoundto me right now.
This is a thought that I findmyself thinking about, and maybe
somebody else might get somevalue out of this too Then then
my mindset is different and Ican go in there and I can
separate myself from thereactions and just say you know
what?
This is the thought that I have.
I'm going to put it out thereinto the world and let it live
on its own.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, it's really helped me.
You know, the more I do and Iguess the older I get in, the
more it's been a really a trialby fire with with social media
and being authentic and beingvulnerable and putting yourself
out there like that and allowingthose creative juices to flow.
And then you get the hate.
(31:35):
You know, and it's been vitalto my growth to get the hate it
really has.
Now, I'm not inviting hate in,I don't think that.
You know, I don't wanteverybody to go out there and
just give me a bunch of shit onsocial media, but you know it's
inevitable.
It's going to happen with me,put content out on social media,
(31:55):
but it's.
It's really helped me Like Idon't give two shits what anyone
thinks about me most of thetime, most of the time now.
Right, you know so.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Well, I'm like I said , I'm I'm envious that you're
going to get a chance to go seeher live, get a selfie with her,
send it to me, hope, hope, it'sfun and, yeah, I'd love to
catch up with you next week whenwe do our session from our do
(32:30):
our weekly recording from.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
You know, the worst thing about traveling for work
for me, when I've got an eventthat I got to wear a button up
shirt is I like to travel light.
I carry a bag, not a suitcase,and I folded up my good shirt
from home and I chunked it intothe bag and I know sure as shit
that it's going to be completelywrinkled.
When I was in Charlotte AirportI stopped by a shirt shop in
(32:59):
the airport, saw a lady in there.
I said I saw some shirts.
They're a little pricey causethey're in the airport.
I said look, I tell you what Isaid.
Can you fold this shirt If I buyit?
Can you fold it in such a wayand put it in something in such
a way that I won't have to ironit when I get to my destination?
She said absolutely, and thislady was an absolute, probably
some ocd stuff, but she was aperfectionist in her shirt
folding.
I came out of this store withthree shirts and a pair of pants
(33:21):
, folded perfectly, pulled themout of the bag.
I don't have to iron shit.
I am completely cool andcomfortable and I'm gonna
they're still.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
They're still sitting in your bag waiting for you to
wear them in portland, or youget them today and uh in on your
way to houston here, she packed, she folded them up, packed
them up.
I'm gonna look at that brown.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I found this go man, I'm not even gonna pack a
button-up shirt, I'm just gonnabuy one at the airport gonna buy
shirts every time you travel,because because man, look, I
carry the, the downy fat, youknow, wrinkle free.
But that, yeah, it works great.
But you know, when you reallyneed that, you need that I'm.
(34:03):
I can't do that on the road,that's me.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I can't, you know well, you just have to stop
giving a shit and stop ironing.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
I don't know when the last time I ironed a shirt was
yeah, but you're not showing upanytime that I've been where you
are, when you've traveled to meor we've met wherever and
you've flown.
You don't have wrinkles all inyour shirt.
Your shit looks like it justcame out the dry cleaners.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
The best I do is I hang it up in the closet the
night before when I get in, andand that's that's about all I do
.
And if it's still wrinkled inthe morning, I'll, you know,
hang it up in the in thebathroom somewhere while I'm
showering with that steamy, youknow, the, the steam going on,
and hopefully it comes out, butI don't know that I've ever.
I'm trying to remember the lasttime.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
So there you go.
I don't know how I ironed myshirt for you, sam.
Thank you.
See, I'm undeserving, matt.
I don't even know how we gotonto that, but thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
You deserve every bit of it and I'm the one who
benefits, I think, more than youdo from this friendship.
But thank you, sam Dude, Iappreciate you.
I appreciate you.
I'll see you in about a week.
Yeah, I'm excited.
Yeah, man.
All right, guys, we'll talk toyou again soon.
Be well.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Thanks again for listening to the party records.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(35:46):
don't enable addiction ever.
On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Let's talk again soon.
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