September 3, 2024 • 40 mins
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Tune into this episode of the Party Wreckers podcast, where we promise you'll gain invaluable insights into the multifaceted world of interventionist training. We're giving you an exclusive preview of our upcoming event in Birmingham, Alabama, and sharing practical tips on blending various intervention models to cater to unique family dynamics. Plus, we dive into the importance of social media and personal branding to help you expand your practice. With our own experiences spotlighting the challenges faced by new interventionists, this episode sets the stage for a toolkit full of knowledge and expertise.
We also sit down with Dr. John Dyben from the Hanley Recovery Center to discuss the pivotal intersection of addiction treatment and mental health care. Discover why a solely 12-step immersion program might not be enough and the necessity of integrating professional healthcare providers, especially for complex cases. We underline the ethical obligation of treatment centers to continually improve through research and patient feedback, advocating for a balanced approach that addresses medical, psychological, and spiritual needs. This conversation is a clarion call for a more holistic healing journey.
Lastly, we explore the transformative power of spirituality in recovery. Understand how healthy spirituality can reconnect and celebrate life, whereas unhealthy practices lead to disconnection. The 12 steps are revealed as a powerful method for fostering spiritual health, and we discuss maintaining spiritual fitness and recognizing signs of spiritual unhealthiness. This episode not only offers profound insights into the spiritual aspect of recovery but also provides resources for those seeking further guidance and support. Join us for a rich discussion that promises to enlighten and empower your journey in the field of intervention.
Join us Every Sunday at 8:00 PM PST and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday Night at 8:00 PM EST/5:00PST for a FREE family support group. Register at the following link to get the zoom information sent to you: Family Support Meeting
About our sponsor(s):
Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist. While a professional intervention can be a powerful experience for change, not every family needs a professionally led intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professional intervention, we can help. Hour sessions are $150.
Therapy is a very important way to take care of your mental health. This can happen from the comfort of your own home or office. If you need therapy and want to get a discount on your first month of services please try Better Help.
If you want to know more about the host's private practice please visit:
Matt Brown: Freedom Interventions
Follow the host on TikTok
Matt: @mattbrowninterventionist
If you have a question that we can answer on the show, please email us at matt@partywreckers.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
professional interventionistsMatt Brown and Sam Davis.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism and are
reluctant to get the help thatthey need.
We hope to educate andentertain you while removing the
(00:25):
fear from the conversation.
Stay with us and we'll get youthrough it.
Please welcome the partywreckers, matt Brown and Sam
Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome back everybody.
You're in for a treat todaybecause you're actually getting
take two of our process here.
We started out here and we werelike seven, eight minutes into
recording this episode and Irealized that I hadn't hit
record yet.
So we've had a little bit ofpractice on this first run.
Before we get into our secondtake of the interview with Dr
John Diben Sam, let's talk alittle bit about our training
(01:03):
coming up in Birmingham, alabama, on October 12th and 13th.
What can people expect to getout of this training if they
decide to join us?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Whether they're a new interventionist or they're an
established interventionist.
You're going to have a lot ofhelpful information given to you
.
It is exciting, it is notboring at all.
It's not like reading tax laws.
We are going to go over thedifferent models of intervention
, how to blend those models andlet the family and the way the
(01:34):
family comes together throughthe entire intervention process,
let the which model do you use?
Unfold.
I see so many interventionists.
They say, well, I only use thismodel, I only use that model,
and I think that you're sellingyourself a little bit short by
doing so.
So our model is hey, whichmodel does this family need?
So we're going to educate youon all models, how to blend them
(01:57):
, how to let them evolve.
We're going to really get intoand you won't get this at any
other training is how to brandyourself effectively on social
media as a private practiceinterventionist.
Social media is where it's at.
It's the holy grail ofmarketing yourself.
(02:17):
Is video content, social mediacontent.
It's absolutely free to put upvideos to get eyeballs on
yourself.
Establish a personal brand.
We're going to get into that.
We're going to get into how dowe expand our income funnel as
interventionists.
Help you broaden that, and it'sjust going to be a good time.
It's going to be a good time.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, and as we've done three trainings up until
now, I think that's the onepiece that we have been missing
in our first three trainings isreally talking more about that,
because so many people will comethrough the training and, as we
do, some of the mentorship andsupervision afterwards.
Most of the questions that I'vebeen hearing is okay, now what?
(02:58):
How do I actually start working?
It doesn't matter how good weare as interventionists.
If nobody knows what we'redoing and how we do it or who we
can help, then we're not goingto be effective, and so I think
that's a really key piece of thetraining that they're going to
get from us.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Most definitely.
It's critical.
I think I mean I got trainedand I know you did as well.
I came home, hung up my shingle, said hey, I'm an
interventionist now and had mylittle laptop and it was silence
.
Now and have my little laptopand it was silence, phones
weren't ringing.
I'm like now, what do I do?
So I took some licks throughthe years.
We both have taken licksthrough the years on how to
brand ourself, how to marketourself, how to get our message
(03:35):
out there.
So we want to pass along thisinformation to you to save you
the licks that we had to take.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
There's been times where I've called my own 800
number on my website just tomake sure it was still working,
like what's going on?
Why is the phone not ringing?
So yeah, I hope this will helpeverybody who wants to come in
and join us.
So if you want to join us, it's$1,000.
It's October 12th and 13th.
We would love to see you thereand hope that you'll join us.
(04:05):
As we get into our interviewtoday we have Dr John Diben and
I want to read his bio from theHanley Center because, as far as
people who have had lettersbehind their names, john may be
the most qualified person thatwe've had yet on the podcast
when it comes to education and Idon't want to miss any of his
(04:26):
accomplishments here.
So let's go here.
It says John is the chiefresearch of innovation at the
Hanley Recovery Center inFlorida.
John provides support totreatment leadership through
research and consultation.
John continually builds uponhis academic expertise through
research and nationwide speakingengagements on health science,
spirituality, clinical ethicsand related topics.
(04:49):
John's academic trainingincludes a Bachelor of Science
in Psychology, a Master of Artsin Conflict Management, a Master
of Science in Management, aDoctor of Health Science and
postgraduate studies inpsychology, philosophy and
religion.
John is a Master CertifiedAddictions Professional and a a
certified mental healthprofessional in the state of
Florida.
He is an internationallycertified alcohol and drug
(05:12):
counselor and a substance abuseprofessional, meeting all
federal DOT qualifications.
John is a musician, writer anda private pilot.
He enjoys spending time withhis family.
John, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Thank you both for having me.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I appreciate it, John welcome to the podcast, thank
you both for having me.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
I appreciate it.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Glad to have you.
The Hanley Center has beenaround for a while.
It's gone through some changes,even recently.
Talk to us a little bit aboutwhere it started and how it
evolved to what it is today.
Sure.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
You know, it really all started with Jack and Mary
Jane Hanley and it's a kind of abeautiful love story.
They fell in love in collegeand Jack.
Eventually after school theygot married and he became the
CEO of Monsanto and said thatthey put Jack in a very you know
, this high executive positionand Mary Jane would do a lot of
entertaining and she's kind ofshy, and so what she realized,
(06:06):
you know, at some point is ifshe knocked a few drinks back,
that she would make a betterhostess, is how she puts it.
What she didn't know is she hadthe predisposition for the
disease of alcoholism and shedeveloped full blown alcoholism.
It almost destroyed theirfamily.
But again, lots of long stories.
But she got treatment and shereally found recovery.
(06:27):
She had that spiritualexperience, that awakening, and
really found something thatchanged her life, changed her
family's life.
They started a foundation, theHanley Family Foundation, that
was really dedicated to helpingfurther the cause, helping
people better understand whataddiction is, how to prevent it
(06:52):
and also how to treat it.
So she became good friends withour former first lady, betty
Ford, who had been through thisherself and and eventually she's
had a house down here, and theydecided, you know we really
want to have a place, uh, inFlorida that treats people with
(07:15):
dignity, that helps people gethealing from addiction and uh,
but helps them in a way thatsays you are are worth, that,
that you have worth and value.
So at the time this is goingback to the late 70s, early 80s
Hazelden was kind of the.
They had the model.
(07:37):
So Hanley got with Hazelden andthey created this place down
here in West Palm Beach, floridacalled Hanley Hazelden at St
Mary's because it's on thecampus of a hospital, and over
the years the key that has beenkind of through this whole no
matter, through all of itschanges.
Mrs Hanley believed thateverything from the flowers to
(08:02):
the environment, to the carpet,to the way people talk to you,
everything here should speak tothe dignity of everyone on this
campus.
And so to this day you know, Iguess I've been here 20 years
there have been wild changesover the years, but one thing
that we've been able to I'vebeen able to see is consistent
(08:24):
is that this is a place thattreats people not just with
scientific evidence andexcellence and treatment
excellence, but that reallyspeaks to the dignity of every
person.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
John, let me ask you you said that the predisposition
early on.
What is that to you?
Can you explain that?
Families hear this all the time, Like, like.
What does that mean?
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (08:52):
So I'm.
I'm the son of two militaryofficers.
My mom was.
My mom is the toughest personto ever walk on the planet, not
the toughest woman, she's thetoughest person to ever walk on
the planet.
My father was a fighter pilotand so I, you know, in my family
, type two diabetes on bothsides of my family, uh, runs
just, it's both.
You know, my parents,grandparents, both sits of
(09:13):
grandparents, and aunts anduncles.
So we know something aboutdiabetes.
We know that diabetes there isa higher likelihood of
developing diabetes if you haveit in your family history.
What does that mean?
It means that thepredisposition, the likelihood
that you will develop a specificcondition is in your genes, is
(09:35):
passed down genetically.
Now, it doesn't mean thatyou're absolutely going to
develop it.
So my mom in her 60s she doesn'ttake care of herself super well
.
In her civilian career she's aneducator and a social worker.
They're real good at takingcare of others but not
themselves and she develops type2 diabetes.
She goes to the doctor.
The doctor said the VA says yougot diabetes.
(09:57):
But you know what Good news Ifyou take care, if you exercise,
change your diet et cetera, youmight be able to manage this
without having to go onmedication and such my mom goes
back six months later she hasn'ttaken care of herself.
It's getting worse, and here'swhat the doctor said to her.
She said, mrs Diven, this inyour genes is a higher
(10:23):
likelihood that you will developdiabetes.
And you know what.
That's not your fault, that'snot your responsibility.
And you know what.
(11:00):
That's not your fault.
That's not your responsibility.
You couldn't control that.
Now, however, you have thisdisease and you do have some
responsibility, and so what thedoctor said is you're not
responsible.
Similarity with a lot of otherdiseases.
We know that, and it startswith twin drank and used the
same amount, and he just stoppedand he's fine.
So I should be able to juststop too, but I can't.
(11:24):
And that's not about a personbeing morally weak, it's not
about a person being.
It's about a person having adisease, and and it's it gets.
You know, when I talk about this, I talk about the dual messages
.
We know that people aregenetically more likely to
(11:48):
develop addiction, that there'sa genetic component to it.
We obviously know that there's.
Also, if you never put a drugor a drink in your body, that
switch would not be turned on.
But the reality is we also livein an environment where putting
(12:08):
things into our bodies is thevast majority of what we do here
in this country.
So when I talk about thepredisposition, addiction by
definition has a geneticcomponent, a psychosocial
component and a psychological,emotional and behavioral
(12:29):
component, so it's not one supersimple thing.
I loved hearing you talk aboutyour training.
That's coming up.
And then what I loved hearingyou say is we actually talk to
families about what kind ofintervention is going to work
best for them, because it's notone simple thing and addiction
(12:49):
as a health condition is verymuch like that one simple thing,
and addiction as a healthcondition is very much like that
.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
So, as you talk about the developing strategies, you
know very few if you guys may beeven the only one that I know
of where you actually have aposition as the director of
innovation and research.
There aren't very many programsthat look at this from a
research standpoint or aninnovation standpoint.
This is an area, an industry,that I don't want to say it
hasn't evolved, but if you goback 30, 40 years into treatment
(13:22):
, much of what you'll see thereis what we're doing today and it
does work.
Don't get me wrong.
When you look at it from aspiritual perspective, from a
12-step perspective, that'stried and true.
But in your role as innovationand research director, what does
that entail and what does thatbring into the treatment process
that you guys do that maybeother people might be missing?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Well, man, I love that question and I think it's a
really important because thistalks to our.
For me, it talks to our moralsand our ethics and what we owe
people.
So I actually give a lecture topatients called Mixed Messages,
Because I'm very aware of thefact that you know we talk about
this as a disease of the brainand we also talk about this as a
(14:07):
spiritual condition, and so youknow what is it?
And the answer is yes, um, it's.
It's funny.
I was talking to a guy namedchris raymer years ago.
He's a good friend of mine andand uh, chris chris was talking
about uh, he said, you know, wetried uh to.
We decided we were just gonnahave a 12-step like only a
(14:30):
12-step immersion program andnothing else and no therapists
and no doctors and no anything,which sounds kind of cool.
And he said it was really cooltill we got our first patient
with an active manic episode,with bipolar disorder, right.
And then we realized, okay, sothere might be more things going
on with some people.
There might be more thingsgoing on with some people.
(14:50):
So, when it comes to, at the endof the day, for many people,
many people get clean, get soberand they never go to treatment.
Many people go to AA, they goto NA and God bless them.
For many, many, many treatmentis a critical life-saving and
(15:17):
not just life like physical life.
But you know what I'm talkingabout.
I mean, like I get not only doI get my physical life back, I
get my relationships back, I getmy self-worth back, I mean.
And so for those people, weunderstand that mental illness
of and addiction, that these areconditions that have changed
(15:39):
the brain, they are impacting anorgan.
So our my responsibility as ahealthcare provider and that's
make no mistake.
If I'm working in a treatmentcenter and I am accepting
insurance or I taking money foryour health care, I am a health
care provider and I actuallywould say, Matt, that the
(15:59):
addiction treatment and I'mputting pointing at me too, and
we have done a poor job.
We have not held ourselves tothe same standards as other
health care.
So you know, any other healthcare, we expect that they are
constantly researching andthey're never saying you know,
(16:20):
good enough is good enough.
They're researching, they're,you know, learning about the
condition, they're improvingtreatments, they're doing those
things.
And there are some places thatare doing some research and such
, but for the most part, you'reright, it's not happening.
So I'm just, I'm really blessed.
I happen to be at a place whereespecially you know, just even
(16:45):
just the past year we have thecenter, which is the treatment
arm, has reconnected with thefoundation, and that's when
research has really been kind oframped up.
I say is really true, because Ibelieve that people get their
(17:11):
lives back and they get a lifeback that's more than they ever
imagined.
That kids get their parentsback, that parents get their
kids back.
These are huge, huge things,and so that's a big
responsibility on us to say howdo we do it the best way?
So one of the things that we'vedone and our philosophy is also
(17:34):
not only how do we do it thebest way, but then how do we
give that information away.
So I'm very, like I said,blessed where our CEO is also a
person who believes in this, andour foundation believes in this
, and Mrs Hanley believes inthis, and so we actively have a
(17:56):
department that is researching,and what we're researching is
we're looking at our outcomes,we're looking at what works and
what doesn't, and we're gettingthe patient's perspective,
family members' perspective, andwe're getting the patient's
perspective, family members'perspective.
We're also doing specificresearch projects to say how can
(18:17):
we improve the relationship,for example, between patient and
therapist, and how much doesthat matter, Are we?
One of the things that we'reworking on right now is an
assessment that will help usunderstand.
One of the things that SAMHSAthe Substance Abuse Mental
Health Services Administration,has said is that trauma-informed
(18:39):
care is going to improveoutcomes, that most patients who
are coming into treatment haveexperienced some sort of trauma
and addressing that in a healthyway is going to help them get
better.
But do you know that there isnot an assessment that asks
patients whether or not that'sbeing effective for them?
So we're creating it.
(19:01):
I could go on and on and on, butthe bottom line is that if what
we are doing is health care,then we have an obligation,
ethically and morally, to holdourselves to the same standard
as anyone treating any otherdisease, whether it's cancer or
diabetes.
We need to be at, you know,holding ourselves to the same
(19:22):
standard.
I'll tell you that.
You know they say really messedup.
People either go into ministryor psychology, and I did both.
So my dual diagnosis is I'mboth clergy and clinician.
So when I get up on a soapboxor start sound like I'm
preaching, just you know,forgive me.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
While you're focusing on outcomes and you're doing
assessments and you're lookingat those relationships between
clinicians and patients, mybelief is that addiction is a
medical disease with a spiritualsolution.
And how do the two coexist inthe same space?
When you're looking at thisfrom a fact space and an
(20:05):
evidence-based perspective, somany of us come into treatment
and the idea of the 12 steps.
For me, I hated the idea of the12 steps.
I had no experience with them,but I knew two things.
I knew they believed they had adisease and I knew they had to
believe in God and I wantednothing to do with either one of
those concepts.
And how?
(20:26):
How do?
Let me, let me, figure out howto ask this question.
Why is spirituality soimportant in the recovery
process?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
it's a great question .
So, first of all, Ifundamentally believe that that
it's not just for the recoveryprocess, that it is life and
death for the recovery process,but but that that, even though
that every single one of us uh,whether are we're afflicted with
chemical dependency oraddiction or other mental health
(20:56):
conditions or anything else, ornot, every one of us has a need
for a healthy spirituality.
And, first of all, how we dealwith that is we put some
definitions around it.
You know, people walk in thedoor with all sorts of
(21:17):
preconceived notions and ideas,and so one of the things is
providing a space for people tosay what their ideas are, to say
those things Like I don't wantanything to do with that God
stuff.
Or sometimes even harder iswhen people say, oh, it's about
God, oh, great, all I need to dois pray and go to church a
little more, and now I'm goingto be great, so I don't need
(21:39):
your intervention, right?
So, either way, and so what wedo is we step back and we define
spirituality and, in essence,the way we define spirituality
is spirituality is most simplydefined as my way of life.
And so, stepping back a littlemore, what does that mean?
(22:03):
First of all, the reason that'sso important is because if
spirituality is simply about myway of life, then I'm no longer
talking about if I'm going toheaven or hell or Sheol or
Valhalla, or whether God ishappy with me or mad at me.
Is my spirituality one that ishealthy or one that's unhealthy,
(22:25):
that we we expand thedefinition a little bit and we
say spirituality is my way oflife, reflected in my thinking,
my speaking, my actions andhere's the kicker in the quality
of my relationships with otherpeople, with myself and with all
(22:48):
of life, including that whichis transcendent for some, some
people that's going to, for somepeople that's going to mean God
, for some people that's goingto mean nature or something, and
they'll move in that direction.
But that definition is a gamechanger and we spend a lot of
time.
So I've just given you you knowit's an hour-long time, you
know group with patients wherewe go through that definition,
(23:11):
group with patients where we gothrough that definition.
But spirituality, we define itas my way of life, reflected in
my thinking, speaking, actionsand in the quality of my
relationships with others, withself and with all of life.
And here's what we say Healthyspirituality is one that is
connected to life, one thatcelebrates life.
Unhealthy spirituality is onethat is disconnected from life,
(23:35):
one that denigrates life.
And so what we mean when we sayso, how can addiction, how can
you have a physical disease witha spiritual solution?
Here's why Because what thisphysical disease does is it
disconnects you from life, whichresults in an unhealthy
(23:58):
spiritual condition.
And so it's not simply aboutgetting your brain cleared of a
drug, it's also about movingtowards reconnecting with life,
so that I can have thatspiritual awakening.
And when we talk about the 12steps, I encourage people to
(24:18):
just sit and look at 12 stepsfor a minute, and what I suggest
is every one of them is arecipe for how to move from
disconnected to connected.
So that very first, you know,we admitted.
What does we admitted mean?
Well, it means that I've beenin denial.
Well, what's denial?
Is it being stupid?
(24:38):
You know we?
You know people will say I wasjust.
I can't believe how dumb I was.
I don't know man, I do nottreat a lot of stupid people.
I don't treat a lot of evilpeople I don't treat.
I treat people who are smart.
So what is it?
What it means is, if I've been,I need to admit because I've
been disconnected.
Everybody around me is tellingme you got to get help, you're
(25:02):
hurting, and I can't hear it,not because I'm dumb, because
I'm disconnected.
And then, if you go through andgo into the fourth step, I'm
learning about reconnecting tomyself and in the fifth step I'm
connecting to others.
Every one of it is a it's likea recipe for how to go from a
(25:28):
life that has become can reallyget into that.
That.
That transcends.
It transcends drug of choice.
It transcends disease condition.
It transcends what yourreligion or what it, because
everyone can relate to beingdisconnected and that need to
(25:49):
move towards connected and thatneed to move towards connected.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
I look at it as we've got an internal constitution
and when everything's lining up,boy, it's glowing.
It's glowing like it's crankedup.
You can hear the hum of it.
Nothing on the street bothersme.
People don't bother you.
I'm not taking thingspersonally.
My house is in order.
No, I'm awake, as the FourAgreements says.
(26:18):
I'm walking around asleep,dreaming.
I'm awake, but I'm awake likeI'm awakened, and I have kids
too.
So I remember SpongeBobSquarePants when Patrick had the
orb of confusion.
It was a little ball.
When you hit the switch,everything got blurry and he
just kind of zoned out and wentto sleep.
He started drooling.
That's me disconnected, the orbof confusion, and anyone that
(26:43):
gets close to me, that reallyloves me and and is close to me,
gets pulled into that orb ofconfusion, and then they
themselves become confused rightyou know I like the way you
said it.
I like your passion around this,john, I really do.
You know you're a guy that'sthat's lavens people up, that
(27:04):
like gets people on the edge oftheir seat going.
Tell me more please, john.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Well, I appreciate that I will.
You know, I have.
I've had enough misery to knowthat I don't want anymore and
and I like I really really wantpeace in my life, and and and I
actually think that most of usthat that's the truth, that what
we really really want is peacein my life, and and and I
actually think that most of usthat that's the truth, that what
we really really want is peacein our lives, and and the only
(27:32):
way that I know how to do it isby by being spiritually healthy.
And and I have it's funny you'dsay, you know, I, I know what I
look like when I'm notspiritually healthy and.
I have to have people around methat that know what I do too,
that know what I look like totell people.
You know, if you start hearingme say that everybody's an idiot
, that's not about everybodybeing an idiot, that's about I'm
(27:57):
not.
I'm not doing my work, I'm notbeing healthy and I'm not in a
spiritually fit place.
And I do get excited about itbecause the gift, the gift of
peace, and it's a gift thatcomes with work, but it is still
, to me, a gift, it is somethingthat is.
(28:19):
So.
I get to not only have it, butI get to see people find it
again and again, and again.
And man, I just I couldn't bemore grateful.
(28:41):
So, yeah, I'm definitely alittle excitable sometimes.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
That's awesome.
I'm sure that some of thefamilies that are listening may
want to access more of whatyou've got to say.
I know that the Hanley Centerhas a YouTube channel where you
have some videos up.
Is there any other place wherefamilies can access content
where you're speaking andsharing some of the things or
(29:05):
elaborating on these things morethan you have today?
Speaker 4 (29:07):
I think that's probably the best place.
They collect them there betterthan than any place I know.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
And what I understand is you guys are about ready to
to kick off the Hanley centerpodcast.
Is that right?
That's right.
When does that start.
Do you know?
Speaker 4 (29:22):
I think we're looking in September in September to
start actually putting them upthere, but we had a podcast
years ago.
I love this format.
It's super fun.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
For families that do want to look into the Hanley
Center for their loved ones.
Let's talk just briefly, beforewe wrap up, about the types of
programs that Hanley offers.
There's a men's only program, awomen's only program.
You have an older adultsprogram.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
It was the groundbreaking cut one in the
United States and, to myknowledge, the first program in
the world that's been in placefor many years.
One of the things that we knowis that treatment in general has
been built to meet the needs ofyounger folks and the needs of
older adults who are alsodealing with addiction.
(30:12):
Their needs are different.
Their physical and medicalneeds are different, their
social, their psychologicalneeds are different, and even
where they're at spiritually isdifferent, and so we have a
program that not only puts themtogether but also has specially
trained medical, clinical,spiritual staff that that are
(30:34):
really helped to meet the needsof that population.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
And one of the things that I've come to really
appreciate about the olderadults program is that as people
get into older adulthood, thereare other degenerative brain
diseases that start to becomemore apparent and sometimes it's
harder to distinguish between.
Is this alcoholism, or is thisdementia?
Is this Alzheimer's?
Is there something else?
And you guys do a reallyexcellent job at being able to
(31:00):
not only identify those butreally develop a treatment plan
that treats.
I don't want to say that youguys treat dementia and
Alzheimer's, but you'recertainly able to separate
what's what.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
And that's the key is being able to different.
We'll have a lot of adultchildren bringing their parents
in saying, look, we don't knowif this is the beginnings of
Alzheimer's or this is, you know, substance induced because
dad's been drinking a fifth ofJack and having eight Xanax a
day for 40 years.
And being able to differentiatethat for the family is a
(31:32):
critical step.
Yeah, so I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
And the most recent program offering that you guys
have opened is the primarymental health program, where
somebody can come to treatmentwith you guys that doesn't have
a chemical dependency or alcoholdependency diagnosis and get
treated for primary mentalhealth issues.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
Yeah, we would.
We found ourselves, you know,years ago not being licensed for
that and really again and againand again sending folks to
different places and going.
Man, they're not getting thekind of care and love that they
would if they were here.
And so we opened up thatprimary mental health program.
Has been at a waiting listsince the day it opened.
But but the other excitingthings.
(32:09):
I mean I'm super excited totell people that we are opening
up a perinatal program and so wehave five beds for pregnant
moms.
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
That's awesome.
That is a difficult populationto find placement for is
pregnant females.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
And we're going to keep them here.
We're going to get them throughthe birth.
We're going to keep them afterthe birth.
We're going to help them.
We're hiring.
We've got doulas, and so it'ssomething I'm just wildly
excited about.
They're opening up the Patriotsprogram, which is for first
responders and vets.
It's an exciting time to behere.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
We're going to have to come down there and check you
out.
Come on down.
You know I've sent some verycomplicated cases to you guys
over the years and it is mygo-to for older adults, for the
older adult population Old RickHubbard, who's no longer with
you guys, but he's a great dudeman, he really is.
We've had him on the podcast.
He said Sam, he said if they'vegot a head, if they've just got
(33:13):
a head, if we can roll them inthe door and they're still alive
and they've got a head, we canpretty much take them.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
And that's about true .
We have the advantage of being,we have a medical staff, we
have a lot of internal medicalsupport.
We're also basically on thecampus of a trauma hospital, so
there's a lot of advantages heretowards taking those higher,
more complicated patients.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
So I've been thinking about this and I just wanted to
ask a guy that I just met this,and I just wanted to ask a guy
that I just met if we were tohow, how, how easier or how god,
I can't even talk now how moreeffective would it be?
And wouldn't it be more true,instead of saying, hey, man,
don't you want to come get sober, is this set?
(34:02):
Because that doesn't sound funat all, that doesn't sound
enjoyable like at all to peoplethat need to get sober.
But what if we were to say, man, don't you want to come have a
profound spiritual experience?
Who doesn't want to have aprofound spiritual experience?
Would you want to have?
(34:22):
I mean, I know you've had manyprofound spiritual experiences.
I have as well.
As a result, I found thepurpose in my life of when you,
if you'd asked me before who amI, I'd have told you I was.
You know I did this type of job.
I'm a dad, I'm this, I'm youknow, I'm a country boy, I'm
this, and that I had no idea whoI really was.
But as a result of a profoundspiritual experience, I know my
(34:44):
authentic self.
I know who I am with nothing.
I know my purpose.
Yeah, like, and that's as aresult of a profound spiritual
experience.
Like, isn't that what you guysare doing is providing the
groundwork for a profoundspiritual experience?
It sounds more exciting thanjust saying hey, don't you want
to come get sober.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
And at the end of the day you know, I've been a
therapist for I don't know 25years or so I think the most
important question I ever askanybody is what do you want?
And what most people willeventually answer is well, I
just want to be happy.
People will say that all thetime, and the truth is, you know
(35:29):
, happy comes from this oldEnglish word.
Happy literally means luck.
Happy means I feel good basedon my external circumstances,
and there's nothing wrong withit.
But when that's your ultimatepursuit, you're going to be
(35:51):
chasing your tail.
What I think most people really,really want is peace, and
either way, whatever words weuse, whether it's peace or that
profound spiritual experience orthat spiritual awakening, I
find I'm with you, asking peoplewhat is it that you want?
What are you looking for?
And, and, by the way, somepeople will say I just want to
(36:11):
go drink, leave me alone, andand and then we can, but I mean,
once we get down, why do youwant to drink?
Cause I can't shut my mind off,guys.
What they're still looking foris peace.
Yeah, so what we are at the endof the day is we're peace
salesmen, um, andmen, andspiritual awakening salesmen,
and what I mean.
How can you not be excitedabout that?
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Exactly, exactly, john.
It's been an honor, it's beenwonderful.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I hope we can have you on again.
There's so many other questionsthat I want to ask you that we
just don't have time for.
I'd love to get into just somany different things, and so,
if we can have you back onsometime soon.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
I'd love to invite you back Anytime.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
I think I'm going to come down to Florida and just do
some content with you Just comeon.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
And so here's the deal my barbecue is the best
around and and we do a an alumnibarbecue where and I cook for
cook for 400 people, and we doan alumni barbecue and I cook
for 400 people, and I had sevenpeople from Texas seven Three of
(37:16):
them said it was the bestbrisket they've ever had.
So I'm just saying.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
So, john, I do a series on YouTube called Recipes
and Recovery and we got to geton there, do some talking just
two guys talking but a littlebit about recovery and a whole
lot about food and I would likefor you to show others unless
it's an age-old family secrethow you can make that best
(37:44):
barbecue around Come on, I'mthere.
Does Hanley have a kitchen bigenough for us to get in there
and do our stuff?
I have it at home.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
But when we do the alumni barbecue there's a
company that lends us about a20-foot stick burner.
I get a hammock.
I love the outdoor.
I get a hammock, I sleepoutside and we spend.
I mean I'm talking real deal.
(38:14):
But at home I have the easybake oven, but still it is.
I wouldn't use anything else.
All right, as long as you'reokay with a pellet smoker guy at
home.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
I'm not.
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
I'm not a snob.
If it's the best brisketsomebody's ever tasted, I think
I'll be just fine with it.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
I cooked ribs in the crock pot last week.
You know, like no shame in mygame.
Well, that's kind of shameful,that's kind of you know, just
kind of.
Hey, I had to take a guy totreatment in a helicopter.
I had to be gone for that day,man and I wanted ribs at night.
I put them in the crock pot.
Eight hours later I'd fall offthe bone.
Ribs Beautiful.
Don't hate on me brother.
(38:53):
I'm not going to hate on that.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Well, gentlemen, thank you for being here today.
John, it's been a pleasure.
Hope we can see you again soon.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
We will.
You let me, I'm there.
Thanks guys, you got it Allright.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Thank you and always listen.
Guys.
Matt and I, we're onintervention on call, we are
interventionists, we areproviders, and intervention on
call is your place as a familymember that needs to be educated
.
You just don't know what to door how to handle a certain
situation, or whether you need afull-blown intervention.
(39:26):
Intervention on call.
We do on-demand sessions anhour at a time.
Give you everything we canpossibly give you in that hour.
It's an excellent way to easeyou into this process of
intervention, that fearful wordof oh my God intervention.
So check us out.
Interventiononcallcom.
Thank you all so much.
Interventiononcallcom.
(39:47):
Thank you all so much.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people To learn more, or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode, or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(40:12):
don't enable addiction ever.
On behalf of the Party Wreckers, Matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Let's talk again soon.
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
professional interventionistsMatt Brown and Sam Davis.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism and are
reluctant to get the help thatthey need.
We hope to educate andentertain you while removing the
(00:25):
fear from the conversation.
Stay with us and we'll get youthrough it.
Please welcome the partywreckers, matt Brown and Sam
Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome back everybody.
You're in for a treat todaybecause you're actually getting
take two of our process here.
We started out here and we werelike seven, eight minutes into
recording this episode and Irealized that I hadn't hit
record yet.
So we've had a little bit ofpractice on this first run.
Before we get into our secondtake of the interview with Dr
John Diben Sam, let's talk alittle bit about our training
(01:03):
coming up in Birmingham, alabama, on October 12th and 13th.
What can people expect to getout of this training if they
decide to join us?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Whether they're a new interventionist or they're an
established interventionist.
You're going to have a lot ofhelpful information given to you
.
It is exciting, it is notboring at all.
It's not like reading tax laws.
We are going to go over thedifferent models of intervention
, how to blend those models andlet the family and the way the
(01:34):
family comes together throughthe entire intervention process,
let the which model do you use?
Unfold.
I see so many interventionists.
They say, well, I only use thismodel, I only use that model,
and I think that you're sellingyourself a little bit short by
doing so.
So our model is hey, whichmodel does this family need?
So we're going to educate youon all models, how to blend them
(01:57):
, how to let them evolve.
We're going to really get intoand you won't get this at any
other training is how to brandyourself effectively on social
media as a private practiceinterventionist.
Social media is where it's at.
It's the holy grail ofmarketing yourself.
(02:17):
Is video content, social mediacontent.
It's absolutely free to put upvideos to get eyeballs on
yourself.
Establish a personal brand.
We're going to get into that.
We're going to get into how dowe expand our income funnel as
interventionists.
Help you broaden that, and it'sjust going to be a good time.
It's going to be a good time.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, and as we've done three trainings up until
now, I think that's the onepiece that we have been missing
in our first three trainings isreally talking more about that,
because so many people will comethrough the training and, as we
do, some of the mentorship andsupervision afterwards.
Most of the questions that I'vebeen hearing is okay, now what?
(02:58):
How do I actually start working?
It doesn't matter how good weare as interventionists.
If nobody knows what we'redoing and how we do it or who we
can help, then we're not goingto be effective, and so I think
that's a really key piece of thetraining that they're going to
get from us.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Most definitely.
It's critical.
I think I mean I got trainedand I know you did as well.
I came home, hung up my shingle, said hey, I'm an
interventionist now and had mylittle laptop and it was silence
.
Now and have my little laptopand it was silence, phones
weren't ringing.
I'm like now, what do I do?
So I took some licks throughthe years.
We both have taken licksthrough the years on how to
brand ourself, how to marketourself, how to get our message
(03:35):
out there.
So we want to pass along thisinformation to you to save you
the licks that we had to take.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
There's been times where I've called my own 800
number on my website just tomake sure it was still working,
like what's going on?
Why is the phone not ringing?
So yeah, I hope this will helpeverybody who wants to come in
and join us.
So if you want to join us, it's$1,000.
It's October 12th and 13th.
We would love to see you thereand hope that you'll join us.
(04:05):
As we get into our interviewtoday we have Dr John Diben and
I want to read his bio from theHanley Center because, as far as
people who have had lettersbehind their names, john may be
the most qualified person thatwe've had yet on the podcast
when it comes to education and Idon't want to miss any of his
(04:26):
accomplishments here.
So let's go here.
It says John is the chiefresearch of innovation at the
Hanley Recovery Center inFlorida.
John provides support totreatment leadership through
research and consultation.
John continually builds uponhis academic expertise through
research and nationwide speakingengagements on health science,
spirituality, clinical ethicsand related topics.
(04:49):
John's academic trainingincludes a Bachelor of Science
in Psychology, a Master of Artsin Conflict Management, a Master
of Science in Management, aDoctor of Health Science and
postgraduate studies inpsychology, philosophy and
religion.
John is a Master CertifiedAddictions Professional and a a
certified mental healthprofessional in the state of
Florida.
He is an internationallycertified alcohol and drug
(05:12):
counselor and a substance abuseprofessional, meeting all
federal DOT qualifications.
John is a musician, writer anda private pilot.
He enjoys spending time withhis family.
John, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Thank you both for having me.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I appreciate it, John welcome to the podcast, thank
you both for having me.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
I appreciate it.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Glad to have you.
The Hanley Center has beenaround for a while.
It's gone through some changes,even recently.
Talk to us a little bit aboutwhere it started and how it
evolved to what it is today.
Sure.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
You know, it really all started with Jack and Mary
Jane Hanley and it's a kind of abeautiful love story.
They fell in love in collegeand Jack.
Eventually after school theygot married and he became the
CEO of Monsanto and said thatthey put Jack in a very you know
, this high executive positionand Mary Jane would do a lot of
entertaining and she's kind ofshy, and so what she realized,
(06:06):
you know, at some point is ifshe knocked a few drinks back,
that she would make a betterhostess, is how she puts it.
What she didn't know is she hadthe predisposition for the
disease of alcoholism and shedeveloped full blown alcoholism.
It almost destroyed theirfamily.
But again, lots of long stories.
But she got treatment and shereally found recovery.
(06:27):
She had that spiritualexperience, that awakening, and
really found something thatchanged her life, changed her
family's life.
They started a foundation, theHanley Family Foundation, that
was really dedicated to helpingfurther the cause, helping
people better understand whataddiction is, how to prevent it
(06:52):
and also how to treat it.
So she became good friends withour former first lady, betty
Ford, who had been through thisherself and and eventually she's
had a house down here, and theydecided, you know we really
want to have a place, uh, inFlorida that treats people with
(07:15):
dignity, that helps people gethealing from addiction and uh,
but helps them in a way thatsays you are are worth, that,
that you have worth and value.
So at the time this is goingback to the late 70s, early 80s
Hazelden was kind of the.
They had the model.
(07:37):
So Hanley got with Hazelden andthey created this place down
here in West Palm Beach, floridacalled Hanley Hazelden at St
Mary's because it's on thecampus of a hospital, and over
the years the key that has beenkind of through this whole no
matter, through all of itschanges.
Mrs Hanley believed thateverything from the flowers to
(08:02):
the environment, to the carpet,to the way people talk to you,
everything here should speak tothe dignity of everyone on this
campus.
And so to this day you know, Iguess I've been here 20 years
there have been wild changesover the years, but one thing
that we've been able to I'vebeen able to see is consistent
(08:24):
is that this is a place thattreats people not just with
scientific evidence andexcellence and treatment
excellence, but that reallyspeaks to the dignity of every
person.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
John, let me ask you you said that the predisposition
early on.
What is that to you?
Can you explain that?
Families hear this all the time, Like, like.
What does that mean?
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (08:52):
So I'm.
I'm the son of two militaryofficers.
My mom was.
My mom is the toughest personto ever walk on the planet, not
the toughest woman, she's thetoughest person to ever walk on
the planet.
My father was a fighter pilotand so I, you know, in my family
, type two diabetes on bothsides of my family, uh, runs
just, it's both.
You know, my parents,grandparents, both sits of
(09:13):
grandparents, and aunts anduncles.
So we know something aboutdiabetes.
We know that diabetes there isa higher likelihood of
developing diabetes if you haveit in your family history.
What does that mean?
It means that thepredisposition, the likelihood
that you will develop a specificcondition is in your genes, is
(09:35):
passed down genetically.
Now, it doesn't mean thatyou're absolutely going to
develop it.
So my mom in her 60s she doesn'ttake care of herself super well
.
In her civilian career she's aneducator and a social worker.
They're real good at takingcare of others but not
themselves and she develops type2 diabetes.
She goes to the doctor.
The doctor said the VA says yougot diabetes.
(09:57):
But you know what Good news Ifyou take care, if you exercise,
change your diet et cetera, youmight be able to manage this
without having to go onmedication and such my mom goes
back six months later she hasn'ttaken care of herself.
It's getting worse, and here'swhat the doctor said to her.
She said, mrs Diven, this inyour genes is a higher
(10:23):
likelihood that you will developdiabetes.
And you know what.
That's not your fault, that'snot your responsibility.
And you know what.
(11:00):
That's not your fault.
That's not your responsibility.
You couldn't control that.
Now, however, you have thisdisease and you do have some
responsibility, and so what thedoctor said is you're not
responsible.
Similarity with a lot of otherdiseases.
We know that, and it startswith twin drank and used the
same amount, and he just stoppedand he's fine.
So I should be able to juststop too, but I can't.
(11:24):
And that's not about a personbeing morally weak, it's not
about a person being.
It's about a person having adisease, and and it's it gets.
You know, when I talk about this, I talk about the dual messages
.
We know that people aregenetically more likely to
(11:48):
develop addiction, that there'sa genetic component to it.
We obviously know that there's.
Also, if you never put a drugor a drink in your body, that
switch would not be turned on.
But the reality is we also livein an environment where putting
(12:08):
things into our bodies is thevast majority of what we do here
in this country.
So when I talk about thepredisposition, addiction by
definition has a geneticcomponent, a psychosocial
component and a psychological,emotional and behavioral
(12:29):
component, so it's not one supersimple thing.
I loved hearing you talk aboutyour training.
That's coming up.
And then what I loved hearingyou say is we actually talk to
families about what kind ofintervention is going to work
best for them, because it's notone simple thing and addiction
(12:49):
as a health condition is verymuch like that one simple thing,
and addiction as a healthcondition is very much like that
.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
So, as you talk about the developing strategies, you
know very few if you guys may beeven the only one that I know
of where you actually have aposition as the director of
innovation and research.
There aren't very many programsthat look at this from a
research standpoint or aninnovation standpoint.
This is an area, an industry,that I don't want to say it
hasn't evolved, but if you goback 30, 40 years into treatment
(13:22):
, much of what you'll see thereis what we're doing today and it
does work.
Don't get me wrong.
When you look at it from aspiritual perspective, from a
12-step perspective, that'stried and true.
But in your role as innovationand research director, what does
that entail and what does thatbring into the treatment process
that you guys do that maybeother people might be missing?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Well, man, I love that question and I think it's a
really important because thistalks to our.
For me, it talks to our moralsand our ethics and what we owe
people.
So I actually give a lecture topatients called Mixed Messages,
Because I'm very aware of thefact that you know we talk about
this as a disease of the brainand we also talk about this as a
(14:07):
spiritual condition, and so youknow what is it?
And the answer is yes, um, it's.
It's funny.
I was talking to a guy namedchris raymer years ago.
He's a good friend of mine andand uh, chris chris was talking
about uh, he said, you know, wetried uh to.
We decided we were just gonnahave a 12-step like only a
(14:30):
12-step immersion program andnothing else and no therapists
and no doctors and no anything,which sounds kind of cool.
And he said it was really cooltill we got our first patient
with an active manic episode,with bipolar disorder, right.
And then we realized, okay, sothere might be more things going
on with some people.
There might be more thingsgoing on with some people.
(14:50):
So, when it comes to, at the endof the day, for many people,
many people get clean, get soberand they never go to treatment.
Many people go to AA, they goto NA and God bless them.
For many, many, many treatmentis a critical life-saving and
(15:17):
not just life like physical life.
But you know what I'm talkingabout.
I mean, like I get not only doI get my physical life back, I
get my relationships back, I getmy self-worth back, I mean.
And so for those people, weunderstand that mental illness
of and addiction, that these areconditions that have changed
(15:39):
the brain, they are impacting anorgan.
So our my responsibility as ahealthcare provider and that's
make no mistake.
If I'm working in a treatmentcenter and I am accepting
insurance or I taking money foryour health care, I am a health
care provider and I actuallywould say, Matt, that the
(15:59):
addiction treatment and I'mputting pointing at me too, and
we have done a poor job.
We have not held ourselves tothe same standards as other
health care.
So you know, any other healthcare, we expect that they are
constantly researching andthey're never saying you know,
(16:20):
good enough is good enough.
They're researching, they're,you know, learning about the
condition, they're improvingtreatments, they're doing those
things.
And there are some places thatare doing some research and such
, but for the most part, you'reright, it's not happening.
So I'm just, I'm really blessed.
I happen to be at a place whereespecially you know, just even
(16:45):
just the past year we have thecenter, which is the treatment
arm, has reconnected with thefoundation, and that's when
research has really been kind oframped up.
I say is really true, because Ibelieve that people get their
(17:11):
lives back and they get a lifeback that's more than they ever
imagined.
That kids get their parentsback, that parents get their
kids back.
These are huge, huge things,and so that's a big
responsibility on us to say howdo we do it the best way?
So one of the things that we'vedone and our philosophy is also
(17:34):
not only how do we do it thebest way, but then how do we
give that information away.
So I'm very, like I said,blessed where our CEO is also a
person who believes in this, andour foundation believes in this
, and Mrs Hanley believes inthis, and so we actively have a
(17:56):
department that is researching,and what we're researching is
we're looking at our outcomes,we're looking at what works and
what doesn't, and we're gettingthe patient's perspective,
family members' perspective, andwe're getting the patient's
perspective, family members'perspective.
We're also doing specificresearch projects to say how can
(18:17):
we improve the relationship,for example, between patient and
therapist, and how much doesthat matter, Are we?
One of the things that we'reworking on right now is an
assessment that will help usunderstand.
One of the things that SAMHSAthe Substance Abuse Mental
Health Services Administration,has said is that trauma-informed
(18:39):
care is going to improveoutcomes, that most patients who
are coming into treatment haveexperienced some sort of trauma
and addressing that in a healthyway is going to help them get
better.
But do you know that there isnot an assessment that asks
patients whether or not that'sbeing effective for them?
So we're creating it.
(19:01):
I could go on and on and on, butthe bottom line is that if what
we are doing is health care,then we have an obligation,
ethically and morally, to holdourselves to the same standard
as anyone treating any otherdisease, whether it's cancer or
diabetes.
We need to be at, you know,holding ourselves to the same
(19:22):
standard.
I'll tell you that.
You know they say really messedup.
People either go into ministryor psychology, and I did both.
So my dual diagnosis is I'mboth clergy and clinician.
So when I get up on a soapboxor start sound like I'm
preaching, just you know,forgive me.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
While you're focusing on outcomes and you're doing
assessments and you're lookingat those relationships between
clinicians and patients, mybelief is that addiction is a
medical disease with a spiritualsolution.
And how do the two coexist inthe same space?
When you're looking at thisfrom a fact space and an
(20:05):
evidence-based perspective, somany of us come into treatment
and the idea of the 12 steps.
For me, I hated the idea of the12 steps.
I had no experience with them,but I knew two things.
I knew they believed they had adisease and I knew they had to
believe in God and I wantednothing to do with either one of
those concepts.
And how?
(20:26):
How do?
Let me, let me, figure out howto ask this question.
Why is spirituality soimportant in the recovery
process?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
it's a great question .
So, first of all, Ifundamentally believe that that
it's not just for the recoveryprocess, that it is life and
death for the recovery process,but but that that, even though
that every single one of us uh,whether are we're afflicted with
chemical dependency oraddiction or other mental health
(20:56):
conditions or anything else, ornot, every one of us has a need
for a healthy spirituality.
And, first of all, how we dealwith that is we put some
definitions around it.
You know, people walk in thedoor with all sorts of
(21:17):
preconceived notions and ideas,and so one of the things is
providing a space for people tosay what their ideas are, to say
those things Like I don't wantanything to do with that God
stuff.
Or sometimes even harder iswhen people say, oh, it's about
God, oh, great, all I need to dois pray and go to church a
little more, and now I'm goingto be great, so I don't need
(21:39):
your intervention, right?
So, either way, and so what wedo is we step back and we define
spirituality and, in essence,the way we define spirituality
is spirituality is most simplydefined as my way of life.
And so, stepping back a littlemore, what does that mean?
(22:03):
First of all, the reason that'sso important is because if
spirituality is simply about myway of life, then I'm no longer
talking about if I'm going toheaven or hell or Sheol or
Valhalla, or whether God ishappy with me or mad at me.
Is my spirituality one that ishealthy or one that's unhealthy,
(22:25):
that we we expand thedefinition a little bit and we
say spirituality is my way oflife, reflected in my thinking,
my speaking, my actions andhere's the kicker in the quality
of my relationships with otherpeople, with myself and with all
(22:48):
of life, including that whichis transcendent for some, some
people that's going to, for somepeople that's going to mean God
, for some people that's goingto mean nature or something, and
they'll move in that direction.
But that definition is a gamechanger and we spend a lot of
time.
So I've just given you you knowit's an hour-long time, you
know group with patients wherewe go through that definition,
(23:11):
group with patients where we gothrough that definition.
But spirituality, we define itas my way of life, reflected in
my thinking, speaking, actionsand in the quality of my
relationships with others, withself and with all of life.
And here's what we say Healthyspirituality is one that is
connected to life, one thatcelebrates life.
Unhealthy spirituality is onethat is disconnected from life,
(23:35):
one that denigrates life.
And so what we mean when we sayso, how can addiction, how can
you have a physical disease witha spiritual solution?
Here's why Because what thisphysical disease does is it
disconnects you from life, whichresults in an unhealthy
(23:58):
spiritual condition.
And so it's not simply aboutgetting your brain cleared of a
drug, it's also about movingtowards reconnecting with life,
so that I can have thatspiritual awakening.
And when we talk about the 12steps, I encourage people to
(24:18):
just sit and look at 12 stepsfor a minute, and what I suggest
is every one of them is arecipe for how to move from
disconnected to connected.
So that very first, you know,we admitted.
What does we admitted mean?
Well, it means that I've beenin denial.
Well, what's denial?
Is it being stupid?
(24:38):
You know we?
You know people will say I wasjust.
I can't believe how dumb I was.
I don't know man, I do nottreat a lot of stupid people.
I don't treat a lot of evilpeople I don't treat.
I treat people who are smart.
So what is it?
What it means is, if I've been,I need to admit because I've
been disconnected.
Everybody around me is tellingme you got to get help, you're
(25:02):
hurting, and I can't hear it,not because I'm dumb, because
I'm disconnected.
And then, if you go through andgo into the fourth step, I'm
learning about reconnecting tomyself and in the fifth step I'm
connecting to others.
Every one of it is a it's likea recipe for how to go from a
(25:28):
life that has become can reallyget into that.
That.
That transcends.
It transcends drug of choice.
It transcends disease condition.
It transcends what yourreligion or what it, because
everyone can relate to beingdisconnected and that need to
(25:49):
move towards connected and thatneed to move towards connected.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
I look at it as we've got an internal constitution
and when everything's lining up,boy, it's glowing.
It's glowing like it's crankedup.
You can hear the hum of it.
Nothing on the street bothersme.
People don't bother you.
I'm not taking thingspersonally.
My house is in order.
No, I'm awake, as the FourAgreements says.
(26:18):
I'm walking around asleep,dreaming.
I'm awake, but I'm awake likeI'm awakened, and I have kids
too.
So I remember SpongeBobSquarePants when Patrick had the
orb of confusion.
It was a little ball.
When you hit the switch,everything got blurry and he
just kind of zoned out and wentto sleep.
He started drooling.
That's me disconnected, the orbof confusion, and anyone that
(26:43):
gets close to me, that reallyloves me and and is close to me,
gets pulled into that orb ofconfusion, and then they
themselves become confused rightyou know I like the way you
said it.
I like your passion around this,john, I really do.
You know you're a guy that'sthat's lavens people up, that
(27:04):
like gets people on the edge oftheir seat going.
Tell me more please, john.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Well, I appreciate that I will.
You know, I have.
I've had enough misery to knowthat I don't want anymore and
and I like I really really wantpeace in my life, and and and I
actually think that most of usthat that's the truth, that what
we really really want is peacein my life, and and and I
actually think that most of usthat that's the truth, that what
we really really want is peacein our lives, and and the only
(27:32):
way that I know how to do it isby by being spiritually healthy.
And and I have it's funny you'dsay, you know, I, I know what I
look like when I'm notspiritually healthy and.
I have to have people around methat that know what I do too,
that know what I look like totell people.
You know, if you start hearingme say that everybody's an idiot
, that's not about everybodybeing an idiot, that's about I'm
(27:57):
not.
I'm not doing my work, I'm notbeing healthy and I'm not in a
spiritually fit place.
And I do get excited about itbecause the gift, the gift of
peace, and it's a gift thatcomes with work, but it is still
, to me, a gift, it is somethingthat is.
(28:19):
So.
I get to not only have it, butI get to see people find it
again and again, and again.
And man, I just I couldn't bemore grateful.
(28:41):
So, yeah, I'm definitely alittle excitable sometimes.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
That's awesome.
I'm sure that some of thefamilies that are listening may
want to access more of whatyou've got to say.
I know that the Hanley Centerhas a YouTube channel where you
have some videos up.
Is there any other place wherefamilies can access content
where you're speaking andsharing some of the things or
(29:05):
elaborating on these things morethan you have today?
Speaker 4 (29:07):
I think that's probably the best place.
They collect them there betterthan than any place I know.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
And what I understand is you guys are about ready to
to kick off the Hanley centerpodcast.
Is that right?
That's right.
When does that start.
Do you know?
Speaker 4 (29:22):
I think we're looking in September in September to
start actually putting them upthere, but we had a podcast
years ago.
I love this format.
It's super fun.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
For families that do want to look into the Hanley
Center for their loved ones.
Let's talk just briefly, beforewe wrap up, about the types of
programs that Hanley offers.
There's a men's only program, awomen's only program.
You have an older adultsprogram.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
It was the groundbreaking cut one in the
United States and, to myknowledge, the first program in
the world that's been in placefor many years.
One of the things that we knowis that treatment in general has
been built to meet the needs ofyounger folks and the needs of
older adults who are alsodealing with addiction.
(30:12):
Their needs are different.
Their physical and medicalneeds are different, their
social, their psychologicalneeds are different, and even
where they're at spiritually isdifferent, and so we have a
program that not only puts themtogether but also has specially
trained medical, clinical,spiritual staff that that are
(30:34):
really helped to meet the needsof that population.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
And one of the things that I've come to really
appreciate about the olderadults program is that as people
get into older adulthood, thereare other degenerative brain
diseases that start to becomemore apparent and sometimes it's
harder to distinguish between.
Is this alcoholism, or is thisdementia?
Is this Alzheimer's?
Is there something else?
And you guys do a reallyexcellent job at being able to
(31:00):
not only identify those butreally develop a treatment plan
that treats.
I don't want to say that youguys treat dementia and
Alzheimer's, but you'recertainly able to separate
what's what.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
And that's the key is being able to different.
We'll have a lot of adultchildren bringing their parents
in saying, look, we don't knowif this is the beginnings of
Alzheimer's or this is, you know, substance induced because
dad's been drinking a fifth ofJack and having eight Xanax a
day for 40 years.
And being able to differentiatethat for the family is a
(31:32):
critical step.
Yeah, so I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
And the most recent program offering that you guys
have opened is the primarymental health program, where
somebody can come to treatmentwith you guys that doesn't have
a chemical dependency or alcoholdependency diagnosis and get
treated for primary mentalhealth issues.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
Yeah, we would.
We found ourselves, you know,years ago not being licensed for
that and really again and againand again sending folks to
different places and going.
Man, they're not getting thekind of care and love that they
would if they were here.
And so we opened up thatprimary mental health program.
Has been at a waiting listsince the day it opened.
But but the other excitingthings.
(32:09):
I mean I'm super excited totell people that we are opening
up a perinatal program and so wehave five beds for pregnant
moms.
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
That's awesome.
That is a difficult populationto find placement for is
pregnant females.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
And we're going to keep them here.
We're going to get them throughthe birth.
We're going to keep them afterthe birth.
We're going to help them.
We're hiring.
We've got doulas, and so it'ssomething I'm just wildly
excited about.
They're opening up the Patriotsprogram, which is for first
responders and vets.
It's an exciting time to behere.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
We're going to have to come down there and check you
out.
Come on down.
You know I've sent some verycomplicated cases to you guys
over the years and it is mygo-to for older adults, for the
older adult population Old RickHubbard, who's no longer with
you guys, but he's a great dudeman, he really is.
We've had him on the podcast.
He said Sam, he said if they'vegot a head, if they've just got
(33:13):
a head, if we can roll them inthe door and they're still alive
and they've got a head, we canpretty much take them.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
And that's about true .
We have the advantage of being,we have a medical staff, we
have a lot of internal medicalsupport.
We're also basically on thecampus of a trauma hospital, so
there's a lot of advantages heretowards taking those higher,
more complicated patients.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
So I've been thinking about this and I just wanted to
ask a guy that I just met this,and I just wanted to ask a guy
that I just met if we were tohow, how, how easier or how god,
I can't even talk now how moreeffective would it be?
And wouldn't it be more true,instead of saying, hey, man,
don't you want to come get sober, is this set?
(34:02):
Because that doesn't sound funat all, that doesn't sound
enjoyable like at all to peoplethat need to get sober.
But what if we were to say, man, don't you want to come have a
profound spiritual experience?
Who doesn't want to have aprofound spiritual experience?
Would you want to have?
(34:22):
I mean, I know you've had manyprofound spiritual experiences.
I have as well.
As a result, I found thepurpose in my life of when you,
if you'd asked me before who amI, I'd have told you I was.
You know I did this type of job.
I'm a dad, I'm this, I'm youknow, I'm a country boy, I'm
this, and that I had no idea whoI really was.
But as a result of a profoundspiritual experience, I know my
(34:44):
authentic self.
I know who I am with nothing.
I know my purpose.
Yeah, like, and that's as aresult of a profound spiritual
experience.
Like, isn't that what you guysare doing is providing the
groundwork for a profoundspiritual experience?
It sounds more exciting thanjust saying hey, don't you want
to come get sober.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
And at the end of the day you know, I've been a
therapist for I don't know 25years or so I think the most
important question I ever askanybody is what do you want?
And what most people willeventually answer is well, I
just want to be happy.
People will say that all thetime, and the truth is, you know
(35:29):
, happy comes from this oldEnglish word.
Happy literally means luck.
Happy means I feel good basedon my external circumstances,
and there's nothing wrong withit.
But when that's your ultimatepursuit, you're going to be
(35:51):
chasing your tail.
What I think most people really,really want is peace, and
either way, whatever words weuse, whether it's peace or that
profound spiritual experience orthat spiritual awakening, I
find I'm with you, asking peoplewhat is it that you want?
What are you looking for?
And, and, by the way, somepeople will say I just want to
(36:11):
go drink, leave me alone, andand and then we can, but I mean,
once we get down, why do youwant to drink?
Cause I can't shut my mind off,guys.
What they're still looking foris peace.
Yeah, so what we are at the endof the day is we're peace
salesmen, um, andmen, andspiritual awakening salesmen,
and what I mean.
How can you not be excitedabout that?
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Exactly, exactly, john.
It's been an honor, it's beenwonderful.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I hope we can have you on again.
There's so many other questionsthat I want to ask you that we
just don't have time for.
I'd love to get into just somany different things, and so,
if we can have you back onsometime soon.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
I'd love to invite you back Anytime.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
I think I'm going to come down to Florida and just do
some content with you Just comeon.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
And so here's the deal my barbecue is the best
around and and we do a an alumnibarbecue where and I cook for
cook for 400 people, and we doan alumni barbecue and I cook
for 400 people, and I had sevenpeople from Texas seven Three of
(37:16):
them said it was the bestbrisket they've ever had.
So I'm just saying.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
So, john, I do a series on YouTube called Recipes
and Recovery and we got to geton there, do some talking just
two guys talking but a littlebit about recovery and a whole
lot about food and I would likefor you to show others unless
it's an age-old family secrethow you can make that best
(37:44):
barbecue around Come on, I'mthere.
Does Hanley have a kitchen bigenough for us to get in there
and do our stuff?
I have it at home.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
But when we do the alumni barbecue there's a
company that lends us about a20-foot stick burner.
I get a hammock.
I love the outdoor.
I get a hammock, I sleepoutside and we spend.
I mean I'm talking real deal.
(38:14):
But at home I have the easybake oven, but still it is.
I wouldn't use anything else.
All right, as long as you'reokay with a pellet smoker guy at
home.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
I'm not.
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
I'm not a snob.
If it's the best brisketsomebody's ever tasted, I think
I'll be just fine with it.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
I cooked ribs in the crock pot last week.
You know, like no shame in mygame.
Well, that's kind of shameful,that's kind of you know, just
kind of.
Hey, I had to take a guy totreatment in a helicopter.
I had to be gone for that day,man and I wanted ribs at night.
I put them in the crock pot.
Eight hours later I'd fall offthe bone.
Ribs Beautiful.
Don't hate on me brother.
(38:53):
I'm not going to hate on that.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Well, gentlemen, thank you for being here today.
John, it's been a pleasure.
Hope we can see you again soon.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
We will.
You let me, I'm there.
Thanks guys, you got it Allright.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Thank you and always listen.
Guys.
Matt and I, we're onintervention on call, we are
interventionists, we areproviders, and intervention on
call is your place as a familymember that needs to be educated
.
You just don't know what to door how to handle a certain
situation, or whether you need afull-blown intervention.
(39:26):
Intervention on call.
We do on-demand sessions anhour at a time.
Give you everything we canpossibly give you in that hour.
It's an excellent way to easeyou into this process of
intervention, that fearful wordof oh my God intervention.
So check us out.
Interventiononcallcom.
Thank you all so much.
Interventiononcallcom.
(39:47):
Thank you all so much.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people To learn more, or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode, or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(40:12):
don't enable addiction ever.
On behalf of the Party Wreckers, Matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Let's talk again soon.
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