April 15, 2024 • 33 mins
We want to hear from you! Send us a question or comment.
Ever grappled with the heartache of watching a loved one struggle with addiction? We have, and this is why we're bringing our personal and professional take on intervention training live to your ears. Together, Matt Brown and Sam Davis, we're peeling back the layers on intervention techniques and real stories from the front lines of addiction recovery. We've had families reach out to us in desperation, and through our Intervention On Call platform, we've witnessed the powerful transformations that occur when guidance meets readiness for change. Our upcoming episode doesn't just discuss intervention training in Portland, Oregon; it's a deep dive into the emotional and practical tools that help families navigate these turbulent waters.
We're also tackling the complex dynamics that addiction weaves into the fabric of a family and the profound impact of setting boundaries. It's a common misconception to believe that the addicted individual is the only one who needs to change. However, we've seen time and again that the ripple effect of setting boundaries can redefine relationships and foster a sense of control amidst chaos. Tune in for candid conversations and insights, from the parallels drawn between a military veteran's experiences with surrender to the unexpected shifts in family roles when recovery begins. Our stories are a testament to the fact that the journey to recovery is not a solo mission but a collective effort, where everyone's growth is paramount.
Join us Every Sunday at 8:00 PM PST and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday Night at 8:00 PM EST/5:00PST for a FREE family support group. Register at the following link to get the zoom information sent to you: Family Support Meeting
About our sponsor(s):
Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist. While a professional intervention can be a powerful experience for change, not every family needs a professionally led intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professional intervention, we can help. Hour sessions are $150.
Therapy is a very important way to take care of your mental health. This can happen from the comfort of your own home or office. If you need therapy and want to get a discount on your first month of services please try Better Help.
If you want to know more about the host's private practice please visit:
Matt Brown: Freedom Interventions
Follow the host on TikTok
Matt: @mattbrowninterventionist
If you have a question that we can answer on the show, please email us at matt@partywreckers.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let me hit that again .
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
professional interventionistsMatt Brown and Sam Davis.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism and are
reluctant to get the help thatthey need.
We hope to educate andentertain you while removing the
(00:27):
fear from the conversation.
Stay with us and we'll get youthrough it.
Please welcome the PartyWreckers, matt Brown and Sam
Davis.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Welcome to another episode of the Party Wreckers.
My name is Matt Brown and I'mhere, as always, with my host,
sam Davis.
Sam, how you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
We're doing all right in spite of ourselves today.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Well, we're going to keep it short and sweet today.
We tried something new todayand we'll see how it goes, but
we put out on social media that,for those that want to listen
live, we have an audiencefunction here on the platform
that we use to record ourpodcast, and so we put it out on
social media just a couple ofhours ago.
I don't know if we're going toget anybody to tune in, but it's
(01:11):
a way for us to have anaudience.
It's a way for us to get alittle bit of interaction in
those moments that we want tofield some questions or help
people live on the podcast.
So, if you're interested infuture episodes, if you didn't
see that on social media today,stay close to us on social media
Facebook, instagram, tiktok andyou'll see announcements for
(01:32):
future episodes where you canlisten in live, watch live.
Before we launch into this, letme just mention the training
that we have coming up here.
Sam, you and I are going to bein Portland, oregon, april 27th
and 28th at Cielo TreatmentCenter and we're going to be
doing our first training of 2024.
We got a few registered so far.
(01:54):
Looking for we got a few spotsthat can still be filled up and
hope we get a few more peoplecoming to Portland to train with
us.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah, it's always a good time training people.
You know I enjoy doing it withyou.
We seem to do well together.
It's a lot of good information.
We haven't had not one negativereview.
Great feedback.
People that are looking to getinto the real live fire trenches
(02:22):
or working with families andbattling this illness it's a
good place.
Or, if you're already workingbehavioral health, I'm going to
sharpen your skill set and it'sjust a cool place to be and hang
out with us a couple of days.
Get some information.
It's always a good time.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, and I think it's worth mentioning.
You said something about it,but you don't have to want to be
an interventionist, you don'thave to want to get certified.
We certainly will see everybodywho takes the training through
their certification process ifthat's what they want.
But a lot, like you said, a lotof people already working in
treatment who work with families.
It's just an opportunity tosharpen those skill sets and
(02:56):
work better with families incrisis.
Do you want to mentionintervention on call?
Before we jump into this todayfor our topic?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, yeah, you know Intervention On Call.
We have a family support groupevery Thursday night, 8 pm
Eastern Time.
That as well is always a goodtime Good families, good
feedback, good conversation.
It's absolutely free.
You got to go to InterventionOn Call and register for the
link.
That's every Thursday night, 8pm Eastern time.
It's a Zoom link.
(03:24):
You can show your face.
You don't have to show yourface.
You can be as engaged ornon-engaged as you wish to be,
and that's attached, like I said, to Intervention On Call, which
is a platform that has severalintervention providers Matt and
myself are two of those andfamilies that just need strategy
(03:46):
, that need guidance, that needsome direction, that need an
understanding.
It can be one family member, itcan be 20 family members on one
session, it matters not.
It's a nominal fee $150 for anhour session.
I'm not there to sell you anintervention.
Hopefully we can get you movingwithout having to bring an
interventionist out.
That's the goal anyway, but itworks.
(04:07):
It works.
It's simple.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Speaking of that, I just got a text message this
morning from a family that I'vehad a couple of sessions with.
I had a session with them lastweek.
We talked a little bit aboutintervening on their 16-year-old
son.
They had a treatment center setup here in Oregon, talk them
through the intervention processand how to get their message
prepped.
And then yesterday had anothersession with them just to kind
(04:31):
of go over the letters that theywere going to write.
And then the text message camethrough this morning that he
agreed to get help and they'retaking him to treatment as we
speak.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
And uh, isn't that great.
I mean, it works.
Yeah it absolutely works and itcost him what 300 bucks Yep To
bring an interventionist out, tobring one of us out and I'm not
trying to cut my nose off here,but I mean you're talking
several thousand dollars to havean interventionist actually
take a case, travel, come outand do the whole full-blown deal
(05:01):
and look, nothing takes theplace of that full-blown
intervention.
There's some magic that happensin the room and I had a case
similar to yours that exceptthey ended up after that second
call right there.
They wanted me to come out andjust sit through it.
It was local, it was two hoursaway from me.
They just wanted me to come outand sit through it and
facilitate it, not transport himto treatment.
(05:23):
And the magic of interventionon call is that it allows us to
gather information, meet otherfamily members, really see what
the team looks like, and then wecan maneuver from there.
Whether we found a familymember which I call the team
members that can transport orthey need us to transport, it
(05:44):
gives me a lot of room to work.
Yeah, and I was able to go outand sit through that with them.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Well, in yesterday's session, not only did we go over
the letters that they hadwritten, but I was able to talk
specifically to the man who wasgoing to be leading the
intervention, kind of coach himon how to run point and maintain
some control over the flow ofcommunication and conversation
and what to do in certainsituations should the person
want to get up and leave orshould the individual have
(06:13):
certain objections.
We were able to talkspecifically to him as the
leader on how to handle thatwithout the situation kind of
devolving into I don't want tosay chaos, but just some
disorganization if certainquestions got asked or if
certain scenarios came up.
And so it was really just notonly the message, but just
really giving them someconfidence around how to
(06:34):
structure the experience so thatthe outcome could be as good as
it turned out to be in thiscase, which is great.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Now, how'd you determine who the leader was
going to be?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I relied pretty heavily on the mom and the dad.
They were not going to be theleaders.
They felt like they were notgoing to be the right people to
be the spokesperson for thegroup, and so as we talked, they
suggested an individual, and Ifelt good about that, and so I
was able to focus a lot of thatattention on that part of his
duties towards him specifically.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
What was that dynamic like?
I mean, what relation was he tothe family?
Was he just a family?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
friend.
He was an in-law Family member.
He was an in-law who had alittle bit of a past and this
young man knew about his past,so it also kind of gave him some
street cred, I guess is anotherway of saying it.
Like you know, this is a guywho's been where I've been to
some degree, and so he was ableto speak from a place of
experience and authority, aswell as not be not to have his
(07:36):
buttons, his emotional buttons,pressed during the experiences,
as mom and dad might have.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
And that's the main thing, someone who can keep
their cool, someone who is notgoing to get pulled down.
The rabbit hole of debate andI'm always with families is look
when they're going to try nottry it, because try.
What does Yoda say?
Either do or do not.
You don't try.
I don't like that word, try,but times use it.
In spite of that is don't beafraid to abort the mission if
(08:04):
it starts going south, like bailout, like back away, regroup.
We'll address this another way.
Maybe you do have to havesomeone come out, but I usually
don't recommend that some peopledo it on their own unless I
feel confident, like hey, we'vegot a family here that can
follow directions and they'vereally honed in on what exactly
(08:28):
needs to happen.
They've been beat down, they'redone, they've done some of
their own work, they'refollowing directions, they're
asking questions and sometimesand I know you do as well,
because we were just talkingabout this on the phone earlier
today I get these families.
There's a type of family thatwill call and I just I can't
move them, I can't.
(08:48):
I can't get them out of thecrisis, I can't deescalate them,
I can't.
They ask a question and followup with 15 answers, like you
were saying, and they just can'tget out of the way.
It's sad because it'sfrustrating as well, because,
like I pride myself in myability to talk a family through
(09:10):
a situation.
That's what we do, yeah, butthere are just some that are so
far into the crisis and theycall.
Usually it's they call whenwhen their loved one is is
actively creating chaos in themoment or within the last 12
hours and they want you to justdrop and come up there
(09:32):
immediately and do their workfor them and to even get into
what is addiction.
What is causing the addiction?
What is that?
There's emotional health atplay here, and addiction is the
result or the education.
You can't even get into itCause they're like no no, no, no
, no.
We need you to come up here.
This needs a, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, and, and this, this kind of phenomena of
overthinking things, you knowthere's there's been a lot of
families and you know,especially recently there's been
a couple that come to mind,where you there's so many
questions that you can tell thatthis family's thought process
is just spinning.
(10:14):
They can't stop questioningevery little detail.
Because I guess this is just myopinion, but I think that
there's this intense need tocontrol, this intense need to be
able to force the outcome to bewhat they hope it will be, that
they want to plan for everypossible scenario.
(10:35):
And I mean, first of all,that's impossible, you can't do
that.
And to try to control somethingI mean that's kind of what got
this family, and particularlythe individual that's in crisis,
to this situation in the firstplace is that need to control.
You know, we, we, we want totell ourselves that we're in
control of something, whetherit's an addiction or whether
(10:56):
it's codependency to somebodywho's in addiction, that we have
this illusion of control, thatsomehow we're going to force the
outcome to be what we want itto be.
And and you know, this onefamily, that that I worked with
recently I mean they wererecently at a family experience
at a treatment center and thetreatment center actually was
considering discharging theclient because this family kind
(11:17):
of hijacked the process incertain moments where it was
very clear that they didn'ttrust the treatment center.
They didn't trust the choicethat they had made to put their
loved one in this particulartreatment center.
And it got to a point, luckily,they were able to kind of walk
back from that and realize like,okay, you know, we're creating
a problem here, we're part ofthe crisis, and and they were
(11:40):
able to kind of see some thingsthat they hadn't been able to
see up to that point.
Luckily, the the, the teamrunning the family program, was
just amazing and kind of helpedvery gently help them through
that.
But for a moment there theywere considering not having this
family or this individual be apart of their program anymore,
simply because there was no way,because of the just the rampant
(12:00):
overthinking that was going on.
And you know, a lot of timesit's because there's somebody
with a very high level ofintelligence and it's like, well
, I'm smart, so I can think myway through this.
And it's like, well, I'm smart,so I can think my way through
this and it's tough, it's realtough sometimes to get a family
to get out of the story, likeyou were saying, and get into a
(12:22):
mode where they're willing tofollow a plan to come to a
solution.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
That's what beats the addicted individual over the
head too is because we're highlyintelligent people.
Mainly, we've done some dumbthings, but addicted individuals
are highly intelligent peopleand they feel like they can
think their way through this andit keeps stumping them.
They can't figure out.
Why do I keep going?
Why do I make these insanedecisions?
Families that are veryaccomplished, very highly
intelligent, gifted, talented,successful families that have
(12:53):
thought their way through lifeand have done well and have
reaped the rewards of thinkingwell and following up with
actions on those thoughts andtheir thinking around this with
their loved one just keepspunching them in the face every
single time and it just bafflesthe hell out of them.
It just does, and I get it.
I baffles the hell out of them,it just does, and I get it.
You know, I understand it.
(13:14):
I feel for him.
You know I got off the phonewith his family.
They didn't, they didn'tproceed with an intervention.
Then they called the next dayand said you know what?
We're not ready, we're notready, and so you know I gave
him some suggestions on whatthey can do to get ready is just
get some education, come to thetable with some, with some
(13:35):
family support groups in yourarea or virtually just be
willing to listen and followsome directions in the moments
when I look at the times thatI've been overthinking, because
I'm certainly guilty of this,like any other human being.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
You know, it's been out of fear, it's been out of
how do I, how do I solve thisproblem?
And and I want to solve itInstead of reaching out and
asking for help.
You know, like a lot of people,my tendency is to go inward and
say okay, how do I fix thismyself?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
And and that's a habit that's been really hard
for me to break and to reallyadmit to other people Like I
don't know how to do this, Idon't know how to fix this.
I could really use some helpright now herself that she had
(14:29):
done a lot of research, had beeninvolved in family groups, and
she came to the table, came tothe phone call with this is my
son.
This is what he's been doing.
This is how long it's beengoing on.
These are the actions that wehave taken through the years to
do something about it thathaven't been effective In the
(14:52):
past.
I have been the absolute chiefenabler.
I recognize that I've changedsome behaviors.
We have a huge family thatevery single one of them are
willing 100% to be engaged insome change.
Right now he's being enabled byanother family member but they
recognize that and are willing100% to do some things that
(15:14):
would be effective.
But we don't know what thosethings are.
What do we do?
And she was very clear once wegot off the phone of what to do
and was very willing to go do it.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Those families are so nice to work with because
they've told us.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I told her.
I said you know, look yourbattle's half over.
Like you know, I hope you'll berejoicing because I mean, I
know that your loved one isn'tin.
You know getting well yet.
I said but believe it or not,you're already halfway through
the battle because you alreadyhave the team assembled, you
have the willingness in the teamto follow directions and do
some things differently.
(15:53):
And you come to the tableunderstanding that nothing
that's happened up until thispoint has been effective and
you're seeking some guidance todo something different.
I said that is most of thebattle of an intervention is
forming the team and gettingeveryone willing and able to
follow some directions.
And I know I sound like I'm,you know, chastising families,
(16:14):
but I'm not.
It's just the facts that I'mseeing out here and the things
that I do.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
In the last episode we talked about the guy that I
heard at my first speakermeeting, the guy that I thought
that I was not going to haveanything in common with, who
ended up having a profoundimpact on me and the one thing
that I remember from what hesaid when he talked about his
time in combat in Vietnam.
He talked about the process ofsurrender and he said, when I
(16:41):
was on the battlefield, we wouldengage with the enemy and there
was an exchange of gunfire.
We were trying to kill eachother and when the enemy wanted
to surrender, there was a veryspecific process that we
required them to go through inorder for them not to die.
The first thing that we toldthem to do was throw down their
(17:02):
weapons and get down on theirknees, put their hands in the
air and wait for us to tell themwhat to do.
And he said my addictionrequires the same thing of me.
He said, if I don't throw downmy weapons, get down on my knees
, put my hands in the air andwait for somebody to tell me
what to do, I'm probably goingto die.
(17:24):
And I think for families it maynot necessarily be a life or
death situation for them, but Ithink that that moment of
surrender is just as powerfulfor a family, where they can
just say what I'm doing isn'tworking and I need someone to
tell me what to do.
And so when you have a family,that's come to a conversation
(17:45):
like the one you just described,where there's a degree of
surrender, and sometimes asignificant degree of surrender
it's like I don't know what todo.
But I'd love for you to tell me.
You go into a meeting and youhear somebody say I'm done, I
don't know what to do and I needa sponsor and I need to work
the steps and whatever you guystell me to do, I'm going to do.
That's a guy that's got areally good chance of getting a
(18:05):
good start in recovery and aslong as he maintains that
humility, he's probably going tostay sober.
Same thing with the families.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Yeah, the ones that I see come in like that the guys
that slide in the rooms, thegirls that slide in the rooms,
and they do that they generallyget well.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
It's maintaining that humility.
Sometimes that's the hard part,but again, that's really not
what we're talking about here.
It's that when we overthinkthings, there's this, this
delusion that I'm hanging on tothat maybe I'm going to come up
with the solution, maybe I'mgoing to think my way out of
this, instead of reallyrelenting and saying I don't
know what I'm doing.
(18:41):
Can you tell me?
It seems like you got thisfigured out.
Why don't you tell me what todo?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
I think a key ingredient that they miss and I
can completely understand thisis that they don't maintain the
understanding that their lovedone is currently insane, like
literally insane.
(19:07):
Like no jokes, no exaggeration,no misuse of the word.
Their addicted loved one isliterally insane at that moment,
even when they're not under theinfluence.
They are insane because theymake the decision to go get more
in a stone, cold, sober stateof mind Craziest thing they do.
(19:30):
So they don't really understandthat they're trying to reason
with an insane person and youjust can't do that.
You just can't do that.
Yeah, this family that couldn'tget out of their way was like
they couldn't wrap their headaround the idea that the change
had to start with them, aroundthe idea that the change had to
(19:57):
start with them.
They couldn't wrap their headaround because they were dealing
with a highly accomplished sonbefore addiction took its toll
and really escalated orprogressed.
They could not and I get itbecause you're used to seeing
your loved one before the traincomes off the tracks.
Man, a lot of people that Iwork with that are paying highly
(20:18):
successful careers.
They've created businesses,talented musicians, artists,
very capable people in otherareas of their lives and
families can't wrap their headaround the fact that right now
they're insane.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
And I don't remember if it was on a Thursday night
family call or another call orsession that I was doing with
the family, but I remember veryspecifically there was an
individual within a family whereI was telling them this is what
you're going to need to do toreally establish some
consistency and some boundariesin your relationship.
And the response that I got waswhy do I have to change?
(21:01):
They're the one with theproblem.
And the response that I had togive this person is if that's
the way you're going to look atthis, you're given every bit of
control over your futurehappiness and your present
happiness to something that'scompletely out of your control.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
And what they can't understand at that time when
they say, why do I have tochange?
They can't understand, based onwhere they are, that the change
that they will make, or thatthey should make, could make,
would make, need to make, willbenefit them not only in this
(21:39):
area of their life, with theiraddicted loved one, but with
every relationship that theyhave Like.
This change isn't just specificfor addiction and for this
situation.
It's to live your life by tointeract with people, boundaries
, you know, understanding,lowered expectations, resentment
(22:03):
.
It's the change that is madebenefits them in every area of
their life.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, and that's the thing about boundaries is, if I
have healthy boundaries, I don'thave to worry about trying to
control somebody else.
I mean, that's one of the keythings that I had to learn about
myself as I've gone through alot of the work, both in therapy
and in ACA, and some of thework that I've been doing with
(22:29):
my own trauma is that I was avery controlling and still can
be a very controlling person,and that has everything to do
with a lack of boundaries.
When I don't have boundaries, Iusually am engaged in some sort
of behavior that's either tryingto get something from someone
else by manipulating them to dothings the way that I want them
(22:49):
to, or to try to prevent them orcontrol them from doing
something that I don't want,Instead of just setting a
boundary and saying, okay,that's my line, whatever side of
that line you want to be on,you, let me know.
And when I do that, it frees mein so many different ways and I
don't have to think about whatsomebody else is doing or how
(23:10):
they're going to impact my life.
The boundary's there.
You're welcome to be a part ofmy life.
Just respect that boundary, andthere's so much freedom that
can come from that.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Here's a plot twist too.
Is that if someone's loved onegoes and gets well, like
wellness for an addictedindividual looks like boundaries
too from them, and if you'renot doing your own work and your
loved one goes and gets well,it really latches on.
They're going to startestablishing some boundaries
with you, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I mean, they're going to do that anyways, yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Yeah, I've seen that disrupt some family systems,
mine included, you know, likethey expect you to go off and
get well and come back, andthey've.
They've really, sometimesunknowingly, made an idea in
their head about how you'regoing to show up once you get
well and come back into the homelife.
And you come back a little bitdifferent arm with some
(24:05):
boundaries, that throws them fora curveball, you know, or
throws them for a loop, you know.
So, hey, you can either changenow and help, you know, make it
easier for your loved one to towant to get well, or you can
change later.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
We started out talking about overthinking
things and trying to controlthings, talking about
overthinking things and tryingto control things, and here we
are talking about boundaries,which is really, at the end of
the day, as interventionists,this is what we help families do
is really create a structure intheir relationships, in their
home, that disrupts thedestructive properties of
addiction, the destructiveinfluence of addiction in those
relationships.
(24:43):
And I think, just as I kind ofgo back and retrace our steps
through this conversation,that's spot on.
I overthink things because I'mtrying to control things and I
try to control things because Idon't have boundaries.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
It's like a highway with no jersey wall trying to
control an out-of-control car.
It doesn't work.
You're the jersey wall.
Those of you that don't knowwhat a jersey?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
wall is.
I was going to say I have noidea what you're talking about
when you say jersey wall.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
It's the concrete, it's the border, you see, on the
highways and the medians ofinterstates, and all it's to
keep one from veering off andhitting people head on in the
other lane of traffic.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Okay, so for those of us out west.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
We call those guardrails.
Well, no, there's a guardrail,that's the guardrail, but the
jersey wall is a concrete.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Okay, you know I got you.
You got an out-of-control cargoing crazy, spinning out.
It needs a boundary.
All right, the jersey wall is aboundary.
It crashes into the boundaryand bounces off and doesn't go
into the lane and hit someonehead on and destroy someone
else's life.
We operate, we live onboundaries everywhere we go.
(26:00):
I got down here to the riverhouse through boundaries.
The side of the highway is theboundary Speed limit, the
boundary.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
If I want to go move my fence and put it six feet on
the other side of the propertyline into my neighbor's yard,
I'm probably going to get alittle bit of pushback from my
neighbor.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yeah, most definitely , most definitely.
Yeah, the land I lease out oftown it's got a huge lake on it
and my boundary is around that.
400 acres is my boundary.
If you want into that, you needto ask.
And if you do something that'snot, you know, good for the land
(26:39):
or what we'd agreed upon orwhat I'm willing to allow on
that, then you got to go Likesorry, and it doesn't mean I
have to get into a big argumentwith you.
Got to go Sorry and it doesn'tmean I have to get into a big
argument with you.
I'm not going to.
I don't have to try and forcesomeone to follow the rules.
It's just like, hey, here's theboundary To be here, this is
what's asked of you, this iswhat is expected of you, and if
(27:01):
you can't do that, then youwon't be here.
Simple, simple as that, simple.
And if they push back on it,it's more reason why the
boundary need to be in place tostart with.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Absolutely, and that's the other thing is
there's a consequence attachedto that boundary specifically
that you're talking about andany boundary that's going to
matter.
If I don't attach a consequenceto that good or bad, it really
doesn't mean anything.
Attach a consequence to thatgood or bad, it really doesn't
mean anything.
(27:33):
It's kind of going back to Iwas able to move boundaries in
my family because the messagewas if you do this again,
there's going to be consequences.
And the threat of consequenceis not a consequence.
The threat of consequence iswe'll give you a pass this time,
but do it again and there'sgoing to be a consequence.
Well, I don't have to experienceanything now, I don't have to
change anything now, and so Inever did until they stepped out
(27:58):
of the way and then life had togive me some consequences,
because life is going tonaturally provide us with some
consequences, whether it'sthrough law enforcement, whether
it's legal, whether it'smedical, whether it's relational
.
You know most people out in theworld, they're not going to put
up with my nonsense.
So I've got to show upcorrectly for them If I'm going
(28:18):
to be employed, if I'm going tooperate in society like nobody
cares who I am or what I've doneor what I haven't done.
They there are certainexpectations of me that life
just naturally demands.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Yes, indeed, Indeed.
I learned that the hard waythrough my life many times.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, I think we all have to.
I don't think there's a personthat comes out of this without a
few bumps and bruises andscrapes.
But I guess, as a dad, I hopethat I can give my kids an
opportunity to learn from mymistakes.
But I see them sometimes doingthe exact same things that I did
and it's like okay, bud, herewe go, you're in for it.
(28:55):
You know, if that's how you gotto learn, that's how you got to
learn.
I say bud, because it's usuallymy son.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
I was just going to say, and I told my other, not
tonight, no night before last,night before last, but he was
trying to feed me some BS.
I said, sir, listen, you haveto first realize that what
you're doing here is you'retrying to BS the king of BS.
I said I have been where youare, I've done what you're doing
(29:23):
, I have experienced what youwant to experience and you are
feeding me a line and I have fedthe line.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I've fed it before.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Just stop.
It's not working for you, it'snot.
He's going to have to have anexperience, though, sitting
around drugs or alcohol oranything like that, just around
him doing teenage stuff with histruck.
And I was thinking last nightwhat know the wisdom?
What is wisdom Like?
What is the wisdom I think thewisdom is?
(29:53):
The wisdom is not.
The lack doesn't mean that mymind is never going to tell me
stupid things again.
Ideas is that I'm not going toreact, I'm not going to act on
it immediately, I'm not going tolatch on to it and think that's
a great idea and run with it.
It means that I'm going topause.
(30:13):
Wisdom to me is a lot of livedexperience, so there's not as
many crazy ideas and crazythoughts.
But when the thoughts come,it's the ability to pause and
step back and look at my pastexperiences and relate that to
this idea and say, okay, wheredo I go from here?
(30:34):
It's the slowing down a littlebit.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
You know, and I think to bring this full circle, I
mean, that's a great, great wayto kind of bring this back to
that original thought of justkind of overthinking things.
Because that's that's mybiggest barrier when I'm
overthinking something is I justcan't slow down, I can't stop
thinking, I can't stop thisbrain of mine from running at a
(30:58):
hundred miles an hour and, youknow, hoping that at some point
I'm going to, I'm going to runinto the to the solution,
instead of just stopping andslowing down and saying, okay,
you know, maybe it's time for adifferent perspective, or maybe
it's time for a break.
It's hard to do, it's hard todo for sure and and I hope that
you know, families listening tothis might get something out of
(31:19):
that because you know, when youlook at it, wisdom and knowledge
are very, very different.
You know, knowledge issomething that I've learned.
Wisdom is usually somethingthat I've experienced very
different, you know knowledge issomething that I've learned.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Wisdom is usually something that I've experienced.
Yes, yes, matt, it's been awonderful time.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it, sam, and and uh,
we've actually had somebody inthe audience today.
So, whoever you are, thanks forbeing here and thanks for
eavesdropping in on us.
And uh, for those that want tolisten in in the future and
participate in the recordingsessions that we'll have, feel
free to follow us on socialmedia and if you have questions,
drop them in the chat or we canbring you on here live and
(31:54):
we'll try to help you live onthe podcast here.
We had, we did, we did, we'vehad one person with us.
So they've been with us forabout 20, 25 minutes now.
So thank you for being here and, yeah, hopefully you'll come
back next time.
You see the invitation onsocial media.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Yeah, appreciate it.
If I'd have known I would havedone a different camera angle,
not showing like the undersideof my neck I'm now.
I'm a little self-conscious.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
I had somebody peeping in on us for 25 minutes.
That's why I didn't mention it.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I didn't want you to get self-conscious?
All right, buddy, all right.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
See you next time.
Thanks again for listening tothe party records.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(32:57):
don't enable addiction ever.
On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Let's talk again soon.
Let me hit that again .
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
professional interventionistsMatt Brown and Sam Davis.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism and are
reluctant to get the help thatthey need.
We hope to educate andentertain you while removing the
(00:27):
fear from the conversation.
Stay with us and we'll get youthrough it.
Please welcome the PartyWreckers, matt Brown and Sam
Davis.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Welcome to another episode of the Party Wreckers.
My name is Matt Brown and I'mhere, as always, with my host,
sam Davis.
Sam, how you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
We're doing all right in spite of ourselves today.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Well, we're going to keep it short and sweet today.
We tried something new todayand we'll see how it goes, but
we put out on social media that,for those that want to listen
live, we have an audiencefunction here on the platform
that we use to record ourpodcast, and so we put it out on
social media just a couple ofhours ago.
I don't know if we're going toget anybody to tune in, but it's
(01:11):
a way for us to have anaudience.
It's a way for us to get alittle bit of interaction in
those moments that we want tofield some questions or help
people live on the podcast.
So, if you're interested infuture episodes, if you didn't
see that on social media today,stay close to us on social media
Facebook, instagram, tiktok andyou'll see announcements for
(01:32):
future episodes where you canlisten in live, watch live.
Before we launch into this, letme just mention the training
that we have coming up here.
Sam, you and I are going to bein Portland, oregon, april 27th
and 28th at Cielo TreatmentCenter and we're going to be
doing our first training of 2024.
We got a few registered so far.
(01:54):
Looking for we got a few spotsthat can still be filled up and
hope we get a few more peoplecoming to Portland to train with
us.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah, it's always a good time training people.
You know I enjoy doing it withyou.
We seem to do well together.
It's a lot of good information.
We haven't had not one negativereview.
Great feedback.
People that are looking to getinto the real live fire trenches
(02:22):
or working with families andbattling this illness it's a
good place.
Or, if you're already workingbehavioral health, I'm going to
sharpen your skill set and it'sjust a cool place to be and hang
out with us a couple of days.
Get some information.
It's always a good time.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, and I think it's worth mentioning.
You said something about it,but you don't have to want to be
an interventionist, you don'thave to want to get certified.
We certainly will see everybodywho takes the training through
their certification process ifthat's what they want.
But a lot, like you said, a lotof people already working in
treatment who work with families.
It's just an opportunity tosharpen those skill sets and
(02:56):
work better with families incrisis.
Do you want to mentionintervention on call?
Before we jump into this todayfor our topic?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, yeah, you know Intervention On Call.
We have a family support groupevery Thursday night, 8 pm
Eastern Time.
That as well is always a goodtime Good families, good
feedback, good conversation.
It's absolutely free.
You got to go to InterventionOn Call and register for the
link.
That's every Thursday night, 8pm Eastern time.
It's a Zoom link.
(03:24):
You can show your face.
You don't have to show yourface.
You can be as engaged ornon-engaged as you wish to be,
and that's attached, like I said, to Intervention On Call, which
is a platform that has severalintervention providers Matt and
myself are two of those andfamilies that just need strategy
(03:46):
, that need guidance, that needsome direction, that need an
understanding.
It can be one family member, itcan be 20 family members on one
session, it matters not.
It's a nominal fee $150 for anhour session.
I'm not there to sell you anintervention.
Hopefully we can get you movingwithout having to bring an
interventionist out.
That's the goal anyway, but itworks.
(04:07):
It works.
It's simple.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Speaking of that, I just got a text message this
morning from a family that I'vehad a couple of sessions with.
I had a session with them lastweek.
We talked a little bit aboutintervening on their 16-year-old
son.
They had a treatment center setup here in Oregon, talk them
through the intervention processand how to get their message
prepped.
And then yesterday had anothersession with them just to kind
(04:31):
of go over the letters that theywere going to write.
And then the text message camethrough this morning that he
agreed to get help and they'retaking him to treatment as we
speak.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
And uh, isn't that great.
I mean, it works.
Yeah it absolutely works and itcost him what 300 bucks Yep To
bring an interventionist out, tobring one of us out and I'm not
trying to cut my nose off here,but I mean you're talking
several thousand dollars to havean interventionist actually
take a case, travel, come outand do the whole full-blown deal
(05:01):
and look, nothing takes theplace of that full-blown
intervention.
There's some magic that happensin the room and I had a case
similar to yours that exceptthey ended up after that second
call right there.
They wanted me to come out andjust sit through it.
It was local, it was two hoursaway from me.
They just wanted me to come outand sit through it and
facilitate it, not transport himto treatment.
(05:23):
And the magic of interventionon call is that it allows us to
gather information, meet otherfamily members, really see what
the team looks like, and then wecan maneuver from there.
Whether we found a familymember which I call the team
members that can transport orthey need us to transport, it
(05:44):
gives me a lot of room to work.
Yeah, and I was able to go outand sit through that with them.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Well, in yesterday's session, not only did we go over
the letters that they hadwritten, but I was able to talk
specifically to the man who wasgoing to be leading the
intervention, kind of coach himon how to run point and maintain
some control over the flow ofcommunication and conversation
and what to do in certainsituations should the person
want to get up and leave orshould the individual have
(06:13):
certain objections.
We were able to talkspecifically to him as the
leader on how to handle thatwithout the situation kind of
devolving into I don't want tosay chaos, but just some
disorganization if certainquestions got asked or if
certain scenarios came up.
And so it was really just notonly the message, but just
really giving them someconfidence around how to
(06:34):
structure the experience so thatthe outcome could be as good as
it turned out to be in thiscase, which is great.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Now, how'd you determine who the leader was
going to be?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I relied pretty heavily on the mom and the dad.
They were not going to be theleaders.
They felt like they were notgoing to be the right people to
be the spokesperson for thegroup, and so as we talked, they
suggested an individual, and Ifelt good about that, and so I
was able to focus a lot of thatattention on that part of his
duties towards him specifically.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
What was that dynamic like?
I mean, what relation was he tothe family?
Was he just a family?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
friend.
He was an in-law Family member.
He was an in-law who had alittle bit of a past and this
young man knew about his past,so it also kind of gave him some
street cred, I guess is anotherway of saying it.
Like you know, this is a guywho's been where I've been to
some degree, and so he was ableto speak from a place of
experience and authority, aswell as not be not to have his
(07:36):
buttons, his emotional buttons,pressed during the experiences,
as mom and dad might have.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
And that's the main thing, someone who can keep
their cool, someone who is notgoing to get pulled down.
The rabbit hole of debate andI'm always with families is look
when they're going to try nottry it, because try.
What does Yoda say?
Either do or do not.
You don't try.
I don't like that word, try,but times use it.
In spite of that is don't beafraid to abort the mission if
(08:04):
it starts going south, like bailout, like back away, regroup.
We'll address this another way.
Maybe you do have to havesomeone come out, but I usually
don't recommend that some peopledo it on their own unless I
feel confident, like hey, we'vegot a family here that can
follow directions and they'vereally honed in on what exactly
(08:28):
needs to happen.
They've been beat down, they'redone, they've done some of
their own work, they'refollowing directions, they're
asking questions and sometimesand I know you do as well,
because we were just talkingabout this on the phone earlier
today I get these families.
There's a type of family thatwill call and I just I can't
move them, I can't.
(08:48):
I can't get them out of thecrisis, I can't deescalate them,
I can't.
They ask a question and followup with 15 answers, like you
were saying, and they just can'tget out of the way.
It's sad because it'sfrustrating as well, because,
like I pride myself in myability to talk a family through
(09:10):
a situation.
That's what we do, yeah, butthere are just some that are so
far into the crisis and theycall.
Usually it's they call whenwhen their loved one is is
actively creating chaos in themoment or within the last 12
hours and they want you to justdrop and come up there
(09:32):
immediately and do their workfor them and to even get into
what is addiction.
What is causing the addiction?
What is that?
There's emotional health atplay here, and addiction is the
result or the education.
You can't even get into itCause they're like no no, no, no
, no.
We need you to come up here.
This needs a, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, and, and this, this kind of phenomena of
overthinking things, you knowthere's there's been a lot of
families and you know,especially recently there's been
a couple that come to mind,where you there's so many
questions that you can tell thatthis family's thought process
is just spinning.
(10:14):
They can't stop questioningevery little detail.
Because I guess this is just myopinion, but I think that
there's this intense need tocontrol, this intense need to be
able to force the outcome to bewhat they hope it will be, that
they want to plan for everypossible scenario.
(10:35):
And I mean, first of all,that's impossible, you can't do
that.
And to try to control somethingI mean that's kind of what got
this family, and particularlythe individual that's in crisis,
to this situation in the firstplace is that need to control.
You know, we, we, we want totell ourselves that we're in
control of something, whetherit's an addiction or whether
(10:56):
it's codependency to somebodywho's in addiction, that we have
this illusion of control, thatsomehow we're going to force the
outcome to be what we want itto be.
And and you know, this onefamily, that that I worked with
recently I mean they wererecently at a family experience
at a treatment center and thetreatment center actually was
considering discharging theclient because this family kind
(11:17):
of hijacked the process incertain moments where it was
very clear that they didn'ttrust the treatment center.
They didn't trust the choicethat they had made to put their
loved one in this particulartreatment center.
And it got to a point, luckily,they were able to kind of walk
back from that and realize like,okay, you know, we're creating
a problem here, we're part ofthe crisis, and and they were
(11:40):
able to kind of see some thingsthat they hadn't been able to
see up to that point.
Luckily, the the, the teamrunning the family program, was
just amazing and kind of helpedvery gently help them through
that.
But for a moment there theywere considering not having this
family or this individual be apart of their program anymore,
simply because there was no way,because of the just the rampant
(12:00):
overthinking that was going on.
And you know, a lot of timesit's because there's somebody
with a very high level ofintelligence and it's like, well
, I'm smart, so I can think myway through this.
And it's like, well, I'm smart,so I can think my way through
this and it's tough, it's realtough sometimes to get a family
to get out of the story, likeyou were saying, and get into a
(12:22):
mode where they're willing tofollow a plan to come to a
solution.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
That's what beats the addicted individual over the
head too is because we're highlyintelligent people.
Mainly, we've done some dumbthings, but addicted individuals
are highly intelligent peopleand they feel like they can
think their way through this andit keeps stumping them.
They can't figure out.
Why do I keep going?
Why do I make these insanedecisions?
Families that are veryaccomplished, very highly
intelligent, gifted, talented,successful families that have
(12:53):
thought their way through lifeand have done well and have
reaped the rewards of thinkingwell and following up with
actions on those thoughts andtheir thinking around this with
their loved one just keepspunching them in the face every
single time and it just bafflesthe hell out of them.
It just does, and I get it.
I baffles the hell out of them,it just does, and I get it.
You know, I understand it.
(13:14):
I feel for him.
You know I got off the phonewith his family.
They didn't, they didn'tproceed with an intervention.
Then they called the next dayand said you know what?
We're not ready, we're notready, and so you know I gave
him some suggestions on whatthey can do to get ready is just
get some education, come to thetable with some, with some
(13:35):
family support groups in yourarea or virtually just be
willing to listen and followsome directions in the moments
when I look at the times thatI've been overthinking, because
I'm certainly guilty of this,like any other human being.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
You know, it's been out of fear, it's been out of
how do I, how do I solve thisproblem?
And and I want to solve itInstead of reaching out and
asking for help.
You know, like a lot of people,my tendency is to go inward and
say okay, how do I fix thismyself?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
And and that's a habit that's been really hard
for me to break and to reallyadmit to other people Like I
don't know how to do this, Idon't know how to fix this.
I could really use some helpright now herself that she had
(14:29):
done a lot of research, had beeninvolved in family groups, and
she came to the table, came tothe phone call with this is my
son.
This is what he's been doing.
This is how long it's beengoing on.
These are the actions that wehave taken through the years to
do something about it thathaven't been effective In the
(14:52):
past.
I have been the absolute chiefenabler.
I recognize that I've changedsome behaviors.
We have a huge family thatevery single one of them are
willing 100% to be engaged insome change.
Right now he's being enabled byanother family member but they
recognize that and are willing100% to do some things that
(15:14):
would be effective.
But we don't know what thosethings are.
What do we do?
And she was very clear once wegot off the phone of what to do
and was very willing to go do it.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Those families are so nice to work with because
they've told us.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I told her.
I said you know, look yourbattle's half over.
Like you know, I hope you'll berejoicing because I mean, I
know that your loved one isn'tin.
You know getting well yet.
I said but believe it or not,you're already halfway through
the battle because you alreadyhave the team assembled, you
have the willingness in the teamto follow directions and do
some things differently.
(15:53):
And you come to the tableunderstanding that nothing
that's happened up until thispoint has been effective and
you're seeking some guidance todo something different.
I said that is most of thebattle of an intervention is
forming the team and gettingeveryone willing and able to
follow some directions.
And I know I sound like I'm,you know, chastising families,
(16:14):
but I'm not.
It's just the facts that I'mseeing out here and the things
that I do.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
In the last episode we talked about the guy that I
heard at my first speakermeeting, the guy that I thought
that I was not going to haveanything in common with, who
ended up having a profoundimpact on me and the one thing
that I remember from what hesaid when he talked about his
time in combat in Vietnam.
He talked about the process ofsurrender and he said, when I
(16:41):
was on the battlefield, we wouldengage with the enemy and there
was an exchange of gunfire.
We were trying to kill eachother and when the enemy wanted
to surrender, there was a veryspecific process that we
required them to go through inorder for them not to die.
The first thing that we toldthem to do was throw down their
(17:02):
weapons and get down on theirknees, put their hands in the
air and wait for us to tell themwhat to do.
And he said my addictionrequires the same thing of me.
He said, if I don't throw downmy weapons, get down on my knees
, put my hands in the air andwait for somebody to tell me
what to do, I'm probably goingto die.
(17:24):
And I think for families it maynot necessarily be a life or
death situation for them, but Ithink that that moment of
surrender is just as powerfulfor a family, where they can
just say what I'm doing isn'tworking and I need someone to
tell me what to do.
And so when you have a family,that's come to a conversation
(17:45):
like the one you just described,where there's a degree of
surrender, and sometimes asignificant degree of surrender
it's like I don't know what todo.
But I'd love for you to tell me.
You go into a meeting and youhear somebody say I'm done, I
don't know what to do and I needa sponsor and I need to work
the steps and whatever you guystell me to do, I'm going to do.
That's a guy that's got areally good chance of getting a
(18:05):
good start in recovery and aslong as he maintains that
humility, he's probably going tostay sober.
Same thing with the families.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Yeah, the ones that I see come in like that the guys
that slide in the rooms, thegirls that slide in the rooms,
and they do that they generallyget well.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
It's maintaining that humility.
Sometimes that's the hard part,but again, that's really not
what we're talking about here.
It's that when we overthinkthings, there's this, this
delusion that I'm hanging on tothat maybe I'm going to come up
with the solution, maybe I'mgoing to think my way out of
this, instead of reallyrelenting and saying I don't
know what I'm doing.
(18:41):
Can you tell me?
It seems like you got thisfigured out.
Why don't you tell me what todo?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
I think a key ingredient that they miss and I
can completely understand thisis that they don't maintain the
understanding that their lovedone is currently insane, like
literally insane.
(19:07):
Like no jokes, no exaggeration,no misuse of the word.
Their addicted loved one isliterally insane at that moment,
even when they're not under theinfluence.
They are insane because theymake the decision to go get more
in a stone, cold, sober stateof mind Craziest thing they do.
(19:30):
So they don't really understandthat they're trying to reason
with an insane person and youjust can't do that.
You just can't do that.
Yeah, this family that couldn'tget out of their way was like
they couldn't wrap their headaround the idea that the change
had to start with them, aroundthe idea that the change had to
(19:57):
start with them.
They couldn't wrap their headaround because they were dealing
with a highly accomplished sonbefore addiction took its toll
and really escalated orprogressed.
They could not and I get itbecause you're used to seeing
your loved one before the traincomes off the tracks.
Man, a lot of people that Iwork with that are paying highly
(20:18):
successful careers.
They've created businesses,talented musicians, artists,
very capable people in otherareas of their lives and
families can't wrap their headaround the fact that right now
they're insane.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
And I don't remember if it was on a Thursday night
family call or another call orsession that I was doing with
the family, but I remember veryspecifically there was an
individual within a family whereI was telling them this is what
you're going to need to do toreally establish some
consistency and some boundariesin your relationship.
And the response that I got waswhy do I have to change?
(21:01):
They're the one with theproblem.
And the response that I had togive this person is if that's
the way you're going to look atthis, you're given every bit of
control over your futurehappiness and your present
happiness to something that'scompletely out of your control.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
And what they can't understand at that time when
they say, why do I have tochange?
They can't understand, based onwhere they are, that the change
that they will make, or thatthey should make, could make,
would make, need to make, willbenefit them not only in this
(21:39):
area of their life, with theiraddicted loved one, but with
every relationship that theyhave Like.
This change isn't just specificfor addiction and for this
situation.
It's to live your life by tointeract with people, boundaries
, you know, understanding,lowered expectations, resentment
(22:03):
.
It's the change that is madebenefits them in every area of
their life.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, and that's the thing about boundaries is, if I
have healthy boundaries, I don'thave to worry about trying to
control somebody else.
I mean, that's one of the keythings that I had to learn about
myself as I've gone through alot of the work, both in therapy
and in ACA, and some of thework that I've been doing with
(22:29):
my own trauma is that I was avery controlling and still can
be a very controlling person,and that has everything to do
with a lack of boundaries.
When I don't have boundaries, Iusually am engaged in some sort
of behavior that's either tryingto get something from someone
else by manipulating them to dothings the way that I want them
(22:49):
to, or to try to prevent them orcontrol them from doing
something that I don't want,Instead of just setting a
boundary and saying, okay,that's my line, whatever side of
that line you want to be on,you, let me know.
And when I do that, it frees mein so many different ways and I
don't have to think about whatsomebody else is doing or how
(23:10):
they're going to impact my life.
The boundary's there.
You're welcome to be a part ofmy life.
Just respect that boundary, andthere's so much freedom that
can come from that.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Here's a plot twist too.
Is that if someone's loved onegoes and gets well, like
wellness for an addictedindividual looks like boundaries
too from them, and if you'renot doing your own work and your
loved one goes and gets well,it really latches on.
They're going to startestablishing some boundaries
with you, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I mean, they're going to do that anyways, yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Yeah, I've seen that disrupt some family systems,
mine included, you know, likethey expect you to go off and
get well and come back, andthey've.
They've really, sometimesunknowingly, made an idea in
their head about how you'regoing to show up once you get
well and come back into the homelife.
And you come back a little bitdifferent arm with some
(24:05):
boundaries, that throws them fora curveball, you know, or
throws them for a loop, you know.
So, hey, you can either changenow and help, you know, make it
easier for your loved one to towant to get well, or you can
change later.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
We started out talking about overthinking
things and trying to controlthings, talking about
overthinking things and tryingto control things, and here we
are talking about boundaries,which is really, at the end of
the day, as interventionists,this is what we help families do
is really create a structure intheir relationships, in their
home, that disrupts thedestructive properties of
addiction, the destructiveinfluence of addiction in those
relationships.
(24:43):
And I think, just as I kind ofgo back and retrace our steps
through this conversation,that's spot on.
I overthink things because I'mtrying to control things and I
try to control things because Idon't have boundaries.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
It's like a highway with no jersey wall trying to
control an out-of-control car.
It doesn't work.
You're the jersey wall.
Those of you that don't knowwhat a jersey?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
wall is.
I was going to say I have noidea what you're talking about
when you say jersey wall.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
It's the concrete, it's the border, you see, on the
highways and the medians ofinterstates, and all it's to
keep one from veering off andhitting people head on in the
other lane of traffic.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Okay, so for those of us out west.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
We call those guardrails.
Well, no, there's a guardrail,that's the guardrail, but the
jersey wall is a concrete.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Okay, you know I got you.
You got an out-of-control cargoing crazy, spinning out.
It needs a boundary.
All right, the jersey wall is aboundary.
It crashes into the boundaryand bounces off and doesn't go
into the lane and hit someonehead on and destroy someone
else's life.
We operate, we live onboundaries everywhere we go.
(26:00):
I got down here to the riverhouse through boundaries.
The side of the highway is theboundary Speed limit, the
boundary.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
If I want to go move my fence and put it six feet on
the other side of the propertyline into my neighbor's yard,
I'm probably going to get alittle bit of pushback from my
neighbor.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yeah, most definitely , most definitely.
Yeah, the land I lease out oftown it's got a huge lake on it
and my boundary is around that.
400 acres is my boundary.
If you want into that, you needto ask.
And if you do something that'snot, you know, good for the land
(26:39):
or what we'd agreed upon orwhat I'm willing to allow on
that, then you got to go Likesorry, and it doesn't mean I
have to get into a big argumentwith you.
Got to go Sorry and it doesn'tmean I have to get into a big
argument with you.
I'm not going to.
I don't have to try and forcesomeone to follow the rules.
It's just like, hey, here's theboundary To be here, this is
what's asked of you, this iswhat is expected of you, and if
(27:01):
you can't do that, then youwon't be here.
Simple, simple as that, simple.
And if they push back on it,it's more reason why the
boundary need to be in place tostart with.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Absolutely, and that's the other thing is
there's a consequence attachedto that boundary specifically
that you're talking about andany boundary that's going to
matter.
If I don't attach a consequenceto that good or bad, it really
doesn't mean anything.
Attach a consequence to thatgood or bad, it really doesn't
mean anything.
(27:33):
It's kind of going back to Iwas able to move boundaries in
my family because the messagewas if you do this again,
there's going to be consequences.
And the threat of consequenceis not a consequence.
The threat of consequence iswe'll give you a pass this time,
but do it again and there'sgoing to be a consequence.
Well, I don't have to experienceanything now, I don't have to
change anything now, and so Inever did until they stepped out
(27:58):
of the way and then life had togive me some consequences,
because life is going tonaturally provide us with some
consequences, whether it'sthrough law enforcement, whether
it's legal, whether it'smedical, whether it's relational
.
You know most people out in theworld, they're not going to put
up with my nonsense.
So I've got to show upcorrectly for them If I'm going
(28:18):
to be employed, if I'm going tooperate in society like nobody
cares who I am or what I've doneor what I haven't done.
They there are certainexpectations of me that life
just naturally demands.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Yes, indeed, Indeed.
I learned that the hard waythrough my life many times.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, I think we all have to.
I don't think there's a personthat comes out of this without a
few bumps and bruises andscrapes.
But I guess, as a dad, I hopethat I can give my kids an
opportunity to learn from mymistakes.
But I see them sometimes doingthe exact same things that I did
and it's like okay, bud, herewe go, you're in for it.
(28:55):
You know, if that's how you gotto learn, that's how you got to
learn.
I say bud, because it's usuallymy son.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
I was just going to say, and I told my other, not
tonight, no night before last,night before last, but he was
trying to feed me some BS.
I said, sir, listen, you haveto first realize that what
you're doing here is you'retrying to BS the king of BS.
I said I have been where youare, I've done what you're doing
(29:23):
, I have experienced what youwant to experience and you are
feeding me a line and I have fedthe line.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I've fed it before.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Just stop.
It's not working for you, it'snot.
He's going to have to have anexperience, though, sitting
around drugs or alcohol oranything like that, just around
him doing teenage stuff with histruck.
And I was thinking last nightwhat know the wisdom?
What is wisdom Like?
What is the wisdom I think thewisdom is?
(29:53):
The wisdom is not.
The lack doesn't mean that mymind is never going to tell me
stupid things again.
Ideas is that I'm not going toreact, I'm not going to act on
it immediately, I'm not going tolatch on to it and think that's
a great idea and run with it.
It means that I'm going topause.
(30:13):
Wisdom to me is a lot of livedexperience, so there's not as
many crazy ideas and crazythoughts.
But when the thoughts come,it's the ability to pause and
step back and look at my pastexperiences and relate that to
this idea and say, okay, wheredo I go from here?
(30:34):
It's the slowing down a littlebit.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
You know, and I think to bring this full circle, I
mean, that's a great, great wayto kind of bring this back to
that original thought of justkind of overthinking things.
Because that's that's mybiggest barrier when I'm
overthinking something is I justcan't slow down, I can't stop
thinking, I can't stop thisbrain of mine from running at a
(30:58):
hundred miles an hour and, youknow, hoping that at some point
I'm going to, I'm going to runinto the to the solution,
instead of just stopping andslowing down and saying, okay,
you know, maybe it's time for adifferent perspective, or maybe
it's time for a break.
It's hard to do, it's hard todo for sure and and I hope that
you know, families listening tothis might get something out of
(31:19):
that because you know, when youlook at it, wisdom and knowledge
are very, very different.
You know, knowledge issomething that I've learned.
Wisdom is usually somethingthat I've experienced very
different, you know knowledge issomething that I've learned.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Wisdom is usually something that I've experienced.
Yes, yes, matt, it's been awonderful time.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it, sam, and and uh,
we've actually had somebody inthe audience today.
So, whoever you are, thanks forbeing here and thanks for
eavesdropping in on us.
And uh, for those that want tolisten in in the future and
participate in the recordingsessions that we'll have, feel
free to follow us on socialmedia and if you have questions,
drop them in the chat or we canbring you on here live and
(31:54):
we'll try to help you live onthe podcast here.
We had, we did, we did, we'vehad one person with us.
So they've been with us forabout 20, 25 minutes now.
So thank you for being here and, yeah, hopefully you'll come
back next time.
You see the invitation onsocial media.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Yeah, appreciate it.
If I'd have known I would havedone a different camera angle,
not showing like the undersideof my neck I'm now.
I'm a little self-conscious.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
I had somebody peeping in on us for 25 minutes.
That's why I didn't mention it.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I didn't want you to get self-conscious?
All right, buddy, all right.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
See you next time.
Thanks again for listening tothe party records.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(32:57):
don't enable addiction ever.
On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Let's talk again soon.
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