July 17, 2024 • 47 mins
We want to hear from you! Send us a question or comment.
Join Matt Brown and Sam Davis as they dive into an inspiring interview with Carrie Bates, a three-time gold medalist from the 1984 Summer Olympics. Carrie shares how her older brother's passion for swimming ignited her Olympic dreams and recounts the pivotal moments that shaped her journey toward international success. This intimate conversation offers a glimpse into the dedication and resilience required to compete on the world stage.
We'll hear a powerful story of someone who battled alcoholism for years, experiencing multiple treatment attempts before a transformative stay at the Betty Ford Center in 2012 changed everything. This raw and honest discussion underscores the importance of total commitment and facing one's deepest issues, offering insight into the hard-earned triumphs and ongoing challenges of living a sober life. With twelve and a half years of sobriety, Carrie's journey highlights the often-overlooked strength needed to confront addiction head-on.
The conversation continues with a heartfelt exploration of how addiction and recovery reshape personal and professional lives. We hear from a courageous mother who opens up about the impact of alcoholism on her career and relationships, and from Sam, who shares the emotional journey of losing and regaining his parental rights. The episode concludes with a significant discussion on empowering women in recovery, spotlighting the role of organizations like Hazelden Betty Ford in making treatment accessible. With words of hope and encouragement, this episode is a testament to resilience and the possibility of recovery for anyone struggling with addiction.
If you or someone you know needs help please contact Hazelden Betty Ford and see if they are a good fit for your loved one.
Join us Every Sunday at 8:00 PM PST and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday Night at 8:00 PM EST/5:00PST for a FREE family support group. Register at the following link to get the zoom information sent to you: Family Support Meeting
About our sponsor(s):
Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist. While a professional intervention can be a powerful experience for change, not every family needs a professionally led intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professional intervention, we can help. Hour sessions are $150.
Therapy is a very important way to take care of your mental health. This can happen from the comfort of your own home or office. If you need therapy and want to get a discount on your first month of services please try Better Help.
If you want to know more about the host's private practice please visit:
Matt Brown: Freedom Interventions
Follow the host on TikTok
Matt: @mattbrowninterventionist
If you have a question that we can answer on the show, please email us at matt@partywreckers.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
professional interventionistsMatt Brown and Sam Davis.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism and are
reluctant to get the help thatthey need.
We hope to educate andentertain you while removing the
(00:25):
fear from the conversation.
Stay with us and we'll get youthrough it.
Please welcome the partywreckers, matt Brown and Sam
Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
All right, everybody, welcome back.
Thanks for joining us foranother episode.
My name is Matt Brown and I'mhere with Sam Davis back.
Thanks for joining us foranother episode.
My name is Matt Brown and I'mhere with Sam Davis and we get
together.
We try to do this weekly,although unsuccessfully in most
weeks, but we are here today.
We've got a great interview foryou guys today.
But for those of you who arenew to the podcast, this is a
(00:59):
podcast for families who haveloved ones who are struggling
with addiction, who are notgoing to choose to get help on
their own, and so Sam and I, aspracticing interventionists, we
work primarily with families toreally help them get their loved
ones the help that they need,and really the purpose of this
podcast is to kind of take awaythe mystery and the fear from
(01:21):
the conversation aroundaddiction, and so, without
further ado, let me introduce toyou my co-host, sam Davis.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Well, hello everyone and hello Matt.
It's always good to be here.
You know, if the audience justknew what it took for me to be
able to get on a microphone, Imean, honestly, I'm jealous of
you.
Look, I'm sitting here with novideo.
We've got a guest, carrieWonderful, wonderful.
I can't wait to hear what shehas to say and Matt will
introduce her in a second.
(01:47):
But I'm sitting here with novideo and it took me five
minutes to put my earpiece inbecause I couldn't figure that
out.
I got cords everywhere and Istruggle.
It's like, as I'm looking overthis landscape in front of me,
it's like a representation ofthe, of the manageability of my
life.
And, uh, you know, they sayyour outsides match your insides
(02:10):
.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Evidently, I've got some work to do internally,
evidently, apparently, butnevertheless, here you are and
you're coming throughbeautifully on audio, sam.
So we're we're going to do thisjust fine today.
I am glad to be here.
How's everything going on yourend of the country?
You guys staying cool out there.
Are you having the same heatwave that we're having out this
(02:32):
side?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
No, it's 103 right now, and the humidity's I don't
know.
Can you go over 100 in humidity?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I'm sure if anywhere can, you guys in the South
probably can.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yeah, I mean I'm looking at three ospreys out the
window right now.
They just look like they're outthere struggling, just
suffering.
It's hot, it's hot, yeah.
But how are things on the WestCoast?
I'm going to see you next week.
We're going to be in SouthCarolina.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yes, we are think we're going to be out on the
water doing some fishing forCobia here before too long as
well, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
We are on the SS, no mo blow.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I love the name of that boat Recover out loud.
There you go, there you go.
Well, let me introduce today'sguest.
I think everybody's in for areal treat today and I'm going
to try to get your resumecorrect here, carrie.
I've known Carrie for a numberof years.
She and I are colleagues inthis industry.
She works for a treatmentcenter here Well, it's a
national treatment center butshe lives here in the Pacific
(03:33):
Northwest.
She works for Hazelden BettyFord.
But prior to that, I don't knowthe entirety of your resume, but
as we get close to the timewhere we're going to be watching
the Summer Olympics again,carrie was an Olympic swimmer
back in 1984.
She won I think it was, threegold medals.
Is that right, carrie?
That's right.
Yeah, she won three gold medalsin the 100 meter freestyle, the
(03:56):
four by 100 meter medley andthe freestyle, the freestyle
relay right, the 100 meterfreestyle relay.
Correct, yep?
And prior to that, you actuallylike.
I think, if I looked at yourWikipedia page correctly, you
actually started competinginternationally at about 15
years old, is that right?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
I did Yep.
That was really the first timethat I had started, had made
Team USA and started travelinginternationally.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So what got you into competitive swimming?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
You know, I think it was because my older brother did
.
You know, I just kind offollowed what he did and he was
swimming and so I startedswimming and you know,
eventually he stopped and Ireally, you know, I think we all
gravitate to where we feel somesuccess.
And you know, at a young age Ihad some success in the sport
and I enjoyed it, so I stuckwith it.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Even you know, long after he moved on to football
and other sports that he hadmore interest in and how old
were you when you started torealize like this actually may
be something that that takes yousomewhere?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
I was probably 13,.
I would guess maybe just a fewyears prior to the Olympics 13,.
I would guess maybe just a fewyears prior to the Olympics.
Um, you know, I knew that I hadalways wanted and dreamt of
being an Olympian.
I mean, I think many athletesdo, um, but I'm not sure I
really realized that, that thatpiece of it I didn't realize was
possible until probably theyear before 1983 is when I
(05:22):
really realized that there was areal shot that I could make
that team.
But when I was about 13, I wasstarting to win junior nationals
and finding my way onto thescene, so to speak, but still a
long ways from making theOlympic team.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, you competed.
If I understand the timelinecorrectly, you were what?
16, 17 years old when youcompeted in the Olympics.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Yeah, I was 16 years old, so what was that like as a
16-year-old?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I mean, I remember back being 16 years old, living
in this little farm town, being,I think, a sophomore in high
school, not knowing which endwas up and I was afraid to talk
to girls at that point.
And here you are, getting on aninternational stage, getting
ready to jump in a pool and wina gold medal.
(06:11):
Like there's a very starkdifference between us at 16
years old.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
What was that like for you, as a 16 year old, to
step onto that stage?
You know, I think that it wasum.
I'm not sure.
At 16 I really fully understoodthe gravity of what I was doing
.
I just knew that everything Ihad always dreamt of was coming
true in that moment.
I'm not sure I understood howthat 56 seconds, that 55 seconds
was going to shape the entireentirety of the rest of my life.
(06:37):
I'm not sure I understood that.
That 55 seconds that I wouldspend probably 30 years chasing
something that made me feel likethat 55 seconds, um, that I
would spend probably 30 yearschasing something that made me
feel like that 55 seconds did Um.
But I will tell you, I had a lotof fun.
I had a lot of fun in LA.
Um, it was the first time I hadbeen on the today show and I
(06:58):
was in a limousine, and you knowthese are experiences, as you
know that at 16, are incredibly,incredibly exciting and I'm
kind of thankful I didn't reallyrealize the gravity of it
because I'm not sure I was ableI would have been able to stay
kind of in the moment as much asI was.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Well, even on a political scale, the world
looked very, very different backthen.
Even on a political scale, theworld looked very, very
different back then.
Like you were competing againstwhat at that point was East
German swimmers Correct.
The Soviet Union had boycottedthe 1984 Olympics, correct?
So among the athletes that youwere training with and competing
(07:40):
with, was there any of thatthat was brought into the
competition?
Were there friction betweencountries?
Was there anything that reallykind of impacted you as an
athlete as you looked atathletes from other countries
and what was going onpolitically with our countries?
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Yeah, sure, I mean the 84 team was heavily impacted
by politics because so many ofthe kids that had made the 1980
team that we boycotted stuckaround for 84.
So you know, back then we hadwhat was considered an older
Olympic team because we had alot of collegiate postgraduates
that were still swimming.
(08:20):
You know, back then there wasno money to be made in the sport
.
So you know, if you swamthrough college, which most of
us did because we weren't outmaking enough money to pay for
our call, you know to get to payfor what a full ride looked
like for us.
But you know, so when you, whenyou graduated from college, you
had to go get a job, you know,and now these kids can swim.
(08:41):
I mean, we've got people on theOlympic team that are in their
thirties and they're parents andthey have families.
So, um, politics really playeda big part in what, how it
shaped the 84 team.
Um and sure, the first time Isaw the East German women was
like overwhelming.
I mean they were, um, very muchappeared like men, deep voices,
(09:07):
you know, larger women, youknow, and I was five, six and
130 pounds.
I was not aware or saw or everwas offered or around any kind
of performance enhancing drugsat all.
It was not ever a part ofconversations I had.
(09:38):
It was never part of anybody'slives that I knew that were
competing on an elite level.
I'm sure they existed, but itwas certainly far from the world
I lived in.
I came from a small town inNorthern California and a very
small little swim club where Ibecame a pretty big fish in a
(09:59):
small pond and I was really oneof the only one of two people
that even made it to Olympictrials from that team.
So I lived a pretty shelteredlife.
You know I wasn't exposed to alot of the things that you know,
like traveling to South Americaand seeing the way other
countries lived and the extremepoverty, and you know things
(10:24):
like that.
So you know I got a prettyearly education which I
appreciated um of the world.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
So after the Olympics , you you did go on to college.
You went to university of Texas, right?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Hook them horns, sam and I both have ties to Austin,
so we're, we're, we're glad thatwe've got another Austin night
here with us.
Um, you, you talked about kindof chasing, that feeling of
those 55 seconds.
What changed for you after theOlympics and what?
What was it that you felt likeyou were chasing and how did you
find that?
Speaker 4 (11:02):
You know, um, I think that when, when, as elite
athletes, you know, we functionon a really, really high level
of serotonin and these kind ofepic highs, right, and that's
not just when you're racing andwinning and competing, but it's
what we feel every day whenwe're training for five and six
(11:25):
hours a day, be it, you know,whether it be in the pool or out
of the pool.
You know, when I, when I wonthe Olympics, I remember
standing on that platformthinking, you know, please don't
forget the words to thenational anthem on, you know,
global television.
And the other feeling Iremember having was I had no
(11:49):
idea who I was.
In a way, I felt almost like animposter, very insecure.
I felt very out of place, whichis so interesting as we get
more wisdom and hindsight aslife moves on.
(12:10):
So I think what I looked forwas not only the feeling of what
it felt like to touch that walland see the number one by my
name and everything that wentalong with that, but I think I
looked for that Um, I am enough.
I am um a champion.
(12:31):
I am um, I'm validated.
People think I'm good atsomething.
Um, I sought a lot ofvalidation and a lot of my own
self-worth and self-esteemthrough my sport, and so I think
(12:52):
that I was always chasing thatand to a certain extent I felt
it in college.
But then when I went, olympictrials were in Austin in 1988, I
was still ranked number one inthe world at that time.
There was no reason for me notto make that Olympic team.
And you know, I went to Olympictrials and I basically fell
(13:12):
apart mentally and I was firstalternate.
And so when they assembled theOlympic team on the side of that
pool deck on the last night andI was in the stands in Austin
watching my friends, myboyfriend, everyone stand up
along that side of the wall onthe side of the pool and know
(13:33):
that I wasn't going.
Um, was that?
Was life altering?
Um, and that's really the firsttime that I remember taking a
drink for the sole purpose ofnot feeling so, had you already
started drinking alcoholicallyat that point?
(13:54):
No, I had not, you know I.
I, of course, as I think manyof us that find ourselves in
recovery do look back and thinkand wonder if I drank
differently back then.
And you know it's a little hardto navigate because as elite
athletes, I think we always hadthis mentality that we trained
hard and we played hard, and soI don't remember my drinking
(14:17):
standing out more than most ofthe other people that I spent
most of my life with.
But I guess it doesn't reallymatter, I guess when we cross
that proverbial line, but Idefinitely don't think that I
drank alcoholically actuallyuntil much later in my life,
(14:38):
which is pretty common for women, pretty common for women.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
So at what point you know, after the 88 trials, what,
what happened.
You know when you, when you'researching for that identity and
the, the source of your identity, isn't readily accessible for
you, or at least not asaccessible as it has been.
What did you do at that point?
How did you try to find that,that place where we all want to
(15:03):
fit in in our lives?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, you know, I, I grasped, I grabbed, grasped that
many things, um, and ultimatelyI spent 30 years looking for it
.
I thought, you know, gettingmarried would make me feel that.
I thought having my beautifulchildren would make me feel that
same feeling, and I rememberfeeling so much guilt and shame
(15:28):
that it didn't.
And then I found myselfreaching for the bottle and
somehow that filled this holethat somehow existed in my soul
and made me feel, um, worthy andvalidated and pretty and social
(15:55):
, um, and it made me feel, um,funny and um, all these things
that I didn't feel about myself,and it and it worked for a
while.
It worked for a while, and then, you know, and then it stopped
working, right, and then I gotto the crossroads that many of
(16:16):
us find ourselves in, and I wasthere more than once, for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
You mean that you attempted recovery more than
once?
Speaker 4 (16:24):
You mean that you attempted recovery more than
once?
Yeah, my first attempt atrecovery was in 2010.
I had been on the phone thenight prior with a girlfriend of
mine, my now ex-husband.
(16:44):
The father of my kids had movedout of the home and it was
based on my drinking Um and Iwas actively suicidal that night
.
So they, uh she did a welfarecheck on me and the police spoke
to my kids, scared the hell outof them.
They were quite young and Ientered treatment actually the
next day for the first time, andthat was in um May of 2010.
And then I proceeded to go tofour residential treatment
(17:11):
programs four times in atwo-year period of time, so I
spent a significant amount ofdays in treatment.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
So I think a lot of the families that would be
listening to this can relate tothe fact that either them or
their loved one has had multipleattempts at recovery and has
gone to multiple treatmentprograms.
In your experience, what was it?
Was it the mentality that youkind of went in with Like, were
(17:41):
you not fully committed?
Did you not understand what thereal problem was?
Why don't you think the firsttime worked, or the second time,
or the fourth time?
Or do you feel like yoursuccess is just a culmination of
all four times?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting to look back on that
time because I think that Ithink I was fully admit I had
full acceptance in 2010 when Ientered treatment the first time
that I was an alcoholic.
What I don't think I understoodwas the work that it was going
to entail for me to findrecovery and to find sustainable
(18:19):
recovery, and those two thingsare very different.
And I think that when I went totreatment the first time, I
thought, if I got, you know, a'son all my projects that the
counselors gave me and I was agood little girl and I only told
them what I thought they wantedto hear rather than really
(18:40):
telling them my truth, that Icould kind of check that box.
Thank you very much.
And now I have a life to getback to, not really
understanding what it would takepost-treatment and um a you
know if, if 12 steps was goingto be part of my life and you
know all these things.
So for me, I think that, um,the learning process, you know,
(19:06):
for me, what I learned overthose two years was that
everything that had contributedto me being the best in the
world in my sport were the verythings that were killing me in
my alcoholism, the selfmotivation that you know.
Don't ask for help.
(19:26):
If you just work harder, youcan figure out this problem you
seem to have with not being ableto stop drinking.
Um, and obviously, what we knowtoday is none of those are true
, right and so, um, when I wentto treatment the last time in
(19:47):
2012,.
Um, my sobriety date isFebruary 1st of 2012.
I made a decision about a weekbefore I decided I would try
treatment one more time, that Iwould detox alone at home and if
I survived which I reallydidn't want to survive, but if I
, if I wanted to, if I survived,I made the promise to myself,
(20:12):
or my higher power, whatever youbelieve in that I would try one
more time to save my life.
And so I started a very scaryfive days of DTs and voices and
TVs that weren't on violentlyill, um, they're pretty sure I
had a seizure and you know I Ipulled out the other side and,
(20:38):
um, and I decided that I wasgoing to do what I committed to
do and I was going to go try onemore time.
And I went down to Californiaand I checked into the Betty
Ford center on February 1st and,um, and really, I never looked
back.
You know, I spent 90 days thereand it was the greatest gift my
father ever gave me.
(20:59):
You know, at his funeral I saidyou know, my dad gave me life
and he also saved my life and,um, I needed every minute of
that 90 days.
As a matter of fact, when Ifinished, I asked if I could
start over, um, and I got honestfor the first time.
I told all of my truth, to thepoint where people would be in
(21:21):
group and I'd say something andthey'd be like, oh my God, like
I can't believe.
You just said that outside, andI mean out loud.
And you know, I had to.
I had to acknowledge that I was.
I was not in treatment to makefriends, um, I was not in
treatment to sign somebody's bigbook.
I was not in treatment to signsomebody's big book.
I was not in treatment to umwaste time.
(21:42):
Um, I was either going to liveor die.
And, uh, and I made the choiceto do whatever I could to live.
And so far, you know, 12 and ahalf years later, I'm still.
I'm still living and I'm livinga pretty damn good life and a
half years later, I'm still.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I'm still living, and I'm living a pretty damn good
life.
So what changed then?
Like as you're thinking ofgoing through this five or six
day horrific detox where you'rehaving hallucinations and
seizures and hoping that you'lldie, to all of a sudden, on the
other end of these 90 days, justfighting tooth and nail and
being able to do whatever it'sgoing to take to live what was
that shift?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I think that when I survived detox, that I was
willing to consider that therewas a purpose for me, that there
was a purpose for so broken andempty and hopeless and gutted.
(22:41):
I had to believe that there wasa purpose and it was okay that
in that moment I didn't knowwhat that purpose was, that and,
and you know, back then I couldhave thought, well, maybe it's
to be a mom to my girls, or youknow.
And another thing that I reallyrealized was that this thing,
(23:02):
this, this thing addiction, youknow, substance use disorder is
so much stronger than love.
You know we, you hear so muchchatter and judgment and stigma
against those of us thatstruggle with the sickness and
um and honestly I think womenhave it worse Um, and then you
(23:24):
add being a mom on top of that,and I think that we suffer more
stigma and judgment and ridiculethan our male counterparts.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I don't disagree with that at all, but I am curious
to like what?
What is your, what is yourthought behind that?
Why do you think women get itworse than men?
Because I think you're right.
I'm just curious to know what.
What, what drives that thoughtfor you?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Yeah, I think it's because, um, you know,
historically women are thecenter of a home, for example,
um, you know, the house revolvestypically around the women.
If you have children, right,we're the ones who plan the
social life, we plan the meals,we're planning you know what I'm
saying?
Like, we kind of are thequarterback of the house, and so
(24:10):
I think the expectation is that, you know, we do it all.
We, many of us, work, we raisekids, we do it all.
We, many of us, work, we raisekids, we're managing a household
.
You know, um, and, and I thinkthat you know, you hear things
like um, you know, when you talkabout women, alcoholics, do you
hear derogatory statementsabout being loose, or um, or
(24:36):
horrible mothers or what aterrible person.
But for men, you hear thingslike oh, he just can't handle
his alcohol.
Oh, there goes, johnny, again,he snuck out of the bar and
drove home when we all told himhe couldn't, but nobody would
approach him and say but nobodywould approach him and say what
(24:58):
a terrible father you are fordriving under the influence of
alcohol.
So I just think that there is adifferent stigma for women.
But here's the deal.
Like I was told all thosethings.
You're a horrible mother.
You're a horrible person.
As a matter of fact, I was toldbefore I left for treatment the
(25:18):
last time just disappear, likeif you just disappear and not
come back, the kid, your kidswill be better off.
Someone told you that.
Of course, I was told all this,and the reality is I believed
every word of it.
(25:38):
And the reality is I believedevery word of it, I believed
every word of it that I was aworthless, horrible mom, human,
all of the above.
And that whole Olympic championat 16 to low bottom alcoholic
in 2012, those don't evenconnect anymore.
(26:02):
Right Like there.
There is no feeling within methat that's even the same person
, like at all.
I couldn't have cared lessabout the Olympics.
I just didn't.
I, my choice was, what I had tocare about was if I was going
to choose to live or die, and so, um, and yeah, I mean, I was
(26:23):
told all those things.
As a matter of fact, when I cameback from treatment after 90
days, you know I, I was terrible, terribly afraid, because I
knew I'd have to come home andface the wreckage of my past.
I had to come home and face thepeople that I had hurt, most
importantly, my family, mychildren, my father.
And at 96 days sober, I walkedinto a courtroom here in Oregon
(26:48):
and I had my legal rights as amom taken away.
And the reason I had my legalrights taken away is because my
husband's attorney felt that hewould be best as a single parent
, as a sole legal parent for thegirls.
And what the judge said to methat morning as he took my legal
(27:11):
rights away, was all you haveto do is stay sober for two
years and all your rights willbe do is stay sober for two
years and all your rights willbe reinstated.
And I said to him please don'tsay things like that to people
like me, because two days, twoweeks, two months is a lifetime
(27:36):
and two years feels like forever.
And you know, I left thatcourtroom and I don't know.
You know, sometimes I wonder whyI'm one of the lucky ones, you
know, and why I'm, why I'mmaking it right now, because I
certainly that that was, thatwas the most humiliating and
devastating, gut-wrenching thingthat I have ever experienced.
(27:58):
Um, but you know, I had.
I had a lot of women and a lotof friends that taped my ass
back on when it was falling offand it fell off a lot and um,
but I'll be dang if we didn'tmake it through those two years.
And, and you know, the girlsand I did it together.
You know we scratched andclawed our way.
You know we scratched andclawed our way to this life and
(28:23):
we earned it.
And, um, you know they have astory too.
This isn't just my story and mystory isn't their story.
And um, you know they're adultsnow and, um, I would argue we
have a better relationship todaythan I ever would have dreamt
possible.
Um, and you know it's funny,like my oldest daughter, when
she was looking at collegesseveral years ago, we were down
(28:45):
in San Luis Obispo and we weresitting outside of a of like a
bar restaurant on the beach, andyou know, of course, it felt
like everyone was drinkingexcept me, and she must've
picked up on it.
And she said, mom, do you stillwish that you could drink?
And I said, of course I stillwish I could drink.
You know, I still wish I would,I still wish I could be a
(29:07):
normal drinker, but I but thatdoesn't mean I'm going to drink
again.
What that means is that I'mbeing honest with myself and it
doesn't mean I'm sitting on myhands and craving a drink, but
what it means is that I do wishthat I was still a normal
drinker, but I have fullacceptance that I'm not.
(29:31):
And so, um, you know, sometimeswe hear things from our kids.
She said but mom, if youweren't an alcoholic, there's
not one thing in your life thatwould exist the way it does
today If you hadn't been throughwhat she went, what you went
through, and she was 100% rightNothing, my career, my
relationships, my ability toshow up for others, um, my
(29:55):
passion and purpose finallyintersecting.
At 50 years old, you know, shewas.
Sometimes it's out of the mouthof our own babes that we get to
learn Right?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Absolutely, sam.
I felt like I've kind ofdominated the conversation here
on our side.
Is there anything you wanted totalk about or ask?
Well, uh well, I stepped backand quit being selfish.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
No, I was just sitting back listening to the
whole thing she was.
What an amazing story is great.
And you know, I feel for youand feel with you and was one of
the ones that stood beforejudge as well and lost his
rights to his kids.
Well, I didn't lose them.
I gave them away.
Right, I didn't lose it.
My actions gave it away.
And you know, I come back in2012 and I'm a single full-time
(30:39):
dad of two boys, you know, andwe didn't want to be that way.
You know, we didn't every time.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
I'd promise it was never on my bucket list.
I know that.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I mean, and it was a road of healing for sure for us.
I mean it's there was a levelof distrust them towards me for
a number of years afterwards.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Of course.
I mean we teach people how totreat us Right and when we lie,
sneak, steal, cheat, hide, youknow, unfortunately, people are
going to treat us like liars,sneaks.
People are going to treat uslike liars, sneaks.
You know, thieves and and andbad people Right.
And so what I love aboutrecovery is we get the.
(31:25):
We get the opportunity toretreat, reteach people how to
treat us Some will and somewon't and, um, you know, the
train pulls out of the stationand neither of those people are
going to be on it, um, orthey're not.
And I had a lot of people stillon the platform when my train
pulls out of the station andneither those people are going
to be on it or they're not.
And I had a lot of people stillon the platform when my train
pulled out.
And it's OK.
You know, it really is OK.
(31:45):
And you know I remember when,after treatment, it was a few
years and it maybe was about ayear, and I remember my kids
started kind of asking me somereally pointed questions, like
about the night that I had awelfare check done on me and
what happened.
(32:06):
And you know, of course, as thealcoholic, I instantly feel the
stab of shame and guilt, right,and what my therapist told me
was no, no, no, no.
When they start asking youquestions, they know you're safe
(32:29):
.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
That is a sign of growth.
And I was like, ah, like, whata great way to frame that, yeah
Right.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
And sometimes we're so close to it because I spent
the first two years of myrecovery unable to look at
myself in the mirror because ofshame.
I still was carrying this deeprooted shame and guilt for who
and what I had become as amatter of fact.
(32:54):
I remember showing up at like Icould go to my kids' sporting
events and I remember sittingthere wishing so desperately
sober to be invisible.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
I understand that.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
And yeah, except for them, if only the girls could
see me.
But I could just be invisibleto everybody else.
And I'm talking, you know,brush your teeth in the shower,
not looking in the mirror, right.
And then you know, it took mefour years into my recovery to
kind of, you know, use myplatforms, my social media
(33:30):
platforms, et cetera, and reallykind of start using my voice.
And I think the first post I puton Facebook was of a picture of
my Olympic gold medal next tomy four year um Alcoholics
Anonymous coin.
And I think what I wrote wassomething along the lines of the
(33:50):
large the large metalrepresents what I did and the
small metal represents who I am.
I did and the small metalrepresents who I am.
And then at that, at that point, I think the next phase, the
true joy, the, the freedom ofrecovery, really started to
(34:15):
settle in for me, really startedto settle in for me.
I was so, and I still am tothis day, so proud to be a woman
in recovery, far more proud ofthat than any Olympic gold
medals, anything.
As a matter of fact, I believethat the Olympics happened for
me 40 years ago strictly toserve me today, to have a
(34:40):
platform to talk about stigma,shame, guilt and recovery, and
hope that one person can hearthat message and say I can get
help too.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Well, as you talk about that, it's very
interesting to me that you knowyou got this gold medal very
young, these gold medals withoutan identity, and that was kind
of who you were at the time asan Olympic champion.
You get the smaller gold medallater on in life, having already
started to develop an identity,and that identity carried you
(35:14):
into now what is not justworking for a treatment center,
but you've been in front ofpoliticians and helped to shape
policy and you know.
Talk a little bit about whatyour recovery not only has done
for you, but how you've beenable to impact the way people
see sobriety and from a policystandpoint, from a PR standpoint
(35:36):
, I know that you have had aplatform and I'd love to hear
some of the things that you feellike you're most proud of in
your recovery that you've beenable to contribute to.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Yeah, um, you know, when I was about four or five
years sober, I remember Ithought about working at
Hazelden Betty Ford becausealmost all of my treatment, um,
and my recovery existed withinthat system of care and, um,
(36:05):
yeah, and so I applied online tobe a tech, right, and you guys
know what a tech is, but maybeall the listeners don't.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
That's how I started out, yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
So I was 48 years old or something and I'd spent my
whole career in the sportsindustry and I had a very
successful, lovely career.
And I spent the last 15 yearsat Nike and one of their
subsidiaries, converse, and Ithought I had the world at my
fingertips, right.
I had a great career, greatmarriage, beautiful kids and I
(36:40):
was dying inside, like I wasjust dying.
So I find myself applying forthis job that I don't even know
what it paid maybe $18.
I don't even know, but I knew Iwanted to see if there was a
space for me in this field, ifthere was a space that I could
exist and help others.
And I knew one of the ways todo that was to be a tech and
(37:03):
really learn every aspect ofwhat goes on On the other side
of the desk in treatment.
I knew what it was like to be apatient, but I didn't know what
it was like to be on the otherside.
And I will tell you that year Ispent as a tech was probably
one of the most fun and amazingyears of work that I've had in
(37:23):
my career.
But I also learned where myniche was.
People would say you should goback to school and get your CADC
.
And I was like, listen, at 50years old, I don't really think
I'm going to go back to schooland reinvent the wheel, but I do
know that I have a sales andmarketing background that
expands many years.
(37:44):
And so I started working herein development.
So I help work with all of ourprofessional referents here in
Oregon and Matt, you're one ofthem and we're lucky to have you
as one of our trusted partners.
(38:07):
And then my role started toexpand because, you know, I
started doing some publicspeaking and I was starting to
share my story publicly andthings were hitting YouTube and
you know there was a little bitof traction that happened there.
So the organization he'sLumbetti Ford started utilizing
(38:28):
me in more of a national scope.
So now I really am more of a Imean, I still do some
development, but I'm also Ireally am also doing a lot of
brand ambassador work.
So I go to the Hill for to dosome advocacy work with our
advocacy team, which has beensuper eyeopening in terms of
(38:49):
what it's going to take for thiscountry to look at the, the
fentanyl crisis and and you knowbut let's be honest, alcohol is
still the number one killer outthere, so we can't forget the
problems that we're also stillhaving with alcohol.
So you know his little buddyFord was was the the
organization that really helpedmake um addiction treatment part
(39:12):
of parody and um people be ableto use their insurance to pay
for this.
You know so, um, and we stillhave a lot of work to do right.
And you know, sam and Matt, youknow this as well as I do, and
I think we're all out theretrying to um, trying to do the
work and trying to have animpact where we can and to
(39:34):
affect people's lives and toaffect um people's ability to
access care, to access treatment.
Um and um I just it's, it'sreally fulfilling work, you know
it's.
It's this is where my passionand my purpose is finally
intercepted, and um, and I have,and it's just for me, recovery
(39:59):
and and sustainable recovery hasreally been um total freedom.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Well, when you talk about parody and and and that it
just brought back so manymemories, I don't think a lot of
people realize that it wasn'tup until the Obama
administration, where they wereoverhauling the insurance and
the healthcare systems, thatpeople could actually get denied
coverage.
Even if they had a wonderful,robust insurance policy, they
could get denied coveragebecause it was a preexisting
condition or for any otherreasons or it wasn't treated the
(40:27):
same way as other medicalconditions.
And yeah, I do remember thosedays and I did not know that
Hazelden Betty Ford was kind ofon the forefront of that fight
for parity.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Yeah, yeah, and you know I didn't spend one day in
treatment on insurance.
So I was one of those peoplethat had great insurance but
they denied coverage fortreatment for a substance use
disorder.
And you know, I'm I'm fortunatethat I had my father had
resources to get me the helpthat I needed, um, and I am
(40:58):
grateful to this day.
He's been gone for six yearsnow and I I'm grateful to this
day for the gift of recoverythat that he truly um gave me by
by getting me in and out oftreatment four times.
But I didn't spend a day intreatment with insurance.
(41:18):
I mean I have.
I was so happy when I finallyspent I had finally surpassed
the number of days I had spentas a patient at Hazelden Betty
Ford, as an employee right, Imean, that was a big number.
And I remember getting my firstpaycheck and I was like, oh my
God, I'm finally not writingthem a check.
So a lot of these things peopledon't realize that exists today
(41:45):
has been done by people like you, matt and Sam and myself.
Invite people like you, mattand Sam and myself, and and many
, many people that have walkedbefore us, that have fought for
the, fought for this and foughtfor us to be able to use
insurance and to be able toaccess care.
And is it perfect?
Not by us, not by a long shot,um.
And do we have a long way to go?
Absolutely, but, man, theprogress we've made just since
(42:08):
I've been sober for 12 and ahalf years is pretty staggering,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yeah, it has been.
And as we wrap up here, carrie,if there are moms or women
listening, what would yourmessage be to them in particular
?
Because I mean, we can talkabout what it's like to be sober
, we can talk what it's like tobe sober as men, but what would
you say to the women listeningright now, whether it's moms who
(42:35):
are struggling themselves, orhusbands who have wives, or
parents who have daughters as awoman in recovery and as
somebody who represents a reallywonderful organization where
people get great help, whatwould you say to them and what
kind of help could they expectto get if they were to reach out
to Hazelden Betty Ford?
Speaker 4 (42:54):
Yeah, I think that you know, for women and moms, I
think that what we what I wouldsay is um is there is hope and
there's a lot of hope and helpand and what what we're told is
just um, it's just a lie, it'sall BS that we're told that
(43:16):
we're, we are not bad momstrying to get good.
We're sick and we need to getwell, and what I will tell you
is the strongest women I've thatI know, in my life today are
not the women that I knew thatwere winning Olympic gold medals
.
There are the women that I'vemet in recovery that are, that
are um, present and sober, momsthat, um, don't have to live
(43:41):
under shame and guilt anymoreand they don't have to live
hiding secrets and pretending tobe something that everyone
thought that we should be.
You know they get to live intheir truth and part of my truth
, you know, there's very fewthings I'll always be, and one
of those is a mom, One of thoseis an Olympian and the other one
(44:04):
of those things is an alcoholic, and I hope to be an alcoholic
and recovery the rest of my life.
But you know, always, foreverand never are um words that I
really don't use anymore because, um, we can change and we do
change and, um, our kids are,are better off because of it.
(44:24):
They are going to respect you,they're going to love you and
they're going to be proud of you.
You know, when my kids startedposting about my sobriety on
their Instagram, I knew life hadchanged in a real positive
direction, because they weren'tashamed of it and they didn't
hide it, and because I made themknow that it was okay to talk
(44:45):
about it and to share it.
Because what our kids don'trealize is that one in five kids
in their classrooms are sittingthere with a parent struggling
with substance use disorder.
They're not alone, but theyfeel alone.
So, you know, I just say thelie is dead.
The lie is dead and we dorecover.
There is a lot of hope andthere's a lot of help, and
(45:07):
certainly Hazelden Betty Fordhas some amazing programs, as
well as many other treatmentcenters in this country have
amazing programs and there'sgender specific treatment if you
need it.
And so the biggest thing Iwould say is, no matter who you
call, make the call.
Pick up that 10,000 pound phoneand make the call and ask for
(45:31):
help, because it's the bravest,most courageous thing you'll
ever do in your life.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
And for people who do want to look for help within
the Hazelden Betty Ford program,what's the best way for them to
go about doing that?
Speaker 4 (45:42):
Yeah, they can look us up on our website
hazeldenbettyfordorg.
There's tons of resources inthere, not just on our sites and
programs, but even just generalinformation about addiction and
you know the brain and allthese things.
There's lots of resources onthat website.
And then if there's questionsabout you know admissions or
(46:03):
insurance or any of those things, they can always reach out on
our 855 number, which is855-348-7018.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Well, Carrie Bates, thank you for being here today.
We appreciate you spending sometime and I know you're a busy
woman, but thanks for giving ussome time to be with us and let
us ask you some questions andget to know you a little bit
better today.
Speaker 4 (46:24):
Yeah, I really appreciate you guys having me.
Thank you so much and Sam,hopefully someday we'll get to
meet.
You know in person.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Absolutely.
If not just you know, can't dothat At least video to video
instead of voice to video.
Exactly, it was great, I wouldlove it yeah.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
Oh, thank you, Thank you so much.
And, matt, you know, you knowyou're our, you're a trusted
partner of ours and weappreciate everything that
you're out there doing from anintervention standpoint with um,
with not just people that wework with but all the patients
that you're out there trying toget some help.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
So thank you guys, yep.
Thanks, carrie, thank you Byenow, bye-bye.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Thanks again for listening to the party records.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atpartywreckerscom and remember
(47:26):
don't enable addiction ever.
On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Let's talk again soon.
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
professional interventionistsMatt Brown and Sam Davis.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism and are
reluctant to get the help thatthey need.
We hope to educate andentertain you while removing the
(00:25):
fear from the conversation.
Stay with us and we'll get youthrough it.
Please welcome the partywreckers, matt Brown and Sam
Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
All right, everybody, welcome back.
Thanks for joining us foranother episode.
My name is Matt Brown and I'mhere with Sam Davis back.
Thanks for joining us foranother episode.
My name is Matt Brown and I'mhere with Sam Davis and we get
together.
We try to do this weekly,although unsuccessfully in most
weeks, but we are here today.
We've got a great interview foryou guys today.
But for those of you who arenew to the podcast, this is a
(00:59):
podcast for families who haveloved ones who are struggling
with addiction, who are notgoing to choose to get help on
their own, and so Sam and I, aspracticing interventionists, we
work primarily with families toreally help them get their loved
ones the help that they need,and really the purpose of this
podcast is to kind of take awaythe mystery and the fear from
(01:21):
the conversation aroundaddiction, and so, without
further ado, let me introduce toyou my co-host, sam Davis.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Well, hello everyone and hello Matt.
It's always good to be here.
You know, if the audience justknew what it took for me to be
able to get on a microphone, Imean, honestly, I'm jealous of
you.
Look, I'm sitting here with novideo.
We've got a guest, carrieWonderful, wonderful.
I can't wait to hear what shehas to say and Matt will
introduce her in a second.
(01:47):
But I'm sitting here with novideo and it took me five
minutes to put my earpiece inbecause I couldn't figure that
out.
I got cords everywhere and Istruggle.
It's like, as I'm looking overthis landscape in front of me,
it's like a representation ofthe, of the manageability of my
life.
And, uh, you know, they sayyour outsides match your insides
(02:10):
.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Evidently, I've got some work to do internally,
evidently, apparently, butnevertheless, here you are and
you're coming throughbeautifully on audio, sam.
So we're we're going to do thisjust fine today.
I am glad to be here.
How's everything going on yourend of the country?
You guys staying cool out there.
Are you having the same heatwave that we're having out this
(02:32):
side?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
No, it's 103 right now, and the humidity's I don't
know.
Can you go over 100 in humidity?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I'm sure if anywhere can, you guys in the South
probably can.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yeah, I mean I'm looking at three ospreys out the
window right now.
They just look like they're outthere struggling, just
suffering.
It's hot, it's hot, yeah.
But how are things on the WestCoast?
I'm going to see you next week.
We're going to be in SouthCarolina.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yes, we are think we're going to be out on the
water doing some fishing forCobia here before too long as
well, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
We are on the SS, no mo blow.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I love the name of that boat Recover out loud.
There you go, there you go.
Well, let me introduce today'sguest.
I think everybody's in for areal treat today and I'm going
to try to get your resumecorrect here, carrie.
I've known Carrie for a numberof years.
She and I are colleagues inthis industry.
She works for a treatmentcenter here Well, it's a
national treatment center butshe lives here in the Pacific
(03:33):
Northwest.
She works for Hazelden BettyFord.
But prior to that, I don't knowthe entirety of your resume, but
as we get close to the timewhere we're going to be watching
the Summer Olympics again,carrie was an Olympic swimmer
back in 1984.
She won I think it was, threegold medals.
Is that right, carrie?
That's right.
Yeah, she won three gold medalsin the 100 meter freestyle, the
(03:56):
four by 100 meter medley andthe freestyle, the freestyle
relay right, the 100 meterfreestyle relay.
Correct, yep?
And prior to that, you actuallylike.
I think, if I looked at yourWikipedia page correctly, you
actually started competinginternationally at about 15
years old, is that right?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
I did Yep.
That was really the first timethat I had started, had made
Team USA and started travelinginternationally.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So what got you into competitive swimming?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
You know, I think it was because my older brother did
.
You know, I just kind offollowed what he did and he was
swimming and so I startedswimming and you know,
eventually he stopped and Ireally, you know, I think we all
gravitate to where we feel somesuccess.
And you know, at a young age Ihad some success in the sport
and I enjoyed it, so I stuckwith it.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Even you know, long after he moved on to football
and other sports that he hadmore interest in and how old
were you when you started torealize like this actually may
be something that that takes yousomewhere?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
I was probably 13,.
I would guess maybe just a fewyears prior to the Olympics 13,.
I would guess maybe just a fewyears prior to the Olympics.
Um, you know, I knew that I hadalways wanted and dreamt of
being an Olympian.
I mean, I think many athletesdo, um, but I'm not sure I
really realized that, that thatpiece of it I didn't realize was
possible until probably theyear before 1983 is when I
(05:22):
really realized that there was areal shot that I could make
that team.
But when I was about 13, I wasstarting to win junior nationals
and finding my way onto thescene, so to speak, but still a
long ways from making theOlympic team.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, you competed.
If I understand the timelinecorrectly, you were what?
16, 17 years old when youcompeted in the Olympics.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Yeah, I was 16 years old, so what was that like as a
16-year-old?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I mean, I remember back being 16 years old, living
in this little farm town, being,I think, a sophomore in high
school, not knowing which endwas up and I was afraid to talk
to girls at that point.
And here you are, getting on aninternational stage, getting
ready to jump in a pool and wina gold medal.
(06:11):
Like there's a very starkdifference between us at 16
years old.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
What was that like for you, as a 16 year old, to
step onto that stage?
You know, I think that it wasum.
I'm not sure.
At 16 I really fully understoodthe gravity of what I was doing
.
I just knew that everything Ihad always dreamt of was coming
true in that moment.
I'm not sure I understood howthat 56 seconds, that 55 seconds
was going to shape the entireentirety of the rest of my life.
(06:37):
I'm not sure I understood that.
That 55 seconds that I wouldspend probably 30 years chasing
something that made me feel likethat 55 seconds, um, that I
would spend probably 30 yearschasing something that made me
feel like that 55 seconds did Um.
But I will tell you, I had a lotof fun.
I had a lot of fun in LA.
Um, it was the first time I hadbeen on the today show and I
(06:58):
was in a limousine, and you knowthese are experiences, as you
know that at 16, are incredibly,incredibly exciting and I'm
kind of thankful I didn't reallyrealize the gravity of it
because I'm not sure I was ableI would have been able to stay
kind of in the moment as much asI was.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Well, even on a political scale, the world
looked very, very different backthen.
Even on a political scale, theworld looked very, very
different back then.
Like you were competing againstwhat at that point was East
German swimmers Correct.
The Soviet Union had boycottedthe 1984 Olympics, correct?
So among the athletes that youwere training with and competing
(07:40):
with, was there any of thatthat was brought into the
competition?
Were there friction betweencountries?
Was there anything that reallykind of impacted you as an
athlete as you looked atathletes from other countries
and what was going onpolitically with our countries?
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Yeah, sure, I mean the 84 team was heavily impacted
by politics because so many ofthe kids that had made the 1980
team that we boycotted stuckaround for 84.
So you know, back then we hadwhat was considered an older
Olympic team because we had alot of collegiate postgraduates
that were still swimming.
(08:20):
You know, back then there wasno money to be made in the sport
.
So you know, if you swamthrough college, which most of
us did because we weren't outmaking enough money to pay for
our call, you know to get to payfor what a full ride looked
like for us.
But you know, so when you, whenyou graduated from college, you
had to go get a job, you know,and now these kids can swim.
(08:41):
I mean, we've got people on theOlympic team that are in their
thirties and they're parents andthey have families.
So, um, politics really playeda big part in what, how it
shaped the 84 team.
Um and sure, the first time Isaw the East German women was
like overwhelming.
I mean they were, um, very muchappeared like men, deep voices,
(09:07):
you know, larger women, youknow, and I was five, six and
130 pounds.
I was not aware or saw or everwas offered or around any kind
of performance enhancing drugsat all.
It was not ever a part ofconversations I had.
(09:38):
It was never part of anybody'slives that I knew that were
competing on an elite level.
I'm sure they existed, but itwas certainly far from the world
I lived in.
I came from a small town inNorthern California and a very
small little swim club where Ibecame a pretty big fish in a
(09:59):
small pond and I was really oneof the only one of two people
that even made it to Olympictrials from that team.
So I lived a pretty shelteredlife.
You know I wasn't exposed to alot of the things that you know,
like traveling to South Americaand seeing the way other
countries lived and the extremepoverty, and you know things
(10:24):
like that.
So you know I got a prettyearly education which I
appreciated um of the world.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
So after the Olympics , you you did go on to college.
You went to university of Texas, right?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Hook them horns, sam and I both have ties to Austin,
so we're, we're, we're glad thatwe've got another Austin night
here with us.
Um, you, you talked about kindof chasing, that feeling of
those 55 seconds.
What changed for you after theOlympics and what?
What was it that you felt likeyou were chasing and how did you
find that?
Speaker 4 (11:02):
You know, um, I think that when, when, as elite
athletes, you know, we functionon a really, really high level
of serotonin and these kind ofepic highs, right, and that's
not just when you're racing andwinning and competing, but it's
what we feel every day whenwe're training for five and six
(11:25):
hours a day, be it, you know,whether it be in the pool or out
of the pool.
You know, when I, when I wonthe Olympics, I remember
standing on that platformthinking, you know, please don't
forget the words to thenational anthem on, you know,
global television.
And the other feeling Iremember having was I had no
(11:49):
idea who I was.
In a way, I felt almost like animposter, very insecure.
I felt very out of place, whichis so interesting as we get
more wisdom and hindsight aslife moves on.
(12:10):
So I think what I looked forwas not only the feeling of what
it felt like to touch that walland see the number one by my
name and everything that wentalong with that, but I think I
looked for that Um, I am enough.
I am um a champion.
(12:31):
I am um, I'm validated.
People think I'm good atsomething.
Um, I sought a lot ofvalidation and a lot of my own
self-worth and self-esteemthrough my sport, and so I think
(12:52):
that I was always chasing thatand to a certain extent I felt
it in college.
But then when I went, olympictrials were in Austin in 1988, I
was still ranked number one inthe world at that time.
There was no reason for me notto make that Olympic team.
And you know, I went to Olympictrials and I basically fell
(13:12):
apart mentally and I was firstalternate.
And so when they assembled theOlympic team on the side of that
pool deck on the last night andI was in the stands in Austin
watching my friends, myboyfriend, everyone stand up
along that side of the wall onthe side of the pool and know
(13:33):
that I wasn't going.
Um, was that?
Was life altering?
Um, and that's really the firsttime that I remember taking a
drink for the sole purpose ofnot feeling so, had you already
started drinking alcoholicallyat that point?
(13:54):
No, I had not, you know I.
I, of course, as I think manyof us that find ourselves in
recovery do look back and thinkand wonder if I drank
differently back then.
And you know it's a little hardto navigate because as elite
athletes, I think we always hadthis mentality that we trained
hard and we played hard, and soI don't remember my drinking
(14:17):
standing out more than most ofthe other people that I spent
most of my life with.
But I guess it doesn't reallymatter, I guess when we cross
that proverbial line, but Idefinitely don't think that I
drank alcoholically actuallyuntil much later in my life,
(14:38):
which is pretty common for women, pretty common for women.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
So at what point you know, after the 88 trials, what,
what happened.
You know when you, when you'researching for that identity and
the, the source of your identity, isn't readily accessible for
you, or at least not asaccessible as it has been.
What did you do at that point?
How did you try to find that,that place where we all want to
(15:03):
fit in in our lives?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, you know, I, I grasped, I grabbed, grasped that
many things, um, and ultimatelyI spent 30 years looking for it
.
I thought, you know, gettingmarried would make me feel that.
I thought having my beautifulchildren would make me feel that
same feeling, and I rememberfeeling so much guilt and shame
(15:28):
that it didn't.
And then I found myselfreaching for the bottle and
somehow that filled this holethat somehow existed in my soul
and made me feel, um, worthy andvalidated and pretty and social
(15:55):
, um, and it made me feel, um,funny and um, all these things
that I didn't feel about myself,and it and it worked for a
while.
It worked for a while, and then, you know, and then it stopped
working, right, and then I gotto the crossroads that many of
(16:16):
us find ourselves in, and I wasthere more than once, for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
You mean that you attempted recovery more than
once?
Speaker 4 (16:24):
You mean that you attempted recovery more than
once?
Yeah, my first attempt atrecovery was in 2010.
I had been on the phone thenight prior with a girlfriend of
mine, my now ex-husband.
(16:44):
The father of my kids had movedout of the home and it was
based on my drinking Um and Iwas actively suicidal that night
.
So they, uh she did a welfarecheck on me and the police spoke
to my kids, scared the hell outof them.
They were quite young and Ientered treatment actually the
next day for the first time, andthat was in um May of 2010.
And then I proceeded to go tofour residential treatment
(17:11):
programs four times in atwo-year period of time, so I
spent a significant amount ofdays in treatment.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
So I think a lot of the families that would be
listening to this can relate tothe fact that either them or
their loved one has had multipleattempts at recovery and has
gone to multiple treatmentprograms.
In your experience, what was it?
Was it the mentality that youkind of went in with Like, were
(17:41):
you not fully committed?
Did you not understand what thereal problem was?
Why don't you think the firsttime worked, or the second time,
or the fourth time?
Or do you feel like yoursuccess is just a culmination of
all four times?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting to look back on that
time because I think that Ithink I was fully admit I had
full acceptance in 2010 when Ientered treatment the first time
that I was an alcoholic.
What I don't think I understoodwas the work that it was going
to entail for me to findrecovery and to find sustainable
(18:19):
recovery, and those two thingsare very different.
And I think that when I went totreatment the first time, I
thought, if I got, you know, a'son all my projects that the
counselors gave me and I was agood little girl and I only told
them what I thought they wantedto hear rather than really
(18:40):
telling them my truth, that Icould kind of check that box.
Thank you very much.
And now I have a life to getback to, not really
understanding what it would takepost-treatment and um a you
know if, if 12 steps was goingto be part of my life and you
know all these things.
So for me, I think that, um,the learning process, you know,
(19:06):
for me, what I learned overthose two years was that
everything that had contributedto me being the best in the
world in my sport were the verythings that were killing me in
my alcoholism, the selfmotivation that you know.
Don't ask for help.
(19:26):
If you just work harder, youcan figure out this problem you
seem to have with not being ableto stop drinking.
Um, and obviously, what we knowtoday is none of those are true
, right and so, um, when I wentto treatment the last time in
(19:47):
2012,.
Um, my sobriety date isFebruary 1st of 2012.
I made a decision about a weekbefore I decided I would try
treatment one more time, that Iwould detox alone at home and if
I survived which I reallydidn't want to survive, but if I
, if I wanted to, if I survived,I made the promise to myself,
(20:12):
or my higher power, whatever youbelieve in that I would try one
more time to save my life.
And so I started a very scaryfive days of DTs and voices and
TVs that weren't on violentlyill, um, they're pretty sure I
had a seizure and you know I Ipulled out the other side and,
(20:38):
um, and I decided that I wasgoing to do what I committed to
do and I was going to go try onemore time.
And I went down to Californiaand I checked into the Betty
Ford center on February 1st and,um, and really, I never looked
back.
You know, I spent 90 days thereand it was the greatest gift my
father ever gave me.
(20:59):
You know, at his funeral I saidyou know, my dad gave me life
and he also saved my life and,um, I needed every minute of
that 90 days.
As a matter of fact, when Ifinished, I asked if I could
start over, um, and I got honestfor the first time.
I told all of my truth, to thepoint where people would be in
(21:21):
group and I'd say something andthey'd be like, oh my God, like
I can't believe.
You just said that outside, andI mean out loud.
And you know, I had to.
I had to acknowledge that I was.
I was not in treatment to makefriends, um, I was not in
treatment to sign somebody's bigbook.
I was not in treatment to signsomebody's big book.
I was not in treatment to umwaste time.
(21:42):
Um, I was either going to liveor die.
And, uh, and I made the choiceto do whatever I could to live.
And so far, you know, 12 and ahalf years later, I'm still.
I'm still living and I'm livinga pretty damn good life and a
half years later, I'm still.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I'm still living, and I'm living a pretty damn good
life.
So what changed then?
Like as you're thinking ofgoing through this five or six
day horrific detox where you'rehaving hallucinations and
seizures and hoping that you'lldie, to all of a sudden, on the
other end of these 90 days, justfighting tooth and nail and
being able to do whatever it'sgoing to take to live what was
that shift?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I think that when I survived detox, that I was
willing to consider that therewas a purpose for me, that there
was a purpose for so broken andempty and hopeless and gutted.
(22:41):
I had to believe that there wasa purpose and it was okay that
in that moment I didn't knowwhat that purpose was, that and,
and you know, back then I couldhave thought, well, maybe it's
to be a mom to my girls, or youknow.
And another thing that I reallyrealized was that this thing,
(23:02):
this, this thing addiction, youknow, substance use disorder is
so much stronger than love.
You know we, you hear so muchchatter and judgment and stigma
against those of us thatstruggle with the sickness and
um and honestly I think womenhave it worse Um, and then you
(23:24):
add being a mom on top of that,and I think that we suffer more
stigma and judgment and ridiculethan our male counterparts.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I don't disagree with that at all, but I am curious
to like what?
What is your, what is yourthought behind that?
Why do you think women get itworse than men?
Because I think you're right.
I'm just curious to know what.
What, what drives that thoughtfor you?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Yeah, I think it's because, um, you know,
historically women are thecenter of a home, for example,
um, you know, the house revolvestypically around the women.
If you have children, right,we're the ones who plan the
social life, we plan the meals,we're planning you know what I'm
saying?
Like, we kind of are thequarterback of the house, and so
(24:10):
I think the expectation is that, you know, we do it all.
We, many of us, work, we raisekids, we do it all.
We, many of us, work, we raisekids, we're managing a household
.
You know, um, and, and I thinkthat you know, you hear things
like um, you know, when you talkabout women, alcoholics, do you
hear derogatory statementsabout being loose, or um, or
(24:36):
horrible mothers or what aterrible person.
But for men, you hear thingslike oh, he just can't handle
his alcohol.
Oh, there goes, johnny, again,he snuck out of the bar and
drove home when we all told himhe couldn't, but nobody would
approach him and say but nobodywould approach him and say what
(24:58):
a terrible father you are fordriving under the influence of
alcohol.
So I just think that there is adifferent stigma for women.
But here's the deal.
Like I was told all thosethings.
You're a horrible mother.
You're a horrible person.
As a matter of fact, I was toldbefore I left for treatment the
(25:18):
last time just disappear, likeif you just disappear and not
come back, the kid, your kidswill be better off.
Someone told you that.
Of course, I was told all this,and the reality is I believed
every word of it.
(25:38):
And the reality is I believedevery word of it, I believed
every word of it that I was aworthless, horrible mom, human,
all of the above.
And that whole Olympic championat 16 to low bottom alcoholic
in 2012, those don't evenconnect anymore.
(26:02):
Right Like there.
There is no feeling within methat that's even the same person
, like at all.
I couldn't have cared lessabout the Olympics.
I just didn't.
I, my choice was, what I had tocare about was if I was going
to choose to live or die, and so, um, and yeah, I mean, I was
(26:23):
told all those things.
As a matter of fact, when I cameback from treatment after 90
days, you know I, I was terrible, terribly afraid, because I
knew I'd have to come home andface the wreckage of my past.
I had to come home and face thepeople that I had hurt, most
importantly, my family, mychildren, my father.
And at 96 days sober, I walkedinto a courtroom here in Oregon
(26:48):
and I had my legal rights as amom taken away.
And the reason I had my legalrights taken away is because my
husband's attorney felt that hewould be best as a single parent
, as a sole legal parent for thegirls.
And what the judge said to methat morning as he took my legal
(27:11):
rights away, was all you haveto do is stay sober for two
years and all your rights willbe do is stay sober for two
years and all your rights willbe reinstated.
And I said to him please don'tsay things like that to people
like me, because two days, twoweeks, two months is a lifetime
(27:36):
and two years feels like forever.
And you know, I left thatcourtroom and I don't know.
You know, sometimes I wonder whyI'm one of the lucky ones, you
know, and why I'm, why I'mmaking it right now, because I
certainly that that was, thatwas the most humiliating and
devastating, gut-wrenching thingthat I have ever experienced.
(27:58):
Um, but you know, I had.
I had a lot of women and a lotof friends that taped my ass
back on when it was falling offand it fell off a lot and um,
but I'll be dang if we didn'tmake it through those two years.
And, and you know, the girlsand I did it together.
You know we scratched andclawed our way.
You know we scratched andclawed our way to this life and
(28:23):
we earned it.
And, um, you know they have astory too.
This isn't just my story and mystory isn't their story.
And um, you know they're adultsnow and, um, I would argue we
have a better relationship todaythan I ever would have dreamt
possible.
Um, and you know it's funny,like my oldest daughter, when
she was looking at collegesseveral years ago, we were down
(28:45):
in San Luis Obispo and we weresitting outside of a of like a
bar restaurant on the beach, andyou know, of course, it felt
like everyone was drinkingexcept me, and she must've
picked up on it.
And she said, mom, do you stillwish that you could drink?
And I said, of course I stillwish I could drink.
You know, I still wish I would,I still wish I could be a
(29:07):
normal drinker, but I but thatdoesn't mean I'm going to drink
again.
What that means is that I'mbeing honest with myself and it
doesn't mean I'm sitting on myhands and craving a drink, but
what it means is that I do wishthat I was still a normal
drinker, but I have fullacceptance that I'm not.
(29:31):
And so, um, you know, sometimeswe hear things from our kids.
She said but mom, if youweren't an alcoholic, there's
not one thing in your life thatwould exist the way it does
today If you hadn't been throughwhat she went, what you went
through, and she was 100% rightNothing, my career, my
relationships, my ability toshow up for others, um, my
(29:55):
passion and purpose finallyintersecting.
At 50 years old, you know, shewas.
Sometimes it's out of the mouthof our own babes that we get to
learn Right?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Absolutely, sam.
I felt like I've kind ofdominated the conversation here
on our side.
Is there anything you wanted totalk about or ask?
Well, uh well, I stepped backand quit being selfish.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
No, I was just sitting back listening to the
whole thing she was.
What an amazing story is great.
And you know, I feel for youand feel with you and was one of
the ones that stood beforejudge as well and lost his
rights to his kids.
Well, I didn't lose them.
I gave them away.
Right, I didn't lose it.
My actions gave it away.
And you know, I come back in2012 and I'm a single full-time
(30:39):
dad of two boys, you know, andwe didn't want to be that way.
You know, we didn't every time.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
I'd promise it was never on my bucket list.
I know that.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I mean, and it was a road of healing for sure for us.
I mean it's there was a levelof distrust them towards me for
a number of years afterwards.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Of course.
I mean we teach people how totreat us Right and when we lie,
sneak, steal, cheat, hide, youknow, unfortunately, people are
going to treat us like liars,sneaks.
People are going to treat uslike liars, sneaks.
You know, thieves and and andbad people Right.
And so what I love aboutrecovery is we get the.
(31:25):
We get the opportunity toretreat, reteach people how to
treat us Some will and somewon't and, um, you know, the
train pulls out of the stationand neither of those people are
going to be on it, um, orthey're not.
And I had a lot of people stillon the platform when my train
pulls out of the station andneither those people are going
to be on it or they're not.
And I had a lot of people stillon the platform when my train
pulled out.
And it's OK.
You know, it really is OK.
(31:45):
And you know I remember when,after treatment, it was a few
years and it maybe was about ayear, and I remember my kids
started kind of asking me somereally pointed questions, like
about the night that I had awelfare check done on me and
what happened.
(32:06):
And you know, of course, as thealcoholic, I instantly feel the
stab of shame and guilt, right,and what my therapist told me
was no, no, no, no.
When they start asking youquestions, they know you're safe
(32:29):
.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
That is a sign of growth.
And I was like, ah, like, whata great way to frame that, yeah
Right.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
And sometimes we're so close to it because I spent
the first two years of myrecovery unable to look at
myself in the mirror because ofshame.
I still was carrying this deeprooted shame and guilt for who
and what I had become as amatter of fact.
(32:54):
I remember showing up at like Icould go to my kids' sporting
events and I remember sittingthere wishing so desperately
sober to be invisible.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
I understand that.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
And yeah, except for them, if only the girls could
see me.
But I could just be invisibleto everybody else.
And I'm talking, you know,brush your teeth in the shower,
not looking in the mirror, right.
And then you know, it took mefour years into my recovery to
kind of, you know, use myplatforms, my social media
(33:30):
platforms, et cetera, and reallykind of start using my voice.
And I think the first post I puton Facebook was of a picture of
my Olympic gold medal next tomy four year um Alcoholics
Anonymous coin.
And I think what I wrote wassomething along the lines of the
(33:50):
large the large metalrepresents what I did and the
small metal represents who I am.
I did and the small metalrepresents who I am.
And then at that, at that point, I think the next phase, the
true joy, the, the freedom ofrecovery, really started to
(34:15):
settle in for me, really startedto settle in for me.
I was so, and I still am tothis day, so proud to be a woman
in recovery, far more proud ofthat than any Olympic gold
medals, anything.
As a matter of fact, I believethat the Olympics happened for
me 40 years ago strictly toserve me today, to have a
(34:40):
platform to talk about stigma,shame, guilt and recovery, and
hope that one person can hearthat message and say I can get
help too.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Well, as you talk about that, it's very
interesting to me that you knowyou got this gold medal very
young, these gold medals withoutan identity, and that was kind
of who you were at the time asan Olympic champion.
You get the smaller gold medallater on in life, having already
started to develop an identity,and that identity carried you
(35:14):
into now what is not justworking for a treatment center,
but you've been in front ofpoliticians and helped to shape
policy and you know.
Talk a little bit about whatyour recovery not only has done
for you, but how you've beenable to impact the way people
see sobriety and from a policystandpoint, from a PR standpoint
(35:36):
, I know that you have had aplatform and I'd love to hear
some of the things that you feellike you're most proud of in
your recovery that you've beenable to contribute to.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Yeah, um, you know, when I was about four or five
years sober, I remember Ithought about working at
Hazelden Betty Ford becausealmost all of my treatment, um,
and my recovery existed withinthat system of care and, um,
(36:05):
yeah, and so I applied online tobe a tech, right, and you guys
know what a tech is, but maybeall the listeners don't.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
That's how I started out, yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
So I was 48 years old or something and I'd spent my
whole career in the sportsindustry and I had a very
successful, lovely career.
And I spent the last 15 yearsat Nike and one of their
subsidiaries, converse, and Ithought I had the world at my
fingertips, right.
I had a great career, greatmarriage, beautiful kids and I
(36:40):
was dying inside, like I wasjust dying.
So I find myself applying forthis job that I don't even know
what it paid maybe $18.
I don't even know, but I knew Iwanted to see if there was a
space for me in this field, ifthere was a space that I could
exist and help others.
And I knew one of the ways todo that was to be a tech and
(37:03):
really learn every aspect ofwhat goes on On the other side
of the desk in treatment.
I knew what it was like to be apatient, but I didn't know what
it was like to be on the otherside.
And I will tell you that year Ispent as a tech was probably
one of the most fun and amazingyears of work that I've had in
(37:23):
my career.
But I also learned where myniche was.
People would say you should goback to school and get your CADC
.
And I was like, listen, at 50years old, I don't really think
I'm going to go back to schooland reinvent the wheel, but I do
know that I have a sales andmarketing background that
expands many years.
(37:44):
And so I started working herein development.
So I help work with all of ourprofessional referents here in
Oregon and Matt, you're one ofthem and we're lucky to have you
as one of our trusted partners.
(38:07):
And then my role started toexpand because, you know, I
started doing some publicspeaking and I was starting to
share my story publicly andthings were hitting YouTube and
you know there was a little bitof traction that happened there.
So the organization he'sLumbetti Ford started utilizing
(38:28):
me in more of a national scope.
So now I really am more of a Imean, I still do some
development, but I'm also Ireally am also doing a lot of
brand ambassador work.
So I go to the Hill for to dosome advocacy work with our
advocacy team, which has beensuper eyeopening in terms of
(38:49):
what it's going to take for thiscountry to look at the, the
fentanyl crisis and and you knowbut let's be honest, alcohol is
still the number one killer outthere, so we can't forget the
problems that we're also stillhaving with alcohol.
So you know his little buddyFord was was the the
organization that really helpedmake um addiction treatment part
(39:12):
of parody and um people be ableto use their insurance to pay
for this.
You know so, um, and we stillhave a lot of work to do right.
And you know, sam and Matt, youknow this as well as I do, and
I think we're all out theretrying to um, trying to do the
work and trying to have animpact where we can and to
(39:34):
affect people's lives and toaffect um people's ability to
access care, to access treatment.
Um and um I just it's, it'sreally fulfilling work, you know
it's.
It's this is where my passionand my purpose is finally
intercepted, and um, and I have,and it's just for me, recovery
(39:59):
and and sustainable recovery hasreally been um total freedom.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Well, when you talk about parody and and and that it
just brought back so manymemories, I don't think a lot of
people realize that it wasn'tup until the Obama
administration, where they wereoverhauling the insurance and
the healthcare systems, thatpeople could actually get denied
coverage.
Even if they had a wonderful,robust insurance policy, they
could get denied coveragebecause it was a preexisting
condition or for any otherreasons or it wasn't treated the
(40:27):
same way as other medicalconditions.
And yeah, I do remember thosedays and I did not know that
Hazelden Betty Ford was kind ofon the forefront of that fight
for parity.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Yeah, yeah, and you know I didn't spend one day in
treatment on insurance.
So I was one of those peoplethat had great insurance but
they denied coverage fortreatment for a substance use
disorder.
And you know, I'm I'm fortunatethat I had my father had
resources to get me the helpthat I needed, um, and I am
(40:58):
grateful to this day.
He's been gone for six yearsnow and I I'm grateful to this
day for the gift of recoverythat that he truly um gave me by
by getting me in and out oftreatment four times.
But I didn't spend a day intreatment with insurance.
(41:18):
I mean I have.
I was so happy when I finallyspent I had finally surpassed
the number of days I had spentas a patient at Hazelden Betty
Ford, as an employee right, Imean, that was a big number.
And I remember getting my firstpaycheck and I was like, oh my
God, I'm finally not writingthem a check.
So a lot of these things peopledon't realize that exists today
(41:45):
has been done by people like you, matt and Sam and myself.
Invite people like you, mattand Sam and myself, and and many
, many people that have walkedbefore us, that have fought for
the, fought for this and foughtfor us to be able to use
insurance and to be able toaccess care.
And is it perfect?
Not by us, not by a long shot,um.
And do we have a long way to go?
Absolutely, but, man, theprogress we've made just since
(42:08):
I've been sober for 12 and ahalf years is pretty staggering,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yeah, it has been.
And as we wrap up here, carrie,if there are moms or women
listening, what would yourmessage be to them in particular
?
Because I mean, we can talkabout what it's like to be sober
, we can talk what it's like tobe sober as men, but what would
you say to the women listeningright now, whether it's moms who
(42:35):
are struggling themselves, orhusbands who have wives, or
parents who have daughters as awoman in recovery and as
somebody who represents a reallywonderful organization where
people get great help, whatwould you say to them and what
kind of help could they expectto get if they were to reach out
to Hazelden Betty Ford?
Speaker 4 (42:54):
Yeah, I think that you know, for women and moms, I
think that what we what I wouldsay is um is there is hope and
there's a lot of hope and helpand and what what we're told is
just um, it's just a lie, it'sall BS that we're told that
(43:16):
we're, we are not bad momstrying to get good.
We're sick and we need to getwell, and what I will tell you
is the strongest women I've thatI know, in my life today are
not the women that I knew thatwere winning Olympic gold medals
.
There are the women that I'vemet in recovery that are, that
are um, present and sober, momsthat, um, don't have to live
(43:41):
under shame and guilt anymoreand they don't have to live
hiding secrets and pretending tobe something that everyone
thought that we should be.
You know they get to live intheir truth and part of my truth
, you know, there's very fewthings I'll always be, and one
of those is a mom, One of thoseis an Olympian and the other one
(44:04):
of those things is an alcoholic, and I hope to be an alcoholic
and recovery the rest of my life.
But you know, always, foreverand never are um words that I
really don't use anymore because, um, we can change and we do
change and, um, our kids are,are better off because of it.
(44:24):
They are going to respect you,they're going to love you and
they're going to be proud of you.
You know, when my kids startedposting about my sobriety on
their Instagram, I knew life hadchanged in a real positive
direction, because they weren'tashamed of it and they didn't
hide it, and because I made themknow that it was okay to talk
(44:45):
about it and to share it.
Because what our kids don'trealize is that one in five kids
in their classrooms are sittingthere with a parent struggling
with substance use disorder.
They're not alone, but theyfeel alone.
So, you know, I just say thelie is dead.
The lie is dead and we dorecover.
There is a lot of hope andthere's a lot of help, and
(45:07):
certainly Hazelden Betty Fordhas some amazing programs, as
well as many other treatmentcenters in this country have
amazing programs and there'sgender specific treatment if you
need it.
And so the biggest thing Iwould say is, no matter who you
call, make the call.
Pick up that 10,000 pound phoneand make the call and ask for
(45:31):
help, because it's the bravest,most courageous thing you'll
ever do in your life.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
And for people who do want to look for help within
the Hazelden Betty Ford program,what's the best way for them to
go about doing that?
Speaker 4 (45:42):
Yeah, they can look us up on our website
hazeldenbettyfordorg.
There's tons of resources inthere, not just on our sites and
programs, but even just generalinformation about addiction and
you know the brain and allthese things.
There's lots of resources onthat website.
And then if there's questionsabout you know admissions or
(46:03):
insurance or any of those things, they can always reach out on
our 855 number, which is855-348-7018.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Well, Carrie Bates, thank you for being here today.
We appreciate you spending sometime and I know you're a busy
woman, but thanks for giving ussome time to be with us and let
us ask you some questions andget to know you a little bit
better today.
Speaker 4 (46:24):
Yeah, I really appreciate you guys having me.
Thank you so much and Sam,hopefully someday we'll get to
meet.
You know in person.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Absolutely.
If not just you know, can't dothat At least video to video
instead of voice to video.
Exactly, it was great, I wouldlove it yeah.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
Oh, thank you, Thank you so much.
And, matt, you know, you knowyou're our, you're a trusted
partner of ours and weappreciate everything that
you're out there doing from anintervention standpoint with um,
with not just people that wework with but all the patients
that you're out there trying toget some help.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
So thank you guys, yep.
Thanks, carrie, thank you Byenow, bye-bye.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Thanks again for listening to the party records.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atpartywreckerscom and remember
(47:26):
don't enable addiction ever.
On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Let's talk again soon.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.