May 28, 2025 • 29 mins
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Ever wondered why addiction interventions sometimes fall apart, even when everyone wants the same outcome? In this powerful episode, addiction interventionist Matt Brown tackles the vital role of family unity when helping someone struggling with substance use.
Drawing from both professional expertise and personal recovery experience, Matt reveals how people battling addiction become masterful at detecting family division. "We as addicted individuals are going to be looking around the room looking for the weak link," he explains. "We want to know where's the chink in the armor? Who is the most likely person in this group that I could sway to see things my way?"
This episode dives deep into why families struggle to maintain a unified approach despite shared goals. Matt explores how differing beliefs about addiction (choice versus disease), misunderstandings about trauma, and overemphasis on mental health diagnoses can create fatal cracks in family cohesion. He offers practical guidance on educating family members, designating leadership during difficult conversations, and preventing emotional escalation that derails intervention efforts.
Perhaps most valuable is Matt's compassionate understanding of family dynamics. He acknowledges that unity doesn't require everyone to like each other—many successful interventions happen with blended families where relationships are strained. What matters is agreement on the approach and commitment to the goal of getting help. Through compelling storytelling and actionable advice, Matt provides a roadmap for families to set aside differences and present the united front their loved one desperately needs to begin recovery.
Whether you're currently struggling with a loved one's addiction or supporting someone who is, this episode offers invaluable insights that could make the difference between a successful intervention and a missed opportunity. Subscribe to Party Wreckers for more wisdom from Matt Brown, and visit partywreckers.com to connect directly with resources that can help your family find its way through addiction.
Join us Every Sunday at 8:00 PM PST and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday Night at 8:00 PM EST/5:00PST for a FREE family support group. Register at the following link to get the zoom information sent to you: Family Support Meeting
About our sponsor(s):
Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist. While a professional intervention can be a powerful experience for change, not every family needs a professionally led intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professional intervention, we can help. Hour sessions are $150.
Therapy is a very important way to take care of your mental health. This can happen from the comfort of your own home or office. If you need therapy and want to get a discount on your first month of services please try Better Help.
If you want to know more about the host's private practice please visit:
Matt Brown: Freedom Interventions
Follow the host on TikTok
Matt: @mattbrowninterventionist
If you have a question that we can answer on the show, please email us at matt@partywreckers.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
seasoned addictioninterventionist, Matt Brown.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism.
(00:22):
Perhaps they are reluctant toget the help that they need.
We are here to educate andentertain you while removing the
fear from the conversation.
Stick with us and we will getyou through it.
Welcome the original partywrecker, Matt Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Welcome to another episode of the Party Wreckers
podcast.
My name is Matt Brown.
I am your host.
I am an addictioninterventionist and also a man
in long-term recovery.
I want to talk today about theimportance of unity in the
family system.
This is something that's comeup with a couple of the cases
(01:15):
that I have been working on overthe last couple of weeks, and
some things have fallen apartwith a couple of the families
just because they can't find away to work cohesively together,
and there's a number of reasonsthat that happens, and it's not
because people don't want thesame thing.
(01:35):
I think everybody involved haswanted for their loved one to be
able to get sober and staysober, but everybody's got a
different opinion on what thereal problem is, how to solve
the problem, and it has reallyled to some contention and some
dissolution in just the way thateverybody has been willing to
(01:58):
work together, and so I guesswhat I wanted to start out by
saying is let's talk just for aminute about why it's important.
As someone who has been on thereceiving end of an intervention
and certainly done many, many,many interventions over the last
(02:18):
20 years, the need for unity isso critical because we, as
addicted individuals are goingto be looking around the room
looking for the weakling.
We want to know where's thechink in the armor?
Who is the most likely personin this group that I could sway
(02:41):
to see things my way?
Who's not completely committedto really having me get the see
things my way?
Who's not completely committedto really having me get the help
that I need?
Who's not in agreement with theway we're going about doing
this?
And so, as I have learned toread the room over the years as
somebody who relies on everyperson in that room to enable me
and to enable my addiction, Ilearn how to read the room.
(03:05):
I learn what you're thinkingbefore you even say it out loud.
And so I'm looking in the room,I'm surveying everybody's
expression, I'm surveying theirbody language to see, okay, who
isn't completely bought in onthis.
And I may not come right outand go full press, full court
(03:25):
press on that individual, butI'm going to find a way to sway
them to see things my way or toat least back me up on some of
the points that I'm going tomake it down to do the
(03:47):
intervention.
I'm going to want to talk withthe family members to really
make sure, okay.
Does everybody here feel likethe path that we're on is the
right path, that the course ofaction we're about to embark on
is the right course of action?
Does everybody feel like thisindividual needs the kind of
help that we're about to offerthem?
Does everybody see the problembeing what it really is?
Is there anybody that sees thisdifferently or sees a different
(04:09):
way to go about this?
Because unless everybody that'sin that room is in complete
agreement, you don't have tolike each other.
I've done plenty ofinterventions where there's a
stepmom and a stepdad and youknow a divorced family where
they'd rather, as my friend SamDavis would say, they'd rather
(04:31):
unplug each other's life supportto charge their iPhones rather
than be in that room and do theintervention.
But they love the person thatthey're there to talk to and to
talk about, and so it's soimportant that we find a way to
get you and to put differencesaside, and that's not easy to do
(04:56):
.
That's not easy to do Becauseevery family system carries with
it, sometimes a little,sometimes a lot of dysfunction.
There's baggage, there's hurtfeelings, there's resentments,
there's bitterness.
Oftentimes there's jealousy,there's resentment, and all of
(05:21):
those things come to bear.
And so if you're a familymember and you're sitting there
trying to figure out, okay, howdo I get this group together on
this?
You're not alone.
This is something that so manyfamilies struggle with, and so
when I'm talking to a family,usually I'm getting a call from
(05:42):
a spouse or a parent saying, hey, I think we need to do an
intervention on my loved one.
How can we do this?
My first question is okay, whoelse in your family or in this
support system close loved ones,family, friends who else is as
concerned about this person asyou are, whether or not the
relationships between you andthem are good, whether or not
(06:03):
the relationships between theperson that we're going to be
intervening on in them are good?
Who is as concerned as you are?
And we'll start to put the listtogether.
Okay, is everybody completelyunited, whether or not you've
(06:24):
talked to them about this or not, in terms of the actual
intervention or how we might beapproaching this, do you feel
like everybody sees this problemfor what it is?
Well, not really.
You know grandpa keeps justtelling him that, hey, if you
just get a job and quit beinglazy, then you know we probably
wouldn't have to be goingthrough this.
And you know I say grandpabecause typically it's that
older generation where it's like, well, if you just pull
(06:45):
yourself up by your bootstrapsand get busy, then you know,
quit being such a lazy slob.
They may not say it that way,but you know, if you just get
busy and get active and quitlaying around doing nothing,
then you know you'll be allright.
Yeah, and what I'll typicallysay is like, look, if being busy
were the answer to this, Iwouldn't be running an
(07:06):
intervention company.
I'd be running an employmentagency, like, hey, let's get
this guy a job and get himworking.
But most of us, by the time weneed an intervention or we need
some sort of a residentialtreatment experience, we're not
employable for the most part.
That's not to say that some ofus haven't managed to hang on to
jobs.
That doesn't mean that some ofus aren't the sole breadwinners
(07:28):
in our families.
But generally speaking, we getto this point where there are
certain things that are startingto be in jeopardy and we want
to throw around this term ofwell, he's a functional
alcoholic, he has a job, he'sbringing home a paycheck, he's
(07:48):
supporting the family or she,and you know we don't want to
put that in jeopardy, be to thepoint where, where mine was,
where I had lost every job thatI'd ever had, I I, you know
(08:11):
nobody was was banging my doordown to try to hire me to come
work for them.
Uh, the people that I was ableto get work for, especially
there, at the end they, theyreally did it just more out of
pity.
I think, um, hey, let's see ifwe can't.
You know, kind of the samething.
Let's see if we can't get thisguy a job and get him back on
his feet and see if that thatfixes the problem.
Um, but these were people thatknew me, people that were, you
know, I'd been friends with andand who were just really trying
to do me a favor.
Um, as far as the unity piecegoes, it's really important that
(08:37):
the family get educated.
Most of the time, a lack ofunity is happening because
people don't really know what itis.
Sometimes it's because theythink addiction is a choice
versus a disease.
Why can't they just make betterchoices?
Why can't they just stop doingthis?
(08:58):
There were so many people in mylife that asked that question.
Why can't he just stop?
Why does he keep doing this?
Can't he see that he's burninghis life to the ground.
Well, of course I could see itMaybe not as clearly as
everybody else, but I could seeit.
But this thing that I wasdriving didn't have any brakes.
(09:19):
There was no stopping it.
It was like one of those FredFlintstone cars where I just had
to stick my feet on the groundand try to slow things down and
it wasn't working, you know.
And so, to really help educatethe family of, let's really
learn what it is we're dealingwith.
Let's talk about the fact thatit's not just that this person
(09:41):
needs to stop drinking or stopusing that.
This person is dealing with areal crisis that has person
needs to stop drinking or stopusing that.
This person is dealing with areal crisis that has nothing to
do with drugs or alcohol.
Yes, is that making it worse?
Of course it is, but that's notthe root of the problem.
The root of the problem is thisperson has an untreated health
condition.
This person has untreatedtrauma.
This person has abuse andneglect and abandonment and
(10:02):
rejection that they haven'tdealt with.
This person has abuse andneglect and abandonment and
rejection that they haven'tdealt with.
This person has a real issuearound grief and loss.
There's been things that havehappened, that just the bleeding
is still happening.
It may look differently than itdid when the original injury
happened, but the healing hasnot even come close to starting
(10:24):
yet.
The healing has not even comeclose to starting yet.
Gabor Mate has a really good wayof talking about trauma and the
way he puts it, and I'm tryingto remember which book that this
was from.
I think it was from one of hismore recent books.
But he talks about you know, iftwo people are in a car
accident, the accident is theevent.
(10:48):
The car accident is not thetrauma, because one person may
get up out of that car accidentand not have a scratch.
Another person may have very,very serious injuries.
So we tend to look at theaccident hey, you know what,
both cars got totaled and wewant to look at it and say, okay
(11:09):
, that's the trauma or that'snot traumatic, but it's the
injury that results from theevent.
That's the actual trauma.
You know, you may have peoplethat have gone through very
similar circumstances.
One came out of it fairlyunscathed on an emotional level.
Another came out of it withsome serious emotional injury
(11:31):
and some serious emotionaldamage, and that's how I want
you guys to really look attrauma.
It's not what happened, it'sthe injury that occurred as a
result of what happened, and alot of that has to do with how
strong is this personemotionally, what kind of tools
does this person have from anemotional standpoint, how
(11:53):
resilient are they?
And oftentimes the lack of someof those things can lead to
greater injury than if somebodyhas some of those things in
place already and so don't lookat oh well, this person was
molested, or this person wassexually abused, or this person
was violently beaten.
The injury may look differentfor each of those people.
(12:14):
The trauma is going to lookdifferent for each of those
people, and some people may comeaway from that and may not have
any underlying emotional traumaand may not have any underlying
emotional trauma.
But try to look at it throughthe lens of of injury versus
experience, if that makes sense,and so sometimes educating
(12:34):
families on okay, what?
What is trauma?
What is what is?
You know what's really left amark here that needs healing and
and what hasn't, because traumais one of those words that gets
thrown around these days that Ithink can get really
misinterpreted.
I think a lot of times,especially in this up and coming
generation.
Trauma is one of thosebuzzwords that gets thrown
(12:58):
around pretty flippantly.
In my experience, trauma issomething that can get assigned
to anything that's uncomfortable.
You know I'm being triggered.
My trauma is being triggeredbecause of the way you're
speaking or, you know, becauseof this experience that I'm
having right now, and whatoftentimes that is is that's
(13:20):
just a lack of resilience orthat's a lack of capacity to
handle heightened emotions.
It's not necessarily trauma,and so we really need to
sometimes get educated on whattrauma really is and what it's
not, more importantly, and notget sucked into conversations
(13:40):
where we're being led down theroad of.
You know, I have a real issuehere that nobody's going to
understand.
Well, I think everybodyunderstands what it's like to go
through very emotionallydifficult situations.
The details of that situationmay not be the same for each
person, but we all understandwhat it's like to just feel
completely underwater, to feelcompletely overwhelmed and
(14:02):
completely stuck and have thatfight, flight or freeze.
To feel completely overwhelmedand completely stuck and have
that fight, flight or freezereaction kick in.
That doesn't mean we're intrauma.
That doesn't mean we're havinga traumatic experience.
Sometimes it does, sometimes itdoes and I think that a
catalyst for somebody going downthe road of addiction can be
real, unresolved trauma, and itcan come from a variety of
(14:24):
different sources.
But until the family getsunited on that and either stops
diminishing the real issues orstops attributing some things to
or assigning problems to issuesthat may not necessarily be
real, that's a key piece.
The other thing that I think alot of times families struggle
(14:44):
with is this need to assigneverything to a mental health
condition.
Well, they've got ADHD, or youknow they've got bipolar
disorder, or you know they'vegot this diagnosis it's
depression, it's anxiety, andyou know, if we could just treat
that, then the addiction willgo away.
And I think that's ofteninaccurate as well.
(15:06):
Don't get me wrong.
I think that a huge contributorto ongoing addiction is
unresolved and untreated mentalhealth stuff.
I know that my life improvedwhen I got my clinical
depression treated and Icontinue to have it treated
today, and it's made my lifethat much better today and it's
made my life that much better.
Was it the catalyst for myaddiction?
(15:27):
I don't know.
Was it a problem for me inearly recovery because I wasn't
actively treating my depressionas I got sober Absolutely, and
my recovery, my sobriety, gotthat much richer and that much
more fulfilling when I startedto properly address my mental
health.
(15:48):
But I think that for familiesand I'm just going to say this
plainly and hope that I don'toffend too many of you I think a
lot of you wish that it were amental health issue versus an
addiction issue.
For one, I think that mentalhealth is a much easier
conversation to have because thestigma around mental health
(16:11):
isn't as significant in oursociety today as the stigma
around addiction.
Mental health is seen in a muchmore acceptable way today if
somebody's having some struggleswith mental health versus
somebody who's struggling inactive addiction, no-transcript
(16:53):
without realizing it, want thisto be a mental health issue
because it means that the systemdoesn't have to change as
significantly as it otherwisemight.
And so, as you're looking atthis and you're thinking, oh,
you know, what do we need to dohere, I want you to go into this
with open eyes and, as we'retalking about, you know,
(17:13):
creating some unity in yourfamily system before we ever
address your loved one, it'sreally important that you know
we're not going to go through anentire psychiatric or
psychological evaluation beforewe go and do the intervention.
I'm not qualified to do thatand, frankly, it doesn't need to
happen.
Before we get this person thehelp that they need, I need as
(17:35):
the interventionist, I need tohave a really good understanding
of what we're dealing with.
The times that I've gone intointerventions where there
actually has been physicalviolence and that's only
happened three times in the last20 years but each of those
times that it's happened it'sbecause I walked into a
situation where there was anunknown mental health issue that
(17:56):
the family just didn't know tocommunicate with me whether it
was schizoaffective disorder,schizophrenia, bipolar disorder.
There was something going onmentally with that person that I
wasn't aware of and thingsescalated to a point where,
luckily, nobody ever got gothurt.
But it got to a point wheresomeone was willing to get
(18:18):
physical with me or with someoneelse in the room because the
mental health issues I I most ofit happened long ago, early in
my career, where I, you know.
Luckily today I feel like I'min a much better place to
recognize those things and dealwith those things in the moment.
But early on in my career itwas one of those things where,
(18:39):
hey, if I know about it, I'lllearn about it and I'll do what
I need to do to be prepared forit.
But I got caught off guard acouple of times and things
escalated in a way that theydidn't need to it, in a way that
they didn't need to, and so Iguess the reason that I'm going
down that road is that I want tomake sure that, as a family, as
you're looking at, how do I geteverybody united?
(19:00):
It's really about, okay, whatdo I need to do to properly
educate the family system?
If you are going to use someonelike me as an interventionist
to come in and help you, whatkind of information is the
interventionist going to need?
And we'll ask you the rightquestions.
Don't worry about that part ofit.
It's not that you have to knowahead of time exactly what to
(19:22):
share.
If we're not getting theinformation that we need, we're
going to ask you the rightquestions.
But in terms of you know, ifthis is a situation where I'm
coaching a family on how to dotheir own intervention, uh, it's
going to be really importantthat everybody knows going into
this, okay, this is what we'renot going to say.
(19:42):
This is what we need to say,this is what we have to avoid.
We're not going to escalate,we're not going to try to push
each other's buttons and andwe're not going to take things
personally and so, as you lookat trying to organize this
experience for your family, thatunity piece is so important.
Because the minute things startto go sideways and the minute
(20:03):
that people start to getuncomfortable or feel like, you
know, I'm in territory herewhere I'm not really sure I know
how to handle this.
I'm in territory here where I'mnot really sure I know how to
handle this, the addiction getsso much stronger at that point
and your loved one doesn't evenrealize that this is happening.
But they begin to feel thatunity break and they begin to
feel like, oh, okay, I'm gettinga little bit more control here.
(20:26):
And it's not that they're doingthis maliciously, they're not
doing this because, oh, I'mgoing to exploit this
opportunity so that I can hurtpeople.
The addiction is trying tosurvive and we learn how to
manipulate, we learn how tocontrol, we learn how to get
(20:47):
people to enable us.
And ultimately, that's whatthis addiction is fighting for
is it's fighting to stay incontrol, not just of your loved
one, but of the entire dynamic.
Because if I can keep people inconfusion, if I can keep people
in ignorance, or if I can keeppeople in conflict, then the
addiction gets to stay incontrol, and so it's going to be
(21:09):
very important that everybodyunderstands exactly what is
happening and what's nothappening in terms of what
addiction is and what it's not,what mental health is and what
it's not, what trauma is andwhat it's not.
If there is a professional inthe room that you absolutely let
(21:31):
them take charge, do not doanything that the
interventionist doesn't ask youto do explicitly.
If the person in that room asksyou a question, if they make a
comment to you, look at theinterventionist before you open
your mouth.
That gives you the moment tostop.
If you're likely to have thatimmediate knee-jerk emotional
(21:53):
reaction where, hey, my button'sgetting pushed and this is how
I'm going to respond, and it'snot even a conscious decision
that you make, but it's just oneof those things like, oh, I'm
not going to let him talk to me.
Like that, things quicklyescalate to the point where
they're not controllable anymore.
So giving yourself that momentto just not say anything look at
the interventionist to see whatthey want you to do will
(22:16):
prevent you from having thatimmediate reaction and it'll
give the interventionist anopportunity to direct you on
what it is you either should sayor shouldn't say.
If you're doing this as a family, if you're doing your own
family intervention, it'sprobably a good idea that you
designate somebody in that groupthe person who really has the
(22:36):
most emotional intelligence, theperson who's least likely to
get their buttons pushed.
Not that you want somebodythat's completely disconnected
and not invested in the outcome,but somebody who can detach
from taking things personallyand who can really hold the
respect of not just youraddicted loved one but everybody
(22:58):
else in that room, so that ifthings do start to escalate,
they can say hey, I need you tostop talking.
Hey, can you step outside and,you know, gather yourself.
When you feel like you're readyto come back in, come on back
in and let's have a differentconversation, but for right now
I need you to stop.
If you don't have somebody inthe room that can really do that
(23:19):
, it's probably not going towork.
That is another critical pieceto creating that unity is
allowing some leadership in thatroom whether it's a
professional or whether it's afamily member to really be the
leader and to direct thatexperience towards the goal and
(23:40):
not lose sight of the goal.
It's not about having theconversation that the addiction
wants to have.
It's not about getting lost inthe weeds in terms of the facts
of well, you guys really don'tunderstand what's going on, or
no, this isn't really what'shappening.
You've misrepresented that.
It's about staying focused onwhat is the end goal here.
The end goal is to get thisperson some help.
(24:02):
What's this conversation that'sbeginning to happen has nothing
to do with whether or not we'regoing to get this person help
today.
We need to shift gears, we needto get back on track and so to
have somebody in the room that'sgoing to be able to do that and
keep the cohesive focus of thatgroup on the goal, not on the
(24:23):
details, because when you getinto the facts, when you get
into the details, all of thatcan get disputed.
When I say you get lost in theweeds, that's what I mean.
The addiction wants to createconfusion.
The addiction wants to createcontention and if I can get you
focused on nuances, if I can getyou focused on the minutiae of
stuff that really is justbackground noise in that moment
(24:45):
of how much, how often, who withwhat am I using you know all of
those things.
In that moment, those thingsdon't matter.
And the bigger goal, of course,is is this person getting
closer or further away fromgetting help?
And if they're getting closer,how do I keep moving towards
that goal?
If they're getting further away, how do I redirect the energy
(25:06):
of this conversation to get somecoaching from someone who can
really help you learn?
Okay, this is how thisconversation needs to go.
Previous conversations haven'tworked.
If they had, we wouldn't bewhere we're at right now.
(25:28):
That's something.
It's kind of like a step oneexperience for somebody in
active recovery.
What I've been doing hasn'tbeen working.
So let me learn from somebody,or let me have somebody come in
and sit in the living room withus who can help keep this thing
on track.
So you know, I won't blather ontoo much more about this, but I
really wanted to address thatbecause I think that, just given
(25:51):
what I'm experiencing in mypractice right now, that is
something that I think a lot offamilies struggle with and
historically I've seen thatpretty significantly.
It's not something that's goingto keep.
Like I said, I think mostfamilies all want the same thing
.
The lack of unity comes whenopinions get involved and
(26:15):
personalities get involved andthe baggage that people are
carrying for one another in thatroom can't get set aside long
enough to be able to focus onthe real reason for everybody
coming together in the firstplace.
And so what I would encourageyou to do if you're
contemplating a conversationlike this with your loved one
and you see that potentially,hey, we need this person to be a
(26:37):
part of this, but they're noton board right now, reach out.
I would love to have aconversation with you about how
to make that happen.
Whether we're just exchangingsome emails, you can reach me at
matt at partyrecordscom.
You can book a private sessionwith me at interventiononcallcom
.
There's a number of otherproviders on there.
(26:58):
It doesn't just have to be me.
There's some really goodproviders on there.
Oftentimes, I'm not the rightfit.
Sometimes you'll see somebodythat's going to be a better fit
for you, whether you need afemale interventionist or
whether you need somebody withjust a different personality
type than what I have.
I'm always happy to get peopleconnected with the right
resources if I'm not it.
(27:19):
So I say this at the end ofevery podcast.
But I, I, I really, really meanit.
I think far too many, too manyfamilies are trying to go this
on their own, and there are, sothere's.
There's so much help out thereto be had.
I would love it if some of youguys reached out to me and just
shot me an email and just saidhey, here's where we're at.
(27:41):
What can we do?
I'm not looking to make moneyoff of you.
If it's going to take time, yes, I'll charge you for my time,
but if it's just as simple asreplying to an email, guys, I
don't want you to worry about it.
I do this kind of work becauseI want to help people and I
(28:04):
don't want anyone to have to gothrough what I went through or
what I put my family through asthey were trying to get me help.
So thank you for being here,thank you for listening to this.
If there's anything I can do tobe of assistance to you, please
email me at matt atpartywreckerscom.
If you have a question thatyou'd like for me to answer at
(28:25):
some point here in the next Q&Athat we do.
Please email me your questions.
I'd love to address those anduntil then, I hope your loved
one gets sober and stays sober.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Thank you sober, Thank you.
Thanks again for listening tothe party records.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
(28:56):
A question we can answer in afuture episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
don't enable addiction ever.
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
seasoned addictioninterventionist, Matt Brown.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism.
(00:22):
Perhaps they are reluctant toget the help that they need.
We are here to educate andentertain you while removing the
fear from the conversation.
Stick with us and we will getyou through it.
Welcome the original partywrecker, Matt Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Welcome to another episode of the Party Wreckers
podcast.
My name is Matt Brown.
I am your host.
I am an addictioninterventionist and also a man
in long-term recovery.
I want to talk today about theimportance of unity in the
family system.
This is something that's comeup with a couple of the cases
(01:15):
that I have been working on overthe last couple of weeks, and
some things have fallen apartwith a couple of the families
just because they can't find away to work cohesively together,
and there's a number of reasonsthat that happens, and it's not
because people don't want thesame thing.
(01:35):
I think everybody involved haswanted for their loved one to be
able to get sober and staysober, but everybody's got a
different opinion on what thereal problem is, how to solve
the problem, and it has reallyled to some contention and some
dissolution in just the way thateverybody has been willing to
(01:58):
work together, and so I guesswhat I wanted to start out by
saying is let's talk just for aminute about why it's important.
As someone who has been on thereceiving end of an intervention
and certainly done many, many,many interventions over the last
(02:18):
20 years, the need for unity isso critical because we, as
addicted individuals are goingto be looking around the room
looking for the weakling.
We want to know where's thechink in the armor?
Who is the most likely personin this group that I could sway
(02:41):
to see things my way?
Who's not completely committedto really having me get the see
things my way?
Who's not completely committedto really having me get the help
that I need?
Who's not in agreement with theway we're going about doing
this?
And so, as I have learned toread the room over the years as
somebody who relies on everyperson in that room to enable me
and to enable my addiction, Ilearn how to read the room.
(03:05):
I learn what you're thinkingbefore you even say it out loud.
And so I'm looking in the room,I'm surveying everybody's
expression, I'm surveying theirbody language to see, okay, who
isn't completely bought in onthis.
And I may not come right outand go full press, full court
(03:25):
press on that individual, butI'm going to find a way to sway
them to see things my way or toat least back me up on some of
the points that I'm going tomake it down to do the
(03:47):
intervention.
I'm going to want to talk withthe family members to really
make sure, okay.
Does everybody here feel likethe path that we're on is the
right path, that the course ofaction we're about to embark on
is the right course of action?
Does everybody feel like thisindividual needs the kind of
help that we're about to offerthem?
Does everybody see the problembeing what it really is?
Is there anybody that sees thisdifferently or sees a different
(04:09):
way to go about this?
Because unless everybody that'sin that room is in complete
agreement, you don't have tolike each other.
I've done plenty ofinterventions where there's a
stepmom and a stepdad and youknow a divorced family where
they'd rather, as my friend SamDavis would say, they'd rather
(04:31):
unplug each other's life supportto charge their iPhones rather
than be in that room and do theintervention.
But they love the person thatthey're there to talk to and to
talk about, and so it's soimportant that we find a way to
get you and to put differencesaside, and that's not easy to do
(04:56):
.
That's not easy to do Becauseevery family system carries with
it, sometimes a little,sometimes a lot of dysfunction.
There's baggage, there's hurtfeelings, there's resentments,
there's bitterness.
Oftentimes there's jealousy,there's resentment, and all of
(05:21):
those things come to bear.
And so if you're a familymember and you're sitting there
trying to figure out, okay, howdo I get this group together on
this?
You're not alone.
This is something that so manyfamilies struggle with, and so
when I'm talking to a family,usually I'm getting a call from
(05:42):
a spouse or a parent saying, hey, I think we need to do an
intervention on my loved one.
How can we do this?
My first question is okay, whoelse in your family or in this
support system close loved ones,family, friends who else is as
concerned about this person asyou are, whether or not the
relationships between you andthem are good, whether or not
(06:03):
the relationships between theperson that we're going to be
intervening on in them are good?
Who is as concerned as you are?
And we'll start to put the listtogether.
Okay, is everybody completelyunited, whether or not you've
(06:24):
talked to them about this or not, in terms of the actual
intervention or how we might beapproaching this, do you feel
like everybody sees this problemfor what it is?
Well, not really.
You know grandpa keeps justtelling him that, hey, if you
just get a job and quit beinglazy, then you know we probably
wouldn't have to be goingthrough this.
And you know I say grandpabecause typically it's that
older generation where it's like, well, if you just pull
(06:45):
yourself up by your bootstrapsand get busy, then you know,
quit being such a lazy slob.
They may not say it that way,but you know, if you just get
busy and get active and quitlaying around doing nothing,
then you know you'll be allright.
Yeah, and what I'll typicallysay is like, look, if being busy
were the answer to this, Iwouldn't be running an
(07:06):
intervention company.
I'd be running an employmentagency, like, hey, let's get
this guy a job and get himworking.
But most of us, by the time weneed an intervention or we need
some sort of a residentialtreatment experience, we're not
employable for the most part.
That's not to say that some ofus haven't managed to hang on to
jobs.
That doesn't mean that some ofus aren't the sole breadwinners
(07:28):
in our families.
But generally speaking, we getto this point where there are
certain things that are startingto be in jeopardy and we want
to throw around this term ofwell, he's a functional
alcoholic, he has a job, he'sbringing home a paycheck, he's
(07:48):
supporting the family or she,and you know we don't want to
put that in jeopardy, be to thepoint where, where mine was,
where I had lost every job thatI'd ever had, I I, you know
(08:11):
nobody was was banging my doordown to try to hire me to come
work for them.
Uh, the people that I was ableto get work for, especially
there, at the end they, theyreally did it just more out of
pity.
I think, um, hey, let's see ifwe can't.
You know, kind of the samething.
Let's see if we can't get thisguy a job and get him back on
his feet and see if that thatfixes the problem.
Um, but these were people thatknew me, people that were, you
know, I'd been friends with andand who were just really trying
to do me a favor.
Um, as far as the unity piecegoes, it's really important that
(08:37):
the family get educated.
Most of the time, a lack ofunity is happening because
people don't really know what itis.
Sometimes it's because theythink addiction is a choice
versus a disease.
Why can't they just make betterchoices?
Why can't they just stop doingthis?
(08:58):
There were so many people in mylife that asked that question.
Why can't he just stop?
Why does he keep doing this?
Can't he see that he's burninghis life to the ground.
Well, of course I could see itMaybe not as clearly as
everybody else, but I could seeit.
But this thing that I wasdriving didn't have any brakes.
(09:19):
There was no stopping it.
It was like one of those FredFlintstone cars where I just had
to stick my feet on the groundand try to slow things down and
it wasn't working, you know.
And so, to really help educatethe family of, let's really
learn what it is we're dealingwith.
Let's talk about the fact thatit's not just that this person
(09:41):
needs to stop drinking or stopusing that.
This person is dealing with areal crisis that has person
needs to stop drinking or stopusing that.
This person is dealing with areal crisis that has nothing to
do with drugs or alcohol.
Yes, is that making it worse?
Of course it is, but that's notthe root of the problem.
The root of the problem is thisperson has an untreated health
condition.
This person has untreatedtrauma.
This person has abuse andneglect and abandonment and
(10:02):
rejection that they haven'tdealt with.
This person has abuse andneglect and abandonment and
rejection that they haven'tdealt with.
This person has a real issuearound grief and loss.
There's been things that havehappened, that just the bleeding
is still happening.
It may look differently than itdid when the original injury
happened, but the healing hasnot even come close to starting
(10:24):
yet.
The healing has not even comeclose to starting yet.
Gabor Mate has a really good wayof talking about trauma and the
way he puts it, and I'm tryingto remember which book that this
was from.
I think it was from one of hismore recent books.
But he talks about you know, iftwo people are in a car
accident, the accident is theevent.
(10:48):
The car accident is not thetrauma, because one person may
get up out of that car accidentand not have a scratch.
Another person may have very,very serious injuries.
So we tend to look at theaccident hey, you know what,
both cars got totaled and wewant to look at it and say, okay
(11:09):
, that's the trauma or that'snot traumatic, but it's the
injury that results from theevent.
That's the actual trauma.
You know, you may have peoplethat have gone through very
similar circumstances.
One came out of it fairlyunscathed on an emotional level.
Another came out of it withsome serious emotional injury
(11:31):
and some serious emotionaldamage, and that's how I want
you guys to really look attrauma.
It's not what happened, it'sthe injury that occurred as a
result of what happened, and alot of that has to do with how
strong is this personemotionally, what kind of tools
does this person have from anemotional standpoint, how
(11:53):
resilient are they?
And oftentimes the lack of someof those things can lead to
greater injury than if somebodyhas some of those things in
place already and so don't lookat oh well, this person was
molested, or this person wassexually abused, or this person
was violently beaten.
The injury may look differentfor each of those people.
(12:14):
The trauma is going to lookdifferent for each of those
people, and some people may comeaway from that and may not have
any underlying emotional traumaand may not have any underlying
emotional trauma.
But try to look at it throughthe lens of of injury versus
experience, if that makes sense,and so sometimes educating
(12:34):
families on okay, what?
What is trauma?
What is what is?
You know what's really left amark here that needs healing and
and what hasn't, because traumais one of those words that gets
thrown around these days that Ithink can get really
misinterpreted.
I think a lot of times,especially in this up and coming
generation.
Trauma is one of thosebuzzwords that gets thrown
(12:58):
around pretty flippantly.
In my experience, trauma issomething that can get assigned
to anything that's uncomfortable.
You know I'm being triggered.
My trauma is being triggeredbecause of the way you're
speaking or, you know, becauseof this experience that I'm
having right now, and whatoftentimes that is is that's
(13:20):
just a lack of resilience orthat's a lack of capacity to
handle heightened emotions.
It's not necessarily trauma,and so we really need to
sometimes get educated on whattrauma really is and what it's
not, more importantly, and notget sucked into conversations
(13:40):
where we're being led down theroad of.
You know, I have a real issuehere that nobody's going to
understand.
Well, I think everybodyunderstands what it's like to go
through very emotionallydifficult situations.
The details of that situationmay not be the same for each
person, but we all understandwhat it's like to just feel
completely underwater, to feelcompletely overwhelmed and
(14:02):
completely stuck and have thatfight, flight or freeze.
To feel completely overwhelmedand completely stuck and have
that fight, flight or freezereaction kick in.
That doesn't mean we're intrauma.
That doesn't mean we're havinga traumatic experience.
Sometimes it does, sometimes itdoes and I think that a
catalyst for somebody going downthe road of addiction can be
real, unresolved trauma, and itcan come from a variety of
(14:24):
different sources.
But until the family getsunited on that and either stops
diminishing the real issues orstops attributing some things to
or assigning problems to issuesthat may not necessarily be
real, that's a key piece.
The other thing that I think alot of times families struggle
(14:44):
with is this need to assigneverything to a mental health
condition.
Well, they've got ADHD, or youknow they've got bipolar
disorder, or you know they'vegot this diagnosis it's
depression, it's anxiety, andyou know, if we could just treat
that, then the addiction willgo away.
And I think that's ofteninaccurate as well.
(15:06):
Don't get me wrong.
I think that a huge contributorto ongoing addiction is
unresolved and untreated mentalhealth stuff.
I know that my life improvedwhen I got my clinical
depression treated and Icontinue to have it treated
today, and it's made my lifethat much better today and it's
made my life that much better.
Was it the catalyst for myaddiction?
(15:27):
I don't know.
Was it a problem for me inearly recovery because I wasn't
actively treating my depressionas I got sober Absolutely, and
my recovery, my sobriety, gotthat much richer and that much
more fulfilling when I startedto properly address my mental
health.
(15:48):
But I think that for familiesand I'm just going to say this
plainly and hope that I don'toffend too many of you I think a
lot of you wish that it were amental health issue versus an
addiction issue.
For one, I think that mentalhealth is a much easier
conversation to have because thestigma around mental health
(16:11):
isn't as significant in oursociety today as the stigma
around addiction.
Mental health is seen in a muchmore acceptable way today if
somebody's having some struggleswith mental health versus
somebody who's struggling inactive addiction, no-transcript
(16:53):
without realizing it, want thisto be a mental health issue
because it means that the systemdoesn't have to change as
significantly as it otherwisemight.
And so, as you're looking atthis and you're thinking, oh,
you know, what do we need to dohere, I want you to go into this
with open eyes and, as we'retalking about, you know,
(17:13):
creating some unity in yourfamily system before we ever
address your loved one, it'sreally important that you know
we're not going to go through anentire psychiatric or
psychological evaluation beforewe go and do the intervention.
I'm not qualified to do thatand, frankly, it doesn't need to
happen.
Before we get this person thehelp that they need, I need as
(17:35):
the interventionist, I need tohave a really good understanding
of what we're dealing with.
The times that I've gone intointerventions where there
actually has been physicalviolence and that's only
happened three times in the last20 years but each of those
times that it's happened it'sbecause I walked into a
situation where there was anunknown mental health issue that
(17:56):
the family just didn't know tocommunicate with me whether it
was schizoaffective disorder,schizophrenia, bipolar disorder.
There was something going onmentally with that person that I
wasn't aware of and thingsescalated to a point where,
luckily, nobody ever got gothurt.
But it got to a point wheresomeone was willing to get
(18:18):
physical with me or with someoneelse in the room because the
mental health issues I I most ofit happened long ago, early in
my career, where I, you know.
Luckily today I feel like I'min a much better place to
recognize those things and dealwith those things in the moment.
But early on in my career itwas one of those things where,
(18:39):
hey, if I know about it, I'lllearn about it and I'll do what
I need to do to be prepared forit.
But I got caught off guard acouple of times and things
escalated in a way that theydidn't need to it, in a way that
they didn't need to, and so Iguess the reason that I'm going
down that road is that I want tomake sure that, as a family, as
you're looking at, how do I geteverybody united?
(19:00):
It's really about, okay, whatdo I need to do to properly
educate the family system?
If you are going to use someonelike me as an interventionist
to come in and help you, whatkind of information is the
interventionist going to need?
And we'll ask you the rightquestions.
Don't worry about that part ofit.
It's not that you have to knowahead of time exactly what to
(19:22):
share.
If we're not getting theinformation that we need, we're
going to ask you the rightquestions.
But in terms of you know, ifthis is a situation where I'm
coaching a family on how to dotheir own intervention, uh, it's
going to be really importantthat everybody knows going into
this, okay, this is what we'renot going to say.
(19:42):
This is what we need to say,this is what we have to avoid.
We're not going to escalate,we're not going to try to push
each other's buttons and andwe're not going to take things
personally and so, as you lookat trying to organize this
experience for your family, thatunity piece is so important.
Because the minute things startto go sideways and the minute
(20:03):
that people start to getuncomfortable or feel like, you
know, I'm in territory herewhere I'm not really sure I know
how to handle this.
I'm in territory here where I'mnot really sure I know how to
handle this, the addiction getsso much stronger at that point
and your loved one doesn't evenrealize that this is happening.
But they begin to feel thatunity break and they begin to
feel like, oh, okay, I'm gettinga little bit more control here.
(20:26):
And it's not that they're doingthis maliciously, they're not
doing this because, oh, I'mgoing to exploit this
opportunity so that I can hurtpeople.
The addiction is trying tosurvive and we learn how to
manipulate, we learn how tocontrol, we learn how to get
(20:47):
people to enable us.
And ultimately, that's whatthis addiction is fighting for
is it's fighting to stay incontrol, not just of your loved
one, but of the entire dynamic.
Because if I can keep people inconfusion, if I can keep people
in ignorance, or if I can keeppeople in conflict, then the
addiction gets to stay incontrol, and so it's going to be
(21:09):
very important that everybodyunderstands exactly what is
happening and what's nothappening in terms of what
addiction is and what it's not,what mental health is and what
it's not, what trauma is andwhat it's not.
If there is a professional inthe room that you absolutely let
(21:31):
them take charge, do not doanything that the
interventionist doesn't ask youto do explicitly.
If the person in that room asksyou a question, if they make a
comment to you, look at theinterventionist before you open
your mouth.
That gives you the moment tostop.
If you're likely to have thatimmediate knee-jerk emotional
(21:53):
reaction where, hey, my button'sgetting pushed and this is how
I'm going to respond, and it'snot even a conscious decision
that you make, but it's just oneof those things like, oh, I'm
not going to let him talk to me.
Like that, things quicklyescalate to the point where
they're not controllable anymore.
So giving yourself that momentto just not say anything look at
the interventionist to see whatthey want you to do will
(22:16):
prevent you from having thatimmediate reaction and it'll
give the interventionist anopportunity to direct you on
what it is you either should sayor shouldn't say.
If you're doing this as a family, if you're doing your own
family intervention, it'sprobably a good idea that you
designate somebody in that groupthe person who really has the
(22:36):
most emotional intelligence, theperson who's least likely to
get their buttons pushed.
Not that you want somebodythat's completely disconnected
and not invested in the outcome,but somebody who can detach
from taking things personallyand who can really hold the
respect of not just youraddicted loved one but everybody
(22:58):
else in that room, so that ifthings do start to escalate,
they can say hey, I need you tostop talking.
Hey, can you step outside and,you know, gather yourself.
When you feel like you're readyto come back in, come on back
in and let's have a differentconversation, but for right now
I need you to stop.
If you don't have somebody inthe room that can really do that
(23:19):
, it's probably not going towork.
That is another critical pieceto creating that unity is
allowing some leadership in thatroom whether it's a
professional or whether it's afamily member to really be the
leader and to direct thatexperience towards the goal and
(23:40):
not lose sight of the goal.
It's not about having theconversation that the addiction
wants to have.
It's not about getting lost inthe weeds in terms of the facts
of well, you guys really don'tunderstand what's going on, or
no, this isn't really what'shappening.
You've misrepresented that.
It's about staying focused onwhat is the end goal here.
The end goal is to get thisperson some help.
(24:02):
What's this conversation that'sbeginning to happen has nothing
to do with whether or not we'regoing to get this person help
today.
We need to shift gears, we needto get back on track and so to
have somebody in the room that'sgoing to be able to do that and
keep the cohesive focus of thatgroup on the goal, not on the
(24:23):
details, because when you getinto the facts, when you get
into the details, all of thatcan get disputed.
When I say you get lost in theweeds, that's what I mean.
The addiction wants to createconfusion.
The addiction wants to createcontention and if I can get you
focused on nuances, if I can getyou focused on the minutiae of
stuff that really is justbackground noise in that moment
(24:45):
of how much, how often, who withwhat am I using you know all of
those things.
In that moment, those thingsdon't matter.
And the bigger goal, of course,is is this person getting
closer or further away fromgetting help?
And if they're getting closer,how do I keep moving towards
that goal?
If they're getting further away, how do I redirect the energy
(25:06):
of this conversation to get somecoaching from someone who can
really help you learn?
Okay, this is how thisconversation needs to go.
Previous conversations haven'tworked.
If they had, we wouldn't bewhere we're at right now.
(25:28):
That's something.
It's kind of like a step oneexperience for somebody in
active recovery.
What I've been doing hasn'tbeen working.
So let me learn from somebody,or let me have somebody come in
and sit in the living room withus who can help keep this thing
on track.
So you know, I won't blather ontoo much more about this, but I
really wanted to address thatbecause I think that, just given
(25:51):
what I'm experiencing in mypractice right now, that is
something that I think a lot offamilies struggle with and
historically I've seen thatpretty significantly.
It's not something that's goingto keep.
Like I said, I think mostfamilies all want the same thing
.
The lack of unity comes whenopinions get involved and
(26:15):
personalities get involved andthe baggage that people are
carrying for one another in thatroom can't get set aside long
enough to be able to focus onthe real reason for everybody
coming together in the firstplace.
And so what I would encourageyou to do if you're
contemplating a conversationlike this with your loved one
and you see that potentially,hey, we need this person to be a
(26:37):
part of this, but they're noton board right now, reach out.
I would love to have aconversation with you about how
to make that happen.
Whether we're just exchangingsome emails, you can reach me at
matt at partyrecordscom.
You can book a private sessionwith me at interventiononcallcom
.
There's a number of otherproviders on there.
(26:58):
It doesn't just have to be me.
There's some really goodproviders on there.
Oftentimes, I'm not the rightfit.
Sometimes you'll see somebodythat's going to be a better fit
for you, whether you need afemale interventionist or
whether you need somebody withjust a different personality
type than what I have.
I'm always happy to get peopleconnected with the right
resources if I'm not it.
(27:19):
So I say this at the end ofevery podcast.
But I, I, I really, really meanit.
I think far too many, too manyfamilies are trying to go this
on their own, and there are, sothere's.
There's so much help out thereto be had.
I would love it if some of youguys reached out to me and just
shot me an email and just saidhey, here's where we're at.
(27:41):
What can we do?
I'm not looking to make moneyoff of you.
If it's going to take time, yes, I'll charge you for my time,
but if it's just as simple asreplying to an email, guys, I
don't want you to worry about it.
I do this kind of work becauseI want to help people and I
(28:04):
don't want anyone to have to gothrough what I went through or
what I put my family through asthey were trying to get me help.
So thank you for being here,thank you for listening to this.
If there's anything I can do tobe of assistance to you, please
email me at matt atpartywreckerscom.
If you have a question thatyou'd like for me to answer at
(28:25):
some point here in the next Q&Athat we do.
Please email me your questions.
I'd love to address those anduntil then, I hope your loved
one gets sober and stays sober.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Thank you sober, Thank you.
Thanks again for listening tothe party records.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
(28:56):
A question we can answer in afuture episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
don't enable addiction ever.
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