May 20, 2025 • 33 mins
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What if everything you thought you knew about addiction recovery was wrong? In this eye-opening episode, addiction interventionist Matt Brown tackles five crucial questions that families repeatedly ask when trying to help a loved one struggling with substance use.
The myth of "rock bottom" gets thoroughly debunked as Matt explains why waiting for someone to hit their lowest point before offering help is not only unnecessary but potentially dangerous. "Rock bottom is really wherever we want to stop digging," he shares, revealing how family organization and education can create earlier opportunities for recovery.
Matt offers profound insight into the courage required to set and maintain boundaries with addicted loved ones. Rather than boundaries established from anger (which dissolve when the anger subsides), effective boundaries stem from love and require support systems to withstand the inevitable guilt and pressure that follows. His practical advice for families navigating this emotional minefield provides real hope for those feeling trapped in enabling cycles.
Perhaps most illuminating is Matt's exploration of why "doing it on your own" rarely works for addiction recovery. He expertly explains how substance use isn't actually the problem but rather an attempt to solve deeper issues like untreated mental health conditions, trauma, grief, or abandonment. This fundamental misunderstanding leads many down failed paths of repeated attempts at solo recovery.
For families seeking treatment options, Matt provides clear warning signs of problematic treatment centers and essential questions to ask before committing. His insider perspective on family programming, communication protocols, and quality clinical care offers a roadmap through the often confusing treatment landscape.
The episode concludes with thoughtful reflections on recovery psychology, including why non-alcoholic substitutes might pose hidden risks for those in sobriety. "It's really about staying as far away from the ledge as possible, not seeing how close to the ledge I can get without falling over."
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
seasoned addictioninterventionist, Matt Brown.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism.
(00:22):
Perhaps they are reluctant toget the help that they need.
We are here to educate andentertain you while removing the
fear from the conversation.
Stick with us and we will getyou through it.
Welcome the original partywrecker, Matt Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, thank you for tuning in for another episode of
the Party Wreckers.
Yes, my name is Matt Brown andI am your host.
I want to start out today justby making sure.
A lot of times I'll save thisfor the end of the show, but if
you're not already joining us,every Monday and every Thursday
there's a free families incrisis support call that we do
(01:13):
on Zoom Myself and anothernumber of interventionists from
around the country we get onthere.
We've been having anywhere from60 to 80 families every night
that we do this, where we talkto them just about how to
address the issues that they'regoing through.
We give them real-timestrategies, advice and if you're
(01:36):
not already joining us on that,it's free.
Please tune in 8 pm Easternevery Monday.
Every Thursday.
I want to address a fewquestions that I have been
emailed over the last month orso and again, if you have
questions that you want done.
(01:57):
I'm going to do future episodeslike this where I just do a Q&A
, but I'm going to take fivequestions that I've been asked
by family members over the lastmonth and respond to them here.
If you have a question that youwant me to answer on a future
episode, please email me at mattat partyrecordscom.
The first question that I gotis is there a rock bottom?
(02:20):
And at first I thought well,you know.
The answer to this is obvious.
Of course there's a rock bottom.
But as I look back at my ownlife, you would have thought
that I hit my bottom much, muchsooner than it actually came.
I think for some people thebottom is pretty shallow.
(02:41):
We don't have to experience alot of pain, a lot of distress,
we don't have to put ourfamilies through a lot.
We begin to experience somediscomfort or the family
responds quicker than others doin a situation where they want
to bring it to somebody'sattention and say, hey, we think
you need to get some help, andthe bottom can be rather shallow
(03:05):
.
Boundaries get implemented,structures get put in place, new
conversations begin to happen.
For others, the bottom is much,much deeper.
We have to experience a lot ofdiscomfort, we have to
experience a lot of pain andunfortunately we put our
families through a lot ofdiscomfort and pain along the
(03:26):
way.
The bottom is really whereverwe want to stop.
Digging is kind of the long andshort answer of that.
For some, unfortunately, thebottom is death.
For some, the bottom is prisonor jail.
For some, the bottom is amental hospital or the loss of a
(03:46):
marriage, the loss ofunemployment.
There's so many different waysto define a bottom but yes,
there is a rock bottom and it'sdifferent for every person.
I think the sooner the familycan get organized, the family
can get educated, it limits theamount of enabling that
(04:08):
contributes to somebody hittinga deeper bottom and it allows
that conversation to happen in amuch different way than
sometimes it does as a personproceeds towards their bottom,
because there are entry pointsinto that conversation along the
way towards their bottom,because there are entry points
into that conversation along theway and someone doesn't have to
(04:32):
hit bottom.
That's a myth that I want todispel while I'm thinking about
it here.
The idea that someone has tohit rock bottom before they're
willing to get help is nonsense.
Please don't buy into that.
Rock bottom is really when we,like I said, it's when we decide
to stop digging.
It's when the family hitsbottom, decides to stop enabling
and all of a sudden the personwho's in active addiction has to
(04:56):
become responsible forthemselves.
There's no one left to enablethem.
The bottom comes a lot quickerand it comes in a lot less
painful way if the family getsorganized and educated first.
Second question as a mother, howdo I find the courage to set
boundaries?
(05:16):
Is a question that I think isat the core of anyone getting
ready to have that conversationwith their addicted loved one.
Boundaries are essential.
In fact, the lack of boundariesis really the biggest
contributor to enabling.
And, as I've said before,enabling is like the oxygen to
(05:42):
the fire of addiction.
It's what allows that fire toburn.
And as we limit enabling bysetting boundaries and it
doesn't have to be done out ofanger, in fact, it shouldn't be
done out of anger Anytime.
Somebody sets a boundarystrictly out of anger, if anger
is the only thing holding thatboundary in place, as soon as
(06:06):
the anger is gone, so is theboundary.
I mean as parents, we've allexperienced that where our kids
have done something, we see animmediate need for a corrective
action.
We give a consequence, weground them, whatever the case
is, take away their phone, andas soon as they start to toe the
line, we may have said hey,you're going to lose this for a
(06:27):
week, or you're going to begrounded for a week.
Well, two days into this, threedays into this, all of a sudden
it starts to either beinconvenient for us or there's
some real dramatic change inbehavior to where we start to
think oh, maybe I overreacted alittle bit there in behavior.
To where we start to think oh,maybe I overreacted a little bit
(06:47):
there and we relent onboundaries.
And so if that anger goes away,if that's what's holding a
boundary in place, it's notgoing to sustain itself.
And so a good boundary, ahealthy boundary, is going to
stand the test of anger.
It's going to stand the test oflove.
It's there because it's theright boundary to have and it
should be there because of anger.
It's going to stand the test oflove.
It's there because it's theright boundary to have and it
should be there because of love.
(07:10):
So, finding the courage to setboundaries, as this mother asked
, usually it's the courage notnecessarily to set the boundary.
It's the courage to withstandthe onslaught of guilt that we
feel ourselves, the pressurethat we're going to be getting
(07:31):
from our child or spouse orwhoever the person is that we're
setting the boundary with, andreally being comfortable enough
in the discomfort to be able tosay okay, I get why this is
happening, I understand thepurpose of this and I'm going to
hold this boundary anyway.
It is courageous.
(07:51):
There's nothing weak about it.
It requires an incredibleamount of courage because a
boundary is being implemented,because something is not healthy
, something is not working, andthere needs to be some external
forces brought to play to createhealth, to create wellness in a
(08:13):
relationship or in a dynamic.
And there's going to be someresistance to that, most of the
time by the unhealthyindividuals that we're trying to
set boundaries with.
And when I say unhealthy, I'mnot implying good versus bad.
We all have unhealthy copingstrategies.
We all have things that we wantto have to not change.
(08:36):
And and so when, when we set aboundary, the courage is really
okay.
How do I have this conversationand set this in a loving way?
And two, how do I keep thisboundary in place once the guilt
hits or once the pressure hits?
And that's where you're going toneed support from other people.
(08:59):
This isn't something thatshould necessarily be done alone
, especially when you're dealingwith an addicted individual.
Get some support, get somepeople around you to hold you
accountable and allow yourselfthe opportunity to feel what
you're going to feel.
Don't say, oh, I shouldn't feelguilty for this.
No, of course we're going tofeel guilty.
(09:20):
That's part of the change thatwe go through.
When we set boundaries, there'san evolution that starts to
happen.
There's a change that starts tohappen in us as we become less
codependent, as we becomehealthier.
It's like coming into sobriety.
For somebody who's in activeaddiction, it's going to feel
strange and as we get supportjust like we're asking somebody
(09:42):
in early recovery to get support, get a sponsor, go to meetings,
go to treatment we need that onthe other side as well, so that
we can have the accountabilityand the support that we need to
be able to hold boundaries.
Anyways, I hope that helpedanswer your question Number
three what do you do when yourloved one believes they can get
(10:03):
sober without treatment?
What do you do when your lovedone believes they can get sober
without treatment?
I did have another questionthat was kind of related to this
and that is you know, whensomebody is resistant to going
to meetings and they say, ohwell, aa only works 3% of the
time, which was the stat thatthis person had emailed me about
, that her son had said well,I'm not going to AA, it's not,
(10:23):
it doesn't work, it only worksabout 3% of the time.
You know the kind of the samething is you know I'm not going
to go to treatment becausenumber one treatment doesn't
work.
That's a common objection thatI hear is that you know, I've
been to treatment before.
It didn't work.
I've had friends that go totreatment, that have gone to
treatment.
It didn't work.
They're using again and so I'mgoing to do this on my own.
(10:47):
Or the argument simply is thisisn't bad enough that I need to
go to treatment.
I can do this on my own.
The problem's not as bad as youthink it is.
So this is something that'sstill within my ability to
control.
The old adage I can quitwhenever I want to.
A lot of us buy into that.
(11:07):
A lot of us believe that, andwhat that really boils down to
in my experience is I'm notwilling to give up control.
I'm not willing to admit thatthis is something that I no
longer can control.
I would love to change.
I'd love to no longer cancontrol.
I would love to change.
I'd love to have an easier life.
(11:28):
I'd love to have a better life.
I'd love to be happy.
But I want to do it my way.
I want to do it on my terms.
I want to do it in my timeline.
I want to do it within mycomfort zone, and that's rarely
a recipe for success.
And that's rarely a recipe forsuccess and most of the time,
what I'm recommending isn't goto battle with your loved one
(11:50):
and show them the evidence andsay, hey, this is why going to
treatment is necessary and whythis is never going to work on
your own, because you've triedit here, you tried it again here
, you tried it again this timeand it didn't work.
When you hit someone with justa bunch of facts or a bunch of
statistics and hey, here's theabundance of evidence to show
(12:10):
you that your way hasn't beenworking, why would we want to
have you try this again on yourown?
Most of the time, that's notgoing to be something that a
person's going to respond topositively To be able to say you
know what you're right Now thatyou bring it to my attention.
(12:33):
I have not done a really goodjob of getting sober on my own
in the past.
Most of the time, the responseis well, I really didn't try, or
I had this thing come up, I gotfired from my job and, of
course, I had a relapse, orreturn, to use.
You know, my girlfriend brokeup with me, and so of course,
you know the needed to drown mysorrows there, and you know we
come up with all of thesereasons as to why it didn't work
(12:55):
previous times.
But this time it's really goingto work because this time I'm
really serious about being ableto do it.
And I'm really serious aboutbeing able to do it, and we look
at it as if the drinking or thedrug use is actually the
problem, and that's not theproblem.
That's how we're trying tosolve the problem.
The problem exists on a muchdeeper level, and so when we
(13:22):
think that we can do this on ourown, we're looking at this
through the lens of I can changethis behavior own.
We're looking at this throughthe lens of I can change this
behavior, but we're looking atit through the wrong lens.
Like I said, we have to reallysee this for what it is, and
this is why it's so importantthat families get educated on
what addiction is and what it'snot.
Addiction has very little to dowith whatever substance they're
(13:43):
using.
You know I'll get questionssometimes like well, do they
treat meth addiction?
Do they treat fentanyladdiction?
Do they treat alcoholism?
As if there are different waysto recover based on the
substance or the behavior that'sbeing exhibited.
In my experience, addiction isaddiction is addiction.
(14:03):
In my experience, addiction isaddiction is addiction, and
there's no way that somebodyrecovers differently from
fentanyl versus methamphetamines, versus alcohol, versus
gambling, versus sex, versuswork deep enough.
It's so important to realizethere's much more going on.
(14:27):
You're only seeing the top 25%of the iceberg here and the
others 75% is below the surfaceand it remains invisible until
we get under the surface andreally start to explore.
Okay, what's really going onhere.
Oftentimes there's issues arounduntreated mental health
conditions like depression oranxiety or bipolar disorder or
(14:49):
other personalities disorders orthought disorders.
Sometimes there's issues aroundabuse or neglect or trauma or
abandonment or grief that havenot been dealt with, and those
things can be not just catalystsfor addiction, but certainly
this idea that time heals allwounds.
(15:10):
It's just simply not true.
Does the pain diminish overtime?
Most of the time it does, or wefind a way to diminish the pain
so that it's not as front andcenter all the time as we go
through life.
But there's hurt and there'sdamage that sometimes gets done
that until we heal from that, weare going to continue to
(15:35):
emotionally bleed for years, fordecades, and until we actually
find a way to heal that, notonly will we not heal in our own
lives, but we're also likely topass some of that pain on to
the next generation.
This is what they're talkingabout when they say generational
trauma.
It's the unhealed wounds ofprevious generations that find
(16:00):
their way into that nextgeneration, that find their way
into that next generation.
And when we get into treatmentand we really start to look at
the causes and conditions as towhy do I make the decisions that
I make, why do I haverelationships the way that I
have?
Why do I have this voice in myhead that's constantly
(16:22):
criticizing me?
Or why do I have this voice inmy head that's constantly
criticizing me?
Or why do I have thisparticular behavior that
continues to pop up over andover again?
I continue to self-sabotage andI don't understand why, even if
we recognize that those thingsare there.
Until we understand okay, thisis where that's coming from and
this is how I heal from that, sothat I'm less likely to
(16:45):
continue this behavior goingforward.
That's when we really start tolook at wellness and recovery
not just as abstinence fromsubstances or alcohol or
whatever the compulsive behavioris, but it's healing from the
original hurt and wound thatcaused that in the first place.
(17:06):
So when somebody says, hey, Ican do this on my own, are there
people out there that can stopdrinking or stop using drugs on
their own?
Absolutely Are they.
Few and far between.
That's also true.
But if you look closely, many,many times, what you'll see is
(17:26):
that a person will stop usingdrugs or stop drinking, only to
find that they're nowself-medicating with exercise or
food or work.
One of the things that happenedwhen I was newly sober is I
gained an incredible amount ofweight.
When I got sober, I was I don'tknow exactly what I was, but I
was newly sober is I gained anincredible amount of weight.
When I got sober, I was.
I don't know exactly what I was, but I was definitely under 200
(17:49):
pounds, and for me that's superskinny.
I mean, you could see every ribin my rib cage.
I was undernourished.
I was using a lot of stimulants, which diminished my appetite
anyway, and you know I was.
I was underweight.
Well, what happened is not onlydid my appetite return, but now,
as I began this journey, Ididn't have that self-medicating
(18:12):
behavior of using drugs oralcohol.
All of a sudden, I had anappetite again.
I started eating everythingthat I could and I gained a
tremendous amount of weight andI started eating away my
feelings, and so I went fromunder 200 pounds to right around
and maybe even over 300 poundswithin about a year, year and a
half.
So food became the way that Iself-medicated, and until I
(18:38):
really started to get willing tosee okay, this is what's really
going on with me Did I start toheal from some of that?
Now, once I realized that myweight was becoming a problem,
when my doctor said hey, if youdon't quit smoking cigarettes
and if you don't lose someweight, you're probably not
(18:59):
going to live until you're 40years old.
Well then my next addictionbecame exercise, and within the
next year I went from almost 300pounds back down to close to
200 pounds, and so I founddifferent ways to self-medicate
as I got into early recovery.
So this idea that we can do iton our own most of the time
(19:22):
isn't true.
Are there miracles that happen?
Are there things that happenwhen people just suddenly stop?
Absolutely, absolutely.
That happens, but most of thetime it requires some outside
intervention, it requires somehelp so that, so that we can
(19:44):
really get an understanding ofwhere the pain comes from in the
first place.
Question number four whatquestions can I ask a treatment
center to make sure they're agood fit Boy?
There are some real bad onesout there.
There are treatment centersthat, within the first two
minutes that you're on the phonewith them, when they're asking
(20:06):
you, hey, what kind of insurancedo you have, that would
probably be my first red flag.
Like, if they're, if they'remore interested in finding out
what your insurance is versushow they can actually help your
loved one Uh, that would be aconversation that I cut short
really, really early on.
Um, they are probably justlooking to bill insurance or
(20:29):
making sure that you'refinancially qualified to even
have this conversation with them, rather than actually get
invested in the conversation.
Get invested in your loved oneand see if they can actually.
Are we a good fit or do I needto refer them somewhere else?
Some questions that familiescan ask very early on in the
process, before you even get onthe phone with them.
(20:49):
If the website does not have apage that lists their staff
members, that lists theircredentials, where you can see
oh okay, these are theclinicians that are going to be
working with my loved one.
This person over here is incharge of the residential staff
and the techs oh, this is thechef, and he's in recovery too.
(21:09):
Like there's all kinds ofdifferent people that treatment
centers will put on theirwebsite, and it's important to
pay attention to that becausethat will give you some
indication, not only like hey.
Are these people hanging on totheir employees long enough to
be able to put them on theirwebsite and have some longevity?
Are they invested in their team?
Who, then, the team will beinvested in my loved one?
(21:32):
Are they qualified to be doingthe job that they're doing?
You know, are they actualmaster's level or PhD level
therapists?
Or are they LCDCs, licensedchemical dependency counselors,
which is a certification ratherthan a clinical degree?
And so that's why you want toreally pay attention to a lot of
those things.
(21:53):
On the front end, once you're onthe phone with them, find out a
little bit about the dailystructure.
Are they going to have aprivate room or are they going
to share a room?
Hopefully they're sharing aroom.
A lot of families lately havehave bucked at that a little bit
, as I've had conversations withthem.
Well, you know they're notgoing to like having a shared
room?
Well, of course they're not.
(22:14):
They're not going to like goingto treatment in the first place
, but most of the time a goodtreatment center will have
someone in a shared rooms toprevent isolation, to prevent
that person from going in theroom, closing the door and
shutting themselves off from theentire experience that they're
there to have in the first place.
And so you want to see okay,what time are they required to
get up?
What are they going to be doingfirst thing in the morning?
(22:35):
Are there?
Is there an exercise componentto this?
Is there?
What kind of experientialtherapies do they have?
Is it all talk therapy or arethey going to do some
experiential work?
Or are they doing equine work?
Are they doing equine work?
Are they doing any kind oftrauma work?
If so, what kinds?
Are there therapists trained indifferent therapeutic
(22:58):
modalities, or are they all kindof doing the same type of
therapy, kind of?
The staples of most treatmentprograms are cognitive
behavioral therapy anddialectical behavioral therapy,
but there's also a number ofother types of therapy.
Emdr is a good trauma therapyfor people that are ready for
that.
Ifs internal family systems is awonderful therapeutic modality
(23:18):
for a lot of us.
You want to find out what kindof treatment modalities they're
involved in.
And then, in the evening times,okay, what are you doing in
their downtime?
Are they just hanging outwatching TV?
Are you guys taking them to12-step meetings?
Are you getting them integratedinto a recovery community or
teaching them what it's like tobe in recovery after they leave
(23:39):
treatment?
That's really an importantcomponent to the day-to-day life
of the client.
Then you want to ask them okay,so what kind of communication
can I expect from you?
How often if my loved one, ofcourse, signs a HIPAA release,
which is up to the client, theycan't force them to sign a HIPAA
(24:03):
release and they can't talk toyou without one.
However, a good treatment centeris going to continue to try to
get the family involved alongthe way.
You want to make sure that thattreatment center is going to be
connecting with you.
If you're working with someonelike me as an interventionist,
you're going to want to makesure that they're communicating
with the interventionist as well, so that that interventionist
(24:24):
can help support you even afterthe client is in treatment, if
that's part of the services thatthey provide.
Not all of us do that, but mostinterventionists will have some
degree of support after theclient is in treatment.
Because, let's say, the clientgets into treatment a week into
this experience, they getthirsty, they I mean it's kind
(24:47):
of a crude way of saying it, butthey make a bad decision.
They leave treatment AMAbecause their mind is screaming
at them hey, we need a drink, weneed a drug, and they don't yet
have the defense to be able towork through that and they'll
leave treatment early.
Okay, well then, what?
How much communication are wegoing to have in a circumstance
(25:08):
like this?
What are we going to learn ifour loved one starts to look
like they might be goingsideways?
What kind of treatment, excuseme, what kind of communication
can we expect when things aregoing well?
It's going to be reallyimportant that the treatment
center have some sort ofwraparound component for the
(25:29):
family.
You know, before COVID, so manytreatment centers had in-person
family programs where thefamilies would actually go for
two or three days, sometimeslonger, and actually be at the
treatment center and do familytherapy with a clinician and
their addicted loved one.
And then COVID hit and it justseems like a lot of treatment
centers have not gone back tothat and I wish they would.
(25:53):
I wish treatment centers wouldstart to include a more robust
family program, because therecovery rates go up when
families get the right educationand they actually get to do
some family work with theiraddicted loved one and that the
family's being encouraged to getinto a recovery program of
(26:14):
their own, whether that'sAl-Anon, whether that's adult
children of alcoholics anddysfunctional families, whether
that's CODA, codependence,anonymous there are so many
different organizations outthere to help the loved ones of
people in active addiction whoare also going through a lot and
maybe have come from alcoholicor addicted families themselves,
(26:36):
and so to really make sure thatthe entire system is getting
healthy along the way is areally important piece of this.
If all they're going to do is,hey, we only have the ability to
focus on your loved one, we'lllet you know what their
discharge date is and we'll letyou know what the discharge plan
is going to look like.
But that's about it.
(26:56):
You might want to keep looking.
The other thing you can do, evenif an intervention isn't needed
, reach out to somebody like meand say, hey, I really want to
find a good treatment programfor my loved one.
It doesn't have to be me, ofcourse.
There are people like me, allover the country, and most of
(27:18):
the time, for either no cost ora very small cost, we will help
families find good treatmentprograms.
Most of us don't refer toprograms that we actually
haven't visited and seen and puteyes on ourselves.
So there's a sense offamiliarity, there's a sense of
comfort and confidence that wehave in the programs that we're
referring to.
A lot of times we haveexperience in referring clients
(27:41):
that we've done interventions onthere and they've either worked
really well or no.
I would avoid that treatmentprogram because this is where
they fell short with with aclient that I recently put there
, or I put there a couple ofyears ago, and so you're going
to get more anecdotal evidenceof what's working and what's not
working when you engage aprofessional as well, and so
that's another advantage of ofusing somebody like me.
(28:03):
Even if an intervention isn'tsomething that you're going to
need, there are people out therethat just have a wealth of
knowledge that you could benefitfrom, and most of the time it's
going to be very inexpensive todo that.
Last question here what are yourthoughts on non-alcoholic
(28:25):
beverages for someone who issober?
On non-alcoholic beverages forsomeone who is sober.
You know, this never made senseto me.
I never drank for the taste, Idrank for the effect.
I was talking to a buddy ofmine the other day and he
recently made the decision tostop drinking, and one of the
(28:48):
things that he said to me is youknow, I've I've found that
there's some really good tastingnon-alcoholic beer out there.
And my first thought I didn'tarticulate this out loud, but my
first thought is what the helldoes that matter?
Like good tasting non-alcoholicbeer, like why would you drink
that?
You know it's like drinkingwater drinking a diet Coke.
Like why would you do that?
(29:09):
It's like drinking waterdrinking a Diet Coke.
Why would you do that?
You're not going to get drunk.
And that's the mentality aroundsomebody who's actually
alcoholic in recovery is thatmost of us don't drink for the
taste.
We didn't drink wine becausethis particular wine went really
good with a steak, or this winewent really good with fish.
(29:30):
You know we drank because thiswine had a higher alcohol
content than this wine or thiswhiskey had.
You know the proof was higherthan the vodka.
That's really what we werelooking at when we were drinking
.
Is what's going to get me where.
I want to go as quickly aspossible.
Now don't get me wrong.
(29:52):
There there are one-offs hereand there where people you know
hey, I had a particular brand ofbeer that I drank.
You know, I've got, I've got aguy that I've been working with
that he only drinks Modelo.
I mean, he drinks a lot ofModelo, but that's that's it.
That's all he'll drink, and Iget it.
But it's quantity versusquality for most of us.
(30:16):
So the idea that we can safelyconsume non-alcoholic beer or
non-alcoholic drinks, that I'vebeen seeing on social media a
lot of advertisements foralcohol alternatives I think
that's pretty, pretty thin iceto be to be getting out on,
because most of the time when westart to consume something that
(30:39):
even reminds us of what we weredoing in active addiction, it's
just a matter of time before westart looking for the effect,
even even subconsciously.
It's like you know it's.
It's funny.
I'll go to a restaurant with myfamily and and you know I'll,
usually I'll I'll just orderwater, but I'll drink water like
(31:00):
it's still going to get medrunk.
Here I am 22 years sober andI'll oftentimes ask the server
hey, can you just bring thepitcher?
You know, cause they're fillingmy water glass up.
You know, every time they cometo the table it's like no, it'd
just be easier for you if youleft the pitcher, because I'm
going to drink when I'm at arestaurant.
That was one of my things.
Like I drank because I wantedto get that effect and, and even
(31:24):
though I know that water's notgoing to get me drunk, I will
continue to drink it as thoughit will, just out of habit, and
so I think we have to be careful.
I think we have to be careful.
I'm certainly not going to sithere and say that it's a good
idea.
I'm sure there are people outthere in recovery that have
non-alcoholic drinks,non-alcoholic beer, alcoholic
(31:50):
beer.
I just don't think that it'sthe safest position to be in.
If you're going to be inlong-term recovery, if that is
your goal, it's really aboutstaying as far away from the
ledge as possible, not seeinghow close to the ledge I can get
without falling over.
So those are the five questionsthat I picked out of this group.
If you have a question that youwould like to submit, please
(32:10):
email me at matt atpartyrecordscom.
If you would like to book aone-on-one consultation with me
or any of the providers atIntervention On Call, please go
to interventiononcallcom andbook a session there.
I'd love to meet with you andhelp you with your particular
situation.
Again, I'll say it as areminder here at the end every
Monday and Thursday we have aone-hour Zoom meeting for
(32:33):
families in crisis at 8 pmEastern.
You go to interventiononcallcomto register for that.
It's completely free.
I'd love to see you there andin parting I'll just say, like I
always do when I sign off Ihope that your loved one gets
sober and stays sober.
Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(33:14):
don't enable addiction ever.
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
seasoned addictioninterventionist, Matt Brown.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism.
(00:22):
Perhaps they are reluctant toget the help that they need.
We are here to educate andentertain you while removing the
fear from the conversation.
Stick with us and we will getyou through it.
Welcome the original partywrecker, Matt Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, thank you for tuning in for another episode of
the Party Wreckers.
Yes, my name is Matt Brown andI am your host.
I want to start out today justby making sure.
A lot of times I'll save thisfor the end of the show, but if
you're not already joining us,every Monday and every Thursday
there's a free families incrisis support call that we do
(01:13):
on Zoom Myself and anothernumber of interventionists from
around the country we get onthere.
We've been having anywhere from60 to 80 families every night
that we do this, where we talkto them just about how to
address the issues that they'regoing through.
We give them real-timestrategies, advice and if you're
(01:36):
not already joining us on that,it's free.
Please tune in 8 pm Easternevery Monday.
Every Thursday.
I want to address a fewquestions that I have been
emailed over the last month orso and again, if you have
questions that you want done.
(01:57):
I'm going to do future episodeslike this where I just do a Q&A
, but I'm going to take fivequestions that I've been asked
by family members over the lastmonth and respond to them here.
If you have a question that youwant me to answer on a future
episode, please email me at mattat partyrecordscom.
The first question that I gotis is there a rock bottom?
(02:20):
And at first I thought well,you know.
The answer to this is obvious.
Of course there's a rock bottom.
But as I look back at my ownlife, you would have thought
that I hit my bottom much, muchsooner than it actually came.
I think for some people thebottom is pretty shallow.
(02:41):
We don't have to experience alot of pain, a lot of distress,
we don't have to put ourfamilies through a lot.
We begin to experience somediscomfort or the family
responds quicker than others doin a situation where they want
to bring it to somebody'sattention and say, hey, we think
you need to get some help, andthe bottom can be rather shallow
(03:05):
.
Boundaries get implemented,structures get put in place, new
conversations begin to happen.
For others, the bottom is much,much deeper.
We have to experience a lot ofdiscomfort, we have to
experience a lot of pain andunfortunately we put our
families through a lot ofdiscomfort and pain along the
(03:26):
way.
The bottom is really whereverwe want to stop.
Digging is kind of the long andshort answer of that.
For some, unfortunately, thebottom is death.
For some, the bottom is prisonor jail.
For some, the bottom is amental hospital or the loss of a
(03:46):
marriage, the loss ofunemployment.
There's so many different waysto define a bottom but yes,
there is a rock bottom and it'sdifferent for every person.
I think the sooner the familycan get organized, the family
can get educated, it limits theamount of enabling that
(04:08):
contributes to somebody hittinga deeper bottom and it allows
that conversation to happen in amuch different way than
sometimes it does as a personproceeds towards their bottom,
because there are entry pointsinto that conversation along the
way towards their bottom,because there are entry points
into that conversation along theway and someone doesn't have to
(04:32):
hit bottom.
That's a myth that I want todispel while I'm thinking about
it here.
The idea that someone has tohit rock bottom before they're
willing to get help is nonsense.
Please don't buy into that.
Rock bottom is really when we,like I said, it's when we decide
to stop digging.
It's when the family hitsbottom, decides to stop enabling
and all of a sudden the personwho's in active addiction has to
(04:56):
become responsible forthemselves.
There's no one left to enablethem.
The bottom comes a lot quickerand it comes in a lot less
painful way if the family getsorganized and educated first.
Second question as a mother, howdo I find the courage to set
boundaries?
(05:16):
Is a question that I think isat the core of anyone getting
ready to have that conversationwith their addicted loved one.
Boundaries are essential.
In fact, the lack of boundariesis really the biggest
contributor to enabling.
And, as I've said before,enabling is like the oxygen to
(05:42):
the fire of addiction.
It's what allows that fire toburn.
And as we limit enabling bysetting boundaries and it
doesn't have to be done out ofanger, in fact, it shouldn't be
done out of anger Anytime.
Somebody sets a boundarystrictly out of anger, if anger
is the only thing holding thatboundary in place, as soon as
(06:06):
the anger is gone, so is theboundary.
I mean as parents, we've allexperienced that where our kids
have done something, we see animmediate need for a corrective
action.
We give a consequence, weground them, whatever the case
is, take away their phone, andas soon as they start to toe the
line, we may have said hey,you're going to lose this for a
(06:27):
week, or you're going to begrounded for a week.
Well, two days into this, threedays into this, all of a sudden
it starts to either beinconvenient for us or there's
some real dramatic change inbehavior to where we start to
think oh, maybe I overreacted alittle bit there in behavior.
To where we start to think oh,maybe I overreacted a little bit
(06:47):
there and we relent onboundaries.
And so if that anger goes away,if that's what's holding a
boundary in place, it's notgoing to sustain itself.
And so a good boundary, ahealthy boundary, is going to
stand the test of anger.
It's going to stand the test oflove.
It's there because it's theright boundary to have and it
should be there because of anger.
It's going to stand the test oflove.
It's there because it's theright boundary to have and it
should be there because of love.
(07:10):
So, finding the courage to setboundaries, as this mother asked
, usually it's the courage notnecessarily to set the boundary.
It's the courage to withstandthe onslaught of guilt that we
feel ourselves, the pressurethat we're going to be getting
(07:31):
from our child or spouse orwhoever the person is that we're
setting the boundary with, andreally being comfortable enough
in the discomfort to be able tosay okay, I get why this is
happening, I understand thepurpose of this and I'm going to
hold this boundary anyway.
It is courageous.
(07:51):
There's nothing weak about it.
It requires an incredibleamount of courage because a
boundary is being implemented,because something is not healthy
, something is not working, andthere needs to be some external
forces brought to play to createhealth, to create wellness in a
(08:13):
relationship or in a dynamic.
And there's going to be someresistance to that, most of the
time by the unhealthyindividuals that we're trying to
set boundaries with.
And when I say unhealthy, I'mnot implying good versus bad.
We all have unhealthy copingstrategies.
We all have things that we wantto have to not change.
(08:36):
And and so when, when we set aboundary, the courage is really
okay.
How do I have this conversationand set this in a loving way?
And two, how do I keep thisboundary in place once the guilt
hits or once the pressure hits?
And that's where you're going toneed support from other people.
(08:59):
This isn't something thatshould necessarily be done alone
, especially when you're dealingwith an addicted individual.
Get some support, get somepeople around you to hold you
accountable and allow yourselfthe opportunity to feel what
you're going to feel.
Don't say, oh, I shouldn't feelguilty for this.
No, of course we're going tofeel guilty.
(09:20):
That's part of the change thatwe go through.
When we set boundaries, there'san evolution that starts to
happen.
There's a change that starts tohappen in us as we become less
codependent, as we becomehealthier.
It's like coming into sobriety.
For somebody who's in activeaddiction, it's going to feel
strange and as we get supportjust like we're asking somebody
(09:42):
in early recovery to get support, get a sponsor, go to meetings,
go to treatment we need that onthe other side as well, so that
we can have the accountabilityand the support that we need to
be able to hold boundaries.
Anyways, I hope that helpedanswer your question Number
three what do you do when yourloved one believes they can get
(10:03):
sober without treatment?
What do you do when your lovedone believes they can get sober
without treatment?
I did have another questionthat was kind of related to this
and that is you know, whensomebody is resistant to going
to meetings and they say, ohwell, aa only works 3% of the
time, which was the stat thatthis person had emailed me about
, that her son had said well,I'm not going to AA, it's not,
(10:23):
it doesn't work, it only worksabout 3% of the time.
You know the kind of the samething is you know I'm not going
to go to treatment becausenumber one treatment doesn't
work.
That's a common objection thatI hear is that you know, I've
been to treatment before.
It didn't work.
I've had friends that go totreatment, that have gone to
treatment.
It didn't work.
They're using again and so I'mgoing to do this on my own.
(10:47):
Or the argument simply is thisisn't bad enough that I need to
go to treatment.
I can do this on my own.
The problem's not as bad as youthink it is.
So this is something that'sstill within my ability to
control.
The old adage I can quitwhenever I want to.
A lot of us buy into that.
(11:07):
A lot of us believe that, andwhat that really boils down to
in my experience is I'm notwilling to give up control.
I'm not willing to admit thatthis is something that I no
longer can control.
I would love to change.
I'd love to no longer cancontrol.
I would love to change.
I'd love to have an easier life.
(11:28):
I'd love to have a better life.
I'd love to be happy.
But I want to do it my way.
I want to do it on my terms.
I want to do it in my timeline.
I want to do it within mycomfort zone, and that's rarely
a recipe for success.
And that's rarely a recipe forsuccess and most of the time,
what I'm recommending isn't goto battle with your loved one
(11:50):
and show them the evidence andsay, hey, this is why going to
treatment is necessary and whythis is never going to work on
your own, because you've triedit here, you tried it again here
, you tried it again this timeand it didn't work.
When you hit someone with justa bunch of facts or a bunch of
statistics and hey, here's theabundance of evidence to show
(12:10):
you that your way hasn't beenworking, why would we want to
have you try this again on yourown?
Most of the time, that's notgoing to be something that a
person's going to respond topositively To be able to say you
know what you're right Now thatyou bring it to my attention.
(12:33):
I have not done a really goodjob of getting sober on my own
in the past.
Most of the time, the responseis well, I really didn't try, or
I had this thing come up, I gotfired from my job and, of
course, I had a relapse, orreturn, to use.
You know, my girlfriend brokeup with me, and so of course,
you know the needed to drown mysorrows there, and you know we
come up with all of thesereasons as to why it didn't work
(12:55):
previous times.
But this time it's really goingto work because this time I'm
really serious about being ableto do it.
And I'm really serious aboutbeing able to do it, and we look
at it as if the drinking or thedrug use is actually the
problem, and that's not theproblem.
That's how we're trying tosolve the problem.
The problem exists on a muchdeeper level, and so when we
(13:22):
think that we can do this on ourown, we're looking at this
through the lens of I can changethis behavior own.
We're looking at this throughthe lens of I can change this
behavior, but we're looking atit through the wrong lens.
Like I said, we have to reallysee this for what it is, and
this is why it's so importantthat families get educated on
what addiction is and what it'snot.
Addiction has very little to dowith whatever substance they're
(13:43):
using.
You know I'll get questionssometimes like well, do they
treat meth addiction?
Do they treat fentanyladdiction?
Do they treat alcoholism?
As if there are different waysto recover based on the
substance or the behavior that'sbeing exhibited.
In my experience, addiction isaddiction is addiction.
(14:03):
In my experience, addiction isaddiction is addiction, and
there's no way that somebodyrecovers differently from
fentanyl versus methamphetamines, versus alcohol, versus
gambling, versus sex, versuswork deep enough.
It's so important to realizethere's much more going on.
(14:27):
You're only seeing the top 25%of the iceberg here and the
others 75% is below the surfaceand it remains invisible until
we get under the surface andreally start to explore.
Okay, what's really going onhere.
Oftentimes there's issues arounduntreated mental health
conditions like depression oranxiety or bipolar disorder or
(14:49):
other personalities disorders orthought disorders.
Sometimes there's issues aroundabuse or neglect or trauma or
abandonment or grief that havenot been dealt with, and those
things can be not just catalystsfor addiction, but certainly
this idea that time heals allwounds.
(15:10):
It's just simply not true.
Does the pain diminish overtime?
Most of the time it does, or wefind a way to diminish the pain
so that it's not as front andcenter all the time as we go
through life.
But there's hurt and there'sdamage that sometimes gets done
that until we heal from that, weare going to continue to
(15:35):
emotionally bleed for years, fordecades, and until we actually
find a way to heal that, notonly will we not heal in our own
lives, but we're also likely topass some of that pain on to
the next generation.
This is what they're talkingabout when they say generational
trauma.
It's the unhealed wounds ofprevious generations that find
(16:00):
their way into that nextgeneration, that find their way
into that next generation.
And when we get into treatmentand we really start to look at
the causes and conditions as towhy do I make the decisions that
I make, why do I haverelationships the way that I
have?
Why do I have this voice in myhead that's constantly
(16:22):
criticizing me?
Or why do I have this voice inmy head that's constantly
criticizing me?
Or why do I have thisparticular behavior that
continues to pop up over andover again?
I continue to self-sabotage andI don't understand why, even if
we recognize that those thingsare there.
Until we understand okay, thisis where that's coming from and
this is how I heal from that, sothat I'm less likely to
(16:45):
continue this behavior goingforward.
That's when we really start tolook at wellness and recovery
not just as abstinence fromsubstances or alcohol or
whatever the compulsive behavioris, but it's healing from the
original hurt and wound thatcaused that in the first place.
(17:06):
So when somebody says, hey, Ican do this on my own, are there
people out there that can stopdrinking or stop using drugs on
their own?
Absolutely Are they.
Few and far between.
That's also true.
But if you look closely, many,many times, what you'll see is
(17:26):
that a person will stop usingdrugs or stop drinking, only to
find that they're nowself-medicating with exercise or
food or work.
One of the things that happenedwhen I was newly sober is I
gained an incredible amount ofweight.
When I got sober, I was I don'tknow exactly what I was, but I
was newly sober is I gained anincredible amount of weight.
When I got sober, I was.
I don't know exactly what I was, but I was definitely under 200
(17:49):
pounds, and for me that's superskinny.
I mean, you could see every ribin my rib cage.
I was undernourished.
I was using a lot of stimulants, which diminished my appetite
anyway, and you know I was.
I was underweight.
Well, what happened is not onlydid my appetite return, but now,
as I began this journey, Ididn't have that self-medicating
(18:12):
behavior of using drugs oralcohol.
All of a sudden, I had anappetite again.
I started eating everythingthat I could and I gained a
tremendous amount of weight andI started eating away my
feelings, and so I went fromunder 200 pounds to right around
and maybe even over 300 poundswithin about a year, year and a
half.
So food became the way that Iself-medicated, and until I
(18:38):
really started to get willing tosee okay, this is what's really
going on with me Did I start toheal from some of that?
Now, once I realized that myweight was becoming a problem,
when my doctor said hey, if youdon't quit smoking cigarettes
and if you don't lose someweight, you're probably not
(18:59):
going to live until you're 40years old.
Well then my next addictionbecame exercise, and within the
next year I went from almost 300pounds back down to close to
200 pounds, and so I founddifferent ways to self-medicate
as I got into early recovery.
So this idea that we can do iton our own most of the time
(19:22):
isn't true.
Are there miracles that happen?
Are there things that happenwhen people just suddenly stop?
Absolutely, absolutely.
That happens, but most of thetime it requires some outside
intervention, it requires somehelp so that, so that we can
(19:44):
really get an understanding ofwhere the pain comes from in the
first place.
Question number four whatquestions can I ask a treatment
center to make sure they're agood fit Boy?
There are some real bad onesout there.
There are treatment centersthat, within the first two
minutes that you're on the phonewith them, when they're asking
(20:06):
you, hey, what kind of insurancedo you have, that would
probably be my first red flag.
Like, if they're, if they'remore interested in finding out
what your insurance is versushow they can actually help your
loved one Uh, that would be aconversation that I cut short
really, really early on.
Um, they are probably justlooking to bill insurance or
(20:29):
making sure that you'refinancially qualified to even
have this conversation with them, rather than actually get
invested in the conversation.
Get invested in your loved oneand see if they can actually.
Are we a good fit or do I needto refer them somewhere else?
Some questions that familiescan ask very early on in the
process, before you even get onthe phone with them.
(20:49):
If the website does not have apage that lists their staff
members, that lists theircredentials, where you can see
oh okay, these are theclinicians that are going to be
working with my loved one.
This person over here is incharge of the residential staff
and the techs oh, this is thechef, and he's in recovery too.
(21:09):
Like there's all kinds ofdifferent people that treatment
centers will put on theirwebsite, and it's important to
pay attention to that becausethat will give you some
indication, not only like hey.
Are these people hanging on totheir employees long enough to
be able to put them on theirwebsite and have some longevity?
Are they invested in their team?
Who, then, the team will beinvested in my loved one?
(21:32):
Are they qualified to be doingthe job that they're doing?
You know, are they actualmaster's level or PhD level
therapists?
Or are they LCDCs, licensedchemical dependency counselors,
which is a certification ratherthan a clinical degree?
And so that's why you want toreally pay attention to a lot of
those things.
(21:53):
On the front end, once you're onthe phone with them, find out a
little bit about the dailystructure.
Are they going to have aprivate room or are they going
to share a room?
Hopefully they're sharing aroom.
A lot of families lately havehave bucked at that a little bit
, as I've had conversations withthem.
Well, you know they're notgoing to like having a shared
room?
Well, of course they're not.
(22:14):
They're not going to like goingto treatment in the first place
, but most of the time a goodtreatment center will have
someone in a shared rooms toprevent isolation, to prevent
that person from going in theroom, closing the door and
shutting themselves off from theentire experience that they're
there to have in the first place.
And so you want to see okay,what time are they required to
get up?
What are they going to be doingfirst thing in the morning?
(22:35):
Are there?
Is there an exercise componentto this?
Is there?
What kind of experientialtherapies do they have?
Is it all talk therapy or arethey going to do some
experiential work?
Or are they doing equine work?
Are they doing equine work?
Are they doing any kind oftrauma work?
If so, what kinds?
Are there therapists trained indifferent therapeutic
(22:58):
modalities, or are they all kindof doing the same type of
therapy, kind of?
The staples of most treatmentprograms are cognitive
behavioral therapy anddialectical behavioral therapy,
but there's also a number ofother types of therapy.
Emdr is a good trauma therapyfor people that are ready for
that.
Ifs internal family systems is awonderful therapeutic modality
(23:18):
for a lot of us.
You want to find out what kindof treatment modalities they're
involved in.
And then, in the evening times,okay, what are you doing in
their downtime?
Are they just hanging outwatching TV?
Are you guys taking them to12-step meetings?
Are you getting them integratedinto a recovery community or
teaching them what it's like tobe in recovery after they leave
(23:39):
treatment?
That's really an importantcomponent to the day-to-day life
of the client.
Then you want to ask them okay,so what kind of communication
can I expect from you?
How often if my loved one, ofcourse, signs a HIPAA release,
which is up to the client, theycan't force them to sign a HIPAA
(24:03):
release and they can't talk toyou without one.
However, a good treatment centeris going to continue to try to
get the family involved alongthe way.
You want to make sure that thattreatment center is going to be
connecting with you.
If you're working with someonelike me as an interventionist,
you're going to want to makesure that they're communicating
with the interventionist as well, so that that interventionist
(24:24):
can help support you even afterthe client is in treatment, if
that's part of the services thatthey provide.
Not all of us do that, but mostinterventionists will have some
degree of support after theclient is in treatment.
Because, let's say, the clientgets into treatment a week into
this experience, they getthirsty, they I mean it's kind
(24:47):
of a crude way of saying it, butthey make a bad decision.
They leave treatment AMAbecause their mind is screaming
at them hey, we need a drink, weneed a drug, and they don't yet
have the defense to be able towork through that and they'll
leave treatment early.
Okay, well then, what?
How much communication are wegoing to have in a circumstance
(25:08):
like this?
What are we going to learn ifour loved one starts to look
like they might be goingsideways?
What kind of treatment, excuseme, what kind of communication
can we expect when things aregoing well?
It's going to be reallyimportant that the treatment
center have some sort ofwraparound component for the
(25:29):
family.
You know, before COVID, so manytreatment centers had in-person
family programs where thefamilies would actually go for
two or three days, sometimeslonger, and actually be at the
treatment center and do familytherapy with a clinician and
their addicted loved one.
And then COVID hit and it justseems like a lot of treatment
centers have not gone back tothat and I wish they would.
(25:53):
I wish treatment centers wouldstart to include a more robust
family program, because therecovery rates go up when
families get the right educationand they actually get to do
some family work with theiraddicted loved one and that the
family's being encouraged to getinto a recovery program of
(26:14):
their own, whether that'sAl-Anon, whether that's adult
children of alcoholics anddysfunctional families, whether
that's CODA, codependence,anonymous there are so many
different organizations outthere to help the loved ones of
people in active addiction whoare also going through a lot and
maybe have come from alcoholicor addicted families themselves,
(26:36):
and so to really make sure thatthe entire system is getting
healthy along the way is areally important piece of this.
If all they're going to do is,hey, we only have the ability to
focus on your loved one, we'lllet you know what their
discharge date is and we'll letyou know what the discharge plan
is going to look like.
But that's about it.
(26:56):
You might want to keep looking.
The other thing you can do, evenif an intervention isn't needed
, reach out to somebody like meand say, hey, I really want to
find a good treatment programfor my loved one.
It doesn't have to be me, ofcourse.
There are people like me, allover the country, and most of
(27:18):
the time, for either no cost ora very small cost, we will help
families find good treatmentprograms.
Most of us don't refer toprograms that we actually
haven't visited and seen and puteyes on ourselves.
So there's a sense offamiliarity, there's a sense of
comfort and confidence that wehave in the programs that we're
referring to.
A lot of times we haveexperience in referring clients
(27:41):
that we've done interventions onthere and they've either worked
really well or no.
I would avoid that treatmentprogram because this is where
they fell short with with aclient that I recently put there
, or I put there a couple ofyears ago, and so you're going
to get more anecdotal evidenceof what's working and what's not
working when you engage aprofessional as well, and so
that's another advantage of ofusing somebody like me.
(28:03):
Even if an intervention isn'tsomething that you're going to
need, there are people out therethat just have a wealth of
knowledge that you could benefitfrom, and most of the time it's
going to be very inexpensive todo that.
Last question here what are yourthoughts on non-alcoholic
(28:25):
beverages for someone who issober?
On non-alcoholic beverages forsomeone who is sober.
You know, this never made senseto me.
I never drank for the taste, Idrank for the effect.
I was talking to a buddy ofmine the other day and he
recently made the decision tostop drinking, and one of the
(28:48):
things that he said to me is youknow, I've I've found that
there's some really good tastingnon-alcoholic beer out there.
And my first thought I didn'tarticulate this out loud, but my
first thought is what the helldoes that matter?
Like good tasting non-alcoholicbeer, like why would you drink
that?
You know it's like drinkingwater drinking a diet Coke.
Like why would you do that?
(29:09):
It's like drinking waterdrinking a Diet Coke.
Why would you do that?
You're not going to get drunk.
And that's the mentality aroundsomebody who's actually
alcoholic in recovery is thatmost of us don't drink for the
taste.
We didn't drink wine becausethis particular wine went really
good with a steak, or this winewent really good with fish.
(29:30):
You know we drank because thiswine had a higher alcohol
content than this wine or thiswhiskey had.
You know the proof was higherthan the vodka.
That's really what we werelooking at when we were drinking
.
Is what's going to get me where.
I want to go as quickly aspossible.
Now don't get me wrong.
(29:52):
There there are one-offs hereand there where people you know
hey, I had a particular brand ofbeer that I drank.
You know, I've got, I've got aguy that I've been working with
that he only drinks Modelo.
I mean, he drinks a lot ofModelo, but that's that's it.
That's all he'll drink, and Iget it.
But it's quantity versusquality for most of us.
(30:16):
So the idea that we can safelyconsume non-alcoholic beer or
non-alcoholic drinks, that I'vebeen seeing on social media a
lot of advertisements foralcohol alternatives I think
that's pretty, pretty thin iceto be to be getting out on,
because most of the time when westart to consume something that
(30:39):
even reminds us of what we weredoing in active addiction, it's
just a matter of time before westart looking for the effect,
even even subconsciously.
It's like you know it's.
It's funny.
I'll go to a restaurant with myfamily and and you know I'll,
usually I'll I'll just orderwater, but I'll drink water like
(31:00):
it's still going to get medrunk.
Here I am 22 years sober andI'll oftentimes ask the server
hey, can you just bring thepitcher?
You know, cause they're fillingmy water glass up.
You know, every time they cometo the table it's like no, it'd
just be easier for you if youleft the pitcher, because I'm
going to drink when I'm at arestaurant.
That was one of my things.
Like I drank because I wantedto get that effect and, and even
(31:24):
though I know that water's notgoing to get me drunk, I will
continue to drink it as thoughit will, just out of habit, and
so I think we have to be careful.
I think we have to be careful.
I'm certainly not going to sithere and say that it's a good
idea.
I'm sure there are people outthere in recovery that have
non-alcoholic drinks,non-alcoholic beer, alcoholic
(31:50):
beer.
I just don't think that it'sthe safest position to be in.
If you're going to be inlong-term recovery, if that is
your goal, it's really aboutstaying as far away from the
ledge as possible, not seeinghow close to the ledge I can get
without falling over.
So those are the five questionsthat I picked out of this group.
If you have a question that youwould like to submit, please
(32:10):
email me at matt atpartyrecordscom.
If you would like to book aone-on-one consultation with me
or any of the providers atIntervention On Call, please go
to interventiononcallcom andbook a session there.
I'd love to meet with you andhelp you with your particular
situation.
Again, I'll say it as areminder here at the end every
Monday and Thursday we have aone-hour Zoom meeting for
(32:33):
families in crisis at 8 pmEastern.
You go to interventiononcallcomto register for that.
It's completely free.
I'd love to see you there andin parting I'll just say, like I
always do when I sign off Ihope that your loved one gets
sober and stays sober.
Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(33:14):
don't enable addiction ever.
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