July 5, 2024 • 42 mins
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Do you wonder how to truly support a loved one battling addiction? This episode of the Party Wreckers podcast promises to equip you with some tools and insights you need to make a real difference. We kick things off as we dive into our newly launched virtual family support group, Intervention On Call, which offers a free, solution-focused space for families dealing with addiction. Unlike the unpredictable nature of some Al-Anon meetings, our group is designed to provide immediate, actionable solutions for both newcomers and regulars, ensuring a supportive community for everyone involved.
In the second segment, we're tackling a pressing societal issue: young adults demanding adult privileges without the accepting corresponding responsibilities. This imbalance not only strains family dynamics but also has broader implications for society. We also delve into the open-air fentanyl market in the Pacific Northwest, exploring the complex challenges of decriminalizing substances without a robust treatment infrastructure in place. From there, we touch on presidential debate and frustrations with current leadership, emphasizing the need for a more focused approach to the addiction crisis. We even highlight a notable leader who successfully incorporates the 12 steps into his daily life, providing a refreshing perspective on leadership and recovery.
Lastly, we confront the heartbreaking issue of overdose deaths and the vital role families play in preventing these tragedies. We share a deeply personal story about the overdose of a young friend, illustrating the often-overlooked insanity of addiction. It's crucial for families to overcome their emotional paralysis and take proactive steps, even when it means confronting difficult truths and fear of conflict. By focusing on what needs to be done and taking things one step at a time, families can break down barriers and move forward with interventions that save lives. Join us as we navigate these challenging topics with expertise, compassion, and a touch of humor, offering hope and practical advice for those in need.
Join us Every Sunday at 8:00 PM PST and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday Night at 8:00 PM EST/5:00PST for a FREE family support group. Register at the following link to get the zoom information sent to you: Family Support Meeting
About our sponsor(s):
Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist. While a professional intervention can be a powerful experience for change, not every family needs a professionally led intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professional intervention, we can help. Hour sessions are $150.
Therapy is a very important way to take care of your mental health. This can happen from the comfort of your own home or office. If you need therapy and want to get a discount on your first month of services please try Better Help.
If you want to know more about the host's private practice please visit:
Matt Brown: Freedom Interventions
Follow the host on TikTok
Matt: @mattbrowninterventionist
If you have a question that we can answer on the show, please email us at matt@partywreckers.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
professional interventionistsMatt Brown and Sam Davis.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism and are
reluctant to get the help thatthey need.
We hope to educate andentertain you while removing the
(00:25):
fear from the conversation.
Stay with us and we'll get youthrough it.
Please welcome the partywreckers, matt Brown and Sam
Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome back everyone .
I apologize for my raspy voice.
I'm getting over one of thosesummertime colds and, for
whatever reason, every time theweather changes my voice tends
to go if it sounds like I'm inpuberty again.
So 51-year-old man with a voiceof a 13-year-old today, so
hopefully it doesn't distractpeople too much, sam, you doing
(01:03):
you know, I'm not in pubertyanymore that's good, I've missed
the summer, cold, glad to hearglad to glad of that.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Sorry you're not feeling well, man, but you sound
good.
Sound kind of got a little wolfman jack going on or wolf gang,
wolf gang jack yeah, hey, howy'all doing today.
Sounds exactly like it, exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I can do an impression or two.
Not that that's one that I'vereally like had to go, you know,
keep on the forefront of mymind, but when you said the name
I remembered I could sound alittle bit like it.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
No, you pulled it right out, man, you really did
Like, just on a snap.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, I feel great, like I don't feel badly anymore.
It's just my voice that'strying to catch up with the rest
of my body.
A lot of people would say thatwas sexy.
Well, I mean, hey, I'm notgoing to deny them that if
that's what they want to say.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
There's going to be a lot of people out here that
like that.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
So just roll.
Well then, let me add a littlebass to my voice and let's sit
down and talk.
Okay, let me add a little bassto my voice and let's sit down
and talk.
Yeah, I can't do Barry White,oh, barry White, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Who's Barry Robinson?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I don't even know who he is.
I don't know.
He's probably somebody famousthat you know better than I do.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
It works, though.
I got your reference.
I'm just flopping things allaround here today, that's all
right, that's all right.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, guys, before we jump into the meat and potatoes
of what we're going to talkabout today, I want to preface
what we're going to say.
If you are a family with aloved one or a family member of
a loved one who's strugglingwith addiction, you will
probably get your toes steppedon today with what we're going
to talk about.
It's not maliciousno-transcript on Intervention On
(03:15):
Call.
Every Thursday night for thelast I don't know six months, we
started doing this back inJanuary.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, it was your brainchild back in January.
Yeah, we launched it.
It was actually before January,around the holidays, when you
started this and it's a freefamily support group virtually
for any families that just needsome coaching or some support
from other family members andfrom the folks that run it.
We keep it solution-basedbecause, just like the rooms of
(03:44):
AA, na, ca and all these 12-stepfellowships, some meetings can
be hit or miss.
Some pockets of the country arestronger than other ones in the
solution A lot of them.
You can go to some meetings andthere'll be some watered-down
middle-of-the-road stuff aboutjust don't drink, no matter what
.
Some of the Al-Anon can appearas that they're just griping
about their loved one and theydon't seem to be in a solution.
(04:07):
So I had that with severalfamilies that I worked with over
the last several months,especially just one.
Right after the other wassaying well, I've been to
Al-Anon.
It just seemed like a excuse,my language, a bitch fest.
They just seem stuck in aproblem.
I'm like yeah, well, you know,you got enough alinomy, you'll
(04:30):
find a good one, you got to findyour tribe, but that's not very
helpful when you're you knowyou're desperate and you need
some solution.
You know like you neededsolution.
Lack of power is your dilemmaand you needed it yesterday.
Bouncing around from meeting tomeeting can be frustrating.
People can lose steam.
So you had this idea of let'sput a virtual family support
group together and we use oursocial media outlets to promote
it and let people know about it,and they get on on Zoom at 8
(04:55):
o'clock on Thursday eveningEastern time, and sometimes,
well, we have 8.
Sometimes we have 14.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, we've had some, some meetings with, you know,
close to 20.
Um, it's been nice.
When the the meetings are arebigger, uh, just because more
people get to participate, Ithink we can help more people.
But even for those that don'twant to talk, just to listen to
some of the feedback we givefamilies on their current
situation, can be helpful tothose that just want to listen
(05:23):
and uh, and we've got someregulars that come back every
single week and we've got somenew people now joining us every
week and I think for thosefamilies that number one hey, I
don't know if I need anintervention.
I don't know if I want to workwith an interventionist.
I've heard some pretty negativethings about intervention and
I'm not sure if this issomething I want to.
You know, people are telling methat it's something I ought to
(05:43):
look into, but I'm not so sure.
Come and talk with aninterventionist for free on
Thursday nights and we willtreat this just as best we can
as far as you know, giving youdirect solutions for direct
problems.
And, like Sam says, we try tokeep it solution based and you
know, we want to make sure thatif people are going to give us
an hour of their time on aThursday night, that we're going
to give them everything we got.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
And I think we do that.
We'll have several providersthat'll be on there at the same
time and mix it up a little bit.
We do keep it solution-based.
It keeps things on track.
You know a lot of families andit's not even if they're not
even considering an interventionor not at that point yet, or
even or even if they've alreadydone one and their loved ones in
(06:26):
treatment.
It is good to have some supportto where you don't feel like
you're alone.
Yeah, cause we can have somecrazy thoughts, some crazy ideas
and to be able to hear somebodyexpress you know that they're
going through the same thing andhaving the same thoughts.
It's, it's comforting.
You know, last week, man, I wasso full of anxiety and just,
(06:46):
man, it just came out of nowhereand I'm usually not a guy with
anxiety and it just came out ofnowhere that day and I just
wanted to crawl in the bed andpull the covers up over my head
and escape.
And I made the decision thatwhenever I talked to someone
that day, I was going to tellthem when they say hey, what are
you up to?
How are you?
I was honest.
I'm like man, honestly, I'mfull of anxiety.
I like to crawl into bed hasthat ever happened to you?
(07:07):
And they're like oh yeah, ithappens to me.
Yeah, it just happened to methe other day.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I talked to you about it, you sure did.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
You shared it with me .
It happens to you.
Everyone around me is losingtheir mind along with me.
Or I'm normal, you know it'snothing to.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Well, and not just to hear that it's happening to
other people, but to get somefeedback on okay, well, if this
is happening to you, how do youdeal with it?
I mean, that was the nextquestion you asked me.
Is, once we found out that wewere more more alike than you
realized, like, okay, what doyou do about it?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, you know it's.
I have been on the familysupport groups now, like you
said, we've been doing them awhile and have seen the growth
(08:00):
of some of these families andthat's you know.
I can see the results in them.
If I miss a couple of familygroups, you know from work or
family or whatever whateverreason, and I come back, plug
back in like I can see thegrowth in these families and
these individuals, you know fromthe two weeks prior.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
And the ones that are regulars, the ones that we're
seeing that growth, are the ones, typically, whose loved ones.
There's a couple of them whohave loved ones who are in
treatment currently.
There's one that that has a sonwho's who's been out of
treatment now for several monthsand and he's doing really,
really well and she's justtrying to work on herself right
now.
And you know we've got a lot ofregulars that show up but
(08:40):
they've already kind of beenthrough that front-end process
and they've been able to providesome great feedback to the
families that.
You know we can just kind ofsit back and let other families
talk sometimes because they'rethey've got that perspective of,
yeah, my son was there and mydaughter was there, and you know
, here, here's how I'm handlingit, and they, they get, they get
that feedback.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Our best group meetings, I think, are when the
families are engaged with eachother and not us lecturing or
taking up all the time fillingspace talking.
It's when the families takeover and are supportive of one
another and, just like you said,there's ones that have been a
little further down the road andwere able to give some good
(09:23):
feedback.
Yes, you know it works.
Family support groups work.
And we're asking you knowyou're asking your loved one to
basically stop breathing air.
When you're asking them to putdown drugs and alcohol, that's
what it's like to them is just,you know, asking them to stop
breathing.
Then you're asking them to gooff to a strange place and do
(09:46):
all of this work, engage in 12steps, go to treatment with a
bunch of strangers.
You're asking a lot of yourloved one that they need to do,
rightfully.
So you're asking your loved onethese things and expecting them
to do this and embrace this andtake it on full steam, but you
won't go to a support groupyourself.
(10:07):
You're unwilling to do the workyourself.
You're unwilling to do the workthat you need to do.
It's pretty selfish, actuallyquite selfish, and it's
unrealistic.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, and that takes us right to the topic that we
wanted to talk about on today'sepisode, and so you know what
we're talking about families,maybe not necessarily embracing
the solution in the same waythat we're asking their loved
ones to do.
You know, I think both of us inthe last week or two have had
some experiences where we'veidentified in the families that
(10:41):
we're working with that theirloved ones really aren't the
ones that who need the mostimmediate help and, and even
though they're the ones inactive addiction, it's not even
time to address that until weaddress some of the behaviors
within the family.
What are you finding on yourend?
What are some of theexperiences that you've had this
week or in the last couple ofweeks that have kind of brought
this to the forefront for you?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
kind of brought this to the forefront for you.
Well, it's the years of doingthis, but more recently, this
person that OD'd twice within aweek and got a DUI and among the
(11:25):
family dynamic like he needs tobe somewhere safe.
They need to be somewheregetting some work done.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
three days ago, four days ago.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
But the most critical piece in my eyes at this moment
is one of the parents, becausethey're in some serious delusion
and they seem to think based onno experiences, based on no
experience, based on noknowledge, based on nothing but
a feeling that drove a thought,and that feeling is fear and
(11:54):
it's self-centered fear.
On top of that, it's allself-centered fear Says that,
well, you know he may, can doIOP, they may, can do IOP, may
go to a 12 step meeting.
They've agreed to that.
Go to a 12 step meeting twice aweek.
I'm like you almost lost your,you almost lost your loved one.
(12:18):
Like twice in a week, twice, um, and they got some legal
trouble.
Like, do you have an experiencethat shows you that what you're
saying is so it's important togo by what are your experiences
show you, rather than what yourhead is telling you.
And I'm seeing far and wideacross the board here.
(12:40):
Everybody's operating on whattheir head is telling them,
based instead of what theirexperience has been showing them
.
And I see a lot of you know Isee this all over social media.
Well, I just keep praying formy loved one.
I just keep praying.
That's giving you an out of theaction.
You know you're giving it up toGod and you're saying I'm just
praying.
(13:00):
It's, you know, I'll be willingto pray.
That's the action I'm willingto take, you know, is just say
some prayers.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It's time to put some legs to those prayers.
And the common denominator, andwhat I hear you explaining and
what I've been experiencingespecially recently is is fear.
The family doesn't want toconfront their own fear around
the relationship, around thereaction that the person is
going to have.
(13:31):
Speaking to that, excuse me, Italked with a family on Monday
on intervention, on call.
They have a 16 year old and,you know, in most States
somebody who's a minor is is notgiven the same ability to
choose as an adult, Althoughhere in the Pacific Northwest,
(13:54):
in both Washington and Oregon,the legal age of consent for
medical is 14 years old, and sofrom the time that they're 14
years old they get to make theirown medical choices, which
means mom and dad have zeroinfluence.
They they can't go into amedical appointment with their,
their child, unless the childsigns a HIPAA release and gives
them consent.
They can't get in.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Who show me the individual or group of
individuals that came up withthat idea or were presented with
that idea, and theycollectively there's a group of
people out here thatcollectively shook their head,
yes, and said, oh yeah, you knowwhat?
I think that may be a good idea.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Look no further than the webpage for the Oregon state
legislature and the Washingtonstate legislature and the office
of the governor, who ultimatelysigned off on that brilliant
idea.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I didn't mean to get off on another tangent because
you were in the middle of astory.
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But it kind of goes to the heart of this is that
they're giving young adults theprivileges of adulthood without
the responsibilities ofadulthood, and there's a problem
in that.
I think that that that falls onthe parents to be able to help
a child navigate those, thoseprivileges and the
(15:13):
responsibilities that areassociated with it.
Because, you know, one of thethings that I hear so often is I
have the right.
I have the right to privacy.
You're not going to come in myroom, you're not going to look
at my phone, you're not going to, and and you know when, when
parents are going onto socialmedia and seeing what they're
going through their kids' phones, it's like I have the right.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Okay, when you take your ass out there and get a job
and provide your own phone andyou make a mortgage payment on
this house and you providegroceries into this house and
the clothes that are on yourback and the shoes that are on
your feet and you're fullyself-supporting financially
based on your own contributions,then you've got some right,
(15:55):
right, right.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
But but that's young people today, some, some young
people.
I'm not going to painteverybody in the same brush, but
but Grandpa over here talkingabout.
These damn young people today.
I tell you what.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
All of them, all of them.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I tell you what all of them, all of them, every
single damn one.
Get off my lawn but but you know, because we work with a
population that tends to be alittle bit less agreeable than
than most when it comes to totaking feedback and taking
responsibility, you know, we, we, we wrestle for that control
any way we can get it.
And I think when people want toclaim some rights but don't
(16:35):
want to claim the responsibilitythat's associated with those
rights, we get what we get.
Here in the Pacific Northwestyou get an open air fentanyl
market in downtown Portlandwhere it's like, hey, we're
going to decriminalizeeverything, which honestly is a
(16:57):
good idea.
I was in favor ofdecriminalization.
I'm not trying to get off on apolitical tangent here either,
but making a you know, a diseaseof addiction criminal is not
the way to go about it.
There's prohibition has neversolved anything.
It's never stemmed the war ondrugs, it's never given us an
advantage in the war on drugs.
It's only made things worse.
But when you don't have theinfrastructure, like the whole
(17:19):
thing about here in Oregon whenthey decriminalized everything,
is that if you get caught inpossession of a certain amount
of substance, as long as thosesubstances are on the schedule
of substances that they're goingto do this for, you either have
to pay a $100 ticket or you canchoose to go get an evaluation
for drug and alcohol treatment.
Now, in theory, that soundsgreat.
(17:42):
Now, if you get caught twice,there's no more $100 ticket,
you're going to get theevaluation.
I called the Oregon departmentof health two years ago or no
year and a half ago and I hadasked them like hey, I know that
you guys are probably well onyour way to getting this
established, but I'd love to beinvolved in training some of the
people who are doing theseassessments so that we can teach
(18:04):
them on on how to get thefamily involved and how to
really get the support systeminvolved, instead of just making
this a one-on-one interviewwith somebody who's compromised,
who may not be giving youaccurate information.
And the guy at the OregonDepartment of Health was very
honest with me.
He said you know what?
We don't have anybody doingassessments.
Yet this law had been on thebooks for a year.
(18:25):
People were getting ticketswritten to go and get an
assessment.
You are now obligated by thisdate you have to have an
assessment done.
And there was nobody to do theassessments.
So, anyways, back to the 16year old.
We got off on this politicaltangent but I was going to go
further.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Man, I was.
I was going to talk about thedebate the other night Like we
could have gone off on a spillhere.
Oh, we could, yeah, uh, Ididn't even watch it, honestly,
Like it was.
I was going to talk about thedebate the other night Like we
could have gone off on a spillhere.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Oh, we could.
Yeah, I didn't even watch it,Honestly, Like it was.
It was just one of those thingswhere, like my mind's made up
that I'm not voting for eitherof those turkeys, and so um I I
had no interest in hearing whateither either one of them had to
say.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Well, I can tell you that they spent more time
worried about who can carry whatgolf bag and how far they can
drive and what the handicap ison the golf course, than they
did addressing the questionsthat were brought before them
around the addiction crisis thatis plaguing this land.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, it sounds like the moderator is doing a
fantastic job.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
They did, the moderators did good, oh really.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, even though they went off on those tangents,
Well, they, they muted them.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
They, you know you had an opportunity to answer the
question.
They muted the other guy butyeah, I mean, it was their time
to talk, so they got to talk andthey talked about the golf.
They spent more energy, moreenergy, put more enthusiasm into
that than they did of thisplague, and this is why neither
one of those guys is getting myvote, and that's all I'll say
about that.
Man, you know, there's a guythat's 40 years sober that
(19:57):
implements the 12 steps into hislife every day.
There's only one guy out of thethree that you hear a lot about
.
He wasn't up there.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
And I'm not saying who I'm voting for, right, I'm
not saying, I'm just saying Iliked one of those fellows up
(20:44):
there more than the than theother, but I wasn't impressed by
either one of them.
And there's one that is runningthe 12 steps in his life and
out of those three he's the onlyone that has visited a
treatment center the only one.
And you know, I know that mylife was transformed out of from
the 12 steps, right Out of agutter, and I the the interview
on the Sean Ryan show with withKennedy.
He gave a really good interviewand actually talks very openly
about his addiction and how hegot into recovery in that
interview.
So we'll we'll give a plug toSean Ryan's podcast, but that
that was a good interview.
I liked it.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yeah, it was, I watched that.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
So, anyways, back to the 16-year-old.
So I'm talking to this familyand it's very clear to me that
they are really seeing thecrisis for what it is.
This young man has been in theemergency room three times in
the last two months for alcoholpoisoning, for cough syrup
(21:27):
overdoses.
He was delusional andhallucinating because he had
drank too much cough syrupoverdoses.
Like he's, he was delusionaland hallucinating because he had
drank too much cough syrup.
Um, with the intention of, youknow, trying to get high.
Um, he's going to the grocerystore and shoplifting booze, um,
and and anytime the familywants to talk to him about
getting some help, he eruptsjust a violent, not physically
(21:50):
violent, but verbally.
Just lets them have it, won'tlet them speak.
He screams them down and youknow they're on the phone or on
the video with me going okay.
So how do we address this?
And, and the first thing I saidis why are you afraid of your,
of a 16 year old son?
What's going on here, what'sgoing on with you guys, that
(22:11):
you're so afraid of his reaction?
You know, in a very literal way, they were being held hostage
by their child and he knew it.
He knew exactly because he'sgot a brother living there in
the house with him, an olderbrother, and he'll joke around
with his brother Like I got momand dad wrapped, they I can get
(22:33):
away with anything here, andhe's going back to his mom and
dad.
The older brother is going guys, he knows he's doing this to
you.
What's what's going on?
And as I'm talking to them,just really trying to help them
understand, like, guys, you havemore authority as parents than
you're allowing yourself to haveand and as soon as you allow
(22:55):
this fear to to to evaporate,all of this problem loses its
control in your home.
The minute you stop beingafraid of it.
When you can with love, whenyou can approach your son and
say I love you too much to letyou talk to me like this, I love
you too much to let you avoidthis conversation with me.
When you're ready to have thisconversation, I'm happy to turn
(23:19):
your phone back on.
I'm happy to give you thePlayStation back.
I'm happy, like all of thisstuff needs to go away.
And they were so reluctant to doit.
You know, at the end of thatconversation they were like so
can, can you know?
A lot of what you're sayingsounds really good.
Can you can?
Can you just come have thisconversation with him?
(23:42):
And I said you know I can, butyou're not ready for for what
comes next.
Because if what comes next, ifI'm going to come in and do an
intervention, what comes next issome action, and that action
doesn't mean anything unlessyou're behind it.
If there's boundaries that needto be put in place.
If those boundaries aren't yourboundaries, they don't mean
(24:03):
anything.
Because if I get up and walkout of the house, the things
that are wrong are going to goright back to being wrong.
They might be right for an hour, we might get his attention for
an hour or two hours or fivehours, but at the end of that
conversation, if he knows Ireally don't have to make a
change here, because I know atthe end of the day, as soon as
this jackass is out of my livingroom, I can go back to running
the show there's not going to beanything that changes.
(24:25):
And so this is the part that Ithink when I no-transcript sure
(25:00):
how to handle the conflict whenit, when it happens and that's
what he uses to control thedynamic is immediately, that's
his go-to move.
Is I'm going to fight with you?
The dynamic is immediately.
That's his go-to move.
Is I'm going to fight with youPhysically?
No, no, no, he's, he's, I don'tthink he's.
(25:21):
I think that we're, culturallythey.
They come from a differentculture and I think that that
culturally, there were somethings there that may have
gotten in the way that I don'tquite understand.
I I tried to understand them asbest I could, but I think
culturally there was a littlebit of a barrier there as well.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
The only shot we've got at stemming the tide of this
mess that we're in with all theoverdose deaths.
Man, I was in the house theother night and Cody, my
youngest son, he said hey man,you remember?
I didn't say hey man, he saidhey, dad, you remember such and
(25:55):
such?
I was like, yeah man, yeah,it's like he od'd last night.
He didn't say he died, but so Iwas like, well damn, is he okay
?
Is he gonna be all right?
Is he gonna pull out of it?
He's like dad, he okay, is hegoing to be all right?
Is he going to pull out of it?
He's like dad, he's dead.
Like he OD'd, he died.
This little boy used to playfootball with Cody and come over
(26:19):
to the house, spend the nightall the time.
You know, he's an adorablelittle guy.
I hadn't seen him in years, buthe began to struggle and
checked out.
So you know, and that'shappening everywhere, all over
the place, and the only way Isee out of it is the families.
They just they have to.
They have to change.
The families have to beeducated, they have to.
If there was something going onwith my son, I would be on
(26:41):
youtube and google and readingand doing everything I can to,
at least even before.
If I'm too afraid to takeaction, at least I'm going to
educate myself on exactly whatis going on.
What is going on?
What can I do?
What do I need to do?
I'm just not seeing it.
Every interventionist, everycoach, everyone that is in our
(27:04):
space, should be so freakingbusy 10 hours a day, 12 hours a
day, that we can't do it.
All of the people saying, hey,what do I do, how do we do this,
what do we do?
And they're not.
They had a guy well, I had afamily, a guy.
A family like this individualhas lost limbs like lost limbs.
(27:25):
Lost limbs Like lost limbs.
No limb Can't point Right,can't even point to the problem
because of his actions.
And that's the best this guycan bring to the table, that's
the best he can muster, giventhe condition that he's in
emotionally and mentally at thispoint.
And they want to just, theywant to get his.
(27:46):
You know, just want to talk.
You know just want to talk.
I was like man, they want toget his.
You know, this one talk, thisone talk, I was like man they
don't get like.
And it's not rocket science,dude.
It's not rocket science.
If it was rocket science, Icouldn't do it.
And look, you're a much smarterman than I am, much more
intelligent guy than I am.
If it was rocket science, youcouldn't do it.
(28:08):
But it's really quite simple.
Your loved one is insane.
Just call it what it is.
It's a level of insanity.
And even I see professionalsfalling into that trap with
letters behind their name.
So long you need like three orfour business cards.
So many letters behind theirname fall into that trap.
(28:30):
Well, they need to be presentedwith such and such and they
need to be be uh, told of thisand that, and we can, you know.
And then we gotta leave it upto them.
Dude, they're fucking insaneman and the most insane thing
they do, they do sober.
It's that simple.
It's that simple.
They can return to sanity andthat's why I'm so open about
(28:51):
calling them insane.
It's like I know you can returnto sanity, I know, but why in
the hell are you sitting aroundwaiting on the insanity of your
loved one to just go away andthey just rouse themselves from
their lethargy and assert theirpower of will, as the literature
(29:12):
says right.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Well, it's that fear.
It's that fear of number onenot knowing how to have that
conversation in a way thatdoesn't invite conflict, or that
you know how to handle thatwhen it comes up.
But the other thing is just thefear of what if they get mad at
(29:34):
me?
What if they stop talking to me?
What if I create a separationthat can't be repaired later on.
That's the fear that I run into.
More than anything.
That keeps people stuck is Idon't want to hurt their
feelings and when I talk tofamilies it's like the feelings
(29:57):
that people have are the mostflexible part of this entire
equation.
You know, feelings are neverpermanent, ever.
You know I could be offeredsomething that I really don't
want one day.
And then I go and I have adifferent experience and all of
a sudden that that opportunitylooks a't want one day.
And then I go and I have adifferent experience and all of
(30:17):
a sudden that that opportunitylooks a little bit more
attractive.
Or how many times have you andI been in interventions where
something happened just days orweeks before the intervention,
where all of a sudden thatperson is now going to be more
open and receptive because ofthat experience?
I think families are areoftentimes looking at what are
they willing to do versus whatdo they need to do, and not that
(30:42):
we ever want to present this tosomebody saying you need to do
this, but the needs are going tostay pretty constant.
My needs, if I'm in activeaddiction, my needs are not
going to change from one day tothe next.
My feelings will.
I mean, that's what's out ofcontrol in the first place, is
how I feel and my inability todeal with it.
You know, and and.
(31:03):
So when families get stuck inthis idea of, but they're going
to feel bad, they're going tofeel ambushed, they're going to
feel, you know, criticized there, you know, whatever that is
it's like, okay, but the netresult could be that their life
gets saved and they go on andthey actually learn how to
manage the things that areunmanageable to them right now,
and they get to go out and havea wonderful life and they thank
(31:24):
you for it.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I had a lady today that she was like well, man, I
don't even know where to lookTreatment, I don't know what
he's willing to do, treatmentLike I don't know what he's
willing to do.
I said, well, hold up, let'sset him to the side right now.
Set him completely to the side,because you haven't even
approached him and you'realready in negotiations with his
(31:47):
illness.
You haven't even.
You haven't even.
You're not even in the samehouse right now.
You're not even in the sametown, you're in a different town
.
He came to him and you'realready starting to negotiate
with the elements.
It's like you find a place thatyou feel is would be the best
fit for your loved one.
You ask a lot of questions.
(32:09):
I gave her the questions Iasked, I said, and set him to
the side, pretend he can't feelright now.
All he can do is sit there andlisten.
That's it.
That's all he can do.
He can't respond, he can't doanything.
Set him aside.
That's dangerous.
It's very dangerous.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, yeah it is and you and I deal with this all the
time where families kind of getinto this game of mental chess
where they're trying to think,two and three and four moves
ahead, well, if I do this, thenthey're going to say this, and
so I'm going to have to approachit this way, and then they're
going to do this, and so I'mgoing to have to do this, and
then this is going to happen,and all of a sudden it's like,
well, I'm never going to be ableto do this.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Because they're thinking 10 steps down the
really should be happening rightnow.
How do I take this step or whodo I need?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
to get involved so that I can get this, this
accomplished.
Yeah, large part of what we dois slowing them down, didn't it
Matt?
You know, would you agree?
Large part of this process thatwe do is keeping them step by
step.
I get in too far, I'll be onthe phone, and you know they
they've hired me to do anintervention, or or know they've
hired me to do an intervention,or even before they've hired me
to do an intervention, and thentalking about well, what are we
(33:21):
going to do when he gets out oftreatment?
Yeah, listen, we're not thereyet.
You know, I love yourenthusiasm, but let's slow down
a little bit, step by step.
I got this family that you knowthey book a session and it's
like all right, you're marchingorders, I don't say that, but
(33:41):
you're like this is all you dofor right now.
This is your next step.
Let's do this, because they'llget carried away, and I get it.
I mean, it's all fear driven.
I even like to ask families allright, let's explore this fear.
He's going to be mad at me.
I even like to ask families allright, let's explore this fear.
He's going to be mad at me.
She's going to be mad at me,they're going to hate me.
Okay, if I say this, thenthey're going to do that.
(34:05):
I'm like, well, let's say theydo that.
What happens?
What happens Then what it'salways a famous one for me is
like the then what, then what?
Let's go all the way with it.
Then what?
It fizzles out.
It's like there's no ending, itjust fizzles.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
And it's just human nature.
We want to envision what theworst case scenario is so that
we're not crushed if it happens.
But those worst case scenariosare very, very rare.
But those worst case scenariosare very, very rare because the
(34:46):
person that we are reallywanting to find, that wonderful,
loving, kind, generous, funnyperson is still in there.
No-transcript, and you deserveto be happy.
(35:07):
And if you're done beingmiserable man, we've got a plan
that I think you're actuallygoing to be pretty happy with.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Your addiction is not going to be happy with it, but
you might be.
Yeah, I read a post from a guyHunter Shepard, I think, is his
name.
He's a creator on Facebook andhe wrote a post about his last
day.
He said he was in a car with abunch of other people that did
not want to be there but theyhad nowhere else to go.
He was absolutely miserable.
He had his last little bit ofdope and he spilled that and he
(35:48):
said he had scabs all over him,wasn't eating, couldn't think
straight and he was not going togo to someone and say, hey, I
need help.
Now.
I remember being in that place.
I remember being at the end ofa dead end road, smoking crack
and thinking my heart's going toblow up or eating too many
(36:08):
pills, and feeling like you'regoing to fade away, you know,
and I'm scared to go to sleep,you know.
And away, you know, and I'mscared to go to sleep, you know.
And and like just absolutemisery, wandering around in the
woods at three o'clock in themorning, not knowing where I am
or what I was doing, and justfeeling completely lost and
alone and and knowing that I waslosing my mind and still would
(36:30):
not go to the door to the familyand say, hey, you know what?
I think I'm ready to get.
Well, now it just us.
It's that way.
We need the family to take thereins.
We've got to have the familytake the reins.
And by taking the reins, itdoesn't mean you tell them what
they need to do.
It doesn't mean you tell themwhat they should do.
It means that you educateyourself and get ready for
(36:51):
battle.
You get trained for battle.
You get trained for thisjourney.
You get trained for thisjourney.
You get prepped, you get ready.
Just don't wing it.
I'm seeing a lot of folkswinging it.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Well, excuse me, gosh , my voice keeps cracking.
Trust me, I am older than 13.
You talked earlier aboutfamilies who don't get educated.
I would rather a family go ontoYouTube and Google and learn as
much as they can about whattheir person's going through,
even if the sources aren'tcredible and if the
(37:27):
information's not great.
I would much rather have afamily who comes to me with some
ideas that may need to bechanged, versus somebody coming
and saying I, I know I need todo something, but I don't know
what to do and and, furthermore,I don't know if I'm willing to
do it.
They don't usually say that, butthey'll.
They'll show us that in intheir inability to take action
(37:49):
and and it's, it's tough.
It's tough and I know westarted out talking about, you
know, the possibility ofstepping on people's toes today,
and I hope it hasn't been asbad as maybe I painted it out to
be.
But if we've hurt your feelingstoday, as we've been talking
about this, I hope you'velistened to this in the spirit
(38:11):
of you know we want you to lookat this from a different point
of view.
You know we're not in thebusiness of hurting people's
feelings.
We're in the business ofchanging people's minds.
I mean, I joke around sometimeswith people that you know I'm.
I professionally get paid to getpeople to do things they don't
want to do.
You know, and and I say itjokingly, but the reality is is
(38:34):
like that starts with the family.
Like they know there's aproblem.
I'm going to ask you to dothings you don't want to do, but
it's because I want to help andand and if, if families can
realize like I'm going to dothings that are uncomfortable
but the end result may be thatmy loved one lives and is happy.
(38:57):
All the other stuff, all thefeelings that people are worried
about, those get repaired.
Mistakes get made on both sides.
Amends need to be made on bothsides, but that's the easy part.
You can't make an amends tosomebody who's passed.
Yeah, and you don't want to bein the position of I wish, I
(39:19):
woulda, I wish I woulda yeahyeah, it reminds me of a family
that last year I it was a localfamily here in oregon, I it's.
They were close enough that Icould actually go and meet with
them in person before we did anyintervention work and I sat
down with them and in that, aswe're sitting there in the
coffee shop talking, theydecided, okay, we're going to,
(39:39):
we're going to do this.
And this young man had beenstruggling for 10 years.
10 years They'd been watchingthe slow decline into what
ultimately ended up being afentanyl addiction.
They decided they were going todo something about it.
They went home and found him,found him passed.
He was dead, you know.
(40:12):
And and it's easy to look atthat and say, oh well, you know,
there's always a reason that weget stuck, yeah, but, but, man,
you're right.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Those regrets, some of them you know, I see it,
people, I remember you tellingme about that one.
That was tough, that was atough one.
Yeah, matt, this has been agood show.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, I hope it's been good for the people that
have that have listened to it.
I've, I've enjoyed talkingabout it.
I know something sometimes wehave to talk about hard things,
but, um, hopefully by the nextone my voice sounds a little bit
more normal.
And and uh, yeah, thank youeverybody for tuning in and, if
you've made it this far, thanksfor for listening to my raspy
voice this whole time.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
And and uh, we'll see you on the next one.
Yeah, if you're interested inthe family support group, go to
interventiononcallcom.
Sit there for about fiveseconds.
A pop-up is going to pop upwhere you can register.
You'll get a Zoom link.
You can talk if you want to Bequiet, if you want to Show your
face or not.
It's completely up to you.
You are in control.
It's a safe place for you tolisten, learn and share.
(41:15):
And don't forget to follow usall on our social channels.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
And we'll see you again next week.
Yeah, and I'll put the link forthe family page on the IOC
website.
I'll put that in the show notesif people want to just go in
there and click on it.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Hey is our YouTubes and stuffon.
There Is our stuff on thewebsite.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Not yet.
We're working on getting thevideos of our podcast episodes
up on the website.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Okay, all right, all right.
Well, happy treason daytomorrow.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Absolutely Happy 4th of July everybody.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(42:14):
don't enable addiction ever.
And remember don't enableaddiction ever.
On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Let's talk again soon.
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
professional interventionistsMatt Brown and Sam Davis.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism and are
reluctant to get the help thatthey need.
We hope to educate andentertain you while removing the
(00:25):
fear from the conversation.
Stay with us and we'll get youthrough it.
Please welcome the partywreckers, matt Brown and Sam
Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome back everyone .
I apologize for my raspy voice.
I'm getting over one of thosesummertime colds and, for
whatever reason, every time theweather changes my voice tends
to go if it sounds like I'm inpuberty again.
So 51-year-old man with a voiceof a 13-year-old today, so
hopefully it doesn't distractpeople too much, sam, you doing
(01:03):
you know, I'm not in pubertyanymore that's good, I've missed
the summer, cold, glad to hearglad to glad of that.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Sorry you're not feeling well, man, but you sound
good.
Sound kind of got a little wolfman jack going on or wolf gang,
wolf gang jack yeah, hey, howy'all doing today.
Sounds exactly like it, exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I can do an impression or two.
Not that that's one that I'vereally like had to go, you know,
keep on the forefront of mymind, but when you said the name
I remembered I could sound alittle bit like it.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
No, you pulled it right out, man, you really did
Like, just on a snap.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, I feel great, like I don't feel badly anymore.
It's just my voice that'strying to catch up with the rest
of my body.
A lot of people would say thatwas sexy.
Well, I mean, hey, I'm notgoing to deny them that if
that's what they want to say.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
There's going to be a lot of people out here that
like that.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
So just roll.
Well then, let me add a littlebass to my voice and let's sit
down and talk.
Okay, let me add a little bassto my voice and let's sit down
and talk.
Yeah, I can't do Barry White,oh, barry White, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Who's Barry Robinson?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I don't even know who he is.
I don't know.
He's probably somebody famousthat you know better than I do.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
It works, though.
I got your reference.
I'm just flopping things allaround here today, that's all
right, that's all right.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, guys, before we jump into the meat and potatoes
of what we're going to talkabout today, I want to preface
what we're going to say.
If you are a family with aloved one or a family member of
a loved one who's strugglingwith addiction, you will
probably get your toes steppedon today with what we're going
to talk about.
It's not maliciousno-transcript on Intervention On
(03:15):
Call.
Every Thursday night for thelast I don't know six months, we
started doing this back inJanuary.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, it was your brainchild back in January.
Yeah, we launched it.
It was actually before January,around the holidays, when you
started this and it's a freefamily support group virtually
for any families that just needsome coaching or some support
from other family members andfrom the folks that run it.
We keep it solution-basedbecause, just like the rooms of
(03:44):
AA, na, ca and all these 12-stepfellowships, some meetings can
be hit or miss.
Some pockets of the country arestronger than other ones in the
solution A lot of them.
You can go to some meetings andthere'll be some watered-down
middle-of-the-road stuff aboutjust don't drink, no matter what
.
Some of the Al-Anon can appearas that they're just griping
about their loved one and theydon't seem to be in a solution.
(04:07):
So I had that with severalfamilies that I worked with over
the last several months,especially just one.
Right after the other wassaying well, I've been to
Al-Anon.
It just seemed like a excuse,my language, a bitch fest.
They just seem stuck in aproblem.
I'm like yeah, well, you know,you got enough alinomy, you'll
(04:30):
find a good one, you got to findyour tribe, but that's not very
helpful when you're you knowyou're desperate and you need
some solution.
You know like you neededsolution.
Lack of power is your dilemmaand you needed it yesterday.
Bouncing around from meeting tomeeting can be frustrating.
People can lose steam.
So you had this idea of let'sput a virtual family support
group together and we use oursocial media outlets to promote
it and let people know about it,and they get on on Zoom at 8
(04:55):
o'clock on Thursday eveningEastern time, and sometimes,
well, we have 8.
Sometimes we have 14.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, we've had some, some meetings with, you know,
close to 20.
Um, it's been nice.
When the the meetings are arebigger, uh, just because more
people get to participate, Ithink we can help more people.
But even for those that don'twant to talk, just to listen to
some of the feedback we givefamilies on their current
situation, can be helpful tothose that just want to listen
(05:23):
and uh, and we've got someregulars that come back every
single week and we've got somenew people now joining us every
week and I think for thosefamilies that number one hey, I
don't know if I need anintervention.
I don't know if I want to workwith an interventionist.
I've heard some pretty negativethings about intervention and
I'm not sure if this issomething I want to.
You know, people are telling methat it's something I ought to
(05:43):
look into, but I'm not so sure.
Come and talk with aninterventionist for free on
Thursday nights and we willtreat this just as best we can
as far as you know, giving youdirect solutions for direct
problems.
And, like Sam says, we try tokeep it solution based and you
know, we want to make sure thatif people are going to give us
an hour of their time on aThursday night, that we're going
to give them everything we got.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
And I think we do that.
We'll have several providersthat'll be on there at the same
time and mix it up a little bit.
We do keep it solution-based.
It keeps things on track.
You know a lot of families andit's not even if they're not
even considering an interventionor not at that point yet, or
even or even if they've alreadydone one and their loved ones in
(06:26):
treatment.
It is good to have some supportto where you don't feel like
you're alone.
Yeah, cause we can have somecrazy thoughts, some crazy ideas
and to be able to hear somebodyexpress you know that they're
going through the same thing andhaving the same thoughts.
It's, it's comforting.
You know, last week, man, I wasso full of anxiety and just,
(06:46):
man, it just came out of nowhereand I'm usually not a guy with
anxiety and it just came out ofnowhere that day and I just
wanted to crawl in the bed andpull the covers up over my head
and escape.
And I made the decision thatwhenever I talked to someone
that day, I was going to tellthem when they say hey, what are
you up to?
How are you?
I was honest.
I'm like man, honestly, I'mfull of anxiety.
I like to crawl into bed hasthat ever happened to you?
(07:07):
And they're like oh yeah, ithappens to me.
Yeah, it just happened to methe other day.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I talked to you about it, you sure did.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
You shared it with me .
It happens to you.
Everyone around me is losingtheir mind along with me.
Or I'm normal, you know it'snothing to.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Well, and not just to hear that it's happening to
other people, but to get somefeedback on okay, well, if this
is happening to you, how do youdeal with it?
I mean, that was the nextquestion you asked me.
Is, once we found out that wewere more more alike than you
realized, like, okay, what doyou do about it?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, you know it's.
I have been on the familysupport groups now, like you
said, we've been doing them awhile and have seen the growth
(08:00):
of some of these families andthat's you know.
I can see the results in them.
If I miss a couple of familygroups, you know from work or
family or whatever whateverreason, and I come back, plug
back in like I can see thegrowth in these families and
these individuals, you know fromthe two weeks prior.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
And the ones that are regulars, the ones that we're
seeing that growth, are the ones, typically, whose loved ones.
There's a couple of them whohave loved ones who are in
treatment currently.
There's one that that has a sonwho's who's been out of
treatment now for several monthsand and he's doing really,
really well and she's justtrying to work on herself right
now.
And you know we've got a lot ofregulars that show up but
(08:40):
they've already kind of beenthrough that front-end process
and they've been able to providesome great feedback to the
families that.
You know we can just kind ofsit back and let other families
talk sometimes because they'rethey've got that perspective of,
yeah, my son was there and mydaughter was there, and you know
, here, here's how I'm handlingit, and they, they get, they get
that feedback.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Our best group meetings, I think, are when the
families are engaged with eachother and not us lecturing or
taking up all the time fillingspace talking.
It's when the families takeover and are supportive of one
another and, just like you said,there's ones that have been a
little further down the road andwere able to give some good
(09:23):
feedback.
Yes, you know it works.
Family support groups work.
And we're asking you knowyou're asking your loved one to
basically stop breathing air.
When you're asking them to putdown drugs and alcohol, that's
what it's like to them is just,you know, asking them to stop
breathing.
Then you're asking them to gooff to a strange place and do
(09:46):
all of this work, engage in 12steps, go to treatment with a
bunch of strangers.
You're asking a lot of yourloved one that they need to do,
rightfully.
So you're asking your loved onethese things and expecting them
to do this and embrace this andtake it on full steam, but you
won't go to a support groupyourself.
(10:07):
You're unwilling to do the workyourself.
You're unwilling to do the workthat you need to do.
It's pretty selfish, actuallyquite selfish, and it's
unrealistic.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, and that takes us right to the topic that we
wanted to talk about on today'sepisode, and so you know what
we're talking about families,maybe not necessarily embracing
the solution in the same waythat we're asking their loved
ones to do.
You know, I think both of us inthe last week or two have had
some experiences where we'veidentified in the families that
(10:41):
we're working with that theirloved ones really aren't the
ones that who need the mostimmediate help and, and even
though they're the ones inactive addiction, it's not even
time to address that until weaddress some of the behaviors
within the family.
What are you finding on yourend?
What are some of theexperiences that you've had this
week or in the last couple ofweeks that have kind of brought
this to the forefront for you?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
kind of brought this to the forefront for you.
Well, it's the years of doingthis, but more recently, this
person that OD'd twice within aweek and got a DUI and among the
(11:25):
family dynamic like he needs tobe somewhere safe.
They need to be somewheregetting some work done.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
three days ago, four days ago.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
But the most critical piece in my eyes at this moment
is one of the parents, becausethey're in some serious delusion
and they seem to think based onno experiences, based on no
experience, based on noknowledge, based on nothing but
a feeling that drove a thought,and that feeling is fear and
(11:54):
it's self-centered fear.
On top of that, it's allself-centered fear Says that,
well, you know he may, can doIOP, they may, can do IOP, may
go to a 12 step meeting.
They've agreed to that.
Go to a 12 step meeting twice aweek.
I'm like you almost lost your,you almost lost your loved one.
(12:18):
Like twice in a week, twice, um, and they got some legal
trouble.
Like, do you have an experiencethat shows you that what you're
saying is so it's important togo by what are your experiences
show you, rather than what yourhead is telling you.
And I'm seeing far and wideacross the board here.
(12:40):
Everybody's operating on whattheir head is telling them,
based instead of what theirexperience has been showing them
.
And I see a lot of you know Isee this all over social media.
Well, I just keep praying formy loved one.
I just keep praying.
That's giving you an out of theaction.
You know you're giving it up toGod and you're saying I'm just
praying.
(13:00):
It's, you know, I'll be willingto pray.
That's the action I'm willingto take, you know, is just say
some prayers.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It's time to put some legs to those prayers.
And the common denominator, andwhat I hear you explaining and
what I've been experiencingespecially recently is is fear.
The family doesn't want toconfront their own fear around
the relationship, around thereaction that the person is
going to have.
(13:31):
Speaking to that, excuse me, Italked with a family on Monday
on intervention, on call.
They have a 16 year old and,you know, in most States
somebody who's a minor is is notgiven the same ability to
choose as an adult, Althoughhere in the Pacific Northwest,
(13:54):
in both Washington and Oregon,the legal age of consent for
medical is 14 years old, and sofrom the time that they're 14
years old they get to make theirown medical choices, which
means mom and dad have zeroinfluence.
They they can't go into amedical appointment with their,
their child, unless the childsigns a HIPAA release and gives
them consent.
They can't get in.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Who show me the individual or group of
individuals that came up withthat idea or were presented with
that idea, and theycollectively there's a group of
people out here thatcollectively shook their head,
yes, and said, oh yeah, you knowwhat?
I think that may be a good idea.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Look no further than the webpage for the Oregon state
legislature and the Washingtonstate legislature and the office
of the governor, who ultimatelysigned off on that brilliant
idea.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I didn't mean to get off on another tangent because
you were in the middle of astory.
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But it kind of goes to the heart of this is that
they're giving young adults theprivileges of adulthood without
the responsibilities ofadulthood, and there's a problem
in that.
I think that that that falls onthe parents to be able to help
a child navigate those, thoseprivileges and the
(15:13):
responsibilities that areassociated with it.
Because, you know, one of thethings that I hear so often is I
have the right.
I have the right to privacy.
You're not going to come in myroom, you're not going to look
at my phone, you're not going to, and and you know when, when
parents are going onto socialmedia and seeing what they're
going through their kids' phones, it's like I have the right.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Okay, when you take your ass out there and get a job
and provide your own phone andyou make a mortgage payment on
this house and you providegroceries into this house and
the clothes that are on yourback and the shoes that are on
your feet and you're fullyself-supporting financially
based on your own contributions,then you've got some right,
(15:55):
right, right.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
But but that's young people today, some, some young
people.
I'm not going to painteverybody in the same brush, but
but Grandpa over here talkingabout.
These damn young people today.
I tell you what.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
All of them, all of them.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I tell you what all of them, all of them, every
single damn one.
Get off my lawn but but you know, because we work with a
population that tends to be alittle bit less agreeable than
than most when it comes to totaking feedback and taking
responsibility, you know, we, we, we wrestle for that control
any way we can get it.
And I think when people want toclaim some rights but don't
(16:35):
want to claim the responsibilitythat's associated with those
rights, we get what we get.
Here in the Pacific Northwestyou get an open air fentanyl
market in downtown Portlandwhere it's like, hey, we're
going to decriminalizeeverything, which honestly is a
(16:57):
good idea.
I was in favor ofdecriminalization.
I'm not trying to get off on apolitical tangent here either,
but making a you know, a diseaseof addiction criminal is not
the way to go about it.
There's prohibition has neversolved anything.
It's never stemmed the war ondrugs, it's never given us an
advantage in the war on drugs.
It's only made things worse.
But when you don't have theinfrastructure, like the whole
(17:19):
thing about here in Oregon whenthey decriminalized everything,
is that if you get caught inpossession of a certain amount
of substance, as long as thosesubstances are on the schedule
of substances that they're goingto do this for, you either have
to pay a $100 ticket or you canchoose to go get an evaluation
for drug and alcohol treatment.
Now, in theory, that soundsgreat.
(17:42):
Now, if you get caught twice,there's no more $100 ticket,
you're going to get theevaluation.
I called the Oregon departmentof health two years ago or no
year and a half ago and I hadasked them like hey, I know that
you guys are probably well onyour way to getting this
established, but I'd love to beinvolved in training some of the
people who are doing theseassessments so that we can teach
(18:04):
them on on how to get thefamily involved and how to
really get the support systeminvolved, instead of just making
this a one-on-one interviewwith somebody who's compromised,
who may not be giving youaccurate information.
And the guy at the OregonDepartment of Health was very
honest with me.
He said you know what?
We don't have anybody doingassessments.
Yet this law had been on thebooks for a year.
(18:25):
People were getting ticketswritten to go and get an
assessment.
You are now obligated by thisdate you have to have an
assessment done.
And there was nobody to do theassessments.
So, anyways, back to the 16year old.
We got off on this politicaltangent but I was going to go
further.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Man, I was.
I was going to talk about thedebate the other night Like we
could have gone off on a spillhere.
Oh, we could, yeah, uh, Ididn't even watch it, honestly,
Like it was.
I was going to talk about thedebate the other night Like we
could have gone off on a spillhere.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Oh, we could.
Yeah, I didn't even watch it,Honestly, Like it was.
It was just one of those thingswhere, like my mind's made up
that I'm not voting for eitherof those turkeys, and so um I I
had no interest in hearing whateither either one of them had to
say.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Well, I can tell you that they spent more time
worried about who can carry whatgolf bag and how far they can
drive and what the handicap ison the golf course, than they
did addressing the questionsthat were brought before them
around the addiction crisis thatis plaguing this land.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, it sounds like the moderator is doing a
fantastic job.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
They did, the moderators did good, oh really.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, even though they went off on those tangents,
Well, they, they muted them.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
They, you know you had an opportunity to answer the
question.
They muted the other guy butyeah, I mean, it was their time
to talk, so they got to talk andthey talked about the golf.
They spent more energy, moreenergy, put more enthusiasm into
that than they did of thisplague, and this is why neither
one of those guys is getting myvote, and that's all I'll say
about that.
Man, you know, there's a guythat's 40 years sober that
(19:57):
implements the 12 steps into hislife every day.
There's only one guy out of thethree that you hear a lot about
.
He wasn't up there.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
And I'm not saying who I'm voting for, right, I'm
not saying, I'm just saying Iliked one of those fellows up
(20:44):
there more than the than theother, but I wasn't impressed by
either one of them.
And there's one that is runningthe 12 steps in his life and
out of those three he's the onlyone that has visited a
treatment center the only one.
And you know, I know that mylife was transformed out of from
the 12 steps, right Out of agutter, and I the the interview
on the Sean Ryan show with withKennedy.
He gave a really good interviewand actually talks very openly
about his addiction and how hegot into recovery in that
interview.
So we'll we'll give a plug toSean Ryan's podcast, but that
that was a good interview.
I liked it.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yeah, it was, I watched that.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
So, anyways, back to the 16-year-old.
So I'm talking to this familyand it's very clear to me that
they are really seeing thecrisis for what it is.
This young man has been in theemergency room three times in
the last two months for alcoholpoisoning, for cough syrup
(21:27):
overdoses.
He was delusional andhallucinating because he had
drank too much cough syrupoverdoses.
Like he's, he was delusionaland hallucinating because he had
drank too much cough syrup.
Um, with the intention of, youknow, trying to get high.
Um, he's going to the grocerystore and shoplifting booze, um,
and and anytime the familywants to talk to him about
getting some help, he eruptsjust a violent, not physically
(21:50):
violent, but verbally.
Just lets them have it, won'tlet them speak.
He screams them down and youknow they're on the phone or on
the video with me going okay.
So how do we address this?
And, and the first thing I saidis why are you afraid of your,
of a 16 year old son?
What's going on here, what'sgoing on with you guys, that
(22:11):
you're so afraid of his reaction?
You know, in a very literal way, they were being held hostage
by their child and he knew it.
He knew exactly because he'sgot a brother living there in
the house with him, an olderbrother, and he'll joke around
with his brother Like I got momand dad wrapped, they I can get
(22:33):
away with anything here, andhe's going back to his mom and
dad.
The older brother is going guys, he knows he's doing this to
you.
What's what's going on?
And as I'm talking to them,just really trying to help them
understand, like, guys, you havemore authority as parents than
you're allowing yourself to haveand and as soon as you allow
(22:55):
this fear to to to evaporate,all of this problem loses its
control in your home.
The minute you stop beingafraid of it.
When you can with love, whenyou can approach your son and
say I love you too much to letyou talk to me like this, I love
you too much to let you avoidthis conversation with me.
When you're ready to have thisconversation, I'm happy to turn
(23:19):
your phone back on.
I'm happy to give you thePlayStation back.
I'm happy, like all of thisstuff needs to go away.
And they were so reluctant to doit.
You know, at the end of thatconversation they were like so
can, can you know?
A lot of what you're sayingsounds really good.
Can you can?
Can you just come have thisconversation with him?
(23:42):
And I said you know I can, butyou're not ready for for what
comes next.
Because if what comes next, ifI'm going to come in and do an
intervention, what comes next issome action, and that action
doesn't mean anything unlessyou're behind it.
If there's boundaries that needto be put in place.
If those boundaries aren't yourboundaries, they don't mean
(24:03):
anything.
Because if I get up and walkout of the house, the things
that are wrong are going to goright back to being wrong.
They might be right for an hour, we might get his attention for
an hour or two hours or fivehours, but at the end of that
conversation, if he knows Ireally don't have to make a
change here, because I know atthe end of the day, as soon as
this jackass is out of my livingroom, I can go back to running
the show there's not going to beanything that changes.
(24:25):
And so this is the part that Ithink when I no-transcript sure
(25:00):
how to handle the conflict whenit, when it happens and that's
what he uses to control thedynamic is immediately, that's
his go-to move.
Is I'm going to fight with you?
The dynamic is immediately.
That's his go-to move.
Is I'm going to fight with youPhysically?
No, no, no, he's, he's, I don'tthink he's.
(25:21):
I think that we're, culturallythey.
They come from a differentculture and I think that that
culturally, there were somethings there that may have
gotten in the way that I don'tquite understand.
I I tried to understand them asbest I could, but I think
culturally there was a littlebit of a barrier there as well.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
The only shot we've got at stemming the tide of this
mess that we're in with all theoverdose deaths.
Man, I was in the house theother night and Cody, my
youngest son, he said hey man,you remember?
I didn't say hey man, he saidhey, dad, you remember such and
(25:55):
such?
I was like, yeah man, yeah,it's like he od'd last night.
He didn't say he died, but so Iwas like, well damn, is he okay
?
Is he gonna be all right?
Is he gonna pull out of it?
He's like dad, he okay, is hegoing to be all right?
Is he going to pull out of it?
He's like dad, he's dead.
Like he OD'd, he died.
This little boy used to playfootball with Cody and come over
(26:19):
to the house, spend the nightall the time.
You know, he's an adorablelittle guy.
I hadn't seen him in years, buthe began to struggle and
checked out.
So you know, and that'shappening everywhere, all over
the place, and the only way Isee out of it is the families.
They just they have to.
They have to change.
The families have to beeducated, they have to.
If there was something going onwith my son, I would be on
(26:41):
youtube and google and readingand doing everything I can to,
at least even before.
If I'm too afraid to takeaction, at least I'm going to
educate myself on exactly whatis going on.
What is going on?
What can I do?
What do I need to do?
I'm just not seeing it.
Every interventionist, everycoach, everyone that is in our
(27:04):
space, should be so freakingbusy 10 hours a day, 12 hours a
day, that we can't do it.
All of the people saying, hey,what do I do, how do we do this,
what do we do?
And they're not.
They had a guy well, I had afamily, a guy.
A family like this individualhas lost limbs like lost limbs.
(27:25):
Lost limbs Like lost limbs.
No limb Can't point Right,can't even point to the problem
because of his actions.
And that's the best this guycan bring to the table, that's
the best he can muster, giventhe condition that he's in
emotionally and mentally at thispoint.
And they want to just, theywant to get his.
(27:46):
You know, just want to talk.
You know just want to talk.
I was like man, they want toget his.
You know, this one talk, thisone talk, I was like man they
don't get like.
And it's not rocket science,dude.
It's not rocket science.
If it was rocket science, Icouldn't do it.
And look, you're a much smarterman than I am, much more
intelligent guy than I am.
If it was rocket science, youcouldn't do it.
(28:08):
But it's really quite simple.
Your loved one is insane.
Just call it what it is.
It's a level of insanity.
And even I see professionalsfalling into that trap with
letters behind their name.
So long you need like three orfour business cards.
So many letters behind theirname fall into that trap.
(28:30):
Well, they need to be presentedwith such and such and they
need to be be uh, told of thisand that, and we can, you know.
And then we gotta leave it upto them.
Dude, they're fucking insaneman and the most insane thing
they do, they do sober.
It's that simple.
It's that simple.
They can return to sanity andthat's why I'm so open about
(28:51):
calling them insane.
It's like I know you can returnto sanity, I know, but why in
the hell are you sitting aroundwaiting on the insanity of your
loved one to just go away andthey just rouse themselves from
their lethargy and assert theirpower of will, as the literature
(29:12):
says right.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Well, it's that fear.
It's that fear of number onenot knowing how to have that
conversation in a way thatdoesn't invite conflict, or that
you know how to handle thatwhen it comes up.
But the other thing is just thefear of what if they get mad at
(29:34):
me?
What if they stop talking to me?
What if I create a separationthat can't be repaired later on.
That's the fear that I run into.
More than anything.
That keeps people stuck is Idon't want to hurt their
feelings and when I talk tofamilies it's like the feelings
(29:57):
that people have are the mostflexible part of this entire
equation.
You know, feelings are neverpermanent, ever.
You know I could be offeredsomething that I really don't
want one day.
And then I go and I have adifferent experience and all of
a sudden that that opportunitylooks a't want one day.
And then I go and I have adifferent experience and all of
(30:17):
a sudden that that opportunitylooks a little bit more
attractive.
Or how many times have you andI been in interventions where
something happened just days orweeks before the intervention,
where all of a sudden thatperson is now going to be more
open and receptive because ofthat experience?
I think families are areoftentimes looking at what are
they willing to do versus whatdo they need to do, and not that
(30:42):
we ever want to present this tosomebody saying you need to do
this, but the needs are going tostay pretty constant.
My needs, if I'm in activeaddiction, my needs are not
going to change from one day tothe next.
My feelings will.
I mean, that's what's out ofcontrol in the first place, is
how I feel and my inability todeal with it.
You know, and and.
(31:03):
So when families get stuck inthis idea of, but they're going
to feel bad, they're going tofeel ambushed, they're going to
feel, you know, criticized there, you know, whatever that is
it's like, okay, but the netresult could be that their life
gets saved and they go on andthey actually learn how to
manage the things that areunmanageable to them right now,
and they get to go out and havea wonderful life and they thank
(31:24):
you for it.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I had a lady today that she was like well, man, I
don't even know where to lookTreatment, I don't know what
he's willing to do, treatmentLike I don't know what he's
willing to do.
I said, well, hold up, let'sset him to the side right now.
Set him completely to the side,because you haven't even
approached him and you'realready in negotiations with his
(31:47):
illness.
You haven't even.
You haven't even.
You're not even in the samehouse right now.
You're not even in the sametown, you're in a different town
.
He came to him and you'realready starting to negotiate
with the elements.
It's like you find a place thatyou feel is would be the best
fit for your loved one.
You ask a lot of questions.
(32:09):
I gave her the questions Iasked, I said, and set him to
the side, pretend he can't feelright now.
All he can do is sit there andlisten.
That's it.
That's all he can do.
He can't respond, he can't doanything.
Set him aside.
That's dangerous.
It's very dangerous.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, yeah it is and you and I deal with this all the
time where families kind of getinto this game of mental chess
where they're trying to think,two and three and four moves
ahead, well, if I do this, thenthey're going to say this, and
so I'm going to have to approachit this way, and then they're
going to do this, and so I'mgoing to have to do this, and
then this is going to happen,and all of a sudden it's like,
well, I'm never going to be ableto do this.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Because they're thinking 10 steps down the
really should be happening rightnow.
How do I take this step or whodo I need?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
to get involved so that I can get this, this
accomplished.
Yeah, large part of what we dois slowing them down, didn't it
Matt?
You know, would you agree?
Large part of this process thatwe do is keeping them step by
step.
I get in too far, I'll be onthe phone, and you know they
they've hired me to do anintervention, or or know they've
hired me to do an intervention,or even before they've hired me
to do an intervention, and thentalking about well, what are we
(33:21):
going to do when he gets out oftreatment?
Yeah, listen, we're not thereyet.
You know, I love yourenthusiasm, but let's slow down
a little bit, step by step.
I got this family that you knowthey book a session and it's
like all right, you're marchingorders, I don't say that, but
(33:41):
you're like this is all you dofor right now.
This is your next step.
Let's do this, because they'llget carried away, and I get it.
I mean, it's all fear driven.
I even like to ask families allright, let's explore this fear.
He's going to be mad at me.
I even like to ask families allright, let's explore this fear.
He's going to be mad at me.
She's going to be mad at me,they're going to hate me.
Okay, if I say this, thenthey're going to do that.
(34:05):
I'm like, well, let's say theydo that.
What happens?
What happens Then what it'salways a famous one for me is
like the then what, then what?
Let's go all the way with it.
Then what?
It fizzles out.
It's like there's no ending, itjust fizzles.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
And it's just human nature.
We want to envision what theworst case scenario is so that
we're not crushed if it happens.
But those worst case scenariosare very, very rare.
But those worst case scenariosare very, very rare because the
(34:46):
person that we are reallywanting to find, that wonderful,
loving, kind, generous, funnyperson is still in there.
No-transcript, and you deserveto be happy.
(35:07):
And if you're done beingmiserable man, we've got a plan
that I think you're actuallygoing to be pretty happy with.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Your addiction is not going to be happy with it, but
you might be.
Yeah, I read a post from a guyHunter Shepard, I think, is his
name.
He's a creator on Facebook andhe wrote a post about his last
day.
He said he was in a car with abunch of other people that did
not want to be there but theyhad nowhere else to go.
He was absolutely miserable.
He had his last little bit ofdope and he spilled that and he
(35:48):
said he had scabs all over him,wasn't eating, couldn't think
straight and he was not going togo to someone and say, hey, I
need help.
Now.
I remember being in that place.
I remember being at the end ofa dead end road, smoking crack
and thinking my heart's going toblow up or eating too many
(36:08):
pills, and feeling like you'regoing to fade away, you know,
and I'm scared to go to sleep,you know.
And away, you know, and I'mscared to go to sleep, you know.
And and like just absolutemisery, wandering around in the
woods at three o'clock in themorning, not knowing where I am
or what I was doing, and justfeeling completely lost and
alone and and knowing that I waslosing my mind and still would
(36:30):
not go to the door to the familyand say, hey, you know what?
I think I'm ready to get.
Well, now it just us.
It's that way.
We need the family to take thereins.
We've got to have the familytake the reins.
And by taking the reins, itdoesn't mean you tell them what
they need to do.
It doesn't mean you tell themwhat they should do.
It means that you educateyourself and get ready for
(36:51):
battle.
You get trained for battle.
You get trained for thisjourney.
You get trained for thisjourney.
You get prepped, you get ready.
Just don't wing it.
I'm seeing a lot of folkswinging it.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Well, excuse me, gosh , my voice keeps cracking.
Trust me, I am older than 13.
You talked earlier aboutfamilies who don't get educated.
I would rather a family go ontoYouTube and Google and learn as
much as they can about whattheir person's going through,
even if the sources aren'tcredible and if the
(37:27):
information's not great.
I would much rather have afamily who comes to me with some
ideas that may need to bechanged, versus somebody coming
and saying I, I know I need todo something, but I don't know
what to do and and, furthermore,I don't know if I'm willing to
do it.
They don't usually say that, butthey'll.
They'll show us that in intheir inability to take action
(37:49):
and and it's, it's tough.
It's tough and I know westarted out talking about, you
know, the possibility ofstepping on people's toes today,
and I hope it hasn't been asbad as maybe I painted it out to
be.
But if we've hurt your feelingstoday, as we've been talking
about this, I hope you'velistened to this in the spirit
(38:11):
of you know we want you to lookat this from a different point
of view.
You know we're not in thebusiness of hurting people's
feelings.
We're in the business ofchanging people's minds.
I mean, I joke around sometimeswith people that you know I'm.
I professionally get paid to getpeople to do things they don't
want to do.
You know, and and I say itjokingly, but the reality is is
(38:34):
like that starts with the family.
Like they know there's aproblem.
I'm going to ask you to dothings you don't want to do, but
it's because I want to help andand and if, if families can
realize like I'm going to dothings that are uncomfortable
but the end result may be thatmy loved one lives and is happy.
(38:57):
All the other stuff, all thefeelings that people are worried
about, those get repaired.
Mistakes get made on both sides.
Amends need to be made on bothsides, but that's the easy part.
You can't make an amends tosomebody who's passed.
Yeah, and you don't want to bein the position of I wish, I
(39:19):
woulda, I wish I woulda yeahyeah, it reminds me of a family
that last year I it was a localfamily here in oregon, I it's.
They were close enough that Icould actually go and meet with
them in person before we did anyintervention work and I sat
down with them and in that, aswe're sitting there in the
coffee shop talking, theydecided, okay, we're going to,
(39:39):
we're going to do this.
And this young man had beenstruggling for 10 years.
10 years They'd been watchingthe slow decline into what
ultimately ended up being afentanyl addiction.
They decided they were going todo something about it.
They went home and found him,found him passed.
He was dead, you know.
(40:12):
And and it's easy to look atthat and say, oh well, you know,
there's always a reason that weget stuck, yeah, but, but, man,
you're right.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Those regrets, some of them you know, I see it,
people, I remember you tellingme about that one.
That was tough, that was atough one.
Yeah, matt, this has been agood show.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, I hope it's been good for the people that
have that have listened to it.
I've, I've enjoyed talkingabout it.
I know something sometimes wehave to talk about hard things,
but, um, hopefully by the nextone my voice sounds a little bit
more normal.
And and uh, yeah, thank youeverybody for tuning in and, if
you've made it this far, thanksfor for listening to my raspy
voice this whole time.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
And and uh, we'll see you on the next one.
Yeah, if you're interested inthe family support group, go to
interventiononcallcom.
Sit there for about fiveseconds.
A pop-up is going to pop upwhere you can register.
You'll get a Zoom link.
You can talk if you want to Bequiet, if you want to Show your
face or not.
It's completely up to you.
You are in control.
It's a safe place for you tolisten, learn and share.
(41:15):
And don't forget to follow usall on our social channels.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
And we'll see you again next week.
Yeah, and I'll put the link forthe family page on the IOC
website.
I'll put that in the show notesif people want to just go in
there and click on it.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Hey is our YouTubes and stuffon.
There Is our stuff on thewebsite.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Not yet.
We're working on getting thevideos of our podcast episodes
up on the website.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Okay, all right, all right.
Well, happy treason daytomorrow.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Absolutely Happy 4th of July everybody.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(42:14):
don't enable addiction ever.
And remember don't enableaddiction ever.
On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Let's talk again soon.
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