June 21, 2024 • 36 mins
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Catch our exciting announcement about the upcoming intervention and admissions training in Birmingham, Alabama this October!
Curious about the key questions to ask when seeking addiction treatment for a loved one? We discuss the importance of effective training and how families can better understand recovery and clinical modalities. Discover why being well-prepared and educated is crucial for making informed decisions, and the value of well-attended training sessions that leave participants not just satisfied but delighted.
Navigating the complexities of choosing the right treatment center can be overwhelming, especially with financial barriers in the way. We share insights on the crucial role of interventionists in crisis situations, the need for stabilizing individuals before making treatment decisions, and the frustrating lack of communication between treatment teams. Learn from our experiences as we highlight the necessity of clear roles and collaboration to ensure effective treatment outcomes.
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Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist. While a professional intervention can be a powerful experience for change, not every family needs a professionally led intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professional intervention, we can help. Hour sessions are $150.
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If you want to know more about the host's private practice please visit:
Matt Brown: Freedom Interventions
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Matt: @mattbrowninterventionist
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
professional interventionistsMatt Brown and Sam Davis.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism and are
reluctant to get the help thatthey need.
We hope to educate andentertain you while removing the
(00:25):
fear from the conversation.
Stay with us and we'll get youthrough it.
Please welcome the PartyWreckers, matt Brown and Sam
Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome back everybody.
I'm Matt.
This is Sam.
We are the Party Wreckers andwe're glad to have you here with
us.
Some of you may be watching uslive right now on YouTube or
Facebook.
The others will be listening tothis after the fact on our
podcast channels.
But thank you for being here,sam how you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm doing, okay, a little excited to be live on
YouTube and Facebook.
I don't think we've done thatbefore, have we?
No, it's been a while We'vegone live on.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
TikTok, but I don't know that we've ever gone live
on Facebook or YouTube.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, the pressure's on, isn't it A little bit Can't?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
edit out the live.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
You know, what we do is what they see, so we better
be on point.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
That's right.
There's no editing this messtoday, is there?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, I'm glad Lexi got me hooked up with and you
were, you know, both of y'allgot me hooked up with this new
podcast equipment.
Yeah, you sound good, you soundreal good on your.
Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm liking it.
You know, I just gonna, I'mgonna have to have her every
time to like hook it up and all,because I don't know what I'm
doing.
I really don't.
Ah, you'll figure it out.
(01:40):
It's been a while since we'vebeen live, we've been traveling,
we both have been going indifferent directions.
There were some equipmentissues.
I want to commit to everyoneand to you that to do this every
week at least podcast everyright on.
You know, maybe not always live, but at least do a podcast
(02:01):
every week.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Absolutely.
Now you talk about travel.
How was?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Switzerland.
Man, it was good.
You know, the Europeans have alot of things figured out that
we don't have figured out.
You know, one thing is traffic.
They got their roundabouts.
I mean, this is all of Europe.
We were in Switzerland, Austria, Germany, roundabouts
everywhere All those threecountries.
We probably went through fourstoplights the whole time, or
stop signs.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Now, when I first moved to my town here in Bend, I
hated roundabouts.
There's roundabouts everywherehere and I couldn't stand them.
But now I'm a fan.
After being here so long andseeing the purpose that they
serve and how they keep thingsmoving, I like them a lot.
I think you're right, yeah,they work, they work, they
definitely work.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Keep the flow moving.
I like them a lot.
I think you're right.
Yeah, they work, they work.
They definitely work.
Keep the flow moving.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Another thing is the food isthat their food is much more
healthier than ours.
We ate.
I mean, we didn't balk at thefood we ate and we didn't really
have to seek out excellentrestaurants.
We would just look at one andsay, oh, let's stop here and see
(03:07):
if and it would be excellentfood, and we ate, and ate.
And had dessert after everydinner and lost weight when we
got back.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Now, you guys were doing a fair amount of hiking,
though, too, right.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Um, yeah, you know certainly more than we do here,
but it really was the quality ofthe food and the lack of of
crap crap that we have in ourfood over here.
We came back, landed in Phillyairport and starving to death,
and we got some food at a Phillyegg rolls or something like
that, and she got a turkey wrap.
(03:39):
It was just disgusting.
It's just disgusting.
Another thing is that we areloud people in this country.
Every place has to have a bunchof TVs going with a bunch of
games and a bunch ofbroadcasters.
They're really overly excitedabout the game, talking about
(04:00):
sports 24-7 up on the TVs andthese bars.
And we landed in Zurich,switzerland, and one thing that
I immediately noticed is howquiet the airport was.
No senseless babble.
We got a lot of senselessbabble in our country as a
culture Too much babble.
(04:20):
They don't have it over there.
Oh, that's interesting it reallywas, like you could tell it
immediately when we landed.
Another thing they've gotfigured out is rail travel.
That's simple.
Once you figure out this, thesystem it's very simple.
(04:40):
It's very simple, it'scomfortable, everything is just.
It's a lot different than herein the States we are.
You can tell coming back herethat we were a bunch of rebels,
and it's still very much so inour culture over here.
It's a bunch of rebels.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Well, I'm glad you had a good time.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yeah, it was great.
It was great, but I'm glad tobe back.
I was really glad to have theopportunity to go.
It's not every day that someonegets to do something like that,
and to have the freedom to dothat and the people in your life
to do it with is pretty special, pretty special.
(05:22):
But, you know hell, man.
11 days is almost a third of amonth.
That's a long time to well,it's over a third of a month.
It's a long time to be gone.
Come back home and, you know,pick up the pick up the work
again be a little difficult.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well, speaking of picking up the work, um, while
we're while we're talking aboutit, and before we jump into the
topic today, I want to just putit out there to everybody that
we are planning anotherintervention training
intervention and admissionstraining in October in
Birmingham, alabama not yet beendecided.
(06:01):
It's either going to be thesecond, the third or the fourth
weekend.
But if you're interested intraining to become a certified
interventionist, if you'reinterested in working in a more
effective capacity with families, if you're working in treatment
, by all means consider joiningus in Birmingham this October.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, it's going to be fun, I'm looking forward to
it.
I've already had several peoplereach out on social media
asking about being trained.
I said look, it's going to befun, I'm looking forward to it.
I've already had several peoplereach out on social media
asking about being trained.
I said look it's coming.
Know it's going to be inBirmingham.
Know it's going to be inOctober.
Just don't have the date yet.
I would have liked to have donea couple of trainings so far
this year, but it's just lifegets in the way.
You know family stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And and you know I'd rather have fewer trainings with
more people just to to to makesure that everybody gets the
best experience possible.
I think you know, of the threethat we did last year, two of
them were really, really wellattended and I think the people
that attended those trainingsgot way more out of it than the
one that was had fewer people.
And so I want to make sure thatthat when we do a training, we
(07:02):
get as many people there,because I think that just the
exchange of ideas some peoplewere already working in the
field and brought some things toour training, some ideas and
some experiences that I feltlike were valuable, and so I
want to make sure that we get asmany people there as possible.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah, you know, man, I think what sets us apart is
and I'm going to toot our ownhorn here is that we just don't
want to satisfy our customers,people that are signing up to
train I don't anyway, I want todelight them.
I heard Warren Buffett say thatlook, don't wake up in the
morning wanting to just satisfyyour customer.
(07:38):
Delight your customer, becauseif you can delight your customer
, then you've got a sales forceout there that you don't have to
pay, that you don't have to.
You don't even know they'rethere, but they're out there
talking about you.
And I think we've been able todo that on intervention on call
with, I can say for certainty,every single one of our, of our
(07:59):
families that have signed onwith intervention on call have
been delighted, not justsatisfied, but been delighted.
And I and I take that and Iknow you do as well, take it
into our trainings, man.
I go into these trainings.
I want every single personleave there going wow, delighted
, not just satisfied.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, and I think that we've.
We've done that so far and it'sonly going to get better as we
get more experience with thisand learning how to give our
experience to other people inthe most effective way and fun
way possible.
I don't want these trainings tobe boring either.
I want them to be enjoyable andto some degree, you know, not
just educational, but worthwhile.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I know I'm not alwaysdelightful, I know I'm not
always delighted and I know I'mnot always delightful.
I know I'm not always delightedand I know I'm not always
delighting people, but thatreally hit with me what I heard
Warren Buffett say aboutdelighting people.
Don't just satisfy them,delight them.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well, for those who are interested, we hope to see
you in October.
What are we talking about today, Sam?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
You know, buddy, I think a lot about if I was a
family and I got someone outhere struggling with addiction
and they're searching around forprograms and how daunting that
must be.
And I know we've talked aboutit before.
But really the questions thatthey ask when they call an
admissions person, uh, is howmuch does it cost and do you
(09:29):
take insurance?
And if any of those questionsanswers to those questions fit
their bill, that's where they goa lot of the time right?
yeah, most often that's that'show it happens and we're losing
people at an alarming rate andthe success rates coming out of
treatment aren't that great andpeople are ending up in wrong
(09:50):
levels of care and familiesdon't know really what they're
doing when their loved one goes.
So I put out here to a bunch ofprofessionals yesterday.
I asked, I said what are threequestions families should be
asking an admissions specialistwhen inquiring about their
program?
And I got a lot of interestingresponses.
What would?
I'm not trying to put you onthe spot here, bob, but what do
you think would be a questionthey need to ask?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I would.
I think one of the things thatI would want to find out about
is what is their recoverymodality?
Is it 12-step?
Is it you know other or or arethere various avenues of
recovery at the treatmentprogram?
Uh, because that's the numberone reason people are going
there most of the time isbecause of drug and alcohol
addiction.
If there are any underlyingissues, you know what are the
(10:39):
clinical modalities?
Is there psychiatry?
How many people are there?
Is it gender specific?
What are the groups composed of?
Men or women or both?
I mean, there's so manyquestions that could get asked.
What are some of the thingsthat people online said?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Well, I've got some top that I feel are top rated.
That just blew my hair back.
What little hair I've got left.
But it just blew it right onback and I had one that just
made me shake my head and justbe like, oh yep, this is why
we're in the mess we're in.
It's a good, it's a good.
Well, let's start with the topones then Want to start with the
(11:18):
top ones.
Right, yeah, let's hear those.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Okay, all right, this guy and I'm not going to give
any names, but this gentleman.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
He said I would ask what causes addiction?
Their answer will reveal whatthey are really treating.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That is a very insightful question.
Yes, yes Now the family has tounderstand the answer to that
question first before it getsasked.
So it requires a certain levelof understanding and education
on the family's part.
But that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Simple, right?
I mean, when I saw that he hadtexted that I immediately wanted
to be his friend, like I wantto hang out with this guy,
because it's just really simpleand yet very profound.
But you're exactly right, thefamily has to know the language
before they go into making calls.
And that's where they mess upis.
A lot of families do the oldready shoot and then aim.
(12:20):
They don't do ready, aim fire.
They ready shoot and then aim.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And in an effort to really give the best service to
the families that are listeningto this right now.
In your opinion, what would bethe worst answer a treatment
center could give to thatquestion?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Well, let's go through, because there's a part
two to this answer.
Okay, oh, yeah, let's do it.
Yeah, all right, let's get toit.
And he went on.
Another guy jumped in there andsaid, or even related what is
addiction, the answer to whichmight reveal if they are
treating anything at all, whichis, it's true, right, it's true,
(12:58):
and you know, it took me towhere you and I went out and
were training a staff out therethat had been in place for quite
some time.
All of them had theircredentials, all of them were
licensed, all of them had therequirements that they needed to
hold a position that they had,and we went around the room and
asked them, just very simply,what is addiction?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And the answers, just I was disgusted at the answers
yeah, especially with themedical staff there we did a
separate training just for themedical staff for a few hours
and the ones that you wouldthink from even from a medical
perspective, would be able toanswer that question with the
most solid answer.
(13:37):
I guess.
Just from a medical standpoint,the number of just off-the-wall
answers we got in that groupwas astounding.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, it was alarming .
It was alarming so he said itgets a lot worse.
What is addiction?
What causes addiction?
What ends addiction?
What are the means to endingaddiction that you guys use?
Those are all great questions.
Yeah, and you know what it'lldo.
(14:08):
Guarantee you 80% of the time.
Guarantee you.
They call any number of theseprograms around the country just
these willingness random.
You're going to get a lot ofsilence on the phone of the
admissions.
You're going to stump thembecause most of them have this
little thing that they'resupposed to say right or that
they're used to saying.
Then you get a family say allright.
(14:30):
So what do you all believeaddiction is?
What do you do to treat thataddiction?
What are you going to do tostop that addiction?
What is your modality and whatis your belief?
It'll be very I have a hardtime getting my words out today
revealing as to what's reallygoing on in that program.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Well, and that doesn't just apply to addiction
treatment you know, you look atpeople coming out of you know
for themselves, coming out ofresidential care, going into
aftercare, going to see atherapist Like how do I know if
my therapist understandsaddiction recovery?
How do I know if mypsychiatrist understands
addiction recovery?
Or my doctor understandsaddiction recovery?
(15:08):
Or my interventionist that I'mabout to hire to come out and
get my loved one into treatment,how do I know that they
understand addiction?
Great questions to ask anybodyin this space that you're
considering bringing on to askfor help.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, but to be effective, you have to know
yourself, right, what addictionis and what it isn't, and what
the solution should be.
Yeah, so why don't you?
You want to hear the, the, theleast favorite answer, yes, or
the one that just had me shakingmy head, please.
Now this is from a professionalthat looks to be has been
(15:45):
around a long, long time,professional professor, like all
kinds of letters andexperiences, and gray, you know,
been doing this a long time.
One of those right, highlyeducated.
They should never begin with anadmission specialist, never,
then, went into SUD.
Patients' rights right.
(16:06):
So I get patients' rights.
I understand that, but I feelthat this is coming from a
different angle.
He's using a different angle Tohave an independent evaluation
to an informed consent to choosetreatment based on comparable
outcomes.
To know the risks and benefitsof all protocols and science
they are based on.
To know the qualifications andtraining of everyone providing
(16:29):
care to be offered several.
He's an educational consultanttoo, okay, so let me throw that
out there.
I figured, yeah, just listeningto what they're saying,
absolutely, starting off rightthere, because you need to hire
him in order to understand allthis.
Right To know thequalifications of training
everyone providing care and tobe offered several levels of
care, including MAT and harmreduction.
To be offered several levels ofcare, to include MAT and harm
(16:51):
reduction.
That alarmed me, not about theMAT but the to be offered, and
I'll get into why.
To not be charged for servicesthat are free in the community,
like AA step work.
To have treatment options neartheir homes when available.
To not have the communicationwith their community taken away.
To have significant otherfamily involvement from day one.
(17:13):
To be offered ambulatorywithdrawal management when
clinically indicated.
To be given an individualtreatment plan based on their
goals to which they agree.
To have support in thecommunity in which they live.
To be informed as to whatalternative care is also
available.
To know the average length oftreatment and all calls to be
offered the least restrictivetreatment available.
To be given completeinformation regarding diagnosis,
(17:38):
treatment and prognosis.
My issue with that is that Iunderstand all that I get it, I
get it and I don't disagree witheverything you said.
No, I don't either.
I really don't.
It's not about you know theyshouldn't have any rights.
That's not where I'm going.
But you're going to present allof this information.
What it sounds like to me ishey, we're going to inform an
(18:00):
individual, and as mucheducation and background and
experience as an individual likethis has is they miss the
simple fact that you're going topresent all this information to
an individual that isdisplaying signs of insanity and
leave it all up to them of whatthey do and sit here and wonder
(18:21):
why we're in the mess thatwe're in.
You know what I mean?
That's nonsense.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
There's this buzzword out there that I think a lot of
people buy into withoutunderstanding the implications,
and that's client-centered careor client-centered treatment,
where the client is the onedictating what's going to happen
.
There has to be choice.
(18:49):
This doesn't work in a completedictatorship, but at the same
time, of course, someone who'stwisted up drunk can't make the
decision.
I get that.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
But I'm talking with nothing in their system,
straight out of even out ofdetox.
Nothing in their system.
You know, people miss the factthat the most insane thing, the
decision that they make, theymake stone cold sober and that's
to get more.
In a stone cold, sober state ofmind, they make a decision to
get more, despite the flames andrubble in their life as a
(19:37):
result of going to get more.
In a sober state of mind, theymake a decision to get more.
And let's not even.
Let's look at it like this IfI'm walking down the street, if
I wake up every day and four orfive times a day I involuntarily
just knock myself and I punchmyself in the face, right, like
(19:59):
four or five times a day.
I do that Just walk around andall of a sudden just punch
myself in the faceuncontrollably, involuntarily,
and I don't want to do ituncontrollably, involuntarily
and I don't want to do it.
It wouldn't take long for me tostop at nothing and do whatever
is necessary to find out why Ikeep involuntarily punching
myself in the face, even when Idon't want to, and I'm trying
(20:20):
everything I can not to, but Ido it anyway.
I wouldn't stop at nothing, Iwould follow directions, I would
go to the greatest solutionthat I could find, but with an
addicted individual, thatdoesn't work that way.
We've got to haveinterventionists like us a lot
of the times to get in there andsay, hey man, look, your
(20:42):
family's worried about you.
This is what's happening andhere's a way out.
And they fight us on it toothand nail for a long time, based
on experiences, based on theactions, just like you say, not
what the individual says, butwhat they do.
Right, it's about watching amovie in a foreign film.
Do you think?
Are they displaying evidencethat shows that they are in a
(21:05):
place that they can weigh all ofthis information and make a
good decision?
Absolutely not, absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Some of it.
Yes, and, like I said, I don'twant to throw out the baby with
the bathwater there.
There was some valuableinformation, I think, in what he
said and some good insight intowhat he said, but I also think
that there was a lot in therethat you know.
I mean the first thing, like,don't start out by talking to an
admission specialist.
Well, not every family is goingto have $7,000 or $8,000 to
(21:40):
hire an educational consultantjust to choose a treatment
program and do all theassessment work and do all of
that because they've gotsomebody with a fentanyl
addiction, all the assessmentwork and do all of that because
they've got somebody with afentanyl addiction.
And whether they can affordseven or $8,000 to hire the ed
consultant or not and I'mballparking that number, I don't
know if that's the figure ornot, it's in the thousands.
I know that it's probablycomparable to what we charge
when we go out and do anintervention, but you got
(22:04):
somebody who's got a severefentanyl addiction, let's say at
risk for overdose every singleday.
You want to make a gooddecision as a family on which
treatment center you're going tochoose, but do you have time to
go through addiction or activemethamphetamine addiction, with
(22:25):
methamphetamine psychosis is isthat going to be the best
information to make thatassessment with?
Or does there need to be aperiod of stabilization before
that happens?
And and so like?
There's there's so manyvariables in in this that I I I
don't want to entirely discountwhoever this was, but at the
same time, I think that there'sa lack of understanding of what
(22:50):
families are going through inthat moment and the crisis that
they're in.
At the same time, I think, whenyou know when he, when he warns
against talking to an admissionspecialist first, I think there
are some predators out therethat will take advantage of that
crisis and and and get a familysold on something that may or
(23:12):
may not work, just to get theminto a treatment center.
So I can see it both ways.
But at the same time, I thinkthere's a crisis here that just
can't, sometimes that time can'tbe afforded to to, to, to be
spent in that, that that workahead of time sometimes.
And and you know, again, Iagain I don't want to badmouth
anybody, but I think there's alack of insight there and a lack
(23:32):
of understanding of what we'rereally dealing with.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yeah, look, I'm not discounting all the stuff he
says.
Right, and in an ideal world,every family would go to a
professional and get someguidance and understanding
before they pick up the phoneand just start willy-nilly
calling treatment centers orGoogle them.
Absolutely, I agree 100% inthat.
100%, it's not going to happen.
It's not going to happen.
These families out here incrisis and in panic mode, just
(23:57):
calling around the treatmentcenters when the shit hits the
fan and going to which one takesthe insurance and which one
they can afford, or what haveyou, or which one's in whatever,
in their hometown or whateverthe case may be.
Look, I'm in full support of hey, educate yourself before you
make decisions like this,because it's very important and
(24:18):
these treatment centers are adime a dozen.
I'm not even bad-mouthingtreatment centers, it's just a
fact.
There they are a dime a dozen.
Out here there's thousands ofthem, thousands and thousands.
Families need to be educatedbefore they do it, but a large
majority of them are not goingto be All right.
So to make it, to make sometype of a dent, is like hey,
what are three?
Because they're going to callan admissions person.
(24:40):
They're going to do that Likewhat are some.
What are some questions thatthey should be asking that are
that that are not.
Hey, how much are you and doyou take insurance, or will you
take oh?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
absolutely and listen .
If you're an ed consultant andnot this person but any ed
consultant and you want to reachmore people to provide these
assessment services and be ableto provide these recommendations
to people, but families can'taccess you financially, get on
intervention on call.
Come on and do it an hour at atime with us and let's compare
(25:11):
and see like are the outcomesthere?
And if they are, I'd love tochange the way that I do.
If there's better ways of doingthings out there and we can see
that the data supports that man, I'm all in.
But when you say this is whatneeds to happen, we'll make that
accessible, like we're doing onintervention on call to
families that either can'tafford or don't need an
(25:32):
intervention, and let's makethose tools available to
everybody.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah, and you know what.
That's how you delight yourcustomer, make it available to
the masses.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
What are some of the other answers to that question
that you got?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Let me see, let's look here bud.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I shouldn't say that that gentleman was offering what
he felt like was a greatopinion, and I shouldn't say
that it was bad.
Thank you for answering thequestion.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, definitely.
I appreciate his input.
Maybe I perceived it as alittle sideways, but it just
really didn't answer thequestion, didn't understand the
assignment.
That's all right.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
But other than that.
Let's move on to somebody thatmaybe did.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Guy said can I tour the property before I make a
decision?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Why do you think that's important?
I agree, but why do you thinkthat's important if they can
afford to take the time to dothat?
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Hey, you know some of these people you see on social
media they got so many filtersand diamond and gold and glitter
and paint make you look likesomething that you ain't.
Well, a treatment center can dothe same thing through their
admissions team and they can doit on their pictures on the
website and in theirdescriptions.
Nothing, nothing beats goingand kicking the tires.
You know, I've seen manyvehicles online that look really
(26:46):
good online and you go to themand they're not so many houses,
everything right.
So kick your feet.
Meet the staff.
Feel the energy of the programis the main thing I know.
For me, I can walk on site andfeel the energy of what it is
and what it isn't, almostimmediately walking in the door.
And I visited some programswhere it was just the energy was
just super dark, all justoozing out of the patients and
(27:12):
just the lackadaisical staff.
You know like you can feel it,you can see it, like you'll see
it firsthand.
You know and you can feel itfirsthand.
Meet the team, meet the staff,tour where they're going to be,
what their day-to-day is, get aschedule.
You know I'm all about touring,but you but most of our people
go out of state, different statefrom where they originate from.
(27:35):
So just going to tour canfinancially just not be or
logistically just can't work,but I think I support that a
hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Well, and some facilities will either have a
virtual tour on their website or, if you're talking to somebody
and you can't get there ahead oftime, you know hey, is there
any way?
Do you happen to have a virtualtour that you can send me, that
I can see the property andmaybe hear some of the staff?
Or, you know, and for treatmentcenters that are out there that
potentially could be hearingthis?
I'd love for people to startputting more of that together
because of the, the, the abilityto travel to other states that
(28:08):
a lot of families have, you know, it's just a good way for them
to put eyes on beforehand.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
What are the expectations forparent involvement if a minor or
support person involved?
If the client has an outsidetreatment team, how involved can
they be when the client isadmitted to the program?
Will they be updated on goals,progress involved?
How informed do you want to be,matt, when you're the
professional and you've sentsomeone to treatment?
(28:34):
How informed do you want to bekept in the loop with?
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I'm struggling a little bit right now.
I've got a husband and wife intreatment and I'm just trying to
help the family out.
They ended up going totreatment without an
intervention.
It was a family that I hadworked with on intervention on
call.
The husband and wife both wentto different treatment centers
and I've tried to stay in theloop because the family wants
some ongoing support, just interms of planning aftercare,
(28:58):
making sure that they'recommitted to aftercare, those
kinds of things.
And when the family is reachingout to me going, hey, do you
know what's going on over thereand I haven't had an update,
it's entirely frustratingbecause I cannot provide the
family with the information thatthey're looking for.
They're not getting informationfrom the treatment team and and
(29:20):
it just feels like the the theclient is out there on an Island
and, hey, we'll let you knowwhen we're done with them and
we'll let you know what the planis and that's usually within,
you know, the last three or fourdays of the treatment
experience and it's tough.
It's tough to plan effectiveaftercare when you don't have
the kind of communication thatyou need and you know, when you
(29:43):
talk about referringprofessionals or when you talk
about treatment teams, whetherthe person had a therapist or a
psychiatrist or you know, ifthere's a medical issue.
You know they've got liverissues or pancreatic issues
because of alcoholism andthey've got, you know, a doctor
that's been working with them.
When the, when the team at thetreatment center isn't willing
to communicate with thoseoutside professionals, I think
they're doing themselves and theclient a disservice.
(30:04):
It takes more effort, it takesmore energy, but I think that a
lot of times there's thisthought process of well, if that
was working, they wouldn't comehere, so we're not going to go
back to systems that didn't workand so we're just going to
provide the services that weprovide here and then we'll
figure it out, and I think thatthat's just the wrong approach
(30:24):
to take.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yeah, yeah, I don't you know.
I don't want to be left in thedark, but I make it clear that
as soon as they walk in the door, I'm taking a supportive role
with the family and I'm here tosupport the team at the facility
and anything that they need.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
that I understand that that individual is in their
care.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
They're going there because they're trusted, and
expect them to do a job and tolet them do that job until maybe
their actions, or lack ofactions, require me to step in
and take a more assertive roleon behalf of the family to make
sure that things are done theway they should be done.
You know, just to stay in mylane though you know the lane
(31:05):
that I'm supposed to be in.
I don't try to overstep thatlane.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
One of the first treatment centers I worked at.
It was the first treatmentcenter that I worked at.
It was in Arizona and we workedwith a lot of referring
professionals, whether it was ata consultants or
interventionists, and and it wasalways frustrating, when we'd
get a call from a professional,they'd refer us somebody, but
then they would say, well, Iwant them with this therapist
(31:30):
and I want them to see thistherapist and I want them doing
this, and it's like they're theones mapping out the treatment
plan and and it's like, wait aminute, you know we will work
with you and we want tocommunicate with you and we want
all this input, but but we'vegot a really good, good
treatment program here and andyou know, we will collaborate
with you and we will work withyou and we will be flexible, but
(31:52):
please don't dictate to us whatwe do.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
You know and, and in the same way that I, I would not
want a treatment centerreferring me an intervention and
then saying, okay, here's howthe intervention should go.
I'm open to any of that impactor any of that input, because
it's going to make me better forthat family if I have all that
information.
But please don't tell me how todo what I've spent the last 20
(32:17):
years learning how to do.
I feel like I'm good at it, butI'll be better at it if you
share it with me.
But let me do what I do, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
I had that experience last week.
Family was leaning on a familyfriend that worked in the
industry Wasn't aninterventionist and there were
two friends that are going to bea part of the intervention and
I said, you know, when thecheck-in one of the check-ins
throughout the day I was likeare these friends going to be at
the rehearsal on the?
night of the rehearsal it waslike no, we've got him.
(32:45):
They're going to stay with suchand such to make sure that they
don't drink.
And I'm like, where'd that comefrom?
And well, it was advised to usby such and such.
You know they work at thisprogram.
I'm like you know, the morning,the night before is never as
important as the morning of youknow, as far as, like, you know
(33:10):
whether he drinks or not, youknow, like, whether he drinks or
doesn't drinks or doesn't drinkis not an issue, unless he's
gets on the road and is drivingbehind the wheel, then we've got
to, you know, take preventivemeasures for that.
But you know, the power ofthese friends being a part of
this intervention and being apart of the rehearsal is way
more important than whether thisguy drinks or not.
(33:32):
My experience shows me that mytraining shows me that, common
sense shows me that.
So having another professionalin there sticking, his beak in
that doesn't have the experienceto do with what we're doing,
you know, causes a few problems.
You know, maybe I'm throwingpeople under the bus today, man,
I feel like right, I'm justlike, but think about it.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Like, how many times have you done an intervention in
the last decade where theperson did use or drink the
night before or you know thewithin the week before and that
caused them to have anexperience that was so negative
that they may not have beenopen-minded to what you were
going to say or the family wasgoing to say up to that point,
(34:16):
but maybe they did go out anddrive and got arrested two days
before the intervention or thenight of the intervention.
Maybe they got into an accident.
It's like you know what, whileI don't want know what, that
well, while I don't want to wishthat on anybody, that was the
thing that caused someone tohave an open mind and become a
little bit more open to the ideaof getting help.
And and the more we try tocontrol I, I think the more
(34:42):
we're eliminating the spiritualcomponent of this and and kind
of cutting God out of theexperience.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, that was my main thing to the family.
It was listen.
This is doing nothing to helpyou relinquish?
Your delusion that you're incontrol of your loved one.
That type of action is nothelping that.
Let him sit, let him be, gethim to the rehearsal.
That's more valuable thanbabysitting Buddy.
(35:10):
I got to get to a wedding,charmaine's getting married
today.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Really Well tell her I said hello and congratulations
.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Isn't she genius getting married on a Thursday
evening.
Yeah, brilliant, brilliant.
I love her for it.
Love her for it.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, give her my best.
You have a wonderful time atthe wedding and we'll see you
again on the next one, man.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Hey, appreciate you.
Man Enjoyed this.
Everyone be well.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Thanks again for listening to the party records.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(35:58):
don't enable addiction ever.
On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Let's talk again soon.
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
professional interventionistsMatt Brown and Sam Davis.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism and are
reluctant to get the help thatthey need.
We hope to educate andentertain you while removing the
(00:25):
fear from the conversation.
Stay with us and we'll get youthrough it.
Please welcome the PartyWreckers, matt Brown and Sam
Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome back everybody.
I'm Matt.
This is Sam.
We are the Party Wreckers andwe're glad to have you here with
us.
Some of you may be watching uslive right now on YouTube or
Facebook.
The others will be listening tothis after the fact on our
podcast channels.
But thank you for being here,sam how you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm doing, okay, a little excited to be live on
YouTube and Facebook.
I don't think we've done thatbefore, have we?
No, it's been a while We'vegone live on.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
TikTok, but I don't know that we've ever gone live
on Facebook or YouTube.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, the pressure's on, isn't it A little bit Can't?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
edit out the live.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
You know, what we do is what they see, so we better
be on point.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
That's right.
There's no editing this messtoday, is there?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, I'm glad Lexi got me hooked up with and you
were, you know, both of y'allgot me hooked up with this new
podcast equipment.
Yeah, you sound good, you soundreal good on your.
Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm liking it.
You know, I just gonna, I'mgonna have to have her every
time to like hook it up and all,because I don't know what I'm
doing.
I really don't.
Ah, you'll figure it out.
(01:40):
It's been a while since we'vebeen live, we've been traveling,
we both have been going indifferent directions.
There were some equipmentissues.
I want to commit to everyoneand to you that to do this every
week at least podcast everyright on.
You know, maybe not always live, but at least do a podcast
(02:01):
every week.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Absolutely.
Now you talk about travel.
How was?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Switzerland.
Man, it was good.
You know, the Europeans have alot of things figured out that
we don't have figured out.
You know, one thing is traffic.
They got their roundabouts.
I mean, this is all of Europe.
We were in Switzerland, Austria, Germany, roundabouts
everywhere All those threecountries.
We probably went through fourstoplights the whole time, or
stop signs.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Now, when I first moved to my town here in Bend, I
hated roundabouts.
There's roundabouts everywherehere and I couldn't stand them.
But now I'm a fan.
After being here so long andseeing the purpose that they
serve and how they keep thingsmoving, I like them a lot.
I think you're right, yeah,they work, they work, they
definitely work.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Keep the flow moving.
I like them a lot.
I think you're right.
Yeah, they work, they work.
They definitely work.
Keep the flow moving.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Another thing is the food isthat their food is much more
healthier than ours.
We ate.
I mean, we didn't balk at thefood we ate and we didn't really
have to seek out excellentrestaurants.
We would just look at one andsay, oh, let's stop here and see
(03:07):
if and it would be excellentfood, and we ate, and ate.
And had dessert after everydinner and lost weight when we
got back.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Now, you guys were doing a fair amount of hiking,
though, too, right.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Um, yeah, you know certainly more than we do here,
but it really was the quality ofthe food and the lack of of
crap crap that we have in ourfood over here.
We came back, landed in Phillyairport and starving to death,
and we got some food at a Phillyegg rolls or something like
that, and she got a turkey wrap.
(03:39):
It was just disgusting.
It's just disgusting.
Another thing is that we areloud people in this country.
Every place has to have a bunchof TVs going with a bunch of
games and a bunch ofbroadcasters.
They're really overly excitedabout the game, talking about
(04:00):
sports 24-7 up on the TVs andthese bars.
And we landed in Zurich,switzerland, and one thing that
I immediately noticed is howquiet the airport was.
No senseless babble.
We got a lot of senselessbabble in our country as a
culture Too much babble.
(04:20):
They don't have it over there.
Oh, that's interesting it reallywas, like you could tell it
immediately when we landed.
Another thing they've gotfigured out is rail travel.
That's simple.
Once you figure out this, thesystem it's very simple.
(04:40):
It's very simple, it'scomfortable, everything is just.
It's a lot different than herein the States we are.
You can tell coming back herethat we were a bunch of rebels,
and it's still very much so inour culture over here.
It's a bunch of rebels.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Well, I'm glad you had a good time.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yeah, it was great.
It was great, but I'm glad tobe back.
I was really glad to have theopportunity to go.
It's not every day that someonegets to do something like that,
and to have the freedom to dothat and the people in your life
to do it with is pretty special, pretty special.
(05:22):
But, you know hell, man.
11 days is almost a third of amonth.
That's a long time to well,it's over a third of a month.
It's a long time to be gone.
Come back home and, you know,pick up the pick up the work
again be a little difficult.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well, speaking of picking up the work, um, while
we're while we're talking aboutit, and before we jump into the
topic today, I want to just putit out there to everybody that
we are planning anotherintervention training
intervention and admissionstraining in October in
Birmingham, alabama not yet beendecided.
(06:01):
It's either going to be thesecond, the third or the fourth
weekend.
But if you're interested intraining to become a certified
interventionist, if you'reinterested in working in a more
effective capacity with families, if you're working in treatment
, by all means consider joiningus in Birmingham this October.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, it's going to be fun, I'm looking forward to
it.
I've already had several peoplereach out on social media
asking about being trained.
I said look, it's going to befun, I'm looking forward to it.
I've already had several peoplereach out on social media
asking about being trained.
I said look it's coming.
Know it's going to be inBirmingham.
Know it's going to be inOctober.
Just don't have the date yet.
I would have liked to have donea couple of trainings so far
this year, but it's just lifegets in the way.
You know family stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And and you know I'd rather have fewer trainings with
more people just to to to makesure that everybody gets the
best experience possible.
I think you know, of the threethat we did last year, two of
them were really, really wellattended and I think the people
that attended those trainingsgot way more out of it than the
one that was had fewer people.
And so I want to make sure thatthat when we do a training, we
(07:02):
get as many people there,because I think that just the
exchange of ideas some peoplewere already working in the
field and brought some things toour training, some ideas and
some experiences that I feltlike were valuable, and so I
want to make sure that we get asmany people there as possible.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah, you know, man, I think what sets us apart is
and I'm going to toot our ownhorn here is that we just don't
want to satisfy our customers,people that are signing up to
train I don't anyway, I want todelight them.
I heard Warren Buffett say thatlook, don't wake up in the
morning wanting to just satisfyyour customer.
(07:38):
Delight your customer, becauseif you can delight your customer
, then you've got a sales forceout there that you don't have to
pay, that you don't have to.
You don't even know they'rethere, but they're out there
talking about you.
And I think we've been able todo that on intervention on call
with, I can say for certainty,every single one of our, of our
(07:59):
families that have signed onwith intervention on call have
been delighted, not justsatisfied, but been delighted.
And I and I take that and Iknow you do as well, take it
into our trainings, man.
I go into these trainings.
I want every single personleave there going wow, delighted
, not just satisfied.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, and I think that we've.
We've done that so far and it'sonly going to get better as we
get more experience with thisand learning how to give our
experience to other people inthe most effective way and fun
way possible.
I don't want these trainings tobe boring either.
I want them to be enjoyable andto some degree, you know, not
just educational, but worthwhile.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I know I'm not alwaysdelightful, I know I'm not
always delighted and I know I'mnot always delightful.
I know I'm not always delightedand I know I'm not always
delighting people, but thatreally hit with me what I heard
Warren Buffett say aboutdelighting people.
Don't just satisfy them,delight them.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well, for those who are interested, we hope to see
you in October.
What are we talking about today, Sam?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
You know, buddy, I think a lot about if I was a
family and I got someone outhere struggling with addiction
and they're searching around forprograms and how daunting that
must be.
And I know we've talked aboutit before.
But really the questions thatthey ask when they call an
admissions person, uh, is howmuch does it cost and do you
(09:29):
take insurance?
And if any of those questionsanswers to those questions fit
their bill, that's where they goa lot of the time right?
yeah, most often that's that'show it happens and we're losing
people at an alarming rate andthe success rates coming out of
treatment aren't that great andpeople are ending up in wrong
(09:50):
levels of care and familiesdon't know really what they're
doing when their loved one goes.
So I put out here to a bunch ofprofessionals yesterday.
I asked, I said what are threequestions families should be
asking an admissions specialistwhen inquiring about their
program?
And I got a lot of interestingresponses.
What would?
I'm not trying to put you onthe spot here, bob, but what do
you think would be a questionthey need to ask?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I would.
I think one of the things thatI would want to find out about
is what is their recoverymodality?
Is it 12-step?
Is it you know other or or arethere various avenues of
recovery at the treatmentprogram?
Uh, because that's the numberone reason people are going
there most of the time isbecause of drug and alcohol
addiction.
If there are any underlyingissues, you know what are the
(10:39):
clinical modalities?
Is there psychiatry?
How many people are there?
Is it gender specific?
What are the groups composed of?
Men or women or both?
I mean, there's so manyquestions that could get asked.
What are some of the thingsthat people online said?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Well, I've got some top that I feel are top rated.
That just blew my hair back.
What little hair I've got left.
But it just blew it right onback and I had one that just
made me shake my head and justbe like, oh yep, this is why
we're in the mess we're in.
It's a good, it's a good.
Well, let's start with the topones then Want to start with the
(11:18):
top ones.
Right, yeah, let's hear those.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Okay, all right, this guy and I'm not going to give
any names, but this gentleman.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
He said I would ask what causes addiction?
Their answer will reveal whatthey are really treating.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That is a very insightful question.
Yes, yes Now the family has tounderstand the answer to that
question first before it getsasked.
So it requires a certain levelof understanding and education
on the family's part.
But that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Simple, right?
I mean, when I saw that he hadtexted that I immediately wanted
to be his friend, like I wantto hang out with this guy,
because it's just really simpleand yet very profound.
But you're exactly right, thefamily has to know the language
before they go into making calls.
And that's where they mess upis.
A lot of families do the oldready shoot and then aim.
(12:20):
They don't do ready, aim fire.
They ready shoot and then aim.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And in an effort to really give the best service to
the families that are listeningto this right now.
In your opinion, what would bethe worst answer a treatment
center could give to thatquestion?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Well, let's go through, because there's a part
two to this answer.
Okay, oh, yeah, let's do it.
Yeah, all right, let's get toit.
And he went on.
Another guy jumped in there andsaid, or even related what is
addiction, the answer to whichmight reveal if they are
treating anything at all, whichis, it's true, right, it's true,
(12:58):
and you know, it took me towhere you and I went out and
were training a staff out therethat had been in place for quite
some time.
All of them had theircredentials, all of them were
licensed, all of them had therequirements that they needed to
hold a position that they had,and we went around the room and
asked them, just very simply,what is addiction?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And the answers, just I was disgusted at the answers
yeah, especially with themedical staff there we did a
separate training just for themedical staff for a few hours
and the ones that you wouldthink from even from a medical
perspective, would be able toanswer that question with the
most solid answer.
(13:37):
I guess.
Just from a medical standpoint,the number of just off-the-wall
answers we got in that groupwas astounding.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, it was alarming .
It was alarming so he said itgets a lot worse.
What is addiction?
What causes addiction?
What ends addiction?
What are the means to endingaddiction that you guys use?
Those are all great questions.
Yeah, and you know what it'lldo.
(14:08):
Guarantee you 80% of the time.
Guarantee you.
They call any number of theseprograms around the country just
these willingness random.
You're going to get a lot ofsilence on the phone of the
admissions.
You're going to stump thembecause most of them have this
little thing that they'resupposed to say right or that
they're used to saying.
Then you get a family say allright.
(14:30):
So what do you all believeaddiction is?
What do you do to treat thataddiction?
What are you going to do tostop that addiction?
What is your modality and whatis your belief?
It'll be very I have a hardtime getting my words out today
revealing as to what's reallygoing on in that program.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Well, and that doesn't just apply to addiction
treatment you know, you look atpeople coming out of you know
for themselves, coming out ofresidential care, going into
aftercare, going to see atherapist Like how do I know if
my therapist understandsaddiction recovery?
How do I know if mypsychiatrist understands
addiction recovery?
Or my doctor understandsaddiction recovery?
(15:08):
Or my interventionist that I'mabout to hire to come out and
get my loved one into treatment,how do I know that they
understand addiction?
Great questions to ask anybodyin this space that you're
considering bringing on to askfor help.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, but to be effective, you have to know
yourself, right, what addictionis and what it isn't, and what
the solution should be.
Yeah, so why don't you?
You want to hear the, the, theleast favorite answer, yes, or
the one that just had me shakingmy head, please.
Now this is from a professionalthat looks to be has been
(15:45):
around a long, long time,professional professor, like all
kinds of letters andexperiences, and gray, you know,
been doing this a long time.
One of those right, highlyeducated.
They should never begin with anadmission specialist, never,
then, went into SUD.
Patients' rights right.
(16:06):
So I get patients' rights.
I understand that, but I feelthat this is coming from a
different angle.
He's using a different angle Tohave an independent evaluation
to an informed consent to choosetreatment based on comparable
outcomes.
To know the risks and benefitsof all protocols and science
they are based on.
To know the qualifications andtraining of everyone providing
(16:29):
care to be offered several.
He's an educational consultanttoo, okay, so let me throw that
out there.
I figured, yeah, just listeningto what they're saying,
absolutely, starting off rightthere, because you need to hire
him in order to understand allthis.
Right To know thequalifications of training
everyone providing care and tobe offered several levels of
care, including MAT and harmreduction.
To be offered several levels ofcare, to include MAT and harm
(16:51):
reduction.
That alarmed me, not about theMAT but the to be offered, and
I'll get into why.
To not be charged for servicesthat are free in the community,
like AA step work.
To have treatment options neartheir homes when available.
To not have the communicationwith their community taken away.
To have significant otherfamily involvement from day one.
(17:13):
To be offered ambulatorywithdrawal management when
clinically indicated.
To be given an individualtreatment plan based on their
goals to which they agree.
To have support in thecommunity in which they live.
To be informed as to whatalternative care is also
available.
To know the average length oftreatment and all calls to be
offered the least restrictivetreatment available.
To be given completeinformation regarding diagnosis,
(17:38):
treatment and prognosis.
My issue with that is that Iunderstand all that I get it, I
get it and I don't disagree witheverything you said.
No, I don't either.
I really don't.
It's not about you know theyshouldn't have any rights.
That's not where I'm going.
But you're going to present allof this information.
What it sounds like to me ishey, we're going to inform an
(18:00):
individual, and as mucheducation and background and
experience as an individual likethis has is they miss the
simple fact that you're going topresent all this information to
an individual that isdisplaying signs of insanity and
leave it all up to them of whatthey do and sit here and wonder
(18:21):
why we're in the mess thatwe're in.
You know what I mean?
That's nonsense.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
There's this buzzword out there that I think a lot of
people buy into withoutunderstanding the implications,
and that's client-centered careor client-centered treatment,
where the client is the onedictating what's going to happen
.
There has to be choice.
(18:49):
This doesn't work in a completedictatorship, but at the same
time, of course, someone who'stwisted up drunk can't make the
decision.
I get that.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
But I'm talking with nothing in their system,
straight out of even out ofdetox.
Nothing in their system.
You know, people miss the factthat the most insane thing, the
decision that they make, theymake stone cold sober and that's
to get more.
In a stone cold, sober state ofmind, they make a decision to
get more, despite the flames andrubble in their life as a
(19:37):
result of going to get more.
In a sober state of mind, theymake a decision to get more.
And let's not even.
Let's look at it like this IfI'm walking down the street, if
I wake up every day and four orfive times a day I involuntarily
just knock myself and I punchmyself in the face, right, like
(19:59):
four or five times a day.
I do that Just walk around andall of a sudden just punch
myself in the faceuncontrollably, involuntarily,
and I don't want to do ituncontrollably, involuntarily
and I don't want to do it.
It wouldn't take long for me tostop at nothing and do whatever
is necessary to find out why Ikeep involuntarily punching
myself in the face, even when Idon't want to, and I'm trying
(20:20):
everything I can not to, but Ido it anyway.
I wouldn't stop at nothing, Iwould follow directions, I would
go to the greatest solutionthat I could find, but with an
addicted individual, thatdoesn't work that way.
We've got to haveinterventionists like us a lot
of the times to get in there andsay, hey man, look, your
(20:42):
family's worried about you.
This is what's happening andhere's a way out.
And they fight us on it toothand nail for a long time, based
on experiences, based on theactions, just like you say, not
what the individual says, butwhat they do.
Right, it's about watching amovie in a foreign film.
Do you think?
Are they displaying evidencethat shows that they are in a
(21:05):
place that they can weigh all ofthis information and make a
good decision?
Absolutely not, absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Some of it.
Yes, and, like I said, I don'twant to throw out the baby with
the bathwater there.
There was some valuableinformation, I think, in what he
said and some good insight intowhat he said, but I also think
that there was a lot in therethat you know.
I mean the first thing, like,don't start out by talking to an
admission specialist.
Well, not every family is goingto have $7,000 or $8,000 to
(21:40):
hire an educational consultantjust to choose a treatment
program and do all theassessment work and do all of
that because they've gotsomebody with a fentanyl
addiction, all the assessmentwork and do all of that because
they've got somebody with afentanyl addiction.
And whether they can affordseven or $8,000 to hire the ed
consultant or not and I'mballparking that number, I don't
know if that's the figure ornot, it's in the thousands.
I know that it's probablycomparable to what we charge
when we go out and do anintervention, but you got
(22:04):
somebody who's got a severefentanyl addiction, let's say at
risk for overdose every singleday.
You want to make a gooddecision as a family on which
treatment center you're going tochoose, but do you have time to
go through addiction or activemethamphetamine addiction, with
(22:25):
methamphetamine psychosis is isthat going to be the best
information to make thatassessment with?
Or does there need to be aperiod of stabilization before
that happens?
And and so like?
There's there's so manyvariables in in this that I I I
don't want to entirely discountwhoever this was, but at the
same time, I think that there'sa lack of understanding of what
(22:50):
families are going through inthat moment and the crisis that
they're in.
At the same time, I think, whenyou know when he, when he warns
against talking to an admissionspecialist first, I think there
are some predators out therethat will take advantage of that
crisis and and and get a familysold on something that may or
(23:12):
may not work, just to get theminto a treatment center.
So I can see it both ways.
But at the same time, I thinkthere's a crisis here that just
can't, sometimes that time can'tbe afforded to to, to, to be
spent in that, that that workahead of time sometimes.
And and you know, again, Iagain I don't want to badmouth
anybody, but I think there's alack of insight there and a lack
(23:32):
of understanding of what we'rereally dealing with.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yeah, look, I'm not discounting all the stuff he
says.
Right, and in an ideal world,every family would go to a
professional and get someguidance and understanding
before they pick up the phoneand just start willy-nilly
calling treatment centers orGoogle them.
Absolutely, I agree 100% inthat.
100%, it's not going to happen.
It's not going to happen.
These families out here incrisis and in panic mode, just
(23:57):
calling around the treatmentcenters when the shit hits the
fan and going to which one takesthe insurance and which one
they can afford, or what haveyou, or which one's in whatever,
in their hometown or whateverthe case may be.
Look, I'm in full support of hey, educate yourself before you
make decisions like this,because it's very important and
(24:18):
these treatment centers are adime a dozen.
I'm not even bad-mouthingtreatment centers, it's just a
fact.
There they are a dime a dozen.
Out here there's thousands ofthem, thousands and thousands.
Families need to be educatedbefore they do it, but a large
majority of them are not goingto be All right.
So to make it, to make sometype of a dent, is like hey,
what are three?
Because they're going to callan admissions person.
(24:40):
They're going to do that Likewhat are some.
What are some questions thatthey should be asking that are
that that are not.
Hey, how much are you and doyou take insurance, or will you
take oh?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
absolutely and listen .
If you're an ed consultant andnot this person but any ed
consultant and you want to reachmore people to provide these
assessment services and be ableto provide these recommendations
to people, but families can'taccess you financially, get on
intervention on call.
Come on and do it an hour at atime with us and let's compare
(25:11):
and see like are the outcomesthere?
And if they are, I'd love tochange the way that I do.
If there's better ways of doingthings out there and we can see
that the data supports that man, I'm all in.
But when you say this is whatneeds to happen, we'll make that
accessible, like we're doing onintervention on call to
families that either can'tafford or don't need an
(25:32):
intervention, and let's makethose tools available to
everybody.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah, and you know what.
That's how you delight yourcustomer, make it available to
the masses.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
What are some of the other answers to that question
that you got?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Let me see, let's look here bud.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I shouldn't say that that gentleman was offering what
he felt like was a greatopinion, and I shouldn't say
that it was bad.
Thank you for answering thequestion.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, definitely.
I appreciate his input.
Maybe I perceived it as alittle sideways, but it just
really didn't answer thequestion, didn't understand the
assignment.
That's all right.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
But other than that.
Let's move on to somebody thatmaybe did.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Guy said can I tour the property before I make a
decision?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Why do you think that's important?
I agree, but why do you thinkthat's important if they can
afford to take the time to dothat?
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Hey, you know some of these people you see on social
media they got so many filtersand diamond and gold and glitter
and paint make you look likesomething that you ain't.
Well, a treatment center can dothe same thing through their
admissions team and they can doit on their pictures on the
website and in theirdescriptions.
Nothing, nothing beats goingand kicking the tires.
You know, I've seen manyvehicles online that look really
(26:46):
good online and you go to themand they're not so many houses,
everything right.
So kick your feet.
Meet the staff.
Feel the energy of the programis the main thing I know.
For me, I can walk on site andfeel the energy of what it is
and what it isn't, almostimmediately walking in the door.
And I visited some programswhere it was just the energy was
just super dark, all justoozing out of the patients and
(27:12):
just the lackadaisical staff.
You know like you can feel it,you can see it, like you'll see
it firsthand.
You know and you can feel itfirsthand.
Meet the team, meet the staff,tour where they're going to be,
what their day-to-day is, get aschedule.
You know I'm all about touring,but you but most of our people
go out of state, different statefrom where they originate from.
(27:35):
So just going to tour canfinancially just not be or
logistically just can't work,but I think I support that a
hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Well, and some facilities will either have a
virtual tour on their website or, if you're talking to somebody
and you can't get there ahead oftime, you know hey, is there
any way?
Do you happen to have a virtualtour that you can send me, that
I can see the property andmaybe hear some of the staff?
Or, you know, and for treatmentcenters that are out there that
potentially could be hearingthis?
I'd love for people to startputting more of that together
because of the, the, the abilityto travel to other states that
(28:08):
a lot of families have, you know, it's just a good way for them
to put eyes on beforehand.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
What are the expectations forparent involvement if a minor or
support person involved?
If the client has an outsidetreatment team, how involved can
they be when the client isadmitted to the program?
Will they be updated on goals,progress involved?
How informed do you want to be,matt, when you're the
professional and you've sentsomeone to treatment?
(28:34):
How informed do you want to bekept in the loop with?
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I'm struggling a little bit right now.
I've got a husband and wife intreatment and I'm just trying to
help the family out.
They ended up going totreatment without an
intervention.
It was a family that I hadworked with on intervention on
call.
The husband and wife both wentto different treatment centers
and I've tried to stay in theloop because the family wants
some ongoing support, just interms of planning aftercare,
(28:58):
making sure that they'recommitted to aftercare, those
kinds of things.
And when the family is reachingout to me going, hey, do you
know what's going on over thereand I haven't had an update,
it's entirely frustratingbecause I cannot provide the
family with the information thatthey're looking for.
They're not getting informationfrom the treatment team and and
(29:20):
it just feels like the the theclient is out there on an Island
and, hey, we'll let you knowwhen we're done with them and
we'll let you know what the planis and that's usually within,
you know, the last three or fourdays of the treatment
experience and it's tough.
It's tough to plan effectiveaftercare when you don't have
the kind of communication thatyou need and you know, when you
(29:43):
talk about referringprofessionals or when you talk
about treatment teams, whetherthe person had a therapist or a
psychiatrist or you know, ifthere's a medical issue.
You know they've got liverissues or pancreatic issues
because of alcoholism andthey've got, you know, a doctor
that's been working with them.
When the, when the team at thetreatment center isn't willing
to communicate with thoseoutside professionals, I think
they're doing themselves and theclient a disservice.
(30:04):
It takes more effort, it takesmore energy, but I think that a
lot of times there's thisthought process of well, if that
was working, they wouldn't comehere, so we're not going to go
back to systems that didn't workand so we're just going to
provide the services that weprovide here and then we'll
figure it out, and I think thatthat's just the wrong approach
(30:24):
to take.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yeah, yeah, I don't you know.
I don't want to be left in thedark, but I make it clear that
as soon as they walk in the door, I'm taking a supportive role
with the family and I'm here tosupport the team at the facility
and anything that they need.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
that I understand that that individual is in their
care.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
They're going there because they're trusted, and
expect them to do a job and tolet them do that job until maybe
their actions, or lack ofactions, require me to step in
and take a more assertive roleon behalf of the family to make
sure that things are done theway they should be done.
You know, just to stay in mylane though you know the lane
(31:05):
that I'm supposed to be in.
I don't try to overstep thatlane.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
One of the first treatment centers I worked at.
It was the first treatmentcenter that I worked at.
It was in Arizona and we workedwith a lot of referring
professionals, whether it was ata consultants or
interventionists, and and it wasalways frustrating, when we'd
get a call from a professional,they'd refer us somebody, but
then they would say, well, Iwant them with this therapist
(31:30):
and I want them to see thistherapist and I want them doing
this, and it's like they're theones mapping out the treatment
plan and and it's like, wait aminute, you know we will work
with you and we want tocommunicate with you and we want
all this input, but but we'vegot a really good, good
treatment program here and andyou know, we will collaborate
with you and we will work withyou and we will be flexible, but
(31:52):
please don't dictate to us whatwe do.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
You know and, and in the same way that I, I would not
want a treatment centerreferring me an intervention and
then saying, okay, here's howthe intervention should go.
I'm open to any of that impactor any of that input, because
it's going to make me better forthat family if I have all that
information.
But please don't tell me how todo what I've spent the last 20
(32:17):
years learning how to do.
I feel like I'm good at it, butI'll be better at it if you
share it with me.
But let me do what I do, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
I had that experience last week.
Family was leaning on a familyfriend that worked in the
industry Wasn't aninterventionist and there were
two friends that are going to bea part of the intervention and
I said, you know, when thecheck-in one of the check-ins
throughout the day I was likeare these friends going to be at
the rehearsal on the?
night of the rehearsal it waslike no, we've got him.
(32:45):
They're going to stay with suchand such to make sure that they
don't drink.
And I'm like, where'd that comefrom?
And well, it was advised to usby such and such.
You know they work at thisprogram.
I'm like you know, the morning,the night before is never as
important as the morning of youknow, as far as, like, you know
(33:10):
whether he drinks or not, youknow, like, whether he drinks or
doesn't drinks or doesn't drinkis not an issue, unless he's
gets on the road and is drivingbehind the wheel, then we've got
to, you know, take preventivemeasures for that.
But you know, the power ofthese friends being a part of
this intervention and being apart of the rehearsal is way
more important than whether thisguy drinks or not.
(33:32):
My experience shows me that mytraining shows me that, common
sense shows me that.
So having another professionalin there sticking, his beak in
that doesn't have the experienceto do with what we're doing,
you know, causes a few problems.
You know, maybe I'm throwingpeople under the bus today, man,
I feel like right, I'm justlike, but think about it.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Like, how many times have you done an intervention in
the last decade where theperson did use or drink the
night before or you know thewithin the week before and that
caused them to have anexperience that was so negative
that they may not have beenopen-minded to what you were
going to say or the family wasgoing to say up to that point,
(34:16):
but maybe they did go out anddrive and got arrested two days
before the intervention or thenight of the intervention.
Maybe they got into an accident.
It's like you know what, whileI don't want know what, that
well, while I don't want to wishthat on anybody, that was the
thing that caused someone tohave an open mind and become a
little bit more open to the ideaof getting help.
And and the more we try tocontrol I, I think the more
(34:42):
we're eliminating the spiritualcomponent of this and and kind
of cutting God out of theexperience.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, that was my main thing to the family.
It was listen.
This is doing nothing to helpyou relinquish?
Your delusion that you're incontrol of your loved one.
That type of action is nothelping that.
Let him sit, let him be, gethim to the rehearsal.
That's more valuable thanbabysitting Buddy.
(35:10):
I got to get to a wedding,charmaine's getting married
today.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Really Well tell her I said hello and congratulations
.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Isn't she genius getting married on a Thursday
evening.
Yeah, brilliant, brilliant.
I love her for it.
Love her for it.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, give her my best.
You have a wonderful time atthe wedding and we'll see you
again on the next one, man.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Hey, appreciate you.
Man Enjoyed this.
Everyone be well.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Thanks again for listening to the party records.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(35:58):
don't enable addiction ever.
On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Let's talk again soon.
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