April 30, 2025 • 31 mins
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The question Matt Brown hears most frequently in his work as an addiction interventionist is deceptively simple yet profoundly challenging: "How do I get my loved one to accept help?" In this powerful return episode of the Party Wreckers podcast, Brown draws from decades of experience to provide families with practical, compassionate strategies for breaking through resistance and creating pathways to recovery.
Matt begins by dismantling the myth that addiction is a choice, comparing it to the overwhelming urge to scratch a chickenpox itch despite knowing the consequences. "Nobody wakes up and decides, 'Hey, I think I'm going to burn my life to the ground today,'" he explains. Rather, addiction functions as a desperate attempt to self-medicate against underlying trauma, mental health issues, or emotional pain that feels unbearable without chemical assistance.
At the heart of this episode is the powerful parallel between the addict's struggle and the family's enabling patterns. Matt reveals how both sides operate from the same emotional avoidance - the addict using substances to escape feelings, while family members enable to avoid guilt, conflict, and discomfort. "Addiction can't survive for any length of time without enabling," Brown states, comparing the relationship to oxygen feeding a fire. By examining three primary forms of enabling - financial support, emotional coddling, and silence - families can begin identifying their contributions to the cycle.
Matt provides transformative guidance on establishing and communicating boundaries, emphasizing language that signals true resolve: replacing "I can't do this anymore" with "I will no longer do this." He explains why family unity proves crucial in intervention success, noting that the 10-15% of people who initially refuse help often do so because they don't believe boundaries are real. When families stand firm while continuing to express love, the message becomes clear: "We're no longer going to let your addiction dictate the rules and hold this family hostage."
For families feeling afraid of potential consequences - from homelessness to incarceration or worse - Brown offers balanced perspective and hope. "Those things ar
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Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist. While a professional intervention can be a powerful experience for change, not every family needs a professionally led intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professional intervention, we can help. Hour sessions are $150.
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If you want to know more about the host's private practice please visit:
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Matt: @mattbrowninterventionist<
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
seasoned addictioninterventionist, Matt Brown.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism.
(00:22):
Perhaps they are reluctant toget the help that they need.
We are here to educate andentertain you while removing the
fear from the conversation.
Stick with us and we will getyou through it.
Welcome the original partywrecker, Matt Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Welcome to another episode of the Party Wreckers
podcast.
This is a long time coming.
After quite a long hiatus, I'mback and recording another
episode.
Thank you for being patientwhile things were kind of
getting back on track, but Iwant to talk in this episode
about.
You know, I guess the best wayto explain it is over the last
(01:17):
year, year and a half,intervention On Call has been
hosting weekly Now we're doingit twice a week, every Monday
and every Thursday weekly familysupport calls where we get
families that are in crisis,whose loved ones are in active
addiction, and we often ask themto submit questions ahead of
(01:41):
time so that we can address alot of these questions while we
have families.
We may be getting anywhere from60 to 70 families every meeting
that we have, 60 on Mondays andagain on Thursdays, and so the
turnout's been great.
But one of the questions thatwe consistently get is how do I
(02:02):
get my loved one to the pointwhere they're willing to accept
help?
And there's so much that goesinto this question that I wanted
to actually make an episode ofthe podcast that would address
this question.
I don't want to belabor it, butI also want to spend some time
(02:22):
really getting into how to dothis, because as an
interventionist, this is exactlywhat I do and I don't think
that every family needs to havesomebody like me come into their
living room and do anintervention.
Sometimes that's necessary.
Sometimes you've got an erosionof confidence on both sides,
(02:43):
where the family hasconsistently tried to set
boundaries, only to have thoseboundaries get ignored or not
get enforced and the addictedindividual actually begins to
lose confidence and lose trustin the family if they can even
hold those boundaries.
And so in a case like that, alot of times I am recommending
that a family does engagesomebody on a professional
(03:06):
capacity to come in and do anactual intervention.
Most of the time in my coachingsessions with families I'm able
to really give themopportunities and new language
and new structure, newboundaries to help them do this
on their own.
But let's start at the beginning.
You know a family has justidentified that they've got a
(03:27):
loved one that this is not goingto get better on its own.
I think for a long timefamilies really operate in that
space of.
You know, let's just see ifthis can't self-correct, let's
see if we can't get our lovedone to really turn this around
on their own and for most peoplethat's overly optimistic.
(03:53):
When you've crossed that lineinto addiction, as much as we
don't want to live that life,it's very, very difficult for us
to course correct on our own,for the simple reason that, for
as much as we don't want it, wealso don't want to relinquish
(04:16):
control, and we will fight orcontrol, sometimes at our peril.
You know, I, speaking personally, was at a point where I was
homeless, I was penniless, I wasunemployable, and yet I still
held on to this belief that Iwas somehow going to pull myself
(04:37):
out of it, that I was going tofind the formula that would
allow me to be successful.
And of course, it wasdelusional thinking, but I
believed my own story.
At that point, I really didbelieve that I could do this on
my own.
(04:57):
Now, for families, when you seesomebody struggling and I want
to say this as delicately as Ican, but I also want to be
straightforward and honest aboutit as well At some point the
family really has to just kindof break their own denial and
say, okay, this is not working.
What we're doing right now isnot working, and you really have
to be willing to ask yourselfis what I'm doing, providing the
(05:21):
results that I'm hoping to get,and if the answer is no, that's
okay.
This problem doesn't come withan instruction manual, and in
every family there's a certainlevel of dysfunction that's in
operation, and I mean everyfamily.
There's no such thing as aperfect family out there.
(05:42):
As much as we want to projectthat on social media and as much
as we want to make our friendsbelieve that, hey, everything in
our house is okay, it's not.
I can't tell you how many timesI've been traveling around the
country over the last 20 yearsand I can be sitting next to
somebody on a plane and we'llget into a conversation where
they'll ask me what I do.
I'll mention that I'm aninterventionist.
(06:04):
The next thing, you know, I'm inthe middle of a story with them
about somebody that they know,somebody that they love, that
struggled, or that is an activestruggle, with addiction.
This is a problem that affectsevery single family almost
without fail.
I have yet I mean, I can'trecall many people that I've
(06:25):
talked to over the years thathaven't been touched by this
problem in some way, shape orform.
So I think we have to reallysmash the idea that this isn't
happening in our house.
This is happening, and ifyou're listening to this podcast
, there's a really good chancethat this is happening in your
home, and that's okay.
It doesn't mean that you failed.
(06:46):
It doesn't mean that you're abad parent or a bad spouse.
It just means that somebody inyour family is struggling with a
problem that's too big for themto conquer on their own and
likely it's too big for you toconquer as you try to help them.
And so I think that's the firstthing you have to kind of
reconcile is that I don't knowhow to handle this.
What I'm doing is not working,because if they knew how to fix
(07:09):
the problem, they would havedone it already.
If I knew how to fix theproblem, I would have done it
already.
With what is it that I'm reallyfighting against here?
And you know this gets back to?
Is addiction a disease?
(07:29):
Is addiction a choice?
I think it's universallyaccepted At least I hope it's
universally accepted now thataddiction is not a choice, it is
a disease.
Nobody wakes up and decides hey,I think I'm going to burn my
life to the ground today.
I think that it would be areally good idea for me to
destroy relationships, lose myjob, you know, really really
just wreck my life and hurt alot of people in the process.
(07:50):
Nobody sets out to do that, wejust, you know, the analogy that
I'll use a lot of times withfamilies is that, you know,
imagine back to the days whereyou know for those of us that
are old enough to remember thisthat you had chickenpox and the
incredible compulsion that youhad to scratch that itch.
(08:14):
No matter how much your momtold you, stop scratching,
you're going to get infected.
That itch, no matter how muchyour mom told you stop
scratching, you're going to getinfected.
You're going to get scars.
You're going to regret it.
It didn't matter.
All I could think about wasscratching that itch.
I didn't care about theconsequences, I didn't care if I
got scars, I didn't care if Igot infections.
I knew that wasn't going tohappen that moment, and that
(08:35):
itch was so powerful that all Icould think about was scratching
it.
That's kind of like what it'slike to have an addiction.
The itch is so powerful and itcomes from a number of different
sources.
It can come from untreatedmental health issues.
It can come from unresolvedchildhood trauma or abuse or
neglect or abandonment, or griefor loss.
(08:58):
There's so many differentreasons why the pain exists,
that we're trying toself-medicate.
But as soon as I was old enoughto have experienced alcohol for
the first time and took thatfirst drink and realized like,
oh, I mean, I don't have to feelthis, I don't have to feel the
(09:18):
anxiety and the fear and theloneliness and the depression
and the guilt and the anger andthe shame All of that just went
away when I consumed enough ofthis magic potion.
The only thing I can thinkabout is I got to do this again
tomorrow.
That was me scratching that itchand of course that escalated
(09:39):
from there and it graduated toother substances along the way
and other behaviors along theway.
And that's what we're really upagainst is the person is trying
to solve an internal,paralyzing, excruciating problem
with an external solution andgoing to a treatment facility,
(10:03):
getting into a 12-step program.
Finding a way to treat thatitch is more important than the
itch itself.
And I think a lot of times wefocus on the behavior.
Hey, if you'll just stopdrinking, if you'll just stop
using those drugs or gambling orwhatever the behavior is, if
(10:25):
you'll just stop, life will getbetter.
And I think that as youendeavor to get yourself
educated, there will be thisdiscovery that that's really not
the case.
When you take drugs and alcoholaway from somebody like me,
somebody like your loved one,who's struggling, life is not
going to get better right away.
It's going to get much, muchworse, because now I have to
(10:48):
feel everything that I've beentrying to not feel.
Now there's another side to thiscoin, and that is that the
family is engaged in anincredible amount of enabling.
Most of the time it's kind oflike the relationship between
oxygen and fire.
(11:08):
A fire can't survive for verylong without oxygen.
It goes out very quickly whenyou remove the oxygen.
And addiction can't survive forany length of time without
enabling.
Not that the removal of theenabling itself is the end-all,
be-all for addiction.
That's kind of the flaw in thatmetaphor.
But I hope that it helps toreally kind of explain, like
(11:30):
when you take away the enabling,it allows the problem to be
arrested long enough for anothersolution to come along and get
implemented, or at least thefire's not going to get bigger.
And so the reason that we asfamily members will enable is
the very reason that those thatare in active addiction are in
(11:53):
active addiction, and that isthat I don't want to feel what
I'm going to feel if I don'tengage in those behaviors.
I don't want to feel what I'mgoing to feel if I don't engage
in those behaviors.
I don't want to feel like I'm abad dad.
I don't want to feel like I'm abad brother or husband or
partner.
So I will convince myself thatI'm doing this out of love, and
I think that for the most part,that's probably true.
(12:14):
We're doing this because welove this person.
We don't actually want to hurtthem.
But the bigger reason is is Idon't want to feel the guilt
that I'm going to feel if Idon't do this.
And when we get honest withourselves about that, we can
(12:35):
really start to take a look atokay, why am I really doing this
?
I know I shouldn't be.
I know I should stop doing this, but I can't.
How many times do you thinkyour loved one has said that to
themselves?
I don't want to do this anymore, but I can't stop.
It's the exact same thing thatyou're wrestling with as
somebody who's enabling theaddict as they're wrestling with
(12:55):
.
I know I shouldn't do this, butI can't keep from doing it.
I can't keep from making surethey have money in their gas
tank, or making sure they've gotfood, or giving them money,
because they're asking for moneyfor food, but then they go and
use it for drugs, and I knowthat's what they're going to do.
I'm just hoping that they'regoing to use it for what they're
telling me they're going to useit for.
(13:16):
And we get stuck in that cycleof well, maybe this time it'll
work.
And it's the same thing we tellourselves as active addicts and
active alcoholics, that maybethis time it'll be different and
without some new tools in ourtoolbox, it's rarely going to be
the case, and so I think,getting back to the point that I
(13:39):
was making, is that we've gotto really get educated about
what it is we're reallystruggling with on both sides of
this.
What is it that the personwho's in active addiction is
really struggling with, and whatis it that the family's really
struggling?
Because this disease operateson two different planes.
It operates on the addictionside, with the individual, and
(14:00):
it operates on the codependencyside, with the family, and until
we really look at it as asystemic problem and really
start to implement a systemicsolution, it's very unlikely
that this problem is going toself-correct.
Now.
From there, it's about changingthe conversation.
Now that we have someunderstanding about, okay, I
(14:25):
better understand what it is I'mdealing with.
What is it that I have tochange in my conversation?
And you know, the thing thatcomes up consistently on these
weekly family calls isboundaries.
How do I know when I need tocreate boundaries with my loved
one, how do I enforce thoseboundaries?
How do I communicate thoseboundaries without creating
(14:46):
conflict?
And and here's where that getstricky.
I think that a lot of times westart to play this game of
mental chess with addiction andwe really just need to be
playing checkers.
We really need to dumb it downand simplify it.
When we can, we have thecapacity to really
overcomplicate this.
(15:06):
We start to think, well, if Isay this, then they're going to
do this, so I have to do this,and then this is going to happen
, and so I'm going to need to dothis to stop that, and and we
just get and we try to get somany moves ahead that it just
gets really cumbersome andcomplicated and the next thing,
you know, it's like well, gosh,I don't even know where to start
.
(15:27):
The first thing you have to askyourself and, as I'm working
with families, as we're planningan intervention.
There's two questions that Iask every family to ask
themselves.
The first is am I enabling theaddiction in any way?
Am I enabling it financially?
Am I enabling it emotionally?
Am I enabling it just bystaying silent?
And the emotional enablingisn't that it really looks more
(15:52):
like I'm going to try to makethis person feel better in the
moment than actually tell themthe truth about what's really
going on.
When I would have a girlfriendbreak my heart or I would have
somebody do something to mewhere I felt like I was the one
being the victim, a lot of timespeople in my life would just
(16:13):
tell me hey, it's going to beokay.
You know what?
She probably wasn't the rightone for you.
This probably wasn't the rightthing for you to be doing.
Instead of saying, hey, maybeyou're the problem, maybe
there's some different choicesyou could be making and some
different things that you can doto get some help that could
avoid this problem in the future, instead of telling me what I
needed to hear, people weretelling me what would make me
(16:36):
feel better in the moment.
I think a lot of times we fallinto that trap where we just
want somebody to have a littlebit of hope that, hey, this is,
this is going to be okay and andnot that we need to beat people
over the head and say you'rethe problem.
But at the same time we wewithhold the truth, sometimes
thinking that they'll figure itout.
(16:57):
Sometimes our enabling comes inthe form of silence, where it's
just I don't want to talk aboutthe elephant in the room, I
don't want the conflict, I don'twant the eruption that's going
to happen if I bring this upagain, so I'm just going to
ignore it and we'll live tofight another day.
And you do that once or twice.
That's probably not enabling,but you put enough of those days
(17:18):
and weeks together where theelephant doesn't get talked
about and that definitelybecomes enabling behavior.
And so those are really theprimary ways where I see loved
ones enabling the addiction.
The other question that I wantfamilies to ask themselves is is
the addiction harming me in anyway?
Is it harming me financially?
Is it harming me emotionally?
(17:38):
Is it harming me physically?
And it harming me emotionallyIs it harming me physically?
I don't necessarily meanphysical abuse, although
sometimes that happens.
I'm really talking about thestress, the anxiety, the neglect
that we have for ourselves andour well-being, the lack of
sleep and self-care that we giveto ourselves, because so much
(17:59):
of our bandwidth is spentfocused on this other person
that we just abandon ourselvesin the process and the health
problems begin.
The relationship problems beginwith other relationships that
are important and otherimportant priorities get
neglected.
And so if the answer to eitherof those questions is yes, then
(18:22):
and the next question can't bewell, what do they have to
change?
Because we can't control them.
The next question has to be whatdo I have to change in my
behavior so that either I'm nolonger enabling them which
really means so that I'm nolonger causing them harm, and so
that I'm not allowing this toharm me in the ways that it has
(18:43):
up until now as well, harm me inthe ways that it has up until
as well?
And so, as we really get honestabout that, that's where we
really start to get clear onwhat are my boundaries needing
to be right?
Have I enabled this financially?
Do I need to stop giving themmoney?
Do I need to not allow them tolive in my home anymore because
I'm just providing a place forthem to continue living in their
(19:03):
addiction?
Do I need to stop providingthem a vehicle so they can no
longer go out and participate intheir addiction?
Do I need to stop providingthem a vehicle so they can no
longer go out and participate intheir addiction?
Do I need to stop providingthem with a phone so they can
stop communicating with thepeople that are facilitating
their addiction?
All of these things come intoplay.
Sometimes the boundary needs tobe hey, until you have decided
to get some help, I can't engagein a relationship with you,
(19:26):
because I can't trust thatyou're not going to be honest
with me.
I can't trust that you're notgoing to try to manipulate me.
I can't trust that you're goingto be kind.
My experience is that you canbe abusive verbally and
emotionally, and so I don't wantto put myself in that situation
anymore.
So sometimes the relationshiphas to be put on hold until that
(19:47):
person has decided that they'reready to get some help.
Sometimes it's exactly theopposite.
Sometimes the response is hey,I've stayed quiet about this for
far too long and I'm not goingto be afraid to talk about this
anymore.
So, as we move forward, I hopewe can talk on a regular basis,
but I need you to know thatevery time we talk, it doesn't
(20:08):
have to be the only thing wetalk about, but every time we
talk, I'm going to ask you ifyou are ready to get some help,
and if the answer is no, hey,that's okay.
If you're under the influencewhen we're talking, I'm going to
ask you to call me back whenyou're sober.
If we're together at a function, at a family get together or
whatever, and you're under theinfluence, either I'm going to
(20:30):
leave or, if you're at my place,I'm going to ask you to leave.
I'm not going to be a partnerto your addiction anymore.
And so it's really about beingclear on what do I have to do to
change those boundaries?
And then it's.
The next step is how do Icommunicate that in a way where
(20:53):
they know that I love them?
But there's no room formisinterpretation, there's no
room for loopholes andmanipulation and those kinds of
things again, and what I wouldsuggest is that you remove the
language from your vocabulary ofI can't do this anymore,
because history shows that withenough pressure applied, you can
(21:17):
and you will.
For most of us, yes means yesand no just means we need to try
a little bit harder to get youto say yes, and so the
conversation has to really, andthe language that you hear
yourself speak has to change tothe point where now it's I will
no longer do this.
I won't give you money anymore,I won't allow you to live in my
(21:40):
home anymore, because I'm notgoing to provide a place for
your addiction to thrive.
I'm not going to provide aplace for your addiction to
thrive.
I'm not going to provide avehicle for you anymore.
Instead of saying I can't letyou live here anymore, I can't
give you money anymore, there'sjust a different message that
gets sent both to the individualand to you, sending this
message to yourself when you usethat language of I will no
(22:02):
longer be a party to this.
I love you and I hope thatyou'll make the decision to get
some help.
We get told that, hey, how canyou do this to me?
(22:31):
I remember when my family gaveme the opportunity to get some
help and I was livid because theoption was either I can go and
get some help or I was going tohave to leave their home.
And here I'm thinking you know,you're my parents and it's your
job to take care of me, andyou're going to be really awful
(22:53):
parents if you send me out to gofend for myself and I tried to
gaslight them into thinking thatthey were the problem and that
they were creating a biggerproblem.
They were putting me at risk bynot taking care of me.
Luckily, they didn't fall forit, but I think that a lot of
families that I've interactedwith both you know, as an
interventionist in privatepractice and on these weekly
(23:15):
family calls so many familiesexperienced that guilt trip of
how could you do this to me?
And it becomes really importantthat you're clear on hey, I'm
giving you an option.
You're just saying no, there'sfood, there's wonderful food at
this treatment center.
You don't need to be hungry.
They will provide you withthree square meals a day and
(23:39):
probably some snacks in between.
Not going to have to sleep onthe sidewalk.
There's a wonderful,comfortable bed in this
treatment program where you'regoing to be able to sleep and
they're probably even going towash your sheets for you.
You don't even have to cleanthe sheets.
You're going to have some ofthese things taken care of, but
you're choosing not to.
(23:59):
And so now you're asking me tostep in and provide something
for you, because you want to dothis on your terms, and I see
this so often that we want adifferent life, but we want to
do it on our terms, we want todo it in our way, and so many
times that puts the family at adisadvantage, because we expect
(24:23):
the family to get on board withour plan instead of finding a
way to become willing to do thisa different way than we've done
up until that point.
And so, as a family member, asa group, you really have to come
together and get united on.
Here's where we're going to gowith this, and if there's a lack
(24:44):
of unity in the group, getunited before you ever sit down
with your loved one.
That's going to be critical,because if I know there's a weak
link in the chain, I'm goingafter that person first.
I'm going to try to manipulatethem before I ever agree to make
some changes, because I want tosee if those boundaries
(25:04):
actually are real.
To make some changes, because Iwant to see if those boundaries
actually are real.
And it's really, reallyimportant that families stay
united in this, because myexperience as an interventionist
is about 85 to 90% of the time,the people that I intervene on
will go to treatment on the daythat we do the intervention,
(25:24):
because we've come up with amessage that really helps them
understand that the rules havechanged.
We're no longer going to letyour addiction dictate the rules
and hold this family hostage.
Sometimes, when they do say no,it's because they don't believe
that the boundaries are real.
This jerk, matt Brown, has comein here and he's told everybody
(25:46):
to say what they're saying.
He's brainwashed them intosaying things that they've never
said before, and so as soon asI can get him out of the living
room, I'll go back to doing whatI do, and they'll go back to
doing what they do, and thestatus quo gets restored.
And so sometimes there has tobe some learning.
That happens that, oh, this hasreally changed.
(26:07):
They really meant what theysaid, and they've got some
support from from a professionaland they've got some support
from each other to make surethat this, these wagons, stay
circled and and I'm not going tobe able to to divide and
conquer anymore than I'm used toI'm not going to be able to get
them fighting with each otherand and, and then be able to
manipulate to get my way.
(26:28):
So that's going to be animportant piece, and I know that
I'm kind of throwing a lot outhere and I'm hoping that I'm not
going too fast, but this isjust something that has come up
so often, so recently that Ijust felt like it was time to do
something more robust aboutthis and I thought this would be
a good topic for the podcast.
(26:51):
And so, as you're communicatingthese, don't worry about their
reaction.
Let them react.
However they're going to react,just know that you've got to
plant your feet where you standand not be moved, and do it with
love.
And when they have that strongreaction, you can just say hey,
(27:11):
I understand why you're angry, Ijust need you to understand my,
my, my answer is not going tochange.
This is where the line is, andand you're welcome to make a
different choice.
But as far as I'm concerned,right now, this is this is what
I'm willing to support, this iswhat I'm not willing to support,
and you need to make yourchoices accordingly.
I love you and I hope thatyou'll choose to get help, but
(27:34):
if you don't, I'm going to loveyou enough to let you experience
what you're choosing toexperience and then step back
and let them have thatexperience, because sometimes
life has to teach us what we'renot willing to learn any other
way.
And it's scary and I'm not goingto sit here and tell you that
it's not.
It is.
It's really, really scarybecause we're dealing with a
(27:55):
problem that ultimately is goingto be fatal.
It lands people in prison, itlands people in the hospital, it
lands people in the cemeteryand I don't say that flippantly.
Those are real consequences,but most of the time people will
choose a different path beforeit gets to that, most of the
(28:16):
time, and so if you'll set backand let them have that
experience, it may mean thatthey get arrested and there's no
preventing that.
There's.
You trying to prevent them fromgoing to jail, you trying to
prevent them from being hungryis only going to buffer them
from some of the things thatneed to happen, sometimes just
(28:38):
the natural consequences oftheir choices.
But those things aren't ascatastrophic as what waits for
them if the addiction continues.
You know arrest records can getcleaned up.
You know relationships can getmended.
I really want to try to give yousome hope that if you will
(29:03):
allow yourself to step back andin the meantime, as you're
stepping back, do everything youcan to continue to strengthen
yourself and your recovery.
Come to the Monday and Thursdaynight meetings that we have.
Get involved with some of thefamilies and with some of the
other interventionists that areon the Intervention On Call
platform.
Let us be the ones to kind ofwalk you through this and
(29:25):
continue to support you on this.
That's what we're here for andto really surround yourself with
people who are going to buoyyou up and and help you
understand that you're not alone.
There are so many families goingthrough this same problem and
if you can get connected withthem whether it's in Al-Anon,
(29:45):
whether it's in adult childrenof alcoholics and dysfunctional
families or CODA or, like I said, the weekly family meetings
that we do you'll find thatyou're not alone and, as
somebody in recovery, to be ableto go to a meeting and know
that I'm not the only crazyperson in there that's thinking
the things that I'm thinking ona regular basis is a big deal.
(30:08):
I feel like I'm in a placewhere I'm understood and
sometimes we really need thatand I really want to encourage
you, as family members, to allowyourself the opportunity to get
that.
I hope this has been helpful.
If there's more that you need,I want to encourage you to reach
out.
You can email me at matt atpartyrecordscom.
(30:28):
You can find me atfreedominterventionscom.
You can find me atinterventiononcallcom.
You are welcome to reach out andconnect with me.
I'm more than happy to help.
This is what I doprofessionally.
I'd love to connect with you onone of our family calls.
Those are completely free, Ihope.
Like I said, I hope that thishas helped and I hope that it's
(30:50):
given you some focus and somedirection and some hope on how
maybe you can do this a littlebit differently.
I will be putting out moreepisodes on a more consistent
basis going forward.
Thank you for tuning in andsticking with me through the end
of this one.
I wish you well and I hope yourloved one will get sober and
stay sober, thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(31:33):
don't enable addiction ever.
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
seasoned addictioninterventionist, Matt Brown.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism.
(00:22):
Perhaps they are reluctant toget the help that they need.
We are here to educate andentertain you while removing the
fear from the conversation.
Stick with us and we will getyou through it.
Welcome the original partywrecker, Matt Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Welcome to another episode of the Party Wreckers
podcast.
This is a long time coming.
After quite a long hiatus, I'mback and recording another
episode.
Thank you for being patientwhile things were kind of
getting back on track, but Iwant to talk in this episode
about.
You know, I guess the best wayto explain it is over the last
(01:17):
year, year and a half,intervention On Call has been
hosting weekly Now we're doingit twice a week, every Monday
and every Thursday weekly familysupport calls where we get
families that are in crisis,whose loved ones are in active
addiction, and we often ask themto submit questions ahead of
(01:41):
time so that we can address alot of these questions while we
have families.
We may be getting anywhere from60 to 70 families every meeting
that we have, 60 on Mondays andagain on Thursdays, and so the
turnout's been great.
But one of the questions thatwe consistently get is how do I
(02:02):
get my loved one to the pointwhere they're willing to accept
help?
And there's so much that goesinto this question that I wanted
to actually make an episode ofthe podcast that would address
this question.
I don't want to belabor it, butI also want to spend some time
(02:22):
really getting into how to dothis, because as an
interventionist, this is exactlywhat I do and I don't think
that every family needs to havesomebody like me come into their
living room and do anintervention.
Sometimes that's necessary.
Sometimes you've got an erosionof confidence on both sides,
(02:43):
where the family hasconsistently tried to set
boundaries, only to have thoseboundaries get ignored or not
get enforced and the addictedindividual actually begins to
lose confidence and lose trustin the family if they can even
hold those boundaries.
And so in a case like that, alot of times I am recommending
that a family does engagesomebody on a professional
(03:06):
capacity to come in and do anactual intervention.
Most of the time in my coachingsessions with families I'm able
to really give themopportunities and new language
and new structure, newboundaries to help them do this
on their own.
But let's start at the beginning.
You know a family has justidentified that they've got a
(03:27):
loved one that this is not goingto get better on its own.
I think for a long timefamilies really operate in that
space of.
You know, let's just see ifthis can't self-correct, let's
see if we can't get our lovedone to really turn this around
on their own and for most peoplethat's overly optimistic.
(03:53):
When you've crossed that lineinto addiction, as much as we
don't want to live that life,it's very, very difficult for us
to course correct on our own,for the simple reason that, for
as much as we don't want it, wealso don't want to relinquish
(04:16):
control, and we will fight orcontrol, sometimes at our peril.
You know, I, speaking personally, was at a point where I was
homeless, I was penniless, I wasunemployable, and yet I still
held on to this belief that Iwas somehow going to pull myself
(04:37):
out of it, that I was going tofind the formula that would
allow me to be successful.
And of course, it wasdelusional thinking, but I
believed my own story.
At that point, I really didbelieve that I could do this on
my own.
(04:57):
Now, for families, when you seesomebody struggling and I want
to say this as delicately as Ican, but I also want to be
straightforward and honest aboutit as well At some point the
family really has to just kindof break their own denial and
say, okay, this is not working.
What we're doing right now isnot working, and you really have
to be willing to ask yourselfis what I'm doing, providing the
(05:21):
results that I'm hoping to get,and if the answer is no, that's
okay.
This problem doesn't come withan instruction manual, and in
every family there's a certainlevel of dysfunction that's in
operation, and I mean everyfamily.
There's no such thing as aperfect family out there.
(05:42):
As much as we want to projectthat on social media and as much
as we want to make our friendsbelieve that, hey, everything in
our house is okay, it's not.
I can't tell you how many timesI've been traveling around the
country over the last 20 yearsand I can be sitting next to
somebody on a plane and we'llget into a conversation where
they'll ask me what I do.
I'll mention that I'm aninterventionist.
(06:04):
The next thing, you know, I'm inthe middle of a story with them
about somebody that they know,somebody that they love, that
struggled, or that is an activestruggle, with addiction.
This is a problem that affectsevery single family almost
without fail.
I have yet I mean, I can'trecall many people that I've
(06:25):
talked to over the years thathaven't been touched by this
problem in some way, shape orform.
So I think we have to reallysmash the idea that this isn't
happening in our house.
This is happening, and ifyou're listening to this podcast
, there's a really good chancethat this is happening in your
home, and that's okay.
It doesn't mean that you failed.
(06:46):
It doesn't mean that you're abad parent or a bad spouse.
It just means that somebody inyour family is struggling with a
problem that's too big for themto conquer on their own and
likely it's too big for you toconquer as you try to help them.
And so I think that's the firstthing you have to kind of
reconcile is that I don't knowhow to handle this.
What I'm doing is not working,because if they knew how to fix
(07:09):
the problem, they would havedone it already.
If I knew how to fix theproblem, I would have done it
already.
With what is it that I'm reallyfighting against here?
And you know this gets back to?
Is addiction a disease?
(07:29):
Is addiction a choice?
I think it's universallyaccepted At least I hope it's
universally accepted now thataddiction is not a choice, it is
a disease.
Nobody wakes up and decides hey,I think I'm going to burn my
life to the ground today.
I think that it would be areally good idea for me to
destroy relationships, lose myjob, you know, really really
just wreck my life and hurt alot of people in the process.
(07:50):
Nobody sets out to do that, wejust, you know, the analogy that
I'll use a lot of times withfamilies is that, you know,
imagine back to the days whereyou know for those of us that
are old enough to remember thisthat you had chickenpox and the
incredible compulsion that youhad to scratch that itch.
(08:14):
No matter how much your momtold you, stop scratching,
you're going to get infected.
That itch, no matter how muchyour mom told you stop
scratching, you're going to getinfected.
You're going to get scars.
You're going to regret it.
It didn't matter.
All I could think about wasscratching that itch.
I didn't care about theconsequences, I didn't care if I
got scars, I didn't care if Igot infections.
I knew that wasn't going tohappen that moment, and that
(08:35):
itch was so powerful that all Icould think about was scratching
it.
That's kind of like what it'slike to have an addiction.
The itch is so powerful and itcomes from a number of different
sources.
It can come from untreatedmental health issues.
It can come from unresolvedchildhood trauma or abuse or
neglect or abandonment, or griefor loss.
(08:58):
There's so many differentreasons why the pain exists,
that we're trying toself-medicate.
But as soon as I was old enoughto have experienced alcohol for
the first time and took thatfirst drink and realized like,
oh, I mean, I don't have to feelthis, I don't have to feel the
(09:18):
anxiety and the fear and theloneliness and the depression
and the guilt and the anger andthe shame All of that just went
away when I consumed enough ofthis magic potion.
The only thing I can thinkabout is I got to do this again
tomorrow.
That was me scratching that itchand of course that escalated
(09:39):
from there and it graduated toother substances along the way
and other behaviors along theway.
And that's what we're really upagainst is the person is trying
to solve an internal,paralyzing, excruciating problem
with an external solution andgoing to a treatment facility,
(10:03):
getting into a 12-step program.
Finding a way to treat thatitch is more important than the
itch itself.
And I think a lot of times wefocus on the behavior.
Hey, if you'll just stopdrinking, if you'll just stop
using those drugs or gambling orwhatever the behavior is, if
(10:25):
you'll just stop, life will getbetter.
And I think that as youendeavor to get yourself
educated, there will be thisdiscovery that that's really not
the case.
When you take drugs and alcoholaway from somebody like me,
somebody like your loved one,who's struggling, life is not
going to get better right away.
It's going to get much, muchworse, because now I have to
(10:48):
feel everything that I've beentrying to not feel.
Now there's another side to thiscoin, and that is that the
family is engaged in anincredible amount of enabling.
Most of the time it's kind oflike the relationship between
oxygen and fire.
(11:08):
A fire can't survive for verylong without oxygen.
It goes out very quickly whenyou remove the oxygen.
And addiction can't survive forany length of time without
enabling.
Not that the removal of theenabling itself is the end-all,
be-all for addiction.
That's kind of the flaw in thatmetaphor.
But I hope that it helps toreally kind of explain, like
(11:30):
when you take away the enabling,it allows the problem to be
arrested long enough for anothersolution to come along and get
implemented, or at least thefire's not going to get bigger.
And so the reason that we asfamily members will enable is
the very reason that those thatare in active addiction are in
(11:53):
active addiction, and that isthat I don't want to feel what
I'm going to feel if I don'tengage in those behaviors.
I don't want to feel what I'mgoing to feel if I don't engage
in those behaviors.
I don't want to feel like I'm abad dad.
I don't want to feel like I'm abad brother or husband or
partner.
So I will convince myself thatI'm doing this out of love, and
I think that for the most part,that's probably true.
(12:14):
We're doing this because welove this person.
We don't actually want to hurtthem.
But the bigger reason is is Idon't want to feel the guilt
that I'm going to feel if Idon't do this.
And when we get honest withourselves about that, we can
(12:35):
really start to take a look atokay, why am I really doing this
?
I know I shouldn't be.
I know I should stop doing this, but I can't.
How many times do you thinkyour loved one has said that to
themselves?
I don't want to do this anymore, but I can't stop.
It's the exact same thing thatyou're wrestling with as
somebody who's enabling theaddict as they're wrestling with
(12:55):
.
I know I shouldn't do this, butI can't keep from doing it.
I can't keep from making surethey have money in their gas
tank, or making sure they've gotfood, or giving them money,
because they're asking for moneyfor food, but then they go and
use it for drugs, and I knowthat's what they're going to do.
I'm just hoping that they'regoing to use it for what they're
telling me they're going to useit for.
(13:16):
And we get stuck in that cycleof well, maybe this time it'll
work.
And it's the same thing we tellourselves as active addicts and
active alcoholics, that maybethis time it'll be different and
without some new tools in ourtoolbox, it's rarely going to be
the case, and so I think,getting back to the point that I
(13:39):
was making, is that we've gotto really get educated about
what it is we're reallystruggling with on both sides of
this.
What is it that the personwho's in active addiction is
really struggling with, and whatis it that the family's really
struggling?
Because this disease operateson two different planes.
It operates on the addictionside, with the individual, and
(14:00):
it operates on the codependencyside, with the family, and until
we really look at it as asystemic problem and really
start to implement a systemicsolution, it's very unlikely
that this problem is going toself-correct.
Now.
From there, it's about changingthe conversation.
Now that we have someunderstanding about, okay, I
(14:25):
better understand what it is I'mdealing with.
What is it that I have tochange in my conversation?
And you know, the thing thatcomes up consistently on these
weekly family calls isboundaries.
How do I know when I need tocreate boundaries with my loved
one, how do I enforce thoseboundaries?
How do I communicate thoseboundaries without creating
(14:46):
conflict?
And and here's where that getstricky.
I think that a lot of times westart to play this game of
mental chess with addiction andwe really just need to be
playing checkers.
We really need to dumb it downand simplify it.
When we can, we have thecapacity to really
overcomplicate this.
(15:06):
We start to think, well, if Isay this, then they're going to
do this, so I have to do this,and then this is going to happen
, and so I'm going to need to dothis to stop that, and and we
just get and we try to get somany moves ahead that it just
gets really cumbersome andcomplicated and the next thing,
you know, it's like well, gosh,I don't even know where to start
.
(15:27):
The first thing you have to askyourself and, as I'm working
with families, as we're planningan intervention.
There's two questions that Iask every family to ask
themselves.
The first is am I enabling theaddiction in any way?
Am I enabling it financially?
Am I enabling it emotionally?
Am I enabling it just bystaying silent?
And the emotional enablingisn't that it really looks more
(15:52):
like I'm going to try to makethis person feel better in the
moment than actually tell themthe truth about what's really
going on.
When I would have a girlfriendbreak my heart or I would have
somebody do something to mewhere I felt like I was the one
being the victim, a lot of timespeople in my life would just
(16:13):
tell me hey, it's going to beokay.
You know what?
She probably wasn't the rightone for you.
This probably wasn't the rightthing for you to be doing.
Instead of saying, hey, maybeyou're the problem, maybe
there's some different choicesyou could be making and some
different things that you can doto get some help that could
avoid this problem in the future, instead of telling me what I
needed to hear, people weretelling me what would make me
(16:36):
feel better in the moment.
I think a lot of times we fallinto that trap where we just
want somebody to have a littlebit of hope that, hey, this is,
this is going to be okay and andnot that we need to beat people
over the head and say you'rethe problem.
But at the same time we wewithhold the truth, sometimes
thinking that they'll figure itout.
(16:57):
Sometimes our enabling comes inthe form of silence, where it's
just I don't want to talk aboutthe elephant in the room, I
don't want the conflict, I don'twant the eruption that's going
to happen if I bring this upagain, so I'm just going to
ignore it and we'll live tofight another day.
And you do that once or twice.
That's probably not enabling,but you put enough of those days
(17:18):
and weeks together where theelephant doesn't get talked
about and that definitelybecomes enabling behavior.
And so those are really theprimary ways where I see loved
ones enabling the addiction.
The other question that I wantfamilies to ask themselves is is
the addiction harming me in anyway?
Is it harming me financially?
Is it harming me emotionally?
(17:38):
Is it harming me physically?
And it harming me emotionallyIs it harming me physically?
I don't necessarily meanphysical abuse, although
sometimes that happens.
I'm really talking about thestress, the anxiety, the neglect
that we have for ourselves andour well-being, the lack of
sleep and self-care that we giveto ourselves, because so much
(17:59):
of our bandwidth is spentfocused on this other person
that we just abandon ourselvesin the process and the health
problems begin.
The relationship problems beginwith other relationships that
are important and otherimportant priorities get
neglected.
And so if the answer to eitherof those questions is yes, then
(18:22):
and the next question can't bewell, what do they have to
change?
Because we can't control them.
The next question has to be whatdo I have to change in my
behavior so that either I'm nolonger enabling them which
really means so that I'm nolonger causing them harm, and so
that I'm not allowing this toharm me in the ways that it has
(18:43):
up until now as well, harm me inthe ways that it has up until
as well?
And so, as we really get honestabout that, that's where we
really start to get clear onwhat are my boundaries needing
to be right?
Have I enabled this financially?
Do I need to stop giving themmoney?
Do I need to not allow them tolive in my home anymore because
I'm just providing a place forthem to continue living in their
(19:03):
addiction?
Do I need to stop providingthem a vehicle so they can no
longer go out and participate intheir addiction?
Do I need to stop providingthem a vehicle so they can no
longer go out and participate intheir addiction?
Do I need to stop providingthem with a phone so they can
stop communicating with thepeople that are facilitating
their addiction?
All of these things come intoplay.
Sometimes the boundary needs tobe hey, until you have decided
to get some help, I can't engagein a relationship with you,
(19:26):
because I can't trust thatyou're not going to be honest
with me.
I can't trust that you're notgoing to try to manipulate me.
I can't trust that you're goingto be kind.
My experience is that you canbe abusive verbally and
emotionally, and so I don't wantto put myself in that situation
anymore.
So sometimes the relationshiphas to be put on hold until that
(19:47):
person has decided that they'reready to get some help.
Sometimes it's exactly theopposite.
Sometimes the response is hey,I've stayed quiet about this for
far too long and I'm not goingto be afraid to talk about this
anymore.
So, as we move forward, I hopewe can talk on a regular basis,
but I need you to know thatevery time we talk, it doesn't
(20:08):
have to be the only thing wetalk about, but every time we
talk, I'm going to ask you ifyou are ready to get some help,
and if the answer is no, hey,that's okay.
If you're under the influencewhen we're talking, I'm going to
ask you to call me back whenyou're sober.
If we're together at a function, at a family get together or
whatever, and you're under theinfluence, either I'm going to
(20:30):
leave or, if you're at my place,I'm going to ask you to leave.
I'm not going to be a partnerto your addiction anymore.
And so it's really about beingclear on what do I have to do to
change those boundaries?
And then it's.
The next step is how do Icommunicate that in a way where
(20:53):
they know that I love them?
But there's no room formisinterpretation, there's no
room for loopholes andmanipulation and those kinds of
things again, and what I wouldsuggest is that you remove the
language from your vocabulary ofI can't do this anymore,
because history shows that withenough pressure applied, you can
(21:17):
and you will.
For most of us, yes means yesand no just means we need to try
a little bit harder to get youto say yes, and so the
conversation has to really, andthe language that you hear
yourself speak has to change tothe point where now it's I will
no longer do this.
I won't give you money anymore,I won't allow you to live in my
(21:40):
home anymore, because I'm notgoing to provide a place for
your addiction to thrive.
I'm not going to provide aplace for your addiction to
thrive.
I'm not going to provide avehicle for you anymore.
Instead of saying I can't letyou live here anymore, I can't
give you money anymore, there'sjust a different message that
gets sent both to the individualand to you, sending this
message to yourself when you usethat language of I will no
(22:02):
longer be a party to this.
I love you and I hope thatyou'll make the decision to get
some help.
We get told that, hey, how canyou do this to me?
(22:31):
I remember when my family gaveme the opportunity to get some
help and I was livid because theoption was either I can go and
get some help or I was going tohave to leave their home.
And here I'm thinking you know,you're my parents and it's your
job to take care of me, andyou're going to be really awful
(22:53):
parents if you send me out to gofend for myself and I tried to
gaslight them into thinking thatthey were the problem and that
they were creating a biggerproblem.
They were putting me at risk bynot taking care of me.
Luckily, they didn't fall forit, but I think that a lot of
families that I've interactedwith both you know, as an
interventionist in privatepractice and on these weekly
(23:15):
family calls so many familiesexperienced that guilt trip of
how could you do this to me?
And it becomes really importantthat you're clear on hey, I'm
giving you an option.
You're just saying no, there'sfood, there's wonderful food at
this treatment center.
You don't need to be hungry.
They will provide you withthree square meals a day and
(23:39):
probably some snacks in between.
Not going to have to sleep onthe sidewalk.
There's a wonderful,comfortable bed in this
treatment program where you'regoing to be able to sleep and
they're probably even going towash your sheets for you.
You don't even have to cleanthe sheets.
You're going to have some ofthese things taken care of, but
you're choosing not to.
(23:59):
And so now you're asking me tostep in and provide something
for you, because you want to dothis on your terms, and I see
this so often that we want adifferent life, but we want to
do it on our terms, we want todo it in our way, and so many
times that puts the family at adisadvantage, because we expect
(24:23):
the family to get on board withour plan instead of finding a
way to become willing to do thisa different way than we've done
up until that point.
And so, as a family member, asa group, you really have to come
together and get united on.
Here's where we're going to gowith this, and if there's a lack
(24:44):
of unity in the group, getunited before you ever sit down
with your loved one.
That's going to be critical,because if I know there's a weak
link in the chain, I'm goingafter that person first.
I'm going to try to manipulatethem before I ever agree to make
some changes, because I want tosee if those boundaries
(25:04):
actually are real.
To make some changes, because Iwant to see if those boundaries
actually are real.
And it's really, reallyimportant that families stay
united in this, because myexperience as an interventionist
is about 85 to 90% of the time,the people that I intervene on
will go to treatment on the daythat we do the intervention,
(25:24):
because we've come up with amessage that really helps them
understand that the rules havechanged.
We're no longer going to letyour addiction dictate the rules
and hold this family hostage.
Sometimes, when they do say no,it's because they don't believe
that the boundaries are real.
This jerk, matt Brown, has comein here and he's told everybody
(25:46):
to say what they're saying.
He's brainwashed them intosaying things that they've never
said before, and so as soon asI can get him out of the living
room, I'll go back to doing whatI do, and they'll go back to
doing what they do, and thestatus quo gets restored.
And so sometimes there has tobe some learning.
That happens that, oh, this hasreally changed.
(26:07):
They really meant what theysaid, and they've got some
support from from a professionaland they've got some support
from each other to make surethat this, these wagons, stay
circled and and I'm not going tobe able to to divide and
conquer anymore than I'm used toI'm not going to be able to get
them fighting with each otherand and, and then be able to
manipulate to get my way.
(26:28):
So that's going to be animportant piece, and I know that
I'm kind of throwing a lot outhere and I'm hoping that I'm not
going too fast, but this isjust something that has come up
so often, so recently that Ijust felt like it was time to do
something more robust aboutthis and I thought this would be
a good topic for the podcast.
(26:51):
And so, as you're communicatingthese, don't worry about their
reaction.
Let them react.
However they're going to react,just know that you've got to
plant your feet where you standand not be moved, and do it with
love.
And when they have that strongreaction, you can just say hey,
(27:11):
I understand why you're angry, Ijust need you to understand my,
my, my answer is not going tochange.
This is where the line is, andand you're welcome to make a
different choice.
But as far as I'm concerned,right now, this is this is what
I'm willing to support, this iswhat I'm not willing to support,
and you need to make yourchoices accordingly.
I love you and I hope thatyou'll choose to get help, but
(27:34):
if you don't, I'm going to loveyou enough to let you experience
what you're choosing toexperience and then step back
and let them have thatexperience, because sometimes
life has to teach us what we'renot willing to learn any other
way.
And it's scary and I'm not goingto sit here and tell you that
it's not.
It is.
It's really, really scarybecause we're dealing with a
(27:55):
problem that ultimately is goingto be fatal.
It lands people in prison, itlands people in the hospital, it
lands people in the cemeteryand I don't say that flippantly.
Those are real consequences,but most of the time people will
choose a different path beforeit gets to that, most of the
(28:16):
time, and so if you'll set backand let them have that
experience, it may mean thatthey get arrested and there's no
preventing that.
There's.
You trying to prevent them fromgoing to jail, you trying to
prevent them from being hungryis only going to buffer them
from some of the things thatneed to happen, sometimes just
(28:38):
the natural consequences oftheir choices.
But those things aren't ascatastrophic as what waits for
them if the addiction continues.
You know arrest records can getcleaned up.
You know relationships can getmended.
I really want to try to give yousome hope that if you will
(29:03):
allow yourself to step back andin the meantime, as you're
stepping back, do everything youcan to continue to strengthen
yourself and your recovery.
Come to the Monday and Thursdaynight meetings that we have.
Get involved with some of thefamilies and with some of the
other interventionists that areon the Intervention On Call
platform.
Let us be the ones to kind ofwalk you through this and
(29:25):
continue to support you on this.
That's what we're here for andto really surround yourself with
people who are going to buoyyou up and and help you
understand that you're not alone.
There are so many families goingthrough this same problem and
if you can get connected withthem whether it's in Al-Anon,
(29:45):
whether it's in adult childrenof alcoholics and dysfunctional
families or CODA or, like I said, the weekly family meetings
that we do you'll find thatyou're not alone and, as
somebody in recovery, to be ableto go to a meeting and know
that I'm not the only crazyperson in there that's thinking
the things that I'm thinking ona regular basis is a big deal.
(30:08):
I feel like I'm in a placewhere I'm understood and
sometimes we really need thatand I really want to encourage
you, as family members, to allowyourself the opportunity to get
that.
I hope this has been helpful.
If there's more that you need,I want to encourage you to reach
out.
You can email me at matt atpartyrecordscom.
(30:28):
You can find me atfreedominterventionscom.
You can find me atinterventiononcallcom.
You are welcome to reach out andconnect with me.
I'm more than happy to help.
This is what I doprofessionally.
I'd love to connect with you onone of our family calls.
Those are completely free, Ihope.
Like I said, I hope that thishas helped and I hope that it's
(30:50):
given you some focus and somedirection and some hope on how
maybe you can do this a littlebit differently.
I will be putting out moreepisodes on a more consistent
basis going forward.
Thank you for tuning in andsticking with me through the end
of this one.
I wish you well and I hope yourloved one will get sober and
stay sober, thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(31:33):
don't enable addiction ever.
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