June 2, 2025 • 36 mins
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What happens when love becomes a shield that prevents necessary growth? In this powerful episode, Matt Brown examines the complex psychology behind enabling behaviors and offers practical strategies for breaking free from destructive patterns that keep both families and their addicted loved ones stuck.
Drawing from over two decades of experience as an interventionist, Matt compassionately challenges the notion that addiction is simply about poor choices. He reframes addiction as a survival mechanism—sometimes the only thing keeping someone emotionally afloat despite devastating long-term consequences. This perspective shift opens the door to understanding why both the addicted person and their family members remain locked in patterns that perpetuate suffering.
The heart of this episode revolves around two transformative questions families must confront: "Have I enabled the addiction?" and "Have I been harmed by it?" These seemingly simple inquiries demand brutal honesty and lead to the most difficult realization—that we cannot control others, only ourselves. Matt walks listeners through the emotional parallels between addiction and codependency, revealing how both stem from avoiding uncomfortable feelings.
Perhaps most valuable are the practical insights on boundary-setting that actually works. Matt explains why boundaries must have integrity, why consequences matter, and how starting with smaller, manageable boundaries builds credibility over time. His approach empowers families to reclaim their lives while still supporting recovery in more effective ways.
For anyone caught in the exhausting cycle of enabling a loved one's addiction, this episode provides both the compassion and clear direction needed to begin making meaningful changes. Matt also announces a new weekly West Coast family support call starting June 15th at 8pm Pacific, complementing the existing Monday/Thursday calls—all completely free and designed to help families navigate these challenging waters.
Join us Every Sunday at 8:00 PM PST and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday Night at 8:00 PM EST/5:00PST for a FREE family support group. Register at the following link to get the zoom information sent to you: Family Support Meeting
About our sponsor(s):
Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist. While a professional intervention can be a powerful experience for change, not every family needs a professionally led intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professional intervention, we can help. Hour sessions are $150.
Therapy is a very important way to take care of your mental health. This can happen from the comfort of your own home or office. If you need therapy and want to get a discount on your first month of services please try Better Help.
If you want to know more about the host's private practice please visit:
Matt Brown: Freedom Interventions
Follow the host on TikTok
Matt: @mattbrowninterventionist
If you have a question that we can answer on the show, please email us at matt@partywreckers.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
seasoned addictioninterventionist, Matt Brown.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism.
(00:22):
Perhaps they are reluctant toget the help that they need.
We are here to educate andentertain you while removing the
fear from the conversation.
Stick with us and we will getyou through it.
Welcome the original partywrecker, Matt Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Hey, thank you guys.
Thanks for coming back foranother episode.
My name is Matt Brown.
I'm your host.
I'm an interventionist.
I've been working with familieswho have loved ones who
struggle with addiction for alittle over 20 years now, in
different capacities, but as aninterventionist, pretty
consistently.
I've worked in treatmentcenters along the way as well.
(01:12):
But I really love thatfront-end crisis work.
I really enjoy working withfamilies who have that loved one
who just hasn't been able tofind the willingness to get help
, and really working with thosefamilies to find new language,
new strategies and how to createopportunities for those
(01:34):
conversations to look a littlebit different.
Before I get started in today'stopic, I do want to let
everybody know that, in additionto the normal Monday and
Thursday family calls at 8 pmEastern, 5 pm Pacific, starting
on June 15th, which is just acouple of weeks from now, every
(01:57):
Sunday night at 8 pm Pacific,I'm going to be hosting a family
in crisis support call on Zoomthrough Intervention on Call
every Sunday night.
So if you're a West Coaster andhave found it difficult to get
on those 5 pm calls becauseyou're on your way home from
work or there's just a lot goingon with your families because
(02:17):
it's still early in the evening.
We are going to start a WestCoast meeting at 8 pm on Sundays
every week.
To start a West Coast meetingat 8 pm on Sundays every week.
Another interventionist hisname is Pej, out of Southern
California.
He's going to be joining me.
He's another one of theproviders on the service on
intervention on call andtogether we're going to be
hosting that West Coast meeting.
So if you are out here in theWest and it's easier for you to
(02:40):
attend on a Sunday night at 8,by all means I hope we'll see
you there.
And, as always, everybody'swelcome to the other nights of
the week, of course, as wellMondays and Thursdays.
Hopefully we will get it to thepoint where we have a family
meeting every night of the weekso that people can come and have
that place to just to feel likethey're not so alone.
(03:02):
It's completely free.
As interventionists, we want toprovide that.
In particular, I think it helpsto take away some of the fear
of the word intervention.
Oh my gosh, this is such ascary thing and intervention
sounds like a really scaryexperience and we want to take a
lot of that fear away from theexperience for families and, I
(03:22):
think, just settling in with usfor an hour and getting some
feedback, asking questions andmaking it a little bit more
interactive, or just listeningin you can keep your camera off
and listen in if that's what youwant, but hopefully it'll just
make the process a little bitless intimidating for you.
(03:54):
One of the questions that getsconsistently brought up One of
the questions that getsconsistently brought up and I
know that I've talked about thisin different ways and it comes
up from time to time here, aweekly basis but in my private
practice, seems to be thebiggest barrier for families and
(04:14):
the hardest thing for them towrap their heads around, and so
I want to really dive deep intothat today, and so bear with me.
For some of you, this may beold hat, For some of you, this
may be review, and if you're newto this, then this may be
exactly what you need to heartoday.
(04:35):
In any case, I hope thateverybody gets something out of
this, and so let's go ahead andlaunch into it.
Before we get into enabling andboundaries, I think the first
thing we really have to do isreally understand what it is
that we're enabling, and reallyunderstand what addiction is and
(04:55):
what it's not.
Let's dispel the rumor rightaway.
Addiction is not a choice.
I think a lot of times familieslook at their addicted loved
ones and they say why can't theyjust make better choices?
Why can't they just stop?
That was in my family growingup.
That was one of the things thatwas baffling to my family is
(05:17):
why does he continue to do thesethings?
Why does he continue to get inhis own way?
And none of us want to live thelife of addiction.
But when you live in this placeof emotional distress where you
don't have any kind of internalmechanism to manage the ups and
(05:38):
the downs of emotional andmental life, and then you
discover, hey, I can drinksomething or I can smoke
something or I can snortsomething or eat something that
will take those feelings awayand make it that much more
manageable, consequences bedamned, I don't care about the
consequences, I just want tofeel better right now.
(06:01):
And at 18 years old, when I tookmy first drink and discovered
that alcohol made a lot of thosefeelings go away and it made
them go away for as long as Idrank I didn't have to feel
those things again until Isobered up.
And so my brain very early onin this process, learned that I
don't need therapy, I don't needmeetings, I don't need any of
that.
I I just need to drink.
(06:23):
And then gradually it becameother substances and other
behaviors as well.
So addiction, first andforemost, is not a choice, it is
a disease and it has nothing todo with the drugs or the
alcohol, and that may be alittle bit of a confusing
statement for some of you.
(06:44):
Most of the time people look atgoing to treatment or getting
sober as simply the eliminationof compulsive behavior.
I'm going to stop using drugs,I'm going to stop drinking.
That is not enough, that'ssimply abstinence, and for most
of us who are truly addicted,that's not going to make things
(07:06):
better, it's going to makethings worse when you simply
eliminate the one thing that hasallowed me to feel those really
shameful, hurtful, painfulfeelings.
And so in my mind that was somedegree of level.
(07:30):
And for my family, of course,it certainly wasn't.
For the people that were aroundme it certainly wasn't, but
that was the one thing that mademy life survivable made my life
survivable.
I know I've shared this on herebefore, but there was one night
in my twenties where, literally,drugs saved my life.
(07:51):
I was in the process ofcontemplating ending my life and
had a tool at my side with Imean, I'll just say it I had a
loaded shotgun sitting next tome on the bed and I was going to
end my life that night and Ihad some drugs in my pocket and
I thought, well, I'm going touse the rest of these drugs and
(08:13):
then I'm going to go ahead andfollow through with this.
Well, once I got high, I didn'tfeel that desperation anymore,
my life was not so completelyoverwhelming and that desperate
feeling of there's no way out ofthis it was gone.
And so I'm alive today becauseI got high that night.
(08:33):
And that sounds reallycounterintuitive when I tell
people that drugs saved my life,but I think for a lot of us
that's the case, and I want youto look at addiction more as a
survival mechanism than as amechanism of self-harm.
It is the one thing that mightbe keeping your loved one here
(08:54):
on this earth.
Now, does that mean it's goingto keep them here on the earth?
Absolutely not, becauseeventually we end up in one of
three places we end up in jail,we end up in a mental
institution or we end up in acemetery.
That is the end result foranyone who stays in active
addiction over a long enoughtimeline.
(09:14):
It's inevitable.
There's no such thing as a drugaddict that dies of natural
causes, and so I don't want tominimize the impact that, over a
long enough timeline, thataddiction will have.
But on a short timeline, on aday-to-day timeline, that's the
(09:34):
only thing that was keeping mealive helpful life support, but
from an emotional standpoint,that's what was keeping me alive
.
It was keeping me fromconstantly feeling that
desperation, that shame, thatguilt, that overwhelming sense
(09:56):
of impending doom.
And, yes, life finally got badenough that I decided I was
going to get some help.
And so, as families, I don'twant you to look at boy, this
person's really making badchoices and I wish they'd stop.
Nobody wakes up to the life ofactive addiction and celebrates.
Nobody says, yeah, this isexactly what I wanted to be when
(10:16):
I was a kid.
So don't look at addiction assimply consistent or compulsive
use of drugs and alcohol.
I want you to look at it as away to avoid the feelings that
otherwise would be there if wedidn't use, and I'll talk about
(10:36):
how that shows up in familieshere in just a little bit when
we talk about codependency andwe talk about enabling, because
codependency and addiction arealmost identical.
It's just the acting out, howit gets acted out, that's
different, but the feelingsunderneath it are exactly the
same.
So that's you know again,without spending too much time
(10:57):
dissecting addiction and if yougo back and listen to previous
episodes, I'm sure you'll learna lot more about that but that's
just kind of, at a very highlevel, what I want you to really
hear about what addiction isand what it's not.
Now, when we get into theenabling phases, as addicted
individuals, we lose touch withour ability to live life on the
(11:22):
terms that life requires of us,and so we start getting other
people to carry the water for us, so to speak.
We get other people to step inand provide financial help,
emotional support.
Enabling can take a variety ofdifferent forms.
Some of it is very visible.
(11:43):
Sometimes I'm met with familieswhere there's a person living
in their home who's activelyusing, disregarding the rules,
and the family continues toprovide shelter, transportation,
communication, finances, andthe list goes on.
And so sometimes it's veryvisible and very tangible
(12:05):
support in terms of financialenabling or providing the
comforts of life or even thenecessities of life to the
person who's struggling.
Sometimes, the enabling takesthe form of the form of
(12:28):
emotional enabling, where wefind it difficult to really talk
plainly about what's reallygoing on.
Instead, we want to try toencourage, we want to try to be
supportive hey, everything'sgoing to be okay.
Don't worry, this isn't goingto be the way that things always
are.
It'll get better.
It'll get better.
And instead of getting honestwith somebody and saying, hey, I
really think you might benefitfrom getting some professional
help, I don't think that we havein this house what it is you
(12:51):
really need, and as much as Ilove you and as much as I want
to be able to provide some helpfor you, right now, we just
don't have that here.
We don't have the capacity togive you what you need right now
.
We just don't have that here.
We don't have the capacity togive you what you need right now
.
Instead, we opt for a mucheasier conversation which feels
good hey, I love you and thingsare going to get better.
(13:11):
We're going to get through this, don't you worry.
You'll get another job.
You'll find another person tobe in a relationship with.
She probably wasn't the rightperson for you to begin with.
Whatever the story is, we findourselves emotionally enabling
somebody instead of having amuch more significant and deeper
conversation with someone thatmight actually get them moving
in a different direction,because we get afraid, and
(13:34):
that's the other thing.
That happens is because of thehistory that a lot of us have in
terms of, hey, when my familywants to talk to me about my
addiction, I'm going to makethat conversation really
uncomfortable for them.
If they want to talk about howyou know, the condition that I
was in when I came home lastnight, or the things that I did
I wrecked another car or I, youknow, took money out of their
(13:55):
purse again, or you knowwhatever it was if they want to
talk about those behaviors orthose details, I'm going to I'm
going to make that conversationreally painful.
I'm going to talk to them abouthow it's their fault.
I'm going to talk to them about, of course, if you had a family
like I do, you'd drink too.
You'd use drugs too.
If you had parents, like I do,of course you'd act out in
similar ways.
(14:16):
Life here is miserable and westart to gaslight everybody into
thinking that you're the onewho's at fault here, you're the
one who's responsible for why mylife looks the way that it does
.
And we convince families, inparticular moms and dads, that
somehow if you had donesomething different, life would
(14:37):
look differently for me.
If you had done somethingdifferent, life would look
differently for me.
And as parents, I get it Likewe want to take responsibility
so that our kids don't have tomake these big changes.
Hey, if I can make changes inmy life, that will better the
(14:59):
lives of my kids.
Of course I want to be able todo that, but we get to this
point, especially in earlyadulthood, where we have to
assume that mantle ofresponsibility.
Our self-esteem depends on it.
Our future successes depend onit, on us being able to step
into that arena of personalresponsibility.
And when we can do that, we getto attract all of the
self-esteem and all of thebenefits that come with that.
(15:21):
Get to attract all of theself-esteem and all of the
benefits that come with that,even if we fail, even if we
square up to it and we're notsuccessful, it's okay.
We have the experience that weget to learn from and the
self-esteem comes regardless ofwhether or not we're successful.
We tried, we made the effortand there's opportunities for
self-esteem even in that that Ithink sometimes we get robbed of
(15:44):
by well-intending familymembers, and so those are really
the primary ways that peoplewill enable Financially,
emotionally, and then just bystaying silent, because I don't
want the headache, I don't wantthe contention or the conflict
that's going to come if I bringthis up today.
(16:05):
So just for today I'm going tostay silent, and then today
bleeds into tomorrow, andtomorrow bleeds into the next
day, and before long we've gotweeks of silence.
And that's really where theenabling becomes more apparent,
because now it's been going onfor so long that it's like well,
I guess this is just the waylife is, and we silently resign
(16:26):
ourselves to a life that we knowwe don't want to live both the
addicted individual and thefamily.
And so the question thenbecomes okay, so how do I create
boundaries?
How do I start changing this?
Because I feel like I'm so deepunderwater here that this
problem has been going on for solong.
(16:47):
How do I even start?
And that is the million-dollarquestion for most families,
because by the time they getinto a conversation on the phone
with somebody like me, wherethey're talking to a
professional interventionist, ormaybe they're talking to their
therapist or a doctor orsomebody that you know.
(17:07):
Clergyman, where they'veconfided, like this, is just
bigger than what we can handlenow, and it's gotten so out of
control that we just have noidea where to start.
There's two questions.
As I'm preparing to do anintervention with families,
there's two questions that I askeveryone to consider.
The first question is have Ienabled the addiction in any way
(17:29):
?
And we've already talked aboutthe ways that we can enable.
The second question is have Ibeen harmed by the addiction in
any ways?
And when I say the addiction,I'm not talking about the
individual.
These individuals that we getto work with are some of the
most intelligent, kind,sensitive, loving people you'll
(17:52):
ever meet.
When they're at their best, andthat's what's worth fighting
for.
They are not the problem theaddiction is.
And so when I say, have Ienabled the addiction, have I
been harmed by the addiction, Idon't want you to put that onto
your loved one, because at theircore they're still that
(18:13):
wonderful, loving person.
That's worth the effort thatyou're about to make as you
embark on this opportunity tocreate a conversation, or maybe
it's to the point where you needto do an intervention and get
them into a treatment program,but they're worth whatever
effort you're about to make.
And so those are the twoquestions that I really want you
(18:34):
to ask yourselves when I sayhave you been harmed by the
addiction I'm talking about?
Have you been harmedfinancially?
Have you been harmedemotionally, whether it's verbal
abuse, emotional abuse, evenphysical abuse sometimes, and
that's the other thing.
Have I been harmed physically?
And sometimes there is physicalabuse, physical violence.
(18:54):
That's not altogether common,but it happens Most of the time.
The physical manifestations comewhen I neglect myself.
I'm not able to sleep the waythat I need to, I'm not able to
take care of myself the way thatI need to, because all of my
mental and emotional bandwidthare spent worrying about this
other person and how to helpkeep all the plates spinning in
(19:18):
their life, and I become asecondary issue.
And you know, in the short runthat's not always a bad thing.
That's what we do for our kidsas parents, that's what we do
for our spouses as loved ones,and so I'm talking about over
the long term.
You know, as this progresses,we find ourselves neglecting
ourselves and not taking care ofourselves.
(19:39):
We find ourselves neglectingother important relationships or
even finding conflict in otherrelationships where we're at
disagreements on how to handlethings, and so unity becomes an
issue.
It's really important to reallysee this with honest eyes, and
these are not easy questions tohave to ask yourself.
(20:00):
Have I enabled this?
Have I been harmed by this?
And if the answer to either orboth of those questions is yes,
the next question can't be well,what does my loved one have to
do so that I'm not enabling thisanymore, so that I'm not harmed
by this anymore?
We have no control over them.
No-transcript work so muchharder on solving this problem
(20:46):
than the individual will, and sothe question then becomes what
do I have to change so that I'mno longer enabling this, so that
I'm no longer being harmed bythis?
And that can be a pretty bigpill to swallow, and so we don't
want to eat the whole elephantin one bite During an
(21:08):
intervention.
When we're sitting down and thefamily has the support of a
group of people and aprofessional in the room, we'll
come at that a little bitdifferently than what I would
recommend for somebody having aone-on-one conversation about
these kinds of things and reallykind of setting up individual
boundaries before it gets to thepoint where an intervention is
needed.
(21:29):
But this is where addiction andcodependency really begin to
appear.
The same Because, as familieslook at implementing boundaries,
they're met with the sameemotional difficulties that were
met with an active addiction.
(21:49):
I used drugs and alcohol toavoid feeling what I was going
to feel.
If I didn't use drugs andalcohol, I didn't want to feel
the shame and the guilt and thesadness and the fear and the
loneliness and the insecuritiesand all of those feelings that
came when I didn't havesomething in my system.
Families and loved ones willenable, for the very same
(22:13):
reasons.
Now we will dress it up andmake it look like well, I'm
doing this because I love thatperson.
I'm doing this because I don'twant to see them suffer.
I don't want to see them gohungry.
I don't want to see them gohungry.
I don't want to see them becold.
I don't want to see them out onthe streets with no place to be
.
That I get.
But if we dig a little bitdeeper, uh, what we will
(22:35):
discover is that we're doing itbecause we don't want to feel
what we're going to feel if wedon't do it.
Well, I don't want to feel likeI'm a bad dad.
I don't want to feel like I'm abad mother.
I don't want to feel like I'm abad spouse.
I don't want to feel the guiltthat's going to come if I know
that my kid is out on the streetbecause I won't let them use
while they're here at home or Iwon't get them a hotel room
(22:56):
where I know that they're justgoing to throw a party and use
with everybody else.
They can fit in that room.
We don't want to feel whatwe're going to feel if we don't
engage in those behaviors, andthat's why addiction and
codependency are so.
They're really just differentsides of the same coin and as
(23:18):
actively addicted individuals,we will find people who are
codependent to enable us andeven though that person's not
using or drinking in an addictedor alcoholic way, the emotional
distress that goes on under thesurface is identical to what's
going on with the addictedindividual.
(23:40):
And so, if you're listening tothis and you're having one of
those aha moments, I really wantyou to know like, okay, you've
just had like your first stepexperience.
I've admitted that I waspowerless and my life was
unmanageable, like that.
That is step one.
When you're looking at thisfrom a 12-step perspective Now,
what do I do?
Now, you have to reallyunderstand.
(24:01):
Okay, regardless of how I feel,what is the healthiest thing I
can do.
And you know, my really goodfriend and interventionist, sam
Davis, has a really poignant wayof putting this and I'll put it
to you guys the same way but Iwant to give him credit for this
idea and the way he frames this.
(24:23):
If your loved one were allowedto hit bottom and I mean bottom,
like lose everything they wereliterally homeless, penniless,
jobless, without a relationship,without anyone around to
support them.
Are they capable enough, arethey lovable enough?
(24:45):
Are they intelligent enough tobe able to rebuild their lives?
And when we ask this questionof families, most of the time
the response is well, of coursethey are.
Yes, they're capable, they'resmart, they're lovable, they're
good with people.
They are very capable ofrebuilding their lives from
(25:07):
nothing.
The question then becomes whyare we preventing that from
happening?
Because the moment that I hitbottom was the moment that I
started to rise above it, that Istarted to actually find the
humility that I needed to reachout and ask for help and begin
(25:27):
that rebuilding process.
Now I get it.
For some people, the bottom isirreversible.
It's catastrophic.
For some people, it's death Forsome people.
It's prison.
For some people it's somethingelse.
There's an inherent risk inthis.
It's not just hey, they'regoing to hit bottom and they're
going to bounce back.
That's not the case foreverybody, but by and large,
(25:50):
that's not the end result formost.
The vast majority of people donot die from addiction.
They'll hit that bottom,they'll get sober and then they
begin to recover.
In the studies we always hearabout the people that don't make
it.
In 2023, I think it was 2022 or2023, there was a study done
(26:16):
that said 49 million people inthis country were in active
addiction in 20, I think it was2022.
13 million got help.
Now those numbers seem prettyabysmal.
Those numbers seem prettydepressing.
But here's the other way that Iwant you to look at it.
(26:38):
There are millions of people inrecovery in this country.
There are millions of people.
We can't even count how manypeople because AA and NA and all
these other anonymousorganizations are just that
they're anonymous.
We don't track how many peopleare in those organizations.
And then you look at the peoplethat do get well, whether they
(27:01):
get well by going to church, orthey get well by going to
treatment or they get wellthrough other means.
They have that experience thatallows them to get sober and
stay sober and grow.
That's the end result for mostpeople, and so I want you to
really look at this with someoptimism and some hope, if you
will step back and allow yourloved one to hit that bottom or,
(27:25):
at the very least, let themhave the experience they're
choosing to have withoutinterfering.
Let them experience the naturalconsequences.
You don't have to makeartificial consequences.
We're good at making our ownconsequences, believe me.
So if you all, if all you do isjust get out of the way and say
, hey, I'm not going to give youmoney anymore, I know, I know
(27:45):
how you're spending the moneythat I've been giving you and I
don't feel good about that.
So, going forward, I don't wantyou to ask me for money.
Going forward, I'm not going toallow you to use drugs in my
home, and so I want you to findsomeplace else to live.
I'm not going to providetransportation for you to go and
acquire drugs or sell drugs, ifthat's the thing that they're
into.
I may not feel good aboutproviding a cell phone for you
(28:08):
anymore, because I know thatthat's a way that you're
facilitating not justcommunicating to be able to
acquire drugs, but with reallyunhealthy relationships.
And so, going forward, if youneed a cell phone, you're going
to need to get that for yourself.
There are a number of ways thatwe can look at eliminating some
of the enabling the cell phoneis usually the scariest thing
for families, because how arethey going to call me when
(28:29):
they're ready to get help?
I get that, but, trust me, if Ican get drugs without any money
, I can find a way to contact myfamily without a phone.
Trust me, what I will say isallowing someone to be fully
responsible for their life willbring this to an end much faster
(28:50):
than if you continue to put apillow under them every time
they fall, because unless I getto experience what that fall
feels like and the bruises andthe blood that come from, that
gets to be more than I want toexperience again.
That's when I get willing tochange, that's when I get
willing to do somethingdifferent.
And it wasn't until my familygot out of the way and said hey,
(29:14):
you can either go to treatmenttoday or here's the alternative
you do have to leave, we aren'tgoing to support you.
And I chose option B.
I didn't think I neededtreatment and it took me a
little while to come around tothe idea that I needed to be
sober.
But unless they had done that,I don't know that I'd be here
(29:38):
talking to you today, and Ican't tell you how many times
I've thanked my family, my momin particular and my dad but my
mom in particular because she Ithink it was harder on her than
it was anybody else in my familyand the strength that it takes
for a mom and a dad to reallytell their son hey, we love you
(30:01):
and we want to provide some helpfor you today, but we're also
going to allow that space foryou to make a different choice
and for you to go and experiencethat as well.
That's love.
They were done trying tocontrol me.
They were done trying tocontrol my addiction.
They were willing to let go andthey were willing to let me
have an experience that I wasbent on having.
But I just was so entitled andso arrogant that I thought that
(30:24):
they were always going to bethere to clean up the mess, and
once the mess got too big for meto clean up on my own, I
changed.
So, as families, as you reallytalk about, what kind of
boundaries do we need toimplement?
It's different for every family.
I can't say, okay, this is thefirst boundary that needs to be
(30:45):
implemented, this is the second,this is the third.
Everybody has to really take alook and say, okay, this is
where we start, and it doesn'thave to be these massive
boundaries.
It doesn't mean, hey, we'regoing to ask them to go and live
somewhere else.
It can be very simple things of.
(31:05):
I don't let people talk to melike that.
This needs to change and it canstart very simply with the way
you communicate with one another.
Simply with the way youcommunicate with one another.
But once they realize that whenyou start putting boundaries in
place, you hold them and thoseboundaries have integrity when
(31:26):
the time comes that a biggerboundary does need to be
implemented.
They've got some history withyou now of being able to set
boundaries and hold boundaries.
And they know if mom and dadsay I've got to, I've got to
leave the house because I'm notwilling to get sober and go to
treatment, or whatever the caseis, they know, okay, in in
recent weeks or months, myfamily has been able to put
(31:48):
boundaries in place and holdthem.
They mean what they say andthey say what they mean All of a
sudden.
That means a lot more than ifyou come right out of the gates
with a boundary, that in theirmind it's like yeah sure, mom
and dad, you know.
If it's a spouse, yeah sure,honey, I'm sure you're going to
be able to do that.
And then you know, I may toethe line for a couple of days
(32:09):
and get back in your good gracesand I know that once the dust
settles I'll go back to runningthe show.
I'll go back to running theshow If the history shows me, as
somebody in active addiction,that my family is changing, and
even to be able to say hey, I'mgoing to Elanon, I'm going to
Naranon, I'm going to a weeklyfamily meeting with four or five
(32:31):
, six different interventionistswhere they're coaching us on
how to restructure some thingsin our home so that this doesn't
have the kind of control overus that it does.
If you come to those familymeetings, we don't want you to
keep it a secret from your lovedones.
We want them to know thatyou're getting help.
We want them to know thatyou're engaging in something
different.
Now they're going to getuncomfortable about that.
They're going to try topersuade you that you don't need
(32:53):
that, or all these guys want isyour money.
All they want you to do is hirethem for an intervention.
That's why we make it free.
We don't want people to feellike this is about you need to
open up your wallets.
We want families to heal fromthis.
If you need us to have anintervention, okay, then we can
talk about that.
If you need us to do somecoaching with you, we can talk
(33:14):
about that too.
But the sessions that we doseveral times a week, we do them
for free because we don't wantthere to be strings attached.
We want you to come, get whatyou need and be able to start
implementing that in your homes.
Now, that's really what I wantedto dig into today.
I wanted to really talk aboutwhy people enable and how we, as
(33:40):
enablers, begin to implementsome boundaries.
And it all starts with thosetwo questions, and we have to be
honest with ourselves about theanswers to those questions.
And then we have to take a lookand say, okay, realistically,
what do I have to change hereand what can I change here?
And whatever you decide needsto change, it has to have
integrity.
You can't set a boundary andthen walk it back.
(34:02):
It won't work.
So start with boundaries thatare realistic.
Hold those boundaries.
Have consequences when thoseboundaries get violated, and it
doesn't mean that theconsequences have to be hey, I'm
asking you to leave our home.
It can simply be.
(34:23):
I don't have conversationswhere people speak to me like
this when you're ready to have adifferent kind of conversation
with me, let's pick this upwhere we left off, but for now
we're going to be done, orhowever whatever that
consequence needs to be.
But a boundary without aconsequence isn't a boundary.
It's a request, and sometimesthat's appropriate.
But when you're implementingboundaries, there needs to be
(34:47):
some structure to it.
There needs to be a change thatyou're willing to implement.
It's not about, hey, you needto do this, or else A boundary
says I'm not willing to engagein behaviors that are unhealthy
for me anymore or that areharmful for me anymore, and so
until this behavior changes, I'mgoing to make a different
choice, and so I hope thishelped.
(35:09):
I hope again, I don't want todrag on too long about this.
I like to keep episodes toabout a half an hour so that
they don't get too wordy and toooverwhelming.
But I hope this helped.
If you have questions.
I know I say this every episode.
Sometimes people will reach outwith questions.
I wish more of you did, and soif you have questions about
(35:30):
enabling, if you have questionsabout boundaries, send me an
email.
Shoot me an email at mad atparty recordscom.
I would love to hear from you.
Let me know what I can do tohelp.
If you have ideas for futureepisodes, if you have questions
that you'd like for me toaddress in a future episode, by
all means shoot that to me aswell.
I hope I get to see you on oneof the upcoming family groups
(35:51):
that we do Now.
Again, we're adding the Sundaynight, starting June 15th, and
then, as always, we'll be doingthe Monday and Thursday nights.
But please, please, come andjoin us on that.
Again, it's completely free, nostrings attached, and until
then, I hope your loved one willget sober and stay sober.
Thanks, guys.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(36:36):
don't enable addiction ever.
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by
seasoned addictioninterventionist, Matt Brown.
This is a podcast for familiesor individuals with loved ones
who are struggling withaddiction or alcoholism.
(00:22):
Perhaps they are reluctant toget the help that they need.
We are here to educate andentertain you while removing the
fear from the conversation.
Stick with us and we will getyou through it.
Welcome the original partywrecker, Matt Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Hey, thank you guys.
Thanks for coming back foranother episode.
My name is Matt Brown.
I'm your host.
I'm an interventionist.
I've been working with familieswho have loved ones who
struggle with addiction for alittle over 20 years now, in
different capacities, but as aninterventionist, pretty
consistently.
I've worked in treatmentcenters along the way as well.
(01:12):
But I really love thatfront-end crisis work.
I really enjoy working withfamilies who have that loved one
who just hasn't been able tofind the willingness to get help
, and really working with thosefamilies to find new language,
new strategies and how to createopportunities for those
(01:34):
conversations to look a littlebit different.
Before I get started in today'stopic, I do want to let
everybody know that, in additionto the normal Monday and
Thursday family calls at 8 pmEastern, 5 pm Pacific, starting
on June 15th, which is just acouple of weeks from now, every
(01:57):
Sunday night at 8 pm Pacific,I'm going to be hosting a family
in crisis support call on Zoomthrough Intervention on Call
every Sunday night.
So if you're a West Coaster andhave found it difficult to get
on those 5 pm calls becauseyou're on your way home from
work or there's just a lot goingon with your families because
(02:17):
it's still early in the evening.
We are going to start a WestCoast meeting at 8 pm on Sundays
every week.
To start a West Coast meetingat 8 pm on Sundays every week.
Another interventionist hisname is Pej, out of Southern
California.
He's going to be joining me.
He's another one of theproviders on the service on
intervention on call andtogether we're going to be
hosting that West Coast meeting.
So if you are out here in theWest and it's easier for you to
(02:40):
attend on a Sunday night at 8,by all means I hope we'll see
you there.
And, as always, everybody'swelcome to the other nights of
the week, of course, as wellMondays and Thursdays.
Hopefully we will get it to thepoint where we have a family
meeting every night of the weekso that people can come and have
that place to just to feel likethey're not so alone.
(03:02):
It's completely free.
As interventionists, we want toprovide that.
In particular, I think it helpsto take away some of the fear
of the word intervention.
Oh my gosh, this is such ascary thing and intervention
sounds like a really scaryexperience and we want to take a
lot of that fear away from theexperience for families and, I
(03:22):
think, just settling in with usfor an hour and getting some
feedback, asking questions andmaking it a little bit more
interactive, or just listeningin you can keep your camera off
and listen in if that's what youwant, but hopefully it'll just
make the process a little bitless intimidating for you.
(03:54):
One of the questions that getsconsistently brought up One of
the questions that getsconsistently brought up and I
know that I've talked about thisin different ways and it comes
up from time to time here, aweekly basis but in my private
practice, seems to be thebiggest barrier for families and
(04:14):
the hardest thing for them towrap their heads around, and so
I want to really dive deep intothat today, and so bear with me.
For some of you, this may beold hat, For some of you, this
may be review, and if you're newto this, then this may be
exactly what you need to heartoday.
(04:35):
In any case, I hope thateverybody gets something out of
this, and so let's go ahead andlaunch into it.
Before we get into enabling andboundaries, I think the first
thing we really have to do isreally understand what it is
that we're enabling, and reallyunderstand what addiction is and
(04:55):
what it's not.
Let's dispel the rumor rightaway.
Addiction is not a choice.
I think a lot of times familieslook at their addicted loved
ones and they say why can't theyjust make better choices?
Why can't they just stop?
That was in my family growingup.
That was one of the things thatwas baffling to my family is
(05:17):
why does he continue to do thesethings?
Why does he continue to get inhis own way?
And none of us want to live thelife of addiction.
But when you live in this placeof emotional distress where you
don't have any kind of internalmechanism to manage the ups and
(05:38):
the downs of emotional andmental life, and then you
discover, hey, I can drinksomething or I can smoke
something or I can snortsomething or eat something that
will take those feelings awayand make it that much more
manageable, consequences bedamned, I don't care about the
consequences, I just want tofeel better right now.
(06:01):
And at 18 years old, when I tookmy first drink and discovered
that alcohol made a lot of thosefeelings go away and it made
them go away for as long as Idrank I didn't have to feel
those things again until Isobered up.
And so my brain very early onin this process, learned that I
don't need therapy, I don't needmeetings, I don't need any of
that.
I I just need to drink.
(06:23):
And then gradually it becameother substances and other
behaviors as well.
So addiction, first andforemost, is not a choice, it is
a disease and it has nothing todo with the drugs or the
alcohol, and that may be alittle bit of a confusing
statement for some of you.
(06:44):
Most of the time people look atgoing to treatment or getting
sober as simply the eliminationof compulsive behavior.
I'm going to stop using drugs,I'm going to stop drinking.
That is not enough, that'ssimply abstinence, and for most
of us who are truly addicted,that's not going to make things
(07:06):
better, it's going to makethings worse when you simply
eliminate the one thing that hasallowed me to feel those really
shameful, hurtful, painfulfeelings.
And so in my mind that was somedegree of level.
(07:30):
And for my family, of course,it certainly wasn't.
For the people that were aroundme it certainly wasn't, but
that was the one thing that mademy life survivable made my life
survivable.
I know I've shared this on herebefore, but there was one night
in my twenties where, literally,drugs saved my life.
(07:51):
I was in the process ofcontemplating ending my life and
had a tool at my side with Imean, I'll just say it I had a
loaded shotgun sitting next tome on the bed and I was going to
end my life that night and Ihad some drugs in my pocket and
I thought, well, I'm going touse the rest of these drugs and
(08:13):
then I'm going to go ahead andfollow through with this.
Well, once I got high, I didn'tfeel that desperation anymore,
my life was not so completelyoverwhelming and that desperate
feeling of there's no way out ofthis it was gone.
And so I'm alive today becauseI got high that night.
(08:33):
And that sounds reallycounterintuitive when I tell
people that drugs saved my life,but I think for a lot of us
that's the case, and I want youto look at addiction more as a
survival mechanism than as amechanism of self-harm.
It is the one thing that mightbe keeping your loved one here
(08:54):
on this earth.
Now, does that mean it's goingto keep them here on the earth?
Absolutely not, becauseeventually we end up in one of
three places we end up in jail,we end up in a mental
institution or we end up in acemetery.
That is the end result foranyone who stays in active
addiction over a long enoughtimeline.
(09:14):
It's inevitable.
There's no such thing as a drugaddict that dies of natural
causes, and so I don't want tominimize the impact that, over a
long enough timeline, thataddiction will have.
But on a short timeline, on aday-to-day timeline, that's the
(09:34):
only thing that was keeping mealive helpful life support, but
from an emotional standpoint,that's what was keeping me alive
.
It was keeping me fromconstantly feeling that
desperation, that shame, thatguilt, that overwhelming sense
(09:56):
of impending doom.
And, yes, life finally got badenough that I decided I was
going to get some help.
And so, as families, I don'twant you to look at boy, this
person's really making badchoices and I wish they'd stop.
Nobody wakes up to the life ofactive addiction and celebrates.
Nobody says, yeah, this isexactly what I wanted to be when
(10:16):
I was a kid.
So don't look at addiction assimply consistent or compulsive
use of drugs and alcohol.
I want you to look at it as away to avoid the feelings that
otherwise would be there if wedidn't use, and I'll talk about
(10:36):
how that shows up in familieshere in just a little bit when
we talk about codependency andwe talk about enabling, because
codependency and addiction arealmost identical.
It's just the acting out, howit gets acted out, that's
different, but the feelingsunderneath it are exactly the
same.
So that's you know again,without spending too much time
(10:57):
dissecting addiction and if yougo back and listen to previous
episodes, I'm sure you'll learna lot more about that but that's
just kind of, at a very highlevel, what I want you to really
hear about what addiction isand what it's not.
Now, when we get into theenabling phases, as addicted
individuals, we lose touch withour ability to live life on the
(11:22):
terms that life requires of us,and so we start getting other
people to carry the water for us, so to speak.
We get other people to step inand provide financial help,
emotional support.
Enabling can take a variety ofdifferent forms.
Some of it is very visible.
(11:43):
Sometimes I'm met with familieswhere there's a person living
in their home who's activelyusing, disregarding the rules,
and the family continues toprovide shelter, transportation,
communication, finances, andthe list goes on.
And so sometimes it's veryvisible and very tangible
(12:05):
support in terms of financialenabling or providing the
comforts of life or even thenecessities of life to the
person who's struggling.
Sometimes, the enabling takesthe form of the form of
(12:28):
emotional enabling, where wefind it difficult to really talk
plainly about what's reallygoing on.
Instead, we want to try toencourage, we want to try to be
supportive hey, everything'sgoing to be okay.
Don't worry, this isn't goingto be the way that things always
are.
It'll get better.
It'll get better.
And instead of getting honestwith somebody and saying, hey, I
really think you might benefitfrom getting some professional
help, I don't think that we havein this house what it is you
(12:51):
really need, and as much as Ilove you and as much as I want
to be able to provide some helpfor you, right now, we just
don't have that here.
We don't have the capacity togive you what you need right now
.
We just don't have that here.
We don't have the capacity togive you what you need right now
.
Instead, we opt for a mucheasier conversation which feels
good hey, I love you and thingsare going to get better.
(13:11):
We're going to get through this, don't you worry.
You'll get another job.
You'll find another person tobe in a relationship with.
She probably wasn't the rightperson for you to begin with.
Whatever the story is, we findourselves emotionally enabling
somebody instead of having amuch more significant and deeper
conversation with someone thatmight actually get them moving
in a different direction,because we get afraid, and
(13:34):
that's the other thing.
That happens is because of thehistory that a lot of us have in
terms of, hey, when my familywants to talk to me about my
addiction, I'm going to makethat conversation really
uncomfortable for them.
If they want to talk about howyou know, the condition that I
was in when I came home lastnight, or the things that I did
I wrecked another car or I, youknow, took money out of their
(13:55):
purse again, or you knowwhatever it was if they want to
talk about those behaviors orthose details, I'm going to I'm
going to make that conversationreally painful.
I'm going to talk to them abouthow it's their fault.
I'm going to talk to them about, of course, if you had a family
like I do, you'd drink too.
You'd use drugs too.
If you had parents, like I do,of course you'd act out in
similar ways.
(14:16):
Life here is miserable and westart to gaslight everybody into
thinking that you're the onewho's at fault here, you're the
one who's responsible for why mylife looks the way that it does
.
And we convince families, inparticular moms and dads, that
somehow if you had donesomething different, life would
(14:37):
look differently for me.
If you had done somethingdifferent, life would look
differently for me.
And as parents, I get it Likewe want to take responsibility
so that our kids don't have tomake these big changes.
Hey, if I can make changes inmy life, that will better the
(14:59):
lives of my kids.
Of course I want to be able todo that, but we get to this
point, especially in earlyadulthood, where we have to
assume that mantle ofresponsibility.
Our self-esteem depends on it.
Our future successes depend onit, on us being able to step
into that arena of personalresponsibility.
And when we can do that, we getto attract all of the
self-esteem and all of thebenefits that come with that.
(15:21):
Get to attract all of theself-esteem and all of the
benefits that come with that,even if we fail, even if we
square up to it and we're notsuccessful, it's okay.
We have the experience that weget to learn from and the
self-esteem comes regardless ofwhether or not we're successful.
We tried, we made the effortand there's opportunities for
self-esteem even in that that Ithink sometimes we get robbed of
(15:44):
by well-intending familymembers, and so those are really
the primary ways that peoplewill enable Financially,
emotionally, and then just bystaying silent, because I don't
want the headache, I don't wantthe contention or the conflict
that's going to come if I bringthis up today.
(16:05):
So just for today I'm going tostay silent, and then today
bleeds into tomorrow, andtomorrow bleeds into the next
day, and before long we've gotweeks of silence.
And that's really where theenabling becomes more apparent,
because now it's been going onfor so long that it's like well,
I guess this is just the waylife is, and we silently resign
(16:26):
ourselves to a life that we knowwe don't want to live both the
addicted individual and thefamily.
And so the question thenbecomes okay, so how do I create
boundaries?
How do I start changing this?
Because I feel like I'm so deepunderwater here that this
problem has been going on for solong.
(16:47):
How do I even start?
And that is the million-dollarquestion for most families,
because by the time they getinto a conversation on the phone
with somebody like me, wherethey're talking to a
professional interventionist, ormaybe they're talking to their
therapist or a doctor orsomebody that you know.
(17:07):
Clergyman, where they'veconfided, like this, is just
bigger than what we can handlenow, and it's gotten so out of
control that we just have noidea where to start.
There's two questions.
As I'm preparing to do anintervention with families,
there's two questions that I askeveryone to consider.
The first question is have Ienabled the addiction in any way
(17:29):
?
And we've already talked aboutthe ways that we can enable.
The second question is have Ibeen harmed by the addiction in
any ways?
And when I say the addiction,I'm not talking about the
individual.
These individuals that we getto work with are some of the
most intelligent, kind,sensitive, loving people you'll
(17:52):
ever meet.
When they're at their best, andthat's what's worth fighting
for.
They are not the problem theaddiction is.
And so when I say, have Ienabled the addiction, have I
been harmed by the addiction, Idon't want you to put that onto
your loved one, because at theircore they're still that
(18:13):
wonderful, loving person.
That's worth the effort thatyou're about to make as you
embark on this opportunity tocreate a conversation, or maybe
it's to the point where you needto do an intervention and get
them into a treatment program,but they're worth whatever
effort you're about to make.
And so those are the twoquestions that I really want you
(18:34):
to ask yourselves when I sayhave you been harmed by the
addiction I'm talking about?
Have you been harmedfinancially?
Have you been harmedemotionally, whether it's verbal
abuse, emotional abuse, evenphysical abuse sometimes, and
that's the other thing.
Have I been harmed physically?
And sometimes there is physicalabuse, physical violence.
(18:54):
That's not altogether common,but it happens Most of the time.
The physical manifestations comewhen I neglect myself.
I'm not able to sleep the waythat I need to, I'm not able to
take care of myself the way thatI need to, because all of my
mental and emotional bandwidthare spent worrying about this
other person and how to helpkeep all the plates spinning in
(19:18):
their life, and I become asecondary issue.
And you know, in the short runthat's not always a bad thing.
That's what we do for our kidsas parents, that's what we do
for our spouses as loved ones,and so I'm talking about over
the long term.
You know, as this progresses,we find ourselves neglecting
ourselves and not taking care ofourselves.
(19:39):
We find ourselves neglectingother important relationships or
even finding conflict in otherrelationships where we're at
disagreements on how to handlethings, and so unity becomes an
issue.
It's really important to reallysee this with honest eyes, and
these are not easy questions tohave to ask yourself.
(20:00):
Have I enabled this?
Have I been harmed by this?
And if the answer to either orboth of those questions is yes,
the next question can't be well,what does my loved one have to
do so that I'm not enabling thisanymore, so that I'm not harmed
by this anymore?
We have no control over them.
No-transcript work so muchharder on solving this problem
(20:46):
than the individual will, and sothe question then becomes what
do I have to change so that I'mno longer enabling this, so that
I'm no longer being harmed bythis?
And that can be a pretty bigpill to swallow, and so we don't
want to eat the whole elephantin one bite During an
(21:08):
intervention.
When we're sitting down and thefamily has the support of a
group of people and aprofessional in the room, we'll
come at that a little bitdifferently than what I would
recommend for somebody having aone-on-one conversation about
these kinds of things and reallykind of setting up individual
boundaries before it gets to thepoint where an intervention is
needed.
(21:29):
But this is where addiction andcodependency really begin to
appear.
The same Because, as familieslook at implementing boundaries,
they're met with the sameemotional difficulties that were
met with an active addiction.
(21:49):
I used drugs and alcohol toavoid feeling what I was going
to feel.
If I didn't use drugs andalcohol, I didn't want to feel
the shame and the guilt and thesadness and the fear and the
loneliness and the insecuritiesand all of those feelings that
came when I didn't havesomething in my system.
Families and loved ones willenable, for the very same
(22:13):
reasons.
Now we will dress it up andmake it look like well, I'm
doing this because I love thatperson.
I'm doing this because I don'twant to see them suffer.
I don't want to see them gohungry.
I don't want to see them gohungry.
I don't want to see them becold.
I don't want to see them out onthe streets with no place to be
.
That I get.
But if we dig a little bitdeeper, uh, what we will
(22:35):
discover is that we're doing itbecause we don't want to feel
what we're going to feel if wedon't do it.
Well, I don't want to feel likeI'm a bad dad.
I don't want to feel like I'm abad mother.
I don't want to feel like I'm abad spouse.
I don't want to feel the guiltthat's going to come if I know
that my kid is out on the streetbecause I won't let them use
while they're here at home or Iwon't get them a hotel room
(22:56):
where I know that they're justgoing to throw a party and use
with everybody else.
They can fit in that room.
We don't want to feel whatwe're going to feel if we don't
engage in those behaviors, andthat's why addiction and
codependency are so.
They're really just differentsides of the same coin and as
(23:18):
actively addicted individuals,we will find people who are
codependent to enable us andeven though that person's not
using or drinking in an addictedor alcoholic way, the emotional
distress that goes on under thesurface is identical to what's
going on with the addictedindividual.
(23:40):
And so, if you're listening tothis and you're having one of
those aha moments, I really wantyou to know like, okay, you've
just had like your first stepexperience.
I've admitted that I waspowerless and my life was
unmanageable, like that.
That is step one.
When you're looking at thisfrom a 12-step perspective Now,
what do I do?
Now, you have to reallyunderstand.
(24:01):
Okay, regardless of how I feel,what is the healthiest thing I
can do.
And you know, my really goodfriend and interventionist, sam
Davis, has a really poignant wayof putting this and I'll put it
to you guys the same way but Iwant to give him credit for this
idea and the way he frames this.
(24:23):
If your loved one were allowedto hit bottom and I mean bottom,
like lose everything they wereliterally homeless, penniless,
jobless, without a relationship,without anyone around to
support them.
Are they capable enough, arethey lovable enough?
(24:45):
Are they intelligent enough tobe able to rebuild their lives?
And when we ask this questionof families, most of the time
the response is well, of coursethey are.
Yes, they're capable, they'resmart, they're lovable, they're
good with people.
They are very capable ofrebuilding their lives from
(25:07):
nothing.
The question then becomes whyare we preventing that from
happening?
Because the moment that I hitbottom was the moment that I
started to rise above it, that Istarted to actually find the
humility that I needed to reachout and ask for help and begin
(25:27):
that rebuilding process.
Now I get it.
For some people, the bottom isirreversible.
It's catastrophic.
For some people, it's death Forsome people.
It's prison.
For some people it's somethingelse.
There's an inherent risk inthis.
It's not just hey, they'regoing to hit bottom and they're
going to bounce back.
That's not the case foreverybody, but by and large,
(25:50):
that's not the end result formost.
The vast majority of people donot die from addiction.
They'll hit that bottom,they'll get sober and then they
begin to recover.
In the studies we always hearabout the people that don't make
it.
In 2023, I think it was 2022 or2023, there was a study done
(26:16):
that said 49 million people inthis country were in active
addiction in 20, I think it was2022.
13 million got help.
Now those numbers seem prettyabysmal.
Those numbers seem prettydepressing.
But here's the other way that Iwant you to look at it.
(26:38):
There are millions of people inrecovery in this country.
There are millions of people.
We can't even count how manypeople because AA and NA and all
these other anonymousorganizations are just that
they're anonymous.
We don't track how many peopleare in those organizations.
And then you look at the peoplethat do get well, whether they
(27:01):
get well by going to church, orthey get well by going to
treatment or they get wellthrough other means.
They have that experience thatallows them to get sober and
stay sober and grow.
That's the end result for mostpeople, and so I want you to
really look at this with someoptimism and some hope, if you
will step back and allow yourloved one to hit that bottom or,
(27:25):
at the very least, let themhave the experience they're
choosing to have withoutinterfering.
Let them experience the naturalconsequences.
You don't have to makeartificial consequences.
We're good at making our ownconsequences, believe me.
So if you all, if all you do isjust get out of the way and say
, hey, I'm not going to give youmoney anymore, I know, I know
(27:45):
how you're spending the moneythat I've been giving you and I
don't feel good about that.
So, going forward, I don't wantyou to ask me for money.
Going forward, I'm not going toallow you to use drugs in my
home, and so I want you to findsomeplace else to live.
I'm not going to providetransportation for you to go and
acquire drugs or sell drugs, ifthat's the thing that they're
into.
I may not feel good aboutproviding a cell phone for you
(28:08):
anymore, because I know thatthat's a way that you're
facilitating not justcommunicating to be able to
acquire drugs, but with reallyunhealthy relationships.
And so, going forward, if youneed a cell phone, you're going
to need to get that for yourself.
There are a number of ways thatwe can look at eliminating some
of the enabling the cell phoneis usually the scariest thing
for families, because how arethey going to call me when
(28:29):
they're ready to get help?
I get that, but, trust me, if Ican get drugs without any money
, I can find a way to contact myfamily without a phone.
Trust me, what I will say isallowing someone to be fully
responsible for their life willbring this to an end much faster
(28:50):
than if you continue to put apillow under them every time
they fall, because unless I getto experience what that fall
feels like and the bruises andthe blood that come from, that
gets to be more than I want toexperience again.
That's when I get willing tochange, that's when I get
willing to do somethingdifferent.
And it wasn't until my familygot out of the way and said hey,
(29:14):
you can either go to treatmenttoday or here's the alternative
you do have to leave, we aren'tgoing to support you.
And I chose option B.
I didn't think I neededtreatment and it took me a
little while to come around tothe idea that I needed to be
sober.
But unless they had done that,I don't know that I'd be here
(29:38):
talking to you today, and Ican't tell you how many times
I've thanked my family, my momin particular and my dad but my
mom in particular because she Ithink it was harder on her than
it was anybody else in my familyand the strength that it takes
for a mom and a dad to reallytell their son hey, we love you
(30:01):
and we want to provide some helpfor you today, but we're also
going to allow that space foryou to make a different choice
and for you to go and experiencethat as well.
That's love.
They were done trying tocontrol me.
They were done trying tocontrol my addiction.
They were willing to let go andthey were willing to let me
have an experience that I wasbent on having.
But I just was so entitled andso arrogant that I thought that
(30:24):
they were always going to bethere to clean up the mess, and
once the mess got too big for meto clean up on my own, I
changed.
So, as families, as you reallytalk about, what kind of
boundaries do we need toimplement?
It's different for every family.
I can't say, okay, this is thefirst boundary that needs to be
(30:45):
implemented, this is the second,this is the third.
Everybody has to really take alook and say, okay, this is
where we start, and it doesn'thave to be these massive
boundaries.
It doesn't mean, hey, we'regoing to ask them to go and live
somewhere else.
It can be very simple things of.
(31:05):
I don't let people talk to melike that.
This needs to change and it canstart very simply with the way
you communicate with one another.
Simply with the way youcommunicate with one another.
But once they realize that whenyou start putting boundaries in
place, you hold them and thoseboundaries have integrity when
(31:26):
the time comes that a biggerboundary does need to be
implemented.
They've got some history withyou now of being able to set
boundaries and hold boundaries.
And they know if mom and dadsay I've got to, I've got to
leave the house because I'm notwilling to get sober and go to
treatment, or whatever the caseis, they know, okay, in in
recent weeks or months, myfamily has been able to put
(31:48):
boundaries in place and holdthem.
They mean what they say andthey say what they mean All of a
sudden.
That means a lot more than ifyou come right out of the gates
with a boundary, that in theirmind it's like yeah sure, mom
and dad, you know.
If it's a spouse, yeah sure,honey, I'm sure you're going to
be able to do that.
And then you know, I may toethe line for a couple of days
(32:09):
and get back in your good gracesand I know that once the dust
settles I'll go back to runningthe show.
I'll go back to running theshow If the history shows me, as
somebody in active addiction,that my family is changing, and
even to be able to say hey, I'mgoing to Elanon, I'm going to
Naranon, I'm going to a weeklyfamily meeting with four or five
(32:31):
, six different interventionistswhere they're coaching us on
how to restructure some thingsin our home so that this doesn't
have the kind of control overus that it does.
If you come to those familymeetings, we don't want you to
keep it a secret from your lovedones.
We want them to know thatyou're getting help.
We want them to know thatyou're engaging in something
different.
Now they're going to getuncomfortable about that.
They're going to try topersuade you that you don't need
(32:53):
that, or all these guys want isyour money.
All they want you to do is hirethem for an intervention.
That's why we make it free.
We don't want people to feellike this is about you need to
open up your wallets.
We want families to heal fromthis.
If you need us to have anintervention, okay, then we can
talk about that.
If you need us to do somecoaching with you, we can talk
(33:14):
about that too.
But the sessions that we doseveral times a week, we do them
for free because we don't wantthere to be strings attached.
We want you to come, get whatyou need and be able to start
implementing that in your homes.
Now, that's really what I wantedto dig into today.
I wanted to really talk aboutwhy people enable and how we, as
(33:40):
enablers, begin to implementsome boundaries.
And it all starts with thosetwo questions, and we have to be
honest with ourselves about theanswers to those questions.
And then we have to take a lookand say, okay, realistically,
what do I have to change hereand what can I change here?
And whatever you decide needsto change, it has to have
integrity.
You can't set a boundary andthen walk it back.
(34:02):
It won't work.
So start with boundaries thatare realistic.
Hold those boundaries.
Have consequences when thoseboundaries get violated, and it
doesn't mean that theconsequences have to be hey, I'm
asking you to leave our home.
It can simply be.
(34:23):
I don't have conversationswhere people speak to me like
this when you're ready to have adifferent kind of conversation
with me, let's pick this upwhere we left off, but for now
we're going to be done, orhowever whatever that
consequence needs to be.
But a boundary without aconsequence isn't a boundary.
It's a request, and sometimesthat's appropriate.
But when you're implementingboundaries, there needs to be
(34:47):
some structure to it.
There needs to be a change thatyou're willing to implement.
It's not about, hey, you needto do this, or else A boundary
says I'm not willing to engagein behaviors that are unhealthy
for me anymore or that areharmful for me anymore, and so
until this behavior changes, I'mgoing to make a different
choice, and so I hope thishelped.
(35:09):
I hope again, I don't want todrag on too long about this.
I like to keep episodes toabout a half an hour so that
they don't get too wordy and toooverwhelming.
But I hope this helped.
If you have questions.
I know I say this every episode.
Sometimes people will reach outwith questions.
I wish more of you did, and soif you have questions about
(35:30):
enabling, if you have questionsabout boundaries, send me an
email.
Shoot me an email at mad atparty recordscom.
I would love to hear from you.
Let me know what I can do tohelp.
If you have ideas for futureepisodes, if you have questions
that you'd like for me toaddress in a future episode, by
all means shoot that to me aswell.
I hope I get to see you on oneof the upcoming family groups
(35:51):
that we do Now.
Again, we're adding the Sundaynight, starting June 15th, and
then, as always, we'll be doingthe Monday and Thursday nights.
But please, please, come andjoin us on that.
Again, it's completely free, nostrings attached, and until
then, I hope your loved one willget sober and stay sober.
Thanks, guys.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a rating and a
review.
This helps us get the word outto more people, to learn more or
to ask us a question we cananswer in a future episode.
Please visit us atPartyWreckerscom and remember
(36:36):
don't enable addiction ever.
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