April 11, 2025 • 54 mins
Master Shi Heng Yi has become no short of a sensation since I interviewed him back in 2021. This interview has had the highest listens on the podcast to date. If you missed it, it's a cracker! Here's the blurb:
It’s not every day you get to interview a 35th generation Shaolin Master, and certainly not one with 2 University degrees, including an MBA!
Master Shi Heng Yi has been studying Martial Arts since he was 4 years old and has been running the Shaolin Temple in Europe since 2010.
He is a contemporary monk who carries a smartphone and is focused on the sustainable development and spreading of the Shaolin culture and philosophy and today's podcast has plenty of insights and guiding principles for us all, so please share this podcast with anyone who you think may benefit.
You can find out more about Master Shi Heng Yi and Shaolin Philosophy in his Ted-X talk on the 5 hindrances to self-mastery
Here is a link to the Shaolin Temple Europe, where Master Shi Heng Yi resides.
Here is what we discuss and when:
- Start: The Shaolin Monk lineage system
- 3:50 - The process of becoming a Shaolin Monk
- 7:52 - The concepts of Chi and Qigong
- 14:35 - The importance of Qigong in physical development, focus and prowess
- 18:22 - The mental states that hold us back
- 26:02 - Master Shi Heng Yi's advice for achieving self-mastery
- 30:34 - The art of cultivating discipline
- 36:00 - The important combination of combined physical and mental training in Shaolin philosophy
- 42:20 - Philosophising vs doing
- 49:10 - Master Shi Heng Yi's view on happiness
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey, everybody, today we're going to do something different. We're
actually going to run a podcast back and it's an
old podcast, and it actually came to my mind because
I came across a clip on YouTube of Master She
Heng Yee, who I had interviewed oh a couple of
years ago now and he has turned into a sensation.
(00:33):
He has half a million YouTube followers now and around
a million Instagram followers. He is a thirty fifth generation
Shaolin Monk and since twenty ten he's been running the
Shaolin Temple in Europe. And in this podcast, which I
just listened to again the other day, and it's a cracker,
and we just talked about a whole heap of life
(00:54):
lessons from the Shaolin way. I think you'll really enjoy this,
even if you did hear it the first time, and
if you didn't get in petreat Master she Hang Yee.
Welcome to the Mind, Body Brain Project podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hello Paul Nice, and thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
You're most welcome, and it's a real honor to have
a Sharon Monk on the podcast, and not only a
Sharon Monk, but a thirty fifth generation Shaolin Monk. So
can you explain how that lineage system works of generations
of shaolin monks.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So if you look at the way how we are
talking to each other, let's say, or how students relate
to me and how I relate to my students, we
talk in terms of a family system. So stifu or
shiffho means you're the teacher or you're the father, and
(01:52):
we may be not related to my students in terms
of the same blood, sharing the same blood, but it's
about sharing the same heritage and sharing the same art
and culture. And this means every time when a student
who was staying a very very long time with his
shiffu also enters into the lineage and takes over the obligation,
(02:19):
for example, to teach and also have his own students afterwards,
this is the moment where you are actually entering into
this system, so you become the next generation, in the
moment where you have children, where.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
You have students, where you have students exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
So, and yeah, that's actually quite the system how it is.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
M's that's very interesting. So thirty five generations, that's gotta
be more probably five hundred years maybe something like that.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well, actually, the funny part is we are counting at
the moment, it's the thirty fifth generation in my case,
but we are already at the thirty sixth or thirty
seventh generation in some cases. But if you would actually
count back and go back in time, you would realize
that thirty six generations of thirty seven actually is not
(03:18):
even enough to return back to the source, which is
like one thousand, five hundred years ago where the monastery
was founded, okay. And the reason for that is that
the counting of the lineages started much much later, yes,
and it simply was introduced in order to get some
(03:41):
type of structure right into into the system.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Okay, So the first children didn't count, yes, but they
technically exactly yes. Yeah, yeah, Okay, that's great. So tell
me how do you how do you actually become a
shaolin master? And what is your training like, how long
does it take, what does the typical days training look like?
(04:08):
And just talk as to that process a bit. Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So in my case, I grew up in Germany, but
in a very very early age, with the age of four,
my father actually decided for me that I need to
join some just martial arts school.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So that means besides the fact of going to school.
The only thing that I spent my time in was
for very very long time and many years, just the practice.
And I was interested also in seeing all the movies,
and I had different idols m and I don't know
(04:53):
if it was a character trade that time, but I
saw something any type of movements that I like, and
so I spent all my training time and tried to
copy them until I was able to also do the
different types of moves or whatever it was. So the
initial beginning for me was mostly related really to the
(05:16):
physical practice and just copy the movements and become flexible
with the body, become strong with the body. And yes,
this type of training I had for many many years,
and just later on when I started to get a
little bit older, this was the time when I got
(05:38):
introduced also into the philosophy and into all the different
backgrounds that go along or go together with the Shaolin
martial arts. And this actually was the moment where I
met the first Shaolin monks that came from the song
Shan Shaolin Temple in China. Okay, So I started to
(06:00):
practice Shaolin kung fu with another master with an early
age already, but the first contact with the Shaolin monk.
That was when I was around like twelve years fourteen years.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Old, okay, And what martial arts did you do before that?
What was the first martial arts you did?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
It was called Shaolin Green Dragon kung fu, so it
was also a schoolIn style, but not the same direction
like I practiced it today.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
It has the same origins, but it is not the
traditional shaolin training that you have nowadays, and which is
the most famous.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
And so how long did you train under the Shaolin
kung fu under your master? How long did that process
go for?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So with my first teacher, I trained around eighteen years
and after the first eighteen years, in between I met
the Showlin monks, okay, and under their guidance, then I
also spent the other almost twenty years.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yes, oh wow.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
So I always stayed within the field of shaolin mainly,
but in between I had many excursions also watching into
other systems, because I just think it's important to not
be too fixed on one system. So you think that
(07:38):
yours is the best of anything. There is simply no
best system. It is just there are many systems which
have advantages and disadvantages, and I think it's just good
to observe and also.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Learn from others.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But Maine, my main road was always the showling.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Way, showing way. Okay, so they I actually did one
of your online You've got a lot of stuff that's
online that's really quite cool. And I did one of
your your chie gong and movements. I think it was
a twenty minute session. So can you talk a little
bit about chi gong and chi? Initially, so it's a
(08:19):
it's a hard concept for a lot of Westerners to
get their head around, but I know that chi is
very important in Chinese culture and Chinese medicine, and particularly
in Daoist medicine. Can you talk first of all about
what chi is and then what is chigung?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I think slowly it's getting even to me the understanding
why it's always set in the Chinese culture to not
try and define that word chi.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So, but anyway, I think the.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
This is the question you always get asked that says
that's the you shouldn't ask us.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
But I really think the advantage right now also in
our conversation and the possibilities that we have nowadays, is
that you have people that on the one side grow
up with a very very strong influence from Asian culture,
but at the same time also have a good understanding
(09:26):
how in the Western the mentality is yes, And let's
just assume that the chi is necessary for anything in
this world to manifest, to form. Everything that has a
(09:47):
form needs a certain amount of GI. Everything that is
functioning needs chi. Everything that is alive is the expression
of a type of GI. Sometimes we say when you
are very very vital, when your body, your expression, your
(10:08):
life is full of energy, is very vibrant. Then we
also say this person has a lot of cheap, but
also somebody who is like very weak physically weak mentally,
maybe very depressed and locked. Such a person, we say
(10:30):
not necessarily has less cheap, but it seems like it's
not vibrant, it's locked or it is locked. When we
talk about cheap, it expresses at something. It can express
at something very vibrant, something very alive. But at the
(10:51):
same time it can also express itself like not expressible.
It's too weak to express, it's.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Not coming out. Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Other traditions maybe say, yeah, this person has that special aura.
He enters the room and you can feel something about him.
How do we know or that there is something like
this cheek because it is expressing as something. For example,
this chigong practice, the twenty minutes that you were following,
(11:22):
what's the purpose of this This chiegong exercise has different
postures that you're taking in. Yeah, it has different postures
the bardawe gin in that case, this chigong routine has
eight different postures if you take it seriously, each of
(11:44):
these postures has a different way of how it is
expressing its power. The first exercise, for example, is called
lifting or supporting the sky or lifting up the sky.
Just imagine you put your hands up, but you do
(12:04):
not have the intention that you are lifting anything. So
that means your arms are up. But it's different if
your arms are up and you have the feeling or
you are creating inside yourself. Now there is something heavy
above you that you need to support, so your body
(12:25):
serves like a pillar. So when you know that your
body serves like a pillar and above you is something
very very heavy, then the alignment of your skeleton matters.
Yeah right, Yeah, the alignment or the muscles that you
are accessing matters. And if you have a good feeling
(12:50):
for your body. What martial artists normally do. Everybody who
practice martial art for a long time. Something that he
gets is a very good understanding and awareness normally for
their own body. So that means you have a good feeling.
How do I need to align my skeleton, which muscles
(13:12):
do I need to engage in order to not waste energy,
but at the same time to serve as a very
very strong pillar in case the sky would be really
heavy and pushing on top of you. So there is
a difference between just holding up the hands and having
(13:35):
the intention also on the mind to support the sky.
And in this case, in that exercise, I assume that
sky would be heavy. Yeah, so this is why I'm
going into the position align myself structurally and also intentionally
(13:58):
in order to create that one posture which would give
me the most feeling of having the power to support
this sky now. And so this is what the chigong
practice is teaching you, and what you are learning, you
are becoming more sensitive for what is happening within yourself
(14:23):
regardless of what you're doing. So chigong is not about fighting, Yeah,
it's about understanding your biological functions and mechanisms inside of
you while you are practicing anything.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And it's interesting you said that I used to do
tai chi when I was in Scotland, I had a
teacher of tai chi. I used to go to the
classes and it took a while to get the feeling
of the movements. But then when you started to feel
the movements, you could you could feel that they were
(15:02):
both both more and more intentional, more difficult, but also
more energizing as well. And I noticed at the end
of the class and when I started to get that
little bit of feeling that that I felt like I
had used up a lot more energy but also gained
a lot more energy and felt much more refreshed. And
(15:23):
so yes, it's it is really about that connection with
the energy and the energy slow.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Isn't it exactly? But also nowadays the chigung is an
aspect of the physical development. Put it simple. That's why
in the shouting temple there is no really that differentiation
between on the one side to practice chigong and on
the other side to practice come fu. Right, It's just
(15:52):
it's somehow just turned out to be separated like this
in nowadays world. So there are chigon classes and there
are kung fu classes. Yeah, but the thing is you
cannot practice kung fu without having internal energetic aspects. The
(16:13):
difference is only you don't know about them because you
don't pay attention to them. But it doesn't matter if
you are lifting something, if you are punching, if you're pulling,
if you're pushing, there is something energetically also happening inside
of you. The question is only are you able with
your full awareness to know what's going on inside of
(16:36):
their And in the moment you're able to tap deeper
inside and know what's going on, you can control yourself
better and ultimately also increase the effectiveness of whatever exercises
we are doing.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, and that's why when you say shallon masters, they
do what seems to us normal people to be incredible
fates because it is that deep connection with the movement.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yes, It's also the ability to be focused and concentrated.
If you know where your energy is going, you can
just direct it wherever you need it. And just as
simple examples, very famous are the breaking of the sticks
for example, in a way, what matters in the moment
(17:34):
of impact is the point of impact. So there is
just one place or one area where that stick or
that brick is going to get in contact with the body.
And it's important that at this place nothing harmful starts
(17:58):
to penetrate through the body. So you need a shield.
You need a shield exactly at this place, right, So,
and how do you create this shield with the power,
with the focus, and with the concentration that in the
moment of impact, all of your available energies that you
(18:19):
were able to control inside of yourself is directed towards
this point. This is one method for.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Example, Okay, And and that whole idea of being focused
and connected. It's not just in the physical movements within
the martial art and the Charlain traditions. It really spills
over into your life into mental states as well. So
(18:47):
I've heard you talk about the five mental states that
hold us back? And can can you talk a little
bit about that for the listeners? What are these five
mental states that hold us back? And what can we
do to fight them?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I really really like the similarly between the way how
a martial artist is training and the way how a
martial artist, if he's able to integrate his virtues into
the normal life, can benefit from this. What I mean
by that is there is no martial arts skill that
(19:25):
we are able to develop if you would not put
any type of effort into your training. In order to
get some martial arts skills, you need to suffer. You
need to go through some suffering. You need to sweat,
You need to push yourself. You need to know or
explore the limits of your own body and also the
(19:48):
limits of your own mind. Because many times we think
I cannot make any more push ups, but somebody is
going to be there to motivate you, and he's squeezing
out the last five push ups still out from you.
And this is the reason why next week we are
becoming better and are able to deliver more push ups
(20:12):
because we break that limitation we had on ourselves before.
So in order to become better, in order to bring
out more about ourself, there is something about breaking limits
and breaking above things that was holding us back before. Yeah,
(20:37):
and when we switch now from the martial arts into
let's say just our mental states, then it's just the
question what is it that nowadays is able to hold
me back? What is it that is limiting me in
(20:59):
the way? How I sink mm hmm. And this is
what the five mental states or the five hindrances that
I was talking before are about. There are five states
of the mind simplified. There are more, but the five
are very simplistically expressed in this way, which can make
(21:25):
it very hard for you to to see where you're standing.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
M Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
One of the states is, for example, when your complete
day is filled with with sensory desire. So that means
you're always looking for something that is giving you positive,
a positive feeling. You can always chase something with the
eyes because you like the beauty of the eyes. You
(21:54):
always like to eat something great, so you you are
following the taste with the smelling, the hearing with the feeling.
It's the same. So your mind all day long is
chasing over something over a desire, over a desire which
derives from your sensory gates. Yes, in the moment you
(22:17):
are running after these things, we say you're off track.
You're off track because you cannot concentrate anymore on the
essential part. You cannot remain calm. That is the problem, okay,
because you're running after something that gives you positive feeling
all the.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Time, and that feeling is an external feeling. It's an
external input, right, rather than internal.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yes, especially that it is triggered from external stimulis and
I really think if somebody wants to hear more about
those five hindrances, you will surely find them. But what
I really want to now put the emphasis on is
sometimes people misunderstand and think that monks or masters or
(23:05):
people that live inside a monastery don't have a happy life,
are not able to express themselves or are enjoying their lifetime.
I really think it's very, very, very hard to find
any person in this world who is so perfect to
not have any type of influence from those five hindrances.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Okay, so you say they're pretty universal.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
They are pretty universal. Everybody has them to a certain extent.
This all is not about right, and it's not about wrong.
It is just about everything that you do with your
mind in this world has a consequence. If you can
live with a consequence, then do it. If you like
(23:55):
to follow your eyes and your senses, if you like
to live a life full of external sense stimulus, then
do it. It's not a problem. But this way of
living a life has a consequence, and you, because you
live this life, you will need to bear with those consequences.
(24:20):
And we have eight billion people in this world. We
cannot all live the same life based on the same ideology.
The only thing that I'm always trying to encourage people
is to say, you want a result in the martial art,
there is the price you pay for it.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Absolutely, do the work.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Do the work. Yeah, you want to live this type
of life. It also means there's something you will sacrifice
for this. So and this is the way how we
see or I see the world. It's cause and consequence.
So that means what I what my input into life is.
(25:08):
I'm going to get a result from this. I wake
up with the with the mind based on ill will,
on bad thoughts all day long. I'm going to get
results from this. I wake up every day and my
mind is lazy. I don't want to move. My mind
doesn't want to move. I don't want to think about
(25:29):
something complicated. Also, you're going to get the consequence from this.
And this is what those five mental states are about.
They are just telling you be careful that there are
states of the mind. When you have them for a
too long time, they going to bring consequences that when
(25:54):
you think about these consequences, you will maybe understand for yourself. Okay,
on the long term, I don't want to live with
these consequences.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Okay, so it's about reaping what you saw. Yes, So,
charl and monks and look, martial artists in general are
very much on a path of self mastery. So so
what would be your advice to people who want to
get into that self mastery because we know from from
(26:26):
lots of different research actually that that people who pursue
self mastery and tend to to have a life of
more contentment. I'm not going to say happiness, because happiness
is this thing that you know, the Stoic philosophers, the
ancient Growths, Greeks and Roman philosophers said that that happiness
(26:47):
is full of gold, that the person who chases happiness
is a fool. I think more more contentment, satisfaction. What
the ancient Greeks called you de ammonia. I'm sure there's
a there's a similar word in Chinese. But what would
you think are some of the important steps on a
path to self mastering?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
A great part of this is in your hands. So already,
when you have the feeling that your emotional states, or
your quality of life, or your contentment or satisfaction about
life at the moment is too much outsourced or is
too much related to anything which is not in your hands.
(27:32):
That's the first step to just start and realize, to
return back and do not outsource this satisfaction, this happiness,
this contentment. Don't make the way how you feel too
much dependent on how these external stimulus are. And why
(27:58):
is that Because there is there are situations, and there
are persons, and there there are possibilities where you can
do something about changing them or changing the situation, but
very often and more likely you cannot, because how the
(28:24):
world is going right now, it's not just about you.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Hmm. Absolutely, you were not the.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Source why the world is the way how it is.
It's eight billion people have influence in how this world is. Yeah,
the natural constellation of the stars is the reason why
the world is the way how it is right now.
So it doesn't make sense to outsource this inner state
(28:53):
of satisfaction to something that anyway, on the large scale,
you cannot control. The first step is realize what is
in your hands and what is definitely not in your hands.
So that's step number one. Then step number two is
(29:18):
that very helpful inside and why I think for some
dedicated martial art practitioners it's more easy to get this point.
Is the part about the discipline. I mean, if we
talk about discipline, a monastery pretty much is an example
(29:42):
for this discipline. But you have to say that in
the very beginnings we talked about external discipline because inside
the monastery, when you're young, you don't want to wake
up at the hours you should wake up. It is,
you don't want to make all the time so much
(30:04):
training that you're supposed to do the training. So that
means there's always somebody who is taking care of that discipline,
that you keep the discipline, and that sometimes can also
mean it's the stick that keeps the discipline. Yes, so
this is what we call it's external discipline. But no
(30:26):
matter what, if you are inside of such an external
discipline for a long time, two years, three years, it
will slowly start that you do it by yourself.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
That's interesting, right, That is that they development because a
lot of people and they talk about how this person
is so disciplined, that that person is so disciplined. I
would love to be as disciplined, but they're not realizing
that that person was probably exposed to discipline. I mean,
I'm Mexic ex military, and there was a lot of
(31:02):
external discipline that went on. But there's a lot of
people who are military individuals or martial artists who learn
that discipline, as you said, being exposed to it and
being externally regulated. After a while, you develop your own
internal discipline. And that's I think something that a lot
(31:25):
of people don't realize is that discipline is something that
doesn't often come natural and that has to be learned
over a period of time. It has to be expressed
over a period of time in order to strengthen, and
we actually know there are certain regions of the brain
that if you are every time you're being disciplined, you're
(31:47):
actually strengthening those regions. So and hence to your point
of the monastery, it's external for a couple of years,
and then it becomes internalized. It's something that we can
all learn. I think it's something that a lot of
people don't talk about when they talk about behavior change.
They talk about all of these life hacks, but you
(32:08):
don't hear discipline mentioned a lot. And I think it's
pretty critical, right because you're exposed to the same temptations
as many of us, but it's the discipline that can
often be the discerning factor between which way your life
goes isn't it.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yes, exactly, And I mean there is a reason why
there is this saying you need to practice anything for
at least one hundred days.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Okay, So that's is that the shaolin thinking in terms
of having this is.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
One saying, right idea. It is just you need to
repeat something very very often. You need to program yourself.
Our body is running on the software and this software
is filled with some information and in order that this
software really starts to change, you need repetition.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
The repetition makes the system change, and say, makes you
reconnect whatever is able to reconnect. And this is exactly
how you said it before. That that's the reason why
we need repetition. And you sometimes need to be exposed
to some conditions in order that you develop the right mechanism.
(33:28):
And now together with that second step of cultivating your discipline.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
I love that expression, cultivating your discipline. It's a beautiful
expression actually, because that that's what it is. Really. It
sums it up, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yes, there are also people who have talent. Talent means
that your understanding of the subject in the beginning is
much quicker. You are able to apply what you what
you know much quicker. But ultimately, even if you are talented,
(34:01):
I don't think the talent shows it's only about talent,
but also the willingness on the other side to put
the work into it, to find this right combination. And
so that means there's something internal about this about this person,
something that he already carries inside of him. But now
(34:23):
you also need the external way. How is he expressing
this in this world. So the internal gift and the
external expression, those two together, this is what makes that
person stand out in the crowd nowadays and becomes something
and express something very very specialtely, this is the same
(34:47):
like chigong and kung fu. Something internal something external. You
need both and also right now, yes you need discipline,
but now you also need to express this discipline. So
you are using your will power, You are using the
(35:07):
steadiness and ability to focus in order to now also
take the same challenges as other people in this world
are taking. It's just that you face the challenge, but
you have discipline. That's why you don't give up even
(35:30):
if you fail in that challenge. This is the only difference. Yeah,
but we also it doesn't mean that in the monastery
or any martial artists or whatsoever, does not face challenges
just because he has discipline. No, he has many ups
and downs, he has many failures. But because of this discipline,
(35:54):
all these failures is not the end.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
I think it's an old Chinese saying, is that fall
down seven times, get up? Yet? Yes?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
So?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
And in the and in the shawling way that there
is a very strong connection between physical fitness and spiritual development.
Can you just talk about those links for a little bit.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
So the root of shoolin arts, I would say, is
derived from the insight into how the things are. Meaning
the martial arts is only one way how you were
able to put all the theory, all that knowledge, that
wisdom which comes from so called charm Buddhism or zen
(36:46):
Buddhism into ways of daily practice. It's really about this.
To control the body is good. Controlling the body is
already a good sign that there is something that you
have under control. But if you would be able to
control your mind as much as you are able to
(37:07):
control the body, then we are regarding this in our
tradition as the ultimate and the highest ability of yourself,
the highest skill in order to create and have influence
in your life quality. Because it's the mind. It is
(37:27):
your thoughts that can bring you from one second from
paradise into hell. Or for me personally, I have to speak.
This is what I'm looking for, the power of the mind.
This is what I think is sustainable when you are
(37:47):
still young. And maybe I can consider myself still young
with thirty eight. But one day the power of the
body is gonna vanish. That cannot change. It is just
gonna happen. But I don't think the power of the
mind can cease so easily. This is maybe personal belief,
but this is my interpretation and my ambition. Why I
(38:11):
we got this way of life, to combine spirituality on
the one side, the hard external martial art training on
the other side. Why I think it's very, very beneficial.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
In terms of the mind and thinking about the mind
and controlling the mind being key. You're not alone. And
Marcus Aurelius was a Roman emperor and Stoic philosopher. You
may have heard of him, but he said that we
have power over our mind, not outside events. Realize this
(38:47):
and you will find strength. Right. And Epictetus is another
Stoic philosopher, and he said, and you can make my
leg lam and you will imprison my leg, but you
will never be able to imprison my mind. And so
there's I think the Stoics are very aligned with that,
that that Challlin tradition around that it's really the key
(39:11):
is that part over the mind. It's just in Shallin.
And my understanding from this conversation is that that the
physical training and the martial arts is a way to
condition yourself to have power over your mind. Is is
that correct? It's like a kind of a gateway. Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I think if you would point it down at one
center skill mm hmm, then it's exacut it is. It's
all about increasing your awareness of your own mind also
the ability to adjust your own mind. And therefore we
(39:51):
need to use different methods because maybe when we talk
about it, or I talk about it, for me it
is normal that I say, I can see the thoughts
that are arising. But I don't think it's something normal.
(40:13):
I think sometimes it's just like I have the sort
and that's it. There's nothing I can do about it.
But it's not like this. And why we have so
called sitting practices meditative practices, because if you are sitting
physically for half an hour or one hour or even
(40:35):
for five minutes, you really try as good as you can.
Sit down and don't move. Don't move the body, not
even the eyebrow, nothing, just don't move. So what you
want is the body becomes still. When the body becomes
(40:58):
still and you are not itching somewhere or scratching somewhere,
then it means the more you practice, the more you
will realize if your mind actually is still or not.
Because all the time, right now, if right now in
our rooms the wind would be blowing, we can feel
the wind on the skin because we are distracted by
(41:21):
our sense sensation. So if we're able to for a
moment shut down the senses, then all your awareness, all
your consciousness, is able to be put upon your mind,
and then you can see if your mind is still
or not. Then it's really like entering into another world.
(41:43):
And the more you practice is the more then you
will really realize. I think my mind was still all
the time, but there is so much turbulence. And this
is the way why there is this sitting practice for
what this is one of the reasons, this is the
(42:04):
benefit why it's worse to sometimes try this out. What
you think today is normal. You just do the right practices,
and you will realize that the way how somebody has
lived his life was the unnormal way. Normal is something different.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
It's interesting you talk about the mind and that observation.
I remember that I was in Cambodia, maybe twenty five
years ago, right, and I was traveling, and I went
to a monastery and there was a female monk who
was there, who had been and they're meditating for a month.
(42:45):
And I asked her for a little bit of advice,
and she laughed, and then she said to me, the
first step is to be the watcher of your own mind.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yes, but now also for example, now you see these
are topics. It's really nice to talk all the time
about it. So if you imagine, it would be possible
to have just a round of lots of philosophers and
keep talking about the power of the mind and this
(43:16):
and that and how the philosophers in the past already
knew it. So it's easy to get lost in these topics.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Yes, it's the doing, the art of the doing, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
And that's now why we know it's possible.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
But now how to do it?
Speaker 2 (43:34):
And this is again where the martial arts, the schoolIn
kung Fu the shaolin chigo starts to enter because now
there's a practical way. Okay, if I want to now
gain this idea of the power of the mind, start
to observe the mind, how do I do it? And
one of these schoolIn methods is practicing of the martial arts,
(43:59):
practicing of the chiego, practicing of Chinese calligraphy, these different
type of things. Having the various types of tea ceremonies.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Yeah, these are all expressions where you were able to
have some some object, let's say, to place the mind.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
One and then from from this point start to work.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Mm hmm. They're there there. There are ideal examples of
mindfulness practice that to do them properly, you need to
be completely focused. Your attention needs to be on the
on the act, or the ceremony or the practice itself.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Right, Yes, exactly. For example, I'm sure that you also
had some tea ceremonies already in the past.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Maybe, yes, And those.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Tea masters sometimes say or they say, you can see
all answers of life within that tea ceremony. Yeah, And
for example, what do they mean with this at the end,
what you have, the expression that you have is the
(45:18):
taste of the tea on your tongue. And now we
just take this example and try to return back and
where is this taste coming from? And there it starts
somewhere there was a plant was growing. Somebody plucked that plant,
(45:39):
rolled it, or took the tea leaves, stored it somewhere
for sometimes thirty years. Afterwards, shipped it to Germany, or
shipped it to the UK, or shipped it to the USA.
Somebody bought the tea. Now has to cook the water
to the right temperature, put the water into the bowl
(46:02):
for the right amount of time, and afterwards you're able
to taste and drink that tea. If just one thing
along this line would change, the taste of the tea
that you were able to taste would change. And again,
(46:22):
what we have here is what you feel on the
tongue right now. It's like it's the consequence, it's the effect.
But this effect has a long history. And the question
is are you able to follow back and trace back
this history. And if you can trace it back on
(46:44):
the tee, and now you just put it back and
try to trace back yourself. Where do my habits come from,
Where do my ideas come from? Where do the paths
on my body that are hurting right now, where is
it coming from? Then you find a great path, a
(47:13):
great key already some answers that you might have towards
this life.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
So that that whole introspection. And it's interesting, you said.
As you started saying, I started smiling because I talk
a lot about gratitude, and I say to people, you know,
you can be grateful for a cup of coffee, and
and and maybe you're grateful that the barrista who made
the coffee put the attention in it. But then you
need to think about the farmer in Columbia who maybe
(47:41):
put his life savings into growing the coffee, and the
people who picked the coffee, then the trucks that took it,
and then the planes that that flew you. And actually, wow,
how do we get a plane? Somebody had to create
an engine, so they had to design the plan. You know,
(48:02):
all of those complex equations, all of this stuff that
goes into and you can really go very deeply down
a path if you become focused on mind, feeling curious
about it.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Right, yes, and along this way, just how you explain
also where does this coffee come from? What is happening?
Is you start to see the connection, the connection of
the presence of the present with the past, and also
(48:37):
the connection then between the present and the future. Yeah,
and also between yourself and the coffee, and then also
yourself and the farmer of the coffee. So the principle
that starts to happen along this way is connectivity. Happens
(49:02):
the farmer on the other side of the world does
have an influence on your life. Yeah, but this is
something you don't realize or maybe you don't want to
realize in today's world.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Mutely, we've got to wind up in a few minutes.
But I just wanted to get your thoughts on happiness.
And we said earlier there's many people in our societies
that chasing happiness. And what is your opinion on how
we can foster happiness or contentment or flourishing well being,
(49:36):
whatever you want to say, and what would be your
parting advice to the listeners.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Okay, happiness I think already has a very strong connotation
in nowadays world. That's why I don't want to use
the word happiness. Imbalance, not knowing whether life goes up
or life goes down, whether you succeed, or whether you fail,
(50:03):
whether you're going to stay alive or whether you die.
This is an issue all humans have that there is
this instability which is always fluctuating, seemingly between two extremes.
Let's say either you're successful or you're failing. When you're
(50:25):
moving towards success, you're in a specific state. When you're
moving towards failure, you are in another state. Neither of
those states is what I think will give you peace
of mind. So the aim or the advice for me
(50:50):
and for others would be try to find that state
of the mind that is free from fluctuation. M and
this state free from fluctuation, free from movement. Maybe you
(51:10):
can call it stillness, and that stillness, maybe you can
call it there is nothing, or you can call it actually,
there's everything already. I don't know if I would express
this state as happiness or as contentment, or just as peace.
(51:32):
It's peace. Walk through this life peacefully. You meet other people,
meet them with peace. You face different challenges, face that
challenge with peace. It doesn't matter what you are facing
in this world, it's always better to face it with peace.
(51:53):
Peace inside of yourself. This is what you can do.
You are sick, still you're in peace. You just won
the lottery. Still stay in peace, because if you win
the lottery and you are not staying in peace, then
most probably you are somewhere in the state of euphoria.
But in ephoria, you spend too much money, you're going
(52:15):
to waste.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
You come crashing down pretty quick. Right, No, that's great,
it's great advice. So so thank you, mister uh master
she hanged Ye. Sorry for my pronunciation of your name,
But this has been this has been awesome. It's been
a really interesting conversation into the mind and the practices
(52:40):
of a shoolin monk. And I think there is there
is something in this for for everybody, but for people
who who have enjoyed what you said and who want
to find out more. And I know you've got an
incredible wealth of stuff that's online. Where can people go
to find out more about your course? I know you
also run retreats, So when we eventually open up from COVID,
(53:05):
you know, how can I find more about you and
what you do?
Speaker 2 (53:11):
So the monastery where I'm located at is the Shouting
Temple Europe, and I think it's really really easy if
you just search for this monastery and on the other side,
if you just link my name Hilhani, you also find
access to all the different varieties that we are offering.
(53:32):
And on the one side, because of the restrictions, we
also started to offer free online trainings. So for everybody
who wants to have a peek in what type of
practices these are, feel free to join. And besides that,
all the information I think is available and you can
just link it somewhere at your podcast.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Yeah, I will put all the links in the podcast,
and I really encourage people. You do have an incredible
amount of of of free online resources, so so for that,
I thank you on behalf of all of the listeners
and anybody who has has gained benefit from from doing
and some of your practices.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
H
Hey, everybody, today we're going to do something different. We're
actually going to run a podcast back and it's an
old podcast, and it actually came to my mind because
I came across a clip on YouTube of Master She
Heng Yee, who I had interviewed oh a couple of
years ago now and he has turned into a sensation.
(00:33):
He has half a million YouTube followers now and around
a million Instagram followers. He is a thirty fifth generation
Shaolin Monk and since twenty ten he's been running the
Shaolin Temple in Europe. And in this podcast, which I
just listened to again the other day, and it's a cracker,
and we just talked about a whole heap of life
(00:54):
lessons from the Shaolin way. I think you'll really enjoy this,
even if you did hear it the first time, and
if you didn't get in petreat Master she Hang Yee.
Welcome to the Mind, Body Brain Project podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hello Paul Nice, and thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
You're most welcome, and it's a real honor to have
a Sharon Monk on the podcast, and not only a
Sharon Monk, but a thirty fifth generation Shaolin Monk. So
can you explain how that lineage system works of generations
of shaolin monks.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So if you look at the way how we are
talking to each other, let's say, or how students relate
to me and how I relate to my students, we
talk in terms of a family system. So stifu or
shiffho means you're the teacher or you're the father, and
(01:52):
we may be not related to my students in terms
of the same blood, sharing the same blood, but it's
about sharing the same heritage and sharing the same art
and culture. And this means every time when a student
who was staying a very very long time with his
shiffu also enters into the lineage and takes over the obligation,
(02:19):
for example, to teach and also have his own students afterwards,
this is the moment where you are actually entering into
this system, so you become the next generation, in the
moment where you have children, where.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
You have students, where you have students exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
So, and yeah, that's actually quite the system how it is.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
M's that's very interesting. So thirty five generations, that's gotta
be more probably five hundred years maybe something like that.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well, actually, the funny part is we are counting at
the moment, it's the thirty fifth generation in my case,
but we are already at the thirty sixth or thirty
seventh generation in some cases. But if you would actually
count back and go back in time, you would realize
that thirty six generations of thirty seven actually is not
(03:18):
even enough to return back to the source, which is
like one thousand, five hundred years ago where the monastery
was founded, okay. And the reason for that is that
the counting of the lineages started much much later, yes,
and it simply was introduced in order to get some
(03:41):
type of structure right into into the system.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Okay, So the first children didn't count, yes, but they
technically exactly yes. Yeah, yeah, Okay, that's great. So tell
me how do you how do you actually become a
shaolin master? And what is your training like, how long
does it take, what does the typical days training look like?
(04:08):
And just talk as to that process a bit. Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So in my case, I grew up in Germany, but
in a very very early age, with the age of four,
my father actually decided for me that I need to
join some just martial arts school.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So that means besides the fact of going to school.
The only thing that I spent my time in was
for very very long time and many years, just the practice.
And I was interested also in seeing all the movies,
and I had different idols m and I don't know
(04:53):
if it was a character trade that time, but I
saw something any type of movements that I like, and
so I spent all my training time and tried to
copy them until I was able to also do the
different types of moves or whatever it was. So the
initial beginning for me was mostly related really to the
(05:16):
physical practice and just copy the movements and become flexible
with the body, become strong with the body. And yes,
this type of training I had for many many years,
and just later on when I started to get a
little bit older, this was the time when I got
(05:38):
introduced also into the philosophy and into all the different
backgrounds that go along or go together with the Shaolin
martial arts. And this actually was the moment where I
met the first Shaolin monks that came from the song
Shan Shaolin Temple in China. Okay, So I started to
(06:00):
practice Shaolin kung fu with another master with an early
age already, but the first contact with the Shaolin monk.
That was when I was around like twelve years fourteen years.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Old, okay, And what martial arts did you do before that?
What was the first martial arts you did?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
It was called Shaolin Green Dragon kung fu, so it
was also a schoolIn style, but not the same direction
like I practiced it today.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
It has the same origins, but it is not the
traditional shaolin training that you have nowadays, and which is
the most famous.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
And so how long did you train under the Shaolin
kung fu under your master? How long did that process
go for?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So with my first teacher, I trained around eighteen years
and after the first eighteen years, in between I met
the Showlin monks, okay, and under their guidance, then I
also spent the other almost twenty years.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yes, oh wow.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
So I always stayed within the field of shaolin mainly,
but in between I had many excursions also watching into
other systems, because I just think it's important to not
be too fixed on one system. So you think that
(07:38):
yours is the best of anything. There is simply no
best system. It is just there are many systems which
have advantages and disadvantages, and I think it's just good
to observe and also.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Learn from others.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But Maine, my main road was always the showling.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Way, showing way. Okay, so they I actually did one
of your online You've got a lot of stuff that's
online that's really quite cool. And I did one of
your your chie gong and movements. I think it was
a twenty minute session. So can you talk a little
bit about chi gong and chi? Initially, so it's a
(08:19):
it's a hard concept for a lot of Westerners to
get their head around, but I know that chi is
very important in Chinese culture and Chinese medicine, and particularly
in Daoist medicine. Can you talk first of all about
what chi is and then what is chigung?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I think slowly it's getting even to me the understanding
why it's always set in the Chinese culture to not
try and define that word chi.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So, but anyway, I think the.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
This is the question you always get asked that says
that's the you shouldn't ask us.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
But I really think the advantage right now also in
our conversation and the possibilities that we have nowadays, is
that you have people that on the one side grow
up with a very very strong influence from Asian culture,
but at the same time also have a good understanding
(09:26):
how in the Western the mentality is yes, And let's
just assume that the chi is necessary for anything in
this world to manifest, to form. Everything that has a
(09:47):
form needs a certain amount of GI. Everything that is
functioning needs chi. Everything that is alive is the expression
of a type of GI. Sometimes we say when you
are very very vital, when your body, your expression, your
(10:08):
life is full of energy, is very vibrant. Then we
also say this person has a lot of cheap, but
also somebody who is like very weak physically weak mentally,
maybe very depressed and locked. Such a person, we say
(10:30):
not necessarily has less cheap, but it seems like it's
not vibrant, it's locked or it is locked. When we
talk about cheap, it expresses at something. It can express
at something very vibrant, something very alive. But at the
(10:51):
same time it can also express itself like not expressible.
It's too weak to express, it's.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Not coming out. Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Other traditions maybe say, yeah, this person has that special aura.
He enters the room and you can feel something about him.
How do we know or that there is something like
this cheek because it is expressing as something. For example,
this chigong practice, the twenty minutes that you were following,
(11:22):
what's the purpose of this This chiegong exercise has different
postures that you're taking in. Yeah, it has different postures
the bardawe gin in that case, this chigong routine has
eight different postures if you take it seriously, each of
(11:44):
these postures has a different way of how it is
expressing its power. The first exercise, for example, is called
lifting or supporting the sky or lifting up the sky.
Just imagine you put your hands up, but you do
(12:04):
not have the intention that you are lifting anything. So
that means your arms are up. But it's different if
your arms are up and you have the feeling or
you are creating inside yourself. Now there is something heavy
above you that you need to support, so your body
(12:25):
serves like a pillar. So when you know that your
body serves like a pillar and above you is something
very very heavy, then the alignment of your skeleton matters.
Yeah right, Yeah, the alignment or the muscles that you
are accessing matters. And if you have a good feeling
(12:50):
for your body. What martial artists normally do. Everybody who
practice martial art for a long time. Something that he
gets is a very good understanding and awareness normally for
their own body. So that means you have a good feeling.
How do I need to align my skeleton, which muscles
(13:12):
do I need to engage in order to not waste energy,
but at the same time to serve as a very
very strong pillar in case the sky would be really
heavy and pushing on top of you. So there is
a difference between just holding up the hands and having
(13:35):
the intention also on the mind to support the sky.
And in this case, in that exercise, I assume that
sky would be heavy. Yeah, so this is why I'm
going into the position align myself structurally and also intentionally
(13:58):
in order to create that one posture which would give
me the most feeling of having the power to support
this sky now. And so this is what the chigong
practice is teaching you, and what you are learning, you
are becoming more sensitive for what is happening within yourself
(14:23):
regardless of what you're doing. So chigong is not about fighting, Yeah,
it's about understanding your biological functions and mechanisms inside of
you while you are practicing anything.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And it's interesting you said that I used to do
tai chi when I was in Scotland, I had a
teacher of tai chi. I used to go to the
classes and it took a while to get the feeling
of the movements. But then when you started to feel
the movements, you could you could feel that they were
(15:02):
both both more and more intentional, more difficult, but also
more energizing as well. And I noticed at the end
of the class and when I started to get that
little bit of feeling that that I felt like I
had used up a lot more energy but also gained
a lot more energy and felt much more refreshed. And
(15:23):
so yes, it's it is really about that connection with
the energy and the energy slow.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Isn't it exactly? But also nowadays the chigung is an
aspect of the physical development. Put it simple. That's why
in the shouting temple there is no really that differentiation
between on the one side to practice chigong and on
the other side to practice come fu. Right, It's just
(15:52):
it's somehow just turned out to be separated like this
in nowadays world. So there are chigon classes and there
are kung fu classes. Yeah, but the thing is you
cannot practice kung fu without having internal energetic aspects. The
(16:13):
difference is only you don't know about them because you
don't pay attention to them. But it doesn't matter if
you are lifting something, if you are punching, if you're pulling,
if you're pushing, there is something energetically also happening inside
of you. The question is only are you able with
your full awareness to know what's going on inside of
(16:36):
their And in the moment you're able to tap deeper
inside and know what's going on, you can control yourself
better and ultimately also increase the effectiveness of whatever exercises
we are doing.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, and that's why when you say shallon masters, they
do what seems to us normal people to be incredible
fates because it is that deep connection with the movement.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yes, It's also the ability to be focused and concentrated.
If you know where your energy is going, you can
just direct it wherever you need it. And just as
simple examples, very famous are the breaking of the sticks
for example, in a way, what matters in the moment
(17:34):
of impact is the point of impact. So there is
just one place or one area where that stick or
that brick is going to get in contact with the body.
And it's important that at this place nothing harmful starts
(17:58):
to penetrate through the body. So you need a shield.
You need a shield exactly at this place, right, So,
and how do you create this shield with the power,
with the focus, and with the concentration that in the
moment of impact, all of your available energies that you
(18:19):
were able to control inside of yourself is directed towards
this point. This is one method for.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Example, Okay, And and that whole idea of being focused
and connected. It's not just in the physical movements within
the martial art and the Charlain traditions. It really spills
over into your life into mental states as well. So
(18:47):
I've heard you talk about the five mental states that
hold us back? And can can you talk a little
bit about that for the listeners? What are these five
mental states that hold us back? And what can we
do to fight them?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I really really like the similarly between the way how
a martial artist is training and the way how a
martial artist, if he's able to integrate his virtues into
the normal life, can benefit from this. What I mean
by that is there is no martial arts skill that
(19:25):
we are able to develop if you would not put
any type of effort into your training. In order to
get some martial arts skills, you need to suffer. You
need to go through some suffering. You need to sweat,
You need to push yourself. You need to know or
explore the limits of your own body and also the
(19:48):
limits of your own mind. Because many times we think
I cannot make any more push ups, but somebody is
going to be there to motivate you, and he's squeezing
out the last five push ups still out from you.
And this is the reason why next week we are
becoming better and are able to deliver more push ups
(20:12):
because we break that limitation we had on ourselves before.
So in order to become better, in order to bring
out more about ourself, there is something about breaking limits
and breaking above things that was holding us back before. Yeah,
(20:37):
and when we switch now from the martial arts into
let's say just our mental states, then it's just the
question what is it that nowadays is able to hold
me back? What is it that is limiting me in
(20:59):
the way? How I sink mm hmm. And this is
what the five mental states or the five hindrances that
I was talking before are about. There are five states
of the mind simplified. There are more, but the five
are very simplistically expressed in this way, which can make
(21:25):
it very hard for you to to see where you're standing.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
M Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
One of the states is, for example, when your complete
day is filled with with sensory desire. So that means
you're always looking for something that is giving you positive,
a positive feeling. You can always chase something with the
eyes because you like the beauty of the eyes. You
(21:54):
always like to eat something great, so you you are
following the taste with the smelling, the hearing with the feeling.
It's the same. So your mind all day long is
chasing over something over a desire, over a desire which
derives from your sensory gates. Yes, in the moment you
(22:17):
are running after these things, we say you're off track.
You're off track because you cannot concentrate anymore on the
essential part. You cannot remain calm. That is the problem, okay,
because you're running after something that gives you positive feeling
all the.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Time, and that feeling is an external feeling. It's an
external input, right, rather than internal.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yes, especially that it is triggered from external stimulis and
I really think if somebody wants to hear more about
those five hindrances, you will surely find them. But what
I really want to now put the emphasis on is
sometimes people misunderstand and think that monks or masters or
(23:05):
people that live inside a monastery don't have a happy life,
are not able to express themselves or are enjoying their lifetime.
I really think it's very, very, very hard to find
any person in this world who is so perfect to
not have any type of influence from those five hindrances.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Okay, so you say they're pretty universal.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
They are pretty universal. Everybody has them to a certain extent.
This all is not about right, and it's not about wrong.
It is just about everything that you do with your
mind in this world has a consequence. If you can
live with a consequence, then do it. If you like
(23:55):
to follow your eyes and your senses, if you like
to live a life full of external sense stimulus, then
do it. It's not a problem. But this way of
living a life has a consequence, and you, because you
live this life, you will need to bear with those consequences.
(24:20):
And we have eight billion people in this world. We
cannot all live the same life based on the same ideology.
The only thing that I'm always trying to encourage people
is to say, you want a result in the martial art,
there is the price you pay for it.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Absolutely, do the work.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Do the work. Yeah, you want to live this type
of life. It also means there's something you will sacrifice
for this. So and this is the way how we
see or I see the world. It's cause and consequence.
So that means what I what my input into life is.
(25:08):
I'm going to get a result from this. I wake
up with the with the mind based on ill will,
on bad thoughts all day long. I'm going to get
results from this. I wake up every day and my
mind is lazy. I don't want to move. My mind
doesn't want to move. I don't want to think about
(25:29):
something complicated. Also, you're going to get the consequence from this.
And this is what those five mental states are about.
They are just telling you be careful that there are
states of the mind. When you have them for a
too long time, they going to bring consequences that when
(25:54):
you think about these consequences, you will maybe understand for yourself. Okay,
on the long term, I don't want to live with
these consequences.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Okay, so it's about reaping what you saw. Yes, So,
charl and monks and look, martial artists in general are
very much on a path of self mastery. So so
what would be your advice to people who want to
get into that self mastery because we know from from
(26:26):
lots of different research actually that that people who pursue
self mastery and tend to to have a life of
more contentment. I'm not going to say happiness, because happiness
is this thing that you know, the Stoic philosophers, the
ancient Growths, Greeks and Roman philosophers said that that happiness
(26:47):
is full of gold, that the person who chases happiness
is a fool. I think more more contentment, satisfaction. What
the ancient Greeks called you de ammonia. I'm sure there's
a there's a similar word in Chinese. But what would
you think are some of the important steps on a
path to self mastering?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
A great part of this is in your hands. So already,
when you have the feeling that your emotional states, or
your quality of life, or your contentment or satisfaction about
life at the moment is too much outsourced or is
too much related to anything which is not in your hands.
(27:32):
That's the first step to just start and realize, to
return back and do not outsource this satisfaction, this happiness,
this contentment. Don't make the way how you feel too
much dependent on how these external stimulus are. And why
(27:58):
is that Because there is there are situations, and there
are persons, and there there are possibilities where you can
do something about changing them or changing the situation, but
very often and more likely you cannot, because how the
(28:24):
world is going right now, it's not just about you.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Hmm. Absolutely, you were not the.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Source why the world is the way how it is.
It's eight billion people have influence in how this world is. Yeah,
the natural constellation of the stars is the reason why
the world is the way how it is right now.
So it doesn't make sense to outsource this inner state
(28:53):
of satisfaction to something that anyway, on the large scale,
you cannot control. The first step is realize what is
in your hands and what is definitely not in your hands.
So that's step number one. Then step number two is
(29:18):
that very helpful inside and why I think for some
dedicated martial art practitioners it's more easy to get this point.
Is the part about the discipline. I mean, if we
talk about discipline, a monastery pretty much is an example
(29:42):
for this discipline. But you have to say that in
the very beginnings we talked about external discipline because inside
the monastery, when you're young, you don't want to wake
up at the hours you should wake up. It is,
you don't want to make all the time so much
(30:04):
training that you're supposed to do the training. So that
means there's always somebody who is taking care of that discipline,
that you keep the discipline, and that sometimes can also
mean it's the stick that keeps the discipline. Yes, so
this is what we call it's external discipline. But no
(30:26):
matter what, if you are inside of such an external
discipline for a long time, two years, three years, it
will slowly start that you do it by yourself.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
That's interesting, right, That is that they development because a
lot of people and they talk about how this person
is so disciplined, that that person is so disciplined. I
would love to be as disciplined, but they're not realizing
that that person was probably exposed to discipline. I mean,
I'm Mexic ex military, and there was a lot of
(31:02):
external discipline that went on. But there's a lot of
people who are military individuals or martial artists who learn
that discipline, as you said, being exposed to it and
being externally regulated. After a while, you develop your own
internal discipline. And that's I think something that a lot
(31:25):
of people don't realize is that discipline is something that
doesn't often come natural and that has to be learned
over a period of time. It has to be expressed
over a period of time in order to strengthen, and
we actually know there are certain regions of the brain
that if you are every time you're being disciplined, you're
(31:47):
actually strengthening those regions. So and hence to your point
of the monastery, it's external for a couple of years,
and then it becomes internalized. It's something that we can
all learn. I think it's something that a lot of
people don't talk about when they talk about behavior change.
They talk about all of these life hacks, but you
(32:08):
don't hear discipline mentioned a lot. And I think it's
pretty critical, right because you're exposed to the same temptations
as many of us, but it's the discipline that can
often be the discerning factor between which way your life
goes isn't it.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yes, exactly, And I mean there is a reason why
there is this saying you need to practice anything for
at least one hundred days.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Okay, So that's is that the shaolin thinking in terms
of having this is.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
One saying, right idea. It is just you need to
repeat something very very often. You need to program yourself.
Our body is running on the software and this software
is filled with some information and in order that this
software really starts to change, you need repetition.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
The repetition makes the system change, and say, makes you
reconnect whatever is able to reconnect. And this is exactly
how you said it before. That that's the reason why
we need repetition. And you sometimes need to be exposed
to some conditions in order that you develop the right mechanism.
(33:28):
And now together with that second step of cultivating your discipline.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
I love that expression, cultivating your discipline. It's a beautiful
expression actually, because that that's what it is. Really. It
sums it up, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yes, there are also people who have talent. Talent means
that your understanding of the subject in the beginning is
much quicker. You are able to apply what you what
you know much quicker. But ultimately, even if you are talented,
(34:01):
I don't think the talent shows it's only about talent,
but also the willingness on the other side to put
the work into it, to find this right combination. And
so that means there's something internal about this about this person,
something that he already carries inside of him. But now
(34:23):
you also need the external way. How is he expressing
this in this world. So the internal gift and the
external expression, those two together, this is what makes that
person stand out in the crowd nowadays and becomes something
and express something very very specialtely, this is the same
(34:47):
like chigong and kung fu. Something internal something external. You
need both and also right now, yes you need discipline,
but now you also need to express this discipline. So
you are using your will power, You are using the
(35:07):
steadiness and ability to focus in order to now also
take the same challenges as other people in this world
are taking. It's just that you face the challenge, but
you have discipline. That's why you don't give up even
(35:30):
if you fail in that challenge. This is the only difference. Yeah,
but we also it doesn't mean that in the monastery
or any martial artists or whatsoever, does not face challenges
just because he has discipline. No, he has many ups
and downs, he has many failures. But because of this discipline,
(35:54):
all these failures is not the end.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
I think it's an old Chinese saying, is that fall
down seven times, get up? Yet? Yes?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
So?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
And in the and in the shawling way that there
is a very strong connection between physical fitness and spiritual development.
Can you just talk about those links for a little bit.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
So the root of shoolin arts, I would say, is
derived from the insight into how the things are. Meaning
the martial arts is only one way how you were
able to put all the theory, all that knowledge, that
wisdom which comes from so called charm Buddhism or zen
(36:46):
Buddhism into ways of daily practice. It's really about this.
To control the body is good. Controlling the body is
already a good sign that there is something that you
have under control. But if you would be able to
control your mind as much as you are able to
(37:07):
control the body, then we are regarding this in our
tradition as the ultimate and the highest ability of yourself,
the highest skill in order to create and have influence
in your life quality. Because it's the mind. It is
(37:27):
your thoughts that can bring you from one second from
paradise into hell. Or for me personally, I have to speak.
This is what I'm looking for, the power of the mind.
This is what I think is sustainable when you are
(37:47):
still young. And maybe I can consider myself still young
with thirty eight. But one day the power of the
body is gonna vanish. That cannot change. It is just
gonna happen. But I don't think the power of the
mind can cease so easily. This is maybe personal belief,
but this is my interpretation and my ambition. Why I
(38:11):
we got this way of life, to combine spirituality on
the one side, the hard external martial art training on
the other side. Why I think it's very, very beneficial.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
In terms of the mind and thinking about the mind
and controlling the mind being key. You're not alone. And
Marcus Aurelius was a Roman emperor and Stoic philosopher. You
may have heard of him, but he said that we
have power over our mind, not outside events. Realize this
(38:47):
and you will find strength. Right. And Epictetus is another
Stoic philosopher, and he said, and you can make my
leg lam and you will imprison my leg, but you
will never be able to imprison my mind. And so
there's I think the Stoics are very aligned with that,
that that Challlin tradition around that it's really the key
(39:11):
is that part over the mind. It's just in Shallin.
And my understanding from this conversation is that that the
physical training and the martial arts is a way to
condition yourself to have power over your mind. Is is
that correct? It's like a kind of a gateway. Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I think if you would point it down at one
center skill mm hmm, then it's exacut it is. It's
all about increasing your awareness of your own mind also
the ability to adjust your own mind. And therefore we
(39:51):
need to use different methods because maybe when we talk
about it, or I talk about it, for me it
is normal that I say, I can see the thoughts
that are arising. But I don't think it's something normal.
(40:13):
I think sometimes it's just like I have the sort
and that's it. There's nothing I can do about it.
But it's not like this. And why we have so
called sitting practices meditative practices, because if you are sitting
physically for half an hour or one hour or even
(40:35):
for five minutes, you really try as good as you can.
Sit down and don't move. Don't move the body, not
even the eyebrow, nothing, just don't move. So what you
want is the body becomes still. When the body becomes
(40:58):
still and you are not itching somewhere or scratching somewhere,
then it means the more you practice, the more you
will realize if your mind actually is still or not.
Because all the time, right now, if right now in
our rooms the wind would be blowing, we can feel
the wind on the skin because we are distracted by
(41:21):
our sense sensation. So if we're able to for a
moment shut down the senses, then all your awareness, all
your consciousness, is able to be put upon your mind,
and then you can see if your mind is still
or not. Then it's really like entering into another world.
(41:43):
And the more you practice is the more then you
will really realize. I think my mind was still all
the time, but there is so much turbulence. And this
is the way why there is this sitting practice for
what this is one of the reasons, this is the
(42:04):
benefit why it's worse to sometimes try this out. What
you think today is normal. You just do the right practices,
and you will realize that the way how somebody has
lived his life was the unnormal way. Normal is something different.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
It's interesting you talk about the mind and that observation.
I remember that I was in Cambodia, maybe twenty five
years ago, right, and I was traveling, and I went
to a monastery and there was a female monk who
was there, who had been and they're meditating for a month.
(42:45):
And I asked her for a little bit of advice,
and she laughed, and then she said to me, the
first step is to be the watcher of your own mind.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yes, but now also for example, now you see these
are topics. It's really nice to talk all the time
about it. So if you imagine, it would be possible
to have just a round of lots of philosophers and
keep talking about the power of the mind and this
(43:16):
and that and how the philosophers in the past already
knew it. So it's easy to get lost in these topics.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Yes, it's the doing, the art of the doing, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
And that's now why we know it's possible.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
But now how to do it?
Speaker 2 (43:34):
And this is again where the martial arts, the schoolIn
kung Fu the shaolin chigo starts to enter because now
there's a practical way. Okay, if I want to now
gain this idea of the power of the mind, start
to observe the mind, how do I do it? And
one of these schoolIn methods is practicing of the martial arts,
(43:59):
practicing of the chiego, practicing of Chinese calligraphy, these different
type of things. Having the various types of tea ceremonies.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Yeah, these are all expressions where you were able to
have some some object, let's say, to place the mind.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
One and then from from this point start to work.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Mm hmm. They're there there. There are ideal examples of
mindfulness practice that to do them properly, you need to
be completely focused. Your attention needs to be on the
on the act, or the ceremony or the practice itself.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Right, Yes, exactly. For example, I'm sure that you also
had some tea ceremonies already in the past.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Maybe, yes, And those.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Tea masters sometimes say or they say, you can see
all answers of life within that tea ceremony. Yeah, And
for example, what do they mean with this at the end,
what you have, the expression that you have is the
(45:18):
taste of the tea on your tongue. And now we
just take this example and try to return back and
where is this taste coming from? And there it starts
somewhere there was a plant was growing. Somebody plucked that plant,
(45:39):
rolled it, or took the tea leaves, stored it somewhere
for sometimes thirty years. Afterwards, shipped it to Germany, or
shipped it to the UK, or shipped it to the USA.
Somebody bought the tea. Now has to cook the water
to the right temperature, put the water into the bowl
(46:02):
for the right amount of time, and afterwards you're able
to taste and drink that tea. If just one thing
along this line would change, the taste of the tea
that you were able to taste would change. And again,
(46:22):
what we have here is what you feel on the
tongue right now. It's like it's the consequence, it's the effect.
But this effect has a long history. And the question
is are you able to follow back and trace back
this history. And if you can trace it back on
(46:44):
the tee, and now you just put it back and
try to trace back yourself. Where do my habits come from,
Where do my ideas come from? Where do the paths
on my body that are hurting right now, where is
it coming from? Then you find a great path, a
(47:13):
great key already some answers that you might have towards
this life.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
So that that whole introspection. And it's interesting, you said.
As you started saying, I started smiling because I talk
a lot about gratitude, and I say to people, you know,
you can be grateful for a cup of coffee, and
and and maybe you're grateful that the barrista who made
the coffee put the attention in it. But then you
need to think about the farmer in Columbia who maybe
(47:41):
put his life savings into growing the coffee, and the
people who picked the coffee, then the trucks that took it,
and then the planes that that flew you. And actually, wow,
how do we get a plane? Somebody had to create
an engine, so they had to design the plan. You know,
(48:02):
all of those complex equations, all of this stuff that
goes into and you can really go very deeply down
a path if you become focused on mind, feeling curious
about it.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Right, yes, and along this way, just how you explain
also where does this coffee come from? What is happening?
Is you start to see the connection, the connection of
the presence of the present with the past, and also
(48:37):
the connection then between the present and the future. Yeah,
and also between yourself and the coffee, and then also
yourself and the farmer of the coffee. So the principle
that starts to happen along this way is connectivity. Happens
(49:02):
the farmer on the other side of the world does
have an influence on your life. Yeah, but this is
something you don't realize or maybe you don't want to
realize in today's world.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Mutely, we've got to wind up in a few minutes.
But I just wanted to get your thoughts on happiness.
And we said earlier there's many people in our societies
that chasing happiness. And what is your opinion on how
we can foster happiness or contentment or flourishing well being,
(49:36):
whatever you want to say, and what would be your
parting advice to the listeners.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Okay, happiness I think already has a very strong connotation
in nowadays world. That's why I don't want to use
the word happiness. Imbalance, not knowing whether life goes up
or life goes down, whether you succeed, or whether you fail,
(50:03):
whether you're going to stay alive or whether you die.
This is an issue all humans have that there is
this instability which is always fluctuating, seemingly between two extremes.
Let's say either you're successful or you're failing. When you're
(50:25):
moving towards success, you're in a specific state. When you're
moving towards failure, you are in another state. Neither of
those states is what I think will give you peace
of mind. So the aim or the advice for me
(50:50):
and for others would be try to find that state
of the mind that is free from fluctuation. M and
this state free from fluctuation, free from movement. Maybe you
(51:10):
can call it stillness, and that stillness, maybe you can
call it there is nothing, or you can call it actually,
there's everything already. I don't know if I would express
this state as happiness or as contentment, or just as peace.
(51:32):
It's peace. Walk through this life peacefully. You meet other people,
meet them with peace. You face different challenges, face that
challenge with peace. It doesn't matter what you are facing
in this world, it's always better to face it with peace.
(51:53):
Peace inside of yourself. This is what you can do.
You are sick, still you're in peace. You just won
the lottery. Still stay in peace, because if you win
the lottery and you are not staying in peace, then
most probably you are somewhere in the state of euphoria.
But in ephoria, you spend too much money, you're going
(52:15):
to waste.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
You come crashing down pretty quick. Right, No, that's great,
it's great advice. So so thank you, mister uh master
she hanged Ye. Sorry for my pronunciation of your name,
But this has been this has been awesome. It's been
a really interesting conversation into the mind and the practices
(52:40):
of a shoolin monk. And I think there is there
is something in this for for everybody, but for people
who who have enjoyed what you said and who want
to find out more. And I know you've got an
incredible wealth of stuff that's online. Where can people go
to find out more about your course? I know you
also run retreats, So when we eventually open up from COVID,
(53:05):
you know, how can I find more about you and
what you do?
Speaker 2 (53:11):
So the monastery where I'm located at is the Shouting
Temple Europe, and I think it's really really easy if
you just search for this monastery and on the other side,
if you just link my name Hilhani, you also find
access to all the different varieties that we are offering.
(53:32):
And on the one side, because of the restrictions, we
also started to offer free online trainings. So for everybody
who wants to have a peek in what type of
practices these are, feel free to join. And besides that,
all the information I think is available and you can
just link it somewhere at your podcast.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Yeah, I will put all the links in the podcast,
and I really encourage people. You do have an incredible
amount of of of free online resources, so so for that,
I thank you on behalf of all of the listeners
and anybody who has has gained benefit from from doing
and some of your practices.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
H
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