July 1, 2025 • 13 mins
The Truth About Protein: Do it need to be spread out evenly across meals?
Do you really need protein at every meal to build muscle? What about the source and timing of protein - does it matter if you're vegetarian or eating animal products? Get the real facts in this myth-busting episode.
We dive into the latest research on protein needs for muscle building, whether spreading protein evenly throughout the day is optimal, and if plant proteins can be as effective as animal proteins. The findings may surprise you - and change how you think about protein intake and timing.
[1:23] Background on protein needs for muscle building
[4:12] Study design and methods
[7:34] Key findings: protein timing and source doesn't matter
[10:15] How this changes protein recommendations
The bottom line? Tune in to get the full scoop!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Everyone, Welcome to another edition of Wisdom Wednesdays. Now, you
will have heard me talk ad nauseum about the importance
of adequate protein so that we can sustain our muscle
mass and our bone density as we get older.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And you've also heard me talk about.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
As you get older, our ability to turn over protein
what's called muscle protein synthesis, is actually degraded, which is
why as you get older you need more protein intake. Now,
there's lots of research and discussion in the research about
how much protein is actually required, and also the timing
(00:52):
of that protein. Does it need to be spread evenly
throughout the day or can there be big chunks of
it at certain times unless at other times.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
And then the other.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Question is about the source of the protein, whether it
is better getting your protein from animal sources, or if
you're vegetarian or vegan, does that protein that you're getting
from plant breas stuff is it enough to stimulate muscle
protein synthesis.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So, just for a.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Little bit of background before I talk about the study
that attempted to answer these questions. Basically, the capacity of
a protein source to stimulate muscle protein synthesis is generally
determined by its content of essential amino acids, all of
which are required to fuel this metabolic process, hence they're
(01:50):
called essential amino acids. And then the next thing is
about its digestibility, or how much of the amino acids
from the protein are made available to scaletal muscle when
they pass through your digestive system. Now, lots of research
has suggested that plant based protein sources are less anabolic
(02:13):
muscle building and than animal based protein sources because they
contain fewer essential amino acids and are often deficient in
at least one essential amino acid. And additionally, evidence from
several studies suggest that plant based proteins are also less digestible. Now,
(02:33):
in some of the studies that provide participants with protein,
whether that's animal based source or plant based sourced, what
they find is that the post prandial that's after you've
eaten and muscle protein synthesis rates were higher when the
animal based protein source was ingested. However, the dose of
(02:55):
protein in these studies was generally and less than the
third grams that were kind of thinking might be a
bit of a cut off for stimulating muscle protein synthesis,
and was derived from a single source, which is typically
not what we tend to do when we're eating, especially
(03:16):
eating meals. You don't just have your protein from one source,
particularly if you're vegetarian or vegan. Now, there is also
evidence from other studies that indicates that when the dose
of protein is at least thirty grams in one meal,
the muscle protein synthesis and then the activation of what's
called m tors signaling pathway that basically drives that anabolic process.
(03:42):
The suggestion is it doesn't differ between plant based and
animal pre sources if you're eating at least thirty grams
in one go. And also studies have shown that muscle
protein synthesis was found not to differ between plant based
and anoma based sources when the protein was derived from
multiple plant be its sources, which is important because as
(04:05):
I alluded to you earlier, and that is more representative
of how people eat in practice. So here was a
study that I found very interesting which looked at different
groups of people in a nine day randomized control trial,
all consisting of young adults that concerned either a vegan
(04:30):
or omnivorous diet with a balanced or an unbalanced protein
distribution throughout the day, right, And what that basically means
is that there was one group who had an omnivorous
diet including some animal stuff and some plant stuff. The
(04:50):
protein source from for these guys throughout the day seventy
percent from what it was from meat, and they at
five small meals a day to spread that protein out
throughout the day, and basically they had twenty percent of
the total daily protein in each meal. So these were
the guys that were in the omnivorous balanced group. Then
(05:14):
they had an omnivorous unbalanced group. So again seventy percent
of their protein source was for meat. They got the
same amount of total protein, but it was spread over
three meals a day, and instead of being thirty three
percent in each meal, they had ten percent of breakfast,
which is often really what happens. People need a very
low quality protein or low protein breakfast, and then thirty
(05:38):
percent from lunch and then sixty percent from dinner. And
that's what you see quite often is people what we
call they battload their protein, eat most of their protein
at dinner.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
So this was looking at kind of real world stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Then you had two vegan groups that were pretty much
the same as those two groups one hundred percent of
their protein source was from plants. The first group was
spread over five mills a day, twenty percent of the
protein in each meal, and then the second group, the
same as the other group in the omnivorous diet, was
three meals a day, ten percent of breakfast, thirty percent
(06:12):
at lunch, and sixty percent at dinner.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
And they also completed.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Three bouts of supervised resistance training during the study over
the nine days, and they measured their muscle protein synthesis
to see if they were any changes. Now, there were
forty participants in this study. The average age was twenty five,
their average BMI was twenty four, so they were healthy
(06:38):
young people, and the diets were designed to maintain their
body weight and contained one point one to one point
two grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So that's probably just enough.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Actually from the recommendations you've heard me talk about the
old nzero point eight grams is just not enough, but
certainly in young people that one point one to one
point two seems to be enough.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Now, I'm never start.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Their protein was from a mix of beef, chicken, dirry,
and pork, and they didn't actually mention the sources of
protein in a vegan.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Diet, which I'm really not sure why.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
And then, as I said, they followed them for a
total of.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Nine days and they analyzed.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Their muscle protein synthesis at rates between the different groups,
and what they find was that there was no difference
between any of the groups in their muscle protein synthesis.
And basically this is in agreement with some later research
(07:54):
that actually shows that it doesn't really matter whether you
spread that protein out evenly as long as you're consuming
adequate amounts of protein throughout the day. And this is
contrary to some of the early research that came out
that said, actually you need to make sure that in
(08:16):
every meal you're getting thirty grams of protein. And I've
actually talked about that before. So this is a little
bit surprising but encouraging because that's typically the way that
people eat, is they tend to backload their protein into
liater in the day. So this is actually supportive of
(08:38):
some of the newer evidence. As I said earlier on,
So the thinking for a while in the last few
years is that muscle protein synthesis is a saturable process,
in other words, ingesting a certain amount of protein maximizes
the muscle protein synthesis response, and that was about thirty
(08:59):
grams from the recent search, and ingesting a larger amount
of protein doesn't actually give you any further benefit, and
that's why people had said, if you're having more than
thirty grams, you're probably wasting some of your protein, so
you need to spread that evenly throughout the day. And
the evidence from this comes from studies where participants consume
(09:22):
protein and then they measure muscle protein census for a
few hours, and it was fine that zero point two
four to zero point four grams of protein per kilogram
of body weight on averages, which kind of equates to
around thirty grams when you average it. Rind that that
seemed to maximize the muscle protein response, and that, in
(09:43):
combination with the idea that activation of muscle protein synthesis
is relatively short lived, that led to the recommendation to
consume an amount of protein every four or five hours
when you're awake to maximize your muscle protein synthesis rates
throughout the day. However, more recent research is actually consistent
(10:06):
with this study, because, for example, there's a study by
Brad Schoenenberg who's he's probably the lead researcher in this
and what he does is he in this study, he
fed participants either twenty five grams or one hundred grams
of protein, and that's a lot undergraunds of proteins, a lot,
(10:29):
and he thought then measured their muscle protein synthesis rate
and he found that after four hours there was no difference,
and that's typically when the studies ended.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
But he then followed.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Up for a total of twelve hours post consumption and
found that the muscle protein synthesis rate was forty percent
higher in that twelve hours overall when people consumed one
hundred grams of protein. So that study, along with the
one that I just mentioned, this current one and probably
(11:05):
no tweaks the recommendations and certainly how I am thinking
about the protein and the protein spread and as well
as that has implications for intermittent fasting.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
So some of the.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I guess the anti intermitting fasting brigade and I certainly
had had some of this line of thinking was that basically,
if you're fast until midday, that you're probably going to
be cannibalizing your muscle. And look, this is true if
you haven't had enough protein at dinner. So what these
(11:47):
bits of research suggests collectively is that the typical eating
pattern that we've had of backloading our protein throughout to
the end of the day, as in having the most
a bit at dinner is actually not a bad idea
because with Brad Schoenenberg's research, it's going to sustain you
(12:09):
over that at least twelve hour period after you've eaten,
and you'll not be cannibalizing your muscle. So I think
the take comes from this study and the other ones
that I've mentioned as well, is it really if you're
just a normal human, not an elite athlete or not
a bodybuilder, who just wants to make sure that they
(12:32):
are are not cannibalizing their muscle, then what type of
protein you eat, whether it's vegetarian, vegan, or from animal products,
doesn't really matter that much, and how you spread it
doesn't matter that much as long as you are consuming
adequate stuff, adequate amounts of protein throughout the day. And
(12:55):
my reading of the research in order to be safe
is that if you are younger i below, about fifty
one point four to one point six grams of protein
per kilogram of body weight will be sufficient unless you're
doing a lot of endurance training, and then your needs
actually go up. They don't go up so much if
(13:16):
you're doing strength training, which is a bit counterintuitive, but
you just become more efficient. And then when you get
older post fifty, and I think definitely you need to
be upping that to around the two grams of protein
per kilogram per day. So there you have it, and
I guess the other takeout from this study is that
the research is always changing, so never say absolutely and
(13:39):
never say never you look like an absolute dickhead in
six months or a year from now. That's it for
this week, folks, catch you next time.
Everyone, Welcome to another edition of Wisdom Wednesdays. Now, you
will have heard me talk ad nauseum about the importance
of adequate protein so that we can sustain our muscle
mass and our bone density as we get older.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And you've also heard me talk about.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
As you get older, our ability to turn over protein
what's called muscle protein synthesis, is actually degraded, which is
why as you get older you need more protein intake. Now,
there's lots of research and discussion in the research about
how much protein is actually required, and also the timing
(00:52):
of that protein. Does it need to be spread evenly
throughout the day or can there be big chunks of
it at certain times unless at other times.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
And then the other.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Question is about the source of the protein, whether it
is better getting your protein from animal sources, or if
you're vegetarian or vegan, does that protein that you're getting
from plant breas stuff is it enough to stimulate muscle
protein synthesis.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So, just for a.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Little bit of background before I talk about the study
that attempted to answer these questions. Basically, the capacity of
a protein source to stimulate muscle protein synthesis is generally
determined by its content of essential amino acids, all of
which are required to fuel this metabolic process, hence they're
(01:50):
called essential amino acids. And then the next thing is
about its digestibility, or how much of the amino acids
from the protein are made available to scaletal muscle when
they pass through your digestive system. Now, lots of research
has suggested that plant based protein sources are less anabolic
(02:13):
muscle building and than animal based protein sources because they
contain fewer essential amino acids and are often deficient in
at least one essential amino acid. And additionally, evidence from
several studies suggest that plant based proteins are also less digestible. Now,
(02:33):
in some of the studies that provide participants with protein,
whether that's animal based source or plant based sourced, what
they find is that the post prandial that's after you've
eaten and muscle protein synthesis rates were higher when the
animal based protein source was ingested. However, the dose of
(02:55):
protein in these studies was generally and less than the
third grams that were kind of thinking might be a
bit of a cut off for stimulating muscle protein synthesis,
and was derived from a single source, which is typically
not what we tend to do when we're eating, especially
(03:16):
eating meals. You don't just have your protein from one source,
particularly if you're vegetarian or vegan. Now, there is also
evidence from other studies that indicates that when the dose
of protein is at least thirty grams in one meal,
the muscle protein synthesis and then the activation of what's
called m tors signaling pathway that basically drives that anabolic process.
(03:42):
The suggestion is it doesn't differ between plant based and
animal pre sources if you're eating at least thirty grams
in one go. And also studies have shown that muscle
protein synthesis was found not to differ between plant based
and anoma based sources when the protein was derived from
multiple plant be its sources, which is important because as
(04:05):
I alluded to you earlier, and that is more representative
of how people eat in practice. So here was a
study that I found very interesting which looked at different
groups of people in a nine day randomized control trial,
all consisting of young adults that concerned either a vegan
(04:30):
or omnivorous diet with a balanced or an unbalanced protein
distribution throughout the day, right, And what that basically means
is that there was one group who had an omnivorous
diet including some animal stuff and some plant stuff. The
(04:50):
protein source from for these guys throughout the day seventy
percent from what it was from meat, and they at
five small meals a day to spread that protein out
throughout the day, and basically they had twenty percent of
the total daily protein in each meal. So these were
the guys that were in the omnivorous balanced group. Then
(05:14):
they had an omnivorous unbalanced group. So again seventy percent
of their protein source was for meat. They got the
same amount of total protein, but it was spread over
three meals a day, and instead of being thirty three
percent in each meal, they had ten percent of breakfast,
which is often really what happens. People need a very
low quality protein or low protein breakfast, and then thirty
(05:38):
percent from lunch and then sixty percent from dinner. And
that's what you see quite often is people what we
call they battload their protein, eat most of their protein
at dinner.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
So this was looking at kind of real world stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Then you had two vegan groups that were pretty much
the same as those two groups one hundred percent of
their protein source was from plants. The first group was
spread over five mills a day, twenty percent of the
protein in each meal, and then the second group, the
same as the other group in the omnivorous diet, was
three meals a day, ten percent of breakfast, thirty percent
(06:12):
at lunch, and sixty percent at dinner.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
And they also completed.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Three bouts of supervised resistance training during the study over
the nine days, and they measured their muscle protein synthesis
to see if they were any changes. Now, there were
forty participants in this study. The average age was twenty five,
their average BMI was twenty four, so they were healthy
(06:38):
young people, and the diets were designed to maintain their
body weight and contained one point one to one point
two grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So that's probably just enough.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Actually from the recommendations you've heard me talk about the
old nzero point eight grams is just not enough, but
certainly in young people that one point one to one
point two seems to be enough.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Now, I'm never start.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Their protein was from a mix of beef, chicken, dirry,
and pork, and they didn't actually mention the sources of
protein in a vegan.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Diet, which I'm really not sure why.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
And then, as I said, they followed them for a
total of.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Nine days and they analyzed.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Their muscle protein synthesis at rates between the different groups,
and what they find was that there was no difference
between any of the groups in their muscle protein synthesis.
And basically this is in agreement with some later research
(07:54):
that actually shows that it doesn't really matter whether you
spread that protein out evenly as long as you're consuming
adequate amounts of protein throughout the day. And this is
contrary to some of the early research that came out
that said, actually you need to make sure that in
(08:16):
every meal you're getting thirty grams of protein. And I've
actually talked about that before. So this is a little
bit surprising but encouraging because that's typically the way that
people eat, is they tend to backload their protein into
liater in the day. So this is actually supportive of
(08:38):
some of the newer evidence. As I said earlier on,
So the thinking for a while in the last few
years is that muscle protein synthesis is a saturable process,
in other words, ingesting a certain amount of protein maximizes
the muscle protein synthesis response, and that was about thirty
(08:59):
grams from the recent search, and ingesting a larger amount
of protein doesn't actually give you any further benefit, and
that's why people had said, if you're having more than
thirty grams, you're probably wasting some of your protein, so
you need to spread that evenly throughout the day. And
the evidence from this comes from studies where participants consume
(09:22):
protein and then they measure muscle protein census for a
few hours, and it was fine that zero point two
four to zero point four grams of protein per kilogram
of body weight on averages, which kind of equates to
around thirty grams when you average it. Rind that that
seemed to maximize the muscle protein response, and that, in
(09:43):
combination with the idea that activation of muscle protein synthesis
is relatively short lived, that led to the recommendation to
consume an amount of protein every four or five hours
when you're awake to maximize your muscle protein synthesis rates
throughout the day. However, more recent research is actually consistent
(10:06):
with this study, because, for example, there's a study by
Brad Schoenenberg who's he's probably the lead researcher in this
and what he does is he in this study, he
fed participants either twenty five grams or one hundred grams
of protein, and that's a lot undergraunds of proteins, a lot,
(10:29):
and he thought then measured their muscle protein synthesis rate
and he found that after four hours there was no difference,
and that's typically when the studies ended.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
But he then followed.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Up for a total of twelve hours post consumption and
found that the muscle protein synthesis rate was forty percent
higher in that twelve hours overall when people consumed one
hundred grams of protein. So that study, along with the
one that I just mentioned, this current one and probably
(11:05):
no tweaks the recommendations and certainly how I am thinking
about the protein and the protein spread and as well
as that has implications for intermittent fasting.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
So some of the.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I guess the anti intermitting fasting brigade and I certainly
had had some of this line of thinking was that basically,
if you're fast until midday, that you're probably going to
be cannibalizing your muscle. And look, this is true if
you haven't had enough protein at dinner. So what these
(11:47):
bits of research suggests collectively is that the typical eating
pattern that we've had of backloading our protein throughout to
the end of the day, as in having the most
a bit at dinner is actually not a bad idea
because with Brad Schoenenberg's research, it's going to sustain you
(12:09):
over that at least twelve hour period after you've eaten,
and you'll not be cannibalizing your muscle. So I think
the take comes from this study and the other ones
that I've mentioned as well, is it really if you're
just a normal human, not an elite athlete or not
a bodybuilder, who just wants to make sure that they
(12:32):
are are not cannibalizing their muscle, then what type of
protein you eat, whether it's vegetarian, vegan, or from animal products,
doesn't really matter that much, and how you spread it
doesn't matter that much as long as you are consuming
adequate stuff, adequate amounts of protein throughout the day. And
(12:55):
my reading of the research in order to be safe
is that if you are younger i below, about fifty
one point four to one point six grams of protein
per kilogram of body weight will be sufficient unless you're
doing a lot of endurance training, and then your needs
actually go up. They don't go up so much if
(13:16):
you're doing strength training, which is a bit counterintuitive, but
you just become more efficient. And then when you get
older post fifty, and I think definitely you need to
be upping that to around the two grams of protein
per kilogram per day. So there you have it, and
I guess the other takeout from this study is that
the research is always changing, so never say absolutely and
(13:39):
never say never you look like an absolute dickhead in
six months or a year from now. That's it for
this week, folks, catch you next time.
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