193. I'm Fat, Bisexual, and Disabled

During this week's episode, my guest shares details from her memoir, Fat Off, Fat On: A Big B**ch Manifesto. We spoke about her childhood, her family contributions to her self esteem, finally feeling at home in her body, and much more.
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome. You are now listening to the Professional Girl Professional

(00:37):
It's your Girl Ebena from the Professional Homegirl podcast, the
only place where you would hear interviews from women of
color anonymously on stories that were enlightened and expand on
taboo topics. Now, if you hear someone that sounds familiar,
mind the business that pays you child. Please support the
show by leaving a five star review by some merch
or simply share these stories with your Professional home Girl.

(01:00):
You never know these storylines can be someone else's lifeline. Now,
please keep in mind that all of my guests are anonymous.
So let's begin this week's episode. So I am super
excited to have my guests on the show today. She
is committed to telling inclusive stories via unique viewpoints. My guests.

(01:21):
Is fascinated with using storytelling and cultural criticism not as
a way to overcome or transcend transcend her unique identities
as a fat, bisexual, and disabled African American woman, but
as a way to explore them, celebrate them, affirm them,
and most importantly, normalize them, and make the world a
safe enough place for people who share them to exist.

(01:42):
We are going to speak this into existence that her
book fat On fat Off, a big bitch Menathisto dropping
Mark seven would be on the New York Times. That's
their list. So to my guests, how are you doing?
I am good, Thank you for having me. I'm just
be to be here. Honestly, Yes, I'm super excited. And

(02:03):
her book is so good. I was so blessed and
thankful to get an advanced copy and it is so amazing. UM,
I just want to say that I absolutely love your
book for many reasons, and I experienced so many emotions
as I as I felt I saw myself in your
story so many times. So what has this experience been
like for you while writing your memoir? UM? Writing has

(02:24):
been very interesting because UM, I think long time followers
are aware that, like my UM living slash housing situation
has been like just non existent, nonstable through the entire
writing process, so from beginning to end even to me
signing the book contract. So it's been interesting. Yeah. So

(02:46):
it's been interesting trying to UM kind of gather these
stories back together, UM, because everything is like a different
essay that I try to weave together into one pice
of story, right, So trying to remember all these stories
UM through you know, the instability, but also through like
the backdrop of like the pandemic. Right. I feel like
people don't talk about that enough because you know, collectively

(03:11):
we're trying not to I guess feed the beast that
is COVID, I guess. But for me, I feel like
it's important to talk about, um, how that hath helped
but also hindered the process. Right. So Yeah, it's been illuminating.
And I was lucky for like the first year or
so like to have like a therapist and a psychiatrist

(03:35):
on the side. So it's one of those things where
like even when the process got really hard, I was
able to pause and be like, Okay, I'm gonna go
talk to my therapist or psychiatrist and like unpack whether
it's just kind of dealing with the stress of balancing
housing and writing, or like the um getting possibly you know,

(03:56):
retriggered by you know, remember I had to like think
about in detail in order to get in yeah down
on paper. So um, very tough process, not gonna sugarcode Dad,
but ultimately very rewarding to to kind of see how
I came together. No, I'm telling you, her book was
so good, Like, um, I mean Gabrielle Union loved the book, Like,

(04:19):
how does that feel? Like? What was? What's that? We
have been? The reception that you've been receiving from everyone? Okay,
so um, obviously getting Gabrielle's co sign was UM awesome
because I remember um reading her book We're Gonna Need
More Wine. Her book was really good. Yes, it's really good.
It's really good. So it's nice to have a co

(04:40):
sign from another great author. You know, I love you know,
I feel like people to be dishonest about how good
it is to hear like good things about your work
from like peers or people that you respect, Like I'm
never not gonna I'm never gonna pretend like that doesn't
feel good, doesn't gas little bit? Yeah? I like that?

(05:03):
Um yeah, I like I like that, like people just like,
you know, well, I don't need them if you can't pretend,
I don't go pretend. I like that keeps me going right. Um.
And then other like other reception um has been like um,
either long time followers or like me shouls like pigging
me like hey, you know, um, I work for this

(05:25):
library or this book store, and I happened to get
ahold of an advanced copy, and I just have to
tell you how much this part of your book like
really touched me or this part um you know, lots
of like laughing but also crying to UM. And you know,
I like hearing stuff like that because you know, life
is really tough and there will be extremely hilarious moments

(05:45):
in your life and sometimes not very hilarious moments. So
it's nice hearing UM people who read it hold those
moments like together because it is like one story. UM.
So yeah, I just I just really love hearing from
my careers, especially UM because I was definitely anxious about

(06:05):
sharing some of the things that I do in the
book because they're just very deeply personal. UM. And even
though I've shared a lot in my public pieces with
some of these outlets, UM, definitely had to push myself
to share even more than I might usually do in
my waking life. So it was like nice hearing that.

(06:28):
You know, people UM picked up on how personal these
things were. UM, but how um just how much you
know they're they're supposed to like talk to you, you know,
supposed to be kind of like this UM back and

(06:50):
forth with the book essentially. Yeah, because when I was reading,
I was like, what, Like, it's definitely and I'm one
thing I like about your book is I feel like
a lot of the people can relate to it. Like
I think that one part that hit hard for me
was obviously when you were speaking about your family, which
we all talk about a few but like, I don't
have a relationship with my little sister, so we are

(07:13):
in the process of going to therapy and I'm just like, whoo, child,
this is gonna be Yeah. So I definitely appreciate you
for just being vulnerable and just sharing your stories because
I always say, you never know how your your storyline
could be someone else's lifeline. M hm. So that's true.

(07:34):
So let's start from the beginning. Tell us about your childhood. Um. Yeah,
so I obviously still people want people to read the
books on the say too much. Um, just if I
were to do like in summation, Um, you know, Um,
I honor my background and that you know, my parents

(07:56):
you know, are not German immigrants, you know, they came
here to do the whole a dream thing, right, Um,
you know, because there was also dealing with like instability
back you know in Nigeria, which is as an own
like a whole different piece that I can't really get
into because I'm American born and kind of ignorant unfortunately.
But um, yeah, so they came here trying to do

(08:18):
the right thing. But you know, as people read, you
know my um father was not very good person, right,
so it complicated the whole process for everybody, um, and
took that out on everybody in the house. Um. So
it's one of those things where like, um, what could

(08:38):
have been while a very turbulent process for them could
have been a rewarding process that ended up not being
so um and you know we suffered for it in
the house. Um And UM, it was just it was
just interesting because it did not have to be that way,
and it was that way. So then you know, when

(08:59):
you're in situations as a child where you know you
have an emotionally immature parents who's just taking out they're
displaced anger on. You can be there just warranting because
you know you're the kid supposed to be able to
be the kid, right, Um, but you're dealing with an
immature adult where like those roles are switched essentially, but
because of the obvious power difference, Um, you're dealing with

(09:22):
this central like very abusive child's in an adult you know,
an adults body, um, which you know describes actually more
people than right. Yeah, I think a lot of people
got a lot of fun up families, unfortunately, including exactly
right right. So, UM, you know I had to deal

(09:44):
with that because also some of the emotional maturity that
would leap out of this person was very hyper specific. Um.
So as people are gonna read, you know, there was
a lot of let's you know was before bia directed
by sister. In my case, it was you know, fat phobia,
being dark skinned, etcetera, etcetera. Um. It was different from

(10:07):
my brother, different from my other brother. So just kind
of dealing with that and dealing with the fact that
you know, as siblings, wenna have different experiences with this
and remember different things. UM. So not to cut you off.
Does that bother you? Because that's something that me and
my sisters to go through. We had two different experience
in the same household, and that ship drives me crazy.

(10:30):
Does that bother you when it happens with you and
your siblings or doesn't it does? Um? And it's it's
like it does because like sometimes when you talk about
this stuff and they shared that different experience. You'll feel
kind of gas lit, like I'm not gonna lie. Like
I'll be like like, so you're just as saying this
like you wasn't there, like he was right there. You

(10:51):
don't remember right life for real? And it's one of
those things were like honestly it varies her child or simbling,
because you know, at the end day, some people are
going to um decide to retain things like I guess
in their medium memory and then decide that some of
the things they don't want to retain m are not

(11:11):
as important. And I'm like, well, you know that's your
I guess, your prerogative, but um, you know, I don't
think ignoring some of this stuff makes it go away. UM,
just let's it fester. And I think something that I
really appreciate about millennials in particular, but also very early

(11:33):
gen Z is that, like we've seen the futility especially
with our UM gen X boomer parents. Right, I have
boom parents. I'm not gonna lie, they're they're older, right,
UM Boomer agenda experience, like seeing the futility of like
trying to cover that stuff up um and and recognizing
when it just festers because people are dancing around the issue. UM.

(11:56):
So yeah, it was very interesting being in that house um,
and even more interesting when I left the house because
one of those things we're like, Okay, Um, nobody outside
this house is responsible for what I happened to be unfortunately, right,
So I can't just go out and project it onto
others like my parents did with me. Um. I have

(12:18):
to figure out how to sort that, um and do
the best with the little that I was given, right. UM.
I think that's the other thing that UM really bothers
people like us who have emotionally immature parents, is like
you do, Yeah, I'm mopefully unprepared for the world after
having deals still so yeah, So it's it's like that,

(12:43):
and there's some resentment obviously with that. But UM, it's
one of those things where you really have to pull through,
um because you know, you can't change what happened, right, Um,
but you can determine what you're life looks like after
that for the most part. We're not talking about like

(13:04):
some outside factors. But um. Yeah, And so I'm from
so I'm erased me from New York, but I was
raised in Tennessee. I went to school at Tennessee State
university and why did this Nick pick Tennessee for y'all
live it. Yeah, that's why I put it in because
I'm like, I know people like what, but like, no,

(13:27):
for him, it was you know, he's a very i
would say, miserly, um, very cheap person. So it's one
of those things when he looked at locations in terms
of moving, um, and where to be advantageous for him
financially to raise a bunch of kids, because I'm I
have got account sorry, so like five or six siblings, right, so, um,

(13:51):
one of them did not live with us, like I
mentioned in the book, because I'm thankful for that. Thankful.
I'm like, yes, you don't have to be here to
experience this, y'alls. Right, Um, at least one of us
can get away, right, somebody I don't have to go
through all this exactly. So um, you know there we
were a big family too. So it's one of those

(14:11):
things where like do we does he stay in New
York and try to raise us through that, or like
do we want to go out west? Um? So for him,
it was determined by cost in um also schooling and
how much that was gonna cost to for him personally
because he was a medical professional, so thinking about all that,
he was like, yeah, I'm just gonna stay here. Um.

(14:33):
So then you know, then we you know, we settled
in Tennessee and um, that was an interesting experience, you
know being Nigerian too, um, because you know, we are
like a mentionable. We're everywhere, even places people don't expect
this to be. So it's always interesting, like finding other
Nigerians are Africans from that region because we're like, let's talk, right.

(14:56):
It's interesting, you know being in the appalation South in particular,
right because people when people here South is usually like
you know, we're thinking Georgia. Flash. I went to alabamaa
is syby. I'm like, no, you know, testing is there.
But it's interesting because you know it's almost like almost
Midwest or Middle America depending on where you ex just

(15:18):
in that state. So yeah, and you know, when I
was reading your book on that in that particular chapter,
you know, something did transpire between your father and your
sister and why do you think your mom chose to
stay instead of just leaving? Like have you ever have
you ever had that conversation? Yeah, so we actually had

(15:41):
like a semblance of that conversation once I had arrived
in California, And like the latter half of that book,
I didn't really go into detail because it was it was,
it was a lot. It was a bit as a
very uh intense conversation. So one of those things you like,
I didn't necessarily want to included because I want to
keep a little bit close to my chest. Um. But

(16:04):
for her and her upbringing and unfortunately that age group
of um, black women slash African women, you know, partnership
was stressed. Um. You know, partnership was stressed. You know,
if you didn't have a partner, then somehow you were defective, right. Um.
So for her, you know, unfortunately, um, when it came

(16:27):
now to you know, losing that partnership or you know,
sacrificing her kid on the altar of partnership, she chose partnership. Um.
And yeah, so I remember having that conversation with her
because I was just like, you know, the world doesn't
end if you have to be by yourself, period, right, Um.

(16:49):
But it also doesn't end if you decide to end
the toxic partnership. Like you know, I feel like they're
your child. Yeah, you know, I just feel like there
are people who would just deal with a lot in
order to not be alone. And you know, my mother
was one of those people. UM, And for me, it

(17:09):
took me a while to like accept that um because
you know, as much as she was also a victim, UM,
she was also participant. So you know, yeah, it was
it was very difficult to come to terms with that,
like even as I wrote the book too, because you know,
once you kind of step out of the situation and

(17:29):
and start to write and observe what you saw, You're like, Okay,
there's a whole picture, and it's not really a pretty picture,
but that's you know, that's the picture none blessing. So
you know, it definitely taught me important things about UM,
not centering partnership in my life, but particularly not centering
um like man um or just you know, abusive people too, um,

(17:53):
no matter what the family connection is. So yeah, it's
a tough lesson. But but you know, that kind of
figure of that because being that she is Nigerian and
I'm just like, I can just only imagine how many
children have to suffer because of that idea or ideology
of how they feel like they have to stay with
their family because you know, women back in the day

(18:13):
are different than us. Yeah yeah, and you know, less
options too, especially economically. That's why I struggle, Like I
understand people, you know, um choices, right, I do think
it's import to exercise your choice, especially as a woman. Right.
But I always get so nervous, um when I see
a woman giving up economic power, um, because I'm just like,

(18:37):
it's just because like when she gets touched and gold,
like sometimes that's all you have to fall back on.
So I always get nervous about that, Like I'm I'm
gonna trust you because you're adult or whatever. But it
always just just gives me a lot of anxiety because
a lot of the reasons why my mom made those
really unfortunately disturbing decisions too, um was like lack of

(18:57):
economic power. Um, she didn't and go really start like
working working until like I was basically entering like teenhood
you know. Um. So that also kind of contributed to it.
Um being willing to like look the other way because
you know your money is tied up in you know

(19:18):
this person, right, So what is your relationship like with
your family? Now, I don't talk to any new I'm
not gonna life. I don't need the end of your
now child. Okay, I did not talk to any of them,
you know, and I did really try to retain some relationship,

(19:40):
Like obviously that was not gonna happened. My father, Um,
absolutely not. UM. I tried with my mom, but like
like I mentioned, she just was determined to not let
this person go. But and then from my sister, Um,
as far as I heard, you know, the last time
I heard yes, um, because yeah, because I last spoke

(20:02):
to them, it was like two thousand and it's really
two thousand eighteen. And then there's like a brief second
in because as you know, as you probably were two,
you know, people saw the pandemic as very much a
way to re enter people's lives, like oh my god,
everybody sticking dying, you know, yeah, you know, so there

(20:26):
was definitely a brief moment where like she was trying
to use her way back in and I was like no, um.
From my sister, you know, as people reading the book,
there was also attempts at reconciliation, but like she was not,
like there was still some toxicity that she just did
not want to like go of. And I'm just like,

(20:46):
you can't be bringing that into this new relationship you
have with me, so like, that's not you know. So
I was just like, you know, and then from my brother.
You know, this is why I say that, you know,
the whole not all men thing, just like it is
not you know, y'all got to really think about that

(21:08):
because you know, I was close to my brother and
well I wasn't because I found out he did some
things that I did not jell with. UM. So I
was like, yeah, I can't be working with you, like
like fundamentally, we're just not we're not doing it. Um.
And it's one of those things, like it was also
hard to let go this person because this person was
mostly truthful about what he had also observed in that household.

(21:32):
So it um, it did hurt to let this person go,
But was one of those things were like you know, um,
because of what I observed in that house, Um, you
just have to choose to be better. And you know,
a lot of my relationships with these people got cut
off because they just the choice to not be better

(21:54):
was what they went with. And I'm like, yeah, no,
because if I stay here, I keep working with you,
you just you just going to drag me down. Um.
And I personally don't believe in the whole feeding people
the long spoon thing because people forget that this person
can you know, they can grab the spoon, right, you
don't take you back right? So um, so yeah, that's

(22:17):
that's my thing. I don't really talk to any of them.
Well listen, kudos to you, sis, because I don't talk
to my family. I do. I would like to have
a relationship with my little sister, um, because it does
really bother me that we're not as close as I
would like us to be or I mean, we just
don't talk at all. But I will say that I
know it's not easy navigating this world by yourself. I'm

(22:38):
just reading your story and I can only imagine the
stories that you did not tell. Yeah. Yeah, so kudos
to you. I'm just so proud of you. I feel
like I'm looking at myself because I know this ship
is not easy. No, it's not. Yeah. And then you know,
socidal messaging is always interesting too, about especially from the holidays,
which is why, which is why I open will I

(22:59):
will what I said because I was just like, you know,
you tell people you talk to your family, They're just like,
why they can't, Yeah, imagine it and I'm like, you know, y'all, like, yeah,
you're born with them, but like there's no law, rigging
stone somewhere that you have to keep working with these people.
You know, Um, you didn't really have the choice to
be born with them, you know. Um, now depend on

(23:23):
what you believe that might be. You know, you might
argue that, but um, for the most part, I'm like,
you know, you don't you know, you're just here. You're
born here. Um. Whether you retain relationships with these people
is entirely up to you. Um, But just no, like
you know, it can be different, You can choose differently.

(23:44):
I know it's scary, um, especially when you don't have
any examples of it, but yeah, I just you know,
I feel like familiar obligations should be questioned more, um,
especially if you know that you know they are, um,
impeding your growth as a person. I feel like people
should like be more critical about the connections that they

(24:07):
choose to retain. Listen, I know they're gonna be tight
when you hit that New York Times. That's so is
They're gonna be tight. Yeah, oh my god. And also,
your family contribute to how you felt about yourself. In
what ways did your family affect your self esteem. I

(24:29):
mean that's a great question. So, um, you know it
all all the problems. You know that the standard human
being has always starts with childhood, right because that's the foundation.
It's the foundation everything. Um, it's good and bad. Right.
So you know, like I mentioned, definitely gave me a
complex about being a darker skin, definitely gave me complex

(24:50):
about being fat. So it's one of those things. Were like, um,
those two things, you know, as things that were wrong
with me, right quotations. Um, we're always kind of like
in the both in the background and foreground of my mind. UM.
So because of those things, I definitely tried to do

(25:10):
other things or play of other things too. Um offset
that in a way. So it's like I mentioned the
book where like then the focus became on you know,
the focus veered off to my grades, um or whatever
talents I decided to um improve upon or you know,

(25:31):
practice on. UM. So yeah, definitely from very early age,
impacted UM how I felt about myself. UM and how
I felt about how I was perceived too, because you know,
you can't really control for the most part, people's perceptions
of you. That's their perception, right, UM. So they also

(25:51):
taught me um and obviously really funded the way that
you know, Um, at some point, you have to just
not give a fuck, like you just can't, Like you
can't face your opinion about yourself, specially your appearance, like
physical appearance, Like you cannot allow yourself to have that

(26:14):
dictated by other people, because you also can't please other
people too, like everybody, So trying, yeah, trying to do
that is not only futile, but like detrimental to you, um,
because then you're just at the mercy of other people's whims.
That's the thing they taught me um by you know,
attempting to tear me down. So yeah, I when I

(26:38):
was reading your book, you mentioned um and moments of
intimacy with your lovers, and you were just saying how
you felt like you didn't deserve love or even touch.
And I'm like, damn, like that's so funked up because
how many of us can relate to that because of
some ship our family told us And we can't even
see our full selves because we can't see past the trauma.
Mm hmm. I was like yeah, yeah, like it bleeds

(27:02):
into everything, um, And I feel like if people were
more honest about that. We could have you know, healthier
conversations that go past you know, two hundred dollar dates
or who's saving who in a fire? Life better conversation
if we really talking about that, you know, um, you know,

(27:24):
for better for worse. You know, Um, how our parents
raised us, but particularly how they spoke to us has
a huge impact on you know, who we date, how
we date, um, how we you know, like allow these
people to treat us or what we you know, decided

(27:44):
to look away from. Um. So yeah, like yeah, Freud,
you can't keep get away with it? Why every day?
I'm sorry, No, I just he can't keep getting away
with you. Just what I'm saying, Like he just every

(28:06):
day he's proven right some body? Yeah, but right? Why
do you think that society has these expectations when it
comes to wait and do you think they would ever
go away? Because I dont feel like how they did
Lizzo was disgusting. It is very disgusting. Um. I actually

(28:27):
saw a post the day where people were like, uh,
you know, she's so pretty because she's serving face or whatever,
and I'm like, even that is still do you know,
like okay, because you know, you you know, as a
fat person. You hear that a lot, like, even if
it's not being said to you, like, you may observe
that when people discuss other fat people like oh, you know,
the fat but like their face like oh my god.

(28:49):
And I'm like, or even being a dark skinned girl,
you're pretty for a dark skinned girl, yeah, you know.
And I'm like, you may want to run that back.
I don't like that, right. But you know, in so
far as like waight, um, uh, fat phobias origins obviously, um,

(29:10):
shout out to Sabrina Strings, Um you forgetting the name
of her book. Oh my gosh, she's gonna be my
ask at one point. Yeah, never her book, Um, I
don't have to look it up again. But you know,
Sabrina Strings in her book goes into like the origins
of fat phobia and how you know they're racist, right? Um?

(29:31):
You know Europeans um came up with these categories to
separate themselves from us, you know. So then they're like, okay, well,
fatness used to represent being you know, opulent, invention and
you know and wealthy, right, Um, we don't want to
be associated with Africans, So now we're gonna change what

(29:53):
fatness is associated with and make it associated with being
you know, dim witted or being you know, um greedy,
or being um you know just unintelligent or what like
whatever have you? Right, Like you like separating that and
associating that with Africans, with black people whatever. Right. So

(30:13):
I think that's part of it, because you know, anti
blackness and racism are like they're deeply in trenches this country. Right,
So it makes sense that fact Bobi it would also
be deeply entrenched in this country. Um. But also, like
I mentioned the book in particular, a lot of it
also has to do with um controlling women, right, Um

(30:34):
you know, so how do I explain this? So that
Wobi is interesting in terms of when gender comes into
play because there's this aspect of like control that happens
with gender. Right. So if you're a woman and you know,

(30:55):
gets impressed upon you to be thinner, um, that being
impressed upon you is just a form of control, like
because if you're smaller, your tiier, um, it's easier to
kind of control you and occasionally harm you, right, especially physically. Um.
So I thought about that a lot growing up, and

(31:18):
in terms of um the ways in which violence in particular,
I was doled out like my observations of that and
how um, sometimes they correlated with weight, you know, whether
you know you're heavier or you're thin it right, So UM,
I feel like in terms of will they go away
in society mm hmm, I don't know. It's one of

(31:40):
those things where waxes and Wayne's right. So, like when
a lot of us were at home and like gaining weight,
there started to be conversations about, um, the role of
alphobia in terms of like work, labor, rest right, um.
And you know I had conference honest conversations with people
where we talked about how like okay, if this is

(32:03):
your weight, right while you are arrest, right, while you're happy,
or while you are less stressed than you would usually be.
Now you have to start asking self questions like, okay,
so this is the way I was always supposed to
be when you know, I am unstressed or unburdened right
by some of the things I usually burdened with. Um.

(32:24):
So people had to ask themselves for those types of questions, right.
But before we really got to the kind of the
heart of the matter. Um, you have these diet companies, right,
these exercise companies be like, oh, let's help you lose
that COVID fifteen, Like, let's help you get this extra
way off that you're pulling on while you're inside the house.

(32:44):
So then it got turned into the thing again where
it's like a stigma like, oh, if you get away
while you were trying not to die, you know, a
killer illness, there's something wrong with you. Like it's a
moral failing, right, soose moral failing too. So um, it's
one of those things that like, I don't know if

(33:06):
it will truly ever go away, because that'd be like asking, like, oh,
racism ever go away? You know, because there it's a
stomach thing. Um. But I feel like if we keep
having these kind of on his conversations about it, um,
then maybe we could affect I guess the larger collective

(33:26):
understanding about how fat phobia affects us and how it
affects not just like you know, because people always focus
on desirability and dating or whatever. No, but I'm like
actual societal you know, implications, including things like employment, um,
things like even travel. You know, for example, I hate
flying on Delta because those see bills are smallest fuck

(33:49):
and I hate having to extend, you know, ask for
an extender because I feel like enough for me to
I don't think people should have to pay extra like
make this seat pable. Yeah, so it's it's things like that,
where like it's it's bigger implications than just like UM
desirability and and you know, UM dating and etcetera, etcetera.

(34:12):
So yeah, I don't think it'll ever truly go away,
but I feel like if we're more mindful about how
it affects kind of greater society than maybe we can
do something about it, you know, and something that's tangible.
But do you think social media plays apart in fact phobia?
I absolutely absolutely. Um. I feel like another part of

(34:35):
it is um what I personally called TikTok the devil
app but obviously don't have no room to talk because
I'll be on Twitter, you know, and Twitter is his
own devil app. Right, but UM, you better enjoy. We're
about to go bye bye child, right. UM. I just
feel like people's UM affinity currently for like just being

(34:59):
calv Hilaire about recording each other. Um. It's something I
really don't like, UM because it invites a lot of
scrutiny on people's appearances and particularly articular UM you know,
when we were kind of like in and really heavily

(35:22):
focused on trying to alright, okay COVID before people decided
to start ignoring You're right. Um. You know there I
talked about how like people starting to focus on UM
in particular like video and how they go about getting

(35:44):
video and content. I thought that was going to eventually
backfire in terms of like a post pandemic world in
that UM people will feel more comfortable commenting on people
and their bodies, especially after not having been outside in
so long, if that makes sense, like you just eager,

(36:06):
you know, to get back out in the world. Um.
And honestly, I feel like, again we don't talk about
this enough, a lot of people's social skills erodent just
when they work inside. Yeah, you know, and I feel
like I don't know me, but I feel like, yes,

(36:27):
thank you. I feel like, um, I noticed the shift happened. Um.
I want to thing one because it was the way
that people were, you know, you know, a little bit mean,
a little bit snappier way interacting with you know, the
next you know, human being. UM. So I feel like

(36:51):
it after having gone through that and then coming back outside,
people are kind of just way too comfortable commenting on
people's bodies. UM. So yeah, I just feel like that
has definitely contributed to it. Um yeah, I don't know
how we fixed that personally, UM obviously and feeling like

(37:14):
you shouldn't just be going around recording anybody, but you know,
this kind of focus on making everything content, um, you
know incentifizes people to do that. So I definitely think
social media contributed. Yeah, and I think because of social media.
I think, well, I think because of COVID, because COVID

(37:37):
definitely shifted things like things have not saying I don't care,
how are we trying to go back to being how
it used to be? But things are normal right in quotations,
So I definitely agree with you on that. Um. I
was reading an article on how on how somebody positivity
phrases reinforced able is M and I was like, Okay,

(37:59):
that doesn't exense because one of the phrases that was
mentioned was we celebrate all body types. But then when
you look at these ads and look at all these
promotions and stuff, not all body types and being shown.
So do you feel like body positivity excludes disabled people? UM?
I would say, so, I feel like, you know, Um,

(38:20):
obviously people smarter than me, can um go into the
detail about how the body positivity movement was like hijacked
from um, black women and non white women, right, so
by yes, right, by being hijacked, you know, people try

(38:40):
to push this certain image of the ideal body like
it technically wasn't terrible, like as terrible as what a
lot of was witnessed with heroin chic right in the nineties.
That's bad. It was bad. It's terrible nineties until early
two thousands. I'm just like, I don't even know how
y'all got away with like saying, it's all of this stuff,

(39:02):
but it's terrible. So we get to body positivity, and
while you know, some of the bodies that are being
displayed or praised or whatever are larger, there's still even
exceptions to that. You know, you want you want the
coke bottle, you want to pair, you don't want to
be apple shipped. You know, they started focusing on different
shapes of what that fat should look like. Like if

(39:24):
you got the big gass and the big tips, we
may we may look away from you know, your big gut, right,
even though often those accompany each other. I don't know
who told people that kind of thing that's not a
package deal. Um. But yeah, it became this thing where
it's just like you know, certain acceptable larger bodies are okay, um,

(39:45):
and yes it did leave disabled people out, um because
there was not for me personally, I didn't see as
much as a focus um um on people like so um,
maybe occasionally they throw in the disabled person who's in

(40:05):
a wheelchair because people can't expand their minds outside of
like physical disability, right, Um, so you know occasionally they
would throw in like a token disabled person who was
in the wheelchair, but that would really be it. And
I'm like, okay, what about you know, amputees, you know, um,
what about other people who you know, maybe I need

(40:27):
like a walking aid or something? What about stuff like that?
So I don't know, it's just, um, I feel like
they're definitely there were omissions, um with certain body types
if you didn't feel like I said that acceptable larger
type right and even even your stuff was performative, Yes, yes,

(40:48):
I agree, I agree. Um, you know a lot of
it was just like kind of through um a lot
of like what do what do we usually call a
lot of like um, okay, just just a lot of
like like word phrase, like a lot a lot a
lot of like I'm gonna talk this thing up, but

(41:10):
not actually like apply it, like apply this this lesson
or apply um the values of what I'm speaking on.
So yeah, um, I don't know. And then and then
the other thing that was, like I feel like hurt
full was the whole positivity aspect of it, you know,

(41:33):
because I feel like when you are trying to stress
the positivity of something, you don't leave room to maybe
um discuss you know, how you maybe feel negatively about
your body or how you know you don't feel happy
about seven right um? And how you know sometimes your
feelings about your body you're gonna be up or down,

(41:54):
are gonna vary, you know, there's gonna be variations, right Um.
So I feel like it definitely did not allow enough
space to discuss um what like media representation um does
to how we feel about our bodies? Um, like really
feel about our bodies the good and then the bad

(42:16):
and ugly? Um. So yeah, I feel like you're Yeah,
I feel like you're definitely on the money about like
a mission of certain bodies, because don't nobody loved their body? Seven? Yeah,
Like it's not that's not honest. Yeah, you know, it's
all the way. But I'm like, um, but you know this,
I feel like that's part of the human experience. UM.
And I feel like we should be able to acknowledge that,

(42:38):
UM while also acknowledging that, you know, if you consistently
feel negatively about your body, then there's obviously something bigger
at work. Yeah, but I feel like we don't get
there when we we discussed body positivity. So now you
are really good at sports, especially soccer, but you had

(42:59):
to stop playing and due to your tour and a
c L. And when I was reading that part, I
was like, girl, why you just didn't listen to your
gut though, I was, you know, I just want to leave,
you know, dorm And like I said, I was hyper
focused on fitness and you know, and eventually been me
in the you know, it's a lesson, all right, you know.
So I felt like that was the start of when

(43:21):
everything started to shift for you, and this is when
life really started to life about that time, Yeah, I
just UM, in particular, I was really how do I say?
My parents had an interesting relationship with money and housing,

(43:44):
especially being immigrants, right, UM, and I was sheltered from
some of that because they were like UM initially like
firmly middle class, and then as like right before I
went to college, they like touched like upper class money,
not too much but just enough, right, So I feel
like I was kind of halfway sheltered about UM the

(44:06):
importance of housing and stable housing. So once I got
to UM Chicago and I was like dealing with trying
to maintain housing while also dealing with my injury, UM,
it was a very humbling experience. So then, like I
mentioned the book, I really UM had like a come

(44:26):
to Jesus moment about like able ism and disability and
how it plays into those things UM. And you know
how I was going to have to definitely um learn
more about those things to move forward in a way
that was like productive for me. UM. So yeah, I

(44:47):
definitely rocked the foundation of UM my beliefs, belief system
and any preconceived notion I had about like disability and
able is um UM and how you know, also how
it interacts with particularly fastphobia, because one of those things,
you know, once I was injured, I can't go to
the gym seven, I can't step back on you know,

(45:10):
the soccer field until I'm healed right, So naturally I
had to sit. I had the rest. I gave weight.
You know, that's what happens. So it's one of those
things where like, um, I really had to think hard
about like the kind of damage of my obsession with
my weight was doing to myself and my body, my

(45:32):
psych as my body was trying to heal. So I
really had to like I really had to tell myself
to like relax, like you know, physically your body is
not okay right now, so you can't be focused. I'm
like trying to lose weight, like doesn't make sense. I
didn't even stand up right now, like what. So you know, Um,
the injury definitely like forced me um to de prioritize

(45:57):
losing weight, um, which was in amportant part of also
like just informing my politics when it comes to like haaphobia.
So and listen, thank god for your friends, man. Yeah
your friends held you damn okay Yeah they did. Yeah. UM,

(46:21):
very thankful to them, um, because, like you know, I
mentioned earlier, I don't talk to my family. I didn't.
They just were not in the picture really after that,
so you know, I had to I had to rely
on my community. Um, and they stepped up in a
big way. So UM, that's why I also made sure

(46:41):
at the end of like, let me make sure I
acknowledge these people so they're no like, hey, like you
did that, you didn't do that. You part of this journet.
You know this, This book doesn't happen without you. So
and how I also felt like during this time you
were also exploring your sexuality and it I also feel
like you either write a romance book because the way

(47:06):
driving these moments with these people, I said, come on, girl,
that's what I'm talking about. I was toldly, oh my god,
this is good. It was getting steaming. So which one
of your lovers was was most difficult to write about?
And why? Um, that's a good question. You got me

(47:26):
girl home I'm singing because they're right. There were so
many good things about them, so many heartbreaking things about them. UM.
I feel like in terms of like, if we're talking
about sexuality and you know, how how do be it?

(47:47):
Do be? A said is especially you know when you're
a black person, Um, when you are you know, a
black woman. UM, I would definitely say it technically Bruce, Um,
you know he's also white. So there was the whole thing.
You know, it's like I don't really swirl like that.
I know people some people into that. I don't really
swel like that. So it was also very disoriented to

(48:08):
be like, oh, I'm very attracted to this person. I'm like, yikes,
what he was? He was fine, I'm sorry. So it
was kind of tough in that way because he had
his own like sad back story, UM, and I wanted
to honor that, but not you know, be too much
of his business, like just a little bit like I'll
tell you a little bit, but not too much, because
he had to be on his own journey right um.

(48:30):
And then with um emilia know, that was tough too
because one of those things were like if we had
more time, um, if we didn't have their own responsibilities. Yes, yes, yes,
I know people all the time are like, oh, you know,
like everything happy is at the right time, you know that,

(48:51):
And I'm like, no, less of my life personally is
that sometimes the time it will just be off that
and except the lesson at that point any time, and
then hope that maybe you know, we can circle back
and do it again or maybe do it differently. Right. Um.
So that was sad in the fact that, like, no
matter what we did, like you mentioned, the timing, just

(49:13):
it just was not time for that, Like it was
just not going to work. So um, having to let
go was just like like no, because that was good,
that story was yeah, yeah, yeah, I just it's just
the sadness in just knowing that, like if the timing
have lined up perfectly, then we'd be telling a different story. Right,

(49:39):
That's what made that hard because I was really reflecting
like damn, like this, I'm just really into this person
and we couldn't couldn't make it work. But you know,
so yeah, So though those two were definitely difficult for
like different reasons to discuss us, right, I'm just curious.
Did you ever hear back from the physical therapist. No.

(50:00):
I was so upset about that because like he really
had me, Like I was waiting on that phone, like
I said in the book, I really was just waiting, like,
so he's gonna call us, I'm just going to post
it the right at home, And then he didn't. I
was like damn, right he was, you know, like, what
was the what was the point, nigger? Like, if you're
not gonna call I don't know that's why. Um I

(50:22):
had that point and like tending the book where I'm
just like, so it's just like a routine does like well,
I just sucked him, Like does he like do this
to like inspire you, you know, to finish the physical therapy?
And then he like leaves like a right right right?
I decay, Like I don't know what he's like whole like,
I don't I don't know if that was an animal
or whatever, but definitely he definitely got me good and

(50:46):
I was fine beautiful. Well, I feel like everybody he
was dealing with was fine. The way he was describing them.
I'm like, ship, Yeah, it was just weird because like
you know, like you mentioned, the injury happened and you know,
life started really laughing. Well that was also when you know,
beautiful people started finding me. So I'm just like, this
is just a really odd point in my life right

(51:07):
now because I'm not at a hundred physically or mentally,
but the universe is like, I don't care, You're so
hop people. So I'm like, yeah, okay, so I gotta
figure out how to get it together real quick and
address this. But I'm like, damn, I thought it was
hard dayes niggas. But when you when you shared the
story about how he was dating that um lebonese woman
and she was treating you as a standing for a man,

(51:29):
I was like, what, yeah, yeah, like, um just dating
as a dark skinned woman. It's just very it doesn't
matter if it's you know, like a man a woman
on buying a person like it just it's really complex, um.
And you know, some of the stories that you're not

(51:52):
just mine are always heartbreaking because you're just like trying
to make it work and whatever bias this person has
is just getting in the way. So, like you mentioned,
like she really was just like I am, like I
am her man and that's how she viewed me and
there was no growing past that. And obviously that was
not a productive relationship for me, so I had to
you know, leave it. But you know, because like I mentioned,

(52:14):
I wasn't very familiar with um, I guess queer dating quotations, right,
but also like dating non men, I didn't. I just
I didn't know that that wasn't okay, that was also
yeah so right, So it was definitely she would learn
curve for me. But you know, I'm glad I did
learn so I could be like, oh, that's not acceptable. Um.

(52:36):
And that's also another way that colorism could come in,
you know. So right, well, that's why I don't feel
a way like I want. I would love for my
my sisters, my dark, scared sisters, to be with a
beautiful black man, But when I see them happy with another,
I'm like, girl, I'm not even mad because I know
how hard it is like to really be lovefully. Yeah,

(53:00):
it's difficult, you know. And you know, and then, um,
you know, because people, what's the house the saying go
all the men are black and all the women are white. Um,
I don't remember who said it. Don't attack me, I forgot,
but um, just think about that and how we are
constantly erased too, um and greater society, right, and how

(53:23):
that bleeds into dating is very, um, very complex, very
complex because sometimes you just want to date and not
be bothered with those things. But you know, because again,
because the people's biases and how that can bleed into
the relationship, you have to address it. So it's exhausting
in that way too. UM, Like I don't always want
to bust out and talk about the dangerous of colorism,

(53:47):
and you know, faphobia or whatever, Like I don't want
to constantly feel like you know I'm talking about like
I don't know, like a social experiencement or whatever, Like
I don't want to constantly be in that space. But
you know, um, often, you know, these things play out
in these interpersonal relationships and you know it's detrimental if
you decided to ignore them. So right, and also on

(54:09):
this subject, have you seen any pretty dicks lately? Because
he was acting like you've never seen a pretty dick before? Child,
you know that Christian will bring in like it'll funk
you up, you know. So I had to do a
lot of light and learning, um and not being like
scared of certain body parts, you know, independencies and stuff.

(54:29):
So as of late, not really. I think right before,
right before like the pandemic sued, I did see one
that was nice, Um, I'm not gonna lie to you.
Definitely a little aggressive looking because it was it was
larger than I was, but I was like, um what um,

(54:50):
but you know it was it was nice and pretty um.
But since then not really the focus has been mostly
on the book because you know, um, once I'm locked
in on Jason's bag, I'm not gonna lie to you.
I'm just like very much laser focused and I'm like,
I'll get around to daily later one several bags, are
you know quiet? Yeah? No, that's where I'm at. I've

(55:13):
been celibrant. It'll be three years this year. Really, Yes,
I'm feeding to see a pretty big child. Yeah, yeah,
I am. I think to two and a half and
then yeah. But I'm pretty sure you can agree with this.
I feel like because I've been celebrant, I feel like
the universe or just God just been rewarding me with

(55:36):
so many things that I've been praying on. I feel
like everything's just been like coming from left and right
and I'm like, thank you. Yeah, I agree with you. Um,
I mean depending on what people believe. And I guess
there's spirtuality for me, um in this like this part
of my life. UM, I've just noticed that like direct

(56:00):
personally for me, directing what would would usually be sexual
energy right towards like some things like my book or
things like the essays that right, or even um planning
I don't know, I don't know my latest social strategy
or whatever right in terms of social media. UM, I
just found that like redirection, that energies are helpful in

(56:23):
terms of kind of um keeping me going and like
vitality too. UM. You know because like personally for me,
dealing with other people's very sousting depending on the capacity
that I'm dealing with them. So when you know, I
have extended period time where I'm not dealing with anybody
you know, physically or sexually, I just find that sometimes

(56:43):
I just have a little bit more ex strategy. Um.
But that's just me. So UM. I found that like
like you just said, um me redirecting that energy definitely,
UM made it so that I was able to kind
of attract more opportunities um that I had been you know,
chasing for a little bit. Right. And you also spoke

(57:03):
about how Christianity has stolen a lot of time from
you in what ways and you feel like you're religion
affected you, Um, definitely body wise. You know. Obviously my
parents gave me that complex to begin with, like you
know that lives with them. Um. But going into like
you know, church space, Um, those politics then gets like

(57:26):
wrapped up and you know what it means to be
like a good person too, So it's one of those
things like now we're going from um, you know, being
demonized just be a physical appearance to being now like
that turning into like a question about like your morality too,
so that can funk with you like, oh, because I'm

(57:48):
fat and I looked this way and close, I'm like
going to hill, you know, like stuff like that. Like
it just it becomes this thing where you spiral quickly
because of what is you know, being talked to you
in terms of like how your physical appearance plays into um,
whether you go to heaven or hell or not. Um.
And then also thinking about um fat full be in particular,

(58:11):
and like associations with like the sin of gluttony or
sloth right. Um, yeah, it just it just does something
to you mentally. Um. It's not a good space to
you know, foster any positive feelings about your body, especially
if you are a black woman, especially if you are
a fat black woman. Right um. You know, um, those

(58:34):
purity culture politics that that especially again you know early
two thousand's um, because it created a very um advocacy
your relationship not just with people's bodies, um, but also
how they viewed sex. So now you can't even have
you know, healthy view on sex or have sex that
you enjoy because once again you're stuck here about how

(58:57):
sinful your body is, you know, so yeah, you know, definitely, definitely,
definitely affected me greatly, which is why I like in
the latter half of the book, I spent a lot
of time trying to, um, you know, create a safe
sexual experience that will hopefully help me deal with some
of the programming that I dealt with it as a

(59:18):
young Right. I feel like, um, I feel like religion
in the number I'm Black women man. Yes, yes, it
still is, but yes, yeah, for sure, that's a fact. Um.
One of my favorite parts of the book was the end,
and you dedicated a certain sections to Bill Hooks, And
in that chapter you said, for twenty seven years, I've

(59:41):
been on a journey home, and you were speaking about
the journey home to yourself, and y'all, I really felt
that ship because I feel like, now, at this big
age that I met, I feel like I'm finally at
home with myself. Yes, tell us about that. Um yeah.
I when I wrote that that ending, um, I just

(01:00:02):
really wanted to discuss how being disconnected for from my
body so long really made my life hard. Um Like,
obviously there are certain things in society that I can't
control that will make my life difficult unfortunately, but having
like like having hatred of my body to be part

(01:00:24):
of that was really just hindering my progress. And I
really had to come to terms with that, like how
I was being my own worst enemy, like on top
of what I was already dealing with. So yeah, I
was just like, yeah, I know it took me. We
was three decades, but you know, I finally learned that,
you know, my body is not the enemy. I'm not

(01:00:44):
the enemy, um, And that you know, despite my life
being difficult because these outside factors, um, I can choose
to not make my body into yet another thing that
I have to overcome. Right, So yeah, it's important for
me to talk about that in a way. That was
like a full circle moment too, because like it's again, know,

(01:01:05):
something I dealt with as a small child, and getting
to the point in my adulthood where you know that
isn't as much of a problem was like very significant.
So I definitely wanted to like talk about that, especially
like other people relate to right and last, but not
at least, what is your advice? But those who are
treated definitely due to how they look, Um, what my

(01:01:28):
advice would be is that, um, they should remember that
a lot of stuff that is said about their appearance
UM is going to be either biased or is going
going to be a projection. UM. In these last couple
of years of my life, especially like doing work like
writing publicly I should say UM and kind of observing

(01:01:51):
different reactions to my work what I say, well it's
good or bad, UM, have really taught me that, you know,
at least fifty of what it said to you. You know,
people can debate that percentage, right, but at least fift
of what it's said to you UM is a projection.
You know, people feel certain ways about theirselves UM, and

(01:02:13):
if they find that you feel maybe slightly more positive
about yourself than they do about theirselves, then they're like, Okay,
I need to bring this person out to my level
or you know, you know they think they're all that
in the back of ships, so they're not. I'm gonna
tell them they're not. So you know they can feel
the same way UM. So you know, just thinking about

(01:02:33):
that has really helped me not take things as personally
or not internalized and just kind of look at them like, hey,
like I am sorry that you feel that way, but
I don't feel that way. So I'm not gonna let
you make me feel that way. Um. So kind of
that would be my advice for them, just like like
really listen two what is being said and here what

(01:02:56):
is not being said, which is like you feel that
way about me, but I don't have to feel that
way about me. Um. So yeah. I feel like when
people like really think about that, then they'll be like, Okay,
so I am not as much of the problem as
this person is trying to make me feel like you know,
clearly there's something going on with them. Um and then

(01:03:18):
only and it doesn't have to then become my issue. Um.
So yeah, that's what I would say. Um yeah. And
when we think are you proud of yourself? I am?
I am. Um. I've changed a lot in like the
last three to four years, especially when it comes to,
for example, my temper um. You know, getting that like

(01:03:42):
bipolar diagnosis later in life. What's a slight bummer in
the fact that, like there was so much time lost
not having known that that was the thing that was
going on in the background. Um. But once I got
treated for I got meds for it. Um, then my
whole outlook changed, and then my relationship to my emotions
in particular also changed. So UM, I feel very great

(01:04:07):
about where I am now mentally with that because you know,
now it's not one of those things where like, um,
I don't want, I don't want to say I was
a loose cannon, but it's one of those things that
because of like the terrible things that were happening to me, obviously, UM,
you know, I just did not possess as much emotional
regulation as I probably should have. So um, getting treatment

(01:04:28):
for that was really like clutch. So now I just
feel like I have a healthier not just a healthier
um relationship with my body, but also my mind and
my micial state and things like that. So I do
you know, I am proud of that. You know, there
have been things that have happened to me recently, like
maybe major major occurrences, are even minor nuisances that like

(01:04:50):
in the past, I would have really reacted to badly,
like I would have had a whole like meltdown about.
But UM, these days I'm like, Okay, I could act
and ask with this person, or I can take a
deep breath to take a walk, or like I said,
I can realize that this is not really about me.

(01:05:12):
And can choose to like not participate. So um, I
feel you know, I do feel very proud of myself. Um,
it's been a very long and wild I know what
should be happening to me. I'm like, all right now,
come on, God, we've been doing here, come on, come on,
cousin right, like, because you set me to stay calm,

(01:05:35):
and I don't want to stay you know, sometimes I
want to ask too. But yeah, yeah, part of growing
is understanding that, like, you know, there's a there's a
time place for everything. That's example, I don't care what
people say. I think I personally supported it the will
slap because sometimes you show people that like you need

(01:05:58):
to like you need to really mind your business. You know,
it was it was so long. I was like that
really happened? Like why? But you know, sometimes you know,
people good enough of being um talked about or being
talked down to or being disparaged um, and you know,

(01:06:19):
sometimes you don't want to take the higher road. UM.
So I definitely I definitely understood that. Um. But but yeah,
you know, there's a ton of place for everything, and
learning that for me was very important when it comes
to like my mental health. So I'm very proud of that,
very proud of that. Like I'm sure that mine, you know,
more mentally ill version of myself is definitely proud of

(01:06:42):
where I ended at, right, right, So I'm super proud
of you. I thought your book was just amazing. I
ain't gonna definitely do my part so we can get
this book on the New York Times bestseller list and
definitely gonna reach out to you. Hopefully you'll be celebrating drinking. Yes,
I am definitely waiting for launch day because I will

(01:07:04):
be um for people listening. I'll be at the Reparations
Club in Los Angeles for the launch um. And I'm yeah,
I'm really excited because like it's really all coming down
to that day. Um. And it's gonna be very exciting
to have like a wide release because I'm already like
enjoying like kind of the slow trickle in of like

(01:07:25):
people charming in about their advanced reader copies. So it's
gonna be very interesting for people to like see like
the final final product, you know, after all of the
you know, the edits and the proofs and the correction
ends that you know, so they're very excited. And when
you come to New York let me know so we
can celebrate. Yes, I will keep you posted because I

(01:07:47):
will definitely be up there. Um. I actually was speaking
to my sister and I'm like, my goal for this
book is to hit every state and she was like
every state and I'm like, every state. It's gonna take
me a second, but you know there, um, thank you.
There's so many areas that are usually knowred, like you
know the South right, um, the bid West. You know,

(01:08:10):
people call those places flyover states like people don't live there,
and I'm like that's rude, you know, So I want
to do my part to look like, um see you
know people all over who maybe you know, may touch me,
maybe touched by the book. So um, then after that,
I will will discuss maybe an international tour, but that's
a little far off. Need I need some capital over

(01:08:32):
that one. Let's say you never know that. I think
that you're gonna definitely be successful with this book tour,
and you never know how big it's gonna be. You
might be in London, child, you might go back home
to Nigeria, right, you know, I'm I'm I'm definitely welcoming it,
you know, I wherever you know, wherever people read the book.
I'm trying to be there, you know, so we can
discuss well to the audience. If you have any questions

(01:08:56):
coming to a concerns, please make sure to email me
a hello at the PFG podcast dot com. To my guest,
thank you so much. I really appreciate our conversation. And
until next time. Everyone later you're not gonna say bye.
Oh I was bad to come in, but yeah, no,
thank you for having me on. Um. It was wonderful

(01:09:17):
speaking with you, you guys very you know, thoughtful questions
and I always love that, you know, because people sometimes
we'll get stuck on like the romance parts and you
know those are fun, but you know there's there's so
much more um to those experiences. So I really really
enjoyed your questions. UM, and thank you for inviting me
on there. M thankful to your audience. Will be listening UM.

(01:09:38):
And yeah, I'm just really excited to welcome you know,
y'all into my life. Right So, no, thank you, was
the question is given? Kaisha wasn't given open. I feel
like a good healthy mix because I feel like, you know,
I don't know, I don't know. I haven't seen Caresia's
birth shard because I mean, I'd be very curious about
stuff like that. But I think that um, first, she

(01:10:00):
does um a good job um with kind of getting
certain details out of people, yeah, that they might not
discuss otherwise. I take in away that is actually pretty savvy,
you know people, people, people gloss over it because of
how she speaks, like her cadence. I'm like, I feel like,
so there's something very like relatable yes and also precise

(01:10:25):
about how she yes, she asked these questions, you know. So,
but I am excited to see more women like her
that's not like that doesn't speak the correct way because
they're a lot like Kaisha. Right, we're doing the air quotations.
That's like Kaisha opposed to somebody that's like on NBC

(01:10:45):
News or some ship. So I think that we need
to take up all spaces we can and be our
full selves in every space that we do decide to
be in. Yeah, I agree. So, but oh that no,
y'all for all this time, Bye bye eight